Schenck Royal Gateway van Nydeck
joe
Netherlands, and his daughter married Adrian Ryerse, leading to many
American descendants.
It has long been known that the Schenck ancestry winds its way back for
many centuries in the Old World, and the primary work on these Schenks,
published in not in English in 1860, "Geschichte der Familie Schenck
von Nydeggen : insbesondere des kriegsobristen Martin Schenk von
Nydeggen". In the past, I have only been able to extract tidbits by
typing sections into babbelfish translator.
The work is significant, spending an enormous amount of pages on the
very numerous legal battles of the Schenck family, Lords of Afferden,
generation after generation in much detail. One thing that had
slipped my notice was pointed out by an "Internet Tree" in their
comments. They note the following footnote in the work:
"1) Arßen [Arcen, Netherlands], Schloß und Herrlichkeit, soll, wie
uns van de Sande in seinem Commentar S. I. mittheilt, ein Sonnenlehen
gewesen sein, während das Lehnbuch des Herzogthums Geldern "dat huys
ende dorp tot Arseen mit den Gerichte daerto behorende, hoge ende
lege", als Lehn aufzählt. --- Als Herr von Arßen wird uns zuerst Otto
von Büren 1355, genannt; 1390 empfängt Johann von Büren, Sohn
Johanns die Belehnung, obschon das Gut entweder wegen versäumter
Lehnerhebung oder aus andern Gründen dem Herzoge verfallen war. Herzog
Reinald von Jülich und Geldern vermählte den genannten Johann von
Büren mit seiner Nichte Maria, Tochter seines verstorbenen Bruders,
des Herzogs Wilhelm von Geldern, und gab ihm 1402 am 20. April zur
erblichen Aussteuer "das Schloß und Herrlichkeit von Aerßen mit
Büschen und Broechen, mit Fischereien und mit allen andern Gulden und
Renten, Pächten und Zubehör." (Lacomblet Urk. Buch IV. 13.) Der Sohn
deiser Ehe Johann von Büren heirathete Aelheid von Arendael, die ihm
zwei Töchter schenkte: Alheid, Gemahlin von Derick Schenk von
Nydeggen, dem sie Arßen zubrachte, und Maria, vermählt mit Johann
Hoen von dem Broech."
They identify that it speaks of Aleit Van Buren, wife of Diederick
Schenck van Nydeck, Lord of Afferdon and Blynbeek as the granddaughter
of Maria of Guelders, and the great-granddaughter of Wilhelm Duke of
Jülich, who was a Knight of the Garter.
Genealogics link of Willem, Duke of JÜlich:
http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00028552&tree=LEO
The line of Aleit Van Buren to Marten Schenck is:
Aleit Van Buren b.c.1432
Derrick Schenck van Nydeck d.1525
Derrick Schenck van Nydeck b.c.1484
Derrick Schenck van Nydeck
Peter Schenck van Nydeck b.1547
Marten Schenck b.1584
Descendants of Marten Schenck: (much abbreviated)
1. Martin Schenck b.1584 (by Elizabeth)
2. Annetje Schenck m. Marten Ryerse
3. Jacoba Adrianse Ryerse m. Jan Dircksen Hoogland
3. Neeltje Adrianse Ryerse m. Wilhelm Hoogland
3. Sarah Ryerse m. Hendrik Hoogland
2. Jan Schenck m. Jannetje Stevense Van Voorhees
3. Jannetje Schenck b.c.1673
3. Marten Schenck b.1675 m Cornelia Van Weseelen
3. Willemtje Schenck b.1677
3. Jannettje Schenck b.1681
3. Neeltje Schenck b.1683
2. Roleof Schenck m. #1: Neeltje Gerrites Kouwenhoven (1660)
#2:Annetje Wyckoff (1675)
3. Marten Rolfse Schenck b.1661
3. Jannetje Schenck
3. Jan Rolfse Schenck b.1670
3. Gerret Schenck b.1671
3. Neeltje Schenck b.1682
3. Mayken Schenck b.1684
Tony Hoskins
colonial New York was shown to be unproved and very unlikely by William
J. Hoffman, the leading Dutch-American genealogist, in "An Armory of
American Families of Dutch Descent: Schenck," The New York
Genealogical and Biographical Record 68 (1937):114-118, reprinted in
Genealogies of Long Island Families, 2 vols. (Baltimore: Genealogical
Publishing Co., 1987), 2:44-48.
The two Schenck families were:
* Jan Martense Schenck and his brother, Roelof Martense Schenck; they
arrived in New Netherland about 1650, presumably with their sister
Elizabeth, later wife of Adriaen Ryersen; and
* Johannes Schenck, who arrived in New York in or before 1684.
Anthony Hoskins
History, Genealogy and Archives Librarian
History and Genealogy Library
Sonoma County Library
3rd and E Streets
Santa Rosa, California 95404
Leo
I am very pleased that Joe took the trouble the copy this German language
segment, and I hope someone can help finding some answers.
