>> Can anyone think of an avenue that I have overlooked ? Any floating >> straws will be clutched at eagerly :-)
> have you looked at this one, which might be a mis-indexing ? > Births Jun 1846
> RICHARDS Robert Richardson * Sunderland 24* > I have no idea whether it's in an appropriate registration district, > but if you are clutching at straws...;)
> I haven't looked in the 1851 census to see if there is a Robert R Richards.
I think you may well have cracked it. Looking at the image - it is at bottom of the page and VERY difficult to read.. The transcriber has asterisked it as uncertain. Where Robert Richardson is written in the forenames there is further (unreadable) text.
(I can't see where the transcriber got the 24* for a district number)
I can't find a matching Robert Richards born in that area in that timescale in the 1851 Census.
You may have to look even further than 1 quarter after the supposed birth.
I have a 2x ggf born on 29 January 1854 but who wasn't registered until June 8 1854 for some reason. I'll never know why it wasn't registered for 5 months - he was born in Swansea and baptised 3 weeks after his birth. It is posisble I suppose that both parents thought that the other had done it and it only discovered later than noone had done it!
Regards Mel Morris
"Tickettyboo" <ticketty...@mail2oops.com> wrote in message
>I have a scan of a baptism record from 1846, child Robert Richardson >baptised 19th Nov 1846, at Barnard Castle, Durham, son of Thomas >Richardson, occ. Brick and Tile Maker and his wife Mary, abode Spring >Gardens, Barnard Castle Moor, no birth date mentioned.
> Every census from 1851 to 1881 gives his birth place as Barnard Castle and > his age given on census returns tallies with being born in 1846, all > entries have father as Thomas , brick maker or brick and tile maker and > mother as Mary. Next oldest ( known) sibling was born in the June quarter > of 1844 so he 'must' have been born between then and 18th Nov 1846 when he > was baptised.
> His marriage cert age given tallies with him being born in 1846.
> I don't have his death cert, but he died in a pit explosion in 1885 along > with 40 odd other men and there is a memorial with his name on and the age > on that tallies wth him being born in 1846. > Explosion was widely reported so I know his exact date of death.
> I have seen a family tree on ancestry which has this person in it and > there is a d.ob. of 6th Oct 1846 , have contacted the owner of the tree > who says he has marriage and death certs but not birth cert ( have tried > mailing again to ask if he will tell me where he got the birth date - > ? possibly from the death cert or maybe from family lore ).
> GRO index has six Robert Richardsons in Dec quarter of 1846, one in Mar > 1847. I have had all but two of those checked by GRO / local registrars, > none match with a father called Thomas, Mother called Mary. ( I discounted > the entry registered in Reigate and in desperation will ask the local > registrar to check the one in Wigton in Cumbria) > I would have expected the birth to be registered in Teesdale district ( > other baptisms on the same page were registered there) Local registrar > kindly checked the name for 1843-1848 for me, none born in Barnard Castle > , none with a mother called Mary.
> I even spotted a Robert with the surname Robinson ( which was his mother's > maiden name) in the right district/quarter and the loacl registrar was > kind enough to ckeck that out too, just in case .. no joy.
> BTW I can't praise the various local registrars enough, though they are > very busy people they have been wonderfully helpful.
> I hate to give up, but am starting to think this child's birth was not > registered anywhere. > I will get the death cert to see if it holds any clues, but will wait and > see what response I get from my contact with the tree first, besides, the > info for the memorial would most probably have come from the same source > as that on the death cert so I am doubtful that it would be any more/less > reliable.
> All of this has taken hours and hours over a period of months, how I yearn > for a system like the Scottish one where the searching can be done online > and > Can anyone think of an avenue that I have overlooked ? Any floating straws > will be clutched at eagerly :-)
On Thu, 10 Jul 2008 23:43:05 GMT, Jeff <jorg...@hotmail.com> wrote: >Anne Chambers wrote: >> Tickettyboo wrote:
>>> Can anyone think of an avenue that I have overlooked ? Any floating >>> straws will be clutched at eagerly :-)
>> have you looked at this one, which might be a mis-indexing ? >> Births Jun 1846
>> RICHARDS Robert Richardson * Sunderland 24* >> I have no idea whether it's in an appropriate registration district, >> but if you are clutching at straws...;)
>> I haven't looked in the 1851 census to see if there is a Robert R Richards.
