Mexican Taco Eaters
j...@dor.net
I came on here to this pathetic newsgroup and, as a courtesy to you,
tried to post in Spanish. In response, I had not one but two
taco-eating Mexicans tell me if I couldn't write better Spanish, to type
in English. First of all, you all know what I said. But how rude to say
something like that. I've heard that Mexican people appreciate any
attempt to speak their language, yet I get that inconsiderate response
from you. For your information, I used to be fluent in Spanish. I
lived in South America for two years. But after 15 years, you forget a
lot. If you were trying to offend me, you succeeded. Congrats!
All this has been a very eye-opening experience to me, one that has
caused me to lose all faith in Mexicans and other Hispanics. It all
started with that LADA commercial. Every response I read to that had
something to do with, "Well, you screw us too." I want you to respond
directly to that ad! Not bring up something else. How on earth can you
defend that ad?! I'll right now tell you I'm sorry for any ad over here
that has stereotyped Mexicans in a negative way. You sorry people are
too full of tacos to extend to me the same courtesy. Also mentioned in
defense of that ad were our politicians who "deal cocaine," Proposition
187 (or whatever the hell the number is), our affairs in Panama, the
Helms-Burton, etc. I loved the cocaine one. I believe there was also
the requisite reference to that trouble maker Che Guevara, who all Latin
American youngsters are in love with.
In my opinion, the time has come to quit taking crap from Mexico. We
need military bases along the border, and by gosh, start kicking some
butt. Any Mexicans coming over the border, let 'em have it. This would
put a stop to the immigration problem and pronto! And our nation would
save billions of dollars in money we now spend to support these people.
It could cost a billion dollars a year to run those bases, but we'd
still come out ahead. If you could handle your own affairs, it wouldn't
cost us a cent. Canada can take care of themselves, and we have no
problem with them. The problem with you is your pathetic culture.
Can you imagine the treatment Americans would get in your famous jails
if we broke laws like you do? If Mexico wants to do business in Cuba,
get the hell out of the U.S. Make a choice. We hold the cards, you
Mexicans. Make Prop. 187 a national law. Get the welfare abusers out
of here. No more crap. Tell me one reason we should support illegal
Mexican immigrants -- without making reference to Che. There is no good
reason.
What, you say? This would make us look bad in Latin America??? They
wouldn't like us any more??? Hey, guess what -- you don't like us now,
you didn't like us before, and you won't like us in the future!!! So to
hell with you. Think about it: there is nothing in the world we could
do to make Latin America like us. Not a damn thing. Tell me what we
could do? I'm sick of this crap. I love watching TV Azteca news and
that Javier Alatorre and watching him tremble with hate as he talks
about the U.S. As long as Mexico is not a military threat to us, I say
time to stop taking crap. What are you going to do, bomb us with
tacos? I don't think so! Besides, we'd eat them as fast as you could
shoot them! Tacos ain't going to work!
What amazes me, is that some of the stuff you hear about America from
you Mexicans comes from educated Mexicans. One of the persons who told
me to post in Spanish was from a university in Guadalajara or Monterrey
or one of those taco towns. But from these people, you hear "all
Americans are fat" and other generalizations like that. If the best of
you think this way, there is no hope for the rest of you.
Again, I'm sick of the hate from you. I'm sick of going to other Latin
American countries and seeing hate in the eyes of people. So, to hell
with you. Let's not sugar coat this. I've given up. There is no
reason we should have to put up with these third-world countries. I say
until you develop the atomic-powered taco, that it's time for us to lay
down the law. Time for you third-world countries to play by our rules.
You're not going to like us anymore? Tough! Time for you to get your
own houses in order. Your mushrooming population, your polluted cities,
your corrupt governments and police. You can't drop the people you
can't take care of on us forever.
Larry Miller [DT]
j...@dor.net wrote:
: For your information, I used to be fluent in Spanish. I
: lived in South America for two years. But after 15 years, you forget a
: lot.
Amazing. You lived in South America for two years and actually use the
stereotype "taco eaters" in a news posting? You had the great fortune to
be exposed for an extended period to something other than predigested
isolationistic US culture, and apparently you missed the train. ;>
Saludos--
Larry Miller
Administrador de Redes / Network Administrator
Centro de Investigaciones Biologicas del Noroeste, La Paz, BCS Mexico
Yo
In article <328051...@dor.net>, j...@dor.net says:
>
>I came on here to this pathetic newsgroup and, as a courtesy to you,
>tried to post in Spanish. In response, I had not one but two
>taco-eating Mexicans tell me if I couldn't write better Spanish, to type
>in English. First of all, you all know what I said. But how rude to say
>something like that. I've heard that Mexican people appreciate any
>attempt to speak their language, yet I get that inconsiderate response
>lived in South America for two years. But after 15 years, you forget a
Jordi Sod
j...@dor.net waxes poetic about meat-filled rolled-up tortillas with
tomato-based hot sauce and a bit of cream accompanied by a cold Bohemia
and some grilled onions in message <328051...@dor.net>:
> I came on here to this pathetic newsgroup and, as a courtesy to you,
> tried to post in Spanish. In response, I had not one but two
> taco-eating Mexicans tell me if I couldn't write better Spanish, to type
PArdon my ignorance, but what exactly is wrong with being a taco-eating
Mexican?
> in English. First of all, you all know what I said. But how rude to say
> something like that. I've heard that Mexican people appreciate any
> attempt to speak their language, yet I get that inconsiderate response
> from you. For your information, I used to be fluent in Spanish. I
> lived in South America for two years. But after 15 years, you forget a
> lot. If you were trying to offend me, you succeeded. Congrats!
USENET has more than its share of hatemongers; in any case, rest assured
that both Spanish and English are proper venues of communication in any
of the soc.culture.* groups.
>
> All this has been a very eye-opening experience to me, one that has
> caused me to lose all faith in Mexicans and other Hispanics. It all
> started with that LADA commercial. Every response I read to that had
Gathering any conclusions on the Mexican people from a LADA commercial
is very naive. The only thing I gather is that Telmex (the PRIVATELY
OWNED telephone company), is using scare tactics to keep some of its
costumers. Or do you express your political opinions by switching to
MCI?
> something to do with, "Well, you screw us too." I want you to respond
> directly to that ad! Not bring up something else. How on earth can you
> defend that ad?! I'll right now tell you I'm sorry for any ad over here
> that has stereotyped Mexicans in a negative way. You sorry people are
> too full of tacos to extend to me the same courtesy. Also mentioned in
Dear Southern BBQ, apple-pie-eating Jim, just what is wrong with
authentic Mexican Tacos? Taco eating in Mexico has never been linked to
lack of etiquette.
> defense of that ad were our politicians who "deal cocaine," Proposition
> 187 (or whatever the hell the number is), our affairs in Panama, the
> Helms-Burton, etc. I loved the cocaine one. I believe there was also
> the requisite reference to that trouble maker Che Guevara, who all Latin
> American youngsters are in love with.
>
> In my opinion, the time has come to quit taking crap from Mexico. We
> need military bases along the border, and by gosh, start kicking some
> butt. Any Mexicans coming over the border, let 'em have it. This would
> put a stop to the immigration problem and pronto! And our nation would
And create riots in the Southwest like you've never seen before. And
recieve condemnation from the international community. And ruin your
trade with Latin America.
> save billions of dollars in money we now spend to support these people.
OF course, now you'd need to pay $5/lb for California grapes, now that
there'd be no cheap labor to pick them. Have you ever thought how much
money you are saving each time you go to the supermarket and buy produce
elaborated by immigrant hands?
> It could cost a billion dollars a year to run those bases, but we'd
> still come out ahead. If you could handle your own affairs, it wouldn't
> cost us a cent. Canada can take care of themselves, and we have no
> problem with them. The problem with you is your pathetic culture.
Just what is pathetic about our culture? Your attitude, that's what's
pathetic.
