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  Messages 26 - 48 of 48 - Collapse all  -  Translate all to Translated (View all originals) < Older 
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Phil C.  
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 More options Jun 10 2008, 6:18 am
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.britain, alt.genealogy
From: Phil C. <philsuse...@fsmail.net>
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 11:18:24 +0100
Local: Tues, Jun 10 2008 6:18 am
Subject: Re: handwriting help needed
On Mon, 9 Jun 2008 23:23:34 +0000 (UTC), Dennis Ahern

Given his basic literacy, it could be a misspelling of "brightness" or
whatever. FWIW "briskness" would fit very well in the context of the
times if he's talking about the jolly camaraderie or the efficiency of
the army

 
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Phil C.  
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 More options Jun 10 2008, 6:40 am
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.britain, alt.genealogy
From: Phil C. <philsuse...@fsmail.net>
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 11:40:22 +0100
Local: Tues, Jun 10 2008 6:40 am
Subject: Re: handwriting help needed
On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 11:18:24 +0100, Phil C. <philsuse...@fsmail.net>
wrote:

That was sent too soon in error. I was going to add the full
definition given by my Imperial Dictionary of 1850 (British but based
on Webster's).
"BRISKNESS n. Liveliness; vigour in action; quickness; gaiety;
vivacity; effervescence of liquors."
It fits very well with _some_ interpretations of the second part of
the sentence but I wouldn't push it as correct.

Is it known, by the way, whether he did make it home?
--
Phil C.


 
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Dennis Ahern  
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 More options Jun 10 2008, 11:52 am
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.britain, alt.genealogy
From: Dennis Ahern <ah...@world.std.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 15:52:29 +0000 (UTC)
Local: Tues, Jun 10 2008 11:52 am
Subject: Re: handwriting help needed
In soc.genealogy.britain Phil C. <philsuse...@fsmail.net> wrote:

: Is it known, by the way, whether he did make it home?

Yes, he served through the War and returned home without injury. In a
letter written a few weeks after the one in the sample, having slept out
in the rain on Federal Hill in Baltimore and days guarding the rail line
between Baltimore and Washington, he says to his uncle to discourage his
cousin Dan from enlisting with the words "Tell Dan it is not such prety
[sic] work to be a soldier as it is to play one." His cousin Dan did
enlist and was killed at the battle of Antietam. His father was searching
for him after that battle and wrote home to that effect not knowing that
his wife had already been notified of their son's demise in battle.

-dja


 
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Texas Gen  
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 More options Jun 10 2008, 12:38 pm
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.britain, alt.genealogy
From: "Texas Gen" <texas....@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 11:38:10 -0500
Local: Tues, Jun 10 2008 12:38 pm
Subject: Re: handwriting help needed

James wrote:
> Thanks for the bigger sample. It certainly doesn't contradict the
> suggested reading as "the Richness of the Buildings", which makes very
> good sense in the context (the letter was written in the Senate) and
> which allows for plausible matches letter for letter.

Before I read your post, "Richness of the Buildings" is what I thought also.
I spent quite a while trying to decipher, including pulling it into
Photoshop to enhance a bit.  Comparison of other letter samples, etc.----and
it flows with the context.  Mentioning the people and then calling attention
to the strangeness/beauty of the surroundings seems natural.

I considered the first word might be "Bickering," but then I couldn't
decipher a second word that would flow with that.  I also considered
"Business" (as in business of the government), but finally decided "Richness
of the Buildings" was the probable phrase.

Donna


 
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Don Kirkman  
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 More options Jun 10 2008, 2:58 pm
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.britain
From: Don Kirkman <dons...@charter.net>
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 11:58:38 -0700
Local: Tues, Jun 10 2008 2:58 pm
Subject: Re: handwriting help needed
It seems to me I heard somewhere that Josiah Jenkins wrote in article
<ii4q44lvvr2j814qac85u88knite6ud...@4ax.com>:

Yes, I think "redoubts" is the best fit for the context and the text, though I
admit I don't know how the writer actually spelled it.  :-)  I only today found
the expanded copy with much more text for comparison.

