Was Adèle, Countess of Bar-sur-Aube, married twice before she married Raoul, Count of Valois?

[Adrienne Boaz]

Dear
Medieval Geneaologists,
I
have an article written in French, by Robert-Henri Bautier:
"Anne
de Kiev, reine de France, et la politique royale au XIe siècle : étude critique
de la documentation" in Revue des études slaves 1985 Volume 57
Issue 57-4.
 
The
article seems to indicate that after Adèle was married to Renard (Renaud),
Count of Joigny, and then after she was "rescued" by Raoul III, she
was placed in the care of Roger, Lord of Vignory. The reason I wonder if she
was subsequently married to Roger of Vignory is because Raoul once again
becomes furious and goes on a rampage. He already did that! That man may have had
some anger issues. Here are the series of events:
 
1.
Raoul III pledged to marry Adèle after he returned from his pilgrimage to Rome.

2. She was immediately married to Renaud, Count of Joigny, before Raoul could
return.

3. Raoul returned, and then gathered men, besieged the castle, fell on Renaud's
lands, removed Adèle, and locked her up long enough to determine that she was
not pregnant.

4. Raoul went to Crépy while the vassals of the Countess Adèle entrusted her
(or delivered her) to Roger, the lord of Vignory.

5. Raoul returned and once again became enraged, returned, ravaged, pillaged and
burned throughout the country until they yielded the Countess.
 
Here
is the sentence that seems a little ambiguous to me:
Comme
entre temps il était retourné à Crépy, les vassaux de la comtesse la délivrent
et la confient au seigneur de Vignory Roger. Dès qu'il l'apprend, Raoul, devenu
furieux, revient, ravage, pille et brûle tout le pays jusqu'à ce qu'on lui
rende la comtesse.
 
I
have it as:
Meanwhile,
when Raoul returned to Crépy, the vassals of the Countess entrusted or delivered
Adèle to Roger, the lord of Vignory. As soon as he learned, Raoul became
enraged, returned, ravaged, pillaged and burned throughout the country until
they yielded the Countess.
 
Then,
I noticed on Leo’s Genealogics site that Adèle was married to Roger of Vignory.
Do I have my facts straight? Adèle was married to Renaud, then Roger, then
Raoul?
 
Thanks,
everyone, for your time.
Sincerely,
Adrienne
Boaz

[CE Wood]

She married 4 times:

Marriage 1 Renaud De Semur-En-Brionnais
Marriage 2 Renard Count Of Joigny
Marriage 3 Roger De Vignory
Marriage 4 Raoul III The Great Count Of Valois And Vexin


CE Wood

[Peter Stewart]

On 24/02/2012 4:10 AM, Adrienne Boaz wrote:
> Dear
> Medieval Geneaologists,
> I
> have an article written in French, by Robert-Henri Bautier:
> "Anne
> de Kiev, reine de France, et la politique royale au XIe siècle : étude critique
> de la documentation" in Revue des études slaves 1985 Volume 57
> Issue 57-4.
>
> The
> article seems to indicate that after Adèle was married to Renard (Renaud),
> Count of Joigny, and then after she was "rescued" by Raoul III, she
> was placed in the care of Roger, Lord of Vignory. The reason I wonder if she
> was subsequently married to Roger of Vignory is because Raoul once again
> becomes furious and goes on a rampage. He already did that! That man may have had
> some anger issues.

The account of Adela's marriages comes from a 13th-century document
about La Ferté-sur-Aube, part of her inheritance. The provenance of this
is not certain: it appears have been written at, or anyway held in the
library of, Saint-Oyend (later Saint-Claude) abbey in the Jura, where
her son St Simon of Valois was a monk in the 1070s - by the 18th century
it had found its way into a private collection in Dijon and from there
it passed to the municipal library of Troyes.

According to this, written around two centuries later, she was married
first to Rainald of Semur who died without issue, then betrothed to
Raoul of Crépy, count of Valois when on his way to Rome; but in his
absence she was married instead to Renard of Joigny because her own
vassals were apprehensive of Raoul's power over them. On return Raoul
sacked Joigny and took custody of Adela, holding her at La Ferté to make
sure she was not pregnant to Renard - but again her vassals intervened
and she was given to Roger of Vignory, causing Raoul to go on a second
rampage that decided the matter; finally he married Adela and she had
children with him.