"Als Herr von Arcen wird uns zuerst Otto von Buren 1355, genannt....."
ES VIII Tafel 48 covers this family.
Otto II mentioned 1263,1309
Otto III died before 1329
Otto III has a brother Lambert who in turn has a younger son Otto, and this
must be the one,
he was a knight, it seems he became Lord of Arcen in 1359 and weas a
councellor in the Duchy of Gelre from 1354 to 1400 he married a lady named
Marina but they did not have children.
Otto was a third son, his brother Johan (the second son) was father of
Johan, knight, and the next Lord of Arcen who died about 1402. This last
Johan must have been married but no wife is shown. But this is the Johan who
is supposedly married to the daughter of Duke Willem of Julich and Gelre.
Otto III of this family was married to a bastard daughter of a Count of
Holland, which raises the question why is it not recorded that Johan had
married _a daughter_ of the Duke of Gelre?
"1390 empfangt Johann von Buren, son Johanns die Belehnung, obschon dat Gut
entweder wegen versamter Lehnerhebung oder aus andern Grunden dem Herzog
verfallen war. Herzog Reinald von Julich und Geldern, vermalthe den
genannten Johann von Buren mit seiner Nichte Maria, Tochter seines
verstorbenen Bruders, des Herzogs Wilhelm von Geldern, und gab ihm 1402 am
20 April zur erblichen Aussteuer "das Schloss und Herrlichkeit von Arcen
....."
To me it seems, as the original Otto, 1st Lord of Arcen died childless, the
property returned to the Duke who then bestows it upon Otto's nephew. So far
so good. ES gives this Johann four children but no wife.
Wilhelm I, Duke of Gelre and Julich, was born in 1363. and died 16 February
1402. On 10 September 1379 he married Catharina of Holland-Bavaria but they
remained childless.
This leaves only as possibility that Maria was illegitimate, which
would/could keep the link in place. The only illegitimate child I have found
(so far) for Wilhelm was a daughter whose first name is not known but she
was described as bastaarddochter van Gelre and married a Mr. van Aller van
Stoutenburch. Which means that she was not Maria.
"Der sohn dieser Ehe (Johann-x-Maria van Gelre) Johann von Buren heirathete
Adelheid von Arendael, die ihm zwei Tochter schenkte: Adelheid and
Maria......"
ES VIII 48 squeezes another generation in. Johann (supposedly married to
Maria van Gelre) had a son Johann, Lord of Arcen mentioned in 1402 but no
wife-------1402? wasn't that the year his parents married? In April 1402, if
this is correct a bit of squeezing is needed. I am starting to feel this
extra generation may be wrong, as Johann's son, also Johann, Lord of Arcen
is mentioned in 1429 and died in 1461. It seems these two are really one.
Can anyone tell?
The husband of daughter Maria is called Johann Hoen von dem Broech, ES calls
him Johann von Hoensbroech, a family alive and well in 2005.
ES shows many Schenck/Schenk families but not Schenck von Nydeggen/van
Nydeck. I would love to know more about them as Baron Diederik Schenck van
Nijdeggen died 1661 married Anna Margaretha van Nassau, a descendant of
William the Silent.
And by looking around you can find interesting things.
A Dirck Schenck van Nijdeggen married NN van Berlaer,
their son
Maarten Schenck van Nijdeggen, born circa 1540 Goch, died 10 August 1589
drowned in the river Waal. he married Maria van Gelre (!!) Maria married
again and died in 1616.
This Maria van Gelre was a daughter of Dirk van Gelre, Lord of Arcen (!!!),
Velden en Schandelo and Frederika van Heeckeren van Rechteren.
This Dirk, died 1570/1580 was a son of Reinier bastaard of Gelre, Lord of
Grunsfoort, and Aleid Schenk von Nideggen, heiress of Arcen, Velden and
Schandelo (!!!!)
Reinier bastaard of Gelre, is an illegitimate son of Adolf van Egmond, Duke
of Gelre, which makes him a half-brother of the last Duke of Gelre and a
nephew of Marie of Egmond wife of James II, King of Scots.
Aleid Schenk von Nideggen, heiress of Arcen, Velden and Schandelo is a
daughter of Wijnand Schenk von Nideggen and Johanna van der Donck. I would
presume that this Wijnand is a descendant of Adelheid, mentioned above.
Can anyone bring order in this? :-) I wonder whether Joe in his list of
descendants of Marten Schenck is implying that his descendants are
illegitimate by saying
1.Martin Schenck b.1584 (by Elizabeth)
Hoping someone can add to all this.
Best wishes
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia
Leo
married a possible illegitimate daughter of Duke Wilhelm, fathered four
children also appears to have died about 1402----makes things very
tight.......