double deficits
Edwin Tang
Edwin Tang
A top news from overseas Central Daily News (CDN) on March 6 that Taiwan, for
the first time since recession years in 70s, is facing double deficits in both
government budget and international trades. The main reasons, according to
CDN, are six-years plan (How about scandals in 18th project and transit
system?) and military expenses (How about overpricing F-16 and IDF-I Don't
Fight/fly- project?); other minor reasons include traveling expenses and
indirect investments in mainland China, increasing foreign labor expenses and
heavy consumption of luxury goods that are drying out Taiwan's deep pocket.
CDN also reports another top news titled "Spending! Spending! Taiwan's
Economy is now in the era of Consumption!" that Taiwanese can afford luxury
items such Japanese cars, European cosmetics and antique oil paintings,
Hungarian buses (another scandal), and Chinese real estates. As usual, CDN
tries to mislead readers to blame double deficits to overspending on "luxury"
items but not to KMT's mismanagement.
One major reason that CDN seems not dare to mention is Hau3 Bo2-tsun1's
forceful One-China policy in the last two years. As a former military
general, Mr. Hau's naive six-years plan and his irresponsible cabinet members
have created such economic chaos (and the failure of KMT's election) that when
he stepped down last month, Taiwan's stock market applauds happily with his
resign and the stock price has continuously risen ever since. Thanks also
for his famous slogan "I love Taiwan, but I love China more," many businessmen
were blindly guided by this absurd policy and invested in China. An estimated
20 percent of Taiwanese currency has been poured into China (when Hau was in
power), according to CDN. If this is true, then half of those currency
immediately turns into blank papers after China announced Zen2-Min2-bi4
(China's currency) was devalued to 50% last month.
Finally, CDN predicts Taiwan will encounter "high interest rates and de-
valuation of New Taiwan Dollars" and possibly a recession in the near future
if such spending situation continues. At that time, of course, ROC will "be
unified" rather than "unify" with China. What a great job you did for Taiwan,
Mr. Hau.
Edwin Tang
Chung Hsiung Yang
I don't know where your arguements are comming from, but Taiwan
can not affort not to have a "six-year plan". I have been back to Taiwan
recently and both the high way and the airport are extremely crowded.
This bottleneck has slowed down Taiwan's ecnomic growth. If you take a
poll in Taiwan this very moment, I'd believe most people will not deny the
necessity for building a second highway, high speed mass transit, and
new airport run-ways.
The fact the the former priminister started this project gave you
a reason to used for your own poltical gain, but the fact is, if it was
a DPP person in his position, these same decision would have been made
no matter what.
I mean how can you not have growth? How can you not have
modern weapons for defense? If you had it your way, Taiwan would be
stagnant, it would be worse off than it is.
There are problems I admit. One is the real estate market
and the other is the stock market. The real estate reform has been
proposed by a former finance minister who is a KMT, you can't blame
him for trying, he resigned because of this issue. The stock market
is not very well organized, I am not familiar with the reason why.
But let me remind you, the government is run by all people of
Taiwan be it KMT or DPP or independents. Much of these plans were
radified by the representative from the respective parties.
As far as investment in China is concerned. It is not the
miss management of KMT that cause that, it is the nature of bussiness
and risk taking. I don't understand why you would want to make that
kind of argument and blame KMT for everything when it is clearly not
a fault of a political party.
> Finally, CDN predicts Taiwan will encounter "high interest rates and de-
> valuation of New Taiwan Dollars" and possibly a recession in the near future
> if such spending situation continues. At that time, of course, ROC will "be
> unified" rather than "unify" with China. What a great job you did for Taiwan,
> Mr. Hau.
>
Yes, Hau may have not done the best job he could do, but you are
not improving the situation either. You could be more constructive
maybe we can solve this problem.
- C. H. Yang
>
> Edwin Tang
>
>
Edwin Tang
The argument is not whether transportation or six-year plan is necessary to
Taiwan's economy, but whether the plan is managed in good hands. Scandals
in 18th project, Taipei's transit system, and Hungarian buses are only the
top of iceberg that Mr. Hau in alliance with New KMT Line and military
influence for corruptions. KMT sets up many barriers or standards that
only KMT's controlled dummy companies can compete for most of projects in
six-year plan. I am glad you visit Taiwan recently. But, maybe you didn't
ask any taxi drivers or Taiwanese on the street, I bet you would hear more
stories about six-year plan and how corruptive KMT is.
>
> The fact the the former priminister started this project gave you
>a reason to used for your own poltical gain, but the fact is, if it was
>a DPP person in his position, these same decision would have been made
>no matter what.
Thank you for you to admit that the purpose of six-yaer plan is for
political gain. But is it even better without KMT's scandals involved?
>
> I mean how can you not have growth? How can you not have
>modern weapons for defense? If you had it your way, Taiwan would be
>stagnant, it would be worse off than it is.
No one deny the importance of growth and defense capability. But do we have
to pay overpriced F-16 with some invisible hands in robbing fat commissions?
Do we have to claim a breakthrough success when the second-hand technology
from US such as IDF (I Don't Fight/Fly) airplane was really a fault?
>
> There are problems I admit. One is the real estate market
>and the other is the stock market. The real estate reform has been
>proposed by a former finance minister who is a KMT, you can't blame
>him for trying, he resigned because of this issue. The stock market
>is not very well organized, I am not familiar with the reason why.
Fair enough. Please read Economics Professor Chang1 Ching1-Hsih1's
(National Taiwan Univ.) book about how KMT's dummy companies play unfairly
in the stock market and many other industires.
>
> But let me remind you, the government is run by all people of
>Taiwan be it KMT or DPP or independents. Much of these plans were
>radified by the representative from the respective parties.
