IGP - end police torrent/tyranny of saman ekor in Lawan Kuda
khl...@pc.jaring.my
Timor Lim Kit Siang in Ipoh on Thursday, 19th May 2005:
Call on IGP Bakri Musa to pay a personal visit to Lawan Kuda new
village which was issued 600 motor-cyclist summons in two years -
living proof of Royal Police Commission finding that public confidence
in police "very low" and example how the police "Mesra Rakyat"
slogan has turned sour
==============================================
Inspector-General of Police Tan Sri Mohd Bakri Omar should pay a
personal visit to Lawan Kuda new village in Gopeng, Perak, as
motorcyclists of the village with 8,000 people have been issued 600
notices for traffic offences (saman ekor) over the past two years.
The majority of the saman ekor were for failure to wear crash helmets
and for having faded number plates, with speeding making up 10% of the
offences.
Human Rights of Malaysia (Suhakam) commissioner Datuk N. Siva
Subramaniam had expressed shock at the police torrent and
"tyranny" of saman ekor when he visited Lawan Kuda New Village
with DAP MP for Batu Gajah, Fong Po Kuan and three DAP Perak
Assemblymen, i.e. Thomas Su Keong Siong (Pasir Pinji), Keong Meng Sing
(Menglembu) and Chen Fook Chye (Keranji) on Tuesday and received an
official complaint to Suhakam from the villagers.
Siva Subramaniam told reporters that he found it "a bit weird" for
the police to issue 600 summonses in one village alone, which "has
never happened in any one place in Malaysia before".
The Lawan Kuda New Village saman ekor scandal is highly unfair and
oppressive for the low-income group who could only afford motor-cycles
as their means of transport, as on an average of RM50 fine per saman
ekor, the police are squeezing the Lawan Kuda new villagers to pay out
some RM30,000 for the past two years!
The Lawan Kuda saman ekor scandal is in fact a living proof of the
failure of the police "Mesra Rakyat" (People Friendly) slogan,
which has turned completely sour for the people of Lawan Kuda, and the
reason for the Royal Police Commission finding that public confidence
in police "very low".
The Royal Police Commission Report, in p.179, states:
"As noted in earlier chapters, public confidence in PDRM is very low.
The qualities many in the public and business see in PDRM are the
antithesis of all that PDRM aspires to be. PDRM is generally viewed as
inefficient, uncaring, unable to prevent or check crime and corruption
to a significant degree. Concerns regarding infringements and abuse of
human rights are extensive, and PDRM is not seen as being transparent
and accountable to the public."
The Inspector-General of Police should visit Lawan Kuda new village to
end the police torrent and "tyranny" of saman ekor and to bring to
a close a living proof of the Royal Police Commission finding that
public confidence in police is "very low" and to reinvent the
police service to give real meaning to the police "Mesra Rakyat"
(People-Friendly) slogan - where the police are regarded as friends
and not bullies or oppressors by the people.
-
Lim Kit Siang
- http://dapmalaysia.org
- http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/3939/
- Mailing List: Send request to
<bungaray...@listserv.net-gw.com>
Mr Magoo
khl...@pc.jaring.my wrote:
----snip----
> Inspector-General of Police Tan Sri Mohd Bakri Omar should pay a
> personal visit to Lawan Kuda new village in Gopeng, Perak, as
> motorcyclists of the village with 8,000 people have been issued 600
> notices for traffic offences (saman ekor) over the past two years.
>
> The majority of the saman ekor were for failure to wear crash helmets
> and for having faded number plates, with speeding making up 10% of
the
> offences.
----snip----
Not sure what saudara LKS is trying to achieve here. Is he trying to
signal to the police to allow those motoryclist to continue ignoring
traffic rule?
I have seen a motorcyclist been killed in a road accident before while
driving on a costal road. Where it is in my opinion, the motorcyclist
should have escape with some injuries if only he had wear a crash
helmet. That is something worth for us all to ponder.
Rgds,
Mr Magoo
Dave Baker
>Media Statement by Parliamentary Opposition Leader and MP for Ipoh
>Timor Lim Kit Siang in Ipoh on Thursday, 19th May 2005:
>Inspector-General of Police Tan Sri Mohd Bakri Omar should pay a
>personal visit to Lawan Kuda new village in Gopeng, Perak, as
>motorcyclists of the village with 8,000 people have been issued 600
>notices for traffic offences (saman ekor) over the past two years.
