Albanian KLA Terrorists attack FYROM
Aggie-tom
[01] Greece condemns Albanian guerrilla attacks on FYROM border,
stresses solidarity
Athens, 06/03/2001 (ANA)
Greece on Monday expressed its grave concern over growing Albanian
separatist violence in Kosovo and the Former Yugoslav Republic of
Macedonia (FYROM), while stressing that Athens wants to contribute to
settling the crisis in every possible way.
"We will contribute in every way and wish to give every kind of
assistance to the neighboring country (FYROM)," Foreign ministry
spokesman Panos Beglitis told reporters only hours after the latest
border skirmish between Albanian guerrillas and FYROM soldiers, as well
as Bulgarias offer to its western neighbor of technical support.
The foreign ministrys statement came as Greek Foreign Minister George
Papandreou began a visit to Vienna, where the issue of growing Balkan
instability due to Kosovo-based violence initially dominated talks.
Officials reports out of Skopje noted that FYROMs security forces
exchanged fire with ethnic Albanian gunmen occupying a village on the
border with Kosovo, while shelling could be heard coming from near the
predominately Albanian remote mountain hamlet of Tanusevci.
Later wire reports stated that Albanian guerrillas had retreated from
the area back into Kosovo before ditching their weapons and distinctive
black uniforms.
On his part, Greek government spokesman Dimitris Reppas echoed the
foreign ministry, reiterating its condemnation of what he called "the
terrorist activity" by the Albanian guerrillas in the region, while
saying Athens was ready back FYROM's efforts for peace in the region.
Reppas added that Athens would also bring the matter before various
international organizations and demand that International Law is
applied.
Amid the growing concern about guerrilla activity on FYROM's northern
border, Reppas mentioned that the "name issue" - the last outstanding
difference preventing a full normalization of already excellent
relations between Athens and Skopje - does not affect current
developments, although they may delineate the issue within "its proper
dimensions", on the part of Skopje.
Foreign ministry: Beglitis, meanwhile, said Papandreou was in constant
contact with officials in FYROM and with the EU's Swedish presidency.
Stressing Greece's support for territorial integrity and security in
the region, the foreign ministry spokesman said the international
community should accord the matter the due seriousness and should send
a clear message that uncontrollable situations would not be tolerated.
The government in Skopje, he added, had been in touch with Athens and
asked for assistance in dealing with the actions of Albanian
extremists. Skopje had also asked for the UN Security Council to be
convened.
The spokesman said that Athens was in favor of the full implementation
of resolution 1244, because instability in the region undermined
territorial integrity and affected Greece's interests as well.
In addition, he said Greece was adamant in its support for FYROM's
borders during talks with EU and NATO officials. According to Beglitis,
this was also one of the key issues discussed by Papandreou in his
recent meeting with new US Secretary of State Colin Powell on the
sidelines of a NATO foreign ministers' meeting.
Bulgaria: Sofia condemned the activities of Albanian guerrillas for a
second straight day on Monday although the defense ministry clarified
that the idea of dispatching troops to neighboring FYROM is not
planned, an ANA dispatch from the Bulgarian capital reported.
In a telephone conversion, Bulgarian Prime Minister Ivan Kostov
reportedly conveyed Sofia's "complete solidarity" to his FYROM
counterpart Ljubco Georgievski as regards the territorial integrity of
the latter's state.
Bulgarian Defense Minister Boyko Noev clarified that no military
assistance has been requested by FYROM, which he said is able to
protect its borders. He also said Bulgarian forces had not been placed
on a higher alert due to the skirmish.
[02] FYROM to request from UN security zone in Kosovo
SKOPJE, 06/03/2001 (ANA - M. Vichou)
The Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia (FYROM) will call on the UN
Security Council to agree to a five kilometer security zone in the
territory of Kosovo and the deployment of a multinational force there,
FYROM Prime Minister Ljubco Georgievski said after an emergency cabinet
meeting.
Georgievski openly criticized the international peacekeeping force
(KFOR), saying that "such events would have been avoided if KFOR had
been active in the region."
He said he had telephone conversations with the prime ministers of
neighboring countries who promised him technical aid to resolve the
crisis.
Referring in particular to Greek Prime Minister Costas Simitis, he said
"Greece is undertaking a strong diplomatic initiative for a solution to
be found to the crisis which has broken out on his country's northern
borders."
Meanwhile, the defense ministry's spokesman conceded that a partial
mobilization of security forces reserves has taken place.
The borders between Kosovo and FYROM have remained closed as of 1 p.m.
on Sunday and only citizens of FYROM are allowed to return to their
country.
Tsohatzopoulos calls for UN Security Council convening on FYROM
incidents: National Defense Minister Akis Tsohatzopoulos on Monday
requested that the United Nations Security Council convenes
"immediately" to examine the situation in the Former Yugoslav Republic
of Macedonia (FYROM) after attacks by Kosovo Albanian guerrillas
against FYROM soldiers.
Tsohatzopoulos also requested the creation of a security zone between
FYROM and Kosovo.
Reiterating Greek positions for the inviolability of borders in the
Balkan peninsula, Tsohatzopoulos also called on the international
community to insist on the 1244 UN resolution, so that "extremism
coming from certain circles of the Albanian side be answered by clear
policies".
The defense minister was speaking during an event in central Athens.
[03] FM Papandreou to arrive in Skopje on Tuesday due to tension in the
area
VIENNA, 06/03/2001 (ANA - D. Dimitrakoudis)
Foreign Minister George Papandreou will arrive in Skopje, in the Former
Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia (FYROM), on Tuesday from Vienna where he
had arrived on Sunday on a three-day official visit to Austria, due to
tension prevailing in the area and following consultations with Prime
Minister Costas Simitis.
Speaking to the Athens News Agency (ANA) in Vienna, Papandreou
said he will convey to FYROM's leadership the discussions he had with
the Austrian political and state leadership and recently in the
framework of other international organizations, as well as those he had
in Vienna on Monday with the OSCE's "troika." Namely, the leaders of
the permanent delegations of Austria, Romania and Portugal, at the
organizations headquarters in the Austrian capital, to examine the
possibilities of the contribution of all to defusing the crisis.
Papandreou said problems in the Balkans couldnt be resolved with force,
adding that solutions will come through dialogue, through respect for
international law and through the joint cooperation of all countries
and communities.
Greece's Balkan policy and the crisis in the Balkans, particularly in
southern Serbia and FYROM, were discussed in Papandreou's meeting with
Austrian Chancellor Wolfgang Schuessel.
Papandreou said his "very useful and constructive" talks with Schuessel
focused on the accession course of European Union candidate countries,
the problem of Cyprus and relations between Turkey and Europe.
Austria's particular interest in cooperation in light of the 2004
Athens Olympic Games and its support for Greece's idea for an Olympic
Truce and a Cultural Olympiad were also discussed.
Chancellor Schuessel asked Papandreou to convey to Prime Minister
Costas Simitis his invitation for a visit to Austria.
Talks Papandreou had with Austrian Parliament President Heinz Fischer
and main opposition Socialdemocrat Party leader Alfred Gusenbauer
focused on the Cyprus issue, Cyprus's EU accession course and problems
in the Balkans.
FM Papandreou contacts Colin Powell on FYROM incidents: Foreign
Minister George Papandreou will make an emergency visit to Skopje, in
the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia (FYROM), from Vienna on
Tuesday for consultations with FYROM President Boris Trajkovski and
Prime Minister Ljubco Georgievski on the tense situation created on the
country's northern border with Kosovo, following attacks by Albanian
extremists.
Late in the afternoon on Monday, Papandreou telephoned to US Secretary
of State Colin Powell, whom he briefed on his visit to Skopje and on
the positions of Athens on the crisis in the region.
According to diplomatic sources at the foreign ministry, Powell said he
agrees absolutely with the Greek approach on the need for the
international community to send a strong message on the inviolability
of borders and FYROM's territorial integrity, as well as on the
immediate strengthening of KFOR's role in checking Kosovo's borders
both with FYROM and southern Serbia.
Government sources also disclosed that FYROM Prime Minister Ljubco
Georgievski telephoned to Prime Minister Costas Simitis and called for
the activation of Athens in handling the tense situation created in the
region.
Papandreou is in contact with NATO secretary general Lord George
Robertson and with his Swedish counterpart and European Union Council
of Ministers President Anna Lint with the purpose of securing measures
as soon as possible to defuse the crisis.
[04] US in contact with Greece on FYROM situation
WASHINGTON, 06/03/2001 (ANA - T. Ellis)
The US government is in constant contact with the Greek government in
monitoring the tense situation on the Former Yugoslav Republic of
Macedonia's (FYROM) borders with Kosovo and is participating actively
in efforts to handle the crisis, US State Department spokesman Richard
Boucher said on Monday.
Replying to a questioner, Boucher said: "We are discussing constantly
with the Greek government on this situation. When he met his Greek
counterpart Mr. Papandreou a week ago, the secretary (Colin Powell)
also discussed the situation in 'Macedonia.' As you are aware, we also
discussed the issue with other NATO members and have taken certain
decisions. Now, I do not know whether we had further discussions (with
Greece) that is to say if we had communication through our embassy. I
do not think the secretary himself spoke with the Greek foreign
minister. However, I am aware that he spoke with the foreign minister
of 'Macedonia' once or twice in the past week, as well as with the
president of 'Macedonia.' However, I trust that we are in contact with
the Greek government in NATO, just as in Athens."
[05] FM Papandreou arrives for talks in Vienna, cites increasing
polarization in FYROM
VIENNA, 06/03/2001 (ANA - D. Dimitrakoudis)
Trilateral cooperation between Austria, Greece and Italy in the
strife-torn Balkans to facilitate faster reforms and the prospect of EU
inclusion dominated talks here between visiting Greek Foreign Minister
George Papandreou and Austria's leadership.
Papandreou arrived in the Austrian capital for a three-day visit amid
the latest skirmishes between Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia
(FYROM) forces and ethnic Albanian guerillas on the Kosovo-FYROM
frontier and ever-growing concerns about the fragile state of stability
in the southern Balkans.
Among others, the Greek FM reiterated that Balkan leaders as well as
NATO, EU and OECD member-states have categorically warned that they
will not allow a proliferation of violence, whereas any problems should
be resolved through peaceful means.
Papandreou also pointed to what he called the increasing polarization
between the Slavic-speaking and Albanian-speaking residents of FYROM
and southern Serbia, stressing that this type of polarization aims at
destabilizing the entire region.
Besides Kosovo and FYROM, Austrian FM Benita-Maria Ferrero-Waldner
expressed Vienna's desire to host a new round of UN-sponsored proximity
talks between the two communities of Cyprus, while reiterating that
every effort should be made for find a political solution for the
island republic's division prior to its EU accession, "in order for a
united Cyprus to be included (into the Union)."
In terms of Turkey's EU accession prospects, Ferrero-Waldner said a
necessary prerequisite lies in the application of Copenhagen criteria,
especially in the fields of human rights, democratization and the
protection of minorities.
Genc Ymeri
"Aggie-tom" <cyprusandhe...@i.am-SPAM-TRAP> wrote in message
news:9837tf$f18$1...@neptunium.btinternet.com...
REAL
much an important part of Hellenic civilisation and therefore Greece.
Tajik archaeologists excavate road to ancient temple
MOSCOW (AP) -- Archaeologists in the Central Asian nation of Tajikistan have
found a road paved with alabaster that dates from Alexander the Great's
empire in the 4th century B.C.
The road led to a temple that combined Greek culture brought by Alexander
with local traditions, the ITAR-Tass news agency reported Sunday, quoting
Anzhelina Druzhinina, head of the archaeological team.
The site is in strife-torn southern Tajikistan near the Pyandzh River, which
runs between the impoverished former Soviet republic and Afghanistan.
The road was made of alabaster and crushed stone covered with clay putty,
Druzhinina said. The archaeologists have excavated a section of the road and
parts of the temple, but she said they have no money to finish the work.
Alexander, king of Macedon, united Greece under his command and then headed
east in 334 B.C. for the greatest conquest of ancient times. Winning battle
after battle, he reached northeastern India before turning back towards
Egypt, where he died of fever in 323 B.C. at age 33.
Polybios
"In the past you rivaled the Achaians and the kinsmen Macedonians and their
ruler, Philip, about the hegemony and glory, but now that the freedom of the
Hellenes is at stake at a war against an alien people (Romans), ...but now if
you invite them do not you see that you invite them against your ownself and
the whole of Hellas. ...And does it worth to ally with the barbarians against
the Epeirotans, the Achaians, the Akarnanians, the Boiotians, the
Thessalians, almost all the Hellenes with the exception of the Aitolians who
are a wicked nation... So Lakedaimonians it is good to remember your
ancestors, ... be afraid of the Romans... and do ally yourselves with the
Achaians and Macedonians. And if the most influential amongst yourselves
oppose that then stay neutral and do not side with the unjust.
(Polybios 9.37.7-39.7; Speech of Lykiskos, the representative of Akarnania)
"How highly should we honour the Macedonians, who for the greater part of
their lives never cease from fighting with the barbarians for the sake of the
security of Hellas? For who is not aware that Hellas would have constantly
stood in the greater danger, had we not been fenced by the Macedonians and
the honorable ambition of their kings?"
