Army And Marine Snipers -- Doing A Great Job
D. Spencer Hines
This flaming arsehole, airheaded academic at the fifth-rate University
of Maryland, College Park -- Vincent BRANNIGAN -- STILL does not realize
we are AT WAR.
This is not some sort of Mock Court -- as shyster lawyer Brannigan
assumes it is.
This is a hard-fought WAR ---- WORLD WAR IV.
Pogue Brannigan needs to learn the Rules of Engagement for what has
become World War IV.
DSH
"Vince" <fir...@firelaw.us> wrote in message
news:ysOdnaMrhoj...@comcast.com...
| Grey Satterfield wrote:
| > On 8/4/05 12:00 AM, in article 42f19885.27193712@news, "Michilin"
| > <mic...@shaw.ca> wrote:
| >
| >>>Our Kaneohe Marine snipers just love this kind of talk.
| >>>
| >>>Semper Fidelis.
| >>
| >>Once you've hunted humans you'll never hunt anything else.
| >
| >
| > Jesus! *PLONK*!
| >
| > Grey Satterfield
| >
|
| From today's New York Times
|
|
| "last week, as an American bomb team was defusing a bomb in the
| predominantly Sunni Arab neighborhood of Amiriya in Baghdad, a passing
| black BMW opened fire on the unit and its security detail, according
to
| an after-action report. An Iraqi police detachment that was providing
| security for the team returned fire and struck the passenger in the
car
| in the chest, the report said.
|
| A few blocks away, American snipers were watching an Iraqi man who was
| stacking rocks along a street that the bomb disposal unit would drive
| down as it was leaving the neighborhood, according to the report. They
| suspected that he was building a hiding place for a bomb.
|
| "Snipers engaged and killed the individual, who appeared to be
emplacing
| an I.E.D.," the report says."
|
|
| This report, if correct and complete illustrates a core problem with
our
| tactics and strategy.
|
| If American snipers can simply shoot and kill anyone on suspicion,
| without warning, without explanation and without follow up to prove
that
| the killing was justified we can never stabilize the country.
|
| Vince
Gaoth na h-oidhche
"D. Spencer Hines" <pogue...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:5QuIe.181$aP2...@eagle.america.net...
> Damn!
>
> This flaming arsehole, airheaded academic at the fifth-rate University
> of Maryland, College Park -- Vincent BRANNIGAN -- STILL does not realize
> we are AT WAR.
>
> This is not some sort of Mock Court -- as shyster lawyer Brannigan
> assumes it is.
>
> This is a hard-fought WAR ---- WORLD WAR IV.
>
> Pogue Brannigan needs to learn the Rules of Engagement for what has
> become World War IV.
When was WW lll?
The Chief
/
/When was WW lll?/
Most consider the Cold War to have been WWIII.
Vince
> "D. Spencer Hines" <pogue...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:5QuIe.181$aP2...@eagle.america.net...
>
>>Damn!
>>
>>This flaming arsehole, airheaded academic at the fifth-rate University
>>of Maryland, College Park -- Vincent BRANNIGAN -- STILL does not realize
>>we are AT WAR.
personal abuse, as always the last refuge of those with nothing to add
>>This is not some sort of Mock Court -- as shyster lawyer Brannigan
>>assumes it is.
>>
>>This is a hard-fought WAR ---- WORLD WAR IV.
>>
>>Pogue Brannigan needs to learn the Rules of Engagement for what has
>>become World War IV.
note the total lack of content
What is the ROE
kill anything that moves?
or only the untermensch?
>
>
> When was WW lll?
>>|
>>| A few blocks away, American snipers were watching an Iraqi man who was
>>| stacking rocks along a street that the bomb disposal unit would drive
>>| down as it was leaving the neighborhood, according to the report. They
>>| suspected that he was building a hiding place for a bomb.
>>|
>>| "Snipers engaged and killed the individual, who appeared to be
>>emplacing
>>| an I.E.D.," the report says."
>>|
>>|
>>| This report, if correct and complete illustrates a core problem with
>>our
>>| tactics and strategy.
>>|
>>| If American snipers can simply shoot and kill anyone on suspicion,
>>| without warning, without explanation and without follow up to prove
>>that
>>| the killing was justified we can never stabilize the country.
>>|
>>| Vince
only in nazi lite land does being at war mean
"kill anyone in sight"
Im sure you all remember "Alice's restaurant"
Vince
Charles Ellson
<jsem...@jamadots.com> wrote:
<snip>
>
>When was WW lll?
>
Two years before the Merkan government made up its mind which side to
fight on ?
<snip>
--
_______
+---------------------------------------------------+ |\\ //|
| Charles Ellson: cha...@e11son.demon.co.uk | | \\ // |
+---------------------------------------------------+ | > < |
| // \\ |
Alba gu brath |//___\\|
Grey Satterfield
<fir...@firelaw.us> wrote:
> Gaoth na h-oidhche wrote:
. . .
> personal abuse, as always the last refuge of those with nothing to add
. . .
> note the total lack of content
>
> What is the ROE
> kill anything that moves?
> or only the untermensch?
That is why not only do I refuse to read the Corpulent Commander's posts but
go out of my way to elide his name from anything I post. Sheesh, what a
nasty, nasty piece of work the fellow is!
Grey Satterfield
Michilín
<jsem...@jamadots.com> wrote:
>
>"D. Spencer Hines" <pogue...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:5QuIe.181$aP2...@eagle.america.net...
>> Damn!
>>
>> This flaming arsehole, airheaded academic at the fifth-rate University
>> of Maryland, College Park -- Vincent BRANNIGAN -- STILL does not realize
>> we are AT WAR.
>>
>> This is not some sort of Mock Court -- as shyster lawyer Brannigan
>> assumes it is.
>>
>> This is a hard-fought WAR ---- WORLD WAR IV.
>>
>> Pogue Brannigan needs to learn the Rules of Engagement for what has
>> become World War IV.
>
>When was WW lll?
After World War Eleven, wasn't it? (WWII?)
Měcheil
S' an tir na deňir 's e 'n eug ar dualchas
In the land of tears death is our heritage
Gaoth na h-oidhche
"The Chief" <sea...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:HwvIe.4574$_41...@fe02.lga...
> /Gaoth asked: /
>
> /When was WW lll?/
>
> Most consider the Cold War to have been WWIII.
>
there?
D. Spencer Hines
take his reading of the ROE from a brief press account -- desperately
hoping Iraq will turn out to be "Another Vietnam".
He shares that attitude with his fellow malignantly ignorant
bogtrotter -- Teddy Kennedy.
Further, the United States would be equally foolish were we to publish
our precise ROE for snipers -- with all the qualifying details as to
when they can shoot and when they cannot -- so the terrorists know
precisely what they can do and cannot do -- and sea lawyers such as
Brannigan can try to nitpick the ROE -- from his perch safely ensconced
in his Ivory Tower.
Brannigan The Shyster betrays his colossal naivete and ignorance yet
again.
This is one major reason why DOD and CENTCOM do NOT talk about details
of military, naval and covert operations in progress -- to do so would
be quite foolish.
"Loose Lips Sink Ships".
D. Spencer Hines
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Vires et Honor
Vince Brannigan
> Damn!
>
> This flaming arsehole, airheaded academic at the fifth-rate University
> of Maryland, College Park -- Vincent BRANNIGAN -- STILL does not realize
> we are AT WAR.
>
Id like to suggest that you reset your computer clock to Earth Time
As to institutional quality, we believe in the practice of peer review.
Ive chaired the promotion and tenure committee in Engineering, so if you
will point out where you hold your tenured position Ill be able to
determine if you are on our list of peers.
Vince
Jack Love
East Germany, Korea, Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Viet Name, Cambodia,
Laos, Afghanistan, '67, Yom Kippur, Poland, East Germany, Moscow
martin reboul
"D. Spencer Hines" <pogue...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:5QuIe.181$aP2...@eagle.america.net...
> Damn!
Damn indeed Davey!
> This flaming arsehole, airheaded academic at the fifth-rate University
> of Maryland, College Park -- Vincent BRANNIGAN -- STILL does not realize
> we are AT WAR.
Too right - you tell him 'Commander'!
> This is not some sort of Mock Court -- as shyster lawyer Brannigan
> assumes it is.
>
> This is a hard-fought WAR ---- WORLD WAR IV.
World War IV ... um, did I sleep through one, only WWII is the last WW I
recall... the one with Hitler and the Japs?
> Pogue Brannigan needs to learn the Rules of Engagement for what has
> become World War IV.
And what rules are they Spency? Spot man in telescopic sight with towel on head
at over a mile, squeeze trigger gently and exchange high fives with rest of
platoon when head is removed from body? No questions about whether the guy had
just washed his hair..... it does happen, even in the Middle East.
Warning! Lightweights, wimps, softies and liberals DO NOT LOOK AT THIS ON ANY
ACCOUNT!
