American Passports in Poland
Krys Krawczyk
postings reporting the problem, as well as the full text of the
citizenship law.
You will be allowed to enter Poland, but disallowed to exit without Polish
passport. Polish American Consular Convention of 1972 is still in force,
but Polish government has found a way around it. Convention required that
any holder of the US passport admitted with valid Polish visa is
guaranteed an exit while using American passport. Polish government
unilaterally has discontinued a visa requirement for US citizens. So,
since you don't have a Polish visa in your passport, they no longer have
any obligation to let you out if they suspect that you might be of Polish
origin, even if American born.
Recently the law has been changed, but law or no law the border guards
practice continues. Reason? The Polish government counts on billions of
dollars of revenue from Americans forced to pay to renounce Polish
citizenship or to pay for Polish passports.
More information links:
http://www.poloniamichigan.com/index_noflash.htm
Krzysztof M. Krawczyk
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Wojtek
<peter...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8ni4rh$cj1$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> Recently I have learned that anyone born in Poland has to have polish
> passport in order to travel to Poland, regardless of citizenship. The
> rumor has it that US citizens born in Poland are turned back at the
> Warsaw airport if they do not have polish passports. A friend of
> mine cancelled his trip to Poland with his family for that very
> reason. I am planning a trip to Poland later this year but lack of
> polish passport me keep me away. Anyone knows anything more concrete
> about it?
> Thanks,
> Peter
>
>
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.
This is not a rumor. If you are dual citizen (American/Polish) and you do
not have Polish passport when leaving Poland you may be turned back (held
hostage if you wish) - everything depends on the mood of the Polish Border
Service people. If the Border Service has a record of your Polish
citizenship in their computer system, the chances are you might be stopped
at the border. If they don't have a record, you are home free (literally).
If you speak Polish, there is an excellent web site that covers all aspects
of the new "law" and our efforts to chande it:
http://www.poloniamichigan.com/paszport_main.htm or
http://www.polindeks.com/paszport_main.htm. (the mirror)
Unfortunately, these websites are 100% in Polish.
peter...@my-deja.com
peter...@my-deja.com
afraid that the only result of this idiotic legislature will be less
visits to the old country. For one thing I am not going to risk me and
my family becoming hostages of some "WOP" madmen. I miss Poland, but
not that much.
RPP
wrote:
>Please check this group messages back to May 15th. There were hundreds of
>postings reporting the problem, as well as the full text of the
>citizenship law.
>You will be allowed to enter Poland, but disallowed to exit without Polish
>passport. Polish American Consular Convention of 1972 is still in force,
>but Polish government has found a way around it. Convention required that
>any holder of the US passport admitted with valid Polish visa is
>guaranteed an exit while using American passport. Polish government
>unilaterally has discontinued a visa requirement for US citizens. So,
>since you don't have a Polish visa in your passport, they no longer have
>any obligation to let you out if they suspect that you might be of Polish
>origin, even if American born.
>Recently the law has been changed, but law or no law the border guards
>practice continues. Reason? The Polish government counts on billions of
>dollars of revenue from Americans forced to pay to renounce Polish
>citizenship or to pay for Polish passports.
>
Renounce it of get a passport. Its very simple.
RPP
>Thanks for a quick and thorough answer. This is madness!!! I am
>afraid that the only result of this idiotic legislature will be less
>visits to the old country. For one thing I am not going to risk me and
>my family becoming hostages of some "WOP" madmen. I miss Poland, but
>not that much.
>Peter
>
Why dont you want to spend 60 dollars on a passport?
SBobrow940
Actually, you will not be turned away at the Okecie airport, while arriving.
But, instead, you will be accepted and let in, to be barred from leaving Poland
untill you have the Polish passport to produce, while trying to board your
plane to go home.
S.B.
---------------------------------------
Subject: American Passports in Poland
From: peter...@my-deja.com
Date: 8/17/00 6:51 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id: <8ni4rh$cj1$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>
SBobrow940
"Renounce it of get a passport. Its very simple."
For sure, it is not in standard English.
S.B.
P.S. How long time will it take to teach a moron English?
----------------------------------
Subject: Re: American Passports in Poland
From: le...@mail.netinc.ca (RPP)
Date: 8/17/00 9:16 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id: <399cb88...@news.kwom.com>
sta...@my-deja.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish
Subject: Re: American Passports in Poland
(...)
>
Renounce it or get a passport. Its very simple.
(...)
Very.
Renunciation:
You need to apply in writing to the President of the Republic of Poland
for his discretionary, non-appealable, non-challengeable, executive
decision to release you (or not) from Polish citizenship. Your
application must be accompanied by a ton of surreal supporting
documents, most of them impossible to obtain short of going personally
to Poland for that sole purpose. If any of a long list of papers is not
there, your application will not be considered.
Some, but by no means all, required papers are:
A detailed curriculum vitae in duplicate.
Polish birth certificates for all your children (pity if they were born
in America, just skip over to Poland to register their birth with a
Polish Registry Office wherever you had your last "zameldowanie" in
Poland, God knows how many years ago).
Your "wymeldowanie" (no equivalent of this concept in the English
language). Do not forget your "wymeldowanie", it is critical to the
President's decision!
Your marriage and divorce papers (stiff shit if you married outside
Poland, just skip over to Poland to register your marriage with the
Polish Registry Office wherever you had your last "zameldowanie").
Stiff shit also if you divorced outside Poland. You are expected to
validate your US divorce papers through Polish courts, otherwise Poland
will not recognise your "foreign" divorce and will not release you from
citizenship, God knows why. Polish divorce courts may have their lists
chock full for the next 12-18 months; you will just have to wait your
turn. Bad luck about that job of yours back in the US.
Do not forget that every scrap of paper in English will have to be
translated into Polish by a translator recognised by the Polish
Consulate ($15/page), every photocopy will have to be "legalised" by
the Consulate ($20/page). If the great man in Poland agrees to let you
go, you will pay $275 for his written decision to be handed over to you.
The entire proces is designed for maximum inconvenience, no doubt to
make you reflect over your unfaithfulness to the Motherland and the
overly easy ride you have had in the United States.
Altogether, the renunciation of Polish citizenship will set you back
approx. $600-$1000, and the process will take anything between 12 and
24 months. The result is not guaranteed. You are, however, positively
guaranteed to be driven up the wall by bureaucratic nitpicking, rudeness
of Consulate officials, repeated demands for more money, unavailability
to you of many of the allegedly essential supporting documents, and
the general aura of self-satisfaction among Polish officials at their
having at long last caught and punished a fugitive traitor.
At the end of the day, you may be told that the great man in Poland has
refused your request; you have no legal right to know the reasons.
Passport:
That's much simpler indeed - just hand over 130 greenbacks (only $25, or
100 zlotys, if you live in Poland, but $130 if you live in the States),
prove to the Consulate's satisfaction that you are a Polish citizen,
fill a form, attach four accompanying documents. Then sit back and wait
for eight to twelve weeks (however urgent your case) for your brand new
dark blue passport with a crowned eagle on the cover.
Once in Poland on that passport, you will deal with petty officials, who
will derive emotional gratification bordering on orgasm from letting you
know who is boss. Of course, as a Polish national traveling in Poland on
a Polish passport, you will have no access or right to American consular
protection should anything go wrong in the official maze. Do not lose
your Polish passport. To get a new one in Poland you will have to get a
new "dowod osobisty", new "zameldowanie", a "PESEL" ID number and other
assorted papers. It takes 3 months if you are lucky. Bad luck about that
job of yours back in the US. Under no circumstances will you be allowed
to exit Poland on your American/Canadian/Australian/other passport.
Easy.
Enjoy your holidays.
Stary Wiarus
sta...@hotmail.com
SBobrow940
is not able to grasp it.
S.B.
----------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: American Passports in Poland
From: sta...@my-deja.com
Date: 8/17/00 10:31 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id: <8nihn9$qg2$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>
SBobrow940
:)))))))
"How long time will it take to teach a moron English?"