>The majority of the saman ekor were for failure to wear crash helmets
>The Lawan Kuda New Village saman ekor scandal is highly unfair and
>oppressive for the low-income group who could only afford motor-cycles
>as their means of transport
I'm sorry Mr Lim, but I don't agree here - if these people can afford
motorbikes then they can afford helmets as well. The question is - can
Malaysia afford 3,000 dead motorcyclists per year!
>as on an average of RM50 fine per saman ekor, the police are squeezing the Lawan Kuda new villagers to pay out
>some RM30,000 for the past two years!
Sounds to me like they are getting a discount - shouldn't the fine be RM100
minimum? I've always taken umbrage with this "discount ticket" system that
runs in Malaysia. Offence fines should be CLEARLY be marked as part of the
pre-printed ticket, and there should be NO discounts. Discounting can only
lead to corruption, and there is no reason for it.
Dave
The email address used for sending these postings is not valid.
All replies to the group please.
Uncle Yap
>> The majority of the saman ekor were for failure to wear crash helmets
>> and for having faded number plates, with speeding making up 10% of
>> the offences.
>Not sure what saudara LKS is trying to achieve here. Is he trying to
>signal to the police to allow those motoryclist to continue ignoring
>traffic rule?
Victimisation and petty harassment (and selective racist persecution).
Some simple and everyday examples
In real life, you and I commit an offence almost every time we get
into a car. Most people will switch on the ignition and then put on
the seat belt (that is an offence) so if the police is bloody-minded
enough, it can station a man at the gate of your house and book you
every time, you start your engine before putting on your seat belt.
Drive into any Felda scheme village and you will see that nobody
(except those coming back from town) wears a helmet on a motorbike.
Station a cop in each Felda village and I guarantee you at least 50
tickets a day. Add in the offence of not having the headlights on, and
you can easily issue 100 tickets a day. Wait for night and catch all
the villagers riding bicycles without light and/or carrying passengers
and/or unweildy loads.
So if the Police were really serious about upholding every letter of
the law, then they should enforce it not just at predominantly-Chinese
Lawan Kuda new village in Gopeng but every rural village, kampong and
Felda scheme
Pan
wrote:
[snip]
>Drive into any Felda scheme village and you will see that nobody
>(except those coming back from town) wears a helmet on a motorbike.
>Station a cop in each Felda village and I guarantee you at least 50
>tickets a day. Add in the offence of not having the headlights on, and
>you can easily issue 100 tickets a day. Wait for night and catch all
>the villagers riding bicycles without light and/or carrying passengers
>and/or unweildy loads.
>
>So if the Police were really serious about upholding every letter of
>the law, then they should enforce it not just at predominantly-Chinese
>Lawan Kuda new village in Gopeng but every rural village, kampong and
>Felda scheme
That sounds like a really good idea. Laws and regulations that aren't
enforced are a joke.
Michael
If you would like to send a private email to me, please take out the TRASH, so to speak. Please do not email me something which you also posted.
pluto
wrote/and/or quoted:
k pan,
i would put it this way.
the surmons were served on the "predominantly-Chinese Lawan Kuda new
village in Gopeng" because the convenience money can be collected from the
"voluntary" givers.
police at the kampong and Felda scheme which are mainly bumis would tell
them "abang, adik, jage tubit gini" will do
fahe tak?
ignorance of the law is no defence, ignorance of the fact is.
-- lord acton(?)
cheers
pluto
Dave Baker
>the surmons were served on the "predominantly-Chinese Lawan Kuda new
>village in Gopeng" because the convenience money can be collected from the
>"voluntary" givers.
It seems to me that convenience money ISN'T being given - aren't they
complaining about the number of summonses issued? Or are you saying the high
number of summonses is only the tip of the iceberg?
>police at the kampong and Felda scheme which are mainly bumis would tell
>them "abang, adik, jage tubit gini" will do
Sounds like the problem is at the kampong and Felda areas to me then. The
police shouldn't be turning a blind eye to crime, especially in cases where
it's going to cost the State money - head injuries cost big money to fix,
even in public hospitals. And dead youths don't get old enough to become
tax-payers.
Pan
>k pan,
>i would put it this way.
>
>the surmons were served on the "predominantly-Chinese Lawan Kuda new
>village in Gopeng" because the convenience money can be collected from the
>"voluntary" givers.
>
>police at the kampong and Felda scheme which are mainly bumis would tell
>them "abang, adik, jage tubit gini" will do
>
>fahe tak?
