immigrating to new zealand
Joanne
(Americans in particular)? Thanks for any responses!
philip
> How do New Zealanders feel about people immigrating to their country
> (Americans in particular)? Thanks for any responses!
We are all immigrants or the descendants of immigrants. Realistically,
some of our people are less happy about some of the more recent
immigrants. There has been some hostility expressed about the numbers of
Chinese people. But New Zealanders are learning to come to terms with it.
Anyone who arrives hoping to survive on social benefits (and there
aren't all that many of them) is unlikely to be welcome. Some New
Zealanders will not welcome people who loudly assert their support for
the present US administration and all its policies.
Mostly New Zealanders judge people on how they behave and how they
settle in to the community.
Many of us, myself included, have some American ancestry. Many of us
have family there, or go there for holidays.
Many New Zealanders believe that overall we are better off than our
American cousins, partly because we live in New Zealand and they don't,
and partly because we prefer aspects of the New Zealand way of life to
what we, sometimes mistakenly, perceive as the American way of life. But
it's also true that for some New Zealanders emigration to the US is a
desirable objective.
If a person wants to come to New Zealand to show us how backward,
ignorant and miserable we all are they will likely get a poor welcome.
If they would like to come to New Zealand and join in, they'll feel very
much at home.
They may find it hard to come to terms with the little differences
between our societies, but that's another thread of discussion. Bear in
mind that an American immigrating is coming from the world's largest
military power to a country that recently sold the strike wing of its
air force because the government could not see any reason to keep it.
A country with a widely supported anti-nuclear policy, with a wholly
different colonial experience from the US.
A country where they drive, often very badly, on the other side of the
road in cars imported second hand from Japan. A country where cookies
are biscuits, where the 7/11 is a dairy, where you can drink in a bar
when you are 18, where most people still subscribe to the idea that any
newcomer deserves a fair go.
A country where wages are from a half to a third of their US equivalents
in many disciplines, where broadband Internet access outside a few areas
around the bigger cities is at Third World levels of service with
monthly data caps of 500 MB to 1 GB, and there are extra costs for
accessing Internet content from outside the New Zealand.
Like most things in New Zealand, the answer to your question isn't
always obvious.
But a person wanting to immigrate would do well to pay several visits,
stay in the area they're interested in, and talk to people.
Incidentally, it rains a lot. Auckland has twice the annual rainfall of
London or San Francisco - about the same as New York. How else do you
think the country gets to be so green?
Philip
geopelia
"philip" <philip_...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:072f5fd540ff6b0e...@news.teranews.com...
Auckland wouldn't have any more rainy days than London, probably less, but
London usually drizzles and Auckland buckets down. The humidity can be very
high at times.
It doesn't snow in Auckland, but we get a lot of gales. Plenty of snow for
skiing in our mountains though.
Food is great here, fresh and comparatively cheap, if you cook it yourself.
Vegetables are easy to grow. Restaurants are expensive and use weird
ingredients though. We make good wine here. Yes, we do have fast food
places.
We don't need much heating in the winter, in Auckland.
New Zealand is a small country in the middle of the sea, hence the climate.
Plenty of good beaches, and surf. If you like yachting, you'll love it.
Wages may seem low, but so is the cost of living. House prices are high
though, so are rents.
We protest strongly against American ships that might be nuclear, but the
sailors themselves are welcome and have a great time, if you know any just
ask them.
And from what I see browsing around on the Internet, New Zealand is far more
broad-minded than many American states.
If you want to settle permanently here, check with our immigration first and
see if you are eligible, and what you need to do. There is a points system.
You can't just arrive and hope to stay.
You must get medical insurance while visiting, our hospitals are free only
for permanent residents. Others must pay.
Geopelia
A. J. Tanner
A Yank living in Christchurch
"philip" <philip_...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:072f5fd540ff6b0e...@news.teranews.com...
PaulAbeles
"Joanne" <joanne...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:9c51b873.0403...@posting.google.com...
> How do New Zealanders feel about people immigrating to their country
> (Americans in particular)? Thanks for any responses!
New Zealand needs immigrants to make up for all the Kiwis emigrating to
Australia.
Mike Darrett
That reminds me. Is mold a problem in homes in New Zealand? I ask
only because I recall reading somewhere that Texas (in the US) has the
most expensive home insurance costs, because of many claims for home
mold damage (from the humidity, I assume).
I'm very impressed by the amount of hydropower available in New
Zealand.
(see http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/print/nz.html ).
Sounds like that hydropower could be put to good use: like making
computer chips or silicon solar panels, for instance.
Is most of the hydropower from South Island, or North Island?
Regards,
Mike Darrett
http://www.darrettenterprises.com
geopelia
"PaulAbeles" <sir...@buckhouse.windsor.uk> wrote in message
news:yRi6c.109815$Wa.1...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
(Famous saying)
Ashley
"Mike Darrett" <mike-...@darrettenterprises.com> wrote in message
news:d945119c.0403...@posting.google.com...
> That reminds me. Is mold a problem in homes in New Zealand? I ask
> only because I recall reading somewhere that Texas (in the US) has the
> most expensive home insurance costs, because of many claims for home
> mold damage (from the humidity, I assume).
>
Funny you should ask that. Try reading everything here, then you'll know
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/storydisplay.cfm?reportID=562587
Main problem is in Auckland and Wellington
>
> Is most of the hydropower from South Island, or North Island?
The South Island.
And a little lesson in island naming in New Zealand. The North Island and
the South Island both take the definite article. Stewart Island doesn't. The
Chatham Islands do or don't, depending on your mood :-)
geopelia
"Ashley" <ashle...@XXXXXxtra.co.nz> wrote in message
news:%pv6c.9616$rw6.1...@news.xtra.co.nz...
>
> "Mike Darrett" <mike-...@darrettenterprises.com> wrote in message
> news:d945119c.0403...@posting.google.com...
>
> > That reminds me. Is mold a problem in homes in New Zealand? I ask
> > only because I recall reading somewhere that Texas (in the US) has the
> > most expensive home insurance costs, because of many claims for home
> > mold damage (from the humidity, I assume).
> >
>
> Funny you should ask that. Try reading everything here, then you'll know
>
> http://www.nzherald.co.nz/storydisplay.cfm?reportID=562587
>
> Main problem is in Auckland and Wellington
In Auckland, it is a good idea to have a dehumidifier or heat pump
installed.
Mike Darrett
Is there a bridge from Wellington to The South Island? If not, how do
people usually get to Christchurch? Is there a ferry service, or must
one take a flight...?
Where exactly are the hydropower plants located?
Thanks
Mike
geopelia
If you have plenty of spare days, get the ferry to Picton and drive down to
Christchurch, via Kaikoura. Stop there for a Whale or Seabird tour. You'll
love it.
You can take your own car on the ferry, or hire one in the South Island.
You will need to book most things in advance.
Simon Pleasants
> How do New Zealanders feel about people immigrating to their country
> (Americans in particular)? Thanks for any responses!
So long as you are not ethnically East Asian, and so long as you have the
skills that'll qualify you gain pernant residence, you should be okay.
geopelia
"Simon Pleasants" <sim...@hatespam.net.zn> wrote in message
news:WFU6c.2496$u%1.36...@news02.tsnz.net...
come. There are doctors and other professional people who can't get work and
end up driving taxis etc. Apparently they were told that their
qualifications would be accepted, but once here they find they must retrain.
You speak English, so that is not a problem.
ppp
Simon Pleasants <sim...@hatespam.net.zn> wrote in message
news:WFU6c.2496$u%1.36...@news02.tsnz.net...
And if you are a slope, don't even think about moving to Wellington. You'll
never get a job there as they are all reserved for whites.
ppp
> > > (Americans in particular)? Thanks for any responses!
> >
> > So long as you are not ethnically East Asian, and so long as you have
the
> > skills that'll qualify you gain pernant residence, you should be okay.
> >
> You must be sure that your qualifications are accepted here, before you
> come. There are doctors and other professional people who can't get work
and
> end up driving taxis etc. Apparently they were told that their
> qualifications would be accepted, but once here they find they must
retrain.
