Ping ARINDAM and IVC history buffs
kangarooistan
red sandstone mate , check out the link at the bottom and DUNNS four
mill in Mt Barker South Australia mate 1844 one of the very early
buildings
Malcolm’s studies place the building as one of the oldest in Mount
Barker, created around 1850-60. There are quite a few such buildings
in Mount Barker. Where did they get these reasonably well-cut
stones?
They did not have any stones like this sort from any quarry nearby.
The likelihood is that they picked up the stones that were already
available, in the local area. Undeniably, the stones shown below are
well-cut and are thus unlike the other stone houses in the area which
used local stones, that were more roughly finished and by no means as
pretty.
Modern buildings are reusing the stones, which Malcolm said were the
rejects from India 2500+ years ago, come as ballast in the Bronze
Age. The pink stone compares favourably to the red stone used in
India’s famous forts, such as Lal Quila.
-------------------------------------------------------------
note similarities with Egypt as well , identical
http://www.trincoll.edu/~greger/Valley%20of%20the%20Kings%20--%20Hatshepset%27s%20Temple,%20Punt%20Expedition.JPG
http://www.trincoll.edu/~greger/Valley%20of%20the%20Kings%20--%20Hatshepset%27s%20Temple,%20Punt%20Expedition.JPG
kangarooistan
Hi Arindam , did you see the PIC from Hatsheput temple using pink /
buiour
mill in Mt Barker South Australia mate built c 1844 one of the very
-------------------------------------------------------------
It is entirely possible several different traders visited south
aiustralia over the several thousands of years of the bronze age
OR the one TRADER delivering loads of TIN to several different
CUSTOMERS and back loading red pink sandstone from several consumer
countries / Empires over a VERY long period
Im almost Certain the Phoenician , Egyptian and Qatari traders had
long presence in South Australia seeking TIN
the IVE led the world in Metallurgy with the IVC about midway between
the TIN mines and the end users its impossible THEY were not in some
way INVOLVED
OR indeed managing / OWNING the mines with the others merely the
CUSTOMERS for the tin / IVC bronze / metal goods
over time the traders probably evolved a lingua franca / shared
language for use between ports IMHO , the sound karta karna kartan
kaurna canaan in the name seems to bob up often in my research ,
while the so called HQ at Mount Barker HAS the Turin Papyrus gold
mine and it IS located at south Australian site , and the name "Per
Amun Angk" Peramangk / "People of the GOD living " People of the
living GOD in English , that clearly looks like EGYPTIAN to me
the IVC seem to be the metal experts most liky to be handling the
metallurgy or perhaps even the owners of the mines , clearly the
Egyptians DID NOT KNOW how to get there , or how to work the metals
until quite late in the Bronze age ,
kanga
=====
hari....@indero.com
stones?"
Consult any ausie geologist who can likely answer your question. There
are now tests to answer your question as to the origin of any stone
examples.
We don't have to suggest imaginative scenarios when the answer is so
easily to hand.
Do you think vikings took stones to egypt?
koolfireiv
Poor guy,he did not know what he is in for mate...my feeling is he
went into hiding.
Arindam Banerjee
Saw the photo in the link you gave. Not sure it looked too pink on my
computer, though. I don't think the Egyptian stones match with what you got
there. It looked more like Indian stuff which was rejected for use, that
you showed me - if the stones in Mount Barker are not local, as you hold.
The Egyptian stones are also larger and the setting is rough. But then, the
colonists could have cut them to size.
Cheers,
Arindam Banrjee.
"kangarooistan" <kangaro...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:f84a4c47-ccce-494d...@k6g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
Arindam Banerjee
<hari....@indero.com> wrote in message
news:4b716419$0$11058$1c46...@news.club.cc.cmu.edu...
> "in Mount Barker. Where did they get these reasonably well-cut
> stones?"
>
> Consult any ausie geologist who can likely answer your question. There
> are now tests to answer your question as to the origin of any stone
> examples.
>
> We don't have to suggest imaginative scenarios when the answer is so
> easily to hand.
Quite right. We have to see the quality of the answer, though. A simple
yes-no response from any authority can satisfy only the weakest of minds.
Besides, authorities often dispute on issues, and so we need to get a range
of opinions on any subject prior to making up our minds one way or the
other.
> Do you think vikings took stones to egypt?
Heh-heh, I told Malcolm that if he put up the theory that the vikings did
the mining around Mount Barker instead of the browns, the chances of the
world's attention for his theory would go up drastically!
Cheers,
Arindam Banerjee.
Arindam Banerjee
Cheers,
Arindam Banerjee
"koolfireiv" <koolfi...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1b68a4fe-3cb7-441a...@o16g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
kangarooistan
> Hello Malcolm,
> Saw the photo in the link you gave. Not sure it looked too pink on my
> computer, though. I don't think the Egyptian stones match with what you got
> there. It looked more like Indian stuff which was rejected for use, that
> you showed me - if the stones in Mount Barker are not local, as you hold.