And seeing the writer's penchant for capitalization I don't think we need to
read too much into the "Grand Army;" given the massing of troops it might have
been "grand army" might have been common usage among the troops and citizens in
Washington.


 
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JJ206  
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 More options Jun 10 2008, 7:11 pm
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.britain, alt.genealogy
From: JJ206 <jj...@remooooooooooooooovethisdrizzle.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 16:11:33 -0700
Local: Tues, Jun 10 2008 7:11 pm
Subject: Re: handwriting help needed

After inverting the image with software, and reading what other people
have guessed, I am guessing it is "Briskness of the Grand Army". I guess
I am wondering how quickly they marched back then and if the drill
sargents were told to train the troops to march a brisk step ?

If you invert the image, it does not at all look like Buildings and I am
not sure why someone would capitalize buildings anyway. But then why
capitalize Briskness either ? So Briskness does not seem to fit either,
so it might be a last name or perhaps an inside joke or reference.

I do wonder if I am seeing a letter strike out in the first word. The
second to last letter being the strike out which may be confusing the
matter.

Jonathan M.


 
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Phil C.  
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 More options Jun 11 2008, 5:54 am
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.britain, alt.genealogy
From: Phil C. <philsuse...@fsmail.net>
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 10:54:27 +0100
Local: Wed, Jun 11 2008 5:54 am
Subject: Re: handwriting help needed
On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 15:52:29 +0000 (UTC), Dennis Ahern

<ah...@world.std.com> wrote:
>In soc.genealogy.britain Phil C. <philsuse...@fsmail.net> wrote:

>: Is it known, by the way, whether he did make it home?

>Yes, he served through the War and returned home without injury. In a
>letter written a few weeks after the one in the sample, having slept out
>in the rain on Federal Hill in Baltimore and days guarding the rail line
>between Baltimore and Washington, he says to his uncle to discourage his
>cousin Dan from enlisting with the words "Tell Dan it is not such prety
>[sic] work to be a soldier as it is to play one."

My wife's got a letter from a relative by marriage from WWI expressing
similar sentiments. It must have slipped past the censors.

>His cousin Dan did
>enlist and was killed at the battle of Antietam. His father was searching
>for him after that battle and wrote home to that effect not knowing that
>his wife had already been notified of their son's demise in battle.

A quick look at the order of battle tells me that Fred Crouch would
have been on the other side at Antietam with the First Company,
Richmond Howitzers. It was evidently the bloodiest day in American
history.
--
Phil C.

 
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singhals  
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 More options Jun 11 2008, 12:25 pm
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.britain, alt.genealogy
From: singhals <singh...@erols.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 12:25:13 -0400
Local: Wed, Jun 11 2008 12:25 pm
Subject: Re: handwriting help needed

You could all be right, but, to play devil's advocate --

I dislike "redoubt" largely because I don't remember there
being redoubts around the Capitol Building ... There were
redoubts up near Western/Eastern Aves -- Ft Stevens, Ft
Reno, Ft Totten (and the other 4), yes, mentioned often, but
I'm not recalling any mention of any on the Capitol grounds.

One of these might know --

http://civilwarfortifications.com/

or

http://www.historydc.org/

Nor am I enamoured of "Richness of the Buildings" because
unless this kid was from the far toolies/boonies, I'm not
sure what he would have thought was so rich -- historydc has
a picture of the view from the Capitol to the White House in
the 1840s.

FWIW.

Cheryl


 
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Dennis Ahern  
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 More options Jun 11 2008, 1:41 pm
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.britain, alt.genealogy
From: Dennis Ahern <ah...@world.std.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 17:41:16 +0000 (UTC)
Local: Wed, Jun 11 2008 1:41 pm
Subject: Re: handwriting help needed
In soc.genealogy.britain singhals <singh...@erols.com> wrote:

: I dislike "redoubt" largely because I don't remember there
: being redoubts around the Capitol Building ... There were
: redoubts up near Western/Eastern Aves -- Ft Stevens, Ft
: Reno, Ft Totten (and the other 4), yes, mentioned often, but
: I'm not recalling any mention of any on the Capitol grounds.