(The Histories of Polybios, IX, 35, 2)
Herodotos
"Now that the men of this family are Hellenes, sprung from Perdiccas, as they
themselves affirm, is a thing which I can declare on my own knowledge, and
which I will hereafter make plainly evident. That they are so has been
already adjudged by those who manage the Pan-Hellenic contest at Olympia"
(Herodotus, The Histories 8.43)
"Tell your king who sent you how his Hellenic viceroy of Macedonia has
received you hospitably... "
(Herodotus V, 20, 4)
"Now that these descendants of Perdiccas are Hellenes, as they themselves
say, I myself chance to know"
(Herodotus V, 22, 1)
Thoukididis
"The country by the sea which is now called Macedonia... Alexander, the
father of Perdiccas, and his forefathers, who were originally Temenidae from
Argos"
(Thucididis 99,3)
"In all there were about three thousand Hellenic heavy infantry, accompanied
by all the Macedonian cavalry with the Chalcidians, near one thousand strong,
besides an immense crowd of barbarians."
(Thukididis 4.124)
Arrian
"He sent to Athens three hundred Persian panoplies to be set up to Athena in
the acropolis; he ordered this inscription to be attached: Alexander son of
Philip and the Hellenes, except the Lacedaemonians, set up these spoils from
the barbarians dwelling in Asia",
(Arrian I, 16, 7)
"Your ancestors invaded Macedonia and the rest of Hellas and did us great
harm, though we had done them no prior injury;... I have been appointed
hegemon of the Greeks... "
(Arrian, Anabasis of Alexander II, 14, 4)
Aeschines
....at the congress of the Lakedaimonian allies and the rest of the Hellenes,
in which Amyntas, the father of Philip, being entitled to a seat, was
represented by a delegate whose vote was absolutely under his control, he
joined the rest of the Hellenes in voting..."
(Aeschines, On the Embassy 32)
Plutarchos
"But he said, `If I were not Alexandros, I should be Diogenes'; that is to
say: `If it were not my purpose to combine barbarian things with things
Hellenic, to traverse and civilize every every continent, to search out the
uttermost parts of land and sea, to push the boiunds of Macedonia to the
farthest Ocean, and to diseminate and shower the blessings of the Hellenic
justice and peace over every nation, I should not be content to sit quietly
in the luxury of idle power, but I should emulate the frugality of Diogenes.
But as things are, forgive me Diogenes, that I imitate Herakles, and emulate
Perseus, and follow in the footsteps of Dionysos, the divine author and
progenitor of my family, and desire that victorius Hellenes should dance
again in India and revive the memory of the Bacchic revels among the savage
mountain tribes beyond the Kaukasos...' "
(Plutarchos, On the Fortune of Alexander, 332 a-b)
"Yet through Alexander, Bactria and the Caucasus learned to revere the gods
of the Hellenes ... Alexander established more than seventy cities among
savage tribes, and sowed all Asia with Hellenic magistracies ... Egypt would
not have its Alexandria, nor Mesopotamia its Seleucia, nor Sogdiana its
Prophthasia, nor India its Bucephalia, nor the Caucasus a Hellenic city, for
by the founding of cities in these places savagery was extinguished and the
worse element, gaining familiarity with the better, changed under its
influence.'
(Plutarchos Moralia. On the Fortune of Alexander, I, 328D, 329A)
"When he (Alexander the Great) arrived at Ilion he sacrificed to Athena and
offered libations to the Heroes."
(Plutarchos, Alexander 15)
Isokratis
"It is your privilege, as one who has been blessed with untrammeled freedom,
to consider all Hellas your fatherland, as did the founder of your race."
(Isokratis, To Philip 127)
Pausanias
"They say that these were the tribes collected by Amphiktyon himself in the
Hellenic Assembly: ... the Macedonians joined and the entire Phocian race ...
In my day there were thirty members: six each from Nikopolis, Macedonia and
Thessaly ... "
(Pausanias Phokis VIII, 2 & 4)
Diodorus of Sicily
"Such was the end of Philip ... He had ruled 24 years. He is known to fame as
one who with but the slenderest resources to support his claim to a throne
won for himself the greatest empire among the Hellenes, while the growth of
his position was not due so much to his prowess in arms as to his adroitness
and cordiality in diplomacy."
(Diodoros of Sicily 16.95.1-2)
"Along with lavish display of every sort, Philip included in the procession
statues of the twelve Gods wrought with great artistry and adorned with a
dazzling show of wealth to strike awe to the beholder, and along with these
was conducted a thirteenth statue, suitable for a god, that of Philip
himself, so that the king exhibited himself enthroned among the twelve Gods.
Every seat in the theater was taken when Philip appeared wearing a white
cloak and by his express orders his bodyguard held away from him and followed
only at a distance, since he wanted to show publicly that he was protected by
the goodwill of all the Hellenes, and had no need of a guard of spearmen."
(Diodoros of Sicily 16.92.5-93.2)
"After this Alexandros left Dareios's mother, his daughters,and his son in
Susa, providing them with persons to teach them the hellenic dialect,..."
(Diodoros of Sicily 17.67.1)
"Alexandros observed that his soldiers were exhausted with their constant
campaigns. ...The hooves of the horses had been worn thin by steady marching.
The arms and armour were wearing out, and the Hellenic clothing was quite
gone. They had to clothe themselves in materials of the barbarians,..."
(Diodoros of Sicily 17.94.1-2)
Titus Livius
"Aetolians, Acarnanians, Macedonians, men of the same language"
(T. Livius XXXI,29, 15)
There is no doupt that ancient Macedonians were Greek. It is thoroughly
proved by historic documents and archaeological discoveries which can be
found in history books and museums in Greece and arround the world. The most
important archeological discovery in Macedonia is the tomb of King Philippos
the II. It was excavated in Vergina, Greece in 1978 and it proves beyond any
doubt the Greekness of ancient Macedonia. All the findings are characteristic
of the Greek culture and all the inscriptions are written using the Greek
language. Among the discoveries of this tomb is the "Vergina sun" the symbol
that FYROM attempted to use on its flag initially.
Some facts which prove that ancient Macedonians where Greek.
Macedonians spoke a dialect of the Greek language
All the monuments and indcriptions found in the Macedonia region are written
in the Greek language.
Macedonians had Greek names
All the ancient Macedonian names mentioned in history or found on tombs are
Greek. All the kings of Ancient Macedonia had Greek names. Nobody discovered
ancient Macedonian names ending to -ov or -ovski or whatever.
Alexander's name is Greek. The word "Alexandros" is produced from the prefix
alex(=protector) and the word andros(=man) meaning "he who protects men". The
prefix "alex" can be found in many Greek words today (alexiptoto=parachute,
alexisfairo=bulletproof - all these words have the meaning of protetion).
Philip's name is also Greek. It is produced from the prefix Philo(=friendly
to something) and the word ippos(=horse) meaning the man who is friendly to
horses. The prefix "philo" and the word "ippos" are also found in many words
of Greek origin today (philosophy,philology, hippodrome,hippocampus).
Some more ancient Macedonian names can be found here
Macedonians fought together with the rest of the Greeks.
Macedonians always fought along with the other Greek city-states against
enemies from Asia.
Macedonians took part in the Olympic games
It is well known then ONLY Greeks were allowed to take part in the ancient
Olympic games. The first Macedonian who took part in the Olympic games was
Alexander I, King of Macedonia between 498-454 bc .
Macedonians celebrated the same festivals as the rest of the Greeks.
Examples of festivals which were celebrated in Macedonia as well as in other
Greek states are the "Hetaireidia", the "Apellaia" and many more.
Macedonians worshiped the same Gods as the rest of the Greeks
Several temples dedicated to the Greek Gods have beem discovered in Macedonia
and especially in Dion the religious center of ancient Macedonians. It is
obvious that the Macedonias worshiped the 12 Olympian Gods as the rest of the
Greeks The Gods were "living" on Mount Olympos which happens to be located in
Macedonia. Would that be possible if there was hostility between Macedonians
and Greeks? This is another proof that Macedonia was considered a part of
Grrece.
The regions of ancient Macedonia had Greek names
The regions which formed ancient Macedonia had Greek names. Most of these
names are used in Greece even today. You can see a list of the regions of
ancient Macedonia here
Macedonian architecture was similar to the Greek architecture
All the buldings found in the Macedonia region have many common
characteristics with the ones found in the rest of Greece. Palaces, temples,
theaters markets are characteristic sampes of ancient Greek architecture.
Some more evidence from history
1. The famous ancient Greek play writer Euripidis wrote and originally
presented most of his plays in Pella, the capital of Macedonia. How was that
possible if the audiance spoke a different language?
2. After the battle of the Grannikos Alexander the Great sent to Athens some
pieces of armor captured from the Persians with the following inscription :
"Alexander, son of Philip and the Hellenes, except the Lakedaimonians, offer
these spoils taken from the barbarians of Asia".
3. Macedonia was a member of the Delphic Amfictiony , an institution which
was open only to Greeks
4. When Alexander arrived in Asia he visited the ancient Greek town of Troy
(Troia), where he sacrifised to the Greek Gods to help him in his quest.
A part from the "Treaty of Alliance" between king Philip V of Macedonia and
Hannibal.
"This is a sworn treaty made between us, Hannibal the general, Mago, Myrkan,
Barmokar and all other Carthaginian senators present with him, and all
Carthaginians serving under him, on the one side, and Xenophanes the
Athenian, son of Kleomachos, the envoy whom King Philip, son of Demetrios,
sent to us on behalf of himself, and the Macedonians and allies, on the other
side. `In the presence of Zeus, Hera and Apollon; in the presence of the
Genius of Carthage; ...and in the presence of all the gods who possess
Carthage; and in the presence of all the Gods who possess Macedonia and the
rest of Hellas; and in the presence of all the gods of the army who preside
over this oath. Thus said Hannibal the general and all the Carthaginian
senators along with him and the Carthaginian soldiers: ...That King Philip
and the Macedonians and the rest of the Hellenes. . .
(Polybios 7.9.1-7)
Alexander's speech to his solders one year before his death
I wish all of you, now that the wars are coming to an end, to live happily in
peace. All mortals from now on shall live like one people, united, and
peacefully working towards a common prosperity. You should regard the whole
world as your country, a country where the best govern, with common laws, and
no racial distinctions. I do not separate people, as many narrow-minded
others do, into Hellenes and barbarians. I am not interested in the origin or
race of citizens, I only distinguish them on the basis of their virtue. For
me, each foreigner is a Hellene, and each bad Hellene is a barbarian. If ever
there appear differences among you, you must not resolve them by taking to
arms; you should resolve them in peace. If need be, I shall act as your
negotiator.
The speech of Alexander I when he was admitted to the Olympic games
"Men of Athens... Had I not greatly at heart the common welfare of Hellas I
should not have come to tell you; but I am myself Hellene by descent, and I
would not willingly see Hellas exchange freedom for slavery.... If you
prosper in this war, forget not to do something for my freedom; consider the
risk I have run, out of zeal for the Hellenic cause, to acquaint you with
what Mardonius intends, and to save you from being surprised by the
barbarians. I am Alexander of Macedon."
(Herodotus, The Histories, 9.45)
What was the origin of ancient Macedonians?
"The name of the ancient Macedonians is derived from Macedon, who was the
grandchild of Deukalion, the father of all Greeks. This we may infer from
Hesiod's genealogy. It may be proven that Macedonians spoke Greek since
Macedon, the ancestor of Macedonians, was a brother of Magnes, the ancestor
of Thessalians, who spoke Greek."
(Nicholas Hammond, 1993)
The Slavic propaganda insists that ancient Macedonians did not have Greek
names or (in some cases) that only the royal family had Greek names.
Here is a list of names of ordinary Macedonian people,mentioned in history,
which proves once again the falsity of the Slavic arguments.
Ifestionas - Alexander's closest friend
Aristotelis - Famous phiosopher, born in Stageira
Hermias - Philosopher
Anaksarxos - Philosopher
Kalisthenis - Philosopher
Marsias - Writer
Zoilos - Writer
Zeuxis - Painter from Heraclea
Leocharis - Sculptor
Lysippos - Sculptor
Deinokratis - He helped Alexander to create Alexandria in Egypt
Antipatros - Historian
Aristokritos - Actor
Thessalos - Actor, friend of Alexander's
Philotas - Another friend of Alexander's
Argeos - Rival of king Philippos
Pausanias - The man who killed king Philippos
Kassandros - Army general, founded the city of Thessaloniki
Ptolemeos - Army general
Antigonos - Army general
Selefkos - Army general
Arrianos - Cavalary commander
Nearchos - Navy commander
Neoptolemos - Arrmy officer
Python - Army officer
Hippostratos - Army officer
Kleitos - Army officer
Permenion - Army officer
Attalos - Army officer
Aristoboulos - Army officer
Kleitarxos - Army officer
Polycratis - Soldier
Bolon - Soldier
Koinos - Soldier
Xenokratis
Deukalos
Arrhideos
Charidimos
Parmenion
Antiochos
Krateros
Kalas
Perseas
Meleagros
Arpalos
Eumenis
Lyssimachos
Leonatos
Assandros
Memmon
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Question 1 :
Are the above names Greek?
