What other choice does he has?

[AleXXŽ]

This blind dissident have two choice. Bundle up with his families and go
stay in America or permanently camp inside the US embassy in Beijing.

He can pack up and go to US with Mrs. Hillary KeklingToon
http://www.asiaone.com/News/Latest%2BNews/World/Story/A1Story20120502-343322.html

[rst7]

On May 2, 1:15 am, "AleXX®" <cir...@cycle.net> wrote:
> This blind dissident have two choice. Bundle up with his families and go
> stay in America or permanently camp inside the US embassy in Beijing.
>

> He can pack up and go to US with Mrs. Hillary KeklingToonhttp://www.asiaone.com/News/Latest%2BNews/World/Story/A1Story20120502...

I'd prefer he and his family immigrate to live in the U.S. Let him
find how hard it is to make a living in the U.S.

[TheInquirer]

On 2/05/2012 4:15 PM, AleXXŽ wrote:
> This blind dissident have two choice. Bundle up with his families and go
> stay in America or permanently camp inside the US embassy in Beijing.
>
> He can pack up and go to US with Mrs. Hillary KeklingToon

KeklingToon? your speling correct or not?

( http://bit.ly/hsbOrU )


> http://www.asiaone.com/News/Latest%2BNews/World/Story/A1Story20120502-343322.html



--
I ask, becos I'm curious.

[ltl...@hotmail.com]

On May 2, 4:15 am, "AleXX®" <cir...@cycle.net> wrote:
> This blind dissident have two choice. Bundle up with his families and go
> stay in America or permanently camp inside the US embassy in Beijing.
>

> He can pack up and go to US with Mrs. Hillary KeklingToonhttp://www.asiaone.com/News/Latest%2BNews/World/Story/A1Story20120502...

The US does not want him. He was forced to leave the US "voluntarily."

"Hours later, however, a shaken Chen told The Associated Press in a
telephone
interview from his hospital room that U.S. officials told him the
Chinese authorities
would have sent his family back to his home province if he remained
inside the
embassy. He added that, at one point, the U.S. officials told him his
wife would
have been beaten to death."
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_CHINA_BLIND_LAWYER?

[baldeagle]

On May 3, 3:29 am, "ltl...@hotmail.com" <ltl...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On May 2, 4:15 am, "AleXX®" <cir...@cycle.net> wrote:
>

.> > This blind dissident have two choice. Bundle up with his
.> > families and go stay in America or permanently camp
.> > inside the US embassy in Beijing.

>
.> The US does not want him. He was forced to leave the
.> US "voluntarily."

You are right... Blind Chen and his activist friends (including
the US embassy) went through a lot...to arrange for his
escape from detention and to hide him in the US embassy.
Chen hope to be given asylum in the USA. This would be
seen as a victory for human rights, for the USA. ..a major
embarrassment for China.

The USA is wrong to interfere, in the name of human rights,
into China's domestic affair...Blind Chen committed a crime
and he was punished...he was under house arrest. The USA
forgot that China is a sovereign country...not a subject of
the USA.
China had to apply irresistible force...on the USA...to release
blind Chen and after 5 days...broke the USA.

Now, the USA is forced to eat humble pie....had to deny Chen
asylum ...and force him to leave the US embassy. The US
ambassador is seen personally escorting him to the hospital
to show the world that Chen was not harmed.

The Chinese has now to provide even more security for
him and his family...in order to prevent US activist/provocateurs
from killing him...to shut him up ..(to stop him from telling the
world
how he was cheated of the promised asylum..and dumped.. A very
bad publicity for the USA)..
If the truth is known to the world...it would reflect badly the on
the
USA. Also, killing him and blaming his death on China... would
create social unrest in China...achieving the goal of the human
rights activists and the USA. Blind Chen life is in real danger now.

This is a good lesson for those blind human rights activists
in China....they are playing with fire...which can burn them badly..
or even get killed by their so called activist friends.

[bmo...@nyx.net]

On May 2, 12:29 pm, "ltl...@hotmail.com" <ltl...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On May 2, 4:15 am, "AleXX®" <cir...@cycle.net> wrote:
>
> > This blind dissident have two choice. Bundle up with his families and go
> > stay in America or permanently camp inside the US embassy in Beijing.
>
> > He can pack up and go to US with Mrs. Hillary KeklingToonhttp://www.asiaone.com/News/Latest%2BNews/World/Story/A1Story20120502...
>
> The US does not want him. He was forced to leave the US "voluntarily."

The US would be glad to take him, except that the 300 pound baby known
as the CCP would start kicking and screaming.

[TheInquirer]

On 3/05/2012 6:04 AM, baldeagle wrote:
> On May 3, 3:29 am, "ltl...@hotmail.com"<ltl...@hotmail.com> wrote:

isn't it good to have Russia, China, Iran, and N Korea maddafakkas to
counter-balance the USA maddafakkas?

[baldeagle]

On May 3, 6:38 am, TheInquirer <alw...@ask.questions> wrote:
> On 3/05/2012 6:04 AM, baldeagle wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 3, 3:29 am, "ltl...@hotmail.com"<ltl...@hotmail.com>  wrote:

> >> On May 2, 4:15 am, "AleXX®"<cir...@cycle.net>  wrote:

It is bad....for the world...it create unhappiness for
people everywhere. it is unhealthy.
It will be better...if the USA, Russia, China, Europe
and everyone else to be friends and to work together
to create a better world for all of us.

[bmo...@nyx.net]

On May 2, 3:04 pm, baldeagle <force....@gmail.com> wrote:
> Also, killing him and blaming his death on China... would
> create social unrest in China...achieving the goal of the human
> rights activists and the USA.  Blind Chen life is in real danger now.
>
> This is a good lesson for those blind  human rights activists
> in China....they are playing with fire...which can burn them badly..
> or even get killed by their so called activist friends.

Really beagle? You think that the people most likely to do bad things
to Chen are his activist friends or the USA. I'm pretty sure he has a
whole lot more to fear from the Chinese government. You know, the
folks who have repeatedly beaten him and his wife, thrown them in
jail, etc.

But you fool apologists for the CCP always accuse others of doing
precisely what the CCP does, with no regard for the reality of the
situation.

