Mel Gibson's dad denies the Holocaust
Szaki
Jesus, they should keep in mind that Mel Gibson's dad openly contends
that the Holocaust is a lie. The 83 year old denies that the Germans
committed all those unspeakable crimes the Holocaust industry keeps
accusing them of. Old man Gibson says there was no Holocaust.
It takes a lot of guts for that old man to make such public
statements. Some people have been physically attacked for such
statements. Some people are sitting behind bars for just such public
statements. Just because of his beliefs, the old man cannot enter
Canada, Austria, France, Switzerland or Germany, and if he comes to
America, he could be attacked in the street by fanatics. His son, Mel
Gibson, is being attacked in the press as an antisemite.
So in honor of the sheer guts of the honorable Mr. Gibson, the
least we can do is remember him while we all watch the movie. Perhaps
we should pass out pamphlets, or at least remind the person sitting
next to us in the theatre the Mel Gibson's dad denies the Holocaust.
It something no person should forget.
George B.
He does not have *Faith* in line with that cult:
http://www.vho.org/aaargh/engl/commentaries/goldberg.html
"Szaki" <sza...@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<7qy_b.376534$I06.4079978@attbi_s01>...
> As moviegoers sit through Mel Gibson's version of the sufferings of
> Jesus, they should keep in mind that Mel Gibson's dad openly contends
> that the Holocaust is a lie. The 83 year old denies that the Germans
> committed all those unspeakable crimes the Holocaust industry keeps
> accusing them of. Old man Gibson says there was no Holocaust.
Look up: http://www.speakyourpiece.net/gibson.pdf
see also "collective guilt" - downwards...
>
> It takes a lot of guts for that old man to make such public
> statements. Some people have been physically attacked for such
> statements. Some people are sitting behind bars for just such public
> statements. Just because of his beliefs, the old man cannot enter
> Canada, Austria, France, Switzerland or Germany, and if he comes to
> America, he could be attacked in the street by fanatics. His son, Mel
> Gibson, is being attacked in the press as an antisemite.
Look up: http://www.supportmelgibson.com
>
> So in honor of the sheer guts of the honorable Mr. Gibson, the
> least we can do is remember him while we all watch the movie. Perhaps
> we should pass out pamphlets, or at least remind the person sitting
> next to us in the theatre the Mel Gibson's dad denies the Holocaust.
> It something no person should forget.
Look up: Good idea, but get your facts straight. I think something
like that is already discussed. There are pamflets going around...via
e-mail
Look up: http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/dth and of course
http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/trr
The ADL accuses Gibson to put the blame for the killing of Jesus on
the Jews (colectivily). Meanwhile the ADL itself propagates
(collective) German guilt for the "Holocaust" they propagate:
"...1. What is the meaning of the word Holocaust?
The Holocaust is the systematic, state-sponsored murder of six million
Jews and millions of other people by the Germans and their
collaborators during World War II. ..."
http://www.adl.org/uprising/faq.asp
By "other people" they most probably mean Hungarians, too...
So much for 'blood libel', bigottery and prejudice.
Most obviously they try to enforce everybody to believe into their
"Holocaust"-Religion but ooooh if some-one proclaims christianity
literally? Did the "Holocaust" replace calvary?
Szaki
evben, valami BS filmel kijonnek, propaganda holohoax-al, uszitjak az
embereket vele.
Nemetek sem voltak angyalok, foleg, mikor a haborut vesztettek, sok ember
meghalt a taborokban, oroszok, ciganyok, zsidok....de nem tomeges
gazolastol, ahogy ok allitjak.
US 150 ezer Japant tett munka taborokba, Pearl Harbor utan. US sose volt
szonyeg bombazva, a haboru mashol tortent nekik, igy ezek a Japanok konnyen
megusztak.
Kepzeld ha forditva lett volna, az egesz orszag bombazva lett volna, tobb
millio amerikai halott, borzalmas modon, biztos lettek vola amerikai tabor
parancsnokok, akik ki hasznaltak volna ezeket a Japan embereket, nemzeti
erzeseik miatt vagy bosszubol.
Even if the defenders of the holocaust story were able to produce a document
proving that some Jews were gassed in World War Two, this would not
invalidate the revisionist thesis, as one or two isolated cases would
probably have been the work of a few criminal individuals. However, it
should be stressed that not even one case of homicidal gassing by the
Germans during World War Two has ever been proved by a document and that not
a single body of a gassed prisoner was found by the allied troops who
liberated the German concentrations camps in 1944 and 1945. This is candidly
admitted by the orthodox holocaust historians.
JS
tim gueguen
> Even if the defenders of the holocaust story were able to produce a
document
> proving that some Jews were gassed in World War Two,
Even if one were to take such a silly statement at face value the Germans
murdered plenty of Jews the good old fashioned way, by lining them up and
shooting them. Just look up the term Einsatzgruppen.
<rest of blather snipped>
tim gueguen 101867
gilgames
Just look up the term Einsatzgruppen.
>>
Tpikus peldaja a Babij Jar. Sztalin ismetelten megparancsolta az
evakualast, de a zsido nemzetisegunek bejegyzettek megtagadjak Sztalin
parancsat es ottmaradnak.
Kiev utcain az ostrom utan hever 1 millio halott. Allitolag a nemetek
kihirdetik hogy a biboldok jelentekezzenek (igy, serto szoval). Azok
lelkiismeretes jelentkeznek a gyulekezohelyen (az ostrom utan ket nappal
falragaszra), holott tudjak hogy elotte megis csak a joreszt zsido
nemzetisegunek bejegyzett allamvedelmi szervek 8-11 millio ukrant
kicsinaltak, es a rokonaik most bosszuert lihegnek.
A nemetek is hulyek, mert ahelyett hogy halottakat szedetnenek ossze
veluk, szazas csoportban felvonultatva egyenkint lelovik oket bele a
szakadekba. A hulyek meg turelmesen varnak amig sor kerul rajuk.
Nagy a ti hitetek.
WareWolf
Hell, my Dad says a lot of silly shit in public, too.
Dusty
--
"The Devils' Right Hand" by Dusty Rhoades COMING from St. Martin's/Minotaur
Szaki
guns.
Other nations involved in the war, did it also, planty of times.
JS
"tim gueguen" <tgue...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:hPL3c.764498$ts4.599670@pd7tw3no...
Szaki
http://www.katyn.org.au/naziphotos.html
JS
"tim gueguen" <tgue...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:hPL3c.764498$ts4.599670@pd7tw3no...
>
tim gueguen
> We talking about the Holocau$t ( mass gasing) here, not shooting people
with
> guns.
>
all sorts of people, especially Jews. The death camps were created because
shooting people was too slow and was hard on the shooters.
tim gueguen 101867
tim gueguen
> How bout you, look it this web-site very close. Who's shooting who!?
>
> http://www.katyn.org.au/naziphotos.html
>
millions?
tim gueguen 101867
Szaki
camps.
Jew fucker, like you.
JS
"tim gueguen" <tgue...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:DiS3c.768137$ts4.531549@pd7tw3no...
Szaki
civilians? Influenza?
JS
"tim gueguen" <tgue...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:zkS3c.768158$ts4.439972@pd7tw3no...
LaszloK
"tim gueguen" <tgue...@shaw.ca> skrev i meddelandet
news:DiS3c.768137$ts4.531549@pd7tw3no...
You are talking to an analfabet, an idiot unable to
read or count. So you must write v e r y s l o w l y
t o t h i s g u y ! ! !
