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That Anne Browne and Margaret Neville were first cousins
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Wjhonson
May 11, 2013, 12:03:07 PM5/11/13
to gen-me...@rootsweb.com
Wjhonson
May 14, 2013, 1:59:09 PM5/14/13
to gen-me...@rootsweb.com
I'm now unsure about this claim that they were first cousins.
Back in 2005, a claim was made here, that Anne Browne was by a prior wife whose origin is unclear, and it's probably true that Anne, at any rate, must have been the eldest child to be thought *able* to consent to a pre-contract, made verballly between the two of them with no witnesses. If she weren't of the age to consent, it's hard to think how she could be old enough to get preggers that very same year, and prior to his marriage at the end of 1507
One would think that if they were in fact first cousins, that this alone might trump any idea of a pre-contract (which is called into question anyway by at least one modern author), and so allow the divorce. It's very nice to use pre-contracts (which no one else witnessed) to explain how you got some girl child pregnant, but they always have to viewed with a suspicious eye.
-----Original Message-----
From: Wjhonson <wjho...@aol.com>
To: gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Sat, May 11, 2013 9:03 am
Subject: That Anne Browne and Margaret Neville were first cousins
http://books.google.com/books?id=qgyoAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA134
Adrian
May 15, 2013, 2:51:36 PM5/15/13
to gen-me...@rootsweb.com, Wjhonson
They were not first cousins. Margaret was sister of Anne's stepmother.
Anne was Anthony Browne's 1st and only known issue by his first wife,
probably Eleanor (-bur St Nicholas Chapel, Calais) d of Robert Ughtred
Adrian
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Anne was Anthony Browne's 1st and only known issue by his first wife,
probably Eleanor (-bur St Nicholas Chapel, Calais) d of Robert Ughtred
Adrian
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Wjhonson
May 15, 2013, 2:56:16 PM5/15/13
to adri...@btinternet.com, gen-me...@rootsweb.com
What is your source for this Eleanor's existence?
CE Wood
May 15, 2013, 4:39:46 PM5/15/13
to
From Chris Phillips' site:
" Sir Anthony's first wife was perhaps the Eleanor Ughtred, for whose marriage to Sir Anthony Brown, knight, a licence was issued to the rector of St Wifrid's, York, 20 January 1487/8 [Testamenta Eboracensia (Surtees Society, vol.45, 1865), vol.3, p.352]. Complete Peerage, vol.12, part 2, p.164, note c, says that this Eleanor was the daughter of Sir Robert Ughtred (d.1487).
[Adrian Channing suggested this identification for Anne's mother, in November 2001.]"
CE Wood
" Sir Anthony's first wife was perhaps the Eleanor Ughtred, for whose marriage to Sir Anthony Brown, knight, a licence was issued to the rector of St Wifrid's, York, 20 January 1487/8 [Testamenta Eboracensia (Surtees Society, vol.45, 1865), vol.3, p.352]. Complete Peerage, vol.12, part 2, p.164, note c, says that this Eleanor was the daughter of Sir Robert Ughtred (d.1487).
[Adrian Channing suggested this identification for Anne's mother, in November 2001.]"
CE Wood
Adrian
May 15, 2013, 7:38:37 PM5/15/13
to gen-me...@rootsweb.com
Further details of the connection between Anne and Margaret is given in CP
under Suffolk Vol XIIa page 458 and 459 as corrected by Vol XIV.
Note (g) on page 458 considers a “Notarial attestation of a bull exhibited,
20 Aug. 1529 ...” amongst other things, states that Suffolk’s grandmother
was sister of the father of a former husband of Margaret’s (ac etiam ex eo
avia tua et genitor olim conjugis dictae Margaretae frater et soror fuerant)
I’ve not been able to work this out with the information I have.