[bmo...@nyx.net]

On May 2, 3:38 pm, TheInquirer <alw...@ask.questions> wrote:
> On 3/05/2012 6:04 AM, baldeagle wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 3, 3:29 am, "ltl...@hotmail.com"<ltl...@hotmail.com>  wrote:

> >> On May 2, 4:15 am, "AleXX®"<cir...@cycle.net>  wrote:

I'd prefer that all of the governments start behaving a lot more
reasonably, but the Iranians and North Koreans are particularly nuts.
It's not good to have them in the picture. Russia, China and the US
can be worked with, but Iran and North Korea are very untrustworthy
compared to the others.

[baldeagle]

On May 3, 7:46 am, "bmo...@nyx.net" <bmo...@nyx.net> wrote:
> On May 2, 3:04 pm, baldeagle <force....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Also, killing him and blaming his death on China... would
> > create social unrest in China...achieving the goal of the human
> > rights activists and the USA.  Blind Chen life is in real danger now.
>
> > This is a good lesson for those blind  human rights activists
> > in China....they are playing with fire...which can burn them badly..
> > or even get killed by their so called activist friends.
>
> Really beagle?

Of course.

The rest are garbage, deleted.

[ltl...@hotmail.com]

I don't think the US would kill Chen. I do agree that Chen would be
safer in China. China does not have a tradition of killing human
rights
workers, the US did. have such history. For instance, many believe
the
FBI was behind the assassination of MLK.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYOWbTAE_Bg

[baldeagle]

.> I don't think the US would kill Chen.

The USA would not openly kill Chen...but covertly, the CIA
has done so often...usually to advance the US agenda
of regime change.
(The killing of protesters during the student demo in
Jakarta, in Egypt and in other places...to incite mob frency
which toppled the govt...is a CIA modus operandi )

There is good reasons why Chen's death would serve
US interests. It will stop him from exposing what happened
exactly in the US embassy ...and it will also create an
an excuse for US activists to call for demo and riots...to
start an Arab spring in China.

Blind Chen is in mortal danger...from the people he
idolized.

For this reason....it is important that China provide
added security measure to guard Chen.


.> I do agree that Chen would be safer in China. China
.> does not have a tradition of killing human rights workers,
.> the US did. have such history. For instance, many believe

[rst7]

On May 2, 3:22 pm, "bmo...@nyx.net" <bmo...@nyx.net> wrote:
> On May 2, 12:29 pm, "ltl...@hotmail.com" <ltl...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > The US does not want him. He was forced to leave the US "voluntarily."
>
> The US would be glad to take him, except that the 300 pound baby known
> as the CCP would start kicking and screaming.

Why would China want him? He's nothing but trouble. The faster
they got rid of him, the better off they are.

The U.S. realized he can not take care of himself and his family,
and he would be a burden and a liability for the U.S. My take is:
The U.S. doesn't want him.

[rst7]

If you are really being opened and fair-minded, you know the world
trouble-makers are the U.S. and Israel, not Iran and North Korea.

> It's not good to have them in the picture. Russia, China and the US
> can be worked with, but Iran and North Korea are very untrustworthy
> compared to the others.

You got it all wrong. The U.S. and Israel are the most
untrustworthy. Iran and N. Korea are doing all they can to protect
themselves.

[baldeagle]

change your nick asshole.

[TheInquirer]

On 3/05/2012 7:49 AM, bmo...@nyx.net wrote:
> On May 2, 3:38 pm, TheInquirer<alw...@ask.questions> wrote:
>> On 3/05/2012 6:04 AM, baldeagle wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On May 3, 3:29 am, "ltl...@hotmail.com"<ltl...@hotmail.com> wrote:

have you considered looking at things from their point of view?

have you considered how the American maddafakkas (esp. the government
and CIA) appear from Iranian and North Korean point of view?

> It's not good to have them in the picture. Russia, China and the US
> can be worked with, but Iran and North Korea are very untrustworthy
> compared to the others.

[TheInquirer]

On 3/05/2012 7:46 AM, bmo...@nyx.net wrote:
> On May 2, 3:04 pm, baldeagle<force....@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Also, killing him and blaming his death on China... would
>> create social unrest in China...achieving the goal of the human
>> rights activists and the USA. Blind Chen life is in real danger now.
>>
>> This is a good lesson for those blind human rights activists
>> in China....they are playing with fire...which can burn them badly..
>> or even get killed by their so called activist friends.
>
> Really beagle? You think that the people most likely to do bad things
> to Chen are his activist friends or the USA.

what is "bad"? what is "good"?

have you seen spy vs spy? http://youtu.be/8dNxK_wslqo

;-)

I'm pretty sure he has a
> whole lot more to fear from the Chinese government. You know, the
> folks who have repeatedly beaten him and his wife, thrown them in
> jail, etc.
>
> But you fool apologists for the CCP always accuse others of doing

is beagle an apologist for the CCP?

> precisely what the CCP does, with no regard for the reality of the
> situation.
>
>

[TheInquirer]

why the rest is garbage?

[TheInquirer]

maybe the US wants him ... as c6 pawn?

http://youtu.be/68pFrM0J-aU

[bmo...@nyx.net]

On May 2, 10:31 pm, TheInquirer <alw...@ask.questions> wrote:
> On 3/05/2012 10:39 AM, rst7 wrote:
>
> > On May 2, 3:22 pm, "bmo...@nyx.net"<bmo...@nyx.net>  wrote:
> >> On May 2, 12:29 pm, "ltl...@hotmail.com"<ltl...@hotmail.com>  wrote:
>
> >>> The US does not want him. He was forced to leave the US "voluntarily."
>
> >> The US would be glad to take him, except that the 300 pound baby known
> >> as the CCP would start kicking and screaming.
>
> > Why would China want him?  He's nothing but trouble.  The faster
> > they got rid of him, the better off they are.
>
> > The U.S. realized he can not take care of himself and his family,
> > and he would be a burden and a liability for the U.S.

That's wrong. An intelligent blind Chinese self-taught lawyer who has
made a career out of opposing forced abortions would have no problem
getting by in the US. To say otherwise is ignorant and/or agenda-
driven.