Don't use too difficult words, keep to some easy
"fuck you" and "dickhead" - he does not understand
any more complex expressions.
/ LaszloK
daneldorado
"George B." <bart...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:748f6132.0403...@posting.google.com...
> Better: He admits that he does not *believe* "in the Holocaust".
> He does not have *Faith* in line with that cult:
> http://www.vho.org/aaargh/engl/commentaries/goldberg.html
May I ask this question, as honestly and as fairly as I can?
WHERE is it officially documented, that the Holocaust actually took place?
Where does it say that 6 million Jews were gassed by the Nazis? In what
chronicle is all this data recorded?
I'm not joking here, and I'm not anti-semitic. I'm simply curious to know
the basis for these claims.
Dan N.
gilgames
eletoszton vegso ketsegbeesese.
gilgames
including
civilians? Influenza?
JS>>
10 millio ferfi. Es erdekes modon ez bizonyithato a
nepessegstatisztikakbol. A magyar statisztikaban is a ferfihiany
lenyegesen magasabb a katonak pusztulasa miatt.
Szaki
budos zsido anyadban, ahonan kijottel.
Ezt is beirhatod a statisztikatba, ha meg tudsz szamolni, te vak zsido
cigany.
Beszelni csak ugy tudsz, mint a lotyi Jozsi a faluvegen.
JS
"LaszloK" <las...@thotmail.com> wrote in message
news:a7V3c.85749$dP1.2...@newsc.telia.net...
Richard
I think that attacking Mel Gibson because of his father's ideas is
about as fair as attacking someone who graduated from Harvard with
a PhD in philosophy because their mother just happened to be
a whore.
-Rich
gilgames
I think that attacking Mel Gibson because of his father's ideas is
about as fair as attacking someone who graduated from Harvard with
a PhD in philosophy because their mother just happened to be
a whore.
-Rich
>>
Rosszabb az olyan mintha valakit azert tamadnanak mert az anyjarol azt
kialtozzak hogy kurva. Mel Gibson apja csak nemhisz azok vallasaban akik
gulolik a szemitakat, az irakiakat, szireket es arabokat, es veluk
egyutt pl a magyar is kollektivan bunos nepnek tartjak. Ez meg nem
teszi ot a feniek ellensegeve. En sem hiszek Mohamed vallasaban, de ez
nem tesz kovetoi ellensegeve.
R. Cohen
Do a google search on Holocaust documentation, that will get you started.
Szaki
little value.
JS
"R. Cohen" <rlcc...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:a140b0ad.04031...@posting.google.com...
SemiScholar
Except that Mel Gibson defends his father, and even defends some of
those wacky ideas.
gilgames
Except that Mel Gibson defends his father, and even defends some of
those wacky ideas.
>>
Why is it problem if someone doubts an opinion which needs the
Inquisition and prison terms to proove itself?
Everyone coukld argue against him by showing the facts. Why should it
claim to be "wacky", istead of the arguments.
According to the Encyclopedia Britannica and World Almanach in 1990
tehre were 18 million Jews in the world, 8 million in the US. Today the
most claimed total is 13 million the US number is around 6 million. What
happend. This was the Holocaust of the end of the 20th Century?
SemiScholar
><<
>Except that Mel Gibson defends his father, and even defends some of
>those wacky ideas.
> >>
>
>Why is it problem if someone doubts an opinion which needs the
>Inquisition and prison terms to proove itself?
??? What the hell are you talking about?
>
>Everyone coukld argue against him by showing the facts. Why should it
>claim to be "wacky", istead of the arguments.
The arguments and the facts are all well-known and have been published
in many, many places. That the Holocaust took place is not in doubt
by any serious person who has looked into it in any depth at all.
>
>According to the Encyclopedia Britannica and World Almanach in 1990
>tehre were 18 million Jews in the world, 8 million in the US. Today the
>most claimed total is 13 million the US number is around 6 million. What
>happend. This was the Holocaust of the end of the 20th Century?
??? Huh? Sheesh!
Take your meds.
tur...@shaw.ca
<noe...@spambegone.com> wrote:
>??? What the hell are you talking about?
menyetek ma' a picskaba ezzel!
SemiScholar
goo goo ka-joob.
tur...@shaw.ca
Szaki
by any serious person who has looked into it in any depth at all.>>
How about you, did you look into it in depth at all?
After 60 years still making and playing tons of these Holohoax movies, to
keep the public mined in check-mate, like a toilet paper commercial, "you
see how bad the Nazis were". Mainly children growing mined, to create their
believe system, Jewish ways. (New coming out, "Hellboy", for teenagers!)
Mean while glorifying Ally pilots, who carpet bombed cities, including
Magyar, killing tens of thousands citizens. One American, pilot said, about
the accuracy of the bombing: "We can bomb and hit any town we want, long as
it big enough."
JS
"SemiScholar" <noe...@spambegone.com> wrote in message
news:rge150lod3is1mh9g...@4ax.com...
gilgames
gilgames
gilgames
gilgames
The arguments and the facts are all well-known and have been published
in many, many places. That the Holocaust took place is not in doubt
by any serious person who has looked into it in any depth at all.
>>
Also tehre is no doubt taht the 20th Century had 100 million victims
killed out of hatred. Were is the talk about the 94 million. Where are
the movies about them when will be their murderes hanged, who will
incite hatred against them, and most of all: when will the murderers and
their silent accomplices pay?. Sixteen times as mauch as was done for
the Holocaust.
I belive this is right directions, hatred gives birth to hatred. The
humanity will neve forgive.
tim gueguen
> Wrong, idiot, those were laber camps, jews holocau$t story makes it death
> camps.
> Jew fucker, like you.
>
I'm starting to wonder if its time to find some webspace and post a personal
faq....
tim gueguen 101867
SemiScholar
><<That the Holocaust took place is not in doubt
>by any serious person who has looked into it in any depth at all.>>
>
>How about you, did you look into it in depth at all?
Yep. I've read numerous first-person accounts by survivors and a
number of history texts and other books about it. It's quite well
documented.
>
>After 60 years still making and playing tons of these Holohoax movies, to
>keep the public mined in check-mate, like a toilet paper commercial, "you
>see how bad the Nazis were". Mainly children growing mined, to create their
>believe system, Jewish ways. (New coming out, "Hellboy", for teenagers!)
>Mean while glorifying Ally pilots, who carpet bombed cities, including
>Magyar, killing tens of thousands citizens. One American, pilot said, about
>the accuracy of the bombing: "We can bomb and hit any town we want, long as
>it big enough."
>
All that typing, and yet nothing to say. You know, it would have
been faster if you had just typed random letters, and it would make as
much sense.
Or maybe you could just type Hungarian.
tim gueguen
> Oh, millions? How did more than 9 million Germans die in the war,
including
> civilians? Influenza?
>
launching a war of violent conquest against their neighbours. No invasion
of Poland, Belgium, France, the Soviet Union and on and on, no German war
dead.
tim gueguen 101867
tim gueguen
> <<That the Holocaust took place is not in doubt
> by any serious person who has looked into it in any depth at all.>>
>
> How about you, did you look into it in depth at all?
>
> After 60 years still making and playing tons of these Holohoax movies, to
> keep the public mined in check-mate, like a toilet paper commercial, "you
> see how bad the Nazis were".
Even if there was no Holocaust the mere fact that Germany invaded much of
Europe under Nazi control would make the Nazis bad.
tim gueguen 101867
tim gueguen
> Those are posted or financed by Jews, like the Nizkor project website.
Very
> little value.