>I think you may well have cracked it. Looking at the image - it is at >bottom of the page and VERY difficult to read.. The transcriber has >asterisked it as uncertain. Where Robert Richardson is written in the >forenames there is further (unreadable) text.
>(I can't see where the transcriber got the 24* for a district number)
>I can't find a matching Robert Richards born in that area in that >timescale in the 1851 Census.
The asterisks look more likely to indicate that for any reason not all the detail has been reproduced in a third party index (while the page number is uncertain, the name does not seem so). The page image I'm looking at seems to read :- Richards Robert Richardson Gauntlett Sunderland XXIV 350
The page is stained/marked at the RH corner and the last two characters of XXIV and the first character of 350 might be altered by the defect.
> Tickettyboo wrote: >> I have a scan of a baptism record from 1846, child Robert Richardson >> baptised 19th Nov 1846, at Barnard Castle, Durham, son of Thomas >> Richardson, occ. Brick and Tile Maker and his wife Mary, abode Spring >> Gardens, Barnard Castle Moor, no birth date mentioned.
>> Every census from 1851 to 1881 gives his birth place as Barnard Castle >> and his age given on census returns tallies with being born in 1846, all >> entries have father as Thomas , brick maker or brick and tile maker and >> mother as Mary. Next oldest ( known) sibling was born in the June quarter >> of 1844 so he 'must' have been born between then and 18th Nov 1846 when >> he was baptised.
>> His marriage cert age given tallies with him being born in 1846.
>> I don't have his death cert, but he died in a pit explosion in 1885 along >> with 40 odd other men and there is a memorial with his name on and the >> age on that tallies wth him being born in 1846. >> Explosion was widely reported so I know his exact date of death.
>> I have seen a family tree on ancestry which has this person in it and >> there is a d.ob. of 6th Oct 1846 , have contacted the owner of the tree >> who says he has marriage and death certs but not birth cert ( have tried >> mailing again to ask if he will tell me where he got the birth date - >> ? possibly from the death cert or maybe from family lore ).
>> GRO index has six Robert Richardsons in Dec quarter of 1846, one in Mar >> 1847. I have had all but two of those checked by GRO / local registrars, >> none match with a father called Thomas, Mother called Mary. ( I >> discounted the entry registered in Reigate and in desperation will ask >> the local registrar to check the one in Wigton in Cumbria) >> I would have expected the birth to be registered in Teesdale district ( >> other baptisms on the same page were registered there) Local registrar >> kindly checked the name for 1843-1848 for me, none born in Barnard Castle >> , none with a mother called Mary.
>> I even spotted a Robert with the surname Robinson ( which was his >> mother's maiden name) in the right district/quarter and the loacl >> registrar was kind enough to ckeck that out too, just in case .. no joy.
>> BTW I can't praise the various local registrars enough, though they are >> very busy people they have been wonderfully helpful.
>> I hate to give up, but am starting to think this child's birth was not >> registered anywhere. >> I will get the death cert to see if it holds any clues, but will wait >> and see what response I get from my contact with the tree first, besides, >> the info for the memorial would most probably have come from the same >> source as that on the death cert so I am doubtful that it would be any >> more/less reliable.
>> All of this has taken hours and hours over a period of months, how I >> yearn for a system like the Scottish one where the searching can be done >> online and >> Can anyone think of an avenue that I have overlooked ? Any floating >> straws will be clutched at eagerly :-)
> Have you looked earlier in '46? There's one in Morpeth in Sep & one in > Stockton in June. Not exactly Teesdale but at least in the right county.
Yes, but they both drew blanks, thanks for looking :-)
>> Can anyone think of an avenue that I have overlooked ? Any floating >> straws will be clutched at eagerly :-)
> have you looked at this one, which might be a mis-indexing ? > Births Jun 1846
> RICHARDS Robert Richardson * Sunderland 24* > I have no idea whether it's in an appropriate registration district, but > if you are clutching at straws...;)
Well spotted ! Thank you I will follow that up. Sunderland isn't exactly on the doorstep, but it is within the area. These people did seem to get around the county so its a definite possible :-)
> "Tickettyboo" <ticketty...@mail2oops.com> wrote in message > news:6dn05rF3dreoU1@mid.individual.net... >>I have a scan of a baptism record from 1846, child Robert Richardson >>baptised 19th Nov 1846, at Barnard Castle, Durham, son of Thomas >>Richardson, occ. Brick and Tile Maker and his wife Mary, abode Spring >>Gardens, Barnard Castle Moor, no birth date mentioned.
