O PONOSE U ANGLICHAN
O. Tolmachov
Otbyvaya iz Moskvy, ya obnaruzhil vesma zanimatelnyi poster u Angliyskogo
posolstva. V etom postere rech shla pro bednych anglichan, kotorye po
priyezde v Roosiyu tut zhe zabolevayut kishechnymi infektsiyami.
Utverzhdalos, chto zabolevayut okolo 70% pribyvshich v Roosiyu anglichan,
problema seryoznaya i predlagalis sovershenno umilitelnyye sovety kak s
etim borotsya - pit 3 litra podsolenoy vody v den, ne zhaleya vremeni sydet
na gorshke i t.d. Utverzhdalos takzhe, chto vo vsem vinovata antisanitariya
v Rossii, muhi ponimaete i vse takoe. Gospoda, eto naglaya lozh na rodnuyu
stranu. Vse absolutno normalno s sanitariyey v Rossii. Prosto pribyvshie
inostrantsy delayut v shtany "so strahu", ot stressa. Vasha tochka zreniya?
--
Yours sincerely, Oleg Tolmachov
SS
> >
> > <... Stuff deleted ...>
> >
> > SS
>
> Ty, brat, predlagaesh' vesch' dostatochno neumnuyu (no offense meant).
> Chto-zh teper' o evreyakh pisat' na idish ili ivrite? Tem bolee, chto
> luchshe pisat' na russkom no bez oshibok, chem na angliiskom s russkoi
> stilistikoi i sub'ektivnymi grammaticheskimi pravilami.
Look, mate, I do know that my English is far from perfect and yes,
I would like to write to the Jews (or about them) in their language.
And don't you worry - I'm learning.
Anyway, I translated this article to my English friends who are
interested in Russia and studying Russian (actually they asked me
this, because they understood the title) and they were offended.
> A chto kasaetsya
> PONOSA tak anglichane dolzhny chuvstvovat' sebya otmenno v Rossii
> izlechivshis' ot svoei natsional'noi bolezni i nakonets moguschie
> otdokhnut' ot traditsionnogo upotrebleniya chernosliva i stakana teplogo
> moloka na noch' dlya uluchsheniya stula.
It's a bit out of date.
SS
Karina
>
>:
>
>
>: V ehtom godu ya ne videl ni odnoj stat'i na SCS, kotoraya posvyashchena
>: byla by amerikanskoj zhivopisi ili khotya by sostoyaniyu
>: ikh kollektsij v muzeyakh. Ne uveren, chto nashi authors obsuzhdayut ehto
>: na drugikh gruppakh. Zato vsevozmozhnyje bytovyje voprosy
>: obsuzhdayutsya postoyanno, osobenno, kakiye neprivlekatel'nyje
>: amerikanki (kak budto tut vse pol'zuyutsya siklyuchitel'nym uspekhom u
>: amerikanok).
>
>: Tak chto bol'shoj raznitsy mezhdu x-sovetskimi i inostrantsami
>: ya ne vizhu.
>
A ti vnachale shodi i posmotri Americanskuyu zivopis. Vo vseh luchshih
gallereyah kartini frantsuzskih i russkih hudoznikov.
Samo ponyatiye "Amerivanskaya zivopis" poka chto vesma tumanno.
Ya soglasna, chto yest Americanskaya avangardnaya skulptura i nectoriye
drugie vidi isskusstva, glavnim obrazom zloveshe originalniye, what
is called "unique" here and is mostly appreciated because of
the sums of money those "artists" make on the stuff they produce.
S tochki zreniya ze estetici i tehniki "they all look up to European
culture and art."
Sicerely yours,
Karina V.
>: --
>: Sincerely yours,
>: Leonid Delitsin
SS
mail to the newsgroup is considered to be a bad "netiquette".
I do apologize for doing this.
SS
George Chesakov
|> A ti vnachale shodi i posmotri Americanskuyu zivopis. Vo vseh luchshih
|> gallereyah kartini frantsuzskih i russkih hudoznikov.
Chto-to ja ne videl mnogo kartin russkih hudozhnikov ni v Bostone,
ni v Chicago, ni v Washingtone, D.C.
|> Samo ponyatiye "Amerivanskaya zivopis" poka chto vesma tumanno.
Polovina National Gallery of Art in Washington, D.C. otvedena pod
amerikanskuju zhivopis', sredi kotoroj vstrechajutsja i vpolne prilichnye
kartiny, ne ustupujuschie mnogim obrazchikam frantsuzskogo
shirpotreba, kotorym zabit Pushkinskij muzej v Moskve.
|> Ya soglasna, chto yest Americanskaya avangardnaya skulptura i nectoriye
|> drugie vidi isskusstva, glavnim obrazom zloveshe originalniye, what
|> is called "unique" here and is mostly appreciated because of
|> the sums of money those "artists" make on the stuff they produce.
|> S tochki zreniya ze estetici i tehniki "they all look up to European
|> culture and art."
That's true, though, that the the Modern Art buiding of the National
Gallery is crammed with the ugly exemplars of both Europian and American
XX'th century cultures.
naive
George Chesakov
|> Ya vsegda etu zhivuyu pis', skul'pturu raznuju terpet' ne mog. Hermitage vsegda
|> nenvidel to glubiny dushi, obhodil desjatoj storonoj. Edinstvennyj muzej koto-
|> ryj ja zdes' posetil - natural history, 3 raza. Vpechatljaet, a vy iskustvo,
|> iskustvo.
^^^^^^^^^
Da, ja vizhu chto iskusstvo vyrazhat' svoi mysli na rodnom jazyke takzhe
ne vazhno dlaj vas, kak i iskusstvo voobsche. Pechal'no...
No chto podelaesh'...
Rekomenduju shodit' v Air-Space v Washington, D.C.
Tozhe mozhet vpechatlit'.
naive
SS
O. Tolmachov wrote:
>...deleted.....
> ... but one should be keen enough to distingwish between humor and
> verbal litter.
Dear Oleg,
Different people have different sence of humor and I was not the only
one who didn't understand your humor. I fully agree with the expressed
ideas when you've put it in a different manner. Hope that I didn't
offend you too much with my first message.
SS
SS
If you really get bored in Nottingham (as our friend 'dvornik'
assumed) or get lost in the Sherwood Forest
or just need a friendly hand - my e-mail enclosed.
SS
s...@ee.port.ac.uk
(Tainoe obshestvo 'Sovok - UK')
George Chesakov
DISCLAIMER: Being not sure whether my English is noticeably better
than that presented in the cited article, I apologize for
being as meticulous as my disdainful nature compels me to be.