> You speak English, so that is not a problem.
Doctors aren't going to let their pay and conditions be undermined by third
world dross. And they have the power and influence to make sure it doesn't
happen.
Jim Purdie
"ppp" <p...@ppp.com> wrote in message
news:zJ37c.2549$u%1.38...@news02.tsnz.net...
What is it that you are scared of, ppp? Aren't you good enough to compete?
Jim Purdie
Simon Pleasants
> > > How do New Zealanders feel about people immigrating to their country
> > > (Americans in particular)? Thanks for any responses!
> >
> > So long as you are not ethnically East Asian, and so long as you have
the
> > skills that'll qualify you gain pernant residence, you should be okay.
> >
> You must be sure that your qualifications are accepted here, before you
> come. There are doctors and other professional people who can't get work
and
> end up driving taxis etc.
Yes, there are those, but you'll be glad to hear that the bulk of them came
in to NZ under the previous National-NZ FIRST government. :-)
If you do a little reading up on NZ immigration policy under the current
governement, you'll find that things have improved.
Also, the phenomenon of doctors driving cabs is not only influenced by the
previous governemenrt's shoddy immigration policy, but also the
institutional racism of employers.
> Apparently they were told that their
> qualifications would be accepted, but once here they find they must
retrain.
Do you object to restrictive practoices by established NZ professionals?
Then I suggest you protest to those organisations.
> You speak English, so that is not a problem.
Even native English speakers often have more problems getting hired.
Aparrently, they don't have enough New Zealand experience. Haven't employers
heard of the fax machine, email and international STD phone calls?
Simon Pleasants
> Doctors aren't going to let their pay and conditions be undermined by
third
> world dross. And they have the power and influence to make sure it doesn't
> happen.
Would you care to expand upon your approval of monopolistic practices?
Geoff McCaughan
> How do New Zealanders feel about people immigrating to their country
> (Americans in particular)? Thanks for any responses!
It depends. If you want to leave the US because you think GWB is too
liberal, it's unlikely you'll fit in here.
--
Ultima Ratio Regnum
Wild Colonial Boy
wrote:
>How do New Zealanders feel about people immigrating to their country
>(Americans in particular)? Thanks for any responses!
That, completely depends on the immigrants and how willing they are to
conform to local ways, i.e. whether they respect Tikunga Maori etc
Nik
Kévin
I'm a french analyst programmer interested in living in NZ.
I've just received a WHS visa and i look for a new life in Auckland.
I speak a correct english (well, I think so !).
Is there anything useful i should know before coming ?
Kévin
EMB
Kévin <NIQU...@CAMARGUE.COM> expelled:
Do a google for "Rainbow Warrior" then reconsider your decision.
--
EMB
change two to number to reply
Gregory Procter
"Kévin" wrote:
Don't mention the "Rainbow Warrior" or Greenpeace ;-)
Greg.P.
Wild Colonial Boy
>Does it matter whether they respect that or not ?
Yes it does.
Nik
Kévin
"Gregory Procter" <pro...@ihug.co.nz> a écrit dans le message de
news:408867E4...@ihug.co.nz...
I promise ;-)
Thx for answers.
Kevin
Gregory Procter
"Kévin" wrote:
Seriously, we're a very easy going and forgiving people - so long as you
don't push the wrong buttons. Arrogance flies like the proverbial lead
balloon here.
Michael Brook
"Wild Colonial Boy" <nos...@iconz.co.nz> wrote in message
news:gsqg801f4cbvmunp6...@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 27 Mar 2004 09:53:36 +1200, "Col:" <C...@xtra.con> wrote:
>
> >On Sat, 27 Mar 2004 08:42:46 +1200, Wild Colonial Boy
> ><someth...@iconz.co.nz> wrote:
> >
> >>On 17 Mar 2004 09:00:50 -0800, joanne...@hotmail.com (Joanne)
> >>wrote:
> >>
> >>>How do New Zealanders feel about people immigrating to their country
> >>>(Americans in particular)? Thanks for any responses!
> >>
I've bee here with my family for 3 years now and I find that generally the
attitude towards the English or "Poms" as they incorrectly call us to be
pretty bad.
Does this attitude vary from region to region?
Wairarapa is bad for this.
Yorky
EMB
Michael Brook <mbr...@paradise.net.nz> expelled:
>
> I've bee here with my family for 3 years now and I find that
> generally the attitude towards the English or "Poms" as they
> incorrectly call us to be pretty bad.
> Does this attitude vary from region to region?
> Wairarapa is bad for this.
It probably varies more from Pom to Pom. If you arrive here and expect it
to be like home and keep bemoaning the fact that it isn't (or isn't what you
expected) then you'll probably cop a fair bit of attitude.
> Yorky
<BASELESS GENERALISATION>
That in itself might be something - the yorkie I used to work with spent his
entire life in "negative about NZ" mode - didn't win him any friends.
</BASELESS GENERALISATION>
Gregory Procter
Michael Brook wrote:
Move south.
>
> Wairarapa is bad for this.
That would be those damn Scandinavians! ;-)
>
> I can tell you that anyone who complains with comments like "we never did
> things this way back home in ..." are going to get badly treated/locals
> irritated. Otherwise, 99% of South Islanders are going to treat you just like
> anyone else.
Regards,
Greg.P.
Michael Brook
Yep thats the sort of answer I was expecting.
I never expect NZ to be like back home. NZ is my home and has been for 3
years.
I never complain to anyone about anything, nor does my family.
My family and I took a great deal of time and expense to get here and love
the Country.
I quit 2 jobs because of racist attitudes, and we aren't talking a bit of
good humoured banter.
One job in Wellington City and the other in Martinborough.
I think the attitude varies with region. Wairarapa is predominately low
income farm work. Maybe we are seen as a threat?
Move South? Thats an interesting point and we are looking at that
possibility so that our children will be nearer universities when the time
comes for them. I'd be interested to hear about Canterbury and Otago
regions.
A Pom is a Colonial prisoner, "Prisoner of His/Her Majesty. So that
includes the early Aussies.
I haven't been a convict, not yet anyway! ;o)
Mike
"EMB" <emb...@ihug.co.nz> wrote in message
news:c6s8d7$40g$1...@lust.ihug.co.nz...
Gregory Procter
Michael Brook wrote:
> Yep thats the sort of answer I was expecting.
>
> I never expect NZ to be like back home. NZ is my home and has been for 3
> years.
> I never complain to anyone about anything, nor does my family.
> My family and I took a great deal of time and expense to get here and love
> the Country.
> I quit 2 jobs because of racist attitudes, and we aren't talking a bit of
> good humoured banter.
> One job in Wellington City and the other in Martinborough.
>
> I think the attitude varies with region. Wairarapa is predominately low
> income farm work. Maybe we are seen as a threat?
>
> Move South? Thats an interesting point and we are looking at that
> possibility so that our children will be nearer universities when the time
> comes for them. I'd be interested to hear about Canterbury and Otago
> regions.
Christchurch would probably suit provided you're not overly sun tanned - Dunedin
is Robbie Burnes territory but largely they welcome anyone who doesn't mention
the rain or the wind.
>
>
> A Pom is a Colonial prisoner, "Prisoner of His/Her Majesty. So that
> includes the early Aussies.
> I haven't been a convict, not yet anyway! ;o)
Pom = Pomegranate, the fruit often provided to English/British sailors to avoid
scurvey in the 19th century. (similar derivation to "Limey" in the USa)
philip
> I've bee here with my family for 3 years now and I find that generally the
> attitude towards the English or "Poms" as they incorrectly call us to be
> pretty bad.
> Does this attitude vary from region to region?
> Wairarapa is bad for this.
Anyone from anywhere in the British Isles is called a 'Pom', many -
perhaps most - New Zealanders have Poms somewhere in their ancestry. The
term isn't incorrect usage in new Zealand. There are different theories
about where it comes from, though one suggesting it's because steerage
passengers were fed pomegranates to cut the risk of scurvy seems likely.
