C.P. Addition: Parentage of William la Zouche, Archbishop of York (died 1352)
Douglas Richardson
Complete Peerage 12 Pt. 2 (1959): 939, footnote l (sub Zouche) mentions
in passing William la Zouche (died 1352), Archbishop of York, Clerk of
the Wardrobe, Keeper of the Privy Seal, Treasuer of England. No
attempt is made to identify Archbishop la Zouche's parentage. Back in
2003, I posted evidence which I believed showed rather conclusively
that Archbishop la Zouche was a younger son of William la Zouche, Knt.,
1st Lord Zouche of Harringworth (see copy of earlier post below). Lord
Zouche is known to have had a younger son named William who is
specifically named in a settlement dated 1326, along with several other
younger sons including John and Roger [Reference: C.P. 12 Pt. 2
(1959): 940, footnote i]. Now additional evidence has been located
which adds new support for the identification of Archbishop la Zouche
as a younger son of William la Zouche, Knt., 1st Lord Zouche.
In the first two items below, we find that the patrons of the church of
Clipsham, Rutland in 1330 and 1333 were William, John, and Roger la
Zouche, younger sons of William la Zouche, kt., [1st Lord Zouche] of
Harringworth; also that William la Zouche, the future Archbishop,
resigned the church of Clipsham, Rutland in 1330. In the third item
below, we find that in 1349-50 William la Zouche, late Dean of York
(then Archbishop of York) and Roger la Zouche, Knt. (doubtless the
Archbishop's brother named in his will) granted rent in North Witham
and Gunby, Lincolnshire for a chaplain in the parish church of
Clipsham, Rutland. This grant for a chaplain in Clipsham, Rutland by
the Archbishop and his brother is readily explained if Archbishop
William and his brother, Sir Roger la Zouche, are the same persons as
the patrons of Clipsham back in 1330 and 1333.
"1383. Institution of M[aster] Ralph Turvill deacon to church of
Clipsham, Rutland, vacant by the resignation of [Master] William la
Zouche; patron, William, John, and Roger, sons of William la Zouche of
Harringworth. Inq. and ind. official of archdn. Woodstock, 9 May
1330." [Reference: Nicholas Bennett, ed., The Registers of Bishop Henry
Burghersh, 1326-1342, 2 (Lincoln Rec. Soc.90) (2003): 27].
"1470. Institution of William de Osgodby priest, in person of M[aster]
William de Lee, clerk, his proctor, to church of Cllipsham, Rutland,
vacant by the resignation of [Master] Ralph de Turvill; patron,
William, John, and Roger, sons of William la Zouche of Harringworth,
kt. By exchange with church of Haversham. Inq. and ind. official of
archdn. Wooburn, 21 October 1333." [Reference: Nicholas Bennett, ed.,
The Registers of Bishop Henry Burghersh, 1326-1342, 2 (Lincoln Rec.
Soc.90) (2003): 38].
C 143/292/5
Scope and content
William la Zouche, late dean of the church of St. Peter, York, and
Roger la Zouche, knight, to grant rent in North Witham and Gunby,
Lincolnshire to a chaplain in the parish church of Clipsham, Rutland.
The same to grant messuages and land in Lubbesthorpe, Leicestershire to
certain chaplains in the chapel of St. Mary there, the said Roger
retaining land and rent in Lubbesthorpe. Date: 23 Edward III
[1349-1350]. [Reference: National Archives Catalogue]. END OF QUOTE.