As it is srupulously noted below, such an aggresive manner of behavior
is due to the serious inner discord and a strong desire to make
others pay for my own problems.
In article <***-151194...@128.243.144.236>, *** (O. Tolmachov) writes:
|> Gentlemen,
|> Anyway I stimulated you for discussion. Actully I have had several points
^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^
Better say: I have stimulated...
~~~~
Also you better say: I had several..., for you define the time when you had
several points. ~~~
|> in mind while posting my initial message. FIRSTLY, I did'nt like arguments
^^^^^
Better say: when posting, because 'while' suggests that you use
~~~~
continuous tense (with which the verb 'have' is rarely used),
and stresses the duration (or even transient nature) of the
process of "having", rather than fact itself.
|> with the only point "Who is sovok here" which are quite common for this
|> group. Gentlemen, there is no "sovok" anymore. There is Russia, a very good
|> country actually, and there is no any reason to be ashame of this country.
^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^
Say: ashamed
~~~~~~~
'This country' means THIS COUNTRY, i.e. here it means US, and at your location
it means UK.
|> SECONDLY, I would like to make the above point especially considering
|> massive brainwashing campaign of western media. I do not know reasons for
^^
I believe that correct usage should be: in.
|> the campaign, perhaps it is just a mixture of self-interest, inertia of the
|> anti-Russian propaganda, and misunderstanding of real state of affairs in
^^
'the' omitted.
|> modern Russia which are far from bad. THIRDLY, of course, there is a real
^^^^^^^^^^^^
In what direction?
|> problem (ponos) which I happened to discuss with the Vice-Chancellor. So it
^^
'have' omitted.
|> is unfair to say that I am hushing up my views under the screen of Russian
^^^^^^
Unfairness suggests dishonesty, whis was not the case, since nobody
actually knew about your talking to the Vice-Chancellor.
|> language. But I do not feel a bit guilty of speaking my native tong. In
^^^^^^ ^^^^
GUILTY implies responsibility for or consciousness
of crime, sin, or, at the least, grave error or misdoing
Better say: blamable for speaking ... tongue...
~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~
|> fact I proud that many items in this group are written in Russian, it looks
^^
'am' omitted.
|> favourably in comparison with other cultural groups which are surprisingly
^^^^^^^^^^
Correct usage: favorable.
~~
|> English-speaking. FOURTHLY, exuse me friends, I was just getting fun from
|> the way the computer net works.
|> Speaking about posters in this group it is noteworthy that many of them
|> are agressive. Why is it so? Is it a way of psychological compensation of
|> unhappy and humuliated migrants? Friends, please, do not be agressive,
|> there is absolutly no point in that. Yet another my observation is
|> widespread use of obsene language. Is it a poor compensation as well? Of
|> course, sometimes it is impossible to say a good funny story without obsene
|> words, but one should be keen enough to distingwish between humor and
|> verbal litter. Thank you for your attention to my humble remarks.
Thank you for your attention to my humble remarks.
naive
Yury Mukharsky
> Speaking about posters in this group it is noteworthy that many of them
>are agressive. Why is it so? Is it a way of psychological compensation of
>unhappy and humuliated migrants?
No it is pscycological compensation for absense of kitchens here. See, it's
bad manners to _argue in this country. Espessially argue agressively.
>Friends, please, do not be agressive,
>there is absolutly no point in that. Yet another my observation is
>widespread use of obsene language. Is it a poor compensation as well? Of
>course, sometimes it is impossible to say a good funny story without obsene
>words, but one should be keen enough to distingwish between humor and
>verbal litter.
Again, it's local speciality. As you may have noticed, level ob obscenity of
"fuck" in English is about the same as "chert" in Motherland. It sticks.
Yury
SS
> In article <3ae4ak$q...@hawk.ee.port.ac.uk> SS <s...@ee.port.ac.uk> writes:
> >(Tainoe obshestvo 'Sovok - UK')
>
Kakoi 'SOVUK', kuda 'SOVUK' !!? Vi eto precratite tovarisch!
Eto vam ne metloy po newsgruppe machat'. Davno v MI-5 ne
vizivaly?
Nu ladno, drugoe nazvanie: 'Sovok Krasniy' - videl v
Detskom Mire, chto na ploshadi Dzerjinskogo (po-democratski -
Lubianka, Brrrrrrrr). I stoil to sovok ne dorogo - 3.50 rub.,
no eto bylo v staroe dobroe vremia.
Most Sincerely
SS
Igor Mazin
>Igor Mazin wrote:
>
>>A chto, wy postojanno obsuzhdaete amerikanskuju zhiwopis' so sluchajn ymi
>>znakomymi? Wed' ne mozhete zhe wy schitat' nas wseh swoimi druz'jami?
>
> Ya, ne ochen' ponyal: pochemu ya dolzhen obsuzhdat' zhivopis' so svoimi
>druz'yami. Moi druz'ya ravnodushny k zhivopisi.
Ja ne znaju ni washego wozrasta, ni washih sklonnostej, interesow, i t.d.
I ne dolzhen znat' - w etom wsja ideja newsgroup. No eto zatrudnjaet
besedy na temy iskusstwa i na nekotorye dr. temy.
>s.c.s. Bol'shinstvo regulyarnykh avtorov zdes' znachitel'no kul'turneye
>i obrazovanneye menya,
Eto pochemu zhe??
>k tomu zhe oni bol'she puteshestvovali za rubezhom i bol'she videli.
Nu i chto? Chto zhe mne, o swoih puteshestwijah po seti rasskazywat'?
Da menja ottuda wyprut i prawil'no sdelajut. Kto hochet, mozhet poiti
w biblioteku i pochitat', ne tak li?
>> Kstati, pochemu imenno amerikanskoj? Chto, samaja luchshaja w mire?
>
>Naskol'ko ya ponyal, problema byla v tom, chto anglichane vmesto togo,
>vhtoby vostorgat'sya sokrovishchami Oruzhejnoj palaty zhalovalis' na
>bytovyje neudobstva. Bol'shinstvo zavsegdatayev ehtoj gruppy obitayet
>v US, i po analogii, mozhno trebovat' ot nikh obsuzhdeniya ameriknaskoj
>kul'tury, yesli oni -- kul'turnyje lyudi.
Po analogii, mozhno trebowat' ot gostej USA chtob oni obsuzhdali
dostoprimechatel'nosti Ameriki. A ot zhitelej Ameriki mozhno
trebowat' intersnogo i kriticheskogo obsuzhedenija problem strany,
w kotoroj oni zhiwut.
