Thai Christian Message Board
Farsaeng Chankasemporn
at Thai Christian Homepage
http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Towers/7680
or
http://www.thaichristian.com/hatyai
D.B. Cooper
such as this. Your true goal is to proselytize Thais into your
particular set of cult beliefs. Buddism is far superior to your religion
in every way so give your colonialist ways a rest, why don't you. I've
seen your fine new church buildings in the midsts of hilltribe hovels
and I've heard of the lies and bribes you offer to win them over. You
bastard missionary make me sick. Go home, nobody wants you in S.E.Asia.
Fucked regards, D.B.
Lom yen
your post and all the anger and predjudice it envokes, it is hard to see any
friuts of your beliefs, including tolerance, humility, etc. What are you doing
in the hilltribes, enlighting them on your western cultural ways or living the
lie of pretending to be of free and independent of materialist ways while you
receive your check from home. Or maybe there to trek and share your aquired
knowledge on drug use? Or is it to help build lodging, educate and provide
food, clothing and medical care? Your right, no Budist temple is ever so
lavish as those "bastard" Christian churches, Gold buddas, gold leaf as thick
as mud, begging for food from those who at times can barely feed themselves!
No those temples are the model of meager living.
Funny hearing a farrang telling others to go home and how they are not wanted,
very funny indeed! :) Your frequent use of the "f" word speaks volumes of your
low mental and spirtual state. May God bless you in your search for pease with
yourself.
was...@hotmail.com
> lavish as those "bastard" Christian churches, Gold buddas, gold leaf as thick
> as mud, begging for food from those who at times can barely feed themselves!
> No those temples are the model of meager living.
If you really care to defend Christian Churches or for that matter any
other churches, it would not do to blast another religion. Yours is bad than
mine is not a good way to foster your argument. Why not accentuate the
positive aspect of the Christian churches that help educate the poor, provide
education, sanitation etc. Thais are not averse to any religion. Why not
emulate Dr Bradley who did a world of good for Thailand's education and
hygiene during King Rama V reign? Don't continue the flame war, please.
wasant
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum
Joris Goetschalckx
Hi DB,
I would have put it in more civilised words but in content I agree... This
reminds me of a great post on the SEALANG mailing list from Matthew McDaniel
of the Akha Heritage Foundation. I am sure he will not mind me reposting it in
this context.
=== BEGIN CITATION ===
Black Friday in an Akha Village
DRAFT DECLARATION ON THE RIGHTS OF
INDIGENOUS PEOPLES
ARTICLE 12
"Indigenous peoples have the right to practice and
revitalize their cultural traditions and customs. This
includes the right to maintain, protect and develop the
past, present and future manifestations of their cultures,
such as archaeological and historical sites, artefacts,
designs, ceremonies, technologies and visual and
performing arts and literature, as well as the right to the
restitution of cultural, intellectual, religious and spiritual
property taken without their free and informed consent or
in violation of their laws, traditions and customs."
***
I and a friend fought our way up mud track roads after a
four hour trip to reach one of Northern Thailand's most
remote Akha villages, Hur Mae Khom.
We had a gift of writing books and pencils for the last
traditional families in the village. Two weeks before the
headman told me that the Chinese Baptists had come and
convinced three quarters of the village to become
Christian. From personally checking with the families
they had told me that it was required that they abandon
all of their traditions in the process. Finished.
So when I climbed the ladder to the headman's porch and
sat down I was greatly concerned as he sadly poured me
tea. I and my friend drank while he related the events of
the last two weeks.
There had been five or six families that stuck with him.
There was one village elder living up the hill that was
helping to hold it all together. The headman had not
invited the missionaries and did not approve of their
demands. But then some time in the last week they had
convinced the elder to join their forces below and
abandon the headman. So he moved down to those huts.
The other families soon followed along. What could he
do, with the last elder gone from the tradition there was
no one left to teach the old ways to the families. He was
more than just a little sad, saddest that I had ever seen
him. Though the huts had not moved he was now a
headman without a village and the new puppet pastor the
new functional headman. He knew that the missionaries
always promised to give lots to the people if they
converted. Meanwhile the villagers were still asking for
medicine that the missionaries apparently weren't
including in the deal.
I went down into the other huts and was immediately
struck by all the changes being imposed on the people.
Numerous women were no longer wearing their
headresses as they had been so proudly doing all the
years that I had supplied medicine to this village. I asked
them why and they said they couldn't any more. Some of
the older women still hung on. But the pressure was now
definitely there to abandon them. There would be no
traditional practices, songs, or dances at all now, possibly
something would be allowed at Christmas. The woman
who practices the traditional knowledge and medicine for
the village was stopped. She was told that it was evil and
that she could no longer treat people's illnesses.
In the name of their religious beliefs, and quite in
contradition with the spirit of those beliefs, the
missionaries are eradicating Akha culture in village after
village. The Akha, with probably 98% written illiteracy,
their books the elders, have no way or perspective by
which to judge this method that comes with all the
promises of prosperity. Prosperity that seldom
materializes. From a standpoint of incredible rapid
economic change and severe poverty they are being
robbed of their rich heritage. Children are taught that
their parents are living under the power of darkness and
bondage, teaching disrespect to parents in direct
contradiction of the missionaries' own religious texts.
Such practices could not be gotten away with without
much criticism in the west, but people who enjoy the
freedoms of their individual traditions and beliefs in the
west do not believe in offering those same freedoms to
others if they can exploit them for the agendas of their
mission agencies.
We believe this has everything to do with endangered
language. If you ban the culture, what exactly is the
language then good for? A religious ban imposed on
culture is just as powerful as a governmental ban on
culture if not more so.
We find these repeated actions to eradicate Akha culture
from among the Akha people as going against standards
set forth in the UN Draft of Human Rights for
Indigenous Peoples.
Anyone who would like an entire copy of the UN Draft
on Indigenous Rights please send me an email.
There is a whole lot going wrong here.
Matthew McDaniel The Akha Heritage Foundation
=== END OF CITATION ===
Food for thought...
Kind regards,
Joris
--
Joris Goetschalckx
http://users.skynet.be/sky98829
Rumpelstilz
> ...Or is it to help build lodging, educate and provide
> food, clothing and medical care?
Dear Lom ron ...er Lom yen,
I have visited many hilltribes (no, I don't smoke weed or
opium) and althrough my knowledge on christianising this
people is far from complete I must say:
- as far as I can see
It was mostly the villagers who build lodging for the
missionaries (hilltribes are very capable of building their own
homes and have done so for far longer than Christianity exists)
- education done by missionaries is a bit reading and writing
(so this "poor heathens" will be able to read the bible)
- Provide food? Don't make me laugh - what do you think the
Hmong, Shan, Liu and others put in the line under "profession"?
It's FARMER you twit!!!
- Tell me how the selfwoven costumes (I hope still) worn by many
hilltribes are provided by missionaries?
- And lastly: Distributing a few coughdrops and aspirins is not
providing medical care!
D.B. wrote:
>I've heard of the lies and bribes you offer to win them over. You
>bastard missionary make me sick. Go home, nobody wants you in S.E.Asia.
>Fucked regards, D.B.
Yes, D. B. uses a bit strong language but he's rite!
It speaks only of ignorance and total disregard for a culture, total
lack of respect from this religious fanatics that come to Thailand
and try to plant their ideas into s.e. Asia's most disadvantaged people!
Rumpel
Jurgen Vogel
Rai. A neighbor of us had a broken apendice and was just about ready to
die.Well I said, no problems, I brought him to a mission where they had two
doctors. The first thing say said, even before examination, "does he have
any money to pay". I finished bundling him into an aircraft and flew him to
Bangkok where he was attended. So much for christian charity.