Hi Arindam , slowly the site gives up its secrets mate , more every
day , there is NIL doubt the Turin Papyrus Gold Mine is INDEED located
in South Australia and following the roads shown on the map tields FAR
more evidence that shown on the TINY map , the site is VAST beyond
imagination mate VAST
Bir Umm Fawakhir: In Ancient Egyptian Mining history simply FAILS
miserably when compared to the South Australian site
it is easy to identify which of the two are the REAL mine ,
especially if you follow the roads marked on the maps to see where
they lead
http://www.google.com.au/search?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&channel=s&hl=en&source=hp&q=turin+papyrus+gold+mine&meta=&btnG=Google+Search
We need to be mindful of several thousand years difference between
many red sandstone buildings presently seen in India , and those of
1200 BC when the Turin Papyrus gold mine site was in use , and ballast
stone was delivered to the South Australian TIN loading docks
granted India HAS the raw material red sandstone , AND the "motives
opportunity and ability " for trade with South australia mine sites
FAR FAR FAR MORE so than anybody else ,
but ballast moved as a secondary factor , it was needed to load OR
offload at destinations , raw ores of Metal moving in and metal goods
traded OUT of IVC would tranfer ballast from the end [ egypt ] user ,
to the source of the RAW material [ South Australia ] , being loaded
and off loaded many times from stockpiles at the wharfs , hence EGYPT
as a sourse may be probable , and South Australia the final "off
loading point" for ballast to build up as all trade went one way ,
the local Aboriginal peoples had little need or " money " to buy
imported goods , and may have been kept poor and compliant as the
best option for visiting traders
we KNOW cloves , grown just north of Australia , HAVE been found in
ancient Syria in 1,700 BC , the time of Turin Papyrus Gold mines and
probably much earlier too in Egypt
Until modern times, cloves grew only on a few islands in the Maluku
Islands (historically called the Spice Islands), including Bacan,
Makian, Moti, Ternate, and Tidore.[9] a day or two sailing time from
some " Spice islands" , to Australia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clove#History
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Karta_ID_Maluku_isl.PNG
http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~vaucher/Genealogy/Documents/Asia/images/spice_route.gif
Nevertheless, they found their way west to the Middle East and Europe
well before the first century AD. Archeologists found cloves within a
ceramic vessel in Syria along with evidence dating the find to within
a few years of 1721 BC.[9]
Cloves, along with nutmeg and pepper, were highly prized in Roman
times, and Pliny the Elder once famously complained that "there is no
year in which India does not drain the Roman Empire of fifty million
sesterces." Cloves were traded by Arabs during the Middle Ages in the
profitable Indian Ocean trade
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clove#History
.
INDIA would not want nor value third grade second hand Egyptian
building stone , it was very wealthy AND had its own red sandstone ,
Egypt had NOTHING India needed hence BALLAST stone was needed on the
return voyages, flat stack-able blocks are ideal to use at the bottom
of sailing vessels, today they use water ballast
http://images.google.com.au/images?gbv=2&hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&sa=1&q=indian+red+sandstone+buildings&btnG=Search&aq=f&oq=&start=0
> The Egyptian stones are also larger and the setting is rough. But then, the
> colonists could have cut them to size.
the pic looks like the red stone was was second hand when this
building in Egypt was constructed , some stone [ different colour
deliberatly ] has recently been replaced during restoration work
My ballast' theory " may easily include stone from several thousand
years into antiquity from all along the ancient trading ' TIN " routes
and metallurgists , like from every ancient culture mixed and re mixed
many times as ballast stone before ending up left " stranded " at the
FAR end of the TIN trade routes in South Australia
With no other traders calling in to remove it
, but leaving LOADED with TIN , over several thousand years , a way
of measuring the volume of goods EXPORTED from the South Australian
MASSIVE mine sites
> Cheers,
> Arindam Banrjee.
Hi Arindam
Red pink sandstone id fairly common and is used where ever it is
"easily had " as building stone
Some was very popular at certain times in certain places , red and
pink had a royal ' FAD " at times
ie Egypt and India , at some locations , in some buildings , in
ancient times
As I pointed out that , in very early Mount Barker, the was a very
short time when it was used almost exclusively then stopped
completely, changing into a more local stone of uncut then slowly
better and better material was widely employed , as seen in many new
towns
BUT the short red pink sandstone ear in Mount Baker is in need of an
EXPLANATION , I know the local history VERY VERY well , my family has
lived here before there was a single tent erected
as can be seen this stone was actually man cut dressed stone
but was also second hand in about 1844 when the first building was
built , when I know they would NOT cart stone any further than
required , leaving the question , how did it get here and WHEN and
from where
i have spent a very long time tracking this stone and showed you one
sample site as seen in your pics , by way of a "convenient example"
easily seen from the street , there IS lots more , and some buildings
from a few decades LATER are of nil value, as they DID quarry cut
and dress then cart stone from far away after a few decades , but
they DID NOT cart stuff any further than necessary , they used the
AVAILABLE stuff before carting stuff in , they FOUND the early stone
on or near the the site
I know they can trace building stone in Egypt houses today back
through several ancient constructions , each recycled after thousands
of years as temples or official building, often entire CITIES were
relocated
Ofter the lesser grades moving slowly off the Temples constructions
then into back rooms, and then lesser official constructions and
then into the workers buildings
A very similar thing happens all around the world through ancient
history , and STILL does
#
Tanis, Egypt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanis,_Egypt
Many of the stones used to build the various temples at Tanis came
from the old Ramesside town of Qantir (ancient Pi-Ramesses/Per-
Ramesses),
The refugees founded the nearby city of Tennis.
