Freedom and Liberty
Albert M.C. Tam
Johnny Chien-Min Yu <cae...@chopin.udel.edu> wrote:
>
> [ 774 lines of reply deleted ... ]
say. who is the lifeless dumbass on the net, eh?
Merry christmas and happy new year,
--
__________________________________________________________________________
## Albert M.C Tam ( bertie on IRC ) ## Today is Mon Dec 26 13:22:24 1994
## ber...@halcyon.halcyon.com ## Only 917 day(s) til we all rot in
## URL http://www.armory.com/~bertie ## hell... oh well. maybe not.
Johnny Chien-Min Yu
>Ouch. I really don't relish writing this one.
>From your post it is obvious that you are MOSTLY psychologically
>healthy. I do not use the word "insane" to describe you. I would use
>the word "mildly dissociated" to describe you.
alt.human-brain #529 (2 + 6 more) -( )--( )--( )--( )--[1]-+[1]
From: cae...@chopin.udel.edu (Johnny Chien-Min \-[1]
+ Yu)
Re: freedom and liberty
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*Date: Tue Dec 20 23:09:35 EST 1994*
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Organization: University of Delaware
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alt.human-brain #530 (2 + 6 more) -( )--( )--( )--( )--[1]-+[1]
From: ji...@netcom.com (Jim Whitaker) \-[1]
Re: freedom and liberty
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1]
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*Date: Wed Dec 21 05:31:15 EST 1994*
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Mr. Jim Whitaker,
I am surprise at the speed which you reply my posting. I posted my
last article at around 23:09 (pm.)EST on Dec. 20, and your reply was posted at
05:31 am. EST on Dec. 21. It is unusual for someone like you to stay up so
late at night to reply a simple posting. I should say that you must burned
some midnight oil for writing your reply.
It is very unusual for a scientist to waste his sleeping time to
compose a fast reply full of the tone of arrogance, accusation, and
personal attacks if the scientist does not have some ulterior motivation.
It is as if you were trying to post your reply on the net as close to the
the time which I posted my last article or even at the same time if you
could. Why were you in such of a hurry to reply to my posting?
Had you been waiting for my posting on the net in order to reply to it as soon
as possible?
Did my post keep you up at night? If it did, I apologize. But, it
shows that you are not in normal conditions.
After my graduation, I also had a second major in psychology. I
got the chance apply what I learned in school to real life situations
because I was always the administrator of the small units or an independent
unit during the first five years of my military career. I learned how to
observe and understand the behaviors of people and recognize the motivations
behind those behaviors. This helps me to understand my soldiers and
subordinates offiers in a very short period of time. It also had helped me
to pin-point problems and potential problems between personnel; and
neutralize these problems before it become serious. This result is
achieved through a very clear understanding the people's personalities
and their original intentions. Therefore, I can easily understand other
people from the little things that they do. If you think that my
observations about your reply is violating your privacy, I am very sorry.
Finally, I would like to ask you a question: why in your entire reply, you
avoid explaining or didn't explain that why two sources, at different
time, from different places with different political affiliations,
documented the existence of the same thing, "thoughts detecting machine,"
and attributed the origin of the machine to the same country (The first one
was from the South China Morning Post of Hong Kong in 1970s and another was
from the National Defense Department of Taiwan in 1984) ?
I do believe that there is the only one answer can solve and explain it.
There can only be one explanation for this: The machine exists.
:: > Maybe you could bring my comments
:: >as well, but I don't think a doctor would want to look at them.
:: Dear Jim,
:: If the doctor would not want to see your comments, this must mean your
:: conclusion is incorrect and this means that I am obviously normal.
>Doctor's are rarely willing to listen to anything that a non-physician
>prepared for your case, other than observations of people who have spent a
>lot of time around the person.
>You are obviously VERY CLOSE TO NORMAL, considering that you were
>capable of writing this response.
Since you have admitted that you are not a licensed physician, your
diagnosis to anyone is legally invalid and is without any medical value.
:: I don't think such tone is appropriate for discussion. Furthermore,
>I wasn't trying to discuss, I was trying to tell you that you show signs
>of being in trouble.
If you don't want to discuss the subject of this thread, you need not
reply. The overall tone of your reply seems to be that of arrogance,
accusation, and threats. This is inconsistent to your claim.
:: from the viewpoint of a pure discussion, we should only talk about the
:: subject but not digress into personal attack and accuse someone as being
:: insane just because he or she disagree with your opinion.
>I am not accusing you of being "insane". "Insanity" is not a crime.
>Disagreeing with me is not a crime.
The tone here is that of arrogance and impoliteness.
> your beleifin this "thought detecting machine", and your posting
>20,000,000 copies of it.
Please show me the source of this information. If this is only a
guess, you are very imaginative. If the articles that I posted were
indeed full of nonsense as you would have everyone believe, then people
will dismiss it. If what I posted were not true, then there's nothing to
fear and nothing to cover up.
:: Otherwise, this will monopolize the freedom of speech. These events
:: occurred frequently in the "former evil empire", the KGB of the Communist
:: Soviet government used to accuse dissidents of being insane and commit them
:: into mental institutions in order to suppress them and protect the regime.
>I should say here that it is extremely traumatic to even consider that
>one might not be operating correctly. The moment of even considering
>the possiblity is rather nerve-rattling. After a few weeks, you learn
>to accept it.
Fortunately, I am not suffering from the conditions which you have
described. If you try to treat everyone whom you meet as your patient,
then you are suffering from a kind of illness of career. This is
especially true in the field of psychology because the psychiatrists meet
many unbalanced patients in their work. Sometime the psychologists are
affected by their own patients. Perhaps, your work in the neuro-science has
also exposed you to similar conditions. I suggest that you may need to get
away from work for a while in order to re-adjust to reality.
:: See, You are moving away from the subject and attacking the author.
:: I am a bit puzzled by what do you are referring when you said symptoms?
:: Are you referring to the symptoms which I describe in my tips?
>Yes. Those tips and talking about the "thought detecting machine", are
>like "red warning lights" to a psychiatrist of a dissociative thought
>process in action.
Your words is definitely a "red warning light" for a possible career
illness. One may become too absorbed in his own work that he treat anyone
that he run across as a potential patient. If you are suffering from this
condition, you may need help from licensed physician who is legally
qualified to give out medical advises and prescriptions.
:: If you are, those tips which I had offered in my original article apply
:: to only to a person who is in normal condition without health problems,
:: have not overwork and is not undergoing special emotional stress.
:: Although I didn't clarify this in my oringinal article, these pre-conditions
:: should be obvious to any normal person.
>I assumed this.
Did you? Then you wouldn't have tried to negate the tips in my original
post with simple things like allergies.
>Neurological problems seem to develop totally out of the
>blue. Sometimes they are caused by something as simple as food allergies.
>Sometimes some "bug" gets in there and creates havoc in the brain.
>Sometimes it's a brain tumour. They all start manifesting symptoms out
>of the blue.
Your opinion here is correct, but it is unrelated to my tips. If anyone
has the symptoms as you have described, they are suffering from medical
disorders. This disqualified them from using the tips automatically
because the conditions of the tip require the person to be in good health
without any medical conditions. Also, people who meet the symptoms that
you described cannot satisfy the conditions of my four tips at the same
time. Therefore, the tips are not applicable to your example.
:: I do know some operators of this machine. Some of them are from Taiwan
:: and some of them are the citizen of U.S.A. If one day I need to go to
:: court to defend my words, I'll request the court to give the order for
:: these operators to surrender the machine and force them to testify.
>If you were to go to court to "cease the harrassment" of these machines,
>and their capricious operators, the judge would provide a court order for
>you to be evaluated by a psychiatrist. The psychiatrists judgement would
>be virtually identicle to mine and the judges.
Why throw the case out of the court before the trial? Is anyone out there
who feared to testify in court?
As earlier, since you have admitted that you are not a licensed physician,
your deduction has no legal or medical values at all. Furthermore, are you
making a threat?
>Go ahead and try it. Go get supeonas to stop them. Your case will
>throw out the court.
You have changed you position to that of a judge and render your final
judgements based on your own opinions. How do you want everyone to address
you, Mr. Whitaker or your honor? This statement appears to have a strong
threatening tone. What is bothering you so much that you appear to be
losing your temper?
>This is not totalitarianism. They don't want a person running
>around loose who blames machine operators for peoples problems thinking.
If what I said were false, why do they need to fear? Are you saying that
the American public is not educated enough to make their own decisions
between reality and fiction? May I remind you that most people on
Internet are college students, professionals, professors, and researchers.
If the intellectuals cannot think for themselves, why do we need education?!
>Tell me, what would you have done if one of your subordinate officers
>said that evil spirits were making his brain all befuddled and causing the
>problems that you listed? You would have sent him straight to the
>psychiatrist, wouldn't you? Now give those spirits a machine to
>work with -- and we have the same fantasy.
Once again, your question shows that didn't assume the pre-requirement for
applying my tips and contradict yourself of already assuming the logical
pre-requirements. You should not make so much simple mistake;
especially, to an expert also as a genius at the same time like you.
This is very unusual. Mr. Whitaker, is there something that's bothering you?
The tips that I had offered only relate to this machine and is not
applicable to the evil spirits which you speak of. Your question is
irrelevant to my tips. However, if your question was: will this machine
be used on my subordinate officers or to drive them mad, I would like
to explain it to you.
The ultimate goal of those operators is to keep people under their
regulation. Military officers and soldiers are already in an environment
that's under control. The military already have all of their personnel's
important informations on files. Even there is something unusual occurred
that calls for special investigations of a particular officer or solider,
then the operators only need to read the thoughts of that officer with
the machine (According to the classified document, the operators should be
part of military police dept. of Taiwan) - In this situation, officer will
satisfy the conditions of tip one or two. Furthermore, the headquarter
of the military will give an order to change the position of the officer
or anything else that's deemed necessary. The operators won't drive
a particular officer mad because it is unnecessary. As long as the
officer or soldier remain in the military, he/she is in a controlled
environment in which the orders of the superior must be followed.
Therefore, if an officer or soldier need to be dealt with, all the
operators of the machine need to do is to read him/her thoughts and then get
the military headquarter to take action.
:: The problem here is that you are already very far away from the
:: subject and still making personal attack. You didn't mention a word
>Sir, I am not trying to attack you. I am taking the time and effort to
>attempt to show you that you need help.
The problem here is the problem which contrived from your own
imagination.
:: concerning the subject. Why don't you mention about the report which
:: was printed on the South-China Morning Post of Hong-Kong in 1970 and
:: provide a logical explanation for it. What about the classified document
:: which I handled as a lieutenant colonel of Taiwan's National Defense
:: Department in 1984? The sources of these two informations are
:: completely unrelated (the article was printed in the '70s while I
:: handled the report during 1984 in two completely different places with
:: different political affiliations and referred to the same machine), how
:: do you explain this fact?!
>I have seen neither the report nor the newspaper article. Since they
>are so hard to beleive and are so totally counter to my experience with
>the medical instrumentation field, I would have to say that they are
>figments of your imagination -- manufactured memories to support your
>explanation of this machine in action.
So, you admit that your opposition to my article is based on your belief
that all of my evidences were manufactured by my mind. Fortunately, I have
an excerpt of the original South China Morning Post article in chinese.
This excerpt was provided by an university professor in Hong Kong. This
excerpt automatically negated your presumptions. Furthermore, you made up
your conclusion on what I have said before you check out the two sources of
information that I offered. This shows that your mind was closed before
you read my article. This is contrary to how a scientist would behave.
>What I find particularly alarming about your post is that you posted
>20,000,000 copies of it all over the world describing disturbing
>symptoms of neurological disorders in what looks to a trained eye
>like mine to be a dissociated plea for help. It is probably not a
>conscious process.
Once again, I like to know the source of this statistic.
Is this statistics a figment of your imagination? Also the number of copies
of my posting that's being circulated should only be the concern of the
operators, inventors, developers or the owner of the patent and not that of
yours. From the view of a neutral third party or my trained eyes (of
human behaviors), your reaction to my posting is very abnormal.
:: Why do you trying to avoid the subject and only criticize the author?
>You furthermade the assumption in your post that someone who flipped out
>like a schitzophrenic and killed people was under the effect of the machine.
>There is a much more logical explanation for his behaviour than having
>been under the influence of a machine -- he belonged in in a hospital.
Concerning the events of schizophrenia which occurred in New York, I will
further clarify it. There were two case that were discussed in previous
article. One was brought up by Mark concerning the case of "Son of Sam",
the other one was something that I ran across reading the newspaper.
I'll admit that I don't really know the details of the case (son of sam)
All I know was what Mark had said that the murderer had killed seven guys.
If murderer killed these seven people on different days, and he has no
financial dispute, emotional conflicts, and does not have any competitive
conflict with his victims, then I agree he should be insane. But if all of
the seven people were killed on almost the same time on the same day without
any provocations, then I would suspect the machine might be one of possible
causes of this case. I want to make a clear differentiation between the
two possibilities (insanity and being affected by the machine). If
the operators want to ruin their subject, they'll just need to drive him into
killing one person. This is enough to make him appear to be insane
to put him in jail or send into mental institution (although in reality, the
subject may not be truly insane. He may be just releasing the stress
that's been created by having the machine used on him). So, logically the
operator will not make any more effort to drive the person to kill more on
different days. But, the person who is driven mad by the machine may use a
powerful weapons such as AK-47 semi-automatic to kill a lot of people at
one place to unleash his anger. (This place should be a regualar place which
the person always go or stay, also where he meet a few people who are the
operators and taunting him with their actions to drive him mad. The person
doesn't know this machine but he felt some people know too much about him
and everyone seems taunting him. It make him angry at the people of the
place. )
The other case involves a person who lived in New York: who was from
China.He killed his wife while she was working. The newspaper reported that
the killer have recently heard a voice that he changed his bad luck by
killing his wife. I suspect that this case might be caused by something
else other than schizoprenia like the machine.
> You, as a senior military officer were not able to make that obvious
> connection. THAT is another "RED LIGHT" that there is a dissociative
I have already explain those New York cases in this posting.
:: Have you investigated these sources? Why did these informations refer to
:: the same thing? You should not take this kind of position unless you
:: already had a fixed position to defend before you read my article!
>All I need is 15 years of time spent studying human physiology and
>psychology and 19 years studying engineering and computers to tell me
>that your arguments are totally flawed.
I did clearly pointed out a very important idea to you.
"An expert has an unfaired advantage in his/her field of expertise. He
can purposedly accuse or misdirect another (by using true but unrelated
reasonings to confuse the people) even know the other person is
telling the truth or very closed to it (if the expert so chooses).
This will become a distraction and cause the reader to misinterpret the
discussion. Therefore, an expert must always keep an impartial position
and refrained from making personal attack in the discussion. He also must
investigate the sources of the informations and examine informations
before he can make a meaningful conclusion.
But, you have not look into the sources of these information before you
made your conclusion. That's very unusual attitude for a scientist.
Furthermore, you didn't or avoid to provide a logical explanation to the
classified document and the articles that I have mentioned. That two
sources are from different area, at different time, with different
affiliation, and mentioned the same machine.
>every second. It is physically impossible to monitor that mechanism
>from a distance. Even close up all we can do is stick a few probes
>on the skin or in to the brain and monitor the signals on a viewing
>screen or eeg like device. Electromagnetic waves have almost no effect
>because the brain isn't a radio receiver.
I would like to say that, I came forward as a witness to inform the public
of the existence of this machine according to the documents. A eye witness
doesn't necessarily have to have a professional licensed to testify what he
knew and what he saw to a happened event, except the witness who come to offer
his expertise knowledge as an expert witness and not an eye witness.
I described the machine to best of my knowledge based on the facts which
includes reports, classified documents, and my experiences.
The machine had been invented and used for a long time.
The machine is wireless, can be remotely controlled and use the waves which
can penetrate metal, brick, wood. If indeed C.I.A. bought the patent as
according to the Hong-Kong newspaper reported, logically the inventors will
join the C.I.A. in order to keep improving the machine. They should stay
their original positions at academia to prevent the technology from be
spreading and even misdirect others whose idea may closing in the
technology of patent to keep their secret. Also the inventors are all
scientists and may be best in their field. They'll know what they need to
conceal in order to keep the patent a secret. So, it will be very hard to
find any evidences other than those documents. This is why an expert like
you were not exposed to this technology.
To find the technology or secret of the patent should be the works of
these scientists who are not belong to the group of the operators or
inventors of the machine. Also, you would likely be met with intervention
from the inventors, developers, and the owner of the patent.
>You don't have to be a genius to be struck down. Even Ronald Reagan was
>struck down with alzheimers, he wasn't exactly a genius.
::>I personally have had a bout with some kind of neuro-chemical
::>disruption which the doctors could not diagnose.
::> I was a child prodigy, incollege full time at the age of 13, an IQ off
::>the top of most charts.
In your original posting, you said that you "have had a bout with some
kind of neuro-chemical disruption which the doctor could not diagnose",
perhaps you should take better care of yourself.
::>Like you I am extremely smart. It is very likely that the imbalance in
::>the nervous system that makes some people like you and me very smart is
::>also the cause of problems when we get older.
:: I'm flatter with your comments which praises me as a extremely smart
::guy. Unfortunely, I'm not, but a common person. If I appeared to be
>Heh, I'll salute a Colonel as uncommonly smart.
This is why I know the machine had been invented and used effectively for
a long time.
:: extremely smart, this is because I learn things very carefully:
:: especially, how to observe events (things and people) very meticulously,
:: and how to understand behaviors of people from my experiences in school,
:: military, and society. I was not born with these abilities nor am I
:: as gifted as you. So the problems which you mention does not apply to me.
:: If the remark of being a extremely smart person was reffering to the
:: truthfulness of what I said and know about this machine, then I agree with
:: you completely.
:: By the way, according to your own deduction, I would like to offer the
:: advice: you should be careful when you are getting older :)
: >I happen to be something of an expert in neuro-physiology, as well as a
: >practicing engineer.
::If it was indeed C.I.A. which purchased the patent on the" thoughts
::detecting machine" as reported in Hong Kong's Newspaper. Then,
::logically, the scientists and engineers who helped to develop this
::machine would have to join the C.I.A. in order to keep the machine a
>They would not join the CIA. You have to be an american citizen to
>have a CIA job that handles anything sensative.
According to the report of Hong-Kong newspaper, the patent was brought by
CIA from an American University in the 70s. On the other hand, the
classified document indicated that the military police department of
Taiwan had already purchased this machine from United States. So, the
inventor should be Americans or had naturalized to be U.S. citizen after a
few years and join the C.I.A. in order to keep on improving the machine.
::The inventors are Americans.
::secret and to further improve on the capabilities of this machine.
:: They would also retain their original position in academia to prevent the
>You are making the assumption here that the developers were professors
>or students.