Most Kiwis show hostility to people who piss them off - either by
maintaining that the way things are done is inferior to the way things
were done 'back home', or talking excessively about 'back home'. It's
only forty years since Nationaol Radio used to have a programme called
'News from Home' - which was the BBC British news. Part at least of any
hostility is awareness of how new is the sense of national identity.
Some of it is generational attitude - my generation is smarter / better
adapted / more aware than my fathers' or grandfather's.
Most people who live in NZ and started out somewhere else came to NZ
because they were unhappy with some aspect of somewhere else. If their
roots are in the UK, and you are seen as a representative of the UK I
suppose they might transfer their dislike of that place to you.
Seems a bit unnecessary though - and bloody rude too.
What sort of 'bad attitude' are you talking about?
Philip
Brian Dooley
I've been here for 47 years (count them), and I've had about as
much hassle as a Londoner moving up North.
Perhaps Lancastrians are less touchy than Yorkies.
--
Brian Dooley
Wellington New Zealand
Michael Brook
I lived in London for 4 years, didn't have a problem.
Perhaps I have hit a nerve here, some of you seem a little touchy...
"Brian Dooley" <bri...@paradise.net.nz> wrote in message
news:gdv790pu08v2u9c5l...@4ax.com...
Michael Brook
someone tells you to "fuck off home, we don't want you here"
or calls you Gay, then thats my limit. Happily married man with 3 kids, IQ
of 130+ and as un-gay as possible!
As permanent residents we are here for life, who knows I may clock up more
than 47 years - that would make me 88.
Mike
"Brian Dooley" <bri...@paradise.net.nz> wrote in message
news:gdv790pu08v2u9c5l...@4ax.com...
>
EMB
Michael Brook <mbr...@paradise.net.nz> expelled:
> I suppose it also depends what your threshold of tolerance is too.
> But when someone tells you to "fuck off home, we don't want you here"
> or calls you Gay, then thats my limit.
This doesn't sound at all typical. Even at my least tolerant and most
unreasonable I'm not going to address someone innocuous like this - my guess
is that something you're doing is pissing people off rather badly. I
suggest you take a really hard look at your attitudes and how you appear to
those around you and try to work out why this is happening.
Geoff McCaughan
> I suppose it also depends what your threshold of tolerance is too. But when
> someone tells you to "fuck off home, we don't want you here"
You should see what we do to top-posters!
--
Burn the land and boil the sea,
You can't take the sky from me.
Chris
> I suppose it also depends what your threshold of tolerance is too. But when
> someone tells you to "fuck off home, we don't want you here"
> or calls you Gay, then thats my limit. Happily married man with 3 kids, IQ
> of 130+ and as un-gay as possible!
> As permanent residents we are here for life, who knows I may clock up more
> than 47 years - that would make me 88.
>
> Mike
>
It could just be that you've been unlucky enough to encounter more
than your fair share of arseholes. As an expat NZer living
abroad, I find that sometimes one can be more sensitive to
arseholes in one's newly adopted country. The general run
of the mill arseholes one encounters in one's home country
tend to be unconsciously filed in the "shit happens" category
of one's brain, whereas the stuff you encounter as an immigrant
is filed as "that [American/Kiwi/French...] arsehole" bin.
Plus you are left wondering if said arsehole hassled you cos
you are foreign, which is more hurtful and thus more memorable
This doesn't happen when Mr. arseholio generalis accosts you
at home - you don't question yourself or your country. That
said, I've probably encountered less than my fair share of
arseholes in my adopted homeland (although strangely, the media
here seems overpopulated by them. Of course the voting population
did elect a capital A arsehole, but that's a common problem.)
Michael Brook
"Chris" <dig...@rohan.sdsu.edu> wrote in message
news:c54ff41f.04050...@posting.google.com...
Yep
I think you are right on this. Spot on with the media and PM too ;o)
We are looking to move to a new area anyway. Still lots of NZ to explore.
There are some lovely people here too, I don't want to sound bitter, and the
fly fishing and scenery is the best in the world.
Subject closed
Mike
Wild Colonial Boy
<mbr...@paradise.net.nz> wrote:
>
> "Wild Colonial Boy" <nos...@iconz.co.nz> wrote in message
>news:gsqg801f4cbvmunp6...@4ax.com...
> > On Sat, 27 Mar 2004 09:53:36 +1200, "Col:" <C...@xtra.con> wrote:
> >
> > >On Sat, 27 Mar 2004 08:42:46 +1200, Wild Colonial Boy
> > ><someth...@iconz.co.nz> wrote:
> > >
> > >>On 17 Mar 2004 09:00:50 -0800, joanne...@hotmail.com (Joanne)
> > >>wrote:
> > >>
> > >>>How do New Zealanders feel about people immigrating to their country
> > >>>(Americans in particular)? Thanks for any responses!
> > >>
>
> I've bee here with my family for 3 years now and I find that generally the
>attitude towards the English or "Poms" as they incorrectly call us to be
>pretty bad.
That varies. It also depends on the attitude of the 'Pom' concerned.
For instance if an English family immigrates here and then starts to
moan about the lack of British Football on TV and the predominance of
Rugby on NZ television then...that's just dumb.
Moaning about the country that you've just immigrated to is a bad
look.
> Does this attitude vary from region to region?
Quite probably.
> Wairarapa is bad for this.
Wairarapa is mostly rural...
Nik
Wild Colonial Boy
<mbr...@paradise.net.nz> wrote:
>
> Yep thats the sort of answer I was expecting.
>
> I never expect NZ to be like back home. NZ is my home and has been for 3
>years.
> I never complain to anyone about anything, nor does my family.
> My family and I took a great deal of time and expense to get here and love
>the Country.
> I quit 2 jobs because of racist attitudes, and we aren't talking a bit of
>good humoured banter.
> One job in Wellington City and the other in Martinborough.
>
> I think the attitude varies with region. Wairarapa is predominately low
>income farm work. Maybe we are seen as a threat?
>
> Move South? Thats an interesting point and we are looking at that
>possibility so that our children will be nearer universities when the time
>comes for them. I'd be interested to hear about Canterbury and Otago
>regions.
Canterbury was a Church of England settlement. You would probably be
more comfortable there, CHCH is quite an English place.
Nik
Wild Colonial Boy
wrote:
>Michael Brook wrote:
>
>> I've bee here with my family for 3 years now and I find that generally the
>> attitude towards the English or "Poms" as they incorrectly call us to be
>> pretty bad.
>> Does this attitude vary from region to region?
>> Wairarapa is bad for this.
>
>Anyone from anywhere in the British Isles is called a 'Pom',
Only an idiot would call a Scot a "Pom", and even more so when you
consider that Ireland is ostensibly part of the British Isles...
> many - perhaps most - New Zealanders have Poms somewhere in their ancestry.
Perhaps? Of course most New Zealanders have some English ancestry.
Nik
Geoff McCaughan
> CHCH is quite an English place.
Bollocks. This sort of rubbish is perpetuated by people who have been to
neither place.
Wild Colonial Boy
<geo...@spam.fqdn.com> wrote:
>Wild Colonial Boy <nos...@iconz.co.nz> wrote:
>
>> CHCH is quite an English place.
>
>Bollocks. This sort of rubbish is perpetuated by people who have been to
>neither place.
I was born in Burwood Hospital in 1967, I lived in the Papanui area
from 1972-1983, attended Papanui High School, indeed my name is still
on the Papanui High School Swimming Cup. My family then did 3 years in
Wellington, after which I returned to CHCH. I joined the TF, was based
in Burnham and King Edward Barracks, attended Canterbury University
where I obtained a B.Sc. I stayed in CHCH till July 1996 barring
another six month stint in Wellington.
In 2001 me and my family left New Zealand to live in Ireland for 15
months. During that time I spent a total of 1 month living in England.
I was mostly located in Bristol and I visited York, London,
Glastonbury and Bideford.
Now I live in Auckland but I intend to, eventually, return to
Canterbury.
Would you like me to scan my passport and email it to you as
verification?
If so then be prepared to change your mind, if not, then shut the fuck
up.
