when the missionaries come to you with "good news", give them some good news yourself
harmony
changed, and now believe:
-bible does not contain absolute moral truth
- jesus did not live sinless life
- salvation can be, and should be, earned. ie it is not, never was, personal
property of jesus to give it away to his followers. (many experts believe
that salvation may not even be possible in the violently propagated
kirastanism over the centuries).
- kirastanis need to shed missionarism.
- bible is made up stuff.
http://www.socalcsb.org/The%20Decline%20of%20Christian%20Culture%20in%20America.pdf
Wanderer
> 96 pct of kirastanis in the west are now totally disillusioned. they have
> changed, and now believe:
99.99% of Hindus in India are now totally disillusioned. They now know
the truth, that they are being manipulated by the saffronistas who live
primarily in the west. Said saffronistas are sloths unaccustomed to not
being automatically worshiped because of their "high status", and are
using the money generously provided by the "kirastani west" to foment
discord and violence in their homeland. Said saffronistas are traitors
both to India and their host countries, and should be tried by military
tribunal.
harmony
i thought this was a startling "revelation" even to kirastanis themselves
who are not likely to say so openly.
"harmony" <a...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:489b6b8e$0$4045$bbae...@news.suddenlink.net...
Wanderer
> hey, did all hindus read this post? just want to be sure.
> i thought this was a startling "revelation" even to kirastanis themselves
> who are not likely to say so openly.
>
>
> "harmony" <a...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:489b6b8e$0$4045$bbae...@news.suddenlink.net...
>> 96 pct of kirastanis in the west are now totally disillusioned. they have
>> changed, and now believe:
Why don't you ask 96% of your Christian townsfolk if they are
"disillusioned" with Christianity, you stupid f**kwit? If that were the
truth, why are you whiny saffron bitches crying about the "kirastani
west"? Ask white "kirastanis" if they want to convert to a religion
where their white skin automatically makes them top dog like Frawley,
Gautier and Elst, and black "kirastanis" if they want to be
automatically designated sudras. You are one stupid m-f!
kuri...@gmail.com
> 96 pct of kirastanis in the west are now totally disillusioned. they have
> changed, and now believe:
Are you the conscious keeper of the people of the west? How do you
know whether they are disillusioned or not?
>
> -bible does not contain absolute moral truth
What is absolute moral truth?
> - jesus did not live sinless life
What is your proof?
> - salvation can be, and should be, earned.
Have you earned your salvation? Does the way you live will ever lead
you to salvation ?
>ie it is not, never was, personal
> property of jesus to give it away to his followers. (many experts believe
> that salvation may not even be possible in the violently propagated
> kirastanism over the centuries).
Are these experts hiding somewhare? Who are they?
> - kirastanis need to shed missionarism.
That is your opinion. What are you so afraid of?
> - bible is made up stuff.
So are Gita and Vedas. Could you prove that they are not.
>
> http://www.socalcsb.org/The%20Decline%20of%20Christian%20Culture%20in...
kuri...@gmail.com
>
> - Show quoted text -
tsk, tsk! Did Wanderer touch a raw nerve? Why do the saffronites love
to go the west and live among the much despised "kirastanis".?
mud...@sympatico.ca
> On Aug 14, 12:31 pm, "harmony" <a...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > hey, did all hindus read this post? just want to be sure.
> > i thought this was a startling "revelation" even to kirastanis themselves
> > who are not likely to say so openly.
>
> > "harmony" <a...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:489b6b8e$0$4045$bbae...@news.suddenlink.net...
>
> > > 96 pct of kirastanis in the west are now totally disillusioned. they have
> > > changed, and now believe:
>
> > > -bible does not contain absolute moral truth
> > > - jesus did not live sinless life
> > > - salvation can be, and should be, earned. ie it is not, never was,
> > > personal property of jesus to give it away to his followers. (many experts
> > > believe that salvation may not even be possible in the violently
> > > propagated kirastanism over the centuries).
> > > - kirastanis need to shed missionarism.
> > > - bible is made up stuff.
>
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> tsk, tsk! Did Wanderer touch a raw nerve? Why do the saffronites love
>
> - Show quoted text -
You are still want to live among the safforronites. Why? Why cannot
you ask your Kristianis to go and live with the Western Kristianis?
kuri...@gmail.com
> On Aug 14, 9:43 pm, kurian...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Aug 14, 12:31 pm, "harmony" <a...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > hey, did all hindus read this post? just want to be sure.
> > > i thought this was a startling "revelation" even to kirastanis themselves
> > > who are not likely to say so openly.
>
> > > "harmony" <a...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> > >news:489b6b8e$0$4045$bbae...@news.suddenlink.net...
>
> > > > 96 pct of kirastanis in the west are now totally disillusioned. they have
> > > > changed, and now believe:
>
> > > > -bible does not contain absolute moral truth
> > > > - jesus did not live sinless life
> > > > - salvation can be, and should be, earned. ie it is not, never was,
> > > > personal property of jesus to give it away to his followers. (many experts
> > > > believe that salvation may not even be possible in the violently
> > > > propagated kirastanism over the centuries).
> > > > - kirastanis need to shed missionarism.
> > > > - bible is made up stuff.
>
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > tsk, tsk! Did Wanderer touch a raw nerve? Why do the saffronites love
> > to go the west and live among the much despised "kirastanis".?- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> You are still want to live among the safforronites. Why? Why cannot
>
> - Show quoted text -
So it is a tit for a tat, eh? You are avenging the "kristanis" who
live among the "saffronites" by going to the west and living among
those western much despised "kristianis". Why the hypocrisy? Why
don't you tell the truth to yourself? Tell clearly who can't put up
with whom!
Wanderer
Saffronites are a tiny minority, who propagate hatred of Christians and
Muslims. Besides, Indian Christians are Indians, first and foremost.
They did not move to India from "kirastan". You, on the other hand,
_chose_ to move to a country where the majority(at least 7 in 10) are
people you profess to hate.
tbj....@yahoo.com
> On Aug 14, 12:31 pm, "harmony" <a...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > hey, did all hindus read this post? just want to be sure.
> > i thought this was a startling "revelation" even to kirastanis themselves
> > who are not likely to say so openly.
>
> > "harmony" <a...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:489b6b8e$0$4045$bbae...@news.suddenlink.net...
>
> > > 96 pct of kirastanis in the west are now totally disillusioned. they have
> > > changed, and now believe:
>
> > > -bible does not contain absolute moral truth
> > > - jesus did not live sinless life
> > > - salvation can be, and should be, earned. ie it is not, never was,
> > > personal property of jesus to give it away to his followers. (many experts
> > > believe that salvation may not even be possible in the violently
> > > propagated kirastanism over the centuries).
> > > - kirastanis need to shed missionarism.
> > > - bible is made up stuff.
>
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> tsk, tsk! Did Wanderer touch a raw nerve? Why do the saffronites love
> to go the west and live among the much despised "kirastanis".?
USA is pagan Red Indian land. Kirastanis just occupied it with
violence.
Besides, why do pseudo-seculars like to live in Hindu lands and still
berate Hinduism?
tbj....@yahoo.com
> karthikass <mud...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> > On Aug 14, 9:43 pm, kurian...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> On Aug 14, 12:31 pm, "harmony" <a...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>> hey, did all hindus read this post? just want to be sure.
> >>> i thought this was a startling "revelation" even to kirastanis themselves
> >>> who are not likely to say so openly.
> >>> "harmony" <a...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >>>news:489b6b8e$0$4045$bbae...@news.suddenlink.net...
> >>>> 96 pct of kirastanis in the west are now totally disillusioned. they have
> >>>> changed, and now believe:
> >>>> -bible does not contain absolute moral truth
> >>>> - jesus did not live sinless life
> >>>> - salvation can be, and should be, earned. ie it is not, never was,
> >>>> personal property of jesus to give it away to his followers. (many experts
> >>>> believe that salvation may not even be possible in the violently
> >>>> propagated kirastanism over the centuries).
> >>>> - kirastanis need to shed missionarism.
> >>>> - bible is made up stuff.
> >>> - Show quoted text -
> >> tsk, tsk! Did Wanderer touch a raw nerve? Why do the saffronites love
> >> to go the west and live among the much despised "kirastanis".?- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> > You are still want to live among the safforronites. Why? Why cannot
> > you ask your Kristianis to go and live with the Western Kristianis?
>
> Saffronites are a tiny minority, who propagate hatred of Christians and
> Muslims. Besides, Indian Christians are Indians, first and foremost.
> They did not move to India from "kirastan". You, on the other hand,
> _chose_ to move to a country where the majority(at least 7 in 10) are
> people you profess to hate.
Do you lie deliberately or is it some form of dyslexia which prevents
you from understanding others?
Those who oppose missionaries to prevent the spread of the evils of
monotheist faiths are heroes, not hateful people as you are trying to
label them.
HOW is it that while the American politicians and presidents can
pander to the most bigoted of the Christian supremacists, but you seem
to find it evil of Hindus to assert their equality in their own native
lands?
tbj....@yahoo.com
> On Aug 14, 7:48 pm, mud...@sympatico.ca wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Aug 14, 9:43 pm, kurian...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > > On Aug 14, 12:31 pm, "harmony" <a...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > hey, did all hindus read this post? just want to be sure.
> > > > i thought this was a startling "revelation" even to kirastanis themselves
> > > > who are not likely to say so openly.
>
> > > > "harmony" <a...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> > > >news:489b6b8e$0$4045$bbae...@news.suddenlink.net...
>
> > > > > 96 pct of kirastanis in the west are now totally disillusioned. they have
> > > > > changed, and now believe:
>
> > > > > -bible does not contain absolute moral truth
> > > > > - jesus did not live sinless life
> > > > > - salvation can be, and should be, earned. ie it is not, never was,
> > > > > personal property of jesus to give it away to his followers. (many experts
> > > > > believe that salvation may not even be possible in the violently
> > > > > propagated kirastanism over the centuries).
> > > > > - kirastanis need to shed missionarism.
> > > > > - bible is made up stuff.
>
>
> > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > tsk, tsk! Did Wanderer touch a raw nerve? Why do the saffronites love
> > > to go the west and live among the much despised "kirastanis".?- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > You are still want to live among the safforronites. Why? Why cannot
> > you ask your Kristianis to go and live with the Western Kristianis?- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> So it is a tit for a tat, eh? You are avenging the "kristanis" who
> live among the "saffronites" by going to the west and living among
> those western much despised "kristianis". Why the hypocrisy? Why
> don't you tell the truth to yourself? Tell clearly who can't put up
> with whom!
Are you suggesting that while 'kirastanis' can invade India and rule
it for centuries, or they can invade the weak nations of the Americas
and take over, but the evil thing to do is for the former colonial
subjects to point out the evil in Christianity?
Isn't your perversity a clear example of the dementia that
Christianity can produce?
harmony
<tbj....@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:26b308c3-d76c-4b0f...@r15g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
good post. well, don't forget 4pct of them still hold biblical worldview.
you may be talking to one or more of those 4pct on sci.
Wanderer
So do you hold the vedic worldview that the earth is held up by an
elephant standing on the back of a turtle floating in space? Do you
believe, as the Rgveda intones, that all living creatures were created
from the clarified butter that resulted from the sacrifice of the
thousand-headed Purusha? That a giant boar brought forth the earth? I am
constantly amazed at the temerity you saffron shitheads have to
criticize, on these newsgroups, creationist stories of _other_ religions
and claim to have the absolute goods on how the world was created.
All creation stories are b.s., including Genesis and Rgveda. If you have
proof to the contrary, I'm sure you would bring it forth. You sure have
the time to do the research, with your wife bringing home the bacon, you
shameless wimp. In the meanwhile, stfu with your "kirastani" bullcrap,
you festering piece of hate-mongering shit.
kuri...@gmail.com
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Aug 14, 12:31 pm, "harmony" <a...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > hey, did all hindus read this post? just want to be sure.
> > > i thought this was a startling "revelation" even to kirastanis themselves
> > > who are not likely to say so openly.
>
> > > "harmony" <a...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> > >news:489b6b8e$0$4045$bbae...@news.suddenlink.net...
>
> > > > 96 pct of kirastanis in the west are now totally disillusioned. they have
> > > > changed, and now believe:
>
> > > > -bible does not contain absolute moral truth
> > > > - jesus did not live sinless life
> > > > - salvation can be, and should be, earned. ie it is not, never was,
> > > > personal property of jesus to give it away to his followers. (many experts
> > > > believe that salvation may not even be possible in the violently
> > > > propagated kirastanism over the centuries).
> > > > - kirastanis need to shed missionarism.
> > > > - bible is made up stuff.
>
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > tsk, tsk! Did Wanderer touch a raw nerve? Why do the saffronites love
> > to go the west and live among the much despised "kirastanis".?- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> You are still want to live among the safforronites. Why? Why cannot
Is that an answer to the question I asked? Are the Kristianis of
India migrants from somewhere else? Who are showing very keen interest
and frothing at their mouth to get into those countries where the
Kristianis outnumber others. If you despise something you try to
avoid them and will not try to benefit from their “ill-gotten wealth
and affluence”. But you can’t overcome the temptation, can you?
kuri...@gmail.com
> On Aug 15, 8:23 am, kurian...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Aug 14, 7:48 pm, mud...@sympatico.ca wrote:
>
> > > On Aug 14, 9:43 pm, kurian...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > > > On Aug 14, 12:31 pm, "harmony" <a...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > hey, did all hindus read this post? just want to be sure.
> > > > > i thought this was a startling "revelation" even to kirastanis themselves
> > > > > who are not likely to say so openly.
>
> > > > > "harmony" <a...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> > > > >news:489b6b8e$0$4045$bbae...@news.suddenlink.net...
>
> > > > > > 96 pct of kirastanis in the west are now totally disillusioned. they have
> > > > > > changed, and now believe:
>
> > > > > > -bible does not contain absolute moral truth
> > > > > > - jesus did not live sinless life
> > > > > > - salvation can be, and should be, earned. ie it is not, never was,
> > > > > > personal property of jesus to give it away to his followers. (many experts
> > > > > > believe that salvation may not even be possible in the violently
> > > > > > propagated kirastanism over the centuries).
> > > > > > - kirastanis need to shed missionarism.
> > > > > > - bible is made up stuff.
>
>
> > > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > > tsk, tsk! Did Wanderer touch a raw nerve? Why do the saffronites love
> > > > to go the west and live among the much despised "kirastanis".?- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > You are still want to live among the safforronites. Why? Why cannot
> > > you ask your Kristianis to go and live with the Western Kristianis?- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > So it is a tit for a tat, eh? You are avenging the "kristanis" who
> > live among the "saffronites" by going to the west and living among
> > those western much despised "kristianis". Why the hypocrisy? Why
> > don't you tell the truth to yourself? Tell clearly who can't put up
> > with whom!
>
> Are you suggesting that while 'kirastanis' can invade India and rule
> it for centuries, or they can invade the weak nations of the Americas
> and take over, but the evil thing to do is for the former colonial
> subjects to point out the evil in Christianity?
You have every right to point out the evils of Christianity or any
other religion.
If I want to say something I say it directly and I don’t project my
thoughts on others and make the readers think that the source of
information is not me. I don’t have to suggest, allude or hide behind
cryptic remarks. Your inability to separate events of history, such
as wars, occupation, subjugation, colonialism etc from the prevalent
faith and beliefs of the people shows a programmed bias. Colonialism
is not an outcome of Christian teachings, beliefs or its practice.
But that line of argument has been the mainstay for many on this
newsgroup. You and many others who hold similar views assume that the
root cause of all wrongs done by the west is their religion, namely
Christianity. However you are not prepared to concede that their
faiths and beliefs have anything to do with many good things they have
done.
When you deal with this topic why do you limit the discussion to the
so-called “wrong doings by Christians”? Wars, subjugation,
occupation, enslavement have been part of human history from time
immemorial. While the victors justified their actions, the vanquished
cried out against the injustice, cruelty, lack of freedom etc. I
recommend the following book, if you have not already read it, to get
a comprehensive view of the spreading of humanity across the globe,
development of languages, cultures, religions, and how we humans
evolved from the prehistoric times to what we are today. The book is
“Guns, Germs and Steel” by Jared Diamond.
> Isn't your perversity a clear example of the dementia that
> Christianity can produce?- Hide quoted text -
Christianity-influenced (induced) “perversity” produced many good
things of which others like you are partakers. Who is not having an
open mind, you or me?
kuri...@gmail.com
> On Aug 15, 6:43 am, kurian...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Aug 14, 12:31 pm, "harmony" <a...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > hey, did all hindus read this post? just want to be sure.
> > > i thought this was a startling "revelation" even to kirastanis themselves
> > > who are not likely to say so openly.
>
> > > "harmony" <a...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> > >news:489b6b8e$0$4045$bbae...@news.suddenlink.net...
>
> > > > 96 pct of kirastanis in the west are now totally disillusioned. they have
> > > > changed, and now believe:
>
> > > > -bible does not contain absolute moral truth
> > > > - jesus did not live sinless life
> > > > - salvation can be, and should be, earned. ie it is not, never was,
> > > > personal property of jesus to give it away to his followers. (many experts
> > > > believe that salvation may not even be possible in the violently
> > > > propagated kirastanism over the centuries).