> My take is:
> > The U.S. doesn't want him.
>
> maybe the US wants him ... as c6 pawn?
>
>      http://youtu.be/68pFrM0J-aU

He is partially a pawn in the game, yes, but there is also a lot of
legitimate sympathy for him here in the US.

[TheInquirer]

On 3/05/2012 3:42 PM, bmo...@nyx.net wrote:
> On May 2, 10:31 pm, TheInquirer<alw...@ask.questions> wrote:
>> On 3/05/2012 10:39 AM, rst7 wrote:
>>
>>> On May 2, 3:22 pm, "bmo...@nyx.net"<bmo...@nyx.net> wrote:
>>>> On May 2, 12:29 pm, "ltl...@hotmail.com"<ltl...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>> The US does not want him. He was forced to leave the US "voluntarily."
>>
>>>> The US would be glad to take him, except that the 300 pound baby known
>>>> as the CCP would start kicking and screaming.
>>
>>> Why would China want him? He's nothing but trouble. The faster
>>> they got rid of him, the better off they are.
>>
>>> The U.S. realized he can not take care of himself and his family,
>>> and he would be a burden and a liability for the U.S.
>
> That's wrong. An intelligent blind Chinese self-taught lawyer who has
> made a career out of opposing forced abortions would have no problem
> getting by in the US. To say otherwise is ignorant and/or agenda-
> driven.

erm ... "blind" means visually blind or metaphorically blind?

>
>> My take is:
>>> The U.S. doesn't want him.
>>
>> maybe the US wants him ... as c6 pawn?
>>
>> http://youtu.be/68pFrM0J-aU
>
> He is partially a pawn in the game, yes, but there is also a lot of
> legitimate sympathy for him here in the US.

remember in that chess game, after the prawn is gone, it gives an open
file for the rook and in combination with the long-diagonal Bishop, it
affords a combined attack on the b2 square? what strategic advantages
does it bring to sacrifice him? Tibet? more "human rights" crap?

[rst7]

On May 3, 12:42 am, "bmo...@nyx.net" <bmo...@nyx.net> wrote:
> On May 2, 10:31 pm, TheInquirer <alw...@ask.questions> wrote:
>
> > On 3/05/2012 10:39 AM, rst7 wrote:
> That's wrong. An intelligent blind Chinese self-taught
> lawyer who has made a career out of opposing forced
> abortions would have no problem getting by in the US.

How? Can he speak English fluently? Can he do anything at all to
support himself and/or his family in the U.S.? Fang Lizhi, an
astrophysicist, taught advanced Chinese at the University of Arizona.
How many students at the University of Arizona would take an advanced
class in Chinese? His own wife went back to China and he died alone
in Tucson.

> To say otherwise is ignorant and/or agenda-driven.

True, very true. And you have proven it to be true. That is how
"ignorant and agenda driven" you are.

[TheInquirer]

On 4/05/2012 12:03 AM, rst7 wrote:
> On May 3, 12:42 am, "bmo...@nyx.net"<bmo...@nyx.net> wrote:
>> On May 2, 10:31 pm, TheInquirer<alw...@ask.questions> wrote:
>>
>>> On 3/05/2012 10:39 AM, rst7 wrote:
>> That's wrong. An intelligent blind Chinese self-taught
>> lawyer who has made a career out of opposing forced
>> abortions would have no problem getting by in the US.
>
> How? Can he speak English fluently? Can he do anything at all to
> support himself and/or his family in the U.S.? Fang Lizhi, an
> astrophysicist, taught advanced Chinese at the University of Arizona.
> How many students at the University of Arizona would take an advanced
> class in Chinese? His own wife went back to China and he died alone
> in Tucson.

why can't Chen 吃皇家饭 ("eat Royal rice") in the U.S.?

or: The Fed prints money, Fedex to him to have him fed. no?

[bmo...@nyx.net]

I'm sure an intelligent person like Chen would find a way. He would
learn English much better than many of the Chinese immigrants who
never quite get it down. Plus he has lots of supporters.

[bmo...@nyx.net]

'cause little beagle has nothing else to say

[rst7]

On May 3, 9:37 am, TheInquirer <alw...@ask.questions> wrote:

Maybe the U.S. has come to its senses. Too many free-loaders to feed.

[rst7]

On May 3, 10:00 am, "bmo...@nyx.net" <bmo...@nyx.net> wrote:
> On May 3, 9:37 am, TheInquirer <alw...@ask.questions> wrote:
> > why can't Chen 吃皇家饭 ("eat Royal rice") in the U.S.?
>
> > or: The Fed prints money, Fedex to him to have him fed.  no?
>
> I'm sure an intelligent person like Chen would find a way.

If he's intelligent, he wouldn't be in a situation as it is today.

> He would learn English much better than many of the Chinese
> immigrants who never quite get it down.

Some learn, others never learn.

> Plus he has lots of supporters.

Lip supporters, when it comes to money, you'll find no one around.

[bmo...@nyx.net]

On May 2, 10:09 pm, TheInquirer <alw...@ask.questions> wrote:
> On 3/05/2012 7:49 AM, bmo...@nyx.net wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 2, 3:38 pm, TheInquirer<alw...@ask.questions>  wrote:
> >> On 3/05/2012 6:04 AM, baldeagle wrote:
>
> >>> On May 3, 3:29 am, "ltl...@hotmail.com"<ltl...@hotmail.com>    wrote:

> >>>> On May 2, 4:15 am, "AleXX®"<cir...@cycle.net>    wrote:

Yes. They're not realistic. When asked about his golf score, Kim Jong
Il used to say that it was 18 - a hole in one on every hole. The
Iranian president denies that the Holocaust happened.

[bmo...@nyx.net]

On May 2, 10:13 pm, TheInquirer <alw...@ask.questions> wrote:
> On 3/05/2012 7:46 AM, bmo...@nyx.net wrote:
>
> > On May 2, 3:04 pm, baldeagle<force....@gmail.com>  wrote:
> >> Also, killing him and blaming his death on China... would
> >> create social unrest in China...achieving the goal of the human
> >> rights activists and the USA.  Blind Chen life is in real danger now.
>
> >> This is a good lesson for those blind  human rights activists
> >> in China....they are playing with fire...which can burn them badly..
> >> or even get killed by their so called activist friends.
>
> > Really beagle? You think that the people most likely to do bad things
> > to Chen are his activist friends or the USA.
>
> what is "bad"?  what is "good"?