After almost twenty years, I don't expect they still stay in school. And
logically should already slowly transfer most of them to the special or new
professional research institution which belong to or cooperator
with the owner of this patent to improve this machine with some other new
developers for keeping secret. Only a few of them may stay at school,
and the ages of these inventors should be over 45 unless they were all
genius like you.
:: technology from being spread or even misdirect others whose idea may be on
:: the right path to similar discovery. This is why an expert like you still
:: have not exposed to this technology even though the machine had been used
:: effectively for a long time.
>Your beleif in this machine is the product of a traumatized or chemically
>disrupted nervous system.
The classified document of the National Defense Dep. of Taiwan is the very
obviously real and true. Also the report of newspaper mentioned the same
machine with the classified document. It is only show that this machine
had been invented and used effectively for a long time.
:: >If someone showed you a paper about a thought detecting machine, it was
:: >probably a joke. If it did exist, it would also be classified, and you
:: >would be violating your security clearence to talk about it. So quite
:: >frankly, what you are saying about a thought detecting machine is not
:: >only impossible, but would qualify as treason for you to talk about
:: >it. You would not commit treason. Therefore beleif in a thoughts
:: >detecting machine can only be a product of your nervous system.
Your meant that I should not come forward concerning this machine just
because it was classified and neglect the danger and the harm which this
machine can bring.
:: If your assumptions were true, then the document should be a joke or I had
:: committed treason, or I have the problem in my nervous system. Your
:: attitute show that you making more effort to make a person attack.
>I am not trying to make a personal attack. I am trying to tell you that
>a little bit of medication could stem the tide of a long ugly painful mess.
You are still avoiding the subject with still the same excuse.
:: Now let's discuss your assumptions.
::
:: You think the document was probably a joke.
:: If you ever had any experiences in governmental service, you will know
:: this is impossible. No joke is allowed in any governmental documents
:: especially in the military. Every document is vital to the proper
:: functioning of the military; a small mistake can cause an incredible
:: amount of damages. When you screw up in the military, people will dies
:: in the field of combat. Therefore, NO JOKE IS ALLOWED UNDER ANY
:: CIRCUMSTANCES. The only time that a document are allowed to be
:: falsified is in the event of tactical counter-intelligence.
>OK. No joke. That means that you beleive it absolutely MUST BE true.
yes, Of course.
Also In counter-intelligence or any trick in the military, the experiences of
mine should be much better than yours unless you are not just a scientist.
:: I had served seventeen years in military before I retired.
:: I do believe my experiences in counter intelligence or trickery in the
:: military should be much better than yours unless you are not only an
:: professional scientist but also have the background of the intelligence.
:: When I handled this classified document I was lieutenant colonel of
:: the National Defense of Taiwan in 1984. At that time my evaluation is
:: "A", and I keep the same performance until my retirement. Upon my
:: retirement, I received the award of "Loyalty and Dedication" with the
:: signature of both the Minister of Defense and President of Taiwan.
>Great, so you used to be Mr Perfect. What does that prove?
This proves that the classified document which I handled must be true
because of these conditions.
:: Discussing this secret with the general publics is not treason, but may
:: against the military security regulations if I were still a citizen of
:: Taiwan. Since I have naturalized to be a citizen of U.S.A. and no longer
:: of a military officer of Taiwan for a long time, I can discuss any military
:: secret of Taiwan legally if I so desire. But, I didn't do that, and I do
:: know numerous of Taiwan's military secrets. This is because to talk about
:: these secrets will be an act against my conscience. The only exception
:: is the "thoughts detecting machine".
:: Now, I would like you to know why I am discussing this machine. My
:: purpose of talking about this machine is not only because it reads people's
:: thoughts and violate their rights to privacy (which it does). What
:: prompted me to come forward is the cruelty of some of the operators of
:: this machine. They are not public servants as governmental officers should
:: be. Instead, they believe they are above the people and the master of the
:: people which they investigates. These operators uses
:: electronic-magnetic waves to harm people whom they do not like.
:: Sometimes they use the machine to drive other people mad; this is
:: because the operators cannot predict these people's behaviors. These
:: operators may also cause car accident to finish them off as another
:: alternative. But these victims are human beings, and they didn't break
:: any law. The operators believe that they have the rights to change the
:: other people's lives if these operators so desired. It only
:: because most people never know such machine existed and no law had been
:: made to regulate this machine and the operators. Such things may be not
:: known by the machine inventor, but it is this type of abuse human life
:: which prompt me to come forward.
>Your description of "operators" sound startlingly like schitzophrenics
>saying that the "spirits made me do it."
Your accusation is really funny.
The label of schizophrenia is not applicable here. It was explained
previously in this posting. Furthermore, those who are aware of the
existence of this machine will not be driven mad. This is because he/she
won't believe in the voice which is seemingly coming from air unless he/she
can physically located the the person speaking to them in a nearby area.
Otherwise, they'll know that these voices are not coming from his/her own
imagination to avoid confusing himself/herself. Furthermore, they will
never follow the voices to do anything which is against law, because they
know it's a set up. So, the situation as you described will never happened.
And that is exactly why I want to bring out the informations about this
machine to save people who had no intent to break any law but encounter
this situation by a strange twist of fate.
If everybody believe the machine exists and remember the four tips
which I have offered then he/her can avoid to be driven to mad in
case that the operators try to do so.
Also I suspect that the operators do need the advices from the
expert neurologist to use the electronicmagnetic waves as a weapton to
hurt the nervous system of brain or body of a person.
:: >It is very very difficult to know what do to do under circumstances
:: >like this. A person who doesn't want to be helped won't be helped
:: >unless he gets so bad that authorities intervene and force treatment.
:: Why does your words seems as if it were coming from a totalitarian
:: government. Only trying to accuse people who has different opinions
:: as insane. By the way, I like to point out a very important idea;
:: "An expert has an unfair advantage in discussing a subject of his
:: expertise. For the expert can easily misdirect another or purposedly
:: accuse another of being technically incorrect, even with the full
:: understanding that the other person is very close to be correct (if the
:: expert so chooses).
:: Therefore, in order for the expert to take an impartial position, he must
:: restrict his discussion to the subject which be discussed and nothing else
:: (and he definitely should not make any personal attack)."
:: Because the document is real and no joke is involved; therefore, your
:: conclusion is incorrect.
>I can't see the document. I can see demonstrated thought disorders,
>something of which I have become a reluctant expert in.
The document is real (explanation was mention previously in this posting).
The problem here is that you don't want to know all informations concerning
this machine. That is why you don't even want to check the existence of those
two documents. You have already put a blind on your eyes and close
your mind before you enter this discussion. It most like that you already
have a fixed position to defend.
>There is nothing wrong with being an idealist. Just try to be a realist
>first.
I am pragmatist and a realist. My training in the military taught me to
always be a realist an pragmatist first.
:::: Right now I would offer some tips to you to make sure if you are or
:::: have been detected by this machine!
:::: 1. When you are dreaming, you suddenly think about or recall things
:::: (people & events) which happened in many,many years ago(even more than
:::: ten or twenty years before).
::>This happens to everyone when they are asleep.
:: What I was discussing was that your dream should be somehow connected
:: to what you were doing in they day, whom you met, and what you were
:: trying to recall at the daytime or before you goto sleep.
:: If Your dream did not relate what you were doing,what you were
:: thinking and you are suddenly recalling events that had occurred many, many
:: years ago without being triggered by something that happened in the day,
:: then this dream does not belong to you. This means that this machine
:: might be searching for your personal history through your recollections.
>such as getting nightmares after watching horror movies. No one knows
>what dreams are or what purposes they serve.
You had said earlier that you had already taken my pre-conditions into
consideration. But, this above statement proves that you have not. If
you watch a movie that's considered to be something that you were doing
while you were awake. Therefore, it will be very normal to have dreams or
even nightmare concerning it. This makes your point invalid.
Dear Jim, you show everyone you are not in normal condition.
:::: 2.If you work alone in office or at home, your brain can't stop
:::: thinking other things which is absolutely disconnected with what
:::: you're doing.
::>This is consistant with manic depression or schitzo-affective disorder.
::>No machine can induce this. This also happens to people who have been
::>through a trauma or lost a loved one.
:: Your point is invalid since the tip applies only those who are not
:: undergoing special emotional stress and did not intend to think of this.
:: If you cannot stop this stream of thoughts after trying, then this
:: stream of thoughts does not belong to you.
It is almost like someone open a book and browse it to find the page he
wants.
>WHAT? Manic depressives and schitzophrenics are not necessarily under
>emotional stress. A manic manic depressive often seems rather stress
>free and happy.
The argument that you are making is involves special cases which are
excluded by the pre-conditions of the tips.
:::: 3. After you go to the bed, you easily fall to deep sleeping and can't
:::: easy to wake up as usual.
::>It sounds like the effects of getting older. This is why people drink
::>coffee.
::Your condition violates the pre-conditions of my tip.
::If you spent a lot of energies, surely this will happen. therefore,
::you'll need some rest.
::My point was if there's a sudden change to your sleeping pattern without
::any physical and emotional problems. If this is true and also you are
::beginning to have long dreams to accompany this condition, then the
::operators might be using the machine on you.
>Sudden change of sleeping pattern is a "red light" that a bout with some
>form of neurological disorder such as manic depression is the problem.
>Perhaps I should change my "tentative diagnosis" to developing manic
>depression?
Since I am able to offer these tips, obviously the problems involve in the
tips are not troubling me. I'll answer you question with another
question. You have mention many symptoms of schizoprenia and maniac
depression, does that mean you also suffer from these diseases? And are
your claims also a dissociative cry for help?
Also you conditions does not apply to a normal person; therefore, it
violates the pre-conditions of my tips. Therefore, it is invalid.
:::: 4. Your recent sleeping time have been longer than usual but you still
:::: feel tire and dizzy.
::>Any number of neurological problems can cause this. Even bad diet.
:: Your condition once again violated one of the pre-condition.
:: If you are sure you have no physical or emotional problems. This might
:: mean they are using the machine on you.
:: If there's no dream that accompany the previous mention condition, then
:: most terrible thing is the operators might be using the electromagnetic
:: waves to hurt your body.
>Sounds like the depressive episode of a manic depressive.
Your point does not apply to a normal person; therefore, your point is
invalid once more.
>How often are you affected by this machine, Mr Yu?
If you were the one of developers (you can't be the inventor because it's
invented almost twenty years), I think you'll try to use
it on me as many times as you can to stop me for talking such machine.
Fortunately, I know how to protect myself if you try.
>Please get help. This is not a personal attack.
The totalitarian power always accuse dissidents as being insane and send
them to mental institution in order to suppress them. This is because
there's so much to hide. Your actions seems to be similar to that.
Finally, I must reiterate you are not a licensed physician. You cannot
make any meaningful medical diagnosis or give out medical advises. Also,
you had mentioned earlier that you once suffered from a bout of
neuro-chemical disruption which doctor weren't able to diagnosis.
Therefore, you are in no position to say anything regarding the medical
conditions because we don't really know whether or not you have completely
recovered yet.
Please take a rest and make audjumenst for yourself. Or ask a licensed
physician who is qualify give out the medicine. Your argument appears
that you treat people who you meet as apotential patient. It's a kind of
career disease.
Mr. Whitaker, you are behaving very unusually because you shouldn't be
making this many mistakes in your arguments.
I'm sorry, if I offend you.
sincerely
Alan Yu
Johnny Chien-Min Yu
Article: 94043 of soc.culture.hongkong
Path: news-4.nss.udel.edu!udel!news.intercon.com!uhog.mit.edu!news.kei.com!travelers.mail.cornell.edu!cornell!uw-beaver!uw-coco!nwnexus!news.halcyon.com!halcyon!bertie
From: ber...@halcyon.halcyon.com (Albert M.C. Tam)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.hongkong,soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: Freedom and Liberty
Date: 26 Dec 1994 21:40:33 GMT
Organization: NW NEXUS, Inc. -- Internet Made Easy (206) 455-3505
>
> [ 774 lines of reply deleted ... ]
>say. who is the lifeless dumbass on the net, eh?
>Merry christmas and happy new year,
--
__________________________________________________________________________
## Albert M.C Tam ( bertie on IRC ) ## Today is Mon Dec 26 13:22:24 1994
## ber...@halcyon.halcyon.com ## Only 917 day(s) til we all rot in
## URL http://www.armory.com/~bertie ## hell... oh well. maybe not.
Mr. Tam,
I'm the author.
I come here as a witness to tell what I saw and what I know, that accordin to
the facts which included report,classified document,experience to my best
knowledge.
The "Thought Detecting machine" is really harm. It's not only used on
reading people thoughts but now also had used the electronic-magnetic waves
as a weapton to get rid of some people to insure everything under control.
If everyone believe this machine is exitence then he/her can avoid to be
driven mad in case.
Finally, I would like to offer some hints to you to
find out if you are or had been investigated by this machine.
This tips apply to these who is in normal condition without health problem,
doesn't over work or spend a lot of energies, no special emotional
stress, and no personal problem.)
it's as follow;
a. When you are dreaming,you suddenly think about or recall things
(people & events) which happened in many, many years ago (even more than
twenty years before). And this dream did not relate with your
intention. Which mean the dreams didn't relate with what you did, whom
you met, or what you're trying to recall in the day or before you go
to sleep.
b. If you feel easier to make the day-dream than usual or suddenly
change your regular sleeping time to go to the bed at irregular time.
This condition always accompany with dreams, but the dreams is nothing about
what you intent to think. (You must satisfy that pre-requirement without health
problem,...etc.)
c. if you work alone in office or at home,your brain can't stop thinking
other thing which is absolutely disconnected with what you're doing.
You should try to stop the train of thoughts, if you can stop it and don't
have any personal problem which may cause your intention to thinking.
Then your thoughts is not only owned by yourself.
d. After you go to the bed,you fall to deep sleeping very fast and can't easy
to wake up as usual. It always accompany with dreams. (Remember! you
must satisfy the pre-condition.)
e. Your recent sleeping time have been longer than usual
but you still feel tire or dizzy and this should be a suddenly change.
If this condition accompany with dreams, then the machine might work on
your thoughts. If there is no dream with you in such condition, then the
most terrible thing might be the operator using the electromagnetic waves
to hurt your body.
Alan Yu
Johnny Chien-Min Yu
:: 1970s. "The University of Maryland of U.S.A. had invented a machine
::which can read people thoughts. The initial goal of this invention was
::to solve the problems of victims who were severely injured (in a state of
::coma) during accidents. It supposed to use by authority to read the mind
::of injured and to know the entire accident. Later, the C.I.A. learned
::and brought the patent on this invention." I think this report from
::newspaper already answer your question that although you can't do it but
::somebody indeed had invented it. The technology didn't release to general
::public nor to the academia (whom include you) because this patent belong
::to C.I.A. And that's why you don't believe such device.
>The existence of a newspaper report is not what I would consider
>convincing proof. The pressis full of inaccurate, misleading and false
>stories.
Dear Jeffery,
If this report about "thoughts detecting machine" which was printed on
newspaper as a joke, then the same machine would never be mentioned in a
Taiwan's classified military document. It is an impossible coincidence to
have to two sources from different area (Hong-kong & Taiwan), at different
time (1970s & 1984) with different political affiliations (newspaper and
government), points to the existence of this machine and attributes its
invention to the same country. The only logical explanation is that it
must be real. It is almost impossible to have another explanation.
:: Logically, when the C.I.A. purchased the patent on this machine, the
:: scientists and engineers who invented this machine joined the C.I.A. in
::order tokeep the patent as a secret. These scientists will remain in
::their position to prevent technology from being released and even misdirect
::others who's idea may be similar to those that help invented this machine.
>I'm not certain that I can follow this logic. If the CIA purchased the
>patent on this machine, then the existence, basic design and purpose of
>this machine was on public record at that time, and should still be on
>record. In the United States, patent applications require a detailed
>description of what is being patented. After the patent is granted, this
>information becomes available to the public (although few ever try to
>look at it).
Your opinion seems logical, but it is not necessarily true. You can
definitely find this patent if it is a product which will be commercially
marketed or unclassified military technologies. This is because these
patents are needed to protect their innovation from being copied. But, if
the patents was purchased by the intelligence agency, they can remove the
patent from the federal government record. This is because this patent
will not be used by general public. Also, it will only be used by the
agents. So they don't need protection from the federal government, they'll
protect it themselves. For example; Even the Coca cola keep and protect
their formula themselves to avoid imitation. That is why you can't find this
classified patent on the federal government record.
>In addition, if the CIA hired a R&D team from the University of Maryland,
>what did they do about their families. Even a small group would be
>missed. Surely, these people had friends, co-workers and families. When
>the whole group suddenly changes jobs and stops talking about their work,
>don't you think that someone would ask what happened, and why? I have
>difficulty imagining a secret, known by so many, that has survived 2 decades.
Your opinion is incorrect.
The inventors and developers won't change their positions and even after
join the C.I.A. They'll make everything appear to be normal in order to
avoid security leak. A patent is a secret even in business, so they won't
talk about it to his family or friends before they get the patent rights.
On the other hand, the security agency should have some agents in patent
office to look for any useful or powerful patent when the patent is being
applied. These agents will purchase the patent quickly if it is in the
interest of the security agency. Under this circumstance, these scientists
can't share the informations with their family because it will have become
an intelligence secret. Even if the inventors got the patent immeadiately
before the security agency contact them to purchase the patent right, the
inventors still might not share the informations about the patent to their
friends or family until they had sold a lot of the product to the market
in order to prevent competition.
Only after a fews years, will these inventors change their job to work at
special research institutions to further improve the technology of the patent.
The research institutions should be own by private companies but are
cooperating with security agencies. This will make everything appear to
be normal. So, nobody will notice these changes because it wasn't done
suddenly.
:: Although my major not in science but finance, I described the machine
:: working way with my experience and best knowledge according to the fact
:: which is exist. I do know some operators who are from Taiwan and use
:: such machine, if I need to go to court to defend what I have said, I'll
:: request the court to supena these people and give the order for them to
:; surrender the machine. But, right now, I can't force them to give up the
:: machine.
>What is your purpose with bringing this discussion to us? If you truly
>believe in the existence of this machine, and that it is being used in a
>manner contrary to the good of society, you should be taking it to
>court. You'll need proof, including documents and some reliable
>witnesses. This should not present a problem since you know some
>operators of this machine.
Your consideration is too simple . Do you know who own this patent? and
Who use this machine? Do you know what kind patent is this? The owner is a
top security agency. They have power to stop almost anything except for
the voice of the people. And the operators of the machine are people with
power such as C.I.A. or may be F.B.I.or may be polices, except some
citizens (who already passed the investigation and are allowed to
use the machine to co-operate with security agents for watching
some special group and area, because the security agency don't have enough
agents to do it).
Furthermore, the operators of this machine can know what you think and use
it to their advantage to stop or against you.
>While entertaining, bringing your case here will do nothing about this
>machine and those who operate it.
