water_engine.Cars running on water? Here's another group of scientists who say yes, it's possible. Researchers from the University of Minnesota and Israel's Weizman Institute of Science have figured out a way to use the element Boron to coax water into producing hydrogen gas. That, of course, is quite flammable and can be used to power an internal combustion engine or a fuel cell. And the only emission? Boron Oxide, which can be converted back into Boron and used again.
We've heard things like this before, to a hail of incredulous comments and cries of "bullshit!".
We've also heard of a guy in Australia who actually showed his water-powered scooter running on Australian TV but wouldn't reveal how it was done. And here it is again, and now they're saying we'll see a prototype by 2009. This seems too good to be true. Will the oil companies buy this out and kill it? Is this another fable, a la David Mamet's The Water Engine?
Water Engine for Real? Scientists Say H20-to-Hydrogen System Could Be Ready by Decade's End [Jalopnik]
> water_engine.Cars running on water? Here's another group of scientists > who say yes, it's possible. Researchers from the University of > Minnesota and Israel's Weizman Institute of Science have figured out a > way to use the element Boron to coax water into producing hydrogen gas. > That, of course, is quite flammable and can be used to power an > internal combustion engine or a fuel cell. And the only emission? Boron > Oxide, which can be converted back into Boron and used again.
> We've heard things like this before, to a hail of incredulous comments > and cries of "bullshit!".
> We've also heard of a guy in Australia who actually showed his > water-powered scooter running on Australian TV but wouldn't reveal how > it was done. And here it is again, and now they're saying we'll see a > prototype by 2009. This seems too good to be true. Will the oil > companies buy this out and kill it? Is this another fable, a la David > Mamet's The Water Engine?
> Water Engine for Real? Scientists Say H20-to-Hydrogen System Could Be > Ready by Decade's End [Jalopnik]
iz...@rock.com wrote: > Water-Powered Cars by 2009? Maybe.
> water_engine.Cars running on water? Here's another group of scientists > who say yes, it's possible. Researchers from the University of > Minnesota and Israel's Weizman Institute of Science have figured out a > way to use the element Boron to coax water into producing hydrogen gas. > That, of course, is quite flammable and can be used to power an > internal combustion engine or a fuel cell. And the only emission? Boron > Oxide, which can be converted back into Boron and used again.
> We've heard things like this before, to a hail of incredulous comments > and cries of "bullshit!".
> We've also heard of a guy in Australia who actually showed his > water-powered scooter running on Australian TV but wouldn't reveal how > it was done.
Because it was running on petrol.
> And here it is again, and now they're saying we'll see a > prototype by 2009. This seems too good to be true.
Maybe, though, they'll have something going by 2012. If so, they'll be putting boron in and taking B2O3 out.
That means it's running on boron. A good idea, but no violation of natural law.
The Wiki article says that calculations predict that a car carrying 18 kilograms of boron and 45 litres of water could produce 5 kilograms of hydrogen, the same energy content as a 40-litre tank of conventional fuel.The article also says that Crystalline boron (99%) costs about $5/g. Amorphous boron costs about $2/g, so one (40-litre conventional fuel) tank's worth equivalent of 18 kg of boron would cost $9,000.00 at $2/g.
After a drive to grandma's house, most of the boron would have been converted to B2O3. The paper you cite says that elemental boron is currently priced 23 to 400 times more for a pound without oxygen than for a pound with, so the B2O3 might be worth between $25 and $400, vs. the original $9000 cost of the 18kg of elemental boron. Processes exist for recovering elemental boron from B203; the cost of applying those processes would probably be roughly the difference in price between B2O3 and the elemental boron, plus a bit -- somewhere between $8500 and $9000, say. If service stations existed where B2O3 could be exchanged for elemental boron (one would not wish to remove his car from service and room with grandma while his boron charge was being recycled), the cost to make that exchange might be about $10,000 ($8500-$9000 plus a bit). That would be for the equivalent of filling a 40 litre tank with conventional fuel.
iz...@rock.com wrote: > Water-Powered Cars by 2009? Maybe.