> > > > - kirastanis need to shed missionarism.
> > > > - bible is made up stuff.
>
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > tsk, tsk! Did Wanderer touch a raw nerve? Why do the saffronites love
> > to go the west and live among the much despised "kirastanis".?
>
> USA is pagan Red Indian land. Kirastanis just occupied it with
> violence.
Then you must advocate giving back the land to the “Red Indians” and
also must resolve not live among these “Kirastanis” and not to avail
any of the benefits directly or indirectly from the occupation and
subsequent development made by the “Kristanis”
> Besides, why do pseudo-seculars like to live in Hindu lands and still
> berate Hinduism?- Hide quoted text -
Who are these pseudo-seculars? And why do they preferentially berate
Hinduism and not Islam or Christianity?
tbj....@yahoo.com
> On Aug 15, 12:43 am, "tbj.b...@yahoo.com" <tbj.b...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Aug 15, 6:43 am, kurian...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > > On Aug 14, 12:31 pm, "harmony" <a...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > hey, did all hindus read this post? just want to be sure.
> > > > i thought this was a startling "revelation" even to kirastanis themselves
> > > > who are not likely to say so openly.
>
> > > > "harmony" <a...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> > > >news:489b6b8e$0$4045$bbae...@news.suddenlink.net...
>
> > > > > 96 pct of kirastanis in the west are now totally disillusioned. they have
> > > > > changed, and now believe:
>
> > > > > -bible does not contain absolute moral truth
> > > > > - jesus did not live sinless life
> > > > > - salvation can be, and should be, earned. ie it is not, never was,
> > > > > personal property of jesus to give it away to his followers. (many experts
> > > > > believe that salvation may not even be possible in the violently
> > > > > propagated kirastanism over the centuries).
> > > > > - kirastanis need to shed missionarism.
> > > > > - bible is made up stuff.
>
>
> > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > tsk, tsk! Did Wanderer touch a raw nerve? Why do the saffronites love
> > > to go the west and live among the much despised "kirastanis".?
>
> > USA is pagan Red Indian land. Kirastanis just occupied it with
> > violence.
>
> Then you must advocate giving back the land to the “Red Indians” and
> also must resolve not live among these “Kirastanis” and not to avail
> any of the benefits directly or indirectly from the occupation and
> subsequent development made by the “Kristanis”
Those are YOUR arguments, not mine. YOU made the argument that
somebody should not point out the evil in Christianity if they live in
a predominantly Christian environment which demonizes anything non-
Christian. Why do Christians avail of the benefits that come from
genocides of natives? You want immunity from criticism for Christians
while you want unrestricted freedom for Christians to demonize all
others. How original.
> > Besides, why do pseudo-seculars like to live in Hindu lands and still
> > berate Hinduism?- Hide quoted text -
>
> Who are these pseudo-seculars? And why do they preferentially berate
> Hinduism and not Islam or Christianity?
All those who believe that Christianity is 'love', or that Islam is
'peace', are deluded and dangerous people. Such people, if they have
influence over non-Kirastani or non-Islamic populations whose faiths
they deride as 'primitive or mere myth', are pseudo-seculars, since
they give unequal importance to different ideologies in political
matters, in money matters and even in social matters.
tbj....@yahoo.com
> On Aug 15, 12:57 am, "tbj.b...@yahoo.com" <tbj.b...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Aug 15, 8:23 am, kurian...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > > On Aug 14, 7:48 pm, mud...@sympatico.ca wrote:
>
> > > > On Aug 14, 9:43 pm, kurian...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > > > > On Aug 14, 12:31 pm, "harmony" <a...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > hey, did all hindus read this post? just want to be sure.
> > > > > > i thought this was a startling "revelation" even to kirastanis themselves
> > > > > > who are not likely to say so openly.
>
> > > > > > "harmony" <a...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> > > > > >news:489b6b8e$0$4045$bbae...@news.suddenlink.net...
>
> > > > > > > 96 pct of kirastanis in the west are now totally disillusioned. they have
> > > > > > > changed, and now believe:
>
> > > > > > > -bible does not contain absolute moral truth
> > > > > > > - jesus did not live sinless life
> > > > > > > - salvation can be, and should be, earned. ie it is not, never was,
> > > > > > > personal property of jesus to give it away to his followers. (many experts
> > > > > > > believe that salvation may not even be possible in the violently
> > > > > > > propagated kirastanism over the centuries).
> > > > > > > - kirastanis need to shed missionarism.
> > > > > > > - bible is made up stuff.
>
> > > > > > >http://www.socalcsb.org/The%20Decline%20of%20Christian%20Culture%20in...
>
Colonialism was aided immensely by the missionaries who defended the
colonization process as 'God's work', just as they are doing nowadays
in India. Putting the Bible into printed text (with the arrival of
printing press) gave the kirastanis the delusion that somehow 'God's
word' had become permanent and anyone holding the printed word was
somehow 'an agent of good' even if they were aiding genocides. That
delusion is resurfacing in the form of evangelism today. The content
of the texts were never put under scrutiny, but printed books were a
novelty that awed the natives of many places. Colonialism used
Biblical justifications to defend the greed and racism of the
Europeans. Just as Islam did earlier using the Koran.
This is the evil you are defending in its assault on Hinduism:
http://freetruth.50webs.org/Index.htm
> But that line of argument has been the mainstay for many on this
> newsgroup. You and many others who hold similar views assume that the
> root cause of all wrongs done by the west is their religion, namely
> Christianity. However you are not prepared to concede that their
> faiths and beliefs have anything to do with many good things they have
> done.
Such as? Inquisitions, colonialism, genocides, racism and slavery
aside, what other 'good things' out of the west were products of
kirastanism?
> When you deal with this topic why do you limit the discussion to the
> so-called “wrong doings by Christians”? Wars, subjugation,
> occupation, enslavement have been part of human history from time
> immemorial. While the victors justified their actions, the vanquished
> cried out against the injustice, cruelty, lack of freedom etc. I
> recommend the following book, if you have not already read it, to get
> a comprehensive view of the spreading of humanity across the globe,
> development of languages, cultures, religions, and how we humans
> evolved from the prehistoric times to what we are today. The book is
> “Guns, Germs and Steel” by Jared Diamond.
Guns, Germs and Steel should be modified to: Guns, Germs and Steel in
the service of Race and Religion.
Jared Diamond talks of the 'how' of colonialism. The 'why' was
supplied by a religion which justified greed motivated by intolerance,
and fueled by racism - so much racism, in fact, that even Jesus is
shown as blue-eyed white rather than what an average carpenter in the
middle east would look like (if Jesus existed, that is).
> > Isn't your perversity a clear example of the dementia that
> > Christianity can produce?- Hide quoted text -
>
> Christianity-influenced (induced) “perversity” produced many good
> things of which others like you are partakers. Who is not having an
> open mind, you or me?
Christianity induced NOTHING productive. NOTHING at all.
Greco-Roman ideas were influence by their polytheism / paganism.
Italian Renaissance was anti-Christianity in its ambitions.
HOW can Kirastanism induce anything right when it believes that the
Earth is 6000 years old?
Remember Galileo?
Wanderer
> HOW can Kirastanism induce anything right when it believes that the
> Earth is 6000 years old?
Where in Christian scripture do you find such a belief?
tbj....@yahoo.com
Two claims from Bible:
1. Adam was the first man created on the 6th day by god.
2. Clearly spelled out line of the descendants of Adam and Eve.
Markku Grönroos
<tbj....@yahoo.com> kirjoitti
viestissä:b39918a1-704b-4fdd...@v39g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
Two claims from Bible:
__________________________________________________________________________________________________
The Bible is not stagnant in context but modifications take place time to
time.
Traditionally we are told about the Creation that:
On the seventh day the God rested and said "This is good". And that's it.
However, it isn't so anymore. In the 1982 football World Cup preliminaries
the Italians outscored the Brazilians by 3-2. One Paolo Rossi shot all the
scores for Italy. A next day title on La Gazzetta dello Sport read:
"On the seventh day the God rested".
"On the eight day the God created Paolo Rossi".
And how did the games end? Well, the Italians won the title.
karthika
> On Aug 14, 7:48 pm, mud...@sympatico.ca wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Aug 14, 9:43 pm, kurian...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > > On Aug 14, 12:31 pm, "harmony" <a...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > hey, did all hindus read this post? just want to be sure.
> > > > i thought this was a startling "revelation" even to kirastanis themselves
> > > > who are not likely to say so openly.
>
> > > > "harmony" <a...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> > > >news:489b6b8e$0$4045$bbae...@news.suddenlink.net...
>
> > > > > 96 pct of kirastanis in the west are now totally disillusioned. they have
> > > > > changed, and now believe:
>
> > > > > -bible does not contain absolute moral truth
> > > > > - jesus did not live sinless life
> > > > > - salvation can be, and should be, earned. ie it is not, never was,
> > > > > personal property of jesus to give it away to his followers. (many experts
> > > > > believe that salvation may not even be possible in the violently
> > > > > propagated kirastanism over the centuries).
> > > > > - kirastanis need to shed missionarism.
> > > > > - bible is made up stuff.
>
>
> > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > tsk, tsk! Did Wanderer touch a raw nerve? Why do the saffronites love
> > > to go the west and live among the much despised "kirastanis".?- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > You are still want to live among the safforronites. Why? Why cannot
> > you ask your Kristianis to go and live with the Western Kristianis?- Hide quoted text -
>
> Is that an answer to the question I asked? Are the Kristianis of
> India migrants from somewhere else? Who are showing very keen interest
> and frothing at their mouth to get into those countries where the
> Kristianis outnumber others. If you despise something you try to
> avoid them and will not try to benefit from their “ill-gotten wealth
> and affluence”. But you can’t overcome the temptation, can you?
You guys are opportunists and changed your names to work for invaders.
When the invaders leave, they did not take you with them. Now you guys
think that you are the agents of those foreigners.
Christians/Muslims now think that they are HIGHER than HINDUS. When
Hindus try to recover thier land and pride, you guys are shouting and
crying.
Try to find a better way to live with HINDUS who are the real Indians!
Wanderer
Can you tell us which "invaders" gave the name "Kurian"? Why would
someone change their name to "Kurian"?
> Christians/Muslims now think that they are HIGHER than HINDUS. When
> Hindus try to recover thier land and pride, you guys are shouting and
> crying.
>
> Try to find a better way to live with HINDUS who are the real Indians!
Try to find a better way to live with CHRISTIANS who are the real
Canadians! You are a paid asshole from the RSS and now you are on the
run! Dont fart you RSS ass! hahahahahahaha
Wanderer
That's not Christian scripture any more than it is Muslim scripture.
Do you know the stories of creation in Hinduism?
karthika
>
> - Show quoted text -
I have no problem in Canada and canadians encourage Hindus to parctice
their religion but you nasty Christians in India barking like nasty
dogs against Hindus.
You are a cooli boy of catholic Church. That is why you are not
opening your mouth about the Catholic INQUISITIONS in India.
I am not running away but you are crying like a sleezy dog and refuse
to talk on the Catholic Criminals who are still believe in murdering
others and the INQUISITIONS.
RSS dont have anything like your INQUISITIONS!
Wanderer
> On Aug 17, 3:05 pm, Wanderer <n...@there.yet> wrote:
>> karthikass <mud...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>
>>> Christians/Muslims now think that they are HIGHER than HINDUS. When
>>> Hindus try to recover thier land and pride, you guys are shouting and
>>> crying.
>>> Try to find a better way to live with HINDUS who are the real Indians!
>> Try to find a better way to live with CHRISTIANS who are the real
>> Canadians! You are a paid asshole from the RSS and now you are on the
>> run! Dont fart you RSS ass! hahahahahahaha- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> I have no problem in Canada and canadians encourage Hindus to parctice
> their religion but you nasty Christians in India barking like nasty
> dogs against Hindus.
You haven't had a problem in Canada because, like the coward that you
are, you hide behind a computer and spew hatred on Usenet. Obviously,
Canadians are not aware that you are doing this. They probably think you
are a shy old man who takes care of the house while his wife does
double-shifts at the Toronto General Hospital.
> You are a cooli boy of catholic Church. That is why you are not
> opening your mouth about the Catholic INQUISITIONS in India.
I've responded to your allegations about the inquisition in Goa, you
dirtbag scoundrel. Since you don't have the decency to admit that I've
reamed out your ass on your allegations on the inquisition, here is my
response once more:
You don't know the first thing regarding how the inquisition worked.
Your saffron shitheads re-write what actually took place.
"Based on the records that survive, H. P. Salomon and I. S. D. Sassoon
state that between the Inquisition's beginning in 1561 and its temporary
abolition in 1774, some 16, 202 persons were brought to trial by the
Inquisition. Of this number, it is known that 57 were sentenced to death
and executed in person; another 64 were burned in effigy."
So, available records show that over a period of 213 years, 57 people
were known to have been executed(averaging just over 1 every 4 years).
Most of them were Christian converts "suspected" of reverting to their
former religious habits. This is the big shit "massacre" in Goa that you
saffron shitheads keep talking about?
Do you seriously think that, if the Portuguese "summarily" executed
Hindus, there would have been such a huge number of Hindus still alive
when they left Goa? You are a f**king moron, and you prove it every time
you post.
And what do you have to say about the millions of Hindu girl babies
being killed every year by their Hindu parents? Not a f**king thing, I
gather. I mean, who gives a crap about Hindu girls, right, as long as
they die as Hindus? You saffron shitheads make me sick to my stomach!
> I am not running away but you are crying like a sleezy dog and refuse
> to talk on the Catholic Criminals who are still believe in murdering
> others and the INQUISITIONS.
>
> RSS dont have anything like your INQUISITIONS!
No, you RSS shitheads outdo the Goa inquisition by orders of magnitude.
You must certainly be proud of that.
tbj....@yahoo.com
> tbj.b...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > On Aug 17, 11:01 am, Wanderer <n...@there.yet> wrote:
> >> tbj.b...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >>> HOW can Kirastanism induce anything right when it believes that the
> >>> Earth is 6000 years old?
> >> Where in Christian scripture do you find such a belief?
>
> > Two claims from Bible:
>
> > 1. Adam was the first man created on the 6th day by god.
> > 2. Clearly spelled out line of the descendants of Adam and Eve.
>
> That's not Christian scripture any more than it is Muslim scripture.
What poppycock. Without this story, there is very little story left in
Christianity. And how does it matter to the issue if Islam also
believes in the same foolishness?
> Do you know the stories of creation in Hinduism?
tbj....@yahoo.com
Do you really believe that dishonest and incomplete quotes can mask
the reality?
Even the Wiki article you copied this material from, says that 'the
fate of many of the victims remains unknown'.
'Goa Inquisition was most merciless and cruel'
http://www.rediff.com/news/2005/sep/14inter1.htm
Now, don't go ahead and claim that Richard Zimler also has some agenda
of Hindutva supremacy.
Details of the Goa Inquisition
http://www.christianaggression.org/item_display.php?type=ARTICLES&id=1111142225
> Do you seriously think that, if the Portuguese "summarily" executed
> Hindus, there would have been such a huge number of Hindus still alive
> when they left Goa? You are a f**king moron, and you prove it every time
> you post.
http://www.rediff.com/news/2005/sep/14inter1.htm
"..historians consider the Goa Inquisition the most merciless and
cruel ever developed. It was a machinery of death. A large number of
Hindus were first converted and then persecuted from 1560 all the way
to 1812!
Over that period of 252 years, any man, woman, or child living in Goa
could be arrested and tortured for simply whispering a prayer or
keeping a small idol at home. Many Hindus -- and some former Jews, as
well -- languished in special Inquisitional prisons, some for four,
five, or six years at a time."
> And what do you have to say about the millions of Hindu girl babies
> being killed every year by their Hindu parents? Not a f**king thing, I
> gather. I mean, who gives a crap about Hindu girls, right, as long as
> they die as Hindus? You saffron shitheads make me sick to my stomach!
What makes you think that female foeticide is Hindu problem only? All
research says that it is spread among ALL communities and religions.
The BJP in fact hates female foeticide (
http://www.bio-medicine.org/medicine-news/BJP-Seeks-Tougher-Laws-Against-Pre-Natal-Sex-Tests-12161-1/
)
http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/11/24/opinion/edswami.php
"Assumed to be prevalent among Hindus, because of their custom
requiring male progeny to perform cremation rites, female foeticide is
in fact found today to be equally rampant among Sikhs, Muslims and
Christians."
The sex ratio among young children of Muslims is identical to that of
the Hindus.
> > I am not running away but you are crying like a sleezy dog and refuse
> > to talk on the Catholic Criminals who are still believe in murdering
> > others and the INQUISITIONS.
>
> > RSS dont have anything like your INQUISITIONS!
>
> No, you RSS shitheads outdo the Goa inquisition by orders of magnitude.
> You must certainly be proud of that.
A half-wit ignorant fool like yourself who yells falsehoods is merely
being an irritating jackass.
mud...@sympatico.ca
>
> - Show quoted text -
You are a liar as your Nazi POPE.