The goal to bring this discussion here is to inform everybody the existence
of this machine and to offer some tips to help others, in case, from being
driven mad. I'm here as a role of witness to tell what I saw and what I know
according to the report, classified document and experiences to my best
knowledge.
The "Thoughts detecting machine" is wireless, can be remotely controlled, use
the electronic-magnetic waves which can penetrate the metal, brick,wood.
The secret of the patent should be how to reduced the frequence enough,
so it can be accepted or received by the brain waves but still keep the
quality of it's penetrability.
The final goal of mine is to ask all citizens to keep a watchful vigilance
on this issue, so one day law might be made to regulate the machine and
operators. This is because this machine are not only used
for reading thoughts of people but also had been used as weapon to hurt
people by using high frequence waves.
:: By the way, how do you explain the report which was printed on the South-
::China morning post of Hong-Kong in 1970s ? And How do you explain the
:: classified document which I read about the "psychological language machine"
:: from the National Defence Dep. of Taiwan in 1984.
>Speaking for myself, I would never attempt to explain such ambiguous
>references. My curiosity might be aroused by the newspaper article, but
>I would have to question it's purpose and it's sources. Regarding a
>classified document from another country, since this document is
>something that I could not attain access to, it is hardly a document that
>I could base my beliefs upon.
The report should be true otherwise it can't mention the same thing
along with a classified document of another government. In the discussion
of a subject, a person refuse to consider the informations which make sense
and made a fast conclusion is a unusual situation. It only show everyone
you already put a blind on your eyes and closed your mind before you enter
the discussion.
: : After you only have read an article that was based on a real document, you
:: shouldn't be making your judgement so fast whether in favor of or
:: against the author. Furthermore, you have not even try to check this
:: document is true or not. Therefore, it is illogical for you to take
:: the position that you have taken unless you already has a fixed
:: position before you read my article.
>Sadly, I missed out on the beginning of this thread (and am to lazy to
>seek it). However, from what I have seen, Mark's position is
>understandable. Your proof is hardly convincing. If you produced the
>original newspaper article and the original classified document you might
>find more believers. If you produced one or two of the operators of this
>machine, willing to testify about the machine's existence, you would
>convince even more. Until you are actually able to produce the machine
>you will find that most people will remain skeptical.
Fortunately, I keep a book in my hand and there is a university
professor in Hong-Kong mentioned the report which was printed on Hong-Kong
newspaper. But the classified document can't be taken nor be copy because
it's against law. Your words show that you don't want to hear anything
about this machine. It also seems that you already have a fixed position
to defend, before you enter this discussion.
In 1984, I handled this classified document when I was a lieutenant colonel
in Taiwan, The document mentioned the military police Dep. purchased the
"Thoughts detecting machine"( In Taiwan, they named it as psychological
language machine.)
from the U.S.A.
This machine had been invented and used affectively for a long time.
>One last question: March 1981, former President Ronald Reagan was shot
>and nearly killed. Why wasn't the CIA able to detect the gunman's
>intentions and stop him?
The problem here is such kind equipments always deal with the law
abiding citizens first, but only can do a few to regulate the criminal.
Because the law abiding citizens have fixed job, fixed address, regular life
style and all have I.D.
The operators of machine can easy find them, check them, or work on them, they
are totally under control of operators of the machine.
On the other hand, These criminal almost have no fixed job, no fixed address,
no regular living style, come and run suddenly, or even no I.D. except the
leaders of mob ( they have the fixed address.). The operators of the machine
can't so easily find or got them and keep working on. That's why the
operators can't predicate the actions of the criminal.
So this kind events of crime always happen. By the way, the man who
attacked formal president Ronald Reagan, is mentally unstable.
The operators of machine won't waste their time to watch a person whom
is psychological unbalnce.
Finally, I would like to offer some hints to you to
find out if you are or had been investigated by this machine.
This tips apply to these who is in normal condition without health problem,
doesn't over work or spend a lot of energies, no special emotional
stress, and no personal problem.)
it's as follow;
a. When you are dreaming,you suddenly think about or recall things
(people & events) which happened in many, many years ago (even more than
twenty years before). And this dream did not relate with your
intention. Which mean the dreams didn't relate with what you did, whom
you met, or what you're trying to recall in the day or before you go
to sleep. So the dream doesn't belong to you. The operators might use
the machine to read your history from your dream.
b. If you feel easier to make the day-dream than usual or suddenly
change your regular sleeping time to go to the bed at irregular time.
This condition always accompany with dreams, but the dreams is nothing about
what you intent to think. (You must satisfy that pre-requirement without health
problem,...etc.)
c. if you work alone in office or at home,your brain can't stop thinking
other thing which is absolutely disconnected with what you're doing.
You should try to stop the train of thoughts, if you can't stop it and don't
have any personal problem which may cause your intention to thinking.
Then your thoughts is not only owned by yourself. This situation just
like a person fliping through a book to find the page which he need.
The operators might be searching the information which they need from your
thoughts.
d. After you go to the bed,you easily fall to deep sleeping than usual and
can't easily
to wake up as usual. It always accompany with dreams. (Remember! you
must satisfy the pre-condition.)
e. Your recent sleeping time have been longer than usual
but you still feel tire or dizzy and this should be a suddenly change.
If this condition accompany with dreams, then the machine might work on
your thoughts. If there is no dream with you in such condition, then the
most terrible thing might be the operator using the electromagnetic waves
to hurt your body.
I truly hope our readers will have knowledge of such machine and the
harm that it can bring. Furthermore, I hope you can take action, so that
law will be made to regulate this machine (Thoughts detect machine) and
operators who are authorized to use it.
Bien-Chao Iunn
Taiwan.
Bien-Chau Iunn
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 16:56:10 -0500 (EST)
From: "Dr. Chih-Ping Yeh" <y...@hub.eng.wayne.edu>
Subject: The murder of the All-People taxi driver
I just came back from Taiwan. I have visited several ratio stations and
talked with several All-People taxi drivers. The followings are my
understanding about the situation.
1. Mr. Wu, an All-People taxi driver, parked his cab in front of
Champagne Hall, owned by Chou, Shaw-Kong's brother. The Bamboo
gangsters, who operated the valet parking for the hotel, noticed the
sign of "All-People" on top of the cab, they immediately parked two
cars on both sides of cab. They on purposely parked these two cars so
closely to the cab that Mr. Wu could not even reach the door. He
went arguing with them. The gangsters told him that "We are the ones
to enforce THE LAW OF NEW-PARTY". They beat him up badly. He
returned with his friends, including Mr. Dai, for revenge. The
fight began and Mr. Dai was stabbed to death.
2 Few days before the murder, two persons called an All-People cab by
phone and asked him to take them to a suburban area near Taipei. It
was in the midnight. They asked the cab to stop underneath a bridge
where no people around. They got off the cab and shot the tires and
the doors of the cab with pistol. Then they told the cab driver that
they are New-Party's followers and they want to teach All-People a
lesson.
3 The ALL-People Taxis Club has been aware that they are now, not only an
object for the media and the police to pick on, but also the target for
the New Party's followers to attack. For their safety they decided to
remove all the signs and symbols of "All-People" from their cabs.
4 I agree with Prof. Chen Shih-Mong, the deputy mayor of Taipei, that
the murder is a political issue. It is due to "hate" arisen
intentionally by New Party during the election.
Johnny Chien-Min Yu
Article: 3484 of alt.current-events.usa
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From: jb...@mack.rt66.com (Jeffery)
Newsgroups: alt.current-events.usa
Subject: Re: freedom and liberty
Date: 30 Dec 1994 10:05:14 -0700
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>There was a lot of stuff here to quote, it has been removed. See
>previous posts.
>The problem with your thought detecting machine is that most people have
>trouble accepting it's existence. Your approach is that since you have
>seen a newspaper article and you have read a document that no one has
>access to, we should all accept the fact of the machines existence. You
>might find better discussion if you approached it as a "what if" proposition.
Your words seems logical, but here, the situation is different.
The machine was not only reported on the newspaper, but also written on a
classified document of a government (Taiwan). When I handled this classified
document, I served at the highest audit-center of military budget. It was
my jurisdiction to audit the classified or unclassified military spending.
The document indicated that the Military Police Dep. (Taiwan) request
to order the parts (for maintance) of the machine in 1984.
They translated the name as "psychological Language Machine".
>"Facts" used to support a belief or a position need to meet a few basic
>requirements. First of all they must be verifiable, that way others can
>view the "facts" for themselves. Secondly, the verifiable facts must be
>from a reliable source, this lends them to be believable.
I will agree with you if this in a common situation. But the "Thoughts
Detecting Machine" is quite different. Not only the
technology of this machine has never been released to general public but
it also has never been released to the academia. All evidence should have
been destroyed to avoid security leak since the security agency bought the
patent.
The reasons are the following:
1. To read people thoughts not only violate privacy rights but also against
constitution.
2. If people know the existence of the machine, this machine will not
work to its maximum potential.
3. If you know even more about this machine, you may be able to fool this
machine (like some people can trick the lie detector).
4. The operators of machine can use the high frequence eletro-magnetic
waves as a weapon to hurt, threaten, or even kill people. Such actions
are not only against the law, but also abuse human life & human rights.
So, they would rather keep the technology a secret and have most
scientists research on other area instead of this machine. They'll only
let the handful of selected scientists who had passed their
investigation to further develop this machine. So the technology will
never be acquired by general public. Except the report and document,
it's very hard to find any evidence.
On the other hand, the classified document of a government is a reliable
evidence.
>As a bad example: I've seen newspaper reports in 3 countries verifying
>that Elvis Presley is still alive. In the U.S. alone, I've seen these
>reports in at least 4 papers, some of them having several followup
>stories. Therefore, Elvis Presley is still alive.
The problem here is that there is not any document of government to support
the report which Elvis Presley is alive. This makes a lot of difference
to consider a report is true or fake.
>If you wish us to accept the existence of this machine as fact, present
>verifiable, believable evidence. The only evidence that meets these
>criteria is that which we can look up for ourselves. If such evidence is
>not available, then treat the subject as a possibility. Present the
>machine and it's operators as a hypothetical situation.
I do know some operators of the machine. Some of them are from Taiwan and
some of them are citizens of U.S.A. I have angered them since I talked about
the machine to the general public.
Because the operators of this machine don't want anyone to
be alive who know what they do and understand the functions of the machine.
There is a most popular way of the operators to deal with such situation.
That is to drive people mad with their machine. From Taiwan to United
States, I already saw or knew some people who met such treatment. I'm the
only exception, because I know the functions of this machine pretty
well. Also I know how to defend and protect myself.
Before I find their control station of the machine, I can't offer the
evidence right now.
Because the operators who I know will all deny everything include the
machine, even some of them have machine at their home.
>The persons who honestly believe in this machine based upon the evidence
>you've provided are probably quite busy scanning the tabloids for the
>latest Elvis sighting.
Here, I disagree with you because the situation is different
(explanation as above). The machine is really harm also some of the
operators are very cruel. You can't imaginate the terrible actions which
some cruel operators had already made. Some of their actions are more
like animals than human.
I came here as a role of witness to tell what I saw and what I know based
on facts, which include report, classified document and experiences to my
best knowledge. If I keep quiet then nobody will aware it. The operators
will keep using machine to abuse human life & human rights because people
don't recognize the machine exist. So I must talk about the machine right
now.
I just read an article posted to alt.human-brain newsgroup concerning this
machine. The author of the article stated that he recently watched a
science program on the cable discover channel - program "2000" in which
the announcer of the program said the following:
"A low electro-magnetic waves machine was used in insane asylums, to
quiet unruly of disturb patients without the use of drug."
If the above report are all true, it mean that what I said about
the "Thoughts Detecting Machine" should be also true because both
machine should be made with same scientific principles, or even both
machine are almost same but use in different way. This also means that
electromagnetic waves can interact with brain waves and influence the
activities of the brain.
I hope everyone has the knowledge of the machine
then can avoid to be driven mad in case. (You won't get hurt if you believe
the machine is existence but didn't meet the machine. On the other hand,
You may have a big problem even may lose the life, if you don't know the
machine but meet the operators).
I would like to let you know that how to know they use the
electromagnetic waves to detect your thoughts. I'll offer some tips to
you to find out if you are or had been investigated by this machine.
Of course, you should be in normal condition without health problem, no
over work, no emotional stress (such as loss of love one), no special
personal problem, then you can use the tips. It's as follow;
1. When you're dreaming, you suddenly think about or recall events
(people or things) which happened many, many years ago (even more ten or
twenty years before). The dream of a person should relate with what he
did, whom he met, what he try to recall in the day or before he go to
sleep. If your dream didn't connect with above situation but suddenly
think the events (things & persons) which happened many, many years
ago. The dreams don't belong to you. It might the operator use the
machine to read your history through your recalling in dream.
2. If you feel easily to make the day-dream than usual or suddenly change
your regular sleeping time to go to the bed at irregular time.
If the sleeping time which always accompany with lots dreams, the machine
might work on you.
3. If you work alone in office or at home, your brain can't stop think
other things which is absolutely disconnected with what you're doing.
This kind thinking should be very messy. If you try to stop the train
of thoughts but can't make it. The thoughts didn't belong to you.
This is just like a guy flipping a book to find the page which he
needs. The operators might be searching the information from your
thoughts. (Except it is your intention from personal problem or special
emotional stress.)
4. After you go to the bed, you easily fall to deep sleeping than usual and
can't easily wake up as usual.
This situation is always accompanied with lots dreams.
5. Your recent sleeping time had been longer than usual but you still feel
tire or dizzy.
If it is accompanied with lots dreams then the machine might work on your
thoughts. But, if there is no dream, the most terrible thing is the
operators of the machine might use the electromagnetic waves to hurt you.
There are some hints to offer for making sure if your body are being shot by
the radiation waves! It's as follow:
1. The area near sphenoid bone (between sideburn,temple and eyebrow of your
face feel pressure but there is nothing touching your face.(this way is
hurting your kidney).
2. Your kidney feel pressure (or as being stung by a bee) making you to fart
and there is nothing touching your (organ) body (If this way keep going
frequently it'll reduce your ability to have sex and hurt your
kidney).
3. There is deep pressure which suddenly hit your stomach. (it can also
make you to fart or go to the bathroom clean your intestine.)
4. You legs are suddenly hit by the high pressure and seem bees to
sting your legs.(this way can make you hardly to walk and hurt your legs.)
5. If the radiation waves of high pressure shoot on your heart,it'll hurt
your heart or let you get heart disease. If you don't move right away,then
the high pressure will broke your aorta of heart then to kill you.(At this
time, don't stay the fixed position and fast move away will save your
live.)
I do believe that if everyone remember these tips( or hints) then even the
secret of the machine never be released. We stil can avoid the machine
to be used on us also avoid the hurms because the operators will take risk to
be awared when they use the machine.
I truly hope our responsible reader will have knowledge of such machine
and the harm that it can bring. Furthermore,I hope you can take action, so
that laws will be made to regulate this machine (Thoughts Detecting
Machine or psychological language Machine) and operators who are authorized
to use it.
Sincerely Yours
Alan Yu
Liu Ming-Han
Bien-Chao Iunn <mcy...@pollux.usc.edu> wrote:
>I got another message from Joanna Chien about New Party's involvement
>in the murder of the All-Citizen Cab driver.
>
>Mitch Yang(or Bien-Chao Iunn)
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>From: joa...@merle.acns.nwu.edu
>Subject: The Truth
>Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 15:57:14 -0600 (CST)
>
> I've read many articles about the riot, but none of them really
>said what really happened. A lot of them are just guessing, or second guessing
>what media told us. A lot of articles criticize the media, at the same time
>took the imformation as given.
>
> I was there during the whole event. I would say that not a lot of
>people in Taiwan are aware of what really happened, but thanks to the
>reporters and photographers from TNT (one of the most unbiased underground
>Taiwanese ratio and TV station) who took me with them during the whole event,
>I was able to observe the whole event by my own eyes.
You were there during the whole event? since 2:00am of Dec 21?
> Here are what happened:
Were you there?
> Dec 21st, around 2:00am, cab driver A (sorry I don't remember the name,
>I will use A, B, and C to represent the drivers involved) parked outside the
>night club of Ton-ee (all president) hotel and went to get some late night
>food.
and you were there and asked him what he was doing?
>He returned around 3:00am and found that his car was sandwiched by two
so you waited for him until 3am?
>other cars. He tried to get out but bumped into the car behind him. (which is
>not a big deal because that's what the bumpers are for) One of the valet clerk
no. it might not be a big deal to you, but to other car owners,
it might be a big deal.
>ran out with 5 or 6 others right away and said, "we are the bamboo gang, we
>belonged to New Party, you All Citizen Taxi Association deserved to die."
and you heard all that?
>They tried to crab driver A out of the car, but fortunately driver A ran away
>with minor head injury. Some by passers who saw the beating called the All
>Citizen ratio station for help.
is this what "happened" as you claimed? Did you listen to those
"callers?"
>The host of the station thought it was a
>minor car accident qurrel and asked drivers who were around there to go
>there and see what happened.
a minor car accident querrel would need "drivers who were around there"
to go see what happened? what happened to the police?
> Two drivers who were around that area went to help. When driver B,
>and C arrived there, twenty some people ran out of the night club with the New
>Party flag and dragged both of the out of the cars. At this time, driver A
>was running toward Chon(1) Sun(1) police station for help. Driver B was beaten
>with iron, wooden club and fists. B ended up in intense care afterwards.
>Driver C was dragged into the night club. His stomach was cut open with a big
>knife, and he was stubbed into the heart. All his inner organ came out. His
>body was thrown to the street afterwards. He was 31 when he died.
You were there during the "whole event" and you did not do anything
about it? why didn't you even call the police? You just watched them
fight?
> Now let's find out what police could of done but did not do. Driver A
>ran to the Chon Sun police station to ask for help. The police on duty said
>to him, "If your friends were injured, then you can suit them." He WOULD NOT
>send any help.
were you in the police station too? I thought you were in the place
of the incident all the time.
>By the time driver A went back to help his friend, driver c
>already died. One more disgusting thing about the police: there were two
>uniformed police there during the killing. Drivers arrived earier after the
>killing saw them letting the murderers go.
You saw that happened?
>Later on that day, Senator Chen
>Won(3) Chang(1) went to the police station with those two police batch numbers
>and question the head of the police who those two police were and why they let
>the murderers go, the answer was, "that's not possible." Those two police were
>protected and was never found. (How can this be possible!? We had the batch
>numbers and we could not locate the police?! If there is no political pressure
>then tell me what it is.)
Did legislator Chen pursue further? like finding out who those cops
were? he had the badge numbers, right?
> Around 10am in the same morning, a tent was set up with a cascade,
I'd guess you were there, too. I'm impressed with your energy.