In my post back in 2003, I noted that Archbishop William la Zouche was
styled cousin in 1342 by Nicholas de Cantelowe, of Ilkeston, Derbyshire
[Reference: William Dugdale, Monasticon Anglicanum, 6 Pt. 1 (1830):
11]. These two men were related in the 4th and 3rd degree of kindred
(that is, 2nd cousins once removed) by common descent from William de
Cantelowe I as follows:
1. William de Cantelowe I.
2. William de Cantlowe II.
3. Milicent de Cantelowe, wife of Eudes la Zouche.
4. William la Zouche, Knt., 1st Lord Zouche of Harringworth
5. William la Zouche, Archbishop of York
1. William de Cantelowe I.
2. Nicholas de Cantelowe.
3. William de Cantelowe.
4. Nicholas de Cantelowe.
Lastly, it appears that Archbishop William la Zouche had a hitherto
unknown sister who married Sir Robert de Helwell, presumably the
individual of that name who was lord of Hellewell manor in Whissendine,
Rutland in 1350 [see VCH Rutland 2 (1935): 158]. This is indicated by
two items found in the published Papal Registers:
Papal Regs.: Petitions 1 (1896): 20 (Thomas de Helwell, clerk, son of
Robert de Helwell, Knt., styled "nephew" by Archbishop William la
Zouche), 168 (John de Helwell, clerk, styled "kinsman" of
Archbishop William la Zouche).
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
Website: www.royalancestry.net
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + +
COPY OF EARLIER POST
Dear Patricia, John, etc.
With regard to the parentage of William la Zouche, Archbishop of York,
I took the time today to read his biography in the Dictionary of
National Biography (vol. 21, pp. 1335-1338). The writer of the
biography gave the following regarding his parentage, family, and
ancestry:
" ... [He] seems from his close connections with Northamptonshire to
have belonged to the Harringworth branch of the Zouche family, and he
is generally said to have been a younger son of William la Zouche,
first Baron Zouche (1276?-1352)."
"On 21 Aug. of the same year [1335] he was joined with William la
Zouche of Harringworth, possibly his father, to lay before the shires
of Northampton and Rutland the decision of king and council as to the
defenses of the realm"
"In his will he set aside three hundred marks for this purpose, and
directed his executors, one of whom was his brother, Sir Roger la
Zouche, to divide the residue of the property among his kinsfolk,
servants, etc." END OF QUOTE
In regards to the assertion that Archbishop William la Zouche was a
younger son of William la Zouche (died 1352), of Harringworth, co.
Northampton, we know from the above information that the Archbishop
had a brother, Roger. As such, the first test would be to see if
William la Zouche of Harringworth had younger sons named William and
Roger and also to see if the chronology fits for the Archbishop to be
William of Harringworth's son.
In answer to these questions, we find that Complete Peerage 12 pt. 2,
pg. 940, footnote i, shows that William la Zouche (died 1352), 1st
Lord Zouche of Harringworth, was granted a license in 1326 to convey
lands to himself for life, with remainder to his younger children,
they including sons William and Roger.
As for the chronology, we know that William la Zouche's eldest son and
heir, Eudes, was born about 1297-8, he being aged 24 in 1322. As
such, we can suppose that the second son, William [the putative
Archbishop], was born say 1300. Details provided by the biography of
the Archbishop indicate that he first shows up in records in 1328.
This would be in complete agreement with an approximate birthdate of
1300.
Patricia has elsewhere posted a record dated 1328 in which Joan Inge,
the widow of Eudes la Zouche, born 1297-8, conveyed property to
William la Zouche, clerk, which William is almost certainly the future
Archbishop. As indicated above, Eudes la Zouche, husband of Joan
Inge, was the son and heir apparent of William la Zouche, 1st Lord
Zouche of Harringworth.
Elsewhere, I have posted a citation in which Nicholas de Cauntelowe,
lord of Ilkeston, co. Derby, referred to Archbishop William la Zouche
as his "cousin" [Reference: Wiliam Dugdale, Monasticon Anglicanum, 6
Pt. 1
(1830, rev. ed.): 11 (dated 22 Sep. 16 Edward III)]. This kinship is
readily explained if the Archbishop's father was William la Zouche, of
Harrington, as William of Harringworth's mother was a Cantelowe. If
Archbishop was not a son of William la Zouche of Harringworth, it
would be near impossible to explain the kinship between Nicholas de
Cantelowe and the Archbishop.