<T'fu, kuda nas zaneslo... Chto-to slishkom ser'zno poshlo....>
> Ob anglijskoj zhivopisi, kstati, tozhe zdes' ne govoryat, ne pomnyu
>ni yedinogo upominaniya Toernera (sp.?) ili Geinsborough (sp.?)
Turner i Gainsborough (w poslednem na 100% ne uweren)
>
>>Izwinite, eto JA ne wizhu. A WY kak raz widite, i postojanno na etu raznicu
>>upirajete, pytajas' kogo-to (sebja?) ubedit' chto x-sovetskie eto ljudi
>> wtorogo sorta.
>
>Da net, oni togo zhe sorta, prosto u nikh mozgi nabekren'.
Spasibo.
>Ya imeyu v vidu chrezvychajno prostuyu veshch': ne tol'ko "bezdukhovnyje"
>inostrantsy, no i "dushevnyje" sovetskiye v pervuyu ochered' obrashchayut
>vnimaniye na bytovyje problemy ("vstrechayut po odyozhke").
Po moemu zhiznennomu opytu - net.
>
>> A Amerika-to - tot zhe sovok, tol'ko w drugoj oblozhke!
>
>Proillyustriruj.
Pis'mo i tak dlinnoe. Para primerov - "molitwa" wo slawu Ameriki
(sdohnut' mozhno!) wo wseh shkolah. Kwasnoj patriotism s wyweshiwaniem
flagow kilometrowogo razmera na wseh uglah. W ciwilizowannyh stranah
takaja napyshchennajs demonstracija swoego patriotisma dawno schitaetsja
"mauvais ton". Tol'ko w USSR da w USA... (eshche w Israel, no eto
drugaja stat'ja. U nih est' prichiny).
Esli hotite bol'she podrobnostej - pishite mne po lichnomu e-mailu.
Ja ne uweren, chto eto wsem interesno.
Sergey Vakulenko
>>
>>> A Amerika-to - tot zhe sovok, tol'ko w drugoj oblozhke!
>>
>>Proillyustriruj.
>Pis'mo i tak dlinnoe. Para primerov - "molitwa" wo slawu Ameriki
>(sdohnut' mozhno!) wo wseh shkolah. Kwasnoj patriotism s wyweshiwaniem
>flagow kilometrowogo razmera na wseh uglah. W ciwilizowannyh stranah
>takaja napyshchennajs demonstracija swoego patriotisma dawno schitaetsja
>"mauvais ton". Tol'ko w USSR da w USA... (eshche w Israel, no eto
>drugaja stat'ja. U nih est' prichiny).
>Esli hotite bol'she podrobnostej - pishite mne po lichnomu e-mailu.
>Ja ne uweren, chto eto wsem interesno.
Na samom dele, mne, naprimer, interesno. Ya davno rassuzhdayu pro
sebya o smychke i pohozhesti etih dvuh kul'tur, i bylo by ochen'
interesno esche kogo-nibud' poslushat'. Mozhet, ya chego ne ponyal,
ili ne uvidel, ili uvidel, no ne to. Tak chto, mozhno i v newsgroup.
Kstati, k voprosu o kvasnom patriotizme. Nikto ne daval sebe truda
perevesti "America Beatiful" ili "God bless AMerika"? Vot interesno,
kto u kogo sodral, Lebedev-Kumach "Shiroku stranu moyu rodnuyu" s
"From the mountains to the ocean", ili naoborot? Nu odin k odnomu zhe!
A vy govorite...
Simon Streltsov
: ma...@quartz.ciw.edu (Igor Mazin) writes:
: >takaja napyshchennajs demonstracija swoego patriotisma dawno schitaetsja
: >"mauvais ton". Tol'ko w USSR da w USA... (eshche w Israel, no eto
: >drugaja stat'ja. U nih est' prichiny).
I am afraid - you over-simplifying comparisons.
AS to prayers - my guess would be - that in most Xian and Muslim
countries - they are around.
On the tangential issue:
Here the whole discussion is about prayers in the _public schools_.
I am no expert, but it seems that if the same politicians who are
instituting prayers at school, will institute vouchers -
i.e. everyone brings his money to the school of his choice -
be it public school, yeshiva or komsomol organization
: Na samom dele, mne, naprimer, interesno. Ya davno rassuzhdayu pro
: sebya o smychke i pohozhesti etih dvuh kul'tur, i bylo by ochen'
: interesno esche kogo-nibud' poslushat'. Mozhet, ya chego ne ponyal,
As to comparing 2 cultures I would __very__ recommend to read
Torcquelle (sp?) "Democracy"
and De Custine "Empire of the Czar"
(I think it is fair that I put this ref once a semester, yes?)
both books are written at the same time (1850-s) by people
from the same social group and are classics about
Amerika and Russia correspondently
(btw, De Custine is so good, that I was told by one graduate
of Russian studies in one leftist university - that he heard the name,
but they did not read it (-:)
Simcha
The function of an expert is not be more right than other people,
but to be wrong for more sophisticated reasons
David Butler
Alexander Burshteyn
Leonid L. Delitsin <deli...@geology.wisc.edu> wrote:
>In article <CzBvG...@indirect.com>
>KAR...@RUPP.mhs.Compuserve.Com (Karina) writes:
>>A ti vnachale shodi i posmotri Americanskuyu zivopis. Vo vseh luchshih
>>gallereyah kartini frantsuzskih i russkih hudoznikov.
>>Samo ponyatiye "Amerivanskaya zivopis" poka chto vesma tumanno.
>First, I don't suggest to talk to anybody like that and to judge any
>art like that. In particular I meant Grant Wood and the american school
>of realsim, but if one wishes something modern, he/she can discuss
>the modern art of navajo and other american indians, not necessarilly
>constructivism or hyperrealism.
Well, there is a nice collection os American art of Boston Art Museum,
although, I guess, after a trip to the National Gallery, one would tend to
agree with Karina.
> I hope, you realise, that proceeding like that, we will conclude soon
>that the Russian art consists solely from "matruska" and "icons",
>since these are the easiest things to see.
I don't see how this follows from the above.
>>S tochki zreniya ze estetici i tehniki "they all look up to European
>>culture and art."
Nu, "they *all*" -- eto neskol'ko ogul'no skazano.
>It depends on the time and school, which you have in your mind.
A eto bol'she pokhozhe na pravdu.