Nik
philip
> Only an idiot would call a Scot a "Pom", and even more so when you
> consider that Ireland is ostensibly part of the British Isles...
Many New Zealanders don't easily distinguish the various British
accents. There are some who are unaware that there are diferent
countries within the UK. And New Zealand was quite largely colonised by
Scots. Your assertion is faintly insulting, but still unproven and
incorrect.
>
>
>>many - perhaps most - New Zealanders have Poms somewhere in their ancestry.
>
>
> Perhaps? Of course most New Zealanders have some English ancestry.
>
I already said that.
Philip
Geoff McCaughan
> On Mon, 10 May 2004 00:08:02 GMT, Geoff McCaughan
> <geo...@spam.fqdn.com> wrote:
>>Wild Colonial Boy <nos...@iconz.co.nz> wrote:
>>
>>> CHCH is quite an English place.
>>
>>Bollocks. This sort of rubbish is perpetuated by people who have been to
>>neither place.
> Would you like me to scan my passport and email it to you as
> verification?
> If so then be prepared to change your mind, if not, then shut the fuck
> up.
If you've been to both, you'll know that CHCH is about as english as say,
San Francisco.
Brian Dooley
On Mon, 10 May 2004 21:22:29 GMT, philip
<philip_...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
snip---
>Many New Zealanders don't easily distinguish the various British
>accents.
True
>There are some who are unaware that there are diferent
>countries within the UK.
True again, Philip.
>And New Zealand was quite largely colonised by
>Scots.
It depends what you mean by 'largely'.
From the first census in 1861 England supplied by far the
majority of immigrants (McLintock, Vol2, p135).
Gregory Procter
Wild Colonial Boy wrote:
LOL - I think you made your point! :-)
Wild Colonial Boy
<geo...@spam.fqdn.com> wrote:
>Wild Colonial Boy <nos...@iconz.co.nz> wrote:
>> On Mon, 10 May 2004 00:08:02 GMT, Geoff McCaughan
>> <geo...@spam.fqdn.com> wrote:
>
>>>Wild Colonial Boy <nos...@iconz.co.nz> wrote:
>>>
>>>> CHCH is quite an English place.
>>>
>>>Bollocks. This sort of rubbish is perpetuated by people who have been to
>>>neither place.
>
>> Would you like me to scan my passport and email it to you as
>> verification?
>
>> If so then be prepared to change your mind, if not, then shut the fuck
>> up.
>
>If you've been to both, you'll know that CHCH is about as english as say,
>San Francisco.
How else does one explain the existence of a Church of England
Cathedral right in the focal centre of the city then?
The fake posh English accents that the girls who go to the expensive
girls schools, Rangi Ruru particularly, come out with?
That a Church of England school is the most prestigious school in
Christchurch?
The name for example, you fucking ignorant twat, Christchurch is a
town in England whereas San Francisco is not English at all...
That about says enough even to someone who's plainly a knucklemuncher
like you.
Nik
Wild Colonial Boy
Any reasonable person would think so...
How about this as well then, go to Perry Street in Papanui. I lived in
37 Perry Street from 1972-1983. You will note that there is no 35
Perry Street as the street numbers jump from 33 to 37...
Now, verify that for yourself you ignorant fucking wanker McCaughan or
Wild Colonial Boy
wrote:
>Wild Colonial Boy wrote:
>
>> Only an idiot would call a Scot a "Pom", and even more so when you
>> consider that Ireland is ostensibly part of the British Isles...
>
>Many New Zealanders don't easily distinguish the various British
>accents.
The difference between a Scottish and any English accent is very easy
for me. That some people cannot do this tells me either: their hearing
isn't very good or they don't pay attention to people talking to them.
> There are some who are unaware that there are diferent
>countries within the UK.
Well that is pathetically ignorant, imho.
>And New Zealand was quite largely colonised by
>Scots.
People with, at least some, Scottish ancestry are the second largest
group in the country, after people with English ancestry.
> Your assertion is faintly insulting, but still unproven and
>incorrect.
I stand by it.
>>>many - perhaps most - New Zealanders have Poms somewhere in their ancestry.
>>
>>
>> Perhaps? Of course most New Zealanders have some English ancestry.
>>
>I already said that.
Well thats alright then, we agree on that.
Nik
Wild Colonial Boy
>On Wed, 12 May 2004 09:45:21 +1200, Brian Dooley <bri...@paradise.net.nz>
>wrote:
>
>>
>>On Mon, 10 May 2004 21:22:29 GMT, philip
>><philip_...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>snip---
>>
>>>Many New Zealanders don't easily distinguish the various British
>>>accents.
>>
>>True
>>
>>>There are some who are unaware that there are diferent
>>>countries within the UK.
>>
>>True again, Philip.
>>
>>>And New Zealand was quite largely colonised by
>>>Scots.
>>
>>It depends what you mean by 'largely'.
>>
>It means "largely" under the Kilt ?
<cackle>
Hamish showed Morag his Sporran.
Nik
Gregory Procter
Wild Colonial Boy wrote:
Thornton Street in St.Albans has no #26. I lived in #24 from 1984-91.
Locksley Ave in Shirley has no even numbers. Lived at 175 from 1991-2002.
Christchurch is as much like a large English town as one can get anywhere,
except that there are probably less Maoris in Christchurch.
In the same manner, Dunedin is like a lowland Scottish town.
Brian Dooley
<nos...@iconz.co.nz> wrote:
snip---
>People with, at least some, Scottish ancestry are the second largest
>group in the country, after people with English ancestry.
And are often the same people.
te...@texasremovethisbit.usa.com
<geo...@spam.fqdn.com> wrote:
>Wild Colonial Boy <nos...@iconz.co.nz> wrote:
>> On Mon, 10 May 2004 00:08:02 GMT, Geoff McCaughan
>> <geo...@spam.fqdn.com> wrote:
>
>>>Wild Colonial Boy <nos...@iconz.co.nz> wrote:
>>>
>>>> CHCH is quite an English place.
>>>
>>>Bollocks. This sort of rubbish is perpetuated by people who have been to
>>>neither place.
>
>> Would you like me to scan my passport and email it to you as
>> verification?
>
>> If so then be prepared to change your mind, if not, then shut the fuck
>> up.
>
>If you've been to both, you'll know that CHCH is about as english as say,
>San Francisco.
San Fran is no way in any shape or form 'english'.
Though there are a couple of spots where one may think 'Victorian' due
to the architecture. Nob Hill and the Painted Ladies come to mind.
Christchurch is - and I lived there a lot longer than you have.
BTW, look at the Cathedral - plonked there by english settlers of the
Anglican faith; then you have Latimer & Cramner Squares - get who
they were named after?
The old University, Musuem, the Boys' Colleges etc etc.
The first 4 ships and the list goes on and on and on.
You were not educated in Christchurch so you never had the grounding
of the city's history.
Cath
Geoff McCaughan
Wild Colonial Boy
<pro...@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
Exactly. I couldn't agree more and before anyone says it, I've been to
both places.
Nik
Wild Colonial Boy
<bri...@paradise.net.nz> wrote:
>On Wed, 12 May 2004 20:08:40 +1200, Wild Colonial Boy
><nos...@iconz.co.nz> wrote:
>
>snip---
>
>>People with, at least some, Scottish ancestry are the second largest
>>group in the country, after people with English ancestry.
>
>And are often the same people.
Often indeed. Still true though.
Nik
Wild Colonial Boy
wrote:
And I. It is a matter of public record that I graduated from
Canterbury University in 1992...
Nik
Wild Colonial Boy
<geo...@spam.fqdn.com> wrote:
>te...@texasremovethisbit.usa.com wrote:
>
>> San Fran is no way in any shape or form 'english'.
>
>Exactly.
Christchurch was designed by the Town Planner of the British Empire -
Edward Gibbon Wakefield, it has a Church of England Cathedral at its
centre...it is named after a town in England...
All of these things, and more, make Christchurch a very Englishy sort
of a place.
There is no sensible argument against that notion.
Nik
Geoff McCaughan
> All of these things, and more, make Christchurch a very Englishy sort
> of a place.
