Sex Tourism in Thailand: A Traveller's Journal
Warindoke Nanacha
Debby Phillips
West Yorkshire, UK
Copyright 1995
May 8, Koshan Road, Bangkok
Exhausted. A long night of airports and planes. Must be around midday.
This place is full of westerners, cafes, music...bit of a shock after
our 'Sunday School Teacher' lifestyle. But, this room is clean,
there's a flush toilet (after India, I don't think I can use it,
goodness knows who has sat there, particularly all these American and
huge German men.) Met two funny little English middle-class boys at
the airport- Julian and Jeramy, now 'Germs' and 'Jaws', they clung to
us as if we were their favourite Aunties - shit scared really, so,
they came here with us. Called 'Hello' guest house.
Later. Slept most of the day. So hot here, but a different sort of
heat, humid and wet, very odd. Went out for a meal, good pavement
cafe. It's crazy here. Just full of tourists, mainly men and so many
Thai girls hanging around them. Germs and Jaws joined us. They've just
been to India for nine days hated it, now in Thailand for fifteen,
zapping round the world like nobodies business...and, spending money
like water. Rich Mummys and Daddys I suppose. They're very impressed
with the watches here. Everything is cheap. Jet lag...Jean is asleep.
The American next door is having sex with a Thai girl. Cheap room,
cheap walls - just flimsy partitions really. Have to go out for a
coffee.
Among many of the countries of South East Asia, economic development
has been based on tourism. It is in Thailand, South Korea and the
Philippines where the most blatant and systematic organization of sex
tourism is found. Here prostitution has developed on an unprecedented
scale: it is women's bodies which underpin the balance of payments
(Lee, cited Bedcliffe.79, '91). In order to earn a living from the
economic opportunities available, women sell sexual services. Tourism
in this context highlights many of the facets that determine gender
roles: ethnic identity, male sexuality/biological sex, class and the
relationship between rich North and poor South.
May 10, Koshan Road, Bangkok.
What makes me sick is these horrible American men (and others) going
around with Thai girls and having to listen to that beast next door
with yet another girl...
To understand the growth of tourism and its impact on women in
Thailand we have to look at some of the conditions that led to it's
development: for this has been a carefully promoted activity. At the
end of the Second World War, the U.S. began exerting its influence
over S. E. Asia in an effort to 'control the spread of communism'. In
1967 a treaty was signed between the U.S. military and the Thai
government allowing the U.S. soldiers stationed in Vietnam to come on
'rest and recreation' leave in Thailand. The resulting expansion in
hotels and places of entertainment was spectacular. By 1970, spending
by the U.S. military was equivalent to one quarter of the total value
of rice exports (Hosse.74,'93). Much of this money was spent on
'personal services', in other words, the sexual services of Thai
women. Although American policy had a large part to playï½·the European
concept of the 'package tour' to 'exotic' countries also promoted
Bangkok as the 'sin city'. Tourism also received massive World Bank
funding through a special development set up in 1970 known as the
Tourism Projects Department (Mosse, 74. '93).
I'm feeling a bit better, not so tired. Did a marathon washing session
then went around the shops, gazing at all the wonderful things. Bought
a hat, it's really great, sort of lacquered bamboo, triangle shape.
It's wonderful going around by boat and I love all the flowers, it's
so colourful and exciting. The streets are amazing, full of food, I
love the way they cook on the pavements and serve it up in plastic
bags. Germs and Jaws provide us with plenty of entertainment: they are
always buying loads of things. Jaws has bought 17 cassettes, Germs
numerous pairs of trousers and three pairs of reading glasses(?). They
are funny chaps. Very interested in the sex scene next door to us,
they often come to visit. We play cards. They listen for the wanker
next door to bring back his girl. Germs informed me, that I was
mistaken, he is not American but Canadian. A bastard whatever. I think
he does terrible things to those girls. They (G. & J.) want us to go
down to Patpong (red light district) with them. It makes me feel sick:
these girls are so young.
Estimates of the number of women in Thailand earning their/family
living from prostitution vary. but somewhere in the region of 6.2 to
8.7 per cent of women between the ages of 15 - 34 are reckoned to be
selling various forms of sexual services. (Mosse, 75, '93) Information
from the C.A.P. cites: 'the Thai govt. admits to 30,000 children
working as prostitutes. Independent estimates range from 200,000 to
800,000. Children as young as 7 are involved.
May 13, Koshan Road.
We're spending a long time in bars, eating, drinking, chatting,
watching videos. David Bryne in 'Stop making Sense' last night. Met a
couple of Australian guys, told us about North Queensland, places to
get work etc., while young Thai girls hung around us. They are really
beginning to annoy me: these women. I can't seem to talk to them or
even make eye contact. They are all so tiny and slim and beautiful, I
mean, how can they like these gross ugly men? The Aussie guys were
nice. How can you smile and kiss that dreadful greasy Drew bloke...
But they seem to like him.
Sex tourism is sometimes justified by pointing to the poverty of the
country in which it occurs. Sex tourists may be told about the need of
individuals to earn a family wage, or encouraged to believe that
prostitution is an expression of women's autonomy to make decisions
about their own lives and sexual conduct. Many visitors to S. E. Asia
relieve their guilt by persuading themselves that they are visiting
cultures which have different moral and sexual standards (Mosse, 74,
'93): that sex is an accepted and traditional part of
hospitality...part of their culture...religion etc. 'the prostitute,
wearing a pendant necklace of the image of Buddah, serves her customer
with a smile' (Matsui, 63, '89).
May 15, Koshan Road
American, well Canadian, bastard on form again last night! I'm sitting
here drinking coffee. Jean is having a shower. This must be the first
hangover for months. Fruit muesli, yogurt and loadsa coffee... I can
see all the European men coming out for breakfast with their Thai
girls they have spent the night with.
Money is very important to the transaction, for when men pay, it frees
then from guilt. Men are buying not just a service, but a particular
type of unsanctioned sex which entails a lack of engagement (Lee,
cited Bedcliff, 90, '91)
I suppose I must accept this. It's just that I didn't expect to see
these 'shoestring' travelers like ourselves taking advantage of the
situation: paying to sleep with young girls. Sometimes, over breakfast
they talk about how much they paid, convert it back to
U.S./English/German currency...they always say it is their choice (the
girls), I suppose it is...?
Southern tourism is firmly controlled by the countries from which the
tourists come (just like colonial rule!). Third world countries have
virtually no control over the information produced about its societies
in the North. Advertising turns the natural resources of the Third
World: 'sun, sea, sand and sex’ into commodities which can be bought
(Mosse, 74, '93). Here is an example of the sort of ads. for Thailand:
'Thailand is a world full of extremes and possibilities are unlimited.
Anything goes in this exotic country. Especially when it comes to
girls...the coffee shop is full of willing girls...Men will live like
kings in Bangkok...with the most beautiful women of the east at their
side. Thai partners are not particular, so that no European need fear
going to Bangkok for nothing. The man who has difficulty in
establishing relationships here...in Bangkok can choose among hundreds
of young women who for a tiny amount will make him feel like a great
Don Juan' (European travel brochure, lee. cited Redcliff, 91, '91.
ISIS 1979.9).
May 16 Koshan Road.
Been to a beautiful Buddhist Temple. Five letters from the Poste
Restante, went to the Sheridan Hotel for tea and read them. Felt the
usual homesickness. Jean and I bought a tape. Jaws let us borrow his
Walkman, so we had an ear each and danced round the room, even though
it was so hot. I think we just have to loosen up, I've come to the
conclusion that we've suffered from culture shock coming to Bangkok.
All this wealth and cosmopolitan lifestyle - certainly not what I
expected. How sophisticated this city is, not the seedy third world
hell hole I had imagined. It has taken time for us to realise this and
now Jean says we must just get into it and enjoy it all...
Bangkok is a blooming technological city. High tech walls keep the
poor at bay and keep the wealth enclosed. Control from within.
Prostitution is part of this...the crushing force of poverty: the dead
weight of exclusion (Vision of Heaven and Hell, Channel 4 T.V.).
May 18, Koshan Road.