Only started last December that DPP brought people's voice into the
government, although such voive is not loud enough yet. I am not sure your
"all people" means "old thieves" or not.
>
> As far as investment in China is concerned. It is not the
>miss management of KMT that cause that, it is the nature of bussiness
>and risk taking. I don't understand why you would want to make that
>kind of argument and blame KMT for everything when it is clearly not
>a fault of a political party.
Wrong again! If a dominate party like KMT has a clear mission and
objective, has a clear idea of what is a friend or enemy, has a clear idea
not to say "One China Means ROC" (What a stupid claim!), has mian concerns
about her own people... such situation could be better managed.
>
>> Finally, CDN predicts Taiwan will encounter "high interest rates and de-
>> valuation of New Taiwan Dollars" and possibly a recession in the near future
>> if such spending situation continues. At that time, of course, ROC will "be
>> unified" rather than "unify" with China. What a great job you did for Taiwan,
>> Mr. Hau.
>>
> Yes, Hau may have not done the best job he could do, but you are
>not improving the situation either. You could be more constructive
>maybe we can solve this problem.
I am glad Mr. Hau already stepped down along with his military cabinet
members, I am glad professionals are graduately respected.
More constructve suggestion? How about ask those New KMT Lines Members keep
quiet. (Just kidding, don't be serious.)
Edwin Tang
>- C. H. Yang
Heng Chu
>Scandals
>in 18th project, Taipei's transit system, and Hungarian buses are only the
>top of iceberg that Mr. Hau in alliance with New KMT Line and military
>influence for corruptions.
I hope such allegations come with some evidence. At least I fail to
read any information about Mr. Hau's involvement. Besides, wasn't the
ex-Minister of Transportation Chien a cabinet member of Hau's?
>I am glad Mr. Hau already stepped down along with his military cabinet
>members, I am glad professionals are graduately respected.
You mean you think Mr. Sun Chien, current Minister of Defense, is a
professonal in DEFENSE? :-)
>More constructve suggestion? How about ask those New KMT Lines Members keep
>quiet. (Just kidding, don't be serious.)
You are responsible for the distrubance of New KMT Alliance seminar
the other day in Kaohsiung, aren't you? You don't support freedom of speech
(like that of TIers'), do you? (Just kidding, don't be serious. :-)
Heng
Ty Lee
>
>I am glad Mr. Hau already stepped down along with his military cabinet
>members, I am glad professionals are graduately respected.
>
>
Ahem.
Who in the former cabinet had the military background except Hau?
Even the head of ministry of defense was a so-called technocrat with
US trained Ph.D. degree, which is the most favorite one by Lee, T.H.
Who in the former cabinet were not professionals and not respected?
>
>Edwin Tang
>
>
>>- C. H. Yang
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
=============================================================================
= The opinions are my own, not my employer's. Ty Lee =
=============================================================================
Chung Hsiung Yang
What is the government supposed to do? Go back on a controlled
economy? That is communism! How will to government stop people from
investing in China????? You can't! Taiwan has a captilistic system
with minimum government involvement you can't prevent things like that
unless you contolled the people who has the money. No one who has money
would like to be controlled like that.
>
> >
> >> Finally, CDN predicts Taiwan will encounter "high interest rates and de-
> >> valuation of New Taiwan Dollars" and possibly a recession in the near future
> >> if such spending situation continues. At that time, of course, ROC will "be
> >> unified" rather than "unify" with China. What a great job you did for Taiwan,
> >> Mr. Hau.
> >>
> > Yes, Hau may have not done the best job he could do, but you are
> >not improving the situation either. You could be more constructive
> >maybe we can solve this problem.
>
>
> I am glad Mr. Hau already stepped down along with his military cabinet
> members, I am glad professionals are graduately respected.
>
> More constructve suggestion? How about ask those New KMT Lines Members keep
> quiet. (Just kidding, don't be serious.)
>
>
> Edwin Tang
>
>
Concerning this issue, if you have a better suggestion please
do so. I don't feel this discussion is constructive at all. You raise
the problems and lay the blames. I don't know if that is going to
help the situation. No matter what, there may by abuses as such, but
building Taiwan is badly needed. At least something is done now, and
the result good or bad is something that I can live with. You can be
helpful at least by giving suggestion as how the present situation can
be remedied.
BTW, abandoning the six year plan is out of the question in my
book. Progress must go on.
- C. H. Yang
>
>
>
>
>
>
Steven Lin
>
>The argument is not whether transportation or six-year plan is necessary to
>Taiwan's economy, but whether the plan is managed in good hands. Scandals
>in 18th project, Taipei's transit system, and Hungarian buses are only the
>top of iceberg that Mr. Hau in alliance with New KMT Line and military
>influence for corruptions. KMT sets up many barriers or standards that
>only KMT's controlled dummy companies can compete for most of projects in
>six-year plan.
>
What is "Hau in alliance with New KMT Line and military influence for
corruptions"? What the corruptions were this referred to?
This person is incapable to read message. The 18-bid was a problem of black
hand, that is Lee Deng Hui. The current problems are all due to Lee. A
president has no business with those detail things, but he did any way.
>No one deny the importance of growth and defense capability. But do we have
>to pay overpriced F-16 with some invisible hands in robbing fat commissions?
>Do we have to claim a breakthrough success when the second-hand technology
>from US such as IDF (I Do Fight/Fly) airplane was really a fault?
>
Were you talking about a model airplane for kids to play around?
IDF is not matured as a fact, but how many airplane came out to be perfect
in proto type? The IDF performance has gone beyond the expections. Why don't
you check back how much failures that each individual airplane has been thru
in US airjets? ROC up to this point with so much hardship, don't you think you
should appreciate KMT has done so much than enough, for you guys to be proud of?