Criminals never have records of their victims. As far as the records
in Sri Lanka, 2655 Hindus and the Tamil Royal Family were killed at
Catholic Inquisition in GOA.
Thosands of Konkani Brahmans and Jews in Kerala were killed at the
inquisition.
So, your fartings are real lies.
Can you tell how many nasty Christians killed by RSS?
Markku Grönroos
"karthika" <mud...@sympatico.ca> kirjoitti
viestissä:a83cae1a-7cba-4aff...@k37g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>You are a cooli boy of catholic Church. That is why you are not
>opening your mouth about the Catholic INQUISITIONS in India.
>
You are very upset on the inquisition. The chaps of Monty Python have a lot
more relaxed and gayish attitude on mutilation, eye puncture, acid
treatments and so on. You should do so as well. After all you are gay. What
do you homosexual hide in Kannada for. Why don't you live on ceylon? Yes,
why not? Why do you refuse to tell? You are very fond of small boys aren't
you? You kind of get excited and cannot control yourself anymore. It is just
so stimulating touching a young, naked boy.
Wanderer
How could the Tamil Royal Family have been killed in Goa, you
fart-huffing moron? And what records are kept in Sri Lanka for events
that took place in Portuguese Goa? I gave you the numbers for the people
confirmed to have been executed(57), but like the true mindless moron
that you are, you continue to prate on about "thousands of Konkani
Brahmins".
> So, your fartings are real lies.
>
> Can you tell how many nasty Christians killed by RSS?
Why don't you ask your sarsangchalak Modi to show you his diary?
Dont bark like a silly dog liar!
You are a liar and continue the same.
You are an asshole and barked all these days against Christians only and
supported your Nasty VHP. Now you again cry against Christians and ask
something else!
You contribute money to lift the ass of Child molesting VHP.* You cry
that Christians discriminate you. I told you many ways of VHP/RSS
discrimination but you never answer.
You have no moral right to bark at Christians with your RSS Criminal
propaganda. I think your Modi ask you to spread lies!
Even your VHP Criminals did nothing except spreading HATE and VIOLENCE
at the expense of Hindus?
Your VHP is now under a criminal RSS POPE. This is enough for any Hindu
to understand why you and other VHP/RSS coolies in Canada and USA bark
at Christians.
You RSS/VHP assholes enshrined MURDERING PEPLE as your religious norm
but Christians never have such things.
Telling lies and killing people are the holy activities of RSS.
You posted lies and now you cry when get caught! RSS bigots are born
liars and criminals!
RSS bigots like you never respect the land you live and eat.
Do you expect more tolerance from Canadians to screw them completely in
their own homes by the RSS foreigners?
So far you never talk anything truth but lied all the time. So, dont
cry like a fool! You are a paid asshole from the RSS and now you are on
the run! Dont fart you RSS ass! hahahahaha
Wanderer
If I quoted the entire article, that would be copyright infringement. I
quote the relevant portion, and I gave the reference(in my original
response to Karthikass) if you wanted to read the rest of it. "Unknown"
means exactly that. The known figure is so tiny as to be irrelevant to
the claim. But even if you include the entire number of 16,202, spread
over a period of 213 years, that's about 76 people a year. Of course,
not everyone brought to trial was executed, but even allowing for half
of them having been executed, would you consider killing 38 people a
year(after a "trial", not simply hacked to death in the streets) in a
general population of hundreds of thousands, if not a couple of million,
to be a "massacre"? And all of them were converted Christians
suspected(or falsely accused by rivals) of reverting to forbidden ways,
not Hindus refusing to convert.
> 'Goa Inquisition was most merciless and cruel'
> http://www.rediff.com/news/2005/sep/14inter1.htm
> Now, don't go ahead and claim that Richard Zimler also has some agenda
> of Hindutva supremacy.
Two things: first, Zimler gives no number for executions in that
article, so I don't know why you even bother to reference this
interview. Secondly, he has never visited Goa, by his own admission.
What would you say about someone who writes authoritatively about, say,
the activities of the RSS in India, but has never visited India for
research? I daresay Zimler got most of his material from saffron sources
such as your "christianaggression"..
> Details of the Goa Inquisition
> http://www.christianaggression.org/
"christianaggression" is run by Pawan Deshpande, who somehow and
misfortunately managed to get himself pulled into the saffron net. It is
full of false allegations, innuendo and deceit, and certainly not a
credible reference.
>> Do you seriously think that, if the Portuguese "summarily" executed
>> Hindus, there would have been such a huge number of Hindus still alive
>> when they left Goa? You are a f**king moron, and you prove it every time
>> you post.
>
> http://www.rediff.com/news/2005/sep/14inter1.htm
> "..historians consider the Goa Inquisition the most merciless and
> cruel ever developed. It was a machinery of death. A large number of
> Hindus were first converted and then persecuted from 1560 all the way
> to 1812!
>
> Over that period of 252 years, any man, woman, or child living in Goa
> could be arrested and tortured for simply whispering a prayer or
> keeping a small idol at home. Many Hindus -- and some former Jews, as
> well -- languished in special Inquisitional prisons, some for four,
> five, or six years at a time."
And what does that prove about huge numbers of Hindus being executed?
The reality is that the Inquisition in Spain and Spanish territories was
much more gruesome and bloody than any elsewhere in the world. The
"historians" that Zimler refers to are the saffron revisionists who
created this fictory.
>> And what do you have to say about the millions of Hindu girl babies
>> being killed every year by their Hindu parents? Not a f**king thing, I
>> gather. I mean, who gives a crap about Hindu girls, right, as long as
>> they die as Hindus? You saffron shitheads make me sick to my stomach!
>
> What makes you think that female foeticide is Hindu problem only? All
> research says that it is spread among ALL communities and religions.
> The BJP in fact hates female foeticide (
> http://www.bio-medicine.org/medicine-news/BJP-Seeks-Tougher-Laws-Against-Pre-Natal-Sex-Tests-12161-1/
> )
As far as I am aware, it is not a problem in the Christian community in
India. That said, what does it matter if it is also prevalent in other
religious communities in India? Does it make the fact of millions of
Hindu baby girls being executed for the crime of being female any more
palatable or justifiable? Does it make the execution of 38 people a year
a Goa seem like an incomparable atrocity? You are such a blockhead and
an apologist for the saffronites.
> http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/11/24/opinion/edswami.php
> "Assumed to be prevalent among Hindus, because of their custom
> requiring male progeny to perform cremation rites, female foeticide is
> in fact found today to be equally rampant among Sikhs, Muslims and
> Christians."
A statement that has no basis in fact. Check out the gender ratios for
Indian Christians versus Indian Hindus in this table, and tell me that
there is a problem with female foeticide among Indian Christians:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_India#Religious_breakdown
> The sex ratio among young children of Muslims is identical to that of
> the Hindus.
>
>>> I am not running away but you are crying like a sleezy dog and refuse
>>> to talk on the Catholic Criminals who are still believe in murdering
>>> others and the INQUISITIONS.
>>> RSS dont have anything like your INQUISITIONS!
>> No, you RSS shitheads outdo the Goa inquisition by orders of magnitude.
>> You must certainly be proud of that.
>
> A half-wit ignorant fool like yourself who yells falsehoods is merely
> being an irritating jackass.
Irritating enough for you to knee-jerk defend by using untruths?
Wanderer
> On Aug 18, 12:07 am, Wanderer <n...@there.yet> wrote:
>> tbj.b...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>> On Aug 17, 11:01 am, Wanderer <n...@there.yet> wrote:
>>>> tbj.b...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>>> HOW can Kirastanism induce anything right when it believes that the
>>>>> Earth is 6000 years old?
>>>> Where in Christian scripture do you find such a belief?
>>> Two claims from Bible:
>>> 1. Adam was the first man created on the 6th day by god.
>>> 2. Clearly spelled out line of the descendants of Adam and Eve.
>> That's not Christian scripture any more than it is Muslim scripture.
>
> What poppycock. Without this story, there is very little story left in
> Christianity. And how does it matter to the issue if Islam also
> believes in the same foolishness?
Because it's a Jewish creation story. Belief in the Genesis version of
creation is not essential to the Christian faith, which is more about
behavior than about belief in Jewish traditions. There are many
Christian denominations that do not even read the Old Testament, or
include it in their bibles.
"Original sin", which is a concept that Paul created, finds no basis
either in the old Testament(the Hebrew Tanakh) or in the teachings of
Christ. Christianity is no longer the monolith it was under the Catholic
church, and there are many diverse views on the traditional Christian
theology developed by the Catholic church, theology which in many cases
was based on the expediencies of the time in which it was developed. It
is fortunate that Christianity has evolved into a religion that permits
discussion, debate and change, yes?
>> Do you know the stories of creation in Hinduism?
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinduism_and_creationism
That's very sanitized. How about reading some actual stories?
http://www.painsley.org.uk/re/signposts/y8/1-1creationandenvironment/c-hindu.htm
http://www.unesco.org/courier/2001_05/uk/doss24.htm
http://www.trivia-library.com/a/hindu-creation-story-and-myth.htm
http://everything2.com/title/Brahma
Which version do _you_ believe in?
tbj....@yahoo.com
> tbj.b...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > On Aug 18, 12:07 am, Wanderer <n...@there.yet> wrote:
> >> tbj.b...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >>> On Aug 17, 11:01 am, Wanderer <n...@there.yet> wrote:
> >>>> tbj.b...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >>>>> HOW can Kirastanism induce anything right when it believes that the
> >>>>> Earth is 6000 years old?
> >>>> Where in Christian scripture do you find such a belief?
> >>> Two claims from Bible:
> >>> 1. Adam was the first man created on the 6th day by god.
> >>> 2. Clearly spelled out line of the descendants of Adam and Eve.
> >> That's not Christian scripture any more than it is Muslim scripture.
>
> > What poppycock. Without this story, there is very little story left in
> > Christianity. And how does it matter to the issue if Islam also
> > believes in the same foolishness?
>
> Because it's a Jewish creation story. Belief in the Genesis version of
> creation is not essential to the Christian faith, which is more about
> behavior than about belief in Jewish traditions. There are many
> Christian denominations that do not even read the Old Testament, or
> include it in their bibles.
Goodness. Now you are making up your own definition of what a
Christian needs to believe or not!
WHO says that Genesis is not central to Christianity? Heck, even Jesus
(if he lived) believed in Genesis! The Pentateuch of which Genesis is
the first book is common to all Christian denominations.
> "Original sin", which is a concept that Paul created, finds no basis
> either in the old Testament(the Hebrew Tanakh) or in the teachings of
> Christ. Christianity is no longer the monolith it was under the Catholic
> church, and there are many diverse views on the traditional Christian
> theology developed by the Catholic church, theology which in many cases
> was based on the expediencies of the time in which it was developed. It
> is fortunate that Christianity has evolved into a religion that permits
> discussion, debate and change, yes?
Rot and poppycock. Christianity has no legs to stand on without the
Old Testament. Without the Old Testament, Jesus is nothing more than a
Guru like Maharishi Yogi.
> >> Do you know the stories of creation in Hinduism?
>
> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinduism_and_creationism
>
> That's very sanitized. How about reading some actual stories?http://www.painsley.org.uk/re/signposts/y8/1-1creationandenvironment/...http://www.unesco.org/courier/2001_05/uk/doss24.htmhttp://www.trivia-library.com/a/hindu-creation-story-and-myth.htmhttp://everything2.com/title/Brahma
>
> Which version do _you_ believe in?
I believe in the right of every individual to choose his poison.
That's the Hindu way.
tbj....@yahoo.com
If it's not recorded then it didn't happen, eh? How perverse of you!
> > 'Goa Inquisition was most merciless and cruel'
> >http://www.rediff.com/news/2005/sep/14inter1.htm
> > Now, don't go ahead and claim that Richard Zimler also has some agenda
> > of Hindutva supremacy.
>
> Two things: first, Zimler gives no number for executions in that
> article, so I don't know why you even bother to reference this
> interview. Secondly, he has never visited Goa, by his own admission.
Because Zimler wrote a BOOK on the subject. Goddamnit.
> What would you say about someone who writes authoritatively about, say,
> the activities of the RSS in India, but has never visited India for
> research? I daresay Zimler got most of his material from saffron sources
> such as your "christianaggression"..
And what 'authority' does your quote of unknown authors from the open-
source Wikipedia have? Zilch, that's what.
> > Details of the Goa Inquisition
> >http://www.christianaggression.org/
>
> "christianaggression" is run by Pawan Deshpande, who somehow and
> misfortunately managed to get himself pulled into the saffron net. It is
> full of false allegations, innuendo and deceit, and certainly not a
> credible reference.
What makes you the authority of what is credible? You present no
evidence, and yet defend the Goan inquisition as if your family's
honour is tied to it somehow!
>
>
> >> Do you seriously think that, if the Portuguese "summarily" executed
> >> Hindus, there would have been such a huge number of Hindus still alive
> >> when they left Goa? You are a f**king moron, and you prove it every time
> >> you post.
>
> >http://www.rediff.com/news/2005/sep/14inter1.htm
> > "..historians consider the Goa Inquisition the most merciless and
> > cruel ever developed. It was a machinery of death. A large number of
> > Hindus were first converted and then persecuted from 1560 all the way
> > to 1812!
>
> > Over that period of 252 years, any man, woman, or child living in Goa
> > could be arrested and tortured for simply whispering a prayer or
> > keeping a small idol at home. Many Hindus -- and some former Jews, as
> > well -- languished in special Inquisitional prisons, some for four,
> > five, or six years at a time."
>
> And what does that prove about huge numbers of Hindus being executed?
> The reality is that the Inquisition in Spain and Spanish territories was
> much more gruesome and bloody than any elsewhere in the world. The
> "historians" that Zimler refers to are the saffron revisionists who
> created this fictory.
On WHAT basis are you claiming that Zimler used questionable sources
for the research for his book?
Goddamnit.
> >> And what do you have to say about the millions of Hindu girl babies
> >> being killed every year by their Hindu parents? Not a f**king thing, I
> >> gather. I mean, who gives a crap about Hindu girls, right, as long as
> >> they die as Hindus? You saffron shitheads make me sick to my stomach!
>
> > What makes you think that female foeticide is Hindu problem only? All
> > research says that it is spread among ALL communities and religions.
> > The BJP in fact hates female foeticide (
> >http://www.bio-medicine.org/medicine-news/BJP-Seeks-Tougher-Laws-Agai...
> > )
>
> As far as I am aware, it is not a problem in the Christian community in
> India. That said, what does it matter if it is also prevalent in other
> religious communities in India? Does it make the fact of millions of
> Hindu baby girls being executed for the crime of being female any more
> palatable or justifiable? Does it make the execution of 38 people a year
> a Goa seem like an incomparable atrocity? You are such a blockhead and
> an apologist for the saffronites.
Again, on WHAT authority are you claiming that only 38 people a year
died in the Goan inquisition?
Goddamnit, show some spine instead of slinging mud on everything
Hindu.
> >http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/11/24/opinion/edswami.php
> > "Assumed to be prevalent among Hindus, because of their custom
> > requiring male progeny to perform cremation rites, female foeticide is
> > in fact found today to be equally rampant among Sikhs, Muslims and
> > Christians."
>
> A statement that has no basis in fact. Check out the gender ratios for
> Indian Christians versus Indian Hindus in this table, and tell me that
> there is a problem with female foeticide among Indian Christians:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_India#Religious_breakdown
Foeticide does not show up unless you look at gender ratios below 5
years of age.
Goddamnit, get a clue! If old Christian maids outlive their men more
than what happens in Hindus, that could very well account for the
overall gender ratio. If the statistics for Christians are dominated
by Kerala, then the Kerala culture could explain the difference -
since all communities in Kerala have a similar high female/male sex
ratio.
> > The sex ratio among young children of Muslims is identical to that of
> > the Hindus.
>
> >>> I am not running away but you are crying like a sleezy dog and refuse
> >>> to talk on the Catholic Criminals who are still believe in murdering
> >>> others and the INQUISITIONS.
> >>> RSS dont have anything like your INQUISITIONS!
> >> No, you RSS shitheads outdo the Goa inquisition by orders of magnitude.
> >> You must certainly be proud of that.
>
> > A half-wit ignorant fool like yourself who yells falsehoods is merely
> > being an irritating jackass.
>
> Irritating enough for you to knee-jerk defend by using untruths?
Look who's talking.
Wanderer
> On Aug 18, 4:32 pm, Wanderer <n...@there.yet> wrote:
>> tbj.b...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>> On Aug 18, 12:07 am, Wanderer <n...@there.yet> wrote:
>>>> tbj.b...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>>> On Aug 17, 11:01 am, Wanderer <n...@there.yet> wrote:
>>>>>> tbj.b...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>>>>> HOW can Kirastanism induce anything right when it believes that the
>>>>>>> Earth is 6000 years old?
>>>>>> Where in Christian scripture do you find such a belief?
>>>>> Two claims from Bible:
>>>>> 1. Adam was the first man created on the 6th day by god.
>>>>> 2. Clearly spelled out line of the descendants of Adam and Eve.
>>>> That's not Christian scripture any more than it is Muslim scripture.
>>> What poppycock. Without this story, there is very little story left in
>>> Christianity. And how does it matter to the issue if Islam also
>>> believes in the same foolishness?