>flowers, banners, and the photo of the victim. Traffic was stopped in the
>street, but some of the volunteer All Citizen taxi drivers were very nicely
>directing the traffic and told everyone that some accident happened that
>morning. Everything was really peaceful. I was there about 10 pm. Hundreds
>of people were gathered to memorate the drivers. People are donating money,
>talking about this tragedy, burning paper money, you know, things that
>Taiwanese people do during the funeral time. Everything was really peaceful.
>
> Around 10:30pm, someone yelled that bamboo gang were coming. Two
>people showed up with clubs, and were beaten up badly. (what do you think?
>two people against angry public)
What do I think? I think those whoever beat the two people
were ruthless mobs. What have they done to deserve that? How were
you guys sure they were the bamboo gang members? did they wear any
name tag that said "we're bamboo gang"? I think it's disgusting,
what about you?
>Later on that evening the news on the three
>channel said that they were the police. All Citizen was once again blacken.
One of the persons who got beaten up badly was a poor high school
student.
> 12 midnight, riot police showed up, and starting violent police
>surpressing. Then suddenly gas bombs, waters, clubs were everywhere. 31 taxi
>were severly damaged without any reason. Three drivers were arrested, people
>were beaten up, the front entrance of the Ton-ee hotel was set on fire.
Violent police surpressing? care to elaborate on that? what made
them do such "violent police surpressing"?
> Afterward, the head of the All-Citizen Taxi Association was
>interviewed. He said that no one knows where the gas bombs was from. None of
>the weapons the police found belongs to them.
I see. The cops must have bombed themselves.
>The reason they set up the
>tent is that it is the trandition of Taiwan to set up the tent. The purpose
>to set it at the accident site is to show the anger to the hotel who rented the
>night club to the gangsters. None of them are preparing for a riot. One of the
>TNT reporter reported that he saw the people in the hotel set the fire
>themselves and put up the fire right away. All those methods are the usual KMT
>tactics used to fight DPP.
Sure. You were there during the whole incident.
> 5am Dec 22nd, the tent was dismantle, and the drivers were "removed".
>The actual riot came to the end. 1221 becomes one of the names on the
>Taiwanese movement.
An ugly name, perhaps.
> 4 days later (sorry I am not sure 4 or 5 days) the murderers were
>arrested, and was given an 6 minutes interview by three channel unhand-cuffed.
they turned themselves in. When people turned themselves in, the cops
did not handcuff them.
>The three drivers who were arrested were in jail and were not allowed to see
>anyone, not even the lawyers. The part the angry me the most is that the
oh? you were in the police station, too?
>murderer said that the victim was holding the knife at the time, he just
>crabbed it from him and the next thing he knew is that the driver was killed.
>He, the murdered, is actually the victim. He wanted to suit the death. How
>radiculous! The autopsy proves that the killing is very "professional" and
>"clean". How could it be an accident and self defense like the murderer said?
That's for the judge to decide.
> Several days later, Won(4) Fo(2) Whei(4) (ten thousand budda
>association) was so angry at the act of the government, it declared the
>establishment of the Taiwan nation on its own. They made the flag of Taiwan,
>even the ID for Taiwanese people. (if you went in with R.O.C. ID, they will
>issue you a Taiwanese ID) Within a day, one of their four ratio stations was
>shut down. As far as I know there are at least five thousand citizens of
>Taiwan.
hurrah! now, it "IS" time to get back to UN.
> Before I left, the All Citizen start filling law suit against the
>police for damaging the property of the people.
I could imagine that.
> I would say this is very much a political killing. First, Jaw
>Shau-Kong's brother Jaw Shau-Hwa is one of the leader of the bamboo gang.
what's his position? how much do you know about the bamboo gang?
how did you find out? told by someone? or were you there, too?
>Therefore the bamboo gang is the supporter of New Party. Second, Hwa is also
hmmm..... interesting concept. Done a survey or something?
>one of the owner of the night club.
where did you get this? read it somewhere?
>Third, Hwa also owns a taxi company.
which one? just curious.
>The
>purpose of the All Citizen is to fight the unequal treatment of the policy.
>Once they win the fight, hwa will lose all his benefit.
how so?
>Fourth, All Citizen
>were the supporters of A-Bien, therefore, Jaw Shau-Kong hates them to death.
>He said during the election, "All Citizen drivers are violent, once I am
>elected, I am going to lock them all up."
bs!!! where and when did he say that? If you can't prove it, I
will start calling you a liar after next post.
>Fifth, New Party tried to do
>everything to blacken the All Citizen. On their underground radio station,
>they keep broadcast how bad the drivers are, some ignorant people (which is a
>lot of people) believe them.
I thought it was the callers who called in.
hmm.... ignorant people, interesting.
>One the result of that, exactly 148 attacks had
>happened to All Citizen Taxi drivers. None of the drivers ever attacked
>anyone.
oh? did you also see the report on AP taxi drivers' past violence?
>The head of the All Citizen once said, " if you ever run into a rude
>driver, wrote down their batch number, I will bring them to you and call you
>mama."
a statement ad hoc, it would be pretty stupid for the drivers to
do such a thing after such a promise. Let's keep our fingers
crossed that they will be non-violent "forever."
>Since them, no one ever went to him. It's obvious those are the rumor
>that New Party sent out.
It is obvious that you're trying to smir the NP whenever you can.
>Two days before the killing, on the New Party
>underground ratio station, during the call in time, one listener said, "all
>citizen drivers, you just wait. If I run into you, no matter night or day,
>you are going to be hurt." Right after that, instead of telling the audience
>not to seek for violence, the host gave one of the batch number of the All
>Citizen driver on the air. (so, who is the one that provoke violent?) All the
>conversation was recorded by one of the listeners of TNT. Now they are trying
>to see whether there is any legal binding.
why did he give out the badge number? plus, aren't you talking about
the New Thinking Station? the NP has already announced that New Thinking
does not represent their view, but New Taipei (New Hope in the future.)
> This is what actually happened. If anyone has any questions, feel
>free to write to ask me at joa...@merle.acns.nwu.edu
>
>Joanna Chien
>
>--------------
Everything you wrote happened? Interesting.
Bien-Chao Iunn
Mitch Yang (Bien-Chao Iunn)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Dec 94 17:02:25 EST
From: Tien-Hsien Chang <tch...@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
Here is another side of the story regarding the recent death of a
taxi driver and the subsequent demonstration and police crackdown in Taipei.
I received this mail from one of my friends who is on the forefront of the
Taiwanese movement. I would welcome more information.
***************************************************
The murder of the ALL-PEOPLE taxi driver really went too far. It's
the New Party and the Bamboo Ganster. The taxi drivers made a news brief to
all TV and newspaper reporters. Not a word of their story were reported.
However, when the six killer went to the police, every details of their
story were on the news. The stories are totally diferent. The New party
ganster killed and then acted like a victem. The media are acting like
accomplice of the killers.
***********************************************************************
As to me, this is simply another incidence of the Chinese media
violence machine acting at its best. These media have been accomplices for
the past 40 years. It is our responsibility to help remove and reconstruct
an impartial channel of information in Taiwan.
Ah Den
Tom Li
In article <3ecjod$p...@pollux.usc.edu>, mcy...@pollux.usc.edu (Bien-Chao Iunn) writes...
>I just got this message from Dr. Yeh Chih-Ping who just came back from
>Taiwan.
>
>Bien-Chau Iunn
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 16:56:10 -0500 (EST)
>From: "Dr. Chih-Ping Yeh" <y...@hub.eng.wayne.edu>
>Subject: The murder of the All-People taxi driver
>
>I just came back from Taiwan. I have visited several ratio stations and
>talked with several All-People taxi drivers. The followings are my
>understanding about the situation.
Talked with several radio stations and several All-People taxi drivers???
Sure we all know the reputation of those radio stations and All-People
Taxi Club.
>1. Mr. Wu, an All-People taxi driver, parked his cab in front of
> Champagne Hall, owned by Chou, Shaw-Kong's brother. The Bamboo
> gangsters, who operated the valet parking for the hotel, noticed the
> sign of "All-People" on top of the cab, they immediately parked two
> cars on both sides of cab. They on purposely parked these two cars so
> closely to the cab that Mr. Wu could not even reach the door. He
> went arguing with them. The gangsters told him that "We are the ones
> to enforce THE LAW OF NEW-PARTY". They beat him up badly. He
> returned with his friends, including Mr. Dai, for revenge. The
> fight began and Mr. Dai was stabbed to death.
According to Taiwan's newspapers, Chou Shaw-Kong's brother is Chou Shaw-Hwa.
Chou Shaw-Kong denied his brother is the owner of Champagne Hall night club.
And this club was burned to ground by ALL-People taxi drivers during the riot.
>2 Few days before the murder, two persons called an All-People cab by
> phone and asked him to take them to a suburban area near Taipei. It
> was in the midnight. They asked the cab to stop underneath a bridge
> where no people around. They got off the cab and shot the tires and
> the doors of the cab with pistol. Then they told the cab driver that
> they are New-Party's followers and they want to teach All-People a
> lesson.
If this is true, then these two persons should be condemned.
>3 The ALL-People Taxis Club has been aware that they are now, not only an
> object for the media and the police to pick on, but also the target for
> the New Party's followers to attack. For their safety they decided to
> remove all the signs and symbols of "All-People" from their cabs.
The reputation of ALL-People Taxis Club is well-known.
Who attacked the KMT headquarter last April? Hundreds of ALL-People taxi
drivers did it.
Who threw gasoline bombs and beated up the police and burned the street cars
during the anti-nuke-4-protest and underground radio station raid incident?
Hundreds of ALL-People taxi drivers did it.
Who beated up the passenger just because this passenger said he will not vote
for DPP candidates? ALL-People taxi driver did it.
That's why they are on the police's watch list.
>4 I agree with Prof. Chen Shih-Mong, the deputy mayor of Taipei, that
> the murder is a political issue. It is due to "hate" arisen
> intentionally by New Party during the election.
Prof. Chen Shih-Mong denounced the police putting down the riot and claimed
the murder is a "political issue". Later the reporters asked Chen Shiu-Ben
what he thinks about Chen Shih-Mong's statement. Chen Shiu-Ben refused to
comment but said he supported the police's action then went to hospital to
visit policemen (about 10) who were beaten up by ALL-People taxi drivers.
Later TI legislator, Yeh Yao-Pong asked for calm and said this is probably
just a parking dispute and dont politicize the incident.
Two murder suspects were arrested. They denied they are bamboo gansters
and NPers. One of them claimed he is a KMTer.
Anyway, life is precious, this taxi driver does not deserve to die. These
two murder suspects will be punished. Now, Mr. Mitch Yang and Dr. Yeh,
how about the crimes committed by ALL-People taxi drivers in the past???
Tom
Bien-Chao Iunn
Chao Shao-Kong's brother Chao Shao-Hwa is the owner of the
underground dancing hall in Tong-I. He hires Bamboo Gangs to
guard that place and provide valet parking. These gansters
claimed that they are NPers while attacking and eventually
killing the All-People taxi driver.
Bien-Chao Iunn
the victim of the murder, Mr. Dai Chen-Chang.
------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 14:25 +1000
From: YT...@TWNCTU01.BITNET
Subject: Re:The Truth
The victim of the All-People Incident, Mr. Dai Chen-Chang, was a
unselfish, generous, and bright young man. He just donated
NT$20,000 to the Taiwan Environmental Protection Union a few weeks
before his death.
jack chao
this morning. Iunn also modified the last line, my original line was "during
the fight". At the end of the posting, I asked "Is this true ?" I just quoted what
pro-TI magazines said and I was trying to know more from NP side.
I don't know how true it is, but last month's Mei-Hwa Reports had quite
lot articles about KMT and DPP's links to rascals and gangsters. There
wasn't any article listing NP's involvelment with rascals though.
Actually in the Taiwan Weekly (12/31/94), there is a reader's article complaining
about DPP is turning into KMT-like such as using money and rascals.
At least, I see every one doesn't like to see their favorite party has any thing
to do with rascals. That's good. Now, resume the accusation war, ... :-)
Jack
jack chao
>
>2 Few days before the murder, two persons called an All-People cab by
> phone and asked him to take them to a suburban area near Taipei. It
> was in the midnight. They asked the cab to stop underneath a bridge
> where no people around. They got off the cab and shot the tires and
> the doors of the cab with pistol. Then they told the cab driver that
> they are New-Party's followers and they want to teach All-People a
> lesson.
>
My two cents speculation on this incidence :
KMTers did it to create tentions between NP and DPP. Most NPers were KMTers
and they should be smart enough to beat up All-people rascal drivers and
claiming that they are KMTers. It would be very stupid to tell their true identity
by ganging beating people in the night at dark corner. Right ?
Many DPPers were KMTers before, such as Hsu Hsin-Liang (president want to be),
they should know this old trick well.
>
>4 I agree with Prof. Chen Shih-Mong, the deputy mayor of Taipei, that
> the murder is a political issue. It is due to "hate" arisen
> intentionally by New Party during the election.
Don't be so sure, Docotor. Chen Shih-Mong came from the high up KMT
family. He is WSR. How can you be so sure that he is not the spy trying
to gain your trust then rotten you up from inside ? As a WSR, Chen Shih-Mong
didn't try to bridge the gap between WSR and BSR but trying so hard
to worse it. I doubt about his intension very much. In his grandfather's
era, there were many many CCPers did the similar tricks while they
were hiding in the KMT. Best thing for you to do is listening to what
DPP mayor Chen Sui-Bian said after the incidence. Chen SB didn't
endorse Chen SM's statement at all ! Chen SB is smart and thinks the
best for the Taipei residents. Give him a chance, especially he is your
fellow DPPer. Chen SM is a big jerk, real big one, I bet. Let's see how soon
he reveals his tail. Here is my stick in the ground about him.
Jack
>
Bien-Chao Iunn
in the murder of the All-Citizen Cab driver.
Mitch Yang(or Bien-Chao Iunn)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: joa...@merle.acns.nwu.edu
Subject: The Truth
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 15:57:14 -0600 (CST)
I've read many articles about the riot, but none of them really
said what really happened. A lot of them are just guessing, or second guessing
what media told us. A lot of articles criticize the media, at the same time
took the imformation as given.
I was there during the whole event. I would say that not a lot of
people in Taiwan are aware of what really happened, but thanks to the
reporters and photographers from TNT (one of the most unbiased underground
Taiwanese ratio and TV station) who took me with them during the whole event,
I was able to observe the whole event by my own eyes.
Here are what happened:
Dec 21st, around 2:00am, cab driver A (sorry I don't remember the name,
I will use A, B, and C to represent the drivers involved) parked outside the
night club of Ton-ee (all president) hotel and went to get some late night
food. He returned around 3:00am and found that his car was sandwiched by two
other cars. He tried to get out but bumped into the car behind him. (which is
not a big deal because that's what the bumpers are for) One of the valet clerk
ran out with 5 or 6 others right away and said, "we are the bamboo gang, we
belonged to New Party, you All Citizen Taxi Association deserved to die."
They tried to crab driver A out of the car, but fortunately driver A ran away
with minor head injury. Some by passers who saw the beating called the All
Citizen ratio station for help. The host of the station thought it was a
minor car accident qurrel and asked drivers who were around there to go
there and see what happened.
Two drivers who were around that area went to help. When driver B,
and C arrived there, twenty some people ran out of the night club with the New
Party flag and dragged both of the out of the cars. At this time, driver A
was running toward Chon(1) Sun(1) police station for help. Driver B was beaten
with iron, wooden club and fists. B ended up in intense care afterwards.
Driver C was dragged into the night club. His stomach was cut open with a big
knife, and he was stubbed into the heart. All his inner organ came out. His
body was thrown to the street afterwards. He was 31 when he died.
Now let's find out what police could of done but did not do. Driver A
ran to the Chon Sun police station to ask for help. The police on duty said
to him, "If your friends were injured, then you can suit them." He WOULD NOT
send any help. By the time driver A went back to help his friend, driver c
already died. One more disgusting thing about the police: there were two
uniformed police there during the killing. Drivers arrived earier after the
killing saw them letting the murderers go. Later on that day, Senator Chen
Won(3) Chang(1) went to the police station with those two police batch numbers
and question the head of the police who those two police were and why they let
the murderers go, the answer was, "that's not possible." Those two police were
protected and was never found. (How can this be possible!? We had the batch
numbers and we could not locate the police?! If there is no political pressure
then tell me what it is.)
Around 10am in the same morning, a tent was set up with a cascade,
flowers, banners, and the photo of the victim. Traffic was stopped in the
street, but some of the volunteer All Citizen taxi drivers were very nicely
directing the traffic and told everyone that some accident happened that
morning. Everything was really peaceful. I was there about 10 pm. Hundreds
of people were gathered to memorate the drivers. People are donating money,
talking about this tragedy, burning paper money, you know, things that
Taiwanese people do during the funeral time. Everything was really peaceful.
Around 10:30pm, someone yelled that bamboo gang were coming. Two
people showed up with clubs, and were beaten up badly. (what do you think?
two people against angry public) Later on that evening the news on the three
channel said that they were the police. All Citizen was once again blacken.
12 midnight, riot police showed up, and starting violent police
surpressing. Then suddenly gas bombs, waters, clubs were everywhere. 31 taxi
were severly damaged without any reason. Three drivers were arrested, people
were beaten up, the front entrance of the Ton-ee hotel was set on fire.
Afterward, the head of the All-Citizen Taxi Association was
interviewed. He said that no one knows where the gas bombs was from. None of
the weapons the police found belongs to them. The reason they set up the
tent is that it is the trandition of Taiwan to set up the tent. The purpose
to set it at the accident site is to show the anger to the hotel who rented the
night club to the gangsters. None of them are preparing for a riot. One of the
TNT reporter reported that he saw the people in the hotel set the fire
themselves and put up the fire right away. All those methods are the usual KMT
tactics used to fight DPP.
5am Dec 22nd, the tent was dismantle, and the drivers were "removed".
The actual riot came to the end. 1221 becomes one of the names on the
Taiwanese movement.
4 days later (sorry I am not sure 4 or 5 days) the murderers were
arrested, and was given an 6 minutes interview by three channel unhand-cuffed.
The three drivers who were arrested were in jail and were not allowed to see
anyone, not even the lawyers. The part the angry me the most is that the
murderer said that the victim was holding the knife at the time, he just
crabbed it from him and the next thing he knew is that the driver was killed.
He, the murdered, is actually the victim. He wanted to suit the death. How
radiculous! The autopsy proves that the killing is very "professional" and
"clean". How could it be an accident and self defense like the murderer said?
Several days later, Won(4) Fo(2) Whei(4) (ten thousand budda
association) was so angry at the act of the government, it declared the
establishment of the Taiwan nation on its own. They made the flag of Taiwan,
even the ID for Taiwanese people. (if you went in with R.O.C. ID, they will
issue you a Taiwanese ID) Within a day, one of their four ratio stations was
shut down. As far as I know there are at least five thousand citizens of
Taiwan.