You have been warned....
http://poetry.rotten.com/failed-mission/
Well, he won't be causing any more mischief I suppose - maybe it will work in
the end, if they all put their heads up so obligingly?
You amaze me David, you really do. I have no cares about the 'civil rights' of
any suicide bomber or 'insurgent' bent on destruction - good riddance to bad
rubbish (and far better than paying for their food and providing Korans for the
bastards in jail I say)..... but lets just hope those little packages round his
chest aren't full of shop-lifted Nintendo games or stolen bicycle parts, eh?
I suppose it wouldn't bother you if they were, as he does look a bit suspicious,
even like that - and must have been up to no good?
Grim Cheers
Martin
PS Do any of you gun buffs know what sort of weapon/ammo was likely to have done
this job? I'd like to know, as it looks most effective for self defence and home
protection... must get some.
martin reboul
> Gaoth na h-oidhche wrote:
> > "D. Spencer Hines" <pogue...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:5QuIe.181$aP2...@eagle.america.net...
> >
> >>Damn!
> >>
> >>This flaming arsehole, airheaded academic at the fifth-rate University
> >>of Maryland, College Park -- Vincent BRANNIGAN -- STILL does not realize
> >>we are AT WAR.
>
> personal abuse, as always the last refuge of those with nothing to add
>
>
> >>This is not some sort of Mock Court -- as shyster lawyer Brannigan
> >>assumes it is.
> >>
> >>This is a hard-fought WAR ---- WORLD WAR IV.
> >>
> >>Pogue Brannigan needs to learn the Rules of Engagement for what has
> >>become World War IV.
>
> note the total lack of content
>
>
> What is the ROE
> kill anything that moves?
Only if it has a black 'tache... and then only with due care. It's open season
on beards however.
Vince Brannigan
you can throw the flag over a pile of manure all you want. you can then
hope people salute the flag and ignore the stench. But power corrupts
and absolute power corrupts absolutely. It is very hard for us to
convince the world to work up outrage at terrorists if they think that
we have the same regard for human life as the terrorists.
It's not enough to claim to be more civilized. We bear the burden of
proof that we are more civilized. We are supposed to have a conscience,
to value human life, unlike terrorists who kill without compunction. If
we kill people we bear the burden of proof that we have a right to do
so. Casual killings even in wartime tend to come back to haunt us
Vince
D. Spencer Hines
below.
He sounds like a none-too-bright ninth-grade debater.
Intellectual And Moral Bankrupty....
Plus -- he's drinking and posting again.
Bad Show.
Brannigan is obviously totally ignorant of ROE in a combat zone -- and
how they work.
DSH
"Vince" <fir...@firelaw.us> wrote in message
news:E7WdnSBOzvL...@comcast.com...
| And if he sees a guy in a marine uniform it might be a terorist posing
| as a marine
|
| so shoot him
|
| right?
|
| Vince
Gaoth na h-oidhche
"Jack Love" <jackxx...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:1n65f11n9ff3js2gp...@4ax.com...
Those were not "world wars".
Vince Brannigan
> Brannigan is reduced to posting rank idiocies and red herrings. See
> below.
>
> He sounds like a none-too-bright ninth-grade debater.
>
> Intellectual And Moral Bankrupty....
>
> Plus -- he's drinking and posting again.
>
> Bad Show.
>
> Brannigan is obviously totally ignorant of ROE in a combat zone -- and
> how they work.
you've claimed they are a deep dark secret and and when we kill innocent
locals thats just too freaking bad and the untermensch just better get
used to it.
vince
Doesnt...@nyway.com
Damn, That guy ran into the wrong man.That picture proves one thing
for sure. The only gun control needed was the ability to hit the
target.
I showed that picture to a friend who was a sniper in Nam and he said
just from looking at it he thought it probably was a .308. He said if
it would have been a .50 there probably wouldn't have been that much
of his face left. What an awesome picture. Somebody in the know should
put that on that terrorist web site.
Thanks to the men and women in the armed forces for helping keep our
country free!
Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.usenet.com
D. Spencer Hines
people post and what they say.
Anyone who disagrees with him is an Instant Nazi.
Intellectual And Moral Bankruptcy.
DSH
"Vince Brannigan" <ne...@firelaw.us> wrote in message
news:M_ydnZ2dnZ0MQW_PnZ2dnV0tb9-dnZ2dRVn-
y52...@comcast.com...
| D. Spencer Hines wrote:
| > Brannigan is reduced to posting rank idiocies and red herrings. See
| > below.
| >
| > He sounds like a none-too-bright ninth-grade debater.
| >
| > Intellectual And Moral Bankruptcy....
Vince Brannigan
> Yep, Brannigan is drinking and posting again -- and lying about what
> people post and what they say.
>
> Anyone who disagrees with him is an Instant Nazi.
>
> Intellectual And Moral Bankruptcy.
>
> DSH
all can note the lack of content
Vince
Jack Love
<jsem...@jamadots.com> wrote:
>
>"Jack Love" <jackxx...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>news:1n65f11n9ff3js2gp...@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 4 Aug 2005 17:39:05 -0400, "Gaoth na h-oidhche"
>> <jsem...@jamadots.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"The Chief" <sea...@charter.net> wrote in message
>>>news:HwvIe.4574$_41...@fe02.lga...
>>>> /Gaoth asked: /
>>>>
>>>> /When was WW lll?/
>>>>
>>>> Most consider the Cold War to have been WWIII.
>>>>
>>>The cold war was mostly spying/Espionage there was no real battles was
>>>there?
>>>
>>
>> East Germany, Korea, Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Viet Name, Cambodia,
>> Laos, Afghanistan, '67, Yom Kippur, Poland, East Germany, Moscow
>
>Those were not "world wars".
>
No, nitwit, those were battles in WWIII. We won the last one.
Gaoth na h-oidhche
Nitwit? East Germany, Korea, Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Viet Name, Cambodia,
Laos, Afghanistan, Poland, East Germany, Moscow. Battles I beg to differ.
D. Spencer Hines
and video coverage of the Battles of Guadalcanal Tarawa, Monte Cassino
and the D-Day Landings as we have today in Iraq?
Just imagine every single, individual American KIA was reported in
excruciating detail and we had had a Home Front as weepy, wimpy, wussy
and weak-minded as Pogue Vincent Brannigan -- our pusillanimous
University of Maryland professor -- currently in his cups.
We could never have won the war against Japan -- OR against Germany.
The weepy, wimpy, wussy Brannigans would have insisted we pull out, cut
and run.
Brannigan has even been so pig-ignorant as to declare that if our
casualties exceed the number we lost on 9/11 -- approximately 3,000
souls [which they undoubtedly will some day in the War On Terrorism,
World War IV] -- then the game is no longer worth the candle and we
should pull out, cut and run.
That's about the silliest jerkwater, knee-jerk-appeaser, quantitative
idiocy, Left-Wing policy prescription we have yet to see.
Can't you just imagine the reaction if some flakey, soft-headed,
slack-arsed academic had said the same thing in 1942 -- with reference
to our losses at Pearl Harbor?
That should give you some idea of just how ridiculous this Brannigan
flake is.
'Nuff Said.
Veni, Vidi, Calcitravi Asinum.
Fred J. McCall
news:feqdnducMuz...@comcast.com:
> personal abuse, as always the last refuge of those with nothing to
> add
Which he then follows with things like...
> note the total lack of content
>
>
> What is the ROE
> kill anything that moves?
> or only the untermensch?
... and ...
> only in nazi lite land does being at war mean
>
> "kill anyone in sight"
>
> Im sure you all remember "Alice's restaurant"
I guess Quibbling Vinnie just had nothing to add and had reached his
last refuge.
--
This space for let.
D. Spencer Hines
Pogue Brannigan is still confusing the American Courtroom with the
Battle of Iraq War Zone.
Soldiers and Marines are not in the business of taking sworn
depositions, collecting evidence and insuring a chain of custody for
said evidence every time they kill one of the enemy in the Combat Zone.
Get Real!
They are not defendants in a criminal trial.
They are authorized combatants in a war.
The Laws of War apply here -- not American Criminal Law.
But Brannigan is far too stupid a lawyer to know the difference.
IF our troops violate the Laws of War -- THEN criminal charges under the
UCMJ come into play -- and they have, when and where appropriate.
D. Spencer Hines
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Vires et Honor
"Vince Brannigan" <ne...@firelaw.us> wrote in message
news:cOudnZ2dnZ06SBf7nZ2dn...@comcast.com...
| BillC wrote:
|
| >
| > That's a lie. The snipers over there do their best not to kill
| > innocents. If you have proof of murder, then produce it.
| > This is a war not traffic enforcement.
| >
|
| The rule is the killer has to prove the shooting is justified. The
| killer has all the proof.
|
| Vince
sca...@bigpond.com
country free! "
The dead man in question was in your country, doing something to make
it less free? How very alarming.
Arved Sandstrom
Most consider it to have been the Cold War.
AHS
Arved Sandstrom
> > | >>>Our Kaneohe Marine snipers just love this kind of talk.