I really don't like what is going on here. I like all the shops and
the river and the markets and the temples and the street life...but, I
just find this prostitution repulsive. Sometimes I'm jealous I suppose
'cos all these Thai women are scoring all the men and I liked that
Aussie bloke Chris. Everything takes so long, and it's so hot. We
spend hours just getting to the post office or to the Embassy. Waiting
for a letter from Jayne (Australia). I want to leave here, go to the
coast or somewhere...just have to sort this business stuff out.
Later: Earlier this evening I was in the wash rubs, just behind the
wall were some guys, after a while I realised it was those two S.
African guys, one of The Aussies, that English bloke who doesn't speak
to us and the two Germans. They actually started to haggle over the
girls...who had got the best deal, what she would do...who had been
ripped off, paid too much.
That men want impersonal sex is not a new idea : but why travel to
Bangkok for it? Kate Millett suggests that the purchaser is not buying
sexuality at all, but power over another human being: 'It is not sex
the prostitute is really made to sell: it's degradation' (Lee, cited
Badcliff, 90, '93).
The English bloke was being very smug, paid something like ï½£2.50, the
Aussie had been 'ripped off' apparently, they said things like: 'well,
she swallowed mine...I got her up the arse...she loved being knocked
around a bit first' I mean these were the guys we were chatting with
in the bar, in P. J.'s, about racism, Aborigine Land Rights, politics,
music, and here they are being blatantly racist, sexist…they wouldn't
get away with this at home. I was so angry, I hammered my washing with
the stone, then went out to the loo. They all said, 'hello, catch you
later'. Surely they must have known I'd heard?
With an increasingly active global feminist movement, male-controlled
sexuality (or female passivity) appears to be a scarier resource. The
travel ads are quite explicit about what is for sale: docility and
submission. The deeply racist mythology of Asian women is promoted in
this ad: 'without desire for emancipation but full of warm sensuality
and the softness of velvet..(Lenze, cited Bedcliff, 90, '93).
May 20, Koshan Road.
Well, this certainly does take the biscuit. Germs and Jaws with two
young Thai girls!! Inevitable, I suppose. The nice little 'awakening'
after private school before starting at Oxford. I suppose they just
want to be like all the other men.
The use of prostitutes becomes a proof of masculinity.
Jean said she felt a bit sad as if it were her own son's first time,
although we both agreed they were a couple of twits. Still, we're
outta here tonight! Night bus to Ko Pranang. So, Big Girls are on the
road again...
Four months later, September 2, Koshan Road.
Laying in 'Hello' guest house. Jet lagged, tired, sweating, excited,
lusting, and unable to sleep...Goodness knows the time. I feel lost.
Seems as if I was on that plane for days. What a trip. 3.00 a.m.
Survival in Bangkok Airport. Alone. Don't look anyone in the eye and
keep going. I made the exception for Philip. I was at the money
exchange and saw him in the queue. I needed someone to share a taxi
and he looked like a traveller, willing to half a taxi fare. We come
here. I am aware that he is surprised at this scene - yet for me it is
all so familiar. I haggle for the taxi fare, give directions, find us
rooms...He feels awkward, not in control 'cos he's dependent upon me.
Andrea Dworkin on Power: Power is physical strength used over and
against others.. Because men are stronger than women they dominate
them. Female strength is punished. Men chose weak women whose
development is systematically undermined. The closer women are to
power, the weaker they are. Even strong women must pretend to be weak
in order to get on (Dworkin, l5, '92).
He's a New Zealander, going to U.K., cool, very handsome. After
dropping the luggage we go down for a drink. He buys a bottle of
Mekong, I buy the water. We smoke Marlboro. Outside the street is
alive, Suzanne Vega singing 'Luka' very loud. It's about child sex
abuse. Here I am surrounded by it...
Yaowarat, in the Chinatown district, is a center for child
prostitution. The brothels are called 'teahouses', there are about
fifty of them in this area. The director of the 'Emergency Home' talks
of one of the child victims (Khunying Kanitha, cited Matsui, 64, '89).
'Noi knows nothing of the city; she has never been outside of the
teahouse. She is frightened in the big urban jungle. She was fed birth
control pills every day and had no holidays, even during her menses.
She was beaten if she refused to take a customer even when she was
sick, and she eventually contracted venereal disease. During her two
years in the teahouse, it is estimated that she served 2,000
customers. She arrived at the shelter completely ravaged in both mind
and body...Even if she returns to her village, there will not be
enough food for her'. Noi's plight is the same for thousands of young
prostitutes in Thailand.
September 4 Bangkok
Before Philip left he had a Thai girl - I won't say 'girl' anymore as
I should say 'child' !!! He had a room next to me. I couldn't have
done that. It's just a playground for men here - heterosexual men.
There are young rent boys but they too dress up like western women.
Transvestites I suppose. I just wonder what these Thai women think of
us, because if they dress like 'western women' and then they see us
wearing cut-off jeans and D. M.'s and not looking like this
'stereotype' western women I wonder if they are confused. I am.
September 8, Kanchaniburi
Matthew and I have met the Social Worker. He seems a lone man with an
enormous burden. He talked for ages, telling us about the culture /
the girls / the countryside... He knows about HIV/AIDS - at last
someone! It's been so fiercely denied, they all say: 'but our girls
are clean'.
HIV-positive cases predicted in Thailand by the year 2000 are 4
million. Estimated times daily adults violate Thai child prostitutes:
3.4 million. Child sex acts available per foreign tourist: 25.
(Observer, Dec '94).
It's better to be away from Bangkok. I'm living on the raft again, but
further away from the bridge. Some nights I think too much about the
watersnakes and can't sleep. I miss Jean. At least we used to pretend
we were in the film (Bridge over the River Kwai) and act out being
P.O.W.'s. Matthew doesn't really seem the acting sort. He's thin now
and sleeps a lot. Next time we have Mekong I'll ask him if he wants to
be Kirk Douglas, or perhaps Robert De Niro...we could act out the
'Deer Hunter' instead. But who'll be Meryl Streep?
Written Later: One weekend he (the Social Worker) took us to a small
village on the Burmese border. Here, the effects of paying off high
interest loans from the West, third world poverty and the break up of
the community, all became very real to me during our stay. Firstly, I
noticed a huge mechanical processing plant. It took up a lot of space
and seemed so out of place in this tropical jungle environment. It was
out of use, dysfunctional. Secondly, I noticed a lack of women, young
women. The social worker explained: the village had been persuaded to
grow 'cash crops', this was o.k. at first because they still had land
to grow their own food supply, but, the demand took over and land grew
more rice: along came the processing plant to polish the rice grains
in preparation for export. The plant was installed by an American
company and payment and interest was to be paid off over a set period.
But, demand for white polished rice declined during the mid 70's/80's,
the West desired brown rice. The Thai village was left with a
redundant plant, still growing rice, but with a debt and accumulating
interest. Rice could be bought anywhere but the price for young
virgins, particularly the 'submissive, all pleasing' Asian variety
(another Western stereotype of Asian Women) yielded a greater profit.
According to the villagers the young girls had left - been recruited
by an important Western man to work in his factories in The south
(Bangkok) and earning good money: enough to support the family and pay
off the debt. The social worker and I both knew what sort of 'factory
work', but at the time that community certainly did not know, or
probably could not imagine what went on in Bangkok.
The traditional Thai society, particularly with the extended family
structure, assigns great power to mothers and mother-in-laws, and
there is a strong support system among female family members.
Protecting and powerful Goddesses e.g. Nang Tani (protector of the
Banana tree) are important to Thai culture. This is why Thailand is
often called a Matriarchy (Vayrathon, cited Morgan, 67, '84).
In this village the women Elders were the most powerful and respected,
the Leaders, yet, young girls children were forced into prostitution.
Not only to finance their community but to finance their country.
For me, this experience provided a very clear example of how Third
World women pay off Third World debts - yet, the men they serviced
were the very culture who financed the demands and made the payments.
This imbalance seemed to me, not to be with Thailand but with us.
For women working as prostitutes the issue is less a moral one than an
economic one. Prostitutes are as abused and exploited as any other
female worker in the third world. Any discussion of the moral issue
involved would need to start with questioning the right of the First
World to turn parts of the Third World into its playgrounds and
battlefields (Mosse, 75, '93).