Given these facts, I conclude that William la Zouche, Archbishop of
York, was a younger son of William la Zouche, 1st Lord Zouche of
Harringworth, by his wife, Maud Lovel.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
E-mail: royalances...@msn.com
CED
Douglas Richardson wrote:
> Dear Newsgroup ~
To the newsgroup:
Two comments below:
CED
> Complete Peerage 12 Pt. 2 (1959): 939, footnote l (sub Zouche) mentions
> in passing William la Zouche (died 1352), Archbishop of York, Clerk of
> the Wardrobe, Keeper of the Privy Seal, Treasuer of England. No
> attempt is made to identify Archbishop la Zouche's parentage.
For those in the group who do not have ready access to the Complete
Peerage, I quote the entire footnote to which Richardson makes
reference as a "mentions in passing." The footnote has a different
purpose and context than that which is implied with his post.
It should be noted that Richardson carelessly uses the word 'hitherto'
as if this were his, and only his, discovery as if nobody ever saw it
before he did. A review of the archives indicates that this is another
of Richardson's 'slip of the word' for his own glory.
mj...@btinternet.com
couldn't see the quotation.
MAR
CED
CED wrote:
> Douglas Richardson wrote:
> > Dear Newsgroup ~
>
>
> To the newsgroup:
>
> Two comments below:
>
> CED
>
> > Complete Peerage 12 Pt. 2 (1959): 939, footnote l (sub Zouche) mentions
> > in passing William la Zouche (died 1352), Archbishop of York, Clerk of
> > the Wardrobe, Keeper of the Privy Seal, Treasuer of England. No
> > attempt is made to identify Archbishop la Zouche's parentage.
>
>
>
> For those in the group who do not have ready access to the Complete
> Peerage, I quote the entire footnote to which Richardson makes
> reference as a "mentions in passing." The footnote has a different
> purpose and context than that which is implied with his post.
Sorry, I slipped. Here is the footnote:
(l) Idem; Cal. Fine Rolls, vol i, p. 410. It is not easy to
distinguish between the four prominent men of this name who fl.
together temp. Edward II and Edward III. They were (i) William (la
Zouche), 1st Lord Zouche (of Haryngworth), who d. 1352; (ii) his
grandson, William la Zouche, of Totnes, b. circa 1321, who suc. him as
2nd Lord Zouche (of Haryngworth); (iii) William (la Zouche formerly de
Mortimer), 1st Lord Zouche (of Richard's Castle, or of Mortimer, or of
Ashby), who d. 1336; and (iv) William la Zouche, Archbishop of York,
who d. 1352. Their names are often lumped together in indexes; indeed
a note in the Record edn. of Parl. Writs (vol. ii, p. 1647) baldly
states that "The appropriation of these entries to Zouche of
Haringworth or Zouche of Ashby, etc. or otherwise, must be left to the
discretion of the reader." Of the above (i) and (iii) are dealt with
in Knights of Edw. I, Harl.Soc., vol. T-Z, as is also another William
la Zouche (d.1287), grandfather of (iii).
CED
Sorry tto.
Here it is:
Chris Phillips
> Complete Peerage 12 Pt. 2 (1959): 939, footnote l (sub Zouche) mentions
> in passing William la Zouche (died 1352), Archbishop of York, Clerk of
> the Wardrobe, Keeper of the Privy Seal, Treasuer of England. No
> attempt is made to identify Archbishop la Zouche's parentage. Back in
> 2003, I posted evidence which I believed showed rather conclusively
> that Archbishop la Zouche was a younger son of William la Zouche, Knt.,
> 1st Lord Zouche of Harringworth (see copy of earlier post below). Lord
> Zouche is known to have had a younger son named William who is
> specifically named in a settlement dated 1326, along with several other
> younger sons including John and Roger [Reference: C.P. 12 Pt. 2
> (1959): 940, footnote i]. Now additional evidence has been located
> which adds new support for the identification of Archbishop la Zouche
> as a younger son of William la Zouche, Knt., 1st Lord Zouche.
Although, as quoted in your previous message, the original edition of the
DNB said that "he is generally said to have been a younger son of William la
Zouche, first Baron Zouche (1276?-1352) of Harringworth", the new edition
differs.