>
> Can you imagine the treatment Americans would get in your famous jails
> if we broke laws like you do? If Mexico wants to do business in Cuba,
Who, I? I go each day to the University to learn. I don't work in any
of our jails. I, an average middle-class Mexican, am a law-abiding
citizen with no ties to any wrongdoings by my government. The same can
be said of most Mexicans. The good thing is you are judging an entire
people based on limited perceptions of its government.
> get the hell out of the U.S. Make a choice. We hold the cards, you
> Mexicans. Make Prop. 187 a national law. Get the welfare abusers out
> of here. No more crap. Tell me one reason we should support illegal
And make groceries ridiculously expensive in the process, to begin.
> Mexican immigrants -- without making reference to Che. There is no good
> reason.
Because Mexican immigrants are supporting the food industry, the garment
industry, the house care industry.
>
> What, you say? This would make us look bad in Latin America??? They
> wouldn't like us any more??? Hey, guess what -- you don't like us now,
> you didn't like us before, and you won't like us in the future!!! So to
Actually, we LIKE YOU and we DON'T LIKE YOU. As far as I go, there are
many things I admire about the US, and many others that I despise.
Things are not that simple.
> hell with you. Think about it: there is nothing in the world we could
> do to make Latin America like us. Not a damn thing. Tell me what we
Why would you want to do that? MOre importantly, why would Latin
America want to be more like the US? Sure, we would like to have a
better economy, less corruption, etc., but that does not make the US the
paragon for progress. I'd rather have LAtin America become more like
Spain.
> could do? I'm sick of this crap. I love watching TV Azteca news and
> that Javier Alatorre and watching him tremble with hate as he talks
> about the U.S. As long as Mexico is not a military threat to us, I say
So, is Javier Alatorre the spokesman for Mexicans?
> time to stop taking crap. What are you going to do, bomb us with
> tacos? I don't think so! Besides, we'd eat them as fast as you could
Eliminate trade with you. Sue. Mexican-Americans can riot.
> shoot them! Tacos ain't going to work!
Tacos, tacos,tacos. You seem to have a fixation on tacos. Amusingly
enough, an American "taco" has nothing to do with the delicious
concoction enjoyed every day by millions of people throughout Mexico.
>
> What amazes me, is that some of the stuff you hear about America from
America? Mexico is in America the last time I checked. You mean the
United States, maybe?
> you Mexicans comes from educated Mexicans. One of the persons who told
> me to post in Spanish was from a university in Guadalajara or Monterrey
> or one of those taco towns. But from these people, you hear "all
Taco taco taco. You are damn proud that Nashville and Memphis are not
taco towns, but BBQ and Bourbon towns, I'm sure. And glad that
Birmingham, Alabama is a grits town. Or are you maybe from one of those
hoagie towns like Philadelphia?
> Americans are fat" and other generalizations like that. If the best of
> you think this way, there is no hope for the rest of you.
The average American is fatter than the average Mexican, for all that's
worth. OTOH, there are millions of slim, trim Americans. My American
ex-girlfriend was quite healthy, for example.
>
> Again, I'm sick of the hate from you. I'm sick of going to other Latin
> American countries and seeing hate in the eyes of people. So, to hell
You reap what you sow. Maybe you are percieving hate because you bring
hate with you.
> with you. Let's not sugar coat this. I've given up. There is no
> reason we should have to put up with these third-world countries. I say
Earth is the third world... In any case, rest assured, the US needs the
rest of the world. IN particular Mexico is your third largest partner.
YOU NEED US; LIVE WITH IT.
> until you develop the atomic-powered taco, that it's time for us to lay
Taco taco taco.
> down the law. Time for you third-world countries to play by our rules.
Huh? Jim, we are not going to go away... THe US will have to learn to
live with Mexico; there's no other way.
> You're not going to like us anymore? Tough! Time for you to get your
> own houses in order. Your mushrooming population, your polluted cities,
> your corrupt governments and police. You can't drop the people you
> can't take care of on us forever.
Then why don't you give us a hand on how to solve our problems instead
of decrying our national cuisines? What about fostering a spirit of
cooperation?
Jordi,
taco-eating Mexican. Yes, I do prefer lobster Thermidor with a nice,
dry white wine.
Jordi Sod
j...@dor.net says in message <328051...@dor.net>:
> I came on here to this pathetic newsgroup and, as a courtesy to you,
> tried to post in Spanish. In response, I had not one but two
> taco-eating Mexicans tell me if I couldn't write better Spanish, to type
> in English. First of all, you all know what I said. But how rude to say
> something like that. I've heard that Mexican people appreciate any
SWhy is it so terribly rude? Not great etiquette, but far less rude than
the response you are giving us now...
> attempt to speak their language, yet I get that inconsiderate response
> from you. For your information, I used to be fluent in Spanish. I
> lived in South America for two years. But after 15 years, you forget a
> lot. If you were trying to offend me, you succeeded. Congrats!
After reading the original thread, I think you overreacted. One or two
persons recommended that you post i english instead of Spanish because
he did not like your writing style. That's hardly a reason to get
incensed.
>
> All this has been a very eye-opening experience to me, one that has
> caused me to lose all faith in Mexicans and other Hispanics. It all
So a single USENET thread on TV commercials caused you to lose all faith
in Mexicans and other Hipanics? Feh. If I judged people like that I
would have lost all faith in everything in the Universe long time ago...
> started with that LADA commercial. Every response I read to that had
> something to do with, "Well, you screw us too." I want you to respond
> directly to that ad! Not bring up something else. How on earth can you
> defend that ad?! I'll right now tell you I'm sorry for any ad over here
PRay tell, who defended the ad in the previous thread? I think there
was a concensus
that the ad is tasteless. Whether it should be censored, that's
another story.
Jordi Sod.
Eddie Lopez
On Wed, 06 Nov 1996 18:51:54 -0800, Jordi Sod
<jo...@mail.internet.com.mx> wrote:
<snip>
>> down the law. Time for you third-world countries to play by our rules.
>
>Huh? Jim, we are not going to go away... THe US will have to learn to
>live with Mexico; there's no other way.
>
>> You're not going to like us anymore? Tough! Time for you to get your
>> own houses in order. Your mushrooming population, your polluted cities,
>> your corrupt governments and police. You can't drop the people you
>> can't take care of on us forever.
>
>Then why don't you give us a hand on how to solve our problems instead
>of decrying our national cuisines? What about fostering a spirit of
>cooperation?
>
>
>
>Jordi,
>taco-eating Mexican. Yes, I do prefer lobster Thermidor with a nice,
>dry white wine.
Jordi, so do I. BTW, I've always thought that the taco, as we know it
here in <America> is an American invention. Hard shell, that is. A
taco in Mexico is usually soft shell, right? Sorta like Chop Suey is
not a Chinese invention, again, American. The list goes on. Just my
two cents worth. Oh, I'm in Ca. where much of America's produce is
grown. I sure would hate to pay 2 dollars for a tomato, so you do
have a point there. I am Mexican-American, born and raised here, but
frequently visit Mexico, (I just got back last night from Tijuana), I
love the country, the people, the "tacos", but hate your corrupted
government. As you know the Mexicans are the masters when it comes to
corruption. Case in point, I'm in the agriculture business, and I
would love to do business with Mexican growers. But once when it was
tried we had to go through so much corruption that I dropped all plans
to buy from there. Heck, it was cheaper to buy in Europe and bring it
in to the US by air than pay off so many "mordidas" to "los oficiales"
in Mexico. It's so sad to see what's happening there. My heart goes
out to the poor there. If only some day you people would come up with
a truly honest political system and prevent your presidents from
taking off with the treasury. Sigh!, pero como dicen los mexicanos,
"asi es la vida, they <always> steal our money, what can we do?"
Anyway, that's it from me, I'm going to Taco Bell. Eddie
Garry Williams
Jim, you're new at this, aren't you? :)
1) If you don't want others to stereotype unto you, then stereotype not unto
others.
