I don't remember quite when it was some one of my kin first mentioned geni.com, but it was several years ago. As a curious newbie I of course went to the site and explored what I could without actually signing up and have to say I was negatively impressed. The site was clearly, even then, intended to be a money making proposition - nothing wrong with that - but offered little that would justify a subscription: poorly organized, limited in scope and clearly greedy. Too bad nothing has changed.
Stingy Ol' Bob
-- Robert G. Melson | Rio Grande MicroSolutions | El Paso, Texas ----- A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take away everything you have. Thomas Jefferson
> I'd be interested in knowing whether anyone else had better luck than I did.
On my resent family visit my brother-in-law showed me his relatives posting to the Geni.com site, so when I got home I took a look at the site. First things first I'm a skeptic at heart, and I was immediately suspicious when the site was more interested obtaining information from me then they were in explaining who they were. I did some research an found this article at Wikipedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geni.com>.
The primary function of the Geni.com web site is to make money using genealogy as the catch.
You cannot search the family trees of other members, unless you are related at some cousin level (3rd to 5th comes to mind).
I passed on giving them any information on my family.
Gerry wrote: > The primary function of the Geni.com web site is to make money using > genealogy as the catch.
True.
> You cannot search the family trees of other members, unless you are > related at some cousin level (3rd to 5th comes to mind).
Are you suggesting that's bad? When I looked at it long ago, I was concerned that privacy was insufficient. Sounds like they've at least done a little on that.
-- Wes Groleau
In any formula, constants (especially those obtained from handbooks) are to be treated as variables.
In article <KkjTl.1085$9L2....@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>, Wes Groleau <groleau+n...@freeshell.org> wrote:
> Gerry wrote: > > The primary function of the Geni.com web site is to make money using > > genealogy as the catch.
> True.
> > You cannot search the family trees of other members, unless you are > > related at some cousin level (3rd to 5th comes to mind).
> Are you suggesting that's bad?
I use the RootsWeb World Connect where I can search very distant ancestors, which would not be possible on the Geni.com site, as far as I understand their rules.
Geni.com was brought to my attention when I received an e-mail from them that basically stated that I'd been included on someone's tree, and they provided a link for me to see that tree. Only when I clicked on the link, it was to find that in order to see the tree, I had to sign up with Geni.com. I was able to contact the person who supposedly added me to her tree, but she couldn't come up with a reason as to why she'd put me on there - she is definitely not related to me in any way. I wrote an e-mail to Geni.com, expressing my displeasure over being 'tricked' into joining their site and requesting that they remove my name from that tree and their site. They assured me that they would do so, but I've never checked back to see if it happened.
I found those tactics to be slightly underhanded, and promised myself that I would never use them.
Wes Groleau wrote: > Gerry wrote: >> The primary function of the Geni.com web site is to make money using >> genealogy as the catch.
> True.
>> You cannot search the family trees of other members, unless you are >> related at some cousin level (3rd to 5th comes to mind).
> Are you suggesting that's bad? > When I looked at it long ago, I was concerned that > privacy was insufficient. Sounds like they've > at least done a little on that.
I think that it's bad, mainly because if you've been added to someone's tree (which usually happens without your knowledge), you should have the chance to see what kind of information has been added. Someone added me to their tree, but it was at some extreme cousin level and when pressed, she had no idea why she'd added me, as we're not related in any way.
On Wed, 27 May 2009 21:47:10 -0400, Huntersglenn <huntersgl...@cox.net> wrote: >Geni.com was brought to my attention when I received an e-mail from them >that basically stated that I'd been included on someone's tree, and they >provided a link for me to see that tree. Only when I clicked on the >link, it was to find that in order to see the tree, I had to sign up >with Geni.com. I was able to contact the person who supposedly added me >to her tree, but she couldn't come up with a reason as to why she'd put >me on there - she is definitely not related to me in any way. I wrote >an e-mail to Geni.com, expressing my displeasure over being 'tricked' >into joining their site and requesting that they remove my name from >that tree and their site. They assured me that they would do so, but >I've never checked back to see if it happened.
>I found those tactics to be slightly underhanded, and promised myself >that I would never use them.
I've had a comment on my blog from someone from Geni.com, offering to help me fix the problem, but in view of other peoples' negative experience described here I'm not sure that it's worth the bother.
It seems rather similar to the My Heritage site, and possibly uses the same or similar software.
As a dedicated genealogist and computer engineer I agree that Geni has his pros and cons, but if you really want to build MORE than just your family tree AND get tools that really work I will suggest you to try MyHeritage.com
- First, is FREE - You can customize your privacy level (from completely open to completely private and in between) - You invite family and friend to the site to do a collaborative job. - You will get AUTOMATICALLY and continuously, a report of matches in other family trees that you can see and even contact the owner of the other tree very easily. - You can upload pictures and tag people with face recognition technology and create a beautiful slideshow. - Display and input information in 34 languages (you may speak English but your relative maybe not) - Did I mention is free (till 500 people on the tree) And many many more genealogy tools.
Yes they ask for your info, but only the basic to know how you are and help you build your family tree.