According to the article on archbishop William by Nicholas Bennett, he "was
most likely a son of the Roger la Zouche who died in 1302 holding the manor
of Lubbesthorpe in Leicestershire. If this identification is correct,
William's birth would have taken place some time after 1292-3, the year in
which Roger, the eldest son and heir to the Lubbesthorpe manor, was born. In
1337 the two brothers, William and Roger, founded chantries at Lubbesthorpe
and at Clipsham, Rutland. The future archbishop was a kinsman (but not a
younger son, as has sometimes been supposed) of William, first Lord Zouche
(d. 1352) of Harringworth. It was the baron's mother, Millicent de Monte
Alto, who had granted Lubbesthorpe to Roger la Zouche the elder in 1267-8,
and it was the baron himself who presented the young William to his first
ecclesiastical benefice, the rectory of Clipsham, in 1315."
From this account, I presume the elder Roger, of Lubbesthorpe, is a younger
brother of William, 1st Lord Zouche of Harringworth, so that - according to
this view - the archbishop would be William's nephew.
Chris Phillips
Todd A. Farmerie
> According to the article on archbishop William by Nicholas Bennett, he "was
> most likely a son of the Roger la Zouche who died in 1302 holding the manor
> of Lubbesthorpe in Leicestershire. If this identification is correct,
> William's birth would have taken place some time after 1292-3, the year in
> which Roger, the eldest son and heir to the Lubbesthorpe manor, was born. In
> 1337 the two brothers, William and Roger, founded chantries at Lubbesthorpe
> and at Clipsham, Rutland. The future archbishop was a kinsman (but not a
> younger son, as has sometimes been supposed) of William, first Lord Zouche
> (d. 1352) of Harringworth. It was the baron's mother, Millicent de Monte
> Alto, who had granted Lubbesthorpe to Roger la Zouche the elder in 1267-8,
> and it was the baron himself who presented the young William to his first
> ecclesiastical benefice, the rectory of Clipsham, in 1315."
>
> From this account, I presume the elder Roger, of Lubbesthorpe, is a younger
> brother of William, 1st Lord Zouche of Harringworth, so that - according to
> this view - the archbishop would be William's nephew.
This is not the case. The father of Roger of Lubbesthorpe appears in a
contemporary document as William, while William of H was son of Eudes.
There was a 130-post thread in 2003 beating this around.
taf
Douglas Richardson
Thank you for your good post. Much appreciated.
Regarding the identification of the parentage of Archbishop William la
Zouche (died 1352), there are two pieces of evidence which strongly
indicate his parentage. First and most important, he was styled
"cousin" by Nicholas de Cantelowe, lord of Ilkeston, Derbyshire
[Reference: William Dugdale, Monasticon Anglicanum, 6 Pt. 1 (1830): 11;
citation available online at www.monasticmatrix.com]. This first piece
of evidence seems to have been overlooked by all the sources on
Archbishop la Zouche which I have consulted. It provides an excellent
indication that Archbishop William la Zouche was descended in some
manner from Eudes la Zouche, died 1279, and his wife, Milicent de
Cantelowe, which Milicent was a near kinswoman of Nicholas de
Cantelowe, of Ilkeston, Derbyshire.
Reviewing the family of Eudes and Milicent, we find that their only
proven son, Sir William la Zouche, 1st Lord Zouche of Harringworth
(died 1352), had younger sons, William and Roger, who are the right age
to be the Archbishop and his known brother, Sir Roger la Zouche
[Reference: C.P. 12 Pt. 2 (1959): 940, footnote i].