----------------------------------
Subject: Re: American Passports in Poland
From: sbobr...@aol.com (SBobrow940)
Date: 08/18/00 0:21 AM EST
Message-id: <20000818012123...@ng-cj1.aol.com>
Peter
- which he does not know anything about. Consider this: For some reason -
just an example - You are considered Chinese on Your visit to China, and a
corrupted Policeman locks You up (yes I know there is no corruption in
Poland), You do not speak the language, and the only rights you have is as
on Chinese citizen - American Consulate/Ambassy will not help (provide law
explaination/lawyers/assistance/call home or at least look into the matter
as foreign government) since you are identifying your self with Chinese
passport. And I can continue and continue - with possible problems that
await someone bearing a Polish passport, who has no clue and does not speak
the language served in US Forces etc.
marcus
news:399D7745...@hotmail.com...
> Because it is not $60 - check the prices, and he will be under a
Polish law
> - which he does not know anything about. Consider this: For some
reason -
> just an example - You are considered Chinese on Your visit to China,
and a
> corrupted Policeman locks You up (yes I know there is no corruption in
> Poland), You do not speak the language, and the only rights you have
is as
> on Chinese citizen - American Consulate/Ambassy will not help (provide
law
> explaination/lawyers/assistance/call home or at least look into the
matter
> as foreign government) since you are identifying your self with
Chinese
> passport. And I can continue and continue - with possible problems
that
> await someone bearing a Polish passport, who has no clue and does not
speak
> the language served in US Forces etc.
The embassy in Poland did not receive any complaints from American
citizens being detained or otherwise mistreated at the borders of
Poland. There were reports in the media of such incidents happening to
passport holders from other countries (there was five-month baby with
German passport that had difficulties) but there are no substantiated
reports such border problems happened to anyone using American passport.
The State Department warns that dual citizens using other than an
American passport may encounter difficulties and delays in contacting
their embassy or consulates and otherwise increase the likelihood of
having problems in countries like Poland. To avoid those problems the
state department strongly suggests that American citizens traveling in
Poland use exclusively their American passports.
--
Marcus
______________________________
to reply remove "l" from email address
marcus
"RPP" <le...@mail.netinc.ca> wrote in message
news:399cb8b...@news.kwom.com...
> On Fri, 18 Aug 2000 03:20:01 GMT, peter...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> >Thanks for a quick and thorough answer. This is madness!!! I am
> >afraid that the only result of this idiotic legislature will be less
> >visits to the old country. For one thing I am not going to risk me
and
> >my family becoming hostages of some "WOP" madmen. I miss Poland, but
> >not that much.
> >Peter
> >
>
> Why dont you want to spend 60 dollars on a passport?
You could spend $60 or any other amount on any passport but make sure it
is not Polish one in Poland. If you are an American citizen and you
don't use your American passport in Poland you may have difficulties or
delays with contacting your embassy or consulate. Notwithstanding what
Poland may suggest the State Department strongly suggest you use only
your American passport in Poland.
RPP
>
>"RPP" <le...@mail.netinc.ca> wrote in message
>news:399cb8b...@news.kwom.com...
>> On Fri, 18 Aug 2000 03:20:01 GMT, peter...@my-deja.com wrote:
>>
>> >Thanks for a quick and thorough answer. This is madness!!! I am
>> >afraid that the only result of this idiotic legislature will be less
>> >visits to the old country. For one thing I am not going to risk me
>and
>> >my family becoming hostages of some "WOP" madmen. I miss Poland, but
>> >not that much.
>> >Peter
>> >
>>
>> Why dont you want to spend 60 dollars on a passport?
>
>You could spend $60 or any other amount on any passport but make sure it
>is not Polish one in Poland. If you are an American citizen and you
>don't use your American passport in Poland you may have difficulties or
>delays with contacting your embassy or consulate. Notwithstanding what
>Poland may suggest the State Department strongly suggest you use only
>your American passport in Poland.
I use my Polish pasport in Poland. Why? Because I am a Pole not an
American.
patient
RPP wrote:
>
>
> I use my Polish pasport in Poland. Why? Because I am a Pole not an
> American.
First of all, it seems you aren't an American citizen so, you simply don't
have an American passport to use in Poland, even if you wanted to. Correct?
Your private opinions on somebody else's acquiring American citizenship
aren't legally binding yet. BTW, you confuse ethnicity with citizenship.
Peter
American citizens traveling in
>Poland use exclusively their American passports.
a person who is considered a Polish citizen is already in Poland and under
Polish jurisdiction. Polish Embassies and Consulates are very clear in this
matter as well - if you are a dual citizen you will need a Polish passport
in order to leave Poland. So whose law should a traveler break again?
I also found this note in US State Dept. pages:
http://travel.state.gov/dualnationality.html
"Claims of other countries on dual national U.S. citizens may conflict with
U.S. law, and dual nationality may limit U.S.
Government efforts to assist citizens abroad. The country where a dual
national is located generally has a stronger claim to that person's
allegiance."
and this updated note: http://travel.state.gov/poland.html
"While recognizing that some Americans are also citizens of other countries,
the U.S. Government does not encourage its citizens to become or remain dual
nationals due to an array of complications that may ensue from the
obligations owed to the
country of second nationality. For example, Polish law prohibits Polish
citizens from serving in the armed forces of a foreign state, and violators
are subject to arrest and prosecution. U.S.-Polish dual nationals who are
members of the U.S. armed forces may be subject to these penalties"
To me it looks like I've been warned! and by US State Dept. not the media.
marcus wrote:
Peter
http://travel.state.gov/dualnationality.html
"Claims of other countries on dual national U.S. citizens may conflict with
U.S. law, and dual nationality may limit U.S.
Government efforts to assist citizens abroad. The country where a dual
national is located generally has a stronger claim to that person's
allegiance."
and this updated note: http://travel.state.gov/poland.html
"While recognizing that some Americans are also citizens of other countries,
the U.S. Government does not encourage its citizens to become or remain dual
nationals due to an array of complications that may ensue from the
obligations owed to the
country of second nationality. For example, Polish law prohibits Polish
citizens from serving in the armed forces of a foreign state, and violators
are subject to arrest and prosecution. U.S.-Polish dual nationals who are
members of the U.S. armed forces may be subject to these penalties"
My suggestion is this - don't go or get a Polish passport if you must go,
and wait until next elections hoping that idiots in government will be
replace by someone else who sees this as a problem, and sees that because
stupid laws and lock of flexibility shown in other countries Poland as
Nation is loosing not only image but also at least possible tourist revenue.
marcus wrote:
> "RPP" <le...@mail.netinc.ca> wrote in message
> news:399cb8b...@news.kwom.com...
> > On Fri, 18 Aug 2000 03:20:01 GMT, peter...@my-deja.com wrote:
> >
> > >Thanks for a quick and thorough answer. This is madness!!! I am
> > >afraid that the only result of this idiotic legislature will be less
> > >visits to the old country. For one thing I am not going to risk me
> and
> > >my family becoming hostages of some "WOP" madmen. I miss Poland, but
> > >not that much.
> > >Peter
> > >
> >
> > Why dont you want to spend 60 dollars on a passport?
>
> You could spend $60 or any other amount on any passport but make sure it
> is not Polish one in Poland. If you are an American citizen and you
> don't use your American passport in Poland you may have difficulties or
> delays with contacting your embassy or consulate. Notwithstanding what
> Poland may suggest the State Department strongly suggest you use only
> your American passport in Poland.
Bp.Veneryk Kojtus
>Can you translate it?
>
>"Renounce it of get a passport. Its very simple."
>
>
>For sure, it is not in standard English.
>
Get a life! You fuck head!
Biskup Veneryk Kojtus skretarz diecezji Pipylicze.
SBobrow940
ida do Piekla.
S.B.
-----------------------------------
Subject: Re: American Passports in Poland
From: bpko...@aol.com (Bp.Veneryk Kojtus)
Date: 8/19/00 12:19 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id: <20000819151942...@ng-cr1.aol.com>
marcus
> >To avoid those problems the state department strongly suggests that
> American citizens traveling in
> >Poland use exclusively their American passports.
> Yes great advise especially since it is for someone else. Problem is
that
> a person who is considered a Polish citizen is already in Poland and
under
> Polish jurisdiction. Polish Embassies and Consulates are very clear
in this
> matter as well - if you are a dual citizen you will need a Polish
passport
> in order to leave Poland. So whose law should a traveler break again?
Passport needed to leave Poland? Why would anyone need any passport to
leave any country? The passports are needed to enter a country - never
to leave a country. Under communists Poland used to be known from doing
common sense things "differently" and there are tons of "dumb Polish
jokes" - this must be one of them.
Hlon...@webtv.net
Ukrainian passport instead an American one ? .HL
marcus
country that has potential problems for their particular situation?