Responses: There are forms of resistance. Many young women retain self
respect and do return to their villages (although not unscarred and
untraumatized). Practical: Institutions in Bangkok provide health
services, refuges, drug/alcohol rehabcentres, training and education.
Collective: responses in both North and South have focused on public
awareness campaigns. These campaigns have denounced sexist/racist
airline adverts tourist ads and governments which promote sex tourism
(sometimes sexism doesn't carry much weight: racism does.)
I realise this just addresses the symptoms, not the main cause of
problems. While so many profit from the exploitation of women, in ways
in which governments and international agencies have 'integrated'
women into development and commercialized sex as a commodity for the
Capitalist world, then, prostitution frequently appears the only
option for poor women. Western men, whatever their 'status' at home,
feel like Sex Gods in Thailand. This coupled with the male desire for
'wholeness' and their attraction to, and repulsion from, the 'other'
i.e. 'Women', can also be related to a Nation. As Linda Grant
suggests: 'In a mythic reading, the East is irredeemably female and
passive and the West immovably male and dominant. Or, as a South East
Asian woman commented (Claire Cottingham, cited Redcliff, 100, '91):
'There's obviously something radically wrong with your society when
your sex problems have to be exported to the Third World!'
chris_...@hotmail.com
Nanacha) wrote:
Gosh...that really convinced me........
--
"Only bad persons can think bad thing from the good thing."
Ajarn Supat
16/10/00
Gulliver
the door to my office because people were wondering what I was laughing
about. Debby, whew, you're a comedian! Let me guess, you're about 185 lbs,
shaggy brown hair, 5'10", about 28 years old, low self esteem, think you're
in control of your life and don't need a man, (deep down inside, you're
dying for one). You also grew up in a Catholic family, and decided that it
wasn't for you, but the guilt that you grew up with still follows you
around. Your family got upset when you told them you were off to Asia, they
figured it was a pagan place, but to exercise your independance you decided
that you were going to learn the ways of the world. You graduated from
university, only to please your father, but it turns out, all you wanted to
do was get married, raise a family and have a white picket fence. Your job
is mediocre at best. You work very hard, but it never seems to get you
anywhere. Deep down inside, you have self loathing, and can't stand to look
at yourself in the mirror. Heck - please send me $250 and I'll continue...
All kidding aside, about your letter, you are truly misinformed... your
limited experience in Thailand, especially since you stayed in backpackers
heaven, will not make you a pro on sexuality in Thailand, or western men who
have sex in Thailand. The 'conversation' that you heard was ignorant, I
agree, but they do not represent all men who travel to Thailand. Their
experiences were flavoured up quite a bit; I have never, ever met a woman in
Thailand who 'takes it up the ass'. :(
I had a good laugh though.
Let me quote some of your more incredible statements:
> The use of prostitutes becomes a proof of masculinity.
> What makes me sick is these horrible American men
> It makes me feel sick: these girls are so young.
> I think he does terrible things to those girls.
>Many visitors to S. E. Asia relieve their guilt by persuading themselves
that they are visiting cultures which have different moral and sexual
standards
> when men pay, it frees them from guilt.
> Men are buying not just a service, but a particular type of unsanctioned
sex which entails a lack of engagement
> men want impersonal sex is not a new idea : but why travel to Bangkok for
it?
> the purchaser is not buying sexuality at all, but power over another human
being
> 'It is not sex the prostitute is really made to sell: it's degradation'
> The use of prostitutes becomes a proof of masculinity
> World women pay off Third World debts Western men, whatever their 'status'
at home,
> men feel like Sex Gods in Thailand
The one that upsets me the most:
> the English bloke was being very smug, paid something like £2.50
Did she have any teeth?
"Warindoke Nanacha" <wari...@ahyudara.com> wrote in message
news:3b163909...@news.supernews.com...
> women. Although American policy had a large part to play·the European
> World: 'sun, sea, sand and sex f into commodities which can be bought
> music, and here they are being blatantly racist, sexist cthey wouldn't
NotLao
>
>May 10, Koshan Road, Bangkok.
>
>What makes me sick is these horrible American men (and others) going
>around with Thai girls and having to listen to that beast next door
>with yet another girl...
Lucky Bastard.........
>
>
>May 13, Koshan Road.
>
>We're spending a long time in bars, eating, drinking, chatting,
>watching videos.
Khao San Road??? Did you have your Lonley Planet guidebook at the
ready???
Guess you could learn a whole alot about Thailand from sitting in a
cafe in Khao San Road watching videos.....
David Bryne in 'Stop making Sense' last night. Met a
>couple of Australian guys, told us about North Queensland, places to
>get work etc., while young Thai girls hung around us. They are really
>beginning to annoy me: these women. I can't seem to talk to them or
>even make eye contact. They are all so tiny and slim and beautiful,
Your about summing it all up right there ,
>
>
>May 15, Koshan Road
>
>American, well Canadian, bastard on form again last night!
Lucky Bastard......
.Men will live like
>kings in Bangkok...with the most beautiful women of the east at their
>side.
Dont remind me.........
>May 18, Koshan Road.
>
>I really don't like what is going on here. I like all the shops and
>the river and the markets and the temples and the street life...but, I
>just find this prostitution repulsive. Sometimes I'm jealous I suppose
>'cos all these Thai women are scoring all the men and I liked
Must be tough being an ugly skank broad in Thailand, perhaps shaving
your armpits might help........
Imba
"NotLao" <Not...@happyU.net> wrote
>
> >May 18, Koshan Road.
> >
> >I really don't like what is going on here. I like all the shops and
> >the river and the markets and the temples and the street life...but, I
> >just find this prostitution repulsive. Sometimes I'm jealous I suppose
> >'cos all these Thai women are scoring all the men and I liked
>
> Must be tough being an ugly skank broad in Thailand, perhaps shaving
> your armpits might help........
55555 Don't give Debby any false hopes !!! She can shave all she wants, but
with an attitude problem like hers, she'll have to pay to get a decent
fuck...
Imba
Joris
> 55555 Don't give Debby any false hopes !!! She can shave all she
> wants, but with an attitude problem like hers, she'll have to pay
> to get a decent fuck...
She probably hasn't had one in years. Her armpits are not her only
problem: I can smell her all the way from "Koshan Road" to here...
(phewwwww!) These farang backpacker bitches better read the following
prose I found on one of my mailing lists and that I would like to
quote in full (my apologies to the poster I stole this from - he knows
who he is):
===
What in the world is the problem with Western women these days? First
they made it clear they wanted us to leave them alone. Accusations of
date-rape, sexual harassment and other heinous crimes flew at us in
the late 80s. Guilty or not, we didn't want to get arrested, so we
laid off.
Then a few of us go on holiday in Asia, and we discover a whole new
world of women. Beautiful women who don't mind being women. No threats
of calling the police, no ritual slaughter of our egos, no demands for
more and more housework on our part. Great, we thought. Everyone's
happy. Western women are content with each other and their
Haagen-Daazs ice cream, and we're content with our Asian soul-mates.
Maybe we'll live happily after.
Then all of a sudden you see Western women coming on TV shows
complaining that they aren't getting enough sex. Letters are written
to magazines to complain that Western women's social life is nil. You
see Western women on violent crusades against pornography and
prostitution.
Let me get this straight: You won't let us have sex with you. That
would be date-rape. You won't let us have sex with Asian women. That
would be "disgusting", to use your words. You won't let us use
fantasy. That would be "immoral". Finally, you won't let us be
celibate. That would leave you deprived, according to geniuses like
Doctor Ruth.
So what do you want? Should we even care what you want? Eat all you
want. Complain all you want. But don't expect us to do what you want,
because you don't even know what that is. Just keep your rotund bodies
and your shrieking voices out of our way, and there won't be any
violence.
===
Cheers,
Joris
Imba
"Joris" <jori...@spam.hotmail.com> wrote
Brilliant prose ! Absolutely brilliant !
But I fear it's too late already. I have become more and more uncomfortable
over time that Asia is infected by those Unterfrauen beyond a critical
level, that it is doubtful we can defend our Asian bastion and will have to
lose all our respect when Asia falls. I will resist as long is possible, but
I fear the worst.
That is their plan : to leave us nowhere to go anymore.. result : no more
self-respect, men will turn into zombies, easily controlled by the
dominatrixes. Once they conquer our last fortress, our will will be broken,
than they'll just be meek tools in their hands.