[snip]
Faham doh.
Nevertheless, the good solution is to enforce the regulations on all,
not to exempt villagers.
pluto
<newsgrou...@jodael.com> wrote/and/or quoted:
"
>On Thu, 19 May 2005 17:10:33 +0800, pluto <pl...@yahoo.com.sg> wrote:
>
>>the surmons were served on the "predominantly-Chinese Lawan Kuda new
>>village in Gopeng" because the convenience money can be collected from the
>>"voluntary" givers.
>
>It seems to me that convenience money ISN'T being given - aren't they
>complaining about the number of summonses issued? Or are you saying the high
>number of summonses is only the tip of the iceberg?
hmm k dave,
your dexterity at flying upside down at 3G enables you to detect the
phenomenom peculiar to the chinaman ;-)
yup, they go along with the daily subscriptions, then come the big man who
says he is cleaning up the shit. suddenly shits hit the wall everybody is
talking, complaining, shouting,cursing. so the big man sits down to write a
report begining by asking the loudest complainant for his IC. He goes
speechless, dissolves into the iceberg ;-)
>
>>police at the kampong and Felda scheme which are mainly bumis would tell
>>them "abang, adik, jage tubit gini" will do
>
>Sounds like the problem is at the kampong and Felda areas to me then. The
>police shouldn't be turning a blind eye to crime,
hmm huh?
you reach 10G!
of course the matamata is talking with his eyes wide open.
here the matamata is giving brotherly advice to the "igorant" to wear his
helmet.
>......................................especially in cases where
>it's going to cost the State money - head injuries cost big money to fix,
>even in public hospitals.
this is not the matamata's imediate problem.
he is giving brotherly advice that the rider is ignorant of the fact that
he is not wearing a helmet.
> And dead youths don't get old enough to become
>tax-payers.
they may not pay tax anyway but collect taxes.
>
>Dave
>
>The email address used for sending these postings is not valid.
>All replies to the group please.
cheers
pluto
Mr Magoo
Uncle Yap wrote:
> On 18 May 2005 20:23:28 -0700, "Mr Magoo" <sh...@usa.com> wrote:
> >> The majority of the saman ekor were for failure to wear crash
helmets
> >> and for having faded number plates, with speeding making up 10% of
> >> the offences.
>
> >Not sure what saudara LKS is trying to achieve here. Is he trying to
> >signal to the police to allow those motoryclist to continue ignoring
> >traffic rule?
>
> Victimisation and petty harassment (and selective racist
persecution).
If they follow the traffic rule, then there is no reason for them to be
harassed right? Saudara LKS should have hammered this message.
> Some simple and everyday examples
>
> In real life, you and I commit an offence almost every time we get
> into a car. Most people will switch on the ignition and then put on
> the seat belt (that is an offence) so if the police is bloody-minded
> enough, it can station a man at the gate of your house and book you
> every time, you start your engine before putting on your seat belt.
I really don't mind to have police been stationed in front of my house.
I really, meant it. That way I don't have to pay extra 50 buck every
month for private security. :)
> Drive into any Felda scheme village and you will see that nobody
> (except those coming back from town) wears a helmet on a motorbike.
> Station a cop in each Felda village and I guarantee you at least 50
> tickets a day. Add in the offence of not having the headlights on,
and
> you can easily issue 100 tickets a day. Wait for night and catch all
> the villagers riding bicycles without light and/or carrying
passengers
> and/or unweildy loads.
I will support that action. It is about time we are serious about all
these traffic offences. It looks petty to some people but what ther are
doing is not just endangering their life but also other road users.
> So if the Police were really serious about upholding every letter of
> the law, then they should enforce it not just at
predominantly-Chinese
> Lawan Kuda new village in Gopeng but every rural village, kampong and
> Felda scheme
Seriously Uncle. In a population of 8000, let say 1 motorcycle for
every 8 (Which I believed a very low estimation here 1:5 will be more
realistic). So it comes down to a total of 1000 motorcycle for that
area. so 600 summons per 1000 motorcycle in 2 years. That comes down to
0.3 summons per motorcyclist per year. I believed that is much less
than the average number of summon each of us get per year, Uncle.
Rgds,
Mr Magoo
Uncle Yap
>0.3 summons per motorcyclist per year. I believed that is much less
>than the average number of summon each of us get per year, Uncle.