Before I left, the All Citizen start filling law suit against the
police for damaging the property of the people.
I would say this is very much a political killing. First, Jaw
Shau-Kong's brother Jaw Shau-Hwa is one of the leader of the bamboo gang.
Therefore the bamboo gang is the supporter of New Party. Second, Hwa is also
one of the owner of the night club. Third, Hwa also owns a taxi company. The
purpose of the All Citizen is to fight the unequal treatment of the policy.
Once they win the fight, hwa will lose all his benefit. Fourth, All Citizen
were the supporters of A-Bien, therefore, Jaw Shau-Kong hates them to death.
He said during the election, "All Citizen drivers are violent, once I am
elected, I am going to lock them all up." Fifth, New Party tried to do
everything to blacken the All Citizen. On their underground radio station,
they keep broadcast how bad the drivers are, some ignorant people (which is a
lot of people) believe them. One the result of that, exactly 148 attacks had
happened to All Citizen Taxi drivers. None of the drivers ever attacked
anyone. The head of the All Citizen once said, " if you ever run into a rude
driver, wrote down their batch number, I will bring them to you and call you
mama." Since them, no one ever went to him. It's obvious those are the rumor
that New Party sent out. Two days before the killing, on the New Party
underground ratio station, during the call in time, one listener said, "all
citizen drivers, you just wait. If I run into you, no matter night or day,
you are going to be hurt." Right after that, instead of telling the audience
not to seek for violence, the host gave one of the batch number of the All
Citizen driver on the air. (so, who is the one that provoke violent?) All the
conversation was recorded by one of the listeners of TNT. Now they are trying
to see whether there is any legal binding.
This is what actually happened. If anyone has any questions, feel
Y Gea
amount of money, but it does not mean he(or she) can go outside and fight
with any on
Danny Chi
Dear Mr. Yang,
I think Joanna Chien's story has gone too far this time. Spreading
such a totally one-sided article won't do anything good to the whole
tragic incident.
This incident happened just one block from the hotel I stayed while
I was in Taiwan last month. I also saw part of the riot scene.
Let's leave it to the court to decide who should be punished for the killing
or the riot. Let's learn something from Mayor Ah Bian.
-- Danny Chi
For your reference, here's AP's report of this incident:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject:Taiwan Cops, Rioters Clasho
Copyright: 1994 by The Associated Press
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 94 20:40:10 PST
TAIPEI, Taiwan (AP) -- About 500 Taipei taxi drivers and their
supporters who were mourning a dead colleague tossed firebombs and
rocks at riot police on Thursday, injuring 11 people, police said.
The clash erupted when 1,000 riot police tried to disperse the
drivers, who were carrying an empty coffin and occupied a street
outside a hotel where a cabbie was killed Wednesday.
Police said the front gate of the President Hotel was destroyed
by fire and about 20 cabs were smashed before water cannon were
trained on the crowd.
Cabbies threw rocks and firebombs at police and ignited
canisters of gasoline outside the hotel and at an intersection.
Police responded by smashing cabs with clubs.
Nine policemen were hospitalized with head and spine injuries or
burns and three people were arrested, police said.
Taxi driver Tai Cheng-chang was killed and three other people
were injured Wednesday in a brawl over parking spaces with clerks
at the plush hotel in central Taipei.
Taxi drivers accused the clerks of stabbing Tai.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Guanghua Gao
money plus mafia politics, DDP is playing mob politics and NT is playing
gangster politics. These are the allegation by two of the three parties against
the othe one. Here is the Taiwan experiences LDH so proude of. Want to sell it
to the world?
Guanghua Gao
Karl Tsai
|>
|> In article <3eepn5$e...@pollux.usc.edu>, mcy...@pollux.usc.edu (Bien-Chao Iunn) writes...
|>
|> Also think about how you have "believed" Joanna Chien's posting. Chien
|> claimed he witnessed the incident from THE VERY BEGINNING to the end.
[deleted]
Long time no see, Tom, Jack, Danny, and the rest of the gangs ...
We really should thank Mr. Yang and his coworkers draging us out of the hopeless
holiday atmosphere with their *fine-eyewitness-reports*.
It looks like this newgroup is fully prepared for a happy 1995!
OO-RIGHT, I love it; let's party :)
--
Karl Tsai
Bien-Chao Iunn
of the murder of the All-People Taxi Driver.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Dec 94 11:47:55 CST
From: "M. Chen" <m...@leepe.iis.sinica.edu.tw>
Regarding the practice of Taiwan's media, I am extremely disgusted by
their discrimination against All_People taxi drivers.
From the very beginning, the drivers were described as a group of mobs.
In defending police's uncessarily destroying all the taxis, the police chief
claimed that police were human and had temper. And media ACCEPTED this!
Then when those gangsters gave themselves in, under the pressure from police
through private channels, they were allowed give press conference at the
police station !!
All the TV and news papers cover this news. Those gangsters acted as if they
were victims, but not the murderer, and no press questioned about this!!
Worse yet, no ALL-PEOPLE were interviewed or asked for comments for balancing
the opinions. Those gangsters were trested nicely by the police, no hand-cuff
or anything. They were not even called the "suspects". The press called them
"the relevants".
ALL-PEOPLE gave a press conference yesterday. No TV news covered this !!
China Times did not cover it either. United News had a small paragraph saying
nothing. Freedom Daily used 1/8 of page to cover this. The media's bias is
obvious.
Reagrds,
Meng Chang Chen
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technology Research Division
Hi! I live in Taiwan, and I would like to say that what Dr. Yeh said
was NOT truth.
: -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
: From: "Dr. Chih-Ping Yeh" <y...@hub.eng.wayne.edu>
: I just came back from Taiwan. I have visited several ratio stations and
: talked with several All-People taxi drivers. The followings are my
: understanding about the situation.
: 1. Mr. Wu, an All-People taxi driver, parked his cab in front of
: Champagne Hall, owned by Chou, Shaw-Kong's brother. The Bamboo
This was not true. Mr. Chao Shaw-Kong denied his brother's involvement
with the Champagne Hall. His brother, Mr. Chao Shaw-Hua, was not in
Taiwan when the incident happened, so he couldn't make the statement
himself. However, the owner of the Champagne Hall (I couldn't remember
his name) made the clarification 2 or 3 days after the incident. He
(the owner) said he has nothing to do with the New Party. On the contrary,
he has close relations with a DPP legislator, Mr. Chou Bao-Lun. So far,
Mr. Chou hasn't denied this relationship.
: gangsters, who operated the valet parking for the hotel, noticed the
: sign of "All-People" on top of the cab, they immediately parked two
: cars on both sides of cab. They on purposely parked these two cars so
: closely to the cab that Mr. Wu could not even reach the door. He
The statements above was not correct. Mr. Wu parked his car and went
drinking with friends. When he returned he found his car blocked, then
the fight bigan.
: went arguing with them. The gangsters told him that "We are the ones
: to enforce THE LAW OF NEW-PARTY". They beat him up badly. He
: returned with his friends, including Mr. Dai, for revenge. The
: fight began and Mr. Dai was stabbed to death.
Incorrect. Mr. Dai was killed in the THIRD fight. At first Mr. Wu was
beat up in the FIRST fight, then he called his friends for a SECOND fight.
Still lost. Then he summoned other taxi drivers for another fight,
through the radio system in the car. If he won one of the first two fights,
Mr. Dai would not have been killed. Personally, I feel Mr. Wu should
share some responsibility for Mr. Dai's death.
There was more marvelous part of the story curculated from TNT (a "MOST
UNBIASED UNDERGROUND RADIOSTATION"). It was said that the gangsters were
holding clubs/knives on the right hand, and New Party flag on the left
hand. If you believe this story, then I believe Santa Claus exists.
: 2 Few days before the murder, two persons called an All-People cab by
: phone and asked him to take them to a suburban area near Taipei. It
: was in the midnight. They asked the cab to stop underneath a bridge
: where no people around. They got off the cab and shot the tires and
: the doors of the cab with pistol. Then they told the cab driver that
: they are New-Party's followers and they want to teach All-People a
: lesson.
I've read similar report on local newspaper, but again, it was totally a
different story from what Dr. Yeh told us. First, the driver doesn't
belong to ALL-People Taxis Association. Second, those two persons got off
and asked if the driver belonged to All-People. He said no then they shot.
All information I gathered didn't mention the New Party at all.
: 3 The ALL-People Taxis Club has been aware that they are now, not only an
I don't know if this is the correct name for the "Club". I would recommend
"association" instead of "club".
: object for the media and the police to pick on, but also the target for
: the New Party's followers to attack. For their safety they decided to
: remove all the signs and symbols of "All-People" from their cabs.
Do you know how many Taipei citizens refuse to take the All-People cabs
for their own safety? Almost every person driving in Taiwan understands
that if you have an accident with a cab (especially a radio taxi), you
go into BIG TROUBLE!!!!!
: 4 I agree with Prof. Chen Shih-Mong, the deputy mayor of Taipei, that
: the murder is a political issue. It is due to "hate" arisen
: intentionally by New Party during the election.
I couldn't agree with him. I believe All taxi drivers have the rights to
survive, to express their opinions, and to ask for what they deserve to
have. However, it was the wrong means which the All-People drivers chose
to express their standpoints. Blurring the truth and finding excuses
(just like what Dr. Yeh did) for their behaviors would only deeped the
hatred between groups and, do no good to themselves.
Chih-Hung Feng (AKA Cardinal)
chf...@iiidns.iii.org.tw
H.H. Chou
writes:
We really should thank Mr. Yang and his coworkers draging us out of
the hopeless holiday atmosphere with their
*fine-eyewitness-reports*.
You should call him Mr. Iunn instead. He prefers people to call him
that way.
hh
Tom Li
I think Mitch Yang should provide the SOLID evidence for his accusation on
the linkage between New Party (NP) and bambo gang. NP denied they have
anything to do with bambo gang.
Now this is what I see the difference between NP and DPP/TIers how they
handle violent incidents.
When this parking incident occurred, NP issued an official statement to
denounce the violence caused by valet parking personnels and All-People
cab drivers and asked to bring the murder suspects to justice.
During the election, in Taipei, a passenger told the taxi driver that
he will not vote for DPP and was dragged out of the cab and beaten up
near to death by this taxi driver. DPP candidate for Taipei mayor,
Chen Shiu-Ben commented on this violent incident by saying he thinks
this passenger was probably drunk and fell to ground and hurt himself.
What a contrast!!!
On March 14, 1993, the first NP gathering at Kao-shiung Senior High School
DPP/TIers went into the high school and beated up those attendence. After
the incident, the head of Kao-shiung branch of TI organization said they
will do it again if NP dares to come back to Kao-shiung.
Sure they did again. On September 25, 1994, NP went to Kao-shiung for
"defending ROC" rally. Several hundreds of DPP/TIers led by Kao-shiung
DPP candidates went in to look for trouble and clashed with NP supporters
and the police. After the incident, NP candidate for Kao-shiung mayor,
Tang Ah-Gung, refused to protest at the eighth anniverivery of DPP in
Kao-shiung held on September 28, 1994, instead, he sent the flowers to
congratulate the DPP rally. See the difference between NP candidates and
DPP candidates.
We all know the DPP rallies often ended with the street violence, gasoline
bombs, iron bars, car burning... But several of NP rallies were peacefully,
NP supporters showed their gratitude to the police who maintained the rally
order and stopped shouting the slogan when they passed by the Chen Shiu-Ben
campaign headquarter to avoid the confrontation. In the end of NP rally,
they even cleaned up the garbage. See the difference between NP supporters
and DPP supporters in terms of the quality.
Of course, NP is no perfect either. NP needs to make effort to attract more
BSRs to get rid of the image of "WSR party" (in fact, there are NP supporters
from BSRs, well-known singer, Lou Da-You is one of them) and tone down the
wild LDH-bashing and "educate" people like Chu Kao-Jeng .... But unlike
DPP/TIers, NP does not have the record of discriminating people from different
groups. Unlike DPP and KMT, NP has not involved any major corruption and
remains the cleanest political party up to date.
Thats' what I see the difference between NP and DPP/TIers.
Tom
H.H. Chou
(Guanghua Gao) writes:
Thanks for sharing the Taiwan democracy situation with us. KMT is
playing money plus mafia politics, DDP is playing mob politics and
NT is playing gangster politics. These are the allegation by two of
the three parties against the othe one. Here is the Taiwan
experiences LDH so proude of. Want to sell it to the world?
Guanghua Gao
Oh, well, at least we can freely tell you the stories without worrying
being captured overnight, this is something people from the other side
of the strait cannot hope to do. Those who did tell you the story of
the biggest party in the other side of the strait had either been
caputured for "anti-revolution" crime or simply just disappeared, who
knows where are they now?
So that's the democracy situation in Taiwan. Not perfect, but better
than none. Don't overlook it.
hh
KEVI...@delphi.com
Quoting li from a message in soc.culture.taiwan
> According to Taiwan's newspapers, Chou Shaw-Kong's brother is Chou
>Shaw-Hwa. Chou Shaw-Kong denied his brother is the owner of Champagne
>Hall night club. And this club was burned to ground by ALL-People taxi
>drivers during the riot.
Whey other accused you are a liar, I had some reservation.
However, after making statement like the Champagne Hall night club
was BURN TO THE GROUND, you showed yourself as the true liar.
The truth is, "Champagne Hall" is still standing in a cornor somewhere
in Taipei.
You are a true worthless liar.
With people like you and Chu supporting the NP, NP is really hopelessly
untrustworthy.
-Fish
Rainbow V 1.09 for Delphi - Test Drive
Carl Kao
: You should call him Mr. Iunn instead. He prefers people to call him
: that way.
Happy but not jubilant yet. Call him Iunn San Lah.
Iunn San, Iunn San, SaiYoNaLa...
: hh
Tom Li
In article <3eg9dc$e...@news1.delphi.com>, KEVI...@delphi.com writes...
Gosh, Fish, did you read Taiwan's newspaper or not? Did you see the photo
showed on Taiwan's newspaper that the rioters set fire on Campagne Hall night
club and burned the night club ITSELF to the ground of course not the building
of the Presidental (Tung-I) Hotel. And this arson costs the owner of the
night club NT$8 millions and has to close down for good.
Frankly, I dont really care if you or others call me anything as long as
I can provide the source of information. Your name-calling only shows
you are nervous about the truth.
And time to read not just shout, sir.
Tom
Tom Li
Joanna Chien claimed he saw the incident from THE VERY BEGINNING to the end
with reporters and photographers from TNT. How could it possibly Joanna Chien
and TNT's reporters and photographers were at the scene when the argument
started? Unless it is not the incident but a plot. In other words,
Joanna Chien and TNT's reporters and photographers went to the scene with
this All-people taxi driver who had argument with valet parking personnel
at the night club??? How strange.
Joanna Chien also claimed TNT is "one of the most unbiased underground
Taiwanese ratio and TV station". Then let me tell you how violent TNT
station is:
On August 1st, 1994, a host at TNT station for 8pm - 9pm talk show, invited
a guy, Mr. Tsai to comment on 801 incident. Mr. Tsai said the police is
responsible for their misconduct. Then he said that he has called Interior
Ministry that if they dont compensate the damage of 30s' taxis, he will
organize a defense team and train all taxi drivers how to make bombs to
bomb the government and kill the government officials.
Due to this program, the TNT station was closed down by the police yesterday.
The court has a copy of this talk show and soon will press the charge against
Mr. Tsai for promoting the terror.
Tom
T.H.L.
>Gosh, Fish, did you read Taiwan's newspaper or not? Did you see the photo
>showed on Taiwan's newspaper that the rioters set fire on Campagne Hall night
>club and burned the night club ITSELF to the ground of course not the building
>of the Presidental (Tung-I) Hotel. And this arson costs the owner of the
>night club NT$8 millions and has to close down for good.
Well, well, well, Tom Li is defending for Bamboo gansters!
What's next? defending for CCP?
Yeah, according to Tom Li's simplified statement, murder is OK, as
long as, no photos are shown on the newspaper that Tom read.
How poor logic Tom has!
What a weak argument from Tom.
Please be more specific!
You earned the name "Tom Liar" for good reasons.
>Frankly, I dont really care if you or others call me anything as long as
>I can provide the source of information. Your name-calling only shows
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Excuse us, what source of information did you provide?
Mind naming some for us, what pages?
Solid evidence, please.
Happy Chinese pig year!
T.H.L.
Tom Li
In article <3eepn5$e...@pollux.usc.edu>, mcy...@pollux.usc.edu (Bien-Chao Iunn) writes...
Chao Shao-Kong said that his brother is NOT the owner of this underground
dance club. I doubt Chao Shao-Kong dared to lie because it's very easy to
find out. Think about it.
Also think about how you have "believed" Joanna Chien's posting. Chien
claimed he witnessed the incident from THE VERY BEGINNING to the end.
How could it possibly for him and TNT's reporters and camera crews to be
at the scene when argument started at 2am??? Unless it's not an incident
but a plot. Is it a plot by your favor people, Mitch??? [remember I just
ask not accuse, Ok. So dont accuse me.]
Tom
Yu Chang
>In article <3ehnf4$p...@hsc.usc.edu>, th...@hsc.usc.edu (T.H.L.) writes:
>|> In article <3egc6j$5...@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> l...@nyoss1.enet.dec.com (Tom Li) writes:
>|>
>|> >Gosh, Fish, did you read Taiwan's newspaper or not? Did you see the photo
>|> >showed on Taiwan's newspaper that the rioters set fire on Campagne Hall night
>|> >club and burned the night club ITSELF to the ground of course not the building
>|> >of the Presidental (Tung-I) Hotel. And this arson costs the owner of the
>|> >night club NT$8 millions and has to close down for good.
>|>
>|> Well, well, well, Tom Li is defending for Bamboo gansters!
>|> What's next? defending for CCP?
>|> Yeah, according to Tom Li's simplified statement, murder is OK, as
>|> long as, no photos are shown on the newspaper that Tom read.
>|>
>|> How poor logic Tom has!
>|> What a weak argument from Tom.
>|> Please be more specific!
>
>again. I'll bet that if you are not Thomas L. himself then you must be his
>identical twin.
>
>Yu, Thomas! Long time no see; happy new year.
Karl,
I must protest profusely that you associated my name with Thomas.
I am sure you meant Yo or You, not Yu.
I had nothing to do the the post you refered to and did not
contribute to the *fine* logic lessons from Thomas L.
yu
>
>--
>Karl Tsai
Danny Chi
One netter sent me an e-mail asking me to report what I saw on the evening
of the 12/21 incident.
Well, I was not as lucky as Joanna Chien who had TNT (quote: "most unbiased
underground Taiwanese radio and TV station") reporters and cameramen
accompany her to arrive at the scene of the riot close enough to record all
these live conversations.
