Alice Hales, wife of Thomas of Brotherton

[J Cook]

Is anything known for certain on the ancestry of Alice Hales, wife of
Thomas of Brotheron, beyond her father Roger and his occupation of
Coroner in Norfolk?

Thanks,
JC

[Wjhonson]

I've removed a few bits of nonsense from Thomas' Wiki poo pee a bio
Specifically years not cited and which are unknown

In reviewing I see that this Roger is referred to
in printed sources, also as
Roger of Harwich, Suffolk and
Roger of Hardwick, Suffolk

Either the same place or some kind of mistake

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[John Higgins]

Brad Verity discussed this in his article in vol. 2 of Foundations in
2006 (the journal of the Foundation for Medieval Genealogy). The
quick answer is that nothing is known for certain beyond the name of
Alice's father, but there are possibilities which Brad discusses.

Will Johnson should have checked Brad's article before making his
hasty corrections to the Wikipedia article on Thomas of Brotherton, as
the article has information which might lead to different conclusions
in some cases than those Will has now reached (and posted without
providing authorities to support them).

[Wjhonson]

My edition was merely to *remove* uncited claims
As such no sources are required for that

-----Original Message-----
From: John Higgins <jhigg...@yahoo.com>
To: gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>

[John Higgins]

On May 18, 12:40 pm, Wjhonson <wjhon...@aol.com> wrote:
> My edition was merely to *remove* uncited claims
> As such no sources are required for that
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Higgins <jhiggins...@yahoo.com>
> To: gen-medieval <gen-medie...@rootsweb.com>
> Sent: Sat, May 18, 2013 12:38 pm
> Subject: Re: Alice Hales, wife of Thomas of Brotherton
>
> On May 18, 5:55 am, J Cook <joec...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Is anything known for certain on the ancestry of Alice Hales, wife of
> > Thomas of Brotheron, beyond her father Roger and his occupation of
> > Coroner in Norfolk?
>
> > Thanks,
> > JC
>
> Brad Verity discussed this in his article in vol. 2 of Foundations in
> 2006 (the journal of the Foundation for Medieval Genealogy).  The
> quick answer is that nothing is known for certain beyond the name of
> Alice's father, but there are possibilities which Brad discusses.
>
> Will Johnson should have checked Brad's article before making his
> hasty corrections to the Wikipedia article on Thomas of Brotherton, as
> the article has information which might lead to different conclusions
> in some cases than those Will has now reached (and posted without
> providing authorities to support them).
>

You didn't just "remove" uncited claims - you substituted new
information (i.e., dates) which was itself uncited. That's the
point. Fortunately one of your edits has since been removed by a
subsequent contributor - who did provide a source (of a sort).

Check Brad's article for further information....

[Wjhonson]

I have added a fact tag to this uncited claim
Using the history tagline to add a source is not
accepted wiki poo pee a practice

Perhaps this contributor can come back and
correctly cite the claim with a page number
edition etc.

Otherwise I'll remove the claim in a month

[joe...@gmail.com]

I thought I responded to this, but don't see it. Calling him of Harwich, etc, is a 17th century error. He is of Norfolk, and Brad Verity has a 2006 article in FMG that covers his marriage and the marriage of his children in detail. It is within this article that the Norwich//Harwich error is identified as well.

[joe...@gmail.com]

I may also have to dig into that wikipedia article. I believe the date of death may be wrong (it lists the day he wrote his will, not his death date), and I'm suspicious of that statement defining the job of the coroner. Isn't there a record of an assault of Roger Hales while in his duties coming onto the scene of a dead body?

[joe...@gmail.com]

oh yes, I thought so..

Calender of the Patent Rolls. Membrane 17d. July 10, 1303.

The like to William Haward and John le Breton, on complaint by Roger de Hales, coroner of the county of Norfolk, that when he went to a place in Norwich called Tomlond and Ratounerowe, within the precinct of the king's hundred of Blofeld, to view a corpse and execute his office as coroner of the county, Geoffrey Kemp, et. al., etc.....

and more from http://www.hales.org/nsv6n3.htm

[Wjhonson]

I have removed any reference to the 4th of Aug
leaving only Aug 1338

-----Original Message-----
From: joecook <joe...@gmail.com>
To: gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Sat, May 18, 2013 2:20 pm
Subject: Re: Alice Hales, wife of Thomas of Brotherton

[Wjhonson]

http://sdrc.lib.uiowa.edu/patentrolls/e1v4/body/Edward1vol4page0190.pdf

-----Original Message-----
From: joecook <joe...@gmail.com>

To: gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Sat, May 18, 2013 2:25 pm
Subject: Re: Alice Hales, wife of Thomas of Brotherton

[John Watson]

On May 19, 5:43 am, Wjhonson <wjhon...@aol.com> wrote:
> http://sdrc.lib.uiowa.edu/patentrolls/e1v4/body/Edward1vol4page0190.pdf
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: joecook <joec...@gmail.com>
> To: gen-medieval <gen-medie...@rootsweb.com>
> Sent: Sat, May 18, 2013 2:25 pm
> Subject: Re: Alice Hales, wife of Thomas of Brotherton
>
> oh yes, I thought so..
>
> Calender of the Patent Rolls. Membrane 17d. July 10, 1303.
>
> The like to William Haward and John le Breton, on complaint by Roger de Hales,
> coroner of the county of Norfolk, that when he went to a place in Norwich called
> Tomlond and Ratounerowe, within the precinct of the king's hundred of Blofeld,
> to view a corpse and execute his office as coroner of the county, Geoffrey Kemp,
> et. al., etc.....
>

> and more fromhttp://www.hales.org/nsv6n3.htm
>
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29 July 1309, To the sheriff of Norfolk. Order to cause a coroner for
that county to be elected in place of Roger de Hales, who is
insufficiently qualified.
Calendar of Close Rolls, Edward II: volume 1: 1307-1313 (1892), p. 165

19 June 1313, To the sheriff of Norfolk. Order to cause a coroner for
that county to be elected in place of Roger de Hales, deceased.
Calendar of Close Rolls, Edward II: volume 1: 1307-1313 (1892), p. 538

Regards,

John

[joseph cook]

He is of Norfolk. The error calling him of Harwich is a 17th century
error. See Brad Verity's good article on Thomas of Brotherton for many
original citations. (appeared FMG 2006)

--joe c

On Saturday, May 18, 2013, Wjhonson <wjho...@aol.com> wrote:
> I've removed a few bits of nonsense from Thomas' Wiki poo pee a bio
> Specifically years not cited and which are unknown
>
> In reviewing I see that this Roger is referred to
> in printed sources, also as
> Roger of Harwich, Suffolk and
> Roger of Hardwick, Suffolk
>
> Either the same place or some kind of mistake
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: J Cook <joe...@gmail.com>
> To: gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>

> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to

GEN-MEDIEV...@rootsweb.com