PLUMPTON: of Yorkshire, Eng.
Barbarossa
Bunnell > Plumb > Norton >>> Plumpton
I found that there was a gap in the Plumpton line in the mid-1300s. This
line MAY connect to the De Ros line through Sir Robert de Plumpton, Lord
of Plumpton (d. 1325) and his wife Lucy de Ros (c. 1264 - aft. 1332)
daughter of Sir William de Ros and Eustache Fitz-Hugh.
I know that framework of many of these Trees I have found are in error.
Can anyone help with confirmation or references to the Plumpton line?
Thanks
--
______________B_a_r_b_a_r_o_s_s_a_______________ ;^{>
Wayne B. Hewitt Encinitas, CA whe...@ucsd.edu
Kay Allen AG
I descend from a Norton family of Connecticut in several different lines
and am not aware of any genuine descent from the Plumptons. Much
spurious ancestry has been attributed to this family however.
Would you please outline the ascent from the Nortons back to Plumpton.
Then we can be of better assistance.
Thank you very much.
Kay Allen AG
Barbarossa
>> While reviewing some lines out of old Connecticut:
>> I found that there was a gap in the Plumpton line in the mid-1300s. This
>> line MAY connect to the De Ros line through Sir Robert de Plumpton, Lord
>> of Plumpton (d. 1325) and his wife Lucy de Ros (c. 1264 - aft. 1332)
>> daughter of Sir William de Ros and Eustache Fitz-Hugh.
In article <3764F8...@pacbell.net>, all...@pacbell.net (Kay Allen AG) wrote:
>I descend from a Norton family of Connecticut in several different lines
>and am not aware of any genuine descent from the Plumptons. Much
>spurious ancestry has been attributed to this family however.
>
>Would you please outline the ascent from the Nortons back to Plumpton.
>Then we can be of better assistance.
Quick, Short Outline:
Gershom Bunnell (1707 - 1758) CT
Hannah Plumb (1677 - 1716) CT
Elizabeth Norton (1650 - 1712) CT
John Norton (~1622-28 - 1709) Eng,CT
Richard Norton (1595-00 - 1652/3) Kent, England
William Norton (1558 - 1622) Kent. England
Richard Norton (1526 - 1565/6) Bedfordshire, England
John Norton (Conyers (?)) (~1483 - 1428-75 (?)) Bedfordshire, England
John Norton (Conyers (?)) (~1458 -1520) Norton-Conyers, Yorkshire
Jane Pigot (1431 - 1488) Norton-Conyers, Yorkshire
Margaret Plumpton (~1408 - 1435-02 (?)) Plumpton, Yorkshire
Robert Plumpton (1354-82 (?) - 1421) Plumpton, Yorkshire
???? Plumpton (Okay, this is the gap to:)
William de Plumpton (~1285 - 1362)
Robert de Plumpton ( - 1325) & Lucy de Ros (~1264 - aft. 1332)
The 'hypothetical' Plumpton son did have a sister (Alice, I believe) as
reported as an ancestor of John Steel Gordon:
<http://www.parsonstech.com/genealogy/trees/jgordon/jsgordon.htm>
Thanks,
P. Freeman
>
>I found that there was a gap in the Plumpton line in the mid-1300s. This
>line MAY connect to the De Ros line through Sir Robert de Plumpton, Lord
>of Plumpton (d. 1325) and his wife Lucy de Ros (c. 1264 - aft. 1332)
>daughter of Sir William de Ros and Eustache Fitz-Hugh.
>
>Can anyone help with confirmation or references to the Plumpton line?