Supposed TIers take the power, you can expect what you will have to suffer
in your children, or ten years later.
>
>> As far as investment in China is concerned. It is not the
>>miss management of KMT that cause that, it is the nature of bussiness
>>and risk taking. I don't understand why you would want to make that
>>kind of argument and blame KMT for everything when it is clearly not
>>a fault of a political party.
>Wrong again! If a dominate party like KMT has a clear mission and
>objective, has a clear idea of what is a friend or enemy, has a clear idea
>not to say "One China Means ROC" (What a stupid claim!), has mian concerns
>about her own people... such situation could be better managed.
>
Who said KMT doesn't have a clear mission and goal? It is TIers meshed up
Lee Deng Hui's mind. What did you mean friend and enemy? You and your brothers
can be friend and enemy, did you mean that? One China as ROC is clear so
far to bring ROC to today, properious. If one day when Lee Deng Hui gets too
old to listen the world, he may be just only able to follow TIers to hell.
>
>I am glad Mr. Hau already stepped down along with his military cabinet
>members, I am glad professionals are graduately respected.
>
You are gald? It is the point downward. The 6 year plan is not going to work
out as Hao pushed for. As News reported, there is so much budgedt money so far
is still not used, the marginal premier will do the worse as you can expect.
>More constructve suggestion? How about ask those New KMT Lines Members keep
>quiet. (Just kidding, don't be serious.)
>
Those people have to speak out, or else, the black hand will never give up.
What a DPP educated person asking people to be quiet while he makes loud
noise? What is the idea of democracy? Just TIers can talk?
>
>Edwin Tang
>
Edwin Tang
>Ahem.
>
>Who in the former cabinet had the military background except Hau?
>Even the head of ministry of defense was a so-called technocrat with
>US trained Ph.D. degree, which is the most favorite one by Lee, T.H.
>Who in the former cabinet were not professionals and not respected?
If Mr. Hau and his cabinet members are such professional and well
respected, the price of stock market in Taiwan would decline rather than
rise continuously after Mr. Hau was forced to step down.
Edwin Tang
Edwin Tang
>From: c...@cs.unc.edu (Heng Chu)
>In article <tang.5.0@econbus2> tang@econbus2 (Edwin Tang) writes:
>>Scandals
>>in 18th project, Taipei's transit system, and Hungarian buses are only the
>>top of iceberg that Mr. Hau in alliance with New KMT Line and military
>>influence for corruptions.
>
>I hope such allegations come with some evidence. At least I fail to
>read any information about Mr. Hau's involvement. Besides, wasn't the
>ex-Minister of Transportation Chien a cabinet member of Hau's?
Ask your Taiwanese FBI and CIA friends, they will tell you more stories
about Mr. Hau's connections to these scandals.
>
>>I am glad Mr. Hau already stepped down along with his military cabinet
>>members, I am glad professionals are graduately respected.
>
>You mean you think Mr. Sun Chien, current Minister of Defense, is a
>professonal in DEFENSE? :-)
You mean KMT has made a foolish decision? I agree.
>
>>More constructve suggestion? How about ask those New KMT Lines Members keep
>>quiet. (Just kidding, don't be serious.)
>
>You are responsible for the distrubance of New KMT Alliance seminar
>the other day in Kaohsiung, aren't you? You don't support freedom of speech
>(like that of TIers'), do you? (Just kidding, don't be serious. :-)
Not only the KMT party want to punish New KMT Alliance (please read Central
Daily News) but also Taiwanese people hate to see a bunch of people forget
who they are. The freedom of speech is not to separt a great party like KMT,
right?
Edwin Tang
Edwin Tang
>From: st...@stevelin.Eng.Sun.COM (Steven Lin)
>Subject: Re: double deficits
>Date: 16 Mar 1993 21:33:28 GMT
>In article <tang.5.0@econbus2> tang@econbus2 (Edwin Tang) writes:
>>>In article <tang.3.0@econbus2>, tang@econbus2 (Edwin Tang) writes:
>>
>>The argument is not whether transportation or six-year plan is necessary to
>>Taiwan's economy, but whether the plan is managed in good hands. Scandals
>>in 18th project, Taipei's transit system, and Hungarian buses are only the
>>top of iceberg that Mr. Hau in alliance with New KMT Line and military
>>influence for corruptions. KMT sets up many barriers or standards that
>>only KMT's controlled dummy companies can compete for most of projects in
>>six-year plan.
>>
>The DPP side effect has impacted this person to his deep mind, unmatured.
>What is "Hau in alliance with New KMT Line and military influence for
>corruptions"? What the corruptions were this referred to?
>This person is incapable to read message. The 18-bid was a problem of black
>hand, that is Lee Deng Hui. The current problems are all due to Lee. A
>president has no business with those detail things, but he did any way.
Thank you for pointing out Lee Deng Hui is not qualified as a president.
He is also the head of KMT party. So, who involved in all these scandals?
Obviously it is KMT rather than other parties.
>
>>No one deny the importance of growth and defense capability. But do we have
>>to pay overpriced F-16 with some invisible hands in robbing fat commissions?
>>Do we have to claim a breakthrough success when the second-hand technology
>>from US such as IDF (I Do Fight/Fly) airplane was really a fault?
>>
>Were you talking about a model airplane for kids to play around?
>IDF is not matured as a fact, but how many airplane came out to be perfect
>in proto type? The IDF performance has gone beyond the expections. Why don't
>you check back how much failures that each individual airplane has been thru
>in US airjets? ROC up to this point with so much hardship, don't you think you
>should appreciate KMT has done so much than enough, for you guys to be proud of?