>--
>Sincerely yours,
>Leonid Delitsin
--
AB
******************
145 = 1! + 4! + 5!
Leonid L. Delitsin
ma...@quartz.ciw.edu (Igor Mazin) writes:
>(Leonid L. Delitsin) writes:
>> Ya, ne ochen' ponyal: pochemu ya dolzhen obsuzhdat' zhivopis' so svoimi
>>druz'yami. Moi druz'ya ravnodushny k zhivopisi.
>
>Ja ne znaju ni washego wozrasta, ni washih sklonnostej, interesow, i t.d.
>I ne dolzhen znat' - w etom wsja ideja newsgroup. No eto zatrudnjaet
>besedy na temy iskusstwa i na nekotorye dr. temy.
Ya ne skryvayu: mne 19 let, ya brosil voyennoje uchilishche.
>>s.c.s. Bol'shinstvo regulyarnykh avtorov zdes' znachitel'no kul'turneye
>>i obrazovanneye menya,
>Eto pochemu zhe??
See above.
>Pis'mo i tak dlinnoe. Para primerov - "molitwa" wo slawu Ameriki
>(sdohnut' mozhno!) wo wseh shkolah. Kwasnoj patriotism s wyweshiwaniem
>flagow kilometrowogo razmera na wseh uglah.
Kvasnoj patriotizm - ehto nekotoryj zhupel. Lyudyam yest', chem
gordit'sya, oni i gordyatsya. Kogda lyudi vyveshivali gigantskij
portret Brezhneva i krichali "ura", im tozhe bylo, chem gordit'sya.
Pravda potom okazalos', chto ehto bylo nedolgovechno. Pozhivyom,
uvudim, vot razvalitsya US, vozobnovyatsya vojny mezhdu Severom i
Yugom, togda skazhem, chto gordit'sya im nechem.
Kstati, prezreniye - ehto nekotoraya forma zavisti.
>Esli hotite bol'she podrobnostej - pishite mne po lichnomu e-mailu.
>Ja ne uweren, chto eto wsem interesno.
Da, vsem interesno. Ya boleye ili meneye regulyarno chitayu ehtu
grupu.
Dr Abil Aliev
>
>
>
>
>
>Oleg, I saw so far a couple of stupid letters in this newsgroup but
>it was fun to read them (example: 'plore). Your's is first which is
>both stupid and not funny (no offence meant). And anyway it's a good
>idea to write about Englishmen in English, so that they could have an
>opportunity to express their opinion on you.
>
>
>
>
>SS
... and I don't think it's a good idea to call someone's post stupid
Igor Chudov
: A golownyh wshej ja wperwye w zhizni uwidel w Switzerland. Wtoroj -
: w Amerike.
Pro Ameriku ja veriy srazu. No Switzerland... Pardon, gospoda, ja tam sam
byl. Tam v aeroportu mozhno v belyh noskah bez obuvi hodit' i ne
zapachkat'sa. Kakie k bogu golovnye vshi? U kogo? Vy navernoe ee s
Italiej pereputali, sir.
manin
In article <1994Nov16....@Princeton.EDU> ches...@tucson.princeton.edu (George Chesakov) writes:
o In article <CzBvG...@indirect.com>, KAR...@RUPP.mhs.Compuserve.Com (Karina) writes:
o |> A ti vnachale shodi i posmotri Americanskuyu zivopis. Vo vseh luchshih
o |> gallereyah kartini frantsuzskih i russkih hudoznikov.
o
o Chto-to ja ne videl mnogo kartin russkih hudozhnikov ni v Bostone,
o ni v Chicago, ni v Washingtone, D.C.
Tak to-to i plokho. Impressionisty esche kuda ni shlo, popadayutsya, a
vot russkikh nachala veka dnem s ognem.
o Polovina National Gallery of Art in Washington, D.C. otvedena pod
o amerikanskuju zhivopis', sredi kotoroj vstrechajutsja i vpolne prilichnye
o kartiny, ne ustupujuschie mnogim obrazchikam frantsuzskogo
o shirpotreba, kotorym zabit Pushkinskij muzej v Moskve.
"Inogda popadayutsya ... ne ustupayuschie mnogim". Chitai:
bol'shinstvo amerikanskoi zhivopisi ustupaet vsei francuzskoi. Eto ty
skazal, ne ya. No ya soglasen.
--
- M
Disclaimer: V sluchae oslableniya khrustyaschikh svoistv
Produkt rekomenduetsya podsushit'
Alexander Bakharev
> >Torcquelle (sp?) "Democracy"
> >and De Custine "Empire of the Czar"
>
> a plant called "razvesistaya klykva". I have been searching for this plant
> for many years now (I love klyukva) day and night with no success. Do you
> by any chance know where I can find it? And how tall is it? 10 meters? 20?
> As tall as the Sears Tower?
Was it by chanse Alexander Djuma (sp?) who wrote about this plant?
Igor Mazin
>ma...@quartz.ciw.edu (Igor Mazin) writes:
>>Esli hotite bol'she podrobnostej - pishite mne po lichnomu e-mailu.
>>Ja ne uweren, chto eto wsem interesno.
>
>Na samom dele, mne, naprimer, interesno. Ya davno rassuzhdayu pro
>sebya o smychke i pohozhesti etih dvuh kul'tur, i bylo by ochen'
>interesno esche kogo-nibud' poslushat'. Mozhet, ya chego ne ponyal,
>ili ne uvidel, ili uvidel, no ne to. Tak chto, mozhno i v newsgroup.
Eto dejstwitel'no dolgij razgowor, esli wser'ez. U menja tozhe est'
rjad nabljiudenij, osnowannuh na srawnenii w rjadu Germanija, gde
ja prozhil 4.5 goda, Rossija i USA. Koe w chem my sowsem ne pohozhi na
Americanow, znachitel'no bol'she na nemcew. Ja wperwue ponjal chto
my, russkie, tozhe evropeicy, kogda posle goda w Germanii popal
wperwye w Ameriku. No koe w chem (i polozhitelnom, i orocatel'nom),
my gorazdo blizhe k Americanam.
Kstati, Serega, tam u was w Rutgerse sidit moj prijatel' po
FIANu i po Stuttgartu, Igor Trofimov. Poobshchajtes', budet
nebezynteresno.
Igor Mazin
>shirpotreba, kotorym zabit Pushkinskij muzej v Moskve.
Nu i nu!
Pozhaliju bol'shej gluposti ja na SCS eshche ne chital....