>
>Thanks
For this family, you might want to check the following :
Author Foster, Joseph, 1844-1905
Title Pedigrees of the county families of Yorkshire ; compiled by
Joseph Foster and authenticated by the members of each family
Imprint London : W. W. Head, 1874
The Plumptons should be in Vol. 2 (North and East Ridings)
Regards
Peter Freeman
University of Leeds
Kay Allen AG
>
> Barbarossa wrote:
> >> While reviewing some lines out of old Connecticut:
>
>
> >> I found that there was a gap in the Plumpton line in the mid-1300s. This
> >> line MAY connect to the De Ros line through Sir Robert de Plumpton, Lord
> >> of Plumpton (d. 1325) and his wife Lucy de Ros (c. 1264 - aft. 1332)
> >> daughter of Sir William de Ros and Eustache Fitz-Hugh.
>
I am extremely suspicious of this lineage. To have Nortons in Kent,
Bedfordshire, and Yorkshire is highly unlikely.
The Herald and Genealogist III:276 etseq. has an article onthe Nortons
of Sharpenhoe, Bedfordshire, from whence Thomas of Guilford is supposed
to issue. P. 281: "In his 'Miscellaneous Notes' Mr.Whitmore alludes to
the Nortons of Norton Conyers in Yorkshire, and to others of the name in
Kent. We apprehend that none of these had any relationship to those of
Sharpenhoe." It goes on to cite the diffenerences in coat armour.
I believe that, instead of worrying about Plumpton, that you concentrate
on proving, generation by generation, back from Elizabeth Norton who
married the Plumb.
Where exactly in Connecticut were your Nortns located? And what sources
have you been using?
I will help if I can.
Kay Allen AG
Kay Allen AG
I have just come across a post to this group by Cristopher Nash dated 24
June 1997.
It mentions Walter Whittlesey Norton, Some Descendants of John Norton of
Branford 1622-1709 (1909). These dates seem to match those in your post.
He then goes on to cite TAG(The American Genealogist) 15(#4):193-207)[an
article by Herbert Seversmith] and TAG 54:178-80 and 56:170-2 [articles
by Douglas Richardson of this list].
These may be the solution to you problems.
Kay Allen AG
Renia Simmonds
access if you need it), but the Nortons of Norton Conyers did have branches in Kent.
Renia
Kay Allen AG
Yes, but they didn't connect with Bedfordshire.
Kay Allen AG
Barbarossa
whe...@ucsd.edu (Barbarossa) wrote:
While reviewing some lines out of old Connecticut:
Bunnell > Plumb > Norton >>>Pigot > Plumpton
I found that there was a gap in the Plumpton line in the mid-1300s. This
line MAY connect to the De Ros line through Sir Robert de Plumpton, Lord
of Plumpton (d. 1325) and his wife Lucy de Ros (c. 1264 - aft. 1332)
daughter of Sir William de Ros and Eustache Fitz-Hugh.
***
Peter Freeman of University of Leeds wrote:
For this family, you might want to check the following :
Author Foster, Joseph, 1844-1905
Title Pedigrees of the county families of Yorkshire; compiled by
Joseph Foster and authenticated by the members of each family
Imprint London : W. W. Head, 1874
The Plumptons should be in Vol. 2 (North and East Ridings)
***
Kay Allen AG <all...@pacbell.net> wrote:
I descend from a Norton family of Connecticut in several different lines
and am not aware of any genuine descent from the Plumptons. Much spurious
ancestry has been attributed to this family however.
Would you please outline the ascent from the Nortons back to Plumpton.
Then we can be of better assistance.
***
Barbarossa wrote:
An Expanded, Short, Ancestor Outline:
Gershom Bunnell (1707 - 1758) New Haven, CT
Hannah Plumb (1677 - 1716) Milford, CT
+ Benjamin Bunnell (1679 - 1749) New Haven, CT
Elizabeth Norton (1650 - 1712) Branford, CT
+ John Plumb (1646 - 1727/8) Milford, CT
John Norton (~1622-28 - 1709) London, Eng., & Branford, CT
+ Dorothy ??? (~1623 - bef 6 Nov 1657) Bedfordshre, & Branford, CT
Richard Norton (1595-00 - 1652/3) Sharpenow, Kent, England
+ Ellen Rowley (~1600 - bef. 24 Nov 1603) Saffron Walden, Kent
[Up to here, people may be found in such records as "Conn. Genealogies."