>> Because it's a Jewish creation story. Belief in the Genesis version of
>> creation is not essential to the Christian faith, which is more about
>> behavior than about belief in Jewish traditions. There are many
>> Christian denominations that do not even read the Old Testament, or
>> include it in their bibles.
>
> Goodness. Now you are making up your own definition of what a
> Christian needs to believe or not!
Why not? You certainly aren't going to define for me what a Christian
needs to believe!
> WHO says that Genesis is not central to Christianity? Heck, even Jesus
> (if he lived) believed in Genesis! The Pentateuch of which Genesis is
> the first book is common to all Christian denominations.
No it's not. If it were, Christians would not eat pork or tuna, they
would worship on Saturday(like the SDAs), and they would all be
circumcized. Some elements of the Pentateuch, relating to social conduct
and morality, are observed by Christians but they do not, by and large,
have a literal and complete acceptance of it.
>> "Original sin", which is a concept that Paul created, finds no basis
>> either in the old Testament(the Hebrew Tanakh) or in the teachings of
>> Christ. Christianity is no longer the monolith it was under the Catholic
>> church, and there are many diverse views on the traditional Christian
>> theology developed by the Catholic church, theology which in many cases
>> was based on the expediencies of the time in which it was developed. It
>> is fortunate that Christianity has evolved into a religion that permits
>> discussion, debate and change, yes?
>
> Rot and poppycock. Christianity has no legs to stand on without the
> Old Testament. Without the Old Testament, Jesus is nothing more than a
> Guru like Maharishi Yogi.
Since you are such an authority on Jesus, perhaps you can point out what
his bedrock teachings were that wholly depend on the OT. Perhaps Jesus
was indeed a guru like Maharishi Yogi, but no one accuses MY of
plagiarizing Jesus, do they? No one says, "Well, if you are going to be
a follower of MY, why not just become a Christian?", do they? The
problem is that you saffronites are terrified of losing "membership" and
leverage to the competition.
>>>> Do you know the stories of creation in Hinduism?
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinduism_and_creationism
>> That's very sanitized. How about reading some actual stories?http://www.painsley.org.uk/re/signposts/y8/1-1creationandenvironment/...http://www.unesco.org/courier/2001_05/uk/doss24.htmhttp://www.trivia-library.com/a/hindu-creation-story-and-myth.htmhttp://everything2.com/title/Brahma
>>
>> Which version do _you_ believe in?
>
> I believe in the right of every individual to choose his poison.
> That's the Hindu way.
That wasn't the question. The question was, which version of Hindu
creationism do you believe in? I asked the question because of your
assertion that every Christian necessarily believes in the Genesis
version. By the same token, I could assert that Hindus necessarily
believe in one or more of the versions of creationism contained in the
Puranas/Vedas. What's yours?
Wanderer
If it's not recorded, and/or if there is not additional authentic
evidence, then all you have are _allegations_. In this case allegations
by saffron "scholars". Are you really this stupid, or do you make an
extraordinary effort to project yourself thus?
>>> 'Goa Inquisition was most merciless and cruel'
>>> http://www.rediff.com/news/2005/sep/14inter1.htm
>>> Now, don't go ahead and claim that Richard Zimler also has some agenda
>>> of Hindutva supremacy.
>> Two things: first, Zimler gives no number for executions in that
>> article, so I don't know why you even bother to reference this
>> interview. Secondly, he has never visited Goa, by his own admission.
>
> Because Zimler wrote a BOOK on the subject. Goddamnit.
So? I could write a book on the persecution of the Inca by sea-faring
Inuit. Would you accept that as fact? Goddamnit.
>> What would you say about someone who writes authoritatively about, say,
>> the activities of the RSS in India, but has never visited India for
>> research? I daresay Zimler got most of his material from saffron sources
>> such as your "christianaggression"..
>
> And what 'authority' does your quote of unknown authors from the open-
> source Wikipedia have? Zilch, that's what.
If you had the honesty to examine the article with an open mind, you
might have noticed that a reference was provided. Challenge the
reference, if you will.
>>> Details of the Goa Inquisition
>>> http://www.christianaggression.org/
>> "christianaggression" is run by Pawan Deshpande, who somehow and
>> misfortunately managed to get himself pulled into the saffron net. It is
>> full of false allegations, innuendo and deceit, and certainly not a
>> credible reference.
>
> What makes you the authority of what is credible? You present no
> evidence, and yet defend the Goan inquisition as if your family's
> honour is tied to it somehow!
I presented the _available_ evidence. You provided nothing save a
bigoted website that makes the most outrageous allegations, insinuations
and slander. I did not ever "defend" the Goa inquisition. I corrected a
gross misrepresentation of it.
>>>> Do you seriously think that, if the Portuguese "summarily" executed
>>>> Hindus, there would have been such a huge number of Hindus still alive
>>>> when they left Goa? You are a f**king moron, and you prove it every time
>>>> you post.
>>> http://www.rediff.com/news/2005/sep/14inter1.htm
>>> "..historians consider the Goa Inquisition the most merciless and
>>> cruel ever developed. It was a machinery of death. A large number of
>>> Hindus were first converted and then persecuted from 1560 all the way
>>> to 1812!
>>> Over that period of 252 years, any man, woman, or child living in Goa
>>> could be arrested and tortured for simply whispering a prayer or
>>> keeping a small idol at home. Many Hindus -- and some former Jews, as
>>> well -- languished in special Inquisitional prisons, some for four,
>>> five, or six years at a time."
>> And what does that prove about huge numbers of Hindus being executed?
>> The reality is that the Inquisition in Spain and Spanish territories was
>> much more gruesome and bloody than any elsewhere in the world. The
>> "historians" that Zimler refers to are the saffron revisionists who
>> created this fictory.
>
> On WHAT basis are you claiming that Zimler used questionable sources
> for the research for his book?
> Goddamnit.
Anyone writing a book on a subject needs to get as close to the subject
as possible. Are you claiming that websites maintained by saffronites
are authoritative sources on the Goa inquisition? Zimler needed to
examine the available records in Goa and in Portugal. He needed to
interview people on the ground in Goa to retrieve family recollections,
and possibly physical evidence. He did none of that. He didn't even
visit Goa, claiming "modern Goa" would "infiltrate" his novel(which,
btw, is not a history of the Goan inquisition as you seem to believe).
He says that he discovered that the Portuguese had exported the
inquisition to Goa, but goes on to say that "I was shocked that my
friends in Portugal knew nothing about it". My guess is that his
"discovery" came by way of websites such as the one you cited.
Goddamnit.
>>>> And what do you have to say about the millions of Hindu girl babies
>>>> being killed every year by their Hindu parents? Not a f**king thing, I
>>>> gather. I mean, who gives a crap about Hindu girls, right, as long as
>>>> they die as Hindus? You saffron shitheads make me sick to my stomach!
>>> What makes you think that female foeticide is Hindu problem only? All
>>> research says that it is spread among ALL communities and religions.
>>> The BJP in fact hates female foeticide (
>>> http://www.bio-medicine.org/medicine-news/BJP-Seeks-Tougher-Laws-Agai...
>>> )
>> As far as I am aware, it is not a problem in the Christian community in
>> India. That said, what does it matter if it is also prevalent in other
>> religious communities in India? Does it make the fact of millions of
>> Hindu baby girls being executed for the crime of being female any more
>> palatable or justifiable? Does it make the execution of 38 people a year
>> a Goa seem like an incomparable atrocity? You are such a blockhead and
>> an apologist for the saffronites.
>
> Again, on WHAT authority are you claiming that only 38 people a year
> died in the Goan inquisition?
> Goddamnit, show some spine instead of slinging mud on everything
> Hindu.
Show me how I have slung mud on everything Hindu by stating that the
available evidence only shows the execution of 1 person every 4 years,
but have generously allowed for the assumption that half of all the
people brought before the inquisition were in fact executed. That is the
basis for my _allowance_, for comparison with the wholesale genocide of
girl children that goes on without comment from saffron defenders of the
Hindu faith such as yourself.
>>> http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/11/24/opinion/edswami.php
>>> "Assumed to be prevalent among Hindus, because of their custom
>>> requiring male progeny to perform cremation rites, female foeticide is
>>> in fact found today to be equally rampant among Sikhs, Muslims and
>>> Christians."
>> A statement that has no basis in fact. Check out the gender ratios for
>> Indian Christians versus Indian Hindus in this table, and tell me that
>> there is a problem with female foeticide among Indian Christians:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_India#Religious_breakdown
>
> Foeticide does not show up unless you look at gender ratios below 5
> years of age.
The history of foeticide shows up in the general population. This is not
a recent phenomenon. It has been going on for decades. Now, can you
provide evidence for the claim that "female foeticide is in fact found
today to be equally rampant among Sikhs, Muslims and Christians"? I
personally have not heard even an anecdotal story of a Christian couple
aborting a fetus specifically because it was female. Not to say that it
could never happen, but I would bet a heck of a lot less than in the
general population.
> Goddamnit, get a clue! If old Christian maids outlive their men more
> than what happens in Hindus, that could very well account for the
> overall gender ratio. If the statistics for Christians are dominated
> by Kerala, then the Kerala culture could explain the difference -
> since all communities in Kerala have a similar high female/male sex
> ratio.
You are clutching at straws! If the Kerala Christians numerically
dominate the Indian Christian population, and they have a male-female
ration that indicates a relative absence of female foeticide, then you
have(by your own admission in using this argument) no basis to make the
claim that "female foeticide is in fact found today to be equally
rampant among Sikhs, Muslims and Christians".
>>> The sex ratio among young children of Muslims is identical to that of
>>> the Hindus.
>>>>> I am not running away but you are crying like a sleezy dog and refuse
>>>>> to talk on the Catholic Criminals who are still believe in murdering
>>>>> others and the INQUISITIONS.
>>>>> RSS dont have anything like your INQUISITIONS!
>>>> No, you RSS shitheads outdo the Goa inquisition by orders of magnitude.
>>>> You must certainly be proud of that.
>>> A half-wit ignorant fool like yourself who yells falsehoods is merely
>>> being an irritating jackass.
>> Irritating enough for you to knee-jerk defend by using untruths?
>
> Look who's talking.
Then prove me wrong instead of making innuendos. Prove that there was
truly a massacre(and of Hindus at that) in Goa. Prove that female
infanticide is as rampant among Christians as among Hindus.
tbj....@yahoo.com
"Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did
not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till
heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means
pass from the law till all is fulfilled.” (Matthew 5:17)
Jesus allegedly was talking of the Pentateuch here.
Are you a bigger authority on Christianity than the supposed Christ
himself?
> >> "Original sin", which is a concept that Paul created, finds no basis
> >> either in the old Testament(the Hebrew Tanakh) or in the teachings of
> >> Christ. Christianity is no longer the monolith it was under the Catholic
> >> church, and there are many diverse views on the traditional Christian
> >> theology developed by the Catholic church, theology which in many cases
> >> was based on the expediencies of the time in which it was developed. It
> >> is fortunate that Christianity has evolved into a religion that permits
> >> discussion, debate and change, yes?
>
> > Rot and poppycock. Christianity has no legs to stand on without the
> > Old Testament. Without the Old Testament, Jesus is nothing more than a
> > Guru like Maharishi Yogi.
>
> Since you are such an authority on Jesus, perhaps you can point out what
> his bedrock teachings were that wholly depend on the OT. Perhaps Jesus
> was indeed a guru like Maharishi Yogi, but no one accuses MY of
> plagiarizing Jesus, do they? No one says, "Well, if you are going to be
> a follower of MY, why not just become a Christian?", do they? The
> problem is that you saffronites are terrified of losing "membership" and
> leverage to the competition.
More poppycock.
"Those who sanctify and purify themselves to go into the gardens,
following one in the midst, eating swine's flesh and the abomination
and mice, shall come to an end together says the LORD. " (Isaiah
67:17)
Jesus' use of Old Testament
http://www.biblicalstudies.org.uk/article_jesusot_jenkins.html
[
Jesus used direct quotations of OT Scripture to:
1. Defeat the enemy (Matt.4:4, 7, 10).
2. Rightly interpret the Law (5; 15:4, 8-9; 22:32).
3. Explain the purpose of His coming (9:13; 10:36).
4. Explain the ministry of John the Baptist (11:10).
5. Explain God's requirements (12:7).
6. Explain the response of some people who heard Him (13:14-15).
7. Explain particular points He was making (18:16; 19:4-5; 21:42;
23:39).
8. In answer to questions asked Him (19:18-19; 22:37, 39).
9. Show an OT Scripture that needs to be fulfilled (21:5; 26:31).
10. Remind evil-doers what the prophets say (21:16).
11. Ask others a question (22:44).
12. Remind people of unfulfilled prophecies (24:15; 24:29).
13. Express His emotions on the cross (27:47).
Indirect References
1) Jesus mentioned OT characters:
* Moses (Matt.19:8).
* David (22:43).
* Abel (23:35).
* Zechariah (23:35).
* Daniel (24:15).
* Noah (24:37).
2) Jesus used the words 'the Law & the prophets' to explain a point he
was making about the 'Greatest Commandment' (22:40).
3) Jesus used the words 'the Scriptures' to explain a point while He
was being arrested (26:54).
4) Jesus used the words 'the Law' during the Sermon on the Mount
(5:17-20).
5) Jesus mentioned OT place names:
* Gomorrah (10:15).
* Sodom (10:15; 11:23-24).
]
> >>>> Do you know the stories of creation in Hinduism?
> >>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinduism_and_creationism
> >> That's very sanitized. How about reading some actual stories?http://www.painsley.org.uk/re/signposts/y8/1-1creationandenvironment/...
>
> >> Which version do _you_ believe in?
>
> > I believe in the right of every individual to choose his poison.
> > That's the Hindu way.
>
> That wasn't the question. The question was, which version of Hindu
> creationism do you believe in? I asked the question because of your
> assertion that every Christian necessarily believes in the Genesis
> version. By the same token, I could assert that Hindus necessarily
> believe in one or more of the versions of creationism contained in the
> Puranas/Vedas. What's yours?
But Hinduism is not like Christianity, is it? Hinduism is an evolving
philosophy while Christianity is a fixed dogma.
Wanderer
> On Aug 18, 9:14 pm, Wanderer <n...@there.yet> wrote:
>> tbj.b...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>
>>
>>> WHO says that Genesis is not central to Christianity? Heck, even Jesus
>>> (if he lived) believed in Genesis! The Pentateuch of which Genesis is
>>> the first book is common to all Christian denominations.
>> No it's not. If it were, Christians would not eat pork or tuna, they
>> would worship on Saturday(like the SDAs), and they would all be
>> circumcized. Some elements of the Pentateuch, relating to social conduct
>> and morality, are observed by Christians but they do not, by and large,
>> have a literal and complete acceptance of it.
>
> "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did
> not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till
> heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means
> pass from the law till all is fulfilled.” (Matthew 5:17)
>
> Jesus allegedly was talking of the Pentateuch here.
>
> Are you a bigger authority on Christianity than the supposed Christ
> himself?
You say "allegedly". Who alleges? Jesus was talking of Mosaic law which
governed his Jewish society. He was talking of the Prophets who are an
essential prop of the Jewish sense of their own special place. The last
part of that verse you need to read again to understand what it means.
Jesus was not a god, nor some sort of divine being. That persona was
created after the fact. What he was, was a teacher, a reformer, an early
socialist if you will, in the feudal capitalist theocratic society of
his day. His teachings, to me, have far less to do with worship or
Mosaic law than with human compassion. Events like "The Last Supper"
were probably exaggerated. The "Rising" on Easter was also probably
ficititious(heretic that I am, my soul will burn in eternal hellfire!
;-)). But when you get past all that, what you are left with is the
enjoining to compassion. Jesus wasn't the first to preach compassion,
nor did he invent the concept. However, he has arguably had,
contemporarily and posthumously, greater success with it than anyone
before or since.
>>>> "Original sin", which is a concept that Paul created, finds no basis
>>>> either in the old Testament(the Hebrew Tanakh) or in the teachings of
>>>> Christ. Christianity is no longer the monolith it was under the Catholic
>>>> church, and there are many diverse views on the traditional Christian
>>>> theology developed by the Catholic church, theology which in many cases
>>>> was based on the expediencies of the time in which it was developed. It
>>>> is fortunate that Christianity has evolved into a religion that permits
>>>> discussion, debate and change, yes?
>>> Rot and poppycock. Christianity has no legs to stand on without the
>>> Old Testament. Without the Old Testament, Jesus is nothing more than a
>>> Guru like Maharishi Yogi.
>> Since you are such an authority on Jesus, perhaps you can point out what
>> his bedrock teachings were that wholly depend on the OT. Perhaps Jesus
>> was indeed a guru like Maharishi Yogi, but no one accuses MY of
>> plagiarizing Jesus, do they? No one says, "Well, if you are going to be
>> a follower of MY, why not just become a Christian?", do they? The
>> problem is that you saffronites are terrified of losing "membership" and
>> leverage to the competition.
>
> More poppycock.