>
tim gueguen 101867
tim gueguen
of any size.
Like any other historic event our knowledge of the Holocaust comes from
government documents, physical evidence, testimony from those involved and
on and on.
tim gueguen 101867
Szaki
<<I've read numerous first-person accounts by survivors and a
> number of history texts and other books about it.>>
There is sure planty out there, Holocau$t industry need that!
JS
"SemiScholar" <noe...@spambegone.com> wrote in message
news:i9n150pr0012ntdqe...@4ax.com...
Szaki
talks against the Holocau$t!
There was an issue in one library, where they found anti-holocaust material,
it was removed by the FBI. You see, some college professors, write that
stuff. If I can dig it up, mail it to you. It's been a few years now.
JS
"tim gueguen" <tgue...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:m754c.778037$ts4.321647@pd7tw3no...
Szaki
JS
"tim gueguen" <tgue...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:7554c.27990$Up2.16189@pd7tw1no...
Richard
If Mel Gibson has denied the Holocaust happened, then attack him for it.
-Rich
Szaki
Vietnam, Korea, there wouldn't be American death to worry about. Russia
shouldn't lunch a war in Afghanistan or Chechnia, would've save countless
live and horror.
These countries, not been cut up by the treaty of Versailles, or make war
payment in astronomical some and trying to survive economically, they just
expending their economical boarders, they all ready super powers, beating on
little countries, gasping for air. Russia and US, have more land, what they
need, more
resources, minerals etc.. than any body else. They still start a war, oh, of
course, I forgot, it's only world policing action.
JS
"tim gueguen" <tgue...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:i154c.778005$ts4.75364@pd7tw3no...
Morghus
> "George B." <bart...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:748f6132.0403...@posting.google.com...
> > Better: He admits that he does not *believe* "in the Holocaust".
> > He does not have *Faith* in line with that cult:
> > http://www.vho.org/aaargh/engl/commentaries/goldberg.html
>
>
> May I ask this question, as honestly and as fairly as I can?
>
> WHERE is it officially documented, that the Holocaust actually took place?
> Where does it say that 6 million Jews were gassed by the Nazis? In what
> chronicle is all this data recorded?
>
> I'm not joking here, and I'm not anti-semitic. I'm simply curious to know
> the basis for these claims.
>
That was the wrong question, Dan. (H)olocaust promoters can
smother you with "official" estimates, opinions, court rulings, and
survivor testimony. They have scads and scads of literature supporting
the many (H)olocaust tales. What they lack in concrete or credible
evidence they make up with incredible heaps of incredible crap. They
have eyewitnesses waiting in the wings to recite heart-rending tales
of cruelty and death, ready and willing to relentlessly accuse the
German people of unspeakable atrocities at the drop of a coin. That's
the (H)olocaust evidence.
But they have nothing else. No one ever found any gas chambers
after the war. The kindly Soviet keepers at Auschwitz graciously
built one for the tourists some years later. No one ever found any
official German documents ordering that Jews were to be killed. No
one has ever found a general order to kill Jews issuued by Hitler--or
any other German official, military or civilian. There is not one
document mentioning mass gassings of Jews in any of the tons of
official German correspondence, or German secret messages, or German
records recovered after the war. The Germans were meticulous
record-keepers--but there is no German record of the (H)olocaust.
The (H)olocaust hucksters get around the complete absence of any
record of the (H)olocaust by claiming some German records contain
"code words." Ordinary German words that mean something else in
ordinary language really meant murder-most-foul when related to Jews,
according to some (H)olocaust "experts." If the Germans used the word
"deportieren" (to deport), they really meant murder. To the
(H)olocaust crowd, the German word "umseidlung" (resettlement)always
meant kill. Any german word with "special" in it was a code word for
murder: Sonderbehandlung (special handling), Sonderaktion (special
action), Sonderwagen (special wagen), and many others, we are told by
the (H)olocaust lecturers, really signified special murder. The
Germans, we are supposed to believe, always used "euphemisms" when
speaking of killing Jews. They used euphemisms in all their
documents, all their orders, all their reports, even in all their
private diaries--the allies seized hundreds of personal diaries and
combed them for evidence of the (H)olocaust. Guess what? Not a
single entry in any private diary mentioned the (H)olocaust.
The (H)olocaust is based entirely on survivor tales. And what
tales they are. According to the survivors, the Germans could cremate
a body in less then fifteen minutes, even though modern crematoria
can't do that in less than an hour. And the Germans didn't even need
fuel--Jews burned like firewood. Despite the fact that diesel engines
are approved in mines and closed working places because diesel exhaust
contains harmless amounts of carbon monoxide, many survivors claim
that the Germans killed Jews in only minutes using nothing but diesel
exhaust. One survivor claimed the Germans had a special delayed
action gas that allowed Jews to walk to their graves before keeling
over. There are other tales: vacuum chambers, electric shock plates,
head-splitting machines, hungry dogs, cliff-jumping, target shooting,
and on, and on. And the (H)olocaust crowd expects you to believe
every word. Steven Spielberg is collecting hundreds of such testimony
to regale you for years to come.
I warn you--don't question any of it--if you don't want to be
thought of as (gasp!!) antisemitic.
gilgames
German deaths in WW2 were the direct result of Adolph Hitler and his cronies
launching a war of violent conquest against their neighbours. No invasion
of Poland, Belgium, France, the Soviet Union and on and on, no German war
dead.
>>
What about the 8 million Kozaks exterminated by the State Security of
the Sovietunion in 1932-1933? What about the 600,000 Krimean Tatarts
exterminated by the same forces? What about the Volgean Germans also
exterminated? What about 40 million Cinease peasant rutlessy
exterminated by the Great Jump dream?
Why are there people less important than the Jews?
Szaki
By the Devil!
Ask, LaszloK! He'll explain it, in his beautiful Magyar tongue!
JS
"gilgames" <Gl...@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:PL64c.33128$PY.1...@newssvr26.news.prodigy.com...
tur...@shaw.ca
>What about 40 million Cinease peasant rutlessy
>exterminated by the Great Jump dream?
nem akartak ugrani?
tim gueguen
"gilgames" <Gl...@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:PL64c.33128$PY.1...@newssvr26.news.prodigy.com...
> <<
> Why are there people less important than the Jews?
>
Who claims they are?
tim gueguen 101867
tim gueguen
"Morghus" <mor...@MailAndNews.com> wrote in message
news:73fedc95.04031...@posting.google.com...
> "daneldorado" <danel...@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:<s42dnb8Vt6-...@adelphia.com>...
> > "George B." <bart...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:748f6132.0403...@posting.google.com...
> > > Better: He admits that he does not *believe* "in the Holocaust".
> > > He does not have *Faith* in line with that cult:
> > > http://www.vho.org/aaargh/engl/commentaries/goldberg.html
> >
> >
> > May I ask this question, as honestly and as fairly as I can?
> >
> > WHERE is it officially documented, that the Holocaust actually took
place?
> > Where does it say that 6 million Jews were gassed by the Nazis? In what
> > chronicle is all this data recorded?
> >
> > I'm not joking here, and I'm not anti-semitic. I'm simply curious to
know
> > the basis for these claims.
> >
> > Dan N.
>
> That was the wrong question, Dan. (H)olocaust promoters can
> smother you with "official" estimates, opinions, court rulings, and
> survivor testimony. They have scads and scads of literature supporting
> the many (H)olocaust tales. What they lack in concrete or credible
> evidence they make up with incredible heaps of incredible crap.