> There is no sensible argument against that notion.
Except that it's not remotely like England.
Brian Boutel
Can you identify any part of English urban landscape that looks anything
like Christchurch? Where in ChCh are the endless rows of brick terraced
and semi-detached houses? How many towns in England are built on a grid
pattern? Even the Cathedral and the other 19th centure mock-gothic
buildings don't look very English - they're not old enough.
That's not to say that the people in ChCh don't like to think they are
more English than the rest of us, but it's just a caricature that
wouldn't fool a real English person for a minute. And the schools whose
products have "fake posh English accents", do they provide a good modern
education, or are they trying to emulate English schools as they used to
be a hundred years ago? When is Christ's College going to admit girls,
as many of the great English Public Schools now do?
--brian
--
Brian Boutel
Wellington New Zealand
Note the NOSPAM
Gregory Procter
Brian Boutel wrote:
> Wild Colonial Boy wrote:
>
> > On Thu, 13 May 2004 05:38:12 GMT, Geoff McCaughan
> > <geo...@spam.fqdn.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>te...@texasremovethisbit.usa.com wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>San Fran is no way in any shape or form 'english'.
> >>
> >>Exactly.
> >
> >
> > Christchurch was designed by the Town Planner of the British Empire -
> > Edward Gibbon Wakefield, it has a Church of England Cathedral at its
> > centre...it is named after a town in England...
> >
> > All of these things, and more, make Christchurch a very Englishy sort
> > of a place.
> >
> > There is no sensible argument against that notion.
>
> Can you identify any part of English urban landscape that looks anything
> like Christchurch? Where in ChCh are the endless rows of brick terraced
> and semi-detached houses?
Addington.
> How many towns in England are built on a grid
> pattern?
It only requires one.
> Even the Cathedral and the other 19th centure mock-gothic
> buildings don't look very English - they're not old enough.
Of course they're not old enough - that point is somewhat limited by the
date of the founding of the settlement.
>
>
> That's not to say that the people in ChCh don't like to think they are
> more English than the rest of us, but it's just a caricature that
> wouldn't fool a real English person for a minute. And the schools whose
> products have "fake posh English accents",
What fake posh English accents? As a scruffy urchin from a lower
socio-economic high school, I (with help) thrashed the Boys High hockey team
several times and never once heard an "I say old chap ..." from the beaten
team!
> do they provide a good modern
> education,
We saw a TV series on modern British education and pupils trying out 1950s
school recently - bring back the 1960s!
> or are they trying to emulate English schools as they used to
> be a hundred years ago? When is Christ's College going to admit girls,
The current thinking is that single sex school pupils do better than co-eds.
>
> as many of the great English Public Schools now do?
Give us credit for some sense - Christchurch is _like_ an English city, it
is not actually one.
Wild Colonial Boy
<boutel...@acm.org> wrote:
>Wild Colonial Boy wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 13 May 2004 05:38:12 GMT, Geoff McCaughan
>> <geo...@spam.fqdn.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>te...@texasremovethisbit.usa.com wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>San Fran is no way in any shape or form 'english'.
>>>
>>>Exactly.
>>
>>
>> Christchurch was designed by the Town Planner of the British Empire -
>> Edward Gibbon Wakefield, it has a Church of England Cathedral at its
>> centre...it is named after a town in England...
>>
>> All of these things, and more, make Christchurch a very Englishy sort
>> of a place.
>>
>> There is no sensible argument against that notion.
>Can you identify any part of English urban landscape that looks anything
>like Christchurch? Where in ChCh are the endless rows of brick terraced
>and semi-detached houses?
Wood was/is the common building material in New Zealand. England used
most of their forests up sometime ago.
> How many towns in England are built on a grid
>pattern?
That was a deliberate choice on the part of Edward Gibbon Wakefield,
the architect of the British Empire in order to make the CHCH roads
conducive to horse and cart. Of course, most of the large cities in
England have ancient roots stretching back to the Romans, if not
before. Wakefield was able to use Canterbury as a blank slate and plan
what he thought was best whereas the old English cities sprung up
organically.
I do not recall claiming that Christchurch is exactly like England but
rather that Christchurch is a very Englishy place and you have not
established that it is not. Even in its pretentious fake englishness
its still English influenced.
>Even the Cathedral and the other 19th centure mock-gothic
>buildings don't look very English - they're not old enough.
Oldness is not synonymous with Englishness
>That's not to say that the people in ChCh don't like to think they are
>more English than the rest of us,
Some, foolishly, do.
> but it's just a caricature that
>wouldn't fool a real English person for a minute.
As I have already alluded to.
> And the schools whose
>products have "fake posh English accents", do they provide a good modern
>education,
My suggestion is that you look up the NCEA results on the web if you
really want to know. I recall that some of the state schools in
Christchurch, having been to one myself - Papanui High School,
produced reasonably academic students.
>or are they trying to emulate English schools as they used to
>be a hundred years ago?
There was still a fair amount of that when I was young in CHCH. I
would imagine that it is still how you suggest but perhaps a bit less
so these days.
>When is Christ's College going to admit girls,
I neither know nor care.
>as many of the great English Public Schools now do?
The last time I saw English Public school boys was one night in
Bristol when they were brawling with each other...their pugilistic
skills left something to be desired.
Nik
Wild Colonial Boy
<geo...@spam.fqdn.com> wrote:
>Wild Colonial Boy <nos...@iconz.co.nz> wrote:
>
>> All of these things, and more, make Christchurch a very Englishy sort
>> of a place.
>
>> There is no sensible argument against that notion.
>
>Except that it's not remotely like England.
You're either a troll or an idiot.
You haven't responded to the detail that I've provided in an earlier
post regards the area of Christchurch that I grew up in. The reason
for this, is that you can't and still retain any vestige of fairness,
reason or sense.
Nik
Wild Colonial Boy
<pro...@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
>Brian Boutel wrote:
>
>> Wild Colonial Boy wrote:
>>
>> > On Thu, 13 May 2004 05:38:12 GMT, Geoff McCaughan
>> > <geo...@spam.fqdn.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >>te...@texasremovethisbit.usa.com wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>>San Fran is no way in any shape or form 'english'.
>> >>
>> >>Exactly.
>> >
>> >
>> > Christchurch was designed by the Town Planner of the British Empire -
>> > Edward Gibbon Wakefield, it has a Church of England Cathedral at its
>> > centre...it is named after a town in England...
>> >
>> > All of these things, and more, make Christchurch a very Englishy sort
>> > of a place.
>> >
>> > There is no sensible argument against that notion.
>>
>> Can you identify any part of English urban landscape that looks anything
>> like Christchurch? Where in ChCh are the endless rows of brick terraced
>> and semi-detached houses?
>
>Addington.
I was thinking about saying that. They are there but not in the
numbers of England.
>> How many towns in England are built on a grid
>> pattern?
>
>It only requires one.
>
>> Even the Cathedral and the other 19th centure mock-gothic
>> buildings don't look very English - they're not old enough.
>
>Of course they're not old enough - that point is somewhat limited by the
>date of the founding of the settlement.
Our correspondent is slipping...as I've already said...oldness is not
synonymous with englishness.
>> That's not to say that the people in ChCh don't like to think they are
>> more English than the rest of us, but it's just a caricature that
>> wouldn't fool a real English person for a minute. And the schools whose
>> products have "fake posh English accents",
>
>What fake posh English accents? As a scruffy urchin from a lower
>socio-economic high school, I (with help) thrashed the Boys High hockey team
>several times and never once heard an "I say old chap ..." from the beaten
>team!
Its not so much Christchurch Boys High School but Christs College,
Rangi Ruru & St Margarets.
>> do they provide a good modern
>> education,
>
>We saw a TV series on modern British education and pupils trying out 1950s
>school recently - bring back the 1960s!
>
>> or are they trying to emulate English schools as they used to
>> be a hundred years ago? When is Christ's College going to admit girls,
>
>The current thinking is that single sex school pupils do better than co-eds.
And after the school years? Does that still hold?