>
>Supposed TIers take the power, you can expect what you will have to suffer
>in your children, or ten years later.
Very good! No one ask you or your children to stay in Taiwan after TI is
realized. To avoid such suffer, may I suggest you and your children live
in China?
>>
>>> As far as investment in China is concerned. It is not the
>>>miss management of KMT that cause that, it is the nature of bussiness
>>>and risk taking. I don't understand why you would want to make that
>>>kind of argument and blame KMT for everything when it is clearly not
>>>a fault of a political party.
>>Wrong again! If a dominate party like KMT has a clear mission and
>>objective, has a clear idea of what is a friend or enemy, has a clear idea
>>not to say "One China Means ROC" (What a stupid claim!), has mian concerns
>>about her own people... such situation could be better managed.
>>
>Who said KMT doesn't have a clear mission and goal? It is TIers meshed up
>Lee Deng Hui's mind. What did you mean friend and enemy? You and your brothers
>can be friend and enemy, did you mean that? One China as ROC is clear so
>far to bring ROC to today, properious. If one day when Lee Deng Hui gets too
>old to listen the world, he may be just only able to follow TIers to hell.
I agree Lee Deng Hui, an "old thieves" elected president, is out of his
mind. But I don't think KMT is stupid enought to let Lee go to hell.
>>
>>I am glad Mr. Hau already stepped down along with his military cabinet
>>members, I am glad professionals are graduately respected.
>>
>You are gald? It is the point downward. The 6 year plan is not going to work
>out as Hao pushed for. As News reported, there is so much budgedt money so far
>is still not used, the marginal premier will do the worse as you can expect.
>
>>More constructve suggestion? How about ask those New KMT Lines Members keep
>>quiet. (Just kidding, don't be serious.)
>>
>Those people have to speak out, or else, the black hand will never give up.
>What a DPP educated person asking people to be quiet while he makes loud
>noise? What is the idea of democracy? Just TIers can talk?
In fact, it is New KMT alliance try very hard to make noises. They even
complain about main streamers monopolize public media. Kao1-Hsoan2 event
certainly gave them a chance to show up on KMT's TV channels.
Edwin Tang
Heng Chu
[About Mr. Tang's claim about Hau'and others' involvement in corruption]
>
>Ask your Taiwanese FBI and CIA friends, they will tell you more stories
>about Mr. Hau's connections to these scandals.
Why don't you tell us about it since you brought it up so positively?
Be careful there are people who hate to see others make false claims.
They might ask you for an explanation and/or apology and run after you
until you have done so. :-)
>Not only the KMT party want to punish New KMT Alliance (please read Central
>Daily News) but also Taiwanese people hate to see a bunch of people forget
>who they are. The freedom of speech is not to separt a great party like KMT,
>right?
It's sad that CDN has influence on you. :-(
So what if some people suppress TI by saying "the freedom of speech is
not to separate a great country like ROC, right?"
Everyone has his/her freedom of speech.
Heng
Joseph C Wang
>about Mr. Hau's connections to these scandals.
Unfortunately, I don't have any friends who will admit to being
members of the Taiwanese FBI and CIA, so I'll have to ask you for
information regarding these allegations. If you have evidence that
ex-Premier Hau was connected to scandals, it is your duty to bring
this evidence before the net. If you don't have such evidence, then I
don't think its a good idea to make these accusations
Edwin Tang
>From: tsen...@student.tc.umn.edu (Maoee Tsen-1)
>Subject: Re: double deficits
>Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1993 23:15:22 GMT
>tax law about stock exchange which was passed just before Hau stepped down.
>The stock exchange tax is lower in the new law.
You are absoulately right! But who tried to manipulate "new old" law,
or "old new" law? Who tried to influence the stock market by an invisible
hand? The KMT party!
Edwin Tang
Edwin Tang
>>Ask your ROC's FBI and CIA friends, they will tell you more stories
>
>Why don't you tell us about it since you brought it up so positively?
>Be careful there are people who hate to see others make false claims.
>They might ask you for an explanation and/or apology and run after you
>until you have done so. :-)
Maybe KMT spies hate to see all these. Let me give you another example that
just happened recently. ROC's CIA tried to cover Chiang Kei-Sheik's
grandson-in-low involved in raping a woman. The reply from Chiang's
relatves: "Raping a Taiwanese woman is nothing." Oh, sure, Chiang's army
have raped many Chinese and Japanese woman anyway, raping one Taiwanese
woman is really nothing. Just wait and see what will happen. Have a nice
dream, my CIA and KMT friends!
>
>>Not only the KMT party want to punish New KMT Alliance (please read Central
>>Daily News) but also Taiwanese people hate to see a bunch of people forget
>>who they are. The freedom of speech is not to separt a great party like KMT,
>>right?
>
>It's sad that CDN has influence on you. :-(
>
>So what if some people suppress TI by saying "the freedom of speech is
>not to separate a great country like ROC, right?"
Hey, you live in US long enough, do you really believe KMT's propaganda "
One China means ROC"? Leave your computer for a while, walk out and ask any
of your American or Chinese friends this same dumb claim. I think New KMT
alliance's separation is more harmful than TIers.
Edwin Tang
Ty Lee
>
> ...
>respected, the price of stock market in Taiwan would decline rather than
>rise continuously after Mr. Hau was forced to step down.
>
Answer my question please.
"Who in the former cabinet were not professionals and not respected?"
I asked the question above and you answered that with stock market price.
What kind of answer is this? I don't see your points.
Yes, Mr. Hau was forced to resign. Can you tell me who forced him?