Some years ago, after a trip to the north when I got three speeding
tickets, I vowed never ever to get another traffic ticket of any kind.
7-8 years later, my record is still intact, even though sometimes
I have to walk a fair distance to park the car legally.
Mr Magoo
My last summon was 3 years ago. :)
I am also the type who don't mind parking a little bit further just to
get a legal parking space. In fact, I am quite buffle with the attitude
of many Malaysians who rather prefer to double park or sometimes triple
park just to make sure they don't have to walk any further then
necessary. I guess many of them can get away most of the time. That is
why we can see this kind of attitude among people over here.
Rgds,
Mr Magoo
pluto
quoted:
"
>I am also the type who don't mind parking a little bit further just to
>get a legal parking space. In fact, I am quite buffle with the attitude
>of many Malaysians who rather prefer to double park or sometimes triple
>park just to make sure they don't have to walk any further then
>necessary. I guess many of them can get away most of the time. That is
>why we can see this kind of attitude among people over here.
you are in my, k magoo and you are a muslim?
today is friday
look around the mosque at 1pm on wards till 3.30pm
> many Malaysians [muslims praying there] who rather prefer to double park or sometimes triple
>park just to make sure they don't have to walk any further then
>necessary. I guess many of them can get away most of the time
EVERY TIME
NOT MOST OF THE TIME
with the matama in tow
no summons are ever issued.
but look at this:
every sunday, ALL cars parked outside the church in kl , pj anywhere are
slapped with summons
in my last post before i retired in seremban, there was the usual yearly
(ONCE A YEAR ONLY) chinese going up the bukit china hill graveyard behind
jalan lee san. police and mbsn kept on slapping summons on cars parked
there for the 1 hour or so. as more cars come in, more summons are slapped.
WTF is going on?
do you call this racisism?
do you call this corruption?
>
>Rgds,
>
>Mr Magoo
cheers
pluto
Uncle Yap
>you are in my, k magoo and you are a muslim?
>today is friday
>look around the mosque at 1pm on wards till 3.30pm
To be fair, the Police in Malaysia are quite understanding about
religious gatherings. Come along this Sunday to Jalan Klang Lama and
see how liberal the police are to allow the Buddhist crowd to park
their cars and celebrate Vesak Day in peace. Go to Assunta Hospital
and see how the Police allow double parking for people attending the
Church services.
What I sometimes see as erratic enforcement are at pasar malams.
One Saturday night, I was not allowed to park on a pavement because
the Police was having an exercise where they issued more than 100
illegal parking tickets. The following week, there was no exercise and
people were "not disallowed" to park on the pavements.
Maybe Malaysia should introduce a special kind of lines where parking
is permitted after say 7pm until 7 am the next morning. Places such as
Jalan Imbi simply cannot handle the car-park requirement of dinners of
the many restaurants there. So every night, people will park illegally
and whether they are booked depends on whether there is a hard-working
police officer who wanted to have an exercise that night and/or meet
his quota. It's all luck and has nothing to do with law and order as I
personally feel there is absolutely no reason to prohibit parking
along the road at night.
>every sunday, ALL cars parked outside the church in kl , pj anywhere are
>slapped with summons
I don't think that is true. This Sunday, why don't you go to Assunta
Hospital and see whether what you alleged is true. They are subject to
the same luck of timing of "exercises" as described above whereas
places around the mosque are NEVER ever subject to such exercises.
(maybe because all the policemen are in the mosques praying and nobody
is on duty)
>in my last post before i retired in seremban, there was the usual yearly
>(ONCE A YEAR ONLY) chinese going up the bukit china hill graveyard behind
>jalan lee san. police and mbsn kept on slapping summons on cars parked
>there for the 1 hour or so. as more cars come in, more summons are slapped.
Yes, this is extremely regrettable around many Chinese graveyards.
Here I think the Police should be educated about the filial
requirement to visit and clean the graveyards of ancestors once a year
and why the Police should "not disallow" parking.
>WTF is going on?
>do you call this racisism?
>do you call this corruption?
This is yet another way of saying that not every facet of our society
is multi-racial. The composition of the civil service and the military
and the police is so Malay-dominated that among the many implications
is that the Police is perceived by some as anti-Chinese and
anti-Indian. They may well be doing their duty but everytime, a
Chinese or an Indian is booked, someone will automatically shout
"Racial discrimination"
pluto
wrote/and/or quoted:
"
>On Fri, 20 May 2005 14:22:08 +0800, pluto <pl...@yahoo.com.sg> wrote:
>>you are in my, k magoo and you are a muslim?