Behehe behehe behehe we'll be sheep. Behehe behehe behehe !!!!!!!
I am serious, in case anyone doubts...
Imba
Joris
> I am serious, in case anyone doubts...
I know brother, but fear not. This is all just a bad spell and
eventually it will go away and things will return to normality. You
can't bend nature for more than just a generation or so...
Joris
Du gehst zu Frauen? Vergiss die Peitsche nicht!
(Nietzsche - Also sprach Zarathustra I.20:32)
stu
repulsively colored, grotesquely bulged, jiggley, sagging, distended
bag-of-skin) might be better for starters; next would be a douche with an
industrial solvent, and in a lot of cases perhaps shaving the face should
take priority over the armpits.
Anyway, Debbie, I see you wrote that stuff like 6 years ago. Let me be
the first to tell you that "Things have changed!!!!!!!!!! "
....................... FOR THE WORSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HA! HA! HA! HA!
HA!
I heard you were only bit by an insect once while in Thailand, by a
mosquito with a cold that couldn't smell a thing? Well into his first suck
his little nostrils cleared, and then he hurled!!!!!!!............
projectile vomit from a mosquito!!!!!!
Chanchao
in Thailand: A Traveller's Journal", to which I would like to add:
>Sex Tourism in Thailand: A Traveller's Journal
Sorry, could finish it.. While hilarious at times, so much drivel,
stereotyping, racist and sexist comments then with some pseudo scientific
quotes mixed in... Just a bit too much. I bet somone will write something
some day and quote crap from THIS piece of work trying to sound credible..
>Debby Phillips
>West Yorkshire, UK
>Copyright 1995
That kinda explaines it.. We're 6 years on now and I think overall people are
more sensible and less bigoted of the scene now.
Cheers,
Chanchao
Arnold
> I have never laughed so hard on soc.culture.thai in my life. I had to close
> the door to my office because people were wondering what I was laughing
> about. Debby, whew, you're a comedian! Let me guess, you're about 185 lbs,
> shaggy brown hair, 5'10", about 28 years old, low self esteem, think you're
> in control of your life and don't need a man, (deep down inside, you're
> dying for one).
Umm.. I think you will find Debby doesn't exist. A "Travellers
Journal" containing "Jules and Julian" is too good to be true.
flux
I doubt poor Debby is going to hear about any of our derisory comments. The
article was lifted by whoever wari...@ahyudara.com is from the The
University of Rhode Island web site's section on
"The Coalition Against Trafficking in Women"
http://www.uri.edu/artsci/wms/hughes/catw/phillips.htm
It would be great to think she would hear what was said though!
cheers
"Chanchao" <Chan...@nym.alias.net> wrote in message
news:2001060104292...@nym.alias.net...
Osama
sociology at some red brick or low ranking University. They stick together
most of the time and never argue about anything. They have all read all the
same text books and they have all followed the same conclusions. What is
there to argue about? And then they go off on their gap year and walk about
auto-understanding everything that meets their eyes. Well they've sociology
books after all and so far in their little world they've never once heard
any dissenting voice to their tired pompous ideas.
Osama
"Arnold" <arn...@umpire.com> wrote in message
news:204992ae.01053...@posting.google.com...
helv...@mindspring.com
author author
tunja
Joris wrote in message
helv...@mindspring.com
marching for equal rights. About one half were Thai the other,including the
leaders were plain (to be kind) rotund farang females. Spinkled through this
sad display were a few farang males clearly being led by their buffalo
butted farang wives. It was hard not to laugh, well actually I did chuckle
out loud, but the reach of the fat farang female is not to be dismissed
lightly
tunja
NotLao
Gheez, how many more years before Thailand gets flushed down the
toilet. I have seen it slowly happening over the past 10 years.
Certainly it will be a paradise lost.
Places like Cambodia are just to sleazy.
Joris
> ... It was hard not to laugh, well actually I did chuckle
> out loud, but the reach of the fat farang female is not to be
> dismissed
Indeed, and I suggest you take a quick look at this website another
poster pointed us to:
http://www.uri.edu/artsci/wms/hughes/catw/catw.htm
These cretins are dangerous.
*shiver*
Joris
Roge
If she's from there, then I would put money on the previous posters' assumed physical assessments of the lass being accurate.
I'm moved from lurking to posting by the shiver that passed down my back as read this pubescent tripe. Her attitude is that of many a Western women who is transplanted from the sanctity of her safe European home to suffer the horrors life in Asia. They form groups of like minded white middle class wives who band together against the common enemy - Asian woman !
It sounds like Debby is ready to give her inaugural speech at the expat wives club.
Roge.
helv...@mindspring.com
legal. I am a libertarian, it is a victimless crime unless the spread of a
disease occurs.
tunja
Joris wrote in message <9f8kq3$f1k$1...@rivage.news.be.easynet.net>...
Osama
please it didn't happen. Are you sure it wasn't KS Road, or perhaps another
country?
Osama
<helv...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:9f88mu$iie$1...@slb1.atl.mindspring.net...
Tommy McGhee
Osama <osamabin...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:9f855v$bcc$1...@news.loxinfo.co.th...
> Oh no she does exist. I've met hundreds of Debbies. They mostly studies
> sociology at some red brick or low ranking University. They stick together
> most of the time and never argue about anything. They have all read all
the
> same text books and they have all followed the same conclusions. What is
> there to argue about? And then they go off on their gap year and walk
about
> auto-understanding everything that meets their eyes.
Yes, but they don't read SCT. More's the pity.
TMcG
Osama
please it didn't happen. Are you sure it wasn't KS Road, or perhaps another
country?
Osama
<helv...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:9f88mu$iie$1...@slb1.atl.mindspring.net...
My Hobby
BTW, I rather enjoy reality-based fiction.
Hobby
flux <flu...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:uuIR6.1327$E42.18031@NewsReader...
JB
soc.culture.thai:
You know some of you guys really need to find somewhere else to meet
women.
I've never understood this "all western women are fat, ugly b*tches
and all Asian women are beautiful feminine creatures" attitude.
You must go around with your eyes closed everywhere. This thread is
just one lot of stereotypers accusing another lot of stereotyping.
There are both beautiful and ugly women in all countries in the world.
Who on earth are you responding to, anyway? The original author is not
reading this. It is just a round of mutual moaning and
back-slapping... or is there some justifying going on here?
JB
Lumier
Lumier
Dont just stand there. Panic!!!!
OM
OM
"Lumier" <lum...@techemail.com> wrote in message
news:3b1874c5....@news.loxinfo.co.th...
Osama
----- Original Message -----
From: "JB" <J...@home.with.thecat>
> You know some of you guys really need to find somewhere else to meet
> women.
Can you suggest an area? Like outside S.E. Asia? Where?
> I've never understood this "all western women are fat, ugly b*tches
> and all Asian women are beautiful feminine creatures" attitude.
Is that what's being said?
> There are both beautiful and ugly women in all countries in the world.
Where are the ugly ones in Thailand? Is there a town you could mention, as I
can't find it.
> Who on earth are you responding to, anyway? The original author is not
> reading this. It is just a round of mutual moaning and
> back-slapping... or is there some justifying going on here?
It was there for discussion. The origanal author of the Bangkok Post
articles, Pattaya Mail etc is not there either, so should there be no
comments made about these postings too?
Osama
ro...@invalid.domain.com
> Can you suggest an area? Like outside S.E. Asia? Where?
i always thought vancouver, bc, canada had some really attractive
girls. likewise with paris, france too. harder to meet girls in the
latter if you don't speak french, but i met this model on top of the
arc de triomphe (ah, memories)...
i've never been to colombia (and south america in general) but the few
girls i know from there are very attractive.
