Ruricius bishop of Limoges
Junio, Juliann
I would like to know if anyone has a current lineage for the
line of Arnulf bishop of Metz to Ruricius bishop of Limoges.Also just to
verify the line from Ruricius to Ancia wife of Pontius would be helpful
also. Thanks Juliann Junio
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Nat Taylor
julian...@merck.com ("Junio, Juliann") wrote:
>I would like to know if anyone has a current lineage for the line of
>Arnulf bishop of Metz to Ruricius bishop of Limoges. Also just to
>verify the line from Ruricius to Ancia wife of Pontius would be helpful.
The descent of Charlemagne from Ruricius of Limoges, and the descent of
Ruricius of Limoges from the family of the Anicii, are subject to
divergent reconstructions, being based on different types of evidence
which necessitate speculative genealogical work.
On Charlemagne's provisional descent from Ruricius, see Christian
Settipani's _Les ancêtres de Charlemagne_ (Paris, 1989; with an update
section available on-line at
http://www.rootsweb.com/~medieval/charladdend.htm ).
The link between Ruricius and the Roman gens Anicia is based on the
testimony of a contemporary poet, Venantius Fortunatus, who implied, in a
poetic reference to the Ruricii family, that they were descended from the
Anicii. But how remains unknown. Two divergent published reconstructions
linking Ruricius to the Anicii are:
T. Stanford Mommaerts and David H. Kelley, "The Anicii of Gaul and Rome,"
in _Fifth-Century Gaul: a crisis of identity?_, ed. John Drinkwater and
Hugh Elton (Cambridge, 1992), 11121.
Christian Settipani, "Ruricius, prémier évêque de Limoges, et ses
alliances familiales," Francia 18 (1991), 195222.
Your information derives from the latter, which makes Ruricius a
descendant through an hypothetical marriage between a woman of the Anicii
(branch of the Hermogeniani Olybrii), and a male Pontius, theorized
brother of the poet-bishop Saint Paulinus of Nola, and ancestor of later
Gallo-Roman Pontii bearing their names. In contrast, Mommaerts & Kelley's
reconstruction derives Ruricius from the Anicii in the male line via
different possible intermediaries.
Although the Rurician descent just mentioned there in passing, now see
also Settipani's _Continuité gentilice et continuité familiale dans les
familles sénatoriales romaines a l¹époque impériale: mythe et réalité_,
Prosopographica et Genealogica, 2 (Unit for Prosopographical Research,
Linacre College, Oxford, 2000). An extended discussion of the Anicii just
mentions this connection in a note at 431.
This is one of the best-known possible descents from Roman imperial
aristocracy to Western European nobility via Gallo-Roman aristocrats
(especially bishops) of the fifth and sixth centuries. Settipani has
promised to publish more exploration of this and other such descents in a
forthcoming addition to his _Préhistoire des Capétiens_.
Nat Taylor
T Stanford M S P F Mommaerts-Meulemans-Browne
1. Kelley, David H., 'New Consideration of the Carolingians', New England
Historical Genealogical Register, (1947), Vol. 101, pp. facing 109-facing
112.
2. Mommaerts, T. S. M., & Kelley, D. H., 'The Anicii of Gaul and Rome',
Fifth-Century Gaul: A crisis of identity?, (Drinkwater, John, & Elton, Hugh,
eds.), (1992, Cambridge University), pp. 111-121.
3. Settipani, Christian, Continuité Gentilice et Continuité Familiale dans
les Familles Senatoriales Romanes à l'époque Imperiale: Mythe et Réalité,
(2000, Prosopographica et Genealogica, Linacre College, University of
Oxford)
Settipani
the exact link of Ruricius with Anicii.
Nat Taylor gave in a previous message the essential bibliography on the
subject:
For C. Settipani (1991), Ruricius is the great-grandson of (Pontius) and
(Anicia), daughter of Q. Clodius Hermogenianus Olybrius, cos. 379.
For Stan Mommaerts and Dave Kelley (1992), Ruricius is a son of N, a
proconsul of Africa, a son of Petronius Maximus, emp. 455, son of
Anicius Probinus, cos. 395.
For Ralph Mathisen (1999), Ruricius is the son of (Constantius) and
(Leontia). His paternel grandfather would be Flavius Constantius Felix,
cos. 428.
