Spanish rape of native Mexican society
Toniuolevaiavea Fonoimoana
page 56
Only by exploiting the land, which required Indian labor, could the Spanish
colony flourish. Thus began the rape of the Indian, especially brutal between
1521 and 1550. The pillage of the Indian community included the taking of
women, "the most beautiful and the virgins," according to the natives of Santo
Tomas Ajusco; the Spaniards "were never satisfied."
The hunt for labor and tribute, which Spaniards exacted from the Indian,
helps explain the never-ending expeditions to explore, pacify, and enlarge the
boundaries of New Spain. Even before the dust had settled on Tenochtitlan,
Cortes dispatched expeditions to the four winds. Before long, Spanish soldiers
has seized all of Mexico, marched into Central America and braved the arid
region lying between the Californias and New Mexico.
The subjugation of the Maya of Yucatan, actually never truly completed until
the middle of the 19th century, lasted for a decade and a half, from 1527 to
1542. The mastery of Yucatan was entrusted to Francisco de Montejo, a
companion of Juan de Grijalva on his expedition to Yucatan and later of Cortes.
With the blessings of the crown, which named him an "adelantado", Montejo
sailed from Spain in 1527 with 400 men. In 1540, with the pacification of
Yucatan still unfinished, and old and exhausted Montejo delegated the
subjugation of the Maya to his son. Montejo El Mozo completed what his father
had set out to do, founding Merida, the capital of Yucatan, in 1542.
Tha pacification of southern Mexico started in 1521, when Cortes sent
Gonzalo de Sandoval to Coatzalcoalcos. Luis Marin went off to impose Spanish
control on the Zapotecs of Oaxaca and, to do so, pushed south into Chiapas,
where he established a town. Chiapas resisted the Spaniards until 1527, when
Diego de Mazariegos subdued its inhabitants.
Pacification of northern Mexico began under Beltran Nunyo de Guzman, a
corrupt and sanctimonious lawyer of noble family with friends in high places.
Guzman set off for Mihoacan in 1529, acquiring almost immeditaely a reputation
for cruelty. The natives knew him as the "senyor de la borca y cuchillo", the
man who relied on the noose and knife to kill. Among his wanton acts one stood
out: the hanging of six Indian chieftains simply because they failed to sweep
the path over which he would walk. For six years, this sadistic Spaniards
pillaged Mihoacan, southern Zacatercas, Jalisco, and Culiacan, a region
baptized Nueva Galicia.
page61
Encomenderos, first off, had their pick of the Indian women, whether with
husband or not. They used them as domestics and as concubines and, when they
were no longer useful, drove them away. On the sugar plantations, the
encomenderos "married" them off to their slaves. Some beat their Indian to
death; others buried them alive; the less cruel killed them with guns. When
they fled from his grasp, the encomendero pursued them with bloodhounds. Cortes
and fellow encomenderos earned money by selling their Indians into slavery.
Juan Ponce de Leon, one of these encomenderos, beat his Indians so badly that
the authorities arrested him for crimes. The best of the encomenderos drove
their Indians from dawn to dusk, while the heartless robbed them of their
goods.
page 68
Zumarraga, one of the most fanatical of them, believed that they must
discipline Indian heretics. As apolistic inquisitor, he brought before him some
19 Indian "sinners", one being Don Carlos Chichimecatecuhtli, whose notorious
trial in Texcoco in 1539 ended with his burning at the stake. In Mihoacan, a
Augustinian zealot had 4 Indian heretics tied to a pole in the town plaza, laid
quantities of wood at their feet, and then lit a fire, which the wind
suppossedly blew out of control. Whatever the friar's intent, 2 of the Indians
were burned alive and the others scarred for life. Another friar in Mihoacan
had an Indian tortured in order to compel him to confess his sins. On the next
day, when the jailer came to his cell, he found that he had hanged himself to
escape further torture. Similar accounts besmirched the reputation of the
Franciscans in Yucatan, where they kept a tight rein for over 2 centuries.
Beatings were common, as well as reliance on church jails to woo the
unconvinced. At church masses, the absent were noted and, when caught, whipped.
page 77
The dramatic decline of its native population also recast the society of New
Spain. The death of millions of Indians, as well as the fickleness of mining,
shaped the silver age. According to some scholars, of the 25 million people who
dwelt in central Mexico in 1519, just slightly over one million survived over a
century later. Even when the original figure is cut in half, as dissenting
sages urge, and the number of survivors is doubled, the loss of Indian life is
still breathtaking. Not until the mid-seventeenth century did the decline come
to an end. No other European conquest had such devastating repurcussions..
Illness alone did not kill the Indians. The black legend off a ruthless
Spain was no myth. The Spaniard was directly responsible for the death of
millions of native peoples. The Spaniards, after all, came to get rich, if not
with gold and silver, off the labor of the Indian.
Not exempt from blame were the missionaries, often the same friars who
defended the Indian. Determined to erect temples, convents, and monasteries,
they demanded labor of their neophytes and settled them on mission lands, where
European maladies spread like wildfires. Every one of the Catholic shrines,
usually edifices for the use of a few friars and staffed with a raft of Indian
servants, arose at the expense of the Indian's way of life. The clergy and
their secular allies, furthermore, disturbed the ratio of food to man by
reducing the numbers of dirt farmers while multiplying the ranks of townsfolk
who must be fed. The policy of congregating Indians in pueblos, which exposed
them to European diseases, exacerbated their plight. Spaniards, also, upset the
ecological balance, cutting down the forests and using the wood for their
buildings or fuel. Within a century, vast stretches of land lay barren of
trees. The iron plow cut deep into the soil, often on unprotected slopes; when
the rains came, they carried the topsoil away, leaving ravines and gullies.
Cattle roamed freely, stripping the earth of its grass cover and adding to its
woes in time of rain, or, more than once, wandered into the fields or corn and
squash tilled by Indians, destroying crops and enlarging their food supply.
Colonial record are replete with Indian complaints of damage done by cattle.
The pivotal injury done to the Indian, maybe the clue to his demise, only
students of the human psyche can measure. By intent and by accident, Spaniards
altered drastically the native cultures. Conquest was a traumatic experience
because the Spaniards made no effort to reach a cultural compromise. The
Indians, recalled Bernardino de Sahagun, we so "trampled underfoot that not a
vestige remained of what they had been." Sahagun exaggerated, but none of the
major Indian groups, the Aztecs included, weathered the Conquest; only groups
of marginal importance to the Spaniards, the Maya for one, survived. Still,
even in Yucatan, the conquest was a terrible episode. The arival of the
Spaniards reduced Maya society essentially to one class, coverting even the
native elite, which lost all but a few of its privileges, to milpa farmers.
Eventually, there were no native soldiers, no full-time craftsmen, no
shopkeepers or millers of flour, occupations reserved for non-Indians.
Subjugation transformed other aspects of native life. Before the arrival of
the European, Indians ate raw food and vegetagbles in abundance and drank
alcohol sparingly. The Europeans changed that. Among the Maya, for example, a
people who drank sparingly before the Conquest, aloholism becamea major vice
and the drinking of aguardiente, a raw, white rum, commonplace. Indians were
also told to change their ancestral way of dress, to give up loincloth for
zaraguelles, white cotton trousers, standard wear by the end of the 16th
century. Women of the humbler families, accustomed to leaving their bosoms
naked, were shamed into covering them with the huipil, before long their
traditional blouse.
page 87
Before 1540, just 6 percent of Spaniards in New Spain were women. But
Spaniards, like males the world over, could not live without women, and so they
fornicated with Indian females and sired mestizos.
page 89
Cortes also introduced the first African slaves to New Spain. Most of them
were of the Islamic faith, hailing from the western Sudan, the Congo, and the
Gulf of Guinea. The Spaniards had first enslaved the Indian, at times placing
him in chains, as had Nunyo de Guzman in Nueva Galicia. In the Panuco region of
the Gulf of Mexico, they sold into slavery 15,000 Indians shipping them to the
sugar plantations of the Caribbean. Spaniards held as many as 200,000 Indian
slaves in 1542....
Ed Valle
"Toniuolevaiavea Fonoimoana" <sam...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020124011802...@mb-cs.aol.com...
Hi Toniuolevaiavea,
The atrocities you brought forth described in painful detail some of the
events that occurred before 1810. Mexico didn't exist then and that makes
the title of your post invalid. I changed it to better reflect the
historical record.
I added soc.culture.spain to give the nice folks there a chance to comment
on these historical charges, if they so desire. I also added
alt.politics.immigration because I believe that is where you regularly
splash in your own feces for the world to see.
The rape of Mexican society by the gringos literarily started in the mid
1800's at Mexico City and La Angostura. These events prompted American
general Scott to lament along these lines: "The US should be ashamed of what
their soldiers did today in Mexico City" and Taylor, another American
general, was so disgusted by the torture and rape of about 20 of the La
Angostura civilians at the hands of some of his gringos that he wanted to
court-martial them right on the spot. Ironically, this was preempted by the
tumultuous noise made by Mexican general Santa Anna announcing his arrival
at that battlefield.
The rape of Mexican society continues unabated to this very day, though. I
am sure you're familiar with what is now called "sexual tourism" by gringos
to Mexico and other American nations. These perverts go down there to
sexually exploit young boys and girls, spreading their veneral diseases and
causing all kinds of horrors with their unbuttoned pants. The mental, social
and economical chaos and corruption caused by these gringos remains with
very few parallels in modern history.
All of this under the protection of the US federal government and their
obscene military arsenal. No one should dare exact street justice to any of
these "free and brave" gringos unless they want to be "bombed back to the
stone age".
This particular post of yours can be construed as an attempt to somehow
blame today's Mexico for these crimes of the past. It is equivalent to
blaming the rape victim for the crime suffered. "She/he was asking for it"
is a common retort from the rapists. You may be familiar with these replies
as you often imply how much you enjoy sucking your mother's tits. This
incestuous behavior is consistent with sexually abused children by the
people they love the most. You have failed several times to properly defend
yourself from public accussations of soliciting child pornography (asian
boys, IIRC) and engaging in lewd acts with petite females in public places.
Also, while your German daddy may have liked your mother's burrito body at
their prime, her current age makes your sexual fixation bordeline with
necrophilia. You may want to reconsider posting more information about those
illegal acts you allegedly commit with her behind closed doors.
Oh, btw, have a nice day.
Ed.
--
"There are many humorous things in this world. One of them is the White
people believing that they are less savage than the savages."
-- Mark Twain
Wayne Lundberg
"Toniuolevaiavea Fonoimoana" <sam...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020124011802...@mb-cs.aol.com...
> page 56
--snip---
Very good! And the conquest continues as you will see most major companies
in Mexico are owned and operated by families originating in Spain. Today's
general managers for most of these old companies continue to come from Spain
and manage with top-down, dictatorial style.
The very wealthy, about 20% of the Mexican population, mostly of Spanish
descent, continue gaining wealth and strength as they use the cheap labor
available throughout Latin America.
And most Mexicans are proud of their Spanish heritage even when they are on
the point of starvation! Go figure.
Toniuolevaiavea Fonoimoana
<<And most Mexicans are proud of their Spanish heritage even when they are on
the point of starvation!>>
Mexicans are blindly loyal to the Spanish Empire. No matter that the Spanish
stole all their wealth, destroyed every aspect of their beautiful native
culture and left them in abject poverty unable to care for themselves. Of
course, they blame the USA for their problems. The reason they are blindly
loyal to the Spansih, is that the Spaniards fooled them into believing they are
little Spaniards. they did that by giving them full Spanish names, by forcing
them to convert to catholicism, by forcing them to speakie Spanish and by
destroying every aspect of their beautiful native culture that was the jewel of
the world. Of course, being forever loyal to the despicable Spanish Empire,
they then see the USA as their historic rival and eternal enemy.
faitau Tusi Pa'ia
Toniuolevaiavea Fonoimoana
<<Mexico didn't exist then and that makes
the title of your post invalid. I changed it to better reflect the historical
record.>>
but "gringo" refers to Anglos, so "gringo rape of Mexican Society" would be
innacurate since it was the Spaniards that destroyed every aspect of native
Mexican society, so much so that natives of Mexico have no clue to what tribe
they are. Then those same natives got the nerve to sneak into the USA and
accuse the USA of "destroying" native society here when all of our Indians know
their exact tribe and %. And have names like ProudFoot and WhiteBear.
faitau Tusi Pa'ia
Toniuolevaiavea Fonoimoana
<<The rape of Mexican society by the gringos literarily started in the mid
1800's at Mexico City and La Angostura.>>
never heard of the incident. Enlighten me, senyor.
<<was so disgusted by the torture and rape of about 20 of the La Angostura
civilians at the hands of some of his gringos that he wanted to
court-martial them right on the spot.>>
what started the incident?
<<The rape of Mexican society continues unabated to this very day, though. I
am sure you're familiar with what is now called "sexual tourism" by gringos
to Mexico and other American nations. These perverts go down there to
sexually exploit young boys and girls>>
of course Mexicans allow it because it brings money into Mexico.
<<The mental, social and economical chaos and corruption caused by these
gringos remains with very few parallels in modern history.>>
then don;t allow those perverts into Mexico, senyor.
<<All of this under the protection of the US federal government>>
how so?
<<and their obscene military arsenal.>>
how is it "obscene"?
<<This particular post of yours can be construed as an attempt to somehow
blame today's Mexico for these crimes of the past.>>
no, I question the love you people have for anything Spanish. Those people
destroyed your beautiful native culture that was the envy of all the world. If
Anglos went to samoa and destroyed all their moai and heiau and other native
treasures, stole all the wealth Samoa had to offer, and enslaved the Samoan
people, do you think the Samoans people today would be in love with the
Anglos???!!
faitau Tusi Pa'ia
Toniuolevaiavea Fonoimoana
countries for a better life.
faitau Tusi Pa'ia
Toniuolevaiavea Fonoimoana
look what that despicable Empire did to destroy native societies all over the
world. Stealing gold form native societies all over the world, destryong every
aspect of native society, wiping out native languages all over the Americas and
worst of all, leaving the natives of the Americas in abject poverty so that
they had to leave their native homelands to sneak into the USA for a better
life.