[edit] Ruins
There are ruins of a number of temples, including the chief temple
dedicated to Amun, and a very important royal necropolis of the Third
Intermediate Period (which contains the only known intact royal
Pharaonic burials – the tomb of Tutankhamun having been entered in
antiquity). Many of the stones used to build the various temples at
Tanis came from the old Ramesside town of Qantir (ancient Pi-Ramesses/
Per-Ramesses), which caused many former generations of Egyptologists
to believe that Tanis was, in fact, Per-Ramesses. However the burials
of three dynasty 21 and dynasty 22 pharaohs-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Psusennes_I_mask_by_Rafa%C3%A8le.jpg
.
In 2009 the Egyptian Culture Ministry reported archaeologists had
discovered the site of a sacred lake in a temple to the goddess Mut at
the San al-Hagar archaeological site in ancient Tanis.
, built out of limestone blocks, had been 15 meters long and 12 meters
wide. It was discovered 12 meters below ground in good condition.
...
History - Ruins - In popular culture - References
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanis,_Egypt - Cached - Similar
#
Egypt: Qantir, Ancient Pi-Ramesse
The modern village of Qantir (Khatana-Qantir) marks what was probably
the ancient site of Ramesses II's great capital, Pi-Ramesse or Per-
Ramesses
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Egypt_terrain_map_Cairo_Karnak.jpg
>
> "kangarooistan" <kangarooist...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:f84a4c47-ccce-494d...@k6g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
>
> Hi Arindam , did you see the PIC from Hatsheput temple using pink /
> red sandstone mate , check out the link at the bottom and DUNNS fl
> buiour
> mill in Mt Barker South Australia mate built c 1844 one of the very
> early
> buildings
>
>
>
.
.
> > Malcolm’s studies place the building as one of the oldest in Mount
> > Barker, created around 1850-60. There are quite a few such buildings
> > in Mount Barker. Where did they get these reasonably well-cut
> > stones?
>
> They did not have any stones like this sort from any quarry
nearby.
MORE BACKGROUND INFO ,
for those interested , the wikilink is a good start
Old Red Sandstone
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Age Late Silurian to earliest Carboniferous
Primary sandstone
The Old Red Sandstone is a rock formation of considerable importance
to early paleontology. For convenience the short version of the term,
'ORS' is often used in literature on the subject.
Hutton's angular unconformity at Siccar Point where 345 million year
old
Devonian Old Red Sandstone overlies 425 million year old Silurian
greywacke.[2]
Contents
[hide]
* 1 Sedimentology
* 2 History of study
* 3 Common Building Stone
* 4 Notable buildings constructed of Old Red Sandstone
* 5 See also
* 6 References
* 7 External links
[edit] Sedimentology
Bedding plane of Old Red Sandstone with quartz and chert pebbles;
central England;
(scale bar is 10 mm.)
The Old Red Sandstone describes a suite of sandstone rocks deposited
in a variety of environments during the Devonian period but extending
back into the late Silurian period and forward into the earliest part
of the Carboniferous period. The body of rock, or facies, is dominated
by alluvial sediments and conglomerates at its base, and progresses to
a combination of dunes, lakes and river sediments.
The familiar red colour of these rocks arises from the presence of
iron oxide but not all the Old Red Sandstone is red or sandstone — the
sequence also includes conglomerates, mudstones, siltstones and thin
limestones and colours can range from grey and green through red to
purple.
These deposits are closely associated with the erosion of the
Caledonian Mountain chain which was thrown up by the collision of the
former continents of East Avalonia, Baltica and Laurentia to form the
Old Red Sandstone Continent- an event known as the Caledonian Orogeny.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Red_Sandstone
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Red_Sandstone
The New Red Sandstone is a geological term for the beds of red
sandstone and associated rocks laid down throughout the Permian (280
million years ago) to the beginning of the Triassic (240 million years
ago) that underlie the Jurassic Lias; the term distinguishes it from
the Devonian Old Red Sandstone.