Well, getting beaten up is bad, especially if you don't deserve it.

> have you seen spy vs spy?  http://youtu.be/8dNxK_wslqo

Mad Magazine rules!

> ;-)
>
> I'm pretty sure he has a
>
> > whole lot more to fear from the Chinese government. You know, the
> > folks who have repeatedly beaten him and his wife, thrown them in
> > jail, etc.
>
> > But you fool apologists for the CCP always accuse others of doing
>
> is beagle an apologist for the CCP?

Oh yeah.

[bmo...@nyx.net]

On May 3, 8:36 am, TheInquirer <alw...@ask.questions> wrote:
> On 3/05/2012 3:42 PM, bmo...@nyx.net wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 2, 10:31 pm, TheInquirer<alw...@ask.questions>  wrote:
> >> On 3/05/2012 10:39 AM, rst7 wrote:
>
> >>> On May 2, 3:22 pm, "bmo...@nyx.net"<bmo...@nyx.net>    wrote:
> >>>> On May 2, 12:29 pm, "ltl...@hotmail.com"<ltl...@hotmail.com>    wrote:
>
> >>>>> The US does not want him. He was forced to leave the US "voluntarily."
>
> >>>> The US would be glad to take him, except that the 300 pound baby known
> >>>> as the CCP would start kicking and screaming.
>
> >>> Why would China want him?  He's nothing but trouble.  The faster
> >>> they got rid of him, the better off they are.
>
> >>> The U.S. realized he can not take care of himself and his family,
> >>> and he would be a burden and a liability for the U.S.
>
> > That's wrong. An intelligent blind Chinese self-taught lawyer who has
> > made a career out of opposing forced abortions would have no problem
> > getting by in the US. To say otherwise is ignorant and/or agenda-
> > driven.
>
> erm ... "blind" means visually blind or metaphorically blind?

visually

> >> My take is:
> >>> The U.S. doesn't want him.
>
> >> maybe the US wants him ... as c6 pawn?
>
> >>      http://youtu.be/68pFrM0J-aU
>
> > He is partially a pawn in the game, yes, but there is also a lot of
> > legitimate sympathy for him here in the US.
>
> remember in that chess game, after the prawn is gone, it gives an open
> file for the rook and in combination with the long-diagonal Bishop, it
> affords a combined attack on the b2 square?  what strategic advantages
> does it bring to sacrifice him?  Tibet?  more "human rights" crap?

Human rights are often politicized, but there is legitimacy too. Would
you want someone to come knocking on your door because you criticized
someone on Usenet?

[bmo...@nyx.net]

You crack me up, LT.

> China does not have a tradition of killing human
> rights
> workers, the US did. have such history. For instance, many believe
> the
> FBI was behind the assassination of MLK.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYOWbTAE_Bg

Yes, compared to the US, China has a rich history of tolerating
dissent.

You crack me up, LT.

[rst7]

Trouble makers are NOT tolerated in any country, not only China.

[TheInquirer]

On 4/05/2012 1:03 AM, bmo...@nyx.net wrote:
> On May 2, 10:09 pm, TheInquirer<alw...@ask.questions> wrote:

....

>> have you considered looking at things from their point of view?
>>
>> have you considered how the American maddafakkas (esp. the government
>> and CIA) appear from Iranian and North Korean point of view?
>


> Yes. They're not realistic.

so this is a point of view of ... you from their point of view
or is this a point of view from your point of view of your point of view
of them? i'm a little confused here.

When asked about his golf score, Kim Jong
> Il used to say that it was 18 - a hole in one on every hole.

a hole in one on every hole is not possible?

The
> Iranian president denies that the Holocaust happened.

what if the Holocaust never really happened? truth is socially
constructed, right? history is written by the victors, right?

what about the Red Indian holocaust, and the Australian Aborigine
holocaust? why nobody seems to talk about them?

[TheInquirer]

maybe he's just a sentimental pacifist? maybe he just has a naive view
of reality, in which the Darwinian rule of the jungle applies?

[ one thing i could never figure out is: in real geopolitick, the rule
of the jungle applies de facto (i.e. who has the better guns is boss),
but why do we still have the "United" Nations? ]

you know ... what makes you think that the CCP would view Baldeagle
in high regard just because he (from another country) has yellow
feathers, if they don't treat their yellow-feathered birds from the same
country well?

so is the proposition that beagle an apologist for the CCP really credible?

[TheInquirer]

On 4/05/2012 1:26 AM, bmo...@nyx.net wrote:
> On May 2, 5:27 pm, "ltl...@hotmail.com"<ltl...@hotmail.com> wrote:

...

> Yes, compared to the US, China has a rich history of tolerating
> dissent.
>
> You crack me up, LT.

maybe both sides do it differently? In China, the PLA sprays bullets
to kill many people, but in the USA, they just get the CIA to get rid of
some people with some "accident" ... and why does the words "swine" and
"bay" keep computing in my algorithms ... ?

[TheInquirer]

On 4/05/2012 1:10 AM, bmo...@nyx.net wrote:
...

Would
> you want someone to come knocking on your door because you criticized
> someone on Usenet?

which brings the question: do human beings really have free-will?

maybe you think you have freedom, but McDonald's and the media are
really the ones in control ... of your mind?

[TheInquirer]

yes, but the Fed has the money printer! the printer is magic, like the
goose that lays golden eggs, right?

[bmo...@nyx.net]

On May 3, 12:10 pm, TheInquirer <alw...@ask.questions> wrote:
> On 4/05/2012 1:24 AM, bmo...@nyx.net wrote:
>
> > On May 2, 10:13 pm, TheInquirer<alw...@ask.questions>  wrote:
> >> is beagle an apologist for the CCP?
>
> > Oh yeah.
>
> maybe he's just a sentimental pacifist?  maybe he just has a naive view
> of reality, in which the Darwinian rule of the jungle applies?