> Where are the ugly ones in Thailand? Is there a town you could
> mention, as I can't find it.
they're all over bangkok, imo. i think some thai girls are very
attractive but i've seen significant numbers who are not. still, on a
per capita level, thailand is hard to beat (i don't know of any place
that would). the most attractive girls, in my view, are not in bangkok
but in the northeast of thailand (not in the cities).
anyways, while i'm sure some western feminists look like the
stereotypes, the ones i know have generally been extremely attractive,
definitely model quality. if anything, the complaint would be that
they're too waifish, etc. but those comments would also apply to a lot
of attractive thai girls.
i personally like their frankness and their genuinely sexually
liberated nature (i.e., very alpha female-like). as a feminist, i
think this is the direction it should go (i.e., what's good for boys
is good for girls and vice versa) and i do think the andrea
dworkin/catherine mckinnon type of reaction is too... well,
reactionary, but everyone entitled to an opinion (and you know what
they say about opinions).
so do people on sct really get worked up over these postings or are
they just blowing smoke (i'm referring to this thread as well as the
thread initiated by rukus)?
Osama
I'm all for equal rights myself. It's just that the story posted here comes
from someone who would have went along with Karl Marx a century ago, not
Emilin (sp?) Pankhurst. State control, socialism/communism in particular
have been responsible for more child sex, torture, abuse of rights, poverty
and indeed prostitution (if you exclude Thailand!) than anything else in
this world.
> The most attractive girls, in my view, are not in bangkok
> but in the northeast of thailand (not in the cities).
I found that the only good looking girls in Isaan were the ones there on
holiday from Bangkok. Virtually every good looker above the age of 18 is
working in Bangkok. That's maybe an exaggeration but it's not much of one.
Osama
Osama
<ro...@invalid.domain.com> wrote in message news:mG1S6.1040well
> i always thought vancouver, bc, canada had some really attractive
> girls. likewise with paris, france too. harder to meet girls in the
> latter if you don't speak french, but i met this model on top of the
> arc de triomphe (ah, memories)...
Well, chatting up Parisian models in Paris just has never been my life. But
I have to say truthfully that once I had discovered SE Asia, if I suddenly
turned into Mr. Handsome Guy, then I wouldn't be visiting the Arc De
Triomphe.
> i've never been to colombia (and south america in general) but the few
> girls i know from there are very attractive.
Yes, I know. A lot of them can look like Thai.
> > Where are the ugly ones in Thailand? Is there a town you could
> > mention, as I can't find it.
>
> they're all over bangkok,
Don't know how I missed them last time.
> so do people on sct really get worked up over these postings or are
> they just blowing smoke (i'm referring to this thread as well as the
> thread initiated by rukus)?
No post in recent memory has worked me up like this one. I could cut out the
bits that I scremed at if you like.
Osama
ro...@invalid.domain.com
> I'm all for equal rights myself. It's just that the story posted
> here comes from someone who would have went along with Karl Marx a
> century ago, not Emilin (sp?) Pankhurst. State control,
> socialism/communism in particular have been responsible for more
> child sex, torture, abuse of rights, poverty and indeed prostitution
> (if you exclude Thailand!) than anything else in this world.
no dispute there. it is an antiquated viewpoint in my view, but i just
dismiss it. it's like all the people who've been predicting the death
of the internet the last 30 years.
> I found that the only good looking girls in Isaan were the ones
> there on holiday from Bangkok. Virtually every good looker above the
> age of 18 is working in Bangkok. That's maybe an exaggeration but
> it's not much of one.
maybe the "above the age of 18" is key. i remember looking around the
girls who were in their mid-teens or so and thinking "these girls are
going to be real lookers in a couple of years years."
ro...@invalid.domain.com
> Well, chatting up Parisian models in Paris just has never been my
> life. But I have to say truthfully that once I had discovered SE
> Asia, if I suddenly turned into Mr. Handsome Guy, then I wouldn't be
> visiting the Arc De Triomphe.
it is nice to see the sunset with the eiffel tower in the backdrop.
> Don't know how I missed them last time.
me neither. i did think about this issue. just go to a conglomeration
of street vendors and look at some of them. you'll see short ones,
tall ones, fat ones, thin ones, etc.
(well this is what i saw, anyway.)
but just going by the statement in your last post, that virtually all
good looking girls above the age of 18 from isaan are in bangkok, what
does that say about all the other girls over the age of 18 still in
isaan? :-)
> No post in recent memory has worked me up like this one. I could cut
> out the bits that I scremed at if you like.
sure; i myself tuned it out the moment she quoted andrea dworkin.
Eric Servaes
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "JB" <J...@home.with.thecat>
> Where are the ugly ones in Thailand? Is there a town you could mention, as
I
> can't find it.
I knew one, she used to live in "Kut Sap" near Udon Thani.. ;-)
> Osama
>
>
>
>
helv...@mindspring.com
Could I tell you it wasn't so I would, but alas, it's true. This year I
didn't encounter it, but as you know I bump around a bit when in the LOS,
and might have missed it. They are everywhere, importing their feminazi
idealologies and trying to warp the fabric of societies that will allow them
into their countries. In this one case, perhaps the Afgans have it
right.:-))) Keep the bitches out.
Sitting lost in america with only 4 beer changs to tide me over, till my
return. Ok my lady will bring more next month but its still sad.:-((
tunja
Osama wrote in message <9f9h2a$j50$1...@news.loxinfo.co.th>...
helv...@mindspring.com
their aren't beautiful women elsewhere, I've been fortunate to meet many.
But as a generalization, women from the west are fat, or will be. ( remember
look at the mother to see how the daughter will probably be looking in not
that many years) Women of the west are opinionated self serving bitches.
(know anyone who has been in a divoice court, even if no children envolved)
I truly get turned off by the many euro ladies (and now feminazi americans)
who don't shave their pits, you might enjoy this, I don't. I get turned off
by euro women complaining that I shower too much, why do I do it. ( I've
always done this, growing up in Fla. with no air con )
Not all Thai ladies have straight teeth but as your in Britain whats up with
the womens teeth there? No dentists ?(orthos) Where as the average lady in
Thailand has nice teeth.
Lets look at skin, well maybe not too closely at the western lady, why?
cellulite, acne, large pores, coated with powders and pastes to "enhance"
(cover up) their problems. My lady uses an eyebrow pencil on occasion, her
skin is just fine, naturally. (As is your ladies)
Now lets go into their attitute, it sucks.
I'd much rather have a Thai, and no I don't have to travel to Thailand to
get a women, I did quite well for myself over the years. It just boils down
to preference, what I like. Hell I never had any intention of getting
married, damn it doesn't make any sense as I've been able have my cake and
eat it too, much less go through all the gov't rigamarol, but this short
thai lady rules all, wearing her velvet glove over her iron fist holding on
to my heart.
tunja
JB wrote in message ...
helv...@mindspring.com
has its charms, but the downside is gertainly greater than the up.
As for Colombian ladies yes they can be attractive as can the Venezulaians,
but they ain't perfect. You'll have to know I've been there 15 times, the
longest visit for a year and a half. Was married to a Colombian lady from a
very well off family, that still are in my life through their visits here,
and my visits there as well as in Miami where most now reside. Although one
lives in the Canary Islands. My ex left me a bit of land when she died 4
years ago, my screen name and e=mail addresses are Colombian related, but
they aren't Thai. They aren't Buddhist, they are caring giving people, they
are and will always be family, but they aren't Thai.
Excluding the physical aspect, the Thai are different because of their
religion, their beliefs seperate them from westerners, but throw in their
slim physical statue and I couldn't be with a western women for a serious
relationship again.
thaiaphile
tunja
Osama wrote in message <9fac4l$1re$1...@news.loxinfo.co.th>...
JB
<osamabin...@hotmail.com> wrote in soc.culture.thai:
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "JB" <J...@home.with.thecat>
>
>> You know some of you guys really need to find somewhere else to meet
>> women.
>
>Can you suggest an area? Like outside S.E. Asia? Where?
Name a country... I have certainly found them in Egypt, France,
Hungary, Jamaica, Scandinavia, UK, USA,... pick a country, any
country.
>> I've never understood this "all western women are fat, ugly b*tches
>> and all Asian women are beautiful feminine creatures" attitude.
>
>Is that what's being said?
Yep, see your comment above.
>> There are both beautiful and ugly women in all countries in the world.
>
>Where are the ugly ones in Thailand? Is there a town you could mention, as I
>can't find it.
First go to an eye doctor immediately. If he says there is nothing
wrong then make sure your eyes are actually open. Then just look
around... mention any town... yep, there's ugly ones there.