The document (sometimes referenced as 'Charta de advocatis Firmitatis ad
Alba') has been reprinted many times - several of these can be found
online, for instance 'Acta Sanctorum', September vol 8 (1762) p. 720 and
'Histoire de Bar-sur-Aube sous les comtes de Champagne, 1077-1284' by
Henri d'Arbois de Jubainville (1859) pp 133-134.

Peter Stewart

[Adrienne Boaz]

Dear Peter Stewart and C.E. Wood,
Thank you very much for this great information! Peter, I am especially grateful that you listed those sources for me, and I am really looking forward to reading those.

Very Sincerely (and with much gratitude),
Adrienne Boaz

[Wjhonson]

Are any of the below events dated ?
I have her daughter Adela by this last husband, born *by* 1041 on chronological grounds

-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GEN-MEDIEV...@rootsweb.com
with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of
the message

[Adrienne Boaz]

Adele, who married Raoul III, died by the year 1053 or 1054. Raoul remarried to his third wife, Anna of Kiev, by about 1060 or 1061; he began an affair with her just after Henri I died on August 4, 1060. Those are the only dates I was able to discover. The sources I used for those were:

1. du Fresne, Charles, Sieur du Cange. Histoire de l'état de
la Ville d'Amiens et de ses Comtes, avec un Recueil de Plusieurs Titres
Concernant L’Histoire de Cette Ville, qui n’ont pas Encore Esté Publiez. Ouvrage Inédit,
Publié D'après Le Texte du Manuscrit Original De La Bibliothèque Royale. Amiens. 1840. Pages 184-205.

2. Bautier, Robert-Henri. “Anne de Kiev, reine de France,
et la politique royale au XIe siècle: étude critique de la documentation.” Revue
des études slaves. Volume 57, Issue 57-4. 1985. Pages 543-546 and 549-564.

Speaking of sources, does anyone have a copy of Philip Grierson's article,
"L'origin des comtes d'Amiens, Valois et Vexin" in Le
Moyen Age 49 (1939)?
 
 - Adrienne Boaz

________________________________
From: Wjhonson <wjho...@aol.com>
To: pss...@optusnet.com.au; gen-me...@rootsweb.com
Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2012 11:03 AM

[Peter Stewart]

On 26/02/2012 4:03 AM, Adrienne Boaz wrote:
> Adele, who married Raoul III, died by the year 1053 or 1054.

She died on 11 September according to an undated charter written in
1076/77 ("III idus septembris obiit Adelina comitissa"), and she was
dead by 1053 according to the later notice of a charter dated in that
year ("Rodulfus comes Crespeiacensis ... post mortem Adelae uxoris suae").

> Raoul remarried to his third wife, Anna of Kiev, by about 1060 or 1061; he began an affair with her just after Henri I died on August 4, 1060. Those are the only dates I was able to discover.

In the meantime he had married his second wife, named Haquenez, who was
still living when he married Queen Anna.

> The sources I used for those were:
>
>
> 1. du Fresne, Charles, Sieur du Cange. Histoire de l'état de
> la Ville d'Amiens et de ses Comtes, avec un Recueil de Plusieurs Titres
> Concernant L’Histoire de Cette Ville, qui n’ont pas Encore Esté Publiez. Ouvrage Inédit,
> Publié D'après Le Texte du Manuscrit Original De La Bibliothèque Royale. Amiens. 1840. Pages 184-205.
>
> 2. Bautier, Robert-Henri. “Anne de Kiev, reine de France,
> et la politique royale au XIe siècle: étude critique de la documentation.” Revue
> des études slaves. Volume 57, Issue 57-4. 1985. Pages 543-546 and 549-564.
>
> Speaking of sources, does anyone have a copy of Philip Grierson's article,
> "L'origin des comtes d'Amiens, Valois et Vexin" in Le
> Moyen Age 49 (1939)?

I have a copy of this article by Grierson.

Peter Stewart