Go back and look at his posting history. His mantra is clearly (to me)
China good, US bad.

> [ one thing i could never figure out is: in real geopolitick, the rule
> of the jungle applies de facto (i.e. who has the better guns is boss),
> but why do we still have the "United" Nations? ]

To try to get away from that. Sometimes successfully, oftentimes, not.

> you know ... what makes you think that the CCP would view Baldeagle
> in high regard just because he (from another country) has yellow
> feathers, if they don't treat their yellow-feathered birds from the same
> country well?

The fact that he is an apologist does not mean that the CCP would hold
him in high regard. *He* holds the CCP in high regard.

> so is the proposition that beagle an apologist for the CCP really credible?

Yes, in my view.

[bmo...@nyx.net]

On May 3, 12:02 pm, TheInquirer <alw...@ask.questions> wrote:
> On 4/05/2012 1:03 AM, bmo...@nyx.net wrote:
>
> > On May 2, 10:09 pm, TheInquirer<alw...@ask.questions>  wrote:
> ....
> >> have you considered looking at things from their point of view?
>
> >> have you considered how the American maddafakkas (esp. the government
> >> and CIA) appear from Iranian and North Korean point of view?
>
> > Yes. They're not realistic.
>
> so this is a point of view of ... you from their point of view
> or is this a point of view from your point of view of your point of view
> of them?  i'm a little confused here.

My POV is that they are crazy, so their POV is invalid.

> When asked about his golf score, Kim Jong
>
> > Il used to say that it was 18 - a hole in one on every hole.
>
> a hole in one on every hole is not possible?

Every time? No one in the history of golf has had a hole in one on
every hole.

> The
>
> > Iranian president denies that the Holocaust happened.
>
> what if the Holocaust never really happened?

You could say that about anything. Japan never really tried to
subjugate Asia. The Rape of Nanking is a myth.

I am certain that both the Holocaust and the Rape of Nanking really
happened.

> truth is socially
> constructed, right?  history is written by the victors, right?

There is still a real history of what really happened, even if it is
elusive. There is a real truth that reasonable people (if any exist)
could agree on. All the revisionism is post-processing distortion.

> what about the Red Indian holocaust, and the Australian Aborigine
> holocaust?  why nobody seems to talk about them?

Maybe because they were further in the past. They were bad, too.

Anyway, some governments are crazy, and they are very hard to deal
with.

[bmo...@nyx.net]

Bay of Pigs was an attempt to get Cuba back from Castro. Not really
related to allowing dissent in the US.

The CIA certainly has played some games, but by any objective standard
the US allows dissent much more than China does.

[bmo...@nyx.net]

On May 3, 12:17 pm, TheInquirer <alw...@ask.questions> wrote:
> On 4/05/2012 1:10 AM, bmo...@nyx.net wrote:
> ...
>   Would
>
> > you want someone to come knocking on your door because you criticized
> > someone on Usenet?
>
> which brings the question: do human beings really have free-will?

Yes, but you need to free your mind to exercise it well.

> maybe you think you have freedom, but McDonald's and the media are
> really the ones in control ... of your mind?

If you are in control of your mind, you already know the answer to
that.

[rst7]

On May 3, 2:32 pm, "bmo...@nyx.net" <bmo...@nyx.net> wrote:
> On May 3, 12:02 pm, TheInquirer <alw...@ask.questions> wrote:
>
> > On 4/05/2012 1:03 AM, bmo...@nyx.net wrote:
>
> > > On May 2, 10:09 pm, TheInquirer<alw...@ask.questions>  wrote:
> > ....
> > >> have you considered looking at things from their point of view?
>
> > >> have you considered how the American maddafakkas (esp. the government
> > >> and CIA) appear from Iranian and North Korean point of view?
>
> > > Yes. They're not realistic.
>
> > so this is a point of view of ... you from their point of view
> > or is this a point of view from your point of view of your point of view
> > of them?  i'm a little confused here.
>
> My POV is that they are crazy, so their POV is invalid.
>
> > When asked about his golf score, Kim Jong
>
> > > Il used to say that it was 18 - a hole in one on every hole.
>
> > a hole in one on every hole is not possible?
>
> Every time? No one in the history of golf has had a hole in one on
> every hole.

Isn't that the goal of every golfer? If it isn't, it should be.

[TheInquirer]

On 4/05/2012 5:32 AM, bmo...@nyx.net wrote:
> On May 3, 12:02 pm, TheInquirer<alw...@ask.questions> wrote:
>> On 4/05/2012 1:03 AM, bmo...@nyx.net wrote:
>>
>>> On May 2, 10:09 pm, TheInquirer<alw...@ask.questions> wrote:
>> ....
>>>> have you considered looking at things from their point of view?
>>
>>>> have you considered how the American maddafakkas (esp. the government
>>>> and CIA) appear from Iranian and North Korean point of view?
>>
>>> Yes. They're not realistic.
>>
>> so this is a point of view of ... you from their point of view
>> or is this a point of view from your point of view of your point of view
>> of them? i'm a little confused here.
>
> My POV is that they are crazy, so their POV is invalid.

so you use your POV to invalidate their POV? aren't you thinking like
the Baldeagle? don't you have a better i-piss-them-all-logical basis?

>> When asked about his golf score, Kim Jong
>>
>>> Il used to say that it was 18 - a hole in one on every hole.
>>
>> a hole in one on every hole is not possible?
>
> Every time? No one in the history of golf has had a hole in one on
> every hole.

But Kim Jong used-to-be-Ill-but-now-Dead could!!! hey! maybe he used
my maths?!? casting out nines?

>> The
>>
>>> Iranian president denies that the Holocaust happened.
>>
>> what if the Holocaust never really happened?
>
> You could say that about anything. Japan never really tried to
> subjugate Asia. The Rape of Nanking is a myth.

if anybody could say that about anything, then what is the truth?
who determines the truth?

> I am certain that both the Holocaust and the Rape of Nanking really
> happened.
>
>> truth is socially
>> constructed, right? history is written by the victors, right?
>
> There is still a real history of what really happened, even if it is
> elusive. There is a real truth that reasonable people (if any exist)
> could agree on. All the revisionism is post-processing distortion.

how are these different from pre-processing distortion?