>> as many of the great English Public Schools now do?
>
>Give us credit for some sense - Christchurch is _like_ an English city, it
>is not actually one.
Indeed, as I have already claimed in past.
Nik
Gregory Procter
Wild Colonial Boy wrote:
> On Fri, 14 May 2004 18:16:52 +1200, Gregory Procter
> <pro...@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
>
> >Brian Boutel wrote:
> >
> >> Wild Colonial Boy wrote:
> >>
> >> > On Thu, 13 May 2004 05:38:12 GMT, Geoff McCaughan
> >> > <geo...@spam.fqdn.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >>te...@texasremovethisbit.usa.com wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>>San Fran is no way in any shape or form 'english'.
> >> >>
> >> >>Exactly.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Christchurch was designed by the Town Planner of the British Empire -
> >> > Edward Gibbon Wakefield, it has a Church of England Cathedral at its
> >> > centre...it is named after a town in England...
> >> >
> >> > All of these things, and more, make Christchurch a very Englishy sort
> >> > of a place.
> >> >
> >> > There is no sensible argument against that notion.
> >>
> >> Can you identify any part of English urban landscape that looks anything
> >> like Christchurch? Where in ChCh are the endless rows of brick terraced
> >> and semi-detached houses?
> >
> >Addington.
>
> I was thinking about saying that. They are there but not in the
> numbers of England.
>
There were once more of them, but they knocked them down to build a better class
of slum! ;-)
>
> >> How many towns in England are built on a grid
> >> pattern?
> >
> >It only requires one.
> >
> >> Even the Cathedral and the other 19th centure mock-gothic
> >> buildings don't look very English - they're not old enough.
> >
> >Of course they're not old enough - that point is somewhat limited by the
> >date of the founding of the settlement.
>
> Our correspondent is slipping...as I've already said...oldness is not
> synonymous with englishness.
Well, we'd do better arguing against each other - what can we disagree on?
>
>
> >> That's not to say that the people in ChCh don't like to think they are
> >> more English than the rest of us, but it's just a caricature that
> >> wouldn't fool a real English person for a minute. And the schools whose
> >> products have "fake posh English accents",
> >
> >What fake posh English accents? As a scruffy urchin from a lower
> >socio-economic high school, I (with help) thrashed the Boys High hockey team
> >several times and never once heard an "I say old chap ..." from the beaten
> >team!
>
> Its not so much Christchurch Boys High School but Christs College,
> Rangi Ruru & St Margarets.
My neighbours went to Christs College - they never seemed posh etc, but then my
dad was their dad's boss.
Some of the Rangi Girls came to our school for physics, maths etc - they never
told me that they were stuck up!
>
>
> >> do they provide a good modern
> >> education,
> >
> >We saw a TV series on modern British education and pupils trying out 1950s
> >school recently - bring back the 1960s!
> >
> >> or are they trying to emulate English schools as they used to
> >> be a hundred years ago? When is Christ's College going to admit girls,
> >
> >The current thinking is that single sex school pupils do better than co-eds.
>
> And after the school years? Does that still hold?
Most seem to prefer mixed sex - did I misunderstand your question?
Wild Colonial Boy
<pro...@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
Heh, yeah. Still though the weatherboard wooden building has held sway
more so here than in Britain. This is largely, of course, due to the
relative abundance of wood in New Zealand relative to Britain.
>> >> How many towns in England are built on a grid
>> >> pattern?
>> >
>> >It only requires one.
>> >
>> >> Even the Cathedral and the other 19th centure mock-gothic
>> >> buildings don't look very English - they're not old enough.
>> >
>> >Of course they're not old enough - that point is somewhat limited by the
>> >date of the founding of the settlement.
>>
>> Our correspondent is slipping...as I've already said...oldness is not
>> synonymous with englishness.
>
>Well, we'd do better arguing against each other - what can we disagree on?
Papanui High is tougher than the school you went to?
>> >> That's not to say that the people in ChCh don't like to think they are
>> >> more English than the rest of us, but it's just a caricature that
>> >> wouldn't fool a real English person for a minute. And the schools whose
>> >> products have "fake posh English accents",
>> >
>> >What fake posh English accents? As a scruffy urchin from a lower
>> >socio-economic high school, I (with help) thrashed the Boys High hockey team
>> >several times and never once heard an "I say old chap ..." from the beaten
>> >team!
>>
>> Its not so much Christchurch Boys High School but Christs College,
>> Rangi Ruru & St Margarets.
>
>My neighbours went to Christs College - they never seemed posh etc, but then my
>dad was their dad's boss.
It is possible for - less than rich - to attend Christs College. There
are subsidies available...this is not to say that your neighbour
wasn't paying the entire fee but it doesn't sound like it.
>Some of the Rangi Girls came to our school for physics, maths etc - they never
>told me that they were stuck up!
Some of those girls put on fake posh accents. I remember them doing
it.
If one is consciously aware of the class structure of Christchurch and
its resemblance to the social structure of Britain at the time of
settlement i.e the Victorian era, the notion that Christchurch isn't
any more English than say, San Francisco becomes all more stupid a
claim.
>> >> do they provide a good modern
>> >> education,
>> >
>> >We saw a TV series on modern British education and pupils trying out 1950s
>> >school recently - bring back the 1960s!
>> >
>> >> or are they trying to emulate English schools as they used to
>> >> be a hundred years ago? When is Christ's College going to admit girls,
>> >
>> >The current thinking is that single sex school pupils do better than co-eds.
>>
>> And after the school years? Does that still hold?
>
>Most seem to prefer mixed sex - did I misunderstand your question?
I'm making a broader comment about education and its value. Meaning,
do people who went to single sex schools vs people who went to state
schools, adjusting for parental income levels, do better or worse than
those those who went to private schools?
Nik
Gregory Procter
Wild Colonial Boy wrote:
The use of different building materials does not negate all similarities between
Christchurch and England, after all Christchurch was intended to be an improvement on
the reigning conditions in England at the time it was mooted.
>
> >> >> How many towns in England are built on a grid
> >> >> pattern?
> >> >
> >> >It only requires one.
> >> >
> >> >> Even the Cathedral and the other 19th centure mock-gothic
> >> >> buildings don't look very English - they're not old enough.
> >> >
> >> >Of course they're not old enough - that point is somewhat limited by the
> >> >date of the founding of the settlement.
> >>
> >> Our correspondent is slipping...as I've already said...oldness is not
> >> synonymous with englishness.
> >
> >Well, we'd do better arguing against each other - what can we disagree on?
>
> Papanui High is tougher than the school you went to?
Hell no - Riccarton was much tougher!
>
>
> >> >> That's not to say that the people in ChCh don't like to think they are
> >> >> more English than the rest of us, but it's just a caricature that
> >> >> wouldn't fool a real English person for a minute. And the schools whose
> >> >> products have "fake posh English accents",
> >> >
> >> >What fake posh English accents? As a scruffy urchin from a lower
> >> >socio-economic high school, I (with help) thrashed the Boys High hockey team
> >> >several times and never once heard an "I say old chap ..." from the beaten
> >> >team!
> >>
> >> Its not so much Christchurch Boys High School but Christs College,
> >> Rangi Ruru & St Margarets.
> >
> >My neighbours went to Christs College - they never seemed posh etc, but then my
> >dad was their dad's boss.
>
> It is possible for - less than rich - to attend Christs College. There
> are subsidies available...this is not to say that your neighbour
> wasn't paying the entire fee but it doesn't sound like it.
I'm sure they were - he was a doctor or psychiatrist.
>
>
> >Some of the Rangi Girls came to our school for physics, maths etc - they never
> >told me that they were stuck up!
>
> Some of those girls put on fake posh accents. I remember them doing
> it.
Not at Riccarton High!
>
>
> If one is consciously aware of the class structure of Christchurch and
> its resemblance to the social structure of Britain at the time of
> settlement i.e the Victorian era, the notion that Christchurch isn't
> any more English than say, San Francisco becomes all more stupid a
> claim.
