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Help understanding German-written birth record
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shani or
Apr 28, 2013, 7:01:53 AM4/28/13
to
Hello All,
I would appreciate very much help in understanding a birth record of a relative. Specially the part dealing with her parents as it seems she died as a baby.
I apologize that the origin of the certificate is not within the former borders of Prussia or Germany but from the former Austro-Hungarian Empire. [I also doubt if the clerk went to school in Prussia of Germany].
Still and based on the great knowledge of some of the participants here I would be very grateful for any kind help.
The image can be seen here:
http://flic.kr/p/eeNJKQ
I’m interested in the writings only on column 7 and 12, the Anmerkung column. I’ll be grateful if someone could check my understanding and fill in the words that I couldn’t read.
In col. 7 I could read:
Chaje Ettie
Bratspiess
aus Ohladow Toch,
ter der Josefo und __
Reile Bratspiess
_ in Ohladow
_. Ramio__
In col. 12 (Anmerkung) I could read even less:
___
___
___
Dawid ___
als zeugt
Wilhelm Sternberg
With many thanks for any help
Shani Or
I would appreciate very much help in understanding a birth record of a relative. Specially the part dealing with her parents as it seems she died as a baby.
I apologize that the origin of the certificate is not within the former borders of Prussia or Germany but from the former Austro-Hungarian Empire. [I also doubt if the clerk went to school in Prussia of Germany].
Still and based on the great knowledge of some of the participants here I would be very grateful for any kind help.
The image can be seen here:
http://flic.kr/p/eeNJKQ
I’m interested in the writings only on column 7 and 12, the Anmerkung column. I’ll be grateful if someone could check my understanding and fill in the words that I couldn’t read.
In col. 7 I could read:
Chaje Ettie
Bratspiess
aus Ohladow Toch,
ter der Josefo und __
Reile Bratspiess
_ in Ohladow
_. Ramio__
In col. 12 (Anmerkung) I could read even less:
___
___
___
Dawid ___
als zeugt
Wilhelm Sternberg
With many thanks for any help
Shani Or
Bernd J. Kaup
Apr 28, 2013, 12:58:55 PM4/28/13
to
Am 28.04.2013 13:01, schrieb shani or:
> Hello All,
>
> I would appreciate very much help in understanding a birth record of a relative. Specially the part dealing with her parents as it seems she died as a baby.
> I apologize that the origin of the certificate is not within the former borders of Prussia or Germany but from the former Austro-Hungarian Empire. [I also doubt if the clerk went to school in Prussia of Germany].
> Still and based on the great knowledge of some of the participants here I would be very grateful for any kind help.
> The image can be seen here:
> http://flic.kr/p/eeNJKQ
> I�m interested in the writings only on column 7 and 12, the Anmerkung column. I�ll be grateful if someone could check my understanding and fill in the words that I couldn�t read.
> Hello All,
>
> I would appreciate very much help in understanding a birth record of a relative. Specially the part dealing with her parents as it seems she died as a baby.
> I apologize that the origin of the certificate is not within the former borders of Prussia or Germany but from the former Austro-Hungarian Empire. [I also doubt if the clerk went to school in Prussia of Germany].
> Still and based on the great knowledge of some of the participants here I would be very grateful for any kind help.
> The image can be seen here:
> http://flic.kr/p/eeNJKQ
> In col. 7 I could read:
> Chaje Ettie
> Bratspiess
> aus Ohladow Toch,
> ter der Josefo und __
> Reile Bratspiess
> _ in Ohladow
> _. Ramio__
Chaje Effie
> Chaje Ettie
> Bratspiess
> aus Ohladow Toch,
> ter der Josefo und __
> Reile Bratspiess
> _ in Ohladow
> _. Ramio__
Bratspiess
aus (from)Ohladow
Tochter der (daughter of)
Josefa Keile Bratspiess
Haeuslerin (living at home)Ohladow
Bez Kamiont(?) (county Kamiont)
>
> In col. 12 (Anmerkung) I could read even less:
(declares himself father of the illegitimate child)
David Szargel
als Zeuge
(as witness)
> Wilhelm Sternberg
the col.11 says that the Person of line 1 has died on January 9, 1894 in
Daliby. Reference is made to the Sterbereg.(=Sterberegister, list of
death)of an office I can't decifer.
Thus I am not sure, whether you need a reconcilliation of your assumptions.
mfg
bjk
Bernd Niemann
Apr 28, 2013, 1:22:40 PM4/28/13
to
Hello!
Am 28.04.2013 13:01, shani or wrote:
> I would appreciate very much help in
> understanding a birth record of a relative.
[...]
> I�m interested in the writings only on column 7
7.
Chaje Ettie
Bratspie�
aus Ohladow Toch-
ter der Josefa
Keile Bratspie�
H�uslers in Ohladow
Bez. Kamionka
daughter of Josefa Keile Bratspie�,
of Ohladow [daughter of a] 'H�usler' at
Ohladow, district of Kamionka
11. Todt geborene Kinder
Laut Sterbereg. Tom (?)
IV Pag. 1. [...] 4; am 9/1
1894 in Duliby ge-
storben
11. stillborn children
regarding to death-register
[...] died on 09 January 1894
at Duliby
(12) Anmerkung
erkl�rt sich
_als Zeuge_
Wilhelm Sternberg
(12) Annotations
declares himself as the father
of the out of wedlock born child
Dawid Schargel (?)
