What is Islam?

[BV BV]

What is Islam?

In this episode Shaikh Yusuf Estes Explains the meaning of Islam in
detail.


http://youtube.googleapis.com/v/Gl-wuhzOkpo?rel=0



thank you

[killwhang]

A load of bollocks like all religion

[conway caine]

"killwhang" wrote in message
news:6d9f9c6e-3755-45b1...@googlegroups.com...

A load of bollocks like all religion

**Shall we reignite the "Atheism is a religion" debate?
Might be good for a few hundred posts.

[killwhang]

among idiots perhaps. To the vast majority of sane people, a negative belief is not a religion.

[killwhang]

On Monday, November 12, 2012 12:57:19 PM UTC+13, Fred J. McCall wrote:

> 'Belief'? So it's just another religious faith, then.
>
>
>
> --
>
> "The supreme satisfaction is to be able to despise one’s
>
> neighbour and this fact goes far to account for religious
>
> intolerance. It is evidently consoling to reflect that the
>
> people next door are headed for hell."
>
> -- Aleister Crowley

Speaking of idiots - eh. One is sure to appear!

[conway caine]

"killwhang" wrote in message
news:9f63c8cc-b443-4504...@googlegroups.com...

****The Atheists I've ran across seem very positive about their views.

[conway caine]

"Fred J. McCall" wrote in message
news:0qe0a8lis8jho883h...@4ax.com...

'Belief'? So it's just another religious faith, then.

***Yes sir, Fred.
They have an organization, membership roles, meetings, publications.
They even collect donations ("Tithes"?).
Sounds like a religion to me.

[conway caine]

"killwhang" wrote in message
news:54a99fd1-0b51-4578...@googlegroups.com...

On Monday, November 12, 2012 12:57:19 PM UTC+13, Fred J. McCall wrote:
>
>
> 'Belief'? So it's just another religious faith, then.

Speaking of idiots - eh. One is sure to appear!

****When in doubt, insult.............

[killwhang]

I hate to let ignorance get in the way of a good story, but you are way off the mark. A negative belief is not a blind faith as is a religion.
Otherwise people could claim all manner of rubbish. for example, I may claim that the green banana on your roof is influencing you write the crap you do. You cannot see it because it is invisible. You coming out and saying that no such banana exists does not constitute a religion!! It is always the person with the extraordinary belief who must provide proof. Of course nobody is saying that they cannot believe such things and if Fred wishes to worship the green banana he can also do so, but he cannot expect the rest of us to do so or influence his children with such rubbish.


Hardy

[Alan Smaill]

Right on cue!

--
Alan Smaill

[Unknown]

On Sun, 11 Nov 2012 19:08:34 -0700, Fred J. McCall
<fjmc...@gmail.com> wrote:

>killwhang <gyans...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Monday, November 12, 2012 12:57:19 PM UTC+13, Fred J. McCall wrote:
>>> killwhang <gyans...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >On Monday, November 12, 2012 5:42:46 AM UTC+13, conway caine wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> "killwhang" wrote in message
>>> >>
>>> >> news:6d9f9c6e-3755-45b1...@googlegroups.com...
>>> >>
>>> >> A load of bollocks like all religion
>>> >>
>>> >> **Shall we reignite the "Atheism is a religion" debate?
>>> >>
>>> >> Might be good for a few hundred posts.
>>> >
>>> >among idiots perhaps. To the vast majority of sane people, a negative belief is not a religion.
>>> >
>>>
>>> 'Belief'? So it's just another religious faith, then.
>>

>>Speaking of idiots - eh. One is sure to appear!
>>
>

>Yes, and so you did.
>
>--
>"Some people get lost in thought because it's such unfamiliar
> territory."
> --G. Behn

Hey fattie, did you turn into a dough-nut yet?

max.it (the orange cage)

[Unknown]

On Mon, 12 Nov 2012 09:00:09 -0800 (PST), killwhang
<gyans...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Tuesday, November 13, 2012 5:33:56 AM UTC+13, conway caine wrote:

>> "Fred J. McCall" wrote in message=20
>>=20
>> news:0qe0a8lis8jho883h...@4ax.com...
>>=20
>> killwhang <gyans...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>=20

>> >On Monday, November 12, 2012 5:42:46 AM UTC+13, conway caine wrote:

>>=20
>>=20
>>=20

>> >> **Shall we reignite the "Atheism is a religion" debate?

>>=20
>> >>
>>=20

>> >> Might be good for a few hundred posts.

>>=20
>> >
>>=20
>> >among idiots perhaps. To the vast majority of sane people, a negative=20
>>=20

>> >belief is not a religion.

>>=20
>> >
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20

>> 'Belief'? So it's just another religious faith, then.

>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> ***Yes sir, Fred.
>>=20

>> They have an organization, membership roles, meetings, publications.

>>=20

>> They even collect donations ("Tithes"?).

>>=20

>> Sounds like a religion to me.
>

>I hate to let ignorance get in the way of a good story, but you are way off=

> the mark. A negative belief is not a blind faith as is a religion.

>Otherwise people could claim all manner of rubbish. for example, I may clai=
>m that the green banana on your roof is influencing you write the crap you =
>do. You cannot see it because it is invisible. You coming out and saying th=
>at no such banana exists does not constitute a religion!! It is always the =
>person with the extraordinary belief who must provide proof. Of course nobo=
>dy is saying that they cannot believe such things and if Fred wishes to wor=
>ship the green banana he can also do so, but he cannot expect the rest of u=

>s to do so or influence his children with such rubbish.
>
>
>Hardy

I believe that Edwin Barnes is God. Shhhhhh, don't wake him up.

max.it (the orange cage)

[killwhang]

On Wednesday, November 14, 2012 1:15:12 AM UTC+13, Fred J. McCall wrote:
> killwhang <gyans...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> >
>

> >I hate to let ignorance get in the way of a good story,
>
> >but you are way off the mark. A negative belief is not
>
> >a blind faith as is a religion.
>
> >
>
>
>

> Sure it is. Can you prove that there are no gods? PROVE it?
>
>
>
> A 'belief' is a 'belief'. There is a difference between a lack of
>
> belief and a belief in a lack. Atheists (particularly those who
>
> protest that it is NOT a religion) tend to fall into the latter
>
> category.
>

If it were true that a non-belief was a religion then I would say that I was religious in every sense. However, it is accepted in the scientific world that proof is required and the burden of such proof always lies with the people making the extraordinary claims - got it?? The acceptance (not belief) that there are no Deities is not an extraordinary belief. It would have been 4-500 year ago maybe or more. we have moved on since those days. This is really not an issue Fred - you are being quite daft.