> > | >>>
> > | >>>Semper Fidelis.
> > | >>
> > | >>Once you've hunted humans you'll never hunt anything else.
As a former Marine in a combat MOS, I'd get rid of anyone who thinks in this
fashion in very short order. I wasn't quite able to follow the quoting -
main point, don't say Semper Fidelis after spewing sewage...that's for the
first person. You don't deserve to use the term.
As for the second quoter, get therapy, and I sincerely hope you are not in
the military, nor have ever been.
In any case, snipers don't think this way. So, basically, both of you are
idiots.
AHS
Josiah Jenkins
Brannigan <ne...@firelaw.us> :
<snip>
>
>you can throw the flag over a pile of manure all you want. you can then
>hope people salute the flag and ignore the stench. But power corrupts
>and absolute power corrupts absolutely. It is very hard for us to
>convince the world to work up outrage at terrorists if they think that
>we have the same regard for human life as the terrorists.
>
>It's not enough to claim to be more civilized. We bear the burden of
>proof that we are more civilized. We are supposed to have a conscience,
>to value human life, unlike terrorists who kill without compunction. If
>we kill people we bear the burden of proof that we have a right to do
>so. Casual killings even in wartime tend to come back to haunt us
That's like a breath of fresh air wafting through after all the cr*p
which has been thrown at us (Europeans) by many of your fellow
countrymen for expressing similar sentiments over the last two
and a bit years.
Let's hope the wind picks up !
-- JJJ
D. Spencer Hines
All we have is a press account.
Those are worthless.
We don't have the FACTS about the man allegedly "piling up rocks" and
the sniper who allegedly shot him -- so we shouldn't jump to
conclusions -- of ANY sort.
DSH
Jack Love
<jsem...@jamadots.com> wrote:
>
>"Jack Love" <jackxx...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>news:flg5f115begsjl4h6...@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 4 Aug 2005 19:56:42 -0400, "Gaoth na h-oidhche"
>> <jsem...@jamadots.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Jack Love" <jackxx...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>>>news:1n65f11n9ff3js2gp...@4ax.com...
>>>> On Thu, 4 Aug 2005 17:39:05 -0400, "Gaoth na h-oidhche"
>>>> <jsem...@jamadots.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>"The Chief" <sea...@charter.net> wrote in message
>>>>>news:HwvIe.4574$_41...@fe02.lga...
>>>>>> /Gaoth asked: /
>>>>>>
>>>>>> /When was WW lll?/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Most consider the Cold War to have been WWIII.
>>>>>>
>>>>>The cold war was mostly spying/Espionage there was no real battles was
>>>>>there?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> East Germany, Korea, Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Viet Name, Cambodia,
>>>> Laos, Afghanistan, '67, Yom Kippur, Poland, East Germany, Moscow
>>>
>>>Those were not "world wars".
>>>
>>
>> No, nitwit, those were battles in WWIII. We won the last one.
>
>Nitwit? East Germany, Korea, Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Viet Name, Cambodia,
>Laos, Afghanistan, Poland, East Germany, Moscow. Battles I beg to differ.
>
>
You can beg all you like. You quite clearly have no perception or
understanding of the history involved. Which renders you a nitwit for
venturing a completely stupid opinion.
Jack Love
Ahhh...never mind....I was going to point out where the wind came
from. But why bother.
>-- JJJ
Trumpet
So what did YOU do in the military Hinie?
Did you get to interpret the ROE for a conflict. NO? Were you in the
military? NO?
Have you even read the UCMJ? NO?
Are you just an armchair mili/politico quarterback with no experience in
either to backup what you say? YES?
Do mention if I'm mistaken.
I'm sure we'd all like to be regaled with your tales. You rankless amature.
Yer bud
Trumpet
"D. Spencer Hines" <pogue...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3pBIe.222$aP2...@eagle.america.net...
Trumpet
"Arved Sandstrom" <asand...@accesswave.ca> wrote in message
news:XpDIe.126227$wr.92062@clgrps12...
BRAVO! Well said!
Trumpet
Vince
Ideas and Ideology are perfectly legitimate targets. If you identify
yourself with an ideology I cant help it, but I do believe that all are
reformable and no error is inherent
Vince
Vince
> Nonsense!
>
> Pogue Brannigan is still confusing the American Courtroom with the
> Battle of Iraq War Zone.
>
> Soldiers and Marines are not in the business of taking sworn
> depositions, collecting evidence and insuring a chain of custody for
> said evidence every time they kill one of the enemy in the Combat Zone.
>
> Get Real!
>
> They are not defendants in a criminal trial.
>
> They are authorized combatants in a war.
>
> The Laws of War apply here -- not American Criminal Law.
>
> But Brannigan is far too stupid a lawyer to know the difference.
>
> IF our troops violate the Laws of War -- THEN criminal charges under the
> UCMJ come into play -- and they have, when and where appropriate.
>
my point is political
Unless we can show that killings are justified we lose the poltical battle.
We accused Saddam of killing Iraqis without justification.
If we want to crawl in the slime with Saddam we will do the same
Vince
Michilín
<asand...@accesswave.ca> wrote:
>[ SNIP ]
>> > | >>>Our Kaneohe Marine snipers just love this kind of talk.
>> > | >>>
>> > | >>>Semper Fidelis.
>> > | >>
>> > | >>Once you've hunted humans you'll never hunt anything else.
>[ SNIP ]
>
>As a former Marine in a combat MOS, I'd get rid of anyone who thinks in this
>fashion in very short order. I wasn't quite able to follow the quoting -
>main point, don't say Semper Fidelis after spewing sewage...that's for the
>first person. You don't deserve to use the term.
>
>As for the second quoter, get therapy, and I sincerely hope you are not in
>the military, nor have ever been.
On the contrary I have been in what you call "the military" - but not
yours, thank God, as I prize my life and limbs a great deal more than
your "military" seems to prize your young men's lives and limbs, what
with "friendly fire" and all the other garbage associated with the
American "military".
l even have some medals; a cross and some Mutt and Jeff jobbies.
"Once you've hunted humans you'll never hunt anything else" was
intended to be an amusing comment, but I forgot that humour is
unAmerican and unmanly.
In general, Scots tend to be much less emotional about death than
Americans and a great deal less hysterical. Conversely, news reports
such as the episode of the Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders fixing
bayonets and disemboweling 21 Iraqi insurgents are met with smiling
approval in Scotland and a feeling that the 80-odd insurgents who ran
away were cowardly scum for not staying around to see what their
intestines looked like hanging from a Scottish bayonet.
I believe that this difference in the way we look at the enemy is why
our soldiers are renowned worldwide for their fighting abilities and
why yours are not. This is not to say that I do not have tremendous
sympathy for the young National Guardsmen whose lives are being
squandered in Iraq through the incompetent leadership that seems to be
the hallmark of American military operations.
>
>In any case, snipers don't think this way. So, basically, both of you are
>idiots.
>
>AHS
>
>
In my experience, snipers have always been lonely, withdrawn
individuals, usually disliked and shunned by their mates. I understand
your snipers have a tendency to go postal rather more regularly than
ours do.
Rev. Měcheal MacPhŕdruig, DD, MA.
Principal Secretary to The Master,
The Scottish Legal Office for the
Suppression of Heretical and
Episcopalian Deviation.
Mound Place, (off The Royal Mile)
Edinburgh, Scotland EH1 2LX.
Turn in a friend!
0131-650-8933
inqui...@moundplace.god
Michilín
Michilín
<pogue...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Vincent Brannigan is also so stupid, venal and Anti-American he wants to
>take his reading of the ROE from a brief press account -- desperately
>hoping Iraq will turn out to be "Another Vietnam".
>
>He shares that attitude with his fellow malignantly ignorant
>bogtrotter -- Teddy Kennedy.
>
>Further, the United States would be equally foolish were we to publish
>our precise ROE for snipers -- with all the qualifying details as to
>when they can shoot and when they cannot -- so the terrorists know
>precisely what they can do and cannot do -- and sea lawyers such as
>Brannigan can try to nitpick the ROE -- from his perch safely ensconced
>in his Ivory Tower.
>
>Brannigan The Shyster betrays his colossal naivete and ignorance yet
>again.
>
>This is one major reason why DOD and CENTCOM do NOT talk about details
>of military, naval and covert operations in progress -- to do so would
>be quite foolish.
>
>"Loose Lips Sink Ships".
>
>D. Spencer Hines
>
>Lux et Veritas et Libertas
>
>Vires et Honor
>
Can we assume that the same rules apply to the torture and beating of
prisoners?
Michilín
<josiah-...@dsl.pipex.com> wrote:
Seconded. There's more than a whiff of the Argentinians about US
operations - the willingness to torture, the bodies clearly beaten to
death, etc.
Michilín
Allow me to present my understanding of the US military/civilian
posture:
If yo white, yo right.
If yo yellow, yo mellow.
If yo brown, stick aroun',
If yo black - GIT BACK!