> Is the mention of child unusual in those baptisms? If so, that may imply > he was not a baby.
Sorry 'child' was my wording not the wording in the baptism register. There is no indication of birth date or anything to infer that he was other than a new born ( though I agree he may have been older)
>> Every census from 1851 to 1881 gives his birth place as Barnard Castle >> and his age given on census returns tallies with being born in 1846, all >> entries have father as Thomas , brick maker or brick and tile maker and >> mother as Mary. Next oldest ( known) sibling was born in the June quarter >> of 1844 so he 'must' have been born between then and 18th Nov 1846 when >> he was baptised.
> Assuming that was the right age order and that it is that sibling's birth > which is registered then, it's not likely that Robert was born in 1844. > If sibling was registered a bit late and born the previous quarter then > Robert might just have been born before he end of the year.
Point taken , will review that.
>> I don't have his death cert, but he died in a pit explosion in 1885 along >> with 40 odd other men and there is a memorial with his name on and the >> age on that tallies wth him being born in 1846. >> Explosion was widely reported so I know his exact date of death.
> Was that before or after his birthday that year? > If his birth year was calculated by just subtracting the age from the year > and he hadn't had the birthday, then the birth year could be the year > before.
Yes, the date of death was March ( and I believe that he was born later in the year) The census returns tally with him being born between March 1846 and March 1847, The age on the memorial may be out by a year, as you said if they just subtract then it can vary, but for that the info would 'definitely' not have come from him but from perhaps a relative or friend so I have treated that with a bit of caution.
<snip>
>> Can anyone think of an avenue that I have overlooked ? Any floating >> straws will be clutched at eagerly :-)
> FreeBMD has a birth Robinson RICHARDSON registered Darlington, > Sep qtr 1845 > and a birth Bob RICHARDSON, registered Easingwold, Sep qtr 1846
> You may have to look even further than 1 quarter after the supposed birth.
> I have a 2x ggf born on 29 January 1854 but who wasn't registered until > June 8 1854 for some reason. > I'll never know why it wasn't registered for 5 months - he was born in > Swansea and baptised 3 weeks after his birth. It is posisble I suppose > that both parents thought that the other had done it and it only > discovered later than noone had done it!
"Geoff Pearson" (gspearson1...@hotmail.com) writes: > "Tickettyboo" <ticketty...@mail2oops.com> wrote in message > news:6dn05rF3dreoU1@mid.individual.net... >>I have a scan of a baptism record from 1846, child Robert Richardson >>baptised 19th Nov 1846, at Barnard Castle, Durham, son of Thomas >>Richardson, occ. Brick and Tile Maker and his wife Mary, abode Spring >>Gardens, Barnard Castle Moor, no birth date mentioned.
>> Every census from 1851 to 1881 gives his birth place as Barnard Castle and >> his age given on census returns tallies with being born in 1846, all >> entries have father as Thomas , brick maker or brick and tile maker and >> mother as Mary. Next oldest ( known) sibling was born in the June quarter >> of 1844 so he 'must' have been born between then and 18th Nov 1846 when he >> was baptised.
>> His marriage cert age given tallies with him being born in 1846.
>> I don't have his death cert, but he died in a pit explosion in 1885 along >> with 40 odd other men and there is a memorial with his name on and the age >> on that tallies wth him being born in 1846. >> Explosion was widely reported so I know his exact date of death.
>> I have seen a family tree on ancestry which has this person in it and >> there is a d.ob. of 6th Oct 1846 , have contacted the owner of the tree >> who says he has marriage and death certs but not birth cert ( have tried >> mailing again to ask if he will tell me where he got the birth date - >> ? possibly from the death cert or maybe from family lore ).
>> GRO index has six Robert Richardsons in Dec quarter of 1846, one in Mar >> 1847. I have had all but two of those checked by GRO / local registrars, >> none match with a father called Thomas, Mother called Mary. ( I discounted >> the entry registered in Reigate and in desperation will ask the local >> registrar to check the one in Wigton in Cumbria) >> I would have expected the birth to be registered in Teesdale district ( >> other baptisms on the same page were registered there) Local registrar >> kindly checked the name for 1843-1848 for me, none born in Barnard Castle >> , none with a mother called Mary.