>Edwin Tang
--
=============================================================================
= The opinions are my own. I don't know my employer's opinions. Ty Lee =
=============================================================================
Joseph C Wang
>Maybe KMT spies hate to see all these. Let me give you another example that
>just happened recently. ROC's CIA tried to cover Chiang Kei-Sheik's
>grandson-in-low involved in raping a woman. The reply from Chiang's
>relatves: "Raping a Taiwanese woman is nothing."
Again, could you provide evidence to support this claim? If you keep
making accusations without evidence then eventually no one will
believe you.
Maybe you are a member of the Taiwan CIA who is trying to make TI look
bad by making a lot of accusations without evidence. :-) :-) :-) :-)
Edwin Tang
>From: j...@athena.mit.edu (Joseph C Wang)
>Subject: Re: double deficits
>Date: 17 Mar 1993 16:20:56 GMT
Fair enough. My original pmail is military connections (such as military
retirees association) involved in 18th bid which is one example of Mr. Hau's
mismanagement.
Edwin Tang
Edwin Tang
>From: ty...@leety.austin.ibm.com (Ty Lee)
>Subject: Re: double deficits
>Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1993 16:54:20 GMT
>In article <tang.7.0@econbus2> tang@econbus2 (Edwin Tang) writes:
>>
>> ...
>> If Mr. Hau and his cabinet members are such professional and well
>>respected, the price of stock market in Taiwan would decline rather than
>>rise continuously after Mr. Hau was forced to step down.
>>
>
>Answer my question please.
>
>"Who in the former cabinet were not professionals and not respected?"
The two nonstreamers who escaped from their own jobs and involved in KMT's
infight and power struggling. And, very recently, the Kao-hsiung event.
>
>I asked the question above and you answered that with stock market price.
>What kind of answer is this? I don't see your points.
>
>Yes, Mr. Hau was forced to resign. Can you tell me who forced him?
By Hau2-Yu3-lu4, his own stupid stetements such as "Kin1-mon2 does not
need a library since no one reads no book there," "Nuclear plants are 200%
safe," "One China, two systems," "One China means ROC"....... You name it!
==> = The opinions are my own. I don't know my employer's opinions. Ty
Lee
You don't have to. Who care what is your employer and its opinions?
As long as your employer is not KMT, no one will spy on you.
Edwin Tang
Tien-Pao Shih
|>
|> >>Ask your ROC's FBI and CIA friends, they will tell you more stories
|> >>about Mr. Hau's connections to these scandals.
|> >
|> >Why don't you tell us about it since you brought it up so positively?
|> >Be careful there are people who hate to see others make false claims.
|> >They might ask you for an explanation and/or apology and run after you
|> >until you have done so. :-)
|>
|>
|> Maybe KMT spies hate to see all these. Let me give you another example that
|> just happened recently. ROC's CIA tried to cover Chiang Kei-Sheik's
|> grandson-in-low involved in raping a woman. The reply from Chiang's
|> relatves: "Raping a Taiwanese woman is nothing." Oh, sure, Chiang's army
|> have raped many Chinese and Japanese woman anyway, raping one Taiwanese
|> woman is really nothing. Just wait and see what will happen. Have a nice
|> dream, my CIA and KMT friends!
|>
|>
|>
I read many of your and other's mails about this issue. It may become
an interesting topic. However, it seems to me that you kept on changing
the content of discussion and led the discussion to a new subject which
has nothing to do with this. It is really not good to badly attack a
particular person especially when he, Fong family, had been proved not
involved in the rape scandal. You look to me like a story-teller. Why
not present things with more evidence, so that the discussion would
more instructive. (This is just my suggestion.)
Tien-Pao
Ty Lee
>>
>>Answer my question please.
>>
>>"Who in the former cabinet were not professionals and not respected?"
>
>The two nonstreamers who escaped from their own jobs and involved in KMT's
>infight and power struggling. And, very recently, the Kao-hsiung event.
>
I don't see anything wrong with their activities. They should have freedom
to express their opinions. They should have the freedom to hold forum to
discuss their opinions. And, these freedoms are destroyed by the supposedly
camouflaged *democratic progress* yahoos. Just like DPP mobs abuse the freedom
to ransack the government.
And, their activities are
their own sole responsibilities. Why are you so upset about their so-called
infight between the CNPers. I still don't understand what you mean by
they are not professionals and not respected. Who do not respect them?
The GOLD COWS, the special interest groups, the DPP mobs, and the screwed-up
jerks.
At first, your original post
said something about Hau's cabinet were military cabinet. I disagreed. Then
you said the cabinet members were not professionals. And, you replied
with market price drop. Then, I have to ask for what area should the cabinet
members be professional at. It has been a tradition that the ROC cabinet
members generally are not professinoal at certain areas. And it doesn't need to be. They have got a bunch of staffs to support them. I suppose the cabinet
memebrs are empowered to make decision according to the informations
gathered from the staffs.
And, I don't see their being not professional and not respected (supposedly)
have anything to do with everything you said. I guess I am talking to
another Mr. ROT. I hope not.
>>Yes, Mr. Hau was forced to resign. Can you tell me who forced him?
>
> By Hau2-Yu3-lu4, his own stupid stetements such as "Kin1-mon2 does not
>need a library since no one reads no book there," "Nuclear plants are 200%
>safe," "One China, two systems," "One China means ROC"....... You name it!
>
I failed to see your points. Are you dyslexia or what?
Glad you broght this up, what's wrong with those? And, did he ever say those
stuff?
>
>You don't have to. Who care what is your employer and its opinions?
I don't know why in the world would a person have comment on
somebody's disclaimer.
>As long as your employer is not KMT, no one will spy on you.
>
Or, Mr. ROT number two.