From "Great Conquerors of South and Central America", by A. Hyatt Verrill,
copyright 1929
page 19
But never, probably, in the history of the world, was there a conquest that was
won at a greater cost of injustices, and of cruelties. And certainly there has
never been another that has been marked by a more ruthless and wanton
destruction of entire civilizations.
Perhaps the most regrettable result of the conquest was the loss to the
world of irreparable records, monuments, buildings, works of art, handiwork and
inumerable other objects pertaining to the American civilizations destroyed by
the Spanish conquerors. Very largely this wholesale destruction was due to the
fanatical zeal of the servants of the Church who saw, in nearly everything, the
symbols of Satan, and who thought it was their duty to eliminate everything
pertaining to paganism. But vast quantities of the most priceless works of art
and handicraft were lost to the world by being melted down for the sake of
their bullion by the conquerors who saw in them only thier intrinsic value of
precious metals.
It is stated by the treasurer and the notary of Pizarro that it required 60
Incan goldsmiths working steadily day and night for 1month to reduce the gold
and silver objects accumulated at Cajamarca to bullion, and these were but a
small portion of the whole obtained by the conquerors in Puru. At another
place, an immense stone statue was found and broken up by order of the priests.
So huge was this piece of sculpture that 30 men were employed for 3 days to
destroy it. In Mexico, marvelous mosaics were ripped to pieces for the
turquoise and semiprecious stones of which they were composed; woodwork was
burned to recover the gold nails that were used, and wonderful mantles and
costumes of feathers, and priceless textiles, were reduced to ashes in order to
secure the golden threads of the fabrics.
Human sufferings may be forgotten in time, human lives are replaced by
others; but the products of human minds and hands, the records of hundreds of
generations, the histories of races, the monuments, the carvings, the
architecture and the thousand and one things that tell the story of countless
centuries of a race's development, can never be duplicated. Once destroyed,
they are lost to the world forever.
faitau Tusi Pa'ia
Wayne Lundberg
> destroying every aspect of their beautiful native culture that was the
jewel of
> the world. Of course, being forever loyal to the despicable Spanish
Empire,
> they then see the USA as their historic rival and eternal enemy.
> faitau Tusi Pa'ia
---snip---
Bravo! Could not have said it better myself.
David Eduardo
"Wayne Lundberg" <Wayn...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:EZk48.2275$Ab1.1...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
The only problem, of course, is that the statement is not true.
giacodellabrua
>1800's
Well, I'm half gringo, and I had nothing to do with it.Judging from immigration
trends, a lot of folks seem to be coming back for more...
Shotgun
participated in any of this. I also think you're much to young to have been
victimized by any of it.
"Ed Valle" <edv...@azteca.net> wrote in message
news:a2s7e2$13k4kt$1...@ID-85667.news.dfncis.de...
Ed Valle
news:0wv48.1717$gd.3...@news2.nash1.tn.home.com...
>
> Another Mexican history lesson. Sorry, I'm much
> too young to have participated in any of this. I also
> think you're much to young to have been victimized
> by any of it.
>
Hi Shotgun,
You are correct.
I am old, fat and ugly and some would say that I certainly look older than
some 150 year old shit, but, I assure you, that is not the case.
I'll take this as a compliment. Thanks,
Ed.
Ed Valle
news:20020125193254...@mb-ft.aol.com...
>
> (Ed Valle wrote:)
>
> >The rape of Mexican society by the gringos literarily
>
> Well, I'm half gringo, and I had nothing to do with it.
>
Hi giacodellabrua,
I've read your posts and you come across as an American and not as a gringo.
Don't sell yourself short.
>
> Judging from immigration trends, a lot of folks seem to
> be coming back for more...
>
Do not rape anybody, immigrant or otherwise. I do not believe I need to
explain to you why it is a crime. But I'll give you an example of the
horrors it can cause. I submit that Susan Smith drowning her children was a
direct consequence of her being sexually abused when she was young.
The image of those kids in their car seats at the bottom of the lake stunned
not only America but most of the world as well.
Regards,
Ed.
Ed Valle
"Toniuolevaiavea Fonoimoana" <sam...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020125133644...@mb-mj.aol.com...
>
> Nor do USA natives have to leave their ancestral
> homeland to sneak into other countries for a better life.
>
Hi Toniuolevaiavea,
You seem to be confused with your terms and perceptions, again.
To "sneak" means to "move in a stealthy way". By this definition, no one
sneaks into the USA. Let me explain: For the past 50 years people from all
over the world has come to this great land using the same routes and the
same methods. This has been known all along and the flow of immigrants is
constant, predictable and very visible. I say that is not "sneaking".
It is so predictable that there was some discussion a few months back about
putting watering holes and even telephones for these migrants to use in case
they had some kind of emergency. I guess a typical phone conversation
between the INS and the polleros would go like this:
+++
The Good Guys: Immigration and Naturalization Service. Department of
emergency assistance to undocumented workers in water-challenged regions -
Tucson office. How may I help you?
Malo Coyote: ORALE CABRONES, MANDEN UNAS PINCHES CHELAS BIEN HELODIAS PORQUE
ESTOS POLLOS QUE TRAIGO YA ME TRAEN TODO ATARANTADO, CHINGADA MADRE.
The Good Guys: Oh, my Gosh! tu calmar, senyor, and speako slowly because yo
enteder mucho poquito Spanich only. Tu necesitar roja cruz because mama
malita? ella se llamar Chela or Helodia?
Malo Coyote: (Chingale un ojo, nomas eso me faltaba!) OYE CHULA, DEJAME
HABLAR CON UN CABRON QUE HABLE ESPANYOL.
The Good Guys: Sorry, senyor, no poder hacer. All the bilenguistas officers
son laid-off en ultima semana. Como yo poder ayudar a tu?
Malo Coyote: CERVEZAS, PRIMOR, MANDA UN CHINGO DE C-E-R-V-E-Z-A-S BIEN FRIAS
PORQUE NOS ESTAMOS SECANDO EN ESTE DESIERTO QUE ARDE COMO LA PINCHE ANTESALA
DEL INFIERNO.
The Good Guys: Cerveza? oh, see, yo entender ahora. Tu decir classes que
necesitar.
Malo Coyote: Ya rugiste leona, echale lapiz:
375 Tecates
187 Mexicalis
453 Coronas
12 Sakis
48 Heiniken
252 Carta Blancas
97 Tres equis
82 Dos equis
6 Bohemias
y 2 ...
The Good Guys: Uno momento, senyor, uno momento. No bohemias. State
regulations decir que yo no poder mandar chicas al desierto.
Malo Coyote: Chicas? Oye, no es mala idea, te apuesto que les gusta mis tres
pulgadas y media.
The Good Guys: 3.5 pulgadas? (hehehe) tu tenerla mucho chiquita, seny...
Malo Coyote: De gruesa, mamacita, de gruesa.
The Good Guys: ........................I, ah, ...........I (I mean) yo, eh
...... yo....
Malo Coyote: Tu que, mi amor, tu que?
The Good Guys: Tu esperar uno momento...(Dan, would you please go to the end
of the room and adjust the room temperature? it's getting awful hot in
here...thanks) ..... (*cough* )... tu ser (*cough*) casado?
(*cough*)(*cough*)
Malo Coyote: Yo? n'ombre como crees, la casada es mi mujer.
The Good Guys: Oh, hmmm... bueno, me sentir mucho, honey, still no bohemias.
Malo Coyote: Chin... bueno, perame tantito... (A VER ESOS CABRONES DEL
BURRION, LA MIGRA YA NO REPARTE BOHEMIAS, QUE OTRA COSA QUIEREN)
Los cabrones del Burrion: PACIFICO!!!
Malo Coyote: Dicen que ...
The Good Guys: Yeah, I got it, I got it...6 Pacifico beers. Tu decir dos mas
before?
Malo Coyote: Huh? oh, si, 2 Miller Lights para el par de pochos pendejos que
olvidaron los papeles en su casa.
The Good Guys: Miller Light? Mucho buena opcion. The helicoptero estar
volando en tu cabeza en mucho cortito, 45 minutos para maximo.
Malo Coyote: 45 MINUTOS?!? pos que las estas mandando desde Old Town
Alexandria? Tucson esta a 22 millas nada mas!
The Good Guys: Tu entender, darling, me tener 3 pedidos enfrente tu cabeza.
No creer supervisor dejar a yo brincar para tu.
Malo Coyote: Dile al supervisor, mi amor, dile.
The Good Guys: Well, I don't know... OK, tu esperar
............................. No, el decir que tu esperar turno.
Malo Coyote: DILE A TU PINCHE SUPERVISOR QUE DIGO YO QUE VAYA MUCHO A
CHINGAR A SU MADRE... no perate, mejor no le digas eso, mejor dile que.....
dile que...... dile que esta bien, pero siempre y cuando las cervezas
lleguen bien frias porque calientes saben a miados de burro.
The Good Guys: Si, honey. Tu tener uno gentil dia ahora.
+++
With respect to your claim of a "better life" that immigrants have here, let
me explain something that you and most of the other patriots do not seem to
understand: A better life also means inclusion in society and a sense of
belonging. But that is not there yet. So tell me, when are the patriots
going to let this happen when they publicly claim to deny products and
services to people whose national origin they find objectionable? or those
who decide to forgo their inculcated American values and morals and proceed
to impersonate cholo gangbangers in an effort to further their own personal
agenda? Or exclusionists like you, who refer to heroes who have made the
ultimate sacrifice defending the honor and dignity of their adopted homeland
with ephitets like "hispanicks" and other putdowns?
I find this particular situation laughable as these same patriots benefit
every day of the very same diversity they vociferously deplor. Let me give
you just 3 examples of how diversity has helped America become what it is
today:
1. Badillo. "Mexican" who was successful in alerting Sam Houston of the
Mexicans at El Alamo changing the outcome of the Texas Revolution.
2. Einsten. "Jew" who gave America his superb knowledge of physics and
helped developed the first atom bombs that brought WWII to a screeching
halt.
3. Code Talkers. "American Natives" who send allied messages without the
Axis ever decoding them. They helped won the war.
I'll even throw in a bonus for you:
4. Bonds. "Black" American who demolished the home run record in 2001.
(I wanted to mention the black doctor who invented and perfected blood
transfusions because I know you have a thing for scientific achievements but
you already know his name and the reasons of his death, if you actually did
your homework)
But not everything is lost in you. I must admit that I admire your trolling
abilities. Specially these listed below:
a. Acting stupid when it is clear that you are a very sharp individual.
b. Breaking usenet nettiquette by:
b.1 Replying multiple times to one post.
b.2 Using e-mail to pursue usenet discussions.
b.3 Posting private discussions to public forums.
b.4 Misspelling personal names and usenet nyms. My favorites are
"panzer" and "porker". Way to go.
b.5 Misspelling names of known countries to claim that their phonetic
names are the correct ones.
b.6 Altering the list of newsgroups without mentioning it.
b.7 Altering quoted text from previous posts to conform to your agenda.
c. Laughing at human tragedies when your hated latinos are involved.
d. Claiming to be pro-illegal immigration, as long as it is not from
latinos.
e. Chastising people for their kids names and then claiming that yours are
entitled to theirs because they're "half-Japanese".
You must admit, you may already be a legend in your own time.
Congratulations. However, do not think you're my heroe as your replies
didn't pose much of a challenge, I am actually a bit disappointed. So I
guess I will now continue to ignore you as I have done for the past 3 years.
Take care, bud.
Ed.
--
"Hate is as American as apple pie. You had better get used to it if you
want to be one."
-- stvfrmco in API, 7/17/01
giacodellabrua
>I've read your posts and you come across as an American and not as a gringo.
>Don't sell yourself short.
Thanks. I was being facetious, as I hope was obvious.
>Do not rape anybody, immigrant or otherwise
I assure you, I haven't and won't.
>I submit that Susan Smith drowning her children was a
>direct consequence of her being sexually abused
Well, she also had the option of breaking the cycle of violence, and failed to
do that... Lots of abused kids take great care not to abuse their own children.
No sympathy here for a murderess.
Saludos,
Giaco
Nicolas Garcia
Go down to Oaxaca, Guanajuato, Yucatan, and more southern states, and
ask around to see what tribe they belong to, mister MAMALEUNA. you'll be
surprised, and humiliated by their answers, because they will make you
look more stupid than you are!!!
speaking before finding out the truth is something you do on a daily
basis, huh mister???
Nicolas Garcia
another ignorant person...
you got company, mister MAMALEUNA!!!!
Toniuolevaiavea Fonoimoana
<<To "sneak" means to "move in a stealthy way". By this definition, no one
sneaks into the USA.>>
Latin Americans sneak into the USA. They come in the trunks of cars, they come
by underground sewers, they cross the border at night so as not to be seen by
the Border Patrol, they pay coyotes to sneak them in. Same for other Latin
Americans desperate to get the hell out of their countries and to sneak into
the USA. Which I find to be pathetic!
faitau Tusi Pa'ia
Toniuolevaiavea Fonoimoana
<<Another Mexican history lesson. Sorry, I'm much too young to have
participated in any of this. I also think you're much to young to have been
victimized by any of it.>>
just like that? Just forget all the atrocities the Spanish brough upon the
native people of the Americas?
ALL NATIVE PEOPLES OF THE WORLD UNITE!
faitau Tusi Pa'ia
Toniuolevaiavea Fonoimoana
ah, but it was the Spanish "whites" that raped Mexican society, not the Anglos.