2) If you're trolling for a flame, you'll have to do better than that.
3) If you see hate everywhere you go, maybe it's because they hate *you
personally*. This may have something to do with either 1) or 2).
> What amazes me, is that some of the stuff you hear about America from
> you Mexicans comes from educated Mexicans. One of the persons who told
It's amazing what you hear about Mexico coming from "educated" Americans.
For that matter, it's amazing what you hear about the US coming from
"educated" Americans. That's the wonderful thing about this planet: you
can always find someone, somewhere, saying something stupid, 24 hours a
day, 7 days a week, and you never have to look very far.
Have a nice day. :)
-Garry <gdw...@william.salzo.Cary.NC.US>
Jordi Sod
GKI...@postoffice.worldnet.att.net (Eddie Lopez) says in message
<328165a4...@netnews.worldnet.att.net>:
> On Wed, 06 Nov 1996 18:51:54 -0800, Jordi Sod
> <jo...@mail.internet.com.mx> wrote:
[...]
> >taco-eating Mexican. Yes, I do prefer lobster Thermidor with a nice,
> >dry white wine.
> Jordi, so do I. BTW, I've always thought that the taco, as we know it
> here in <America> is an American invention. Hard shell, that is. A
> taco in Mexico is usually soft shell, right? Sorta like Chop Suey is
>
And it is never with ground meat nor Cheddar cheese... Let's just say it
is a far cry from the American concoction.
not a Chinese invention, again, American. The list goes on. Just my
> two cents worth. Oh, I'm in Ca. where much of America's produce is
> grown. I sure would hate to pay 2 dollars for a tomato, so you do
> have a point there. I am Mexican-American, born and raised here, but
> frequently visit Mexico, (I just got back last night from Tijuana), I
> love the country, the people, the "tacos", but hate your corrupted
> government. As you know the Mexicans are the masters when it comes to
So do Mexicans. Now are "the Mexicans" the masters of corruption, or
far more likely, are Mexicans victims of a corrupt system? Besides,
rest assured that there are countries whose corruption makes Mexico's
problems seems like children's play (take, say, Nigeria and probably
Russia). Our corruption problems are very real, but our closeness to
the US makes for exaggerated perceptions by Americans.
> corruption. Case in point, I'm in the agriculture business, and I
> would love to do business with Mexican growers. But once when it was
> tried we had to go through so much corruption that I dropped all plans
> to buy from there. Heck, it was cheaper to buy in Europe and bring it
> in to the US by air than pay off so many "mordidas" to "los oficiales"
> in Mexico. It's so sad to see what's happening there. My heart goes
> out to the poor there. If only some day you people would come up with
> a truly honest political system and prevent your presidents from
> taking off with the treasury. Sigh!, pero como dicen los mexicanos,
> "asi es la vida, they <always> steal our money, what can we do?"
> Anyway, that's it from me, I'm going to Taco Bell. Eddie
Thank you for your good wishes, Eddie. I hope things will get better
for all of us.
Saludos,
Jordi
Dustin Christmann
In article <328051...@dor.net>, <j...@dor.net> wrote:
>I came on here to this pathetic newsgroup and, as a courtesy to you,
>tried to post in Spanish.
If you think that things are pathetic in this newsgroup, you should see
soc.culture.mexican-american. About 10% of its traffic are crossposted BS
about how [Insert ethnic group here] is superior and all other groups are
subhuman beings. In comparison, this newsgroup is relatively informative.
However, it was correct of you to post in Spanish. This is after all,
soc.culture.mexican, and most Mexicans I know speak Spanish.
>In response, I had not one but two taco-eating Mexicans tell me if I couldn't
>write better Spanish, to type in English.
Ignore them. (Besides, how do you know that they eat tacos? Maybe they're
vegetarians.) Some people believe that their purpose in life is get everyone
to conform to their rather narrow Weltanschauung and will rarely have anything
go to say about anything posted on the Internet. Either your margins are
wrong, or your punctuation is wrong, or you're posting to soc.culture.mexican
and your Spanish isn't perfect. What can I say? There's just no pleasing
some people.
It gets even worse if they actually disagree with your subject matter.
This reminds me of a common problem on rec.sport.soccer, namely there's a
huge group of people who read it who take the opinion that there's only one
way in all things soccer, and that's the English way. So naturally, when
one engages in a discussion about Major League Soccer, the new American league,
this a**holes feel the need to tell you the following:
a) MLS is a crap league.
b) Yanks know f*ck all about footy.
c) The name of the game is football, and you Yanks should all be shot for using
the word soccer.
etc.,etc.
Mind you, none of it has to do with the subject at hand. Frankly, life's too
short to waste on supposed soccer experts who don't know about anything outside
of England and wouldn't know a great player like Carlos Hermosillo from Adam.
And the same principle applies here. Ignore the a**holes and don't stoop to
the a**holism.
>First of all, you all know what I said. But how rude to say
>something like that. I've heard that Mexican people appreciate any
>attempt to speak their language, yet I get that inconsiderate response
>from you.
I think that that rule-of-thumb could be applied to most cultures. Incident-
ally, you shouldn't confuse the opinion of a few a**holes with people at-large.
Incidentally, if anyone is wondering why I read this newsgroup, I've been
taking Spanish for several weeks now. I want to practice what I'm learning,
and since I live in Texas, reading soc.culture.mexican seems pretty relevant.
Mi espan~ol es ahora muy malo, pero practico leer (y algunes veces, escribar)
espan~ol con s.c.m. :^)
For your information, I used to be fluent in Spanish. I
>lived in South America for two years. But after 15 years, you forget a
>lot. If you were trying to offend me, you succeeded. Congrats!
I know where you're coming from. I lived in W. Germany from 1986-1988 and
learned German while I lived there. Needless to say, since then my German has
declined appreciably, aber ich kann noch ein Bisschen sprechen, auch wenn es
noch nicht die Sprache von Goethe ist.
Frankly, I'm snipping the rest of your article because, frankly, it's an intel-
lectually weak bit of diatribe. But hey, at least they won't flame you for
your Spanish.
--
Thanx, | "NBC sucks."
Dustin R. Christmann | -- Alexi Lalas
University of Texas '94 |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
j...@dor.net
Jordi Sod wrote:
I'm amazed by some of the naive gringos who responded to my post.
> USENET has more than its share of hatemongers; in any case, rest assured
Wrong, taco breath. I'm not a hatemonger. You all are the hateful
people.
> Gathering any conclusions on the Mexican people from a LADA commercial
> is very naive.
I don't think so. This commercial has portrayed American businessmen to
be evil. You won't see any ad in the U.S. that portrays Mexicans as
evil. Americans would know right off that this type of ad would offend
people. It wouldn't even make it off the board. IF it did go on the
air, there would be such an outcry from the Hispanics in this country it
would be off in a day. In Mexico, on the other hand, this ad runs and
no one so much as raises an eyebrow. That IMO tells a lot. I don't
mind lighthearted poking fun at one another. I saw a funny skit on
Univision the other day about a goofy gringo and was not one bit
offended.
> > butt. Any Mexicans coming over the border, let 'em have it. This would
> > put a stop to the immigration problem and pronto! And our nation would
>
> And create riots in the Southwest like you've never seen before. And
> recieve condemnation from the international community. And ruin your
> trade with Latin America.
We've handled riots before. Are these people Americans or aren't they?
Why would they riot for us enforcing our borders? Condemnation? We get
it every day from everybody! So what's new. People are always going to
condemn us. People said we'd be condemned if we didn't give away the
Panama Canal. We gave away the Panama Canal, and what did it get us?
Yeah, boy, we're really popular in Latin America these days. Really did
a lot for us. We hold the cards in the trade business. I'd for once
love to see us realize this and get tough. Latin America would come
begging to us after a while.
> > save billions of dollars in money we now spend to support these people.