Question 2 :
How many "Slav-Macedonians" have today similar names?
Question 3 :
Does anybody know any non-Greek names used by ancient Macedonians?
"We are Slavs who came to this area in the sixth century ... we are not
descendants of the ancient Macedonians."
(from the Foreign Information Service Daily Report, Eastern Europe, February
26, 1992, p. 35. )
"We are Macedonians but we are Slav Macedonians. That's who we are! We have
no connection to Alexander the Greek and his Macedonia. The ancient
Macedonians no longer exist, they had disappeared from history long time ago.
Our ancestors came here in the 5th and 6th century (A.D)."
(from the Toronto Star newspaper, March 15, 1992)
The following questions arise immidiatelly
Why do you call yourselves Macedonians then?
Why do you use ancient Macedonian symbols if they don't belong to you?
The historic truth is that the Slavs descented into the region not before the
6th century long after ancient Macedonia was homogenized with the rest of
Greece. They don't have any historical cultural or linguistic ties with
ancient Macedonia and they would be realy foolish if they officialy claimed
that they did. There is no historic or archaeological evidence connecting
them with ancient Macedonia.
Voyager
Excellent post man. !!!!!!!
Congratulations
REAL wrote
Genc Ymeri
"REAL" <rea...@SPAMTRAPPEDHotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3AB70D8F...@SPAMTRAPPEDHotmail.com...
Voyager
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
So he wasn't according to you Mr Lunatic.
Well go tell as what he was :-)))))))))))))))))
Voyager
Genc Yemeri wrote
Genc Ymeri
greek culture.
PS:
Don't forget that Aleksander the Great was blond with blue eyes, so for
sure like that can't be a greek by blood.
"Voyager" <ji...@dmail.com> wrote in message
news:998rse$nhv$1...@usenet.otenet.gr...
gogu
news:9XSt6.155400$Z8.32...@typhoon.southeast.rr.com...
> He was Macedonian, and Macedonian was a Illyrian tribe witch has adopted
> greek culture.
>
> PS:
> Don't forget that Aleksander the Great was blond with blue eyes, so for
> sure like that can't be a greek by blood.
"Sneak Albo Black Propoganda" !
Hehehe:-)))
kirill
>
> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
>
> So he wasn't according to you Mr Lunatic.
>
> Well go tell as what he was :-)))))))))))))))))
He was an Illyrian and hence Albanian :).
June R Harton
"Genc Ymeri" <GENC-...@mediaone.net> wrote
> He was Macedonian, and Macedonian was a Illyrian tribe
> witch has adopted greek culture.
No, that is incorrect. They may have been good warriors but
they certainly had nothing to do with the Macedonian Greeks:
Arrian
The Campaigns of Alexander.
Alexander talking to the troops before the battle.
Book 2-7
Penguin Classics.
Page 112.
Translation by Aubrey De Seliucourt.
" ...............There are Greek troops, to be sure, in Persian service --
but how different is theirs cause from ours ! They will be fighting for
pay--- and not much of it at that; we on the contrary shall fight for
Greece, and our hearts will be in it.
As for our foreign troops ---Thracians, Paeonians, Illyrians, Agrianes
--- they are the best and stoutest soldiers of Europe, and they will
find as their opponents the slackest and softest of the tribes of Asia."
from: Spirit Of The Real Makedon
(using June's e-mail to communicate to you)!
.......The heart of Macedonia was always Greek
June R Harton
"kirill" <kir...@university.edu> wrote
news:3AB8147C...@university.edu...
> He was an Illyrian and hence Albanian :).
No, anything but Illyrian actually:
From:
http://www.macedonia.com/english/history/review/
For fair use only
HISTORICAL REVIEW
Prehistoric period
Geometric and Archaic periods
Language
Classical period
Hellenistic period
Roman period
Byzantine period
Frankish period
Macedonia under Turkish Rule (the Tourkokratia)
Modern times
Occupying the bigger part of northern Greece, Macedonia first appears on the
historical scene as a geographical-political unit in the 5th century BC,
when it extended from the upper waters of the Haliakmon and Mount Olympus to
the river Strymon. In the following century it reached the banks of the
Nestos. The history of the Macedonians, however, may be said to commence
somewhere around the beginning of the 7th century BC; at this time the Greek
tribe of the Makedones, whose home was in Orestis, began to expand, driving
out the Thracians and contending with the Illyrians, and gradually occupied
Eordaia, Bottiaia, Pieria and Almopia, finally settling in the region called
by Thucydides "Lower Macedonia, or Macedonia by the Sea".
Prehistoric period
This region of high mountains, large rivers, lakes and fertile plains makes
its appearance on the stage of civilization as early as the Early Neolithic
Period (Nea Nikomedeia, region of Yanitsa). The density of the settlements,
however, shows a vertical increase at the end of the 5th millennium BC (Late
Middle Neolithic) and attests, throughout the whole of the region though
especially in central and east Macedonia, to significant mobility on the
part of the population and to its characteristic dynamism. These same
settlements prospered until the Early Bronze Age - that is, until the
beginning of the 3rd millennium BC -most of them organized in the plains,
with houses either square or rectangular in plan, sometimes with wooden
posts and sometimes with stone foundations for the walls.
Stock-breeding, based on the raising of goats and sheep, was one of the
prime factors in Macedonia's development, in combination, of course, with
other intra-community activities and occupations, such as hunting and
fishing. An improvement in the quality of diet is indicated by the diversity
of crops cultivated: grain, vines and olives. Exchanges of cultural goods
(jewelry, quality pottery) now multiplied, clearly an example of prestige
gifts rather than evidence of commercial contacts.
The Bronze Age finds Macedonia with fewer settlements, a circumstance that
may be interpreted either as the result of the contraction of the population
or as the result of the development of central cores at the expense of
small-scale satellite settlements. The houses are now quite frequently
two-roomed, with the areas relating to the preparation of food kept
separate; they are constructed with wooden posts, and have one of the ends
apsidal in form. A still primitive system of planned streets can be detected
in some of the settlements. Both bovines and sheep and goats, along with
pulses and cereals (wheat and barley) formed part of the daily diet of the
inhabitants of Macedonia, who at this period were serving their
apprenticeship in the production of bronze tools, used alongside stone
implements. The pottery, and especially the quality pottery, usually
monochrome, reveals relations with the Bronze Age pottery of central Europe,
neighboring Epirus and Thessaly, and also with that of the north-east
Aegean. In time, it also acquired a certain independence, despite the fact
that in the later centuries of this same period (Bronze Age), it was to be
influenced by the outstanding achievements of the Mycenaean wheel.
Overworking of the land and the steady increase in the density of the
settlements, which now show a preference for semi-mountainous sites, suggest
the evolution, with the passage of time, of a certain hierarchy and a
central authority. The articulation of society is indicated in a general way
by the differentiation in burial customs.
The transition to the following period, the Early lron Age, though not yet
clearly demarcated, is distinguished by clear destruction levels or levels
indicating the abandonment of settlements. The houses, with stone-built
bases, now frequently have wattle-and-daub walls. The dead were generally
buried in organized cemeteries with earth tumuli covering groups of cist
graves, simple burials directly in the earth or in jars; this is one of the
hallmarks of the period, which is defined by the appearance of
protogeometric decorative elements on the local pottery (Vergina, West
Macedonia), the lavish use of bronze objects, mainly jewelry, the founding
of settlements on spacious sites, and the exploitation of iron deposits for
the construction of weapons.
Geometric and Archaic periods
The relative isolation of the Macedonian region in the period from the 10th
to the 8th centuries BC - an isolation due to the temporary unavailability
of the commercial routes from south to north - was soon overcome, and
Macedonia entered upon the Archaic period as the promised land for the
hundreds of colonists who came to the coasts of the Aegean from many cities
in southern Greece. It was during this period that colonists from southern
Greece founded Methone, Sane, Skione, Potidaia, Akanthos and many other
cities-ports on the coasts of Pieria and Chalkidike.
Bounded to the south by a long chain of mountain ranges -Ossa, Olympus and
the Kambounian Mountains, to the west by the Pindos range, to the east by
the river Strymon and then the Nestos, and to the north by Orbelos,
Menoikion, Kerkine, Boras and Barnous, Macedonia was cut off from the main
body of Greece, on the ramparts of Hellenism, and lived until the 6th
century by the teachings of the Homeric epic.
The state-form was unusual: in one sense a federal state composed of
autonomous Macedonian tribes subject to the central authority (Orestai,
Elimeiotai, Lynkestai), yet also an ethnos with a strong, though democratic
monarchy, and a society of farmers and stock-breeders capable of defending
their land against all foreign designs, Macedonia evolved with the passage
of the centuries into a power of world-wide (for the period) influence and
prestige.
The country was self-sufficient in products to meet basic needs (timber,
cereals, game, fish, livestock, minerals) and soon became the exclusive
supplier of other Greek states less blessed by nature, though at the same
time it came to be the target of expansionist schemes dictated largely by
economic interests. A particularly "introspective" land, with conservative
customs and way of life and a social structure and political organization of
a markedly archaic character, speaking a distinctive form of the Doric
dialect, Macedonia took over the reigns of the Greek spirit in the 4th
century BC, when the city-state was entering on its decline; revealing
admirable adaptability in the face of the demands of the present and the
achievements of the past, and ingenuity and boldness when confronted with
the problems of the future, the country was quickly transformed into a
performer of new roles, open ing up new roads towards the epoch of the
Hellenism of three continents.
Language
The Macedonians were a Dorian tribe, according to the testimony of Herodotus
(1, 56): "(The Dorian ethnos) ... dwelt in Pindos, where it was called
Makednon; from there ... it came to the Peloponnesos, where it took the name
of Dorian". And elsewhere (VIII, 43): "these (that is, the Lacedaimonians,
Corinthians, Sikyonians etc.), except the people of Hermione, were of the
Dorian and Makednon ethnos, and had most recently come from Erineos and
Pindos and Dryopis". A Dorian tribe, then, that expanded steadily to the
east of Pindos and far beyond, conquering areas in which dwelt other tribes,
both Greek and non-Greek.
For many centuries, Macedonia remained on the fringe of the Greek world. In
the mountainous regions of Macedonia, at least, the way of life will have
consisted predominantly of transhumant pasturage. Education will, at best,
have been confined to aristocratic circles and those connected with them. We
do not, therefore, expect to find any written texts of a private nature from
the Archaic period. In the rest of the Greek world, writing is related to
the structure and mechanisms of the city-state, and is used mainly for the
recording of justice in the broadest sense of the word. Under a monarchical
regime like that of Macedonia, however, and in a world of nomads, we would
hardly expect to find public documents.
At about the end of the 6th century BC, the changed socio-economic
circumstances deriving from permanent settlement and the intensification of
economic and cultural relations with the rest of the Greek world led to the
creation of the preconditions for the use of writing, mainly for the
purposes of diplomatic relations. The local dialect a member, as far as we
can judge, of the group known as the north-west Greek dialects, which
included Phokian, the Lokrian dialects, etc., had no written tradition,
whether literary or other. Consequently, the rise of education and culture
was to the detriment of the Macedonian speech. Attic was selected as the
language of education, and the local dialect was "smothered" by the written
language, the koine, and was never, or hardly ever, written down, being
restricted to oral communication between Macedonians. From as early as the
time of Alexander the Great, moreover, Macedonian lost ground to the koine
in this sphere too, if we are to believe the historical sources, and there
is certainly no evidence that it was spoken in the centuries after Christ.
Only its memory was perpetuated through the use of personal names until the
4th century AD
Although very little of the Macedonian tongue has survived, there is no
doubt that it was a Greek dialect. This is clear from a whole series of
indications and linguistic phenomena by which the koine of the region is
"colored" which are not Attic but which can only have derived from a Greek
dialect. For example: The vast majority of even the earliest names, whether
dynastic names or not, are Greek, formed from Greek roots and according to
Greek models: Hadista, Philista, Sostrata, Philotas, Perdikkas, Machatas and
hundreds of others. In general, the remnants of the Macedonian dialect that
have come down to us have a completely different character from Ionic. This
circumstance is patent proof that there can be no question of the ancient
Macedonians having been Hellenised, as has been asserted (Karst), for such
Hellenisation could have been only by the Greek colonies on the Macedonian
coast, in which the Ionian element was predominant (Beloch).
The fact that Roman and Byzantine lexicographers and grammarians cited
examples from Macedonian in order to interpret particular features of the
Homeric epics must mean that Macedonian - or rather, what survived of
Macedonian at the period in question - was a very archaic dialect, and
preserved features that had disappeared from the other Greek dialects; it
would be absurd to suggest that these scholars, in their commentaries on the
Homeric poems, might have compared them with a non-Greek language. The name
given to the Macedonian cavalry - hetairoi tou basileos - "the King's
Companions" - is also indicative: this occurs only in Homer, and was
preserved in the historical period only amongst the Macedonians.