>> what about the Red Indian holocaust, and the Australian Aborigine
>> holocaust? why nobody seems to talk about them?
>
> Maybe because they were further in the past. They were bad, too.
>
> Anyway, some governments are crazy, and they are very hard to deal
> with.

and what if the actions of these "very hard to deal with" governments
are the product of the actions of your own "very hard to deal with"
government?

[TheInquirer]

On 4/05/2012 5:26 AM, bmo...@nyx.net wrote:
> On May 3, 12:10 pm, TheInquirer<alw...@ask.questions> wrote:
>> On 4/05/2012 1:24 AM, bmo...@nyx.net wrote:
>>
>>> On May 2, 10:13 pm, TheInquirer<alw...@ask.questions> wrote:
>>>> is beagle an apologist for the CCP?
>>
>>> Oh yeah.
>>
>> maybe he's just a sentimental pacifist? maybe he just has a naive view
>> of reality, in which the Darwinian rule of the jungle applies?
>
> Go back and look at his posting history. His mantra is clearly (to me)
> China good, US bad.

but "China good, US bad" is the paradox of the century isn't it?

when i was young, "China bad, US good" was the order of the day. even
my country was scared of the domino theory. Chairman Meow was the evil
cat. South Vietnam fell to the communist maddafakkas, then Cambodia or
Kampuchea or whatchamacall it ... but that was then ... now it's
different ... now it's financial crisis caused by capitalist maddafakkas
from USA, USA (in trying to prevent their asses getting kicked) kicking
other people asses but kicking the wrong asse ... printing more and more
magical US$ to finance the wars and budget deficit, and of course few
people know that CIA has always been fucking around other countries'
affairs ... so erm ... what is good, what is bad? why is there so much
mess in this world? is there anybody out / up there in charge?

anybody who criticises the USA is a CCP apologist?

[TheInquirer]

really? what happened to Michael Jackson? (not forgetting JFK and MLK)

[TheInquirer]

and what if i am trapped to just ask and ask and ask and ask and ask
questions? what if i am a robotic question generator ... i really
cannot control it ... ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!

[bmo...@nyx.net]

On May 3, 5:45 pm, TheInquirer <alw...@ask.questions> wrote:
> On 4/05/2012 5:32 AM, bmo...@nyx.net wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 3, 12:02 pm, TheInquirer<alw...@ask.questions>  wrote:
> >> On 4/05/2012 1:03 AM, bmo...@nyx.net wrote:
>
> >>> On May 2, 10:09 pm, TheInquirer<alw...@ask.questions>    wrote:
> >> ....
> >>>> have you considered looking at things from their point of view?
>
> >>>> have you considered how the American maddafakkas (esp. the government
> >>>> and CIA) appear from Iranian and North Korean point of view?
>
> >>> Yes. They're not realistic.
>
> >> so this is a point of view of ... you from their point of view
> >> or is this a point of view from your point of view of your point of view
> >> of them?  i'm a little confused here.
>
> > My POV is that they are crazy, so their POV is invalid.
>
> so you use your POV to invalidate their POV?  aren't you thinking like
> the Baldeagle?  don't you have a better i-piss-them-all-logical basis?

If my POV is incorrect, then I will be wrong. Some things really are
true.

> >> When asked about his golf score, Kim Jong
>
> >>> Il used to say that it was 18 - a hole in one on every hole.
>
> >> a hole in one on every hole is not possible?
>
> > Every time? No one in the history of golf has had a hole in one on
> > every hole.
>
> But Kim Jong used-to-be-Ill-but-now-Dead could!!!  hey!  maybe he used
> my maths?!?  casting out nines?

Yes, that's a very useful golf trick. As long as long as your score is
a multiple of 9 it is zero. I guess he left a few nines so that he
didn't look silly :-)

> >> The
>
> >>> Iranian president denies that the Holocaust happened.
>
> >> what if the Holocaust never really happened?
>
> > You could say that about anything. Japan never really tried to
> > subjugate Asia. The Rape of Nanking is a myth.
>
> if anybody could say that about anything, then what is the truth?
> who determines the truth?

There's no "who" to determine the truth for everyone. But there is a
truth.

> > I am certain that both the Holocaust and the Rape of Nanking really
> > happened.
>
> >> truth is socially
> >> constructed, right?  history is written by the victors, right?
>
> > There is still a real history of what really happened, even if it is
> > elusive. There is a real truth that reasonable people (if any exist)
> > could agree on. All the revisionism is post-processing distortion.
>
> how are these different from pre-processing distortion?

Interesting point. Bottom line, the truth is elusive.

> >> what about the Red Indian holocaust, and the Australian Aborigine
> >> holocaust?  why nobody seems to talk about them?
>
> > Maybe because they were further in the past. They were bad, too.
>
> > Anyway, some governments are crazy, and they are very hard to deal
> > with.
>
> and what if the actions of these "very hard to deal with" governments
> are the product of the actions of your own  "very hard to deal with"
> government?

It depends if the actions are reasonable. If I say hello to someone
and he yells at me, one could say my action precipitated his but since
my action was reasonable the blame lies not with me.

There are 2 parties in every discussion, but there is such a thing as
an very unreasonable person that it hard for a reasonably reasonable
person to deal with.

The US and China have their agendas, but they realize that they have
to show some respect to the other side. The kooks don't seem to
understand this.

[bmo...@nyx.net]

On May 3, 6:03 pm, TheInquirer <alw...@ask.questions> wrote:
> On 4/05/2012 5:35 AM, bmo...@nyx.net wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 3, 12:17 pm, TheInquirer<alw...@ask.questions>  wrote:
> >> On 4/05/2012 1:10 AM, bmo...@nyx.net wrote:
> >> ...
> >>    Would
>
> >>> you want someone to come knocking on your door because you criticized
> >>> someone on Usenet?
>
> >> which brings the question: do human beings really have free-will?
>
> > Yes, but you need to free your mind to exercise it well.
>
> >> maybe you think you have freedom, but McDonald's and the media are
> >> really the ones in control ... of your mind?
>
> > If you are in control of your mind, you already know the answer to
> > that.
>
> and what if i am trapped to just ask and ask and ask and ask and ask
> questions?