Its upper layers consist of mudstones, but most of the formation
consists of reddish sandstones, interbedded with rare evaporite
minerals such as halite and gypsum; these indicate a palaeo-
environment of deposition being hot and arid e.g. a desert.
kangarooistan
> <hari.ku...@indero.com> wrote in message
the "Vikings" DID arrive in south Australia , VIA the UK , in 1836
kangarooistan
> "in Mount Barker. Where did they get these reasonably well-cut
> stones?"
>
> Consult any ausie geologist who can likely answer your question. There
> are now tests to answer your question as to the origin of any stone
> examples.
The red sand stone is about 400million years old
The stuff is everywhere , except near mount barker
In 1844 red sand stone blocks were used to build several buildings in
Mount barker south australia
Arindam agrees they are second hand man cut blocks, we KNOW what they
are and where they are found
WHO took them to Mount Barker when and WHY
The continents have moved VAST amounts in the last 400 million years
IDENTICAL rocks can EASILY be found on Antarctic australia India AND
the middle east , IDENTICAL as they were all formed 400 million years
ago when they were together BEFORE Pangaea broke up
research from early south Australian history shows no way to account
for anybody carting ballast stone to Mount Barker , Stone went the
OTHER WAY , to the then growing city of ADELAIDE , carriers had high
demand for all manner of stuff flowing INTO the mount Barker
district , and stone building materials FLOWING backloaded , as
building material for the new CITY of Adelaide ,
much ballast was used at the new PORT Adelaide, and was much prized
and used there , carting it about 50 km to Mount Barker PAST hundreds
of building sites simply would not happen
Some may claim the opportunity existed for hundreds of ton of second
hand red sandstone to have come on the first few ships but they were
STUFFED with higher value goods more profitable and in demand ,
Building stone was used by anybody who could find some lying about
until the 1860s and a1870s , by the 1880s the colony was able to
produce good quality cut stone and import of almost anything was
possible
Im interested in the few very early red sandstone buildings built pre
1880 ONLY , until then it was used as found or extracted from the
neatest open quarries , labour was desperately short , and cartage of
building stone was not easy over bush tracks in the first few decades
>
> We don't have to suggest imaginative scenarios when the answer is so
> easily to hand.
>
.
> Do you think vikings took stones to egypt?
Do you have a BRAIN mate ??
l kanga dont play games with children or fools mate
ill forgive you this time , but ignore such nonsense in future
kanga
=====
koolfireiv
> Huh, are you talking about me, mate? Anything I can do for you?
> Cheers,
> Arindam Banerjee
>
>
> news:1b68a4fe-3cb7-441a...@o16g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
> On Feb 9, 5:45 pm, kangarooistan <kangarooist...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Poor guy,he did not know what he is in for mate...my feeling is he
> went into hiding.
Nothing at all mate,i am just pulling the rug under Malcolm feet.....I
got my dose of mt barker,abyssinians,phoenicians,cut Jaipur
stones,Egyptians, boy king tut and geological data,and camel beauty
contests ugh,i was hoping he may have some thing else.
kangarooistan
.
> contests ugh,i was hoping he may have some thing else.
busy for HOURS , lots of pretty rock pics too
and who knows mate , someday the penny may drop and even YOU could be
educated
If you be REALLY good kanga will post some more nice camel pictures
for you soon
kanga
======
On Feb 10, 7:27 am, "Arindam Banerjee" <adda1...@bigpond.com> wrote:
> Hello Malcolm,
> Saw the photo in the link you gave. Not sure it looked too pink on my
> computer, though. I don't think the Egyptian stones match with what you got
> there. It looked more like Indian stuff which was rejected for use, that
http://adda-enterprises.com/peramangk/goldmine.ht
> you showed me - if the stones in Mount Barker are not local, as you hold.
Hi Arindam , slowly the site gives up its secrets mate , more every
day mate ,
One day when you get a WEEK free , may like to read some of my notes
on the topic , its a VERY VERY heavy read mate , and no reply is
expected , it take years to " digest " some of this stuff mate , there
is NO HURRY , the mine site aint going away , I enjoy the research and
understand few others will share my interest until its polished up
into a DOCO or glossy mag article in due time
original post preserved at, and easier reading at this site ,
ONLY when you get time mate , it is HEAVY reading , unsuitable as
light entertainment
at: http://docs.google.com/View?id=dcgk9t7p_272cdw9cffn
Any civilization capable of building the Pyramids and the ancient
boats seen intact within the burial chambers , had EVERYTHING they
needed to sail the GLOBE with ease ,
only a complete fool would doubt they DID seek out their needs of
gold TIN copper and aromatic resins where ever they wanted , they had
the means the opportunity AND the motives , sadly the entire
civilizations vanished , probably badly led and pointless wars , and
much evidence and knowledge was lost , but much can be still found by
those who seek it
Clearly the fabled "Land Of Punt" , is a collection of countries lying
to the EAST of Egypt
not a single country , Few countries lasted the "entire period" of
Ancient Egypt , and none are capable of supplying everything they
often lump together when seeking the fabled land of Punt , even the
reports show different cargo was onboard different fleets , all
called PUNT expeditions in some books , but clearly several different
countries EAST of Egypt , are being lumped together by many
researchers and has left the location a Mystery to this day
Land of Punt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Land of Punt, also called Pwenet, or Pwene by the ancient
Egyptians, was a trading partner known for producing and exporting
gold, aromatic resins ,
A report of that 5 ship voyage survives on reliefs in Hatshepsut's
mortuary temple at Deir el-Bahri.[8]
.