The anonymous compiler of the Etymologicum Magnum notes in the entry on
Aphrodite, probably adopting a comment by the earlier grammarian Didymos: "V
is akin to F. This is clear from the fact that the Macedonians call Philip
"Vilip" and pronounce falakros [bald] "valakros" the Phrygians "Vrygians"
and the winds (fysitas) "vyktas". Homer refers to "vyktas anemous" (blowing
winds). Observations of this type abound. Male and female names occur in
Macedonian ending in -as and -a, where in Attic we have -es and -e: Alketas,
Amyntas, Hippotas, Glauka, Eurydika, Andromacha, and dozens more. A feature
bequeathed by Macedonian to the koine and also to Modern Greek is the
genitive of so-called first declension masculine nouns in -a: Kallia,
Teleutia, Pausanea (the Attic ending was -ou). The long alpha is retained in
the middle of words (as in all dialects other than Ionic-Attic dialects):
Damostratos, Damon etc. and Iaos" rather than the "Ieos" of Ionic Attic, is
used to form compounds, occurring as both the first and the second element.
The koine of Macedonia, for all its conservatism and dialect coloring,
follows a parallel path to the koine of other regions, though not always at
the same moment in time. Whatever the case, all the changes that marked the
Greek language in general and the north Greek dialects in particular, can be
followed in the inscriptions of Macedonia.
Classical period
Although Herodotus and Thucydides, both of whom were aware of the genealogy
of the Macedonian Argead or Temenids dynasty, made Perdikkas I the head of
the family, and moreover at tributed to him the foundation of the state
(first half of the 7th century BC), tradition records the names of kings
earlier than Perdikkas (Karanos, Koinos, Tyrimmas). It was, however, only
after protracted clashes with the Illyrians and the Thracians, and temporary
subjection to Persian suzerainty (510-479 BC)- a period during which the
Macedonians established themselves in "Lower Macedonia" - that the country
acquired its definitive form and character. Through the organizational and
administrative abilities of its first great leader, Alexander I, called the
Philhellene, whose timely information to the southern Greeks contributed to
the defeat of the Persian forces of Xerxes and Mardonios, the suzerainty of
the Macedonian kingdom was extended both to the west of the lower Strymon
valley and to the region of Anthemous. This brought economic benefits,
including the exploitation of a number of silver mines in the area of lake
Prasias (the first Macedonian coins were struck at this time), and the
independent Macedonian principalities of west and north Macedonia were
united around the central authority, recognizing the primacy of the Temenids
king. The entry of the state into the history of southern Greece was sealed
by the acceptance of Alexander I by the hellanodikai as a competitor in the
Olympic games (probably those of 496 BC), in which, as we know, only Greeks
were allowed to participate.
Perdikkas II, the first-born son of Alexander I, who ruled for forty years
(454-412/13 BC), not only had to face dynastic strife, but also had to be
continuously on the alert to deal with the problems created for him by the
Thracian tribes and the Lynkestai and Elimeiotai on one hand, and on the
other by the doubtful outcome of the Peloponnesian War, which threw the
Greek world into turmoil in the 5th century BC, bringing Athenian and
Spartan armies, at various times, into the heart of Macedonia. Acting always
according to the dictates of political advantage, Perdikkas II proved
himself a skillful diplomat and a wily leader, astute in his decisions and
flexible in his alliances, and set as the aim of his diplomacy the
preservation of the territorial integrity of his kingdom. The completion of
the internal tasks that Perdikkas II was prevented from accomplishing by the
external situation fell to his successor, Archelaos I; he is credited by the
ancient sources and modern scholarship alike with great sagacity and with
sweeping changes in state administration, the army and commerce. During his
reign, the defense of the country was organized, cultural and artistic
contacts with southern Greece were extended, and the foundations were laid
of a road network. A man of culture himself, the king entertained in his new
palace at Pella, to where he had transferred the capital from Aigai, poets
and tragedians, and even the great Euripides, who wrote his tragedies
Archelaos and The Bacchae there; he invited brilliant painters - the name of
Zeuxis is mentioned - and at Dion in Pieria, the Olympia of Macedonia, he
founded the "Olympia", a religious festival with musical and athletic
competitions in honor of Olympian Zeus and the Muses. By 399 BC, the year in
which he was murdered, Archelaos I had succeeded in converting Macedonia
into one of the strongest Greek powers of his period. In the forty years
following the death of Archelaos I , Macedonia formed a field for all kinds
of conflict and realignments, and was the object of competition between
kings who reigned for very brief periods; the country was ravaged by the
savage incursions of the Illyrians, captured by the Chalkidians, and obliged
to yield to the demands of the Athenians; despite all this, however, it
recovered to some degree with Amyntas III on the throne and, with the
accession of Philip II (359 BC), succeeded in regaining its self-belief and
recovering its former strength. This charismatic ruler, whose strategic
genius and diplomatic ability transformed Macedonia from an insignificant
and marginal country into the most important power in the Aegean and paved
the way for the pan-Hellenic expedition of his son to the Orient, was an
expansive leader who had the breadth of vision to usher the ancient world
into the epoch of the Hellenism of three continents. During the course of
his tempestuous life, he firmly established the power of the central
authority in the kingdom, reorganized the army into a flexible and amazingly
efficient unit, strengthened the weaker regions of his realm through
movements of population, and, abroad, made Macedonia incontestably superior
to the institution of the city-state which, at this precise period, was
facing decline. His unexpected death at the hands of an assassin in 336 BC,
in the theater at Aigai on the very day of the marriage of his daughter
Cleopatra to Alexander, the young king of the Molos sians, brought to an end
a brilliant career, the final aim of which was to unify the Greeks in order
to exact vengeance on Persia for the invasion of 481-480 BC; Macedonia, in
complete control of affairs in the Balkan peninsula, was ready to assume its
new role. A fascinating sequence of political events with a highly favorable
outcome and military victories with world-wide repercussions, the resolution
of a number of intractable problems of an inter-state nature, and a series
of inspired programs and visions implemented with great success in a short
space of time - these are the component elements in the panorama of the life
of the great general and civilizer Alexander III, who was justly called the
Great and who has passed into the pantheon of legend. And if his victories
at Granikos (334 BC), Issos (333 BC), Gaugamela (331 BC) and Alexandria
Nikaia (326 BC) may be thought of as sons worthy of their father, bringing
about the overthrow of the mighty Persian empire and distant India, the
prosperous cities founded in his name as far as the ends of the known world
were his daughters - centers of the preservation and dissemination of Greek
spirit and culture. From this world of dar ing and passion, of questing and
contradiction the robust Hellenism of Macedonia carried the art of man to
the ends of the inhabited world, bestowing poetry upon the mute and, in the
infancy of mankind, instilling philosophical thought. In the libraries that
were now founded from the Nile to the Indus, in the theaters that spread
their wings under the skies of Baktria and Sogdiana, in the Gymnasia and the
Agoras Homer suckled as yet unborn civilizations, Thucydides taught the
rules of the science of history, and the great tragedians and Plato
transmitted the principle of restraint and morality to absolutist regimes.
Alexander's contribution to the history of the world is without doubt of the
greatest importance: his period, severing the "Gordian Knot" with the Greek
past, opened new horizons whose example would inspire, throughout the
centuries that followed, all those leaders down to Napoleon himself who left
their own mark on the course of mankind in both the East and the West.
Despite the unfavorable outcome of affairs on the external front, however,
and despite the restraining intervention of the Romans at the ex pense of
the territorial integrity of the country, which was deprived of its
possessions in south ern Greece and Asia Minor (197 BC), Philip's V prestige
and influence was revealed long ago by dedications at the most famous Greek
sanctuar ies (Delos, Rhodes, Karia). His dynamism with re gard to the vision
of a great and powerful Mace donia is attested by his internal policy during
the final decade of his rule (188-179 BC): during these years, the planned
exploitation of the mines, the granting to the cities in the kingdom of the
right to mint coins, the imposition of harbor dues, the increasing of
taxation and the provision of grants to encourage child-bearing, all led not
only to recovery but also to the accumulation of wealth.
This prosperity and a sound incomes policy, together with the rise of trade
and the liberalization of local institutions in the major urban centers,
filled the royal treasury with liquid funds and the granaries with stores of
grain, and armed 18,000 mercenaries under the rule of his successor,
Perseus, the last king of Macedonia. The 6,000 talents and the vast
quantities of precious vessels that came into the hands of Aemilius Paulus
on the morrow of the decisive battle of Pydna (168 BC) attest to the
economic vigour of the state up to the very eve of its collapse.
Roman period
This, then, was the end of the kingdom be neath Mount Olympus, which had
been the com mon point of reference for all the Hellenistic king doms of the
East and had supplied succeeding generations with Greek ideals. It was
essentially a nation state, in contrast with the "spear-won" kingdoms of the
epigoni (Successors) in which the Macedonians were always a minority of for
eign conquerors, a conservative country, cer tainly, devoted to its
traditional institutions, so dif ferent from the immense new empires of the
Se leucids and the Ptolemies, with their heterogene ous populations. Far
removed from the deifica tion of leaders, from vainglorious titles, from the
appellations and dooms of excess, Macedonia confronted its destiny as once
its Stoic king Anti gonos II Gonatas had confronted the highest of fice,
which had been bestowed upon him: as glo rious slavery!
A menace to the Roman Senate, the land of Alexander was divided into four
merides (por tions), or economic and administrative districts, and the
possession or sale of landed property between them was forbidden, as was
intermar riage. The Macedonians were described as "free" (in reality, under
the tutelage of the Romans), paid a tax and were obliged to maintain an army
only large enough to protect their own borders against the barbarian tribes
of the north. This re gime, however, lasted no more than twenty years:
anti-Roman sentiments on the one hand, and social friction between the
privileged classes and the masses on the other, and above all the
deterioration of the internal situation led to the re volt of Andriskos, an
adventurer who claimed to be the son of Perseus. With the crushing of his
rebellion by the Roman legions (148 BC) Mace donia now belonged to the past,
even as a pro tectorate: the senate decided to turn it into a province
(provincia Macedonia)- the first Roman province in the East - and
incorporate it into the Roman empire, installing a governor with his
headquarters at Thessaloniki and an army. The period from 148 BC to the
advent of Augustus (27 BC) was undoubtedly one of the most bur densome for
the country which, administratively, now stretched from the Ionian sea to
the Nestos river, and from mount Olympus to the source of the Axios river:
the continuous incursions of bar barian tribes (Skordiskoi, Bessoi,
Thracians) throughout the second century BC, the invasion by the armies of
Mithridates VI, supported by the Maidoi, the Dardanians and the Sintoi, at
the be ginning of the first, and the upheaval, decimation and ravaging
inflicted on it during both the first Civil War (Pompey-Caesar, 49-48 BC)
and the second (Brutus/Antony-Octavian, 42 BC), turned the province into a
huge battlefield, with severely adverse consequences for the land and its
inhabitants.
The construction of the Via Egnatia from Dyr rachion to Byzantion (in a
second stage) as a continuation of the Via Appia on the Italian main land,
and the settling of colonists (Dion, Cassan dreia, Pella, Philippoi) and
Italian merchants may have transformed the economic and demograph ic face of
the country, but it did not bring about the latinization of the inhabitants,
who retained their Greek personality and speech to the end.
In a pacified empire, living under the protec tion of the Pax Romana in the
rearguard of mili tary enterprises, and a senatorial province from 27 BC to
AD 15 and from AD 44 onwards, Macedonia moved onto a different plane. In the
"free" cities of Thessaloniki, Amphipolis and Sko toussa, as in the tribute
paying (tributariae) cities, the communities in time adjusted to the new
state of affairs ordained by Augustus, while preserving their ancient
institutions of government (assem bly, council and magistrates); new
town-plans were laid out, grand building complexes (agoras, temples) now
proclaimed the glory of new gods and earthly lords, honorific altars were
erected for select members and officials in a display of gratitude, and fine
marble funerary buildings were designed to perpetuate the memory of sim ple
mortals and distinguished citizens after their death. And it is the
countless inscriptions - often verbose in their attempt to flatter - that
preserve names, professions, lists of ephebes, artists' guilds, dedicators,
religious associations, immor talizing the passing moment and completing the
mosaic of our knowledge of a region of the Ro man world that appears to
follow the fortune of a disarmed province. It is the inscriptions that in
form us about the existence of koina - those organizations that stood
between the Roman ad ministration and the local authorities; about the
holding of games called Pythia, Actia, Alexan dreia Olympia; about the
occasional transit of emperors and their armies, and the anchoring of
fleets. And of course, about the preservation in the memory of the
Macedonians of the man who glorified their name to the ends of the inhabited
world.
Forgotten in its wilderness, the province of Macedonia strengthened the
fortifications of its cities - often, indeed, demolishing the adjacent
buildings - when, in the middle of the 3rd century, the Carpi, the Goths and
the Heruls reached the Aegean, laying everything waste.
In the twilight of the Roman gods, and of all the other deities of oriental
or Egyptian origins for whom the country had provided fertile ground on
which to establish and disseminate themselves, Christianity offered to
Thessaloniki, Philippoi, and Beroia, resignation, redemption and life beyond
death, from as early as 50 BC, when saint Paul the Apostle of the Nations
preached the new religion. It prepared the ground for the resurrection of
the dead and also for the regeneration of the empire. An empire tossing and
turning amidst the instability of opportunistic government by a host of
ambitious contenders for power, an empire in the chaos of economic decline,
threatened with the breaching of the integrity of its borders by the
repeated incursions of barbarian tribes, and humbled by heavy defeats on the
field of battle.