>> Who on earth are you responding to, anyway? The original author is not
>> reading this. It is just a round of mutual moaning and
>> back-slapping... or is there some justifying going on here?
>
>It was there for discussion. The origanal author of the Bangkok Post
>articles, Pattaya Mail etc is not there either, so should there be no
>comments made about these postings too?
Not some of the posts that immediately start arguing with the
author... rather stupid really. Osama, you can feel free to comment on
anything you like... up to you. But all the personal insults directed
at Debbie... what's the point? Is she reading them? I don't think
so... unless you think that she's been lurking for the last 6 years
just in case?
JB
Osama
which is hardly going to bring out much argument. What was interesting
though was some of the more articulate posts, like Gulliver's for example.
What I think, put into words.
As far as some of the things I have said, they are not meant to be taken at
face value. Yes, JB I have noticed good looking women in different countries
and I have noticed bad looking woman in Thailand (but not many I have to
add). I also have some good woman friends in the UK who I can talk to deeply
and within the cultural template that I was born into. I cannot though find
in them the charm that just oozes out of SE Asian women. I think that was
all that I was trying to say.
Osama
"JB" <J...@home.with.thecat> wrote in message
news:2h6ihtg2e01oorfvn...@4ax.com...
Gulliver
> girls.
beautiful. (I can say that because vancouver is my home).
BUT, you're missing the point. Thai women are not just attractive because
they are physically beautiful; but because they have an attitude about their
sexuality that men find very attractive. It's all in the attitude.
<ro...@invalid.domain.com> wrote in message
news:mG1S6.1040$eZ5.5...@news.uswest.net...
Joris
> I knew one, she used to live in "Kut Sap" near Udon Thani.. ;-)
Kutsap? KUTSAP!? 55555!
Surely you must be joking?
:-)
Joris
Mort
>Osama <osamabin...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Can you suggest an area? Like outside S.E. Asia? Where?
>
>i always thought vancouver, bc, canada had some really attractive
>girls. likewise with paris, france too. harder to meet girls in the
>latter if you don't speak french, but i met this model on top of the
>arc de triomphe (ah, memories)...
>
>snip<
I suppose she was a top-modele ;-)
Mort
Joris
> I've never understood this "all western women are fat, ugly b*tches
> and all Asian women are beautiful feminine creatures" attitude.
Hi JB,
I agree with you that there are many beautiful farang girls too. In
fact I have always been considered more or less a heretic in the
asfo crowd, since on the (rare) occasions I do a short-time in
Thailand, I prefer to use one (or two ;-) of those big-busted blonde
models from Russia that now are available everywhere :-)
But you asked:
> Who on earth are you responding to, anyway? The original author is
> not reading this.
That's right, the original author is probably not reading this
discussion, but I guess we are hoping that some of the morons behind
the CATW-website are reading this too - and if we can send any of them
in a fit of rage and make them foam at the mouth, our day is made :-)
*Chuckle* - *snortle*
Joris
Eric Servaes
"Joris" <jori...@spam.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:9fbgeq$27at$2...@rivage.news.be.easynet.net...
In fact, it was KutChap but for obvious reasons (to the dutchspeakers among
us) I altered it a little bit.
Eric.
Meat
>and your shrieking voices out of our way,
Here... Here....
Meat
JB
soc.culture.thai:
>I respond because it strikes me fancy to reply to Joris's post. I'll not say
>their aren't beautiful women elsewhere, I've been fortunate to meet many.
>But as a generalization,..
Yes, it's exactly that. Of course beauty is in the eye of the beholder
but what I see in some posts (not necessarily yours, tunja) is
actually a rascist attitude of categorising all women according to
their nationality. Stereotyping, stereotyping... yes, I've seen a lot
of fat women int he USA (and a lot of fat men) but I have also seen
some that aren't.
>Not all Thai ladies have straight teeth but as your in Britain whats up with
>the womens teeth there? No dentists ?(orthos) Where as the average lady in
>Thailand has nice teeth.
555! I know one Thai girl who has real fangs in her mouth and as far
as English girls go... I don't know how long you spent in the UK but
you must have sought out the ones with ugly teeth. I see many, many
girls with beautiful teeth (as I behold them in my eye).
>Lets look at skin, well maybe not too closely at the western lady, why?
>cellulite, acne, large pores, coated with powders and pastes to "enhance"
>(cover up) their problems.
Again, this is not what I see... you must be living in the wrong part
of town.
>My lady uses an eyebrow pencil on occasion, her
>skin is just fine, naturally. (As is your ladies)
Aw.. now that's not fair. My lady is perfect and as you have met her I
cannot pretend otherwise... does that mean that my whole argument has
just crumbled?
>Now lets go into their attitute, it sucks.
Maybe for some... but for others, not necessarily. I have been
involved with women in the west that treat their man just as well as a
Thai lady does...
>I'd much rather have a Thai, and no I don't have to travel to Thailand to
>get a women, I did quite well for myself over the years. It just boils down
>to preference, what I like. Hell I never had any intention of getting
>married, damn it doesn't make any sense as I've been able have my cake and
>eat it too, much less go through all the gov't rigamarol, but this short
>thai lady rules all, wearing her velvet glove over her iron fist holding on
>to my heart.
>tunja
So really the Thai lady can be just as pushy as any other lady... so
there's no difference.
I'm rapidly getting the impression that there must be only a few
beautiful women in the world outside Thailand and that they have all
been going out with JB. Of course, inside Thailand I have to pay for
being with the most beautiful "sao Isaan" by having ugly Thai women
pass within eyeshot everso often. Oh yes, I also get to see fat Thai
women as well - did you know that some Thai women are fat? Shocking I
know, but someone's got to see them. It's ok... it's worth it.
JB
Gulliver
Please tell me where I can get one of those big-busted blonde Russian
models.
Variety is the spice of life.
Gull
"Joris" <jori...@spam.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:9fbhb4$27o1$2...@rivage.news.be.easynet.net...
Robert Hauger
Yes Thai girls are very beautiful and have that something that makes
attractive to men,but if you want to meet some drop dead gorges girls go
to Disney land.Walt hired all he could find,and I ain't talking about
Snow White.
ROBERT B.HAUGER
Joris
> Hi Joris,
> Please tell me where I can get one of those big-busted blonde
> Russian models.
> Variety is the spice of life.
Mais oui, mon cher, no problem. Soi nana nua, around the Grace
Hotel... In Pattaya they are scattered all over the place (the local
authorities are trying to chase them away), so there you'll have to
look around a little more. They tend to hang around in groups of three
or four, trying to look like (almost) normal farang tourists, by
mingling with the crowd and behaving like *customers* in the bars and
discos.... Apparently, however unbelievable that may seem to us, the
average Thai police-man does not see the difference between the fat
crusty hairy smelly backpacker bitches from the West and those
sophisticated slender sexy busty babes of the East... Or at least
they're not sufficiently sure to take the risk of embarrassing a
genuine tourist with risqué questions ("Umm, lady, pardon me, do you
dress sexy just to look sexy and because it is hot, or are you a
hooker?"). Of course, we farang men spot them from a hundred meters
away :-) Saw quite a lot of them hanging around in the "Arab part" of
South, because the patrons there tend to pay more... Then there's
quite a lot of them hiding in closed bars, looking like any normal
karaoke from the outside... that's also where they do those famous
naughty shows ;-) But we're definitely venturing outside the range of
generally acceptable topics on SCT, I'd say, so I'll stop here...
Cheers,
Boris
(Joris)
Gulliver
Going back (Yaaaaay!!!) next month. Will let you know how it works out...
Depends on whether the 8th fleet is in...
"Joris" <jori...@spam.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:9fc5b5$2jip$1...@rivage.news.be.easynet.net...
helv...@mindspring.com
percentage of them will gain less weight than their western conterpart as
they age, America is the fattest least fit country, period. Not all that far
behind is the northern part of europe. Diet,
As for teeth Catherine Zeta Jones, a lovely women, sure could've used a
dentist when she was young. Doesn't mean I'd throw her outta my room, were I
availible anymore. Well maybe if she paid me well I'd prostitute myself. We
all have our price, and I guess I could try to explain to my lady that the
money was just too good.
Skin, no country compares to the US in the amount of face puttys sold.