[killwhang]

On Wednesday, November 14, 2012 5:14:56 PM UTC+13, Fred J. McCall wrote:
> killwhang <gyans...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> >
>
> >If it were true that a non-belief was a religion then I would say
>
> >that I was religious in every sense.
>
> >
>
>
>

> And so you are.

>
>
>
> >
>
> >However, it is accepted in the scientific world that proof is required
>
> >and the burden of such proof always lies with the people making the
>
> >extraordinary claims - got it??
>
> >
>
>
>

> Yep, I do. Atheists being in the minority, their extraordinary claim
>
> that there are no deities requires proof. We'll wait for you to trot
>
> that out.

>
>
>
> >
>
> >The acceptance (not belief) that there are no Deities is not an
>
> >extraordinary belief.
>
> >
>
>
>

> You yourself described it as 'faith'. So you've got no better grounds
>
> for your claims than any other religionist.

>
>
>
> >
>
> >It would have been 4-500 year ago maybe
>
> >or more. we have moved on since those days. This is really not
>
> >an issue Fred - you are being quite daft.
>
> >
>
>
>

> The usual. DeadDick can't prove the claims that have been coming out
>
> of his mouth, so he tries misdirection via insult.
>


You are obviously so dense that you cannot comprehend a simple argument.
I have tried to explain it to you but you lack the basic intelligence to understand. Well I tried at least but I realise that others have failed in the past and you may well be beyond educating.

Hardy

[killwhang]

On Wednesday, November 14, 2012 5:14:56 PM UTC+13, Fred J. McCall wrote:
> killwhang <gyans...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> >
>
> >If it were true that a non-belief was a religion then I would say
>
> >that I was religious in every sense.
>
> >
>
>
>

> And so you are.

>
>
>
> >
>
> >However, it is accepted in the scientific world that proof is required
>
> >and the burden of such proof always lies with the people making the
>
> >extraordinary claims - got it??
>
> >
>
>
>

> Yep, I do. Atheists being in the minority, their extraordinary claim
>
> that there are no deities requires proof. We'll wait for you to trot
>
> that out.
>
>
>
> >
>

> >The acceptance (not belief) that there are no Deities is not an
>
> >extraordinary belief.
>
> >
>
>
>

> You yourself described it as 'faith'. So you've got no better grounds
>
> for your claims than any other religionist.
>
>
>
> >
>

> >It would have been 4-500 year ago maybe
>
> >or more. we have moved on since those days. This is really not
>
> >an issue Fred - you are being quite daft.
>
> >
>
>
>

> The usual. DeadDick can't prove the claims that have been coming out
>
> of his mouth, so he tries misdirection via insult.
>
>
>

> --


and since I have clearly failed as a teacher to get across my point, maybe an amusing video will help...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8U_JveHS8E


Atheism is to a religion as Abstinence is to a sex position!

[killwhang]

On Sunday, November 11, 2012 2:19:36 AM UTC+13, BV BV wrote:

You still don't get it or are you really that thick??? I don't have to prove anything - theists do!! However, I would quote Arfur C Clark who claimed that if an ET race was a long way ahead of us in technology, we may well call them Gods since their technology could not be separated from what we may see as magic.


Hardy

[conway caine]

"killwhang" wrote in message
news:b2368aa9-16d3-4b81...@googlegroups.com...

On Tuesday, November 13, 2012 5:33:56 AM UTC+13, conway caine wrote:
>
> They have an organization, membership roles, meetings, publications.
>
> They even collect donations ("Tithes"?).
>
> Sounds like a religion to me.

I hate to let ignorance get in the way of a good story, but you are way off
the mark. A negative belief is not a blind faith as is a religion.

****Beliefs are beliefs, Heid.
You cannot prove your beliefs and I cannot prove mine.
Still.....we both believe.

[conway caine]

"Alan Smaill" wrote in message news:fwe8va6...@liles.inf.ed.ac.uk...

"conway caine" <conwa...@bellsouth.net> writes:
> "killwhang" wrote in message

>> 'Belief'? So it's just another religious faith, then.
>
> Speaking of idiots - eh. One is sure to appear!
>
> ****When in doubt, insult.............

Right on cue!

****I do have a propensity to field the easy ones...........

[conway caine]

"max.it" wrote in message news:50a18adb...@news.btinternet.com...

On Mon, 12 Nov 2012 09:00:09 -0800 (PST), killwhang

>> "Fred J. McCall" wrote in message=20

I believe that Edwin Barnes is God. Shhhhhh, don't wake him up.

****Off to Google then.
Oh! That Edwin Barnes

[conway caine]

"Fred J. McCall" wrote in message

news:e0e4a8ttc4oma95i4...@4ax.com...

"conway caine" <conwa...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>"killwhang" wrote in message

>among idiots perhaps. To the vast majority of sane people, a negative
>belief
>is not a religion.
>
>****The Atheists I've ran across seem very positive about their views.
>

So many devout atheists want to cloud the issue by pretending that a
lack of faith is the same thing as faith of a lack.

****An astute observation, Fred.

[conway caine]

"killwhang" wrote in message
news:6ee80fb2-4c43-4093...@googlegroups.com...

*****I think Fred has stated his case very well.
You, on the other hand......................

[conway caine]

"killwhang" wrote in message
news:d640e3f8-311e-44dc...@googlegroups.com...