The assumption of power by Diocletian in AD 280 - an event that formed a
landmark in the his tory of the Roman empire and laid the founda tions for a
new era - was of the greatest impor tance for Macedonia, as for the rest of
the em pire, leading as it did to a way out of the crisis.
Diocletian's administrative changes returned Macedonia to her natural
boundaries. Part of the diocese of the Moesia was assigned to the praes es
(ruler), who was responsible to the vicarius (vicar), the supreme governor.
The situation was standardized first as a result of the changes made by
Constantine the Great, according to which Macedonia, along with Thessaly,
Epirus Vetus and Epirus Nova, Achaia and Crete formed the diocese of
Macedonia, and then in the second half of the 4th century AD when the dio
cese of Macedonia, Dacia and Pannonia com bined to form the praefecture of
Illyricum, with its capital at Thessaloniki; there were further changes,
however, at the beginning of the 5th century, with Macedonia divided into
"Macedonia Prima" and "Macedonia Salutaris".
Byzantine period
Macedonia's strategic importance at the crossroads of the major arterial
roads in the Bal kan peninsula meant that during the critical peri od
marking the transition from the late Roman to the Byzantine period it was
the object of bene factions from the royal house, despite the gener al
upheavals of the times. Manifestations of this interest included the
transfer of the capital to Thessaloniki by Galerius Maximian, and the
erection there of an imposing palace; the con struction in the same city of
a capacious dock yard by Constantine the Great (AD 322/323), and the choice
of the capital of Macedonia as the headquarters of Theodosius the Great (AD
379/380) for his campaigns against the Visigoths and Ostrogoths. The
economic prosperity of Macedonia in the 4th and 5th centuries AD is at
tested by the large numbers of quarries (Thasos, Prilep), furnaces for the
smelting of metals, work shops for the construction of weapons and metal
objects, pottery workshops and centers product ing beads of glass-paste;
there is also evidence for the existence of extensive farms, salt-flats,
yarn dyers (Stoboi), the organizing of trade fairs ("Demetria") and the
carrying on of a trade in leather. This prosperity was undoubtedly respon
sible for the imposing buildings (whether of a re ligious or secular
character) brought to light in many places by the archaeologist's spade:
basili cas, villas and fortifications.
It was upon this world, a world deeply influ enced by Christianity, a world
that slowly and surely cast off its Roman toga to don the Byzan tine purple,
a world sorely tried by the incursions of the Goths, the Avars, and all the
others who had designs on its wealth and power, that faith in mission of the
"God of mercy" erected the thousand-year empire of the East, to guide and
enlighten the West. It raised the cross of the Res urrection as far afield
as the banks of the Da nube, in castles, in churches adorned with mosaics,
and in bath-houses. Proclaiming the glory of men like Justinian I, the
courage of a Heraklios, the majesty of Constantine VII Porphyrogennitus. In
the face of the Avars and the Slavs, the Bul gars and the Arabs.
As the countryside was depopulated by the repeated barbarian incursions and
the majority of the inhabitants sought refuge and protection in the urban
centers, the cities were transformed into centers of intense commercial and
cultural activity. Ports like those of Thessaloniki and Christoupolis
(Kavala), with their granaries and heavy traffic in sea-faring ships, and
also pros perous cities in the hinterland, such as Herakleia Lynkestis,
Bargala, Serrhai and Philippoi, were adorned with brilliant buildings; their
fortifications were strengthened, and their old urban tissue was abandoned
as new programs of urban development were implemented (to which the
destructive earthquakes of the 7th century made their contribution).
It was at this period, moreover, that the ad ministrative system of
"themes"(districts), al ready tested in areas of Asia Minor exposed to great
danger, was introduced to the European regions of the empire. The
characteristic features of this system were the concentrating in one and the
same person of military and political au thority, and a change in the
composition of the ar my. Macedonia was divided between two "themes" - the
"theme of Thessaloniki" (from the Pindos range to the Strymon river) and the
"theme of Strymon" (the modern counties of Ser rhai, Xanthe and Rhodope),
the latter with its capital at Serrhai.
The integration of the Slavs into Byzantine so ciety (9th century AD), the
result partly of their conversion to Christianity by Cyril and Methodios and
partly of the extension of Byzantine influence to the interior of the
Balkans, had direct conse quences for Macedonia, whose cities benefited from
the peace that now prevailed. Thessaloniki evolved into an important
cosmopolitan center to which flowed merchandise from East and West. Churches
were erected at Kastoria and Beroia and adorned with wall-paintings in which
were crystallized the basic elements of large-scale art after the triumph of
Orthodoxy and the triumph of the icons.
Before 1204, the year in which Constantino ple was captured by the crusaders
of the Fourth Crusade, Macedonia was shaken by the uphea vals and the
ravaging and taking of prisoners at tending successive invasions by the
Bulgarians, first under Symeon (AD 894-927) and then under Samuel (AD
989-1018), and suffered the humiliation of seeing its capital fall into the
hands of Arab pirates (AD 904); almost three hundred years later, the same
city, along with others (Kastoria and Serrhai) was captured after a siege by
the Normans of Sicily (AD 1185). This is the reason that the 9th and 10th
centuries in Macedonia have no great achievements to show in the sphere of
cultural activity. A contributing factor in this was, of course, the strict
centraliza tion that informed the policy of the Macedonian dynasty. By
contrast, the 1 1th and 12th centuries bestowed upon the north Greek
administrative division men of the church and of letters, of the stature of
Theophylact Hephaistos (the famous archbishop of Bulgaria, with his see at
Ochrid), Michael Choumnos (metropolitan of Thessaloniki), and Eustathios
Kataphloros (Metropolitan of Thessaloniki and a famous scholiast on
classical texts). They contributed to a flowering of ecclesiastical
architecture and church painting (Beroia, Edessa, Melenikon, Serrhai, Ayios
Achillios, Thessaloniki, Mount Athos, Nerezi, Kastoria and Ochrid) of such
intensity that these churches formed models for creations in other Balkan
lands and as far afield as Russia and Georgia in the East and Sicily and
north ern Italy in the West. Wall-paintings of the quality of Saint
Panteleimon at Nerezi (1162) - a typical example of Komne nan painting, with
its pronounced depiction of passion and its soft lines in the rendering of
bod ies, tall and elegant in their other-worldly Man nerism - or of the
Latomos monastery in Thessa loniki (2nd half of the 12th century), and of
the Anargyroi at Kastoria and Saint Nikolaos Kasnit zes in the same city
(12th century), with their re fined academic style; these are all
undoubtedly points of reference for the artistic production and achievement
of this age, before the empire was dismembered by the Latins and divided
into king doms, baronies, and counties. And, of course, we should not forget
the superb compositions of the portable icons and mural mosaics.
Frankish period
With the collapse of the Byzantine Empire and its dismemberment by the
western crusad ers (Partitio Romaniae), the whole of Macedonia became
subject to the Frankish kingdom of Thes saloniki, of which Boniface, marquis
of Montfer rat was appointed ruler. Despite the fact that they had
prevailed, however, the new lords had to cope both with rivalries amongst
themselves, and with the expansionist visions of Kalojan, the Bulgarian tzar
Ioannitzes, who in 1207, the year of his death, arrived with his armies
before the walls of Thessaloniki, having first captured Ser rhai and taken
prisoner Baldwin, emperor of Con stantinople.
The situation became increasingly confused as time went on: the Bulgarian
state was con sumed by inter-dynastic quarrels and after the death of
Boniface, the Frankish kingdom of Thes saloniki fell into the hands of
guardians of mi nors: the new despot of the so-called "Despotate" of Epirus,
the ambitious Theodore Komnenos Doukas An gelos (121 5-1230), brother of the
founder of the state, Michael II Komnenos Dou kas Angelos, systematically
extended his pos sessions from Skodra in Illyria to Naupaktos (Le panto)
and, by steadily advancing his armies, succeeded in capturing the bride of
the Therma ic gulf and dissolving the second largest Latin bastion in the
Balkans (1224). He was defeated, however, by the Bulgarian tzar lvan Asen II
in 1230, at the battle of Klokotnitsa, as a result of which his kingdom
contracted to the area around Thessaloniki and shortly afterwards became
subject to the rising power of the period, the em pire of Nicaea. In
December 1246, loannis III Va tatzes, after a victorious advance, during
which he captured Serrhai, Melenikon, Skopje, Velessa and Prilep, entered
the city of saint Demetrios in triumph, and installed as its governor the
Great Domestic Andronikos Palaiologos.
Caught at the center of expansionist designs, struggles for survival and
domination and at tempts to recover lost prestige, Macedonia re pulsed the
attacks of the "Despotate" of Epirus, warded off the united armies of king
Manfred of Sicily and Villehardouin, ruler of Achaia, and re captured
Kastoria, Edessa, Ochrid, Skopje and Prilep, before eventually being
incorporated into the Byzantine Empire, which was reconstituted on the
morrow of 1261 with the capture of the Queen of Cities by Michael VIII
Palaiologos.
These were ephemeral, "Pyrrhic victories", for the final page of the
Byzantine epic augured the demise of a legend that had been kept alive for
over a thousand years. The wretched condi tion of the empire in every sphere
enabled the Serbs of Stephen Dusan to make deep advances to the south
(1282ff.), and the mercenaries of the Catalan Company to devastate the
Chalkidi ke and Mount Athos (1308ff.), fuelled fratricidal dynastic strife
between the Palaiologoi and the Kantakouzenoi, and gave rise to social turbu
lence such as that provoked by the Zealots in Thessaloniki.
And as the fortresses of moral and material resistance, buffeted by the
maelstrom of the times, fell one after the other on the altar of short- term
political planning and superstitious delusion, the myopic response to the
reality of the situation brought the pagan hordes to European soil and
shackled the right hand of Western civilization and Christianity. The last
defenders of cities and ideals - an outstanding example of whom was the
restless Manuel, governor of Thessaloniki from 1369 and subsequently emperor
in Constantino ple as Manuel II - felt the death rattle of Serrhai (1383) as
the 14th century expired, and heard the protracted screams of Drama, Zichna,
Be roia, Servia and Thessaloniki itself - once in 1395 and once, for the
last time, in 1430 - with the crescent moon flying on its battlements.
Amidst the ruins of the nation, the only bea cons of endurance for the
enslaved population, the only points of reference to the glorious past for
those who abandoned the sinking ship in good time, making their way to the
West, were the books in which they took refuge in the harsh cen turies that
followed - the deeply philosophical treatises, the pained verses, the
inspired compo sitions of men like Thomas Magistros, Demetrios Triklinios,
Theodore Kabasilas, Gregorios Pala mas, Demetrios Kydones, and the wise
jurist Constantine Armenopoulos. The strikingly warm monuments of the
Christian faith, created by named and anonymous mosaicists, painters of
cosmic universe, architects of the undomed di vine: in the Peribleptos at
Ochrid (1295), in Saint Nikolaos Orphanos, in the Holy Apostles (1312-
1315), in Saint Elias (at Thessaloniki), in Saint Nikolaos Kyritzes (at
Kastoria), in the Church of Christ at Beroia (1315), in the Basilica of the
Pro taton at Karyes on Mount Athos (end of the 13th century). In the field
of myth, masters of the pal ette such as the painter Manuel Panselinos and
his fellow artists Eutychios and Michael Astrapas and Georgios Kalliergis.
And it was precisely at this period, when the rumored impending judgment of
the souls in heaven was menacing terrified mortals on earth with its sword,
that there occurred a change in the consciousness of the Byzantine world
which led oppressed Hellenism to an unprecedented self awareness, taking it
back to the roots of its origins.
Faced with Ottoman predomination, the impo sition of the Muslim religion by
forced conver sions to Islam where necessary, the arrival in Macedonia a few
years after the fall of Constan tinople of thousands of Jewish refugees from
Spain, and the migrations of Vlach- and Slav- speaking groups, the Greek
element in the Em pire - the "Romaioi"(Romans) as they were called by the
Turks - acquired an inner strength and ral lied round the Great Idea of
casting off the for eign yoke and its alien language and religion. Through
the encouragement of the crusading Or thodox Church, the preservation of
Greek- speaking schools, and revolutionary remittances from the Greeks of
the diaspora, especially those in Italy, it kept alive its knowledge, its
language and its dreams. And as time went on and the deep wounds of the
first decades of slavery were forgotten, it achieved great things in
commerce and trade, on the diplomatic front, in administra tion, and in
public relations.
Macedonia under Turkish Rule (the Tourkokratia)
While ruined cities like Thessaloniki, victims of the conquest, were
repopulated with peoples from every region of the Ottoman Empire, others,
such as Yanitsa (Yenice), were new creations with a purely Turkish
population. About the mid dle of the 15th century, Monastir had 185 Chris-
tian families, Velessa 222 and Kastoria 938. Thessaloniki, a century later,
counted 1087 fam ilies and Serrhai 357. In Drama, Naousa and Ka vala, the
main language spoken was Greek. The same was true of Servia, Kastoria,
Naousa and Galatista. Stromnitsa, like Yanitsa, was a Turkish city. Jewish
communities of some importance were to be found in Beroia, where there were
equal numbers of Moslems and Christians, and in Serrhai, Monastir, Kavala
and Drama. Few Slav speakers remained in the countryside of Eastern
Macedonia - the remnants of Stephen Dusan's empire - though there were more
in Western and the north of Central Macedonia.