>Edwin Tang
--
=============================================================================
= The opinions are my own. I don't know my employer's opinions. Ty Lee =
=============================================================================
Edwin Tang
>From: c...@cs.unc.edu (Heng Chu)
>Subject: Re: double deficits
>Date: 17 Mar 1993 12:12:23 -0500
>In article <tang.11.0@econbus2> tang@econbus2 (Edwin Tang) writes:
>>
>>>>about Mr. Hau's connections to these scandals.
>>
>>just happened recently. ROC's CIA tried to cover Chiang Kei-Sheik's
>>grandson-in-low involved in raping a woman. The reply from Chiang's
>>relatves: "Raping a Taiwanese woman is nothing." Oh, sure, Chiang's army
>>have raped many Chinese and Japanese woman anyway, raping one Taiwanese
>>woman is really nothing. Just wait and see what will happen. Have a nice
>>dream, my CIA and KMT friends!
>
>Mr. Tang's ROC CIA friends; or it may come from those tabloid-style
>periodicals in Taiwan). Can Mr. Tang confirm the source?
>
>And, where is the evidence that Hau's involvements in the scandals???
>
>>Hey, you live in US long enough, do you really believe KMT's propaganda "
>>One China means ROC"? Leave your computer for a while, walk out and ask any
>>of your American or Chinese friends this same dumb claim. I think New KMT
>>alliance's separation is more harmful than TIers.
>
>support the recognition of the existence of ROC and RPC. Whatever KMT
>or TI claims is fine with me although I might disagree and argue.
>
>No matter how stupid one's claims, one still enjoy freedom of speech.
>Obviously Mr. Tang doesn't respect that. I sincerely hope Taiwan won't
>be governed by someone like Mr. Tang someday. :-)
Thank you. I don't have such political ambition like New KMT or Chao4-sau4-
Kan1.
Edwin Tang
Edwin Tang
>From: hui...@quip.eecs.umich.edu (Tien-Pao Shih)
>Subject: Re: double deficits
>Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1993 19:49:04 GMT
This sounds to me also a story teller. For detail story, please read Today's
Indepence News.
Edwin Tang
Ty Lee
>
>Please read the "News from Taiwan" that I posted. The court rules New KMT
>is guilty. That is your KMT court against your KMT sub-party, what else can
>I say?
>
I beg your pardon. What is this? And, did I miss anything from your *news*?
By what Taiwanese law could you allege a forum to be guilty? If there
is a law like that, I agree that the *law* should be revised and it's up
to legislative house to do this job. But, secessionism is definitely guilty
by any law that I have seen so far. I don't know anything about any Taiwanese
court ruling saying this forum is guilty. Could you enlighten me on this.
My court is not CNP court. I am not a CNP member. I am not affiliated
with any Taiwanese factions. I have no sub-party (don't know what this word
means). :-))))))
I don't understand your drivel.
>
>Only the poor brain-washed KMTers like you would ask what's wrong with Hau3-
As said before, I am not a CNPer. How many times should I say this to you?
Are you obsessed with anyone who speaks with different opinions as a CNPer?
Hey, there are all kinds of people in the world, don't live in the close-
minded ivory tower set up by TI/DPP mobs. It is doing no good to you.
>Yu2-Lu4? Please read that book first, before you make any comments.
>
That is why I asked for your comments. I didn't read that book.
I did not comment on that book, since I did not read that book. I don't
know who pubished that book. There is no such book in US. And,
if you have better ideas about that book, just spew it out. I am
waiting for you to enlighten me.
>
>
>Only the people who serveed for KMT as an employer are really concenred
>about KMT's opinions.
To your supprise, boo, there are a lot of non-CNPers, DPPers, CCPers,
neutralists, TIers, .... who care about the CNP opinions.
And, even scewed-up buffoons care about that.
Take you as an example, if you don't care, why did you bring this up and
get upset about this? :-))))))
Edwin Tang
>From: ty...@leety.austin.ibm.com (Ty Lee)
>Subject: Re: double deficits
>In article <tang.19.0@econbus2> tang@econbus2 (Edwin Tang) writes:
>>
>>Please read the "News from Taiwan" that I posted. The court rules New KMT
>>is guilty. That is your KMT court against your KMT sub-party, what else can
>>I say?
>>
>
>I beg your pardon. What is this? And, did I miss anything from your *news*?
>By what Taiwanese law could you allege a forum to be guilty? If there
>is a law like that, I agree that the *law* should be revised and it's up
>to legislative house to do this job. But, secessionism is definitely guilty
>by any law that I have seen so far. I don't know anything about any Taiwanese
>court ruling saying this forum is guilty. Could you enlighten me on this.
>
>My court is not CNP court. I am not a CNP member. I am not affiliated
>with any Taiwanese factions. I have no sub-party (don't know what this word
>means). :-))))))
>
>I don't understand your drivel.
If you don't know anything about Taiwan's court system, if you don't know
anything about how KMT's military judges turn overnight into civilian judges,
If you don't know anything about mis-judged cases in Taiwan, and if you don't
understand why KMT court want to punish its own party members is such a big
news, I don't know why you are here (SCT)?
>
>>
>>Only the poor brain-washed KMTers like you would ask what's wrong with Hau3-
>
>As said before, I am not a CNPer. How many times should I say this to you?
>Are you obsessed with anyone who speaks with different opinions as a CNPer?
>Hey, there are all kinds of people in the world, don't live in the close-
>minded ivory tower set up by TI/DPP mobs. It is doing no good to you.
>
If you are such a clean, pure, unbias, and neutral person about Taiwan's
issues, then I apologize. By the way, please read another news titled "Rape
Scandal from Chiang's family," I like to hear your neutral comments.
>
>>Yu2-Lu4? Please read that book first, before you make any comments.
>>
>
>That is why I asked for your comments. I didn't read that book.