The following (for me) are more problematic:)
William Norton (1558 - 1622) Kent, England
+ Dionesia Cholmesky [!?] (~1570? - ???) Kent, England
Richard Norton (1526 - 1565/6) Bedfordshire, England
+ Margery Wingate(~1528 - 1572) Strethley, Bedforshire, England
John Norton (Conyers (?)) (~1483 - 1428-75 (?)) Bedfordshire, England
+ Jane Cooper (~1485 - ???) Sharpenow, Bedforshire, England
John Norton (Conyers (?)) (~1458 -1520) Norton-Conyers, Yorkshire
+ Margaret Ward (~1459 - 1520) Givendale, Yorkshire
Jane Pigot (1431 - 1488) Norton-Conyers, Yorkshire
+ John Norton (~1427 - 1489) Norton-Conyers, Yorkshire
Margaret Plumpton (~1408 - 1435-02 (?)) Plumpton, Yorkshire
+ Randolph Pigot (~1399 - 1466) Clotheram, Yorkshire
Robert Plumpton (1354-82 (?) - 1421) Plumpton, Yorkshire ???? Plumpton
(Okay, this is the gap to:)
William de Plumpton (~1285 - 1362)
+ Christian(a) [Mowbray??] (??? - ~1365)
Robert de Plumpton ( - 1325)
+ Lucy de Ros (~1264 - aft. 1332)
The 'hypothetical' Plumpton son did have a sister (Alice, I believe) as
reported as an ancestor of John Steel Gordon:
http://www.parsonstech.com/genealogy/trees/jgordon/jsgordon.htm
***
Kay Allen, AG replied:
" I am extremely suspicious of this lineage. To have Nortons in Kent,
Bedfordshire, and Yorkshire is highly unlikely.
The Herald and Genealogist III:276 etseq. has an article on the Nortons of
Sharpenhoe, Bedfordshire, from whence Thomas of Guilford is supposed to
issue. P. 281: "In his 'Miscellaneous Notes' Mr.Whitmore alludes to the
Nortons of Norton-Conyers in Yorkshire, and to others of the name in Kent.
We apprehend that none of these had any relationship to those of
Sharpenhoe." It goes on to cite the differences in coat armour.
I believe that, instead of worrying about Plumpton, that you concentrate
on proving, generation by generation, back from Elizabeth Norton who
married the Plumb."
***
Renia Simmonds <PSim...@cwcom.net> wrote
"Can't quite remember the source, (but probably the Causes of Saints which
I could
access if you need it), but the Nortons of Norton-Conyers did have
branches in Kent."
***
Kay Allen AG replied:
"Yes, but they didn't connect with Bedfordshire."
And added:
"I have just come across a post to this group by Cristopher Nash dated 24
June 1997.
It mentions Walter Whittlesey Norton, Some Descendants of John Norton of
Branford 1622-1709 (1909). These dates seem to match those in your post.
He then goes on to cite TAG(The American Genealogist) 15(#4):193-207)[an
article by Herbert Seversmith] and TAG 54:178-80 and 56:170-2 [articles
by Douglas Richardson of this list].
***
Barbarossa Replies:
This is indeed the correct Norton branch, of Branford, CT. I have added a
little more info to the ancestor outline to see if the errors become a
little more glaring. I will see if I can drag up the article on DejaNews,
and will go back to check whatever references I have (which are few ;^) I
am not sure that I have local access to copies of TAG. I don't suppose
they put them on a webpage archive?
Kay Allen AG
Kay Allen AG
Barbarossa wrote:
>
> (A copy of this message has also been posted to the following newsgroups:
> soc.genealogy.medieval)
>
> The Story So Far:
>
> whe...@ucsd.edu (Barbarossa) wrote:
> While reviewing some lines out of old Connecticut:
>
> Bunnell > Plumb > Norton >>>Pigot > Plumpton
>
> I found that there was a gap in the Plumpton line in the mid-1300s. This
> line MAY connect to the De Ros line through Sir Robert de Plumpton, Lord
> of Plumpton (d. 1325) and his wife Lucy de Ros (c. 1264 - aft. 1332)
> daughter of Sir William de Ros and Eustache Fitz-Hugh.