This well illustrated with pics , expedition of Hatshepsut occurred
in Year 9 of the female pharaoh's reign with the blessing of the god
Amun:probably resulting in the "Turin Papyrys gold mine map" ,
“ Said by Amen, the Lord of the Thrones of the Two Land: 'Come, come
in peace my daughter, the graceful, who art in my heart, King Maatkare
[ie. Hatshepsut]...I will give thee Punt, the whole of it...I will
lead your soldiers by land and by water, on mysterious shores, which
join the harbours of incense...They will take incense as much as they
like. They will load their ships to the satisfaction of their hearts
with trees of green [ie. fresh] incense, and all the good things of
the land.'[12].
.
This well illustrated expedition of Hatshepsut occurred in Year 9 of
the female pharaoh's reign with the blessing of the god Amun:
the Punt house and plants , are Exactly as used by Southern
australian aboriginals AND their "grass Trees" / yacca Trees ,
EXACTLY as shown pruduce RESIN in VAST amounts even today
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Punthouse02.jpg
File:Xanthorrhoea quadrangulata HRM1.jpg
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Xanthorrhoea_quadrangulata_HRM1.jpg
http://www.slv.vic.gov.au/pictoria/a/0/9/doc/a09287.shtml
http://www.slv.vic.gov.au/pictoria/a/0/9/doc/a09287.shtml
Group of aborigines sitting outside humpy [picture]
Date(s) of creation: [ca. 1914-ca. 1941]
photograph : gelatin silver ; 8.8 x 13.8 cm. approx.
Reproduction rights owned by the State Library of Victoria
This Expedition to ' PUNT " seems very to be different to many
others that include ivory and apes and Giraffes , clearly in Africa ,
and if the fabled land was close, the Egyptians and many others would
simply invade and "RULE" the fabled land , clearly the fabled land lay
well hidden and REMAINS a mystery to this very DAY after millions of
man years have been spent looking for it , UNTIL NOW IMHO its location
is still HOTLYdisputed
Clearly this fabled " Land of Punt " vanished mysteriously , about
the time of the Mysterious Bronze Age Collapse,
Africa did not vanish, nor did all the OTHER suggested locations ,
NONE but the South Australian option actually FITS the exact
description in every way , and as NOBODY ever bothered to LOOK , they
failed to even notice the MOUNTAINS of evidences right under their
noses , EXPERTS told them nobody but primitive blacks were EVER here
befor 1836 , anything they find is assumed of recent post 1836
origin , ancient artifacts and treasures are sent to the dump as
recent modern discarded rubbish if it is not of primitive Aboriginal
style it MUST be from after 1836
.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bronze_Age_collapse
The loss of the South Australian VAST TIN mines may have caused the
sudden collapse
probably by destroying the owners and or his fleets perhaps ?,
matching the ending of mining in the South Australian sites exactly ,
about the same time "midden deposition rates" , drop rapidly after
several thousand years of high use , they fall back to pre Bronze age
levels and REMAIN there , until 1836 white settlers arrived
.
The Bronze Age collapse is the name given by those historians who see
the transition in the Near East and Eastern Mediterranean from the
Late Bronze Age to the Early Iron Age, as violent, sudden and
culturally disruptive. The palace economies of the Aegean and Anatolia
which characterised the Late Bronze Age were replaced, after a hiatus,
by the isolated village cultures of the Ancient Dark Age.
Between 1206 and 1150 BCE, same date as the turin papyrus gold mine ,
the cultural collapse of the Mycenaean kingdoms, the Hittite Empire in
Anatolia and Syria,[1] and the Egyptian Empire in Syria and Canaan,[2]
interrupted trade routes and extinguished literacy.
.
The Land of Punt, also called Pwenet, or Pwene[1] by the ancient
Egyptians, was a trading partner known for producing and exporting
gold, aromatic resins,others carried African blackwood, ebony,
ivory, slaves and wild animals.[2] Information about Punt has been
found in ancient Egyptian records of trade missions to this region.
At times it is synonymous with Ta netjer, the "land of the god".[3]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_of_Punt#Ta_netjer
The ancient Egyptians also called Punt Ta netjer, meaning "God's
Land". This did not mean they considered Punt a "Holy Land"; rather,
it meant the regions of the Sun God, i.e., regions located in the
direction of the sunrise.[18]
These eastern regions were blessed with precious products, such as
incense, used in temples.