As for the second good piece of evidence, we now know that sometime
before 1330 William la Zouche, 1st Lord Zouche of Harringworth, settled
the church of Clipsham, Rutland on his younger sons, William, John, and
Roger la Zouche [Reference: Nicholas Bennett, ed., The Registers of
Bishop Henry Burghersh, 1326-1342, 2 (Lincoln Rec. Soc. 90) (2003): 27,
38]. If the Archbishop was the same person as the younger William, he
would have held the church of Clipsham jointly with his brothers, John
and Roger, presumably for the term of their lives. If so, this would
explain why Archbishop William and his brother, Roger, granted rent in
North Witham and Gunby, Lincolnshire in 1349/50 for a chaplain in the
parish church of Clipsham, Rutland. This action would have been taken
because the Archbishop and his brother, Roger, were patrons of the
church there. For evidence that Archbishop la Zouche is the same
person as William la Zouche, late Dean of York, who made the 1349/50
grant, please see B. Jones, Fasti Ecclesiae Anglicanae, 1300-1541, 6
(1963): 6 (sub Deans of York).
Next, according to the biography of Archbishop la Zouche in the old
Dictionary of National Biography, XXI: 1335-1338, the Archbishop
alluded to his parents being alive at the date of his will in 1349.
An abstract of Archbishop la Zouche's will is found in Testamenta
Eboracensia 1 (Surtees Soc. 4) (1836): 55-56. Specifically, the will
requests that the Archbishop's goods["bonorum meorum"] be distributed
to his parents ["parentes"], kinsfolk, servants, etc. We know for a
fact that Archbishop's putative father, William la Zouche, 1st Lord
Zouche of Harringworth, was living in 1349, so that would fit the
Archbishop's will. Complete Peerage 12 Pt. 2 (1959): 940 states that
Lord Zouche's wife, Maud Lovel, died before 1346, but I have not
reviewed the evidence to see if it supports a death date for Maud as
prior to 1346.
With respect to Mr. Bennett's identification of Archbishop la Zouche's
father being Roger la Zouche of Lubbesthorpe, Leicestershire (died
1304), I know of no evidence which suggests that Roger la Zouche of
Lubbesthorpe had a son named William, nor that Roger of Lubbesthorpe
had any connection to the Cantelowe family, nor to Clipsham, Rutland.
Also, Roger la Zouche, of Lubbesthorpe, was dead long before 1349. As
such, it does not seem to me that Mr. Bennett based his identification
of Archbishop la Zouche's parentage on any known evidence, but rather
simply made a guess.
Lastly, as for the placement of Roger la Zouche of Lubbesthorpe in the
Zouche family tree, my research indicates that Roger of Lubbesthorpe
was a younger son of William la Zouche (died 1272), of King's Nympton,
Devon and Norton, Northamptonshire. William la Zouche (died 1272) in
turn was a brother to Eudes la Zouche (died 1279) who married Millicent
de Cantelowe. Roger la Zouche, of Lubbesthorpe, was thus a first
cousin once removed to Archbishop William la Zouche.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
Website: www.royalancestry.net
mj...@btinternet.com
CED schrieb:
> Here it is:
>
> (l) Idem; Cal. Fine Rolls, vol i, p. 410. It is not easy to
> distinguish between the four prominent men of this name who fl.
> together temp. Edward II and Edward III. They were (i) William (la
> Zouche), 1st Lord Zouche (of Haryngworth), who d. 1352; (ii) his
> grandson, William la Zouche, of Totnes, b. circa 1321, who suc. him as
> 2nd Lord Zouche (of Haryngworth); (iii) William (la Zouche formerly de
> Mortimer), 1st Lord Zouche (of Richard's Castle, or of Mortimer, or of
> Ashby), who d. 1336; and (iv) William la Zouche, Archbishop of York,
> who d. 1352. Their names are often lumped together in indexes; indeed
> a note in the Record edn. of Parl. Writs (vol. ii, p. 1647) baldly
> states that "The appropriation of these entries to Zouche of
> Haringworth or Zouche of Ashby, etc. or otherwise, must be left to the
> discretion of the reader." Of the above (i) and (iii) are dealt with
> in Knights of Edw. I, Harl.Soc., vol. T-Z, as is also another William
> la Zouche (d.1287), grandfather of (iii).
Thanks for that - much appreciated. Again, it must be borne in mind
that, while any discussion of the Archbishop's parentage is both
interesting and indeed an addition to CP, CP does not set out to
establish the entire families of peers, but just the succession of
peerages. In a sense, stating that 'on 2 November 2005 it rained in
London' is also a CP Addition (because that statement is not found in
CP) albeit beyond the strict scope of the CP.