On Wednesday, November 14, 2012 5:14:56 PM UTC+13, Fred J. McCall wrote:


Atheism is to a religion as Abstinence is to a sex position!

****Abstinence IS taking a position on sex........

[conway caine]

"killwhang" wrote in message
news:af0c7dcb-3eb3-41f9...@googlegroups.com...

On Sunday, November 11, 2012 2:19:36 AM UTC+13, BV BV wrote:

You still don't get it or are you really that thick??? I don't have to prove
anything - theists do!!

***Actually no.
"Theists" simply believe.
It's the Atheists who are leaping about, gibbering and shaking with fury
because Theists believe.
Is it because YOUR faith might be threatened????

[killwhang]

On Friday, November 16, 2012 4:44:20 AM UTC+13, conway caine wrote:

>
>
>
> ****Beliefs are beliefs, Heid.
>
> You cannot prove your beliefs and I cannot prove mine.
>

Dunno what your Heid has to do with the argument but you are still quite wrong.
I do not have a belief because you cannot believe a negative, otherwise I could say you believe in the non-fairy at the bottom of your garden!! Now don't be silly and go and annoy some tourists or something you sill redneck.


Hardy

[killwhang]

I don't a toss what idiots believe in, fairies,Gods or goblins.
You still have not grasped the very basic scientific method have you?
You must provide evidence if your claim is extraordinary. My claim is
for status quo and has no wild beliefs. I do not have to prove anything.


Hardy

[killwhang]

On Friday, November 16, 2012 4:27:16 PM UTC+13, Fred J. McCall wrote:

> Except your claim isn't for 'status quo'. You are making a minority
>
> claim, which therefore makes YOUR claim the extraordinary claim.
>
Minority Claim - please explain what my "minority claim" is?
I understood I made no claims at all, do tell?

You seem to think if that 90% of a population believe in Santa Clause then that makes it right??!!! (and the remaining 10% must be wrong) Tell me, were you disappointed as a child when you were told there was no Santa?? Or did you argue with your parents? You are mixing up what is known as popular belief and myth with scientific fact. It does not matter that (say) 1 billion Hindus believe in reincarnation, they would still have to prove that this is true and it is an extraordinary claim.


Hardy

[conway caine]

"killwhang" wrote in message
news:0e30d2bf-f86a-4db2...@googlegroups.com...

****Why, when I have you to plague?

[conway caine]

"killwhang" wrote in message
news:3077a4de-b159-4888...@googlegroups.com...

On Friday, November 16, 2012 4:54:01 AM UTC+13, conway caine wrote:

I don't a toss what idiots believe in, fairies,Gods or goblins.
You still have not grasped the very basic scientific method have you?
You must provide evidence if your claim is extraordinary.

***They claim the existence of dark matter and dark energy.
Can't prove it but they believe it exists.
They hypothesize.
Such an approach is fundamental to the Scientific Method.
So much for your argument then...............

[killwhang]

The dark matter thing is only a hypothesis to try and explain the missing mass in the universe. My understanding is that proof of this claim has not been found and that therefore another explanation will probably be sought.
Now here is the big difference - in the Scientific method, without proof or verification ideas are changed. It is not a matter of belief. the dark matter thing is an extraordinary claim and there is no evidence - so it will most likely be dropped. You can discuss it of course but we don't worship it or claim it sends us supernatural healing or the like. This is not religion.

[killwhang]

On Saturday, November 17, 2012 6:36:55 AM UTC+13, Fred J. McCall wrote:
> killwhang <gyans...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> >On Friday, November 16, 2012 4:27:16 PM UTC+13, Fred J. McCall wrote:
>
> >> killwhang <gyans...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>
>
> >> >On Friday, November 16, 2012 4:54:01 AM UTC+13, conway caine wrote:
>
> >>
>
> >> >> "killwhang" wrote in message
>
> >> >>
>
> >> >> news:af0c7dcb-3eb3-41f9...@googlegroups.com...
>
> >> >>
>
> >> >> On Sunday, November 11, 2012 2:19:36 AM UTC+13, BV BV wrote:
>
> >> >>
>
> >> >> You still don't get it or are you really that thick??? I don't have to prove
>
> >> >> anything - theists do!!
>
> >> >>
>
> >> >> ***Actually no.
>
> >> >>
>
> >> >> "Theists" simply believe.
>
> >> >>
>
> >> >> It's the Atheists who are leaping about, gibbering and shaking with fury
>
> >> >> because Theists believe.
>
> >> >>
>
> >> >> Is it because YOUR faith might be threatened????
>
> >> >
>
> >> >I don't a toss what idiots believe in, fairies,Gods or goblins.
>
> >> >You still have not grasped the very basic scientific method have you?
>
> >> >You must provide evidence if your claim is extraordinary. My claim is
>
> >> >for status quo and has no wild beliefs. I do not have to prove anything.
>
> >> >
>
> >>
>
> >> Except your claim isn't for 'status quo'. You are making a minority
>
> >> claim, which therefore makes YOUR claim the extraordinary claim.
>
> >>
>
> >
>
> >Minority Claim - please explain what my "minority claim" is?
>
> >I understood I made no claims at all, do tell?
>
> >
>
>
>

> Your claim is that deities do not exist. The majority say that they
>
> do.

>
>
>
> >
>
> >You seem to think if that 90% of a population believe in Santa
>
> >Clause then that makes it right??!!! (and the remaining 10% must
>
> >be wrong)
>
> >
>
>
>

> Fortunately, I don't feel particularly responsible for how things
>
> 'seem' to you. I'm only responsible for what I say, not for the
>
> stupid inferences you elect to draw.

>
>
>
> >
>
> >You are mixing up what is known as popular belief and myth with
>
> >scientific fact.
>
> >
>
>
>

> No. You are mixing up science and religion, while not understanding
>
> science. Science has no such rule as the one you keep trying to cite
>
> about how "the extraordinary claim requires proof (with inference that
>
> others do not)".

