Duplication of Records? Dublin and Belfast
Lowdown
1850s. Are any Northern Ireland records held in Dublin as well as PRONI in
Belfast?
Thanks for any assistance.
Ted
Doreen Edgar
>1850s. Are any Northern Ireland records held in Dublin as well as PRONI in
>Belfast?
Civil registration didn't start in Ireland until 1864 and the BMD records for
the whole country from then until partition c1921/22 are available in Dublin.
Protestant marriages were registered from 1845 and I think that they are held
in the local registrar's office.
Doreen
Researching EDGAR, ROCKS, MULHOLLAND, ROSS
Micky
are held in Belfast.
Mick
"Lowdown" <linte...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:DXea7.1734$4l3.4...@news.total.net...
Claire
> I am interested in Fermanagh (Northern Ireland) BMD records for the mid
> 1850s. Are any Northern Ireland records held in Dublin as well as PRONI in
> Belfast?
Ted,
If you mean BMD records (i.e., civil registration), that didn't start in
Ireland until 1864, except for some non-RC marriages that began being
registered in 1845. Those records are not at PRONI, but at the GRO Belfast.
If you mean mid-1800s church records, they are (some of them) at PRONI on
microfilm (also in Dublin at National Archives(?) or National Library(?) --
maybe both? and are also in local custody (originals)). To use them,
however, you need to know the townland from which your people came and what
religion they practiced. Beginning dates for the survival of these records
vary, so if you can tell us the townland (or better, the civil or religious
parish) and the religion, someone may be able to tell you if the records still
exist.
Hope that helps.
Claire
Padraig O Gealagain
registration records up until 1922 are held at www.groireland.ie
i.e., GRO, Dublin
for all Ireland. After 1922 Dublin does not have registration records
for Northern Ireland. They are at Belfast.
"Claire" <cag...@home.com> wrote in message
news:3B69E291...@home.com...
Claire
> Sorry Claire your email has some mis-information. All civil
> registration records up until 1922 are held at www.groireland.ie
> i.e., GRO, Dublin
> for all Ireland. After 1922 Dublin does not have registration records
> for Northern Ireland. They are at Belfast.
How does this contradict what I said? Where's the misinformation? The
question was re mid-1800 records, and mentioned their being at GRO Dublin
and PRONI. I 1) mentioned the start of registration, which is too late
for the requester's specific query, but might be useful for later
siblings/descendants and 2) said the Belfast record repository for BMD
records is not PRONI but the GRO Belfast. I did not address post-1922
records, because the question clearly was limited to mid-1800 records,
but you are right that the post-1922 records for NI are not available in
Dublin but are in Belfast.
If what you're saying is that the pre-1922 BMD records are available ONLY
at the GRO Dublin (i.e., if you're taking issue with my saying they are
available at the GRO Belfast), then it is you who are wrong. I have been
to the GRO Belfast to use the records there. And yes, I have also been
to the GRO Dublin to use the records there, as well.
The difference between the two is that the GRO Belfast has the original
registers -- small ledgers, each covering maybe 2 years, for each
registration district. Each ledger has a name index (at least, in the
areas I was researching). So, if you know the approximate year of an
event and the exact townland (and associated registration district) for
your rellies, you can hone in on them faster (than at the GRO Dublin) by
using the GRO Belfast records. (If you don't have this info, you're
probably better off searching the GRO Dublin records in person or vai
microfilm). BUT you can't look at the books yourself at the GRO
Belfast--you have to have a staff member look the info up and read it to
you. And you must make an appointment at least several weeks in
advance. The GRO Belfast has just unveiled a computerized lookup system;
I haven't used it yet, so am unclear how much info is in it, but it's
some sort of index. You still need to go to the original registers to
get the full info, per the workers at the GRO Belfast with whom I've been
in contact. The GRO Belfast also has the book indexes (which they
purchased from the GRO Dublin) (but see note below re their limited
usefulness when used in conjuntion with the GRO Belfast records). Unlike
the GRO Dublin, the GRO Belfast does not necessarily boot you out while
they take their lunch break. You can stay and look through the indexes
(and maybe the computer now) in preparation for the next batch of lookups
(assuming you plan to spend a whole day there, of course, and this is an
issue for you). The facilities at the GRO Belfast are rather cramped
(and there's a limit to how many staff members they can assign to handle
running back and forth to retrieve the books and do your lookups), so
they are limited in how many appointments they can handle at a time,
which means you really need to make the appointment well in advance of
your visit, to be sure they can accomodate you.
The records at the GRO Dublin are duplicates made by the registrars and
sent in to the government. The government took the ledgers from various
registrars and bound them together in a series of volumes. These volume
and page numbers are what the Irish birth indexes refer to (the volume
numbers and page numbers are useless at the GRO Belfast, as they have the
original books, not the compilation volumes; if, however, you know which
quarter of the year the volume represents, you can use that rough info to
look for the info in the GRO Belfast records). At the GRO Dublin, you
can look at the indexes but not at the actual registers; you must pay for
a photocopy (and wait, for hours if you're lucky and for days/weeks if
you're not) before you can ascertain if it's the right person/family.