The inhabitants, new and old, lived in separ ate communities, and were
jointly responsible for the implementation of orders from the central au
thority, for the preservation of order and, most importantly of all, for the
payment of taxes. The administration of the community was in the hands of
the local aristocracy, which was permitted cer tain initiatives of a
philanthropic or cultural na ture. This local autonomy in matters of adminis
tration also extended to the hearing by archbish ops of cases involving
family and inheritance law, in accordance with Byzantine custom-law.
The administrative system of the Ottoman Empire was based on its military
organization and, at the beginning of the period, the European conquests
formed a single military and political district (the Eyalet of Roumelia),
governed by the beyrlebey, a high-ranking official. In time, this broad unit
was divided and Macedonia was brok en up into smaller sections, of which
Western Macedonia was assigned initially to the sanjak of Skopje and later
to those of Ochrid and Monastir. By contrast, both Central and Eastern
Macedo nia formed separate sanjaks, with their capitals at Thessaloniki and
Kavala respectively. The northern areas were assigned to the sanjak of
Kyustendil.
As during the Byzantine period, cereals, ap ples, olives, flax and
vegetables were cultivated on the fertile plains of Macedonia. As the centu
ries passed, tobacco, cotton and rice were ad ded to them. The creation of
settlements in the mountainous areas and the intensification of
stock-raising led to a reduction in the forested ar ea. Trout from the
rivers and lakes supplied the markets of Constantinople. From the numerous
metal, silk and textile workshops - which owed much to the skills of the
Jewish element - the em pire ordered objects for daily use and also luxury
goods. Goldsmiths, builders, chandlers, furriers, armourers, dyers of thread
and cloth-makers in a few years turned the villages and towns in which they
settled into bustling production and distribution centers. They were a
source of pros perity, economic strength, building activity, and intense
competition. The caravans that trans ported the labour and skills of these
craftsmen to Vienna, Sofia and Constantinople competed with the boats from
the ports of Thessaloniki and Ka vala, which discharged their cargoes at
both ends of the Mediterranean. And since Hermes Kerdoos (the god of
commerce) invariably walked hand in hand in Greece with Hermes Lo gios (the
god of letters), as soon as the tempest of the conquest had subsided and the
Greeks had gained control of trade and production, the Greek expatriates
achieved great things in the free lands of Austro-Hungary, Germany, France
and Italy (both before and after the fall of Con stantinople); the church
assumed a leading role, supplanting the imperial authority; thirst for
knowledge and the imparting of knowledge led initially to the foundation of
church schools and then to the building of community educational in
stitutions, to which flocked not only the Greeks but also the Greek-speakers
of the Balkans.
Through benefactions from wealthy Macedo nians such as Manolakis (1682) and
Demetrios Kyritzis (1697) from Kastoria, young men were educated in Beroia,
Serrhai, Naousa, Ochrid Kleisoura and Kozani. Thanks to the inspired
teaching of men like Georgios Kontaris, schol arch (head of school) at
Kozani (1668-1673) Georgios Parakeimenos, headmaster in the same city
(1694-1707), Kallinikos Varkosis. scholarch at Siatista (until 1768), and
Kallinikos Manios in Beroia (about 1650), the Macedonians were able to
partake of ancient and ecclesiasti cal literature and were initiated into
the new achievements of science, which the intellectual pioneers of the
Greek spirit were transporting from the educated West. There were many too
however, who, either as refugees to the West or as willing emigrants,
transmitted their own pre cious lights to the regenerated world of Europe:
men like loannis Kottounios (1572-1657), lecturer in the Universities of
Padua, Bologna and Pisa. Demetrios, the Patriarch's envoy to Wurtemberg
(1559), and Metrophanis Kritopoulos, teacher of Greek in Venice (1627-1630).
Up until the beginning of the 19th century, though with a substantial break
during the period of the Russian-Turkish confrontations (1736-38 and
1768-77), the Macedonian countryside pros pered greatly and was at the same
time the scene of unprecedented building activity. New villages were
constructed and existing townships extended and beautified; amidst a climate
of prosperity and expanding trade, two-storey ar chontika (mansions) were
erected at Siatista, Kozani, Kastoria, Beroia and Florina; their tiled
roofs, carved wooden ceilings, and elegant built in wooden cupboards, their
reception rooms lav ishly painted with floral, narrative and other mo tifs,
and their spacious cellars and shady court yards, all reflected the wealth
of their owners and the achievements of a popular art that skill fully
combined the lessons of tradition with a wide variety of borrowings from
East and West.
For some time after the collapse of the Byz antine Empire, the subject
Christians of Macedo nia were content to fulfill their Christian duties by
using the churches that had escaped pillaging by the conquerors. As the
flock steadily increased, however, and the old buildings began to feel the
adverse effects of time, while the inhabitants grew more prosperous, the
need to repair and beautify the houses of God under the jurisdiction of the
Greek communities and also to erect new ones became inescapable. Painters
from Kasto ria, and then from Crete, Epirus, and Thebes, in guilds or
individually, criss-crossed Macedonia from as early as the 15th century, and
hymned the glories of the Orthodox faith with their pal ettes, some in a
primitive style, others with a more academic, refined intent. Yet others
from Hionades, Samarina, and Selitsa near Eratyra immortalized human vanity
in secular buildings and, in the encyclopedic spirit of the age, por trayed
philosophers, fantastic landscapes, the dream of the soul - Constantinople -
and the vision of progress - cities of Western Europe.
Modern times
And as the wheel of destiny, after many cen turies, furrowed the roads of
the final decision, and an unquenchable desire for freedom con sumed petty
interests and leveled out vainglori ous vacillation, the national desire to
cast of the unbearable yoke began to awaken. The year 1821 of the Uprising
in the Peloponnese lit up the peaks of mount Olympus and mount Athos. Al
though the repressive measures taken by the Turkish army and the seizure of
hostages in Thessaloniki did not dishearten the rebels of Em manuel Pappas
and the archimandrite Kallinikos Stamatiadis on Mount Athos and Thasos, who
were thirsting for action, the insurrectionaries' ignorance of military
affairs and their lack of sup plies, together with the ease with which the
Turks were able to mobilize large armies, strangled the movement at its
birth. The uprisings on Olympus and Bermion met with a similar fate, ending
in the tragedy of the holocaust of Naousa.
After the liberation of southern Greece and the foundation of the free Greek
state - the fur thering of the Great Idea -spirits were restored and, with
the invisible support of the Greek con sulate in Thessaloniki, incursions
began into Turkish-held Macedonian areas, to stir up arm bands. Tsamis
Karatasos roused Chalkidike. So, too, did Captain Georgakis. The unfavorable
turn taken by the Cretan Struggle, however, and the inability of Greeks and
Serbs to make com mon cause once again prevented a general up rising of the
Macedonians.
In the second half of the 19th century, the international conjunctures
tended to favor the other peoples of the Balkan peninsula and inter national
diplomacy adopted a hostile stance to wards Greek affairs. With the
nationalist move ments of Bulgaria rivaling the Turkish rulers in their
anti-Greek attitudes, Macedonia, the apple of strife of the south Balkans,
strove to preserve its Greek integrity by building schools and found ing
educational societies; it countered Slav ex pansionism with the historical
reality and the Or thodoxy of the Ecumenical Patriarchate, and mobilized yet
again its armed hopes and the youth of Free Greece. The Macedonian Struggle
was in preparation. From the ill-fated year of 1875, from the inauspicious
1897, despite the genocide and the hecatombs of victims, the marshes of
Yanitsa, the mountain peaks of Gre vena, the forested ravines of Florina
were trans formed into pages on which, at the turn of the 20th century, men
like Pavlos Melas, Constan tine Mazarakis-Ainian, Spyromilios, Tellos Agapi
nos (Agras) and so many others, known and anonymous, wrote the name of
Macedonian re generation in their blood. In an empire on its way to
collapse, despite the Young Turks' movement for renewal, and in opposition
to a heavily armed, irrevocably hostile Bulgaria, with Serbia as an
unreliable ally, Hellenism countered with the rights of the nation and, on
26th of October 1912, raised the flag of the cross in the capital of Ma
cedonia, Thessaloniki. Behind it, 500 years of slavery that had not
succeeded in creating slaves. Half a millennium of torture, persecution,
murder, plotting, disappointment and falsification of history donned once
more the blue and white and, with the sword of justice, opened the road to
the modern age. The age of the Balkan epic and progress.
Copyright © 1995 Ekdotike Athinon S.A.
from: Spirit of Truth
REAL
When you learn how to READ then READ my original reply to you.
kirill
>
> "kirill" <kir...@university.edu> wrote
> news:3AB8147C...@university.edu...
> > He was an Illyrian and hence Albanian :).
There is no evidence that Albanians are decended from Illyrian
either. I was being sarcastic.
REAL
http://www.tulane.edu/lester/text/Western.Architect/Pompeii/Pompeii93.html
ALEXANDER MOSAIC
From the House of the Faun
Pompeii
c. 80 B.C.
Museo Nazionale, Naples
One of the most famous pictures from the ancient world, probably a copy of a
late classical painting, this mosaic of Alexander
conquering Darius was laid into the floor of an open exedra between two
peristyles in the House of the Faun. The floor mosaic
was called tessallatum and is composed of tiny stones. This mosaic measures
about nine by seventeen feet.
-----------
http://www.hackneys.com/alex_web/graphics/mosaic.jpg
From the Museo Nazionale, Naples, Italy. Dated from the late 2nd century. B.C.,
copy of a painting dated to c. 300 B.C.
Traditionally this scene reresents the turning-point at Issus when Darius fled
the battle; but Philoxenus, the artist from whose
painting the mosaic was copied, may have incorporated elements from other
battles. Alexander's personal moment of peril seems borrowed from the Granicus,
and the confrontation also has echoes of Gaugamela.
This description is taken from a site that has many detailed photos of the
mosaic:
This mosaic depicts a battle between Alexander the Great and the Persian king
Darius, probably the Battle of the Issus River in
November of 333 B.C. It is in opus vermiculatum, with over one and a half
million tesserae, none larger than 4 mm., in four colors: white, yellow, red,
and black. The minuteness of the tesserae enables incredibly fine detail and
painterly effects, including remarkable portraits of Alexander and Darius.
The border of this huge mosaic consists of large stones in a dentate pattern .
In the corners are rosettes. Within the border along the bottom of the picture
is a blank brown stripe, which some consider to be part of the picture,
balancing the white expanse of sky at the top, while others argue that it is
simply part of the frame.
The composition of the mosaic is dominated by the two protagonists: On the left,
Alexander, with his head uncovered, rushes
forward on his horse Bucephalus. He holds a spear with which he has skewered a
Persian soldier, who has rushed to the defence of Darius. With Alexander appear
his helmeted Macedonian soldiers, although little remains of them due to damage
of the left side of the mosaic. On the right Darius, wearing a Persian cap,
stretches out his hand to his wounded defender, while his charioteer whips the
horses to flee toward the right. Around him are his Persian soldiers who mill in
confusion in the background, their faces filled with fear and determination. One
Persian, however, to the right of the dying defender of Darius, is intent upon
Alexander, and holds his sword in his hand, ready to attack.
There are many details which emphasize the terror and confusion of the battle.
The horse of the Persian defender of Darius collapses beneath him while he
writhes in agony on Alexander's spear. Below Darius in his chariot, a Persian
soldier, staring in horror at this scene, attempts to hold a rearing horse. The
hindquarters of this horse project into the middle ground of the picture, giving
it a sense of depth. To the right, a soldier is being crushed under the wheels
of Darius' chariot. His face is reflected in the shield which he holds. Further
to the right appear the terrified horses of the chariot team, trampling upon
another unfortunate Persian.
The composition of the mosaic is dominated by diagonals. The center is dominated
by the intersecting diagonals of the Persian
speared by Alexander and the Persian restraining the rearing horse. Two other
sets of intersecting diagonals are provided by the figures of Darius and his
charioteer and by Alexander and the wounded Persian. The lances in the
background of the picture also carry on the diagonal motif.
The setting of the battle is very stylized. In the background appears a tree
with bare twisted limbs whose diagonals continue the
unifying compositional motif of the mosaic. The tree also serves as a formal
vertical counterweight to the Persian king and his
charioteer, who rise above the battle fray. In the foreground are discarded
weapons and rocks, which serve to define the space
between the viewer and the battle scene.
The Alexander mosaic is thought to be based on a painting which Philoxenus of
Eretria created for King Cassander of Macedonia. The painting is described by
Pliny the Elder as representing "the battle of Alexander with Darius." Certain
inconsistencies in the mosaic point to its derivation from another source. In
the center of the composition appears a helmeted head to the right of the
rearing horse. Two lance shafts come from the left and abruptly stop behind this
he d. To the right of the same head appears a head of a horse and beneath this
are the hindquarters of another horse, neither of which is logically completed.