I have Suffolks’ grandmothers as (a) Elizabeth dau of Robert Wingfield and
(b) Elizabeth d of Robert Darcy of Maldon, Essex (she m Henry Bruyn and
left Elizabeth who m2 William Brandon. This Bruyn family was not connected
to Anne Browne’s family)
Margaret Nevill married 1stly Sir John Mortimer, m2 (dism) 1507 Charles
Brandon m3 Robert Downes or Downyns.
Perhaps Margaret had another earlier marriage?
Adrian
-----Original Message-----
From: CE Wood
Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 9:39 PM Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
To: gen-me...@rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: That Anne Browne and Margaret Neville were first cousins
under Suffolk Vol XIIa page 458 and 459 as corrected by Vol XIV.
Note (g) on page 458 considers a “Notarial attestation of a bull exhibited,
20 Aug. 1529 ...” amongst other things, states that Suffolk’s grandmother
was sister of the father of a former husband of Margaret’s (ac etiam ex eo
avia tua et genitor olim conjugis dictae Margaretae frater et soror fuerant)
I’ve not been able to work this out with the information I have.
I have Suffolks’ grandmothers as (a) Elizabeth dau of Robert Wingfield and
(b) Elizabeth d of Robert Darcy of Maldon, Essex (she m Henry Bruyn and
left Elizabeth who m2 William Brandon. This Bruyn family was not connected
to Anne Browne’s family)
Margaret Nevill married 1stly Sir John Mortimer, m2 (dism) 1507 Charles
Brandon m3 Robert Downes or Downyns.
Perhaps Margaret had another earlier marriage?
Adrian
-----Original Message-----
From: CE Wood
Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 9:39 PM Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
To: gen-me...@rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: That Anne Browne and Margaret Neville were first cousins
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Wjhonson
May 15, 2013, 7:43:22 PM5/15/13
to adri...@btinternet.com, gen-me...@rootsweb.com
I think I have this in a more specific source Adrian, I'll see later today when I get home, and onto my laptop there.
-----Original Message-----
From: Adrian <adri...@btinternet.com>
To: gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Wed, May 15, 2013 4:39 pm
Subject: Re: That Anne Browne and Margaret Neville were first cousins
-----Original Message-----
From: Adrian <adri...@btinternet.com>
To: gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Wed, May 15, 2013 4:39 pm
Subject: Re: That Anne Browne and Margaret Neville were first cousins
Further details of the connection between Anne and Margaret is given in CP
under Suffolk Vol XIIa page 458 and 459 as corrected by Vol XIV.
Note (g) on page 458 considers a “Notarial attestation of a bull exhibited,
20 Aug. 1529 ...” amongst other things, states that Suffolk’s grandmother
was sister of the father of a former husband of Margaret’s (ac etiam ex eo
avia tua et genitor olim conjugis dictae Margaretae frater et soror fuerant)
I’ve not been able to work this out with the information I have.
I have Suffolks’ grandmothers as (a) Elizabeth dau of Robert Wingfield and
(b) Elizabeth d of Robert Darcy of Maldon, Essex (she m Henry Bruyn and
left Elizabeth who m2 William Brandon. This Bruyn family was not connected
to Anne Browne’s family)
Margaret Nevill married 1stly Sir John Mortimer, m2 (dism) 1507 Charles
Brandon m3 Robert Downes or Downyns.
Perhaps Margaret had another earlier marriage?
Adrian
-----Original Message-----
From: CE Wood
Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 9:39 PM Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
under Suffolk Vol XIIa page 458 and 459 as corrected by Vol XIV.
Note (g) on page 458 considers a “Notarial attestation of a bull exhibited,
20 Aug. 1529 ...” amongst other things, states that Suffolk’s grandmother
was sister of the father of a former husband of Margaret’s (ac etiam ex eo
avia tua et genitor olim conjugis dictae Margaretae frater et soror fuerant)
I’ve not been able to work this out with the information I have.