> ***Kay Allen AG <all...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> I descend from a Norton family of Connecticut in several different lines
> and am not aware of any genuine descent from the Plumptons. Much spurious
> ancestry has been attributed to this family however.
> Would you please outline the ascent from the Nortons back to Plumpton.
> Then we can be of better assistance.
> ***
>
> Barbarossa wrote:
> An Expanded, Short, Ancestor Outline:
>
> Gershom Bunnell (1707 - 1758) New Haven, CT
> Hannah Plumb (1677 - 1716) Milford, CT
> + Benjamin Bunnell (1679 - 1749) New Haven, CT
> Elizabeth Norton (1650 - 1712) Branford, CT
> + John Plumb (1646 - 1727/8) Milford, CT
> John Norton (~1622-28 - 1709) London, Eng., & Branford, CT
> + Dorothy ??? (~1623 - bef 6 Nov 1657) Bedfordshre, & Branford, CT
> Richard Norton (1595-00 - 1652/3) Sharpenow, Kent, England
> + Ellen Rowley (~1600 - bef. 24 Nov 1603) Saffron Walden, Kent
>
> [Up to here, people may be found in such records as "Conn. Genealogies."
Your last accurate ancestor is John Norton of Branford. He is not son of
Richard Norton and Ellen Rowley. To show you how bollixed this is,
Sharpenhoe is in Bedfordshire and not Kent! Saffron Waldon is in Essex,
not Kent! This is a further butchered version of the inaccurate
pedigree which has been given for Thomas of Guilford.
> The following (for me) are more problematic:)
This is the false continuation of above
>
> William Norton (1558 - 1622) Kent, England
Usually given as of Bedfordshire.
> + Dionesia Cholmesky [!?] (~1570? - ???) Kent, She is given as Cholmsby of Bedfordshire.
> Richard Norton (1526 - 1565/6) Bedfordshire, England
> + Margery Wingate(~1528 - 1572) Strethley, Bedforshire, England
> John Norton (Conyers (?)) (~1483 - 1428-75 (?)) Bedfordshire, England
> + Jane Cooper (~1485 - ???) Sharpenow, Bedforshire, England
> John Norton (Conyers (?)) (~1458 -1520) Norton-Conyers, Yorkshire
> + Margaret Ward (~1459 - 1520) Givendale, Yorkshire
> Jane Pigot (1431 - 1488) Norton-Conyers, Yorkshire
> + John Norton (~1427 - 1489) Norton-Conyers, Yorkshire
> Margaret Plumpton (~1408 - 1435-02 (?)) Plumpton, Yorkshire
> + Randolph Pigot (~1399 - 1466) Clotheram, Yorkshire
> Robert Plumpton (1354-82 (?) - 1421) Plumpton, Yorkshire ???? Plumpton
This is all inapplicable as ancestry for your John.
And added:
> "I have just come across a post to this group by Cristopher Nash dated 24
> June 1997.
> It mentions Walter Whittlesey Norton, Some Descendants of John Norton of
> Branford 1622-1709 (1909). These dates seem to match those in your post.
> He then goes on to cite TAG(The American Genealogist) 15(#4):193-207)[an
> article by Herbert Seversmith] and TAG 54:178-80 and 56:170-2 [articles
> by Douglas Richardson of this list].
> ***
>
> Barbarossa Replies:
> This is indeed the correct Norton branch, of Branford, CT. I have added a
> little more info to the ancestor outline to see if the errors become a
> little more glaring. I will see if I can drag up the article on DejaNews,
> and will go back to check whatever references I have (which are few ;^) I
> am not sure that I have local access to copies of TAG. I don't suppose
> they put them on a webpage archive?