There are dozens of countries with similar travel problems and warnings
on the State Department list from Iraq to Zimbabwe and Poland is not
exactly known travel destination like Paradise Island in Bahamas or
Cancun in Mexico so why would anyone want to go to go there? There may
be hundreds of travel and vacation packages for Bahamas in any travel
agency but I never saw any cruise or travel advertisement where the
destination is Poland. The only people that would go to Poland would be
people who have to go there because of work or some other specific
requirement and those people should know what the specific travel
requirements are.
--
Marcus
______________________________
to reply remove "l" from email address
"Peter" <pad...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:399EC5C1...@hotmail.com...
> > > On Fri, 18 Aug 2000 03:20:01 GMT, peter...@my-deja.com wrote:
> > >
> > > >Thanks for a quick and thorough answer. This is madness!!! I am
> > > >afraid that the only result of this idiotic legislature will be
less
> > > >visits to the old country. For one thing I am not going to risk
me
> > and
> > > >my family becoming hostages of some "WOP" madmen. I miss Poland,
but
> > > >not that much.
> > > >Peter
> > > >
> > >
> > > Why dont you want to spend 60 dollars on a passport?
> >
> > You could spend $60 or any other amount on any passport but make
sure it
> > is not Polish one in Poland. If you are an American citizen and you
> > don't use your American passport in Poland you may have difficulties
or
> > delays with contacting your embassy or consulate. Notwithstanding
what
> > Poland may suggest the State Department strongly suggest you use
only
> > your American passport in Poland.
SBobrow940
The law is targeting this way only American and Western European dual-citizans
who happen to have Polish roots.
S.B.
P.S. Because of my mather's place of birth
(Kaunas, Lithuania) I could get a Lithuanian passport for my visits in Poland.
(The Lithuanian citizans are as much inattractive to the Polish authorities as
the
Ukrainian ones.)
It does not make any sense, though.
------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: American Passports in Poland
From: Hlon...@webtv.net
Date: 8/19/00 1:32 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id: <5025-399...@storefull-254.iap.bryant.webtv.net>
RPP
>If somebody has a dual citizenship why would they want to travel to any
>country that has potential problems for their particular situation?
>There are dozens of countries with similar travel problems and warnings
>on the State Department list from Iraq to Zimbabwe and Poland is not
>exactly known travel destination like Paradise Island in Bahamas or
>Cancun in Mexico so why would anyone want to go to go there? There may
>be hundreds of travel and vacation packages for Bahamas in any travel
>agency but I never saw any cruise or travel advertisement where the
>destination is Poland. The only people that would go to Poland would be
>people who have to go there because of work or some other specific
>requirement and those people should know what the specific travel
>requirements are.
>--
You are an idiot. You want to go to Bahamas? Fine. There are a lot of
people for whom laying all day on the beach isnt exactly the idea of a
great vacation. Some people like to go see historical places, and
Poland is a good destination. BTW, Poland is a top 10 world
destination in terms of how many people visit it. So you are wrong
that only people who need to go there.
RPP
>"Peter" <pad...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:399EC33A...@hotmail.com...
>> >To avoid those problems the state department strongly suggests that
>> American citizens traveling in
>> >Poland use exclusively their American passports.
>> Yes great advise especially since it is for someone else. Problem is
>that
>> a person who is considered a Polish citizen is already in Poland and
>under
>> Polish jurisdiction. Polish Embassies and Consulates are very clear
>in this
>> matter as well - if you are a dual citizen you will need a Polish
>passport
>> in order to leave Poland. So whose law should a traveler break again?
>
>Passport needed to leave Poland? Why would anyone need any passport to
>leave any country?
Simpe reason. Its possible that people leave the country to avoid
military service for example.
Peter
the law and make it to serve the people and not bureaucracy which only hurts
Poland and it's revenue. As for your statement "those people should know
what the specific travel requirements are" - unfortunately many people do
not know - this change is recent and was not really advertised - there is no
visa requirement for USA citizens to go to Poland so they really have no
reason to even contact Polish Embassy/Consulate.
marcus wrote:
> If somebody has a dual citizenship why would they want to travel to any
> country that has potential problems for their particular situation?
> There are dozens of countries with similar travel problems and warnings
> on the State Department list from Iraq to Zimbabwe and Poland is not
> exactly known travel destination like Paradise Island in Bahamas or
> Cancun in Mexico so why would anyone want to go to go there? There may
> be hundreds of travel and vacation packages for Bahamas in any travel
> agency but I never saw any cruise or travel advertisement where the
> destination is Poland. The only people that would go to Poland would be
> people who have to go there because of work or some other specific
> requirement and those people should know what the specific travel
> requirements are.
> --
> Marcus
> ______________________________
> to reply remove "l" from email address
>
> "Peter" <pad...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > > On Fri, 18 Aug 2000 03:20:01 GMT, peter...@my-deja.com wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >Thanks for a quick and thorough answer. This is madness!!! I am
> > > > >afraid that the only result of this idiotic legislature will be
> less
> > > > >visits to the old country. For one thing I am not going to risk
> me
> > > and
> > > > >my family becoming hostages of some "WOP" madmen. I miss Poland,
> but
> > > > >not that much.
> > > > >Peter
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Why dont you want to spend 60 dollars on a passport?
> > >
marcus
change as fast or faster as the different governments there. I think as
of today the lawmakers in Poland amended that part of a law and it may
be radically different from what was the case yesterday or will be
tomorrow )-:
Use common sense and read the warnings on the State Department page so
you know what to expect there as far as general conditions, crime and
the like. Since it is a given that the laws will change drastically at
least once during your visit there register with American embassy if you
staying longer than couple of days and have their telephone number
handy - just in case.
--
Marcus
______________________________
to reply remove "l" from email address
"Wojtek" <woj...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:8ni7ct$p5o$1...@slb2.atl.mindspring.net...
>
> <peter...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> news:8ni4rh$cj1$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> This is not a rumor. If you are dual citizen (American/Polish) and you
do
> not have Polish passport when leaving Poland you may be turned back
(held
> hostage if you wish) - everything depends on the mood of the Polish
Border
> Service people. If the Border Service has a record of your Polish
> citizenship in their computer system, the chances are you might be
stopped
> at the border. If they don't have a record, you are home free
(literally).
>
> If you speak Polish, there is an excellent web site that covers all
aspects
> of the new "law" and our efforts to chande it:
> http://www.poloniamichigan.com/paszport_main.htm or
> http://www.polindeks.com/paszport_main.htm. (the mirror)
> Unfortunately, these websites are 100% in Polish.
>
>
Peter
government thinks it is normal. During communist times people needed a
government approval to get the passport and to leave Poland - looks like
those peoples sons and daughters are now grown up and the brain washing paid
off.
marcus wrote:
> "Peter" <pad...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:399EC33A...@hotmail.com...
> > >To avoid those problems the state department strongly suggests that
> > American citizens traveling in
> > >Poland use exclusively their American passports.
> > Yes great advise especially since it is for someone else. Problem is
> that
> > a person who is considered a Polish citizen is already in Poland and
> under
> > Polish jurisdiction. Polish Embassies and Consulates are very clear
> in this
> > matter as well - if you are a dual citizen you will need a Polish
> passport
> > in order to leave Poland. So whose law should a traveler break again?
>
> Passport needed to leave Poland? Why would anyone need any passport to
> leave any country? The passports are needed to enter a country - never
> to leave a country. Under communists Poland used to be known from doing
> common sense things "differently" and there are tons of "dumb Polish
> jokes" - this must be one of them.
Peter
Citizens of Western countries.
As a matter of fact Dual citizens of Central/Eastern countries needs to
prove very hard that they are indeed Poles - Opposite to Dual citizens
from western countries where Polish government "knows" they are Poles
and baptizes their foreign born children as Poles. Double standard?
Yes.
SBobrow940
becoming
a US citizan in less than 10 years is very slim. Unless he gets merried to an
American.
Assuming he is the draft age (approx. 20)
then he does not have any meaningful education and he will be competeing with
illiterate Mexicans for jobs (if he is in US).
In conclusion, he must be an idiot to go for such a deal, assuming he is
trading
2 years (or less) of service for these problems.
In other words, "szpartan"/RPP is talking
nonsense.
S.B.