>
I was in a position to be involved in Christchurch's social structure at a number of
levels, from top to bottom. (my Father ran mental hospitals) I think that overall the
class structure in Christchurch (of 30 odd years ago) would be less rigid that the
equivalent in England but modelled on it at the upper end.
>
> >> >> do they provide a good modern
> >> >> education,
> >> >
> >> >We saw a TV series on modern British education and pupils trying out 1950s
> >> >school recently - bring back the 1960s!
> >> >
> >> >> or are they trying to emulate English schools as they used to
> >> >> be a hundred years ago? When is Christ's College going to admit girls,
> >> >
> >> >The current thinking is that single sex school pupils do better than co-eds.
> >>
> >> And after the school years? Does that still hold?
> >
> >Most seem to prefer mixed sex - did I misunderstand your question?
>
> I'm making a broader comment about education and its value. Meaning,
> do people who went to single sex schools vs people who went to state
> schools, adjusting for parental income levels, do better or worse than
> those those who went to private schools?
I can only give a subjective response based on my own experience and that of friends
and family:
Private schools turn out individuals who do well in business and badly in life.
State co-eds turn out individuals who do better in life skills.
Single sex schools find a middle ground.
Regards,
Greg.P.
Wild Colonial Boy
<pro...@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
Indeed, a newer improved version of England complete with a carbon
copy social structure...its still there. Christchurch is English
influenced in a deep way that ignoramus Geoff McCaughan, obviously
knows nothing about.
>> >> >> How many towns in England are built on a grid
>> >> >> pattern?
>> >> >
>> >> >It only requires one.
>> >> >
>> >> >> Even the Cathedral and the other 19th centure mock-gothic
>> >> >> buildings don't look very English - they're not old enough.
>> >> >
>> >> >Of course they're not old enough - that point is somewhat limited by the
>> >> >date of the founding of the settlement.
>> >>
>> >> Our correspondent is slipping...as I've already said...oldness is not
>> >> synonymous with englishness.
>> >
>> >Well, we'd do better arguing against each other - what can we disagree on?
>>
>> Papanui High is tougher than the school you went to?
>
>Hell no - Riccarton was much tougher!
Them's fightin word!
Tell me, did you ever know Donna Cook?
>> >> >> That's not to say that the people in ChCh don't like to think they are
>> >> >> more English than the rest of us, but it's just a caricature that
>> >> >> wouldn't fool a real English person for a minute. And the schools whose
>> >> >> products have "fake posh English accents",
>> >> >
>> >> >What fake posh English accents? As a scruffy urchin from a lower
>> >> >socio-economic high school, I (with help) thrashed the Boys High hockey team
>> >> >several times and never once heard an "I say old chap ..." from the beaten
>> >> >team!
>> >>
>> >> Its not so much Christchurch Boys High School but Christs College,
>> >> Rangi Ruru & St Margarets.
>> >
>> >My neighbours went to Christs College - they never seemed posh etc, but then my
>> >dad was their dad's boss.
>>
>> It is possible for - less than rich - to attend Christs College. There
>> are subsidies available...this is not to say that your neighbour
>> wasn't paying the entire fee but it doesn't sound like it.
>
>I'm sure they were - he was a doctor or psychiatrist.
Ah ok then, probably.
>> >Some of the Rangi Girls came to our school for physics, maths etc - they never
>> >told me that they were stuck up!
>>
>> Some of those girls put on fake posh accents. I remember them doing
>> it.
>
>Not at Riccarton High!
You can find them, even now, drinking on a Friday night down at the
Bush/the Caledonian...after a few beers their guard drops a bit.
>> If one is consciously aware of the class structure of Christchurch and
>> its resemblance to the social structure of Britain at the time of
>> settlement i.e the Victorian era, the notion that Christchurch isn't
>> any more English than say, San Francisco becomes all more stupid a
>> claim.
>
>I was in a position to be involved in Christchurch's social structure at a number of
>levels, from top to bottom. (my Father ran mental hospitals) I think that overall the
>class structure in Christchurch (of 30 odd years ago) would be less rigid that the
>equivalent in England but modelled on it at the upper end.
Indeed.
>> >> >> do they provide a good modern
>> >> >> education,
>> >> >
>> >> >We saw a TV series on modern British education and pupils trying out 1950s
>> >> >school recently - bring back the 1960s!
>> >> >
>> >> >> or are they trying to emulate English schools as they used to
>> >> >> be a hundred years ago? When is Christ's College going to admit girls,
>> >> >
>> >> >The current thinking is that single sex school pupils do better than co-eds.
>> >>
>> >> And after the school years? Does that still hold?
>> >
>> >Most seem to prefer mixed sex - did I misunderstand your question?
>>
>> I'm making a broader comment about education and its value. Meaning,
>> do people who went to single sex schools vs people who went to state
>> schools, adjusting for parental income levels, do better or worse than
>> those those who went to private schools?
>
>I can only give a subjective response based on my own experience and that of friends
>and family:
>Private schools turn out individuals who do well in business and badly in life.
>State co-eds turn out individuals who do better in life skills.
>Single sex schools find a middle ground.
Thats an interesting comment. I will meditate on it a bit....after I
nail your tanned Riccarton hide to the walls of Northlands.
<laughter>
Nik
Brian Dooley
<pro...@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
snip---
>Give us credit for some sense - Christchurch is _like_ an English city, it
>is not actually one.
Birmingham, Manchester or Liverpool?
Gregory Procter
Wild Colonial Boy wrote:
Hmmm, I don't do as much of that as I used to and nowdays I stick with the pen.
>
>
> Tell me, did you ever know Donna Cook?
That sounds very familiar in a now distant past - more information needed!
>
>
> >> >> >> That's not to say that the people in ChCh don't like to think they are
> >> >> >> more English than the rest of us, but it's just a caricature that
> >> >> >> wouldn't fool a real English person for a minute. And the schools whose
> >> >> >> products have "fake posh English accents",
> >> >> >
> >> >> >What fake posh English accents? As a scruffy urchin from a lower
> >> >> >socio-economic high school, I (with help) thrashed the Boys High hockey team
> >> >> >several times and never once heard an "I say old chap ..." from the beaten
> >> >> >team!
> >> >>
> >> >> Its not so much Christchurch Boys High School but Christs College,
> >> >> Rangi Ruru & St Margarets.
> >> >
> >> >My neighbours went to Christs College - they never seemed posh etc, but then my
> >> >dad was their dad's boss.
> >>
> >> It is possible for - less than rich - to attend Christs College. There
> >> are subsidies available...this is not to say that your neighbour
> >> wasn't paying the entire fee but it doesn't sound like it.
> >
> >I'm sure they were - he was a doctor or psychiatrist.
>
> Ah ok then, probably.
>
> >> >Some of the Rangi Girls came to our school for physics, maths etc - they never
> >> >told me that they were stuck up!
> >>
> >> Some of those girls put on fake posh accents. I remember them doing
> >> it.
> >
> >Not at Riccarton High!
>
> You can find them, even now, drinking on a Friday night down at the
> Bush/the Caledonian...after a few beers their guard drops a bit.
It used too way back, even without the beers!
LOL! I used to mix with some of the Papanui crowd - still occassionally see a girl/woman
from the area.
>
>
> <laughter>
>
> Nik
Gregory Procter
Brian Dooley wrote:
> On Fri, 14 May 2004 18:16:52 +1200, Gregory Procter
> <pro...@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
>
> snip---
>
> >Give us credit for some sense - Christchurch is _like_ an English city, it
> >is not actually one.
>
> Birmingham, Manchester or Liverpool?
A modernised version taken from a little of the best of each, mixed with 1840s
English Utopia.
Wild Colonial Boy
<pro...@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
>Wild Colonial Boy wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 15 May 2004 07:29:36 +1200, Gregory Procter
>> <pro...@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
>>
>> >Wild Colonial Boy wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Fri, 14 May 2004 21:12:29 +1200, Gregory Procter
>> >> <pro...@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >Wild Colonial Boy wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> On Fri, 14 May 2004 18:16:52 +1200, Gregory Procter
>> >> >> <pro...@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >Brian Boutel wrote:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> Wild Colonial Boy wrote:
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> > On Thu, 13 May 2004 05:38:12 GMT, Geoff McCaughan
>> >> >> >> > <geo...@spam.fqdn.com> wrote:
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >>te...@texasremovethisbit.usa.com wrote:
<cut>
>> >> >Well, we'd do better arguing against each other - what can we disagree on?