(At the GRO Belfast, in contrast, the staff member can tell you which
townland the people were in at the time of the event, so, if you know the
townland(s) with which your family was associated, you will know
immediately if it's not your family and can go on to the next
possibility; or do the same with the info re occupation, if your rellie
had an unusual one, or with parents' names, etc.). The GRO Dublin also
makes you leave for more than an hour while they take their lunch break,
which really eats into your research time. It is, FYI, the GRO Dublin
records that have been filmed by the LDS.
All of which is irrelevant to the question to which I was responding, as
the question concerned records predating the start of civil registration
in Ireland, which is why I didn't mention these details in my first
post. But I hope it clears up any misconceptions you might have had, and
is useful to others as well.
Claire
Padraig O Gealagain
mis-information:
"> registered in 1845. Those records are not at PRONI, but at the GRO
Belfast.
>
You see, you stated 'GRO, Belfast' which city, to my knowledge, does
not have such an office- In N.I., it is PRONI, not GRO.
And all the post 1922 civil records are in Dublin.
Padraig+
"Claire" <cag...@home.com> wrote in message
news:3B6C24B7...@home.com...
Padraig O Gealagain
GRONI and PRONI, not GRO Belfast, etc.
Padraig+
"Padraig O Gealagain" <paddyog...@sprint.ca> wrote in message
news:...
Doreen Edgar
>not have such an office- In N.I., it is PRONI, not GRO.
The PRONI does not have the BMD records - they are at the GRO (?) in Chichester
Street, Belfast
Claire
> Dear Claire, Don't get upset. Here's is the sentence that had
> mis-information:
>
> "> registered in 1845. Those records are not at PRONI, but at the GRO
> Belfast.
> >
> You see, you stated 'GRO, Belfast' which city, to my knowledge, does
> not have such an office- In N.I., it is PRONI, not GRO.
It will be news to the people who work at the GRO Belfast that they do not
exist.
PRONI is on the outskirts of Belfast -- 66 Balmoral Avenue, Belfast BT9
6NY
the GRO is near Belfast City Hall -- Oxford House, 49/55 Chichester
Street, Belfast BT1 4HL
They have very different records. The GRO has BMD records -- see
http://www.groni.gov.uk/index.htm for links to order certs online. PRONI
has too many records for me to categorize in a brief phrase -- see
http://proni.nics.gov.uk/records/records.htm for their links to info on
categories of records held.
PRONI is a very big space, where you do not need to make an appointment.
The GRO is a very small space, where you do need to make an appointment,
at least several weeks in advance.
> And all the post 1922 civil records are in Dublin.
Not for Northern Ireland, they're not. Post-1922, the GRO Dublin only has
records for the 26 counties that now constitute the Republic of Ireland.
Post-1922 BMD records for NI are in Belfast at, yes, the GRO.
Now who's guilty of spreading misinformation? Before you accuse someone
of being wrong, you should check your information more carefully.
Claire
Micheál Ó Caináin
;-)
Rgds
--
Micheál Ó Caináin (walking away, whistling innocently)
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Claire
> Oops, Claire, looks like I am wrong- sort of! The proper names are
> GRONI and PRONI, not GRO Belfast, etc.
>
> Padraig+
If you look at the official web site whose link I gave in an earlier post,
you will see that the GRO in Belfast calls itself "GRO." Because that can
easily be confused with the GRO in Dublin, people (unofficially) sometimes
call it GRONI. I personally have found that people are then even more
likely to confuse it with PRONI, so I subscribe to the group who refer to
it as "GRO Belfast," as I find that reference most clearly distinguishes
it from both the GRO in Dublin and PRONI in Belfast. Neither the "GRO
Belfast" nor the "GRONI" nickname is official, so you can choose whichever
one you please. Generally, people will know what you're talking about
either way.
Claire
Sir Crispin Gaylord
> Now who's guilty of spreading misinformation? Before you accuse someone
> of being wrong, you should check your information more carefully.
Dear Claire
Paddy really is a chump.
I'm not at all surprised that he had to emigrate to the colonies to make
his mark. Rather like a cousin of mine who rose to high rank in the Royal
Hong Kong Police after leaving Blighty under a cloud of fraud, drugs and
buggery.
Yours, etc
CRISPIN GAYLORD, BARONET
ah...@world.std.com
: It will be news to the people who work at the GRO Belfast that they do not
: exist.
They do exist, but you need to make an appointment in advance to speak
with them. At least that's the way it was a few years ago. The GRO in
Dublin, on the other hand, allows anybody to walk in off the street, but
then it takes so long to get anything out of them you may as well not have
bothered. [said Dennis putting on his asbestoes suit]
http://www.groireland.ie/
General Register Office (Republic of Ireland)
Births, Marriages and Deaths for 32 counties 1864-1922
Republic of Ireland only 1922-present
http://www.nisra.gov.uk
General Register Office (Northern Ireland)
Births and Deaths for 6 counties of NI since 1864
Marriages for Northern Ireland since 1922
These, and other useful links, can be reached from the TIARA web site.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Dennis Ahern | The Irish Ancestral Research Association
Acton, Massachusetts | Dept. W, P.O. Box 619, Sudbury, MA 01776
ah...@world.std.com | http://www.tiara.ie
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