>
> "Those who sanctify and purify themselves to go into the gardens,
> following one in the midst, eating swine's flesh and the abomination
> and mice, shall come to an end together says the LORD. " (Isaiah
> 67:17)
Which only reinforces my contention that if Christians held dogmatically
to the OT, they would not eat pork.
> Jesus' use of Old Testament
> http://www.biblicalstudies.org.uk/article_jesusot_jenkins.html
>
> [
> Jesus used direct quotations of OT Scripture to:
>
> 1. Defeat the enemy (Matt.4:4, 7, 10).
> 2. Rightly interpret the Law (5; 15:4, 8-9; 22:32).
> 3. Explain the purpose of His coming (9:13; 10:36).
> 4. Explain the ministry of John the Baptist (11:10).
> 5. Explain God's requirements (12:7).
> 6. Explain the response of some people who heard Him (13:14-15).
> 7. Explain particular points He was making (18:16; 19:4-5; 21:42;
> 23:39).
> 8. In answer to questions asked Him (19:18-19; 22:37, 39).
> 9. Show an OT Scripture that needs to be fulfilled (21:5; 26:31).
> 10. Remind evil-doers what the prophets say (21:16).
> 11. Ask others a question (22:44).
> 12. Remind people of unfulfilled prophecies (24:15; 24:29).
> 13. Express His emotions on the cross (27:47).
As I've said before, there are parts of the OT that Christians accept,
and others that they do not, depending on the denomination and the
individual. The charge that Christians are dogmatic is so far from the
truth as to be laughable. If Christians were dogmatic, trust me, no
Muslims, Hindus or Buddhists would ever migrate to countries dominated
by Christians, much less actually become citizens of those countries.
> But Hinduism is not like Christianity, is it? Hinduism is an evolving
> philosophy while Christianity is a fixed dogma.
One would be hard put to see that in reality. Christian-dominated
countries are becoming ever more liberal, while most other countries are
moving in the opposite direction. As for India, while it is generally
moving in a liberal direction, that direction is sought to be reversed
by dogmatic saffron organizations like the RSS and VHP, with the support
of people like you.
You say "Hinduism is an evolving philosophy". Perhaps you can point out
examples from the RSS or VHP literature?
You still won't cop to your belief in creationism?
tbj....@yahoo.com
But Jesus supposedly claimed to be the son of god. Are you suggesting
that he was deluded?
I am saying that Christianity is dogmatic. Your comprehension skills
are quite bad.
> > But Hinduism is not like Christianity, is it? Hinduism is an evolving
> > philosophy while Christianity is a fixed dogma.
>
> One would be hard put to see that in reality. Christian-dominated
> countries are becoming ever more liberal, while most other countries are
> moving in the opposite direction. As for India, while it is generally
> moving in a liberal direction, that direction is sought to be reversed
> by dogmatic saffron organizations like the RSS and VHP, with the support
> of people like you.
'Reversed' how? By stopping the predation upon Hindus and Hinduism?
> You say "Hinduism is an evolving philosophy". Perhaps you can point out
> examples from the RSS or VHP literature?
>
> You still won't cop to your belief in creationism?
I believe in the freedom to believe. You seem to believe in the
dogmatic propaganda of monotheists.
karthika
>
> - Show quoted text -
You prove that you are an idiot and know nothing about the rule of
Portugeuse in India and Sri lanka.
Dont cry for Canada which is not your country.
Further you cannot show any evidence of RSS murders!
But Christian Bush is a living example for lies and murders.
Now you are short of words to bark!
You Christians are murdering people in the name of GOD like Muslims.
That is why Muslims and Christians are good friends in India.
cyberhinwa
Wanderer
"Allegedly" and "supposedly"....
"son of god" is not the same as "god". If you believe in God, we are all
children of God, in a way. So you could say you are a son of God, or
not. There's a fellow in Puttaparthi who claims that he _is_ God. Would
you suggest that he is delusional, or perhaps just deluding?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sb3BHjgXDKc&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyZ5NI_QjXw&feature=related
Yes, you said that, and I responded to that. What part of my response
did you take to indicate that I did not know that you said Christianity
is dogmatic?
Would you consider the belief that a certain "god" was born at a
specific spot, without any evidence for it, is an essential part of your
faith to be dogmatic? Would you consider the belief that a massive
flying monkey was capable of carrying mountains to be dogmatic? Would
you say that the belief that the excreta of cows is divinely healthy is
dogmatic?
>>> But Hinduism is not like Christianity, is it? Hinduism is an evolving
>>> philosophy while Christianity is a fixed dogma.
>> One would be hard put to see that in reality. Christian-dominated
>> countries are becoming ever more liberal, while most other countries are
>> moving in the opposite direction. As for India, while it is generally
>> moving in a liberal direction, that direction is sought to be reversed
>> by dogmatic saffron organizations like the RSS and VHP, with the support
>> of people like you.
>
> 'Reversed' how? By stopping the predation upon Hindus and Hinduism?
By thrusting the country back into a primitive theocracy. By stifling
progressive Hindus who want to reform Hinduism. By promoting the
dogmatic beliefs I referred to above.
>> You say "Hinduism is an evolving philosophy". Perhaps you can point out
>> examples from the RSS or VHP literature?
>>
>> You still won't cop to your belief in creationism?
>
> I believe in the freedom to believe. You seem to believe in the
> dogmatic propaganda of monotheists.
You _don't_ believe in the freedom to believe. If you did, you would
have no objection to Hindus being exposed to alternative theologies(or
philosophies) for them to freely choose what they would believe in. You
would not object to reformist Hindus who don't have the dogmatic beliefs
that you do.
Do you have any examples of evolving Hindu philosophy from the RSS or VHP?
kuri...@gmail.com
> On Aug 17, 7:53 am, kurian...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Aug 15, 12:57 am, "tbj.b...@yahoo.com" <tbj.b...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Aug 15, 8:23 am, kurian...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > > > On Aug 14, 7:48 pm, mud...@sympatico.ca wrote:
>
>
> > > > > > On Aug 14, 12:31 pm, "harmony" <a...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > hey, did all hindus read this post? just want to be sure.
> > > > > > > i thought this was a startling "revelation" even to kirastanis themselves
> > > > > > > who are not likely to say so openly.
>
> > > > > > > "harmony" <a...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> > > > > > >news:489b6b8e$0$4045$bbae...@news.suddenlink.net...
>
> > > > > > > > 96 pct of kirastanis in the west are now totally disillusioned. they have
> > > > > > > > changed, and now believe:
>
> > > > > > > > -bible does not contain absolute moral truth
> > > > > > > > - jesus did not live sinless life
> > > > > > > > - salvation can be, and should be, earned. ie it is not, never was,
> > > > > > > > personal property of jesus to give it away to his followers. (many experts
> > > > > > > > believe that salvation may not even be possible in the violently
> > > > > > > > propagated kirastanism over the centuries).
> > > > > > > > - kirastanis need to shed missionarism.
> > > > > > > > - bible is made up stuff.
>
> > > > > > > >http://www.socalcsb.org/The%20Decline%20of%20Christian%20Culture%20in...
>
>
>
> > > > > > - Show quoted text -
>
>
> > > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > > live among the "saffronites" by going to the west and living among
> > > > those western much despised "kristianis". Why the hypocrisy? Why
> > > > don't you tell the truth to yourself? Tell clearly who can't put up
> > > > with whom!
>
> > > Are you suggesting that while 'kirastanis' can invade India and rule
> > > it for centuries, or they can invade the weak nations of the Americas
> > > and take over, but the evil thing to do is for the former colonial
> > > subjects to point out the evil in Christianity?
>
> > You have every right to point out the evils of Christianity or any
> > other religion.
> > If I want to say something I say it directly and I don’t project my
> > thoughts on others and make the readers think that the source of
> > information is not me. I don’t have to suggest, allude or hide behind
> > cryptic remarks. Your inability to separate events of history, such
> > as wars, occupation, subjugation, colonialism etc from the prevalent
> > faith and beliefs of the people shows a programmed bias. Colonialism
> > is not an outcome of Christian teachings, beliefs or its practice.
Some persons go around sniffling other people’s underwear for
ideological deviance and non compliance of Guru Golwaker’s directives
and instructions. When they find one they pounce on that person with
no abandon and with no holds barred. This is a response to the such
an attack on Kristanis (Christians) To look good , the attackers
think, they must portray others in the worst light, and demonize them
and make the fellow travelers believe that all the miseries of the
world are the result these Kristianis. For them the end is more
important, and any means can be used. The less informed one is the
better will be the argument. Truth has no place in such delicate
dialogues. Lie lavishly, distort as much as you want, but don’t forget
your objectives
> Colonialism was aided immensely by the missionaries who defended the
> colonization process as 'God's work', just as they are doing nowadays
> in India.
Instead of basing your arguments on RSS propaganda manuals why don’t
come up with historical evidence for what you said. If you read the
history of the British colonization (initially East India Company) of
India they (the British) were totally against letting missionaries
come over and establish themselves in any part of the colony they
controlled. Why did they object? They did not want the moralizing
lectures from this “nuisance group” and they were afraid this
“nuisance group” may expose their evil deeds and exploitation of the
natives to the people “back home”. So much for missionaries aiding
colonialism. To refresh your memory Christianity was well rooted and
thriving in Indian soil long before the colonialists came, and that
did not happen without movement of the people and not without
proclaiming message of their faith. Buddhism spread across the
subcontinent and beyond the same way.
> Putting the Bible into printed text (with the arrival of
> printing press) gave the kirastanis the delusion that somehow 'God's
> word' had become permanent and anyone holding the printed word was
> somehow 'an agent of good' even if they were aiding genocides. That
> delusion is resurfacing in the form of evangelism today.
This is nothing but malicious nonsense. Whether you like it or not,
printing and making books available to common man (although most of
them were still illiterate) was a life altering event for individuals
and for the entire humanity. Treating people equally and making all
things available to all may not be part of all ideologies and all
religions. Some even went to the extent of denying the people a chance
to read, learn and understand their own religions (or the religion
they thought they belonged). This was accomplished by denying them
any kind of education.
Only those who have devoted considerable amount of time in reading
and studying must comment on religious books especially books of other
religions. To a Hindu Gita and Vedas are the ultimate sources of
wisdom, to a Muslim the Koran is the infallible word of God, to a
Christian the Bible contains all he needs to know about God’s purpose,
the reason for existence of everything and salvation. We wish that
every adherent of every religion is faithful to his beliefs, and will
show by example how one can benefit by such practices. To Christians
this includes proclaiming their faith and the reasons for their faith
to the entire humanity. The most rapid and very fervent embracing of
Christianity occurred when the converts were socially backward and
economically and culturally very weak. That happened in the first 4
centuries. The initiation and spread of Christianity in India also
occurred during the same time.
That does not mean one may agree and comply with alternate belief
systems. Some do treat disagreements as a sure sign of hatred and
intolerance. Such an attitude points only to immaturity at best,
dangerous indoctrination at worst. Proclaiming one’s views and
beliefs may sometimes result in negation (exclusion) of alternate
views. I wish the rabid anti-Christians in this newsgroup will
acknowledge this and those who indulge in maligning other faiths and
beliefs will refrain from it. Some may think that the best defense is
a good offence. Actually offense rooted in falsehood, impure motive,
inaccurate and distorted historical facts will only backfire.
> The content
> of the texts were never put under scrutiny, but printed books were a
> novelty that awed the natives of many places. Colonialism used
> Biblical justifications to defend the greed and racism of the
> Europeans. Just as Islam did earlier using the Koran.
Those who are not exposed to the teachings of Christianity may think
that you are telling the truth. What are the Biblical justification
used to defend greed and racism? Selfish people, all throughout
history used whatever they can get, including misinterpreting
religious books, to further their ends. Studying or even hearing
Vedas by lower class (castes) was forbidden and the prescribed
penalties for violation were very severe. Please tell whether or not
such advocacy was part of Hindu religion.
>
> This is the evil you are defending in its assault on Hinduism:
This is a typical example of using perverted offence as a means of
defense.
You are not making yourself clear. What is the evil? Christianity?
Or the purported Biblical justifications? You didn’t read the book
that I suggested last time, did you?
>
> http://freetruth.50webs.org/Index.htm
>
> > But that line of argument has been the mainstay for many on this
> > newsgroup. You and many others who hold similar views assume that the
> > root cause of all wrongs done by the west is their religion, namely
> > Christianity. However you are not prepared to concede that their
> > faiths and beliefs have anything to do with many good things they have
> > done.
>
> Such as? Inquisitions, colonialism, genocides, racism and slavery
> aside, what other 'good things' out of the west were products of
> kirastanism?
You want a list? I will give a list in the following section. First,
the concept of belonging to a religion is not the same with
Christianity as in Hinduism or in other religions. A person born to
Christian parents does not automatically become a Christian. Granted
that person has a greater chance to get exposed to Christian beliefs
and may even practice a sort of Christianity by imitation. It seems
that lot of “intellectuals” in India and many expatriates from India
assume that all people belong to one religion or another. This is not
true. Majority of the Europeans these days are irreligious. A
significant proportion among them proudly proclaims that they are
atheists. So branding all Europeans as Christians and assuming all
the wrong doings that the west engaged in the past and also in modern
times as Christian activities are not correct. May be this statement
is not palpable to the protégés of RSS.
Here is a list of contributions that Christians made over the
centuries. Subtract those contributions and guess which direction the
human progress would have taken!
1. Whose tireless efforts and dedication were behind the retrieval
of the classical knowledge that was destroyed when the Barbarians
overran the Roman empire and spread chaos throughout the continent.
Christian monks working from monasteries! Their sincere work gave a
base for the growth of science and for establishing Universities in
Europe in the medieval era. We owe much to those monks for
preserving the classical Greek knowledge that we are fond of quoting.
2. Who established institutions of higher learning in the west? Even
though you despise Christianity and Christians so much, did you know
that this much “hated” and “despised” Christians were instrumental in
bringing education to common man. Which are those Institutions? Even
in India their contribution in this field is far out of proportion to
their low number. I will give a partial list of the institutions of
higher learning and research that were the result of Christian
effort. Some were established as early as 12th century: Bologna and
Paris (12th century), Oxford and Cambridge (13th century) followed by
universities in Rome, Naples, Salamanca , Seville, Prague, Vienna,
Cologne and Heidelberg. Although they were affiliated with the church
they were independently administered.
3. The earliest universities and colleges of America such as Harvard,
Yale, Princeton, Northwestern, Dartmouth Western, College of William
and Mary began as Christian institutions. Did you know the motto of
Harvard was “For Christ and His Church”. Founding of the relatively
new University of Stanford was motivated by Christian charity and
philanthropy.
4. A Franciscan bishop, Robert Grosseteste, was the first chancellor
of Oxford University. He proposed that knowledge be accumulated
through an inductive experimental method.
5.Francis Bacon, a devout Christian, used the inductive method to
record experimental outcomes. He argued that through God-given power
of discovery man could fulfill his divine destiny.
6.John Owen a theologian, pastor and vice chancellor of the Oxford
reformed and reorganized the university and set the path that the
university was to take in later years.
7.Overwhelming majority of professional scientists from the late
Middle ages on (the starting point) were Christians and they viewed
their work as fulfillment of Christian objectives.
8.Here is a partial list of very eminent Christian scientists: The
list include Copernicus, Kepler, Galileo, Brahe, Descartes, Boyle,
Newton, Leibniz, Gassendi, Pascal, Mersene, Cuvier, Harvey, Dalton,
Faraday, Herschel, Joule, Lyell, Lavoisier, Preastly, Kelvin, Ohm,
Ampere, Steno, Pasteur, Maxwell, Plank, Mendel. Where would be modern
science without these men? All these men of science saw their
scientific vocation in distinctively Christian terms.
9.The Belgian astronomer, Georges Lemaitre, who first proposed the
“Big Bang” theory of the universe was a priest. Mendal father of the
genetics was a Christian monk.
10.Newton, the greatest scientist of all time, viewed his discoveries
as showing the creative genius of God’s handiwork in nature.
11.Success of Kepler and many other scientists lead to the surprising
recognition that religious motivation can be instrumental in
breakthrough discoveries.
12.What have been the contributions of Christians in India? Although
they constitute only 2.6 % of the population their contribution to the
society in the fields of education and healthcare has been phenomenal.
Some of the worst critics of Christianity and Christians in India
have been the products of institutions that were started by
Christians.
13. Christians operate more than 260 institutions of higher learning
in India. Surprisingly 184 of them are in the four southern states.
Can it be a coincidence that the most backward states in India are
those where the number of Christian educational institutions are
fewer? (eg. Bihar, Orissa, Utter Pradesh, Madhya Pradesh)
>
> > When you deal with this topic why do you limit the discussion to the
> > so-called “wrong doings by Christians”? Wars, subjugation,
> > occupation, enslavement have been part of human history from time
> > immemorial. While the victors justified their actions, the vanquished
> > cried out against the injustice, cruelty, lack of freedom etc. I
> > recommend the following book, if you have not already read it, to get
> > a comprehensive view of the spreading of humanity across the globe,
> > development of languages, cultures, religions, and how we humans
> > evolved from the prehistoric times to what we are today. The book is
> > “Guns, Germs and Steel” by Jared Diamond.
>
> Guns, Germs and Steel should be modified to: Guns, Germs and Steel in
> the service of Race and Religion.