Rumpelstilz
I'm thinking of changing my itinerary from lazing on the beach in Hua Hin
to something more active and challenging like elkhunting in the mountains.
Where/how much is a fine hunting rifle in BKK? Anyone interested in joining
the party? Who knows knowledgeable hilltribe hunting guides?
> D.B. Cooper wrote:
> > There aren't enough Christians in all of Thailand to warrent a web
> > site such as this. Your true goal is to proselytize Thais into your
> > particular set of cult beliefs. Buddism is far superior to your religion
> > in every way so give your colonialist ways a rest, why don't you.
> > I've seen your fine new church buildings in the midsts of hilltribe
> > hovels and I've heard of the lies and bribes you offer to win them
> > over. You bastard missionary make me sick. Go home, nobody
> > wants you in S.E.Asia. Fucked regards, D.B.
Joris Goetschalckx wrote:
> Hi DB,
>
> I would have put it in more civilised words but in content I agree... This
> reminds me of a great post on the SEALANG mailing list from Matthew McDaniel
> of the Akha Heritage Foundation.
Hi Joris,
the report of Matt is appalling and far more serious of what I experienced first
hand while visiting hilltribes.
Philip Bolton
|reminds me of a great post on the SEALANG mailing list from Matthew
McDaniel
|of the Akha Heritage Foundation. I am sure he will not mind me reposting it
in
|this context.
|
|Kind regards,
|Joris
Let me start by saying I don't agree with the supposed actions of the
"Chinese Baptists."
I visited the Akha Heritage Foundation several years ago and was surprised
by the vehemence against "Christian" missionaries. They seem to forget that
without these missionaries they wouldn't be aware of the locations of most
of the hilltribe villages in Thailand. I was also surprised by the lengths
they would go to "protect" Akha culture. It seemed that nothing should be
interfered with. If a person was starving you shouldn't feed them. If
parents wanted to sell their daughter into prostitution in Bangkok, oh well,
part of the culture. A modern tool of any type was considered sacrilege.
The entire Akha tribe seemed to be their private ant collection. Even so,
they were strangely silent about Buddhist "missionaries" who were beginning
to teach their religion to the hilltribes.
Unfortunately, many people mistake Christianity for western culture. (Just
as many people in the west mistake Buddhism for eastern culture.) Thinking
that one needs to dress differently just because they have changed
religions. A religion is a personal experience. Happily it is one that can
be shared. Sadly many try to force both religion and culture instead of
sharing it.
Finally, many Christian missionaries are doing some wonderful work among the
hilltribes of Thailand. I know of a couple that would convince parents to
send their daughters to live in their "girls home" instead of selling them
into prostitution. They would teach them crafts, and skills that would make
them useful to their parents instead of a burden. At the same time they
would share their relationship with Jesus Christ with the girls. No
pressure, just love.
Just showing the other side of the coin.
Phil the Egg
David Webster
wrote:
>Something totally unrelated:
>I'm thinking of changing my itinerary from lazing on the beach in Hua Hin
>to something more active and challenging like elkhunting in the mountains.
>Where/how much is a fine hunting rifle in BKK? Anyone interested in joining
>the party? Who knows knowledgeable hilltribe hunting guides?
>
>> D.B. Cooper wrote:
>> > There aren't enough Christians in all of Thailand to warrent a web
>> > site such as this. Your true goal is to proselytize Thais into your
>> > particular set of cult beliefs. Buddism is far superior to your religion
>> > in every way so give your colonialist ways a rest, why don't you.
>> > I've seen your fine new church buildings in the midsts of hilltribe
>> > hovels and I've heard of the lies and bribes you offer to win them
>> > over. You bastard missionary make me sick. Go home, nobody
>> > wants you in S.E.Asia. Fucked regards, D.B.
>
>
>
>Joris Goetschalckx wrote:
>> Hi DB,
>>
>> I would have put it in more civilised words but in content I agree... This
>> reminds me of a great post on the SEALANG mailing list from Matthew McDaniel
>> of the Akha Heritage Foundation.
Nah, I've met Matthew. Very fair minded and balanced
opinions.
Lom yen
Wasant , I agree about Dr.Bradely and I was not trying to flame or support any
religion. All are made up of people and will refleck those humans worst and
best in the presentation. I have seen first hand the results of "christians"
rape of island cultures and the beauty of others work representing the same
God.
And Rump...... er.. Rumpel, I wasn't stating what these churches do or don't
do but rather that what did he do to help or preserve these peoples or their
culture.
"all you fucking people go home"
If you don't feel as he does "get the "F" out of here". Glad he's not my
neighbor! That's not budism tolorance is it? He seems to be letting his neg.
experiences, predjudises and anger cloud his reasoning. Relax guys, lose the
anger and discuss. I am not conviced about the works of churches in mission
fields either!
But I do support any Thai... read!..........Thai christian that chooses to
share their belief.
What ya think?
Johpa
>There aren't enough Christians in all of Thailand to warrent a web site
>such as this.
The per centage numbers in Thailand may be small, but the per centage numbers
in the US are quite large as many Thais are either happy to drop their Buddhist
beliefs upon arrival or are easily persuaded by the hard prosetylizing efforts
of the Christian Thais in the US (e.g. the Hope of Bangkok Church).
As for the Christian missionaries in the hills, it is a complicated scenario.
There are alot of really bad ones, especially the younger American ones, a a
few very good ones, mostly older Catholic guys who have been around along time
and have a certain respect for local conditions. It was not the missionaries
that have destroyed traditional Akha culture, but the constant wars in Burma
and the outcast nature of their existence in Thailand. The Karen willingly
accepted Christianity in mass during the previous century believing the lies
that the Brtits told them about supporting them. Of course today Burmese
students can get refugee status but not Karen since most major governments
still refuse to recognize indigenous minorities anywhere.
Many hill people have converted. There are good and bad Christian missionaries
in the hills. The root causes for the people to abandon their indigenous faith
are complex. The missionaries take advantage of these factors to fulfill their
own personal needs and insecurities. Sometimes they actually care about the
other people as opposed to simply counting the number of "souls" they imagine
they are saving. Unfortunately, all too often, these people have no clue about
Christian charity nor understanding of "grace". And the Thai Christians in the
US rarely have any understanding of their religion at all apart from their
ability to tell others that they "amen".
Happy Trails
Johpa
Philip Bolton
Philip Bolton wrote in message <6o70ld$r54$1...@news0-alterdial.uu.net>...
|I visited the Akha Heritage Foundation several years ago
Sorry, going back through my notes I noticed it was not the Akha Heritage
Foundation I visited. It was the Hilltribes Research Institute (I'm not
sure of its exact name) on the campus of Chiang Mai University. My
apologies to the Akha Heritage Foundation. However, my post still stands.
Both good and bad things are happening to the hilltribes. But they are
people, free to make their choice.
Phil the Egg
Rumpelstilz
> Let me start by saying I don't agree with the supposed actions of the
> "Chinese Baptists."
It's not "supposed actions" - we got witnesses! Hard facts buddy!
> I visited the Akha Heritage Foundation several years ago and was surprised
> by the vehemence against "Christian" missionaries.
Ever had jesus-nuts sundaymornin 8am on your door? THEY DON'T TAKE NO FOR AN
ANSWER!!! Vehemence is a necessity against all x-tian peddling!
> They seem to forget that without these missionaries they wouldn't
> be aware of the locations of most of the hilltribe villages in Thailand.
Why do we have to know all locations? They lived in peace for millenniums
before outside interference put them on a downhill spiral!