A claim which no credible historian supports.
tim gueguen 101867
tim gueguen
>. If I can dig it up, mail it to you. It's been a few years now.
Don't mail me anything. I've got enough spam crap clogging my mailbox, I
don't need more from yet another nutter.
tim gueguen 101867
Johnny Asia
handling the estate of a wealthy Jewish woman, among the belonging was
a "human skin" lampshade. My girlfriend got the creeps, and didn't
know what to do with it. The lampshade was displayed in a glass case,
as proof of German cruelty. My girlfriend believed it was made of
human skin, even I believed it, just like we are taught to believe
those stories from "history textbooks" in American schools.
A large university tested the lampshade, and it turned out to be made
of pig skin!
I searched for info about "human skin lampshades" and found this site
about a court reporter who covered the Dachau War Crime Trials:
http://www.scrapbookpages.com/DachauScrapbook/DachauTrials/index.html
Dachau War Crime Trials
"The trials at Dachau brought some of the worst traits of mankind to
light. But, as I found out, at Dachau and from the case records years
later, those trials served neither historical truth, nor justice." -
Joseph Halow, Dachau court reporter, 1992, "Innocent at Dachau"
"And that was introduced in court, where it was absolutely proven that
the lamp shades were made out of goat skin."
http://www.scrapbookpages.com/DachauScrapbook/DachauTrials/IlseKoch.html
The Trial of Else Koch, the "Bitch of Buchenwald"
The most notorious war criminal, of all those who were brought before
the American Military Tribunal at Dachau, was unquestionably Ilse
Koch, the wife of Karl Otto Koch, the infamous former Commandant of
the Buchenwald concentration camp, and an SS-Aufseherin (female
overseer) in the camp herself. The two photographs above show the
41-year-old "Bitch of Buchenwald" in the courtroom at Dachau. Ilse
Koch was charged with the horrific crime of selecting Buchenwald
prisoners to be killed by her alleged lover, Dr. Waldemar Hoven, in
order to have lamp shades made from their tattooed skin.
After the war, American investigators tried to get Konrad Morgen to
sign an affidavit that Frau Koch had ordered prisoners killed to make
human lamp shades, but he refused, even after several beatings. The
following quote is from a footnote in John Toland's book, entitled
"Adolf Hitler":
"Morgen also did his best to convict Ilse Koch, the wife of the
Buchenwald commandant. He was convinced that she was guilty of
sadistic crimes, but the charges against her could not be proven.
After the war Morgen was asked by an American official to testify that
Frau Koch made lampshades from the skin of inmates. Morgen replied
that, while she undoubtedly was guilty of many crimes, she was truly
innocent of this charge.
According to Jean Edward Smith in his biography, "Lucius D. Clay, an
American Life, "the general maintained that the leather lamp shades
were really made out of goat skin. The book quotes a statement made by
General Clay years later:
"There was absolutely no evidence in the trial transcript, other than
she was a rather loathsome creature, that would support the death
sentence. I suppose I received more abuse for that than for anything
else I did in Germany. Some reporter had called her the "Bitch of
Buchenwald," had written that she had lamp shades made of human skin
in her house. And that was introduced in court, where it was
absolutely proven that the lamp shades were made out of goat skin."
According to the Buchenwald Report, there was a factory at Buchenwald,
which produced leather goods out of animal skins, but it caught on
fire during an Allied bombing raid on the camp on August 24, 1944.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A rumor having to do with soap made with human fat circulated in
Europe during World War II. It was one of several rumors which had
ghoulish behavior of Nazis as the central theme. This rumor was a
variation on a black propaganda story concocted by the British about
the Germans during World War I. During that war a story appeared in
the German press that the Germans were taking dead horses and
rendering the fat from them to be used in soap. Germany is a country
of shortage during wartime and nothing is let go to waste. The British
altered the story and fed it back into Germany that dead German
soldiers were being rendered for their fat for soap production
instead. After the war was over, Great Britain apologized for this and
other atrocity stories it spread during the war.
This story was resurrected during World War II in a Germany again
beset by war shortages. There are at least three versions of the human
soap story as it relates to Nazi Germany. The first and one most
widely circulated was that soap was made using fat rendered from the
bodies of murdered Jews. This soap was stamped with the initials "RJF"
which allegedly meant the soap was made from pure Jewish fat.
Actually, the stamp on the soap was "RIF" which stood for Reichsstelle
Industrielle Fettversorgung, the organization that made the soap.
Johnny Asia
>>
>> I'm not joking here, and I'm not anti-semitic. I'm simply curious to know
>> the basis for these claims.
>>
>> Dan N.
Many of those stories are like the "Babies in incubators"
story the Bush backed PR firm made up for the first Iraq invasion.
The U.S. and UK fire bombing of German civilans was just as evil
as anything the Nazis did, and the horrific tales of "human skin
lampshades" made it possible to justify the war crimes we committed by
saying "They were very evil people"
The conflict in the Middle East, and the "War on Terrorism", have
their roots in British religious fanaticism. There would be no modern
state of Israel if not for the "British Israel theory", a belief that
the British, Americans and several other European nations are the lost
10 Tribes of Israel. British Israel theory is based on so-called
"Bible prophecies" concerning Israel in "the last days", after which
Jesus Christ is supposed to return to earth in a murderous, vengeful
rage in the battle of Armageddon, rewarding his true believers, while
punishing "evildoers".
BRITISH LITERALIST FOREIGN POLICY
The British Literalists--strong among the Anglican Evangelicals and in
various Nonconformist churches--were not about to abandon their hopes
of converting Jews and sending them to Palestine to meet their
Messiah, especially not around 1840, when the current British policy
of offering protection to Jews living in Palestine raised great
expectations among the the premillennialists. Indeed, Literalist
influence was unofficially helping to shape that policy. An ardent
Literalist, Lord Ashley (later the Earl of Shaftesbury), was stepson-
in-law and confidant of Lord Palmerston, the British foreign
secretary. Ashley had private hopes of bringing about, through British
action, the restoration of Israel to Palestine in preparation for the
Second Advent. In 1840 he prodded Palmerston, by adducing political
reasons, into seeking international backing for Jewish migration to
Palestine, while he confided to his diary his own very different
motives, which were distinctly religious:
Dined with Palmerston. After dinner left alone with him. Propounded my
scheme, which seemed to strike his fancy . . . . Palmerston has
already been chosen by God to be an instrument of good to His ancient
people; to do homage, as it were, to their inheritance, and to
recognise their rights without believing their destiny . . . . I am
forced to argue politically, financially, commercially; these
considerations strike him home; he weeps not like his Master over
Jerusalem, nor prays that now, at last, she may put on her beautiful
garments.[1]
Ashley's influence was likewise behind the establishment of a
consulate in Jerusalem in 1838, also the creating of an Anglican
bishopric there in 1841 and the appointment to it of a Jewish
Christian bishop. On October 16, 1841, he wrote in his diary: "Where
would the Sultan's permission [to build the bishop's church] have been
without Palmerston's vigour in consequence of my repeated and earnest
representations?"[2]
But Ashley's dream of a British-sponsored and treaty-protected Jewish
migration to Palestine did not materialize. The four-power treaty of
1840 ignored the matter. Even the Jews themselves showed little
interest; more than half a century passed before Zionism arose.
[p. 4] Nevertheless, 20th-century British policy in the Middle East
owed something to the prophetic interpretation of the Literalists of
the 1830s and 1840s.
As one recent writer has put it:
Lord Shaftesbury's adventure marks the point when events began leading
logically toward the [Palestine] Mandate. . . .