>
>
>
> >
>
> >It does not matter that (say) 1 billion Hindus
>
> >believe in reincarnation, they would still have to prove that
>
> >this is true
>
> >
>
>
>

> And so does the person making the counter claim have to prove that
>
> their claim is true.
>
>
>
> >
>
> >... and it is an extraordinary claim.
>
> >
>
>
>
> Nonsense. It is a claim. Exactly like your claim. If they must
>
> provide proof, so must you. If YOUR rule (not science's) is that
>
> "only extraordinary claims require proof", then the minority claim is
>
> obviously the 'extraordinary' one and deists don't need to prove
>
> anything and you do.
>
>
>
Fred, in case it has escaped you, we no longer live in the dark ages when a person had to prove that he/she was not a witch! Your level of intelligence is hardly high enough to hold a decent discussion. If you believe in rubbish then you must back up your claims to others who don't. not that I care if you do believe in Santa.

[Unknown]

This one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yC69bCqjuG4

max.it (the orange cage)

[killwhang]

> DeadDick, in case it has escaped you, no one ever said we did and you
>
> are engaging in yet another total non sequitur.

>
>
>
> >
>
> >Your level of intelligence is hardly high enough to hold a decent
>
> >discussion.
>
> >
>
>
>

> Yet you're the one who has to resort to insult because you're too
>
> bloody stupid to understand what's said to you or to understand how
>
> the 'science' you're trying to hide behind actually works.

>
>
>
> >
>
> >If you believe in rubbish then you must back up your claims to
>
> >others who don't. not that I care if you do believe in Santa.
>
> >
>
>
>

> Quite right. One man's trash is another man's treasure (and vice
>
> versa). I'm still waiting for you to present your proof for the
>
> rubbish YOU have faith in.
>
>
You can't handle the truth fred! You don't have the brains!! Why do you think you are known as Brain Dead Fred!! I have explained it again and again and you cannot follow. I have even shown you a video. Now go and do something more at your level like farting in a paper bag.

[killwhang]

> DeadDick, in case it has escaped you, no one ever said we did and you
>
> are engaging in yet another total non sequitur.
>
>
>
> >
>

> >Your level of intelligence is hardly high enough to hold a decent
>
> >discussion.
>
> >
>
>
>

> Yet you're the one who has to resort to insult because you're too
>
> bloody stupid to understand what's said to you or to understand how
>
> the 'science' you're trying to hide behind actually works.
>
>
>
> >
>

> >If you believe in rubbish then you must back up your claims to
>
> >others who don't. not that I care if you do believe in Santa.
>
> >
>
>
>

> Quite right. One man's trash is another man's treasure (and vice
>
> versa). I'm still waiting for you to present your proof for the
>
> rubbish YOU have faith in.
>

Perhaps it would also help to examine what a religion is. The Encyclopedia of Philosophy, in its article on Religion, lists some characteristics of religions. The more markers that are present in a belief system, the more "religious like" it is. Because it allows for broader grey areas in the concept of religion, I prefer this over more simplistic definitions we can find in basic dictionaries. Read the list and see how atheism fares :

Belief in supernatural beings (gods).
A distinction between sacred and profane objects.
Ritual acts focused on sacred objects.
A moral code believed to be sanctioned by the gods.
Characteristically religious feelings (awe, sense of mystery, sense of guilt, adoration), which tend to be aroused in the presence of sacred objects and during the practice of ritual, and which are connected in idea with the gods.
Prayer and other forms of communication with gods.
A world view, or a general picture of the world as a whole and the place of the individual therein. This picture contains some specification of an over-all purpose or point of the world and an indication of how the individual fits into it.
A more or less total organization of one's life based on the world view.
A social group bound together by the above.
To try and claim that atheism is a religion requires, it should be pretty obvious from the above, a radical ad hoc redefinition in what it is that "being a religion" is supposed to mean, resulting in a radically equivocal use of the new term-- if atheism is a religion, then just what isn't a religion?

[killwhang]

On Saturday, November 17, 2012 9:59:16 PM UTC+13, Fred J. McCall wrote:
> If you don't manage to fix your broken formatting, I'm going to quit
>
> bothering with you. I'm tired of fixing it for you.
>
>
>
You mentioned Buddism and Atheism. How ignorant can you get!??

You have obviously never been in a Buddist temple (I have) and seen the ritual that they have ringing bells all day and chanting. They also believe in reincarnation, that the soul travels to monkeys and insects etc on the way up.

I expect you will ask me to prove to you that they are wrong which idiots like yourself do. I would say, if you see a complete lunatic in the street who says he wants to kill you because God told him to, would you accept that too? Would you expect the police to prove that he was wrong in court or accept that it was all God! I think that even somebody with your simple intelligence would accept that
the lunatic had got it wrong and the court did not have to prove that it was God who put him up to it.


Hardy

[conway caine]

"killwhang" wrote in message
news:11de1e81-81d5-4be4...@googlegroups.com...

***Come now, Heid. Many scientists "believe" in the existence of both Dark
Matter and Dark energy.
Even though they cannot prove it.
And there are anomalies out there which tend to support the hypothesis.

[conway caine]

"max.it" wrote in message news:50a6b5cf...@news.btinternet.com...

On Thu, 15 Nov 2012 10:46:47 -0500, "conway caine"
>

>****Off to Google then.
>Oh! That Edwin Barnes

This one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yC69bCqjuG4

*****Oh

[conway caine]

"killwhang" wrote in message
news:ec1a8de2-7b73-400f...@googlegroups.com...

>
>
You can't handle the truth fred! You don't have the brains!! Why do you
think you are known as Brain Dead Fred!! I have explained it again and again
and you cannot follow. I have even shown you a video. Now go and do
something more at your level like farting in a paper bag.

****Mind the blood pressure, Heid

[killwhang]

What is wrong with your Heid? Can it not follow a simple argument?

If you want scientists who believe idiotic things without proof then look no further than global warming caused by man.