>> I even spotted a Robert with the surname Robinson ( which was his mother's >> maiden name) in the right district/quarter and the loacl registrar was >> kind enough to ckeck that out too, just in case .. no joy.
>> BTW I can't praise the various local registrars enough, though they are >> very busy people they have been wonderfully helpful.
>> I hate to give up, but am starting to think this child's birth was not >> registered anywhere. >> I will get the death cert to see if it holds any clues, but will wait and >> see what response I get from my contact with the tree first, besides, the >> info for the memorial would most probably have come from the same source >> as that on the death cert so I am doubtful that it would be any more/less >> reliable.
>> All of this has taken hours and hours over a period of months, how I yearn >> for a system like the Scottish one where the searching can be done online >> and >> Can anyone think of an avenue that I have overlooked ? Any floating straws >> will be clutched at eagerly :-)
>> -- >> Ticketty᧧
> My grandfather's birth in 1884 is not registered - even though that was > illegal by then.
I have a letter from one District Registry Office (which shall remain unidentified) from which I will quote:
"There is evidence that, despite the intention that the civil registration apply universally, up to fifteen percent of births after 1847 were not registered. This was particularly the case for the period before 1874 during which time there were penalties for registering late, but no penalties for not registering at all".
> "C Rihan" <csrihan.no.s...@thank.you.btopenworld.com> wrote in message > news:Of6dnbNcMtvI6evVnZ2dnUVZ8qjinZ2d@bt.com... > Yes, the date of death was March ( and I believe that he was born later in > the year) The census returns tally with him being born between March 1846 > and March 1847, The age on the memorial may be out by a year, as you said > if they just subtract then it can vary, but for that the info would > 'definitely' not have come from him but from perhaps a relative or friend > so I have treated that with a bit of caution.
Looking at the Familysearch 1881 index, I see his age in 1881 was given as 35. So if his birthday was after the census was taken (eg October as suggested) , he would be 36 later in the year, and born 1845.
Looking at FreeBMD deaths in 1885, the Robert about the right age was registered June qtr Chester Le Street and age 39. So again, if that's before his birthday, he would be 40 later in that year, and born 1845.
Thanks to evryone for their input and suggestions, I will be following them all up. I have recieved mail from the contact i mentioned who had a definite date on the Ancestry tree. I now have a scan of an old family bible page which lists all the members of this family along with birth and ( some) death dates. I am thrilled ! It was extrememly kind of the gentleman to let me have it , though I started with giving him access to all the documents I have. I have no problem with letting anyone have access to any documents I have obtained, I formly believe in sharing stuff :-) I will have my work cut out for a while, going over this scan and comparing it to what I have found out then doing more work to see if I can further verify/ discount anything else. The birth date for the person in question is clearly down as 6th Oct 1846. I may not ever get a birth cert, I know that family bible info may not be reliable, but I am still really pleased to have it. On with the chase !
> The birth date for the person in question is clearly down as 6th Oct 1846. I > may not ever get a birth cert, I know that family bible info may not be > reliable, but I am still really pleased to have it.
In my case the family bible from my mothers side (well maternal side as is starts with my 2nd ggmother maternal and her husband) was at least accurate to within a month. In some cases they were indeed a week or the like of in exact date (if the registered one is called the exact one). I call that pretty accurate for some in those times hardly ever celebrating a birthday. That bible started my research ...... hopelessly infected by the genealogy virus now.
> I'm curious as to whether the Bible gave a place of birth, thus, as you > know, opening up the possibility of trying the local registration office?
Unfortunately not :-( but I do have the baptism record from the Bishops Transcripts for Durham and it is 'definitely' the right one. All through his life in official stuff like census returns his place of birth is given as Barnard Castle Moor, Co. Durham. Have had a quick peek ( its mid day here and I should be elsewhwere but couldn't resist looking) and can verify three of the children's birth dates so far from BTs ( date, parents names and father's occupation all check out) There may be more info in this Bible , but atm I have a lot to be going on with and don't want to bombard this nice man with a load of queries. I hesitate to push folks kindness too far :-)