>I did not comment on that book, since I did not read that book. I don't
>know who pubished that book. There is no such book in US. And,
if you have better ideas about that book, just spew it out. I am
>waiting for you to enlighten me.
If you are searching the book from your "one-side-story" friends, you
probably can't find it in the US.
>
>>
>>
>>Only the people who serveed for KMT as an employer are really concenred
>>about KMT's opinions.
>
>To your supprise, boo, there are a lot of non-CNPers, DPPers, CCPers,
>neutralists, TIers, .... who care about the CNP opinions.
>
>And, even scewed-up buffoons care about that.
>
>Take you as an example, if you don't care, why did you bring this up and
>get upset about this? :-))))))
May be you should change yourself claim as "universal opinions center" or
something to keep yourself clean.
> =============================================================================
> = The opinions are my own. I don't know my employer's opinions. Ty Lee =
> =============================================================================
Edwin Tang
Ty Lee
>>From: ty...@leety.austin.ibm.com (Ty Lee)
>>
>>is a law like that, I agree that the *law* should be revised and it's up
>>to legislative house to do this job. But, secessionism is definitely guilty
>>by any law that I have seen so far. I don't know anything about any Taiwanese
>>court ruling saying this forum is guilty. Could you enlighten me on this.
>>
>>My court is not CNP court. I am not a CNP member. I am not affiliated
>>with any Taiwanese factions. I have no sub-party (don't know what this word
>>means). :-))))))
>
>anything about how KMT's military judges turn overnight into civilian judges,
>If you don't know anything about mis-judged cases in Taiwan, and if you don't
>understand why KMT court want to punish its own party members is such a big
>news, I don't know why you are here (SCT)?
>
I don't think I said I don't know anything about the so-called turning scenario
on my previous post. Read carefully above. Don't put words on my mouth.
Reading your article is just like skipping in the logic.
And, who are you to tell me not to be in here?
Again, for newbies, this is an unmoderated forum. It does not preclude anybody
from contributing opinions, drivels, or even graffiti to this forum.
I'd like to hear from you by what authority you possess that you want me to
stay out of the newsgroup? Is that a *democratic* mentality?
And, even so, I just begged your infinite wisdom to enlighten me on something
I might not understand.
>
>If you are such a clean, pure, unbias, and neutral person about Taiwan's
>issues, then I apologize.
You don't need to apologize. And, I don't want to accept it. :-))))
From your stand point of view, I might be biased, unclean, impure, but
I still have the right to join the discussion.
That is very ironic that those DPP/TI followers did many counter-democratic
acts, while asking others to be democratic. Those people need to learn
what the true democratic behaviors are first.
> By the way, please read another news titled "Rape
>Scandal from Chiang's family," I like to hear your neutral comments.
>
Any legal disputes (or criminal offenses, misdemeanors ...)
have to be resolved in the court, until then, any parties involved (legal term)
should not be dubbed *guilty*. And, as I lived in a democratic society here
in US, I, who am used to the democratic system, can't give any comment of the
legal disputes happened around the world, including Taiwan.
All I can say is somebody did something wrong, let the judge judge who
was to blame, not you, and not me. Yes, if that incidence were true,
I would whole-heartedly agree that the crimninal(s) be broght to justice.
>
>If you are searching the book from your "one-side-story" friends, you
>probably can't find it in the US.
>
I don't have either *one-side-story friends* or double-sided or single-sided or
sideways or upside-down or trapezoidal freinds as you said.
Hey, would you post the stories in exerpts from the mystical book;
but not verbatim, because by doing so, you'll infringe the copyright of
the author (just like the legendary Mr. TIM did in the past).
>
>May be you should change yourself claim as "universal opinions center" or
>
No, I don't subscribe the concept of "universal opinions center".
No way, Jose. I endorse the free discussion of things.
I don't believe anything universal, especially generalization.
>
>something to keep yourself clean.
Where is my zest to keep me zestfully clean? :-))))
>Edwin Tang
--
| "My opinions." -- Ty Lee
Have a Good One! | This is a disclaimer. If you don't understand the meaning
| of the word, disclaimer, please consult your dictionary.
Tien-Pao Shih
Mr. Lee:
I think you can accept Tang's apology without any shy.
By reading your mails, I think you are much less biased than Tang.
BTW, for the "Rape scandal" mail Tang wrote, its content is also different
from what china post and the other mail said in the person who said a very
very unforgivable word in that event. So, I'll suggest you not to response
that mail when you read it until more and more truths are posted in order
not to get such rude responses.
Tien-Pao Shih
Edwin Tang
>From: ty...@leety.austin.ibm.com (Ty Lee)
>Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1993 22:31:38 GMT
Let me repeat my comment: If you don't have enough information to make
your judgement, don't make it!
I said you can ramble around as you wish. No one can ask you or
force you to leave, period.
>>If you are such a clean, pure, unbias, and neutral person about Taiwan's
>>issues, then I apologize.
>You don't need to apologize. And, I don't want to accept it. :-))))
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I suppose my apology is part of the "information" I tried to communicate
with you. With such bad manner, I don't know how you can judge other
people have counter-democratic acts.
>From your stand point of view, I might be biased, unclean, impure, but
>I still have the right to join the discussion.
>
>That is very ironic that those DPP/TI followers did many counter-democratic
>acts, while asking others to be democratic. Those people need to learn
>what the true democratic behaviors are first.
>> By the way, please read another news titled "Rape
>>Scandal from Chiang's family," I like to hear your neutral comments.
>>
>
>Any legal disputes (or criminal offenses, misdemeanors ...)