I have Suffolks’ grandmothers as (a) Elizabeth dau of Robert Wingfield and
(b) Elizabeth d of Robert Darcy of Maldon, Essex (she m Henry Bruyn and
left Elizabeth who m2 William Brandon. This Bruyn family was not connected
to Anne Browne’s family)
Margaret Nevill married 1stly Sir John Mortimer, m2 (dism) 1507 Charles
Brandon m3 Robert Downes or Downyns.
Perhaps Margaret had another earlier marriage?
Adrian
-----Original Message-----
From: CE Wood
Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 9:39 PM Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
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Wjhonson
May 16, 2013, 12:18:51 AM5/16/13
to wjho...@aol.com, adri...@btinternet.com, gen-me...@rootsweb.com
It turns out my source isn't any more clear on this point.
Just says that the grandmother of Charles and the father of the previous husband of Lady Mortimer (Charles' then wife) had been siblings. Doesn't get more specific than that, and I can't see how that works in my database either.
-----Original Message-----
From: Wjhonson <wjho...@aol.com>
To: adriantwo <adri...@btinternet.com>; gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Wed, May 15, 2013 4:43 pm
Subject: Re: That Anne Browne and Margaret Neville were first cousins
Just says that the grandmother of Charles and the father of the previous husband of Lady Mortimer (Charles' then wife) had been siblings. Doesn't get more specific than that, and I can't see how that works in my database either.
-----Original Message-----
From: Wjhonson <wjho...@aol.com>
To: adriantwo <adri...@btinternet.com>; gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Wed, May 15, 2013 4:43 pm
Subject: Re: That Anne Browne and Margaret Neville were first cousins
I think I have this in a more specific source Adrian, I'll see later today when
I get home, and onto my laptop there.
I get home, and onto my laptop there.
-----Original Message-----
From: Adrian <adri...@btinternet.com>
To: gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Wed, May 15, 2013 4:39 pm
Subject: Re: That Anne Browne and Margaret Neville were first cousins
From: Adrian <adri...@btinternet.com>
To: gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Wed, May 15, 2013 4:39 pm
Subject: Re: That Anne Browne and Margaret Neville were first cousins
Further details of the connection between Anne and Margaret is given in CP
under Suffolk Vol XIIa page 458 and 459 as corrected by Vol XIV.
Note (g) on page 458 considers a “Notarial attestation of a bull exhibited,
20 Aug. 1529 ...” amongst other things, states that Suffolk’s grandmother
was sister of the father of a former husband of Margaret’s (ac etiam ex eo
avia tua et genitor olim conjugis dictae Margaretae frater et soror fuerant)
I’ve not been able to work this out with the information I have.
I have Suffolks’ grandmothers as (a) Elizabeth dau of Robert Wingfield and
(b) Elizabeth d of Robert Darcy of Maldon, Essex (she m Henry Bruyn and
left Elizabeth who m2 William Brandon. This Bruyn family was not connected
to Anne Browne’s family)
Margaret Nevill married 1stly Sir John Mortimer, m2 (dism) 1507 Charles
Brandon m3 Robert Downes or Downyns.
Perhaps Margaret had another earlier marriage?
Adrian
-----Original Message-----
From: CE Wood
Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 9:39 PM Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
under Suffolk Vol XIIa page 458 and 459 as corrected by Vol XIV.
Note (g) on page 458 considers a “Notarial attestation of a bull exhibited,
20 Aug. 1529 ...” amongst other things, states that Suffolk’s grandmother
was sister of the father of a former husband of Margaret’s (ac etiam ex eo
avia tua et genitor olim conjugis dictae Margaretae frater et soror fuerant)
I’ve not been able to work this out with the information I have.
I have Suffolks’ grandmothers as (a) Elizabeth dau of Robert Wingfield and
(b) Elizabeth d of Robert Darcy of Maldon, Essex (she m Henry Bruyn and
left Elizabeth who m2 William Brandon. This Bruyn family was not connected
to Anne Browne’s family)
Margaret Nevill married 1stly Sir John Mortimer, m2 (dism) 1507 Charles
Brandon m3 Robert Downes or Downyns.