Palmerston['s Middle Eastern policies] mark the beginning of official
British intervention on behalf of the "Jewish nation" and of its
resettlement in Palestine. . . .
Ashley had not labored in vain. . . . All these events centering in
the Holy Land [including "the visionary prospects aroused by the
Evangelical craze for conversion of the Jews and the Jerusalem
bishopric"] combined to create almost a proprietary feeling about
Palestine. The idea of a British annex there through the medium of a
British-sponsored restoration of Israel began to appeal to other minds
than Ashley's.[3]
[1] Anthony Ashley, Earl of Shaftesbury, Diary entries, quoted in
Edwin Hodder, The Life and Work of the Seventh Earl of Shaftesbury,
vol. 1, pp. 310, 311. Ashley was the one referred to, but not named
(in London Times, Aug. 17, 1840, p. 3, col. 5), as the promoter of
western-sponsored Jewish migration to Palestine.
[2] Hodder, op. cit., vol. 1, p. 377 (cf. pp. 370, 374). See also
Harold Temperley, England and the Near East: The Crimea (1936), p.
443, note 275; Barbara W. Tuchman, Bible and Sword (1956, 1968), chap.
10.
[3] Tuchman, op. cit. (1968 ed.), pp. xi, 197, 208.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chris S.
beliefs Gibson holds today were shaped by the views of his father?
Personally, I don't think Gibson is anti-semitic and of course don't
hold him accountable for his father's remarks, but this influence
shouldn't be discounted entirely.
R. Cohen
> Those are posted or financed by Jews, like the Nizkor project website. Very
> little value.
>
>
People can read what they want to read, the last time I checked.
People can believe you or they can decide to make up their own mind.
> "R. Cohen" <rlcc...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:a140b0ad.04031...@posting.google.com...
> > "daneldorado" <danel...@adelphia.net> wrote in message
> news:<s42dnb8Vt6-...@adelphia.com>...
> > > "George B." <bart...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > > news:748f6132.0403...@posting.google.com...
> > > > Better: He admits that he does not *believe* "in the Holocaust".
> > > > He does not have *Faith* in line with that cult:
> > > > http://www.vho.org/aaargh/engl/commentaries/goldberg.html
> > >
> > >
> > > May I ask this question, as honestly and as fairly as I can?
> > >
> > > WHERE is it officially documented, that the Holocaust actually took
> place?
> > > Where does it say that 6 million Jews were gassed by the Nazis? In what
> > > chronicle is all this data recorded?
> > >
> > > I'm not joking here, and I'm not anti-semitic. I'm simply curious to
> know
> > > the basis for these claims.
> > >
> > > Dan N.
> >
> > Do a google search on Holocaust documentation, that will get you started.
R. Cohen
> "daneldorado" <danel...@adelphia.net> wrote in message news:<s42dnb8Vt6-...@adelphia.com>...
> > "George B." <bart...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:748f6132.0403...@posting.google.com...
> > > Better: He admits that he does not *believe* "in the Holocaust".
> > > He does not have *Faith* in line with that cult:
> > > http://www.vho.org/aaargh/engl/commentaries/goldberg.html
> >
> >
> > May I ask this question, as honestly and as fairly as I can?
> >
> > WHERE is it officially documented, that the Holocaust actually took place?
> > Where does it say that 6 million Jews were gassed by the Nazis? In what
> > chronicle is all this data recorded?
> >
> > I'm not joking here, and I'm not anti-semitic. I'm simply curious to know
> > the basis for these claims.
> >
> > Dan N.
>
> That was the wrong question, Dan. (H)olocaust promoters can
> smother you with "official" estimates, opinions, court rulings, and
> survivor testimony. They have scads and scads of literature supporting
> the many (H)olocaust tales. What they lack in concrete or credible
> evidence they make up with incredible heaps of incredible crap. They
> have eyewitnesses waiting in the wings to recite heart-rending tales
> of cruelty and death, ready and willing to relentlessly accuse the
> German people of unspeakable atrocities at the drop of a coin. That's
> the (H)olocaust evidence.
>
That's right, the greatest hoax known to mankind.
>
> I warn you--don't question any of it--if you don't want to be
> thought of as (gasp!!) antisemitic.
You can take his word for it or you can read the so-called propaganda for yourself.
R. Cohen
The Nazi's were misunderstood.
Rob Duncan
"gilgames" <Gl...@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:PL64c.33128$PY.1...@newssvr26.news.prodigy.com...
> <<
Isnt it obvious?
Rob
Rob Duncan
Rob
<pope_about_town at Xyahoo.com (Johnny Asia)> wrote in message
news:405107e1...@news.mybizz.net...
LaszloK
/ LaszloK
"Szaki" <sza...@comcast.net> skrev i meddelandet
news:ub_3c.6111$Gm5.16209@attbi_s04...
> LaszloKukac, ha nem tudsz ertelmeset irni, akkor maradj csondben, a kurva
> budos zsido anyadban, ahonan kijottel.
> Ezt is beirhatod a statisztikatba, ha meg tudsz szamolni, te vak zsido
> cigany.
> Beszelni csak ugy tudsz, mint a lotyi Jozsi a faluvegen.
>
> JS
>
>
> "LaszloK" <las...@thotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:a7V3c.85749$dP1.2...@newsc.telia.net...
> >
> > "tim gueguen" <tgue...@shaw.ca> skrev i meddelandet
> > news:DiS3c.768137$ts4.531549@pd7tw3no...
> > >
> > > "Szaki" <sza...@comcast.net> wrote in message
> > > news:YDM3c.539557$na.1339508@attbi_s04...
> > > > We talking about the Holocau$t ( mass gasing) here, not shooting
> people
> > > with
> > > > guns.
> > > >
> > > Which was part of the Holocaust idiot. The Einsatzgruppen went out
and
> > shot
> > > all sorts of people, especially Jews. The death camps were created
> > because
> > > shooting people was too slow and was hard on the shooters.
> > >
> > > tim gueguen 101867
> > >
> > >
> >
> > You are talking to an analfabet, an idiot unable to
> > read or count. So you must write v e r y s l o w l y
> > t o t h i s g u y ! ! !
> > Don't use too difficult words, keep to some easy
> > "fuck you" and "dickhead" - he does not understand
> > any more complex expressions.
> >
> > / LaszloK
> >
> >
>
>
gilgames
How dare you speak the truth to the unwashed masses.
Rob
>>
How many "truth"-s are?
C.M.T.
"gilgames" <Gl...@netscape.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:5H44c.32871$PY....@newssvr26.news.prodigy.com...
> Hogy jott ez a szal az SCM-re? Csak nem uszitas esete fotog fenn?
>
Hát úgy, hogy két hüje fasz :
- szaki meg gilgames vonzza öket.
Minden esetre néhány emberrel több van a
világon akiknek a véleménye a magyarokról
negativ irányba alakúl.
Hüje rock docktor most üvöltsd, hajrá "magyarock".
George B.
support the official Holocaust line*.
Reminds me of the days when "all credible scientist" supported the
'fact' that witches can fly on broomsticks (or any other claim
relating to witchcraft). Questioning Witchcraft-claims could get you
on trial yourself.
I know at least two historians with postgraduate degrees (M, PhD)that
do not believe in the standard Holocaust story. However they would be
very careful to mention this in public (for obvious reasons).
Regards,
GB
>
> tim gueguen 101867
gilgames
gilgames
Who claims they are?
>>
The believers of the uniqueness of the Holocaust.