Michilín
It had to have been a dumdum, or the perp had a defective skull. I
used to own a skull where you could see how my 7.5 mm bullet had gone
through the mouth and left a perfectly round exit hole at the back.
The skull wall at that point is a good 3/4 to 1 inch thick as the hole
clearly demonstrated. This is why some jurisdictions will charge you
with attempted murder if you fracture someone's skull with a baseball
bat - (American contract interrogators, please note!)
>
>Thanks to the men and women in the armed forces for helping keep our
>country free!
No problem - any time you're in trouble, call the British Army or the
French Foreign Legion - two great outfits, packed with real soldiers!
>
> Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
>----------------------------------------------------------
> ** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
>----------------------------------------------------------
> http://www.usenet.com
Rev. Měcheal MacPhŕdruig, DD, MA.
Michilín
Spencer, let me remind youi of an old British latrine graffiti..
You'd think by all this f*cking wit
That Shakespeare had been here to shit!
Some how the above just doesn't cut it.
Fred J. McCall
news:V4ydnckFJu0...@comcast.com:
> Fred J. McCall wrote:
>> Vince <fir...@firelaw.us> wrote in
>> news:feqdnducMuz...@comcast.com:
>>
>>>personal abuse, as always the last refuge of those with nothing
>>>to add
>>
>> Which he then follows with things like...
>>
>>>note the total lack of content
>>>
>>>What is the ROE
>>>kill anything that moves?
>>>or only the untermensch?
>>
>> ... and ...
>>
>>>only in nazi lite land does being at war mean
>>>
>>>"kill anyone in sight"
>>>
>>>Im sure you all remember "Alice's restaurant"
>>
>> I guess Quibbling Vinnie just had nothing to add and had reached
>> his last refuge.
>
> Ideas and Ideology are perfectly legitimate targets.
But not the way you do it.
> If you
> identify yourself with an ideology I cant help it,
But you CAN help YOU identifying people with an ideology, which is
what is really going on.
> but I do
> believe that all are reformable and no error is inherent
I'll believe that in theory, but I've seen far too many real-life
examples whose heads were permanently up and locked to believe it in
the real world.
You make noises like one of them, which is unfortunate.
Michilín
<pogue...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Can't you just imagine the impact, if we had had the sort of rapid audio
>and video coverage of the Battles of Guadalcanal Tarawa, Monte Cassino
>and the D-Day Landings as we have today in Iraq?
>
>Just imagine every single, individual American KIA was reported in
>excruciating detail and we had had a Home Front as weepy, wimpy, wussy
>and weak-minded as Pogue Vincent Brannigan -- our pusillanimous
>University of Maryland professor -- currently in his cups.
>
>We could never have won the war against Japan -- OR against Germany.
>
>The weepy, wimpy, wussy Brannigans would have insisted we pull out, cut
>and run.
>
>Brannigan has even been so pig-ignorant as to declare that if our
>casualties exceed the number we lost on 9/11 -- approximately 3,000
>souls [which they undoubtedly will some day in the War On Terrorism,
>World War IV] -- then the game is no longer worth the candle and we
>should pull out, cut and run.
>
>That's about the silliest jerkwater, knee-jerk-appeaser, quantitative
>idiocy, Left-Wing policy prescription we have yet to see.
>
>Can't you just imagine the reaction if some flakey, soft-headed,
>slack-arsed academic had said the same thing in 1942 -- with reference
>to our losses at Pearl Harbor?
One did - a guy called President Roosevelt.
His decision to cut and run rather than support the British attempts
to support the Poles by bombing the Nazis in Warsaw, made it easy for
Stalin to refuse to refuel the British bombers so they could return to
Britain. Roosevelt's last-second decision to betray his Allies by not
threatening to stop sending war materiel to Russia and by withdrawing
the US squadron designated to support the British was
apparently; based on fears of the popular vote if the US seemed to be
getting too deeply into the war. This act of political cowardice
allowed the Germans to murder most of Warsaw's citizens and the
Russians to occupy the city and all Eastern Europe.
Another little snippet not taught in American schools, I presume?
>
>That should give you some idea of just how ridiculous this Brannigan
>flake is.
>
>'Nuff Said.
>
>Veni, Vidi, Calcitravi Asinum.
>
>D. Spencer Hines
>
>Lux et Veritas et Libertas
>
>Vires et Honor
Rev. Měcheal MacPhŕdruig, DD, MA.
Michilín
<pogue...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Nonsense!
>
>Pogue Brannigan is still confusing the American Courtroom with the
>Battle of Iraq War Zone.
>
>Soldiers and Marines are not in the business of taking sworn
>depositions, collecting evidence and insuring a chain of custody for
>said evidence every time they kill one of the enemy in the Combat Zone.
And especially not when they kill civilians instead.
Have there been many cases of outright murder by your troops in order
to inflate the Iraqi body count as there was in Vietnam, or has body
counting been discredited because so many of the dead were childen,
rather than Viet Cong commandos?
>Get Real!
>
>They are not defendants in a criminal trial.
>
>They are authorized combatants in a war.
Ah yes - the famous cave-in by the UN, already staggering financially
because the US had not paid its share of the common expenses in years
unlike the rest of the world - how many billions do you owe now?
>
>The Laws of War apply here -- not American Criminal Law.
The Laws of War do NOT apply!
George Buish's infamous decision not to sign the last part of the
Geneva Convention because he KNEW that the US would pile up war crime
after war crime and fill the court at The Hague with the US military
top brass, took care of any international legal control over American
troops.
>
>But Brannigan is far too stupid a lawyer to know the difference.
>
>IF our troops violate the Laws of War -- THEN criminal charges under the
>UCMJ come into play -- and they have, when and where appropriate.
Alonmg with tengallions of whitewash deliverd evryday to the Couirts
Martial at Foprt Benning et al.
Please spare us the propaganda - we've been listening to it for years
and most of us can quote it verbatim.
>
>D. Spencer Hines
>
>Lux et Veritas et Libertas <- scrap this because it's a lie.
>
>Vires et Honor <- scrap this because it's a lie.
American honor is lying in a latrine in Guantanamo Bay.
>
>"Vince Brannigan" <ne...@firelaw.us> wrote in message
>news:cOudnZ2dnZ06SBf7nZ2dn...@comcast.com...
>
>| BillC wrote:
BillC - as far as I and I believe most of my fellow-Scots are
concerned, you are completely discredited as a believable witness.
NEVER have we known a nation that lies as much as Americans do. Not
even India was this bad. But, don't let us interrupt you; as they make
no difference to the defeat facing you.
This is like watching Vietnam all over again. Come back Ike; your
country needs you!
Michilín
wrote:
>OK Hinie,
>
>So what did YOU do in the military Hinie?
>Did you get to interpret the ROE for a conflict. NO? Were you in the
>military? NO?
>Have you even read the UCMJ? NO?
>Are you just an armchair mili/politico quarterback with no experience in
>either to backup what you say? YES?
>Do mention if I'm mistaken.
>I'm sure we'd all like to be regaled with your tales. You rankless amature.
"You rankless amature."
Yale, Harvard or The Bronx?
Rev. Měcheal MacPhŕdruig, DD, MA.
William Black
"Trumpet" <pro...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:HPudnZ2dnZ1-TM-inZ2dn...@comcast.com...
> OK Hinie,
>
> So what did YOU do in the military Hinie?
Much as I dislike David S Hines I'm afriad that he did serve in the US
military.
He was a full commander in the US Navy.
Details in the 'D Spencer Hines faq'.
--
William Black
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe
Barbeques on fire by chalets past the headland
I've watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off Newborough
All this will pass like ice-cream on the beach
Time for tea
William Black
"Michilín" <mic...@shaw.ca> wrote in message news:42f3614d.2354485@news...
>. Conversely, news reports
> such as the episode of the Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders fixing
> bayonets and disemboweling 21 Iraqi insurgents are met with smiling
> approval in Scotland and a feeling that the 80-odd insurgents who ran
> away were cowardly scum for not staying around to see what their
> intestines looked like hanging from a Scottish bayonet.
A bayonet designed in Nottingham (at the incredible cost of four million
quid) and made in Sheffield and issued to the whole of the bits of the
British army entitled to wear one can hardly be called 'Scottish'.
Vince
>
>>
>>Ideas and Ideology are perfectly legitimate targets.
>
>
> But not the way you do it.
>
>
>>If you
>>identify yourself with an ideology I cant help it,
>
>
> But you CAN help YOU identifying people with an ideology, which is
> what is really going on.
>
>
>>but I do
>>believe that all are reformable and no error is inherent
>
>
> I'll believe that in theory, but I've seen far too many real-life
> examples whose heads were permanently up and locked to believe it in
> the real world.
>
> You make noises like one of them, which is unfortunate.
ideas are ideas. mine are up for grabs or targets or abuse. so are
yours. The difference between us is that I feel that it adds nothing to
the debate over the ideas to make personally abusive comments.
like anyone I make errors. I do try to correct them
you state
"But you CAN help YOU identifying people with an ideology, which is
what is really going on."