> I was also surprised by the lengths
> they would go to "protect" Akha culture. It seemed that nothing should be
> interfered with. If a person was starving you shouldn't feed them.
They wouldn't starve if the government in BKK (the one that issues missionary
visas) would recognize their right to live and their right to be cultural
different from mainstream thai
> If parents wanted to sell their daughter into prostitution in Bangkok,
> oh well, part of the culture.
That's low and uncalled for Philip, you are slandering Akha culture
and I hope you apologize for it!
> A modern tool of any type was considered sacrilege.
Sadly Akha will not escape "modern times" forever,
but there is light at the end of the tunnel - Bangkok finely
(to late to little)? Starts recognising the differing and value
of their brothers in the hills. Central government departs from
thinking that all hilltribes have only one wish - to melt into
mainstream Thai culture and living.
(I don't have much up to date info on this matter and would
appreciate if a SCT-reader could fill me in)
- Just an idea of mine: Could it be that the central government
used the missionaries to destroy the hilltribe culture so they
would be easier assimilated into mainstream?
> The entire Akha tribe seemed to be their private ant collection.
> Even so, they were strangely silent about Buddhist "missionaries"
> who were beginning to teach their religion to the hilltribes.
I believe you mistake Thai government interference as "Buddhist missionaries"
Buddhists don't push their believes on other people! They (Thai Buddhist monastery's)
do some charity, they have religious schools and yes - many rural Thais give better food
as alms to the temple then they eat themselves...
Sadly, every institutionalization of a philosophy gets corrupted.
And anyway: I would take Buddhism over christianity any time !!!
> Unfortunately, many people mistake Christianity for western culture. (Just
> as many people in the west mistake Buddhism for eastern culture.) Thinking
> that one needs to dress differently just because they have changed
> religions. A religion is a personal experience. Happily it is one that can
> be shared. Sadly many try to force both religion and culture instead of
> sharing it.
Again - it is christian fanatics who are so ignorant and blind that they need
to see the whole world to be just like them and can't tolerate anything
different.
When you deny that missionary's go to Thailand and take advantage of
disenfranchised and mostly illiterate people you commit the sin of lying
big time buddy!
> Finally, many Christian missionaries are doing some wonderful work among the
> hilltribes of Thailand.
Please bring evidence! Videofootage of "before" and "after," dated, with
signed Affidavits!
> I know of a couple that would convince parents to
> send their daughters to live in their "girls home" instead of selling them
> into prostitution. They would teach them crafts, and skills that would make
> them useful to their parents instead of a burden. At the same time they
> would share their relationship with Jesus Christ with the girls. No
> pressure, just love.
...They would persuade parents to give them custody of their daughters
(what about their sons) and under the cover of "teaching them crafts"
slowly and stickum would inject them with x-tianity
to alienate them from their real, good and valid heritage.
> Just showing the other side of the coin.
> Phil the Egg!
Think again Phil - better: THINK!!!
Rumpelstilz
> Nah, I've met Matthew. Very fair minded and balanced opinions.
what I meant: I knew this jesus-freaks are bad and I've seen some
up in the hills - I just didn't know they're that bad.
Rumpel
Rumpelstilz
> And Rump...... er.. Rumpel, I wasn't stating what these churches do or don't
> do but rather that what did he do to help or preserve these peoples or their
> culture.
> "all you fucking people go home"
> If you don't feel as he does "get the "F" out of here". Glad he's not my
> neighbor! That's not budism tolorance is it? He seems to be letting his neg.
> experiences, predjudises and anger cloud his reasoning.
You falsely make it look like I used the "F" word - please don't put something
in my mouth Lom yen `k?
Rumpel
D.B. Cooper
nucklehead! Oh, and next time you quote someone at least
make an attempt to be accurate. Christians aren't bastards, Christian
missionaries are bastards. With the exception of the Catholic orgs who
are more civilized in their methods, most of the others are there only
to "collect heads"ie. each soul "saved" is another feather in their
caps. If I were to draw you a map showing the location of all the
churches encircling Chiang Mai's mote area, you would think you were
looking at an armed camp. Even the bloody Jehovas Witnesses are there!
And dont they have a far superior philosophy to offer over that embodied
in Buddism? Ha! Common sense dictates that asian governments ban the
activities of these fools. Many countries already have laws against
proselytizing (India, Pak. Nepal) but they are seldom enforced. I say if
they do the crime make them do the time. The time is long past due when
Thailand enacts such a law. Then, if I may be allowed to indulge a
choice fantasy for a moment, Pat Robertson could be lured in to do his
thing, at which time he would have the iron bracelets slapped on his
wrists and be thrown into a Thai slammer. ROLF!!!
Tom Neill
collision with the ground that caused severe brain damage and mental
disorder. Far from what has been said by some in this thread, the original
poster merely ANNOUNCED the existence of a website; did not encourage,
order, or knock on someone's door at 8 a.m. on a Sunday morning.
The post was entirely "on-topic" for this ng--something often lacking In
fact, I've book-marked it (along with many other Thai websites).
D.B. Cooper
Come Monday morning I will once again be chuckling merrily on my way to
the bank to count my money. You say you bookmarked that website? When
did your parachute fail to open? A brain is a terrible thing to waste!
Be more careful next time, will you please. Hint: Try landing on your
head instead of posterior next time. In your case it will no doubt
result in less brain damage. Best wishes, D.B. Cooper
Tom Neill
poster's right to post an advisement.
Tom Neill
people or one person using several names/servers. I've been visiting here
for quite some time, and this is the first posting that I can recall bashing
another person's religion.
BTW, the actions of a few do not necessarily reflect upon the attitudes of
millions world-wide. There are probably 100's of so-called "Christian"
minisitries, just as there are more than a few "buddist" off-shoots.
D.B. Cooper
persons religion." What makes you think the Christians would
bother with our funky little ng? They have am, fm, shortwave, television
and even global satelite access by which to spread their vitriol toward
the other religions. Indeed they have the time, money and inclination to
do just that, as even the most casual observer has no doubt observed on
countless occasions. I'm simpy striving in my own small way for balance;
equal time if you will! As the good book says: "Bash unto others as they
bash unto you." Or as the locals say, "What comes around goes around."
Sincerely, your brother in Christ, Budda, Allah, Shiva and Zoroaster.
D.B. Cooper
reservations concerning well money'd western crusaders decending on Asia
to convert the heathens at all costs? Don't you know these
fundamentalist/evengelical preachers and their "world outreach"
organizations portray Buddism as a demon worshiping cult? Their stated
goal is nothing less than the total extinction of all other faiths and
the subplantation of their own brand of christianity. Before you laugh
take a look at the size and scope of their operations and the amount of
damage already done. Mark my words well, it is dangerous to
underestimate these zealots.
Joris Goetschalckx
>- Just an idea of mine: Could it be that the central government
>used the missionaries to destroy the hilltribe culture so they
>would be easier assimilated into mainstream?
Now this is a very interesting idea! But would the Thai authorities really be
so Machiavellian? That would be sick...
In my country when you really hate somebody you wish him cholera, tuberculosis
or another very disgusting illness. Viewed in this light, I admit that it does
make sense to allow christian missionaries to be sent to a people on which you
want to inflict a deadly scourge :-(
Joris Goetschalckx
> I know of a charity that does the same thing but with whole villages.
> They don't find it necessary to be religious in order to do good work.
Right. Helping people only if they first espouse your silly religion and
associated values is not something to be proud of.
> I suspect that if Buddhist missionaries (if there were such a thing)
> visited the poor in South America and attempted to convert Catholics
> to Buddhism there would be uproaor.
> Why do Christians think it's ok as long as they are doing the
> converting?