I am happy to accept that there are some idiotic Scientists out there that sometime do treat a conjecture like a religion in that they cling to it until death. However, in the vast majority of cases this is not the case. This is more a matter of pride and their career. If you make your life out of saying man made global warming then you are not likely to want to say you are wrong. In that sense they are mimicking religion. A blind faith without proof. They do not worship or pray however and there is the dividing point. Hope yer Heid is better.


hardy

[killwhang]

On Sunday, November 25, 2012 7:37:25 AM UTC+13, Fred J. McCall wrote:

Well, if God put him up to it then surely he must be innocent!
After all, isn't God the creator and all knowing God - he must have his reasons and clearly led the man to do the deed.

As for atheists having strange rituals, maybe you can enlighten us on those as I am unaware of such rituals - do tell us what these rituals are - would they be getting up and going to work in the morning by any chance you moron?


Hardy

[conway caine]

"killwhang" wrote in message
news:b9366f78-2493-4033...@googlegroups.com...

****No, Atheists gather up in small groups and curse the Christians.

[Unknown]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyH2D4-tzfM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmkP5EyiwLU

max.it (the orange cage)

[killwhang]

On Sunday, November 25, 2012 8:43:44 PM UTC+13, Fred J. McCall wrote:

> killwhang <gyans...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> >On Sunday, November 25, 2012 7:37:25 AM UTC+13, Fred J. McCall wrote:
>
> >
>
> >Well, if God put him up to it then surely he must be innocent!
>
> >
>
>
>

> Oh? Why is that?

>
>
>
> >
>
> >After all, isn't God the creator and all knowing God - he must have
>
> >his reasons and clearly led the man to do the deed.
>
> >
>
>
>

> So what? If I have my reasons and I lead somebody to shoot you, do I
>
> get the medal or does he?

>
>
>
> >
>
> >As for atheists having strange rituals, maybe you can enlighten
>
> >us on those as I am unaware of such rituals - do tell us what
>
> >these rituals are -
>
> >
>
>
>

> You display them all, including your own religion-specific 'cant'.

>
>
>
> >
>
> >would they be getting up and going to work
>
> >in the morning by any chance you moron?
>
> >
>
>
>

> I think you'll find most of those folks doing that are deists, you
>
> dismal dimbulb.
>
>
>
> --
>
You make statements and are not capable of backing them up. Wild statements that atheists have rituals - yet you do not state what these rituals are.
Dumber and dumber! It's a sorry sight to see. no wonder you delete your posts after a few days, it is rather embarrassing for you.

[conway caine]

"killwhang" wrote in message
news:dbc4cc4b-7f16-4855...@googlegroups.com...

****One of your rituals is attacking anyone who paints your belief system as
a religion.
(Can you say "Knee Jerk"?)
;=)

[killwhang]

Were that true then it is not generic of all atheists and therefore not a ritual.
Most of em couldn't give a shit, but being caring I don't like you to be ignorant for all of your life.

[conway caine]

"killwhang" wrote in message
news:baf188ee-2d2b-4377...@googlegroups.com...

****The benighted I know spend a good deal of time and energy debunking the
beliefs of others.
All of yez are peas in a pod, I say.

[killwhang]

I am beginning to doubt what little faith I had in the US education system that brought people like yourself and Freddy into the world. To believe and worship in God is one thing and you are quite entitled to do so, but to claim that those who do not are somehow religious quite escapes me and the majority of the free thinking world. Exactly where do athesists go and pray? Who do they pray to?
What rituals do they all share? Cooking breakfast maybe - is that a religion by your yardstick?

[killwhang]

On Sunday, November 11, 2012 2:19:36 AM UTC+13, BV BV wrote:
> What is Islam?
>
>

>

>
>
>
> thank you


You show a total lack of understanding of almost everything. I don't know how you manage it. I used to think there was hope for thickies like yourself but I am no longer sure. You may need the frontal lobotomy.


Hardy

[conway caine]

"killwhang" wrote in message
news:3c04301b-0f11-477a...@googlegroups.com...

On Thursday, November 29, 2012 5:13:39 AM UTC+13, conway caine wrote:

> All of yez are peas in a pod, I say.d"

I am beginning to doubt what little faith I had in the US education system
that brought people like yourself and Freddy into the world. To believe and
worship in God is one thing and you are quite entitled to do so, but to
claim that those who do not are somehow religious quite escapes me and the
majority of the free thinking world. Exactly where do athesists go and pray?
Who do they pray to?
What rituals do they all share? Cooking breakfast maybe - is that a religion
by your yardstick?

*** "the majority of the free thinking world"?
How would you define "free thinking world?
Would that be limited to those who hold your views?
As to praying Atheists, do they not earnestly pray (read "Beseech") that all
Christians would disappear in a puff of smoke?

[conway caine]

"killwhang" wrote in message
news:30733dca-bbb9-4d49...@googlegroups.com...

*****You being an engineer, is this the best you can come up with as a
rebuttal to Fred's observations?

[killwhang]

i should have heeded my own advice, never argue with idiots, children or religious nutters. He is all three!

[killwhang]

There are many people in this world who are told things at birth and take it for granted that it is true without at least studying and researching it for themselves. Thinking and observing,researching and forming your own conclusions - this is free thinking. Many people have no problem when it comes to politics but their minds cannot stretch further. Politics is often a matter of opinion and morals and there is really no right or wrong. With science it is quite different. Do you believe like the early people of this planet that the earth is flat? if not why not? Do you think the earth is at the centre of the solar system and that all planets revolve around it? Catholics locked up Galileo for this line of reasoning. With enlightened thinking we would still be living in caves. Religion perhaps has a role to play and by all means pretend there is a "good" but not a God. I too can believe in Goodness and we need plenty of that. we don't need narrow-minded ideas that set one off against another however.

I was brought up believing in a God - was just told that this was how it was!!
I did question it of course and studied religious ideas for man years. I came to the conclusion that there cannot be a single God - Gods maybe, but not the Gods of the bible or any other religion. Any race with superior technology could be made to look like a God to those with little knowledge. Even clever tricks like Yuri Geller performs may make you think that there are such things as psychic forces at work. Many Indian God-men do fancy tricks to impress the public.