> water_engine.Cars running on water? Here's another group of scientists > who say yes, it's possible. Researchers from the University of > Minnesota and Israel's Weizman Institute of Science have figured out a > way to use the element Boron to coax water into producing hydrogen gas. > That, of course, is quite flammable and can be used to power an > internal combustion engine or a fuel cell. And the only emission? Boron > Oxide, which can be converted back into Boron and used again.
At an energy cost far greater than the energy it produced to drive the car. Ever heard of "entropy"?
> We've heard things like this before, to a hail of incredulous comments > and cries of "bullshit!".
> water_engine.Cars running on water? Here's another group of scientists > who say yes, it's possible. Researchers from the University of > Minnesota and Israel's Weizman Institute of Science have figured out a > way to use the element Boron to coax water into producing hydrogen gas. > That, of course, is quite flammable and can be used to power an > internal combustion engine or a fuel cell. And the only emission? Boron > Oxide, which can be converted back into Boron and used again.
> We've heard things like this before, to a hail of incredulous comments > and cries of "bullshit!".
> We've also heard of a guy in Australia who actually showed his > water-powered scooter running on Australian TV but wouldn't reveal how > it was done. And here it is again, and now they're saying we'll see a > prototype by 2009. This seems too good to be true. Will the oil > companies buy this out and kill it? Is this another fable, a la David > Mamet's The Water Engine?
> Water Engine for Real? Scientists Say H20-to-Hydrogen System Could Be > Ready by Decade's End [Jalopnik]
> The Wiki article says that calculations predict that a car carrying 18 > kilograms of boron and 45 litres of water could produce 5 kilograms of > hydrogen, the same energy content as a 40-litre tank of conventional > fuel.The article also says that Crystalline boron (99%) costs about > $5/g. Amorphous boron costs about $2/g, so one (40-litre conventional > fuel) tank's worth equivalent of 18 kg of boron would cost $9,000.00 at > $2/g.
> After a drive to grandma's house, most of the boron would have been > converted to B2O3. The paper you cite says that elemental boron is > currently priced 23 to 400 times more for a pound without oxygen than > for a pound with, so the B2O3 might be worth between $25 and $400, vs. > the original $9000 cost of the 18kg of elemental boron. Processes > exist for recovering elemental boron from B203; the cost of applying > those processes would probably be roughly the difference in price > between B2O3 and the elemental boron, plus a bit -- somewhere between > $8500 and $9000, say. If service stations existed where B2O3 could be > exchanged for elemental boron (one would not wish to remove his car > from service and room with grandma while his boron charge was being > recycled), the cost to make that exchange might be about $10,000 > ($8500-$9000 plus a bit). That would be for the equivalent of filling > a 40 litre tank with conventional fuel.
For sure, deoxidation has to get cheaper. But supposing it never did, it's interesting to consider what a rich toy-buyer, think Jay Leno with his purchase a year or two ago of an electric, think it was a Li-ion electric, could get.
You mention service stations. But boron is more like aluminum than it is like gasoline. Along with the boron-burning car, the rich enthusiast could buy a lifetime supply of boron for it, ~100 sacks of pellets, and stack them at the back of his garage. If the garage burned down, the sacks might burn away and spill the pellets, but the pellets would still be good.
> iz...@rock.com wrote: >> Water-Powered Cars by 2009? Maybe.
>> water_engine.Cars running on water? Here's another group of scientists >> who say yes, it's possible. Researchers from the University of >> Minnesota and Israel's Weizman Institute of Science have figured out a >> way to use the element Boron to coax water into producing hydrogen gas. >> That, of course, is quite flammable and can be used to power an >> internal combustion engine or a fuel cell. And the only emission? Boron >> Oxide, which can be converted back into Boron and used again.
> At an energy cost far greater than the energy it produced to drive the > car. Ever heard of "entropy"?
The Law of Conservation of Energy would seem more relevant.
>> We've heard things like this before, to a hail of incredulous comments >> and cries of "bullshit!".