-----------------------------------------
Subject: Re: American Passports in Poland
From: le...@mail.netinc.ca (RPP)
Date: 8/19/00 1:53 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id: <399ef391...@news.kwom.com>
On Sat, 19 Aug 2000 16:09:55 -0400, "marcus" <ma...@veil.net> wrote:
>"Peter" <pad...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:399EC33A...@hotmail.com...
>> >To avoid those problems the state department strongly suggests that
>> American citizens traveling in
>> >Poland use exclusively their American passports.
>> Yes great advise especially since it is for someone else. Problem is
>that
>> a person who is considered a Polish citizen is already in Poland and
>under
>> Polish jurisdiction. Polish Embassies and Consulates are very clear
>in this
>> matter as well - if you are a dual citizen you will need a Polish
>passport
>> in order to leave Poland. So whose law should a traveler break again?
>
>Passport needed to leave Poland? Why would anyone need any passport to
>leave any country?
Simpe reason. Its possible that people leave the country to avoid
military service for example.
marcus
they go to see some ruins etc. during vacations there are many more
attractive historical places out there than Poland. There are more ruins
and historical places in Zimbabwe and in Iraq but even less Americans
would visit those places. Maybe you and couple of other morons visit
those places but get real. . . the trip there is not exactly as easy as
a trip to Disneyland.
--
Marcus
______________________________
to reply remove "l" from email address
"RPP" <le...@mail.netinc.ca> wrote in message
news:399ef2e2...@news.kwom.com...
> On Sat, 19 Aug 2000 16:09:40 -0400, "marcus" <ma...@veil.net> wrote:
>
> >If somebody has a dual citizenship why would they want to travel to
any
> >country that has potential problems for their particular situation?
> >There are dozens of countries with similar travel problems and
warnings
> >on the State Department list from Iraq to Zimbabwe and Poland is not
> >exactly known travel destination like Paradise Island in Bahamas or
> >Cancun in Mexico so why would anyone want to go to go there? There
may
> >be hundreds of travel and vacation packages for Bahamas in any travel
> >agency but I never saw any cruise or travel advertisement where the
> >destination is Poland. The only people that would go to Poland would
be
> >people who have to go there because of work or some other specific
> >requirement and those people should know what the specific travel
> >requirements are.
> >--
>
marcus
> >Passport needed to leave Poland? Why would anyone need any passport
to
> >leave any country?
>
> Simpe reason. Its possible that people leave the country to avoid
> military service for example.
They must be the fucking dumbest morons ever encountered! Why would they
want to waste resources to catch a person who wants to be a musician (or
whatever) instead of a soldier in Poland. If they did that now they
would be even dumber morons for having an army made of soldiers who did
not want to be soldiers. Last time I think they had more professional
soldiers and Poland surrendered to Germany in seven days - how long
would such an army last during a hypothetical German invasion now? Seven
hours? Seven minutes?
Are you sure you are not digging all this stupidity from the old "dumb
pollack jokes" archives?
marcus
> My point exactly, hopefully Polish government will also see the
stupidity of
> the law and make it to serve the people and not bureaucracy which only
hurts
know
> what the specific travel requirements are" - unfortunately many people
do
> not know - this change is recent and was not really advertised - there
is no
> visa requirement for USA citizens to go to Poland so they really have
no
> reason to even contact Polish Embassy/Consulate.
I think they just amended the law several days ago but that doesn't mean
that tomorrow there won't be another change. The laws, just as the
governments there in Poland in particular and that region as a whole,
change often so travelers should always look for the latest reports and
warnings from the State Department before embarking on a trip.
RPP
>If someone is willing to be a draft dodger and goes to USA, his chance of
>becoming
>a US citizan in less than 10 years is very slim. Unless he gets merried to an
>American.
>Assuming he is the draft age (approx. 20)
>then he does not have any meaningful education and he will be competeing with
>illiterate Mexicans for jobs (if he is in US).
>
>In conclusion, he must be an idiot to go for such a deal, assuming he is
>trading
>2 years (or less) of service for these problems.
>
>In other words, "szpartan"/RPP is talking
>nonsense.
Is USA the ONLy place outside of Poland? Maybe he is leaving to Chile
or Madagascar? He is still leaving the country.
RPP
Hey American, when you win a war come talk to us. Because for all the
professionality of your army, USA is still to win a major war by
themselves. Vietnam was a big fuck up wasnt it.
As for wasting resources, how is having your passport checked a waste
of resources? They dont go chasing them all over the world but a
simple passport check on the border is a cost effective measure.
As for Poland losing in 7 days to Germany? Check out your sources
because Poland didnt surrender in WW2.
And finally, an American shouldnt be laughing at anyone's intellect,
since it is wll known that aside from being fat Americans are also
pretty stupid.
RPP
>Normal people take a cruise or otherwise take vacations to relax. If
>they go to see some ruins etc. during vacations there are many more
>attractive historical places out there than Poland. There are more ruins
>and historical places in Zimbabwe and in Iraq but even less Americans
>would visit those places. Maybe you and couple of other morons visit
>those places but get real. . . the trip there is not exactly as easy as
>a trip to Disneyland.
Dianeyland is a destination for children and morons. Is that why Yanks
are so eager to go there?
RPP
>
>Use common sense and read the warnings on the State Department page so
>you know what to expect there as far as general conditions, crime and
>the like.
Crime? I think that an American visiting any place outside the USA
should not be worried about crime, seeing as USA's crime rate is the
highest in the western world.
RPP
Americans should be barred from entering any nation. Yanks are usually
rude, crude, abnoxious and idiotic, and anyone can spot a group of
them from a mile away..just feel for the earth shaking as 300 lb lard
buckets walk down the street.
>--
marcus
[...]
> Poland is a good destination. BTW, Poland is a top 10 world
The tenth most popular world destination after Philippines, just after
Sri Lanka but before Bangladesh and Iraq :-)
RPP
>"RPP" <le...@mail.netinc.ca> wrote in message
>news:399ef2e2...@news.kwom.com...
>[...]
>> Poland is a good destination. BTW, Poland is a top 10 world
>> destination in terms of how many people visit it. [...]
>
>The tenth most popular world destination after Philippines, just after
>Sri Lanka but before Bangladesh and Iraq :-)
Before you write stupid things, check your facts. But you are
American, being stupid is your national trait.
RPP
>"RPP" <le...@mail.netinc.ca> wrote in message
>news:399ef2e2...@news.kwom.com...
>[...]
>> Poland is a good destination. BTW, Poland is a top 10 world
>> destination in terms of how many people visit it. [...]
>
>The tenth most popular world destination after Philippines, just after
>Sri Lanka but before Bangladesh and Iraq :-)
Neither Sri Lanka or Bangladesh or Phillipines are on the list, which
you can find at
http://geography.about.com/science/geography/library/weekly/aa050899.htm?iam=mt&terms=%22world+tourism%22
Because you are American and lazy, I will paste it for you:
1. France - 70,000,000
2. Spain - 47,743,000
3. United States - 47,127,000
4. Italy - 34,829,000
5. United Kingdom - 25,475,000
6. China - 24,000,000
7. Mexico - 19,300,000
8. Poland - 18,820,000
9. Canada - 18,659,000
10. Austria - 17,282,000
11. Germany - 16,504,000
12. Czech Republic - 16,325,000
13. Russia - 15,810,000
14. Hungary - 14,660,000
15. Portugal - 11,800,000
16. Greece - 11,077,000
17. Switzerland - 11,025,00
18. Hong Kong* - 9,600,000
19. Turkey - 9,200,000
20. Thailand - 7,720,000
Poland is 4th in Europe as a destination.
SBobrow940
much enterprising.
Then why in hell did he move
to America if he had to leave behind the
only intelligent people on the whole planet?
S.B.
------------------------------------
Subject: Re: American Passports in Poland
From: le...@mail.netinc.ca (RPP)
Date: 8/19/00 3:46 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id: <399f0d9b...@news.kwom.com>
On Sat, 19 Aug 2000 17:54:19 -0400, "marcus" <ma...@veil.net> wrote:
>"RPP" <le...@mail.netinc.ca> wrote in message
>Marcus
SBobrow940
So, he is trading 2 years of service for
life of an illegal in Chile, or Madagascar...
As a matter of fact, you do not write/say
"leaving to Chile".
The correct form is to be "leaving _for_ Chile".
But, I may leave it _to_ you to improve your English.
S.B.