That evening, I was on my way back to the hotel I stayed (one block from the
Tong-ee Hotel). Suddenly, the street was jammed with cars. Listening to the
radio, the driver told me that a nearby street was blocked by some All-People
taxi drivers.
Then the driver somehow managed to get us out of the traffic and drove me
to the hotel. Certainly, I had a late dinner that evening.
Later, I tried to get closer to the Tong-ee Hotel but was blocked by the
crowd surrounding it. I saw some commotion going on but was not close
enough to tell what was really happening.
Compared with Chien's first-hand report, my story was quite boring!
-- Danny Chi
By the way, I was greatly amused by reading Chien's eye-witness report!
Here is one such example: Chien told us she was right there when the very
first brawl started 3am in the morning (Let's believe it.).
She then reported:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
One of the valet clerk ran out with 5 or 6 others right away and said,
"WE ARE THE BAMBOO GANG, WE BELONGED TO NEW PARTY, YOU ALL CITIZEN TAXI
ASSOCIATION DESERVED TO DIE."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, now, read the above quote again in great anger, then you may agree
with me that, this piece certainly serves as a good example of Taiwan's
modern "Templet Opera". (Chiang Ching's yang4 ban3 shih4.)
Johnny Chien-Min Yu
Article: 566 of alt.human-brain
Path: news-4.nss.udel.edu!udel!news.sprintlink.net!pipex!uunet!newstf01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: nsac...@aol.com (NSACORAF)
Newsgroups: alt.human-brain
Subject: Re: freedom and liberty
Date: 31 Dec 1994 22:14:46 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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Sender: ro...@newsbf02.news.aol.com
Message-ID: <3e56n6$7...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
References: <3dv5c7$b...@brahms.udel.edu>
Reply-To: nsac...@aol.com (NSACORAF)
>The discussion of mind machine that can read and possibly control your
>thoughts, I have found very interesting from both sides of the question. A
>few nights ago, the announcer of the Discovery Channel program "2,000",
>stated briefly that it had been reported that a low level magnetic wave
>machine was used in insane asylums to quiet unruly or disturb patients
>without the use of drugs. I throw this in the "stew of this discussion"
>for whatever it is worth.
Dear Nick,
Did you watch this news yourself ? or Is it mentioned by someone
who you knew.
If this news you watched yourself, I don't think you would wait a few days
then posted it. That's why I keep quite a few days and wait for the
further informations which I asked you in last mail.
If you watched this news yourself and make sure the events of report are
all true. Then the machine mentioned on Discover channel could be the
same one which I talked about the "Thoughts Detecting Machine.
This machine should be made by same principle with the "Thoughts
Detecting Machine", or even both machine are almost same but use in
different way.
On the other hand, if you didn't watch this news but heard from
someone else. I hope you can double check to avoid the mistake which
might set us up from the patent's owner in order to accuse everything
which I said is same fake as the mistake.
Because this secret is currently top secret of the operators & inventors of
the "Thoughts Detecting Machine, they won't so easily let the secret leak.
Some time, they even try to get rid of people to stop secret leak.
Finally, if you already make sure the event of report are all true, then
thanks god! you really caught their miss. The patent of both
machine should belong to the same inventors. You can follow the
informations which the "cable channel discover "got from, to find the
inventors and opertors of the machine.
There is the explanation how the machine works in this situation.
The way is that the operators use a little higher frequency magnetic
waves to tap (stimulate) the neural system (the part control sleep) of the
patients brain to make them quiet.
>Any comments or knowledge about and where mind machines were used to
>improve memory would be greatly appreciated, especially if they were used
>on traumatic brain injured individuals successfully.
>Sincerely,
>Nick
>"Obstacles are things a person sees when he takes his eyes off his goal."
>
--- E.Joseph Cossman (whoever he is)
As I know the "Thoughts Detecting Machine" can increase activities of
any area of memory of human brain. According this function, the operators
can easily find the latest or historical information of subjects from reading
their thoughts.
This machine can use low level magnetic waves to interact with brain waves
or communicate with human brain, or even use a litter high frequence to tap
(for stimulating) the neural system of human brain in order to influence
the action of a subject, such as to falling sleep or taking a nap.
( Suddenly falling to sleep is a way to get rid of a subject. If this
situation happened in the car, when someone was driving on high way.)
Then, of course the operators can use the higher frequency
electro-magnetic waves as a weapon to hurt the neural system of human
brain.
Sincerely
Alan
Bien-Chao Iunn
writes:
>According to Taiwan's newspapers, Chou Shaw-Kong's brother is Chou Shaw-Hwa.
>Chou Shaw-Kong denied his brother is the owner of Champagne Hall night club.
>And this club was burned to ground by ALL-People taxi drivers during the riot.
So far, all I have done is posting other people's report and comments
about the incident. I haven't said a word about it. However, this
is simply too much. "Burned to the ground" ? Any one in Taipei can
tell you that this is NOT true. No wonder some one call you Tom Lie.
T.H.L.
evidence from others.
Enjoy!
T.H.L.
In article <3eekg7$s...@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> l...@nyoss1.enet.dec.com (Tom Li) writes:
>I think Mitch Yang should provide the SOLID evidence for his accusation on
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>the linkage between New Party (NP) and bambo gang. NP denied they have
>anything to do with bambo gang.
What is Tom's attention here?
Defending the truth, defending gangsters, defending NPers, or
again, ugilfying TIers. Let's see!
>Now this is what I see the difference between NP and DPP/TIers how they
>handle violent incidents.
>
>When this parking incident occurred, NP issued an official statement to
>denounce the violence caused by valet parking personnels and All-People
>cab drivers and asked to bring the murder suspects to justice.
>
>During the election, in Taipei, a passenger told the taxi driver that
>he will not vote for DPP and was dragged out of the cab and beaten up
>near to death by this taxi driver.
Where is Tom liar's SOLID EVIDENCE?
It seems like Tom can say/lie whatever he wants while he has double
standards toward other's statements.
>DPP candidate for Taipei mayor,
>Chen Shiu-Ben commented on this violent incident by saying he thinks
>this passenger was probably drunk and fell to ground and hurt himself.
Tom Liar is willing to take NPer's word as evidence while he
has a mindset that Chen's word is not true.
This kind of bias.
This kind of dirty trick.
This kind of low.
Now, he asked for SOLiD EVIDENCE!
Now, he asked for Solid evidence!
>What a contrast!!!
>
>On March 14, 1993, the first NP gathering at Kao-shiung Senior High School
>DPP/TIers went into the high school and beated up those attendence. After
>the incident, the head of Kao-shiung branch of TI organization said they
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>will do it again if NP dares to come back to Kao-shiung.
Again, where is Tom Liar's SOLID EVIDENCE?
What Kau-shiung branch of TI organization?
Evidence?
>Sure they did again. On September 25, 1994, NP went to Kao-shiung for
>"defending ROC" rally. Several hundreds of DPP/TIers led by Kao-shiung
>DPP candidates went in to look for trouble and clashed with NP supporters
>and the police. After the incident, NP candidate for Kao-shiung mayor,
>Tang Ah-Gung, refused to protest at the eighth anniverivery of DPP in
>Kao-shiung held on September 28, 1994, instead, he sent the flowers to
>congratulate the DPP rally. See the difference between NP candidates and
>DPP candidates.
Once Tom used DPP/TI together, then Tom used DPP alone.
Mind clarifying the relationships between this two, before you accuse?
Otherwise, use the word more precisely and carefully?
>We all know the DPP rallies often ended with the street violence, gasoline
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Sorry, you made a mistake again,
A lot of people don't think that way, that's way tens of
thousands people join DPP's rallies.
Again, where is your evidence?
>bombs, iron bars, car burning... But several of NP rallies were peacefully,
^^^^^^^
Very weak argument. Often vs. several. :-( :-( :-((((((
"Please try harder!"
>NP supporters showed their gratitude to the police who maintained the rally
>order and stopped shouting the slogan when they passed by the Chen Shiu-Ben
>campaign headquarter to avoid the confrontation. In the end of NP rally,
>they even cleaned up the garbage. See the difference between NP supporters
>and DPP supporters in terms of the quality.
See, how HARD Tom Lie tried to uglify DPPers!
>Of course, NP is no perfect either. NP needs to make effort to attract more
>BSRs to get rid of the image of "WSR party" (in fact, there are NP supporters
>from BSRs, well-known singer, Lou Da-You is one of them) and tone down the
>wild LDH-bashing and "educate" people like Chu Kao-Jeng .... But unlike
>DPP/TIers, NP does not have the record of discriminating people from different
>groups. Unlike DPP and KMT, NP has not involved any major corruption and
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Again, where is Tom's SOLID EVIDENCE?
>remains the cleanest political party up to date.
>Thats' what I see the difference between NP and DPP/TIers.
Seems like Tom Li is changing his political position from Taiwanese
KMT to Chinese KMT. What is next? CCP?
Mmmmmmmmmmmm..........Interesting.
Y.H.L.
>Tom
T.H.L.
Unfortunately, Tom Liar don't read Taiwanese magazines.
He only reads Chinese world J.
Yu Chang
Bien-Chao Iunn <mcy...@pollux.usc.edu> wrote:
>
>4 I agree with Prof. Chen Shih-Mong, the deputy mayor of Taipei, that
> the murder is a political issue. It is due to "hate" arisen
> intentionally by New Party during the election.
>
Chen SM denied he said that it is a "political" incident in front of
the Taipei legislatives when the logislatives demand an explanation.
He probably said but had to change it under A Bian's pressure.
If he did, he would be the one stirring up hatred.
Foutunately, A Bian is a lot more smarter than a lot of other people
we know.
We should have confidence in the new Tapei major. I think he will
find the justice.
Tom Li
Chih-Hung Feng, living in Taiwan, offered us another version of the parking
incident. I made some comments on it. I think anyone interested in this
incident may want to read his posting too.
Tom
In article <3efs92$9...@aladdin.iii.org.tw>, chf...@iiidns.iii.org.tw (Technology Research Division) writes...
>Bien-Chao Iunn (mcy...@pollux.usc.edu) wrote:
> Hi! I live in Taiwan, and I would like to say that what Dr. Yeh said
> was NOT truth.
>
>: -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>: From: "Dr. Chih-Ping Yeh" <y...@hub.eng.wayne.edu>
>: I just came back from Taiwan. I have visited several ratio stations and
>: talked with several All-People taxi drivers. The followings are my
>: understanding about the situation.
>: 1. Mr. Wu, an All-People taxi driver, parked his cab in front of
>: Champagne Hall, owned by Chou, Shaw-Kong's brother. The Bamboo
>
> This was not true. Mr. Chao Shaw-Kong denied his brother's involvement
> with the Champagne Hall. His brother, Mr. Chao Shaw-Hua, was not in
> Taiwan when the incident happened, so he couldn't make the statement
> himself. However, the owner of the Champagne Hall (I couldn't remember
> his name) made the clarification 2 or 3 days after the incident. He
> (the owner) said he has nothing to do with the New Party. On the contrary,
> he has close relations with a DPP legislator, Mr. Chou Bao-Lun. So far,
> Mr. Chou hasn't denied this relationship.
After all, not Chao Shaw-Kong but DPP legislator, Mr. Chou Bao-Lun, a
well-known TIer, has close relation with Champagne Hall night club.
Interesting. Hmmm... the rioters should not have burned down this
night club. ;) I wonder how Mitch Yang, Tim Chuang, Dr. Chih-Ping Yeh,
Joanna Chien ... are going to say about this.
It's no secret some DPP/TIers have close relation with Taiwan's wealthy
family, e.g., Ong Da-Ming in recent Hong-Fu scandal.
>: gangsters, who operated the valet parking for the hotel, noticed the
>: sign of "All-People" on top of the cab, they immediately parked two
>: cars on both sides of cab. They on purposely parked these two cars so
>: closely to the cab that Mr. Wu could not even reach the door. He
>
> The statements above was not correct. Mr. Wu parked his car and went
> drinking with friends. When he returned he found his car blocked, then
> the fight bigan.
>
>: went arguing with them. The gangsters told him that "We are the ones
>: to enforce THE LAW OF NEW-PARTY". They beat him up badly. He
>: returned with his friends, including Mr. Dai, for revenge. The
>: fight began and Mr. Dai was stabbed to death.
>
> Incorrect. Mr. Dai was killed in the THIRD fight. At first Mr. Wu was
> beat up in the FIRST fight, then he called his friends for a SECOND fight.
> Still lost. Then he summoned other taxi drivers for another fight,
> through the radio system in the car. If he won one of the first two fights,
> Mr. Dai would not have been killed. Personally, I feel Mr. Wu should
> share some responsibility for Mr. Dai's death.
>
> There was more marvelous part of the story curculated from TNT (a "MOST
> UNBIASED UNDERGROUND RADIOSTATION"). It was said that the gangsters were
> holding clubs/knives on the right hand, and New Party flag on the left
> hand. If you believe this story, then I believe Santa Claus exists.
Holding knives on one hand and waving the NP flag on other hand??? Reports
from TNT station??? Sure. ;)
Anyway, according to newspaper, TNT was closed down by the police two days
ago. The reason is because
On August 1st, 1994, a host for 8-9pm talk show at TNT invited a guest,
Mr. Tsai to comment on 801 incident. Mr. Tsai said he has asked the
Interior Ministry to compensate the damage of 30s taxis or he will organize
a self-defense team and train all taxi drivers how to make bombs to bomb
the government.
The court now holds the copy of this talk show and soon will press charge
against Mr. Tsai for promoting the terror.
And Joanna Chien called TNT, "one of the most unbiased underground Taiwanese
radio and TV station" and he thanks to the reporters and photographers from
TNT took him to see the whole incident. Interesting!!!
>: 2 Few days before the murder, two persons called an All-People cab by
>: phone and asked him to take them to a suburban area near Taipei. It
>: was in the midnight. They asked the cab to stop underneath a bridge
>: where no people around. They got off the cab and shot the tires and
>: the doors of the cab with pistol. Then they told the cab driver that
>: they are New-Party's followers and they want to teach All-People a
>: lesson.
>
> I've read similar report on local newspaper, but again, it was totally a
> different story from what Dr. Yeh told us. First, the driver doesn't
> belong to ALL-People Taxis Association. Second, those two persons got off
> and asked if the driver belonged to All-People. He said no then they shot.
> All information I gathered didn't mention the New Party at all.
Hmmm... I hope Dr. Yeh can clarify this to us.
>: 3 The ALL-People Taxis Club has been aware that they are now, not only an
>
> I don't know if this is the correct name for the "Club". I would recommend
> "association" instead of "club".
>
>: object for the media and the police to pick on, but also the target for
>: the New Party's followers to attack. For their safety they decided to
>: remove all the signs and symbols of "All-People" from their cabs.
>
> Do you know how many Taipei citizens refuse to take the All-People cabs
> for their own safety? Almost every person driving in Taiwan understands
> that if you have an accident with a cab (especially a radio taxi), you
> go into BIG TROUBLE!!!!!
Yes, I heard this. A friend of mine told me that when take the taxi in
Taipei, be sure to watch out the sign of "All-People" before jump in.
He said some passengers complained the radio too loud and often yelled
back by the "All-People" cab drivers.
Tom Li
In article <3ehnf4$p...@hsc.usc.edu>, th...@hsc.usc.edu (T.H.L.) writes...
>In article <3egc6j$5...@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> l...@nyoss1.enet.dec.com (Tom Li) writes:
>
>>Gosh, Fish, did you read Taiwan's newspaper or not? Did you see the photo
>>showed on Taiwan's newspaper that the rioters set fire on Campagne Hall night
>>club and burned the night club ITSELF to the ground of course not the building
>>of the Presidental (Tung-I) Hotel. And this arson costs the owner of the
>>night club NT$8 millions and has to close down for good.
>
>Well, well, well, Tom Li is defending for Bamboo gansters!
>What's next? defending for CCP?
>Yeah, according to Tom Li's simplified statement, murder is OK, as
>long as, no photos are shown on the newspaper that Tom read.
I defended nobody. The owner of the night club has close relation with
DPP legislator, Chou Bun-Lun, a well-known TIer. Hmmm... If this owner
is a bamboo gang then the linkage between bamboo gangs and DPP/TIers is
certianly interesting!!!
>How poor logic Tom has!
>What a weak argument from Tom.
>Please be more specific!
>You earned the name "Tom Liar" for good reasons.
>
>>Frankly, I dont really care if you or others call me anything as long as
>>I can provide the source of information. Your name-calling only shows
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Excuse us, what source of information did you provide?
>Mind naming some for us, what pages?
>
>Solid evidence, please.
>
>Happy Chinese pig year!
>
>T.H.L.
Hmmm... Didnt I provide the evidence to prove pro-Japan TI veteran,
Wang Yu-Der DID call Japan as his "motherland" on his book
"Taiwan - Agony of The History".
Hmmm... Didnt I also mention that you Thomas L proposed to sell Kinmen and
Matzu to the Japanese that upset our TI lady, Ruth and she called you
"The Prick". ;)
Oh, I always want to ask you how much Japanese Yen you are asking for Kinmen
and Matzu??? Find a buyer yet???
Yes, Happy Chinese pig year! Lets remember Thomas L.'s Chinese ancesters,
of course, including Thomas L.'s Chinese father. ;)
Tom
Guanghua Gao
|> Bing from Taiwan provided us more information about the incident.
|>
|> Bien-Chao Iunn
|> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
|> From: PC_user <bi...@tpts1.seed.net.tw>
|> Subject: more about the Hotel"President Hotel" -where the killing happened
|> Date: Thu, 5 Jan 1995 12:19:31 +0800 (CST)
|>
|> The Champagne club(a part of President Hotel) uses Bamboo gang members
|> to do valet parking. When Mr. Lai, a member of "All-citizen" Cab Driver
|> Association took a parking space of "Bamboo gang" territories, he was
|> mobbed by gang members yelling "We are the CNP law enforcers ","You
|> All-Citizen" drivers are mobsters" ... Mr. Lai was forced to radio for help.
|> This case can be discribed as an act of "counter attact" for defeat of
|> CNP in last mayoral election.
|>
|> 1. Chao Shao-Kon's brother is one of the owners of the club.
|>
|> 2.This "President Hotel" its owner has strong relationship with CKS family
|> .During 1960's once CKS's grand-son Chiang,Siaog-Wen ,was totally drunk
|> and he started to smash everything in the Hotel club .This incident caused
|> his father to appologize to the owner and CKS had to pay for the damages.
I see. In Taiwan, only somebody with a strong relations with a nightclub can
drink there.
|> 3.The Garrison people now work for intellengent agency who are pro-CNP
|> is behind the "gasolin bomb" and 50 gallon gas tank scene shown on TV.
|> "All-citizen" member found the gas appeared to be "red colored"-belong to
|> Miltiary use only or for police only, besides those people who threw
|> "gasoline bomb" are not members of "All-citizen" .The liquid gas tank
|> which burned the front door was from the Hotel itself .
|>
Andy Tai
>I got another message from Joanna Chien about New Party's involvement
>in the murder of the All-Citizen Cab driver.