Igor Mazin
>
>postcards of very good American impressionists home to my
>sister. Unfortunately, the only one who comes to mind is Mary
>Cassatt. Other famous, moderately well-known Americans are Whistler
Of course they are known. Never heard before that these two are American...
I thought Mary (Marie?) was French and Whistler was British.
>(and his mother :) ) and Georgia O'Keefe. Actually, we have more
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This one I never heard about. Must go and learn.
Igor Mazin
>Sergey Vakulenko (vaku...@pepper.rutgers.edu) wrote:
>: ma...@quartz.ciw.edu (Igor Mazin) writes:
>
>: >takaja napyshchennajs demonstracija swoego patriotisma dawno schitaetsja
>: >"mauvais ton". Tol'ko w USSR da w USA... (eshche w Israel, no eto
>: >drugaja stat'ja. U nih est' prichiny).
>
>I am afraid - you over-simplifying comparisons.
>AS to prayers - my guess would be - that in most Xian and Muslim
>countries - they are around.
Horoshaja kompanija dlja Ameriki!
>
>Here the whole discussion is about prayers in the _public schools_.
>I am no expert, but it seems that if the same politicians who are
>instituting prayers at school, will institute vouchers -
>i.e. everyone brings his money to the school of his choice -
>be it public school, yeshiva or komsomol organization
How do you mean?
>As to comparing 2 cultures I would __very__ recommend to read
>Torcquelle (sp?) "Democracy"
>and De Custine "Empire of the Czar"
In teh moment, we are not interested in comparing Russia and US of
1850.
Igor Mazin
>
>Gospodi prosti, o kakoi Oruzheinoi Palate mozhet idti rech esli u vas dermo po
>lyazhkam stekaet, esli v otele net tualetnoi bumagi i iz vonuchego
>kholodilnika na vas taraschitsya staya ozverevshikh tarakanov. Chto zhe teper
A wot sdes' w Washigton D.C. tarakany wo wseh apartment houses...
Kak w Moskwe... Tol'ko w Moskwe ja platil 30r w mesjac, na stol'ko
i poluchal. A zdes' plachu $960.
A golownyh wshej ja wperwye w zhizni uwidel w Switzerland. Wtoroj -
w Amerike.
I chto, mne teper' w Natinal Gallery w Washingtone nel'zja hodit',
raz u nas tarakany?
Igor Mazin
>than that presented in the cited article, I apologize for
>being as meticulous as my disdainful nature compels me to be.
>As it is srupulously noted below, such an aggresive manner of behavior
>is due to the serious inner discord and a strong desire to make
>others pay for my own problems.
usage compared to British one]
Can some native speaker comment?
George Chesakov
|> Eto dejstwitel'no dolgij razgowor, esli wser'ez. U menja tozhe est'
|> rjad nabljiudenij, osnowannuh na srawnenii w rjadu Germanija, gde
|> ja prozhil 4.5 goda, Rossija i USA. Koe w chem my sowsem ne pohozhi na
|> Americanow, znachitel'no bol'she na nemcew. Ja wperwue ponjal chto
|> my, russkie, tozhe evropeicy, kogda posle goda w Germanii popal
|> wperwye w Ameriku. No koe w chem (i polozhitelnom, i orocatel'nom),
|> my gorazdo blizhe k Americanam.
U menja est' odno nabljudenie, osnovannoe na chtenii
odnoj davnej stat'i lureta Nobelevskoj premii po literature etogo goda,
chto Russkie v nekotoryh svoih chertah ochen'
pohozhi na latino-amerikantsev.
--
naive
Exterminate learning, and there will no longer be worries.
--- Lao-Tzu
Igor Mazin
>In article <18Nov94.0...@granite.ciw.edu>
>
>ma...@quartz.ciw.edu (Igor Mazin) writes:
>>
>>Ja ne znaju ni washego wozrasta, ni washih sklonnostej, interesow, i t.d.
>>I ne dolzhen znat' - w etom wsja ideja newsgroup. No eto zatrudnjaet
>>besedy na temy iskusstwa i na nekotorye dr. temy.
>
>Ya ne skryvayu: mne 19 let, ya brosil voyennoje uchilishche.
Wobshchem-to eto dostatochno tol'ko dlja table-talk. No koe-chto
sleduet uzhe i iz etogo. Naprimer, tot fact cto my razneseny na celoe
pokolenie, awtomaticheski podrazumewaet chto mnogie weshchi w iskusstwe
my wosprinimaem po-raznomu. No wash prizyw obsuzhdat' zhiwopis' po seti
ja kazhetsja teper' ponjal luchshe.
>
>>>s.c.s. Bol'shinstvo regulyarnykh avtorov zdes' znachitel'no kul'turneye
>>>i obrazovanneye menya,
>>Eto pochemu zhe??
>
>See above.
A wot eto niotkuda ne sleduet. Opytnee - navernoe. Obrazowannee - wozmozhno.
Kulturnee - ne objzatelno. Woennoe uchilishe konechno ne sposobstwuet,
no tak wy wed' ego brosili?
>
>>Pis'mo i tak dlinnoe. Para primerov - "molitwa" wo slawu Ameriki
>>(sdohnut' mozhno!) wo wseh shkolah. Kwasnoj patriotism s wyweshiwaniem
>>flagow kilometrowogo razmera na wseh uglah.
>
>Kvasnoj patriotizm - ehto nekotoryj zhupel. Lyudyam yest', chem
>gordit'sya, oni i gordyatsya. Kogda lyudi vyveshivali gigantskij
>portret Brezhneva i krichali "ura", im tozhe bylo, chem gordit'sya.
Da net, kak raz gordilis' tem, chem gorditsja ne stoilo. I zdes'
to zhe samoe. Strany kak ljudi - ih cennost' est' drob' w znamena-
tele kotoroj stoit samomnenie, a w chislitele istinnaja ih stoimost'
(pripisywaetsja L. Tolstomu). Tak wot u amerikanow znamenatel' - ogo!
Za eto ih w chastnosti i neljubjat. Po sr. so mnogimi stranami Amerike
sowershenno nechem gorditsja. T.e. ja ne goworju chto sowsem nechem.
No osnowanij styditjsa ne men'she. A - wse rawno gordjatsj. Kak wy
werno zametili - tochno kak sovki w Brezhnewskije wremena.
Ktati 4 naibolee pozornye weshci w Amerike eto (porjadok moj, a sam
nabor priznaetsja takowym bol'shinstwom ne-Amerikancew i mnogimi
Amerikancami):
1) Medicina
2) Presupnost'
3) Legalnaja sistema, osobenno wlast' adwokatow
4) Obrazowanie, osobenno shkol'noe.