------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: American Passports in Poland
From: le...@mail.netinc.ca (RPP)
Date: 8/19/00 3:42 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id: <399f0d46...@news.kwom.com>
SBobrow940
This maybe turning "szpartan"/RPP off.
Another thing that scares him from going there is Goofy - his look-alike.
S.B.
-------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: American Passports in Poland
From: le...@mail.netinc.ca (RPP)
Date: 8/19/00 3:47 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id: <399f0e60...@news.kwom.com>
SBobrow940
He is scared of tall and erect people.
S.B.
----------------------------------------
Subject: Re: American Passports in Poland
From: le...@mail.netinc.ca (RPP)
Date: 8/19/00 3:49 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id: <399f0ea4...@news.kwom.com>
SBobrow940
There are 2 possible reasons why he feels like a moving target and is affraid
to go south of the border:
1) He is not a Canadian citizan.
If it is so, he cannot go south without visa.
2) He suffers from panic attacts without a
cause (alcoholism?).
S.B.
---------------------------------------
Subject: Re: American Passports in Poland
From: le...@mail.netinc.ca (RPP)
Date: 8/19/00 3:51 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id: <399f0f2c...@news.kwom.com>
marcus
> >
> >I think they just amended the law several days ago but that doesn't
mean
> >that tomorrow there won't be another change. The laws, just as the
> >governments there in Poland in particular and that region as a whole,
> >change often so travelers should always look for the latest reports
and
> >warnings from the State Department before embarking on a trip.
>
> Americans should be barred from entering any nation. Yanks are usually
> rude, crude, abnoxious and idiotic, and anyone can spot a group of
> them from a mile away..just feel for the earth shaking as 300 lb lard
> buckets walk down the street.
Do you also have deficiency of vitamin B-12?
marcus
>
> Crime? I think that an American visiting any place outside the USA
> should not be worried about crime, seeing as USA's crime rate is the
> highest in the western world.
The rates are falling for past twenty years but how would you know that?
marcus
>
> Hey American, when you win a war come talk to us. Because for all the
> professionality of your army, USA is still to win a major war by
> themselves. Vietnam was a big fuck up wasnt it.
> As for wasting resources, how is having your passport checked a waste
> of resources? They dont go chasing them all over the world but a
> simple passport check on the border is a cost effective measure.
Hey stup, didn't you just write that Poland is the only country in the
world that checks passports at the borders when people are about to
leave the country instead of when they are entering the country as is
the case everywhere else? As far as Nam I wasn't aware that Americans
have surrendered in seven days there. I told you not to relay on those
old "dumb polack jokes" archives too much for your information.
> As for Poland losing in 7 days to Germany? Check out your sources
> because Poland didn't surrender in WW2.
Just because there is a polish joke about Poland winning the war with
Germany in seven days it is not necessarily mean this is what has
happened there.
> And finally, an American shouldnt be laughing at anyone's intellect,
> since it is wll known that aside from being fat Americans are also
> pretty stupid.
I haven't seen an American or anybody laughing at anybody's intellect
here but it seems from what you're writing here you don't have any )-:
SBobrow940
If this is such a stupid country?
On the other hand, more logical would be calculation based on the number of
visitors
per capita of the host nation.
Then Greece would be first.
Unless someone is waiting for Greece to
beat France...
100,000,000 visitors in a 6,000,000 Greece?????? That would be nice to see...
S.B.
---------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: American Passports in Poland
From: le...@mail.netinc.ca (RPP)
Date: 8/19/00 4:02 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id: <399f1173...@news.kwom.com>
On Sat, 19 Aug 2000 19:02:12 -0400, "marcus" <ma...@veil.net> wrote:
>"RPP" <le...@mail.netinc.ca> wrote in message
>--
eng...@my-deja.com
This is the transcript of an actual radio conversation of a
US naval ship with Canadian authorities off the coast of
Newfoundland released by the Chief of Naval
Operations, 10-10-95.
#1: Please divert your course 15 degrees to the North to
avoid a collision.
#2: Recommend you divert YOUR course 15 degrees to the South
to avoid a collision.
#1: This is the Captain of a US Navy ship. I say again,
divert YOUR course.
#2: No. I say again, you divert YOUR course.
#1. THIS IS THE AIRCRAFT CARRIER USS John F. Kennedy. WE ARE A
LARGE WARSHIP OF THE US NAVY. DIVERT YOUR COURSE NOW!
#2. This is a lighthouse. Your call.
marcus
> >[...]
> >> Poland is a good destination. BTW, Poland is a top 10 world
> >> destination in terms of how many people visit it. [...]
> >
> >The tenth most popular world destination after Philippines, just
after
> >Sri Lanka but before Bangladesh and Iraq :-)
>
> American, being stupid is your national trait.
Are you really as dumb as the pole or is it your insecurity that forces
you to call everybody else stupid. Everybody knows about the those old
"dumb Pollack jokes" but if you are that insecure referring back to
those "stupid Pollack jokes" will make things only more difficult for
you.
marcus
discussion about American Passports. Nobody argues here that number of
visitors to Poland from Belarus, Ukraine and possibly Bangladesh might
be many times larger than from the United States -just the opposite. If
you would stop for a moment and look at the header you may notice
"American Passports in Poland". How many Ukrainians visiting Poland have
American Passports? If you are looking for the Ukrainian Passport
discussion it ain't here.
Unbelievable, but they are getting dumber by the minute.
--
Marcus
______________________________
to reply remove "l" from email address
i"RPP" <le...@mail.netinc.ca> wrote in message
news:399f1173...@news.kwom.com...
> On Sat, 19 Aug 2000 19:02:12 -0400, "marcus" <ma...@veil.net> wrote:
>
> >"RPP" <le...@mail.netinc.ca> wrote in message
> >news:399ef2e2...@news.kwom.com...
> >[...]
> >> Poland is a good destination. BTW, Poland is a top 10 world
> >> destination in terms of how many people visit it. [...]
> >
> >The tenth most popular world destination after Philippines, just
after
> >Sri Lanka but before Bangladesh and Iraq :-)
>
marcus
> On Sat, 19 Aug 2000 17:40:52 -0400, "marcus" <ma...@veil.net> wrote:
>
> >Normal people take a cruise or otherwise take vacations to relax. If
> >they go to see some ruins etc. during vacations there are many more
> >attractive historical places out there than Poland. There are more
ruins
> >and historical places in Zimbabwe and in Iraq but even less Americans
> >would visit those places. Maybe you and couple of other morons visit
> >those places but get real. . . the trip there is not exactly as easy
as
> >a trip to Disneyland.
>
>
> Dianeyland is a destination for children and morons. Is that why Yanks
> are so eager to go there?
I'll take children and morons and even Yanks over dumb poles anytime :)
You may be on to something here. Maybe they want to get away from dumb
poles at Disneyland?
marcus
dumb pole which seems to be impossible or you are putting us on. You
just told us that the reason Poland is the only country in the world
checking passport on a way out of the country instead on a way in
because they are looking for polish deserters leaving for Chile and
Madagascar? With a track record of Polish military I think that Polish
government should do themselves a favor and ship the whole military to
Chile and Madagascar immediately.
--
Marcus
______________________________
to reply remove "l" from email address
"RPP" <le...@mail.netinc.ca> wrote in message
news:399f0d46...@news.kwom.com...
marcus
Pollack who won the war helping the American and the Russian. . . Get
real.
--
Marcus
______________________________
to reply remove "l" from email address
"RPP" <le...@mail.netinc.ca> wrote in message
news:399f25ce...@news.kwom.com...
> On Sat, 19 Aug 2000 20:16:54 -0400, "marcus" <ma...@veil.net> wrote:
>
> >Nobody can be that stupid :) Either your IQ must be lower of that of
a
> >dumb pole which seems to be impossible or you are putting us on. You
> >just told us that the reason Poland is the only country in the world
> >checking passport on a way out of the country instead on a way in
> >because they are looking for polish deserters leaving for Chile and
> >Madagascar? With a track record of Polish military I think that
Polish
> >government should do themselves a favor and ship the whole military
to
> >Chile and Madagascar immediately.
>
> Check your US history, you never won a war on your own.
>
>
>
>
patient
RPP wrote:
>
> BTW, Poland is a top 10 world destination in terms of how many people visit it.
> So you are wrong that only people who need to go there.
Well, how many of those people are actually dual citizens, you seem to disrespect
so much, visiting their families and friends? Maybe the very same friends try to
facilitate their (dual citizens') stay in Poland demanding they produce
Polish passports while leaving the country?