Perhaps Margaret had another earlier marriage?
Adrian
-----Original Message-----
From: CE Wood
Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 9:39 PM Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
-------------------------------
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No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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Version: 2013.0.3336 / Virus Database: 3162/6326 - Release Date: 05/15/13
Wjhonson
May 16, 2013, 12:22:44 AM5/16/13
to adri...@btinternet.com, gen-me...@rootsweb.com
I have Margaret Neville as married firstly to Robert Horne
by whom a daughter Anne who m1 James Framlingham (d 1519) and m2 Robert Browne
This Anne was her father's heiress
Margaret secondly married John Mortimer who d.s.p. will proved 1505 when his heir was his sister Elizabeth Lady de la Warre
-----Original Message-----
From: Adrian <adri...@btinternet.com>
To: gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Wed, May 15, 2013 4:39 pm
Subject: Re: That Anne Browne and Margaret Neville were first cousins
by whom a daughter Anne who m1 James Framlingham (d 1519) and m2 Robert Browne
This Anne was her father's heiress
Margaret secondly married John Mortimer who d.s.p. will proved 1505 when his heir was his sister Elizabeth Lady de la Warre
-----Original Message-----
From: Adrian <adri...@btinternet.com>
To: gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Wed, May 15, 2013 4:39 pm
Subject: Re: That Anne Browne and Margaret Neville were first cousins
Further details of the connection between Anne and Margaret is given in CP
under Suffolk Vol XIIa page 458 and 459 as corrected by Vol XIV.
Note (g) on page 458 considers a “Notarial attestation of a bull exhibited,
20 Aug. 1529 ...” amongst other things, states that Suffolk’s grandmother
was sister of the father of a former husband of Margaret’s (ac etiam ex eo
avia tua et genitor olim conjugis dictae Margaretae frater et soror fuerant)
I’ve not been able to work this out with the information I have.
I have Suffolks’ grandmothers as (a) Elizabeth dau of Robert Wingfield and
(b) Elizabeth d of Robert Darcy of Maldon, Essex (she m Henry Bruyn and
left Elizabeth who m2 William Brandon. This Bruyn family was not connected
to Anne Browne’s family)
Margaret Nevill married 1stly Sir John Mortimer, m2 (dism) 1507 Charles
Brandon m3 Robert Downes or Downyns.
Perhaps Margaret had another earlier marriage?
Adrian
-----Original Message-----
From: CE Wood
Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 9:39 PM Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
under Suffolk Vol XIIa page 458 and 459 as corrected by Vol XIV.
Note (g) on page 458 considers a “Notarial attestation of a bull exhibited,
20 Aug. 1529 ...” amongst other things, states that Suffolk’s grandmother
was sister of the father of a former husband of Margaret’s (ac etiam ex eo
avia tua et genitor olim conjugis dictae Margaretae frater et soror fuerant)
I’ve not been able to work this out with the information I have.
I have Suffolks’ grandmothers as (a) Elizabeth dau of Robert Wingfield and
(b) Elizabeth d of Robert Darcy of Maldon, Essex (she m Henry Bruyn and
left Elizabeth who m2 William Brandon. This Bruyn family was not connected
to Anne Browne’s family)
Margaret Nevill married 1stly Sir John Mortimer, m2 (dism) 1507 Charles
Brandon m3 Robert Downes or Downyns.
Perhaps Margaret had another earlier marriage?
Adrian
-----Original Message-----
From: CE Wood
Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 9:39 PM Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
GEN-MEDIEV...@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
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No virus found in this message.
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Adrian
May 16, 2013, 5:52:23 AM5/16/13
to gen-me...@rootsweb.com
I have this Anne but as an illegitimate daughter of Margaret Nevill (based on Douglas Richardson’s email of 4 Sep 2007 headed: “Possible C.P. Addition: Margaret Neville's marriage John or Thomas or Robert Horne”)
I suppose the implication of this message is that this Anne was by Horne – have you another source for this?
