SPAM attacks on Thai recently
Tchiowa
There certainly seems to be a plethora of attacks on the Thai people,
particularly Thai women, in this group recently. Most seem to come from
a small group of people who include the name "Anonymous" somewhere in
their titles.
It is my considered opinion that the source of these attacks is one of
three things:
Disgruntled jerks who made fools of themselves and want revenge, or
Other idiots who are simple posting flame bait, or
Representatives of anti-Thai organizations such as Dont!Buy!Thai!
First of all, Thailand is not perfect, nor is any other country.
However, most of the attacks posted recently are loaded with false
and/or misleading statements based on stereotypec that have little
bearing on reality.
I made the mistake of trying to argue once or twice until I realized
just what was going one. May I make the recommendation to regulars not
to respond to these posts so that the flame-baiters will go away?
Free World Traveller
Tchiowa <tchi...@HoTMaiL.com> writes: > There certainly seems to be a plethora of attacks on the Thai people,
If Thailand, just a any other third world country wants to pull itself out
of the muck and into the first world it needs desperately to develop a true
democracy whereby freedom of speech and expression are not suppressed. This
should include the internet and this newsgroup. Putting ones head in the
sand and pretending that the real issues aren't there isn't going to
discourage Thailand's critics. The Thais have all the potential to enter
into the first world if only they could overcome the arrogance that so
dominates their society. Sure be proud of your nation. I'm proud of mine,
but I see no value in trying to make out I'm perfect because I come from
the Land of Smiling people. I would love to return to Thailand knowing
full well I won't be arrested at the airport for having critisised the Thai
government or some aspect of the socio-economic policies for the day. As
a foreigner try getting fair and equal justic in Thailand. If a Thai comes
here to my country and commits a crime he is given free legal aid, bail
and unfortunately in many cases an opportunity to skip the country without
standing trial. In Thailand human rights are a joke. Ask any farang who
has been illegally detained because he / she has dared to question the
authorities or would not offer a big enough bribe. Face it, Thailand has
a lot to answer to and this forum gives us the opportunity to do so. Human
rights abuses are a world issue, not just with Thailand and a handful of
other countries that fit into the same category. Face the facts -if
Thailand wants first world status it needs to first demonstrate first world
principles, get itself into a true democracy and stop hoping the USA,
Australia and a number of other countries are going to help it out of it's
economic woes by covering up for the greedy and powerful in Thailand.
Tchoiwa go chew on this! No matter what you say Thailand can't continue on
90% praise and 10% constructive critique. If the heat is too much get out
of the kitchen as the saying goes.
Free World Traveller (maybe not in Thailand) - an endangered species.
Willow
Free World Traveler,
I agree totally with your remarks concerning Thailand. As earlier posted, I
had the misfortune to be arrested in Thailand - for a crime they said was
committed over one month prior to my arrival. The wonderful Thai police did
not even check my passport. Then is was a five year trial, with two appeals
of four years each. I was lucky to get out of the country.
After spending two years there, I love the arts and crafts, the architecture
and many of the customs. But a corrupt society that does not want to change
is no place for any sane person. The Thais simply want to ignore, not to
change. Unfortunately, the world is changing for all of us. Unless they
wish to remain an agricultural village, the Thais must change too.
i...@ix.netcom.com
We'll wait until our country goes bankrupt first
and then we'll change later.
YONG66
>From: i...@ix.netcom.com
>We'll wait until our country goes bankrupt first
>and then we'll change later.
There's no way that a country'll go bankruptcy. Yes, for
business sector but "no" for the government and the country.
Just discredited and delayed the time to pay off the debts.
i...@ix.netcom.com
yon...@aol.com (YONG66) wrote:
I just couldn't find a better term to describe a situation
when the government runs out of money and has no credit left
and has no way of repaying the debts.
I believe that South Korea's president-elect also used the
term "bankrupt" to mean the same thing when he said that he
doesn't know if his country will go bankrupt tomorrow or the
day after tomorrow.
nir...@notme.com
Willow wrote:
>I agree totally with your remarks concerning Thailand. As earlier posted, I
>had the misfortune to be arrested in Thailand - for a crime they said was
>committed over one month prior to my arrival. The wonderful Thai police did
>not even check my passport. Then is was a five year trial, with two appeals
>of four years each. I was lucky to get out of the country.