Among the four horses of Darius' chariot there are parts of a white horse which
do not fit together anatomically. Above these horses is a Persian soldier who
appears to have two right hands, one on his head and the other raised in the
air. These details provide evidence that the mosaicist misunderstood details of
the original.
Nevertheless, the overall effect of the mosaic is masterful. The expert blending
of the colors of the tesserae and the careful control of the overall composition
create a scene which comes to life with all the horror and confusion of battle.
The Alexander mosaic is a truly great work, unmatched in the history of Roman
art.
-----
I am inclined to believe more in what scholars believe to be a copy of late
classical painting than your say so. As for Blond/Blue eyes greeks.. I have seen
many but that of course that is besides the point.
As for the Ancient Macedonians, I suggest you READ the facts in my original
reply to you.
John Alep
Had Illyrians Greek names toponyms, ways, gods, language and spread Greek
Language and Civilization to the World, TOO ??
Yannis Alep
Macedonia, Greece
John Alep
Hellenes". Let it be so !!
But the first Macedonian King's known name is Karanos of -12c. The word is
Greek from the similar words kranos ( =helmet ) and kara ( =head). One needs
to explain how this old Macedonian had a Greek name. The oldest known
Macedonian toponyms are Emathia, Lyngos, Elimeia, Aliakmon, Aigai, ....
Why all these toponyms are Greek?
Yannis Alep
Macedonia, Greece
Voyager
I seems that he has no more lies to say
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
So the Greeks weren't blond with blue eyes ;-)))))))))))
Anyway others has posted the truth about the Greek origin
of Macedonians already and there's no need for me to add
something.
I saw absolutely no evidence from you to support your claim
and of course i'm not wonder why :-)))))))))))))
But since you mention about Ilyrians tell as which way you came
to the conclusion that Ilyrians (what ever that means) are the
are the ancestors of the Albanians. ???
BTW boy have you any idea about the wars of Macedonians
against the Ilyrians for centuries ?????????
The used to fight for centuries and Phillip the II first and Alexander
the Great after won them before he start his campaign to Persia.
Furthermore with the name Ilyrians they used to call in the antiquity
many tribes who can't call them necessarily similar.
Those tribes used to live in a very big area, and it was known by
many names like Parthians, Dardanians etc, and some of them
seems to have Greek-Thracian origin.
For example see the helmet and the coins of one Dardanian-Ilyrian
king (the King Momounios) and watch the Greek epigraph on them.
I guess you know that the name Ilyrian is of Greek origin and i don't
have to mention more things about.
In the photos bellow the helmet of a soldier of the King Monounios
with the Greek epigraph"Βασιλεως Μονουνιου"- "Vasileos Monouniou"
and coins of King Monounios with the same epigraph in Greek.
It seems that at least some of the Ilyrians used to speak Greek
since we have no evidence to know which their language was.
Right boy ????????
Source of the photo the book of John Wilkes "The Illyrians"
Odysseas publications.
John Wilkes is a professor of Greek-Roman archeology in the
University of Yates and he's working in the institute of archeology
of the University College of London
Voyager
Genc Ymeri wrote
Genc Ymeri
> But since you mention about Ilyrians tell as which way you came
> to the conclusion that Ilyrians (what ever that means) are the
> are the ancestors of the Albanians. ???
>
> BTW boy have you any idea about the wars of Macedonians
> against the Ilyrians for centuries ?????????
Yes the Mother of Aleksander was Illyrians too (Olimbia). Our Kings Clitus
and Glaus fought against him.
BTW Glaus expelled all Greeks emigrants from Apollonia e South Albania.
Later on, our King Glaus of Taulantus, saved Pirro from Greeks.
Pirro Grew up in Taulants Kingdom and later, he rettook all terrotories with
Taulants help..................
Genc Ymeri
> No answer here from Genc Ymeri. hmmmm
>
> I seems that he has no more lies to say
>
If we were good in lying, Albania now should be united !
Genc Ymeri
> There is no evidence that Albanians are decended from Illyrian
> either. I was being sarcastic.
Better see a Phsycologist !
Check this out ;
www.brittanica.com
(British Encyclopedia)
http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/r?frd/cstdy:@field(DOCID+al0014)
(Library of US Congress)
Genc Ymeri
"You" does not mean " rea...@SPAMTRAPPEDHotmail.com " but I have
generalized all of those greeks who lie that Aleksander was a greek.
"REAL" <rea...@SPAMTRAPPEDHotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3AB8E071...@SPAMTRAPPEDHotmail.com...
Amigocabal
direct descendants of the Seljuks of Rum, a Mongolian tribe!
Amigocabal
Genc Ymeri wrote:
Serbs are too stupid to understand history, Genci, besides what would they know
about the Balkans when they came on the Balkans four hundred years after
Albanians became Christians!
REAL
Pomepei lie?
Are you dreaming? You have not READ or UNDERSTOOD my original reply to
you. I have understood your response totally. There was NOTHING to back
up what you said jst your say so. And that is a FACT.
June R Harton
"Genc Ymeri" <GENC-...@mediaone.net> wrote
> Yes the Mother of Aleksander was Illyrians too (Olimbia).
I told you that that is totally untrue. She was Mollosian...identified
completely as Greeks as far back as Herodotos.
> Our Kings Clitus
> and Glaus fought against him.
> BTW Glaus expelled all Greeks emigrants from Apollonia e South Albania.
> Later on, our King Glaus of Taulantus, saved Pirro from Greeks.
Sorry, he too was Greek, and you cannot have him either.
> Pirro Grew up in Taulants Kingdom and later, he rettook all terrotories
with
> Taulants help..................
However, he was a Greek boy.
:)
Voyager
this one below. Where are they.
You didn't answer so far in about 10 of my questions.
Olybias it's a Greek name after all and since i mention
about the wars of Ilyrians against Macedonias let's talk
now about the wars of Ilyrians against Epirots.
Have you any idea about ????????
Epirus was one of the harts of the Greek revolution against
the Turks, the history of that period is well known to everybody.
You're making your self a joke saying all these lies and nonsense.
BTW Epirus it's also a Greek word, Ditto Illyria.
Where is your evidence which can prove that llyrians are
the ancestors of the Albanians. ??????????
BTW Ilyrians what ever that means.
Voyager
Genc Ymeri wrote
Voyager
in simple questions
Voyager
REAL wrote
Amigocabal
Pompeian artists used many fanciful subjects in their depictions, some of
the subjects, were mythical by nature!
Amigocabal
enhance the achievements of the other. During most of the medieval times all
of you were Roman citizens, and knew nothing about the stupid differences
you are now ranting about!
June R Harton
"Amigocabal" <par...@bellsouth.net> wrote
> My oh my, how does all this diminish the achievements of one nation, or
> enhance the achievements of the other. During most of the medieval times
all
> of you were Roman citizens, and knew nothing about the stupid differences
> you are now ranting about!
Are you able to handle one subject at a time? If so I suggest you
start again.
Amigocabal
June R Harton wrote:
> "Amigocabal" <par...@bellsouth.net> wrote
> > My oh my, how does all this diminish the achievements of one nation, or
> > enhance the achievements of the other. During most of the medieval times
> all
> > of you were Roman citizens, and knew nothing about the stupid differences
> > you are now ranting about!
>
> Are you able to handle one subject at a time? If so I suggest you
> start again.
>
That is one subject at a time, unless you think that all of you were not Romans
at one time!
June R Harton
"Amigocabal" <par...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:3ABABB18...@bellsouth.net...
> > Are you able to handle one subject at a time? If so I suggest you
> > start again.
> That is one subject at a time, unless you think that all of you were not
Romans
> at one time!
Start a new thread, if you wish. Otherwise shut up.
From: Spirit Of The Real Makedon
(using June's e-mail to communicate to you)!
........The heart of Macedonia was always Greek
REAL
Read it again:
Genc Ymeri says "Don't forget that Aleksander the Great was blond with blue
eyes" with NO SUBSTANTIATION. I posted evidence to show that the Alexander
mosaic is based on A CLASSICAL PAINTING closest to ALEXANDERS TIME and that
Alexander is not blonde with blue eyes, and the mosaic is not by "Fanciful
Pompeian artists" as you insinuate, for which you provide NO SUBSTANTIATION
at all.
No need to take my word for it. - Read it!
http://www.tulane.edu/lester/text/Western.Architect/Pompeii/Pompeii93.html
Genc Ymeri
> However, he was a Greek boy.
Herodotus "Epirr is populated from barbarians, and they speak barbarian
language "
REAL
King Pyrrhus of Epirus landed on the southern Italian shore with 30000 men
to defend his fellow Greek speakers (who were resident of Tarentum) against
Roman domination. While Pyrrhus won the first battle, he lost half his men
(and ultimately, the war). The term PYRRHIC VICTORY comes from this
devastating battle. (From Haaren's Famous Men of Greece)
Famous Men of Greece Trade Paperback, 146 Pages, Greenleaf Press, October
1989 ISBN: 1882514017 Author: Shearer, Cynthia A. / Haaren, John H. /
Poland, A. B.
Also
Pausanias, Description of Greece
XI. The Athenians have also a statue of Pyrrhus. This Pyrrhus was not
related to Alexander, except by ancestry. Pyrrhus was son of Aeacides, son
of Arybbas, but Alexander was son of Olympias, daughter of Neoptolemus, and
the father of Neoptolemus and Aryblas was Alcetas, son of Tharypus. And
from Tharypus to Pyrrhus, son of Achilles, are fifteen generations. Now
Pyrrhus was the first who after the capture of Troy disdained to return to
Thessaly, but sailing to Epeirus dwelt there because of the oracles of
Helenus. By Hermione Pyrrhus had no child, but by Andromache he had
Molossus, Pielus, and Pergamus, who was the youngest. Helenus also had a
son, Cestrinus, being married to Andromache after the murder of Pyrrhus at
Delphi. Helenus on his death passed on the kingdom to Molossus, son of
Pyrrhus, so that Cestrinus with volunteers from the Epeirots took
possession of the region beyond the river Thyamis, while Pergamus crossed
into Asia and killed Areius, despot in Teuthrania, who fought with him in
single combat for his kingdom, and gave his name to the city which is still
called after him. To Andromache, who accompanied him, there is still a
shrine in the city. Pielus remained behind in Epeirus, and to him as
ancestor Pyrrhus, the son of Aeacides, and his fathers traced their
descent, and not to Molossus. Down to Alcetas, son of Tharypus, Epeirus too
was under one king. But the sons of Alcetas after a quarrel agreed to rule
with equal authority, remaining faithful to their compact; and afterwards,
when Alexander, son of Neoptolemus, died among the Leucani,
and Olympias returned to Epeirus through fear of Antipater, Aeacides, son
of Arybbas, continued in allegiance to Olympias and joined in her campaign
against Aridaeus and the Macedonians, although the Epeirots refused to
accompany him. Olympias on her victory behaved wickedly in the matter of
the death of Aridaeus, and much more wickedly to certain Macedonians, and
for this reason was considered to have deserved her subsequent treatment at
the hands of Cassander; so Aeacides at first was not received even by the
Epeirots because of their hatred of Olympias, and when after wards they
forgave him, his return to Epeirus was next opposed by Cassander. When a
battle occurred at Oeneadae between Philip, brother of Cassander, and
Aeacides, Aeacides was wounded and shortly after met his fate. The Epeirots
accepted Alcetas as their king, being the son of Arybbas and the elder
brother of Aeacides, but of an uncontrollable temper and on this account
banished by his father. Immediately on his arrival he began to vent his
fury on the Epeirots, until they rose up and put him and his children to
death at night. After killing him they brought back Pyrrhus, son of
Aeacides.
XXXV. The Emperor Trajan granted civic freedom and autonomy to the people
of Mothone. In earlier days they were the only people of Messenia on the
coast to suffer a disaster like the following: Thesprotian Epirus was
ruined by anarchy. For Deidameia the daughter of Pyrrhus, being without
children, handed over the government to the people when she was on the
point of death. She was the daughter of Pyrrhus, son of Ptolemy, son of
Alexander, son of Pyrrhus. I have told the facts relating to Pyrrhus the
son of Aeacides in my account of the Athenians. Procles the Carthaginian
indeed rated Alexander the son of Philip higher on account of his good
fortune and for the brilliance of his achievements, but said that Pyrrhus
was the better man in infantry and cavalry tactics and in the invention of
stratagems of war. When the Epirots were rid of their kings, the people
threw off all control and disdained to listen to their magistrates, and the
Illyrians who live on the Ionian sea above Epirus reduced them by a raid.
We have yet to hear of a democracy bringing prosperity to a nation other
than the Athenians; the Athenians attained to greatness by its means, for
they surpassed the Greek world in native wit, and least disregarded the
established laws. Now the Illyrians, having tasted empire and being always
desirous of more, built ships, and plundering others whom they fell in
with, put in to the coast of Mothone and anchored as in a friendly port.
Sending a messenger to the city they asked for wine to be brought to their
ships. A few men came with it and they bought the wine at the price which
the inhabitants asked, and themselves sold a part of their cargo. When on
the following day a larger number arrived from the town, they allowed them
also to make their profit. Finally women and men came down to the ships to
sell wine and trade with the barbarians. Thereupon by a bold stroke the
Illyrians carried off a number of men and still more of the women. Carrying
them on board ship, they set sail for the Ionian sea, having desolated the
city of the Mothonaeans.