>
> OF course, now you'd need to pay $5/lb for California grapes, now that
> there'd be no cheap labor to pick them. Have you ever thought how much
> money you are saving each time you go to the supermarket and buy produce
> elaborated by immigrant hands?
It wouldn't kill us to pay a few cents more for groceries. We had
grapes before Mexican immigrants.
> Just what is pathetic about our culture? Your attitude, that's what's
> pathetic.
It's a culture of no middle class, corruption, pollution, dictatorships,
etc...... Why does the PRI win every time? It's the same all over
Latin America. Why doesn't Canada have the problems you do? Different
culture. How do you defend the terrible working conditions your poor
have to endure? THAT'S why your labor is so cheap! We have standards
over here.
>
> > hell with you. Think about it: there is nothing in the world we could
> > do to make Latin America like us. Not a damn thing. Tell me what we
>
> Why would you want to do that? MOre importantly, why would Latin
> America want to be more like the US? Sure, we would like to have a
> better economy, less corruption, etc., but that does not make the US the
> paragon for progress. I'd rather have LAtin America become more like
> Spain.
Make Latin America like us (feel good toward us), not BE like us. There
is nothing we could do to make you like us. Panama Canal good example.
Are we any more popular in Panama today? Nope.
>
> The average American is fatter than the average Mexican, for all that's
> worth.
I don't buy that. There are plenty of fat Mexicans. I would say even
more.
> > Again, I'm sick of the hate from you. I'm sick of going to other Latin
> > American countries and seeing hate in the eyes of people. So, to hell
>
> You reap what you sow. Maybe you are percieving hate because you bring
> hate with you.
I bring no hate. Just a good dose of REALITY.
>
> > down the law. Time for you third-world countries to play by our rules.
>
> Huh? Jim, we are not going to go away... THe US will have to learn to
> live with Mexico; there's no other way.
You got that the other way around.
> > You're not going to like us anymore? Tough! Time for you to get your
> > own houses in order. Your mushrooming population, your polluted cities,
> > your corrupt governments and police. You can't drop the people you
> > can't take care of on us forever.
>
> Then why don't you give us a hand on how to solve our problems instead
> of decrying our national cuisines?
It's hopeless, that's why. Better to enforce our border and keep the
problems over there. And you're culture, too. I would start by making
birth control readily available to control your population.
I still haven't seen anyone here express outrage about the LADA
commercial. And I don't expect to. Because you agree with the
commercial. If I saw one Mexican here condemn that commercial, I would
once again have some hope. I have sent a copy of that ad to my
congressman, by the way. He voted for NAFTA. Thought he might like to
see how Mexico is "playing ball" in this open market. I'm praying for
the day that we get out of this NAFTA.
Eddie Lopez
On Thu, 07 Nov 1996 18:19:31 -0800, Jordi Sod
<jo...@mail.internet.com.mx> wrote:
>GKI...@postoffice.worldnet.att.net (Eddie Lopez) says in message
><328165a4...@netnews.worldnet.att.net>:
>
>
>> On Wed, 06 Nov 1996 18:51:54 -0800, Jordi Sod
>> <jo...@mail.internet.com.mx> wrote:
>
>[...]
>
<snip>
>is a far cry from the American concoction.
Oh yes, give me barbacoa tacos anytime!
>
>
>> government. As you know the Mexicans are the masters when it comes to
>
>So do Mexicans. Now are "the Mexicans" the masters of corruption, or
>far more likely, are Mexicans victims of a corrupt system?
Sorry, I should have said "some" or "many" certainly not "all" or
"the" Mexicans.
> Besides,
>rest assured that there are countries whose corruption makes Mexico's
>problems seems like children's play (take, say, Nigeria and probably
>Russia). Our corruption problems are very real, but our closeness to
>the US makes for exaggerated perceptions by Americans.
Exactly, just how much does the average American see of corruption in
Russia or Nigeria. Because of our geographic position, and our
closeness, makes Mexican corruption more known and experienced. For
example, ever been stopped for a minor traffic violation in Tijuana?
See what happens. And remember, Tijuana is the most visited city in
the world, so you can see that there has to be a lot of exposure to
bad relations between Americans and Mexicans.
>
>>. Sigh!, pero como dicen los mexicanos,
>> "asi es la vida, they <always> steal our money, what can we do?"
>> Anyway, that's it from me, I'm going to Taco Bell. Eddie
>
>Thank you for your good wishes, Eddie. I hope things will get better
>for all of us.
Well, hopefully for you, I have no hopes now that Slick Willy is back.
But then again, there's the year 2000, when I will have hope, 'cause
the Slick one will be history. Unless, of course, he gets impeached
before then.
Adios, amigo. Eddie
>
>Saludos,
>
>Jordi
Larry Miller [DT]
j...@dor.net wrote:
: Wrong, taco breath. I'm not a hatemonger. You all are the hateful
: people.
Lovely. Hope you aren't trying to be taken seriously. :>
: > Gathering any conclusions on the Mexican people from a LADA commercial
: > is very naive.
: I don't think so. This commercial has portrayed American businessmen to
: be evil.
I must confess-- the first time I saw that commercial, I honest-to-god
thought it was an ad by a U.S. phone company using a publicity agency with
a weird sense of humor. Sad to say, the personality played by the actor
didn't seem at all out of line... :>
Jordi Sod
j...@dor.net says in message <3282E6...@dor.net>:
> Jordi Sod wrote:
>
> I'm amazed by some of the naive gringos who responded to my post.
Why, because they were foolish enough to waste their time answering your post?
>
> > USENET has more than its share of hatemongers; in any case, rest assured
>
> Wrong, taco breath. I'm not a hatemonger. You all are the hateful
> people.
OK, let's analyze this sentence. First of all, I did not claim above that you were a hatemonger; I simply pointed to the higher-than-average number of hatemongers in USENET.
"Taco breath". Today I had the following things for breakfast:
-2 scrambled eggs with ketchup
-1.5 slices of bread with blueberry mermelade
-coffee
-far too many oats + nuts + chocolate cookies
-no tacos
How do you account for my taco breath? No, there are no taco flavored breath fresheners in Mexico, sorry. Is "taco breath" a compliment or not? If not, then I may have some reasons to suspect you are an undercover hatemonger.
>
> > Gathering any conclusions on the Mexican people from a LADA commercial
> > is very naive.
>
> I don't think so. This commercial has portrayed American businessmen to
> be evil. You won't see any ad in the U.S. that portrays Mexicans as
> evil. Americans would know right off that this type of ad would offend
> people. It wouldn't even make it off the board. IF it did go on the
> air, there would be such an outcry from the Hispanics in this country it
> would be off in a day. In Mexico, on the other hand, this ad runs and
> no one so much as raises an eyebrow. That IMO tells a lot. I don't
Have you been in Mexico and asked people what their opinion was? I found the ad offensive. OTOH, the ad is so bad that it reflects more on TELMEX's lack of taste than on Mexicans' perceptions of the US.
> mind lighthearted poking fun at one another. I saw a funny skit on
> Univision the other day about a goofy gringo and was not one bit
> offended.
Good. Now, I'm offended that you are condemning more than 90 million people because people in this newsgroup do not give that stupid ad as much importance as you do (even when they have agreed it was a bad ad).
> > And create riots in the Southwest like you've never seen before. And
> > recieve condemnation from the international community. And ruin your
> > trade with Latin America.
>
> We've handled riots before. Are these people Americans or aren't they?
> Why would they riot for us enforcing our borders? Condemnation? We get
Because Mexican-Americans would be discriminated as well. Everybody with a brown skin would turn into a second-class citizen. Because they have relatives whose lives would be in jeopardy.
> it every day from everybody! So what's new. People are always going to
> condemn us. People said we'd be condemned if we didn't give away the
> Panama Canal. We gave away the Panama Canal, and what did it get us?