In the 20th Century 100 million people were killed out of hatred.
damnfine
> The Nazi's were misunderstood.
You don't use an apostrophe to pluralise, you ignorant fuck.
--
/^\damnfine/^\
"I'm a war president." - George W. Bush
George B.
> > Wrong, idiot, those were laber camps, jews holocau$t story makes it death
> > camps.
> > Jew fucker, like you.
> >
> I'm not Jewish, clueless. My religious background is Catholic.
### He didn't say that. the term "Jew f****r" implies that you f***
Jews not that Your are one. And, do you like Mel Gibsons movie?
>
> I'm starting to wonder if its time to find some webspace and post a personal
> faq....
### Good idea!
>
> tim gueguen 101867
George B.
> > Even if the defenders of the holocaust story were able to produce a
> document
> > proving that some Jews were gassed in World War Two,
>
> Even if one were to take such a silly statement at face value the Germans
> murdered plenty of Jews the good old fashioned way, by lining them up and
> shooting them. Just look up the term Einsatzgruppen.
"The so-called Einsatzgruppen of the Security Police and the SD
(Security Service) were among others the units in charge of combating
the partisans.[164] They started with not more than 4,000 men in
summer 1941, but at the end of 1942 up to 15,000 Germans and 240,000
natives were involved,[165] an increase of manpower which indicates
very well the parallel increase of partisan warfare at that time.
Considering their relatively unsuccessful efforts at curbing partisan
activity, we must note that these initially numerically weak troops
were obviously entirely overwhelmed by their task of policing the
enormous region (many hundred thousands of square kilometers), which
they were in charge of and whose more remote areas were increasingly
under the control of partisans.[166] Thus it appears a bit ridiculous
when H. Höhne states:[167]
"Heydrich's Death envoys started their cruel adventure: 3,000 men were
hunting Russia's five million Jews."
Höhne omits to say that at the same time these troops were fighting
against some 100,000 partisans. The allegations made against these
troops today - namely, that, aside from their hopeless battle against
the partisans, they also cooperated with many Wehrmacht soldiers to
kill several million Jews as part of the Final Solution - beg the
comment that, as Gerald Reitlinger says, this is absolutely
unbelievable;[168] further, we would agree with Hans-Heinrich Wilhelm
that the figures given in the various documents are probably entirely
unreliable.[169] This holds true for at least as long as no serious
efforts are made to locate the mass graves of the alleged victims, and
as long as the criticisms presented in this volume regarding the cases
of Babi Yar,[170] Marijampol[171] and the gas vans[172] are not
accorded any serious discussion.[173] "
http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/dth/fndSiegert.html#ftnref165
Many of the Partisans (and Politruks) were allegedly Jews.
"It would indeed be good if Jedwabne became a springboard for mutual
reconciliation in the spirit of the Polish bishops' 1965 appeal to
their German counterparts: "We forgive and ask for forgiveness." Both
Poles and Jews can produce a long list of grievances against each
other, and it's too bad a "hooray for our side mentality" continues to
dominate in the way those problems are addressed. We (here meaning
Poles and Jews) continue seeing a blade in the other side's eye and
not the beam in our own. Too bad some Polish historian wasn"t the one
to first expose the Jedwabne pogrom. To correct that Polish oversight,
perhaps some Jewish scholar will finally decide to research and
publicize the April 1944 massacre in Koniuchy where 300 Polish men,
women and children, the entire population of this tiny village near
Zamosc, were killed by a largely Jewish Soviet partisan unit for
daring to defend their property against repeated communist plunder.
Over the years, Pope John Paul II and other Polish churchmen,
Presidents Lech Wa__sa and Aleksander Kwa_niewski, plus other
high-ranking Polish government officials and leading intellectuals
have all beat their breasts and apologized to Jews for whatever harm
they may have suffered at the hands of Poles. There is no doubt that
an official apology for Jedwabne will also be forthcoming shortly. But
will Poles ever live to hear "przepraszamy" ("we're sorry") for the
pro-Soviet collaborators who betrayed Poland and welcomed the invading
Red Army in 1920 and again in 1939? For the Bermans, Rózanskis,
Fejgins, Romkowskis, Brytsygierowas, Minces, Borejszas and entire
teams of other Jewish Communists who had Polish freedom-fighters
jailed, tortured and killed after World War II, while Sovietizing
Poland's economy, suppressing its Catholic Church and atheizing its
education and culture. Will anyone ever express official regret over
the fact that two top Soviet leaders of Jewish nationality -- Molotov
and Kaganovich -- signed Stalin's Katyn death warrant which led to the
execution of 22,000 of Poland's best military officers, judges and
community leaders" ..."
http://www.iyp.org/polish/history/antypolonizmy/jedwabne_en_62.html
Further Reading - interview with Bogdan Musiał :
http://www.iyp.org/polish/history/antypolonizmy/jedwabne_en_5.html
The exterminationist "Einsatzgruppen"-argument is merely an attempte
to falsify Anti-Partisan measures (Partisan Warfare was illegal, while
reprisals were) into "genocide".
Regards
GB
R. Cohen
> > "George B." <bart...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:748f6132.0403...@posting.google.com...
> > > Better: He admits that he does not *believe* "in the Holocaust".
> > > He does not have *Faith* in line with that cult:
> > > http://www.vho.org/aaargh/engl/commentaries/goldberg.html
> >
> >
> > May I ask this question, as honestly and as fairly as I can?
> >
> > WHERE is it officially documented, that the Holocaust actually took place?
> > Where does it say that 6 million Jews were gassed by the Nazis? In what
> > chronicle is all this data recorded?
> >
> > I'm not joking here, and I'm not anti-semitic. I'm simply curious to know
> > the basis for these claims.
> >
> > Dan N.
>
> That was the wrong question, Dan. (H)olocaust promoters can
> smother you with "official" estimates, opinions, court rulings, and
> survivor testimony. They have scads and scads of literature supporting
> the many (H)olocaust tales. What they lack in concrete or credible
> evidence they make up with incredible heaps of incredible crap. They
> have eyewitnesses waiting in the wings to recite heart-rending tales
> of cruelty and death, ready and willing to relentlessly accuse the
> German people of unspeakable atrocities at the drop of a coin. That's
> the (H)olocaust evidence.
>
Here is the link to the United States Holocaust Memorial museum. A
leader in the "great hoax" coverup.
Here are a set of links from Brigham Young, well known "Great hoax"
organization
http://www.lib.byu.edu/~rdh/eurodocs/germ/1945holo.html
Here's a nice article about a trial around the "great hoax"
Johnny Asia
1/24/85
Rudolf Vrba, under cross-examination in a Canadian courtroom, states
under oath that 150,000 French Jews were gassed at Auschwitz, in spite
of the fact that the entire number of Jews deported from France were
only 75,721. Vrba claims he arrived at his count "scientifically" by
having listened to the language spoken by the inmates at Auschwitz and
examining their luggage (!). The author of "I Cannot Forgive" next
confessed that his book was "an artistic picture ... not a document
for a court," in spite of the fact that Vrba's testimony was crucial
to both the War Refugee Board and the Auschwitz Trials in West
Germany. Vrba further admitted that his written and pictorial
descriptions of Auschwitz crematoria were a result of guessing, based
on "what I heard it might look like."