Seems like maybe you are :-)

> what if i am a robotic question generator ... i really
> cannot control it ... ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!

If it is having a negative impact on you then you need to try to
control it if you want to improve yourself.

[bmo...@nyx.net]

We have free will but usually fuck it up.

> anybody who criticises the USA is a CCP apologist?

That would be silly. Anyone who almost always defends something and
doesn't respond to rational discourse is an apologist.

Anyway, even though it's fun to discuss this shit, what really matters
is what happens in your life every day, not what someone on the other
side of the world does or says.

I was amazed when I was at a RR station in Guangzhou and saw a sign in
English that said "Think globally, act locally," a popular saying
among some activists in the US.

[bmo...@nyx.net]

The pop star? I don't follow.

The CIA may or may not have had something to do with the killings of
JFK/MLK but even that wouldn't change the fact that dissent is much
more tolerated in the US than China. Surely you know not to cherry-
pick examples to prove something. That's called "proof by anecdote"
and is used constantly by politicians and other fools as a substitute
for honest discussion.

[baldeagle]

On May 2, 4:15 pm, "AleXX®" <cir...@cycle.net> wrote:
.> This blind dissident have two choice. Bundle up with his families
.> and go stay in America or permanently camp inside the US embassy
.> in Beijing.
>

The third choice....he can choose to stay in China with his wife
and kids. And he has so chosen.

[Gabriel Smith]

For centuries Chinese are 崇洋媚外 . In this case, there is no different,
except the western media played it up.."Chen in his broken English...Mrs
Clinton...I want to kiss you". Blind Chen is physically blind, his context
of the world is different from us BUT his helpers should have a crystal
clear idea of the real world.. In her speech, Mrs Clinton has NEVER
mentioned about Blind Chen, but she stressed on Human Right etc, of course
in the self-righteous manner.

[baldeagle]

On May 4, 2:02 pm, "Gabriel Smith" <donts...@abc.com> wrote:
> For centuries Chinese are ³çÑóÃÄÍâ . In this case, there is no different,

All these actions took place in the complex inter course of
the culture differences between China, representing
5000 years of cultural vintage ....and the USA, representing
the new kid with Hollywood glitz and dazzle cultural
extravaganza...being sold to everyone around the world
as democracy with human rights and the rule of law

The glitz and dazzle US culture, like narcotics are
irresistible to many in China who want to try the
new high, the new experience...(Not unlike Mao
experimenting with communism in the 60s) They are not
happy with only Chinese tea and Chinese wine... The
new US culture is overwhelming ..even to the blind like
Chen. It is highly addictive..just like the Opium sold to
China not so many centuries ago.

Like the Latin drug lords, who push narcotics...the USA
went to wars (in Iraq and Afghanistan) to push
their Hollywood culture. In China, the USA has
started the cultural invasion since Tianannmen ...
and has been at it relentlessly to establish this
US cultural hegemony.

Activist blind Chen is a US foot soldier who has
become an icon of sort for US culture advocacy ...and
he is really a convict who betrayed his Chinese
cultural heritage.

The Chinese leaders view this episode as a storm in a
tea cup...they refused to even mention blind Chen's
name in top level meetings with the USA... but Western
media and Obama treat it as a crisis of national significance.

This is the underlying difference between the two cultures.

.

[Gabriel Smith]

Yes, i agree with you. In the book "The Web that has no weaver" (I believe
it is still available for loan from our library), the author stated that for
centuries Chinese medical practitioners have been writing commentary 注解
for 皇帝内经 but for the western doctors since they don't have this type of
authoritative books they must invent new drugs or surgery procedures to
fight diseases, China will be china and the west will be the west, I think
they are like oil and water cannot be mixed, hopefully Blind Chen knows that
he is being used.

[baldeagle]

On Thu, 3 May 2012 18:23:41 -0700 (PDT), baldeagle
<forc...@gmail.com> wrote:

So chosen! Booooooooooo

[TheInquirer]

On 4/05/2012 9:11 AM, bmo...@nyx.net wrote:

> If my POV is incorrect, then I will be wrong. Some things really are
> true.

my question is more to the tune of: without a thorough analysis of the
history of the interactions between US and China / N Korea / Iran,
especially the contributions to the problem on the part of the US, how
can an objective third party concur with your POV?

Take Iran ... please!!!

if i were an Iranian, i would be thinking: hey these Yankee infidels
(their term for "maddafakkas") have been interfering with our country's
(and our neighbouring country's) bizness ... they are evil! why should
i bend to their will?

[TheInquirer]

On 4/05/2012 9:19 AM, bmo...@nyx.net wrote:

> That would be silly. Anyone who almost always defends something and
> doesn't respond to rational discourse is an apologist.

does your "rational discourse" include considering things from your
enemy's point of view, or is it merely justifying your own point of view
with your own point of view (a thinly-veiled form of circular logic used
by Baldeagle)?

why are you like Baldeagle? i thought you are better?

[TheInquirer]

why must i be proving anything? can't i be just asking questions?
falling into the same trap as Baldeagle again?

[TheInquirer]

what negative impact? are asking questions bad?

[bmo...@nyx.net]

On May 4, 12:27 pm, TheInquirer <alw...@ask.questions> wrote:
> On 4/05/2012 9:22 AM, bmo...@nyx.net wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 3, 6:01 pm, TheInquirer<alw...@ask.questions>  wrote:
> >> On 4/05/2012 5:34 AM, bmo...@nyx.net wrote:
>
> >>> On May 3, 12:14 pm, TheInquirer<alw...@ask.questions>    wrote:

> >>> The CIA certainly has played some games, but s.

>
> >> really?  what happened to Michael Jackson?  (not forgetting JFK and MLK)
>
> > The pop star? I don't follow.
>
> > The CIA may or may not have had something to do with the killings of
> > JFK/MLK but even that wouldn't change the fact that dissent is much
> > more tolerated in the US than China. Surely you know not to cherry-
> > pick examples to prove something. That's called "proof by anecdote"
> > and is used constantly by politicians and other fools as a substitute
> > for honest discussion.
>
> why must i be proving anything?  can't i be just asking questions?