The term was used not only about Punt, located southeast of Egypt, but
also about regions of Asia east and northeast of Egypt, such as
Lebanon
The exact location of Punt remains a mystery as NO COUNTRY can supply
all the items supposedly found there ,
mistranslations being CLEAR to those who separate the reports.
several different countries were sending forward trade goods
The mainstream view is that Punt was located to the south-east of
Egypt,
.
The name "Puntland" is derived from the Land of Punt mentioned by
ancient Egyptian sources. The exact location of the Land of Punt is
still a mystery and is the subject of academic debate and controversy.
Some studies suggest that the land of Punt was located in Somalia,[6]
[7] whereas others propose that it was located elsewhere.[8]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puntland
.
there is NIL doubt the "Turin Papyrus Gold Mine" is INDEED located in
South Australia as examination of the site can confirm , and
following the roads shown on the map , yields FAR more evidence than
shown on the TINY ancient "Turin Papyrus Gold Mine" map , the site
is VAST beyond imagination mate , VAST even by todays mining
practice
Bir Umm Fawakhir: In Ancient Egyptian Mining history , simply FAILS
miserably when compared to the South Australian site
it is easy to identify which of the two are the REAL mine described
in the "Turin papyrus"
, especially if you follow the roads marked on the maps to see where
they lead
http://www.google.com.au/search?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&channel=s&hl=en&source=hp&q=turin+papyrus+gold+mine&meta=&btnG=Google+Search
We need to be mindful of several thousand years difference between
many red sandstone buildings presently seen in India , and those of
1200 BC when the Turin Papyrus gold mine site was in use
The ballast stone [ red sandstone blocks from ancient
demolitions ]was delivered to the ancient South Australian "TIN
loading docks" , located on the present shores Lake Alexandrina , as
indicated on the Turin papyrus map by following " the road to the sea
" as directed in the original map
http://maps.google.com.au/maps/place?gbv=2&hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&ndsp=20&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=lake+alexandrina+south+australia&fb=1&gl=au&ftid=0x6ab68cd12f3808e3:0xf12e050bcb5efb74&ei=ph1yS6X-KoqssgPA7pSvCA&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CAwQ8gEwAA
==================================================================================
Fragment A shows five cultural features associated with the gold-
mining settlement, including: four houses, a temple dedicated to the
God Amun (the large white area subdivided by walls), a monument stone
honoring king Sety I (1290-1279 BC of the New Kingdom’s 19th Dynasty),
a water reservoir, and, at the confluence of wadis Hammamat and el-
Sid, a water well with an encircling wall that casts a shadow on its
right side. The brown patch of ground opposite the settlement may
represent an area where either mine tailings were dumped or farming
was practiced.
http://www.eeescience.utoledo.edu/Faculty/Harrell/Egypt/Turin%20Papyrus/Harrell_Papyrus_Map_table-1.htm
Table 1: Translations of the hieratic texts on the map side of the
Turin
papyrus (adapted from Harrell and Brown 1992: Table 1)
______________________________________________________________
Text
Number1 Translation
1 the road that leads to the sea
2 another road that leads to the sea
it becomes clear they had an accurate map , BUT the Egyptians did not
seem know how to find the mine site , granted there was a major
upheaval between the existing Priesthood and the RADICAL new phaeroe
Tutankhamun
The reasons become clear once you get a bit deeper into the
research , VAST amounts of evidences are now available to those
interested in finding the fables " Land of Punt '
the only thing left to research is WHY it took experts so LONG to
accept the undeniable reality , the Turin papyrus Gold mine , and
massive TIN mines as well as copper and resins and Murex snails all
were exported fromsouthAustralia for several thousand years , probably
ending up in Egypt , probably being traded by several ancient trading
nations over the several thousand years of the Bronze Age
The history of boats parallels the human adventure. The first known
boats date back to the Neolithic Period, about 10,000 years ago. These
early vessels had limited function: they could move on water, but that
was it. They were used mainly for hunting and fishing. The oldest
dugout canoes found by archaeologists were often cut from coniferous
tree logs, using simple stone tools.
By around 3000 BC, Ancient Egyptians already knew how to assemble
planks of wood into a ship hull.[6]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Barque_Solaire.JPG
the ORIGINAL ship is on display in Egypt
.
The Khufu ship, at 43.6 m, is similar in size to the Praise of the Two
Lands.
.
"Praise of the Two Lands", appearing in an inscription (c. 2613 BCE)
of boat building projects of Egyptian pharaoh Sneferu, is the first
reference to a ship bearing a name.[1]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Praise_of_the_Two_Lands_%28ship%29
The large Egyptian vessel, built by the pharaoh Sneferu, was about 100
cubits (just over 50 m) long and made of cedar wood.[2]
.
