Another Scandinavian descent overlooked
wjhonson
http://www.genealogics.org/pedigree.php?personID=I00079669&tree=LEO&display=standard
that Ulf Jarl in England who is supposed to be the father of Svend
Estridsen who was King of Denmark 1047-74 as Leo has it.
Estrid Svendsdattir being Svend's mother (and also Svend's daughter!
but a different Svend obviously).
At any rate Ulf's father is there given as "Thrugils Sprakaleg"
Surely this is the same person elsewhere called "Thorgil Sprakling"
and given the following additional details.
"Slain at the Battle of Svolder" 999 or 1000
son of
Styrbjorn "the Strong" of Sweden, ruler of the /Jomsvikings/ -985-
by his wife or mistress
Thyra Haraldsdattir of Denmark (her first husband)
who (Thyra) after her third husband was slain committed suicide by
starvation (an odd choice)
This Styrbjorn is given as son of
Olaf Bjornsson, joint-King of /Sweden/ 970-5
while Thyra is given as daughter of
Harald "Bluetooth", King of /Denmark/ and Norway -985-
by
Gyrid Olafsdottir
This connection, gives the royal british household yet another link to
the ancient Scandinavian royalty.
Will Johnson
M Sjostrom
in that lineage which you proclaimed, the biggest problem is the filiation
of Thorkild Sprakaleg:
it seems to be only some sort of poetic concoction or a mis-identification
that the said Thorkild would be son of the kinglet Styrbjörn.
Torkel Sprakaleg:
http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00079497&tree=LEO
his alleged father Styrbjörn was an agnatic descendant of mythical kings of
Svea:
http://www.genealogics.org/descend.php?personID=I00280755&tree=LEO
being heir of a branch which rivalled against king Eric the Victorious (who
was the husband of Sigrid 'storrada')
But it is not recommendable to connect Torkel Sprakaleg and Styrbjörn with a
filiation in any respectable genealogy.
---
Sprakaleg by the way refers to his leg(s) which was broken or something.
'Sprakling' is a mongrelization by anglo-speakers who did not gather what
the scasndinavian meaning and wording was.
Thorkild is a often-seen pagan-era scandinavian name: Tyrgils, Thorcillus,
Torkel, Torkil, and scoto-anglo Torquil
It is very true that Thorkild Sprakaleg was some sort of magnate. His son,
the viking earl Volf held high positions in both England and in Denmark,
And Torkel's daughter (Volf's sister) Gyda seems to been the wife of Godwin,
earl of Wessex, and mother of king Harold
Nothing however attests that thery were really descended from Styrbjörn and
the legendary dynasty of Swedish kings.
James Hogg
>Thorkild is a often-seen pagan-era scandinavian name: Tyrgils, Thorcillus,
>Torkel, Torkil, and scoto-anglo Torquil
There are originally two different names in there.
One (your Tyrgils) is a compound of the god's name Thor and a
word meaning arrow shaft (in the forms "gils" and "g�sl"), giving
Thorgils or Thrugils (modern Truls, Troels).
All the others come from a compound of Thor and a word meaning
helmet or kettle (in the forms "ketill" and "kell"), giving
Thorketill or Thorkell (modern Torkel, Torkild).
--
James
M Sjostrom
as evidenced by the namings of the famous marshal (high constable) of
Sweden,
Tyrgils or Torkel Knutson, lord of Lena and Aranes
his name is found, for example, as Thorcillus, Thorkild, as well as Tyrgils.