So feel no shame at all, unless you have Spanish blood in you.
faitau Tusi Pa'ia
Toniuolevaiavea Fonoimoana
<<Go down to Oaxaca, Guanajuato, Yucatan, and more southern states, and
From "Triumphs and Tragedy", by Ramon Eduardo Ruiz, copyright 1992.
only groups of marginal importance to the Spaniards, the Maya for one,
survived. Still, even in Yucatan, the conquest was a terrible episode. The
arrival of the Spaniards reduced Maya society essentially to one class,
coverting even the native elite, which lost all but a few of its privileges, to
milpa farmers. Eventually, there were no native soldiers, no full-time
craftsmen, no shopkeepers or millers of flour, occupations reserved for
non-Indians.
faitau Tusi Pa'ia
Toniuolevaiavea Fonoimoana
<<The only problem, of course, is that the statement is not true.>>
you disagree that Mexicans are blindly loyal to the former great Spanish
Empire? I disagree, it gives Mexicans a sense of importance in the world. It
makes them feel important to be sees as the descendants of that former great
empire. It makes them feel like players on the world scene. To that end, they
will never say anything bad at all about the rape of their native society by
the Spanish and will forever see the USA/UK as their historic rivals and
eternal enemies. Look at how far they go to denigrate the many acheivements of
the USA/Anglos. Then they expect to sneak into the USA and live here after
trashing us. Look no further than the title of this thread.
faitau Tusi Pa'ia
Ed Valle
"Toniuolevaiavea Fonoimoana" <sam...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020129111241...@mb-mb.aol.com...
>
> Ed valley says:
>
> <<To "sneak" means to "move in a stealthy way". By this
> <<definition, no one sneaks into the USA.>>
>
> Latin Americans sneak into the USA. They come in the trunks of
> cars, they come by underground sewers, they cross the border
> at night so as not to be seen by the Border Patrol, they pay
> coyotes to sneak them in.
>
Hi Toniuolevaiavea,
Problems with your reading comprehension?
The same routes, the same methods of the last 50 years. "Sneak", right.
>
> Same for other Latin Americans desperate to get the hell out
> of their countries and to sneak into the USA.
>
Someone has to pickup your dead from sacred land. Just ask mayor Guiliani.
>
> Which I find to be pathetic!
>
Suck on it.
>
> faitau Tusi Pa'ia
>
(chuckle) I guess there is no end to your obscenity, huh?
Ed.
Toniuolevaiavea Fonoimoana
<<I guess there is no end to your obscenity, huh?>>
I bet you have no clue to what "faitau Tusi Pa'i'a" means, do you, Senyor? You
peoel puport to be into learning foreign langauges but I can guaraantee you
have no idea what "faitau Tusi Pa'i'a" means.
faitau Tusi Pa'ia
Ed Valle
Go for it, Toniuolevaiavea, translate it for me.
Ed.
Shotgun
Every night the saga repeats itself as thousands of illegals and their
"coyote" guides try to avoid the Border Patrol and enter the country
illegally so they can drive down the wages of the law abiding citizens.
If that ain't "sneaking", then tear the word from dictionary as it ceases to
have meaning!
"Ed Valle" <edv...@azteca.net> wrote in message
news:a32kfb$14g207$1...@ID-85667.news.dfncis.de...
Ed Valle
>
> You're joking, right?
>
Jeezzz, Shotgun, what gave it away?
>
> Of course they sneak on the southern U.S. border.
>
Nope. That is not "sneaking". The activity is constant, predictable and very
visible. That is not "sneaking". Are you trying to convince me that the most
powerful nation in the world is incapable of protecting its own borders? I
mean, this is the nation that put a man on the moon (or so they say) and we
have seen recently how they can vaporize a couple of lone figures walking in
a barren hill in the middle of the night in Afghanistan. Are you somehow
saying that this almighty nation cannot see who is crossing the border?
>
> Every night the saga repeats itself as thousands of
> illegals and their "coyote" guides try to avoid the
> Border Patrol and enter the country illegally so
> they can drive down the wages of the law abiding
> citizens.
>
My point precisely. Except that they come here to see that the Spanish
empire finaly prevails over the last remnants of the British empire and not
to drive down wages of the law-abiding citizens.
>
> If that ain't "sneaking", then tear the word from
> dictionary as it ceases to have meaning!
>
No, Shotgun, the meaning is very clear. It just doesn't apply to what
happens every night at the border.
Regards,
Ed.
David Eduardo
About the last language a polyglot would want to learn is Samoan. Spoken by
less than 500,000 people in the entire world; nearly all those people also
speak English (just listen to 2AP or WVUV or WDJD if you don't believe
this).
Squanto
> [alt.politics.immigration reinstated]
>
> "Toniuolevaiavea Fonoimoana" <sam...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20020129111241...@mb-mb.aol.com...
> >
> > Ed valley says:
> >
> > <<To "sneak" means to "move in a stealthy way". By this
> > <<definition, no one sneaks into the USA.>>
> >
> > Latin Americans sneak into the USA. They come in the trunks of
> > cars, they come by underground sewers, they cross the border
> > at night so as not to be seen by the Border Patrol, they pay
> > coyotes to sneak them in.
> >
>
> Hi Toniuolevaiavea,
>
> Problems with your reading comprehension?
>
> The same routes, the same methods of the last 50 years. "Sneak", right.
>
I prefer the term "slither."
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----
Squanto
> Every night the saga repeats itself as thousands of illegals and their
> "coyote" guides try to avoid the Border Patrol and enter the country
> illegally so they can drive down the wages of the law abiding citizens.
>
> If that ain't "sneaking", then tear the word from dictionary as it ceases
to
> have meaning!
>
>
Slither, damn it, slither!!!! On their bellies, like the vile snakes they
are!!!!!!!
David Eduardo
> Davo Glison says:
> <<The only problem, of course, is that the statement is not true.>>
>
> you disagree that Mexicans are blindly loyal to the former great Spanish
> Empire?
Absolutely. In fact, the Spanish were much hated in the 1800's in Mexico and
most of Spanish-Speaking Latin America. While this is less of an obsessive
hate today, the only thing in common with Spain is the language and the
religion and some customs. There is no cultural identity as "being Spanish"
among most Hispaniscs outside of Spain..
>I disagree, it gives Mexicans a sense of importance in the world. It
> makes them feel important to be sees as the descendants of that former
great
> empire. It makes them feel like players on the world scene. To that end,
they
> will never say anything bad at all about the rape of their native society
by
> the Spanish and will forever see the USA/UK as their historic rivals and
> eternal enemies. Look at how far they go to denigrate the many
acheivements of
> the USA/Anglos. Then they expect to sneak into the USA and live here after
> trashing us. Look no further than the title of this thread.
Verbal garbage. As expected form you.
Ed Valle
news:3c573...@corp.newsgroups.com...
>
> Ed Valle <edv...@azteca.net> wrote in message
> news:a36q8o$16371k$1...@ID-85667.news.dfncis.de...
> >
every night)
> >
> > The same routes, the same methods of the
> > last 50 years. "Sneak", right.
> >
>
> I prefer the term "slither."
>
Thanks Squanto, for agreeing with me that this activity is not "sneaking".
I was actually losing hope that there was any intelligent life in API.
Regards,
Ed.
Shotgun
someone with enough intelligence to have a debate with. Now that I see I am
dealing with my inferior, I won't trouble you further.
Guess again. Too many people have died for this place to have it invaded by
an diseased, illiterate, unskilled band of law breakers. Things are turning
around. Can't you feel it? I can.
"Ed Tacobender" <edv...@azteca.net> wrote in message
news:a37b2p$165iav$1...@ID-85667.news.dfncis.de...
Toniuolevaiavea Fonoimoana
<<Oh! I get it. You're a "Reconquista".>>
for there to be a "re"-Conquista, there must have been an original counquest. I
want to know when the original conquest of the USA southwest was. Where were
the battles fought? How many Spaniards died fighting for the land? Who were the
generals?
faitau Tusi Pa'ia
Toniuolevaiavea Fonoimoana
I
want to know when the original conquest of the USA southwest was.>>
there was none. The Spanish decided to claim that land as their own one day
without even bothering to settle it. The Indians never gave them that land. Nor
did they know they were under Spanish "control".
faitau Tusi Pa'ia
Tiny Human Ferret
>
> "Shotgun" <ep...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:gJF58.12288$gd.26...@news2.nash1.tn.home.com...
> >
> > You're joking, right?
> >
>
> Jeezzz, Shotgun, what gave it away?
>
> >
> > Of course they sneak on the southern U.S. border.
> >
>
> Nope. That is not "sneaking". The activity is constant, predictable and very
> visible. That is not "sneaking". Are you trying to convince me that the most
> powerful nation in the world is incapable of protecting its own borders? I
> mean, this is the nation that put a man on the moon (or so they say) and we
> have seen recently how they can vaporize a couple of lone figures walking in
> a barren hill in the middle of the night in Afghanistan. Are you somehow
> saying that this almighty nation cannot see who is crossing the border?
Let's just say that the government has been actively looking the other way
throughout the entire Clinton Administration. In fact, they were very busy
demonizing all rural people, and especially rural people who chose to not
wait for government approval before defending themselves. However, this is
not the Clinton Administration and this is no longer the middle of an
economic boom. I might also add that this is the middle of a war that
appears to be ongoing for some time to come.
The border will become increasingly impassible except at official points of
entry.
>
> >
> > Every night the saga repeats itself as thousands of
> > illegals and their "coyote" guides try to avoid the
> > Border Patrol and enter the country illegally so
> > they can drive down the wages of the law abiding
> > citizens.
> >
>
> My point precisely. Except that they come here to see that the Spanish
> empire finaly prevails over the last remnants of the British empire and not
> to drive down wages of the law-abiding citizens.
But unfortunately, driving down the wages of law-abiding CITIZEN is exactly
what these border-jumping ILLEGAL ALIENS are doing.
And by the way, that you very much for your honesty in stating that this
isn't at all about "people just looking for jobs and a better life"; this is
in fact a politically-directed Invasion.
>
> >
> > If that ain't "sneaking", then tear the word from
> > dictionary as it ceases to have meaning!
> >
>
> No, Shotgun, the meaning is very clear. It just doesn't apply to what
> happens every night at the border.
You will find the border to be increasingly impassible unless you have
official permission and enter through the proper channels.
>
> Regards,
>
> Ed.
--
Be kind to your neighbors, even though they be transgenic chimerae.
Whom thou'st vex'd waxeth wroth: Meow. <-----> http://earthops.net/klaatu/
Ed Valle
>
> Oh! I get it. You're a "Reconquista". Excuse me.
> I mistook you for someone with enough intelligence
> to have a debate with. Now that I see I am
> dealing with my inferior, I won't trouble you further.
>
Shotgun,
I guess you wouldn't recognize a troll even if it were to give you a good
whacking with a clue-by-four.
As a last courtesy to you I'll say that it was a test to confirm if you were
serious about what you were saying. I now realize that you were and I
apologize for making that remark, it was unfair for me to do so. I cannot
really blame you for dismissing me as a fool now.
>
> Guess again. Too many people have died for this
> place to have it invaded by an diseased, illiterate,
> unskilled band of law breakers.
>
Yes. And many of those were the same people that most of American society
now label "a band of law-breakers".
>
> Things are turning around. Can't you feel it? I can.
>
We can only hope. Take care.
Ed.
Ed Valle
news:3C580F0F...@earthops.net...
>
> Ed Valle wrote:
> >
> > "Shotgun" <ep...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:gJF58.12288$gd.26...@news2.nash1.tn.home.com...
> > >
> > >
> > > illegals and their "coyote" guides try to avoid the
> > > Border Patrol and enter the country illegally so
> > > they can drive down the wages of the law abiding
> > > citizens.
> > >
> >
> > My point precisely. Except that they come here to
> > see that the Spanish empire finaly prevails over the
> > last remnants of the British empire and not
> > to drive down wages of the law-abiding citizens.
>
> But unfortunately, driving down the wages of law-abiding
> CITIZEN is exactly what these border-jumping
> ILLEGAL ALIENS are doing.
>
Hi Tiny,
Yes. But that is not the reason why the immigrants come here. There are as
many reasons as there are immigrants.
To claim that the sole purpose for them to come here is to drive the wages
down is as stupid as saying that they come here to see that the Spanish
empire prevails over the British empire. You of all people should have
caught that as you are, by far, the most intelligent and fair person in API.
I will discard this lapse of yours as a fluke.
The depression of wages is a symptom of the market saturation for an
specific skill. And I'll leave it at that because I am now bored with all
this nonsense and don't want to rattle your overloaded brains anymore.
BTW, what does az.general has to do with any of this?
Ed.
Toniuolevaiavea Fonoimoana
<<To claim that the sole purpose for them to come here is to drive the wages
down is as stupid as saying that they come here to see that the Spanish
empire prevails over the British empire>>
This Hispanick admits as much:
Subject: Re: About Cheran,Michoacan
Date: 01/12/2001 3:43 PM Pacific Standard Time
From: SpanishS...@aol.com
Message-id: <20010112184352...@ng-cs1.aol.com>
You retard!!!!! First you say that the people of South America love the
Spanish, then you say they are despise!
From what I hear and see the Anglos are the most despise.
They are the most racist people in the US. I can't wait when we
breed your kind out of existance. And when the US becomes more
Black and Hispanic the sun will finally set on the British.
faitau Tusi Pa'ia
Toniuolevaiavea Fonoimoana
<<But that is not the reason why the immigrants come here. There are as
many reasons as there are immigrants.>>
the reason Hispanicks come/sneak into the USA is that they are genetically
unable to create any semblance of their own successful country. That genetic
ability belongs to the peoples of Central European heritage.
faitau Tusi Pa'ia
Toniuolevaiavea Fonoimoana
<<Absolutely. In fact, the Spanish were much hated in the 1800's in Mexico and
most of Spanish-Speaking Latin America>>
I listed numerous incidents of abuses of native people by the Spanish and not
one Hispanick here got incited by what I posted. They all defended the Spansih
and one, Ed Valley, even changed the subject to gringo rape of Mexico. The USA
never stole gold from Mexico as the Spanish did, never forced their religion on
the people of Mexico, never forced them to take full English names, never
enslaved Mexicans. The USA has done just the opposite, bringing money into
Mexico. The two largest sources of revenue for Mexico is the USA. Not Spain.