I don't like that either, but I have to admit that it is a logical consequence
of the very nature of their religion. Christianity, like all other
monotheistic religions, lays a claim on *the truth*, embodied in the one and
only god and its associated dogma. Now if you really believe that your god is
the only real one, then it is only logical that any other religion's god is an
impostor and hence the preaching of its dogma not to be allowed. An example of
limited and simplistic thinking, sure, but hey, we are talking *religion*,
aren't we?
Joris Goetschalckx
> Christians aren't bastards, Christian
> missionaries are bastards.
It is indeed important to make this distinction. Christian believers are at
worst mistaken. Misguided by tradition and by the limitations of human
existential comprehension. But the missionaries are more than misguided. They
are evil. If you are so dumb as to need a god to be a good human being, so be
it. But don't force others into believing in your god and perform the same
silly rituals as you do. And certainly not if you use economic and/or military
power to do so.
> Many countries already have laws against
> proselytizing (India, Pak. Nepal) but they are seldom enforced. I say if
> they do the crime make them do the time. The time is long past due when
> Thailand enacts such a law.
This is an attractive idea indeed. On the other hand, this would mean using
the same methods as the enemy. Censure is censure is censure -- and is wrong.
Always. Period. No, there must be other ways. In an completely different
context I once said that Thailand needs three things: education, education and
education. (context was: solving economic problems). I still have good hope
that the human race can be saved from the scourge of religion by the same
trinity, if you'll allow me the use of this word ;-)
Rumpelstilz
> the original poster merely ANNOUNCED the existence of a website;
`K fair `nuff
...and we regulars in this NG post our discomfort here,
with missionaries who proselytize a nonsense believe system
that has been around for to long, has done enough harm already
and does not have to be spread!
Rumpel
rinpoche
> ...and we regulars in this NG post our discomfort here,
> with missionaries who proselytize a nonsense believe system
> that has been around for to long, has done enough harm already
> and does not have to be spread!
> Rumpel
You value your own freedom. But what about others' freedom? If you
feel uncomfortable about someone announcing a website here, how
comfortable do you think people feel when they read some of your
misinformation?
Thailand has laws which protect all religions. There are Thai Hindus and
Muslims too. Live and let live.
David Webster
Cooper) wrote:
>Hey Lom, Ive got news for you. I AM your neighbor. Get out of town you
>nucklehead! Oh, and next time you quote someone at least
>make an attempt to be accurate. Christians aren't bastards, Christian
>missionaries are bastards. With the exception of the Catholic orgs who
>are more civilized in their methods, most of the others are there only
>to "collect heads"ie. each soul "saved" is another feather in their
>caps. If I were to draw you a map showing the location of all the
>churches encircling Chiang Mai's mote area, you would think you were
>looking at an armed camp. Even the bloody Jehovas Witnesses are there!
>And dont they have a far superior philosophy to offer over that embodied
>in Buddism? Ha! Common sense dictates that asian governments ban the
>activities of these fools. Many countries already have laws against
>proselytizing (India, Pak. Nepal) but they are seldom enforced. I say if
>they do the crime make them do the time. The time is long past due when
>Thailand enacts such a law. Then, if I may be allowed to indulge a
>choice fantasy for a moment, Pat Robertson could be lured in to do his
>thing, at which time he would have the iron bracelets slapped on his
>wrists and be thrown into a Thai slammer. ROLF!!!
Kinda dangerous thinking, D.B. I'm no more a fan of zealots
than most of the posters in this thread. But when folks start getting
tossed in the klink for stating their religious beliefs, lots of bad
things are sure to follow; and I'm leaving wherever the hell ever it
is.
>
Philip Bolton
Rumpelstilz wrote in message <35A7B2...@bellsouth.net>...
|Ever had jesus-nuts sundaymornin 8am on your door? THEY DON'T TAKE NO FOR
AN
|ANSWER!!! Vehemence is a necessity against all x-tian peddling!
|before outside interference put them on a downhill spiral!
missionary
|visas) would recognize their right to live and their right to be cultural
|different from mainstream thai
|> If parents wanted to sell their daughter into prostitution in Bangkok,
|> oh well, part of the culture.
|That's low and uncalled for Philip, you are slandering Akha culture
|and I hope you apologize for it!
Watch it when you cut up a person's post. I said:
"I visited the Akha Heritage Foundation (Hilltribe Research Institute)
several years ago and was surprised
by the vehemence against "Christian" missionaries. They seem to forget that
without these missionaries they wouldn't be aware of the locations of most
of the hilltribe villages in Thailand. I was also surprised by the lengths
they would go to "protect" Akha culture. It seemed that nothing should be
interfered with. If a person was starving you shouldn't feed them. If
parents wanted to sell their daughter into prostitution in Bangkok, oh well,
part of the culture. A modern tool of any type was considered sacrilege.
The entire Akha tribe seemed to be their private ant collection. Even so,
they were strangely silent about Buddhist "missionaries" who were beginning
to teach their religion to the hilltribes."
If you read the entire paragraph you see that I was saying that it was the
attitude of the researchers that sanctioned prostitution, not that I thought
it was a part of the culture.
Akha culture puts a high value on filial responsibility. The children are
expected to contribute to the family. (this is a good thing) In a farming
culture many children are desirable to help the parents in their old age.
Unfortunately, while a son is always considered as an asset, daughters can
be seen as a liability. If the crops are bad one year or some other problem
occurs, BAD guys exploit this and offer to buy the daughters for a price
that the average Akha would consider extravagant. Years later, the
daughters return home, used, abused, usually with some type of STD,
sometimes shunned by the family (though not always). This puts a tremendous
strain on traditional Akha culture. (this is a BAD thing) The missionaries
that I met, shared a personal belief, not as a precondition to help, just
along side it.
|Again - it is christian fanatics who are so ignorant and blind that they
need
|to see the whole world to be just like them and can't tolerate anything
|different.
|When you deny that missionary's go to Thailand and take advantage of
|disenfranchised and mostly illiterate people you commit the sin of lying
|big time buddy!
|Please bring evidence! Videofootage of "before" and "after," dated, with
|signed Affidavits!
|...They would persuade parents to give them custody of their daughters
|(what about their sons) and under the cover of "teaching them crafts"
|slowly and stickum would inject them with x-tianity
|to alienate them from their real, good and valid heritage.
|Think again Phil - better: THINK!!!
Alright, I agree to think. I think that you wouldn't look at the evidence
if I brought it. I think that you see everyone as belonging to some kind of
group, ie. christian, buddhist, Akha, Thai, etc. I think that you then
label that group and everyone in it based on your limited encounters with
someone in that group. I think you are unable to see people as
individuals. I think that a world without groups of individuals, making
decisions, good and bad, scares you. I think you would, if given the
opportunity, deprive people of their rights to make those decisions. Thats
what I think.
Phil the Egg
D.B. Cooper
your statement I would advise you to reconsider your next trip to
Thailand. If for example, your religious persuasion led you to the
opinion that veiwing the King as God man or God King was false and
heretical, and you then began to proclaim this truth of yours in public,
you could very well find yourself in a Thai prison. Thailand IS such a
country so in light of your statement I assume you will have to
reconsider going there. Personally I applaud the Thai practice of
defending their traditioal beliefs with stringent laws. They have now
only to close some loopholes, preventing missionaries from preaching to
anyone other than the current Christian community. A law restricting
proselytizing for the purpose of conversion is all I'm asking for. If
some foreign agent then proceded to knowingly break the law, whats wrong
with them being prosecuted to the full extent of said law? -Cooper
D.B. Cooper
should reach for the strawberry. Even that would be an improvement. At
least its memorable.