[killwhang]

On Saturday, December 1, 2012 11:45:55 AM UTC+13, Fred J. McCall wrote:

> killwhang <gyans...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> >On Friday, November 30, 2012 5:15:34 AM UTC+13, conway caine wrote:
>
> >> "killwhang" wrote in message
>
> >>
>
> >> news:3c04301b-0f11-477a...@googlegroups.com...
>
> >>
>
> >> On Thursday, November 29, 2012 5:13:39 AM UTC+13, conway caine wrote:
>
> >>
>
> >> > All of yez are peas in a pod, I say.d"
>
> >>
>
> >> I am beginning to doubt what little faith I had in the US education system
>
> >>
>
> >> that brought people like yourself and Freddy into the world. To believe and
>
> >>
>
> >> worship in God is one thing and you are quite entitled to do so, but to
>
> >>
>
> >> claim that those who do not are somehow religious quite escapes me and the
>
> >>
>
> >> majority of the free thinking world. Exactly where do athesists go and pray?
>
> >>
>
> >> Who do they pray to?
>
> >>
>
> >> What rituals do they all share? Cooking breakfast maybe - is that a religion
>
> >>
>
> >> by your yardstick?
>
> >>
>
> >> *** "the majority of the free thinking world"?
>
> >>
>
> >> How would you define "free thinking world?
>
> >>
>
> >> Would that be limited to those who hold your views?
>
> >>
>
> >> As to praying Atheists, do they not earnestly pray (read "Beseech") that all
>
> >>
>
> >> Christians would disappear in a puff of smoke?
>
> >
>
> >There are many people in this world who are told things at birth and
>
> >take it for granted that it is true without at least studying and
>
> >researching it for themselves.
>
> >
>
>
>

> Yes, and you would appear to be among them.

>
>
>
> >
>
> >Thinking and observing,researching and forming your own conclusions -
>
> >this is free thinking.
>
> >
>
>
>

> Right so far, despite your inability to actually do it.

>
>
>
> >
>
> >Many people have no problem when it comes to
>
> >politics but their minds cannot stretch further. Politics is often a
>
> >matter of opinion and morals and there is really no right or wrong.
>
> >
>
>
>

> The preceding is wrong. Besides, religion isn't politics.

>
>
>
> >
>
> >With science it is quite different.
>
> >
>
>
>

> Not as different as you seem to think, but we'll let that go and just
>
> note that religion isn't science, either.
>
>
>
> <snip DeadDick's mental masturbation>

>
>
>
> >
>
> >Religion perhaps has a role to play and by all means pretend
>
> >there is a "good" but not a God. I too can believe in Goodness and we
>
> >need plenty of that. we don't need narrow-minded ideas that set one
>
> >off against another however.
>
> >
>
>
>

> Yet your religion seems to insist on exactly that.

>
>
>
> >
>
> >I was brought up believing in a God - was just told that this was how it was!!
>
> >I did question it of course and studied religious ideas for man years.
>
> >I came to the conclusion that there cannot be a single God - Gods maybe,
>
> >but not the Gods of the bible or any other religion.
>
> >
>
>
>

> Your logical shortcomings aren't relevant to anyone but you. You will
>
> now proceed to demonstrate what I mean.

>
>
>
> >
>
> >Any race with superior technology could be made to look like
>
> >a God to those with little knowledge. Even clever tricks like
>
> >Yuri Geller performs may make you think that there are such
>
> >things as psychic forces at work. Many Indian God-men do
>
> >fancy tricks to impress the public.
>
> >
>
>
>

> And the preceding proves what, other than that there CAN be frauds. It
>
> certainly in no way proves there WERE frauds or disproves any
>
> particular religion. You seem to be trying to run the 'logic'
>
> backwards. What makes that particularly funny is that you proclaim
>
> yourself as 'logical'.
>
>
>
> --
Try and think things out for yourself man instead of having me spoon-feed you.
I have just finished organising and running a big engineering conference. The speakers have to all justify the work they present. We (the audience) can and frequently do challenge their ideas and they defend themselves with reasoned argument - not just 'I believe'!! The scientific world works through experiment, observation, theory and so on and most importantly, publishing open results for others to criticize.
This is in complete contrast to religious dogma which you propose. A blind faith. Now if you cannot see this then you need to go away and do some schooling, I cannot help you. We do not accept anything without some form of proof. Religion has no form of proof or evidence to present. Of course if you believe otherwise I would like to hear your arguments, but I expect to hear nothing from you. I cannot stand up and state that I believe in a new lifeform called a fairy, which is invisible, without evidence and I expect the same from you - so where is your evidence that your fairy God exists?


Hardy

[killwhang]

On Saturday, December 1, 2012 7:14:16 PM UTC+13, Fred J. McCall wrote:
> killwhang <gyans...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>

> Fix your formatting. I'm tired of doing it for you.

> How nice for you. Religion isn't engineering, either.

>
>
>
> >
>
> >The speakers have to all justify the work they present. We (the audience) can and frequently do challenge their ideas and they defend themselves with reasoned argument - not just 'I believe'!! The scientific world works through experiment, observation, theory and so on and most importantly, publishing open results for others to criticize.
>
> >This is in complete contrast to religious dogma which you propose. A blind faith. Now if you cannot see this then you need to go away and do some schooling, I cannot help you. We do not accept anything without some form of proof. Religion has no form of proof or evidence to present. Of course if you believe otherwise I would like to hear your arguments, but I expect to hear nothing from you. I cannot stand up and state that I believe in a new lifeform called a fairy, which is invisible, without evidence and I expect the same from you - so where is your evidence that your fairy God exists?
>
> >
>
>
>

> You mean it is in complete contrast to the religious dogma WHICH YOU
>
> ARE DISPLAYING HERE.
>
>
>
> You've made claims. PROVE THEM or admit that your 'rules' don't apply
>
> to YOUR religion (and by extension don't apply to anyone else's in
>
> your 'system').
>
I rest my case - thick as porridge!!