We're not talking about the type of lady that you or I would socialize
with, but whom the average person mostly encounters. Not saying I'm better
or worse than anyone else, but maybe more selective than most in what
females I'll even talk with. OK I'm a snob.
I kind of like the Argentina solution, where the people utilize plastic
surgeons to the max, for everything face lifts butt lifts tits etc
But the pure senuality put forth by the average thai lady contrasted with
the average western female definitely puts them in a class above.
I still have a weakness for south american ladies, as they truly can be
heart stoppingly beautiful, My mother in law was Miss Cali in her youth, and
her children reflected her beauty. My wife's cousin was Miss Colombia and
she gave me a rise whenever I was in her presence, which sadly wasn't often
enough, or maybe too often according to my wife.
But really the Thai ladies charm lie in their attitute, which can be
attributed to their religion. I guess thats why I'm so leery of any inroads
made in Thailand by fear based religions.
tunja
PopBoy
>
>You know some of you guys really need to find somewhere else to meet
>women.
>
>I've never understood this "all western women are fat, ugly b*tches
>and all Asian women are beautiful feminine creatures" attitude.
>
>You must go around with your eyes closed everywhere. This thread is
>just one lot of stereotypers accusing another lot of stereotyping.
>
>There are both beautiful and ugly women in all countries in the world.
>
>Who on earth are you responding to, anyway? The original author is not
>reading this. It is just a round of mutual moaning and
>back-slapping... or is there some justifying going on here?
>
>JB
I was wondering when someone was going to speak out about the tone of
the replies to the original post.
I agree with JB 100% on this one (Sorry JB).
PopBoy
PopBoy
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "JB" <J...@home.with.thecat>
>
>> You know some of you guys really need to find somewhere else to meet
>> women.
>
>Can you suggest an area? Like outside S.E. Asia? Where?
>
Find a globe, randomly place your finger on any country, and I am sure
you will find an abundant supply of beautiful and caring women.
If you cant, then that says more about you than the country you are
pointing to.
>> I've never understood this "all western women are fat, ugly b*tches
>> and all Asian women are beautiful feminine creatures" attitude.
>
>Is that what's being said?
>
>> There are both beautiful and ugly women in all countries in the world.
>
>Where are the ugly ones in Thailand? Is there a town you could mention, as I
>can't find it.
>
I have seen plenty. Admittedly there are more in NZ than Thailand
though.
*snip*
>
>Osama
>
PopBoy
>Sitting lost in america with only 4 beer changs to tide me over, till my
>return. Ok my lady will bring more next month but its still sad.:-((
>tunja
Why am I not surprised that a lost man who has to wait for his 'lady'
to bring back his beers is unable to deal with the idea of feminism,
or even women having an equal footing to men.
Of course, rather than looking like an Asiaphile, you could always go
to the store yourself and buy some of the local brew. Sure, I like
Chang, but I also like Heineken, Steinlager, Tuborg and the list goes
on.
PopBoy
PopBoy
Personally, I think it is your attitude that sucks. Maybe you are
describing the women in your family (wouldnt surprise me), but I thank
whomever is watching that She didnt make too many more like you to
spout this narrow minded, down right offensive, Asiaphile bullshit.
PopBoy
Meat
>>their aren't beautiful women elsewhere, I've been fortunate to meet many.
>>But as a generalization,..
>
>Yes, it's exactly that.
JB, get a grip, there is nothing wrong with generalizing as long as we
understand it's a generalization..
>Where as the average lady in
>>Thailand has nice teeth.
>
>555! I know one Thai girl who has real fangs in her mouth
Again he is speaking about an admitted generalization..Notice "the average lady
in Thailand" And you are trying to shoot him down with one example..
>Lets look at skin, well maybe not too closely at the western lady, why?
>>cellulite, acne, large pores, coated with powders and pastes to "enhance"
>>(cover up) their problems.
>
>Again, this is not what I see... you must be living in the wrong part
>of town.
JB, let me hold your hand through this one.. He is saying that Thai women
generally have much better skin than western women.. Yes, THIS IS A
GENERALIZATION.. But you NEVER generalize right?
>Aw.. now that's not fair. My lady is perfect and as you have met her I
>cannot pretend otherwise... does that mean that my whole argument has
>just crumbled?
You never had an argument to begin with...
>>Now lets go into their attitute, it sucks.
>
>Maybe for some... but for others, not necessarily
Duh... Do you really think that he is saying there is absolutely no
exceptions? Let me repeat and slowly this time... HE IS SAYING THAT WESTERN
LADIES GENERALLY HAVE WORSE ATTITUDES THAN THAIS...
Meat
Osama
you?
Will this thread ever end? Maybe you should find another job Popboy. You
have too much time on your hands.
Osama
"PopBoy" <poo...@boypop.co.nz> wrote in message
news:9aijhtggb6h4csmf7...@4ax.com...
Osama
From the minute Debbie was born she was brought up in a culture that she
learned to understand. Culture though, is not an exact science and why
should there be some universal perspective of what a culture should or
should not be? The formation of experiences that culminates in making a
person Thai compared to an American is hugely different than say an
Englishman compared to an American, or to a Russian or to a South African.
Travelling around Europe, Russia, the Americas, Africa or wherever Debbie
has got to, serves to reinforce the idea that people's own perceptions and
expectations of other societies was actually quite right after all. It
enforces the perception that their cultural template is universally accepted
throughout the world. The trouble is, and this is my point, this template
does not fit into Thailand. People do though try and fit this template onto
whatever life-situation they come across here. They actually force their
template onto this culture, and the Thais rather than make it difficult,
actually help them. In a culture where "face" is all important, conflicts
are avoided at all costs and that includes a conflict of culture. Studying
this culture and trying to understand it, brings only inner-conflict and
contradictions and surfaces more questions than answers. In the west, any
cultural disparity is mostly immediately apparent, but not so in Asia. In
Thailand, westerner's wrong perceptions of the country and how they
understand how things are, just meet with smiles by the host culture.
Furthermore, living here does not in any way guarantee that you will have
some appreciation of the complexities of the biggest cultural clash on the
planet. Why is it that Debbie thinks she knows the place on her first visit?
It is cultural arrogance at its zenith. Maybe that's what's annoying people
here, it's not about feminism.
Osama
WrdMizr
>Beauty is only skin deep!
But who wants to skin them?
OM
last verse..
English Teeth, English Teeth,
Hear them click and clack.
Three cheers for good old England,
Here's to the grey, brown and black.
(Spike Milligan)
OM
"JB" <J...@home.with.thecat> wrote in message
news:v8riht0b3jv1moiue...@4ax.com...
<snip>
OM
OM
"Meat" <cmea...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010603024752...@ng-cp1.aol.com...
<Snip>
OM
of hookers and strip bars. Got so that it was hard to find a place to have a
quiet beer without some woman coming on stage and tearing her clothes off.
First place in the world that I saw a "shower" on stage as well, and this
was about 12 years ago. Also only the second place in the world where I have
been offered a child prostitute, right on the street (the other place was
Kings Cross, in Sydney - both times I told the cops, but both times they
were not interested). On the strip joints again, one had a sign that could
be seen from the back saying "25 beautiful, naked girls on stage", and then
just below, on a door, "No rear entry allowed"
OM
"Gulliver" <lunar...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:e7bS6.16563$US6.4...@news0.telusplanet.net...
Tom Clasener
Hey Robert....
Wouldn't all those girls be a little long in the tooth now? As far as
I know, Walt Disney has been dead for decades...I could be wrong of
course.......
TC
Tom Clasener
wrote:
That's because JB's point makes a heck of a lot of sense....yours
doesn't
TC
Henry Felter
just a namby pamby little boy who hasn't cultivated a taste for the finer
things in life. Your growth as a person hasn't yet taken a second step in
life, just weaned from your mothers large and very pretty breasts. (you did
mention that before, anyway you said they were ample, I assumed they were
pretty)
The beers you named are commercial crap, at least tell me you like to hang
out in your favorite brew pub quaffing one of their better brews rather than
naming the crap you have. Next you'll be claiming Budweisers the king of
beers. Get a taste bud.
tunja
PopBoy wrote in message <9aijhtggb6h4csmf7...@4ax.com>...