Spain only stole wealth from Mexico, yet the Mexicans today are blindly loyal
to them. Just like a batterred wife that is blindly loyal to her husband who
has abused her and beaten her forever.
faitau Tusi Pa'ia
Ed Valle
"Toniuolevaiavea Fonoimoana" <sam...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020130121700...@mb-cb.aol.com...
>
> Ed Valley says:
> <<To claim that the sole purpose for them to come
> here is to drive the wages down is as stupid as
> saying that they come here to see that the Spanish
> empire prevails over the British empire>>
>
> This Hispanick admits as much:
>
> From: SpanishS...@aol.com
>
Hi Toniuolevaiavea,
And you use one post made over a year ago by one person to claim that all
Hispanics think the same way. I see.
All I have to say to is that the guy is as stupid as you are. Hard to
imagine, I know, but hey, what the heck.
Did you contact the man to ask permission to post this diatribe?
Ed.
Ed Valle
"Toniuolevaiavea Fonoimoana" <sam...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020130121819...@mb-cb.aol.com...
>
> Ed Valley says:
> <<But that is not the reason why the immigrants
> come here. There are as many reasons as
> there are immigrants.>>
>
> the reason Hispanicks come/sneak into the USA is
> that they are genetically unable to create any semblance
> of their own successful country.
>
Hi Toniuolevaiavea,
You continue to be confused with your terms. I submit that all countries
coming out of the 19th century as such are successful. You can ask the
Somalilanders if you don't believe me.
But let me play with you some more. Let's now take the sense that
"successful" means "economically viable". I'd ask you to check Citicorp's
forays into LatinAmerica and see why they are doing it. I agree that the
conditions do not match the high US standards or are something that a US
engineer who takes the bus would care about, but let me just list some the
help the US has given these American nations to further their development:
1. Multiple military interventions.
2. Political assesinations.
3. Cultural and Economic colonization.
4. Economic and military support for regional dictators.
5. Attraction and retention of highly educated people. Also known as "Brain
drain".
6. Acts of war during peace time against countries holding diplomatic
relations.
7. Covert operations designed to desestibilize democratically elected
governments.
8. Promotion of rampant social corruption due to an enormous appetite for
illegal drugs.
9. Promotion of prostitution based on sexual tourism.
10. Stagnation of development of nuclear and other military weapons due to
NIMBY mentality.
11. Stagnation of industrial product innovation due to market saturation.
12. Promotion of social unrest due to despicable and arrogant behavior
towards neighbors.
13. Restriction on product imports by imposing arbitrary prohibitions.
14. Depletion of natural resources due to unrestrained commercial activity.
15. Depression of worker's wages due to unfair market competition.
16. Renegading on signed treaties by abducting foreign citizens from their
countries.
17. Imposition of economic embargos against governments not aligned with
their ideology.
18. Disrespect of international law when it stands in the way of their
economic interests.
19. Double standard in the application of international law.
20. Persecution of the poor based on immigration status.
I am sure you would be able to appreciate some of these conditions in a post
9-11 America.
>
> That genetic ability belongs to the peoples of Central
> European heritage.
>
(chuckle)
>
> faitau Tusi Pa'ia
>
You had an opportunity to prove me wrong for once in your miserable life and
you blew it. So, I'll extended it to you again:
Ed Valle
"Toniuolevaiavea Fonoimoana" <sam...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020130122234...@mb-cb.aol.com...
>
> Davo Glison says:
> <<Absolutely. In fact, the Spanish were much hated
> in the 1800's in Mexico and most of Spanish-Speaking
> Latin America>>
>
> I listed numerous incidents of abuses of native people by
> the Spanish and not one Hispanick here got incited by
> what I posted.
>
Hi Toniuolevaiavea,
You must be new to usenet as you appear to be unfamiliar with the treatment
trolls like you and me receive from more mature usenet participants. They
ignore assholes like us.
>
> They all defended the Spansih
>
Name one person who has defended the Spanish. As I recall, not even to
posters in soc.culture.spain got involved in this discussion.
>
> and one, Ed Valley, even changed the subject to gringo
> rape of Mexico.
>
For some strange reason I get the distinct impression that you're referring
to me, even though that is not my name. Must be because I am the one who
changed the title of your original post, but since you missed the reason why
I did it, I'll post it again for you to remember, pay more attention this
time:
"Mexico didn't exist then and that makes the title of your post invalid. I
changed it to better reflect the historical record."
Got it now?
>
> The USA never stole gold from Mexico as the Spanish did,
>
I guess tofu was what caused the gold rush to California, huh?
>
> never forced their religion on the people of Mexico,
>
First truth in all this time.
>
> never forced them to take full English names,
>
And another, I hope this trend will continue.
>
> never enslaved Mexicans.
>
So much for hoping that you'd stay on track, Oh, well. Causing all kinds of
disruptions didn't help in the enslaving of Mexicans, right.
>
> The USA has done just the opposite, bringing money into
> Mexico. The two largest sources of revenue for Mexico is
> the USA.
>
You are right. Please name them.
>
> Not Spain.Spain only stole wealth from Mexico,
> yet the Mexicans today are blindly loyal to them.
>
(chuckle)
>
> Just like a batterred wife that is blindly loyal to her
> husband who has abused her and beaten her forever.
>
Personal experience, Toniuolevaiavea?
Ed.
Harry
"Ed Valle" <edv...@azteca.net> wrote in message
news:a39dr7$16li5l$2...@ID-85667.news.dfncis.de...
> [alt.politics.immigration reinstated]
>
> "Toniuolevaiavea Fonoimoana" <sam...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20020130121819...@mb-cb.aol.com...
> >
> > Ed Valley says:
> > <<But that is not the reason why the immigrants
> > come here. There are as many reasons as
> > there are immigrants.>>
> >
> > the reason Hispanicks come/sneak into the USA is
> > that they are genetically unable to create any semblance
> > of their own successful country.
> >
>
> Hi Toniuolevaiavea,
>
> You continue to be confused with your terms. I submit that all countries
> coming out of the 19th century as such are successful. You can ask the
> Somalilanders if you don't believe me.
>
> But let me play with you some more. Let's now take the sense that
> "successful" means "economically viable". I'd ask you to check Citicorp's
> forays into LatinAmerica and see why they are doing it. I agree that the
You are right about Citibank not having a clean record in its international
operations, but out of all international banks is the only bank who has been
questioned by congressional hearings on such matters. You are better off
blaming the Swiss banks on aiding corrupt officials and drug lords. But hey,
I'd support a Citibank boycott.
It was the U.S.government who helped freeze the assets of el "Sr. de los
Cielos."
> conditions do not match the high US standards or are something that a US
> engineer who takes the bus would care about, but let me just list some the
> help the US has given these American nations to further their development:
>
> 1. Multiple military interventions.
Not all were bad.
> 2. Political assesinations.
Cold war casualties.
> 3. Cultural and Economic colonization.
Given the size of U.S. goods, duh! You can say the same about Asian goods.
> 4. Economic and military support for regional dictators.
Latin America can't govern itself democratically, except Costa Rica.
> 5. Attraction and retention of highly educated people. Also known as
"Brain
> drain".
Mostly from Asia and Europe.
> 6. Acts of war during peace time against countries holding diplomatic
> relations.
Explain.
Ed, you are full of conspiracy theories. You are like those white
supremacist types who conjure up Jewish conspiracies. Ok, governments
officials are not altar boys, in this or any other country. The success of a
nation ultimately lies on the character of its people. For example,
neighborhoods in America, some are dirty and some are clean. The dirty ones
are trashed by the residents of that neighborhood, the clean ones are clean
because the residents try to keep it that way.
Tiny Human Ferret
Possibly there is an interpretation error. I don't in any way suggest that
it is the _intent_ of the illegal aliens to drive down wages in their
destination country. I do reiterate that this is the _effect_. For instance,
I doubt that the WTO or its members have as a _goal_, that their global
"race to the bottom" exploitation of ready-labor in corrupt third-world
nations; but certainly it is an effect, and several years of mass
demonstrations have certainly brought it to their attention. We would hope
that there would be a similar awareness in Mexico and Central America that
there is a certain degree of resentment of illegal aliens, and that
discarding all accusations of racism or "cultural hegemonism", the economic
issue cannot be ignored. Flooding a country such as the US with cheap
illegal labor is the fastest way possible -- outside of open revolution --
to destroy the social systems and especially the labor and safety
regulations that make America such a fine place to live.
>
> The depression of wages is a symptom of the market saturation for an
> specific skill. And I'll leave it at that because I am now bored with all
> this nonsense and don't want to rattle your overloaded brains anymore.
My brains are hardly overloaded. They are merely annoyed. As to the specific
skill, it's not a specific skill so much as it's a flooding of the market
for unskilled labor, or the market where labor doesn't essentially include a
high proficiency in English.
The problem that I have with this is, primarily, that within the next few
months -- by June if I am not mistaken -- there will be no lifetime Welfare
recipient who has not exhausted their lifetime's limit of eligibility. That
means that there will be a significant number of people who will have no
income whatsoever and have no more skills than have the illegal aliens.
Indeed, many of the illegal aliens might have some significant skill, but
will lack a high proficiency in English as well as their green-card. The
point here is, in a very short time there will be a massive demand by
citizens for jobs presently "reserved" for illegal aliens. Pressures to
reduce wages will increase. And rather than see a WTO-style "race to the
bottom" happen in the US -- doubtless with massive lobbying in congress for
a repeal or restructuring of labor and safety regulations -- I would prefer
to put the pressure where it belongs, not on my fellow citizens, but on the
people who are not even supposed to be here.
>
> BTW, what does az.general has to do with any of this?
Arizona has been, for the last few years, the primary corridor for illegal
aliens entering from Mexico. I'm always curious to hear what Arizonans have
to say to people who tell them "get used to it, they've always been
traipsing through, they will always be traipsing through and you can't stop
it".
Ed Valle
news:a39sb7$3j6$1...@slb4.atl.mindspring.net...
>
> "Ed Valle" <edv...@azteca.net> wrote in message
> news:a39dr7$16li5l$2...@ID-85667.news.dfncis.de...
> >
>> and see why they are doing it.
>
> its international operations, but out of all international banks
> is the only bank who has been questioned by congressional
> hearings on such matters. You are better off blaming the
> Swiss banks on aiding corrupt officials and drug lords.
> But hey, I'd support a Citibank boycott.
>
Huh? Harry, please re-read what I wrote and think a little bit more about
this response of yours. Thanks.
>
> It was the U.S.government who helped freeze the assets
> of el "Sr. de los Cielos."
>
You can be sure of how grateful the Mexican people are of that. Specially
the families of the two police men killed in TJ last Friday.
>
> > 1. Multiple military interventions.
>
> Not all were bad.
>
And how those justify the ones that weren't?
>
> > 2. Political assesinations.
>
> Cold war casualties.
>
Repeat that to me again after the US suffers some of these.
>
> > 3. Cultural and Economic colonization.
>
> Given the size of U.S. goods, duh! You can say the
> same about Asian goods.
>
Economic, maybe. But please explain the cultural one. And how does it
justify it anyways?
>
> > 4. Economic and military support for regional
> > dictators.
>
> Latin America can't govern itself democratically,
> except Costa Rica.
>
I think I am going to stop taking you seriously after this one.
>
> > 5. Attraction and retention of highly educated people.
> > Also known as "Brain drain".
>
> Mostly from Asia and Europe.
>
There you go. You are another one of those patriots who demean and belittle
the accomplishments of Latinos. Way to go, Harry.
>
> > 6. Acts of war during peace time against countries
> > holding diplomatic relations.
>
> Explain.
>
The mining of the Nicaraguan harbor during the Reagan adminstration.
> >
>
> Ed, you are full of conspiracy theories. You are like
> those white supremacist types who conjure up Jewish
> conspiracies. Ok, governments officials are not altar
> boys, in this or any other country. The success of a
> nation ultimately lies on the character of its people. For
> example, neighborhoods in America, some are dirty
> and some are clean. The dirty ones are trashed by the
> residents of that neighborhood, the clean ones are clean
> because the residents try to keep it that way.
>
Thanks for the insults.
Ed.
Ed Valle
>
> Ed Valle wrote:
> >
> > To claim that the sole purpose for them to come here
> > is to drive the wages down is as stupid as saying that
> > they come here to see that the Spanish empire prevails
> > over the British empire. You of all people should have
> > caught that as you are, by far, the most intelligent and
> > fair person in API. I will discard this lapse of yours as
> > a fluke.
>
> Possibly there is an interpretation error. I don't in any
> way suggest that it is the _intent_ of the illegal aliens to
> drive down wages in their destination country. I do
> reiterate that this is the _effect_.
>
Hi Tiny,
There was no interpretation error. And the sentence from Shotgun was very
clear. I agree that you presented your argument in a more proper manner but
your falling for my piece-of-crap troll was what prompted this debacle,
specifically your: "And by the way, that you very much for your honesty in
stating that this isn't at all about 'people just looking for jobs and a
better life'; this is in fact a politically-directed Invasion".
There is no such thing as a "politically-directed Invasion".
>
> For instance, I doubt that the WTO or its members have
> as a _goal_, that their global "race to the bottom"
> exploitation of ready-labor in corrupt third-world nations;
> but certainly it is an effect, and several years of mass
> demonstrations have certainly brought it to their attention.
>
I agree. We can thank the American free enterprise system for that.
>
> We would hope that there would be a similar awareness
> in Mexico and Central America that there is a certain
> degree of resentment of illegal aliens, and that discarding
> all accusations of racism or "cultural hegemonism", the
> economic issue cannot be ignored.
>
You must be kidding me. There are all kinds of problems related to illegal
immigration in Mexico and Central America, specially in border towns. And
the people there are very much aware that the American Public is fed up with
this situation for the reasons that you have stated multiple times already.
Implying that people in LatinAmerica are stupid by not knowing this
diminishes your position in this debate.
>
> Flooding a country such as the US with cheap illegal
> labor is the fastest way possible -- outside of open
> revolution -- to destroy the social systems and especially
> the labor and safety regulations that make America such
> a fine place to live.
>
And so we come full circle now. You cannot deny with a straight face that it
is the responsibility of the Federal government to protect the borders. And
yet, they don't. You can blame people all you want about a supposed
"politically-directed Invasion" but the truth of the matter is that it is
your own government the main cuplrit for the current state of affairs and
not the people who cross the border. People who are starving, for whatever
reason, will try to feed their families any way they can. I am not sure if
you have any kids, but if you do, and if you have ever heard them cry of
hunger with you having nothing to give them, then you'll know what I am
talking about.
> >
> > The depression of wages is a symptom of the market
> > saturation for an specific skill. And I'll leave it at that
> > because I am now bored with all this nonsense and
> > don't want to rattle your overloaded brains anymore.
>
> My brains are hardly overloaded. They are merely
> annoyed. As to the specific skill, it's not a specific skill
> so much as it's a flooding of the market for unskilled
> labor, or the market where labor doesn't essentially
> include a high proficiency in English.
>
How many brains do you have? I am not sure at this point that you fully
understood what I said.
>
> The point here is, in a very short time there will be a
> massive demand by citizens for jobs presently
> "reserved" for illegal aliens.
>
You probably have no idea how absurd you sound when you say these things.
"Jobs presently 'reserved' for illegal aliens"? What in the world are you
talking about? Please elaborate and explain to me who "reserves" what jobs
for illegals. Thanks.
>
> Pressures to reduce wages will increase. And rather
> than see a WTO-style "race to the bottom" happen
> in the US -- doubtless with massive lobbying in
> congress for a repeal or restructuring of labor and
> safety regulations -- I would prefer to put the pressure
> where it belongs, not on my fellow citizens, but on the
> people who are not even supposed to be here.
>
A very noble gesture, to be sure. I think you got your work cut out for you.
> >
> > BTW, what does az.general has to do with any of this?
>
> Arizona has been, for the last few years, the primary
> corridor for illegal aliens entering from Mexico. I'm
> always curious to hear what Arizonans have to say to
> people who tell them "get used to it, they've always been
> traipsing through, they will always be traipsing through
> and you can't stop it".
>
You should have crossposted to az.politics then as the creation of
newsgroups in the AZ hierarchy hardly qualifies for these discussions.
Ed.
Harry
> "Harry" <harr...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:a39sb7$3j6$1...@slb4.atl.mindspring.net...
> >
> > "Ed Valle" <edv...@azteca.net> wrote in message
> > news:a39dr7$16li5l$2...@ID-85667.news.dfncis.de...
> > >
> > > I'd ask you to check Citicorp's forays into LatinAmerica
> >> and see why they are doing it.
> >
> > You are right about Citibank not having a clean record in
> > its international operations, but out of all international banks
> > is the only bank who has been questioned by congressional
> > hearings on such matters. You are better off blaming the
> > Swiss banks on aiding corrupt officials and drug lords.
> > But hey, I'd support a Citibank boycott.
> >
>
> Huh? Harry, please re-read what I wrote and think a little bit more about
> this response of yours. Thanks.
>
> >
> > It was the U.S.government who helped freeze the assets
> > of el "Sr. de los Cielos."
> >
>
> You can be sure of how grateful the Mexican people are of that. Specially
> the families of the two police men killed in TJ last Friday.
>
> >
> > > 1. Multiple military interventions.
> >
> > Not all were bad.
> >
>
> And how those justify the ones that weren't?
>
> >
> > > 2. Political assesinations.
> >
> > Cold war casualties.
> >
>
> Repeat that to me again after the US suffers some of these.
>
Thousands of U.S. casualties in Vietnam and Korea, so what are you talking
about? The U.S. has talked the talk and walked the walk.
> >
> > > 3. Cultural and Economic colonization.
> >
> > Given the size of U.S. goods, duh! You can say the
> > same about Asian goods.
> >
>
> Economic, maybe. But please explain the cultural one. And how does it
> justify it anyways?
>
I don't see any major cultural influence from America towards Latin America.
Latin Americans are very into their own culture. Otherwise, we wouldn't have
such a huge spanish media in the U.S.
> >
> > > 4. Economic and military support for regional
> > > dictators.
> >
> > Latin America can't govern itself democratically,
> > except Costa Rica.
> >
>
> I think I am going to stop taking you seriously after this one.
>
Com'on stay with me.
> >
> > > 5. Attraction and retention of highly educated people.
> > > Also known as "Brain drain".
> >
> > Mostly from Asia and Europe.
> >
>
> There you go. You are another one of those patriots who demean and
belittle
> the accomplishments of Latinos. Way to go, Harry.
>
> >
> > > 6. Acts of war during peace time against countries
> > > holding diplomatic relations.
> >
> > Explain.
> >
>
> The mining of the Nicaraguan harbor during the Reagan adminstration.
>
Again, communism was a big threat to the western hemisphere at that time.
I'm beginning to think you are communist, are you?
> > >
> >
> > Ed, you are full of conspiracy theories. You are like
> > those white supremacist types who conjure up Jewish
> > conspiracies. Ok, governments officials are not altar
> > boys, in this or any other country. The success of a
> > nation ultimately lies on the character of its people. For
> > example, neighborhoods in America, some are dirty
> > and some are clean. The dirty ones are trashed by the
> > residents of that neighborhood, the clean ones are clean
> > because the residents try to keep it that way.
> >
>
> Thanks for the insults.
>
I wasn't trying to insult you or any country. Sorry if you took it that way.
It is sad, if you ask me, to see hard working people living in a "failed
state." Nothing to joke about.
> Ed.
>
>
>
Ed Valle
"Toniuolevaiavea Fonoimoana" <sam...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020130121819...@mb-cb.aol.com...
>
> the reason Hispanicks come/sneak into the USA is
> that they are genetically unable to create any
> semblance of their own successful country. That
> genetic ability belongs to the peoples of Central
> European heritage.
>
Hi Toniuolevaiavea,
You have removed soc.culture.mexican from the newgroups list to reply to me
and left only alt.politics.immigration.
I'll take that as conceding capitulation since you started this thread in
this group and now you have abandoned it. It is understandable, since that
would be the only way that you could reply to me without having your ass
kicked up and down the street. I will now close these proceedings and stop
responding to anyone in this thread. (Sorry, Harry.)
Take care of yourself, bud.
Ed.
Tiny Human Ferret
>
> "Tiny Human Ferret" <ixnayamsp...@earthops.net> wrote in message
> news:3C587B37...@earthops.net...
> >
> > Ed Valle wrote:
> > >
> > > To claim that the sole purpose for them to come here
> > > is to drive the wages down is as stupid as saying that
> > > they come here to see that the Spanish empire prevails
> > > over the British empire. You of all people should have
> > > caught that as you are, by far, the most intelligent and
> > > fair person in API. I will discard this lapse of yours as
> > > a fluke.
> >
> > Possibly there is an interpretation error. I don't in any
> > way suggest that it is the _intent_ of the illegal aliens to
> > drive down wages in their destination country. I do
> > reiterate that this is the _effect_.
> >
>
> Hi Tiny,
>
> There was no interpretation error. And the sentence from Shotgun was very
> clear. I agree that you presented your argument in a more proper manner but
> your falling for my piece-of-crap troll was what prompted this debacle,
> specifically your: "And by the way, that you very much for your honesty in
> stating that this isn't at all about 'people just looking for jobs and a
> better life'; this is in fact a politically-directed Invasion".
>
> There is no such thing as a "politically-directed Invasion".
Of course there is. Witness the crowds of idiots chanting such slogans as
"We didn't cross the border, the border crosses us". Now these may be the
slogans of Chicanos rather than of Mexicans in the US, but it's pretty
evident that Mexican government officials, specifically Jorge Casteneda,
support these groups -- with propaganda if with nothing else.
with the expectation of such Useful Fools in the US to provide aid and
comfort, why would the _coyotes_ not get a lot of new clients?
>
> >
> > For instance, I doubt that the WTO or its members have
> > as a _goal_, that their global "race to the bottom"
> > exploitation of ready-labor in corrupt third-world nations;
> > but certainly it is an effect, and several years of mass
> > demonstrations have certainly brought it to their attention.
> >
>
> I agree. We can thank the American free enterprise system for that.
No, I think we can thank the emerging Transnational Corporate Feudalism for
that. The American "free enterprise" system has long been opposed,
successfuly, by organized Labor and related movements.
>
> >
> > We would hope that there would be a similar awareness
> > in Mexico and Central America that there is a certain
> > degree of resentment of illegal aliens, and that discarding
> > all accusations of racism or "cultural hegemonism", the
> > economic issue cannot be ignored.
> >
>
> You must be kidding me. There are all kinds of problems related to illegal
> immigration in Mexico and Central America, specially in border towns. And
> the people there are very much aware that the American Public is fed up with
> this situation for the reasons that you have stated multiple times already.
> Implying that people in LatinAmerica are stupid by not knowing this
> diminishes your position in this debate.
I'm not implying that they're stupid. I am implying that they should
consider the repercussions should the present situation continue. Mexico is
to be commended for their efforts to control Mexico's southern border, which
because of the short length is much more defensible against "extraordinary
migration" than is the border between the US and Mexico.
>
> >
> > Flooding a country such as the US with cheap illegal
> > labor is the fastest way possible -- outside of open
> > revolution -- to destroy the social systems and especially
> > the labor and safety regulations that make America such
> > a fine place to live.
> >
>
> And so we come full circle now. You cannot deny with a straight face that it
> is the responsibility of the Federal government to protect the borders. And
> yet, they don't.
I blame corporate influence on the Clinton Administration, quite successful
when backed up the Democrat Party platitudes. And I blame the Bush II
Administration for accepting the "status quo" for deals worked out between
"corporate America" and "the government". I hope you saw or have read the
"State of the Union" address. President Bush says he will guard the borders
properly. He will not be re-elected if he does not, nor will any element of
Congress which fails to assiduously pursue total control of the borders,
ports, and non-citizens present within the US. We want to be "safe at home".
Control of borders, ports, and alien presence in the US is required. Every
other country does this. Why does Mexico insist that the US should not do
this? Is Mexico insane? do they think we are? Based on past performance by
the US, if this is what Mexico thinks, Mexico is probably right. But we took
our medicine after 9/11. And we the people of the United States will be very
vigilant about making sure that the government takes its medicine, and gets
better, because I think they know by now that if they can't do the work
because they're too crazy, they're going to get fired.
> You can blame people all you want about a supposed
> "politically-directed Invasion" but the truth of the matter is that it is
> your own government the main cuplrit for the current state of affairs and
> not the people who cross the border. People who are starving, for whatever
> reason, will try to feed their families any way they can. I am not sure if
> you have any kids, but if you do, and if you have ever heard them cry of
> hunger with you having nothing to give them, then you'll know what I am
> talking about.
I have no kids. When I hear children cry, when I hear them cry loudly, my
instinct is that they are being killed, and that what is killing them must
die. Where is it, how can I kill it? I expect nothing less from others. But
because I expect nothing less from others, first, I want to make sure that
those children don't cry. But it's most important to me to make sure that
the children of my neighbors don't cry, I don't care as much about the
children of people who live far-enough from me so that I can't hear their
children.
And I might ask, if they know they can't feed their children, why did they
have them? If they know they cannot feed a child, how can they give birth to
one, how can they even have sex without contraceptives?
Seriously, because some people don't have any self-control and then have
children for whom they cannot provide, how does this become my problem,
unless they bring their children to take the food from my own children's
mouths? I can decide that it is good to share. But when so many come that
even with sharing, there can never be enough, what solution is there but to
stop people from coming?
Surely you can understand this. Locusts only want to feed their children.
But when they descend, nothing remains and they fly away hungry, leaving
famine behind them. It's better to prevent them from landing. If we were
only talking about locusts, it would be better to eradicate them where they
breed. But we are not talking about locusts, we are talking about human
people who cannot be eradicated where they breed. But since they are human
people, they can choose to not breed to the point where, like locusts, they
have devoured their own land and must swarm to another.
I know Mexico has done a great job of reducing the reproduction rate of
their people, but clearly it's not enough. And so a swarm comes from Mexico,
or even just transiting Mexico, headed for the US where they will devour our
fields, and condemn us to listening to our children cry with hunger.
And then, what will we kill? Not _our_ children.
>
> > >
> > > The depression of wages is a symptom of the market
> > > saturation for an specific skill. And I'll leave it at that
> > > because I am now bored with all this nonsense and
> > > don't want to rattle your overloaded brains anymore.
> >
> > My brains are hardly overloaded. They are merely
> > annoyed. As to the specific skill, it's not a specific skill
> > so much as it's a flooding of the market for unskilled
> > labor, or the market where labor doesn't essentially
> > include a high proficiency in English.
> >
>
> How many brains do you have? I am not sure at this point that you fully
> understood what I said.
Address the issue, not my brains.
>
> >
> > The point here is, in a very short time there will be a
> > massive demand by citizens for jobs presently
> > "reserved" for illegal aliens.
> >
>
> You probably have no idea how absurd you sound when you say these things.
> "Jobs presently 'reserved' for illegal aliens"? What in the world are you
> talking about? Please elaborate and explain to me who "reserves" what jobs
> for illegals. Thanks.
Unscrupulous employers "reserve" jobs for illegal aliens. It's simple, they
offer dangerous employment for pay which is below what the law requires, or
which the conditions demand. For instance, in climates where the sun is
deadly to norte~os who cannot get a heavy tan, they insist that all work be
done in the hours where the sun is most deadly. They won't take a split
shift, they don't offer siesta even to Mexicans. Only the indios or blacks
can survive this, and even they find this to be intolerable. But since the
Mexican indios can take US dollars back to rural Mexico they find this to be
worth the trouble, the pay is sufficient, back in the village they are rich
and become benefactors to their communities and can even gain prestiege
through "potlatch". For the American worker who pays American rent and has
to save up for an American school for their children, it's an impossible
job, ridiculous pay in deadly conditions. Only a certain class of illegal
alien could actually profit from this sort of work. This is how these
positions are reserved for illegal aliens.
To allow even the most pale gringo to work these jobs, all that's needed is
an early start, siesta for the worst part of the daytime, and a long evening
shift. But even while they hire illegal aliens and underpay, they claim that
having a 14-hour shift with a six-hour siesta is violating the law. It's
just an excuse to profiteer off of the illegals.
>
> >
> > Pressures to reduce wages will increase. And rather
> > than see a WTO-style "race to the bottom" happen
> > in the US -- doubtless with massive lobbying in
> > congress for a repeal or restructuring of labor and
> > safety regulations -- I would prefer to put the pressure
> > where it belongs, not on my fellow citizens, but on the
> > people who are not even supposed to be here.
> >
>
> A very noble gesture, to be sure. I think you got your work cut out for you.
You bet. I don't take no small jobs.
>
> > >
> > > BTW, what does az.general has to do with any of this?
> >
> > Arizona has been, for the last few years, the primary
> > corridor for illegal aliens entering from Mexico. I'm
> > always curious to hear what Arizonans have to say to
> > people who tell them "get used to it, they've always been
> > traipsing through, they will always be traipsing through
> > and you can't stop it".
> >
>
> You should have crossposted to az.politics then as the creation of
> newsgroups in the AZ hierarchy hardly qualifies for these discussions.
Ah, that would be news:az.config
I know about this stuff, PS, next time you are in news:alt.config or
news:config be sure to say hi to Fluffy for me.
Divergent
En cambio lo que ahora son los USA sí eran colonia inglesa... ¿y en lo que
son los USA no hicieron todo lo que dices y cosas peores los ingleses ?
Y mas aun, Méjico SÍ es ahora colonia gringa... ¿Y acaso no están hurtándole
a Méjico su identidad a través de la llamada globalización? ¿ no están
sometiendo a su pueblo las multinacionales que se trasladan allí para
corromper a sindicatos y funcionadorios y poder explotar a los trabajadores?
¿No están esclavizando a mejicanos en lo que era territorio mejicano y les
fue rapiñado por el ejército gringo (California)?
¡¡¡¡Vamos hombre!!
Toniuolevaiavea Fonoimoana
<<I'll take that as conceding capitulation since you started this thread in
this group and now you have abandoned it>>
not at all. In fact, it is people like Madigin and you that I have made to look
like a fool, so to save face, you people no longer want to debate.
faitau Tusi Pa'ia
Toniuolevaiavea Fonoimoana
<<Name one person who has defended the Spanish>>
name me one Mexican that ever stood up to the Spanish. You people are so in
love wiht them and how they destroyed evry aspecty of native Mexican society,
that you sneka into the USA, and in your love for the Spanish, are the ONLY
immigrants that
1) refuse to accept English as our language, instead choosing to propogate the
loser Spanish langauge. Not Nahuatl.
2) refuse to give your kids American names, insteading choosing to honor the
Spansih by going out of the way to give Spanish names to your kids. And not
Nahuatl names.
PATHETIC!!!
faitau Tusi Pa'ia
Richard
<snip>
"Tiny Human Ferret" <ixnayamsp...@earthops.net> wrote in message
news:3C58D061...@earthops.net...
<snip>
> > > For instance, I doubt that the WTO or its members have
> > > as a _goal_, that their global "race to the bottom"
> > > exploitation of ready-labor in corrupt third-world nations;
> > > but certainly it is an effect, and several years of mass
> > > demonstrations have certainly brought it to their attention.
> > >
> >
> > I agree. We can thank the American free enterprise system for that.
>
> No, I think we can thank the emerging Transnational Corporate Feudalism
for
> that. The American "free enterprise" system has long been opposed,
> successfuly, by organized Labor and related movements.
<snip>
Untrue! Our labor movement is the backbone of middle class society on the
planet. Euro-Unions provide a solid Democratic foundation for every
successful country from the North Sea to the Miditerrainian. Mexico and
South America has consistently suffered from corrupt and violent powers who
abuse, torture and kill our organizins representatives. If unions were
allowed to fluorish in these countries, there would not be the need to cross
borders.
<snip>
> > > > The depression of wages is a symptom of the market
> > > > saturation for an specific skill. And I'll leave it at that
> > > > because I am now bored with all this nonsense and
> > > > don't want to rattle your overloaded brains anymore.
<snip>
What a moronic and simplistic remark! The difference in the skill levels
between a trained Journeyman and an illiterate undocumented person is
tremendous. Yet we see corporations attempting to use these people every
day. Untrained people, unable to converse, communicate in the native tongue
add life threatening danger to modern jobsites. Even so, our unions welcome
these persons, and at the unions expense, train them to be better qualified
workers. This nonsense about saturation is ludicrous! do you have an
agenda you are afraid to share?
<snip>
> > >
> > > My brains are hardly overloaded. They are merely
> > > annoyed. As to the specific skill, it's not a specific skill
> > > so much as it's a flooding of the market for unskilled
> > > labor, or the market where labor doesn't essentially
> > > include a high proficiency in English.
> > >
> >
> > How many brains do you have? I am not sure at this point that you fully
> > understood what I said.
<snip>
Again, with the moronic insults? Is this a discussion or a flame war? If
it's a discussion, your out of line to make comments like that one. If it's
a flame war, your're boring.
<snip>
> Address the issue, not my brains.
<snip>
Amen!
<snip>
R
Squanto
Who's this dingaling????
Squanto
Divergent <not...@nohay.com> wrote in message news:1012458911.61627@srv0...
Back to work, vato. Your masters need your cheap labor.
Arturo Magidin
I see your honesty is about par with your knowledge of
history: nonexistent.
You made claims that you could not justify. When asked to justify
them, your replies amply demonstrated your ignorance and your
dishonesty.
If you think that means that you made anybody look like a fool, you
must have been looking in the mirror.
Go away. You are a liar, an ignoramus, and an idiot. There's no
further need for you to provide evidence to any of those facts.
<*plonk*>
======================================================================
"It's not denial. I'm just very selective about
what I accept as reality."
--- Calvin ("Calvin and Hobbes")
======================================================================
Arturo Magidin
mag...@math.berkeley.edu
Ed Valle
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!
The guy looked at his friend's face and says: "Boy, it looks like someone
gave you a good pasting, man!"
The friend says: "Yeah, but you should see the other guy's fist."
It is an honor to be compared to Dr. Magidin. And yes, you're a better troll
then me since you made me respond after I said I wouldn't answer to anyone
in this thread anymore.
Congratulations, you won the debate.
Ed.
Toniuolevaiavea Fonoimoana
<<You made claims that you could not justify. When asked to justify them, your
replies amply demonstrated your ignorance and your
dishonesty.>>
It was you that didn;t want to debate with me anymore, not the other way
around. Because I made you look like a complete fool.
Let me ask you something, Senyor, with your hatred of the USA obvious, why do
you and other Hispanicks with similar feelings insist on living here in the
USA?
faitau Tusi Pa'ia
Toniuolevaiavea Fonoimoana
<<It is an honor to be compared to Dr. Magidin.>>
Look at that scumbag. We set him up withj a professorship at Cal-Berkeley, and
he in return thanks us by going out of his way to denigrate the many
achievements of the USA/Anglos/UK. Do you people have any shame at all? I have
never ever in my short life met such an unprincipled people as Latin Americans
with Spanish ancestry. Spain sent its scum/derelicts to Latin America. That's
why you see so many unprincipled people like Senyór Madigan.
faitau Tusi Pa'ia
Arturo Magidin
Toniuolevaiavea Fonoimoana <sam...@aol.com> wrote:
>Senyor Madigan says:
><<You made claims that you could not justify. When asked to justify them, your
>replies amply demonstrated your ignorance and your
>dishonesty.>>
>
>It was you that didn;t want to debate with me anymore,
Not wanting to debate does not equal not being able to back up one's
claims.
> not the other way around.
Funny. As a simple google search will show, each of your claims was
either shot down, or answered, and you simply vanished, or repeated
the shot-down claim.
That looks like being an idiot to me.
> Because I made you look like a complete fool.
If being able to back up one's assertions, being able to shoot down
just about every claim you made because you either didn't know what
you were talking about (such as your claim that "anglos invented
steel", damascus steel notwithstanding), or because you had made some
stupid error (such as confusing steel with iron) is being a fool, I
don't want to be a wise man.
>Let me ask you something, Senyor
You still haven't learned how to spell, have you?
And, to you, it's either "Doctor" or "Professor". Like I told you
before, you are talking to your betters, so try to show some respect.
> with your hatred of the USA obvious,
Only an idiot like you would make such a stupid interpretation.
You asked why anybody would want to speak Spanish. I asked back why
you would want to speak English. Your reply betrayed your ignorance,
by claiming that the english-speaking world had done, altruistically
(you do know what the word means, right? If not, look it up) and out
of the goodness of their heart, more through ingenuity to better the
lives of everyone on the planet.
I asked you to back up that claim. In doing so, I even gave you
->one<- example you could use (the lightning rod).
You failed. Miserably. You claimed inventions which were not
inventions (such as 'electricity'); you claimed inventions which were
neither altruistically, nor were done to "better the lives of others."
You tried to claim inventions that were not made by english-speakers
(such as the sextant, steel, and television), and you made claims you
could not back up when challenged.
But you think that means I have "a hatred of the US"? Because I showed
that ->one<- English-speaker is an ignorant fool (namely, you)?
Thanks for proving it again.
The only person making stupid generalizations and false readings (not
to mention lying his ass off) is you.
And you are so proud of English? Learn to spell it right, you wanker.
> why do
>you and other Hispanicks with similar feelings insist on living here in the
>USA?
Who are these "Hispanicks" you keep talking about? The dictionary
contains no such word.
And for the n-th time, you ignorant moron, I do not leave "there" in
the US.
"Taum autem eras excors, ut tota in oratione tua tecum ipse pugnares,
non modo non cohaerentia inter se diceres, sed maxime disiuncta ataque
contraria, ut non tanta mecum quanta tivi trecum esset contentio."
- Cicero
Since I suspect you are too stupid to know any latin, I'll do you the
favor of translating this little piece of classic literature for
you. It seems to apply to your idiocies to the letter.
"You were such a moron that throughout your speech you were at war
with yourself, firing out statements which were not just inconsistent,
but which were utterly devoid of any coherence or logic, to the point
where you adversary in battle stopped being me and became yourself."
The record is quite clear. You are ignorant. You are a liar. You are
an idiot. And you are a coward.
You don't understand English, you can't spell it right. You ask
leading question, you do ad hominems attacks, and you commit just
about eveyr logical fallacy in the book.
No wonder people don't want to "debate" you. The company of morons is
not something one wishes to become accostumed to.
======================================================================
"Yo no estudio para escribir, ni menos para ense~ar,
[...] sino solo para ver si con estudiar ignoro menos."
[My purpose in studying is not to write, much less to
teach, but simply to see whether studying makes
me less ignorant.]
--- _Respuesta a Sor Filotea de la Cruz_
Sor Juana Ines de la Cruz (Juana de Asbaje y Ramirez)
======================================================================
Arturo Magidin
mag...@math.berkeley.edu
Arturo Magidin
Toniuolevaiavea Fonoimoana <sam...@aol.com> wrote:
>Look at that scumbag. We set him up withj a professorship at
Cal-Berkeley, and
First, I am not a professor at Berkeley. I have never claimed to be
one. If you had eyes and read the headers of the messages, you would
know that.
Second, even if I were, in no way would you be able to claim ANY doing
in that.
So stop saying "we", you wanker. You would probably faint in a
university, you would be so scared. And you would get kicked out
before the fist semester was out. You see, in a university, we don't
tolerate ignorant idiots.
And thirdly, as I pointed out to you when you first tried to make a
claim like that, my stay at UC Berkeley was paid for by the National
University in Mexico. So you can't even claim to have been a part of
that through your taxes.
>he in return thanks us by going out of his way to denigrate the many
>achievements of the USA/Anglos/UK.
Liar. I did no such thing. In fact, I even mentioned one before you
opened your big mouth.
What I ->did<- do was prove that you have no clue. Of all the things
you tried to push, only two were "achievements of the US/Anglos" (I
see you have now lyingly expanded that to the UK; I guess you finally
looked up where Scotland was, and you want to claim Watts
again...). Each of those I answered with an achievement by a
hispanic.
If anybody here is denigrating others by their race or language, it is
you.
The only English speaker I denigrate is you. And it isn't even that
hard, you are that big an idiot.
I mean, here you are, trying to claim you are proud of your English
heritage, and you can't even spell right.
How much more of a wanker can you be?
======================================================================
"Certo scio, occisam saepe sapere plus multo suem."
[I am quite sure that a stuck pig is regularly more discerning than
you]
-- Plautus, Miles Gloriosus
======================================================================
Arturo Magidin
mag...@math.berkeley.edu
Bastered
wrote:
You think working americans like globalization any more than mexicans?
The mexican klepto elite will gladly do anything to enrich themselves,
and they look on their people as serfs to be bought and sold. That's
what mexicans are, for wealthier mexicans. Globalization is a big step
up for there worthless hispanic asses. Poor mexicans do nothing but
bring that crap with them, even if they don't mean to, by bringing
their mexican national culture and spastic dicks. Mexicans are not the
beneficiaries or inheritors of our more egalitarian culture, they are
the death of it. Don't EVEN speak your burrito breath about what YOUR
people don't get in America, or how bad WE are. Ignorant destructive
shits.
--
There are some ideas so preposterous that only an intellectual could believe them.
David Eduardo
> Eduardo Valley dice:
> <<Name one person who has defended the Spanish>>
>
> name me one Mexican that ever stood up to the Spanish.
Ever heard of the Grito de Dolores? Thousands upon thousands of Mexicans
joined in against the Spaniards, eventually driving them form Mexico.
Toniuolevaiavea Fonoimoana
faitau Tusi Pa'ia
Anthea
Bastered wrote:
Wowwwwwwww. One little racist dumbarse trying to do a little flame with us. So lovely!
PD: i'm not mexican, so don't try that burrito crap with me. That wouldn't work.
>
>
> --
> There are some ideas so preposterous that only an intellectual could believe them.
--
Anthea.
El cielo por el clima y el infierno por la compañía.
http://usuarios.tripod.es/Biblioteka/Anthea.html
http://community.webshots.com/user/ynys
Toniuolevaiavea Fonoimoana
<<First, I am not a professor at Berkeley.>>
so why is your e-mail "mag...@math.berkeley.edu "?
<<So stop saying "we", you wanker. You would probably faint in a university,
you would be so scared. And you would get kicked out
before the fist semester was out.>>
Oh yeah, Senyor? I have a BS in mechanical engineering.
<<What I ->did<- do was prove that you have no clue. Of all the things you
tried to push, only two were "achievements of the US/Anglos">>
OK, then you lkist the achievements/accomplishments of Mexicans Hispanicks..
faitau Tusi Pa'ia
Toniuolevaiavea Fonoimoana
<<You still haven't learned how to spell, have you?>>
Is "The Grand Canyon" misspelled?
faitau Tusi Pa'ia
Toniuolevaiavea Fonoimoana
<<you either didn't know what
you were talking about (such as your claim that "anglos invented
steel", damascus steel notwithstanding)>>
STEEL ALLOYS
Alloy steels are made of steel combined with other metals such as nickel,
chromium or vanadium. The result of combining the metals is a steel product
that has increased hardness, strength, durability, malleability, and resistance
to corrosion.
The first alloy was developed by the ENGLISH physicist Michael Faraday in
the 1830's. His experimentation in the area of electromagnetic induction
(another invention by the white man) and electrolysis resulted in an
iron-chromium alloy. In 1833, ENGLISH mettalurgist Sir Robert Hadfield invented
manganese steel at his father's steelmaking firm. Manganese gave the steel
strength and resistance to wear. He also invented silicon steel and other alloy
steels. Hadfield erroneously assumed that chromium impaired corrosion
resisatnce, otherwise he might have discovered stainless steel.
An AMERICAN, Elwood Haynes (1857-1925), developed several alloy steels. In
1881, he invented tungsten chrome steel which retains its strength at high
temperatures. A chromium/nickel alloy followed in 1897, in 1900 he introduced
one of cobalt/chromium; and in 1911 came stainless steel.
Building on Haynes' work, other scientists developed stainless steels.
GERMAN scientists P Monnartz and W Borchers were among the first to realize the
usefulness of stainless steels. However, the ENGLISH metallurgist, Harry
Brearly, receives the most credit for developing stainless steel. He accidently
discovered that nickel-chromium steel made a good anti-corrosion alloy when he
found a sample of it among a pile of discarded experimental scraps with its
shine still intact. In 1912, Brearly proposed that the new alloy be used for
naval guns. By 1914, he had proved its usefulness as a material for cutlery and
obtained an American patent on it in 1915.
Frederick Mark Becket, a Canadian-AMERICAN metallurgist, developed the
silicon reduction process for the mass production of low-carbon ferroalloys and
stainless steels. John Matthews of Washington DC participated in the
development of permanent magnet and corrosion-resistant steels, inoculated iron
and high speed vanadium steels in the early 190's. Matthews received the Andrew
Carnegie Gold Medal for Research for his work.
IN 1912, GERMAN researchers Edward Maurer and Benno Strauss developed the
austentitic group of stainless steels which are heat-resistant and
shock-resistant, making them attractive for use in cookware and chemical
equipment.
The steel industry grew out of the need for stronger and more easily produced
metals. Technological advances in steelmaking during the last half of the 19th
cent. played a key role in creating modern economies dependent on rails, autos,
girders, bridges, and a variety of other steel products. Iron making can be
traced as far back as 3,500 B.C. in Armenia. The Bessemer process, created
independently by Henry Bessemer in England and William Kelly in the United
States during the 1850s, allowed the mass production of low-cost steel; the
open hearth process, first introduced in the United States in 1888, made it
easier to use domestic iron ores. By the 1880s, the growing demand for steel
rails made the United States the world's largest producer. The open hearth
process dominated the steel industry between 1910 and 1960, when it converted
to the oxygen process, which produces steel faster, and the electric furnace
process, which makes it easier to produce alloys such as stainless steel. After
World War II, the U.S. steel industry faced increased competition from Japanese
and European producers, who rebuilt and modernized their industries. Later,
many Third World countries, such as Brazil, built their own steel industries,
and large U.S. steelmakers faced increased competition from smaller, nonunion
mills. The U.S. produced about half of the world's steel in 1945; in 1999 it
was the second largest producer, with 12% of the world market, behind China and
ahead of Japan and Russia. Since the 1970s, growing competition and the
increasing availability of alternative materials, such as plastic, slowed steel
industry growth; employment in the United States steel industry dropped from
2.5 million in 1974 to to less than a million in 1998. Global production stood
at 773 million tons in 1997, down from 786 million tons in 1988.
faitau Tusi Pa'ia
Toniuolevaiavea Fonoimoana
<<You asked why anybody would want to speak Spanish. I asked back why
you would want to speak English.>>
The English speakers have given the world so much and have provided me with a
life that so few people in this world can only dream of. Why do you have a
problem with that, Senyor?
faitau Tusi Pa'ia
Toniuolevaiavea Fonoimoana
<<you claimed inventions which were
neither altruistically, nor were done to "better the lives of others.">>
what was Alexander Graham Bell's motivation for inventing the telephone?
faitau Tusi Pa'ia
Toniuolevaiavea Fonoimoana
<<Who are these "Hispanicks" you keep talking about? The dictionary
Main Entry: His·pan·ick
Pronunciation: hi-'spa-nik
Function: adjective
Etymology: Latin hispanicus, from Hispania Iberian Peninsula, Spain
Date: circa 1889
: of, relating to, or being a person of Latin American descent living in the
U.S.; especially : one of Cuban, Mexican, or Porto Rican origin
- Hispanick noun
- His·pan·i·cism /-'spa-n&-"si-z&m/ noun
- His·pan·i·cist /-sist/ noun
- His·pan·i·cize /-"sIz/ transitive verb
faitau Tusi Pa'ia
Divergent
y disfruta con el onanismo que tanto os gusta practicar a los
anglosajones...
"Squanto" <lara...@hotmail.com> escribió en el mensaje
news:a3bm1r$ff$1...@ins22.netins.net...
Divergent
PEOPLE THAT LIVES IN:
Chile, argentina, urugay, brasil, peru, ecuador, colombia, venezuela,
panama, el salvador, nicaragua, cuba, mejico, jamaica, ....
Who gave you the right to steal that name from a whole continente?
"Bastered" <ilu...@zoidberg.net> escribió en el mensaje
news:b1tj5ukj4lccjlodu...@4ax.com...
Arturo Magidin
Toniuolevaiavea Fonoimoana <sam...@aol.com> wrote:
>Senyor Arturo Madigan says:
Too stupid to spell "Se~or" correclty, too stupid to copy my last name
correctly, and too insecure to address me correctly.
What a wanker.
><<you either didn't know what
>you were talking about (such as your claim that "anglos invented
>steel", damascus steel notwithstanding)>>
>
>STEEL ALLOYS
>Alloy steels are made of steel combined with other metals such as nickel,
>chromium or vanadium. The result of combining the metals is a steel product
>that has increased hardness, strength, durability, malleability, and resistance
>to corrosion.
[.snip.]
I see you are still plagiarizing.
Son, you are an ignorant fool.
I've told you several times to look up "damascus steel", didn't I?
Look at what you quote here:
> The first alloy was developed by the ENGLISH physicist Michael Faraday in
>the 1830's.
Are you so ignorant that you did not know that swords and armor of
steel existed in the middle ages? That japanese samurai swords were
made of steel? That the crusades were fought with swords of steel
vs. scimitars of steel?
If all you can do is quote without reading, and not realize that they
are talking about ->modern<- steel factory production, you aren't
worth the effort.
Especially when I told you so already.
======================================================================
"Nec sapit pueri instar bimuli tremula patris dormientis in ulna."
-- Catullus, Poem 20
======================================================================
Arturo Magidin
mag...@math.berkeley.edu
Arturo Magidin
Toniuolevaiavea Fonoimoana <sam...@aol.com> wrote:
>Senyor Madigan says:
><<You still haven't learned how to spell, have you?>>
>
>Is "The Grand Canyon" misspelled?
That's English, you moron.
"Se~or" is a Spanish word, not an English one. It's spelled with a
tilde over the n, not with an n and a y. Why don't you check a
dictionary?
As for Spanish, "grand canyon" would be spelled "Gran Ca~on."
======================================================================
"Mufrius, non magister."
-- Petronius, Satyricon
======================================================================
Arturo Magidin
mag...@math.berkeley.edu
Arturo Magidin
None. But that is not what you originally claimed. You originally
claimed you were proud of speaking English because the "anglos" had
done more, altruistically, than any other single "race" in the planet,
in the form of inventions made for "the betterment of the entire human
race."
As such, your original statement was ludicrous.
As was your original question regarding why "anybody would want to
speak Spanish."
By the way, is it so hard for you to string two sentences together,
that you have to reply with 10 different replies to a single post?
Or is that just your Usenet incompetence showing up again?
======================================================================
"Quod minimum specimen in te ingenii?"
-- Cicero, In Pisonem
======================================================================
Arturo Magidin
mag...@math.berkeley.edu
Arturo Magidin
You already made that stupid claim once before. Did you learn that in
grade school, and did you swallow it whole?
Money.
Yes, Bell wanted to help her deaf sister. The telephone itself wasn't
what he wanted to help her ->with<- (tell me, oh witless one, how
exactly do you think that a telephone was supposed to help her
->deaf<- sister?)
With the money he got, he set up a school for the deaf. That does not
mean that the invention itself was made for the betterment of mankind.
You made a stupid statement. You tried to stand by it. You failed.
(Let me guess: you also think the story of Washington and the
cherry-tree is word-for-word true...)
======================================================================
"Vastus animus"
-- Sallust, Bellum Catilinae
======================================================================
Arturo Magidin
mag...@math.berkeley.edu
Arturo Magidin
What dictionary was this from? From Merriam-Webster collegiate
contains no such word. It, however, contains "Hispanic", without a k
at the end.
For instance, try looking up "Hispanick" at
http://www.m-w.com/netdict.htm
You will get no such word, but suggestion to try "Hispanic", without
the k.
And lo and behold, what do we find?
Word for word what you quoted above... except that "Hispanic" is
written correctly, without a k, and that "Puerto Rican" is spelled
correctly as well, whereas you copied it incorrectly.
So, on top of everything else, you are now lying on purpose.
And you can't even copy a correct spelling.
Just how low is it you intend to go, son?
======================================================================
"Certo scio, occisam saepe sapere plus multo suem."
Arturo Magidin
Toniuolevaiavea Fonoimoana <sam...@aol.com> wrote:
>Senyór Magidan says:
><<First, I am not a professor at Berkeley.>>
>
>so why is your e-mail "mag...@math.berkeley.edu "?
None of your business. My headers state clearly that although I post
from there, I do not work there.
But just for the sake of it, I already told you: I was a graduate
student there. I have an e-mail account there which I pay for. I use
it.
><<So stop saying "we", you wanker. You would probably faint in a university,
>you would be so scared. And you would get kicked out
>before the fist semester was out.>>
>
>Oh yeah, Senyor?
There is no such word. Why don't you check in your on-line dictionary,
as you did with "hispanic"? Then you can falsify the entry.
>I have a BS in mechanical engineering.
From where, Boca Raton Salsipuedes University?
You are an ignorant moron. You have amply demonstrated it. You have
little or no knowledge of what you are trying to talk about.
You have no accomplishments of you own, so you have to claim those of
everyone else as your own; you are so insecure that you feel the need
to denigrate anybody who disagrees with you on anything, even if what
you have said is patently idiotic, as is most of what you have said.
><<What I ->did<- do was prove that you have no clue. Of all the things you
>tried to push, only two were "achievements of the US/Anglos">>
>
>OK, then you lkist the achievements/accomplishments of Mexicans Hispanicks..
There are no such thing as "hipanicks", even if you try to falsify
dictionary entries.
I never made stupid claims, so I have no need to try to back them
up. I replied to each and both of your accurate claims with accurate
claims of my own. I even gave you a technological improvement for
free. I would tell you to look them up in google, but you already
demonstrated your inablity to quote accurately, so I'll repeat them
for your benefit. A mexican (Gonzalez Camarena) invented color
television. It was the Spanish Armada who first introduced modern
three-mast sailing vessels. And the Spanish army was the first to use
ringed bayonets.
Now, go look up what "leading question", "ad hominem", "non causa pro
cause", "ad nauseam", "faulty generalization" and "non-sequitur" mean,
so you know the correct names of all the logical fallacies you have
been trying to peddle.
======================================================================
"Taum autem eras excors, ut tota in oratione tua tecum ipse pugnares,
non modo non cohaerentia inter se diceres, sed maxime disiuncta ataque
contraria, ut non tanta mecum quanta tivi trecum esset contentio."
-- Cicero, Philippicae II
======================================================================
Arturo Magidin
mag...@math.berkeley.edu
Arturo Magidin
Arturo Magidin <mag...@math.berkeley.edu> wrote:
>I've told you several times to look up "damascus steel", didn't I?
>
>Look at what you quote here:
>
>
>> The first alloy was developed by the ENGLISH physicist Michael Faraday in
>>the 1830's.
>
>
>Are you so ignorant that you did not know that swords and armor of
>steel existed in the middle ages? That japanese samurai swords were
>made of steel? That the crusades were fought with swords of steel
>vs. scimitars of steel?
Since you are too dumb to look it up on your own, let me direct your
attention, just for example, to
www.tms.org/pubs/journal/JOM/9809/Verhoeven-9809.html
where an article called "The Key Role of Impurities in Ancient
Damascus Steel Blades", by J.D. Verhoeven, A.H. Pendray, and
W.E. Dauksch is located. This paper appeared in JOM 50 (9) (1998),
pp. 58-64.
From the first paragraph of the introduction:
"The arms and armor section of most large museusm display examples of
Damascus steel weapons. These steels are of two different types,
pattern-welded Damasucs and wootz Damascus, both of which were
apparently first produced prior to around 500 [A.D]."
There's a reference there to M. Sache's _Damascus Steel, Myth, History,
Technological Applications_, Disseldor, Germany: Stahleisen, 1994; and
to B. Bronson's "The Making and Selling of Wootz", Archeomaterials, 1
(1986), pp. 13-51.
Now, given that we have here casually mentioned steel weapons made out
of steel and produced around 500 A.D., before the English language
even ->existed<-...
Do you still want to persevere in your claims that steel was invented
in the 19th century by an Englishman?
Arturo Magidin
> www.tms.org/pubs/journal/JOM/9809/Verhoeven-9809.html
There is a typo in this address. It should be "journals", not
"journal", so the correct address is
www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JOM/9809/Verhoeven-9809.html
Arturo Magidin
mag...@math.berkeley.edu
DISCLAIMER: Although I post from my UC Berkeley account, I work
at the National University in Mexico
Toniuolevaiavea Fonoimoana
<<There is no such word. Why don't you check in your on-line dictionary>>
would I find the word "canyon" there?
<<You have no accomplishments of you own, so you have to claim those of
everyone else as your own>>
sounds like Latin Americans who have no achievements so they latch on to the
fact that they are the descendants of the former great Spanish Empire. It gives
them a sense of importance.Like a kid whose father was a football star, but he
is nothing, so he takes refuge in the fact that his father played pro football.
<<you are so insecure that you feel the need
to denigrate anybody who disagrees with you on anything>>
what "achievements" of Latin America did I denigrate?
<<There are no such thing as "hipanicks">>
people descended from the peoples of Iberia.
<<demonstrated your inablity to quote accurately, so I'll repeat them
for your benefit. A mexican (Gonzalez Camarena) invented color television.>>
I can find no reference of that guy in any scientific encyclopedia.
<<It was the Spanish Armada who first introduced modern three-mast sailing
vessels. >>
is that the same armada the British destroyed?
<<And the Spanish army was the first to use
ringed bayonets.>>
you call that a technological improvement?
faitau Tusi Pa'ia
Toniuolevaiavea Fonoimoana
<<Are you so ignorant that you did not know that swords and armor of
steel existed in the middle ages? That japanese samurai swords were made of
steel? That the crusades were fought with swords of steel
vs. scimitars of steel?>>
were they alloys that showed some sort of technological prowess?
faitau Tusi Pa'ia
Toniuolevaiavea Fonoimoana
<<As for Spanish, "grand canyon" would be spelled "Gran Ca~on.">>
and in the USA, Señor is Senyór.
Just as the German name "Müller" is spelled "Mueller" by German-Americans.
faitau Tusi Pa'ia
Toniuolevaiavea Fonoimoana
<<You originally claimed you were proud of speaking English because the
"anglos" had
done more, altruistically, than any other single "race" in the planet, in the
form of inventions made for "the betterment of the entire human
race.">>
it's true, who has done more? Mexicans? Dominicans? Columbians? Porto Ricans?
faitau Tusi Pa'ia
Arturo Magidin
Toniuolevaiavea Fonoimoana <sam...@aol.com> wrote:
>Senyor madigan says:
^^^^^ ^^^^^^^
Still being correct-spell-proof, aren't you?
Still unable to ->copy<- a word correctly, aren't you?
Although I am in no way related to Ms. Elvira Madigan, I will reply
anyway.
><<There is no such word. Why don't you check in your on-line dictionary>>
>
>would I find the word "canyon" there?
Non sequitur (did you look that up?)
"Canyon" is an English word. "Senyor" is neither an English word, nor
a Spanish word.
If you meant the Spanish "Se~or", whose translation into English is
"Mister", then you misspelled it.
><<You have no accomplishments of you own, so you have to claim those of
>everyone else as your own>>
>
>sounds like Latin Americans who have no achievements so they latch on to the
>fact that they are the descendants of the former great Spanish
>Empire.
Non sequitur again.
I have plenty of achievements of my own. They are witnessed by
literally dozens of pages in articles, published in in peer-reviewed,
scientific journal publications which detail mathematical discoveries
and contributions ->I<- made.
You, on the other hand, claim to have a hand on ->everything<- anyone
who was not hispanic ever did. You speak of "we" when referring to
whether or not I was at Berkeley, as if you had personally any say in
the matter.
Nobody here is trying to claim as their own the achievements of
others, except you. Nobody here claims "everyone who is a member of
<group X>" has anything in particlar, except you.
You are an ignoramus, a racist, and a liar. You've given ample proof
of all three.
>It gives
>them a sense of importance.Like a kid whose father was a football star, but he
>is nothing, so he takes refuge in the fact that his father played pro football.
Or you, who take refuge on the fact that you happen to speak the same
language as others who made real contributions, and you often get that
wrong anyway, such as your stupid claim that "TV was americans all the
way!" followed by a quote you plagiarized from some on-line
encylopedia that clearly listed a german as the pioneer.
><<you are so insecure that you feel the need
>to denigrate anybody who disagrees with you on anything>>
>
>what "achievements" of Latin America did I denigrate?
Color television. Three-mast sailing vessels.
And you denigrate anybody who speaks Spanish, as if they were a
faceless mob.
Still a coward, I see. And still a liar.
><<There are no such thing as "hipanicks">>
>
>people descended from the peoples of Iberia.
No. That would be "hispanic", without the 'k'. I know you tried to lie
your way out of that by falsifying a dictionary entry, but
nonetheless, the word "hispanick", spelled with a k at the end, does
not exist in the English language. It is not a word in
Merriam-Webster. It is not a world in the OED.
><<demonstrated your inablity to quote accurately, so I'll repeat them
>for your benefit. A mexican (Gonzalez Camarena) invented color television.>>
>
>I can find no reference of that guy in any scientific encyclopedia.
That would be your problem, not mine. You might try the net, for example, and
get a dozen hits.
><<It was the Spanish Armada who first introduced modern three-mast sailing
>vessels. >>
>
>is that the same armada the British destroyed?
(1) Non-sequitur.
(2) The British navy copied the design.
(3) The destruction was accomplished with fire-ships, not with
superior sailing.
Still ignorant of history, I see.
><<And the Spanish army was the first to use
>ringed bayonets.>>
>
>you call that a technological improvement?
Yes. Do you even know what it means?
I do not claim it is a technological improvement that somehow improved
people's lives, but then again, that was the stupid claim ->YOU<-
made.
That's why I was so sure I could counter each thing you would produce
with one, off the top of my head. Because you phrased your claim so
ridiculously, and because you are so clearly an ignoramus who would be
unable to produce more than 2 or 3 items that fit the criteria you set
forth in your claim. Heck, I knew at least 3 inventions off the top of
my head to counter them, so it hardly seemed like any work.
Who knew that you would turn out to be a liar on top of an ignorant
fool?
Arturo Magidin
Non-sequitur.
They were ->steel<-. You claim steel was invented in the mid 19th
century. That shows an appalling amount of ignorance on your
part. That you would persist in such a folly after being pointed in
the wrong direction shows willfull ignorance, and there are few sins
graver than ->wanting<- to remain ignorant.
Don't blame others if you failed to express yourself properly.
Arturo Magidin
Toniuolevaiavea Fonoimoana <sam...@aol.com> wrote:
>Arturo magidin says:
><<As for Spanish, "grand canyon" would be spelled "Gran Ca~on.">>
>
>and in the USA, Señor is Senyór.
Incorrect, but thanks for lying.
In the US, "Se~or" is "Mister."
Look up "senyor" in a dictionary, you idiot. You will find no such
word.
Unless you again try to lie by modifying the dictionary entry.
======================================================================
"No, my arguments were based on no hypothesis at all."
--- Jill Deel <vale...@infinet.com> through e-mail
======================================================================
Arturo Magidin
mag...@math.berkeley.edu
Arturo Magidin
There is no such think as a "Porto Rican".
For starters, Germans. The printing press is the single most important
invention in history in terms of bettering the entire human race.
But you dismissed that.
And then you tried to claim that by "anglos" you meant "central
europeans."
You are a fool. And a liar. Every word digs you in deeper.
Toniuolevaiavea Fonoimoana
<<I have plenty of achievements of my own. They are witnessed by literally
dozens of pages in articles, published in in peer-reviewed,
scientific journal publications which detail mathematical discoveries
and contributions ->I<- made.>>
I just checked the back of every chapter in my Calculus book and I see no
credits given to any Hispanicks.
faitau Tusi Pa'ia
Toniuolevaiavea Fonoimoana
<<For starters, Germans. The printing press is the single most important
invention in history in terms of bettering the entire human race.>>
I disagree, the steam engine is widely regarded as the world's greatest
invention. Do you want me to tell you who invented the steam engine?
What do you feel are the most important inventions by Mexicans? By Latin
Americans?
faitau Tusi Pa'ia
Toniuolevaiavea Fonoimoana
<<Look up "senyor" in a dictionary, you idiot. You will find no such word.>>
I would find the word "canyon".
faitau Tusi Pa'ia
Arturo Magidin
Non sequitur.
Unless you are stupid enough to think that mathematics is the same
thing as "Calculus"?
I wouldn't put it past you. You have already shown idiocy far beyond
that level.
And it's not "Hispanicks"; the word is "Hispanic" and has no 'k' in
it.
Try looking in a ->journal<-, not the calculus textbook you used in
Salsipuedes University.
Or try looking in something ->advanced<-, not a calculus textbook. A
book on Knot Theory, for example, that would include the Torres
Polynomial, of Guillermo Torres. Or a book on representations of
algebras, that is sure to include numerous contributions made by Jose
Antonio de la Pe~a (my current boss). Or a book on directed graphs,
and find the pioneering work of my colleagues Victor Neumann-Lara and
Hortensia Galeana-Sanchez on kernels of digraphs. That's just four
people, one of whom is deceased, all of whom are mexicans who worked
at the UNAM.
(Or you might look up world-renowned Manuel Peimbert for astronomy;
or the late Carlos Graef for fundamental contributions to physics,
just to name two from a neighboring field).
Or, if you happen to be implying I was lying above, you might check
Journal of Algebra (assuming you know what a library is and aren't
scared of so many books in one place) Vol. 28, no. 3 (2000),
pp. 1231-1270 for just one of my own modest contributions to group
theory. Or Algebra Universalis, vol 42, no. 1-2 (1999) pp. 61-77 for
another.
Arturo Magidin
Toniuolevaiavea Fonoimoana <sam...@aol.com> wrote:
>Arturo Magidin says:
><<Look up "senyor" in a dictionary, you idiot. You will find no such word.>>
>
>I would find the word "canyon".
Non-sequitur.
The last refuge of the incompetent liar.
Arturo Magidin
Toniuolevaiavea Fonoimoana <sam...@aol.com> wrote:
>Arturo Magidin says:
><<For starters, Germans. The printing press is the single most important
>invention in history in terms of bettering the entire human race.>>
>
>I disagree, the steam engine is widely regarded as the world's greatest
>invention.
"Widely"? Bull.
Although the steam engine is certainly a major invention, and the
precursor of the modern technological era, the printing press was far
more important in the dissemination of knowledge and in allowing for
->other<- discoveries, inventions, and advancements than the steam
engine ever was. The printing press created a demand for literacy,
extended literacy to hundreds of millions of people, and allows for
the prompt dissemination of knowledge, instead of the careful hoarding
that was predominant in the middle ages.
> Do you want me to tell you who invented the steam engine?
No need. I am not even a quarter as ignorant as you are.
A scot. Whose native language was not English, by the way.
>What do you feel are the most important inventions by Mexicans? By Latin
>Americans?
Non-sequitur. It has no bearing on the fact that you are an ignoramus
and have proven to be one repeatedly.
Arturo Magidin
Non sequitur.
Unless you are stupid enough to think that mathematics is the same
thing as "Calculus"?
I wouldn't put it past you. You have already shown idiocy far beyond
that level.
And it's not "Hispanicks"; the word is "Hispanic" and has no 'k' in
it.
Try looking in a ->journal<-, not the calculus textbook you used in
Salsipuedes University.
Or try looking in something ->advanced<-, not a calculus textbook. A
book on Knot Theory, for example, that would include the Torres
Polynomial, of Guillermo Torres. Or a book on representations of
algebras, that is sure to include numerous contributions made by Jose
Antonio de la Pe~a (my current boss). Or a book on directed graphs,
and find the pioneering work of my colleagues Victor Neumann-Lara and
Hortensia Galeana-Sanchez on kernels of digraphs. That's just four
people, one of whom is deceased, all of whom are mexicans who worked
at the UNAM.
(Or you might look up world-renowned Manuel Peimbert for astronomy;
or the late Carlos Graef for fundamental contributions to physics,
just to name two from a neighboring field).
Or, if you happen to be implying I was lying above, you might check
Communications in Algebra (assuming you know what a library is and
aren't scared of so many books in one place) Vol. 28, no. 3 (2000),
pp. 1231-1270 for just one of my own modest contributions to group
theory. Or Algebra Universalis, vol 42, no. 1-2 (1999) pp. 61-77 for
another.
======================================================================
"Certo scio, occisam saepe sapere plus multo suem."
-- Plautus, Miles Gloriosus
======================================================================
Arturo Magidin
mag...@math.berkeley.edu
NOTE: Apologies for the cancel/repost; I misstated one of the references.