Fw: James Cudworth's Machell connection now published in Jewels of the Crown newsletter
Leo
Many thanks for the two URLs, they are very interesting and I spent some
time perusing them.
A few observations.
In his message Nicholas Donnell Ward observes that no gateway ancestors are
required to join. Yet on the proposal form for membership is asked the name
of a Colonial Ancestor.
In the minutes of the 70th annual meeting and dinner is mentioned the
President-General of the Order of the Merovingian Dynasty. Can you tell more
about this organisation? Do they show descendants of the Merovingian
Dynasty?
On page 7 is an entry "Gateways" of the 19th and 20th Centuries. This entry
and the previous one are ended by a plug for the works of Gary Boyd
Roberts, Douglas Richardson and Frederick L. Weiss.
I found it a little disappointing that no mention was made of Genealogics.
In the above mentioned works usually only a straight line of descend is
shown, Gary Boyd Roberts in general avoids dates. Douglas Richardson is much
more generous in that regards. Still, how many ancestors of the individuals
can be found in the above mentioned works? Lets be generous and say at least
100. But still at the bottom is said: For more detailed accounts of the
royal ancestry of these individuals, readers are encouraged to
consult.......the above mentioned works.
Only ten individuals are mentioned in this "Gateways" and for one person I
challenge that any lineage is known. Not even the parents of that person I
could find, even though this person is mentioned in A.C. Addington's "The
Royal House of Stuart".
1.Winston Frederick Churchill Guest (1906-1982) descendant of Henry VII,
King of England.
=== Lets keep in mind the 100 ancestors available in the above mentioned
sources. In Genealogics 18,648 ancestors can be found.
Henry VII is not the first royal ancestor, it is James IV, King of Scots.
2.Lady Carolyn Elizabetyh Ann Townsend (1940- ) descendant of William IV,
King of Great Britain.
== Genealogics has 22,830 ancestors for her.
3.Rupert Everett (1959- ) descendant of Charles II, King of England.
===Genealogics has 15,055 ancestors for him.
4.Lady Jeanne (Jane?) Louise Campbell (1928-2007), descendant of Henry VII,
King of England.
====I have James V, King of Scots as first royal ancestor. Genealogics has
16,503 ancestors for her.
5.David Mackenzie Ogilvy (1911-1999) descendant of James V, King of Scots
==== Genealogics has 8,521 ancestors for him.
6.Evangeline Bell (I have no dates for her), descendant of Edward IV, King
of England
==== Genealogics has 5,117 ancestors for her
7.Josiah Ralph Patrick Wedgewood (1924- ), descendant of Edward III, King of
England
======= Genealogics has 6,447 ancestors for him
8.Agnes Elizabeth Winona Leclerq Joy (1840-1912) descendant of James I, King
of England (and Scotland).
===== As far as I know, her parents are unknown. She appears in each of Gary
Boyd Robert's 500 and 600 Immigrants twice, but only because her two
husbands have royal ancestors, apparently she does not.
9.Lady Caroline Maureen Hamilton-Temple-Blackwood (1931-) descendant of
Charles II, King of England
==== Genealogics has 19,362 ancestors for her
10.Hon.Jessica Lucy Freeman-Mitford (1917-1996) descendant of Charles II,
King of England
==== Genealogics has 17,086 ancestors for her.
Of these ten, one doesn't belong in this list and two do not give the first
Royal ancestor which appears to be the intention.
And as far as "a more detailed account of the royal ancestry" I think
Genealogics is a better place to visit :-)
With best wishes
Leo van de Pas,
Canberra, Australia
----- Original Message -----
From: "Douglas Richardson" <royala...@msn.com>
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval,soc.history.medieval
To: <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 8:11 AM
Subject: James Cudworth's Machell connection now published in Jewels of the
Crown newsletter
> Dear Dave ~
>
> Thanks for posting the weblink to the Machell book. Much appreciated.
>
> An ancestral line of the immigrant, Major James Cudworth (died 1682),
> of Massachusetts written by me is available in the new issue of the
> publication, Jewels of the Crown [Fall 2009]. Jewels of the Crown is
> the official newsletter for the organization, Order of the Crown of
> Charlemagne. The Cudworth material in the newsletter features Major
> Cudworth's Machell ancestry. It may be viewed at pages 4 through 6 of
> the newsletter at the following weblink:
>
> http://www.charlemagne.org/Jewels%2010-29-09.pdf
>
> Those interested in joining the Order of the Crown of Charlemagne may
> do so by contacting the group's Registrar General, Tracy Ashley
> Crocker, at the following address:
>
> 14115 41st Avenue North, Plymouth, MN 55446.
>
> Mr. Crocker's phone number is
>
> 763 553-1100
>
> The genealogist for the organization is Timothy Field Beard, F.A.S.G.
>
> The home page for the organization is found at the following weblink:
>
> http://www.charlemagne.org/index.htm
>
> Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
>
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> GEN-MEDIEV...@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
> quotes in the subject and the body of the message
lma...@att.net
Did you notice this statement in the Society's newsletter?:
Timothy Field Beard wrote in Volume Two of Pedigrees of Some of
Emperor Charlemagne’s Descendants (1974)
“It should be noted that Americans whose ancestors came from
continental Europe in the colonial period and the 19th Century are
unlikely to easily delineated descent from Charlemagne in their
background. There was a separation of classes in Europe and the blood
of the rulers seldom flowed legitimately into the blood of the
nobility and commoners.”
This idea about England vs. Continental Europe is doubtless taken from
Anthony Wagner's book, English Genealogy.
And here's the reality of it:
"But recently no less than six gateway ancestors appear in Tracy’s
compilation that came from France (3) and Scandinavia (3) in the 19th
Century."
Leslie
M Sjostrom
"...the blood of the rulers seldom flowed legitimately into the blood of the
nobility...."
then I must wonder alternatively about Beard's touch with reality or about
his ignorance.
Although there was a separation of classes in continental Europe, still the
demarcation between rulers and nobility was not that high - plenty of nobles
descended directly from various rulers, and quite often via fully legitimate
births. Although usually not from those rulers who flourished within as
short a time as a century before that noble.
Commoners is a different point in this. Although, quite much of the failure
to prove noble blood flowing legitimately into blood of commoners, actually
seems to be due to records not existing or missing, although many commoners
could have had legitimate blood from nobility.
lma...@att.net
On Dec 7, 6:42 pm, M Sjostrom <mqs...@gmail.com> wrote:
> if Timothy Field Beard really expresses the following:
> "...the blood of the rulers seldom flowed legitimately into the blood of the
> nobility...."
> then I must wonder alternatively about Beard's touch with reality or about
> his ignorance.
--------- This idea is based on statements made by Anthony Wagner.
Many persons believe its true, especially those who are totally
unfamiliar
with records & lineages in continental Europe, Scandinavia or other
places.
Their implication is that England was more advanced / democratic,
or something to that effect.
> Although there was a separation of classes in continental Europe, still the
> demarcation between rulers and nobility was not that high - plenty of nobles
> descended directly from various rulers, and quite often via fully legitimate
> births. Although usually not from those rulers who flourished within as
> short a time as a century before that noble.
> Commoners is a different point in this. Although, quite much of the failure
> to prove noble blood flowing legitimately into blood of commoners, actually
> seems to be due to records not existing or missing, although many commoners
> could have had legitimate blood from nobility.
This is a correct analysis of the situation.
Perhaps in 100 years, researchers in the Anglo Saxon world will figure
it out.
Leslie