Also:
So Pyrrhus was the first to cross the Ionian Sea from Greece to attack the
Romans. And even he crossed on the invitation of the Tarentines. For they
were already involved in a war with the Romans, but were no match for them
unaided. Pyrrhus was already in their debt, because they had sent a fleet
to help him in his war with Corcyra, but the most cogent arguments of the
Tarentine envoys were their accounts of Italy, how its prosperity was equal
to that of the whole of Greece, and their plea that it was wicked to
dismiss them when they had come as friends and suppliants in their hour of
need. When the envoys urged these considerations, Pyrrhus remembered the
capture of Troy, which he took to be an omen of his success in the war, as
he was a descendant of Achilles making war upon a colony of Trojans.
Pleased with this proposal, and being a man who never lost time when once
he had made up his mind, he immediately proceeded to man war ships and to
prepare transports to carry horses and men-at-arms. There are books written
by men of no renown as historians, entitled Memoirs. When I read these I
marvelled greatly both at the personal bravery of Pyrrhus in battle, and
also at the forethought he displayed whenever a contest was imminent.
So on this occasion also when crossing to Italy with a fleet he eluded the
observation of the Romans, and for some time after his arrival they were
unaware of his presence; it was only when the Romans made an attack upon
the Tarentines that he appeared on the scene with his army, and his
unexpected assault naturally threw his enemies into confusion. And being
perfectly aware that he was no match for the Romans, he prepared to let
loose against them his elephants. The first European to acquire elephants
was Alexander, after subduing Porus and the power of the Indians; after his
death others of the kings got them but Antigonus more than any; Pyrrhus
captured his beasts in the battle with Demetrius. When on this occasion
they came in sight the Romans were seized with panic, and did not believe
they were animals. For although the use of ivory in arts and crafts all men
obviously have known from of old, the actual beasts, before the Macedonians
crossed into Asia, nobody had seen at all except the Indians themselves,
the Libyans, and their neighbours.
This is proved by Homer, who describes the couches and houses of the more
prosperous kings as ornamented with ivory, but never mentions the beast;
but if he had seen or heard about it he would, in my opinion have been much
more likely to speak of it than of the battle between the Dwarf-men and
cranes. Pyrrhus was brought over to Sicily by an embassy of the Syracusans.
The Carthaginians had crossed over and were destroying the Greek cities,
and had sat down to invest Syracuse, the only one now remaining. When
Pyrrhus heard this from the envoys he abandoned Tarentum and the Italiots
on the coast, and crossing into Sicily forced the Carthaginians to raise
the siege of Syracuse. In his self-conceit, although the Carthaginians,
being Phoenicians of Tyre by ancient descent, were more experienced sea men
than any other non-Greek people of that day, Pyrrhus was nevertheless
encouraged to meet them in a naval battle, employing the Epeirots, the
majority of whom, even after the capture of Troy, knew no thing of the sea
nor even as yet how to use salt. Witness the words of Homer in the
Odyssey:--
Nothing they know of ocean, and mix not salt
with their victuals.
---------------
Also
Plutarch's Lives, still inspirational after 19 centuries: 15 Ancient Greek
Heroes (www.e-classics.com)
P Y R R H U S (319 - 272 B.C.) P U R R O S by Plutarch
In Pyrrhus' wild career of restless trouble-making, we see a soul incapable
of satisfaction. He was a mighty man of war, and nearly conquered Rome,
but he could never finish what he started before getting distracted by a
new project.
Epirus is on the northwestern coast of Greece. The kings there were
descended from that Pyrrhus (a.k.a. Neoptolemus) who was the son of
Achilles, the famous Greek warrior of the Trojan War. Both Pyrrhus and
Alexander were worthy descendants of Achilles, who, like them, was a fiery
warrior whose restless soul could never be at peace.
-------------
.....when Appius Claudius heard that the Roman senate was about to vote on
peace with Pyrrhus, he commanded his servants to carry him there in his
chair, and his sons and sons-in-law carried him in. Appius Claudius was
very old, and he was blind. He had been retired for many years, and only
this crisis had roused him to action. Out of reverence for this
distinguished general, the senate was respectfully silent.
"My blindness," he said, "has been a great annoyance to me, but now that I
hear about these dishonorable proposals of yours, I wish I were deaf as
well. Do you remember your brave words about Alexander? How you bragged
that if he dared to come into Italy, he would not now be called 'the
Great.' Today you prove that those words were nothing but foolish
arrogance. You tremble at the name of Pyrrhus, who was only a servant to
one of Alexander's guards [Demetrius], and comes here as a fugitive from
enemies at home. Do not persuade ourselves that making him your friend is
the way to get rid of him. Oh no -- that is the way to invite over others
from Greece, who will despise Rome as easy prey. That is what you can
look forward to if Pyrrhus gets away unpunished."
--------
Want more to rebute your "say so revisionism"? There's plenty more. As for
the quote from Herodotus..it sounds like something you wrote yourself. What
is Epirr? Are you quoting Herodotus on that? Or is that a place on Mars?
arch...@erols.com
Amigocabal wrote:
> My oh my, how does all this diminish the achievements of one nation, or
> enhance the achievements of the other. During most of the medieval times all
> of you were Roman citizens, and knew nothing about the stupid differences
> you are now ranting about!
Alex,
Good point.
And so were you
gogu
news:KrUu6.178902$Z8.37...@typhoon.southeast.rr.com...
>
> > However, he was a Greek boy.
> Sure , this is what our greek nationalism says.
REAL responded to you in an other message and smashed (sic) your false
allegations.
> Herodotus "Epirr is populated from barbarians, and they speak barbarian
> language "
Io, BARBARIAN!
Many posters asked you to give the exact information where this passage from
Herodotus is! But you like a genuine COWARD and LIAR never did such a thing,
but you are continuing to repeat like a parrot your forged "Herodotus
passage"! Herodotus clearly says that Epirus was populated by Molossus. He
mentions barbarians (like you) in an other place, near Epirus!
That's what you nazis are: LIARS, COWARDS, CRETINS.
Get lost you illiterate baboon!!
June R Harton
<arch...@erols.com> wrote
No, Gail Schneider, it was not a good point. It was a non-sequitur....
but come to think of it, you would think that was good.
June R Harton
"REAL" <rea...@SPAMTRAPPEDHotmail.com> wrote an
excellent rebuke of Genc's nonsense
AND
> Want more to rebute your "say so revisionism"? There's plenty more. As
for
> the quote from Herodotus..it sounds like something you wrote yourself.
What
> is Epirr? Are you quoting Herodotus on that?
He is _not_.
Voyager
REAL wrote
Genc Ymeri
> language "
Ok, just tell me if this statement is false !
John Alep
serious scholars aggre that Epirots were ALWAYS Greek. All inscriptions
there are in Greek with Greek letters. Molossians had a Greek name. The word
"molossos" is used today in Greek language for the mastiff thick dogs !!
Yannis
Macedonia, Greece
kirill
>
> Herodotus ( and Thucydides) wasn't frank ! After Dodoni's findings ALL
> serious scholars aggre that Epirots were ALWAYS Greek. All inscriptions
> there are in Greek with Greek letters. Molossians had a Greek name. The word
> "molossos" is used today in Greek language for the mastiff thick dogs !!
I wish these alleged "Illyrians" would provide evidence of the link between
their current language and that of the actual Illyrians (whichever subtribe
they purport to be at least).
Anastassios D. Retzios, Ph.D.
"Genc Ymeri" <GENC-...@mediaone.net> wrote in message
news:Cc2v6.180587$Z8.38...@typhoon.southeast.rr.com...
> > Herodotus "Epirr is populated from barbarians, and they speak barbarian
> > language "
>
> Ok, just tell me if this statement is false !
>
Yes, it is absolutely false
gogu
> > Herodotus "Epirr is populated from barbarians, and they speak barbarian
> > language "
>
> Ok, just tell me if this statement is false !
It is false!
I asked you to give the exact passage, page, translation, edition, etc. You
failed to do that. If what you say is true, I don't see why you can not
provide that information. Hence, you are lying! The rest is just provocative
mambo-jumbo.
PS
And certainly "Epirus is not populated FROM barbarians" but at least
BY:-))) Gheghe?
PS2
And Herodotus was not always right. This is proved and accepted by all
historians. Why don't you ask them about your idiotic statement? But again,
what the hell do they know?:-))) They are ALL paid by Greeks, isn't it?:-)))
Voyager
Herodotus didn't wrote such a thing.
Genc Ymeri wrote
EA
And, if anyone has any doubts, they can go to:
www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/perscoll?collection=Perseus:collection:Greco-
Roman
and do an online search through the entire text of Herodotus. The words
Epirus (or Epiros, Epeiros, and "Epirr") do not appear anywhere in his
writing.
Ζητω η 25η Μαρτιου!
Manos
arch...@erols.com
THen post the text that refutes what Genj has to say
Anastassios D. Retzios
<arch...@erols.com> wrote in message news:3ABF96E6...@erols.com...
How can I generate a text that does not exist? Herodotus refers extensively
to Dodoni which is, of course, in Epirus as a pre-eminent oracle in the
Greek world.
EA
<aaNv6.15287$ue1.1...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>:
(Sorry I'm replying to your post but I did not get his...)
Some additional information:
Herodotus made it clear that the people of Epirus were Greek. Not only the
names he reports are Greek names but he also explicitly states they were
Greek. For example:
Herodotus, The Histories (ed. A. D. Godley): book 4, chapter 33, section 1
"They say that offerings wrapped in straw are...brought on to the south,
the people of Dodona being the first ***Greeks*** to receive them."
[empasis added}
The word "Epirus" (or Epeirus, Epirous, Epirr) does not appear in
Herodotus. The only text that sounds similar to the one Genc posted is one
which has the total opposite meaning. It states that the people of dodona
learned divination from a woman who was speaking a barbaric language
(therefore, they spoke Greek) and were calling her "dove" because her
language sounded to them like the sound of a bird. It seems that Genc used
a bad translation or that he took a few words out of context and
mistranslated them.
Manos
gogu
news:3ABF96E6...@erols.com...
When someone sustains something, HE must provide the source!!! Not others!
When someone calls you a "whore", you can sue him and the judge will call
him to provide evidence of what he sustains! If not, he is a LIAR and a
CALUMNIATOR and he will be condemned! Same applies here.
But this is of no importance to you filth, you just want to support every
anti-Greek idiot on internet!
Well, nothing new, you hypocrite!
gogu
news:Xns906F547...@207.106.92.226...
Thanks for the help Manos!
It's so easy to expose the lies of all those illiterates.
gogu
news:20010326184312...@ng-ff1.news.cs.com...
> ? <arch...@erols.com> ?????? ??? ??????
> Considder the following: we are already convicted
??? "convicted"??? Convinced you mean, you Albo-pithecus ignoramus:-))) LOL
> of our opinion that
> Everything north of acarnania was non-greek settlement. you are not
convicted
??? "convicted"??? Convinced you mean, you Albo-pithecus ignoramus:-))) LOL
> therefore we not you should look for the source.
LOL "we not you should look"??? We don't understand what you want to say,
you Albo-pithecus ignoramus:-))) LOL
> It would be a great waste of
> my time to go look for one passage in the middle of Heredotus, Thucidides
or
> Polybius.
Hehehehe:-))) Of course you LIAR!!! When you have nothing, you are leaving
the thread with your tail under your ass, you COWARD LIAR!!!
> I have seen this passage and i know its somewhere there,
LOL LOL LOL Of course!!! That's the way Albos are re-writing history:-))))
"i know its somewhere there":-)))) LOL LOL LOL
Wake up you MOROOOOOOOOOOON!!!!
> therefore my
> conviction is unflinching.
LOL "conviction"???????? Again??? No such word in English, you Albo-pithecus
ignoramus:-))) LOL
You are pathetic BARBARIAN:-)))
> You on the other hand simply lack the historical
> expertise to make any judgement about the books which you obviously
haven't
> read.
Of course I did, you Albo-pithecus ignoramus:-))) Have a look:
Herodotus, The Histories (ed. A. D. Godley): book 4, chapter 33, section 1
"They say that offerings wrapped in straw are...brought on to the south,
the people of Dodona being the first ***Greeks*** to receive them."
[empasis added}
The word "Epirus" (or Epeirus, Epirous, Epirr) does not appear in
Herodotus. The only text that sounds similar to the one Genc posted is one
which has the total opposite meaning. It states that the people of dodona
learned divination from a woman who was speaking a barbaric language
(therefore, they spoke Greek) and were calling her "dove" because her
language sounded to them like the sound of a bird. It seems that Genc used
a bad translation or that he took a few words out of context and
mistranslated them.
> Instead if baying like a donkey about history which obviously you know
> nothing about
Hehehe:-))) The proof lies there:-)))
> you should go mourn the fact that albania has beaten the greek
> soccer team 2 to zero and so you worthless greeks should quit soccer
> alltogether.
LOL LOL LOL
What a great statement! What a cultural event!
Well, that's the only culture you know animals, enjoy it:-))))
Ciao moronoglou:-)))
UCK and Albo nazis are CHICKENS:-)))