1/17/85
Maria Bohuslawsky of the Toronto Sun reports on a cross-examination
that took place the day before, in which self-proclaimed Holocaust
"expert" and author Raul Hilberg admitted under oath that after 36
years of studying the Holocaust, 1) he knew of no documentary
(printed) evidence that the Nazis murdered or planned to murder Jews
in gas chambers, 2) he had identified large parts of the key
"confession" of Kurt Gerstein as to the "gassings" as "pure nonsense"
and "totally false," 3) when presenting the Gerstein "confession" as
proof of Nazi misdeeds he had edited out inconvenient sections in
order to make his point, 4) he knew of no autopsies that showed death
by gassing, 5) he billed himself as a Holocaust expert for 18 years
before even visiting Auschwitz (he then spent only one day there), 6)
he was not familiar with many books on the subject of which he was
alleged to be the expert, and 7) he knew of no scientific proof that
even one Jew had been gassed. (see also the article on the same date
by Kirk Makin in the Globe and Mail, and the Sault Star of 1/18/85.)
Understandably, when called upon to testify again in a later trial,
Hilberg begged off.
1/28/87
SS Gruppenfuehrer Gerhard Klopfer, who served as state secretary in
the Party Chancellery under Martin Bormann and was the last surviving
member of the Wannsee Conference (at which it was alleged that details
were worked out for the "final solution") dies in Heilbronn, West
Germany. Klopfer was charged with war crimes at Nuernberg, but the
case was dropped for lack of evidence, and in fact Klopfer was
permitted to resume practicing law in 1956. This lends credence to the
proposition that the Wannsee Conference had nothing to with with an
extermination program.
1/30/46
When the "confession" of Kurt Gerstein is offered as evidence at the
war crimes trials at Nuernberg, it is judged to be so obviously phony
that it is rejected, and not permitted to be read before the court.
In later trials, this same document is admitted as evidence by judges
and prosecutors desperate for anything that will help them hang their
virtually defenseless victims.
__________________
There are hundreds of similar news articles from around the world.
I'm sure the truth is somewhere in the middle, but the victors always
exagerate atrocities committed by the vanquished.
One thing I know for sure, Jewish victims are no more special than
any of the other countless victims of war.
Szaki
Ket hulye fasz, te meg LaszloK, fitymatlan atheista zsidok! Gilisztak, akik
kiarulnak mindent.
JS
"C.M.T." <320088...@t-online.de> wrote in message
news:c2s2qv$5bp$06$3...@news.t-online.com...
tur...@shaw.ca
>How many "truth"-s are?
mar mondtam neked
abszolut igazsag csak egy van
amugy meg annyi ahany ember
Mark
turan*@shaw.ca wrote:
...es ennek vagy annak a "valla'si" / politikai csoportnak
az "igazsa'ga" az abszolut. .................................:)
tur...@shaw.ca
>...es ennek vagy annak a "valla'si" / politikai csoportnak
>az "igazsa'ga" az abszolut. .................................:)
igen-igen
leginkabb a papistak jutnak a tajekozodott olvasonak az eszibe mint az
egyeduli igazsag birtokosai, a tevelygok elleniben
mink nem probaljuk az igazunkat masoknak begyurni
mert mint a szent konyv tanitja:
ne'ked a te vallasod, ne'kem pedig az enyim
Warchild
<pope_about_town at Xyahoo.com (Johnny Asia)> wrote in message
It is very easy to latch on to these reports and individual who had limited
personal insight into the program of mass extermination, as demonstrating
that the evidence of the Holocaust is faulty or incomplete.
You have to ignore the real, physical evidence, of course.
http://ddickerson.igc.org/holocaust.html
The Nazi's provide the best physical evidence supporting the historical
record, as they were nothing if not great record-keepers. They were quite
proud of their program of slave labor and extermination, and were condemned
with their own records.
R. Cohen
> I'm sure the truth is somewhere in the middle, but the victors always
> exagerate atrocities committed by the vanquished.
>
Exaggeration and total fabrication are two different things. Arguing
whether it was 3 million or 2 million people exterminated at a
particular camp is irrelevant.
The question is whether these camps existed and whether there were
plans by the germans to systematically destroy undesirables. Crimes
of this nature were not manufactured out of thin air separately all
over Europe. Why should there have been? The abuses of the nazi
regime in their conduct of the war alone were *more* then numerous for
many, many german leaders to be condemmed and imprisioned by the
victors. The fact that witnesses to these crimes exist both as
victims and german participants can't be ignored or disputed despite
the efforts by some groups to "explain" them away. More witnesses
always seem to appear. It is like a flood. *Maybe* it's because
these events really happened.
> One thing I know for sure, Jewish victims are no more special than
> any of the other countless victims of war.
I think Jews were singled out but it's clear that other ethnic groups
were also targeted by the nazis.
There is little doubt that millions of people including Jews were
slaughtered. Some estimates say that a similar number of non-jews
as jews were slaughtered by the Nazi's
That fact that Stalin slaughtered similar numbers in his own country
or that genocide is still being practiced proves what? That Stalin
was as much a barbarian as Hitler? Ok.
R. Cohen
> "R. Cohen" wrote:
> > The Nazi's were misunderstood.
>
> You don't use an apostrophe to pluralise, you ignorant fuck.
The fucking Nazis were misunderstood. *insert sarcasm here*
galax...@universe.net
>On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 12:53:05 -0800, Mark <mar...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>...es ennek vagy annak a "valla'si" / politikai csoportnak
>>az "igazsa'ga" az abszolut. .................................:)
>
>igen-igen
Hogyne-Hogyne
>leginkabb a papistak jutnak a tajekozodott olvasonak az eszibe mint az
>egyeduli igazsag birtokosai, a tevelygok elleniben
A tajekozott olvaso neha felnezz a tajekozott olvasasbol es az idiot
tubon uvoltozo tomegeket lat, es emberekrol hall akik noket kovezni
akarnak. -- Borzalmara mondjak neki hogy azok
az "iazsagukat" akatjak praktiszolni.
>mink nem probaljuk az igazunkat masoknak begyurni
>mert mint a szent konyv tanitja:
>ne'ked a te vallasod, ne'kem pedig az enyim
Hogyne, Hogyne - az koztudomasu a mai napokban.
tur...@shaw.ca
olvasd el meg 1x, most talan lassabban
erre irtam
galax...@universe.net
>
>erre irtam
>
>>>...es ennek vagy annak a "valla'si" / politikai csoportnak
>>>az "igazsa'ga" az abszolut. .................................:)
>
Hogyne-Hogyne
tur...@shaw.ca
>>
>>erre irtam
>>
>>>>...es ennek vagy annak a "valla'si" / politikai csoportnak
>>>>az "igazsa'ga" az abszolut. .................................:)
>>
>
>Hogyne-Hogyne
jol van papa, csak uljon a padon oszt nezgelodjon
gilgames
I think Jews were singled out but it's clear that other ethnic groups
were also targeted by the nazis.
>>
What about the 94 million victim exterminated nindependently from the
nazis. Do they count?
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal,
that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights,
that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
How do you think?
gilgames
a tajekozodott olvasonak
>>
"Az alsag togyen felnott" kimaradt az elejerol
galex...@universe.net
>jol van papa, csak uljon a padon oszt nezgelodjon
Ez imponal. Udvarias, majdnem gyenged vagy a csalad
tagjaiddal. -- De rossz helyre cimmezted. :)
tur...@shaw.ca
>"Az alsag togyen felnott" kimaradt az elejerol
mennyibol volt jobb a rakosi togye amin te nottel fel?
tim gueguen
Simple statement of fact.
> Reminds me of the days when "all credible scientist" supported the
> 'fact' that witches can fly on broomsticks (or any other claim
> relating to witchcraft). Questioning Witchcraft-claims could get you
> on trial yourself.