Regards
Michael
Chris Phillips
> This is not the case. The father of Roger of Lubbesthorpe appears in a
> contemporary document as William, while William of H was son of Eudes.
> There was a 130-post thread in 2003 beating this around.
Thank you. I should have checked the archives before presuming about Roger's
parentage.
I see there are alternative suggestions to account for Millicent's gift of
Lubbesthorpe to Roger, and for Nicholas de Cauntelowe's cousinhood to the
archbishop.
Chris Phillips
Douglas Richardson
I spent the afternoon yesterday at the library checking additional
records on the Zouche familiy of Harringworth, Northamptonshire, and on
the Zouche family of Lubbesthorpe, Leicestershire. As best I can tell,
there appears to have been two sets of contemporary William la
Zouche's, each with a brother named Roger. Both families had
connections to Clipsham, Rutland, both had lands in Lubbesthorpe,
Leicestershire, and both it seems had a Cantelowe connection. To top
it off, both families seem to have had an intermarriage with the
Mallory family. This is the classical medieval problem of two branches
of the same family using the same given names, only in this case you
have similar ties to the same lands and to similar allied families. In
short, it is a very complicated matter sorting the two families out
from one another in the surviving records.
According to Chris Phillips, the historian Nicholas Bennett has
identified Archbishop William la Zouche in the new Dictionary of
National Biography as "most likely" being a son of Roger la Zouche
(died 1304), of Lubbesthorpe, Leicestershire. I am not aware of what
evidence Mr. Bennett used, but he may well have examined the
Archbishop's unpublished registers and found some evidence there which
sheds some light on the parentage of the Archbishop.
In the meantime, having studied additional records on my own, I can say
I now fully concur with Mr. Bennett's findings. It appears that
Archbishop la Zouche was in fact a younger son of Roger la Zouche (died
1304), of Lubbesthorpe, and not a younger son of William la Zouche,
Knt. (died 1352), 1st Lord Zouche of Harringworth, as I originally
stated. Roger la Zouche (died 1304), of Lubbesthorpe, Leicestershire
was in turn a younger son of William la Zouche (died 1272), of King's
Nympton, Devon and Norton, Northamptonshire. When time permits, I plan
to post my research findings here and on my website.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
Website: www.royalancestry.net
Patricia Junkin
On the death of William la Zouche of Haryngsworth in 1353,
Kylpsham. The manor....held of William de Bohoun, earl of Northumberland, as
of the castle of Okham, by service of a knightąs fee for life only, the
deceased having granted it in remainder to his kinsman William, son of Eudo
la Zouche, and the heirs of his body. He held no other lands &c in the
county.
He died on Sunday before St. Gregory last. Heir as above aged 30 years.
Lincoln. Inq. taken at Staunford 21 Mar 26 E III
He died on Monday, the feast of St. Gregory, 26 E III. William, son of Ivo
la Zouche, aged 30 years is his next heir.
This William was son and heir of Milicent and Eudo la Zouche. His son, Eudo
who married Joan Inge died in 1326 following the murder of Roger Beler. Is
the William of Haryngsworth speaking, then of his grandson, William who m.
Elizabeth de Ros as "his kinsman William, son of Eudo?"
If c 1349-1350] C 143/292/5 William la Zouche, late dean of the church of
St. Peter, York, and Roger la Zouche, knight, to grant rent in North Witham
and Gunby, Lincolnshire to a chaplain in the parish church of Clipsham,
Rutland.The same to grant messuages and land in Lubbesthorpe, Leicestershire
to certain chaplains in the chapel of St. Mary there, the said Roger
retaining land and rent in Lubbesthorpe. Date: 23 Edward III
Lubbesthorpe was acquired by William de Cantilupe in 1253.