> --
> ______________B_a_r_b_a_r_o_s_s_a_______________ ;^{>
> Wayne B. Hewitt Encinitas, CA whe...@ucsd.edu
You can get copies of TAG or copies of articles by writing
David L. Greene PhD, ed.
The American Genealogist
PO Box 398
Demorest, Georgia 30535-0398
Kay Allen AG
Todd A. Farmerie
>
>
> Barbarossa wrote:
> >
>
> Usually given as of Bedfordshire.
> > + Dionesia Cholmesky [!?] (~1570? - ???) Kent, She is given as Cholmsby of Bedfordshire.
Cholmesley - she wasn't polish.
> > Richard Norton (1526 - 1565/6) Bedfordshire, England
> > + Margery Wingate(~1528 - 1572) Strethley, Bedforshire, England
> > John Norton (Conyers (?)) (~1483 - 1428-75 (?)) Bedfordshire, England
> > + Jane Cooper (~1485 - ???) Sharpenow, Bedforshire, England
The break here is obvious from a look at the counties above (Beds) and
below (Yorks). This John Norton (not Conyers) married to Jane Cooper is
the earliest the pedigree can be traced with any hope of reliability (if
I recall correctly, the Visitation regarding this family begins with
John). Before this generation, the invention begins, although it is
usually a Norville als. Norton invention rather than a Norton-Conyers
one.
> > John Norton (Conyers (?)) (~1458 -1520) Norton-Conyers, Yorkshire
> > + Margaret Ward (~1459 - 1520) Givendale, Yorkshire
> > Jane Pigot (1431 - 1488) Norton-Conyers, Yorkshire
> > + John Norton (~1427 - 1489) Norton-Conyers, Yorkshire
> > Margaret Plumpton (~1408 - 1435-02 (?)) Plumpton, Yorkshire
> > + Randolph Pigot (~1399 - 1466) Clotheram, Yorkshire
> > Robert Plumpton (1354-82 (?) - 1421) Plumpton, Yorkshire ???? Plumpton
So even if you could prove the immigrant John Norton was of the
Sharpenhoe Norton family, you still don't have a valid Plumpton line.
taf
Cristopher Nash
thread just now, but want to say that William L. Norton
<wl...@worldnet.att.net> is actively engaged in unravelling and restitching
the patchwork of past Norton studies mentioned in Kay's posting. (I haven't
even had time to answer you, Bill - forgive me - but message is coming!)
I'm hoping, with Kay, that Douglas R will join in -- I think Bill Norton
may have some ideas they might well get their heads together about.
Sorry not to be more helpful at the moment.
Cris
---------------------------
>> William Norton (1558 - 1622) Kent, England
>
>Usually given as of Bedfordshire.
>> + Dionesia Cholmesky [!?] (~1570? - ???) Kent, She is given as
>>Cholmsby of Bedfordshire.
>> Richard Norton (1526 - 1565/6) Bedfordshire, England
>> + Margery Wingate(~1528 - 1572) Strethley, Bedforshire, England
>> John Norton (Conyers (?)) (~1483 - 1428-75 (?)) Bedfordshire, England
>> + Jane Cooper (~1485 - ???) Sharpenow, Bedforshire, England
>> John Norton (Conyers (?)) (~1458 -1520) Norton-Conyers, Yorkshire
>> + Margaret Ward (~1459 - 1520) Givendale, Yorkshire
>> Jane Pigot (1431 - 1488) Norton-Conyers, Yorkshire
>> + John Norton (~1427 - 1489) Norton-Conyers, Yorkshire
>> Margaret Plumpton (~1408 - 1435-02 (?)) Plumpton, Yorkshire
>> + Randolph Pigot (~1399 - 1466) Clotheram, Yorkshire
>> Robert Plumpton (1354-82 (?) - 1421) Plumpton, Yorkshire ???? Plumpton
>