From 1987, I corresponded with Stan and Dave to discuss their
propositions (the note of my book 'Continuite gentilice', p. 381, is in
reality an extract of a letter to Dave). I am not alone to be spectique:
I. Tantillo, 1999, p. 274 ("not convince"); D. Henning, 1999, p. 28-9
("unbrauchbar, weil äusserst spekulativ"); S A. H. Kennel, 2000, p. 142,
n. 73 ("altogether untrustworthy").
Dr Mathisen bases himself on two elements: one son of Ruricius was named
Constantius, and the consular diptych of the consul of 428 was
transported in Limoges and placed on the coverage of Ruricius's works.
Only second argument can be retained since the name Constantius is not
really attested for the consul of 428 (see ILS, 1293, n. 1; CIL, VI , 8, 3,
41393). although the PLRE and R. Mathisen considers that the
origins of the consul of 428 are unknown, he is certainly a
Gallo-Romain, and almost certainly a member of the family of Ennodii.
But the link with Ruricius, if any, is not clear.
Concerning my own proposition, it is necessary to correct several
points, notably thanks to subsequent studies of H. Sivan (1996), B.
Bruneau (1998), D. Trout (1999), R. Mathisen (1999), S A. H. Kennel
(2000). However, the main line of corrections does not directly touch
the family of Ruricius, but rather that of Ennodius or that of Paulini.
So, I don’t speak about it now.
For Ruricius, R. Mathisen underlined that he had a full brother named
Celsus. Now, Celsus's name could be found in Aquitania only with the
young son of Paulinus of Nole, with a close relation (nephew ?) of the
same Paulinus, a monk of Nole in 404/5 (PCBE, II , 1, p. 427), and with
a consular established near Bordeaux in 404/5 (PLRE, II, Celsus 2, p.
279).
At this time, I maintain my proposition: Ruricius come from a brother of
Paulinus of Nole (maybe the consular Celsus?) who had married an Anicia,
relative of Symmachus.
Anyway, it remains certain that Ruricius come back from Anicii. What is
much less certain, it is the offspring of Ruricius.
I suggested in 1991 that Sacerdos, bishop of Lyons, was the grandson of
Ruricius. To my previous arguments, one can add now an other one: G.
Tikka (1997) underlined that the biogrphy of Sacerdos, of Limoges places
this bishop at the time of Clovis. Sacerdos has so to fit between
Ruricius I and Ruricius II. I had underlined in 1997 to Dr Heinzelmann
that this point, the only one of the Tikkas’s fanciful production, had
to be retained. Since this time, R. Mathisen (1999) arrived
independently exactly at the same conclusion. Moreover, the Vita Iuniani
says that que ‘uir nobilis Ruricius, qui alio nomine Proculus uocabatur
... post di(es)cessum patruilis sui ... domni Roricii praesulis,
Lemouicae urbis institueretur episcopus’. R. Mathisen translates ‘the
nobleman Ruricius, who was called Proculus by another name ... after the
death of his uncle, Ruricius, once bishop of blessed memory, he was made
bishop of the city of Limoges’. But 'patruelis' means ‘fist cousin' and
not 'uncle', and neither make sense here. G. Tikka considers, doubtless
adequatly, that it is necessary to understand originally ‘... after the
death of his first cousin, once bishop of blessed memory (not named),
Ruricius (i.e. Proculus) was made bishop of the city of Limoges’. So,
Ruricius Proculus would have succeeded his first cousin. That is bishop
Sacerdos, who would be so another grandson of Ruricius. According to the
biography, Sacerdos is the son of certain Laban. But the name is
improbable. The biography is too late to be really reliable. R. Mathisen
thinks that the real name would be Leontius. Sacerdos could so be the
son of Leontius, son of Ruricius.
If Ruricius is the paternel grandfather of Sacerdos of Limoges, my
suggestion to make him the maternal grandfather of Sacerdos of Lyons is
considerably strengthened.
As for the link with Arnulf, one can summarize so:
Arnulf is a son of Bodogisel according to texts of 9th c. The Vita
Gundulfi adds that he was the nephew of Gundulf, son of Munderic. This
Gundulf, (great-)uncle of Arnulf, could be the nephew of a first
Gundulf, son of Artemia, sister of Sacerdos, bishop of Lyons.
For the value of these late texts and the confirmations they have in
reliable sources, see now my paper in ' Onomastique and Parente ', p.
185-229.
CS