This is unfortunately an ambiguous statement. if you mean identifying a
person as expressing an ideology yes, I do. I think its fair comment.
If you mean that I am stating qualities "of the person" separate from
holding the idea, I must disagree.
ideas are not the person. intelligent people can believe a wide variety
of things. i think some of the ideas are idiotic, but not the people.
If you believe I have abused you "personally" as opposed to abusing an
idea which you hold or express, say so and and I will happy to apologize.
Vince
Soren Larsen
> "Vince" <fir...@firelaw.us> wrote in message
> news:feqdnducMuz...@comcast.com...>>> news:5QuIe.181$aP2...@eagle.america.net...
>>>
>>>> Damn!
>>>>
>>>> This flaming arsehole, airheaded academic at the fifth-rate
>>>> University of Maryland, College Park -- Vincent BRANNIGAN -- STILL
>>>> does not realize we are AT WAR.
>>
>> add
>>
>>
>>>> assumes it is.
>>>>
>>>> This is a hard-fought WAR ---- WORLD WAR IV.
>>>>
>>>> become World War IV.
>>
>>
>>
>> What is the ROE
>> kill anything that moves?
>
> open season on beards however.
This guy seem to be discriminate:
"In a war marked by sectarian bombings and civilian casualties, Juba is
unusual in targeting only coalition troops, a difficult quarry protected by
armoured vehicles, body armour and helmets. "
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1542823,00.html
"Elusive sniper saps US morale in Baghdad
Commanders weigh their options as 'Juba' notches up more kills
Rory Carroll in Baghdad
Friday August 5, 2005
The Guardian
They have never seen Juba. They hear him, but by then it's too late: a shot
rings out and another US soldier slumps dead or wounded.
There is never a follow-up shot, never a chance for US forces to identify
the origin, to make the hunter the hunted. He fires once and vanishes.
Juba is the nickname given by American forces to an insurgent sniper
operating in southern Baghdad. They do not know his appearance, nationality
or real name, but they know and fear his skill.
"He's good," said Specialist Travis Burress, 22, a sniper with the 1-64
battalion based in Camp Rustamiyah. "Every time we dismount I'm sure
everyone has got him in the back of their minds. He's a serious threat to
us."
Gun attacks occasionally pepper the battalion's foot and mounted patrols,
but the single crack of what is thought to be a Tobuk sniper rifle inspires
particular dread.
Since February, the killing of at least two members of the battalion and the
wounding of six more have been attributed to Juba. Some think it is also he
that has picked off up to a dozen other soldiers.
In a war marked by sectarian bombings and civilian casualties, Juba is
unusual in targeting only coalition troops, a difficult quarry protected by
armoured vehicles, body armour and helmets.
He waits for soldiers to dismount, or stand up in a Humvee turret, and aims
for gaps in their body armour, the lower spine, ribs or above the chest. He
has killed from 200 metres away.
"It was the perfect shot," the battalion commander, Lt Col Kevin Farrell,
said of one incident. "Blew out the spine. "
Soren
Vince
> "Michilín" <mic...@shaw.ca> wrote in message news:42f3614d.2354485@news...
>
>
>>. Conversely, news reports
>>such as the episode of the Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders fixing
>>bayonets and disemboweling 21 Iraqi insurgents are met with smiling
>>approval in Scotland and a feeling that the 80-odd insurgents who ran
>>away were cowardly scum for not staying around to see what their
>>intestines looked like hanging from a Scottish bayonet.
>
>
> A bayonet designed in Nottingham (at the incredible cost of four million
> quid) and made in Sheffield and issued to the whole of the bits of the
> British army entitled to wear one can hardly be called 'Scottish'.
>
I think the custom, unless the quality of the weapon is at issue, is
that the weapon is identified with the actor not the maker. i.e. KONGO
was a japanese Battleship, not British
Vince
William Black
The Bayonet remains British, the soldiers remain British.
It is not normal to refer to, for example, The Green Howards as 'English
soldiers', or even 'Yorkshire soldiers', they, like the Argyles, are
British soldiers.
Michilín
It's a bit lonely being the voice in the wilderness, isn't it?
My grandmother and her sister went to prison twice for women's rights
when they were in their early 20s. These were well-brought up young
ladies who had attended finishing school, etc., but were force fed
with tubes jammed up their noses, then released from prison when it
became clear their lives were at risk and re-arrested and jailed again
when they had recuperated at home and were healthy again!
Both women were beaten up on several occasions by angry men. "We were
constantly sexually assaulted by men whose real agenda was perfectly
clear to us," my grandmother said. "They would snarl, 'This is what
you really want, isn't it!'" while the police, all men, stood by and
sniggered. As both ladies were slender and not especially tall, they
were easy and apparently attractive targets.
The fact that they were Mrs. Winston Churchill's cousins did nothing
to spare them from the full wrath of the law, or indeed of Mr. Winston
Churchill's scorn. They also ran a free abortion clinic with volunteer
doctors; a major criminal offence in those days - for working women,
whose only alternatives were possible death from having borne roo many
children on inadequate diets, or a coat hanger, backstreet abortion.
One night their father, a huge man like many Highlanders, perhaps 6'7"
or 6'8" was shocked to see a picture in his newspaper of my
grandmother hitting a policeman with a brick!
One of his (and of course my) ancestors was known two centuries
earlier as The Strong Minister, because he had led his flock into
battle with a Highland broadsword in one hand and a Bible in the other
and was a famous killer of Englishmen. My great-frandfather was not
dissimilar and he secretly went one night to sit in the balcony of an
old theatre where the Suffragettes were holding a meeting and watch to
get an idea of what his girls were up to.
The meeting grew stormy with men shouting obscenities and eventually
one man ran up into the stage, seized my grandmother by the hair and
punched her in the face. The old Dad leapt from the balcony onto the
stage and literally lifting the attacker of his daughter off his feet
with one meaty fist, punched him clean across the stage with the
other. "We thought he'd killed him for sure," said my grandmother,
smiling happily.
Then, clenching his stick, the old man turned to the audience and said
in his gentle Highland voice, "Is there anyone else who would care to
register an objection?" A chorus of "Naw, naw, Meenester!" echoed
round the hall and everyone made for the exit.
From that day on, the girls' father became a total and convinced
supporter of the Suffragette movement. The sight of the white-haired
giant marching at their head, scanning the crowd like a lion selecting
lunch, ensured that all further meetings and parades were conducted
with the utmost decorum! I had a picture of him glaring disbelievingly
into my pram, a tough looking customer, but it has long vanished. I
remember his wife well though, for I was 10 when she died. She always
wore black, ankle-length clothes; a genuine Victiorian-era lady whose
father fought in the Crimean War. (1854-1856), ten years before the US
Civil War
So Professior, you can see that your numbers may be few in this
battle, but you are on the side of the Angels!
As we say in Gaelic:
Claidheam mňr! - Cuir as da!
Sword! (charge!) - Kill him!
Vince
> "Vince" <fir...@firelaw.us> wrote in message
> news:HcWdnRqmJps...@comcast.com...
>
>>William Black wrote:
>>
>>>"Michilín" <mic...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
>
> news:42f3614d.2354485@news...
>
>>>
>>>>. Conversely, news reports
>>>>such as the episode of the Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders fixing
>>>>bayonets and disemboweling 21 Iraqi insurgents are met with smiling
>>>>approval in Scotland and a feeling that the 80-odd insurgents who ran
>>>>away were cowardly scum for not staying around to see what their
>>>>intestines looked like hanging from a Scottish bayonet.
>>>
>>>
>>>A bayonet designed in Nottingham (at the incredible cost of four million
>>>quid) and made in Sheffield and issued to the whole of the bits of the
>>>British army entitled to wear one can hardly be called 'Scottish'.
>>>
>>
>>I think the custom, unless the quality of the weapon is at issue, is
>>that the weapon is identified with the actor not the maker. i.e. KONGO
>> was a japanese Battleship, not British
>
>
> The Bayonet remains British, the soldiers remain British.
>
> It is not normal to refer to, for example, The Green Howards as 'English
> soldiers', or even 'Yorkshire soldiers', they, like the Argyles, are
> British soldiers.
I do recall the Irish Guards, Welch Fusiliers, the 51st Scottish
Division etc
Ill defer to the Scots on what they like to be called
Vince
William Black
>
> I do recall the Irish Guards, Welch Fusiliers, the 51st Scottish
> Division etc
>
> Ill defer to the Scots on what they like to be called
The problem is that what they like to be called varies depending on
circumstances.
To the Scots they're 'Scots' when they're doing something creditable,
they're 'evil Brits' when they're not...
Vince Brannigan
> "Vince" <fir...@firelaw.us> wrote in message
> news:laKdnQjK8M9...@comcast.com...