> Jared Diamond talks of the 'how' of colonialism. The 'why' was
> supplied by a religion which justified greed motivated by intolerance,
> and fueled by racism - so much racism, in fact, that even Jesus is
> shown as blue-eyed white rather than what an average carpenter in the
> middle east would look like (if Jesus existed, that is).
So much for the inductive reasoning! The book mentioned above covered
a period of at least 40,000 years. In your opinion the first 38, 000
years dealt with only “how” part of the question and answer to the
“why” part of the question was delayed and provided by Christian
colonialists. If you had read the book you would have realized a
good part of the book dealt with “colonization” and not colonialism.
The basic premise of any new venture is to ask “why” first before
finding a way to “how”.
Your rambling of clichés from RSS manuals is discrediting you and all
those who do the same.
Did you see Jesus to know what the colour of his eyes was. You are
finding racism even in artists’ way depicting characters whom no
contemporaries (to the artists) have seen.
>
> > > Isn't your perversity a clear example of the dementia that
> > > Christianity can produce?- Hide quoted text -
>
> > Christianity-influenced (induced) “perversity” produced many good
> > things of which others like you are partakers. Who is not having an
> > open mind, you or me?
>
> Christianity induced NOTHING productive. NOTHING at all.
If you are honest, I have serious doubt that you are, give an
explanation for the discoveries made by the Christian scientists, the
institutions they established, the judicial system that they evolved,
the democratic system they nurtured.
>
> Greco-Roman ideas were influence by their polytheism / paganism.
> Italian Renaissance was anti-Christianity in its ambitions.
Oh, yea! As I mentioned in the beginning through whose efforts the
Greek and Roman ideas were preserved. All civilizations made
significant contributions to human understanding and progress. Ideas
originated in polytheistic and pagan societies do not override those
which came after. You may not like it, but you are availing of the
fruits of actions of Christians and reveling in them
>
> HOW can Kirastanism induce anything right when it believes that the
> Earth is 6000 years old?
>
> Remember Galileo?- Hide quoted text -
Why don’t you give a comprehensive treatise on Galileo. Also illumine
the readers about various inquisitions. This will take some
preparation and reading. Repeating the much used propaganda materials
and regurgitating it again and again has not brought out “the whole
truth”
kuri...@gmail.com
>
> > HOW can Kirastanism induce anything right when it believes that the
> > Earth is 6000 years old?
Some people believe that a monkey can fly, and lift a mountain and fly
back. Some people believe that Rama’s consort Sita was ploughed out
of earth. Some people cannot distinguish between reality and
mythology. Christians do not teach that the earth is only 6000 years
old. There are cults who teach all kinds of myths and old wives’
tales. There are a few who claim that they are gods. There is also
a god-man producing by slight of hand Omega watches, and claim that he
actually created them. He can create only those things that have been
invented. We wonder why he does not produce a celestial chronometer or
reveal a small part of the nature’s yet undiscovered mystery. More
people in India are fooled by such claims than anywhere else.
(The above part as a response to the sarcastic quip was inadvertently
omitted in my previous post. Here I post it to make the reply
complete.)
tbj....@yahoo.com
doesn't look like an outright idiot, and is merely wrong.
Blah, blah, blah. Crap not worth replying to.
> > Colonialism was aided immensely by the missionaries who defended the
> > colonization process as 'God's work', just as they are doing nowadays
> > in India.
>
> Instead of basing your arguments on RSS propaganda manuals why don’t
> come up with historical evidence for what you said. If you read the
> history of the British colonization (initially East India Company) of
> India they (the British) were totally against letting missionaries
> come over and establish themselves in any part of the colony they
> controlled. Why did they object? They did not want the moralizing
> lectures from this “nuisance group” and they were afraid this
> “nuisance group” may expose their evil deeds and exploitation of the
> natives to the people “back home”. So much for missionaries aiding
> colonialism. To refresh your memory Christianity was well rooted and
> thriving in Indian soil long before the colonialists came, and that
> did not happen without movement of the people and not without
> proclaiming message of their faith. Buddhism spread across the
> subcontinent and beyond the same way.
Blah, blah, blah. More crap from Kurian.
The Bible and the Third World
http://books.google.co.in/books?id=OO-vuc2LBhUC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_summary_r&cad=0#PPA34,M1
What they don't tell you about Christianity
http://freetruth.50webs.org/Index.htm
> > Putting the Bible into printed text (with the arrival of
> > printing press) gave the kirastanis the delusion that somehow 'God's
> > word' had become permanent and anyone holding the printed word was
> > somehow 'an agent of good' even if they were aiding genocides. That
> > delusion is resurfacing in the form of evangelism today.
>
> This is nothing but malicious nonsense. Whether you like it or not,
> printing and making books available to common man (although most of
> them were still illiterate) was a life altering event for individuals
> and for the entire humanity. Treating people equally and making all
> things available to all may not be part of all ideologies and all
> religions. Some even went to the extent of denying the people a chance
> to read, learn and understand their own religions (or the religion
> they thought they belonged). This was accomplished by denying them
> any kind of education.
Blah, blah, blah. Does Kurian write anything other than nonsense?
http://freetruth.50webs.org/Index.htm
> Only those who have devoted considerable amount of time in reading
> and studying must comment on religious books especially books of other
> religions. To a Hindu Gita and Vedas are the ultimate sources of
> wisdom, to a Muslim the Koran is the infallible word of God, to a
> Christian the Bible contains all he needs to know about God’s purpose,
> the reason for existence of everything and salvation. We wish that
> every adherent of every religion is faithful to his beliefs, and will
> show by example how one can benefit by such practices. To Christians
> this includes proclaiming their faith and the reasons for their faith
> to the entire humanity. The most rapid and very fervent embracing of
> Christianity occurred when the converts were socially backward and
> economically and culturally very weak. That happened in the first 4
> centuries. The initiation and spread of Christianity in India also
> occurred during the same time.
Blah, blah, blah. Utter nonsense from a blind believer in monotheist
propaganda.
Read how Christianity spread since its inception
http://freetruth.50webs.org/Index.htm
> That does not mean one may agree and comply with alternate belief
> systems. Some do treat disagreements as a sure sign of hatred and
> intolerance. Such an attitude points only to immaturity at best,
> dangerous indoctrination at worst. Proclaiming one’s views and
> beliefs may sometimes result in negation (exclusion) of alternate
> views. I wish the rabid anti-Christians in this newsgroup will
> acknowledge this and those who indulge in maligning other faiths and
> beliefs will refrain from it. Some may think that the best defense is
> a good offence. Actually offense rooted in falsehood, impure motive,
> inaccurate and distorted historical facts will only backfire.
That's a laugh.
How come you never stood up for Hindus in the Indian northeast who
have been terrorized by Christian militants supported by rich, western
churches, for decades?
Does your 'humanity' only come forth when the evil inside Christianity
is pointed out?
http://freetruth.50webs.org/Index.htm
> > The content
> > of the texts were never put under scrutiny, but printed books were a
> > novelty that awed the natives of many places. Colonialism used
> > Biblical justifications to defend the greed and racism of the
> > Europeans. Just as Islam did earlier using the Koran.
>
> Those who are not exposed to the teachings of Christianity may think
> that you are telling the truth. What are the Biblical justification
> used to defend greed and racism? Selfish people, all throughout
> history used whatever they can get, including misinterpreting
> religious books, to further their ends. Studying or even hearing
> Vedas by lower class (castes) was forbidden and the prescribed
> penalties for violation were very severe. Please tell whether or not
> such advocacy was part of Hindu religion.
Read it all:
http://freetruth.50webs.org/Index.htm
Show us where any of the documentary evidence in this site is
invalid.
>
>
> > This is the evil you are defending in its assault on Hinduism:
>
> This is a typical example of using perverted offence as a means of
> defense.
> You are not making yourself clear. What is the evil? Christianity?
> Or the purported Biblical justifications? You didn’t read the book
> that I suggested last time, did you?
>
Read:
http://freetruth.50webs.org/Index.htm
> > > But that line of argument has been the mainstay for many on this
> > > newsgroup. You and many others who hold similar views assume that the
> > > root cause of all wrongs done by the west is their religion, namely
> > > Christianity. However you are not prepared to concede that their
> > > faiths and beliefs have anything to do with many good things they have
> > > done.
>
> > Such as? Inquisitions, colonialism, genocides, racism and slavery
> > aside, what other 'good things' out of the west were products of
> > kirastanism?
>
> You want a list? I will give a list in the following section. First,
> the concept of belonging to a religion is not the same with
> Christianity as in Hinduism or in other religions. A person born to
> Christian parents does not automatically become a Christian. Granted
Bull. The person never GETS a chance to choose. Baptism is done while
the newborn can't even sit upright.
Anyway, would even a 10 year old understand the poison in the texts of
the monotheists when their propaganda is so massive and pervasive?
Would a 20 year old? 30?
> that person has a greater chance to get exposed to Christian beliefs
> and may even practice a sort of Christianity by imitation. It seems
> that lot of “intellectuals” in India and many expatriates from India
> assume that all people belong to one religion or another. This is not
> true. Majority of the Europeans these days are irreligious. A
They got wise and left Christian dogma behind. But not all of them. A
lot of them still fund churches whose explicit purpose is to convert
the people of Asia to the snake-oil of Christianity.
> significant proportion among them proudly proclaims that they are
> atheists. So branding all Europeans as Christians and assuming all
> the wrong doings that the west engaged in the past and also in modern
> times as Christian activities are not correct. May be this statement
> is not palpable to the protégés of RSS.
WHO is branding all Europeans as Christians?
I am pointing out the ridiculous and the malicious in Christianity
(and Islam).
I have nothing but pity for those who can't see through the fog of
rhetoric in the texts of the monotheists.
And I have great hostility towards those who convert others to believe
in the biblical (or Islamic) superstitions.
> Here is a list of contributions that Christians made over the
> centuries. Subtract those contributions and guess which direction the
> human progress would have taken!
>
> 1. Whose tireless efforts and dedication were behind the retrieval
> of the classical knowledge that was destroyed when the Barbarians
> overran the Roman empire and spread chaos throughout the continent.
> Christian monks working from monasteries! Their sincere work gave a
> base for the growth of science and for establishing Universities in
> Europe in the medieval era. We owe much to those monks for
> preserving the classical Greek knowledge that we are fond of quoting.
Not true at all. The Arabs preserved a lot of them. The Christian
monks HATED the pagan Roman empire.
http://freetruth.50webs.org/Index.htm
http://www.bandoli.no/tolerance.htm
[
the Christians haven’t obviously been completely convinced of this, so
they felt it necessary to fight other religions and believers with raw
violence. Just to be on the safe side and maybe since Jehovah himself
had stopped his direct intervening scheme, wiping off the unbelievers
with his fabulous divine locust-swarms, plague, brimstone and
lightning techniques several centuries ago. From the fourth century
and forward, the now mighty Christian Church, used harsh measures to
suppress other faiths.
With pious enthusiasm the ancient pagan temples, works of art and
libraries were destroyed, and trampled by rampant Christians in a
frenzied religious demolition craze. Under the command of bishops and
abbots Christian monks were often the most active. The Greek called
them “swinish black-cloths”, because “they looked like men but lived
like pigs”. A contemporary writer tells us “armed with clubs or stones
and swords they ran to the temples, some without these weapons only
with their bare hands and feet” (Libanios “Pro temples” 389 AD). As
soon as they had destroyed one temple, they dashed away to the next.
They toppled over walls, smashed idols, statues and art-objects and
altars, and stole the temples wealth for themselves.
Bishop Theophilius of Alexandria participated personally in levelling
pagan temples and altars. This busy bishop is personally credited with
destroying a huge statue of Sarapis with an axe in 391 AD, a statue
made by the great Athenian artist Bryaxis. The Christian demolition
craze destroyed a huge parts of antiquity’s religious artworks and
written texts. Numerous priests and bishops made a name and a career
for themselves as temple-destroyers. A bishop named Marcellus
distinguished himself in this area, he demolished among other things
the big Zeus temple in Apameia. Among the ravaging Christians it soon
became popular to gather souvenirs and trophies from the holy pagan
places they levelled. Bishop Theophilius organised boisterous mocking-
processions with these trophies through the streets of Alexandria.
Some were more drastic than others. Particularly in the eastern
provinces of the Roman Empire, pagans, priests and priestessses were
exiled or massacred during the temple destructions, or chained to the
ruins and left to starve to death. The East Roman Emperor Theodosius 2
(401-450) executed even children for playing with pieces of a broken
pagan statue. An early Church historian tells us that Theodosius 2
“exceeded everyone with his kindness and humanity”. Right!
Theodosius 2 became emperor in the age of seven, and he was thoroughly
indoctrinated by the priests and became a very effective instrument
for the Church. He removed all non-Christians from official positions,
and introduced in 434 the death penalty for the practice of all pagan
religions. The reason given for this was, funny enough, all the
natural disasters the pagan gods caused(!).
]
> 2. Who established institutions of higher learning in the west? Even
> though you despise Christianity and Christians so much, did you know
> that this much “hated” and “despised” Christians were instrumental in
> bringing education to common man. Which are those Institutions? Even
> in India their contribution in this field is far out of proportion to
> their low number. I will give a partial list of the institutions of
> higher learning and research that were the result of Christian
> effort. Some were established as early as 12th century: Bologna and
> Paris (12th century), Oxford and Cambridge (13th century) followed by
> universities in Rome, Naples, Salamanca , Seville, Prague, Vienna,
> Cologne and Heidelberg. Although they were affiliated with the church
> they were independently administered.
The religious orders settled in Oxford in the mid-13th century and
started boarding houses for students. Oxford University had already
been a teaching center for many decades by then. What were the
contributions of Oxford and others before the Renaissance brought
forth the clarity of the Greco-Roman pagan cultures?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Oxford
BTW, Indian universities were older than any of the Christian Europe.
> 3. The earliest universities and colleges of America such as Harvard,
> Yale, Princeton, Northwestern, Dartmouth Western, College of William
> and Mary began as Christian institutions. Did you know the motto of
> Harvard was “For Christ and His Church”. Founding of the relatively
> new University of Stanford was motivated by Christian charity and
> philanthropy.
Yale traces its beginnings to "An Act for Liberty to Erect a
Collegiate School" passed by the General Court of the Colony of
Connecticut and dated October 9, 1701.
Harvard College was established in 1636 by vote of the Great and
General Court of the Massachusetts Bay Colony.
(Founded 16 years after the Pilgrims landed in Plymouth and wiped out
the Native Americans. Strange, if you consider that the Pilgrims were
fleeing religious persecution in Christian Europe.)
I have been to some of these campuses. Nice buildings and lawns. But
the only good teachers were non-Christian. Coincidence?
> 4. A Franciscan bishop, Robert Grosseteste, was the first chancellor
> of Oxford University. He proposed that knowledge be accumulated
> through an inductive experimental method.
Evidence?
Did anything come out of Oxford until the pagan Greek and Roman ideas
were accepted again after the Reformation, in defiance of Christian
teachings?
> 5.Francis Bacon, a devout Christian, used the inductive method to
> record experimental outcomes. He argued that through God-given power
> of discovery man could fulfill his divine destiny.
But the Christian god DID NOT give the 'power of discovery' to
mankind. The Christian god PUNISHED Adam for tasting the fruit of
knowledge! Don't bend yourself into knots now.
To a true Christian, KNOWLEDGE IS THE GIFT OF SATAN, and not of god.
The Bringer of Light is Lucifer, not Yahweh.
> 6.John Owen a theologian, pastor and vice chancellor of the Oxford
> reformed and reorganized the university and set the path that the
> university was to take in later years.
What a cliched statement. What exactly did he do? Evidence, please.
Anyway, the education system in Oxford is inspired by the methods of
the pagan Aristotle, not by Jesus or Paul.
> 7.Overwhelming majority of professional scientists from the late
> Middle ages on (the starting point) were Christians and they viewed
> their work as fulfillment of Christian objectives.
Evidence, please.
Why was Europe in the Dark Ages until the anti-Christian Renaissance
came along and inspired people to look at the pagan Greece and Rome
for ideas rather than the Bible?
> 8.Here is a partial list of very eminent Christian scientists: The
> list include Copernicus, Kepler, Galileo, Brahe, Descartes, Boyle,
> Newton, Leibniz, Gassendi, Pascal, Mersene, Cuvier, Harvey, Dalton,
> Faraday, Herschel, Joule, Lyell, Lavoisier, Preastly, Kelvin, Ohm,
> Ampere, Steno, Pasteur, Maxwell, Plank, Mendel. Where would be modern
> science without these men? All these men of science saw their
> scientific vocation in distinctively Christian terms.
ROTFL. Copernicus and Galileo? The people that the Church wanted to
hang for blasphemy against the Bible? Newton, who practiced alchemy?
They practiced pagan methods. There was nothing Christian about
science or mathematics. What is Christian comes from the Bible. What
is rational comes from the non-monotheist faiths of this world.
Nothing rational comes from the Bible.
It is obvious that you wish to defend one lie with a bigger lie. How
Christian, indeed.