A photo of another militia unit drawn up in front of the Capitol in April
1861 does not show any redoubts. The letter in question having been
written only a week after Fort Sumter, I rather doubt there were any
redoubts under construction. Lincoln and his cabinet, by the way, had
chosen the patent office building to make their last stand as it was made
of brick and had deep set windows.

-dja


 
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James Hogg  
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 More options Jun 11 2008, 2:14 pm
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.britain, alt.genealogy
From: James Hogg <Jas.Hogg...@SPAM.gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 20:14:33 +0200
Local: Wed, Jun 11 2008 2:14 pm
Subject: Re: handwriting help needed
On Wed, 11 Jun 2008 17:41:16 +0000 (UTC), Dennis Ahern

<ah...@world.std.com> wrote:
>In soc.genealogy.britain singhals <singh...@erols.com> wrote:

>: I dislike "redoubt" largely because I don't remember there
>: being redoubts around the Capitol Building ... There were
>: redoubts up near Western/Eastern Aves -- Ft Stevens, Ft
>: Reno, Ft Totten (and the other 4), yes, mentioned often, but
>: I'm not recalling any mention of any on the Capitol grounds.

>A photo of another militia unit drawn up in front of the Capitol in April
>1861 does not show any redoubts. The letter in question having been
>written only a week after Fort Sumter, I rather doubt there were any
>redoubts under construction. Lincoln and his cabinet, by the way, had
>chosen the patent office building to make their last stand as it was made
>of brick and had deep set windows.

So, there were no redoubts in Washington, and no Grand Army, but there
were rich buildings and folks that would make Dan stare.

Shall we take a vote on the reading?

James


 
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Don Kirkman  
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 More options Jun 11 2008, 7:41 pm
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.britain
From: Don Kirkman <dons...@charter.net>
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 16:41:21 -0700
Local: Wed, Jun 11 2008 7:41 pm
Subject: Re: handwriting help needed
It seems to me I heard somewhere that Dennis Ahern wrote in article
<g2p2ns$l4...@pcls6.std.com>:

>In soc.genealogy.britain singhals <singh...@erols.com> wrote:

>: I dislike "redoubt" largely because I don't remember there
>: being redoubts around the Capitol Building ... There were
>: redoubts up near Western/Eastern Aves -- Ft Stevens, Ft
>: Reno, Ft Totten (and the other 4), yes, mentioned often, but
>: I'm not recalling any mention of any on the Capitol grounds.
>A photo of another militia unit drawn up in front of the Capitol in April
>1861 does not show any redoubts. The letter in question having been
>written only a week after Fort Sumter, I rather doubt there were any
>redoubts under construction. Lincoln and his cabinet, by the way, had
>chosen the patent office building to make their last stand as it was made
>of brick and had deep set windows.

Were there  any revetments?

 
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Hugh Watkins  
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 More options Jun 12 2008, 3:21 am
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.britain, alt.genealogy
From: Hugh Watkins <hugh.watk...@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 08:21:34 +0100
Local: Thurs, Jun 12 2008 3:21 am
Subject: Re: handwriting help needed

James Hogg wrote:
>snip
> Shall we take a vote on the reading?

research is not about consensus
he uses "i" for "I" and "B" for "b" consistently

the dot of the "i" is often displaced one letter to the right

he takes pains to distinguish between "r" and "s"

I would like to see a 300 dpi image before going further

Hugh W


 
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Phil C.  
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 More options Jun 12 2008, 7:15 am
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.britain
From: Phil C. <philsuse...@fsmail.net>
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 12:15:58 +0100
Local: Thurs, Jun 12 2008 7:15 am
Subject: Re: handwriting help needed
On Wed, 11 Jun 2008 16:41:21 -0700, Don Kirkman <dons...@charter.net>
wrote:

A lady came round with a tea trolley.