Henry Felter
really close to home. And if I've offended you, more power to me little boy.
Your an arguementative piece of clap trap, whose opinion, to quote Jefferson
Airplane, does mean shit to a tree.
tunja
PopBoy wrote in message ...
>>On Sat, 2 Jun 2001 10:43:09 -0400, <helv...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>>I respond because it strikes me fancy to reply to Joris's post. I'll not
say
>>their aren't beautiful women elsewhere, I've been fortunate to meet many.
>>But as a generalization, women from the west are fat, or will be.
Gulliver
stage, rip their clothes off, and take a shower; right in the middle of your
icy cold beer. Here, unlike almost every other place I've been to, the women
are very erotic when they dance. They don't just 'peel' their clothes off.
That being said, I've never taken one home, so who knows?
But, child prostitution? I'm not sure where you went, but I've been here for
a long time, and have never ever ever seen a child prostitute, let alone
been offered one. Actually, I'm quite amazed... it was probably a throw-back
to Expo '86. Nowadays, all activities take place in massage parlours; but I
wouldn't know. I save my money to stimulate Thailand's economy.
Kings Cross? A wretched place. I know a cop who works in the district... he
has story's that would make the most hardened individual sick...
Gull
"OM" <lepp...@loxinfo.coitus.th> wrote in message
news:9fdcs1$c69$1...@news.loxinfo.co.th...
Joris
> Going back (Yaaaaay!!!) next month. Will let you know how it works
> out...
OK, then don't forget the SCT Party on 30 June!
:-)
Joris
Imba
"Joris" <jori...@spam.hotmail.com> wrote
> "Gulliver" <lunar...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi Joris,
> > Please tell me where I can get one of those big-busted blonde
> > Russian models.
> > Variety is the spice of life.
>
> hooker?"). Of course, we farang men spot them from a hundred meters
> away :-) Saw quite a lot of them hanging around in the "Arab part" of
> South, because the patrons there tend to pay more... Then there's
> quite a lot of them hiding in closed bars, looking like any normal
> karaoke from the outside... that's also where they do those famous
> naughty shows ;-) But we're definitely venturing outside the range of
> generally acceptable topics on SCT, I'd say, so I'll stop here...
>
> Cheers,
> Boris
>
> (Joris)
There's also always a bunch of them in the 'coffee shop' (which stays open
all night) of Mike's Place Soi 3 (Nana nua)
Imba
JB
I hope that you are apologising for the right thing. One of your most
annoying traits is the manner in which you post. Ill-informed and
intransigent in your opinions you seem to be adept at alienating those
that agree with your basic premise - as I have mentioned before. You
display a spectacular skill at avoiding the very points that should be
raised in these threads whilst concentrating on engaging in a war of
words with anyone whose opinion (no matter how informed) differs with
your own.
Back in January there was great potential for an interesting
discussion on the one topic that seems to be your all-consuming
interest in this NG. However, time and time again you have blown it.
JB
JB
soc.culture.thai:
>>>I respond because it strikes me fancy to reply to Joris's post. I'll not say
>>>their aren't beautiful women elsewhere, I've been fortunate to meet many.
>>>But as a generalization,..
>>
>>Yes, it's exactly that.
>
>JB, get a grip, there is nothing wrong with generalizing as long as we
>understand it's a generalization..
Did I say there's something wrong? You seem to be repeating exactly
what I said.
555... still licking your wounds, Chris?
Get a grip, grow up and get over it.
JB
tester
believe some of those "drop deads" may have done so already--or are about to
:-) Of course, Robert isn't exactly the youngest guy around SCT, so I guess
it depends on your perspective.
tester
Tom Clasener <tom...@metva.com.au> wrote in message
news:24ikht8ln0g0n8lvd...@4ax.com...
flux
try it at : http://www.alltheweb.com
cheers
"My Hobby" <mgeo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4lYR6.11488$S2.8...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
How were you able to locate the source of this posting?
BTW, I rather enjoy reality-based fiction.
Hobby
flux <flu...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:uuIR6.1327$E42.18031@NewsReader...
> Hi,
>
> I doubt poor Debby is going to hear about any of our derisory comments.
The
> article was lifted by whoever wari...@ahyudara.com is from the The
> University of Rhode Island web site's section on
> "The Coalition Against Trafficking in Women"
>
> http://www.uri.edu/artsci/wms/hughes/catw/phillips.htm
>
> It would be great to think she would hear what was said though!
>
> cheers
>
>
>
>
>
> "Chanchao" <Chan...@nym.alias.net> wrote in message
> news:2001060104292...@nym.alias.net...
> wari...@ahyudara.com (Warindoke Nanacha) wrote some stuff about "Sex
> Tourism
> in Thailand: A Traveller's Journal", to which I would like to add:
>
> >Sex Tourism in Thailand: A Traveller's Journal
>
> Sorry, could finish it.. While hilarious at times, so much drivel,
> stereotyping, racist and sexist comments then with some pseudo scientific
> quotes mixed in... Just a bit too much. I bet somone will write something
> some day and quote crap from THIS piece of work trying to sound credible..
>
> >Debby Phillips
> >West Yorkshire, UK
> >Copyright 1995
>
> That kinda explaines it.. We're 6 years on now and I think overall people
> are
> more sensible and less bigoted of the scene now.
>
> Cheers,
> Chanchao
>
>
>
OM
OM
From: "....Ken" <cha...@island.net>
Subject: 11 year old hooker !
Date: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 11:11 AM
Last week local police arrested two men and a woman who had kidnapped an
eleven year old girl and moved her over the border to hire her out as a
child prostitute. They managed to work her almost steadily for four days
using amphetamines and other drugs to keep her awake. Shop keepers, sex
tourists and neighbours did nothing to help the 11 year old.
Where did this occur....Bangkok, Jakarta, Phnom Penh ? No,
.............Vancouver, Canada
regards.....Ken
"Gulliver" <lunar...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:xBuS6.18082$US6.4...@news0.telusplanet.net...
Robert Hauger
They get new recruits every year.I'v been there several times th girls
are still finist kind.
ROBERT B.HAUGER
lang...@yta.attmil.ne.jp
girls enslaved in the cyber cafes and "forced" to write to as many as 20
men a day identical letters to send them $400-$1000 per month. You can see
this gratuitous abuse to these girls that these cyber cafes do to them
incessantly !!
And then there are those awful bars that force a girl to sit on some
greasy Brit's lap some afternoon while she dictates a letter of sorrow to
another guy about her loneliness to her real husband in Sweden.
And worst of all the governement actually forces many girls to wear
ounces and ounces of gold chains around their necks ankles and wrists from
the money connived from, oh excuse me, I mean forced to accept from those
awful Brits and Germans off in Europe exploiting the poor girls from 1000s
of miles away.
And last of all, it is absolutely incredulous how they are forced by
these awful Europeans to party down all night in their bars, forced to laugh
and drink, subjected to sleep in 100 dollar hotels rooms, and then forced to
accept only 100 times the amount they could be getting for working in leech
invested rice paddies in the 35 degree sun in Udorn Thani.
These same dreadful Europeans also make them remain against their will
in Pattaya or Nana Plaza even though their families are suffering and need
them so badly back in the Isaan.
The Brit lady here is right!! THIS KIND OF WANTON EXPLOITATION OF
THAI FEMALES MUST BE BROUGHT TO AN END !!!!! LOL
lang...@yta.attmil.ne.jp
ro...@invalid.domain.com
>> i always thought vancouver, bc, canada had some really attractive
>> girls.
> Indeed, vancouver has some really attractive girls. In fact, unbelievabley
> beautiful. (I can say that because vancouver is my home).
> BUT, you're missing the point. Thai women are not just attractive
> because they are physically beautiful; but because they have an
> attitude about their sexuality that men find very attractive. It's
> all in the attitude.
i agree. i think this attitude exists in all cultures. my personal
experience is that children of mixed races (usually black and white)
have this attitude (assuming we're talking about similar things) in
abundance.
unfortunately or fortunately, for me to evaluate a person's sexuality
requires a certain amount of intimacy which i simply don't feel unless
i am attracted to a person intellectually (and physically). rules out
most thai girls (who i do find physically attractive).
i think the attraction to thais lies in their charm. i find both the
boys and girls very charming.