Give it a try and let me know your opinion. Did someone already use it??
Daniel Horowitz wrote: > As a dedicated genealogist and computer engineer I agree that Geni has > his pros and cons, but if you really want to build MORE than just your > family tree AND get tools that really work I will suggest you to try > MyHeritage.com
> - First, is FREE > - You can customize your privacy level (from completely open to > completely private and in between) > - You invite family and friend to the site to do a collaborative job. > - You will get AUTOMATICALLY and continuously, a report of matches in > other family trees that you can see and even contact the owner of the > other tree very easily. > - You can upload pictures and tag people with face recognition > technology and create a beautiful slideshow. > - Display and input information in 34 languages (you may speak English > but your relative maybe not) > - Did I mention is free (till 500 people on the tree) > And many many more genealogy tools.
> Yes they ask for your info, but only the basic to know how you are and > help you build your family tree.
> Give it a try and let me know your opinion. > Did someone already use it??
> Regards to all > Daniel Horowitz
You mentioned its pros. How about the cons? You did mention it had some. I saw the part about free until you have 500 people on the tree. Which I am sure most, even amateurs, already have. Albert
> Daniel Horowitz wrote: >> As a dedicated genealogist and computer engineer I agree that Geni has >> his pros and cons, but if you really want to build MORE than just your >> family tree AND get tools that really work I will suggest you to try >> MyHeritage.com
>> - First, is FREE >> - You can customize your privacy level (from completely open to >> completely private and in between) >> - You invite family and friend to the site to do a collaborative job. >> - You will get AUTOMATICALLY and continuously, a report of matches in >> other family trees that you can see and even contact the owner of the >> other tree very easily. >> - You can upload pictures and tag people with face recognition >> technology and create a beautiful slideshow. >> - Display and input information in 34 languages (you may speak English >> but your relative maybe not) >> - Did I mention is free (till 500 people on the tree) >> And many many more genealogy tools.
>> Yes they ask for your info, but only the basic to know how you are and >> help you build your family tree.
>> Give it a try and let me know your opinion. >> Did someone already use it??
>> Regards to all >> Daniel Horowitz > You mentioned its pros. How about the cons? You did mention it had > some. I saw the part about free until you have 500 people on the tree. > Which > I am sure most, even amateurs, already have. > Albert
Yeah, MyHeritage is free - for 500 names. After that, you must pay. As well, their "smart" matches are NOT terribly bright and their automated research feature has never worked in the couple of years I've attempted to use the service. It had gotten so bad a couple of weeks ago that I removed my gedcom and cancelled my (free) membership.
As they say, your mileage may vary, but this is another that is, IMNSHO, not worth the effort.
Bob Melson
-- Robert G. Melson | Rio Grande MicroSolutions | El Paso, Texas ----- A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take away everything you have. Thomas Jefferson
On Thu, 28 May 2009 03:44:49 -0700 (PDT), Daniel Horowitz
<dydhorow...@gmail.com> wrote: >Give it a try and let me know your opinion. >Did someone already use it??
I discovered that my family trees had been moved there from GenCircles (and they didn't ask me first).
But now they keep nagging me that my family trees are too big for my "plan" (the free one). But since they put them there without asking me, I think that's their problem, not mine.
Steve Hayes wrote: > On Thu, 28 May 2009 03:44:49 -0700 (PDT), Daniel Horowitz > <dydhorow...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Give it a try and let me know your opinion. >> Did someone already use it??
> I discovered that my family trees had been moved there from GenCircles (and > they didn't ask me first).
> But now they keep nagging me that my family trees are too big for my "plan" > (the free one). But since they put them there without asking me, I think > that's their problem, not mine.
Daniel Horowitz wrote: > - You can customize your privacy level (from completely open to > completely private and in between) > - You invite family and friend to the site to do a collaborative job.
And anyone you invite can invite anyone else. Making privacy a total joke and making it inevitable that you will eventually have a member nobody wants.
> - Did I mention is free (till 500 people on the tree)
Thank you, Robert Heinlein! There is, indeed, no such thing as a free lunch.
Sci-Fi Ol' Bob
-- Robert G. Melson | Rio Grande MicroSolutions | El Paso, Texas ----- A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take away everything you have. Thomas Jefferson
I very much agree here. If a Web-based social networking site is owned by a company, then presumably they have a business model in mind which will generate an income at some point in time. Typically the business model is to offer services for free originally in order to build a large user base, have features that lock you into that site, so when some kind of charging for some/all services commences, you will think it easier to pay and stay rather than go to a competitor or drop out. The other model is to hope to support the site through on-line advertising.
For a genealogy sites of this nature, the kind of "lock-in features" relate to things like: * tree growth over a certain size incurs a fee (having invested so much effort in entering data, it seems easier to just pay the fee) * let each user create their tree for free, but flood them with email telling them of "close match" with another tree and charging a fee for the "access other people's tree" service * restriction on export of the data, especially export into GEDCOM -- in my view if you can't get back all your data that you have entered, be very afraid!