Roger la Zouche of Lubbesthorpe is among the witness in 1295 to Edw. I gift
of leave for William de Bois (who held of him in capite) to enfeoff Milicent
de Montalt (who also held of him in capite) in a moiety of the manor of
Thorpe-Ernauld, to the use of her and her heirs, and their assigns. William
de Bois [Bosco] enfeoffed Milicent in all his lands in the counties of
Leicester, Warwick and Northampton.
There is no mention of Lubbesthorpe in Milicent's IPM in 1299.
In 1302 License, in consideraton of a fine made before John de Drokenesford
kingąs clerk supplying the place of the treasurer, by Roger la Zousche, for
the alienation in mortmain by him of a messuage, 30 acres of land, 4 acres
of meadow, and 26s 8d. of rent in Lubesthorpe, and two cartloads of
brushwood (busce) in wood of Lubbesthorpe, to a chaplain to celebrate divine
service in the chapel of St. Peter there daily for the souls of the said
Roger, William la Zouche, his father, and Eudo la Zousche and Milicent his
wife, and all the faithful departed....
1303 William la Zouche of Haryngsworth is overlord of Lubbesthorpe manor,
Leic.
E 3CPR: 1361+ Appointment of Kingąs Sgt. at rms William Spalding to arrest
and bring before the Council William la Zouche of Lubbesthorpe lately
engaged in Kingąs service in Ireland but have not gone
Again, this man is contemporary with William, 2nd Baron Zouche of
Haryngsworth but would he have been referred to as of Lubbesthorpe?
For me, the mystery remains.
Pat
----------
>From: "Douglas Richardson" <royala...@msn.com>
>To: GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com
>Subject: C.P. Addition: Parentage of William la Zouche, Archbishop of York
(died 1352)
>Date: Fri, Nov 4, 2005, 4:22 AM
>
> Dear Newsgroup ~
>
> Complete Peerage 12 Pt. 2 (1959): 939, footnote l (sub Zouche) mentions
> in passing William la Zouche (died 1352), Archbishop of York, Clerk of
> the Wardrobe, Keeper of the Privy Seal, Treasurer of England. No
> attempt is made to identify Archbishop la Zouche's parentage. Back in
> 2003, I posted evidence which I believed showed rather conclusively
> that Archbishop la Zouche was a younger son of William la Zouche, Knt.,
> 1st Lord Zouche of Harringworth (see copy of earlier post below). Lord
> Zouche is known to have had a younger son named William who is
> specifically named in a settlement dated 1326, along with several other
> younger sons including John and Roger [Reference: C.P. 12 Pt. 2
> (1959): 940, footnote i]. Now additional evidence has been located
> which adds new support for the identification of Archbishop la Zouche
> as a younger son of William la Zouche, Knt., 1st Lord Zouche.
>
> In the first two items below, we find that the patrons of the church of
> Clipsham, Rutland in 1330 and 1333 were William, John, and Roger la
> Zouche, younger sons of William la Zouche, kt., [1st Lord Zouche] of
> Harringworth; also that William la Zouche, the future Archbishop,
> resigned the church of Clipsham, Rutland in 1330. In the third item
> below, we find that in 1349-50 William la Zouche, late Dean of York
> (then Archbishop of York) and Roger la Zouche, Knt. (doubtless the
> Archbishop's brother named in his will) granted rent in North Witham
> and Gunby, Lincolnshire for a chaplain in the parish church of
> Clipsham, Rutland. This grant for a chaplain in Clipsham, Rutland by
> the Archbishop and his brother is readily explained if Archbishop
> William and his brother, Sir Roger la Zouche, are the same persons as
> the patrons of Clipsham back in 1330 and 1333.
>
> "1383. Institution of M[aster] Ralph Turvill deacon to church of
> Clipsham, Rutland, vacant by the resignation of [Master] William la
> Zouche; patron, William, John, and Roger, sons of William la Zouche of
> Harringworth. Inq. and ind. official of archdn. Woodstock, 9 May
> 1330." [Reference: Nicholas Bennett, ed., The Registers of Bishop Henry
> Burghersh, 1326-1342, 2 (Lincoln Rec. Soc.90) (2003): 27].