David Webster
Cooper) wrote:
>I appreciate your sentiments on the matter Dave. However considering
>your statement I would advise you to reconsider your next trip to
>Thailand.
Kinda hard to do, D.B. BTW, how much time have you spent
"there"?
If for example, your religious persuasion led you to the
>opinion that veiwing the King as God man or God King was false and
>heretical, and you then began to proclaim this truth of yours in public,
>you could very well find yourself in a Thai prison.
I can only shake my head and mutter a bit. But pray tell what
religion instructs it adherents to commit Lese Majeste?
Thailand IS such a
>country so in light of your statement I assume you will have to
>reconsider going there.
And I would think you might be more careful in making the same
foolish statement twice. But please tell us more of your Thai
experiences.
Personally I applaud the Thai practice of
>defending their traditioal beliefs with stringent laws.
Could you perhaps give several examples of this, sparing us
the already lectured upon Lese Majeste laws?
They have now
>only to close some loopholes, preventing missionaries from preaching to
>anyone other than the current Christian community.
First I doubt that the Thais consider their free access to
religion to be loopholes. And even furthur doubt they would even for
a moment consider such a dangerous curtailment of human rights.
A law restricting
>proselytizing for the purpose of conversion is all I'm asking for.
Who the f**k are *you* to ask for such an inane law, or any
law, for that matter?
If
>some foreign agent then proceded to knowingly break the law, whats wrong
>with them being prosecuted to the full extent of said law? -Cooper
Omigod...foreign agents now.......?<can someone quickly play
the theme tune for Twilight Zone?>
>
Johpa
>Don't you know these
>fundamentalist/evengelical preachers and their "world outreach"
>organizations portray Buddism as a demon worshiping cult?
DB is not far off the market on some of the more fundamentalist preachers one
can find in the hills. Several years ago my family was eating at the "Stube"
in Chiang Mai alongside a American missionary couple and their children. We
began chatting a bit and their young son came over and saw the strings on our
wrists from a recent ceremony and said with eyes wide open: "Do you know what
those mean?" It appears that his parents had told him the they were signs of
the devil.
Johpa
Buzsinger
being to his way of thinking or beliefs. You would think that it is enough of
a task for one life, to lead the best life possible without worrying about what
others believe or don't believe. If that life is a good one, others will be
attracted to it and you don't have to go around trying to convince others how
superior your way of thinking is. Of course I know this is not the way the
world works, but I wish that it did.
Buzz
Scottsdale, AZ
was...@hotmail.com
> - Just an idea of mine: Could it be that the central government
> used the missionaries to destroy the hilltribe culture so they
> would be easier assimilated into mainstream?
Yours idea is far-fetched. If the govt really wants to integrate them into
mainstream, they should support Buddhist monks by asking them to go native
and establish monasteries, but they don't. Do you think the Thai govt is in
support of Christianity than Buddhism? If you think so, you are sadly
mistaken.
wasant
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum
Tom Neill
open?
D.B. Cooper
and Dave Webster supposed to be down at the revival tent? Remember to
pass the hat after the bogus healings are performed. Pay particular
attention to the "Reverends" timing, pacing, and delivery. These three
things are all important in the world of showbiz! Eventually you can
take what you learn and hold your own revival somewhere in the
developing world. Make no mistake about it, there's a mint to be make
off the poor and uneducated in the third world. Just ask any of the
globe-trotting evangelists; Its a numbers game! 10.000 donations of $5
grosses more than $20 donations from 1.000 of the gullible...er..I mean
faithful! And if your act is up to snuff there should be no problem
wrestling an average of $5 from the hands of the worlds poor. Oh, and
David. Just keep shaking your head and muttering, it becomes you!
Rumpelstilz
>
> Rumpelstilz wrote:
> >- Just an idea of mine: Could it be that the central government
> >used the missionaries to destroy the hilltribe culture so they
> >would be easier assimilated into mainstream?
>
> so Machiavellian? That would be sick...
> Joris
Everybody who tried to live in Thailand for longer than 3 month:
Remember how difficult it is to get the visa without that darn pilgrimage
to Penang? The missionaries get (if i'm not wrong) a one year visa.
Easy to renew without leaving. How is that?
At least in the past the central government tried to sell the idea
that all hilltribes wanted to become good Thais, some time later
they acknowledged the cultural identity of the minorities (coz
their dancing is so cute and can be shown to tourists)
Rumpel
Rumpelstilz
but it almost never is.
The organized religions are about power, money and how to keep
their followers ignorant, in order to keep them believing (and paying).
Specially the catholic church is and was the whore of whatever
government is in place. Just look up the word "concordat"
the pope in Rome made a deal even with the Hitler regime.
I like to see myself as a tolerant guy - but religion just goes over
my limit. Let these freaks go to south America, Europe and US and
proteolyse*, the people there are either x-tians already or know how to
just say no ;-) . But the destruction of cultures on the pacific Islands
and in S. E. Asia is intolerable!
Christianity, Islam and many other believesystems belong on the
garbage-heap of history, they are intolerant, spread lies and prejudice
- in short - they're in the way of brotherhood of man
Rumpel
ps: And they shot John Lennon
*on 2. thought: don't let`em go anywhere and be a nuisance
Nigel Evans
<bo...@bellsouth.net> writes
>Christianity, Islam and many other believesystems belong on the
>garbage-heap of history, they are intolerant, spread lies and prejudice
You seem to be ignoring the fact that many people believe
profoundly in their religions. How many times have you seen a girl,
working in a bar, light three incense sticks and offer them ? I have
always found it deeply moving. My own experience has made me bitter and
I cannot believe in any God. I could be wrong. I certainly do not wish
to deride others who have their own beliefs. I can remember sitting in
one of the most "wicked" bars in Pattaya and talking to the young
cashier. She worked twelve hours every day. She had two days off work
every month. She told me that she had been to the Wat on Vishaka Puja to
pray that her husband should come soon. She shrugged her shoulders and
said " If not this life, perhaps the next ? "
An individual's beliefs are sacred. I am much too
insignificant to alter them.
--
Nigel Evans
Tom Neill
ocean just so that they could draw attention to "el nino". (They must have
some communication with "someone".)
Tom Neill
stated in this thread; That is, you are condemning the beliefs of millions
of people on the basis of what you consider a money grab by scam artists.
True, there are probably tons of "Jimmies" and "Tammies" out there. And
there are a lot of suckers who think they can pay their way into heaven.
But such condemnation (a broad attack) IMHO is the same as portraying all
owners of certain types of cars as being________; all members of a service
organization as ___________; all members of a nationality as ______________;
all members of a particular race as ______________. There are good and bad
representatives of all groups--even groups of atheists.
HEP...@webtv.net
the point is your trying to get across. Could you clairify a bit?
Regards, Hepcat
http://www.wunderground.com/global/KH.html
Tom Neill
after the Spanish conquistadores arrived). It was a term used to describe
the unusually warm waters that caused certain marine species to be found in
the coastal waters that were not ordinarily present. The Peruvians named
this warming "El Nino" for "the Christ child". Don't ask me why. "Nino"
means young boy in Spanish, but apparently the "el nino effect" was
considered a "wonderous" event and attributed to "the son of God".
HEP...@webtv.net
existent el nino? If "they" (christians?) prayed for the ocean to warm,
then el nino wasn't active yet, right? So what are they trying to draw
attention to? I don't get it. Regards, Hepcat
http://www.wunderground.com/global/KH.html
http://www.wunderground.com/global/TH.html
Tom Neill
Joris Goetschalckx
>Rumpelstilz wrote:
>>Christianity, Islam and many other believesystems belong on the
>>garbage-heap of history, they are intolerant, spread lies and prejudice
>My own experience has made me bitter and I cannot believe in any God
>[but] I certainly do not wish to deride others who have their own beliefs.