Because these sites are not generally built by genealogists, they generally don't even think about privacy issues until they start getting complaints. Then they retro-fit in some ham-fisted way. Remember that if these sites worry about privacy, it is generally arising from complaints by their members (from whom they hope to make money) -- I doubt these sites are at all concerned about the privacy of their non-members who appear in the trees of members. Having said that, genealogists as a group do not have a consistent set of views on privacy and information sharing and laws and norms vary between countries and cultures, so maybe I should not be too critical on that front.
And generally with any of these sites, there are always two big risks about which you can do nothing: * they can change the rules anytime they like (that's normally in the fine print somewhere) * they can simply cease operation any time they like (e.g. if it's not profitable enough)
So, even if you are thinking "no worries, I can export my data as GED any time I like", it will be of little use to you if you wake up the next day and find the site gone or that there is now a big fee to export your data. So I think if you use these sites, you have to be vigilant of the safety of your data by exporting it frequently. But of course the big attraction of many people to these sites is not needing to do backup, so I suspect most users don't export their data until it is "too late". Again, this is one of the big risks of "computing in the cloud" more generally. And of course there are risks to keeping your data locally on your desktop/laptop which you have to trade off against. No truly easy answers to any of this, other than the general observation that when you have something of value (and your family history research represents a lot of time and money on your part), you have to do risk management in order to protect that investment.
> I very much agree here. If a Web-based social networking site is owned > by a company, then presumably they have a business model in mind which > will generate an income at some point in time. Typically the business > model is to offer services for free originally in order to build a large > user base, have features that lock you into that site, so when some kind > of charging for some/all services commences, you will think it easier to > pay and stay rather than go to a competitor or drop out. The other model > is to hope to support the site through on-line advertising.
<snip, sorry Kerry>
There is a middle ground, of course. Bob and Wes, whose names I see here, are well aware of this, as (probably) are others.
This is in 2 parts:
1. Maintain a full copy of your tree at home (with all the usual caveats about b/u). This is your prime copy. 2. Rent your own web space. There you can stash plain web pages, TNG, phpGedView...whatever you want, and to whatever degree of public/private access you want. This is your secondary copy.
As for posting to Geni, even in a privatised way, I'm a bit surprised at Steve. He's an old hand at this sort of stuff. </end_lecture>
Now, if the web space principal goes feral, you still have your data, whatever you posted is probably history anyway (no pun intended) and there are other spaces available. You are not at risk, apart from losing the time to do it all again somewhere else.
That may be simplistic, but that's my 'business model'!
Paul Blair wrote: > 1. Maintain a full copy of your tree at home (with all the usual caveats > about b/u). This is your prime copy. > 2. Rent your own web space. There you can stash plain web pages, TNG, > phpGedView...whatever you want, and to whatever degree of public/private > access you want. This is your secondary copy.
Pretty close to my approach. However, much as I like PhpGEDView, I am NOT getting the collaboration from relatives that I had hoped for.
Outfits like MyHeritage and Geni have great user interfaces. That's all most people see. My reasons for using PhpGedView and not Geni (etc.) are completely irrelevant to 90% of the folks I would like to get help from.
-- Wes Groleau
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^ A UNIX signature isn't a return address, it's the ASCII equivalent ^ ^ of a black velvet clown painting. It's a rectangle of carets ^ ^ surrounding a quote from a literary giant of weeniedom like ^ ^ Heinlein or Dr. Who. ^ ^ -- Chris Maeda ^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Paul Blair wrote: >> 1. Maintain a full copy of your tree at home (with all the usual caveats >> about b/u). This is your prime copy. >> 2. Rent your own web space. There you can stash plain web pages, TNG, >> phpGedView...whatever you want, and to whatever degree of public/private >> access you want. This is your secondary copy.
> Pretty close to my approach. However, much as I like PhpGEDView, > I am NOT getting the collaboration from relatives that I had hoped for.
> Outfits like MyHeritage and Geni have great user interfaces. > That's all most people see. My reasons for using PhpGedView > and not Geni (etc.) are completely irrelevant to 90% of the > folks I would like to get help from.
> -- > Wes Groleau
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I'd have to agree with Wes here. I don't have bunches of (mostly) kin folks pounding on my door begging for access to my pGV-based web-site, and of those who _do_ collaborate, many find the user interface more than a bit intimidating. I'm happy to provide the opportunity, though, and feel I've benefited from what collaboration there has been.
The other side of the coin is that most of the folks who visit my site are thoroughly fed up with the limitations of, e.g., geni.com and MyHeritage or have run up against the need to spin three times widdershins in order to get anything done on Ancestry.
Me, I'm a cheap SOB and don't look at all kindly on any of the pay-to-play so-called services.
Parenthetically, I started using pGV at a time when ascii-only lifelines was about the only genealogy application for unix/unix-like systems. pGV and, later, TNG both promised to be more useful/usable than what was then available. There still isn't a lot, but what's now available - gramps, pGV, TNG, GeneWeb, some of the java-based apps and interfaces - is both well designed and robust, with pretty good support despite being open-source or, at worst, share-ware.
Stingy Ol' Bob
-- Robert G. Melson | Rio Grande MicroSolutions | El Paso, Texas ----- A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take away everything you have. Thomas Jefferson