_as witness_
Wilhelm Sternberg
--
It's not clear to me, who is the father
and who is the witness
---
HTH
Bernd
Am 28.04.2013 13:01, shani or wrote:
> I would appreciate very much help in
> understanding a birth record of a relative.
> I�m interested in the writings only on column 7
> and 12, the Anmerkung column.
I read:
7.
Chaje Ettie
Bratspie�
aus Ohladow Toch-
ter der Josefa
Keile Bratspie�
H�uslers in Ohladow
Bez. Kamionka
daughter of Josefa Keile Bratspie�,
of Ohladow [daughter of a] 'H�usler' at
Ohladow, district of Kamionka
11. Todt geborene Kinder
Laut Sterbereg. Tom (?)
IV Pag. 1. [...] 4; am 9/1
1894 in Duliby ge-
storben
11. stillborn children
regarding to death-register
[...] died on 09 January 1894
at Duliby
(12) Anmerkung
erkl�rt sich
als Vater
des unehelichen Kindes
Dawid Schargel (?)
des unehelichen Kindes
_als Zeuge_
Wilhelm Sternberg
(12) Annotations
declares himself as the father
of the out of wedlock born child
Dawid Schargel (?)
_as witness_
Wilhelm Sternberg
--
It's not clear to me, who is the father
and who is the witness
---
HTH
Bernd
shani or
Apr 28, 2013, 4:31:50 PM4/28/13
to
Thank you, thank you so much for your answers! It is such a great help!
Please allow me to ask more:
I uploaded most of the page maybe it can help. This can be found here:
http://flic.kr/p/eeRqTr
1. It was not too common in this kind of record from this region and time frame not to mention the father of the lady who gave the birth. Looking at other registers on the page I was thinking that maybe this strange letter which looks like “a” with a down tail, or “q”, is in fact a symbol of “and”. Which will make it “Josef and Keile”. If you could please look at the previous entries on this page, they show this symbol too [Like Jakob ‘a’ Sara]. If it is so then both parents’ names are mentioned. Am I correct ?
2. In col. 8, “der Pathen” there are 2 words underneath the name “Abraham Sch?”. Are they not connected to the previous column, col.7 ?
3. Am I correct to think that Dawid SCHARGEL was the father and Wilhelm STERNBERG was the witness ?
Thank you, again, very very much for your help
Shani Or
Please allow me to ask more:
I uploaded most of the page maybe it can help. This can be found here:
http://flic.kr/p/eeRqTr
1. It was not too common in this kind of record from this region and time frame not to mention the father of the lady who gave the birth. Looking at other registers on the page I was thinking that maybe this strange letter which looks like “a” with a down tail, or “q”, is in fact a symbol of “and”. Which will make it “Josef and Keile”. If you could please look at the previous entries on this page, they show this symbol too [Like Jakob ‘a’ Sara]. If it is so then both parents’ names are mentioned. Am I correct ?
2. In col. 8, “der Pathen” there are 2 words underneath the name “Abraham Sch?”. Are they not connected to the previous column, col.7 ?
3. Am I correct to think that Dawid SCHARGEL was the father and Wilhelm STERNBERG was the witness ?
Thank you, again, very very much for your help
Shani Or
Bernd Niemann
Apr 29, 2013, 2:22:58 AM4/29/13
to
Hello,
Am 28.04.2013 22:31, shani or wrote:
> I uploaded most of the page maybe it can help.
Fine, yes it helps.
>
> 1. [...]
> a down tail, or �q�, is in fact a symbol of �and�.
You're right, it is a kind of & and means 'and'.
> If it is so then both parents� names are mentioned.
Yes, it reads:
| Toch-
| ter des Josef &
| Keile Bratspie�
> 2. In col. 8, �der Pathen� there are 2 words underneath
> the name �Abraham Sch?�. Are they not connected to the
> previous column, col.7 ?
I don't think so, I read
Abraham
Schor (?)
aus Kru... (?)
Abraham Schor (?) from Kru...(?)
> 3. Am I correct to think that Dawid SCHARGEL was the
> father and Wilhelm STERNBERG was the witness ?
Yes, please compare entries 2 and 3
in both an Arie Weitz is noted.
So, first name = father; second name = witnes.
HTH
Bernd from Germany
Am 28.04.2013 22:31, shani or wrote:
> I uploaded most of the page maybe it can help.
>
> 1. [...]
> Looking at other registers on the page I was thinking
> that maybe this strange letter which looks like �a� with
> a down tail, or �q�, is in fact a symbol of �and�.
You're right, it is a kind of & and means 'and'.
> If it is so then both parents� names are mentioned.
Yes, it reads:
| Toch-
| ter des Josef &
| Keile Bratspie�
> 2. In col. 8, �der Pathen� there are 2 words underneath
> the name �Abraham Sch?�. Are they not connected to the
> previous column, col.7 ?
I don't think so, I read
Abraham
Schor (?)
aus Kru... (?)
Abraham Schor (?) from Kru...(?)
> 3. Am I correct to think that Dawid SCHARGEL was the
> father and Wilhelm STERNBERG was the witness ?
in both an Arie Weitz is noted.
So, first name = father; second name = witnes.
HTH
Bernd from Germany
shani or
Apr 29, 2013, 4:26:32 PM4/29/13
to
Thank you very-very much for your further assistance!
All of it was a huge help and a great lesson for me.
With a lot of heartfelt gratitude
Shani Or
All of it was a huge help and a great lesson for me.
With a lot of heartfelt gratitude
Shani Or
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