I have a little worry that “Horne”, “Browne” and “Downes” would all look pretty similar in a written document.
Adrian
From: Wjhonson
Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 5:22 AM
To: adri...@btinternet.com ; gen-me...@rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: That Anne Browne and Margaret Neville were first cousins
I suppose the implication of this message is that this Anne was by Horne – have you another source for this?
I have a little worry that “Horne”, “Browne” and “Downes” would all look pretty similar in a written document.
Adrian
From: Wjhonson
Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 5:22 AM
To: adri...@btinternet.com ; gen-me...@rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: That Anne Browne and Margaret Neville were first cousins
I have Margaret Neville as married firstly to Robert Horne
by whom a daughter Anne who m1 James Framlingham (d 1519) and m2 Robert Browne
This Anne was her father's heiress
Margaret secondly married John Mortimer who d.s.p. will proved 1505 when his heir was his sister Elizabeth Lady de la Warre
by whom a daughter Anne who m1 James Framlingham (d 1519) and m2 Robert Browne
This Anne was her father's heiress
Margaret secondly married John Mortimer who d.s.p. will proved 1505 when his heir was his sister Elizabeth Lady de la Warre
-----Original Message-----
From: Adrian <adri...@btinternet.com>
To: gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Wed, May 15, 2013 4:39 pm
Subject: Re: That Anne Browne and Margaret Neville were first cousins
From: Adrian <adri...@btinternet.com>
To: gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Wed, May 15, 2013 4:39 pm
Subject: Re: That Anne Browne and Margaret Neville were first cousins
Further details of the connection between Anne and Margaret is given in CP
under Suffolk Vol XIIa page 458 and 459 as corrected by Vol XIV.
Note (g) on page 458 considers a “Notarial attestation of a bull exhibited,
20 Aug. 1529 ...” amongst other things, states that Suffolk’s grandmother
was sister of the father of a former husband of Margaret’s (ac etiam ex eo
avia tua et genitor olim conjugis dictae Margaretae frater et soror fuerant)
I’ve not been able to work this out with the information I have.
I have Suffolks’ grandmothers as (a) Elizabeth dau of Robert Wingfield and
(b) Elizabeth d of Robert Darcy of Maldon, Essex (she m Henry Bruyn and
left Elizabeth who m2 William Brandon. This Bruyn family was not connected
to Anne Browne’s family)
Margaret Nevill married 1stly Sir John Mortimer, m2 (dism) 1507 Charles
Brandon m3 Robert Downes or Downyns.
Perhaps Margaret had another earlier marriage?
Adrian
-----Original Message-----
From: CE Wood
Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 9:39 PM Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
under Suffolk Vol XIIa page 458 and 459 as corrected by Vol XIV.
Note (g) on page 458 considers a “Notarial attestation of a bull exhibited,
20 Aug. 1529 ...” amongst other things, states that Suffolk’s grandmother
was sister of the father of a former husband of Margaret’s (ac etiam ex eo
avia tua et genitor olim conjugis dictae Margaretae frater et soror fuerant)
I’ve not been able to work this out with the information I have.
I have Suffolks’ grandmothers as (a) Elizabeth dau of Robert Wingfield and
(b) Elizabeth d of Robert Darcy of Maldon, Essex (she m Henry Bruyn and
left Elizabeth who m2 William Brandon. This Bruyn family was not connected
to Anne Browne’s family)
Margaret Nevill married 1stly Sir John Mortimer, m2 (dism) 1507 Charles
Brandon m3 Robert Downes or Downyns.
Perhaps Margaret had another earlier marriage?
Adrian
-----Original Message-----
From: CE Wood
Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 9:39 PM Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
GEN-MEDIEV...@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
quotes in the subject and the body of the message
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
GEN-MEDIEV...@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2013.0.3336 / Virus Database: 3162/6326 - Release Date: 05/15/13
-------------------------------
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Wjhonson
May 16, 2013, 11:10:00 AM5/16/13
to adri...@btinternet.com, gen-me...@rootsweb.com
The item which destroys the idea that she was illegitimate is the quarterings of her grandson Charles
*who* took them as if Anne were an heiress which would extermely presumtive in his lifetime
if his grandmother were known *in* her lifetime to be a bastard.