Oh... "revetments". I thought you said "refreshments".
--
Phil C.


 
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singhals  
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 More options Jun 12 2008, 4:28 pm
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.britain, alt.genealogy
From: singhals <singh...@erols.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 16:28:23 -0400
Local: Thurs, Jun 12 2008 4:28 pm
Subject: Re: handwriting help needed

I think some of us are having a problem erasing today's
image of downtown DC ... nearly every important building and
monument down there is a 20th c building.  It would NOT have
been there to impress him in 186x.  The Washington Monument
was there, was a 19th c construct, but in the 1860s it was
barely 150 ft high and incomplete.

 From what I've seen up in Boston, they had buildings very
similar to those in DC and Baltimore, so, again, unless the
writer of the letter was from the suburban boonies, there
wasn't much to impress him with the "richness of the
buildings" (plural).

It _might_ fit the Capitol building itself, but that would
then be "richness of the building" (singular).

Cheryl

REF:

The Supreme Court Building, constructed between 1932--1935,
was designed by noted architect Cass Gilbert, who is best
known as the architect for the ...National Park Service (NPS)

The main Library of Congress building was erected in 1897;
the library also occupies the Thomas Jefferson building,
formerly called the annex, ...sc94.ameslab.gov/TOUR/libcong.html

National Arboretum was finally established by Congress in
1927... NPS

The National Gallery of Art is an art museum, located on the
National Mall in Washington, D.C. The museum was established
in 1938 by the United States ... wikipedia

The Jefferson Memorial was officially dedicated in April
1943 on the occasion of the 200th anniversary of Thomas
Jefferson’s birth.  AIA


 
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Dennis Ahern  
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 More options Jun 13 2008, 8:47 am
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.britain, alt.genealogy
From: Dennis Ahern <ah...@world.std.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 12:47:27 +0000 (UTC)
Local: Fri, Jun 13 2008 8:47 am
Subject: Re: handwriting help needed
In soc.genealogy.britain singhals <singh...@erols.com> wrote:

:  From what I've seen up in Boston, they had buildings very
: similar to those in DC and Baltimore, so, again, unless the
: writer of the letter was from the suburban boonies, there
: wasn't much to impress him with the "richness of the
: buildings" (plural).

the writer was an 18-year-old farmhand from suburban acton. even today
there are no impressive buildings. he would have been impressed when they
marched past the state house in boston with its golden dome, compared to
the u.s. capitol with its unfinished dome. in new york city the regiment
was fed breakfast at the astoria hotel, which would have made the willard
hotel in washington look pretty shabby by comparison. i'm still inclined
to interpret the end of that line to read grand army, a term which was in
use during the war and not just in reference to the gar after the war.

-dja


 
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James Hogg  
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 More options Jun 13 2008, 9:51 am
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.britain, alt.genealogy
From: James Hogg <Jas.Hogg...@SPAM.gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 14:51:03 +0100
Local: Fri, Jun 13 2008 9:51 am
Subject: Re: handwriting help needed
On Fri, 13 Jun 2008 12:47:27 +0000 (UTC), Dennis Ahern

OK, I admit the weakness of "Richness of the Buildings". Would a
singular Building be more convincing in the historical context? The
last word is so faint that I could have imagined the s.

But I think that "Grand Army" is weak too, for the following
graphological reasons:

The writer otherwise leaves distinct spaces between words. This
definitely looks like one word.

The first letter doesn't look like the capital G in Gallery. It has no
descender.

The first letter doesn't like like his lowercase g either.

We have instances of a capital A, in April, After and Aunt. The letter
in the supposed Grand Army is not identical to these.

Advocates of Briskness should look at the word Brush and the loop on
all the lowercase r's.

Any chance of seeing another page of the letter?

James


 
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Texas Gen  
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 More options Jun 13 2008, 3:08 pm
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.britain, alt.genealogy
From: "Texas Gen" <texas....@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 14:08:01 -0500
Local: Fri, Jun 13 2008 3:08 pm
Subject: Re: handwriting help needed
Dear Original Poster:::::

You can't say we ignore a request for help!  Alt.genealogy can be an intense
group----although I do see that soc.genealogy.britain has gotten in on the
discussion.  A lot of handwriting expertise is floating around here.