>uvudim, vot razvalitsya US,
Bog dast, ne razwalitsja. Raz my zdes' zhiwem, budem na eto nadejatsja.
Hwatit s nas odnoj strany. No konechno padenie Ameriki po otnosheniju
k ostalnomu miru za 50 let razitel'noe. Razbitye, razrushennye pod koren'
Japonija i Germanija dognali i obognali blagopoluchnuju, kupawshujusja
w zolote Ameriku. Eto li ne pozor? $, upawshij w 5 raz po otnosheniju
k DM, ne goworja o yene - eto li ne pozior?
>Kstati, prezreniye - ehto nekotoraya forma zavisti.
Mozhet byt'. No ko mne eto ne otnsitsja. Wo perwyh ja Ameriku
ne preziraju, inache by ne priehal. No otnoshus' k nej, kak i ko
wsemu ostalnomu, s chem stalkiwalsja, kritichiski. Nu, pozhaluj,
w swoih postingah na gruppe peregibaju w etu storonu, chtob
sbalansirowat' bezuderzhnuj potok napadenij na Rossiju - neplohuju
w obshchem-to stranu, ne huzhe Ameriku, w silu neudachnogo
stechenija obstojatelstw sejchas maloprigodnuju dlja zhilja. Uwy.
Wo wtoryh ja nikomu ne zawiduju, chestno. Chego mne im zawidowat'?
Ja zdes', takoj zhe kak oni. Nikto na menja swerhu wniz ne smotrit,
i ja ni na kogo ne smotrju. I slawa Bogu nikito mne ne goworit "Ah
kak wy horosho goworite po-anglijski!". A w Germanii posojanoo
goworili "AH kakoj u was nemeckij!" A on u menja wdwoe huzhe
angl;iskogo...
Igor Mazin
>Igor Mazin (ma...@quartz.ciw.edu) wrote:
>
>: A golownyh wshej ja wperwye w zhizni uwidel w Switzerland. Wtoroj -
>: w Amerike.
>
>Pro Ameriku ja veriy srazu. No Switzerland... Pardon, gospoda, ja tam sam
>byl. Tam v aeroportu mozhno v belyh noskah bez obuvi hodit' i ne
Moj prijatel podcepil w youth hostel pod Zuerichom.
A w Germanii w detsadu (w katolicheskom! Attention, Simha!)
byli, no slawa bogu moju dochku ne zarazili.
Dmitri Gennadievitch Alex Artemenko
Vse problemy v amerike proishodjat iz-za togo chto eto strana s udivitel'no
sil'nym udareniem na Svobodu, bez osobogo vnimanija k raspredeleniju
mezhdu Ravenstvom i Porjadkom.
Sovershenno dikie broski iz storony v stotronu porozhdajut interesnye resul'ta-
ty. Social Security ubivaet medlenno no verno volju teh kto vnizu k bor'be.
Tochno tak-zhe kak rodovospomagaetl'nye operacii uhudshajut genofond chelove-
chestva, welfare uhudshaet sostojanie Amerikanskogo obschestva. Etot dubnjak s
oruzhiem voobsche obsuzhdat' neohota. Na ulice oruzhe dolzhny imet' pravo
nosit' vse. Esli net to dolzhny byt'sistemy kotorye ne dadut eto delat' nikomu.
Amerike est' chem gordit'sja, hotja by vozmozhnost'ju
"kick anybody's ass at any given time" POetomu s obrazovaniem tak hrenovo v
shkolah chto vse den'gi na ass-kicking tehniku uhodjat. I ne strashno eto chem
men'she ravenstva tem zdorovee.
I japonija i Germanja za amerikanskij schjot tak horosho sebja chuvstvujut, i
Israil' kstati govorja.
I medicina zdes' ne plohaja, nu ne plohaja ona i vsjo. Stoimosti ejo praktiches-
ki nichego ne znachat dlja srednego insurance platel'schika.
Chego to moj editor okonchatel'no poehal.
Juridicheskaja sistema - prekrasnaja. tjurem tol'ko ne hvataet. Opjat' zhe
iz-za liberalisma. Esli kogda nibud' ponastrjat dostatochno tjurem to nado
budet nochju vseh civil lawyers tuda zapihnut' na pozhiznennoe za prestuplenija
nad zdravym smyslom..
--
-------------------------------------------------------------
"The higher they are, the harder they fall . . . On you."
-------------------------------------------------------------
A [possible] Motto of the Soviet [ground] Air-Defense Forces.
Dmitri Novikov
uchisa, xotia bi raz da prishlut pis'mos preduprezhdeniem, chto
u kogo-to nashli. I shkola, proshu zametit', odna iz luchshix
v districte, xotia i "public".
Russ Mestechkin
|>
|> Ktati 4 naibolee pozornye weshci w Amerike eto (porjadok moj, a sam
|> nabor priznaetsja takowym bol'shinstwom ne-Amerikancew i mnogimi
|> Amerikancami):
|>
|> 1) Medicina
|> 2) Presupnost'
|> 3) Legalnaja sistema, osobenno wlast' adwokatow
|> 4) Obrazowanie, osobenno shkol'noe.
Well, lets not be shy, let's extend the list of the shortcomings.
From this month discussions only I gather the following:
5) Colleges (don't teach anything outside the Moscow 57 Highschool cur.
6) Food (Disgvusting, especially bolognia from supermarkets)
7) Beer (horse piss)
8) Women (ugly, valet hunters, and faminist; have discusting manner to shave
body parts)
9) Put your favorite one
10) Software Companies (horrible monopolies who rip off their customers)
11) Roads (bad and slow)
12) Cars (slow and bad)
13) Bars & Night Life (Nonexistent. Particularly in Arizona and other
heavily civilized places)
14) Press (commercialized and govement ass-licking)
15) Culture in general (what is that?)
16) Music in general (Mostly country music and commercial sell outs)
17) TV in general ( Not enough penises and breasts)
18) Life in general ( what life - we are busy typing articles to SCS)
19) did I miss anything?
Can someone explain to me what the hell this bunch of exchange students and
imported work force is doing in such a horrible place? Why not put all this
articles together, and publish it in russian, so that others would not make
this mistake?
P.S. I also wonder why the guys from Israel, who apperently have much bigger
problems then speed limits, can rarely be heard bitching on the Net? And
someone was saying that Jews are the once who are never happy...
--
Xristofor Bonifatievich
smes...@nyx.cs.du.edu
WARNING: READ BEFORE OPENING ...