>
>
>>I do recall the Irish Guards, Welch Fusiliers, the 51st Scottish
>>Division etc
>>
>>Ill defer to the Scots on what they like to be called
>
>
> The problem is that what they like to be called varies depending on
> circumstances.
>
> To the Scots they're 'Scots' when they're doing something creditable,
> they're 'evil Brits' when they're not...
>
Last time i was in Glasgow , in my favorite Shawlands pub England
was/were playing Turkey in world football (soccer) The Scots present
were rooting not only for the turks to win but to use knives on the
English. when i suggested that breaking legs and arms would be
sufficient to disable the English i was greeted by a torrent of abuse
that would make the vilest poster on this newsgroup blush
But the Scots are good folk the USA was playing Scotland at Merrifield
and we were watching the game.. they agreed I dint have to buy a round
till the USA scored. by the time it was 50-0 and the usa scored they
had totally forgotten it was my turn
Vince
Fred J. McCall
news:42f39abb$0$63719$edfa...@dread15.news.tele.dk:
> He waits for soldiers to dismount, or stand up in a Humvee turret,
> and aims for gaps in their body armour, the lower spine, ribs or
> above the chest. He has killed from 200 metres away.
200 meters? He may be a soldier (given his choice of target) rather
than a terrorist, but it hardly takes a sniper to do that. Hitting
targets from 200 meters is 'standard range'.
Shit, I could teach my mother to do that.
Arved Sandstrom
[ SNIP ]
> Ill defer to the Scots on what they like to be called
Picts, or something like that.
AHS
D. Spencer Hines
thesis.
Snipers have such extraordinary skills there is an understandable
mystique about them -- which they understandably cultivate and husband.
They are ENVIED by the less competent -- as are members of Delta
Force -- and hated by many.
The Marine snipers I know are very stable and well-balanced.
They undergo a rigorous selection process -- and an in-depth psychiatric
evaluation.
Semper Fidelis.
DSH
"Michil匤" <mic...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:42f3614d.2354485@news...
| In my experience, snipers have always been lonely, withdrawn
Arved Sandstrom
[ SNIP ]
I think my Dad's oldest brother would have behaved that way, from what I
have heard.He was just barely old enough to sneak into the aftermath of the
mess on the Eastern Front after Nov 11. Our best knowledge is that neither
the Russians or Latvians plinked him, but someone in the German Iron
Division did.
Nice story though - thanks.
AHS
Ian MacLure
news:dd04sk$ba$1...@news.freedom2surf.net:
> "Michilín" <mic...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
> news:42f3614d.2354485@news...
>
>>. Conversely, news reports
>> such as the episode of the Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders fixing
>> bayonets and disemboweling 21 Iraqi insurgents are met with smiling
>> approval in Scotland and a feeling that the 80-odd insurgents who ran
>> away were cowardly scum for not staying around to see what their
>> intestines looked like hanging from a Scottish bayonet.
>
> A bayonet designed in Nottingham (at the incredible cost of four
> million quid) and made in Sheffield and issued to the whole of the
> bits of the British army entitled to wear one can hardly be called
> 'Scottish'.
Umm, if its being wielded by a Scot its a Scottish bayonet.
The annoying part is that its a steak knife on a pellet
gun. Oh for the days of the 17" sword on a Rifle No 1, MkIII.
Now there's a combination that ensured that the bayonetee stayed
ventilated. Mind you there's a special place in my heart for the
old fashioned triangular model as well.
IBM
_______________________________________________________________________________
Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Accounts Starting At $6.95 - http://www.uncensored-news.com
<><><><><><><> The Worlds Uncensored News Source <><><><><><><><>
D. Spencer Hines
someone in Iraq, Afghanistan -- or anywhere ELSE -- he must PROVE to
BRANNIGAN'S satisfaction that it was an authorized kill -- if Brannigan
reads a press report about the kill and has some doubts.
For Brannigan, the sniper in the case under consideration -- about whose
actions Brannigan has NONE of the facts, just a press report which has
sent him into high dudgeon -- must not just justify himself to his team
leader, his platoon sergeant or platoon leader -- but he is effectively
ON TRIAL -- in the Court of Public Opinion -- and must exonerate
himself -- because of the press report.
There is a Presumption of Guilt on Brannigan's part and the Burden of
Proof is on the sniper and his superiors to prove the sniper acted
lawfully.
Brannigan has said that over and over.
Of course Brannigan's view is complete hogwash and no one could possibly
fight a War under such constraints -- so we do not.
Only an Ivory-Tower sea lawyer with an axe to grind would ever even
suggest something so foolish -- much less continue to harp on it --
because that takes REAL idiocy.
Ian MacLure
[snip]
> Seconded. There's more than a whiff of the Argentinians about US
> operations - the willingness to torture, the bodies clearly beaten to
> death, etc.
Well just because the Ariges happened to pick up the occasional
good idea is no means to eschew that methodology.
If would be Jihadis stated turning up dead drowned in a barrel of
flaming pig excrement would that be such a bad thing.
Michilín
Exactly. Any real soldier knows that, but this thread is awash with
armchair generals.
Měcheil
S' an tir na deňir 's e 'n eug ar dualchas
In the land of tears death is our heritage
Michilín
wrote:
>
>"Vince" <fir...@firelaw.us> wrote in message
>news:HcWdnRqmJps...@comcast.com...
>> William Black wrote:
>> > "Michilín" <mic...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
>news:42f3614d.2354485@news...
>> >
>> >
>> >>. Conversely, news reports
>> >>such as the episode of the Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders fixing
>> >>bayonets and disemboweling 21 Iraqi insurgents are met with smiling
>> >>approval in Scotland and a feeling that the 80-odd insurgents who ran
>> >>away were cowardly scum for not staying around to see what their
>> >>intestines looked like hanging from a Scottish bayonet.
>> >
>> >
>> > A bayonet designed in Nottingham (at the incredible cost of four million
>> > quid) and made in Sheffield and issued to the whole of the bits of the
>> > British army entitled to wear one can hardly be called 'Scottish'.
>> >
>>
>> I think the custom, unless the quality of the weapon is at issue, is
>> that the weapon is identified with the actor not the maker. i.e. KONGO
>> was a japanese Battleship, not British
>
>The Bayonet remains British, the soldiers remain British.
>
>It is not normal to refer to, for example, The Green Howards as 'English
>soldiers', or even 'Yorkshire soldiers', they, like the Argyles, are
>British soldiers.
Don't tell ME what's normal, Englishman. MY knees are brown; I've seen
Calcutta!
To me and to all Scots, Scottish soldiers are Scottish soldiers. Have
you never heard the patriotic song, "The Scottish Soldier"? Don't
confuse them with the "also ran" rubbish you Anglos have been fielding
over the ;last 300 years. Why, in the American War of Independence,
you were even reduced to hiring Germans to do your soldiering for you!
All that my ancestors knew about English soldiers was red uniforms
fleeing south; men who would have won gold if the Olympics had been in
business in those days. To this day we talk of "The Red Army" - a
bunch of yokels trying to pass themselves off as real warriors like we
Highlanders; the Chosen of God; the Scourge of the Southern Serfs.
>--
>William Black
>
>I've seen things you people wouldn't believe
>Barbeques on fire by chalets past the headland
>I've watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off Newborough
>All this will pass like ice-cream on the beach
>Time for tea
>
>
Michilín
A first in Usenet! We Scots are accustomed to dealing with people who
know more about our culture, customs and languages than we do.
As has been said a million times in the past; the world is divided
into two groups - the Scots and those who wish they were Scots.
This modest but self-evident truth has sustained us through the
ravings of a thousand William Black wannabes.
Michilín
wrote:
>
>"Vince" <fir...@firelaw.us> wrote in message
>news:laKdnQjK8M9...@comcast.com...
>
>>
>> I do recall the Irish Guards, Welch Fusiliers, the 51st Scottish
>> Division etc
>>
>> Ill defer to the Scots on what they like to be called
>
>The problem is that what they like to be called varies depending on
>circumstances.
>
>To the Scots they're 'Scots' when they're doing something creditable,
>they're 'evil Brits' when they're not...
>
>--
>William Black
What ignorant nonsense!
This is how it works in Anglistan. Let's use football (soccer) as an
example:
When England wins the World Cup, it's an "English" victory.
When Scotland wins the World Cup, it's a "British" victory.
When England loses the World Cup, it's a "British defeat".
When Scotland loses the World Cup, it's a "Scottish" defeat.
England's propaganda agency, the BBC, is notorious for this.
outrageous partiality.
So ourtraged di teh Scots become about this that the BBC finakllt
prodiced and ran a n excellent program salled "The Scots", showing how
our culture has heavily influenced much of world society and also
giving us proper credit for having produced more inventions than any
other nation.
Scots spread out from the East Coast across Canada and brought it into
one confederation without a single Indian war. The first Indian
confrontation in Canada was between the Mohawks and the Federal
government in 1990 over a cemetery removal dispute in 1991 at Oka.
