Popert (Schachspieler)

[John Townsend]

Guten Abend, meine Damen und Herren.

Konnte jemand mir erzahlen, bitte, wann der beruhmte Schachspieler Popert
gestorben sei?

Geboren ungefahr 1797 (zu Hamburg ?), wohnte er zu London ungefahr
1835-1842, Kaufmann und Schachspieler. Zwischen 1842 und Mai 1847 ist er zu
Hamburg gestorben. Wann? Ich glaube, dass seine Vorname Wilhelm
(vielleicht
Wilhelm M.) war.

Danke vielmals,

John Townsend,
Wokingham, Berkshire, England

[J. Anderl]

"John Townsend" wrote: > Guten Abend, meine Damen und Herren.

You probably know already, that according to the Edo Historical
Chess Ratings http://www.edochess.ca/players/p20.html he died 1844.
Josef Anderl
>
>
>
>

--- Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net/ - Complaints to ne...@netfront.net ---

[John Townsend]

"J. Anderl" <jos...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:ja70cs$s3f$1...@adenine.netfront.net...

>
> "John Townsend" wrote: > Guten Abend, meine Damen und Herren.
>>
>> Konnte jemand mir erzahlen, bitte, wann der beruhmte Schachspieler Popert
>> gestorben sei?
>>
>> Geboren ungefahr 1797 (zu Hamburg ?), wohnte er zu London ungefahr
>> 1835-1842, Kaufmann und Schachspieler. Zwischen 1842 und Mai 1847 ist er
>> zu
>> Hamburg gestorben. Wann? Ich glaube, dass seine Vorname Wilhelm
>> (vielleicht
>> Wilhelm M.) war.
>>
>> Danke vielmals,
>>
>> John Townsend,
>> Wokingham, Berkshire, England
>
>
> You probably know already, that according to the Edo Historical Chess
> Ratings http://www.edochess.ca/players/p20.html he died 1844.
> Josef Anderl

Thank you. It mentions "a tentative death date of 1844 (though possibly
later)", which I find rather vague, and I do not know why 1844 has been
proposed.

Are there registration records of German deaths?

John

[Enno Borgsteede]

Hi John,

> Are there registration records of German deaths?

Yes, but I don't know many on-line resources for these records. Most
German archives don't have many useful indexes on the web, and I didn't
find any relevant results on FamilySearch either.

I also tried http://www.genealogy.net/ without results, but I think that
site is useful anyway, because there is a lot of knowledge over there on
German genealogy.

Hope you find something useful over there.

cheers,

Enno

[John Townsend]

Am I right in understanding that civil registration records of German deaths
do not commence until 1874?

If so, a burial record for Wilhelm (M). Popert is needed (1842 - May 1847).
How many churches were there in Hamburg? Can anyone suggest the most
likely, please?

Thanks and regards,

John Townsend

[Bernd J. Kaup]

Am 30.01.2012 19:49, schrieb John Townsend:
> Am I right in understanding that civil registration records of German deaths
> do not commence until 1874?

thats right, with some exceptions, which do not apply for Hamburg and
surroundings.

>
> If so, a burial record for Wilhelm (M). Popert is needed (1842 - May 1847).

could you define this more precisely?

> How many churches were there in Hamburg? Can anyone suggest the most
> likely, please?
>

You may appreciate that Hamburg has more than 2 million inhabitants, the
average population for one church is about 6000, thus there are about
300. Many of the files may also be in archives or be destroyed in the
last 160 years.

The most likely is the one in the town quarter where the parents lived
at the date of birth, or the one where he lived, when he died. Both are
even, because the death is registered on the birth file also.

mfg
bjk

[John Townsend]

Bernd,

Thank you for your helpful reply.

>> If so, a burial record for Wilhelm (M). Popert is needed (1842 - May
>> 1847).

> could you define this more precisely?

In the 1841 census of England is an entry for "William M. Popert", a
foreign-born 44-year-old merchant living in Fenchurch Street, in the city of
London. (Source: 1841 census, National Archives, HO 107 720/13, f. 16.).
I expect that he was born about 1797 somewhere in Hamburg.

I take him to be the famous chessplayer, who was still playing chess in 1842
but later returned to Hamburg. In May 1847 he was mentioned as being dead
in a chess periodical, but with no date of death. Another chess source (in
which I have some confidence) gives 1846 as the year of his death, but again
no date. Near the end of his life he suffered from some mental impairment,
which was perhaps caused by a stroke.

Perhaps his birth record may be easier to find than the burial and it might
then point to the place of burial?

Regards,

John Townsend

[Bernd J. Kaup]

Am 31.01.2012 12:15, schrieb John Townsend:
> Bernd,
>
> Thank you for your helpful reply.
>
>>> If so, a burial record for Wilhelm (M). Popert is needed (1842 - May
>>> 1847).
>
>> could you define this more precisely?
>
> In the 1841 census of England is an entry for "William M. Popert", a
> foreign-born 44-year-old merchant living in Fenchurch Street, in the city of
> London. (Source: 1841 census, National Archives, HO 107 720/13, f. 16.).
> I expect that he was born about 1797 somewhere in Hamburg.

You may safely assume, that a merchant, when from Hamburg would be roman
catholic not protestant as the vast majority of the population. Thus you
should try to find out, where the archive is located. Not in Hamburg,
for sure, because for the town the Bishop of Osnabrueck was the
religious leader. (There was a Bishop in Hamburg til about 1650, but
only a fwew years ago they got a new one).
To look for the protestant records is not easier. Hamburg was a free
town in the middle of a area ruled by the King of Denmark in the north
and the Elector of Hannover and King of Great Britain etc. in the south.
Thus the records may be in Kopenhagen or in Hannover. Because the
political ruler was normally also the leader of the church.

>
> I take him to be the famous chessplayer, who was still playing chess in 1842
> but later returned to Hamburg. In May 1847 he was mentioned as being dead
> in a chess periodical, but with no date of death. Another chess source (in
> which I have some confidence) gives 1846 as the year of his death, but again
> no date. Near the end of his life he suffered from some mental impairment,
> which was perhaps caused by a stroke.

If he died in a home for the mentally impaired you may find hints in the
Hamburg state archive. There will not be many in the 1840ties and the
nearby church is the one you look for.

>
> Perhaps his birth record may be easier to find than the burial and it might
> then point to the place of burial?

as I mentioned: a complete birth record will have a note on the place
and date of death as the death record will contain a note on birth date
and place. Thus any of both should suffice.


However: its the rule, but you will find files where simply "unknown" is
stated.

mfg
bjk