George Chesakov
Zdravstvujte, O Vy, znatok i tsenitel' zhivopisi, glashataj pravdy
ob iskusstve, orakul, k kotoromu my, serye i naivnye, pridem za
bestsennym sovetom. Kakoj svet istinnoj oduhotvorennosti chitaetsja
v Vashih skupyh do bezmyslija strokah, kakie gorizonty
otkryvajutsja nashemu istomlennomu v poiskah vechnoj krasoty
serdtsu, kakoj bal'zam Vy ljete na nashi usohshie dushi!
O, velichavyj i mnogomudryj, kak mnogo dorogogo nam zakljucheno
v Vashih prostyh kak kamen', moschnyh kak kamen', velikih
kak kamen' slovah! My slushaem i vnimaem!
Tak vozdaim zhe vam slavu, hvalu, i pochet!
I otvergnem vsju gnil' nashih somnenij i tschetu nashego psevdomyslija!
Vot sheluha teh slov, chto my vybrasyvaem na volju
pomojnogo vetra:
"Razve Boucher hudozhnik? menja toshnit ot ego plesnevelyh mladentsev...
A drugie? bessmyslennye portrety bessmyslennyh ljudej v ramah, kotorye stojat
bol'she kartin... A naivnye pejzazhi, s jadovito-zelenoj travoj,
angelochkami, tsveta razlagajuschegosja mjasa, i nimfami s obvislymi
formami..."
Kak korjavy oni! Kak nesravnim etot lepet so strogoj mudrost'ju vashej
gordoj rechi.
I my otritsaem sebja, i s nadezhdoj v serdtsah bredem za vami k
vershinam schastja i bessmertija duha.
George Chesakov
|> In article <1994Nov16....@Princeton.EDU> ches...@tucson.princeton.edu (George Chesakov) writes:
|> >
|> >DISCLAIMER: Being not sure whether my English is noticeably better
|> whether or not
``or not'' is not obligatory.
|> >than that presented in the cited article, I apologize for
|> >being as meticulous as my disdainful nature compels me to be.
|> >As it is srupulously noted below, such an aggresive manner of behavior
|> scr
In my article, I never commented on your typos (like ``do'nt''), did I?
|> >is due to the serious inner discord and a strong desire to make
|> a ?
Since I have (and can possibly have) only one inner discord, ``the'' was used.
On the other hand, I am obsessed with a variety of strong desires,
the mentioned one being only one of them.
|> >others pay for my own problems.
|>
|> [corrections, of which about 50% are either wrong or refer to American
|> usage compared to British one]
I would highly appreciate if you supported your statement with examples.
|>
|> Can some native speaker comment?
--
George Chesakov
|> I opyat' "chuckcha ne chitatel', chukcha - pisatel'".
Eto pro menja chto li? Humbly nadejus', chto esche ne popal v kill faily...
Igor Mazin
>In article <19Nov94.05...@granite.ciw.edu>, ma...@quartz.ciw.edu (Igor Mazin) writes:
>|>
>|> Ktati 4 naibolee pozornye weshci w Amerike eto (porjadok moj, a sam
>|> nabor priznaetsja takowym bol'shinstwom ne-Amerikancew i mnogimi
>|> Amerikancami):
>|>
>|> 1) Medicina
>|> 2) Presupnost'
>|> 3) Legalnaja sistema, osobenno wlast' adwokatow
>|> 4) Obrazowanie, osobenno shkol'noe.
>
>Well, lets not be shy, let's extend the list of the shortcomings.
Ja skazal - NAIBOLEE pozornye.
>From this month discussions only I gather the following:
>
>5) Colleges (don't teach anything outside the Moscow 57 Highschool cur.
Tochno ne znaju, no ne iskljuchaju.
>6) Food (Disgvusting, especially bolognia from supermarkets)
Nu tak prawda zhe!!!
>7) Beer (horse piss)
iJa tol'ko pro Bud govoril. Est' i nichego. Horoshee prawda ja pil
tol'ko importnoe.
>8) Women (ugly, valet hunters, and faminist; have discusting manner to shave
> body parts)
Wse w srawnenii... W Israel kuda luchshe, w Germanii kuda huzhe...
>9) Put your favorite one
I have 4 - above.
>10) Software Companies (horrible monopolies who rip off their customers)
????????
>11) Roads (bad and slow)
Compare to what? To Russia - they are O.K.
>12) Cars (slow and bad)
I did not say that. I don't like mine - the only other American car I drove
(Cavalier) was OK>
>13) Bars & Night Life (Nonexistent. Particularly in Arizona and other
> heavily civilized places)
>14) Press (commercialized and govement ass-licking)
Not sure.
>15) Culture in general (what is that?)
That is when A Russian postdoc knows more about American literature than
an american professor (happens quite often).
>16) Music in general (Mostly country music and commercial sell outs)
>17) TV in general ( Not enough penises and breasts)
I personally am missing not breasts (twice a week two channels, in central
Europe) but 2 culture channels and 12 non-commercial channels in GErman
language only, to say nothing of French, Dutch etc.
>18) Life in general ( what life - we are busy typing articles to SCS)
>19) did I miss anything?
Da. Samomnenie i wospewanie Ameriki nekotoruh korennyh i pochti wseh
nowopriezzhih amerikancew. [ Samomnenie ne w smysle lichnom]
>
>Can someone explain to me what the hell this bunch of exchange students and
>imported work force is doing in such a horrible place? Why not put all this
>articles together, and publish it in russian, so that others would not make
>this mistake?
Unfortunately Russian media, not able to publish truth, are now publishing
exclusively lie opposite to the lie the used to publish 10 yers ago.
I also can give you 19 reasons of what is good in America and attracts
imported work force like me, but since there are too many doing this job
I limit myself to the role of devil's advocate.
>
>P.S. I also wonder why the guys from Israel, who apperently have much bigger
>problems then speed limits, can rarely be heard bitching on the Net?
O, tehy do this at home! More than you can imagine.
Igor Mazin
>I japonija i Germanja za amerikanskij schjot tak horosho sebja chuvstvujut,
>Israil' kstati govorja.
Ne nado putat' mjasnoe s molochnym.
>I medicina zdes' ne plohaja, nu ne plohaja ona i vsjo.
I baklazhannaja ikra - WO! Kto drugoj ne edal... /Zhwaneckij/
Ot virusnogo grippa antibiotikami dazhe w Rossii ne lechili....
>Chego to moj editor okonchatel'no poehal.
I ne on odin...