So although there is an item calling her 'natural'
My claim is that this only meant 'lawful'
And she would not be entitled to claim in a suit, if she were only illegitimate
-----Original Message-----
From: Adrian <adri...@btinternet.com>
To: gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thu, May 16, 2013 2:53 am
Subject: Re: That Anne Browne and Margaret Neville were first cousins
*who* took them as if Anne were an heiress which would extermely presumtive in his lifetime
if his grandmother were known *in* her lifetime to be a bastard.
So although there is an item calling her 'natural'
My claim is that this only meant 'lawful'
And she would not be entitled to claim in a suit, if she were only illegitimate
-----Original Message-----
From: Adrian <adri...@btinternet.com>
To: gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thu, May 16, 2013 2:53 am
Subject: Re: That Anne Browne and Margaret Neville were first cousins
I have this Anne but as an illegitimate daughter of Margaret Nevill (based on
Douglas Richardson’s email of 4 Sep 2007 headed: “Possible C.P. Addition:
Margaret Neville's marriage John or Thomas or Robert Horne”)
I suppose the implication of this message is that this Anne was by Horne – have
you another source for this?
I have a little worry that “Horne”, “Browne” and “Downes” would all look pretty
similar in a written document.
Adrian
From: Wjhonson
Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 5:22 AM
Douglas Richardson’s email of 4 Sep 2007 headed: “Possible C.P. Addition:
Margaret Neville's marriage John or Thomas or Robert Horne”)
I suppose the implication of this message is that this Anne was by Horne – have
you another source for this?
I have a little worry that “Horne”, “Browne” and “Downes” would all look pretty
similar in a written document.
Adrian
From: Wjhonson
Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 5:22 AM
To: adri...@btinternet.com ; gen-me...@rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: That Anne Browne and Margaret Neville were first cousins
Subject: Re: That Anne Browne and Margaret Neville were first cousins
I have Margaret Neville as married firstly to Robert Horne
by whom a daughter Anne who m1 James Framlingham (d 1519) and m2 Robert Browne
This Anne was her father's heiress
Margaret secondly married John Mortimer who d.s.p. will proved 1505 when his
heir was his sister Elizabeth Lady de la Warre
by whom a daughter Anne who m1 James Framlingham (d 1519) and m2 Robert Browne
This Anne was her father's heiress
Margaret secondly married John Mortimer who d.s.p. will proved 1505 when his
heir was his sister Elizabeth Lady de la Warre
-----Original Message-----
From: Adrian <adri...@btinternet.com>
To: gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Wed, May 15, 2013 4:39 pm
Subject: Re: That Anne Browne and Margaret Neville were first cousins
From: Adrian <adri...@btinternet.com>
To: gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Wed, May 15, 2013 4:39 pm
Subject: Re: That Anne Browne and Margaret Neville were first cousins
Further details of the connection between Anne and Margaret is given in CP
under Suffolk Vol XIIa page 458 and 459 as corrected by Vol XIV.
Note (g) on page 458 considers a “Notarial attestation of a bull exhibited,
20 Aug. 1529 ...” amongst other things, states that Suffolk’s grandmother
was sister of the father of a former husband of Margaret’s (ac etiam ex eo
avia tua et genitor olim conjugis dictae Margaretae frater et soror fuerant)
I’ve not been able to work this out with the information I have.
I have Suffolks’ grandmothers as (a) Elizabeth dau of Robert Wingfield and
(b) Elizabeth d of Robert Darcy of Maldon, Essex (she m Henry Bruyn and
left Elizabeth who m2 William Brandon. This Bruyn family was not connected
to Anne Browne’s family)
Margaret Nevill married 1stly Sir John Mortimer, m2 (dism) 1507 Charles
Brandon m3 Robert Downes or Downyns.