[conway caine]

"killwhang" wrote in message
news:77cd19e8-7f1e-4cc4...@googlegroups.com...

On Saturday, December 1, 2012 11:45:55 AM UTC+13, Fred J. McCall wrote:

so where is your evidence that your fairy God exists?

*****Where is your evidence that He does not?
And why should religious beliefs (of whatever stripe) pose such a threat to
your well engineered life????

[conway caine]

"killwhang" wrote in message
news:408043fb-3e28-4dcb...@googlegroups.com...

On Saturday, December 1, 2012 7:14:16 PM UTC+13, Fred J. McCall wrote:

>
I rest my case - thick as porridge!!

***That may well be the point Fred is making...................

[conway caine]

"killwhang" wrote in message
news:c67d3aac-8008-4ef2...@googlegroups.com...

****Not so. He is but having you on.
As am I.

[conway caine]

"killwhang" wrote in message
news:ac5ed1d8-6cfd-45e0...@googlegroups.com...

On Friday, November 30, 2012 5:15:34 AM UTC+13, conway caine wrote:

Catholics locked up Galileo for this line of reasoning.

****How long ago was that?????

[killwhang]

On Sunday, December 2, 2012 5:21:24 AM UTC+13, conway caine wrote:
> "killwhang" wrote in message
>
> news:ac5ed1d8-6cfd-45e0...@googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> On Friday, November 30, 2012 5:15:34 AM UTC+13, conway caine wrote:
>
>
>
> Catholics locked up Galileo for this line of reasoning.
>
>

A long time ago, but that's not the point. other religions such as Islam are still a good 500 years behind and would not think twice of cutting off your head for offending their religion. That doesn't make them any worse however, just a bit younger and less mature. they are all equally stupid and without reason.

[killwhang]

I know you are, but he is serious. You obviously don't know brain-dead Fred.


Hardy

[killwhang]

First of all I do not need to prove a negative as I have already explained ad-nausium. As for a threat to my life, religion locally around me is not. In an international sense it is a threat. Just look at the middle east. Look at innocent people being beheaded, teaching of creationalism in schools and even the recent case of the lady in Ireland who died because the religion said that there should be no abortions.
I have no objections to people believing in fairies, as long as it doesn't get in the way of common sense and is peaceful.
In fact there are many things about religious festivals that are quite pleasant and I have no objection. I don't object to people singing christmas carols for instance and santa-claus. (who fred still believes in). Live and let live by all means but make no mistake, religion can be dangerous in the wrong hands.

[killwhang]

On Sunday, December 2, 2012 9:02:42 AM UTC+13, Fred J. McCall wrote:

> And so DeadDick displays the very sort of unreasoning intolerance he
>
> claims to be against...
>
>
>
> --
>
Poor Fred, he's brain-dead!

[conway caine]

"killwhang" wrote in message
news:1d86f196-c7a1-4f69...@googlegroups.com...

On Sunday, December 2, 2012 5:21:24 AM UTC+13, conway caine wrote:
> "killwhang" wrote in message
>

A long time ago, but that's not the point. other religions such as Islam are
still a good 500 years behind and would not think twice of cutting off your
head for offending their religion. That doesn't make them any worse however,
just a bit younger and less mature. they are all equally stupid and without
reason.

***I seem to recall the avowed atheistic Soviet Union throwing Russian
Christians into lunatic asylums because of their beliefs.
So this particular behavior seems not to be isolated to religious systems.

[conway caine]

"killwhang" wrote in message
news:b76a8a14-e5e8-4d8e...@googlegroups.com...

****Better, perhaps, than you realize.
I've seen him take seven sides of a particular argument (a bit of an
exaggeration on my part) without necessarily holding fast to any of the
seven.
One thing I do know, Fred NEVER reveals his true position on any issue.

[killwhang]

On Monday, December 3, 2012 9:17:51 AM UTC+13, conway caine wrote:
> "killwhang" wrote in message
>
> news:1d86f196-c7a1-4f69...@googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> On Sunday, December 2, 2012 5:21:24 AM UTC+13, conway caine wrote:
>
> > "killwhang" wrote in message
>
> >
>
> A long time ago, but that's not the point. other religions such as Islam are
>
> still a good 500 years behind and would not think twice of cutting off your
>
> head for offending their religion. That doesn't make them any worse however,
>
> just a bit younger and less mature. they are all equally stupid and without
>
> reason.
>
>
>
> ***I seem to recall the avowed atheistic Soviet Union throwing Russian
>
> Christians into lunatic asylums because of their beliefs.
>
> So this particular behavior seems not to be isolated to religious systems.

You can see their point of view. Somebody who believes in fairies may well be mentally ill. However, I am neither proposing Soviet style reprisals as a solution. I said live and let live - but don't let them have power or we will have George Bush " God told me to bomb Iraq" situations.


Hardy

[killwhang]

On Monday, December 3, 2012 10:52:00 AM UTC+13, Fred J. McCall wrote:

> "conway caine" <conwa...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> >
>
> >One thing I do know, Fred NEVER reveals his true position on any issue.
>
> >
>
>
>

> Unless asked point blank. But people are so 'good' at jumping to
>
> conclusions based on their own silly stereotypes that practically no
>
> one does.
>
>
>
> --
>
> "Oooo, scary! Y'know, there are a lot scarier things
>
> in the world than you ... and I'm one of them."
>
Ok Fred, what is your position on a supreme God thingy?

[conway caine]

"Fred J. McCall" wrote in message
news:69jnb8ts945hnjnpn...@4ax.com...

"conway caine" <conwa...@bellsouth.net> wrote:

>
>One thing I do know, Fred NEVER reveals his true position on any issue.
>

Unless asked point blank. But people are so 'good' at jumping to
conclusions based on their own silly stereotypes that practically no
one does.