In the United States, genocide was the method of choice for bringing
peace to the Plains.
I think this says everything about the Scots and a great deal more
about the English and their contempt for non-English peoples.
Michilín
wrote:
Nice story. By the way, it's Murrayfield. I've often stood there
watching my uncle and his cousin play for Scotland!
Michilín
Sandstrom is a Swedish name, isn't it? A Minneapolis police detective
once told me that there are more Swedish prostitutes in the
Minneapolis area than from any other ethnic group. Is there some
social or cultural reason for this, or is it just a Swedish "thing"?
William Black
"Michilín" <mic...@shaw.ca> wrote in message news:42f4d051.6471215@news...
> All that my ancestors knew about English soldiers was red uniforms
> fleeing south; men who would have won gold if the Olympics had been in
> business in those days. To this day we talk of "The Red Army" - a
> bunch of yokels trying to pass themselves off as real warriors like we
> Highlanders; the Chosen of God; the Scourge of the Southern Serfs.
So where were they at Culloden?
Fighting in government red coats, running away, hiding at home or being
slaughtered like pigs?
All the Highlanders were ever chosen for was being eaten alive by the bloody
insect life that inhabits the same scenery they do.
William Black
"Michilín" <mic...@shaw.ca> wrote in message news:42f4d3ae.7332603@news...
> A first in Usenet! We Scots are accustomed to dealing with people who
> know more about our culture, customs and languages than we do.
Of course you are.
> As has been said a million times in the past; the world is divided
> into two groups - the Scots and those who wish they were Scots.
Who by?
> This modest but self-evident truth has sustained us through the
> ravings of a thousand William Black wannabes.
No, I'm a real William Black.
You, on the other hand, don't have courage to use your own name.
Michilín
<pogue...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>There is a GERM of truth in that -- but the poster has overstated his
>thesis.
>
>Snipers have such extraordinary skills there is an understandable
>mystique about them -- which they understandably cultivate and husband.
>
>They are ENVIED by the less competent -- as are members of Delta
>Force -- and hated by many.
The Delta Force was modelled on and trained by the British SAS, many
of whom come from Glasgow!
>
>The Marine snipers I know are very stable and well-balanced.
>
>They undergo a rigorous selection process -- and an in-depth psychiatric
>evaluation.
>
>Semper Fidelis.
>
>DSH
>
>"Michil $ByO (B" <mic...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
>news:42f3614d.2354485@news...
>
>| In my experience, snipers have always been lonely, withdrawn
>| individuals, usually disliked and shunned by their mates.
>
William Black
"Michilín" <mic...@shaw.ca> wrote in message news:42f4f2b3.15273432@news...
> The Delta Force was modelled on and trained by the British SAS, many
> of whom come from Glasgow!
Interesting idea.
'G Troop' is all guardsmen, so, being charitable, we can assume about 15%
come from the Scots Guards, because the Household Cavalry of course are
part of 'The Brigade of Guards'....
The bulk of the rest are recruited from the Parachute Regiment and Royal
Marines, about 50% from the Parachute regiment.
Units not noted for their high number of Scots ...
I have recently posted an article about large numbers of people claiming
they 'served with the SAS'.
Of course detailed information about SAS recruitment is classified, so any
estimate is, at best, a guess.
BillC
"William Black" <ab...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:dd2t4c$sgn$2...@news.freedom2surf.net...
>
> "Michilín" <mic...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
> news:42f4f2b3.15273432@news...
>
>> The Delta Force was modelled on and trained by the British SAS, many
>> of whom come from Glasgow!
>
> Interesting idea.
>
> 'G Troop' is all guardsmen, so, being charitable, we can assume about
> 15%
> come from the Scots Guards, because the Household Cavalry of course are
> part of 'The Brigade of Guards'....
>
> The bulk of the rest are recruited from the Parachute Regiment and Royal
> Marines, about 50% from the Parachute regiment.
>
> Units not noted for their high number of Scots ...
>
> I have recently posted an article about large numbers of people claiming
> they 'served with the SAS'.
>
> Of course detailed information about SAS recruitment is classified, so any
> estimate is, at best, a guess.
>
> --
> William Black
What a bad advertisement for the Scots that guy is.
William Black
"BillC" <joed...@compuserve.com> wrote in message
news:xV6Je.2088$RS....@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
I'm not yet convinced he is what he says he is.
We had one on a.h.b before who was similar in tone but made mistakes about
British military slang that even I, someone who's never been in the armed
services, spotted.
This one's careful not to actually mention any specific details, and is
very vague about any details of his actual career and doesn't claim
acquaintance with any notable people.
It looks like a 'construct' to put forward outrageous opinions but there's
no proof yet.
Bryn
<ab...@hotmail.com> writes
>
>"Michilín" <mic...@shaw.ca> wrote in message news:42f4d051.6471215@news...
>
>> All that my ancestors knew about English soldiers was red uniforms
>> fleeing south; men who would have won gold if the Olympics had been in
>> business in those days. To this day we talk of "The Red Army" - a
>> bunch of yokels trying to pass themselves off as real warriors like we
>> Highlanders; the Chosen of God; the Scourge of the Southern Serfs.
>
>So where were they at Culloden?
My lot were down on the right and back a bit, occupying a tiny rise in
the ground gathered around a 14 year old boy, the young Master...
>
>Fighting in government red coats,
That was Argyll's crew sneaking up behind the auld stane dyke...
>running away, hiding at home or being
>slaughtered like pigs?
>
>All the Highlanders were ever chosen for was being eaten alive by the bloody
>insect life that inhabits the same scenery they do.
Yes, that would describe much of Canada, odd that so much of Canada is
labelled with my family's name if we were eaten alive... *#:-]
>
And now some history:
[...]The crisis was not long in developing and in 1756 a Continental
war broke out which went down in history as 'the seven years war'.
The siege and loss of Minorca marked the beginning and was an
epic, which, however, does not concern the Scottish regiments,
though, as will be seen, some of them took part in the campaign in
Germany.
During the first year of the war the 50th to 59th regiments were
raised, and the 6oth royal americans) now the king's royal
rifle corps, was formed in New York. More regiments were raised
in the following year, 1757, and the eloquence of William Pitt.
persuaded the King and the Government, whose memories of 'the
'45' still caused them apprehension, to permit the raising of two
new Highland regiments. The (old) 78th or Frasers Highlanders
(not the 78th which is now the 2nd seaforth), was raised by the
Hon. Simon (late General) Fraser, son of the 13th Lord Lovat
who was executed .for his part in 'the '45'. Six hundred recruits
came from his confiscated estates and 800 more from the surround-
ing country. It seems most unexpected that, under such conditions,
these men should have been so loyal and willing to serve, but per-
haps an old Indian proverb was applicable—'The cat is fond of the
house, rather than of the master'—and they liked military service,
though they could not then have had any special fondness for the
King or the Government. Whatever their innermost thoughts, they
proved excellent soldiers, and took part in operations at Louisburg,
Quebec, and in Newfoundland. The 77th, or Montgomery's
Highlanders were even more of an experiment, as they were re-
cruited from Clans well known to have Jacobite sympathies—the
Frasers, MacDonalds, MacLeans &c., by Major The Hon. Archi-
bald Montgomery (later Earl of Eglinton). They also served in
America and the West Indies. As an instance of the prejudice still
existing, the 78th, on arrival in Canada, were ordered to adopt the
ordinary dress of a Line regiment. Colonel Fraser, however, with
great determination, succeeded in getting the. order- cancelled, and
they continued to wear full highland dress, similar to that of the
royal highland regiment (BW), during the whole of their service.
The notable success of these two regiments convinced the
authorities of the loyalty and good discipline of Highlanders in
general and led to the raising of many more Highland regiments
during the American wars. Unfortunately most of these were dis-
banded at the end of hostilities.
Major R M Barnes
--
Bryn Fraser (if you did not know it)
To email remove GREMILNS
BillC
I think you're right, but the nature of his posts, like a number of others
from that quarter, point to a sick cowardly nature.
Bryn
<ab...@hotmail.com> writes
>
>"Michilín" <mic...@shaw.ca> wrote in message news:42f4d3ae.7332603@news...
>
>> A first in Usenet! We Scots are accustomed to dealing with people who
>> know more about our culture, customs and languages than we do.
>
>Of course you are.
>
>> As has been said a million times in the past; the world is divided
>> into two groups - the Scots and those who wish they were Scots.
>
>Who by?
>
>> This modest but self-evident truth has sustained us through the
>> ravings of a thousand William Black wannabes.
>
>No, I'm a real William Black.
>
>You, on the other hand, don't have courage to use your own name.
WE all know his name...
BTW Robin Cook's dead...
>
--
Bryn
To email remove GREMILNS
Bryn
<joed...@compuserve.com> writes
You are a bad advert for human beings...
Bryn
<joed...@compuserve.com> writes
Far from the truth...
Vaughan Sanders
> Calcutta!