I believe you don't count all those "mrowkas"/"ants" engaging in small cross-border
trade and similar as genuine visitors/citizens. Maybe it would be more informative
to estimate the net amount of money spent in Poland by various "visitors" and "tourists"
(not counting various passport, "legalization", "validation", etc. fees paid by
dual citizens, of course).
patient
marcus wrote:
>
> Are you really as dumb as the pole or is it your insecurity that forces
> you to call everybody else stupid. Everybody knows about the those old
> "dumb Pollack jokes" but if you are that insecure referring back to
> those "stupid Pollack jokes" will make things only more difficult for
> you.
Well, talking about dumbness? That word should be spelled "Polack",
if you must use it at all. Who is actually "dumb" is another issue.
marcus
>
> I didnt say they werent falling, but that doesnt mean that as o TODAY
> they are STILL among the highest of not the highest.
I wonder what "highest of not the highest" means and how it relates to
Poland being the only country in the world checking passports on the way
out (supposedly looking for deserters from. . . Polish army:).
marcus
> >
> >Just because there is a polish joke about Poland winning the war with
> >Germany in seven days it is not necessarily mean this is what has
> >happened there.
> >
>
> surrender with Germany.
Of course it was Poland that attacked Germany in 1939 and the Germans
surrendered after seven days after being intimidated by fierce Polish
soldiers on scary horses :)
patient
Hlon...@webtv.net wrote:
>
> Would you have the same kind of problems ,if you were holding an
> Ukrainian passport instead an American one ?
You've just hit the nail on the head.
I really, really doubt dual Polish-Ukrainian or Polish-Kazakh
citizens would have ever any problems leaving Poland with their
Ukrainian or Kazakh passports only. :)
Many of those from Kazakhstan just dream of being stopped
at the border, while leaving Poland, until they acquire their
Polish passports.
And remember that this law was ostensibly crafted exactly to treat
all Polish citizens equally :)))
For Poles living in the former Soviet Union Polish authorities
(the Sejm/Parliament itself?) devised even the so-called "Karta Polaka"
("The Pole's Charter/Card?") to avoid treating them as full Polish citizens
and issuing Polish passports to them.
patient
>
> Would you have the same kind of problems ,if you were holding an
> Ukrainian passport instead an American one ?
You've just hit the nail on the head.
I really, really doubt dual Polish-Ukrainian or Polish-Kazakh
citizens would have ever any problems leaving Poland with their
Ukrainian or Kazakh passports only. :)
Many of those from Kazakhstan just dream of being stopped
at the border, while leaving Poland, until they acquire their
Polish passports.
And remember that this law was ostensibly crafted exactly to treat
all Polish citizens equally :)))
For Poles living in the former Soviet Union the Polish authorities
eng...@my-deja.com
RPP
>"RPP" <le...@mail.netinc.ca> wrote in message
>news:399f0f2c...@news.kwom.com...
>>
>> Crime? I think that an American visiting any place outside the USA
>> should not be worried about crime, seeing as USA's crime rate is the
>> highest in the western world.
>
>The rates are falling for past twenty years but how would you know that?
I didnt say they werent falling, but that doesnt mean that as o TODAY
they are STILL among the highest of not the highest.
>--
RPP
RPP
>"RPP" <le...@mail.netinc.ca> wrote in message
>news:399f0f2c...@news.kwom.com...
>>
>> Crime? I think that an American visiting any place outside the USA
>> should not be worried about crime, seeing as USA's crime rate is the
>> highest in the western world.
>
>The rates are falling for past twenty years but how would you know that?
>--
>Marcus
Btw, USA's prison population has recently passed the 2 million mark.
Way to go USA.
RPP
>"RPP" <le...@mail.netinc.ca> wrote in message
>news:399f0d9b...@news.kwom.com...
>>
>> Hey American, when you win a war come talk to us. Because for all the
>> professionality of your army, USA is still to win a major war by
>> themselves. Vietnam was a big fuck up wasnt it.
>> As for wasting resources, how is having your passport checked a waste
>> of resources? They dont go chasing them all over the world but a
>> simple passport check on the border is a cost effective measure.
>
>Hey stup, didn't you just write that Poland is the only country in the
>world that checks passports at the borders when people are about to
>leave the country instead of when they are entering the country as is
>the case everywhere else? As far as Nam I wasn't aware that Americans
>have surrendered in seven days there. I told you not to relay on those
>old "dumb polack jokes" archives too much for your information.
>
>> As for Poland losing in 7 days to Germany? Check out your sources
>> because Poland didn't surrender in WW2.
>
>Just because there is a polish joke about Poland winning the war with
>Germany in seven days it is not necessarily mean this is what has
>happened there.
>
History isnt America's strong point is it. Poland never signed a
surrender with Germany.
As for Vietnam, USA ddnt surrender because USA was the attacker. That
still doesnt change the fact that USA got their asses kicked. As for 7
day defeats, USA in Somalia fits that bill:)
>> And finally, an American shouldnt be laughing at anyone's intellect,
>> since it is wll known that aside from being fat Americans are also
>> pretty stupid.
>
>I haven't seen an American or anybody laughing at anybody's intellect
>here but it seems from what you're writing here you don't have any )-:
SBobrow940
"Check your US history, you never won a war on your own."
Just a couple of questions:
1) Who was George Washington?
2) Who was Sam Houston?
3) Who was Douglas McArthur?
4) Who was Theodore ("Teddy") Roosevelt, and the Rough Rider cavalry?
Your answers so far qualify you for a dumb
pole (do not confuse it with a Pole).
S.B.
----------------------------------------
Subject: Re: American Passports in Poland
From: le...@mail.netinc.ca (RPP)
Date: 8/19/00 5:27 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id: <399f25ce...@news.kwom.com>
SBobrow940
"they are STILL among the highest of not the highest."
Is that mean "The highest among the lowest"?
S.B.
-----------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: American Passports in Poland
From: le...@mail.netinc.ca (RPP)
Date: 8/19/00 5:26 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id: <399f2593...@news.kwom.com>
Jan Kinski
passports to get out of Poland?
JK
>You don't get it, "szpartan"/RPP?
>
>So, he is trading 2 years of service for
>life of an illegal in Chile, or Madagascar...
>
>As a matter of fact, you do not write/say
>"leaving to Chile".
>The correct form is to be "leaving _for_ Chile".
>But, I may leave it _to_ you to improve your English.
>
>S.B.
Jan Kinski
JK
>I use my Polish pasport in Poland. Why? Because I am a Pole not an
>American.
SBobrow940
What a feisty little kike we have here. Can you talk a fart
at the same time ? You are so funny, your washing machine
must be laughing while taking the piss out of your undies.
S.B.
----------------------------
Subject: Re: American Passports in Poland
From: "marcus" ma...@veil.net
Date: 08/19/00 7:39 PM EST
Message-id: <spua89...@corp.supernews.com>
SBobrow940
Here's one:
A kike walks into the drug store and asks for a packet
of condoms.The pharmacist says, "That'll be $5.00 with
the tax." "Tacks?", the jew exclaims, "I thought you
rolled them on!"
S.B.
-------------------------
Subject: Re: American Passports in Poland
From: "marcus" ma...@veil.net
Date: 08/19/00 4:54 PM EST
Message-id: <spu0hvl...@corp.supernews.com>
>
>Are you sure you are not digging all this stupidity from the old "dumb
>pollack jokes" archives?
SBobrow940
Shut the fuck up you little ukrainian pussy.
S.B.
-------------------------
Subject: Re: American Passports in Poland
From: sbobr...@aol.com (SBobrow940)
Date: 08/19/00 7:48 PM EST
Message-id: <20000819204830...@ng-fw1.aol.com>
Rudi
>Normal people take a cruise or otherwise take vacations to relax.
Marcus, my boy! Just what the hell is your problem? Are the people who
post in this area are typing too fast for you?
You are posting to soc.culture.polish.
Believe me, the people you'll find here do not travel to Poland to
relax on its "golden" sands. Allow me present you with my own "top ten
list" that will help set you straight.
The top ten reasons why people travel to Poland
===============================================
10) To see the country from which their ancestors emigrated.
9) To visit relatives and friends.
8) To attend the wedding of their Uncle Zbyszek's pregnant
daughter, Malgorzata.