Jim, the US took Panama away from Colombia and then built a canal for its own profit. The US is returning the land where the canal is back to its rightful owners after having enjoyed the profits for some 100 years. The US has already achieved its objectives with regards to the Panama canal. As far as future use goes, whether it is in American hands or in Panama's American puppet government is irrelevant. The US is winning diplomatically by returning it.
> Yeah, boy, we're really popular in Latin America these days. Really did
> a lot for us. We hold the cards in the trade business. I'd for once
> love to see us realize this and get tough. Latin America would come
> begging to us after a while.
It is in the US's interests to have a prosperous Latin America that can buy its products. Trade goes both ways. Besides, Lat. Am. wouldn't come begging. It would seek become a Japanese or European region of influence.
>
> > > save billions of dollars in money we now spend to support these people.
> >
> > OF course, now you'd need to pay $5/lb for California grapes, now that
> > there'd be no cheap labor to pick them. Have you ever thought how much
> > money you are saving each time you go to the supermarket and buy produce
> > elaborated by immigrant hands?
>
> It wouldn't kill us to pay a few cents more for groceries. We had
> grapes before Mexican immigrants.
A few more dollars, you mean. You don't realize that the money you're losing on uncollected taxes is offset by the gains you make at the counter.
>
> > Just what is pathetic about our culture? Your attitude, that's what's
> > pathetic.
>
> It's a culture of no middle class, corruption, pollution, dictatorships,
Wrong. There is a middle class. Corruption? I guess you haven't been to Louisiana lately. Pollution? Visit a Superfund site near your home. Visit Rocky Flats. Dictatorships? I guess you haven't read the newspapers in the last 10 years. Most of Latin America has democratically elected governments.
> etc...... Why does the PRI win every time? It's the same all over
The Pri doesn't win every time (ask people in Guanajuato, Chihuahua or Baja California), and will win even less in the future. Mexico is not yet a full fledged democracy, but is improving nonetheless.
> Latin America. Why doesn't Canada have the problems you do? Different
No it ain't. Why doesn't Canada have the problems we do? Because it has other problems (and didn't have half its territory stolen by greedy neighbors). At least don't have seceding provinces over here.
> culture. How do you defend the terrible working conditions your poor
> have to endure? THAT'S why your labor is so cheap! We have standards
We don't. LAbor is so cheap because of ECONOMICS. Have you ever heard of the law of supply and demand? There is a large supply of labor in Mexico. Labor prices are low as a result.
> over here.
And we don't? Sure, labor conditions aren't so great, but they are improving as well.
>
> >
> > > hell with you. Think about it: there is nothing in the world we could
> > > do to make Latin America like us. Not a damn thing. Tell me what we
> >
> > Why would you want to do that? MOre importantly, why would Latin
> > America want to be more like the US? Sure, we would like to have a
> > better economy, less corruption, etc., but that does not make the US the
> > paragon for progress. I'd rather have LAtin America become more like
> > Spain.
>
> Make Latin America like us (feel good toward us), not BE like us. There
> is nothing we could do to make you like us. Panama Canal good example.
> Are we any more popular in Panama today? Nope.
Er... do you remember you invaded Panama and murdered droves of their citizens? You had to give back the canal not because of your infinite goodness, but because you had signed a treaty with Panama long time ago. Pray tell, do you think the Chinese are going to LOVE the U.K. for turning Hong Kong over to them? Hardly; the U.K is simply keeping its word.
>
> >
> > The average American is fatter than the average Mexican, for all that's
> > worth.
>
> I don't buy that. There are plenty of fat Mexicans. I would say even
> more.
Not according to the articles I've read on the topic (New Scientist, Sci. American, Time, etc.) Industrialized countries have greater obesity than non-industrialized ones, period. For a sobering look at your own country's waistline, check:
http://pathfinder.com/@@Pa9b8QYAv0FpTdKe/time/magazine/domestic/1995/950116/950116.cover.html
"FAT TIMES -- What health craze? Thanks to too much food and too little sweat,
Americans are heavier than ever"
I guess you're judging from MExicans living in the US. Those folks follow a different diet than people back home, making them fatter. There are fascinating cases of people with the same genetic makeup, where differences in diet make for huge differences. MExican and American Pima indians, for example. Mexican Pimas are trim, American ones are REALLY FAT.. Why? The mMexican ones work long hours in the fields and have a traditional diet.
>
> > > Again, I'm sick of the hate from you. I'm sick of going to other Latin
> > > American countries and seeing hate in the eyes of people. So, to hell
> >
> > You reap what you sow. Maybe you are percieving hate because you bring
> > hate with you.
>
> I bring no hate. Just a good dose of REALITY.
Just what is the REALITY you are bringing? You believe that all Latin Americans hate the US without exception. That's MYTH, not REALITY. Latin America has a love-hate relationship with the US.
> > Huh? Jim, we are not going to go away... THe US will have to learn to
> > live with Mexico; there's no other way.
>
> You got that the other way around.
Mexico has learned to live with the US.
> > Then why don't you give us a hand on how to solve our problems instead
> > of decrying our national cuisines?
>
> It's hopeless, that's why. Better to enforce our border and keep the
No, it's not hopeless. You know too little and are way too negative about Latin America to make such a statement. Latin America is doing a hell of a lot better than you are giving it credit for. It economy is now largely deregualated, and showing positive results, for starters.
> problems over there. And you're culture, too. I would start by making
Culture. What, specifically, is wrong with Latin America's culture? At least we don't have Scopes trials here.
> birth control readily available to control your population.
It is readily available. There are education campaigns all the time. And the birth rate HAS GONE DOWN DRAMATICALLY in the last few years. Our growth is moderating.
>
> I still haven't seen anyone here express outrage about the LADA
> commercial. And I don't expect to. Because you agree with the
> commercial. If I saw one Mexican here condemn that commercial, I would
NO, I DONT. DON'T PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH. I HATED THAT AD. WHEN OTHER PHONE COMPANIES FINALLY COME IN, I'LL GO FOR THE ONE THAT OFFERS BETTER SERVICE, NOT THE ONE THAT IS "MEXICAN".
> once again have some hope. I have sent a copy of that ad to my
> congressman, by the way. He voted for NAFTA. Thought he might like to
> see how Mexico is "playing ball" in this open market. I'm praying for
> the day that we get out of this NAFTA.
The good thing is that the ad was paid by the Telephone company, not the country. Get it? It's a lousy attempt at keeping costumers, that's it.
Jordi Sod
P.S. Just what's wrong with authentic Mexican tacos?
Alejandro Parra
Estimado Jim:
Hola. Soy un estudiante mexicano de posgrado en la universidad estatal de N.Y.
y quisiera dar algunas opiniones al respecto de tu mensaje.
Como en este mundo no todo es color blanco o negro, en algunas cosas de las que
dices estoy de acuerdo, y en otras no.
En primer lugar estoy de acuerdo en que en Mexico y tal vez en otros paises de
Latinoamerica tenemos un problema cultural serio. Nos vemos a nosotros mismos
como las eternas victimas de paises del primer mundo. "Los gringos nos robaron
nuestro territorio", "Los franceses nos invadieron", etc...son frases de uso
comun en la cultura mexicana. Pero el problema cultural es tan grave que la
gente no se pone a pensar en las circunstancias en las que ocurrieron las
famosas invasiones y ocupaciones territoriales. Cualquiera que le eche una
ojeada a la historia se dara cuenta de que la triste verdad es que los
mexicanos estabamos mas ocupados peleandonos entre nosotros y cada politico en
el poder poniendo sus propios intereses antes que los del pais (tal como sucede
ahora), que dichas invasiones fueron cosa facil para los que las perpetraron.
Tambien es una verguenza para nuestro pais que mexicanos que no encontraron
posibilidades de progreso en su propia tierra crucen ilegalmente la frontera de
E.E.U.U. en busca de mejores oportunidades.
