Trifkovic's response to Ganic-BBC
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SKY TV NEWS INTERVIEW WITH S. TRIFKOVIC
Sunday, 6 November 1994, 08:10GMT
Interviewer: Martin Stanford
Verbatim transcript of programme-as-broadcast
Sky News: How do you see this current conflict: is it another phase in
preparation for another long winter of attrition or do you think it could
be the final stage in this war?
Trifkovic: The light is not at the end of the tunnel, as yet. Right now
the Muslims are feeling very gang-ho, and optimistic about their
prospects. They believe that they can strike out of the so-called
protected zones in the full knowledge that the Serbs cannot strike back,
because then NATO would bomb them on UN orders. However, as so many times
in the past in this conflict, it is really the political essence of the
conflict that needs to be reexamined. It concerns the constitutional
settlement more than the maps. The very moment the international community
accepts the need for the three constituent nations in former
Bosnia-Herzegovina to have their right to self-determination recognised, I
believe that the Serbs will actually be induced to sign, just as they did
in Geneva in December of last year, when they signed the Owen-Stoltenberg
plan.
Sky News: What is lacking at the moment - the fact that the Bosnian Serbs
are not recognised in that respect?
Trifkovic: Exactly. Everybody is talking about the 49-51 division,
according to the contact group plan, but nobody is talking about the
constitutional package. I believe that for the Serb side the problem is
not so much with the map itself, but with the fact that the contact group
only talks about 'the Republic of Bosnia-Herzegovina' as a single unit,
and the Serb 'entity'. Furthermore, the Croat-Muslim 'federation' is given
the right to confederate with Croatia, while the Americans are still
resolutely standing in the way of the right of the Serbs to confederate
with Serbia. Of course, as we know, Kozyrev and Juppe are saying, off the
record and even officially, that the Serbs would be given this right - but
unless and until this is included in the text of the agreement, then...
Sky News: But does Belgrade still want them? Mr. Milosevic is showing
every sign of being utterly fed up with the activities of his cousins in
Bosnia!
Trifkovic: It is not that Milosevic is 'fed up' with Dr. Karadzic; Mr.
Milosevic is apprehensive of Karadzic turning into a potential rival -
even without Karadzic's will to do so. Right now Milosevic has effectively
marginalised all the opposition forces within Serbia itself, and a
triumphant Bosnian-Serb republic which unites with Serbia would obviously
provide a counterpoise to Milosevic's monopoly of power. Now, Milosevic
has never been a 'Serb nationalist' - this is a fundamental misperception
in the West. He has always been a neo-communist apparatchik who has taken
the mantle of Serb nationalism in order to perpetuate the system of
political power and control inherited from Tito.
Sky News: The Americans want to allow the Bosnian government to have arms,
to lift the arms embargo. They are going to try and push it through the
Security Council this week. How would that alter the balance of things as
you see it?
Trifkovic: Not in the short term. But in the longer term this would really
threaten NATO, and it would threaten the nature of trans-Atlantic
relationships, not only between Moscow and Washington, but also between
London and Paris and Washington. [Sky News: It would have repercussions
all over the place?] Yes, indeed.
TRIFKOVIC'S RESPONSE TO GANIC ON BBC WORLD SERVICE
Saturday, 5 November 1994, 21:15GMT
Verbatim transcript of programme-as-broadcast
On Saturday, 5 November, Dr. Srdja Trifkovic was interviewed for
the BBC World Service current affairs programme 'Newshour' immediately
after the Bosnian Muslim vice-president, Ejup Ganic. In his replies, Mr.
Ganic claimed that the objective of Izetbegovic's government was to
continue with the offensive in order to 'bring the Serbs to the
negotiating table' and to 'liberate all occupied territories of Bosnia
Herzegivina'. He also claimed that Dr. Karadzic was no longer qualified to
represent the Serbs in Bosnia in any further negotiations. The first
question to Dr. Trifkovic was whether the Muslim offensive would indeed
'force the Bosnian Serbs back to the negotiating table' :
Trifkovic: The Serbs have been at the negotiating table all along. The
Serbs signed the Owen-Stoltenberg plan in Geneva last December; so did the
Croats. Only the Muslims did not, which was the reason for the
continuation of the war. The Serbs will most certainly come back to the
negotiating table as soon as the contact group says that there will be
modifications to the plan. It is ridiculous to represent 'the will of the
international community' in the form of a take it or leave it proposal.
Politics is a dynamic process. The Serbs cannot sign a plan which does not
give them the constitutional right to self-determination. But Mr. Ganic is
saying something else! He is saying that the Muslim government in Sarajevo
is in charge of the entire territory of former Bosnia-Herzegovina, and
that they will pursue this war to - as he put it - 'liberate all occupied
areas'. Now we know that in Bosnia only the Bosnian Serbs are doing the
fighting on the Serb side. To call the Bosnian Serbs 'occupiers' on their
own land is tantamount to declaring war on the entire Serb nation in
Bosnia.
BBC: But isn't it true to say, though, that the Bosnian Serbs were quite
happy to wait for a diplomatic solution for as long as they had military
supremacy, but they might now think again after these military setbacks?
Trifkovic: I would put it the other way round. Nobody was giving credit to
the Bosnian Serbs for their restraint at the time when they could have
taken Tuzla, Zenica, Travnik, or - indeed - Sarajevo itself. Nobody is
taking into account the fact that Dr. Karadzic's overt strategy had always
been that the Serbs do not want to occupy Muslim- inhabited areas, that
they simply want to separate themselves from the Muslims, and to have
three republics in former Bosnia-Herzegovina, possibly in the form of some
loose union. They most certainly do not want to be ruled from Muslim
Sarajevo. It is a rather nasty regime and I think that any fair and
objective assessment would give the Serbs at least the benefit of the
doubt. Subjecting themselves to the tender mercies of the likes of
Izetbegovic is a destiny worse than death.
BBC: But Ganic seems to have a very dim view of Mr. Radovan Karadzic. At
the moment he seems to think of him as a man who is isolated from
Bosnian-Serb opinion, and is waiting for somebody else to step forward who
would be more representative...
Trifkovic: I don't think that Mr. Ganic is qualified to dictate who will
negotiate on behalf of the Serbs in former Bosnia-Herzegovina. I think,
however, that his statements are very bellicose, that they reflect the
gang-ho mood in Muslim Sarajevo that the going is good. But I am telling
you now that if the going gets tough, and if they get a bloody nose like
they did so many times before, Mr. Ganic will come to you crying wolf and
saying that the international community is obliged to bail them out. I
hope that this time the international community will know better!
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