> 9.The Belgian astronomer, Georges Lemaitre, who first proposed the
> “Big Bang” theory of the universe was a priest. Mendal father of the
> genetics was a Christian monk.
And familiarity with the superstition in the Bible made them look
elsewhere for the truth.
> 10.Newton, the greatest scientist of all time, viewed his discoveries
> as showing the creative genius of God’s handiwork in nature.
Genius and madness exist side by side in most radical minds. Newton
also wanted to convert lead into gold. Would that mean that alchemy is
valid? Wrong ideas often lead to new discoveries. That does not
legitimise the wrong ideas. Without the pagan ideas of old, nobody in
Europe would have had a new idea by themselves if the were left to
think about Christianity only.
> 11.Success of Kepler and many other scientists lead to the surprising
> recognition that religious motivation can be instrumental in
> breakthrough discoveries.
Religious, yes. Christian, no. By Christian I mean anything that
derives inspiration from the Bible, and not from ancient Greece or
Rome.
> 12.What have been the contributions of Christians in India? Although
> they constitute only 2.6 % of the population their contribution to the
> society in the fields of education and healthcare has been phenomenal.
> Some of the worst critics of Christianity and Christians in India
> have been the products of institutions that were started by
> Christians.
Evidence?
> 13. Christians operate more than 260 institutions of higher learning
> in India. Surprisingly 184 of them are in the four southern states.
> Can it be a coincidence that the most backward states in India are
> those where the number of Christian educational institutions are
> fewer? (eg. Bihar, Orissa, Utter Pradesh, Madhya Pradesh)
On the contrary, the richest states of India have the fewest Christian
institutions per capita. U.P has TONS of them. As does Orissa.
Wrong and irrelevant.
http://freetruth.50webs.org/A4e.htm
> Your rambling of clichés from RSS manuals is discrediting you and all
> those who do the same.
What cliches? The only one using cliches here is you. And you don't
even realize it. The Bible made pulp of your mind already?
> Did you see Jesus to know what the colour of his eyes was. You are
> finding racism even in artists’ way depicting characters whom no
> contemporaries (to the artists) have seen.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/research/1282186.html
>
>
> > > > Isn't your perversity a clear example of the dementia that
> > > > Christianity can produce?- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > Christianity-influenced (induced) “perversity” produced many good
> > > things of which others like you are partakers. Who is not having an
> > > open mind, you or me?
>
> > Christianity induced NOTHING productive. NOTHING at all.
>
> If you are honest, I have serious doubt that you are, give an
> explanation for the discoveries made by the Christian scientists, the
> institutions they established, the judicial system that they evolved,
> the democratic system they nurtured.
>
There is NO such thing as a 'Christian scientist'. Knowledge,
according to the Bible, is the gift of Satan which brought about
punishment by god. Christianity has NOTHING to do with science.
Nothing!
>
> > Greco-Roman ideas were influence by their polytheism / paganism.
> > Italian Renaissance was anti-Christianity in its ambitions.
>
> Oh, yea! As I mentioned in the beginning through whose efforts the
> Greek and Roman ideas were preserved. All civilizations made
> significant contributions to human understanding and progress. Ideas
> originated in polytheistic and pagan societies do not override those
> which came after. You may not like it, but you are availing of the
> fruits of actions of Christians and reveling in them
Repeating a lie doesn't make it true.
http://www.bandoli.no/tolerance.htm
Christians hated the Roman Empire before Constantine.
>
> > HOW can Kirastanism induce anything right when it believes that the
> > Earth is 6000 years old?
>
> > Remember Galileo?- Hide quoted text -
>
> Why don’t you give a comprehensive treatise on Galileo. Also illumine
> the readers about various inquisitions.
One website is sufficient.
http://freetruth.50webs.org/Index.htm
Or two:
tbj....@yahoo.com
LOL. Can't give a straight answer, can you? WHAT, then, is the 'son of
god', since you have assumed the role of the interpreter of Jesus?
The part where you assume that I "charge that Christians are
dogmatic". It is Christianity that is dogmatic, and its followers are
merely victims of delusions indoctrinated into them.
> Would you consider the belief that a certain "god" was born at a
> specific spot, without any evidence for it, is an essential part of your
> faith to be dogmatic? Would you consider the belief that a massive
> flying monkey was capable of carrying mountains to be dogmatic? Would
> you say that the belief that the excreta of cows is divinely healthy is
> dogmatic?
Dogma is never about attributes of a god, but the 'directions
received' from the god. Your understanding of religions is quite
shallow. Dogma is not a problem until it 'tells people what to do'.
Hinduism puts good and bad in context and lets people draw their own
conclusions. Christianity dictates behaviour of its adherents, even to
the extent of permitting genocides under the name of its god.
> >>> But Hinduism is not like Christianity, is it? Hinduism is an evolving
> >>> philosophy while Christianity is a fixed dogma.
> >> One would be hard put to see that in reality. Christian-dominated
> >> countries are becoming ever more liberal, while most other countries are
> >> moving in the opposite direction. As for India, while it is generally
> >> moving in a liberal direction, that direction is sought to be reversed
> >> by dogmatic saffron organizations like the RSS and VHP, with the support
> >> of people like you.
>
> > 'Reversed' how? By stopping the predation upon Hindus and Hinduism?
>
> By thrusting the country back into a primitive theocracy. By stifling
> progressive Hindus who want to reform Hinduism. By promoting the
> dogmatic beliefs I referred to above.
'Back into a primitive theocracy'? Now, WHAT period of history would
you be talking of here? Do not confuse Indian history with the dark
ages of Europe under Christianity. Your arguments are worse than
stupid. You have NO idea what you are talking about.
> >> You say "Hinduism is an evolving philosophy". Perhaps you can point out
> >> examples from the RSS or VHP literature?
>
> >> You still won't cop to your belief in creationism?
>
> > I believe in the freedom to believe. You seem to believe in the
> > dogmatic propaganda of monotheists.
>
> You _don't_ believe in the freedom to believe. If you did, you would
> have no objection to Hindus being exposed to alternative theologies(or
> philosophies) for them to freely choose what they would believe in. You
> would not object to reformist Hindus who don't have the dogmatic beliefs
> that you do.
If I oppose the presence of fake medicines in the shelves of
drugstores, is that somehow 'restricting the choice' of people in
choosing their medicines? Monotheisms are poisons because they spread
intolerance and superstition. No sane mind would let monotheists use
the power of money to spread at the expense of the far more rational
and humane Dharmas.
> Do you have any examples of evolving Hindu philosophy from the RSS or VHP?
Fool, Hindus don't take their philosophy from organisations, unlike
your western monotheist and supremacist ideologies. RSS is a social
and cultural organisation. VHP is an organisation to prevent predation
upon vulnerable Hindus by intolerant ideologies of the west and the
middle-east.
tbj....@yahoo.com
So you admit that Jesus was exactly like the Sathya Sai Baba?
Well then, we are agreed that the Bible is mere superstition.
And you must therefore agree that its spread is harmful to the human
condition.
Wanderer
"Son of god" is not "god". I wrote that Jesus was not a god. You
responded with "But Jesus supposedly claimed to be the son of god".
Apparently, you are under some confusion as to the difference.
If Christianity is dogmatic, and its followers are not, what is your
problem? Actually, there is Christian dogma, and there are dogmatic
Christians. Christianity cannot be dogmatic, since it cannot follow itself.
Similarly, there is Hindu dogma, as in Manu's laws, various religious
texts relating to purification etc., and there are dogmatic Hindus, such
as Togadia et al. Would you say that followers of Hinduism are merely
victims of delusions indoctrinated into them?
>> Would you consider the belief that a certain "god" was born at a
>> specific spot, without any evidence for it, is an essential part of your
>> faith to be dogmatic? Would you consider the belief that a massive
>> flying monkey was capable of carrying mountains to be dogmatic? Would
>> you say that the belief that the excreta of cows is divinely healthy is
>> dogmatic?
>
> Dogma is never about attributes of a god, but the 'directions
> received' from the god. Your understanding of religions is quite
> shallow. Dogma is not a problem until it 'tells people what to do'.
Your understanding of the term "dogma" is lacking. Dogma includes "a
settled or established opinion, belief, or principle". If one such
settled belief is that of a mountain-carrying armor-plated flying
monkey, that is dogma.
> Hinduism puts good and bad in context and lets people draw their own
> conclusions. Christianity dictates behaviour of its adherents, even to
> the extent of permitting genocides under the name of its god.
Perhaps you would be so kind to point out where Christianity permits
genocides "under the name of its god"? And while you are at it, can you
explain Manu X?
>>>>> But Hinduism is not like Christianity, is it? Hinduism is an evolving
>>>>> philosophy while Christianity is a fixed dogma.
>>>> One would be hard put to see that in reality. Christian-dominated
>>>> countries are becoming ever more liberal, while most other countries are
>>>> moving in the opposite direction. As for India, while it is generally
>>>> moving in a liberal direction, that direction is sought to be reversed
>>>> by dogmatic saffron organizations like the RSS and VHP, with the support
>>>> of people like you.
>>> 'Reversed' how? By stopping the predation upon Hindus and Hinduism?
>> By thrusting the country back into a primitive theocracy. By stifling
>> progressive Hindus who want to reform Hinduism. By promoting the
>> dogmatic beliefs I referred to above.
>
> 'Back into a primitive theocracy'? Now, WHAT period of history would
> you be talking of here? Do not confuse Indian history with the dark
> ages of Europe under Christianity. Your arguments are worse than
> stupid. You have NO idea what you are talking about.
I have a far, far better idea than you do. I would be the first to admit
that Europe lived under primitive theocracies, both before and after the
beginning of the Christian era. But nobody in Europe is advocating a
return to such a system, unlike the saffron shitheads.
>>>> You say "Hinduism is an evolving philosophy". Perhaps you can point out
>>>> examples from the RSS or VHP literature?
>>>> You still won't cop to your belief in creationism?
>>> I believe in the freedom to believe. You seem to believe in the
>>> dogmatic propaganda of monotheists.
>> You _don't_ believe in the freedom to believe. If you did, you would
>> have no objection to Hindus being exposed to alternative theologies(or
>> philosophies) for them to freely choose what they would believe in. You
>> would not object to reformist Hindus who don't have the dogmatic beliefs
>> that you do.
>
> If I oppose the presence of fake medicines in the shelves of
> drugstores, is that somehow 'restricting the choice' of people in
> choosing their medicines?
And you appoint yourself the arbiter of what may be considered fake and
what is authentic? Insofar as you are no more intelligent when it comes
to religion than the least literate and "civilized" person, you may not
judge the appropriateness of the availability of a given religious
philosophy to any person. Or, indeed, if the ideas of communism or
atheism are to be explained to them.
> Monotheisms are poisons because they spread
> intolerance and superstition. No sane mind would let monotheists use
> the power of money to spread at the expense of the far more rational
> and humane Dharmas.
Unfortunately for you, I have decades of experience of "humane dharma"
in India, and I find it to be far from rational. One would be extremely
hard put to find a general sense of the humane in India. Except,
perhaps, when it comes to cows.
>> Do you have any examples of evolving Hindu philosophy from the RSS or VHP?
>
> Fool, Hindus don't take their philosophy from organisations, unlike
> your western monotheist and supremacist ideologies. RSS is a social
> and cultural organisation. VHP is an organisation to prevent predation
> upon vulnerable Hindus by intolerant ideologies of the west and the
> middle-east.
Just like the typical saffronite, you don't even know the functions of
your organizations. Nonetheless, since you are such an ardent
saffronite, I asked for examples of evolving Hindu philosophy from the
organizations that claim to rally Hindus around themselves. Frankly,
they don't have any philosophers worth a shit, and you know it.
karthika
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
We do not need a RSS to find the crimes of British and their Church
crimes. Are you telling that Anglican church was not allowed in India
while British queen is the president of the Church?
Are you farting or fooling here you idiot?
karthika
>
> - Show quoted text -
Oh yeah
Jesus walked on the water!
Jesus made blind guys to see!
Jesus made dumbs to speak!
Many more idiotic stories your Bible talk. How is that? Are you
denying or believeing them?
karthika
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
You are a shit and never know much about anything about Hindu
Philosophy or Hindus. You, yourself a converted cooli boy of the
Church.
You know nothing about the history of your own catholic church which
killed thousands of hindus in Goa.
You cried that Tamil Royals of sri lanka. Did ever visit museum of
Lisbon? Portugeuse brought Catholic Religion to you!
Better learn instead of barking your anti-Hindu propaganda while
living as a parasite in India.
kuri...@gmail.com
>
> > You want a list? I will give a list in the following section. First,
> > the concept of belonging to a religion is not the same with
> > Christianity as in Hinduism or in other religions. A person born to
> > Christian parents does not automatically become a Christian. Granted
> > that person has a greater chance to get exposed to Christian beliefs
> > and may even practice a sort of Christianity by imitation. It seems
> > that lot of “intellectuals” in India and many expatriates from India
> > assume that all people belong to one religion or another. This is not
> > true. Majority of the Europeans these days are irreligious. A
> > significant proportion among them proudly proclaims that they are
> > atheists. So branding all Europeans as Christians and assuming all
> > the wrong doings ...
>
> > read more »- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> We do not need a RSS to find the crimes of British and their Church
> crimes. Are you telling that Anglican church was not allowed in India
> while British queen is the president of the Church?
>
> Are you farting or fooling here you idiot?
You can't keep anything in its context. Go and study the history and
then comment. Make sure that the history you read is not RSS
manuals. Give details of the Church crimes in India. How many
Christians belonging to the denomination of Anglicans are there in
India? So let us keep this discussion at an intellectual level. That
would be aided considerably if you listen and not keep farting on the
news groups.
karthika
>
> - Show quoted text -
hahaha
You did not answer my concerns. I am not attached to the census
department of India to give you the number of Anglicans. But later all
Christian denominations are backing British even today!
But you take the Hindu stories in its context. Intelectual level? I
never heard it from any CHURCH because they always bark against
anything Intelectual! You think farting of your Criminal Christianity
is something INTELECTUAL.
I dont know the numbers because your Criminal Christians never keep
records of their Hindu victims.
I can mention few famous Hindus. Veera Pandia Katta Bomman and his
supporters of Panchalan kurichi of Tamil Nadu. Lynching Hindus was a
British practice. This was LYNCHING was followed by American
Christians till 1930 and they killed BLACKS.
The people of Mapla uprising against the British criminals. I hope a
Kunchali and his people.
Thousands of Hindus at the catholic inquisition at GOA. I do not know
the number of Indian Hindu victims but 2665 ( a rough recollection
from the families and the actual numeber be more) Hindu Sri Lankans
were killed there including the Tamil Royal family of Jaffna, Sri
lanka.
Wanderer
> Oh yeah
> Jesus walked on the water!
> Jesus made blind guys to see!
> Jesus made dumbs to speak!
>
> Many more idiotic stories your Bible talk. How is that? Are you
> denying or believeing them?
Are you denying or believing that:
The earth is held up by an elephant standing on the back of a turtle.
The world was made out of water and butter.
That a flying monkey carried a mountain range in his arms.
That a deer drinking water in a stream drank the semen of a sage and
gave birth to human babies.
There are fairy tales in every religion. But, as a certified Tamil RSS
coolie thoti from Kandy living off his wife's earnings doing double-duty
as a nurse at Toronto General, you don't have the intelligence to
realize that.
Wanderer
> We do not need a RSS to find the crimes of British and their Church
> crimes. Are you telling that Anglican church was not allowed in India
> while British queen is the president of the Church?
What crimes did the British Church commit in India, you half-wit
illegitimate spawn of RSS?
You have no evidence to support your fartings anywhere! You are a waste
product of Tamil Eelam. Dont cry for India which is not your country.
You have no idea of anything.
You are a Marxist asshole and a liar! You cry in different tunes every
time. Your Communist Criminal mind is not accepting the truth. You post
lies and lies again and again without any evidence. You spread your hate
propaganda of your RSS. You always bark and never come with truths! I
think you promote child molesting. So, better shutup!
You are a paid asshole from the RSS and now you are on the run! Now you
are crying like a stoned dog! If you dont like Christians you can go to
Sri Lanka but they dont welcome you because your ass is BLACK! Dont fart
you RSS ass! hahahahaha
Wanderer
> You are a shit and never know much about anything about Hindu
> Philosophy or Hindus. You, yourself a converted cooli boy of the
> Church.
I've never converted to Christianity. If I did, at least I could take
the credit for having examined my available options and decided on what
would be best for me. Unlike you, a marxist RSS thoti refugee from Tamil
Eelam who does not know the difference between "hope" and "think".
> You know nothing about the history of your own catholic church which
> killed thousands of hindus in Goa.
Show me the proof that "thousands of hindus" were killed in Goa, you
incredibly dull-witted cretin. I have shown you the available evidence
which indicates that fewer than 100 people(who were not Hindus) were
killed over nearly 300 years of Portuguese rule.
> You cried that Tamil Royals of sri lanka.
I cried what? You dolt, you need to read the Mahavamsa, which chronicles
the conflict between Hindu Tamils and Buddhist Sinhalese over many
centuries. The repeated destruction of Anuradhapura and Madurai is a
testament to the cruelty of religion-inspired bloodthirst, which
predates Islamic and Christian influence in the sub-continent.