Hi Nigel,
I must admit that although I agree more with Rumple on this issue, I admire
your "jai yen" stance. I thought that being jai yen was one of my (rare)
virtues, but it is clear that religion is one of those issues that still
manages to get me in fit of rage. Maybe you are right for showing respect to
other people's beliefs, and I should try to learn from you. But then again,
have Christianity and Islam, to name but the worst offenders, ever respected
other people? Medoesnothinkso... :-(
Kind regards,
Joris (666)
David Webster
Cooper) wrote:
>Very funny Tom! But what are you doing posting on a Sunday? Aren't you
>and Dave Webster supposed to be down at the revival tent?
Is this your way to avoid answering questions about the
reckless comments you made? Where in my post did encourage christian
teaching to the hilltribes?
Why not just answer my questions? Or perhaps your answers
would be too revealing?
Oh, and
>David. Just keep shaking your head and muttering, it becomes you!
>
Better to mutter and shake one's head than to rant and rave, I
believe.
Rumpelstilz
> Watch it when you cut up a person's post. I said:
>
> "I visited the Akha Heritage Foundation (Hilltribe Research Institute)
> several years ago and was surprised
> by the vehemence against "Christian" missionaries. They seem to forget that
> without these missionaries they wouldn't be aware of the locations of most
> of the hilltribe villages in Thailand. I was also surprised by the lengths
> they would go to "protect" Akha culture. It seemed that nothing should be
> interfered with. If a person was starving you shouldn't feed them. If
> parents wanted to sell their daughter into prostitution in Bangkok, oh well,
> part of the culture. A modern tool of any type was considered sacrilege.
> The entire Akha tribe seemed to be their private ant collection. Even so,
> they were strangely silent about Buddhist "missionaries" who were beginning
> to teach their religion to the hilltribes."
> If you read the entire paragraph you see that I was saying that it was the
> attitude of the researchers that sanctioned prostitution, not that I thought
> it was a part of the culture.
It still looks that way to me: You give the impression that if it weren't
for this wonderful altruistic missionaries they (Akha) would constantly
sell their daughters willingly ....
and you split hairs by trying to relativate your earlier post.
> I think that you wouldn't look at the evidence
> if I brought it.
you have a point there - I am prejudiced against non-atheists.
> I think that you see everyone as belonging to some kind of
> group, ie. christian, buddhist, Akha, Thai, etc. I think that you then
> label that group and everyone in it based on your limited encounters with
> someone in that group.
And I always thought it's a prerequisite for being a good x-tian
to leave your critical mind and individuality behind.
I think that followers of a cult like yours are more likely to
label ppl
And as of my "limited encounters": in almost halve a century of
talking to x-tians I have found some difference, from idealistic
to machiavalian - but they all had something in common - they
all denied (some more some less) scientific facts and defended
century old nonsense.
> I think you are unable to see people as
> individuals. I think that a world without groups of individuals, making
> decisions, good and bad, scares you.
I don't follow you here - show me where I left that impression.
> I think you would, if given the
> opportunity, deprive people of their rights to make those decisions. Thats
> what I think.
If I would rewrite that old paper I would change "freedom of religion"
to "freedom from religion" - else I am a champion of ppl's rights.
Rumpel
Rumpelstilz
>
> > - Just an idea of mine: Could it be that the central government
> > used the missionaries to destroy the hilltribe culture so they
> > would be easier assimilated into mainstream?
>
> mainstream, they should support Buddhist monks by asking them to go native
> and establish monasteries, but they don't. Do you think the Thai govt is in
> support of Christianity than Buddhism? If you think so, you are sadly
> mistaken.
>
> wasant
Dear wasant:
Of course I am aware that the Thai gov favors Buddhism over x-tianity,
the more it would make sense to let the latter do the destroying (of culture)
so afterward the "good guys" can move in and "make everything good again".
Rumpel
Rumpelstilz
> ... you are condemning the beliefs of millions
> of people on the basis of what you consider a money grab by scam artists.
That the majority of ppl believes in some kind of "higher being/power"
does not make it any more truthful
and you Sir are a ___________;
kindly
Rumpel
Philip Bolton
Tom Neill wrote in message <6oc52d$542i$1...@newssvr04-int.news.prodigy.com>...
It was named El Nino because the beginning of the effect coincided with the
christmas season. The weather arrived, so did the Christ child, voila. It
was not considered wonderous.
Phil the Egg
Tom Neill
complimentary.
Tom Neill
Johpa
> Yours idea is far-fetched. If the govt really wants to integrate them into
>mainstream, they should support Buddhist monks by asking them to go native
>and establish monasteries, but they don't.
Actually, there is/was (?) a program doing that in the hills and one can find
some Bhuddist villages. If you are intertested I believe Prof. Keyes wrote a
few academic articles regarding the program and he has also written articles
about ethnic change in Thailand which would include religious changes.
Johpa
Lom yen
I was not trying to make it look like I was quoting you. Forgive?
Rumpelstilz
as a black man in Alabama gettin bullied by white cops
into signing a confession.
Philip Bolton wrote:
> Both good and bad things are happening to the hilltribes. But they are
> people, free to make their choice.
>
> Phil the Egg
D.B. Cooper
incoherent in their postings? Maybe they just need a break from all the
various ng's they frequent. You know guys, you could waste your life
away on the usenet! Why not try going to the beach for a change; check
out the babes, chase some skirts, pull back on a brew or two. Perhaps
you both could spend the day together, even share a "Chiquita on a
Stick". Have a great time guys and remember Lifes a beach!
D.B. Cooper
missionaries are rich and the tribals are poor. If they want anything
the mission churches are offering, they have to "play ball". Anyone who
thinks this is an issue of personal liberties and freedom of choice is
patheticaly off the mark. The western zeolots should not be allowed to
ram their propaganda down unsophisticated peoples throats. If at some
stage the tribal elders determine the old beliefs are no longer working
for them they can go out and solicit proposals from representatives of
the various religions and sects. It should be their choice. What right
do the missionaries have to impose themselves and their belief systems
on these comunities?
Tom Neill
Funny how I was thinking the same about you and Rumple. While your
"analysis", IMHO, is flawed, your recreational suggestions are well taken.
Maybe someday all four of us can gather for some "brewkies". But I get
insanely jealous about sharing my "chiquitas".
Tom
VulcanAuto
>with missionaries who proselytize a nonsense believe system
>that has been around for to long, has done enough harm already
>and does not have to be spread!
>Rumpel
Just how long have you been a regular here Imba? What names were you posting
as before?
VulcanAuto
>government is in place. Just look up the word "concordat"
>the pope in Rome made a deal even with the Hitler regime.
>
>
Imba Imba Imba did you not use words similar to these just two months ago on
alt. religion atheist?>roteolyse*, the people there are either x-tians already
or know how to
>just say no ;-) . But the
go easy on the coke and booze Imba, you are blowing your cover.
D.B. Cooper
Pataya another chance. I didn't care for it at all the first time. Maybe
I'll even stay at Marks. We can make that our rendezous. Later, D.B.
D.B. Cooper
But this would mean that when Rumple wrote in praise of a post by Imba,
he was really congratulating himself. Only a TOTAL JERK would do such a
thing! Please, say it ain't so Imba.. er..Rumple!
Tom Neill
squirrel, Roy, Pscott, et. al.)
You know, to come to think of it, very little has been reported about the
SCT meeting. Any chance that the dozen or so who might have attended
actually turned out to be only two bodies?