7) They were recently booted off the "Survivor" island
and are looking for a place where no one will recognize them.
6) They're going to Gniezno to see the "Doors" (no, we're not
talking about the 60s amerykanski zespól muzyczny).
5) They received a two-week vacation to Gorzów Wielkopolski
from Pat Sajak as a parting gift after bombing out on
Wheel of Fortune.
4) They're tired of paying exhorbitant prices for imported
Wyborowa and Luxusowa.
3) Kielbasa Krakowska just doesn't taste the same between
two slices of Wonder bread.
2) They have heard, rightly so, that Polish girls are the
most beautiful creatures on the face of the earth.
-- and the No. 1 reason why people travel to Poland --
1) They're looking for their car that was stolen in Los Angeles
last year.
and...@my-deja.com
agreements with the USA that provide that a person traveling on a US
passport with a tourist visa (OK, that pre-dates the visa waiver
arrangement in Poland but this makes no difference) remains within the
terms of that visa will be treated as a US citizen even if the other
country could otherwise claim him/her as its citizen. That is very
important from the standpoint of consular protection and military
service liability. There have been cases cited on this newsgroup of
naturalized Polish-Australian(s) who were prosecuted or threatened with
prosecution for draft evasion.
A.
In article <399D7745...@hotmail.com>,
pad...@hotmail.com wrote:
> Because it is not $60 - check the prices, and he will be under a
Polish law
> - which he does not know anything about. Consider this: For some
reason -
> just an example - You are considered Chinese on Your visit to China,
and a
> corrupted Policeman locks You up (yes I know there is no corruption in
> Poland), You do not speak the language, and the only rights you have
is as
> on Chinese citizen - American Consulate/Ambassy will not help
(provide law
> explaination/lawyers/assistance/call home or at least look into the
matter
> as foreign government) since you are identifying your self with
Chinese
> passport. And I can continue and continue - with possible problems
that
> await someone bearing a Polish passport, who has no clue and does not
speak
> the language served in US Forces etc.
>
> RPP wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 18 Aug 2000 03:20:01 GMT, peter...@my-deja.com wrote:
> >
> > >Thanks for a quick and thorough answer. This is madness!!! I am
> > >afraid that the only result of this idiotic legislature will be
less
> > >visits to the old country. For one thing I am not going to risk
me and
> > >my family becoming hostages of some "WOP" madmen. I miss Poland,
but
> > >not that much.
> > >Peter
> > >
> >
> > Why dont you want to spend 60 dollars on a passport?
RPP
>Too much stress, "szpartan"/RPP?
>
>"Check your US history, you never won a war on your own."
>
>Just a couple of questions:
>1) Who was George Washington?
Washington was a minor ally of the French army who defeated the
English in that is known today as the "War of Independence". The
American Army, made up of a few thousand poorly armed men was a minor
ally of a large French army.
>2) Who was Sam Houston?
Since when does the Texas Revolution count as a war?
>3) Who was Douglas McArthur?
Of Korean War fame? Last time I checked, USA was not the only force
there.
>4) Who was Theodore ("Teddy") Roosevelt, and the Rough Rider cavalry?
Anyone who calls the Spanish-American scuffle a war is in serious need
of an education.
marcus
news:8nosac$l1j$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> Both Poland (925 UNTS 34 No. 13187 (1974)) and China have consular
> agreements with the USA that provide that a person traveling on a US
> passport with a tourist visa (OK, that pre-dates the visa waiver
> arrangement in Poland but this makes no difference) remains within the
> terms of that visa will be treated as a US citizen even if the other
> country could otherwise claim him/her as its citizen. That is very
> important from the standpoint of consular protection and military
> service liability. There have been cases cited on this newsgroup of
> naturalized Polish-Australian(s) who were prosecuted or threatened
with
> prosecution for draft evasion.
>
> A.
Since 1974 not many people were ever aware of this particular agreement
but this may be a reason why there is so much unsubstantiated
information about mistreatment of travelers but no hard facts on anyone
actually being mistreated while using an American passport. Adding to
the confusion furthermore is the fact that those were specific
agreements between USA and Poland and have nothing to do with the
existing or changing passport laws or discussion about passports in
Poland in general and have no application to users that have been
mistreated while having other passports.
marcus
cold there. I enjoyed your great Top Ten list and could use number two
as an excuse to go there right now :-)
--
Marcus
______________________________
to reply remove "l" from email address
"Rudi" <czerwona...@redseven.de> wrote in message
news:39a490dd...@News.CIS.DFN.DE...
and...@my-deja.com
outrageous when (as recently in Serbia/Montenegro) governments deny
immediate contact between consul and citizen.
This has nothing to do with guilt or innocence at all, but simply
assurance of rights freely negotiated by governments (in Poland's case,
to keep tourist money and family gifts coming in...)
There used to be a booklet handed out in US passport agencies that
explained the issues. Since the end of the Cold War the problem is
largely with Cuba and China. Poland is not a difficult country to
travel in.
I could have discussed the issue of EU travellers, but the original
query concerned the USA. There used to be quite some concern among
Polish emigrants in Britain concerning whether they should renounce
Polish nationality upon being naturalized in Britain. Today that is not
much of an issue.
Mistreatment is relative. I do not think there are many cases of
objective mistreatment. Sometimes it is handy to have a status that
makes the otherwise-officious bureaucrat to think twice out of fear of
losing his (or her) job. Communism created a certain arrogance among
bureaucrats that was almost a parody of that in the country where it
was virtually invented: France. I have actually had French bureaucrats
condescend to give me what I want ... because I speak French. I don't
know if speaking Polish helps in Poland; I usually speak in louder
English, schoolboy Russian, or whatever else will work. I never found
anyone who spoke English or any other languge I speak with any
proficiency, not even in airline offices where one would expect to.
A.
>
> Since 1974 not many people were ever aware of this particular
agreement
> but this may be a reason why there is so much unsubstantiated
> information about mistreatment of travelers but no hard facts on
anyone
> actually being mistreated while using an American passport. Adding to
> the confusion furthermore is the fact that those were specific
> agreements between USA and Poland and have nothing to do with the
> existing or changing passport laws or discussion about passports in
> Poland in general and have no application to users that have been
> mistreated while having other passports.
> --
> Marcus
> ______________________________
> to reply remove "l" from email address
>
>
SBobrow940
Revolution, "szpartan"/RPP?
Again, too much of something?
2 ")Since when does the Texas Revolution count as a war?"
It never is called a "revolution".
Since when it does not count as a war?
Again, too much of something?
3) Check who took Japanese surrender on Aug. 14, 1945.
Who else took the surrender?
The Soviets do not count.
Again, too much of something?
4) "Anyone who calls the Spanish-American scuffle a war is in serious need of
an education."
Do you have that education?
The war took 5 months. It resulted in the
annexation of The Philippines, Hawaii, Guam, Cuba, and Porto Rico.
And made feasible to start work on the Panama Canal.
A nice scuffle!
NOW: Can you tell "szpartan"/RPP which
war was won by _Poland_ single-handedly,
without any help, I mean no help from
foreign merceneries, no Rus units, no Lithuanians, no Swedes, no Tatars ?
S.B.
P.S. Do not drink/smoke stuff and write.
---------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: American Passports in Poland
From: le...@mail.netinc.ca (RPP)
Date: 8/20/00 9:36 AM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id: <39a006b1...@news.kwom.com>
SBobrow940
I have a hard prove of such a thing:
A bearer of the US passport, a dual-national, had to buy his way out
of Poland (had to pay a Border Guard).
The plane was waiting and the guard talked him into paying for his way out.
S.B.
-----------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: American Passports in Poland
From: "marcus" ma...@veil.net
Date: 8/20/00 10:18 AM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id: <sq05uf...@corp.supernews.com>
<and...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8nosac$l1j$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> Both Poland (925 UNTS 34 No. 13187 (1974)) and China have consular
> agreements with the USA that provide that a person traveling on a US
> passport with a tourist visa (OK, that pre-dates the visa waiver
> arrangement in Poland but this makes no difference) remains within the
> terms of that visa will be treated as a US citizen even if the other
> country could otherwise claim him/her as its citizen. That is very
> important from the standpoint of consular protection and military
> service liability. There have been cases cited on this newsgroup of
> naturalized Polish-Australian(s) who were prosecuted or threatened
with
> prosecution for draft evasion.
>
RPP
>1) Where, and how, did you see that French Army taking part in the American
>Revolution, "szpartan"/RPP?