>have to be resolved in the court, until then, any parties involved (legal term)
>should not be dubbed *guilty*. And, as I lived in a democratic society here
>in US, I, who am used to the democratic system, can't give any comment of the
>legal disputes happened around the world, including Taiwan.
>
>All I can say is somebody did something wrong, let the judge judge who
>was to blame, not you, and not me. Yes, if that incidence were true,
>I would whole-heartedly agree that the crimninal(s) be broght to justice.
Thank you. At least we have something to agree upon. I feel like I am
talking to a real human being now.
>
>>
>>If you are searching the book from your "one-side-story" friends, you
>>probably can't find it in the US.
>>
>
>I don't have either *one-side-story friends* or double-sided or single-sided or
>sideways or upside-down or trapezoidal freinds as you said.
>
>Hey, would you post the stories in exerpts from the mystical book;
>but not verbatim, because by doing so, you'll infringe the copyright of
>the author (just like the legendary Mr. TIM did in the past).
For the book Hau3-Yu3-Lu4, you don't need to concern about copyright. All
the stupid statements by Mr. Hau in that book are common jokes in Taiwan
when he was in his position. Again, if you have one-side information, you
probably don't know what I am talking about. And once again, I wonder,
without knowing all these common jokes, why you are here in discussing TI
issues?
Edwin Tang
Ty Lee
>
>Mr. Lee:
>
> I think you can accept Tang's apology without any shy.
> By reading your mails, I think you are much less biased than Tang.
>
As I said in other post, I did not ask for it. All I need is just a little
discussion on thing which was viewed differently by Mr. E. Tang.
Well, I might accept it and keep my nouth shut.
> BTW, for the "Rape scandal" mail Tang wrote, its content is also different
> from what china post and the other mail said in the person who said a very
> very unforgivable word in that event. So, I'll suggest you not to response
> that mail when you read it until more and more truths are posted in order
> not to get such rude responses.
>
All I care is the right line of thoughts toward the healthy discussion
on issues. I thank you for your suggestion, though.
>Tien-Pao Shih
>
>
>|>
>|>
>|> >
>|> >>Yu2-Lu4? Please read that book first, before you make any comments.
>|> >>
>|> >
>|> >That is why I asked for your comments. I didn't read that book.
>|> >I did not comment on that book, since I did not read that book. I don't
>|> >know who pubished that book. There is no such book in US. And,
>|> if you have better ideas about that book, just spew it out. I am
>|> >waiting for you to enlighten me.
>|>
>|>
>|> If you are searching the book from your "one-side-story" friends, you
>|> probably can't find it in the US.
>|>
>|>
>|>
>|> >
>|> >>
>|> >>
>|> >>Only the people who serveed for KMT as an employer are really concenred
>|> >>about KMT's opinions.
>|> >
>|> >To your supprise, boo, there are a lot of non-CNPers, DPPers, CCPers,
>|> >neutralists, TIers, .... who care about the CNP opinions.
>|> >
>|> >And, even scewed-up buffoons care about that.
>|> >
>|> >Take you as an example, if you don't care, why did you bring this up and
>|> >get upset about this? :-))))))
>|>
>|>
>|>
>|> May be you should change yourself claim as "universal opinions center" or
>|> something to keep yourself clean.
>|>
>|>
>|> > =============================================================================
>|> > = The opinions are my own. I don't know my employer's opinions. Ty Lee =
>|> > =============================================================================
>|>
>|>
>|> Edwin Tang
Edwin Tang
>Subject: Re: double deficits
>Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1993 23:33:30 GMT
First, a person read a KMT controlled newpaper and use such information to
protect KMT's propaganda and to define others are bias. Very good logics.
Second, you don't have to wait for your Bible newpaper, i.e., Central Daily
News or World Daily News, to arrive and then come back to argue with me that
Fung XX (CKS's relative) is not guilty or what so ever. The ROC's FBI
already made apology to the public on TV.
By the way, Fung XX 's rape case reminds me another murder case, also by CKS'
s family member. This was Chiang Wei3-Kuo2's servant who eyewittnessed
Chiang's illegal weapons, and her dead body was found in Chinag's house.
Can you KMTers tell me what happen after that? I am waiting for you unbias
answer! Thank you.
Edwin Tang
Edwin Tang
Tien-Pao Shih
>protect KMT's propaganda and to define others are bias. Very good logics.
The reasoning that I think you are almost extremely bias is mainly from your mails.
In all mails you've sent out for the issue "double deficits", haven't you
found that you despised everything, every person related to KMT. With
such a hostility emotion in your mind, it is really hard to make a
healthy discussion with you.
>
>Second, you don't have to wait for your Bible newpaper, i.e., Central Daily
>News or World Daily News, to arrive and then come back to argue with me that
>Fung XX (CKS's relative) is not guilty or what so ever. The ROC's FBI
>already made apology to the public on TV.
Fortunately, I also watched the TV News. Yes, he did present his apology
to (1) the secretary, (2) all the people who take care of this event. But
for what? Not for Fung's guilty, but for his agents and his duty. He felt
sorry because his agents involving in this case and he and his agents are
supposed to protect all common people. The translation is probably not good,
but I think I did not add any good word in it.
Since this was public in TV, if you post what he said without bias
then this should not be arguable. Do you agree with me?
>
>By the way, Fung XX 's rape case reminds me another murder case, also by CKS'
>s family member. This was Chiang Wei3-Kuo2's servant who eyewittnessed
>Chiang's illegal weapons, and her dead body was found in Chinag's house.
>Can you KMTers tell me what happen after that? I am waiting for you unbias
>answer! Thank you.
I am not so clear about the result about this. So I am probably not the
right person to answer it to you.
>
>
>Edwin Tang
>
>
>Edwin Tang
>
Tien-Pao Shih