Finalmente, me averguenza personalmente el anuncio televisivo que mencionas,
asi como el hecho de que haya gente que apoye la existencia de publicidad de
esta naturaleza ofensiva y estereotipada. Nuestro problema cultural nos lleva a
hacer barbaridades como esa y muchas mas, como cometer la groseria de decirte
que hables bien espa%ol o mejor ni lo intentes. Acepta mis disculpas como un
"embajador" de Mexico en E.E.U.U. Creo que a pesar de todo, poco a poco estamos
cambiando y madurando como pais, ya vendran tiempos mejores.
Por otro lado, hay otras cosas en las que no estoy de acuerdo contigo y que
tambien necesito decirte.
En primer lugar, mencionas que Mexico tiene que escoger entre hacer negocios
con E.E.U.U. o con Cuba. Esta actitud, junto con la famosa ley Helms-Burton es
una muestra de la arrogancia cultural que padece tu pais. En general pareciera
que lo que no es estadounidense o no es como lo estadounidense, no es bueno.
Pero desafortunadamente la cultura y sociedad estadounidenses tienen tambien
muchos problemas y defectos, por lo que frecuentemente pecan al unicamente
ver la paja en el ojo ajeno.
Tu mismo muestras este egocentrismo cultural al escribir tus mensajes.
Toma por ejemplo una de tus frases: "Time for you third-world countries to play
by our rules".
Si esa frase no te parece ofensiva entonces no se de que estamos hablando.
Esta actitud de prepotencia va aparejada con un intervencionismo sin limite en
los asuntos externos de otros paises "en nombre de la libertad".
Como algunos ejemplos de lo anterior te puedo mencionar estos: la invasion a
Granada y Panama, el bombardeo a Libia, la presencia de agentes de la CIA en todo
el mundo, la manipulacion de la economia de otros paises, el terror nuclear en el
que tu pais y la URSS nos tuvieron sumergidos a los demas habitantes del planeta,
etc...Todas estas son muestras de algo llamado "imperialismo yankee".
Y esa arrogancia cultural e intervencionismo es con los que Mexico ha tenido que
lidiar a traves de su historia. Asi que nuestro complejo "odio-amor" hacia los
E.E.U.U. tambien es en parte consecuencia de esta actitud imperialista.
Qusiera finalizar diciendo que tanto tu pais como el mio estan destinados a
permanecer fuertemente enlazados el resto de su historia, pues por fortuna o
por desgracia no nos podemos cambiar de lugar en el planeta. Asi que lo mejor
que podemos hacer es respetarnos mutuamente y tratar de colaborar en la resolucion
de nuestros problemas comunes.
Cordialmente,
Alejandro Parra
al...@carbo.chem.binghamton.edu
Alejandro Parra
Carlos Murillo-Sanchez
In article <328165a4...@netnews.worldnet.att.net>
>I am Mexican-American, born and raised here, but
>frequently visit Mexico, (I just got back last night from Tijuana), I
>love the country, the people, the "tacos", but hate your corrupted
1) We also hate our government. Believe me, that is painful to admit in
front of foreigners. But government in Mexico disgraces the whole
country. And this decade it seems to be getting to the century--low
level.
2) No, please don't generalize; not "the mexicans are the masters..."
but rather, those who hold the power, anywhere. I take it that you've
never been outside of Mexico and the US.
>My heart goes out to the poor there.
So does mine.
>If only some day you people would come up with>a truly honest political
>system and prevent your presidents from taking off with the treasury
There is _NO HONEST POLITICAL SYSTEM IN THE WORLD_. You can only hope for a
political system to be _BALANCED_ , meaning that enough dog-watch is
done among enemies that no one expects to infringe the law and live to tell.
There may be good constitutions, laws, etc. but ink-on-paper is one thing,
reality is another ... the US doesn't fare too well in this respect either,
except perhaps on the single "technicality" that vote-counting is not faked:
Some of the dynamics in the US election process are questionable with
respect to "freedom to make up your own mind" when it comes to media
handling / using / abusing ...
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carlos Murillo-Sanchez ce...@cornell.edu
600 Warren Rd. Apt. 7-3E 356 Rhodes Hall - Engineering & Theory Center
Ithaca, NY 14850 Cornell University, Ithaca, NY 14853-3801
(607) 257-8545 (607) 254-8817
Eddie Lopez
>>government. As you know the Mexicans are the masters when it comes to
>>corruption.
>
>1) We also hate our government. Believe me, that is painful to admit in
> front of foreigners. But government in Mexico disgraces the whole
> country. And this decade it seems to be getting to the century--low
> level.
Change it! But you can't because the wealthy hold the power. And the
key to holding power is to keep the people poor. Because the poor
have only one thing on their minds. To feed themselves!
>
>2) No, please don't generalize; not "the mexicans are the masters..."
> but rather, those who hold the power, anywhere. I take it that you've
> never been outside of Mexico and the US.
Travelled thruout Canada, been to UK twice in last 6 yrs. Spain in
1994. Puerto Rico during 500th Anniversary (1992), (with side trip to
St. Maarten), Costa Rica (a latin paradise), Brazil, (Rio). The
Phillipines (during Marcos' regime) Japan and Gibraltor (does it
count?) Every major city in Mexico, tourist and non-tourist, and of
course, the good ole USA. 26 states. (every major city except
Chicago). Will be going to Peru and Portugal in 1997. No, I'm not in
the travel industry.
>
>>My heart goes out to the poor there.
>
>So does mine.
>
>>If only some day you people would come up with>a truly honest political
>>system and prevent your presidents from taking off with the treasury
>
>There is _NO HONEST POLITICAL SYSTEM IN THE WORLD_. You can only hope for a
>political system to be _BALANCED_ , meaning that enough dog-watch is
>done among enemies that no one expects to infringe the law and live to tell.
>There may be good constitutions, laws, etc. but ink-on-paper is one thing,
>reality is another ... the US doesn't fare too well in this respect either,
Tell me of one US president living in exile after robbing the
treasury. Just one. I realize Mexico is not alone. Look at Marcos.
Of course our constitution is ink-on-paper. And maybe some laws
should be changed, and some are not perfect, (to some people) but you
have to agree that it beats the heck out of Mexico's Napoleonic laws.
Can you imagine that in this century in Mexico it's still <guilty
until proven innocent?> Amazing!!
>except perhaps on the single "technicality" that vote-counting is not faked:
>Some of the dynamics in the US election process are questionable with
>respect to "freedom to make up your own mind" when it comes to media
>handling / using / abuse
Please explain. Couldn't figure this one out.
>
Lastly, Carlos, may I repeat, I am proud of being Mexican-American
(and my native American Indian heritage). We were here first,
remember? I love Mexico and its people, but I love the USA first and
foremost. Lets wish the best for both. Like the song goes "Viva
Mexico and Viva America". Eddie
CHUNG WU
This is the internet, if we weren't rude nasty psychopaths out to insult each other as severly as possible, it just wouldn't be the net.
Francisco J. Lozano
Dear, sir. I appreciate your "courtesy" of shearing your socio-political
opinions with us, but I do not think you are seeing the whole complexity
of the situation. Furthermore, you are being emotionally unfair with
not only Mexico, but the rest of hispanoamerica. Not to mention American
people with connections with these countries.
Seems that for some reason you have a grouch, and you are behaving in the
same ani-foreignism that Mexico had in the late 70's and early 80's.
I do not appreciate all the mindless and stereotyped remarks that you
posted in your message. Please restrain to either post the in this group,
or offend people making generalizations.
Thanks.
On Wed, 6 Nov 1996 j...@dor.net wrote:
> I came on here to this pathetic newsgroup and, as a courtesy to you,
> tried to post in Spanish. In response, I had not one but two
> taco-eating Mexicans tell me if I couldn't write better Spanish, to type
> in English. First of all, you all know what I said. But how rude to say
> something like that. I've heard that Mexican people appreciate any
> attempt to speak their language, yet I get that inconsiderate response
> from you. For your information, I used to be fluent in Spanish. I
> lived in South America for two years. But after 15 years, you forget a
> lot. If you were trying to offend me, you succeeded. Congrats!