So, how much did you pay the wonderful Thai police to get out?
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
Tchiowa
Free World Traveller wrote:
>
> Tchiowa <tchi...@HoTMaiL.com> writes: > There certainly seems to be a plethora of attacks on the Thai people,
> > particularly Thai women, in this group recently. Most seem to come from
> > a small group of people who include the name "Anonymous" somewhere in
> > their titles.
> >
> > It is my considered opinion that the source of these attacks is one of
> > three things:
> >
> > Disgruntled jerks who made fools of themselves and want revenge, or
> >
> > Other idiots who are simple posting flame bait, or
> >
> > Representatives of anti-Thai organizations such as Dont!Buy!Thai!
> >
> > First of all, Thailand is not perfect, nor is any other country.
> >
> > However, most of the attacks posted recently are loaded with false
> > and/or misleading statements based on stereotypec that have little
> > bearing on reality.
> >
> > I made the mistake of trying to argue once or twice until I realized
> > just what was going one. May I make the recommendation to regulars not
> > to respond to these posts so that the flame-baiters will go away?
>
> If Thailand, just a any other third world country wants to pull itself out
> of the muck and into the first world it needs desperately to develop a true
> democracy whereby freedom of speech and expression are not suppressed.
Other than the lese majeste laws, Thailand has complete freedom of
speech and expression.
> This
> should include the internet and this newsgroup. Putting ones head in the
> sand and pretending that the real issues aren't there isn't going to
> discourage Thailand's critics.
But inventing or grossly exagerating problems doesn't make them real.
And challenging the accuracy of statements is not putting ones head in
the sand.
> The Thais have all the potential to enter
> into the first world if only they could overcome the arrogance that so
> dominates their society.
Arrogance? The Thai are proud, as are other people. Arrogant? No.
> Sure be proud of your nation. I'm proud of mine,
> but I see no value in trying to make out I'm perfect because I come from
> the Land of Smiling people.
Did you read my post? I said specifically that Thailand was not perfect.
But that doesn't mean that wild fantasy and deliberately false and
malicious postings are true.
> I would love to return to Thailand knowing
> full well I won't be arrested at the airport for having critisised the Thai
> government or some aspect of the socio-economic policies for the day.
As long as it wasn't a member of the royal family that you criticized,
you can. But that law also applies to Thai people (and is actually
enforced much more stringently against Thai than non-Thai).
> As
> a foreigner try getting fair and equal justic in Thailand. If a Thai comes
> here to my country and commits a crime he is given free legal aid, bail
> and unfortunately in many cases an opportunity to skip the country without
> standing trial. In Thailand human rights are a joke. Ask any farang who
> has been illegally detained because he / she has dared to question the
> authorities or would not offer a big enough bribe.
Name the person that that has happened to. Everyone seems to know
someone who knows someone who met someone who heard about that
happening. Name the person that it actually happened to. All those that
I've heard claim that it happened to actually committed a real crime and
are claiming violation of human rights in order to avoid prosecution.
> Face it, Thailand has
> a lot to answer to and this forum gives us the opportunity to do so. Human
> rights abuses are a world issue, not just with Thailand and a handful of
> other countries that fit into the same category. Face the facts -if
> Thailand wants first world status it needs to first demonstrate first world
> principles, get itself into a true democracy and stop hoping the USA,
> Australia and a number of other countries are going to help it out of it's
> economic woes by covering up for the greedy and powerful in Thailand.
> Tchoiwa go chew on this! No matter what you say Thailand can't continue on
> 90% praise and 10% constructive critique. If the heat is too much get out
> of the kitchen as the saying goes.
If the heat is fair, I'll happily accept it. Most of what's been posted
lately is not. Again, it's largely promulgated by D!B!T!
Willow
You said to name someone "name the person it happened to" - well, how about
me.
I suffered enough in Thailand to make a movie. I have set this story out
elsewhere, but if you want more details, please contact me at
wil...@silk.net .
BUT, this is not just because you are curious. If you are a lawyer,
journalist, professor or someone who can use the information, fine. Case
numbers, trail dates, all the goodies. As long as you use the information.
Otherwise, just take it on faith. The Thai justice system is rotten and
primitive, by normal standards of the west. I am sure you don't believe the
police to be paragons of virtue, but if you do look to the Bangkok "Post" -
a special several weeks ago, and "Corruption in Thai Politics" available at
Asia Books, which has a chapter on the police.