You question is too vague then. I don't understand the relationship of
your Michael Jackson question to the CIA.

I assume your question is related to my comment "by any objective
standard
the US allows dissent much more than China does" and the fact that the
CIA has played games doesn't change that.

> falling into the same trap as Baldeagle again?

Wildly unlikely.

[bmo...@nyx.net]

I don't use circular logic. You must be misunderstanding. Rational
discourse is about honest discussion from the POV of truth. There is
truth. The sky is blue, for example. It's not all relative to a POV.

[bmo...@nyx.net]

On May 4, 12:22 pm, TheInquirer <alw...@ask.questions> wrote:
> On 4/05/2012 9:11 AM, bmo...@nyx.net wrote:
>
> > If my POV is incorrect, then I will be wrong. Some things really are
> > true.
>
> my question is more to the tune of: without a thorough analysis of the
> history of the interactions between US and China / N Korea / Iran,
> especially the contributions to the problem on the part of the US, how
> can an objective third party concur with your POV?

All that should be accounted for.

> Take Iran ... please!!!
>
> if i were an Iranian, i would be thinking: hey these Yankee infidels
> (their term for "maddafakkas") have been interfering with our country's
> (and our neighbouring country's) bizness ... they are evil!  why should
> i bend to their will?

I can understand that point of view. But I also know plenty of
Iranians who also think that Iranian government is nuts. Of course
it's true that the US has behaved badly at times with Iran. I'm not
promoting some "USA!" type rah rah philosophy. Just honest discussion.
The US has behaved badly, but the Iranians are nuts. Irrational is
hard to deal with.

[bmo...@nyx.net]

Asking too many questions can be bad. For one thing, it starts to
annoy people after a while, which is bad if you want to keep having a
discussion. Questions should be combined with rational commentary.

[baldeagle]

On May 4, 3:55 pm, "Gabriel Smith" <donts...@abc.com> wrote:
> Yes, i agree with you. In the book "The Web that has no weaver" (I believe
> it is still available for loan from our library), the author stated that for

> centuries Chinese medical practitioners have been writing commentary ×¢½â
> for »ÊµÛÄÚ¾­ but for the western doctors since they don't have this type of

> authoritative books they must invent new drugs or surgery procedures to
> fight diseases, China will be china and the west will be the west, I think

.> they are like oil and water cannot be mixed, hopefully Blind Chen
.> knows that he is being used.

Blind Chen work for the USA...as a human right activist...
he is not 'being used'but paid to do a job.
The episode has shown that the USA is being used by
Chen ..to realize his dream of going to the USA and being
taken care by uncle Sam.

[ŠAleXX]

On Fri, 4 May 2012 14:03:21 -0700 (PDT), baldeagle
<forc...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On May 4, 3:55爌m, "Gabriel Smith" <donts...@abc.com> wrote:
>> Yes, i agree with you. In the book "The Web that has no weaver" (I believe
>> it is still available for loan from our library), the author stated that for

>> centuries Chinese medical practitioners have been writing commentary 注解
>> for 皇帝内经 but for the western doctors since they don't have this type of

>> authoritative books they must invent new drugs or surgery procedures to
>> fight diseases, China will be china and the west will be the west, I think
>.> they are like oil and water cannot be mixed, hopefully Blind Chen
>.> knows that he is being used.
>
>Blind Chen work for the USA...as a human right activist...
>he is not 'being used'but paid to do a job.
>The episode has shown that the USA is being used by
>Chen ..to realize his dream of going to the USA and being
>taken care by uncle Sam.

By the way, why are you, a non citizen, frothing in the mouth with
your testicle bags tied up in a knot?

There are so many Chinese citizens who are supporting Chen and calling
for the release of the hundreds who are unjustly detained. Likewise
there has been protests in Taiwaqn and Hong Kong.
So, will you say that those people are also US activists?

[baldeagle]

On May 5, 6:02 pm, AleXX <mad...@imh.sg> wrote:
> On Fri, 4 May 2012 14:03:21 -0700 (PDT), baldeagle
>
>

.> By the way, why are you, a non citizen, frothing in
.> the mouth with your testicle bags tied up in a knot?

No. you are not a sexy woman with gentle hand...
you cannot take care of my balls. I am not gay.

Go..try offering to the Marines.

>
.> There are so many Chinese citizens who are supporting Chen...
.> Likewise there has been protests in Taiwaqn and Hong Kong.

No enough....the USA is bankrupt now...do not have
enough,...to pay for more activists....
I remember,...there were almost a million in TAM square. How
many were there in Hong Kong demo ? A dozen...a hundred...
a thousands...ten thousands...??? WHY so few....so very, very
few ?

Not enough....not enough .. certainly not enough to
start an Arab Spring in China.

May be....just may be....the Chinese are smarter now...
better educated now.....are richer than American now.....
not so easily fooled the West now!!

Ha ha ha ha he he he he

[baldeagle]

correction : Should read:

"May be....just may be....the Chinese are smarter now...

better educated now.....many are richer than American now.....
not so easily fooled by the West now!! "

Some hpw...those two little words are removed from
my original posting.

[ŠAleXX]

Yeah, removed by the CIA
Right?

[jalil@gmail.com yusof jalil]

His wife can sell her eggs to childless parents. These eggs are in demand
and fetch quite high prices. An egg a month will be able to sustain their
lifes for some time.

"baldeagle" wrote in message
news:597bc4f5-53cc-403d...@t23g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...

[baldeagle]

On May 5, 7:59 pm, ©AleXX <mad...@imh.sg> wrote:
> On Sat, 5 May 2012 03:26:20 -0700 (PDT), baldeagle
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

you think so !
I just know...often words are removed
or changed ...and often, my post went
missing for hours...before it appear.

The latest, I posted similar posts in reply to both your
posts offering to look after my balls.. at about the SAME
time....but the second one appeared only this morning.

[rst0]

The Iranians had more than enough of America's hands in their country.

[rst0]

Truth is very elusive. Truth to one may NOT be truth to someone else.