>> >>
>> >> Papanui High is tougher than the school you went to?
>> >
>> >Hell no - Riccarton was much tougher!
>>
>> Them's fightin word!
>
>Hmmm, I don't do as much of that as I used to and nowdays I stick with the pen.
Heh...me neither. I wuz only jokin.
>> Tell me, did you ever know Donna Cook?
>
>That sounds very familiar in a now distant past - more information needed!
Awesome blonde, she'd be 36 +/-1 these days, she was a good swimmer in
her teens.
I used to be a bouncer in both those pubs...when I was a student at
Canterbury.
Maybe I went to school with her/them...any of them 36 +/-1?
Nik
Wild Colonial Boy
<bri...@paradise.net.nz> wrote:
>On Fri, 14 May 2004 18:16:52 +1200, Gregory Procter
><pro...@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
>
>snip---
>
>>Give us credit for some sense - Christchurch is _like_ an English city, it
>>is not actually one.
>
>Birmingham, Manchester or Liverpool?
Your attempt at making a pedantic point flounders in the face of the
fact that Christchurch was designed by Edward Gibbon Wakefield, the
town planner of the British Empire...
Nik
Dave Joll
> Brian Dooley wrote:
> > On Fri, 14 May 2004 18:16:52 +1200, Gregory Procter
> > >Give us credit for some sense - Christchurch is _like_ an English city,
it
> > >is not actually one.
> > Birmingham, Manchester or Liverpool?
> A modernised version taken from a little of the best of each, mixed with
1840s
> English Utopia.
Milton Keynes?
Gregory Procter
Dave Joll wrote:
Sounds possible, but the total sum of my knowledge of Milton Keynes comes from
some British TV programme of several decades past - "The Good Life" or "Are you
being served" or somesuch. ;-)
Regards,
Greg.P.
Takaka.
Wild Colonial Boy
<bri...@paradise.net.nz> wrote:
>Really?
Yes.
>Did he design Wellington?
No. He did 17 cities in the British Empire. Perth, Melbourne,
Christchurch and 14 others. Wellington was not one of them.
>If not then what do you mean?
See above. It is, of course, exactly what I'm getting at, Christchurch
was a city designed by the British Empire to deliberately be a
'British' sort of a city, more precisely, English. Christchurch has a
notable and obvious English influence in its history and makeup and
anyone who says otherwise doesn't really have a clue what they're on
about.
Nik
Gregory Procter
Wild Colonial Boy wrote:
Collingwood, in Golden Bay, was intended to be New Zealand's capital. The entire
design for the "city" was planned in England. The designer assumed the terrain to
be flat, whereas some parts of it are so steep that a sheep would fall off! Not
all the main streets could be completed and linked up.
How "more British" can you get?
Brian Dooley
On Tue, 18 May 2004 18:58:21 +1200, Wild Colonial Boy
<nos...@iconz.co.nz> wrote:
Take away the river and the cathedral and what have you got - a
place of no particular distinction.
English cities of any antiquity were built around a castle, which
would be positioned for best defence, and it is the local
topography which determined what they looked like, so they are
all different.
But nearly all of them had a river and a cathedral - and so have
nearly all the great cities of Europe eg Paris and Rome.
Brian Dooley
On Tue, 18 May 2004 19:46:39 +1200, Gregory Procter
Wellington - it was also laid out on paper without regard for the
topography.
Michael Brook
"Brian Dooley" <bri...@paradise.net.nz> wrote in message
news:df9la0hqhqgr2g8a2...@4ax.com...
All English Cities have Cathedrals.
It is what distinguishes a city from a town!
Not all cities have castles. In fact the most remote English county of
Northumberland has the most castles,
because of its strategic position to the Scottish border.
Leeds Castle in Kent is in the middle of nowhere.
Yorkie (From the Roman City of York)
Gregory Procter
Wild Colonial Boy wrote:
> On Sat, 15 May 2004 16:39:44 +1200, Gregory Procter
> <pro...@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
>
> >Wild Colonial Boy wrote:
> >
> >> On Sat, 15 May 2004 07:29:36 +1200, Gregory Procter
> >> <pro...@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Wild Colonial Boy wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> On Fri, 14 May 2004 21:12:29 +1200, Gregory Procter
> >> >> <pro...@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >Wild Colonial Boy wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> On Fri, 14 May 2004 18:16:52 +1200, Gregory Procter
> >> >> >> <pro...@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >Brian Boutel wrote:
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> Wild Colonial Boy wrote:
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> > On Thu, 13 May 2004 05:38:12 GMT, Geoff McCaughan
> >> >> >> >> > <geo...@spam.fqdn.com> wrote:
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> >>te...@texasremovethisbit.usa.com wrote:
>
> <cut>
>
> >> >> >Well, we'd do better arguing against each other - what can we disagree on?
> >> >>
> >> >> Papanui High is tougher than the school you went to?
> >> >
> >> >Hell no - Riccarton was much tougher!
> >>
> >> Them's fightin word!
> >
> >Hmmm, I don't do as much of that as I used to and nowdays I stick with the pen.
>
> Heh...me neither. I wuz only jokin.
In that case, I wasn't! ;-)
>
>
> >> Tell me, did you ever know Donna Cook?
> >
> >That sounds very familiar in a now distant past - more information needed!
>
> Awesome blonde, she'd be 36 +/-1 these days, she was a good swimmer in
> her teens.
Nahh, I'm 20 years her senior (-1).
I used to drink there when I was a student at Canterbury. (and
the Gresham)
Awww hell, I used to drink anywhere in those days!
That would be their offspring.
Regards,
Greg.P.
Brian Dooley
On Thu, 20 May 2004 10:32:46 +1200, "Michael Brook"
<mbr...@paradise.net.nz> wrote:
snip---
>All English Cities have Cathedrals.
>It is what distinguishes a city from a town!
Traditionally that is so, although it's the royal charter which
makes it so.
>Not all cities have castles. In fact the most remote English county of
>Northumberland has the most castles,
>because of its strategic position to the Scottish border.
>Leeds Castle in Kent is in the middle of nowhere.
Not all Kentish men would agree.
>
>Yorkie (From the Roman City of York)
Actually the Roman city was Eboracum, York was Viking.
Michael Brook
York is more associated with the Roman settlement due to the fact that the
city is still ringed by the Roman wall and the Roman history and occupation
is welll documented.
You are correct re the Viking name of york, originally Jorvik. A few Viking
artifacts were discovered in recent years. A very good viking museum exists
there now.
York is well worth a visit , the museum where you can see the cell where
Dick Turpin was held prior to execution, the house where Guy Faulks lived,
the Roman remains and of course the splendid York Minster.
Wild Colonial Boy
<bri...@paradise.net.nz> wrote:
A place with an Old University building that resembles Oxbridge, a
stately Church of England boarding school, lots of people who quite
consciously claim lineage going back to England, a culture that
resembles, in social structure, Victorian England.
>English cities of any antiquity
Precisely, and English cities created after the Medieval period?
> were built around a castle, which
>would be positioned for best defence, and it is the local
>topography which determined what they looked like, so they are
>all different.
So?
>But nearly all of them had a river and a cathedral - and so have
>nearly all the great cities of Europe eg Paris and Rome.
So?
Nik
Wild Colonial Boy
No, Yorvik was Viking.
Nik
Michael Brook
"Wild Colonial Boy" <nos...@iconz.co.nz> wrote in message
news:qpura0lqp9vrngg4l...@4ax.com...
Brian Dooley
Ok, if you want to be pedantic, Jorvik.
Brian Dooley
On Sat, 22 May 2004 00:50:37 +1200, Wild Colonial Boy
<nos...@iconz.co.nz> wrote:
So I'm English, and I'm telling you.