btw, in genealogics that gentleman is:
http://genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00473694&tree=LEO
M Sjostrom
http://www.genealogics.org/descend.php?personID=I00280755&tree=LEO<http://www.google.com/url?sa=D&q=http://www.genealogics.org/descend.php%3FpersonID%3DI00280755%26tree%3DLEO&usg=AFQjCNFAx8NV1S8zkHfIqBt3p2CIYvazOQ>
whose one agnatic descendant, according to saga material, was
Styr-Björn the Strong
however, no satisfactory near-contemporary testimony found that he would
have been the father of:
Torkel Sprakalegg:
http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00079497&tree=LEO<http://www.google.com/url?sa=D&q=http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php%3FpersonID%3DI00079497%26tree%3DLEO&usg=AFQjCNFlMdIXULSkZXIFkbI52Faa5DKxfA>
who was -according to near-contemporary sources- quite reliably the father
of:
1 Gyda; married Godwin, earl of Wessex
http://genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00080022&tree=LEO
2 jarl Volf
http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00079498&tree=LEO
wjhonson
> mythical Svea kings:http://www.genealogics.org/descend.php?personID=I00280755&tree=LEO<http://www.google.com/url?sa=D&q=http://www.genealogics.org/descend.p...>
>
> whose one agnatic descendant, according to saga material, was
>
> Styr-Björn the Strong
>
> however, no satisfactory near-contemporary testimony found that he would
> have been the father of:
>
>
> who was -according to near-contemporary sources- quite reliably the father
> of:
>
> 1 Gyda; married Godwin, earl of Wessex
>
> http://genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00080022&tree=LEO
>
> 2 jarl Volf
>
> http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00079498&tree=LEO
Could you specify what the near contemporary source is which states
that Gyda was the daughter of Sprakaleg?
The Wikipedia article on her, only cites to AR8, which I've extracted
http://knol.google.com/k/will-johnson/ancestral-roots-8th-edition/4hmquk6fx4gu/393#
AR8 only cites to ES II/78, 97,98
Leo also cites to ES II/78 presumably here
http://genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00080022&tree=LEO
but perhaps tellingly does NOT make her the daughter of anyone.
Which then asks the question, what exactly does ES II/78 say?
Also, not in relation to her, but rather her possibly father
Sprakaleg, Weis in AR8 says pointedly that it cites no authority for
its claim to make him the son of Styrbjorn by Thyra.
It makes one wonder how flimsy the rest is, if this is cited on no
authority.
Will
M Sjostrom
indicate that Gyda wife of earl Godwin was sister of earl Volf the father of
kinf Svend III.
Therefore I regard this as one of the satisfactory filiations. It is really
not easy to have more certainty when paternity of high medieval women are in
question....
those sources seem to include: Florence of Worcester tells that earl Sweyn,
eldest son og Godwn and Gyda, had the said earl Volf as uncle. Further,
Florence indicates that king Harold II, earlier the earl of Wessex, was (via
his mother Gyda) a close kinsman of king Svend III of Denmark. Adam of
Bremen narrates that Godwin's wife, the mother of earls Sweyn, Tostig and
Harold, was sister of Volf. Morkinskinna reports that Gyda wife of Godwin
was daughter of Torgils Sprakalegg and sister of earl Volf.
** <http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/DENMARK.htm#_ftn263><http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/DENMARK.htm#_ftn264>
taf
> Could you specify what the near contemporary source is which states
> that Gyda was the daughter of Sprakaleg?
Medieval Lands has a decent summary of the evidence for Gytha being
sister of Ulf and daughter of Sprakalegg.
As to 'Sprakalegg' being son of Styrbjorn, John/Florence of Worcester,
relates that "Bjorn, son of his uncle Ulf, a Danish earl, who was son
of Spracing, who was son of Urso, and brother of Swein king of
Denmark . . ." It could be that this indicates the linkage had
already been forged, but I don't think so - Styrbjorn was a saga hero
and I doubt the Worcester chronicler would have just called him Urso.
To me it looks like this is just a generic Urso, but since Urso is
'bear', and so is Bjorn, someone has used this to link Thorgils to
Styr-bjorn. This was not done because anyone cared about Gytha, but
because this gives a heroic royal male line to Svein Estrithson.
taf
M Sjostrom
of Styr-Björn the Strong.
Namely, Sprakalegg's son, earl Volf, was well in adulthood in c1015 when he
took part in Canute the Great's expedition.
Volf's father Sprakalegg should thusly been an adult himself in about 990,
to have had a son old enough in c1015.
But kinglet Styr-Björn is estimated to Jomsborg and to his marriage with
Thyra Haralsdatter only about 985.
Probably Styr-Björn was all too young to have had a son who was adult
already in the 990s.