HMS Endeavour, also known as HM Bark Endeavour, was only 32 meters
long a Royal Navy research vessel commanded by Lieutenant James Cook
on first voyage of discovery, to Australia and New Zealand 1769 /1771.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Endeavour
The Santa María de la Inmaculada Concepción, The Imaculate Conception
of Mary, was the largest of the three ships used by Christopher
Columbus in his first voyage across the Atlantic Ocean in 1492.
.
The Santa María was a small "nao", about 70 feet long[1][citation
needed], used as the flagship for the expedition. She carried 40 men.
The Santa María was constructed from pine and oak trees
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Mar%C3%ADa_%28ship%29
Victoria (or Nao Victoria, as well as Vittoria) was a Spanish carrack
like the santa maria in design and the first ship to successfully
circumnavigate the world.
The Victoria was part of a Spanish expedition under the Portuguese
commander, Ferdinand Magellan
.
They used woven straps to lash the planks together,[6] and reeds or
grass stuffed between the planks helped to seal the seams.[6][7]
The Greek historian and geographer Agatharchides had documented ship-
faring among the early Egyptians: "During the prosperous period of the
Old Kingdom, between the 30th and 25th centuries B. C., the river-
routes were kept in order, and Egyptian ships sailed the Red Sea as
far as the myrrh-country. [ gum tree resin/ insense ]"[8]
Sneferu's ancient cedar wood ship Praise of the Two Lands is the first
reference recorded (2613 BCE) to a ship being referred to by name.[9]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Praise_of_the_Two_Lands_%28ship%29
================================================================================
.
granted India HAS the raw material red sandstone , AND the "motives
opportunity and ability " for trade with South australia mine sites ,
FAR FAR FAR MORE so than anybody else , the IVC must have been
involved for most of the time as they were in the middle of ancient
international trade routes
http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~vaucher/Genealogy/Documents/Asia/images/spice_route.gif
ballast moved as a secondary factor it needs to be unloaded when a
big load is taken on board , Ballast was dumped or off loaded to
regain the ships stability and where it sat in the water was very
important to ocean vessels
Auteur(s) / Author(s)
BOYCE Joseph I. ; REINHARDT Eduard G. ; GOODMAN Beverly N. ;
http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=21591527
Ballast stone deposits are a common feature of sediments in ancient
harbour basins but are often overlooked as a potential source of
archaeological information. a thick. laterally extensive ballast
layer in the area seaward of the 1 st c. BC Roman harbour.
The ballast deposits were identified by low-relief mounds on the
seabed with elevated magnetic intensities.
Jet probing and excavation of magnetic anomalies at several locations
revealed a 20-60 cm thick rubble layer containing large quantities of
Late Roman and Byzantine pottery, local sedimentary boulders (kurkar
sandstone, limestone cobbles) and foreign igneous and metamorphic
boulders (granite, schist, volcanics; ca. 50%). The foreign boulders
and pottery identify the rubble layer as ballast and ships refuse
jettisoned by merchant ships outside the harbour , dating boulders is
more difficult
.
, it was needed to load OR off load ballast at destinations to
adjust the position of the ship in the water, raw ores or Metals
moving in and metal goods traded OUT of IVC , would transfer ballast
from the end [ egypt ? ] user , to the source of the RAW material
[ South Australia ] , being loaded and off loaded many times from
stockpiles at the wharfs as goods were added or unloaded along the
way , hence EGYPT as a sourse may be probable , and South Australia
the final "off loading point" for ballast to build up as all trade
went one way , the local Aboriginal peoples had little need or " money
" to buy imported goods , and may have been kept poor and compliant
as the best option for visiting traders
we KNOW cloves , grown just north of Australia in the " Spice Islands
" , HAVE been found in ancient Syria in 1,700 BC , the time of Turin
Papyrus Gold mines and probably much earlier too in Egypt
Until modern times, cloves grew only on a few islands in the Maluku
Islands (historically called the Spice Islands), including Bacan,
Makian, Moti, Ternate, and Tidore.[9] a day or two sailing time from
some " Spice islands" , to Australia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clove#History
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Karta_ID_Maluku_isl.PNG
http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~vaucher/Genealogy/Documents/Asia/images/spice_route.gif
Nevertheless, the spices found their way west to the Middle East and
Europe well before the first century AD. Archeologists found cloves
within a ceramic vessel in Syria along with evidence dating the find
to within a few years of 1721 BC.[9]
Cloves, along with nutmeg and pepper, were highly prized in Roman
times, and Pliny the Elder once famously complained that "there is no
year in which India does not drain the Roman Empire of fifty million
sesterces." Cloves were traded by Arabs during the Middle Ages in the
profitable Indian Ocean trade
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clove#History
.