>
>Mitch Yang(or Bien-Chao Iunn)
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
......
Mitch Yang wins the award of the equivalent of the National Inquiror
(a magazine in the U. S.) in soc.culture.taiwan. Trust his word like trusting
someone saying the earth is flat.
Shiwen Huang
to cease taxi drivers' anger and make them mentally happy???????
Tom Li
In article <3ehpn8$n...@info-server.bbn.com>, kt...@bbn.com (Karl Tsai) writes...
>In article <3ehnf4$p...@hsc.usc.edu>, th...@hsc.usc.edu (T.H.L.) writes:
>|> In article <3egc6j$5...@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> l...@nyoss1.enet.dec.com (Tom Li) writes:
>|>
>|> >Gosh, Fish, did you read Taiwan's newspaper or not? Did you see the photo
>|> >showed on Taiwan's newspaper that the rioters set fire on Campagne Hall night
>|> >club and burned the night club ITSELF to the ground of course not the building
>|> >of the Presidental (Tung-I) Hotel. And this arson costs the owner of the
>|> >night club NT$8 millions and has to close down for good.
>|>
>|> Well, well, well, Tom Li is defending for Bamboo gansters!
>|> What's next? defending for CCP?
>|> Yeah, according to Tom Li's simplified statement, murder is OK, as
>|> long as, no photos are shown on the newspaper that Tom read.
>|>
>|> How poor logic Tom has!
>|> What a weak argument from Tom.
>|> Please be more specific!
>
>again. I'll bet that if you are not Thomas L. himself then you must be his
>identical twin.
>
>Yu, Thomas! Long time no see; happy new year.
>
>Karl Tsai
Anyone knows how many "identical" twins Thomas L has? I think it's 4.
Two Americans - Julian Williams, Barton Ward
One Jewish - Koch
One Chinese, no, I mean one TI twin - T.H.L.
What a happy family!!!
Tom
H.H. Chou
Joke of the Chinese Pig Year when the big liar Tom Li asked solid
evidence from others.
Enjoy!
T.H.L.
Why can't even liar ask for solid evidence? By the way, if he is
asking for solid evidence but you are denying even the necessity to
check the evidence, I tend to think he is not a liar but you are. Only
true liars are afraid people to check the evidence.
Think about it.
hh
KEVI...@delphi.com
Quoting jackc from a message in alt.taiwan.republic
> I don't know how true it is, but last month's Mei-Hwa Reports had quite
> lot articles about KMT and DPP's links to rascals and gangsters. There
> wasn't any article listing NP's involvelment with rascals though.
> Actually in the Taiwan Weekly (12/31/94), there is a reader's article
>complaining about DPP is turning into KMT-like such as using money and
>rascals.
Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! You read Mei-Hua Reports? Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha!
I can't stop laughing. Worst yet, you think a trash magazine
like the Mei-Hua is a good information source?
Do you also read the "National Inquire" for US and National news?
I really over-estimated some of you guys. Ha! Ha! Ha!
Karl Tsai
>
> One netter sent me an e-mail asking me to report what I saw on the evening
> of the 12/21 incident.
>
> Well, I was not as lucky as Joanna Chien who had TNT (quote: "most unbiased
> underground Taiwanese radio and TV station") reporters and cameramen
[deleted]
Good for you Danny! My source told me during the blockade 3 passes-by
were beat up by those all-people's cabbies: 2 of them were taxi
drivers bearing NP and ROC flags respectively and the 3rd was a high
school student who suffered severe eye injuries and was in the danger
of being blind permanently at the time I heard it.
It is really funny to see these *eye-witness-news-reports* and other
related postings from our DPP inclined friends here since back in
Taiwan's BBS, DPP supporters actually dodge the discussion of this
incidence like hell. :)
---
Karl Tsai
Karl Tsai
Path: info-server.bbn.com!news2.near.net!das-news2.harvard.edu!casaba.srv.cs.cmu.edu!nntp.club.cc.cmu.edu!hudson.lm.com!news.pop.psu.edu!news.cac.psu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news.moneng.mei.com!hookup!newshost.marcam.com!news.kei.com!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!spool.mu.edu!olivea!gossip.pyramid.com!sword.eng.pyramid.com!not-for-mail
From: y...@pyramid.com (Yu Chang)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Date: 5 Jan 1995 15:39:37 -0800
Organization: Pyramid Technology Corporation
Lines: 39
References: <3eg9dc$e...@news1.delphi.com> <3egc6j$5...@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> <3ehnf4$p...@hsc.usc.edu> <3ehpn8$n...@info-server.bbn.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: raptor.eng.pyramid.com
Never watched a single episode of "The Simpsons" in your life? :)
Yu dude, light up, I wasn't talking to you. :)
Karl Dude
Steven Leung
> As I know the "Thoughts Detecting Machine" can increase activities of
> any area of memory of human brain. According this function, the operators
> can easily find the latest or historical information of subjects from reading
> their thoughts.
Technology that can detect brain waves does exist today. But it's still
light years away from mapping the raw brain wave patterns into "thoughts"!
Steven
--
"Life is a series of problems. ... Yet it is in this whole process of
meeting and solving problems that life has its meaning."
From "The Road Less Traveled" by M. Scott Peck
Green Ranger
Although we may never know the truth, because everyone is telling the
"truth" from their perspective, we might all agree in principle that all
this was about TURF FIGHT!
Forget about BSR vs. WSR or U vs TI. The riot and the dispute we saw was
pretty local. Drug dealers fight for the street corners to make a deal.
Taxi drivers fight for parking sapce to pick up a customer. TV camera
tends to magnify the event. It's just too bad that we had to draw the two
opposing sides along political and ethnic lines. It's really all about money
and ego.
I think the police has failed us again in terms of responsiveness.
Here in LA, police goes to tactical alert very quickly whenever there is a
large gathering of unruly crowd. And they wont go away until the crowd is
dispersed. It was really a shame to see taxi drivers responded faster than
the authority. Taiwan police should mobilize faster in a moment's notice to
prevent proliferation of future incidents.
Green Ranger (O)
Jin-Kun Lin
jack chao <ja...@chao.ttay.tun.ttt> wrote:
>
>I don't know how true it is, but last month's Mei-Hwa Reports had quite
>lot articles about KMT and DPP's links to rascals and gangsters. There
>wasn't any article listing NP's involvelment with rascals though.
Did you check the background of "Mei-Hwa Reports"? If I tell you
that it is related to Bamboo Gang, would you believe me?
John Pyper
On 4 Jan 1995, Bien-Chao Iunn wrote:
[EDIT]
He hires Bamboo Gangs to
> guard that place and provide valet parking. These gansters
> claimed that they are NPers while attacking and eventually
> killing the All-People taxi driver.
Just a question: Does the Bamboo Gang actually support the NP or were
they using the NP as a sheild/red-herring to divert attention????
==============================================================================
J. Bruce Pyper jbp...@u.washington.edu
Graduate Student, China Studies
Jackson School, Univ. of Washington
Seattle, Wash. U.S.A.
==============================================================================
Bien-Chao Iunn
Bien-Chao Iunn
------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: PC_user <bi...@tpts1.seed.net.tw>
Subject: more about the Hotel"President Hotel" -where the killing happened
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 1995 12:19:31 +0800 (CST)
The Champagne club(a part of President Hotel) uses Bamboo gang members
to do valet parking. When Mr. Lai, a member of "All-citizen" Cab Driver
Association took a parking space of "Bamboo gang" territories, he was
mobbed by gang members yelling "We are the CNP law enforcers ","You
All-Citizen" drivers are mobsters" ... Mr. Lai was forced to radio for help.
This case can be discribed as an act of "counter attact" for defeat of
CNP in last mayoral election.
1. Chao Shao-Kon's brother is one of the owners of the club.
2.This "President Hotel" its owner has strong relationship with CKS family
.During 1960's once CKS's grand-son Chiang,Siaog-Wen ,was totally drunk
and he started to smash everything in the Hotel club .This incident caused
his father to appologize to the owner and CKS had to pay for the damages.
3.The Garrison people now work for intellengent agency who are pro-CNP
Karl Tsai
|>
|> >Gosh, Fish, did you read Taiwan's newspaper or not? Did you see the photo
|> >showed on Taiwan's newspaper that the rioters set fire on Campagne Hall night
|> >club and burned the night club ITSELF to the ground of course not the building
|> >of the Presidental (Tung-I) Hotel. And this arson costs the owner of the
|> >night club NT$8 millions and has to close down for good.
|>
|> Well, well, well, Tom Li is defending for Bamboo gansters!
|> What's next? defending for CCP?
|> Yeah, according to Tom Li's simplified statement, murder is OK, as
|> long as, no photos are shown on the newspaper that Tom read.
|>
|> How poor logic Tom has!
|> What a weak argument from Tom.
|> Please be more specific!
Well, well, well! Yet another guy giving away *fine* logic lessens from USC
again. I'll bet that if you are not Thomas L. himself then you must be his
identical twin.
Yu, Thomas! Long time no see; happy new year.
--
Karl Tsai
Yu Chang
> Joke of the Chinese Pig Year when the big liar Tom Li asked solid
> evidence from others.
> Enjoy!
>
> T.H.L.
Thomas L is Thomas L.
Could never stop personal attack no matter what name he uses.
>>DPP candidate for Taipei mayor,
>>Chen Shiu-Ben commented on this violent incident by saying he thinks
>>this passenger was probably drunk and fell to ground and hurt himself.
>
> Tom Liar is willing to take NPer's word as evidence while he
> has a mindset that Chen's word is not true.
I think the word from the passenger is more credible.
Chen was not there, and he said he "thinks" not he "knows for sure".
>
>> But several of NP rallies were peacefully,
> ^^^^^^^
> Very weak argument. Often vs. several. :-( :-( :-((((((
> "Please try harder!"
But there were only several NP rallies so far.
The only NP rallies and assemblies with violence were those when DPPer
burning their cars, throwing chairs and bricks at them, pull out NPer
(like prof Yau Li Ming) from the car and beat them. Remember 925.
>
>>NP supporters showed their gratitude to the police who maintained the rally
>>order and stopped shouting the slogan when they passed by the Chen Shiu-Ben
>>campaign headquarter to avoid the confrontation. In the end of NP rally,
>>they even cleaned up the garbage. See the difference between NP supporters
>>and DPP supporters in terms of the quality.
>
> See, how HARD Tom Lie tried to uglify DPPers!
But it is true.
This is actually what happened in NP rallies.
>
>
>>Of course, NP is no perfect either. NP needs to make effort to attract more
>>BSRs to get rid of the image of "WSR party" (in fact, there are NP supporters
>>from BSRs, well-known singer, Lou Da-You is one of them) and tone down the
>>wild LDH-bashing and "educate" people like Chu Kao-Jeng .... But unlike
>>DPP/TIers, NP does not have the record of discriminating people from different
>>groups. Unlike DPP and KMT, NP has not involved any major corruption and
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Again, where is Tom's SOLID EVIDENCE?
There is NO evidence.
That is the evidence of NO corruption.
On the contrary, there is tons of evidence of KMT and DPP corruptions.
>
>>remains the cleanest political party up to date.
>>Thats' what I see the difference between NP and DPP/TIers.
>
> Seems like Tom Li is changing his political position from Taiwanese
> KMT to Chinese KMT. What is next? CCP?
> Mmmmmmmmmmmm..........Interesting.
>
> Y.H.L.
Thomas L is not familiar with his new name and even made a mistake typing it.
Mmmmmmmmmmm..........
Not very intersting, as usual.
>
>>Tom
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Beijing Ge Men-er
>
>Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! You read Mei-Hua Reports? Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha!
>I can't stop laughing. Worst yet, you think a trash magazine
>like the Mei-Hua is a good information source?
>
>Do you also read the "National Inquire" for US and National news?
>
>I really over-estimated some of you guys. Ha! Ha! Ha!
>
>-Fish
Just curious, how come you guys always say such and such can not
read. no offensive, but are there so many junk their?
i can access some taiwan papers, i don't know if i should read
those or not.
--
yuan
Vincent Yang
True or not, who cares!
Do Americans care what or who President Clinton's brother is?
It sounds like the leaders of KMT and DPP finally decide NP is
their common enemy and they joint together to eliminate NP. Taxi
driver issue plus "give up Huang to save Chen" are the prelude of
this Kill-NP campagn.
Vince--
jack chao
>
>Quoting jackc from a message in alt.taiwan.republic
> > I don't know how true it is, but last month's Mei-Hwa Reports had quite
>
>
>I can't stop laughing. Worst yet, you think a trash magazine
>like the Mei-Hua is a good information source?
>
Yes, fish dude, I read all kinds of newspapers and magazines including
most TI magazines and People's Daily. Do you know why ? As long as
there are people believe it and read it, I like to find out how these people
form their opinions. Reading People's Daily and TI magazines for last
15 years make me a firm believer that CCP and radical TIers have no
future at all. Open up your minds and learn other side of stories some
time. It's good for you, fish.
After all, did you ever read Mei-Hua Reports ? At least I find some
photos are pretty good. In the issue I mentioned, I was impressed
about how these mobs wore now.
By the way, it's nice to know that we do entertain each other well, fish.
Jack
Tom Li
In article <3ehaqr$7...@pollux.usc.edu>, mcy...@pollux.usc.edu (Bien-Chao Iunn) writes...
Hmmm... I said the club ITSELF was burned to ground by the rioters. Did
I say the Hotel was burned to ground? The club is part of the Presidental
Hotel which is a concrete building. And the club was set fire by the rioters
that cost the owner of the club $NT 8 millions and has to shut down for good.
Kevin Fish even claimed the club still in the corner somewhere in Taipei.
Is the club in the corner somewhere in Taipei??? The club is located at
the ground floor or basement of the Hotel. He, an American, probably does
even know where the Presidental Hotel is. Then who's a liar? And you
are no better. You removed unfavorable statements on TI movement from an
article in "The Economist" magazine and posted it to make sound like pro-TI.
Later a netter posted the missing portion, finally we know what the article
is really trying to say. How embarrassing!!!
And I asked you the credibility of Joanna Chien's posting and bet you dont
know how to say a word. One netter said DPP legislator, Chou Bun-Lun has
close relation with this night club and bet you dont know how to say a word.
Tom
Tom Li
>about the incident. I haven't said a word about it.
We all know Mitch Yang has been busy as the captain running TI propaganda
machine and he claimed he "hasn't said a word about it". "Has not said a
word about it", Mitch???
Then who is the author of the following posting on the incident. Isnt you,
Mitch?
So here is one for you:
"I, Mitch Yang, lied today, I admit I did say something about the incident.
I am a liar".
Tom
Article: 77857
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From: mcy...@pollux.usc.edu (Bien-Chao Iunn)
Newsgroups: alt.taiwan.republic,soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.hongkong,soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: New Party, Bamboo Gang and Murderers
Date: 4 Jan 1995 10:34:13 -0800
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Bien-Chao Iunn
John Pyper <jbp...@u.washington.edu> writes:
>Just a question: Does the Bamboo Gang actually support the NP or were
>they using the NP as a sheild/red-herring to divert attention????
>==============================================================================
>J. Bruce Pyper jbp...@u.washington.edu
>Graduate Student, China Studies
>Jackson School, Univ. of Washington
>Seattle, Wash. U.S.A.
Bamboo Gang's members are alomst exclusively Wai-Shen-Ren(WSR, or
Out-Of-Province people). They are 1st and 2nd generations of
those Chinese who came to Taiwan with Chiang Kai-Shek. Many of
the gang members are from the military personnel villages which
were isolated from the rest of Taiwanese society.
Bamboo Gang is well-known for its strong position against the Taiwan
Independence movement. They are the most ardent defender of the Republic
of China. A few years ago, in defending the name of Chiang Gin-Kuo, the
son of Chiang Kai-Shek, three members of Bamboo Gang, inclduing one
of their godfathers, Chen Chih-Li(aka Duck), came to the U.S. and
executed a Chinese American, Mr. Henry Liu, in San Francisco. Mr. Liu
just finished a biography about Chiang Gin-Kuo. The book was
conisdered an insult to the Chiang's family.
In terms of ethnic background and national identity, Bamboo gang is
very similar to the Chinese New Party.
yung-kao.hsu
Bien-Chao Iunn <mcy...@pollux.usc.edu> wrote:
>...
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>From: PC_user <bi...@tpts1.seed.net.tw>
>Subject: more about the Hotel"President Hotel" -where the killing happened
>Date: Thu, 5 Jan 1995 12:19:31 +0800 (CST)
>
>The Champagne club(a part of President Hotel) uses Bamboo gang members
>to do valet parking. When Mr. Lai, a member of "All-citizen" Cab Driver
>Association took a parking space of "Bamboo gang" territories, he was
>mobbed by gang members yelling "We are the CNP law enforcers ","You
>All-Citizen" drivers are mobsters" ... Mr. Lai was forced to radio for help.
Any lawyer can easily point out that given the fact that the
there exists hostility between All-citizen cab drivers and
New Party members, gang members yelling "We are the CNP law enforcers"
was simply an act to further humiliate Mr. Lai -- "you just got
beat up by your worse enemy, ha, ha, ha".
Anyway, whoever investigates this incident is going to have a lot of
problems since there is few hard evidences indicating solid motivations
and pasting up exact what happened that night. Unfortunately, the case
will likely come down on the creditabilities of all parties involved.
I would be very concerned about whatever statements my client makes
that turned out to be untrue or grossly exaggerated if I am defending
one of the party. Then, if one is seeking political gain and not
social justice, it would be a different story.
Yung-Kao Hsu
jack chao
In article g...@pollux.usc.edu, mcy...@pollux.usc.edu (Bien-Chao Iunn) writes:
>In article <Pine.A32.3.91c.95010...@homer11.u.washington.edu>
>John Pyper <jbp...@u.washington.edu> writes:
>>Just a question: Does the Bamboo Gang actually support the NP or were
>>they using the NP as a sheild/red-herring to divert attention????
No body knows for sure. Most people in this gang are WSR/Chineses so
they are supposed to support NP. It's like most Taiwanese gangs in
Taiwan are supposed to support DPP except few big ones are bought by
KMT.
>
>Bamboo Gang's members are alomst exclusively Wai-Shen-Ren(WSR, or
>Out-Of-Province people). They are 1st and 2nd generations of
>those Chinese who came to Taiwan with Chiang Kai-Shek.
The oldest one and who was also the leader and the funder of the
gang (Chen Chi-Li) is 2nd generation WSR. He is around 48 or 50
by now. His father was police. This gang was funded in Yun-Ho around
35 years ago.
>Many of
>the gang members are from the military personnel villages which
>were isolated from the rest of Taiwanese society.