>Esli kogda nibud' ponastrjat dostatochno tjurem to nado
>budet nochju vseh civil lawyers tuda zapihnut' na pozhiznennoe za prestuplenija
>nad zdravym smyslom..
Wot eto prawil'no. Togda s legal'noj storonoj w Amerike wse budet w porjadke.
A poka...
>
Aeneas
> In article <19Nov94.01...@granite.ciw.edu>, ma...@quartz.ciw.edu (Igor Mazin) writes:
> |> In article <1994Nov16....@Princeton.EDU> ches...@tucson.princeton.edu (George Chesakov) writes:
> |> >
> |> >DISCLAIMER: Being not sure whether my English is noticeably better
> |> whether or not
> ~~~~~~
> ``or not'' is not obligatory.
I agree, "or not" is not obligatory.
> |> >than that presented in the cited article, I apologize for
> |> >being as meticulous as my disdainful nature compels me to be.
> |> >As it is srupulously noted below, such an aggresive manner of behavior
> |> scr
> In my article, I never commented on your typos (like ``do'nt''), did I?
> |> >is due to the serious inner discord and a strong desire to make
> |> a ?
> Since I have (and can possibly have) only one inner discord, ``the'' was used.
> On the other hand, I am obsessed with a variety of strong desires,
> the mentioned one being only one of them.
Here you are both wrong. Neither "a" nor "the" should be used with
"serious inner discord", but "a" could be used with "strong desires" or
left out. A very good alternative would be to use "my" before "serious
inner discord and a strong desire" or to substitute "my" for "such an". All
ambiguity is eliminated this way. The "it" before "is scrupulously" could
also be eliminated for smoother reading.
> |> >others pay for my own problems.
> |>
> |> [corrections, of which about 50% are either wrong or refer to American
> |> usage compared to British one]
> I would highly appreciate if you supported your statement with examples.
> |>
> |> Can some native speaker comment?
I am a native American English speaker and I have commented. My recommended
version of the sentence with the worst construction reads as follows:
"As is scrupulously noted below, my aggressive manner of behavior is due
to serious inner discord and a strong desire to make others pay for my
own problems."
I didn't read the previous posts in your thread so my judgement is based
only on the sentences quoted above. The sentences you wrote have the same
meaning but are considered "clumsier". It's a small point and ordinarily I
wouldn't mention it, but you asked.
> naive
Is "naive" a name you use or is it a general comment on anyone
and anything? Just asking out of curiousity. I see it at the end of all of
your posts.
> Exterminate learning, and there will no longer be worries.
> --- Lao-Tzu
--
/IEEEE N\ N IEEEE A //==\\ Copyright (c)
//IIE N \\ N II A A (( \\ 1994, habus216
//AAIIEEE N \\ N IEEE AAAAA \\\\\ @huey.csun.edu
// IIE N \\N II A A \\ )) Los Angeles,CA
// IIEEEE N N IEEEE A A \\==// Mine,all mine.
Leonid L. Delitsin
>Nu vy tut dobaluetes' ny vu do izvraschaetes' chto ja stanu dva raza v mesjac
[...]
> sjuda na gruppu zataskivat
Nu, zasunem tebya v KILL-files.
Boris A. Veytsman
(Yury Mukharsky) says:
>
>In article <21Nov94.04...@granite.ciw.edu> ma...@quartz.ciw.edu (Igor
>Mazin) writes:
>>That is when A Russian postdoc knows more about American literature than
>>an american professor (happens quite often).
>
>
"Gor'kogo mnogo i ploho uchili. Eto emu ochen'
meshaet"
Viktor Shklovskiy.
Good luck
-Boris
Timothy Watson
ma...@sticky.rockefeller.edu (manin) writes:
> As for so-called American Impressionism, it's mostly sweet commercial
> crap.
Big Deal. Most paintings done anywhere are mostly crap (just go to
your local "art" fair).
Sure, there's a lot of commercial crap, but these were not in that
category. I was impressed with the selection of pictures, found the
pictures and comments interesting - the blurb on it stated that
Impressionism was recieved widely early on in the US. Therefore, I
expect there to be other noted minor Impressionists other than just
Cassatt. I have to contact my sister to get a list.
When we get to more modern art, well, O'Keefe does not fully strike my
fancy (and it must be admitted that she tends towards close-in detail
of flowers, though has painted more landscapes). I don't consider
myself as knowledgeable in the visual arts as in music, for
example. But certainly she is generally considered as a major artist,
your opinions nothwithstanding. As for commercial, isn't Warhol often
characterized as a purveyor of "Pop Art?"
--
Timothy M. Watson Something there is that doesn't
tmwa...@engin.umich.edu love a wall, that wants it down.
BioEngineering Program Grad Student __/| -Robert Frost, 'Mending Fences'
OPINIONS WILL NOT COINCIDE WITH OFFICIAL POSITIONS TAKEN BY U of Michigan
Pertsel Vladimir
In article <CzJEq...@hawnews.watson.ibm.com>, mest...@tfkiev.btv.ibm.com (Russ Mestechkin) writes:
|> P.S. I also wonder why the guys from Israel, who apperently have much bigger
|> problems then speed limits, can rarely be heard bitching on the Net? And
|> someone was saying that Jews are the once who are never happy...
May be because the israel Itself is complaining with respect to us:
the newcomers had immideately started to teach them how to live.
And I can't say, that without success --- there are some bus lines that
continue their work on Saturdays, but it leaves no time to complain.
--
/\ /\ Vladimir A. Pertsel
((ovo)) Tel:(972) 03-5600253 (res.) 08-434303 (bus.)
():::() URL ftp://ftp.wisdom.weizmann.ac.il/pub/voldemar/pertsel.html
PVA E-mail: vold...@wisdom.weizmann.ac.il
George Chesakov
|> In article <1994Nov20.0...@Princeton.EDU> ches...@tucson.princeton.edu (George Chesakov) writes:
|>
|> >Gmm.. a oni voobsche est'? I mnogo li Russkih kartin
|> >na zapade voobsche? I esli est', to gde? A to impressionisty
|> >na kazhdom uglu, a nashih net (ni doli sarkazma).
|>
|> Try Pompidu (sorry for spelling, Bouburg is beyond me, too) center in Paris,
|> you will find the situation reversed.
OK. Though Paris is a bit far for me now, ja uchtu.
Is Pompidou Center dedicated to modern art?
And what kind of Russians is represented there?
BTW, what is Bouburg?
--
naive
If the fool would persist in his folly he would become wise.
--- William Blake