INDIA would not want nor value third grade second hand Egyptian
building stone , it was very wealthy AND had its own red sandstone ,
Egypt had NOTHING India needed hence BALLAST stone was needed on the
return trading voyages recorded between IVC and the ancient river
valleys in Egypt and Mesopotamia, flat stack-able blocks are ideal to
use at the bottom of sailing vessels, today they use water ballast
http://images.google.com.au/images?gbv=2&hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&sa=1&q=indian+red+sandstone+buildings&btnG=Search&aq=f&oq=&start=0
> The Egyptian stones are also larger and the setting is rough. But then, the
> colonists could have cut them to size.
the pic looks like the red stone was second hand when this building
in Egypt was constructed , some stone [ different colour
deliberatly ] has recently been replaced during restoration work , in
above link
My ballast' theory " may easily include stone Ballast from several
thousand years in antiquity , from all along the ancient Bronze Age
trading ' TIN " routes and metallurgists , like from every ancient
culture mixed and re mixed many times as ballast stone on the wharves
constantly being loaded and reloaded and mixed , before ending up
left " stranded " at the FAR end of the "TIN trade routes" in South
Australia
With no other traders calling in to remove it, its likely it built up
over several thousands of years by accident
, but hips leaving LOADED with TIN , over several thousand years , a
way of measuring the volume of goods EXPORTED from the South
Australian MASSIVE mine sites , by the volume of Ballast left behind
> Cheers,
> Arindam Banrjee.
Hi Arindam , another " Background " update for when you [ and others
in due time ] get some free time mate
Old Red pink sandstone , ORS , is fairly common and is used where
ever it is "easily had " as building stone
Some was very popular at certain times in certain places , red and
pink had a royal ' FAD " at times , in Egypt it was used on ROYAL
palaces , and EVEN on the Turin Papyrus its the color used for the
royal ' Temple "
ie Egypt and India , at some locations , in some buildings , in
ancient times seem to have even reserved this color for royalty , and
the choice of stone seems to be closely related to the choices of
Royalty in the area at the time
Tyrian purple (Greek, πορφύρα, porphyra, Latin: purpura), also known
as royal purple, imperial purple or imperial dye, is a purple-red dye
first produced by the ancient Phoenicians.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyrian_purple
.
Byzantine Emperor Justinian clad in Tyrian purple, 6th-century mosaic
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Justinian.jpg
.
Modern research shows, as discussed above, that various formulations
of Tyrian purple existed on a continuous spectrum within approximately
the following range of colours:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyrian_purple#Shades_of_Tyrian_purple_colour_comparison_chart.
.
As I pointed out that , in very early Mount Barker, the was a very
short time when it was used almost exclusively then stopped
completely, changing into a more local stone of uncut then slowly
better and better material was widely employed , as seen in many new
towns
BUT the short red pink sandstone ear in Mount Baker is in need of an
EXPLANATION , I know the local history VERY VERY well , my family has
lived here before there was a single tent erected
as can be seen this stone was actually mixed age second hand manmade
and or cut "dressed' building stone
but was also second hand in about 1844 , when the first building was
built in mount Barker south Australia , , when I know they would NOT
cart stone any further than required , leaving the question , how did
it get here and WHEN and from where and by WHOM
I have spent a very long time tracking this strange type of stone ,
and showed you one sample site , as seen in your pics , by way of a
"convenient example" easily seen from the street , Dunns flour mill is
even older and better IMHO
http://adda-enterprises.com/peramangk/goldmine.ht
there IS lots more , and some buildings from a few decades LATER are
of nil value, as they DID quarry cut and dress then cart stone from
far away after a few decades , but they DID NOT cart stuff any
further than necessary , they used the AVAILABLE stuff before carting
stuff in , they FOUND the early stone on or near the building sites ,
especially in most early buildings far from the then port at Port
Adelaide
I know they can trace building stone in Egypt houses today back
through several ancient constructions , each recycled after thousands
of years as temples or official building, often entire CITIES were
relocated/ recycled
Ofter the lesser grades stone moving slowly off the Temples
constructions , then into back rooms and plastered walls , and then
lesser officials buildings construction , and then into the workers
buildings or as ship Ballast or road rubble
> Hi Arindam , did you see the PIC from Hatsheput temple using pink /
> red sandstone mate , check out the link at the bottom and DUNNS
> flour mill in Mt Barker South Australia mate built c 1844 one of the very
> early buildings
http://adda-enterprises.com/peramangk/goldmine.ht
>
>
>
.
.
> > Malcolm’s studies place the building as one of the oldest in Mount
> > Barker, created around 1850-60. There are quite a few such buildings
> > in Mount Barker. Where did they get these reasonably well-cut
> > stones?
>
> They did not have any stones like this sort from any quarry
nearby.
http://adda-enterprises.com/peramangk/goldmine.ht
MORE BACKGROUND INFO ,
for those interested in the topic , the wikilink is a good start
.
original post preserved at, and easier reading at this site
at: http://docs.google.com/View?id=dcgk9t7p_272cdw9cffn