***On another note:
Tis sad to say but Soc.Culture.Irish has died.
Newsgroups are passing away.
A cultural Icon fades before our eyes,
Only the doughty Scots remain.
CURSE YOU, FACEBOOK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[conway caine]

"killwhang" wrote in message
news:01abdf62-a541-4494...@googlegroups.com...

*****Ah but Heid.
You know power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
And so it goes with the human species.
I'll not mention our other propensity, "Disagree with me and I will kill
you".

[killwhang]

On Monday, December 3, 2012 10:18:27 PM UTC+13, Fred J. McCall wrote:

> killwhang <gyans...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> >On Monday, December 3, 2012 10:52:00 AM UTC+13, Fred J. McCall wrote:
>
> >> "conway caine" <conwa...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> >> >
>
> >> >One thing I do know, Fred NEVER reveals his true position on any issue.
>
> >> >
>
> >>
>
> >> Unless asked point blank. But people are so 'good' at jumping to
>
> >> conclusions based on their own silly stereotypes that practically no
>
> >> one does.
>
> >>
>
> >
>

> >Ok Fred, what is your position on a supreme God thingy?
>
> >
>
>
>

> About the same as it is for every other religion, whether theist,
>
> polytheist, or anti-theist; no way to know. And I don't see much in
>
> the way of differences among all you folks who claim to know The
>
> Answer and want to proselytize for your beliefs. You're all a sharp
>
> pain in the arse and I wish you'd all just mind your own bloody
>
> business.
>
>
>
> --
>
> "The supreme satisfaction is to be able to despise one’s
>
> neighbour and this fact goes far to account for religious
>
> intolerance. It is evidently consoling to reflect that the
>
> people next door are headed for hell."
>
> -- Aleister Crowley

Hardly an answer. You have not answered the question - a good bit of fence sitting.

[killwhang]

On Tuesday, December 4, 2012 4:25:43 AM UTC+13, conway caine wrote:
> "killwhang" wrote in message
>
> news:01abdf62-a541-4494...@googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> On Monday, December 3, 2012 9:17:51 AM UTC+13, conway caine wrote:
>
> >
>
> > ***I seem to recall the avowed atheistic Soviet Union throwing Russian
>
> > Christians into lunatic asylums because of their beliefs.
>
> > So this particular behavior seems not to be isolated to religious systems.
>
>
>
> You can see their point of view. Somebody who believes in fairies may well
>
> be mentally ill. However, I am neither proposing Soviet style reprisals as a
>
> solution. I said live and let live - but don't let them have power or we
>
> will have George Bush " God told me to bomb Iraq" situations.
>
>
>
>
>
> *****Ah but Heid.

What's wrong with it? Too much Drink?

>
> You know power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
>
> And so it goes with the human species.
>
> I'll not mention our other propensity, "Disagree with me and I will kill
>
> you".

You are either for me or against me I think he said. No shades of grey. (not 50 at least).

[killwhang]

On Sunday, November 11, 2012 2:19:36 AM UTC+13, BV BV wrote:
> What is Islam?
>
>
>
> In this episode Shaikh Yusuf Estes Explains the meaning of Islam in
>
> detail.
>
>
>
>
>
> http://youtube.googleapis.com/v/Gl-wuhzOkpo?rel=0
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> thank you

Ok I will make it easier - do you believe in God - answer Yes or No -

[Jeffrey Hamilton]

killwhang wrote:

> On Thursday, November 29, 2012 5:13:39 AM UTC+13, conway caine wrote:
>> "killwhang" wrote in message
>>

>> news:baf188ee-2d2b-4377...@googlegroups.com...
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, November 27, 2012 5:16:26 AM UTC+13, conway caine wrote:
>>
>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>> ****One of your rituals is attacking anyone who paints your belief
>>> system
>>
>>> as
>>
>>>
>>
>>> a religion.
>>
>>>
>>
>>> (Can you say "Knee Jerk"?)
>>
>>>
>>
>> Were that true then it is not generic of all atheists and therefore
>> not a
>>
>> ritual.
>>
>> Most of em couldn't give a shit, but being caring I don't like you
>> to be
>>
>> ignorant for all of your life.
>>
>>
>>
>> ****The benighted I know spend a good deal of time and energy
>> debunking the
>>
>> beliefs of others.

>>
>> All of yez are peas in a pod, I say.
>

> I am beginning to doubt what little faith I had in the US education
> system that brought people like yourself and Freddy into the world.
> To believe and worship in God is one thing and you are quite entitled
> to do so, but to claim that those who do not are somehow religious
> quite escapes me and the majority of the free thinking world. Exactly
> where do athesists go and pray? Who do they pray to?
> What rituals do they all share? Cooking breakfast maybe - is that a
> religion by your yardstick?

I believe with Fredfreaka, it had less to do with education and more to do
with poor quality DNA from his particular gene pool.

cheers....Jeff

[killwhang]

On Tuesday, December 4, 2012 5:06:03 PM UTC+13, Fred J. McCall wrote:
> killwhang <gyans...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> >
>

> >Ok I will make it easier - do you believe in God - answer Yes or No -
>
> >
>
>


>

> Ok I will make it easier - have you stopped raping prepubescent
>
> children - answer Yes or No -
>
>
>
> --

Ok so now you have lost the argument. You cannot answer a simple civil question.
Yes you criticize others for their views. I assume you just take the opposite
point of view for no reason other than to troll.Goodbye troll.

Hardy

[conway caine]

"killwhang" wrote in message
news:19caa385-5a25-4cc7...@googlegroups.com...

On Tuesday, December 4, 2012 4:25:43 AM UTC+13, conway caine wrote:
> "killwhang" wrote in message

You are either for me or against me I think he said. No shades of grey. (not
50 at least).

****There can be no compromise when there is only black or white.
For examles, take a look at our Congress.

[conway caine]

"killwhang" wrote in message
news:4cc8b365-dd20-4d17...@googlegroups.com...

*****Are you sure you want to killfile Fred?
There's only about three of us left posting...............

[Unknown]

His head's too fat for the killfile.

max.it (the orange cage)