Maybe one of the "regulars" should start a new thread on that. (This one is
getting a little "thread worn".) Rumple? Johpa? Whadaya think?
D.B. Cooper
mostly Imba carrying on a conversation with himself.
Imba/Rumple/dbrenn/Pscott, a singular waste of space! And bandwidth.
Johpa
>They (the hilltribes) are about as free in their choice
>as a black man in Alabama gettin bullied by white cops
>into signing a confession.
They do have freedom in religious choice. But like many rural citizens in
Thailand they have limited choices as far as education (if any) or economic
opportunity (if any) and some are not even granted citizenship even though they
are born on Thai soil. In addition, hill people face significant
discrimination by many Thais, especially people in Bangkok who have virtually
no interaction with hill people and who are usually totally ignorant about
hilltribe culture (not willing to recognize that there exist Tai hill groups
from which the Thais sprang forth) and believe some of the most outrageous
stereotypes bestowed upon minority peoples the world around.
Even hill people who successfully integrate into Thai culture can be shocked by
the abrupt negativity that some will display when they learn a person is from
one of the minority groups. And hill people, if they wish to advance in the
Thai bureaucracy must change their family names to a Thai name or face very
limited advancement possibilities.
Happy Trails
Johpa
Johpa
>Has everyone noticed how Dweeb and Tom are becoming increasingly
>incoherent in their postings?
Uh newbies, it is rather normal in these threads for coherency to decrease in
geometric proportion to the time elapsed from the original posting.
Johpa
Tchiowa
Philip Bolton
Tom Neill wrote in message <6ochnd$3aps$1...@newssvr04-int.news.prodigy.com>...
|You're right.
As always|
David Webster
Neither, of course, would D,B./ApocolypseNow/Hepcat?
>
David Webster
Cooper) wrote:
>Has everyone noticed how Dweeb and Tom are becoming increasingly
>incoherent in their postings? Maybe they just need a break from all the
>various ng's they frequent.
What an all-knowing visionary. First you want to set up the
human rights standards for Thailand, then tell an entire cultural
group of human beings what they can and cannot be exposed to. I feel
so humbled that you take your precious time to tell me how to live my
life. Now where have I heard that kind of "fatherly guidance" before?
You know guys, you could waste your life
>away on the usenet! Why not try going to the beach for a change; check
>out the babes, chase some skirts, pull back on a brew or two. Perhaps
>you both could spend the day together, even share a "Chiquita on a
>Stick". Have a great time guys and remember Lifes a beach!
Don't have time, D.B. sitting here figuring out if I should
do as you suggested and "not go to Thailand" takes every moment of my
free time.
Oh, and BTW. If you had been around for awhile, you might
have known that when you set up a new newsgroup, you troll a lot of
other newsgroups with notices, etc.
>
David Webster
>>DBCoopr in Message-id: <18384-35...@newsd-121.bryant.webtv.net>
>
>>Has everyone noticed how Dweeb and Tom are becoming increasingly
>>incoherent in their postings?
>
>Uh newbies, it is rather normal in these threads for coherency to decrease in
>geometric proportion to the time elapsed from the original posting.
And "incoherence" is normally cited in direct proportion to
the difficulty of supporting one's initial thesis.
>
>Johpa
imba
<199807132342...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
On the contrary, my dear, I need another white line to clear my head...
_________________ <snort>
Oops !
Now...Let's see, I never posted to alt.religion.atheist, my little Phoenix,
only to alt.atheism. If you've ever visited that ng, then you will see
standards are quite different over there. Slash and burn, plunder and
pillage, not for the weak-hearted really... a mirror image of the dark
middle ages. Many posts on that ng reflect my attitude towards xtianity and
islam. But, as we all know, this is SCT, therefore I have refrained from
any comments on this thread, I know all too well some of our Thai friends
on SCT would feel uneasy about that much jai-roon feelings. I don't know
how much longer I will be able to contain the Beast. But I try, this ng
doesn't deserve a war over religion.
Rumple...euh, sorry, not Rumple but Imba (or am I Rumple ?)
With kind regards,
Imba
imba
D.B. Cooper <DBC...@webtv.net> schreef in artikel
<18477-35...@newsd-123.bryant.webtv.net>...
> Vulcan, Are you serious? Rumple and Imba are one and the same person?
> But this would mean that when Rumple wrote in praise of a post by Imba,
> he was really congratulating himself. Only a TOTAL JERK would do such a
> thing! Please, say it ain't so Imba.. er..Rumple!
>
Hi ,
it's <checking his ID card> Imba here. This ng gets funnier all the time...
Me and Rumple the same one ? I do agree that Rumple's view on x-tianity
<Imba spits on the floor while typing that cursed word> and mine are very
similar.
I know you wouldn't appreciate someone congratulating himself, I can relate
to that.
Don't worry, D.B., soon enough, it will become clear I am not Rumple. It's
not difficult to prove, and already someone knows that if I would be
Rumple, than Rumple lives in Belgium...
I'm jai-yen about this latest ID-crisis, because I know I'm innocent, I
could convince people about that, and because I think it's very amusing..
Regards,
Imba
D.B. Cooper
Considering your stated aversion to living under the "tyranny" of
restricted religious expression, I suggest you leave post haste. You
know, I really expected a more clever response from you Dweeb. Ah well,
disappointed once again! May your parachute always open, D.B.
VulcanAuto
>and already someone knows that if I would be
>Rumple, than Rumple lives in Belgium...
My Imba, suddenly your spelling and syntax have fallen apart. Why are you
unraveling like this?
.>because I know I'm innocent, I
D.B. Cooper
dinner! Hahahahahahahah
Tom Neill
was...@thai.com
>You know, to come to think of it, very little has been reported about the
>SCT meeting. Any chance that the dozen or so who might have attended
>actually turned out to be only two bodies?
animated talks for about 4 hours. It started to rain about 7 p.m. and was still
raining when we left about 9 p.m. Nice to see faces and it seems that the
discussion is not so much different from what you hear here.
wasant
Tch...@my-dejanews.com
dw...@loxinfo.co.th (David Webster) wrote:
> On Mon, 13 Jul 1998 10:13:11 -0700 (PDT), DBC...@webtv.net (D.B.
> Cooper) wrote:
>
> >various ng's they frequent.
>
> What an all-knowing visionary. First you want to set up the
> human rights standards for Thailand, then tell an entire cultural
> group of human beings what they can and cannot be exposed to. I feel
> so humbled that you take your precious time to tell me how to live my
> life. Now where have I heard that kind of "fatherly guidance" before?
>
> You know guys, you could waste your life
> >away on the usenet! Why not try going to the beach for a change; check
> >out the babes, chase some skirts, pull back on a brew or two. Perhaps
> >you both could spend the day together, even share a "Chiquita on a
> >Stick". Have a great time guys and remember Lifes a beach!
>
> Don't have time, D.B. sitting here figuring out if I should
> do as you suggested and "not go to Thailand" takes every moment of my
> free time.
Hmmm. Maybe you should do as he does and spend all day talking to your
television.
;-)
> Oh, and BTW. If you had been around for awhile, you might
> have known that when you set up a new newsgroup, you troll a lot of
> other newsgroups with notices, etc.
>
> >
>
>
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum
Tch...@my-dejanews.com
dw...@loxinfo.co.th (David Webster) wrote:
> On 14 Jul 1998 00:17:12 GMT, jo...@aol.com (Johpa) wrote:
>
> >>DBCoopr in Message-id: <18384-35...@newsd-121.bryant.webtv.net>
> >
> >>incoherent in their postings?
> >
> >geometric proportion to the time elapsed from the original posting.