>
> All this has been a very eye-opening experience to me, one that has
> caused me to lose all faith in Mexicans and other Hispanics. It all
> started with that LADA commercial. Every response I read to that had
> something to do with, "Well, you screw us too." I want you to respond
> directly to that ad! Not bring up something else. How on earth can you
> defend that ad?! I'll right now tell you I'm sorry for any ad over here
> that has stereotyped Mexicans in a negative way. You sorry people are
> too full of tacos to extend to me the same courtesy. Also mentioned in
> defense of that ad were our politicians who "deal cocaine," Proposition
> 187 (or whatever the hell the number is), our affairs in Panama, the
> Helms-Burton, etc. I loved the cocaine one. I believe there was also
> the requisite reference to that trouble maker Che Guevara, who all Latin
> American youngsters are in love with.
>
>
> In my opinion, the time has come to quit taking crap from Mexico. We
> need military bases along the border, and by gosh, start kicking some
> butt. Any Mexicans coming over the border, let 'em have it. This would
> put a stop to the immigration problem and pronto! And our nation would
> save billions of dollars in money we now spend to support these people.
> It could cost a billion dollars a year to run those bases, but we'd
> still come out ahead. If you could handle your own affairs, it wouldn't
> cost us a cent. Canada can take care of themselves, and we have no
> problem with them. The problem with you is your pathetic culture.
>
> Can you imagine the treatment Americans would get in your famous jails
> if we broke laws like you do? If Mexico wants to do business in Cuba,
> get the hell out of the U.S. Make a choice. We hold the cards, you
> Mexicans. Make Prop. 187 a national law. Get the welfare abusers out
> of here. No more crap. Tell me one reason we should support illegal
> Mexican immigrants -- without making reference to Che. There is no good
> reason.
>
> What, you say? This would make us look bad in Latin America??? They
> wouldn't like us any more??? Hey, guess what -- you don't like us now,
> you didn't like us before, and you won't like us in the future!!! So to
> hell with you. Think about it: there is nothing in the world we could
> do to make Latin America like us. Not a damn thing. Tell me what we
> could do? I'm sick of this crap. I love watching TV Azteca news and
> that Javier Alatorre and watching him tremble with hate as he talks
> about the U.S. As long as Mexico is not a military threat to us, I say
> time to stop taking crap. What are you going to do, bomb us with
> tacos? I don't think so! Besides, we'd eat them as fast as you could
> shoot them! Tacos ain't going to work!
>
> What amazes me, is that some of the stuff you hear about America from
> you Mexicans comes from educated Mexicans. One of the persons who told
> me to post in Spanish was from a university in Guadalajara or Monterrey
> or one of those taco towns. But from these people, you hear "all
> Americans are fat" and other generalizations like that. If the best of
> you think this way, there is no hope for the rest of you.
>
> Again, I'm sick of the hate from you. I'm sick of going to other Latin
> American countries and seeing hate in the eyes of people. So, to hell
> with you. Let's not sugar coat this. I've given up. There is no
> reason we should have to put up with these third-world countries. I say
> until you develop the atomic-powered taco, that it's time for us to lay
> down the law. Time for you third-world countries to play by our rules.
Eddie Lopez
>>government. As you know the Mexicans are the masters when it comes to
>>corruption.
>
>1) We also hate our government. Believe me, that is painful to admit in
> front of foreigners. But government in Mexico disgraces the whole
> country. And this decade it seems to be getting to the century--low
> level.
Change it! But you can't because the wealthy hold the power. And the
key to holding power is to keep the people poor. That way the poor
Can you imagine that we're almost in the 21st century and in Mexico
Carlos Murillo-Sanchez
In article <32843e43...@netnews.worldnet.att.net> GKI...@postoffice.worldnet.att.net (Eddie Lopez) writes:
>On Sat, 9 Nov 1996 01:47:59, ce...@cornell.edu (Carlos
>Murillo-Sanchez) wrote:
>>2) No, please don't generalize; not "the mexicans are the masters..."
>> but rather, those who hold the power, anywhere. I take it that you've
>> never been outside of Mexico and the US.
>Travelled thruout Canada, been to UK twice in last 6 yrs. Spain in
>1994. Puerto Rico during 500th Anniversary (1992), (with side trip to
>St. Maarten), Costa Rica (a latin paradise), Brazil, (Rio). The
>Phillipines (during Marcos' regime) Japan and Gibraltor (does it
>count?) Every major city in Mexico, tourist and non-tourist, and of
>course, the good ole USA. 26 states. (every major city except
>Chicago). Will be going to Peru and Portugal in 1997. No, I'm not in
>the travel industry.
You have traveled more than I thought. Did you see any corruption in
these countries? I have, in most of them.
>>>If only some day you people would come up with>a truly honest political
>>>system and prevent your presidents from taking off with the treasury
>>
>>There is _NO HONEST POLITICAL SYSTEM IN THE WORLD_. You can only hope for a
>>political system to be _BALANCED_ , meaning that enough dog-watch is
>>done among enemies that no one expects to infringe the law and live to tell.
>>There may be good constitutions, laws, etc. but ink-on-paper is one thing,
>>reality is another ... the US doesn't fare too well in this respect either,
>Tell me of one US president living in exile after robbing the
>treasury. Just one. I realize Mexico is not alone. Look at Marcos.
Robbing is old-fashioned. Abuse of power is "in". Watergate?
Besides, there are other ways of taking advantage of your position
to make money (Ask Clinton). Not that american presidents specialize in
this, though; they are watched every second by their political enemies.
(though some escape unharmed; remember irangate? )
That is also what I mean by "balanced" above. What I meant about
the US not faring too well is that the dynamics around the american
congress are actually pretty twisted. Special interest groups. Money
everywhere. Mafia links. The funny part is, just like in Mexico, people
know about this, but since it is difficult to prove legally (no fools, they)
then people choose not to pursue those matters further.
>Of course our constitution is ink-on-paper. And maybe some laws
>should be changed, and some are not perfect, (to some people) but you
>have to agree that it beats the heck out of Mexico's Napoleonic laws.
>Can you imagine that in this century in Mexico it's still <guilty
>until proven innocent?> Amazing!!
This is incorrect. Through the trial process, however, it is
_technically_ the burden of the defense to prove innocence, meaning
for example that if you are charged with murder, then the state
has the legal power to force you to defend yourself; you will be declared
in contempt of the court if you don't. We don't have a fifth ammendment
(or is it the first ammendment? I forget.)
Of course, the public ministry (sort of like the DA) must also prove
that the defendant is guilty; it's not like they can accuse someone,
then not present a proof and expect that the judge will convict the
defendant. It doesn't mean either that if the defense didn't do a good job,
you will necessarily be convicted; judges are supposed to yield verdicts
that take poor performance by the defendant into account.
That people are guilty until proven innocent in Mexico is a very
common misconception among foreigners. In fact, at least in
writing, the mexican judicial system is very modern. It was
inspired by many true-and-tried systems, the US system among them.
This also applies to our constitution. Ink-on-paper, it is one
of the better-written constitutions available even now. It gives
you specific rights like those in the US constitution. Believe me,
if the mexican government worked the way the constitution specifies,
Mexico would be heaven. The same can be said about most of the
legal codex: the civil codex, the judicial codex, the labor codex
are all very well written.
Let's not talk about what goes on in reality, because we all know;
it will just make all of us sad. My point is that most laws in Mexico are
actually excellent. Enforcement is another thing.
>>except perhaps on the single "technicality" that vote-counting is not faked:
>>Some of the dynamics in the US election process are questionable with
>>respect to "freedom to make up your own mind" when it comes to media
>>handling / using / abuse
>Please explain. Couldn't figure this one out.
Oh, I could try to do a speech on this but I'd just be repeating what
Chomsky has said time after time. I have some interviews of him
on public radio. Email me if you have any interest on that matter.