>>today is friday
>>look around the mosque at 1pm on wards till 3.30pm
>
>To be fair, the Police in Malaysia are quite understanding about
>religious gatherings. Come along this Sunday to Jalan Klang Lama and
>see how liberal the police are to allow the Buddhist crowd to park
>their cars and celebrate Vesak Day in peace. Go to Assunta Hospital
>and see how the Police allow double parking for people attending the
>Church services.
i thought you have killfile me after your last outburst on me ;-))
yes, i have erred on the sunday morning parking but not on the evening
parking.
i go to sfx church which is at the junction of the epf and highway,
so late comers tend to "crash land" on the nearest available park on the
side so much so as to reach the traffic lights.
about 10 years ago, i witnessed a huge crowd of church goers arguing with
the matamata making his quota -- well for those cars parked say 10 metres
from the junction the is reason to summon but those that stretched from
there right up to your favourite ipoh kai fun, were summoned is i think not
justified..
it was then that fr paul tan, now bishop of malacca, came out to dissuade
the police from sticking strictly to the book. fr tan was ignored. fr tan
then spoke to mm and i think some grudging blind spots were exercised from
time to time.
as for me, i get to evening mass early and had some corner in the sfx car
park to celebrate my mass in peace.
i don't attend morning masses at all except in kb, kt, so, i cannot confirm
with you on whether the blind spots are temporarily suffered during those
time.
can you confirm that the morning mass car parkers on the road at assumption
church are favourably bindspoted?
>
>What I sometimes see as erratic enforcement are at pasar malams.
>One Saturday night, I was not allowed to park on a pavement because
>the Police was having an exercise where they issued more than 100
>illegal parking tickets. The following week, there was no exercise and
>people were "not disallowed" to park on the pavements.
yea, i do see the commotion ;-))
with residential house owners joining the "quota" puncturing tyres, smash
windscreens, bent wipers. et al.
>
>Maybe Malaysia should introduce a special kind of lines where parking
>is permitted after say 7pm until 7 am the next morning. Places such as
>Jalan Imbi simply cannot handle the car-park requirement of dinners of
>the many restaurants there. So every night, people will park illegally
>and whether they are booked depends on whether there is a hard-working
>police officer who wanted to have an exercise that night and/or meet
>his quota. It's all luck and has nothing to do with law and order as I
>personally feel there is absolutely no reason to prohibit parking
>along the road at night.
>
>>every sunday, ALL cars parked outside the church in kl , pj anywhere are
>>slapped with summons
>
>I don't think that is true. This Sunday, why don't you go to Assunta
>Hospital and see whether what you alleged is true. They are subject to
>the same luck of timing of "exercises" as described above whereas
>places around the mosque are NEVER ever subject to such exercises.
>(maybe because all the policemen are in the mosques praying and nobody
>is on duty)
OF COURSE !!!!!!!! ;-))
>
>>in my last post before i retired in seremban, there was the usual yearly
>>(ONCE A YEAR ONLY) chinese going up the bukit china hill graveyard behind
>>jalan lee san. police and mbsn kept on slapping summons on cars parked
>>there for the 1 hour or so. as more cars come in, more summons are slapped.
>
>Yes, this is extremely regrettable around many Chinese graveyards.
>Here I think the Police should be educated about the filial
>requirement to visit and clean the graveyards of ancestors once a year
>and why the Police should "not disallow" parking.
this where and when i am DOUBLE PISSED with the predominantly malay
enforcements.
they COMMAND you that we should be sensitive to their culture
to date, the culture they have is no further from the culture plate.
what about they being sensitive to non muslim cultures.
is this recommendation part of the 300 over page police commission report
to pm ab?
you notice no church bells, even the cross, spires and "loud" hymn singing
are an affront to their sensitivities.
do you notice also no church is allowed to be built within SIGHT AND SOUND
OF a malaise community?
WTF
>
>>WTF is going on?
>>do you call this racisism?
>>do you call this corruption?
>
>This is yet another way of saying that not every facet of our society
>is multi-racial. The composition of the civil service and the military
>and the police is so Malay-dominated
uy
the police, mindef commisions have made it so
how many non malays applied to these intuitions ?
how many got rejected?
how many not called?
how may called and given shit duties so that they leave sooner or later?