>
Wrong. This gang wasn't from military village. Actually they fought against
one of the biggest military village gang Shu-Mon (blood federation) hard
before. I had high school classmate who was in bamboo gang. It was teenager
gang first. Once they grew older, they got into various underground businesses.
They actually fought and/or cooperated with many BSR/Taiwanese gangs
in many joint business. One was smuggling weapons. They import the fire
arms and BSRs distribute it. They are not isolated from the Taiwanese society
like many TI egg heads do. They even speak Hokolo very well. Many of these
people marry BSRs for various political or business reasons. :-) True.
>Bamboo Gang is well-known for its strong position against the Taiwan
>Independence movement. They are the most ardent defender of the Republic
>of China. A few years ago, in defending the name of Chiang Gin-Kuo, the
>son of Chiang Kai-Shek, three members of Bamboo Gang, inclduing one
>of their godfathers, Chen Chih-Li(aka Duck), came to the U.S. and
>executed a Chinese American, Mr. Henry Liu, in San Francisco.
In Daly city, south of S.F..
> Mr. Liu
>just finished a biography about Chiang Gin-Kuo. The book was
>conisdered an insult to the Chiang's family.
The story I know of was Liu was triple agent for ROC/PRC/USA. Chen CL
believed he worked for ROC's secret agent to execute the ROC traitor.
The general Wong and colonel Chen Hoo-Men who gave him order only
served few years in jail. KMT did and still do use mobs to do dirty jobs
for them. Many DPPers were dirty KMTers before, they should know
some of these dirty things first hand. DPP's big shot Hsu Hsin-Lian
knows quite lot of these stuffs who followed Li Houng for very long
time. There are many BSRs in Investigation agency responsible for
controlling/using local mobs can tell many dirty things. DPP need
to work on them to get more stores on this. Gangs or mobs were/are
not just WSRs. Percentage wise, I believe there are not more than
20% mobs in Taiwan are WSRs. Any one has statistics ? :-)
>
>In terms of ethnic background and national identity, Bamboo gang is
>very similar to the Chinese New Party.
There is no proof for that. At least, there was no Bamboo gang leader
stood out to support NP in public. There were several major gangs such
as BSR's Tin-Do-Mon's leader Lo Fu-Chu and Four-sea's leader (who also
ran for Legislative Rep.) stood out in public to support KMT. There were two
local gangs in Hsin-Chun and one in I-Lan stood out in public to support
DPP. Taiwan politics are gradually controlled by mobs and money in
national and local levels. All parties are guilty on this. It's one of the most
serious problems in Taiwan now. There are more than 35 local congress
leaders are/were mobs with records. Most of these mobs were in jail during CCK
time. DPP's legislator Yeh Ju-Lan said in a very sad tone once : "I will not
be surprised to see a mob President some day."
Jack
>
>
Bien-Chao Iunn
>The oldest one and who was also the leader and the funder of the
>gang (Chen Chi-Li) is 2nd generation WSR. He is around 48 or 50
>by now. His father was police. This gang was funded in Yun-Ho around
>35 years ago.
If Chen Chi-Li is 48 or 50, how could he be 2nd generation WSR ?
KMT came to Taiwan in 1949-1950. That was 45 years ago. As long
as the person was born outside of Taiwan, she/he is 1st generation.
Bien-Chao Iunn
>>very similar to the Chinese New Party.
In article <3ei57q$9...@male.EBay.Sun.COM> ja...@chao.ttay.tun.ttt writes:
>There is no proof for that. At least, there was no Bamboo gang leader
>stood out to support NP in public.
What are you talking about ? Read the above sentence again. It has
nothing to do with "Bamboo gang leader stood out to support NP in public".
It's a statment about the similar ethnic background and national identity
between these two groups. I consider it as a fact.
Ho Fan Chan
that?
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Andy Chan (Ho Fan Chan)
Information & Computer Science
University of California, Irvine
Yu Chang
I am no expert in Taiwan gangster or mob organization.
But I would tend to believe that Bamboo gang is not the only one
and there must be hundreds of other gangs and it would be safe to assume
that some of them would be BSR only and TI supports.
Please stop this kind of trick of separation.
Now who is the one stirring up hatred among BSR and WSR by trying to
relate the ethinic background of NP and Bamboo gang?
Chao got over 360,000 votes in the taipei major election.
Consider KMT Huang Dao Chou still got a good part of the iron votes,
I would believe a lot of BSR voted Chao unless 50% of Taipei voters
are WSR. Also, consider the founders of NP, more than 1/3 are BSR.
It is not a fact that NP is WSR only party.
Yu Chang
Bien-Chao Iunn <mcy...@pollux.usc.edu> wrote:
>In article <Pine.A32.3.91c.95010...@homer11.u.washington.edu>
>John Pyper <jbp...@u.washington.edu> writes:
>>Just a question: Does the Bamboo Gang actually support the NP or were
>>they using the NP as a sheild/red-herring to divert attention????
>>==============================================================================
>>J. Bruce Pyper jbp...@u.washington.edu
>>Graduate Student, China Studies
>>Jackson School, Univ. of Washington
>>Seattle, Wash. U.S.A.
>
>Bamboo Gang's members are alomst exclusively Wai-Shen-Ren(WSR, or
>Out-Of-Province people). They are 1st and 2nd generations of
>those Chinese who came to Taiwan with Chiang Kai-Shek. Many of
>the gang members are from the military personnel villages which
>were isolated from the rest of Taiwanese society.
Another separation trick?
Isolated from the rest of Taiwanese society?
>Bamboo Gang is well-known for its strong position against the Taiwan
>Independence movement. They are the most ardent defender of the Republic
>of China. A few years ago, in defending the name of Chiang Gin-Kuo, the
>son of Chiang Kai-Shek, three members of Bamboo Gang, inclduing one
>of their godfathers, Chen Chih-Li(aka Duck), came to the U.S. and
>executed a Chinese American, Mr. Henry Liu, in San Francisco. Mr. Liu
>just finished a biography about Chiang Gin-Kuo. The book was
>conisdered an insult to the Chiang's family.
Chen Chih-Li was fooled by then information agency director and thought
he was doing it for CCK. Henry Liu was not a respectable person (double
agent or something for serveral regimes) but
if you have read his book about CCK, you would not believe CCK would
have ordered him killed.
The book actually said a lot nice thing about CCK. If CCK could stand
insult from TIer and worse things said about him, there is no reason
he could not stand Henry Liu's book.
>In terms of ethnic background and national identity, Bamboo gang is
>very similar to the Chinese New Party.
1. It is NP, not Chinese NP.
Chinese became a bad name when TIer/DPPer associated it with PRC/CCP.
Go check ministry of interior record. NPer will not deny that they
are chinese but Wang Chien Shuan had protested that DPPer's dirty
trick trying to associate NP to CCP by calling it CNP.
2. Bamboo gang may want to support NP but so far there is no such
announcement from eith Bamboo gang or NP.
Bamboo gang organization is quite well known and it would not be
hard to verify it.
The killer denied and the owner of president hotel denied association
with Bamboo gang or NP.
3. Far fetched association of this kind will not help your creditability.
It was reported that DPP deputy major Chen Shi Mon said this incident
was "political". He had denied that. Why could not you radical TIer
stop making this up.
4. It is true that the driver is the victim but this could have been
avoided if the all people taxi union did not go back looking for fight
again and again. All people taxi union is no angel. Guess why Ar Bian
and Huang Dao Chou signed the "treaty" to make sure no more violence
from taxi drivers. We all know which group of taxi drivers they were
talking about.
Yu Chang
Yo Karl Dude,
I have 9 and 6 year old boys, guess how many "simpsons" I had to watch
with them. Only about 5 times each week, too much for my own good.
Dohhhhh (like homer said it).
Also I have caption adaptors, so believe me, it is "Yo dude". ;-)
I knew it that you were not talking to me but I just needed to be
sarcarstic every morning. Some use coffee to jump start, I read sct.
Oh, BTW, did I tell you that I like your sarcarstic tone in your posts.
yu
Shiwen Huang
Hopefully you can get to know the real truth before you stated your word
as a history. That person here asked a question may be for his study. If
your word misled him, how could he possibly have well done his study.
Henry Liu was been killed not due to your naive imagination or rumor of
his revealing Chiang Gin-Kuo's private life. As a matter of fact, that
book has been finished long ago and published for years before Liu's
death. How could a kill do to avoid this book's spreading at that time?
In addition, Liu was a paid-spy who worked for three sides, including
Taiwan (ROC), Mainland (PRC), and the US. His situation was always
dangerous because all three sides were wanting him. If ROC did that to
him, it would not be a simple personal thing but something which vitally
related to the country's sake. I am not sure what's your intention of
posting this untrue story but, you might get confused and misled by
those rumors. Or you have already wared this but tried to cover up and
use that as a weapon to put the odds on your side.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Karl Tsai
HO, HO, HO!
My hats off to Mr Yang and friends for doing the first poll on Bamboo
gang's political inclination...
I'm wondering what is the sampling rate of your work ... What? No
poll? Yet you "consider it as a fack"?
As we know that Tian1(sky) Dau4(way) Mong2 is one of the biggest gang
in Taiwan and primarily a "BSR" gang. According to your fine way of
inference, Tian Dau Mong shouldn't have beat up the DPP candidate (a
BSR) and his supporters - drivers from all people's taxi during the
past election, should it?
Now, care to add a few more exceptions or, conditions, to your rules of
inference?
--
Karl Tsai
Tom Li
>Out-Of-Province people). They are 1st and 2nd generations of
>those Chinese who came to Taiwan with Chiang Kai-Shek.
Bamboo Gangs are mostly WSR just like All-People Taxi drivers are mostly
BSR. I would rather judge people not based on their background but their
behavior but you prefer to judge people based on their background that
shows your deep "province-origin complex". I can understand the older
generation of BSR have such complex but younger people like you still
have such complex is pretty sad.
>[deleted]
>
>In terms of ethnic background and national identity, Bamboo gang is
>very similar to the Chinese New Party.
I believe New Party registered as "New Party" not "Chinese New Party"
but you deliberately link New Party with Chinese. LDH is a Chinese
but dislikes New Party.
"Ethnic background"? Bamboo gangs and you Mitch Yang are all ethnic Han
or ethnic Chinese (I hope you still remember you once called yourself
"Chinese Taiwanese") then I dont see any difference between you and
Bamboo gangs in terms of "ethnic background".
Tom
Tung-chiang Yang
see only at least two factions inside CCP which fought against each other
( say, after Mao's death we have the Four Bandits ), or one great leader
Mao who dominated everything as the Red Rising Sun, but not the kind of
"war of three parts" in ROC Taiwan :)
TC Yang,
01/06/95
==========================================================
Guanghua Gao (g...@renoir.caltech.edu) wrote:
: Thanks for sharing the Taiwan democracy situation with us. KMT is playing
: money plus mafia politics, DDP is playing mob politics and NT is playing
: gangster politics. These are the allegation by two of the three parties
: against
: the othe one. Here is the Taiwan experiences LDH so proude of. Want to
: sell it
: to the world?
: Guanghua Gao
Roland - PC
>In article <3egc6j$5...@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> l...@nyoss1.enet.dec.com (Tom Li) writes:
>>Gosh, Fish, did you read Taiwan's newspaper or not? Did you see the photo
>>showed on Taiwan's newspaper that the rioters set fire on Campagne Hall night
>>club and burned the night club ITSELF to the ground of course not the building
>>of the Presidental (Tung-I) Hotel. And this arson costs the owner of the
>>night club NT$8 millions and has to close down for good.
>Well, well, well, Tom Li is defending for Bamboo gansters!
>What's next? defending for CCP?
>Yeah, according to Tom Li's simplified statement, murder is OK, as
>long as, no photos are shown on the newspaper that Tom read.
I do not see Tom is defending Bamboo ganster and murder is OK.
>How poor logic Tom has!
>What a weak argument from Tom.
>Please be more specific!
>You earned the name "Tom Liar" for good reasons.
Is your L assocaited with "Liar"?
Roland Hsu
"Just want to be fair"
>>Frankly, I dont really care if you or others call me anything as long as
>>I can provide the source of information. Your name-calling only shows
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Excuse us, what source of information did you provide?
>Mind naming some for us, what pages?
>Solid evidence, please.
>Happy Chinese pig year!
>T.H.L.
>
>>you are nervous about the truth.
>>And time to read not just shout, sir.
>>Tom
Shiwen Huang
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Yes, you always "consider" your prejudice as a "fact"!
jack chao
In article h...@raptor.eng.pyramid.com, y...@pyramid.com (Yu Chang) writes:
>
>Chen Chih-Li was fooled by then information agency director and thought
>he was doing it for CCK.
I think Chen CL said few times in public that he believed he did the
right thing for ROC. It wasn't related to CCK and he didn't know CCK's
son at all.
>Henry Liu was not a respectable person (double
>agent or something for serveral regimes) but
>if you have read his book about CCK, you would not believe CCK would
>have ordered him killed.
>
>The book actually said a lot nice thing about CCK. If CCK could stand
>insult from TIer and worse things said about him, there is no reason
>he could not stand Henry Liu's book.
True. There was a much worse book about Chiang's family "Jian Ling Chun
Mon" (Dream in Nanjing) was circulated around in oversea and Taiwan
when CCK was in power. CCK was much more open minded than many
Chinese leaders on this.
Jack
jack chao
>mcy...@pollux.usc.edu (Bien-Chao Iunn) writes:
>
>>>>In terms of ethnic background and national identity, Bamboo gang is
>>>>very similar to the Chinese New Party.
>
>>In article <3ei57q$9...@male.EBay.Sun.COM> ja...@chao.ttay.tun.ttt writes:
>>>There is no proof for that. At least, there was no Bamboo gang leader
>>>stood out to support NP in public.
>
>>What are you talking about ? Read the above sentence again. It has
>>nothing to do with "Bamboo gang leader stood out to support NP in public".
>>It's a statment about the similar ethnic background and national identity
>>between these two groups. I consider it as a fact.
Thanks, almost missed this one.
Iunn,
When I first read your question, I thought you made mistake so I tried
to answer some thing I thought you really meant. I guess I was wrong.
Now let's see the "fact" you described :
"In terms of ethnic background and national identity...". Bamboo gang's
ethnic background is same as every one in Taiwan except some aboriginal
Taiwaneses. They identify ROC as their nation which is majority Taiwan
residents' national identity (check the election and poll results before
you jump, I just quote the "fact"). NP members are subset of the majority
Taiwan residents. What you say ?
Please stop creating an illusion that most Taiwan residents don't identify
themself to ROC. It's not true. These 20+% of Taiwan residents who don't
identify themself as ROC citizens just have louder voices. Now, you need
work harder to pursue people to follow you. But don't cheat. :-)
Jack
Bien-Chao Iunn
>In article h...@raptor.eng.pyramid.com, y...@pyramid.com (Yu Chang) writes:
>>Chen Chih-Li was fooled by then information agency director and thought
>>he was doing it for CCK.
>I think Chen CL said few times in public that he believed he did the
>right thing for ROC. It wasn't related to CCK and he didn't know CCK's
^^^^^ ^^^^^ ^^^ ^^^
>son at all.
If Chen Chih-Li can be fooled by then information agency director,
the rest of the Bamboo gang can be fooled by other people to kill too.
If Chen Chih-Li believed that he did the right thing for ROC by
murdering Henry Liu, he and his Bamboo gang followers might do the
same things for those vowing to defend ROC. Does this mean that
as long as it is "the right thing for ROC", Bomboo gang will kill ?
jack chao
for many mobs who support different parties. Many of these mobs, no
matter what group they belong to (BSR or WSR), are ruthless and poorly
educated. It's every body's duty to educate these mobs. At least, don't
stir up the hatreds between them. It's absolutely immoral.
My friend told me during the 9/25/94 Kaoshung incident, he was shocked
by many DPP mobs' deep hatred toward WSR. He said some mobs really
believed they were doing the right thing for their truely loved land.
By the way, I never agreed with what Bamboo gangs or dirty KMTers did.
I called them all "dirty" by killing Liu if you paid attention to my earlier
post. No body can be above the law !
Let's hope some day our DPPers can come out condemning obvious
crimes committed by their following mobs. At least, don't cover it
up or romanticalize it. Crime is crime. The one started the fight,
those who join the fight, and those who cheered up the fight on the
side line are all guilty. Did we all learn this in kindergarten ? :-)
Jack
Shiwen Huang
>If Chen Chih-Li can be fooled by then information agency director,
>the rest of the Bamboo gang can be fooled by other people to kill too.
>If Chen Chih-Li believed that he did the right thing for ROC by
>murdering Henry Liu, he and his Bamboo gang followers might do the
>same things for those vowing to defend ROC. Does this mean that
>as long as it is "the right thing for ROC", Bomboo gang will kill ?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Chen Chih-Li's once belonging to Bamboo gang doesn't mean that the
Bamboo gang has a strong connection with ROC. Try to use this particular
incident to blackmail and abase the reputation of ROC is truely a moronic
trick.
What's wrong for the people who supporting ROC? Isn't that the country
locates in Taiwan island where you grew up at? They are supporting their
own country. And is that a "crime"? Actually, based on current situation
in Taiwan and the ROC government system, your disagreement is truely a
"crime".
According to your belief, if and only if, unfortunately (maybe to you
it's fortunately), TI movement succeeds. Those who you're currently
blaming at will call your new nation (ROT) a "fake" and link ROT to
whatever gangster they can pick up as you forced Bamboo be with ROC. And
by then you are one of the murderers. What are you gonna do??? Go do the
"right thing for ROT"? Kill those different voices? Yes, that'll be
true. But, anyhow, this still is a dream to you. ROC is still in Taiwan.
And you are the rebel who tries to overthrow the country.
Tom Li
Mitch Yang (Bien-Chao Iunn) has been trying to link New Party with Bamboo
Gangs.
Here is my question:
If you go to prison in Taiwan, you can find DPP, NP, and KMT supporters
among the prisoners, does that mean political party is responsible for
the crime those prisoners committed? The answer is NO.
Now question is that has New Party ever used Bamboo Gangs to achieve
their political goal? The answer is NO.
Then what's Mitch Yang's problem?
Another question is that has DPP/TIers ever used All-People Taxi drivers
to achieve their political goal? The answer is YES.
Therefore I think Mitch Yang should condemn DPP/TIers but not NP.
Tom
Wang Lixin
---
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Similar to some SCHKers, I am not familiar with Bamboo
gang.
Based on my limited knowledge, the former information
agency director was wrong. By killing Herny Liu, it actually
created a negative publicity on ROC. It was especially worse
as the murder took place in California as US Government felt
losing face. Hence, more pressure on ROC by US. In addition,
the sales of the book about CCK increased after the incident
which attracted more readers.
Perhaps Chen Chih-Li was to blame. But he was just a
"big brother". If he did not take that assignment, someone else
could.
T
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -