USA supports kidnapping
Ir. Hj. Othman bin Hj. Ahmad
call kidnapping. Any supporter of this organisation that kidnaps
people are also guilty of kidnapping.
And you know how to deal with kidnappers; you don't negotiate with
them. You don;'t negotiate with lawless people no matter how powerful
they may be, because you don't get anything at all. These lawless
people have no respect for the law.
Just because they have courts of law, does not mean that they have any
respect for the law, because only just laws are respected. Laws that
legalises and supports kidnapping, are not laws, but instruments of
persecution.
Any intelligent people should know this. No wonder Muslims all over
the world had attacked USA and the West. It is not just Palestinians,
but Muslims of all nationalities.
Citizens of these nations should not expect any mercy if they support
such lawless governments and their policies.
Non-Muslims in Malaysia who support Israel's policies should beware
that these lawless policies be applied to them, and these people don't
deserve any mercy at all. Let them taste their own medicine. I thought
Malaysian ISA and Saddam Hussin's regime are bad, but the US and
Israeli are even worse.
US and Israel deserve the same fate as Saddam's Iraq, i.e. complete
annihilation.
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2010-01/02/content_12745136.htm
PNA urges Israel to drop controversial prisoners law
www.chinaview.cn 2010-01-02 23:32:15 Print
RAMALLAH, Jan. 2 (Xinhua) -- The Palestinian National Authority
(PNA) on Saturday called on Israel to cancel a controversial law it
uses to hold prisoners without a trial or keep them jailed after their
terms were over.
The PNA "has raised this issue before international circles and
human rights groups and resorted to the Israeli courts to drop the law
but the results were fruitless," Eissa Qaraqe', Palestinian minister
of prisoners affairs, told Xinhua.
This law "violates the Palestinian prisoners' rights and the human
values," he added.
Israel has ratified the "illegal warrior law" in 2002 and applied
it to Palestinians arrested in the Gaza Strip during its three-week
military operation in the Hamas-controlled territory that ended on
January 18, 2009.
Israel also used the law to keep two Lebanese prisoners until it
gets information on the whereabouts of Ron Arad, a fighter pilot who
went missing since his jet crashed over Lebanon in 1986.Later, in
2008, Israel freed the two hostages in a prisoner exchange deal with
Hezbollah.
In 2007, Hamas seized control in Gaza after it routed security
forces loyal to President Mahmoud Abbas and a year after it had
captured an Israeli soldier in a cross-border raid near the Gaza
Strip. Since then, Israel deals with Gaza as a hostile entity.
According to Qaraqe', Israel still holds some Gazans without trial
and refused to release others whose imprisonment terms were over.
"Those prisoners are deprived of getting any aid from rights
organizations and their families are not allowed to visit them," he
said.
During last winter offensive in Gaza, Israel arrested about 1,000
Palestinians, said Abdul Nasser Ferwana, a prisoner rights activist.
He said Israel refuses to reveal too much information about those
prisoners "and most of them might have been held under the illegal
warrior law, or killed during the assault but Israel kept their
bodies."
Editor: yan
tompel@tmnet.net.my mat tompel
palaestians going about killing innocent jews. Ir Hj you are spouting
rubbish and ignoring other facts. Your intelligence is indeed wanting.
Surely Israel should have a right to take action to protect their citizenry.
Bodoh logic
"Ir. Hj. Othman bin Hj. Ahmad" <oth...@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:6d7e8d37-0b81-463c...@22g2000yqr.googlegroups.com...
tompel@tmnet.net.my mat tompel
"Ir. Hj. Othman bin Hj. Ahmad" <oth...@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:6d7e8d37-0b81-463c...@22g2000yqr.googlegroups.com...
Ir. Hj. Othman bin Hj. Ahmad
> On Sat, 2 Jan 2010 09:37:53 -0800 (PST), "Ir. Hj. Othman bin Hj.
>
> Ahmad" <othm...@lycos.com> wrote:
> >If you don't call Israeli's warrior law kidnapping, what is there to
> >call kidnapping. Any supporter of this organisation that kidnaps
> >people are also guilty of kidnapping.
>
> don't you?
You mean, Hamas kidnap Israeli soldiers?
Of course I support Hamas in this particular case. What else is there
to do to enemy soldiers apart from Killing them?
And you compare that with Israeli kidnapping of thousands of innocent
Palestinians who are not even soldiers? Whereas you cried a lot like
children when one Jewish soldier is KIDNAPPED?
>
> >And you know how to deal with kidnappers; you don't negotiate with
> >them. You don;'t negotiate with lawless people no matter how powerful
> >they may be, because you don't get anything at all. These lawless
> >people have no respect for the law.
>
> Talking about Hamas again?
Because Hamas is supposed to have kidnapped ONE soldier, USA has the
right to allow the kidnapping of thousands of innocent non-combatants?
Because the law says so?
So you don't mind Hitler then. In reply to a murder of one German, he
killed more than 6 million Jews. But Germany laws allow this killing
just as Israel laws allow the killing and kidnapping of innocent
Palestinians.
Now every nation on earth will allow the kidnapping and killing of
their enemies and USA and the West should not complain. So why should
USA and the West complained when their SOLDIERS were kidnapped and
killed? According to the Taliban law, the only legitimate government
ever in Afghanistan, killing and kidnapping of Western alliance
soldiers is according to their law. And you want to call this Hamid
Karzai's government more legitimate than Taliban just because he
adores the West.
>
> >Just because they have courts of law, does not mean that they have any
> >respect for the law, because only just laws are respected. Laws that
> >legalises and supports kidnapping, are not laws, but instruments of
> >persecution.
>
> Talking about Hamas again?
You mean Israel never did it? When in fact, Israel and USA is
thousands of times worse???
They even legitimise openly these kidnappings. They have no shame at
all.
>
> >Any intelligent people should know this. No wonder Muslims all over
> >the world had attacked USA and the West. It is not just Palestinians,
> >but Muslims of all nationalities.
>
> Might have something to do with not reading the Koran?
You don't need to read the Quran to demand justice. Quran cannot stop
the execution of justice.
>
> [5:21] "O my people, enter the holy land that GOD has decreed for you,
> and do not rebel, lest you become losers."
> [5:22] They said, "O Moses, there are powerful people in it, and we
> will not enter it, unless they get out of it. If they get out, we are
> entering."
> [5:23] Two men who were reverent and blessed by GOD said, "Just enter
> the gate. If you just enter it, you will surely prevail. You must
> trust in GOD, if you are believers."
>
> English version of the Koran by Dr. Rashad Khalifa
>
> So, recapping, the Koran decrees Israel for the Jews....
You mean just because Israel is decreed for the Jews they have the
right to steal, kidnap and kill the original inhabitants?
The entering of land was only valid for one occasion. There is no
mention at all of decreeing that Israel belongs to the Jews alone.
Never mention at all of driving out the original inhabitants.
And never any verse in the quran allowing any ethnic cleansing,such as
what the Jews practises in Israel.
You don't need to read the Quran to have any sense of compassion and
justice.
Arrogant racist bastards such as you have no sense of justice at all,
even when reading the quran.
You reinterpret the quran according to your racist and arrogant sense
of injustice.
>
> >Citizens of these nations should not expect any mercy if they support
> >such lawless governments and their policies.
>
> And here we go - more of your terrorist meanderings. Lucky that you
I thought you want to apply these callings on the Hamas that you keep
on calling as terrorists?
I have no such inclination at all. Both guilty parties should be
punished, it does not matter how powerful they are.
The only criteria is how bad they are. In this case, Israel and USA is
thousands of times worse, if not millions.
There is no record of Hamas kidnapping innocent civilians. Only fully
armed Israeli soldiers. By all accounts, this is not kidnapping.
Only arrogant racist bastards call the capturing of soldiers as
kidnapping, while the indefinite detention of unarmed civilians
without any trial as justified.
> have a red card at the hospital, otherwise you might find it hard to
> avoid the ISA.
>
> >Non-Muslims in Malaysia who support Israel's policies should beware
> >that these lawless policies be applied to them, and these people don't
> >deserve any mercy at all. Let them taste their own medicine. I thought
> >Malaysian ISA and Saddam Hussin's regime are bad, but the US and
> >Israeli are even worse.
>
> Squarely showing exactly who doesn't have respect for law - that is,
> YOU. As usual.
>
> >US and Israel deserve the same fate as Saddam's Iraq, i.e. complete
> >annihilation.
>
> Iraq wasn't annihilated....
> --
> Cheers
> Paul Saccani
> Perth, Western Australia.
tompel@tmnet.net.my mat tompel
The glories of this life and state are shadows not substantial things.
Death lays its hands on kings
Septre and crown must tumble down and in the dust be equal made
ONLY THE ACTIONS OF THE JUST SMELL SWEET AND BLOSSOM IN THE DUST
LET ALL THESE DEMENTED, CORRUPTED BEGOTTED LEADERS REMEMBER THAT
"Paul Saccani" <sac...@omen.net.au> wrote in message
news:b5d1k5p545k1onobq...@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 2 Jan 2010 09:37:53 -0800 (PST), "Ir. Hj. Othman bin Hj.
> Ahmad" <oth...@lycos.com> wrote:
>
>>If you don't call Israeli's warrior law kidnapping, what is there to
>>call kidnapping. Any supporter of this organisation that kidnaps
>>people are also guilty of kidnapping.
>
> So, by your logic, you are a kidnapper.... You do support Hamas,
> don't you?
>
>>And you know how to deal with kidnappers; you don't negotiate with
>>them. You don;'t negotiate with lawless people no matter how powerful
>>they may be, because you don't get anything at all. These lawless
>>people have no respect for the law.
>
> Talking about Hamas again?
>
>>Just because they have courts of law, does not mean that they have any
>>respect for the law, because only just laws are respected. Laws that
>>legalises and supports kidnapping, are not laws, but instruments of
>>persecution.
>
> Talking about Hamas again?
>
>>Any intelligent people should know this. No wonder Muslims all over
>>the world had attacked USA and the West. It is not just Palestinians,
>>but Muslims of all nationalities.
>
> Might have something to do with not reading the Koran?
>
> [5:21] "O my people, enter the holy land that GOD has decreed for you,
> and do not rebel, lest you become losers."
> [5:22] They said, "O Moses, there are powerful people in it, and we
> will not enter it, unless they get out of it. If they get out, we are
> entering."
> [5:23] Two men who were reverent and blessed by GOD said, "Just enter
> the gate. If you just enter it, you will surely prevail. You must
> trust in GOD, if you are believers."
>
> English version of the Koran by Dr. Rashad Khalifa
>
> So, recapping, the Koran decrees Israel for the Jews....
>
>>Citizens of these nations should not expect any mercy if they support
>>such lawless governments and their policies.
>
> And here we go - more of your terrorist meanderings. Lucky that you
> have a red card at the hospital, otherwise you might find it hard to
> avoid the ISA.
>
>>Non-Muslims in Malaysia who support Israel's policies should beware
>>that these lawless policies be applied to them, and these people don't
>>deserve any mercy at all. Let them taste their own medicine. I thought
>>Malaysian ISA and Saddam Hussin's regime are bad, but the US and
>>Israeli are even worse.
>
> Squarely showing exactly who doesn't have respect for law - that is,
> YOU. As usual.
>
>>US and Israel deserve the same fate as Saddam's Iraq, i.e. complete
>>annihilation.
>
Ir. Hj. Othman bin Hj. Ahmad
> On Sun, 3 Jan 2010 14:27:28 -0800 (PST), "Ir. Hj. Othman bin Hj.
>
> Ahmad" <othm...@lycos.com> wrote:
> >On Jan 3, 11:26 pm, Paul Saccani <sacc...@omen.net.au> wrote:
> >> On Sat, 2 Jan 2010 09:37:53 -0800 (PST), "Ir. Hj. Othman bin Hj.
>
> >> Ahmad" <othm...@lycos.com> wrote:
> >> >If you don't call Israeli's warrior law kidnapping, what is there to
> >> >call kidnapping. Any supporter of this organisation that kidnaps
> >> >people are also guilty of kidnapping.
>
> >> So, by your logic, you are a kidnapper.... You do support Hamas,
> >> don't you?
>
> >You mean, Hamas kidnap Israeli soldiers?
>
> by "your logic"?
Based on the sentences below, you don't even seem to understand your
own logic.
...
>
> He hasn't been kidnapped - he has been captured and treated in
> violation of the law of war.
Now it is violation of war, as you claim. So Israeli illegal
kidnapping is not a violation of the war, the least of the war crimes
committed by Israel in daylight.
Capturing an enemy's soldier indefinitely is not a war crime, as long
as the war is on-going or soldiers/citizens are still detained by
opposing parties.
>
> Perhaps you should find out what you are talking about, before trying
> to imagine what others might be talking about?
Why don't you apply that to yourself first?
...
> Perhaps in your deluded mind. One wonders where these fantasies of
> yours come from.
Watch documentaries if you care.
>
> > But Germany laws allow this killing
>
> Not according to the German courts. Perhaps you should find out what
> you are talking about. And not imagine that Hitler had any more
Find out if Israeli courts allow indefinite detention of non-
combatants.
These Palestinians are detained WITHOUT ANY TRIAL!!!
UNDERSTOOD. Idiot.
There is no court involved.
> justification than you do in being a sewer for the dispersal of hate.
Ethnic discrimination is the law in Germany and Hitler has absolute
power to do what he wants including killing traitors without any
trial.
Hitler can just declare 6 million Jews as traitors.
No court is necessary just as no court is necessary in Israeli and US
illegal detention of non-combatants.
>
> >just as Israel laws allow the killing and kidnapping of innocent
> >Palestinians.
>
> You mean just as Hamas "laws" allows the killing and kidnapping of
> innocent Palestinians? They've done an awful lot of it. And of those
> Palestinians who really were innocent.
Even if it were true, do US and Israel have the right to emulate Hamas
or Hitler?
I doubt it were true because Hamas will not be so blatant as to put it
into laws because these are against Islamic laws.
Hamas follows Islamic jurisprudence. Whatever unjust laws will be
automatically made illegal.
...
> Kindly list the posts that you have made demanding that Hamas be
> punished for their crimes.
Even this current post but it does not mean that Hamas is surely
guilty of their so called crimes.
They have to be investigated thoroughly in order to find out if it
were really Hamas or the work of individuals.
How many times have you told you so and yet you are such an arrogant
bastard that you are so sure that Hamas is already guilty as charged,
without
any trial whatsoever, justifying the illegal imprisonment of all
Palestinians, not necessarily Hamas followers.
If Hamas were guilty, arrest Hamas. Why ALL PALESTINIANS are
arrested?? Idiotic racist bastard.
>
> The words "deceitful hypocrite" come to mind.
Who is the hypocrite. Condemning Hamas without any trial, and yet
punished ALL PALESTINIANS.
Worst hypocrite is that you seem to think that Israel is Jewish, when
there are many Arabs in Israel.
>
> >The only criteria is how bad they are. In this case, Israel and USA is
> >thousands of times worse, if not millions.
>
> With the caveat that this is the opinion of one who is severally
> mentally afflicted, I take it?
You mean Hamas is surely guilty without any proof, and yet Isreal and
USA with guatanamo and published policies of detention without any
trial, are innocent?
Who is the mentally afflicted person here?
>
> >There is no record of Hamas kidnapping innocent civilians.
>
> "Hamas this week admitted to kidnapping and killing Jerusalem resident
> Sasson Nuriel, releasing a video of Hamas members interrogating the
> Jewish merchant with a blindfold strapped around his head.
Is this merchant really that innocent???
>
> Zuhri [Hamas senior spokesman Sami Abu Zahri ] warned Hamas will
> kidnap more Israelis unless Palestinian prisoners are freed and the
> Jewish state ceases to arrest wanted Hamas militants.
>
> "This kidnapping is part of the resistance to the occupation and is
> part of our struggle to free the Palestinian prisoners," he said. "We
> gave Israel many opportunities to free our prisoners, which was
An eye for an eye, but still Islam forbid the kidnapping of any
innocent people.
Any merchant that will contribute to Jewish Israeli war effort is a
valid target.
Also they can get more money out of it. It is one of the oldest war
tactics.
> supposed to be part of the [February] cease fire agreement [between PA
> President Mahmoud Abbas and Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon] ...
> but the occupier did not respect this and continues to carry our
> prisoners to their jails. " [The Israelis released only prisoners who
> weren't Hamas (Hamas had recently started killing members of Abbas'
> party)]http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=46594
>
> Gee, that didn't take long to find. Fool.
Oh, the kidnappers now claim innocent just because they release some
Palestinians,
but it proved clearly that Jewish Israel did kidnap non-Hamas
members.
>
> I did publish a list last year detailing by name Israeli civilians
> kidnapped and/or murdered by Hamas - the list ran to hundreds of
> names. It does seem that you have forgotten it. In reality, I expect
> that your addled mind can't acknowledge anything outside of your
> delusion frame of reference.
Hundreds kidnaped and murdered by Hamas versus the number of kidnapped
by Israel?
And you consider yourself fair in making comparison?
You never mention the thousands of innocent women and children killed
by Israel in addition to those kidnapped.
By the rule of justice, Hamas MUST KIDNAP AND KILL similar numbers of
Palestinians that were kidnapped and killed by Israel.
But Hamas does not institutionalize this illegal behaviour, only as a
retaliatory action unlike Israel and USA,
which means that these institutions, i.e. Israel and USA that legalise
illegal kidnapping and murder, deserve to be destroyed completely.
Not Hamas that does not legalise any illegal killing and kidnapping.
You see a clear difference?
Hamas still has a long way to go and will be a long way to go if they
don't improve themselves in the art of killing and kidnapping.
...
>
> Recapping, you define all Israelis as soldiers, and all Palestinians
No. You are lying.
> as civilians.
It is newspapers who call these Palestinians as unarmed so non-
combatants.
Even those that are armed are not paid or organised as soldiers so are
not really soldiers.
Because of that these newspapers call them terrorists. Unfortunately,
arms are limited in Palestine,
and security very tight, so very few Palestinians have weapons.
That is why you see many Palestinians throw rocks at Israeli Tanks.
Many Palestinians died because Israeli soldiers reply with bullets.
>
> You reek of hypocrisy.
Stop lying and maybe you can understand people better instead of
blaming them of hypocricy
which you alone commits.
>
> I'm not sure that the stench of stupidity counteracts that odour.
How can you declare people as stupid when you lie?
Ir. Hj. Othman bin Hj. Ahmad
> On Thu, 7 Jan 2010 01:57:30 -0800 (PST), "Ir. Hj. Othman bin Hj.
>
...
> >> "Hamas this week admitted to kidnapping and killing Jerusalem resident
> >> Sasson Nuriel, releasing a video of Hamas members interrogating the
> >> Jewish merchant with a blindfold strapped around his head.
>
> >Is this merchant really that innocent???
>
> Are *any* of the "illegal warriors" innocent in the smallest measure?
Of course many are. They are not even Hamas members which you proudly
condemn for fighting for Palestine.
Many are not even armed when they were caught. Many do not have money
so as to offer compensations if captured.
>
> >> Zuhri [Hamas senior spokesman Sami Abu Zahri ] warned Hamas will
> >> kidnap more Israelis unless Palestinian prisoners are freed and the
> >> Jewish state ceases to arrest wanted Hamas militants.
>
> >> "This kidnapping is part of the resistance to the occupation and is
> >> part of our struggle to free the Palestinian prisoners," he said. "We
> >> gave Israel many opportunities to free our prisoners, which was
>
> >An eye for an eye, but still Islam forbid the kidnapping of any
> >innocent people.
>
> Your head is really, really, full of excrement.
>
> >Any merchant that will contribute to Jewish Israeli war effort is a
> >valid target.
>
> Here we go again - even a 6 year old girl is a "valid target" to you.
Similarly for the Israeli except that there are thousands of 6 year
old girl Palestinian Arabs versus just one for Israel citizens, some
of whom could be Arabs as well.
This is called collateral damage except that Israel deliberately use
heavy bombs in populated areas intent on killing everyone. Even some
Israeli pilots refuse to obey orders to bomb buildings full of
innocent women and children.
>
> But you know nothing of the crimes of those detained by the Israelis,
> but are quite happy to declare them innocent.
I am sure many of them have no crime whatsoever apart from just being
an Arab, either Muslim or Christian.
>
> >Also they can get more money out of it. It is one of the oldest war
> >tactics.
>
> You mean criminal tactics.
And yet the Israeli muderous tactics are certainly not criminal
tactics deserving to be investigated, despite all the video evidences?
>
> >> supposed to be part of the [February] cease fire agreement [between PA
> >> President Mahmoud Abbas and Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon] ...
> >> but the occupier did not respect this and continues to carry our
> >> prisoners to their jails. " [The Israelis released only prisoners who
> >> weren't Hamas (Hamas had recently started killing members of Abbas'
> >> party)]http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=46594
>
> >> Gee, that didn't take long to find. Fool.
>
> >Oh, the kidnappers now claim innocent just because they release some
> >Palestinians,
> > but it proved clearly that Jewish Israel did kidnap non-Hamas
> >members.
>
> It proves nothing of the sort. You head case. Capturing people on
> the battlefield, or for criminal matters is not kidnapping.
In your case, the whole of Palestine is declared a Battle field, but
when Hamas declare the whole of Israel as a Battlefiled you call it
criminal.
Hypocritical liar.
...