Perhaps Margaret had another earlier marriage?
Adrian
-----Original Message-----
From: CE Wood
Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 9:39 PM Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
under Suffolk Vol XIIa page 458 and 459 as corrected by Vol XIV.
Note (g) on page 458 considers a “Notarial attestation of a bull exhibited,
20 Aug. 1529 ...” amongst other things, states that Suffolk’s grandmother
was sister of the father of a former husband of Margaret’s (ac etiam ex eo
avia tua et genitor olim conjugis dictae Margaretae frater et soror fuerant)
I’ve not been able to work this out with the information I have.
I have Suffolks’ grandmothers as (a) Elizabeth dau of Robert Wingfield and
(b) Elizabeth d of Robert Darcy of Maldon, Essex (she m Henry Bruyn and
left Elizabeth who m2 William Brandon. This Bruyn family was not connected
to Anne Browne’s family)
Margaret Nevill married 1stly Sir John Mortimer, m2 (dism) 1507 Charles
Brandon m3 Robert Downes or Downyns.
Perhaps Margaret had another earlier marriage?
Adrian
-----Original Message-----
From: CE Wood
Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 9:39 PM Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
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Version: 2013.0.3336 / Virus Database: 3162/6327 - Release Date: 05/15/13
Wjhonson
May 16, 2013, 11:11:22 AM5/16/13
to wjho...@aol.com, adri...@btinternet.com, gen-me...@rootsweb.com
http://books.google.com/books?id=6BoaAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA238
http://books.google.com/books?id=6BoaAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA239
Her grandson Charles' quarterings
-----Original Message-----
From: Wjhonson <wjho...@aol.com>
To: adriantwo <adri...@btinternet.com>; gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thu, May 16, 2013 8:10 am
Subject: Re: That Anne Browne and Margaret Neville were first cousins
http://books.google.com/books?id=6BoaAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA239
Her grandson Charles' quarterings
-----Original Message-----
From: Wjhonson <wjho...@aol.com>
To: adriantwo <adri...@btinternet.com>; gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thu, May 16, 2013 8:10 am
Subject: Re: That Anne Browne and Margaret Neville were first cousins
The item which destroys the idea that she was illegitimate is the quarterings of her grandson Charles
*who* took them as if Anne were an heiress which would extermely presumtive in his lifetime
if his grandmother were known *in* her lifetime to be a bastard.
So although there is an item calling her 'natural'
My claim is that this only meant 'lawful'
And she would not be entitled to claim in a suit, if she were only illegitimate
*who* took them as if Anne were an heiress which would extermely presumtive in his lifetime
if his grandmother were known *in* her lifetime to be a bastard.
So although there is an item calling her 'natural'
My claim is that this only meant 'lawful'
And she would not be entitled to claim in a suit, if she were only illegitimate
-----Original Message-----
From: Adrian <adri...@btinternet.com>
To: gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thu, May 16, 2013 2:53 am
Subject: Re: That Anne Browne and Margaret Neville were first cousins
From: Adrian <adri...@btinternet.com>
To: gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thu, May 16, 2013 2:53 am
Subject: Re: That Anne Browne and Margaret Neville were first cousins
I have this Anne but as an illegitimate daughter of Margaret Nevill (based on
Douglas Richardson’s email of 4 Sep 2007 headed: “Possible C.P. Addition:
Margaret Neville's marriage John or Thomas or Robert Horne”)
I suppose the implication of this message is that this Anne was by Horne – have
you another source for this?
I have a little worry that “Horne”, “Browne” and “Downes” would all look pretty
similar in a written document.
Adrian
From: Wjhonson
Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 5:22 AM
Douglas Richardson’s email of 4 Sep 2007 headed: “Possible C.P. Addition:
Margaret Neville's marriage John or Thomas or Robert Horne”)
I suppose the implication of this message is that this Anne was by Horne – have
you another source for this?
