Re: Did Florence of Worcester name Bernard de Neufmarche as son in law of Os

[wjho...@aol.com]

But your original question was does Florence name Bernard as son-in-law of
Osbert, and the answer is no.

Dugdale names Bernard as son in law of Griffyn fitz Luwellyn. Cawley has
this stated. You have to work out, using logic, that such a connection
doesn't work, and it must be that a generation is here being skipped. I would
say it's probably just likely that someone in that posting, has confused
Dugdale with Florence.

Right?

Will Johnson

[msallen]

Thanks for persevering with me Will !

I'm probably not explaining myself clearly enough, but I don't have
time to spell the issue out just now. I'll try again tomorrow.

Cheers
Mark

[wjho...@aol.com]

By the way, this issue has come up long ago in the issue of "Lady Godiva".
I wrote up a long article about it here
_http://www.countyhistorian.com/cecilweb/index.php/Lady_Godiva_
(http://www.countyhistorian.com/cecilweb/index.php/Lady_Godiva)

and you can see one of the source citations used by "Living descendents" is
this DNB entry for Bernard Neufmarche. At the end of that entry, I list
all their authorities on his life.

Will Johnson

[msallen]

My interest is not specifically in Bernard de Neufmarche, it is rather
in showing that Osbern fitz Richard was married to Nesta verch
Gruffyd.

It can be shown that Osbern's wife (and his son Hugh's mother) was
called Nesta, and also that Bernard married a (grand)daughter of
Gruffyd called Nesta. However the missing Florence statement is needed
to link these two pieces of information, because otherwise Osbern's
wife could be 'any old Nesta'.

I see that in the Lady Godiva thread back in 2007, a number of people
here concluded that Florence citation could not not be found, but as
that thread was primarily concerned with Godiva, the issue concerning
Osbern's marriage was not followed up.

I had hoped that I had somehow missed the mention in Florence, or that
is was in some obscure lesser chronicle of his that I didn't know
about. However that now seems unlikely.

The claim that Osbern married Gruffyd's daughter originates with Lloyd
in his "History of Wales", and I see no reason why he should have
deliberately fabricated this link (its not just some hopeful Victorian
genealogy), so I believe he may have simply cited the wrong source.

Amongst my scibbled notes, I have a reminder to check out Orderic
Vitalis book VI for a mention of Osbern's daughter's marriage
(although I'm ashamed to admit now that I didn't note where I got this
reference from), so in the hope that this may be Lloyd intended
citation I popped into the university library yesterday evening to
take a look. However their copy is out on loan for a month so I can't
check it yet. If anyone has access to this in the meantime I would be
very grateful for a lookup.

Thanks for the link to your Godiva page Will. If I ever get past my
present conundrum, this will undoubtedly prove useful when looking at
Nesta's ancestry.