Warmest Regards,

Donn


 
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Daniel Morgan  
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 More options Jun 13 2008, 5:20 pm
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.britain
From: Daniel Morgan <daniel.f.mor...@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 14:20:21 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Fri, Jun 13 2008 5:20 pm
Subject: Re: handwriting help needed
On Jun 9, 11:00 am, singhals <singh...@erols.com> wrote:

Could the "k" in the first word actually be part of a "d"?  It's not
very similar to the other k's, e.g. in Folks at the beginning of the
same line, and the vertical line together with the preceding loop look
a lot like the d in Bad, two lines down.

 
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Daniel Morgan  
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 More options Jun 13 2008, 5:25 pm
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.britain
From: Daniel Morgan <daniel.f.mor...@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 14:25:17 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Fri, Jun 13 2008 5:25 pm
Subject: Re: handwriting help needed
On Jun 13, 5:20 pm, Daniel Morgan <daniel.f.mor...@gmail.com> wrote:

Also I am doubtful about the "i" in the first word.  The dot looks
brown to me, like the stains, not black, like the other writing.  If
the second word is Grand Army, could the first be redeness (i.e.
readiness)?

 
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Anne Chambers  
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 More options Jun 13 2008, 5:40 pm
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.britain, alt.genealogy
From: Anne Chambers <a...@privacy.net>
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2008 07:10:18 +0930
Local: Fri, Jun 13 2008 5:40 pm
Subject: Re: handwriting help needed
Texas Gen wrote:
> Dear Original Poster:::::

> You can't say we ignore a request for help!  Alt.genealogy can be an intense
> group----although I do see that soc.genealogy.britain has gotten in on the
> discussion.  A lot of handwriting expertise is floating around here.

> Warmest Regards,

> Donn

It was originally posted to soc.genealogy britain and copied over to
alt.genealogy later ;)

--
Anne Chambers,
South Australia
anne dot chambers at bigpond dot com


 
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singhals  
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 More options Jun 13 2008, 10:22 pm
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.britain
From: singhals <singh...@erols.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 22:22:05 -0400
Local: Fri, Jun 13 2008 10:22 pm
Subject: Re: handwriting help needed

Even allowing for the idea that he's writing on a single
sheet of paper balanced on his thigh, without a solid
surface to support the paper, the major consistent thing
about this letter is that the writer is almost intentionally
inconsistent.

I'm beginning to wonder, Dennis, about the provenance?

Cheryl


 
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Dennis Ahern  
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 More options Jun 13 2008, 10:47 pm
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.britain
From: Dennis Ahern <ah...@world.std.com>
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2008 02:47:49 +0000 (UTC)
Local: Fri, Jun 13 2008 10:47 pm
Subject: Re: handwriting help needed

singhals <singh...@erols.com> wrote:

: I'm beginning to wonder, Dennis, about the provenance?

It is one of several letters given to the Library last year by a
descendant of the addressee. We have no reason to doubt its authenticity.
We also have the service record and pension file of the author.

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    Dennis Ahern, Trustee | Acton Memorial Library
    Acton, Massachusetts  | http://www.actonmemoriallibrary.org
    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -


 
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singhals  
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 More options Jun 14 2008, 10:31 am
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.britain
From: singhals <singh...@erols.com>
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2008 10:31:13 -0400
Local: Sat, Jun 14 2008 10:31 am
Subject: Re: handwriting help needed

Dennis Ahern wrote:
> singhals <singh...@erols.com> wrote:

> : I'm beginning to wonder, Dennis, about the provenance?

> It is one of several letters given to the Library last year by a
> descendant of the addressee. We have no reason to doubt its authenticity.
> We also have the service record and pension file of the author.

Thanks.  But it did look odd ... (g)

Cheryl


 
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