Defend something valuable, not something bad. Take up the cause of Thai
architecture, which can be very good...
Willow
Tchiowa wrote...
Other than the lese majeste laws, Thailand has complete freedom of
speech and expression.
O.K. Tchiowa, stand outside of the World Trade Center (or some other place)
on a busy day, with pamphlets stating that the police are crooked, or the
military take bribes. Like, things that all know are correct (unless all
the Mercedes in front of the police stations and military bases are just
there for testing). How long? You may last for a while that day, but
somehow I think that you would not find your way home that night...
As to the royal, if Princes Charles and Diana were in Thailand, nobody would
have been able to say anything...
Give us a break - accept some of the faults, look for solutions, present
options. Don't just use the Thai trick of saying "it is not so" when the
sky really is blue...
Tchiowa
Actually there was a guy there last week when I was in Bangkok (a
farang) protesting because he thought he was ripped off by the 2000 baht
littering fine. He was holding a sign accusing the police of ripping him
off. He was there for at least 2 days that I know of.
Tchiowa
Willow wrote:
>
> You said to name someone "name the person it happened to" - well, how about
> me.
>
> I suffered enough in Thailand to make a movie. I have set this story out
> elsewhere, but if you want more details, please contact me at
> wil...@silk.net .
>
> BUT, this is not just because you are curious. If you are a lawyer,
> journalist, professor or someone who can use the information, fine. Case
> numbers, trail dates, all the goodies. As long as you use the information.
>
> Otherwise, just take it on faith. The Thai justice system is rotten and
> primitive, by normal standards of the west. I am sure you don't believe the
> police to be paragons of virtue, but if you do look to the Bangkok "Post" -
> a special several weeks ago, and "Corruption in Thai Politics" available at
> Asia Books, which has a chapter on the police.
Is the Thai system different that the US? Of course it is. Is it
perfect? Of course it's not. Is there corruption in politics? Widely
known and reported. But we're talking about posts about how Thai in
general rip people off. As an example there was a posting about how if
you marry a Thai her family will rip you off. Some bozos apparently
don't know enough about Thai culture to understand the ties that exist
in a family and the obligations that go with them. Because you or
someone doesn't understand a culture doesn't make that culture bad.
As far as legal problems, I've seen and read dozens of westerners
complaining about their experience. Bottom line in every case was that
the westerner broke a law and didn't like the way he was punished. I can
assure you that Charles Manson isn't overly fond of the US justice
system.
Tchiowa
end...@netcomuk.co.uk wrote:
>
> On Sun, 11 Jan 1998 05:12:03 -0800, Tchiowa <tchi...@HoTMaiL.com>
> wrote:
>
> >Is the Thai system different that the US? Of course it is. Is it
> >perfect? Of course it's not. Is there corruption in politics? Widely
> >known and reported. But we're talking about posts about how Thai in
> >general rip people off. As an example there was a posting about how if
> >you marry a Thai her family will rip you off. Some bozos apparently
> >don't know enough about Thai culture to understand the ties that exist
> >in a family and the obligations that go with them. Because you or
> >someone doesn't understand a culture doesn't make that culture bad.
>
> He had a job with an oil company, worked in the Gulf of Siam and lived
> in BKK. He had a Thai wife and his pay went to supporting the usual
> squadrons of uncles, aunties and other relatives. He lost his job and
> all those uncles, aunties and other relatives did what all Thai
> families do. They turned right round and supported him because he was
> a member of the family.
That's exactly right. It's part of the Thai and Buddhist culture.
Tchiowa
end...@netcomuk.co.uk wrote:
>
> On Sun, 11 Jan 1998 17:35:52 GMT, cheapcharl...@bigfoot.com
> (Cheap Charly) wrote:
>
> >On Sun, 11 Jan 1998 08:01:28 -0800, Tchiowa <tchi...@HoTMaiL.com>
> >wrote:
> >never have it been possibly to verify.
> >A Thai family supporting a falang !!!!!!!!!
> >Yes, a week or two but......... No way.
> >One thing is sure; if you are born as a falang
> >you will die as a falang.
>
> If you re-read my post, you will see that the man to whom this
> happened actually posted his experience on sct.
Further, my wife's family has fully accepted me as part of the family.
Am I still a farang? Of course. But that doesn't stop me from being part
of the family.