>Lastly, Carlos, may I repeat, I am proud of being Mexican-American
>(and my native American Indian heritage). We were here first,
>remember? I love Mexico and its people, but I love the USA first and
>foremost. Lets wish the best for both. Like the song goes "Viva
>Mexico and Viva America". Eddie
Yes, let's hope that Mexico finds its way to true democracy. Mexico
deserves better. And let's hope that the current US political struggle
doesn't result in more power for less people, as has been the trend.
The US doesn't deserve that after a long tradition of freedom.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Victor M. Martinez
Eddie Lopez <GKI...@postoffice.worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>remember? I love Mexico and its people, but I love the USA first and
>foremost. Lets wish the best for both. Like the song goes "Viva
>Mexico and Viva America". Eddie
Ay muchacho... que no sabes que en Latinoamerica la palabra "America" no
se refiere a tu pais? Para nosotros "America" es lo que para ti es
"The Americas". Creeme, esa cancion no esta diciendo "Vivan los EUA"...
Yo soy Americano, mi cuate Daniel (Colombia) es Americano, mi amigo
Chris (Colorado) es Americano, la guaperrima Ceci (Nicaragua) es Americana.
Get it?
Saludos.
--
Victor M. Martinez, Jr. | The University of Texas at Austin
mar...@che.utexas.edu | Department of Chemical Engineering
http://www.che.utexas.edu/~martiv | "What do they think I am... an engineer?"
>>> It is a matter of intelligence, so your opinion is irrelevant <<<
Victor M. Martinez
But it *is* a crappy league, every single football fan agrees (even my
US friends).
;-)
>b) Yanks know f*ck all about footy.
There is also a consensus here... :)
>c) The name of the game is football, and you Yanks should all be shot for using
>the word soccer.
Let's not get radical here. It is called football in every single country in
the world except the US. If you guys want to call it something else it's your
business, not mine.
>of England and wouldn't know a great player like Carlos Hermosillo from Adam.
Carlos Hermosillo a *great* player? Yeah right... He's good, but he's no
Romario...
>I know where you're coming from. I lived in W. Germany from 1986-1988 and
>learned German while I lived there. Needless to say, since then my German has
At least you learned some, my good friend Chris lived in Germany for 4
years and didn't learn more than "Ich moechte einen Bier trinken bitte".
>Frankly, I'm snipping the rest of your article because, frankly, it's an intel-
>lectually weak bit of diatribe. But hey, at least they won't flame you for
>your Spanish.
I agree... :)
Regards.
Eddie Lopez
On 10 Nov 1996 17:18:11 GMT, mar...@bullwinkle.che.utexas.edu (Victor
M. Martinez) wrote:
>Eddie Lopez <GKI...@postoffice.worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>>remember? I love Mexico and its people, but I love the USA first and
>>foremost. Lets wish the best for both. Like the song goes "Viva
>>Mexico and Viva America". Eddie
>
>Ay muchacho... que no sabes que en Latinoamerica la palabra "America" no
>se refiere a tu pais? Para nosotros "America" es lo que para ti es
>"The Americas". Creeme, esa cancion no esta diciendo "Vivan los EUA"...
>Yo soy Americano, mi cuate Daniel (Colombia) es Americano, mi amigo
>Chris (Colorado) es Americano, la guaperrima Ceci (Nicaragua) es Americana.
>Get it?
Got it, I'll take 50 lashes with a wet noodle. But hey, when I first
heard it, (in the US) oh maybe 50 yrs ago or so, do you think an 8 yr
old paid much attention to the exact translation? And besides you can
go <anywhere> in the world, and if you say you're from America, they
know it as the EEUU, right? Sure, I know America is the Hemishphere,
N and S continents, but when an eight year old heard those words for
the first time, all he heard was Mexico and the US. Can we pretend,
for friendship sake that it means the US? Naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah. But
in any case, thanks for the lesson. From now on it's AMERICA, THE
CONTINENT! ok? Hasta luego, Amigo, Eduardo
>
>Saludos.
Kathy S. de Cano
Hi, Dustin.
Something in your article caught my eye. Being a taco-loving vegetarian,
I just had to clear up a misconception you have. Tacos do not
necessarily have to be made with meat. A taco is just about anything
edible rolled into a tortilla. Some of my favorites:
tacos de rajas (strips of roasted chile poblano in a sauce of cheese,
cream, and corn kernels - delicious!)
tacos de hongos (mushroom tacos seasoned with epazote, especially good
with salsa verde)
taquitos (rolled and deep fried) de queso oaxaca (a delicious string
cheese originally from Oaxaca) or taquitos de queso fresco (a delicious,
unaged cheese)
tacos de frijol (bean tacos, great with cotija cheese [aged, somewhat
dry, and crumbly] and salsa de chile de árbol)
taquitos de requesón (hard to explain in English; kind of a very small
curd cottage cheese; these are great with shredded carrot inside, the
whole thing deep-fried and then covered with a fresh green sauce)
"no que no" - cheese and nopal (cactus) tacos
tacos de queso fundido - cheese (manchego, chihuahua, or oaxaca) melted
in a little clay pot; meat lovers often like chorizo crumbled in theirs
tacos made with plantains and a sauce of annatto seed and sweet peppers
(popular in Chiapas)
ETC.
Most of these go down well with some cebollitas de cambray (like green
onions, but the bulbs are big) grilled in lime juice or some fresh
radishes (leaves and all with lime juice and salt). Of course, one
musn't forget the salsa.
These do not constitute some weird concoctions, BTW; they are very
typical kinds of tacos in Mexico. Of course, many, many tacos are also
made with different kinds of meat, but not hamburger meat. Pork, beef,
goat, chicken, and many cuts of meats are common; sometimes the meat is
cooked gyros style with pineapple and onion - "al pastor."
"Barbacoa"-style is meat cooked in an underground pit lined with banana
or plantain leaves. Other times, the meat is cut into strips and
grilled. Chicken is often shredded and put into sauces/moles. What is
called a taco in the U.S. is a far cry from what tacos in Mexico are.
Saludos.
Kathy S. de Cano
Dustin Christmann
In article <565251$g...@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu>,
Victor M. Martinez <mar...@bullwinkle.che.utexas.edu> wrote:
>Dustin Christmann <dus...@bnr.ca> wrote:
>>a) MLS is a crap league.
>
>But it *is* a crappy league, every single football fan agrees (even my
>US friends).
>;-)
Well, I wouldn't rate it as highly as the better European or South American
first divisions (like in England, Italy, Germany, Argentina, Colombia, and
Brazil). I wouldn't even rate it as highly as the Mexican 1st division.
However, I do rate it about the same level as a second-tier European or South
American first division (like Belgium, Denmark, or Norway), or a second
division in the better countries.
Not bad for its first year.
>>b) Yanks know f*ck all about footy.
>
>There is also a consensus here... :)
Well, for most gringos, that's true.
>
>>c) The name of the game is football, and you Yanks should all be shot for using
>>the word soccer.
>
>Let's not get radical here. It is called football in every single country in
>the world except the US. If you guys want to call it something else it's your
>business, not mine.
Well, it's not even called "football" in every single ENGLISH-SPEAKING country.
(Never mind that in non-English-speaking countries, they call it futbol, fuss-
ball, calcio, and whatever else.) They call it "soccer" in Australia, New
Zealand, Canada, and the United States, where other games are called
"football." Certainly, those four nations constitute a significant part of the
English-speaking world.
MadLadG
Well Chung, I guess u said it all. POST IT
CHUNG WU <cy...@alcor.concordia.ca> wrote in article
<562hgv$r...@newsflash.concordia.ca>...
MadLadG
MadLadG
Reposting article removed by rogue canceller. See news.admin.net-abuse.announce
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heal thy self!!!!!!!
j...@dor.net wrote in article <3282E6...@dor.net>...
MadLadG
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Well Chung, I guess u said it all. POST IT