> that among the many implications
>is that the Police is perceived by some as anti-Chinese and
>anti-Indian. They may well be doing their duty but everytime, a
>Chinese or an Indian is booked, someone will automatically shout
>"Racial discrimination"
they being the malay dominant component of the institutions would think it
right to summon the non malays.
i think the same situations happen in sg ?
>
cheers
pluto
Mr Magoo
Uncle Yap wrote:
----snip----
> anti-Indian. They may well be doing their duty but everytime, a
> Chinese or an Indian is booked, someone will automatically shout
> "Racial discrimination"
This is pretty true. Probably during their ops nect time, they can
provide a team comprises of at least one bigger races here. So whenever
they want to summon a Chinese driver, maybe they can let the Chinese
policeman handle the case? The same goes to for other races. :)
One more thing I would like to add, normally police will only act if
someone call in and make a complaint to them. Then only they will go
around and slap summon on those who has parked illegally there. Most of
the time they will just close one eye. This is normally the case if the
area complained falls within the privately own property.
Rgds,
Mr Magoo
Mr Magoo
pluto wrote:
----snip----
> you notice no church bells, even the cross, spires and "loud" hymn
singing
> are an affront to their sensitivities.
Are you sure of that?
> do you notice also no church is allowed to be built within SIGHT AND
SOUND
> OF a malaise community?
This is another general statement which I think is nothing but a wild
allegation.
----snip----
> i think the same situations happen in sg ?
>
I think you are pretty fast in generalising things when you see one.
Rgds,
Mr Magoo
pluto
quoted:
"
>
>pluto wrote:
>
>----snip----
>
>> you notice no church bells, even the cross, spires and "loud" hymn
>singing
>> are an affront to their sensitivities.
>
>Are you sure of that?
are you in my?
>
>> do you notice also no church is allowed to be built within SIGHT AND
>SOUND
>> OF a malaise community?
>
>This is another general statement which I think is nothing but a wild
>allegation.
http://www.malaysiakini.com/news/36280
Church relocation rejected following residents' protest
Fauwaz Abdul Aziz
May 19, 05 3:24pm
An application to relocate an Anglican church to Taman Bukit Mewah, Kajang,
has been rejected by the local municipal council (MPKj) following
objections by residents.
The church, built almost a century ago in the early 1900s, had applied to
convert a residential land in the housing estate to be used as a house of
worship following a decision by property developer Serba Sentosa Bhd to
reclaim the land where the church is currently located
The developer wants the turn the land in the Kajang town into a commercial
area.
However protests by mostly Muslim-Malay residents in and around Phase 8A, a
housing project, of Taman Bukit Mewah in February rendered uncertain the
application by Anglican Diocese of West Malaysia to convert a targeted plot
of land from ‘residential’ to church.
“We rejected that application because the status of the land is residential
and the area a residential one,” said an MPKj spokesperson.
“The church was not included in the area’s layout regulations,” he said
when contacted.
The official admitted, however, that the rejection of the application was
also “due to the protests by local residents” who were represented by
‘eight parties’.
These include a representative of a ‘surau’ (place of prayer for Muslims)
amongst other bodies, he said further.
He did not specify the date of the decision, nor the identity of the people
on the committee that had deliberated on the application or that of the
parties who had filed the objections.
Parishioner express relief
Earlier, malaysiakini had reported that more than 1,000 Muslims from Phase
8A are said to have signed a petition opposing the church relocation to the
area and registered their protest in a memorandum to MPKj.
Osman Suboh, who heads a local surau and who had organised the petition,
said the objections were not meant to curtail anybody’s freedom to
religious worship, but questioned the relocation of a Christian place of
worship in an area that was allegedly predominated by Malay Muslims.
When contacted, a parishoner of the church expressed relief that the church
did not, for the time being, have to move.
“Most church members would prefer not to move at all. We’re quite happy to
be where we are,” said the parishioner, who declined to be named.
The parishioner repeated, however, an earlier assertion that the Anglican
community in Kajang would abide by the decision of MPKj as well as the
office of the Anglican Bishop for West Malaysia.
“Whether we are to relocate to an alternative area or not and where that
alternative area is, that is completely up to the headquarters. We will
abide by what they say,” added the parishioner.
The bishop could not be reached for comments as he is currently overseas.