>
> To me and to all Scots, Scottish soldiers are Scottish soldiers. Have
> you never heard the patriotic song, "The Scottish Soldier"? Don't
> confuse them with the "also ran" rubbish you Anglos have been fielding
> over the ;last 300 years. Why, in the American War of Independence,
> you were even reduced to hiring Germans to do your soldiering for you!
>
> fleeing south; men who would have won gold if the Olympics had been in
> business in those days. To this day we talk of "The Red Army" - a
> bunch of yokels trying to pass themselves off as real warriors like we
> Highlanders; the Chosen of God; the Scourge of the Southern Serfs.
>
That's funny Haggis old bean, I would say the father in law was an
Englishman serving in the British Army (WWII), he was in the Royal Scots
Fusiliers.
The mother in law went to her grave still moaning about your 19s 6d
Mickey Mouse Money.
Btw, in the American War of Independence, Flora MacDonald and her
Highlanders all got wet (Moores Creek) much to the amusement of the
German Jaegers I would imagine.
The last battle to be fought on British soil was Culloden 1746, Prince
Willy used his new bayonet tactics to great effect, the Jacobite
Highlanders were routed and ran like scolded cats.
The Dragoons chased them for 3 miles hacking them down, Willy getting
the name of Butcher, but that's Krauts for you.
Mind you Flora and co learnt nothing from this, did I mention the
Patriots removing the planking from the bridge :-))
Jamie
Grey Satterfield
Black" <ab...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I have recently posted an article about large numbers of people claiming
> they 'served with the SAS'.
>
> Of course detailed information about SAS recruitment is classified, so any
> estimate is, at best, a guess.
The U.S. Navy Seals have the same problem. In fact, some of the real
ex-Seals have set up a Web site to make it easier to identify imposters:
Grey Satterfield
Bryn
<vaughan...@virgin.net> writes
There may have been a different outcome at Culloden (indeed the
regiments would have not turned back at Derby) if Quartermaster General
John William O'Sullivan had not been in the pay of the English (or
should I say, Germans.) Not only did he embezzle the funds in his care,
he arranged where the battle took place, Drumossie Muir. And caused the
battle order to be changed in such a way as to immobilise the MacDonald
Keppoch (Clan Ranald) contingent, them being left-handed swords to a
man.
As I have asserted before, no Culloden, no Canada...
BillC
"Bryn" <br...@GREMILNSfinhall.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:ca+ZDEBA...@finhall.demon.co.uk...
No, that's your description fool.
D. Patterson
Vaughan Sanders wrote:
...and greasing the stringers.
Fred J. McCall
news:BF1A7E2A.1A96E%grey.sat...@oscn.net:
But they took down the Wall of Shame. Pity. Such folks deserve
exposure.
--
This space for let.
Josiah Jenkins
Sanders" <vaughan...@virgin.net> :
That wasn't a Highland Regiment, the RSF catchment area
was in the Borders. About 40 years ago, they were merged
with the HLI (Highland Light Infantry) which was not, as the
name would suggest "Highland" but Glasgow based.
-- JJJ
Trumpet
"Michilín" <mic...@shaw.ca> wrote in message news:42f392bb.15007729@news...
> On Fri, 5 Aug 2005 01:15:33 -0700, "Trumpet" <pro...@comcast.net>
> wrote:
>
> >OK Hinie,
> >
> >So what did YOU do in the military Hinie?
> >Did you get to interpret the ROE for a conflict. NO? Were you in the
> >military? NO?
> >Have you even read the UCMJ? NO?
> >Are you just an armchair mili/politico quarterback with no experience in
> >either to backup what you say? YES?
> >Do mention if I'm mistaken.
> >I'm sure we'd all like to be regaled with your tales. You rankless
amature.
>
> "You rankless amature."
>
> Yale, Harvard or The Bronx?
>
>
Harvard, yes. (No degree) The Bronx, yes, with honors. ;)
Trumpet
Trumpet
>
> "Trumpet" <pro...@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:HPudnZ2dnZ1-TM-inZ2dn...@comcast.com...
> > OK Hinie,
> >
> > So what did YOU do in the military Hinie?
>
> military.
>
> He was a full commander in the US Navy.
>
> Details in the 'D Spencer Hines faq'.
>
> --
> William Black
O.K. If that is true, I stand humbly corrected.
Hinie, I apologize for inferring you didn't have the moral rectitude, or the
balls, to join the U.S. military. I was wrong and I'm sincerely sorry.
What else is in the 'D Spencer Hines faq'?
Trumpet
William Black
> What else is in the 'D Spencer Hines faq'?
That he's an embittered failure, loathed by the left for what he says and by
the right for the way he says it.
Everyone hates D Spencer Hines...
Arved Sandstrom
[ SNIP ]
> A first in Usenet! We Scots are accustomed to dealing with people who
> know more about our culture, customs and languages than we do.
>
> As has been said a million times in the past; the world is divided
> into two groups - the Scots and those who wish they were Scots.
I believe both the Scots and the Irish think this way. Personally, I
wouldn't want to be Scottish because the kilts are right out - can't have
that (on a slightly military topic, they actually caused problems in
military conditions). Irish, not a chance - heating up your meager meal of
potatos with peat doesn't cut it.
AHS
pan....@virgin.net
>When Scotland wins the World Cup, it's a "British" victory.
We should be so lucky.
Julian Richards
The Scotland football manager is at a training session when he is
called away to a phone call. He leaves his assistant in charge for the
team to practice dribbling around dustbins. When he returned, he asked
his assistant how things were.
"Everything was fine", he said, "until the dustbins scored a late
winner".
--
Julian Richards
medieval "at" richardsuk.f9.co.uk
www.richardsuk.f9.co.uk
Website of "Robot Wars" middleweight "Broadsword IV"
THIS MESSAGE WAS POSTED FROM SOC.HISTORY.MEDIEVAL
Michilín
"Haggis old bean"? indeed! God, they're worse than Bengalis, always
pushing their way in, trying to claim friendships that simply don't
exist with people who wouldn't allow them across the threshold.
You've noticed too the tendency of these people to patronise one,
without a single fact to back their assertions. Thank you for your
timely intervention. The English father in law indeed; next he'll be
dragging out his auntie from Jamaica!
William Black
"Michilín" <mic...@shaw.ca> wrote in message news:42f5f7f7.34464076@news...
> You've noticed too the tendency of these people to patronise one,
> without a single fact to back their assertions.
Well let's be honest, either you get patronised or you get ignored.
You're not actually contributing anything to any of the history groups
you're posting to.
The people who are patronising you do so in the hope that you'll actually
start to contribute something of substance.
I don't hold out much hope myself, all you've contributed so far is a load
of folklore that doesn't stand up and a couple of anecdotes that sound
deeply suspect.
Michilín
The English were certainly quick enough to get back to us thirty years
later to solicit our help in suppressing the American uprising. There
were so few volunteers that eventually Germans had to be hired to
fight England's war. Needless to say, we all know the outcome.
I think it typifies the malice and illwill of people such as this
"Jamie" that he failed to mention how the defeat at Culloden became
famous as a war crime and all the regiments who took part were ordered
to remove the word "Culloden" from their battle honours permanently
Jamie also forgot to mention that had we Scots not built the British
Empire for them, England would still have become what it is today, a
nasty little German principality filled with P-Celts whose only
visible function appears to be being available to greet invaders and
delight them by demonstrating perfect serf-hood qualities without any
prior training. If one were to build a monument to England's
contribution to the world's culture, it would be a kneeling body, anus
winking at the sky.
Michilín
wrote:
>
>"Trumpet" <pro...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>news:HPudnZ2dnZ1-TM-inZ2dn...@comcast.com...
>> OK Hinie,
>>
>> So what did YOU do in the military Hinie?
>
>Much as I dislike David S Hines I'm afriad that he did serve in the US
>military.
>
>He was a full commander in the US Navy.
>
>Details in the 'D Spencer Hines faq'.
Did you ever get your knot-tying badge, William?
>--
>William Black
>
>I've seen things you people wouldn't believe
>Barbeques on fire by chalets past the headland
>I've watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off Newborough
>All this will pass like ice-cream on the beach
>Time for tea
>
>
>
Michilín
wrote:
A load of faqing misinformation?
Mac_Ray
"Julian Richards" <s...@sig.co.uk> wrote in message
news:emsbf1t43t3t340ve...@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 07 Aug 2005 11:18:26 +0100, pan....@virgin.net wrote:
>
> >On Sat, 06 Aug 2005 15:39:42 GMT, mic...@shaw.ca (Michilín) wrote:
> >
> >>When Scotland wins the World Cup, it's a "British" victory.
> >
> >We should be so lucky.
>
> The Scotland football manager is at a training session when he is
> called away to a phone call. He leaves his assistant in charge for the
> team to practice dribbling around dustbins. When he returned, he asked
> his assistant how things were.
>
> "Everything was fine", he said, "until the dustbins scored a late
> winner".
It's so funny coz it's true. (Homer Simpson).