>
> "1470. Institution of William de Osgodby priest, in person of M[aster]
> William de Lee, clerk, his proctor, to church of Cllipsham, Rutland,
> vacant by the resignation of [Master] Ralph de Turvill; patron,
> William, John, and Roger, sons of William la Zouche of Harringworth,
> kt. By exchange with church of Haversham. Inq. and ind. official of
> archdn. Wooburn, 21 October 1333." [Reference: Nicholas Bennett, ed.,
> The Registers of Bishop Henry Burghersh, 1326-1342, 2 (Lincoln Rec.
> Soc.90) (2003): 38].
>
> C 143/292/5
> Scope and content
> William la Zouche, late dean of the church of St. Peter, York, and
> Roger la Zouche, knight, to grant rent in North Witham and Gunby,
> Lincolnshire to a chaplain in the parish church of Clipsham, Rutland.
> The same to grant messuages and land in Lubbesthorpe, Leicestershire to
> certain chaplains in the chapel of St. Mary there, the said Roger
> retaining land and rent in Lubbesthorpe. Date: 23 Edward III
> [1349-1350]. [Reference: National Archives Catalogue]. END OF QUOTE.
>
> In my post back in 2003, I noted that Archbishop William la Zouche was
> styled cousin in 1342 by Nicholas de Cantelowe, of Ilkeston, Derbyshire
> [Reference: William Dugdale, Monasticon Anglicanum, 6 Pt. 1 (1830):
> 11]. These two men were related in the 4th and 3rd degree of kindred
> (that is, 2nd cousins once removed) by common descent from William de
> Cantelowe I as follows:
>
> 1. William de Cantelowe I.
> 2. William de Cantlowe II.
> 3. Milicent de Cantelowe, wife of Eudes la Zouche.
> 4. William la Zouche, Knt., 1st Lord Zouche of Harringworth
> 5. William la Zouche, Archbishop of York
>
> 1. William de Cantelowe I.
> 2. Nicholas de Cantelowe.
> 3. William de Cantelowe.
> 4. Nicholas de Cantelowe.
>
> Lastly, it appears that Archbishop William la Zouche had a hitherto
> unknown sister who married Sir Robert de Helwell, presumably the
> individual of that name who was lord of Hellewell manor in Whissendine,
> Rutland in 1350 [see VCH Rutland 2 (1935): 158]. This is indicated by
> two items found in the published Papal Registers:
>
> Papal Regs.: Petitions 1 (1896): 20 (Thomas de Helwell, clerk, son of
> Robert de Helwell, Knt., styled "nephew" by Archbishop William la
> Zouche), 168 (John de Helwell, clerk, styled "kinsman" of
> Archbishop William la Zouche).
>
> Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
>
> Website: www.royalancestry.net
>
> + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
> COPY OF EARLIER POST
> Dear Patricia, John, etc.
>
> With regard to the parentage of William la Zouche, Archbishop of York,
> I took the time today to read his biography in the Dictionary of
> National Biography (vol. 21, pp. 1335-1338). The writer of the
> biography gave the following regarding his parentage, family, and
> ancestry:
>
> " ... [He] seems from his close connections with Northamptonshire to
> have belonged to the Harringworth branch of the Zouche family, and he
> is generally said to have been a younger son of William la Zouche,
> as his "cousin" [Reference: Wiliam Dugdale, Monasticon Anglicanum, 6
> Pt. 1
> (1830, rev. ed.): 11 (dated 22 Sep. 16 Edward III)]. This kinship is
> readily explained if the Archbishop's father was William la Zouche, of
> Harrington, as William of Harringworth's mother was a Cantelowe. If
> Archbishop was not a son of William la Zouche of Harringworth, it
> would be near impossible to explain the kinship between Nicholas de
> Cantelowe and the Archbishop.
>
> Given these facts, I conclude that William la Zouche, Archbishop of
> York, was a younger son of William la Zouche, 1st Lord Zouche of
> Harringworth, by his wife, Maud Lovel.
>
> Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
>
> E-mail: royalances...@msn.com
>