======================
this is one of the few agonies suffered by churches
other members esp u yap and lucia lai can vouch
i forgot a church was first approved by a council , then pushed further and
tuther away from the dioces because the malaise move into the diocese,
hence the council has to cancel the approval and approve another area
further away. this went on for some 10 years . i dont know if the church
was ever built.
>
>----snip----
>
>> i think the same situations happen in sg ?
>>
>
>I think you are pretty fast in generalising things when you see one.
yes, if i see it being protracted .
Mr Magoo
pluto wrote:
> "On 20 May 2005 01:25:59 -0700, "Mr Magoo" <sh...@usa.com>
wrote/and/or
> quoted:
> "
> >
> >pluto wrote:
> >
> >----snip----
> >
> >> you notice no church bells, even the cross, spires and "loud" hymn
> >singing
> >> are an affront to their sensitivities.
> >
> >Are you sure of that?
> yes
> are you in my?
I am here most of the time except perhaps for a total duration of 6
years of my life up to today. :)
> >
> >> do you notice also no church is allowed to be built within SIGHT
AND
> >SOUND
> >> OF a malaise community?
> >
> >This is another general statement which I think is nothing but a
wild
> >allegation.
> then read this:
> http://www.malaysiakini.com/news/36280
> Church relocation rejected following residents' protest
> Fauwaz Abdul Aziz
> May 19, 05 3:24pm
That is why I have said that you are quite fast in making a general
conclusion. You read one or two article about it, it is already enough
for you to make up your mind.
Rgds,
Mr Magoo
pluto
quoted:
"
>
>pluto wrote:
>> "On 20 May 2005 01:25:59 -0700, "Mr Magoo" <sh...@usa.com>
>wrote/and/or
>> quoted:
>> "
>> >
>> >pluto wrote:
>> >
>> >----snip----
>> >
>> >> you notice no church bells, even the cross, spires and "loud" hymn
>> >singing
>> >> are an affront to their sensitivities.
>> >
>> >Are you sure of that?
>> yes
>> are you in my?
>
>I am here most of the time except perhaps for a total duration of 6
>years of my life up to today. :)
good ;-)
that should make discussion easier ;)
>
>> >
>> >> do you notice also no church is allowed to be built within SIGHT
>AND
>> >SOUND
>> >> OF a malaise community?
>> >
>> >This is another general statement which I think is nothing but a
>wild
>> >allegation.
>> then read this:
>> http://www.malaysiakini.com/news/36280
>> Church relocation rejected following residents' protest
>> Fauwaz Abdul Aziz
>> May 19, 05 3:24pm
>
>That is why I have said that you are quite fast in making a general
>conclusion. You read one or two article about it, it is already enough
>for you to make up your mind.
hmm yes k magoo
i just quoted today's latest post as an example to show the situation,
i hold you as one of the most vocal bumi in this group
and would be able to get more examples and maybe you already know
but prefer others to feed you the information ;-))
surely you have heard of a body called quite a mouthfull:
mcccbhs... ?
(malaysian consultative council of christianity, buddhism, hinduism, and
sikhism)
in the inaugeral meeting, the muslim bodies were invited -- they refused to
have any part of it
when later on the mcccbhs passed certain resolutions to be tabled to the
government, the umno youth protested against the memorandum
do yourself a favour, search for this bodies
draw your own conclusion.
i doubt many people here would like to dicuss this issue as it is to my
governemt a sensitive one .
michael
Mr Magoo wrote:
> Uncle Yap wrote:
[deleted]
> > So if the Police were really serious about upholding every letter
of
> > the law, then they should enforce it not just at
> predominantly-Chinese
> > Lawan Kuda new village in Gopeng but every rural village, kampong
and
> > Felda scheme
>
> Seriously Uncle. In a population of 8000, let say 1 motorcycle for
> every 8 (Which I believed a very low estimation here 1:5 will be more
> realistic). So it comes down to a total of 1000 motorcycle for that
> area. so 600 summons per 1000 motorcycle in 2 years. That comes down
to
> 0.3 summons per motorcyclist per year. I believed that is much less
> than the average number of summon each of us get per year, Uncle.
Imagine the amount that have gone to line the pockets of someone as
most motorbike offences never even pass the compound stage. :)
regards,
michael ... afn2...@afn.org
sch
"michael" <afn2...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1116667461.3...@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Imagine the amount that have gone to line the pockets of someone as
> most motorbike offences never even pass the compound stage. :)
>
> regards,
> michael ... afn2...@afn.org
>
This is only lesson one towards the making of RM.34 million :)
sch