>
> And "incoherence" is normally cited in direct proportion to
> the difficulty of supporting one's initial thesis.
Of course the person who would have the most difficult time supporting his
initial's thesis would be Joris, would it not? Oh, wait. You said "initial
thesis". Sorry. Ignore that.
>
> >
> >Johpa
imba
misunderstandings..
With regards,
--
Imba
remove the obvious and transliterate :
imba 'dislikes spam' at skynet dot be
D.B. Cooper <DBC...@webtv.net> schreef in artikel
<17278-35...@newsd-122.bryant.webtv.net>...
imba
> >Me and Rumple the same one
>
> >and already someone knows that if I would be
> >Rumple, than Rumple lives in Belgium...
>
> My Imba, suddenly your spelling and syntax have fallen apart. Why are
you
> unraveling like this?
>
My phoenix, as you know everything, how come you don't know all that drugs
have a devastating effect on my spelling and syntax. If some of my
spelling errors bother you, I suggest you start learning Dutch, so I can
write with less errors in my native language. Contact me in 5 years time or
so : by that time, you might be able to decipher parts of my posts in
flawless (?) Dutch...
Succes (you'll need it),
Imba
imba
Nigel Evans wrote
> You seem to be ignoring the fact that many people believe
> profoundly in their religions. How many times have you seen a girl,
> working in a bar, light three incense sticks and offer them ? I have
> always found it deeply moving. My own experience has made me bitter and
> I cannot believe in any God. I could be wrong. I certainly do not wish
> to deride others who have their own beliefs. I can remember sitting in
> one of the most "wicked" bars in Pattaya and talking to the young
> cashier. She worked twelve hours every day. She had two days off work
> every month. She told me that she had been to the Wat on Vishaka Puja to
> pray that her husband should come soon. She shrugged her shoulders and
> said " If not this life, perhaps the next ? "
> An individual's beliefs are sacred. I am much too
> insignificant to alter them.
> --
> Nigel Evans
>
Nigel has a good point here. Don't worry, Nigel, I myself hate xtianity,
islam,.., but when it comes to the believers themselves, I judge on a
case-by-case basis. One of my very best friends is a very, very, very
devout Buddhist, and seeing him tham-bun, praying (or whatever it should be
called),... is moving indeed. Although it may not seem so, I'm quite sure
most atheists here are not as black-and-white thinking as they appear to
be. It's just that the religion topic can easily bring out the jai-roonness
in most people, and one tends to forget to put any nuances in it..
The biggest part of xtianity is in it's theory as well in practice
downright evil. But I know there are also priests who disagree with Rome,
and practice their beliefs in a way for which I have respect. Regretfully,
they're just a very small minority..
With kind regards,
Imba
imba
Philip Bolton wrote
>
> This discussion has really enlightened me. I've always been disapointed
in
> my christian friends that show ignorance and intolerance towards
something
> they didn't understand. However, reading posts like those in this thread
> have shown me proof of what I always suspected. Non-christians can be
just
> as ignorant and just as intolerant of things they don't understand. It
> seems that intolerance is a human trait that will always have to be
> struggled against.
Is it intolerant to be opposed to intolerance ?
> Are their any athiests etc. out there that ARE tolerant of somebody
sharing
> an important part of their life with others on a person to person basis?
I am tolerant of ppl sharing an important part of their life, but I am
intolerant of ppl forcing it upon me or others. One of my very, very best
friends is a very devout Buddhist. I don't have any problems with that,
even if at times I was taken from one temple to the other, "had to" meet
every monk in the wide area...
But I am very intolerant when sharing becomes brainwashing, forcing a
belief on others,...
Especially if - e.g. in the case of xtianity - for a big part, this belief
consists of pure evil...
Is it intolerant to be opposed to the Burmese junta, Khmer Rouge,
extermination camps, etc... ?
With kind regards,
Imba
Rumpelstilz
> xtianity , this belief
> consists of pure evil...
... And Rome was very successful in
suppressing much of it's bad rep.
and what we know is `nuff to make ones
skin curl.
> Is it intolerant to be opposed to the Burmese junta, Khmer Rouge,
> extermination camps, etc... ?
...and of course, Rome was not at all opposed to extermination camps,
they did nothing - N O T H I N G.
Rumpelstilz
>
> Sorry Rumpel,
> I was not trying to make it look like I was quoting you. Forgive?
Absolutely !!!
Rumpel
was...@thai.com
>Any plans for another one?
Why not? The end of the year might be appropriate as it is winter and
a few Europeans and Americans are sure to feel like sample hot weather in
Bangkok.)))
wasant
lee...@my-dejanews.com
asses out of Europe, by buying them passports to South American countries...
Tch...@my-dejanews.com
Rumpelstilz wrote in message <35A936...@bellsouth.net>...
>Religion should be about spiritual guidance and growing,
>but it almost never is.
>The organized religions are about power, money and how to keep
>their followers ignorant, in order to keep them believing (and paying).
>Specially the catholic church is and was the whore of whatever
>government is in place. Just look up the word "concordat"
>the pope in Rome made a deal even with the Hitler regime.
>
>my limit. Let these freaks go to south America, Europe and US and
>proteolyse*, the people there are either x-tians already or know how to
>just say no ;-) . But the destruction of cultures on the pacific Islands
>and in S. E. Asia is intolerable!
>Christianity, Islam and many other believesystems belong on the
>garbage-heap of history, they are intolerant, spread lies and prejudice
>- in short - they're in the way of brotherhood of man
>Rumpel
>
>ps: And they shot John Lennon
>
>*on 2. thought: don't let`em go anywhere and be a nuisance
>
>rinpoche wrote:
>> You value your own freedom. But what about others' freedom? If you
>> feel uncomfortable about someone announcing a website here, how
>> comfortable do you think people feel when they read some of your
>> misinformation?
>> Thailand has laws which protect all religions. There are Thai Hindus and
>> Muslims too. Live and let live.
Tch...@my-dejanews.com
Rumpelstilz wrote in message <35A927...@bellsouth.net>...
>Joris Goetschalckx wrote:
>>
>> Rumpelstilz wrote:
>> >- Just an idea of mine: Could it be that the central government
>> >used the missionaries to destroy the hilltribe culture so they
>> >would be easier assimilated into mainstream?
>>
>> Now this is a very interesting idea! But would the Thai authorities
really be
>> so Machiavellian? That would be sick...
>> Kind regards,
>> Joris
>
>Everybody who tried to live in Thailand for longer than 3 month:
>Remember how difficult it is to get the visa without that darn pilgrimage
>to Penang? The missionaries get (if i'm not wrong) a one year visa.
>Easy to renew without leaving. How is that?
>At least in the past the central government tried to sell the idea
>that all hilltribes wanted to become good Thais, some time later
>they acknowledged the cultural identity of the minorities (coz
>their dancing is so cute and can be shown to tourists)
>Rumpel
Tch...@my-dejanews.com
Tch...@my-dejanews.com
Tch...@my-dejanews.com
Tch...@my-dejanews.com
Tch...@my-dejanews.com
Tch...@my-dejanews.com
Johpa wrote in message <199807131416...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
> wasantr in Message-id: <6oav5c$d8p$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
>
>> Yours idea is far-fetched. If the govt really wants to integrate them
into
>>mainstream, they should support Buddhist monks by asking them to go native
>>and establish monasteries, but they don't.
>
>Actually, there is/was (?) a program doing that in the hills and one can
find
>some Bhuddist villages. If you are intertested I believe Prof. Keyes wrote
a
>few academic articles regarding the program and he has also written
articles
>about ethnic change in Thailand which would include religious changes.
>
>Johpa