I have a little worry that “Horne”, “Browne” and “Downes” would all look pretty
similar in a written document.
Adrian
From: Wjhonson
Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 5:22 AM
To: adri...@btinternet.com ; gen-me...@rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: That Anne Browne and Margaret Neville were first cousins
Subject: Re: That Anne Browne and Margaret Neville were first cousins
I have Margaret Neville as married firstly to Robert Horne
by whom a daughter Anne who m1 James Framlingham (d 1519) and m2 Robert Browne
This Anne was her father's heiress
Margaret secondly married John Mortimer who d.s.p. will proved 1505 when his
heir was his sister Elizabeth Lady de la Warre
by whom a daughter Anne who m1 James Framlingham (d 1519) and m2 Robert Browne
This Anne was her father's heiress
Margaret secondly married John Mortimer who d.s.p. will proved 1505 when his
heir was his sister Elizabeth Lady de la Warre
-----Original Message-----
From: Adrian <adri...@btinternet.com>
To: gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Wed, May 15, 2013 4:39 pm
Subject: Re: That Anne Browne and Margaret Neville were first cousins
From: Adrian <adri...@btinternet.com>
To: gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Wed, May 15, 2013 4:39 pm
Subject: Re: That Anne Browne and Margaret Neville were first cousins
Further details of the connection between Anne and Margaret is given in CP
under Suffolk Vol XIIa page 458 and 459 as corrected by Vol XIV.
Note (g) on page 458 considers a “Notarial attestation of a bull exhibited,
20 Aug. 1529 ...” amongst other things, states that Suffolk’s grandmother
was sister of the father of a former husband of Margaret’s (ac etiam ex eo
avia tua et genitor olim conjugis dictae Margaretae frater et soror fuerant)
I’ve not been able to work this out with the information I have.
I have Suffolks’ grandmothers as (a) Elizabeth dau of Robert Wingfield and
(b) Elizabeth d of Robert Darcy of Maldon, Essex (she m Henry Bruyn and
left Elizabeth who m2 William Brandon. This Bruyn family was not connected
to Anne Browne’s family)
Margaret Nevill married 1stly Sir John Mortimer, m2 (dism) 1507 Charles
Brandon m3 Robert Downes or Downyns.
Perhaps Margaret had another earlier marriage?
Adrian
-----Original Message-----
From: CE Wood
Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 9:39 PM Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
under Suffolk Vol XIIa page 458 and 459 as corrected by Vol XIV.
Note (g) on page 458 considers a “Notarial attestation of a bull exhibited,
20 Aug. 1529 ...” amongst other things, states that Suffolk’s grandmother
was sister of the father of a former husband of Margaret’s (ac etiam ex eo
avia tua et genitor olim conjugis dictae Margaretae frater et soror fuerant)
I’ve not been able to work this out with the information I have.
I have Suffolks’ grandmothers as (a) Elizabeth dau of Robert Wingfield and
(b) Elizabeth d of Robert Darcy of Maldon, Essex (she m Henry Bruyn and
left Elizabeth who m2 William Brandon. This Bruyn family was not connected
to Anne Browne’s family)
Margaret Nevill married 1stly Sir John Mortimer, m2 (dism) 1507 Charles
Brandon m3 Robert Downes or Downyns.
Perhaps Margaret had another earlier marriage?
Adrian
-----Original Message-----
From: CE Wood
Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 9:39 PM Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
GEN-MEDIEV...@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
quotes in the subject and the body of the message
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
GEN-MEDIEV...@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
quotes in the subject and the body of the message
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2013.0.3336 / Virus Database: 3162/6326 - Release Date: 05/15/13
-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GEN-MEDIEV...@rootsweb.com
with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of
the message
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GEN-MEDIEV...@rootsweb.com
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Version: 2013.0.3336 / Virus Database: 3162/6327 - Release Date: 05/15/13
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