> Did ever visit museum of
> Lisbon?
Which one? Have you ever visited Lisbon, you fudge-packing RSS moron?
> Portugeuse brought Catholic Religion to you!
Not to me, they didn't.
> Better learn instead of barking your anti-Hindu propaganda while
> living as a parasite in India.
I don't live in India. But _you_ do live in Canada, among white
Christians you repeatedly proclaim your hatred for, and you have
expressed the desire to kill white Christians. So stop barking your RSS
propaganda while your wife works double shifts at Toronto General.
uNmaiviLambi
> karthikass <mud...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> Are you denying or believing that:
> The earth is held up by an elephant standing on the back of a turtle.
> The world was made out of water and butter.
> That a flying monkey carried a mountain range in his arms.
> That a deer drinking water in a stream drank the semen of a sage and
> gave birth to human babies.
>
> There are fairy tales in every religion.
There are beliefs in many so called religions. Hindus accept many
beliefs. Many beliefs are accepted as sages said these things
happened. Hindus accept beliefs that are not from this age and
happened millions of years ago, not in this yuga and not in this
kalpa.
The problem with Christianity is not just beliefs but the inherent
contradictions. Same with Islam. Take for example, the fact Jesus
never said he was God, he never said he was the only son of God, he
never said his mother was a virgin. He made nonsense statements such
as handle poisonous snakes, drink poison (Mark 16) etc. He wanted
those who did not accept him killed- Luke 19-27, John 15-6, Acts 3-23,
many more. He wanted people to buy swords even by selling their shirts
( to kill nonchristians obviously), as that was clearly the biblical
tradition to kill the "outsiders".
There was no God any where in the bible where God came and taught
anything. All this talk of Jesus as God's son etc are all from other
people such as Paul etc etc. Jesus even said he was not good- Luke
18-19. Bible itself is not a consistent document, man made from the
third century. There are so many versions. NIV Bible says reliable
manuscripts do not have Mark 16- 9 and following verses! If there is a
corrupt document, an example is the Christian bible. Hence it should
be called the babble
Christianity is not just another system with beliefs but inherently
contradictory and harmful for non-christians clearly. Same with Islam
founded by a man who was to say the least antisocial for political and
self serving reasons
Wanderer
> On Aug 23, 6:03 pm, Wanderer <n...@there.yet> wrote:
>> karthikass <mud...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
First of all, do you and Karthikass share the same house and wife, or
are you twins?
>> Are you denying or believing that:
>> The earth is held up by an elephant standing on the back of a turtle.
>> The world was made out of water and butter.
>> That a flying monkey carried a mountain range in his arms.
>> That a deer drinking water in a stream drank the semen of a sage and
>> gave birth to human babies.
>>
>> There are fairy tales in every religion.
>
> There are beliefs in many so called religions. Hindus accept many
> beliefs. Many beliefs are accepted as sages said these things
> happened. Hindus accept beliefs that are not from this age and
> happened millions of years ago, not in this yuga and not in this
> kalpa.
There is no event that happened millions of years ago that was
contemporarily recorded. These are not beliefs in that they are true,
they are beliefs in fairy tales. Same as most stories in any religion.
Would you believe that Arjuna killed 218,700 men by himself in a single
day, or 5 men every 2 seconds for an entire 24-hour day? Given the rules
of engagement, that number would have to be even higher to account for
the cessation of battle at sundown. Of course you would, but that
doesn't mean it is remotely true.
> The problem with Christianity is not just beliefs but the inherent
> contradictions. Same with Islam. Take for example, the fact Jesus
> never said he was God, he never said he was the only son of God, he
> never said his mother was a virgin. He made nonsense statements such
> as handle poisonous snakes, drink poison (Mark 16) etc. He wanted
> those who did not accept him killed- Luke 19-27, John 15-6, Acts 3-23,
> many more. He wanted people to buy swords even by selling their shirts
> ( to kill nonchristians obviously), as that was clearly the biblical
> tradition to kill the "outsiders".
These were explained to you many times over from the perspective of
Christians, but being the closed-minded bigot that you are, you keep
repeating the same nonsensical things over and over.
uNmaiviLambi
> First of all, do you and Karthikass share the same house and wife, or
> are you twins?
It is sad but not surprising that you can think only at this level.
Can you not reply properly and discuss anything, I wonder
> There is no event that happened millions of years ago that was
> contemporarily recorded. These are not beliefs in that they are true,
> they are beliefs in fairy tales.
Nope. Events probably happened many millions, probably 300 to 400
millions years ago. It is likely true that beings similar to humans
existed hundreds of millions ago.
karthika
Truth hurts. When you bark at other religions, you must know your
religion also have the same shit stories!
hahahaha
RSS.
Sri Lankans have no RSS and I am from NALLUR, JAFFNA and not from
Kandy but you were born in Colombo. I hope you are a PARAWA from
Thoothukudi. id you live in Modera or Thottalanga?
Christians are best at inventing storis like yours. That is why
Catholic Church call Tamil Tigers who killed Rajiv Gandhi as the
DIVINE SOLDIERS OF CHRIST. Crime is always part of your church!
karthika
Is this another Church propaganda?
karthika
> karthikass <mud...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> > You are a shit and never know much about anything about Hindu
> > Philosophy or Hindus. You, yourself a converted cooli boy of the
> > Church.
>
> I've never converted to Christianity. If I did, at least I could take
> the credit for having examined my available options and decided on what
> would be best for me. Unlike you, a marxist RSS thoti refugee from Tamil
> Eelam who does not know the difference between "hope" and "think".
>
> > You know nothing about the history of your own catholic church which
> > killed thousands of hindus in Goa.
>
> Show me the proof that "thousands of hindus" were killed in Goa, you
> incredibly dull-witted cretin. I have shown you the available evidence
> which indicates that fewer than 100 people(who were not Hindus) were
> killed over nearly 300 years of Portuguese rule.
hahahahahaha
Sri lankan Hindus claims more than 2655 Hindu tamils were killed at
the inquisitions in GOA.
>
> > You cried that Tamil Royals of sri lanka.
>
> I cried what? You dolt, you need to read the Mahavamsa, which chronicles
> the conflict between Hindu Tamils and Buddhist Sinhalese over many
> centuries. The repeated destruction of Anuradhapura and Madurai is a
> testament to the cruelty of religion-inspired bloodthirst, which
> predates Islamic and Christian influence in the sub-continent.
I think you never read Mahavamsa. It talk about History. It never talk
anything against Hindus. Better read it again and tell me where it
tells anything against Hindus.
>
> > Did ever visit museum of
> > Lisbon?
>
> Which one? Have you ever visited Lisbon, you fudge-packing RSS moron?
Hahahaha
You are a real moron! Go and read in museum of Lisbon!
>
> > Portugeuse brought Catholic Religion to you!
>
> Not to me, they didn't.
Then who? You converted in Sri lanka for few ruppees?
>
> > Better learn instead of barking your anti-Hindu propaganda while
> > living as a parasite in India.
>
> I don't live in India. But _you_ do live in Canada, among white
> Christians you repeatedly proclaim your hatred for, and you have
> expressed the desire to kill white Christians. So stop barking your RSS
> propaganda while your wife works double shifts at Toronto General.
Now you become a real dog! You cannot find the truth if you are a
Catholic. Catholics killed thousands of Hindus. That is a fact.
Your mud brain never know the existance of the Hindu kingdom of Jaffna
and how Catholic Portugeuse destroyed it and killed the Royals of
Jaffna Kingdom!
karthika
This WANDERER is an old ass without a place to claim as his own. His
mental problems cannot be solved by the Internet. His church is his
savior and not the Christ.
In catholic churches the priests share BOYS and GIRLS for sex in the
name of their LORD! hahahahahahaha
Markku Grönroos
"karthika" <mud...@sympatico.ca> kirjoitti
viestissä:5a25bf6d-b6c8-48d7...@z66g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
In catholic churches the priests share BOYS and GIRLS for sex in the
name of their LORD! hahahahahahaha
>
You don't: young boys it has always been. touching their naked body is nice?
Yes?
Wanderer
And all this was written down in Sanskrit, and somehow survived the age
of the dinosaurs, the various ice-ages, and all the cataclysms until
Brahmin sages deemed the world was ready for this historical truth?
Wanderer
> On Aug 23, 6:03 pm, Wanderer <n...@there.yet> wrote:
>> karthikass <mud...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>>> Oh yeah
>>> Jesus walked on the water!
>>> Jesus made blind guys to see!
>>> Jesus made dumbs to speak!
>>> Many more idiotic stories your Bible talk. How is that? Are you
>>> denying or believeing them?
>> Are you denying or believing that:
>> The earth is held up by an elephant standing on the back of a turtle.
>> The world was made out of water and butter.
>> That a flying monkey carried a mountain range in his arms.
>> That a deer drinking water in a stream drank the semen of a sage and
>> gave birth to human babies.
>>
>> There are fairy tales in every religion. But, as a certified Tamil RSS
>> coolie thoti from Kandy living off his wife's earnings doing double-duty
>> as a nurse at Toronto General, you don't have the intelligence to
>> realize that.
>
> Truth hurts. When you bark at other religions, you must know your
> religion also have the same shit stories!
You are the only one barking, thoti karthikass. I am the one pointing
out that all religions have fairy tales. Can't you f**king read, you
illegitimate RSS coolie?
>
> hahahaha
> RSS.
> Sri Lankans have no RSS and I am from NALLUR, JAFFNA and not from
> Kandy but you were born in Colombo. I hope you are a PARAWA from
> Thoothukudi. id you live in Modera or Thottalanga?
I see even a thoti like you has caste prejudices. And if you are from
Jaffna, then you must be a tea-picking coolie.
> Christians are best at inventing storis like yours. That is why
> Catholic Church call Tamil Tigers who killed Rajiv Gandhi as the
> DIVINE SOLDIERS OF CHRIST. Crime is always part of your church!
He was killed by a woman tea-picker from Jaffna. Was that your sister?
Wanderer
> On Aug 23, 6:06 pm, Wanderer <n...@there.yet> wrote:
>> karthikass <mud...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>>> You are a shit and never know much about anything about Hindu
>>> Philosophy or Hindus. You, yourself a converted cooli boy of the
>>> Church.
>> I've never converted to Christianity. If I did, at least I could take
>> the credit for having examined my available options and decided on what
>> would be best for me. Unlike you, a marxist RSS thoti refugee from Tamil
>> Eelam who does not know the difference between "hope" and "think".
>>
>>> You know nothing about the history of your own catholic church which
>>> killed thousands of hindus in Goa.
>> Show me the proof that "thousands of hindus" were killed in Goa, you
>> incredibly dull-witted cretin. I have shown you the available evidence
>> which indicates that fewer than 100 people(who were not Hindus) were
>> killed over nearly 300 years of Portuguese rule.
>
> hahahahahaha
> Sri lankan Hindus claims more than 2655 Hindu tamils were killed at
> the inquisitions in GOA.
What the f**k do Sri Lankan Hindus have to do with what happened in Goa,
you stupid schmuck? And how the f**k would Hindu Tamils be in Goa? You
are out of your tea-bud-picking mind!
>>> You cried that Tamil Royals of sri lanka.
>> I cried what? You dolt, you need to read the Mahavamsa, which chronicles
>> the conflict between Hindu Tamils and Buddhist Sinhalese over many
>> centuries. The repeated destruction of Anuradhapura and Madurai is a
>> testament to the cruelty of religion-inspired bloodthirst, which
>> predates Islamic and Christian influence in the sub-continent.
>
> I think you never read Mahavamsa. It talk about History. It never talk
> anything against Hindus. Better read it again and tell me where it
> tells anything against Hindus.
Read it, you f**kwit, before you talk out of your asshole again.
>>> Did ever visit museum of
>>> Lisbon?
>> Which one? Have you ever visited Lisbon, you fudge-packing RSS moron?
>
> Hahahaha
> You are a real moron! Go and read in museum of Lisbon!
You think Lisbon is a town with 3 huts and 1 temple and a museum?
>>> Portugeuse brought Catholic Religion to you!
>> Not to me, they didn't.
>
> Then who? You converted in Sri lanka for few ruppees?
>
>>> Better learn instead of barking your anti-Hindu propaganda while
>>> living as a parasite in India.
>> I don't live in India. But _you_ do live in Canada, among white
>> Christians you repeatedly proclaim your hatred for, and you have
>> expressed the desire to kill white Christians. So stop barking your RSS
>> propaganda while your wife works double shifts at Toronto General.
>
> Now you become a real dog! You cannot find the truth if you are a
> Catholic. Catholics killed thousands of Hindus. That is a fact.
Show me proof, you cretin, or else shut the f**k up.
> Your mud brain never know the existance of the Hindu kingdom of Jaffna
> and how Catholic Portugeuse destroyed it and killed the Royals of
> Jaffna Kingdom!
If the Catholic Portuguese killed the Jaffna royal family, did Jaffna
suddenly get shifted to Goa, you stupid piece of shit?
karthika
>
> - Show quoted text -
Hahaha
Coolie old idiot!
You came to Sri Lanka in search of a JOB. Remember it cooli old
monkey!
In Jaffna no tea-estates but your relatives are in Hill country and
the coolies.
Now you are showing your stupidity well!
Your catholic Monkey church always teach you how to tell lies in
public. Now you are qualified to be an IDIOT in this group!
Your DIVINE SOLDIERS OF CHRIST killed Rajiv Gandhi.
karthika
>
> - Show quoted text -
You are a fool and cannot know how Portugeuse controlled the Indian
maritimes as well as the Sri Lankan maritimes for more than 140 years.
Now you show how you are stupid and cry here!
What were you doing in Colombo, Sri lanka? Many Indian coolies are
still there washing the toilets. I think you are one of them!
mud...@sympatico.ca
>
> - Show quoted text -
In Jaffna, no tea-estates. You cry like a fool and telling lies. I
know well you are a Thoothukudi PARAWA who came to Sri lanka in search
of jobs!
Cooli Boy! Better tell how did you became a Catholic?
harmony
<mud...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:8d098d39-e4b9-4840...@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
how does anybody become a kirastani? thr' fraud, loot, killing. how many
people would be kirastani today if it weren't for centuries of killings by
the people of "love"?
Markku Grönroos
"karthika" <mud...@sympatico.ca> kirjoitti
viestissä:e7d37df9-94df-4556...@f63g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>
Hahaha
Coolie old idiot!
You came to Sri Lanka in search of a JOB. Remember it cooli old
monkey!
In Jaffna no tea-estates but your relatives are in Hill country and
the coolies.
Now you are showing your stupidity well!
Your catholic Monkey church always teach you how to tell lies in
public. Now you are qualified to be an IDIOT in this group!
Your DIVINE SOLDIERS OF CHRIST killed Rajiv Gandhi.
__________________________________________________________________________
Don't forget the nazi pope and solheim either. They are the most wicked
characters.
Wanderer
I would never go to Sri Lanka as long as coolies like you are there.
> In Jaffna no tea-estates but your relatives are in Hill country and
> the coolies.
Thottakattans like you and your suicide-bomber sister always call Jaffna
home.
> Now you are showing your stupidity well!
> Your catholic Monkey church always teach you how to tell lies in
> public. Now you are qualified to be an IDIOT in this group!
>
> Your DIVINE SOLDIERS OF CHRIST killed Rajiv Gandhi.
Your sister was a DIVINE SOLDIER OF CHRIST??
Wanderer
> how does anybody become a kirastani? thr' fraud, loot, killing. how many
> people would be kirastani today if it weren't for centuries of killings by
> the people of "love"?
How does one become a saffron shithead? Through a complete lack of
self-worth, a total loss of human dignity, impotent rage against people
who fail to recognize your "god-given" superiority that manifests itself
through the lack of any noticeable human qualities, and an unquestioning
willingness to kill innocent people.
Wanderer
It still does not mean Colombo is in Goa, f**kface!
> Now you show how you are stupid and cry here!
You show how smart you are by claiming Colombo is in Goa.
> What were you doing in Colombo, Sri lanka? Many Indian coolies are
> still there washing the toilets. I think you are one of them!
No, thottakattans like you wash the toilets and clear the sewage.
karthika
>
> - Show quoted text -
This old fart was born in Sri Lanka to a Catholic Cooli. I think he or
his father became a Catholic after getting some Sri Lankan rupees from
the church!
karthika
>
> - Show quoted text -
hahahahaha
Your Fr.Emmanuel, a catholic Monkey claimed that the Tamil Tigers are
the DIVINE SOLDIERS OF CHRIST!
Thotakatans is a word mention the INDIAN TAMIL and not any Sri lankan
Tamils. You better ask your POPE and he will tell how to blowup Indian
Prime Minister or any one!
I am a Hindu and never associate with your CHURCH or the CRIMINAL
DIVINE SOLDIERS OF CHRIST!
karthika
Oh! Yeah!
BUSH also kill people in Iraq after listening to SAFFRON people. Make
it as your claim. We will laugh !
karthika
>
> - Show quoted text -
Your father was a toilet cleaner in Colombo. That is why you were born
there!
You are a PARAWA cooli from Thoothukudi and cry at other Indian
Tamils!