>Again, too much of something?
Read about history you idiot.
>
>2 ")Since when does the Texas Revolution count as a war?"
>
> It never is called a "revolution".
> Since when it does not count as a war?
> Again, too much of something?
It is actually called the Texas Revolution. again, you failed to read
history?
"Washington's victory at Saratoga was the turning point in the
American Revolution. The rebels had gained international recognition
for their efforts, and managed to secure an alliance between the
French government and Continental Congress. As part of the alliance,
the French agreed to support the colonists until they defeated the
British. In return, the colonists opened up trade with France and
recognized French claims to territory in the West Indies
By 1783, they were forced to abandon these territories and retreat to
Yorktown, Virginia. Washington rushed troops to Yorktown and quickly
surrounded the British. A French fleet prevented British retreat by
sea, and Great Britain was forced to surrender its entire army on
October 19, 1781. "
>A nice scuffle!
>
>NOW: Can you tell "szpartan"/RPP which
>war was won by _Poland_ single-handedly,
>without any help, I mean no help from
>foreign merceneries, no Rus units, no Lithuanians, no Swedes, no Tatars ?
For starters, 13 years war. What about 1920 war with Soviet Union? How
about 1683 campaign against Turks where Lithuanians did not take part
in? How about the many wars Boleslaw I or III fought with HRE?
Poland's war under Kazimierz Great in Red Rus and annexation of Lwow?
Need I stop counting SB?
SB, you seem to always be spewing hatred at Poland. Why are you here
if all you do is talk shit?
Peter
RPP
>"among the highest of not the highest" wow - this is deep !!! :))))))))))))
Ahh yes, the spelling flame. Way to go yank, you really showed me.
SBobrow940
http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/books/amh/amh-03.htm
The French fleet faught a different war and that one ended at Trafalgar (1805).
The word "revolution" is very seldom (if ever) used to describe the _war_ with
Mexico over Texas.
These were Americans themselves without
any foreign support, who fought it.
http://www.governor.state.tx.us/Texas/history_Republic.html
You even did not try to poke any holes in
the facts you have just learned about the Spanish-American war of 1898.
Polish Army of the Commonwealth _allways_ had foreign soldiers in its ranks.
If Lithuanians did not take part in the war against the Turks, then there were
Germans, Scotts, and others - paied merceneries/professional soldiers who were
fighting along Polish units.
The same way was waged the war of 1920. Why was Capt. Charles DeGaulle
decorated with the Virtuti Millitari?
Why is the fuss about the graves of Americans and Frenchmen at the Polish
cementary in Lviv/Lwow ?
Was Gen.Haller's Army really a Polish
Army? It was mustered by French.
The Renault tanks used in the battle of Warsaw were supplied and maned by
French. Airmen often were Americans.
Annexation of Lwow was just a "scuffle" -
using your verbage (it should be qualified
rather as a scarmish).
I would credit only the King Boleslaw I
for waging a war against Germans without
having any particular ally outside Poland.
But even that claim may be questioned
after a more thorow research.
Check the Rus connections of the King
Kazimierz the Great before you start claiming that he was waging wars without
allies.
In other words, stop smoking stuff, "szpartan"/RPP.
Do not drink and write.
S.B.
=================
Subject: Re: American Passports in Poland
From: le...@mail.netinc.ca (RPP)
Date: 8/20/00 8:55 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id: <39a0a547....@news.kwom.com>
Rudi
>I was arguing just the opposite and besides the beaches are simply too
>cold there. I enjoyed your great Top Ten list and could use number two
>as an excuse to go there right now :-)
Actually, the beaches are quite warm. It's the water in the Baltic Sea
that's too damn cold. But with all those hot chicks sunning their
exquisite bods you won't want to leave the beach anyway. And take your
binoculars.
and...@my-deja.com
unfortunately, although perhaps less likely where a foreigner is
concerned because if he goes missing some consul will come looking for
him. Also, everybody seems to have a mobile phone these days.
In my experience, the best way to put off a "public official" asking
for a dash in Poland is to ask for a receipt. At the very least you'll
get a discount for no receipt.
When Poland cleans up its act it will be ready to join the EU.
A.
In article <20000820205817...@ng-ca1.aol.com>,
sbobr...@aol.com (SBobrow940) wrote:
> Marcus,
> I have a hard prove of such a thing:
> A bearer of the US passport, a dual-national, had to buy his way out
> of Poland (had to pay a Border Guard).
> The plane was waiting and the guard talked him into paying for his
way out.
>
> S.B.
SBobrow940
Seems you have never been cornered
by a corrupt system.
S.B.
---------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: American Passports in Poland
From: and...@my-deja.com
Date: 8/21/00 7:36 AM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id: <8nrepu$f1m$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>
and...@my-deja.com
and official orders, one is not at risk.
And, yes, I spent much of my career around corrupt systems. And no, my
opinion is not off the wall. It is fear of loss of a civil-service job
that keeps the cretins in line.
A.
In article <20000821112823...@ng-ce1.aol.com>,
marcus
> On Mon, 21 Aug 2000 04:04:28 GMT, Peter <pad...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >"among the highest of not the highest" wow - this is deep !!!
:))))))))))))
>
> Ahh yes, the spelling flame. Way to go yank, you really showed me.
The spelling flame? Hey kid, he's not pointing any spelling errors but
the fact that you are just not making any sense.
marcus
Quite warm beaches? Where do you normally go to a beach? Anchorage?
Murmansk?
As far as hot chicks are concerned you are right -- they could melt the
whole state of Alaska and parts of Siberia in no time :)
marcus
news:20000820205817...@ng-ca1.aol.com...
> Marcus,
> I have a hard prove of such a thing:
> A bearer of the US passport, a dual-national, had to buy his way out
> of Poland (had to pay a Border Guard).
> The plane was waiting and the guard talked him into paying for his way
out.
Like many of the stories circulated here and elsewhere this seems to be
a little too ridiculous to be believable. Besides, normally the
penalties for bribes would be many times more severe than any penalties
for having (or not) a passport. As far as international tradition and
conventions go passports are needed to enter a country -- no one ever
needs a passport to leave a country. I don't think it would be any
different in Poland :)
RPP
>
>"RPP" <le...@mail.netinc.ca> wrote in message
>news:39a0ac84....@news.kwom.com...
>> On Mon, 21 Aug 2000 04:04:28 GMT, Peter <pad...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >"among the highest of not the highest" wow - this is deep !!!
>:))))))))))))
>>
>> Ahh yes, the spelling flame. Way to go yank, you really showed me.
>
>The spelling flame? Hey kid, he's not pointing any spelling errors but
>the fact that you are just not making any sense.
look at your keyboard. Do you see that the 'i' and 'o' key are beside
each other? You figure it out.
SBobrow940
My first response to you was that it seems you had never been cornered by a
corrupt system before.
S.B.
P.S. A prove is there.
-------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: American Passports in Poland
From: "marcus" ma...@veil.net
Date: 8/21/00 4:50 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id: <sq3iuaa...@corp.supernews.com>
Peter
posting this garbage to soc.culture.usa is giving us Poles a bad name. Take the
chill pill, and comment when you do have something constructive to add to a
discussion.
Peter
corruption.
Peter
taxes (probably under "Tips":))))))
and...@my-deja.com wrote:
> Shakedowns by and bribery of public officials is not unknown in Poland,
> unfortunately, although perhaps less likely where a foreigner is
> concerned because if he goes missing some consul will come looking for
> him. Also, everybody seems to have a mobile phone these days.
>
> In my experience, the best way to put off a "public official" asking
> for a dash in Poland is to ask for a receipt. At the very least you'll
> get a discount for no receipt.
>
> When Poland cleans up its act it will be ready to join the EU.
>
> A.
>
> In article <20000820205817...@ng-ca1.aol.com>,
> sbobr...@aol.com (SBobrow940) wrote:
> > Marcus,
> > I have a hard prove of such a thing:
> > A bearer of the US passport, a dual-national, had to buy his way out
> > of Poland (had to pay a Border Guard).
> > The plane was waiting and the guard talked him into paying for his
> way out.
> >
> > S.B.
>
peter...@my-deja.com
the civil war history fifteen times over and over but the real history
of the world (you know, other countries, etc.?), so you can say
something about polish military. While at it, take spelling, it may
help you land an exciting job at McDonald's.
PM