None of those people would be considered scientists, as they did not use the
scientific method.
> I know at least two historians with postgraduate degrees (M, PhD)that
> do not believe in the standard Holocaust story. However they would be
> very careful to mention this in public (for obvious reasons).
>
Yeah, because it would make them look like loonies.
Lets end this thread folks, but before we do lets apply Ockam's Razor to
this question. This concept states that when discussing two claims the
simplest one is the one most likely to be correct. So, on the one hand we
have the claim that Hitler, who was openly antisemitic and surrounded
himself with similar people, used the resources of Nazi Germany to
systematically murder those he hated the most, Jews, along with homosexuals,
Gypsies, and other "subhumans." On the other hand we have the claim that
the Nazis didn't do so, that all the evidence they did, be it documents,
photographs, or physical evidence, is faked, that every eyewitness,
especially those who admitted taking part in such activities(eg Eichmann),
is lying, that its all part of a gigantic plot that has been running since
the end of WW2, and that the only people to figure out this fact are a tiny
handful of malcontents, that everyone else, including professional
historians and other academics, is a stupid dupe who has fallen for "The
Hoax of the Century."
tim gueguen 101867
Morghus
The truth about the (H)olocaust is nowhere near the middle of all
that garbage. Census data establishes that less than 3 millions Jews
were even within the reach of the Germans before and during the war.
Yet, there were 3.4 million Jews who claimed to be survivors of the
"death camps" when the war was over. The Jews weren't killed, and
except for natural causes, the Jews didn't die in the war. Germany has
already paid billions to Jewish survivors. The truth is there was no
(H)olocaust.
Rob Duncan
"gilgames" <Gl...@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:8Sf4c.33399$PY....@newssvr26.news.prodigy.com...
> <<
> How dare you speak the truth to the unwashed masses.
>
>
> Rob
> >>
>
> How many "truth"-s are?
Objectively? One. Subjectively... oh, a little over six-billion.
Rob
gilgames
mennyibol volt jobb a rakosi togye amin te nottel fel?
>>
Az en idomben meg a csalad nevelt nem az alsag altal boditott iskolatarsak.
Morghus
> mor...@MailAndNews.com (Morghus) wrote in message news:<73fedc95.04031...@posting.google.com>...
> >
> > smother you with "official" estimates, opinions, court rulings, and
> > survivor testimony. They have scads and scads of literature supporting
> > the many (H)olocaust tales. What they lack in concrete or credible
> > evidence they make up with incredible heaps of incredible crap. They
> > have eyewitnesses waiting in the wings to recite heart-rending tales
> > of cruelty and death, ready and willing to relentlessly accuse the
> > German people of unspeakable atrocities at the drop of a coin. That's
> > the (H)olocaust evidence.
> >
>
> Here is the link to the United States Holocaust Memorial museum. A
> leader in the "great hoax" coverup.
>
> http://www.ushmm.org/
>
An excellent example. There it is, folks, a museum to the
(H)olocaust; right there in the Mall in Washington D.C., right there
along with all the great American icons, Washington, Jefferson, and
Lincoln. The (H)olocaust is now an integral part of Americana,
something your children can learn about and mull over when they
discuss the great history of America. Something the teachers can
drill into the receptive minds of American students. And it's all a
monstrous lie.
tur...@shaw.ca
>A tajekozott olvaso neha felnezz a tajekozott olvasasbol es az idiot
>tubon uvoltozo tomegeket lat, es emberekrol hall akik noket kovezni
>akarnak. -- Borzalmara mondjak neki hogy azok
>az "iazsagukat" akatjak praktiszolni.
On Islamic Authority and Rajim
By Michael O'Neill, Editor-in-Chief
Asiaweek, December 4, 1981
[public domain]
.The most controversial specific instance of misdirected
"Islamisation"
concerns rajim, the punishment of stoning to death for illicit sexual
intercourse.
As part of his Islamisation program, Zia, by President's Order 3 of
1979, amended the Constitution to set up Shariat, or religious,
benches
in Pakistan's four provincial high courts. Designated justices were
both
high court judges and members of the Shariat benches until March 1981,
when the functions were separated. There is now a federal Shariat
court,
the provincial versions having been abolished.
Six months ago the Shariat court ruled that the government's 1979 law
of
rajim - stoning to death for offences such as adultery - was not
Quranic
law and was therefore unIslamic. The Zia Administration is appealing
that verdict on the ground that the judges, as the President told
Asiaweek, "didn't do their homework." Zia, in short, believes that the
punishment is Islamic. It is a confusion that in recent months has
exercised Muslim minds from West Asia to Southeast Asia, and to get to
the bottom of it, Asiaweek's O'Neill last week visited Parwez, 78, in
his book-lined study in Lahore. This is what Chaudhri Ghulam Ahmad
Parwez said:
"The first thing to know, when you call a thing Islamic, is: What is
the
authority for it? When we say 'This is constitutional,' there is an
authority for it - the Constitution. It presupposes the existence of a
constitution that forms an authority to say what is constitutional and
what is not."
"There must be a common authority for all Muslims. When they call
themselves Muslims it means they accept Islam, and if there is one
common authority for Islam, then that must be the common authority by
which all Muslims decide whether something is Islamic or not - whether
it is the law of rajim or some other laws or rules of the state.
"Islam is not a religion. It is a code of life, a system of living.
Islam is about the nation of the community: It presupposes the
existence
of a state.
"What is the authority? It may be the Shariat court, it may be the
President of Pakistan, it may be a common man. If we define that, half
the problem is solved. If there is one common authority, it does not
matter what the Shariat court says is Islamic, or what I say is
Islamic.
Have you asked this question of the President?
"Thinking based on common sense is very near the Islamic laws. The
authority is the Quran. It is the only authority: immutable. When one
accepts that, one becomes a Muslim, and one remains a Muslim for as
long
as one accepts it. It is not a question of this view or that view.
"Even in secular laws, when we say something is 'legal' we mean 'It is
according to this or that law.' That law must exist. It presupposes
the
existence of some law which is acceptable to all the parties. So when
we
talk about Islam - whether in India or Singapore or Pakistan, whether
it
is an ordinary Muslim or a head of state or a 'divine mullah' - we
must
say: 'This is the authority.' And the only authority for being Islamic
is the Quran.
"It is a perfect authority. No addition or subtraction can be made
because, according to the Quran, Allah said it is complete. Nothing
against it can constitute an authority for being Islamic. What is not
there is not Islam. The Quran says that even the Prophet had not the
authority to make any change; the Prophet himself says in the Quran,
'I
am not authorized to make any changes.'
"Some people accept authorities other than the Quran. They accept the
Traditions of the Prophet, which I call history. Then there is fiqa
[jurisprudence]. Some jurists, about 1,000 years back, constituted
certain laws. They are man-made laws, and the state enforced them at
that time as the laws of government. They are not Quranic. Whatever in
those laws is according to the Quran we can accept as Islamic because
they are according to the Quran. If a non-Muslim state makes a law
which
is according to the Quran, we will say, 'That law is according to the
Quran.' If a Muslim state makes a law which is against the Quran, we
will not accept it as Islamic.
"No state in the world accepts the Quran as the final and only
authority: they all accept these jurists' laws, fiqa, or the
Traditions
attributed to the Holy Prophet - history! Yet it is possible to have
an
Islamic state. The Quran is there. Unchanged, immutable, in the same
form in which, according to our belief, it was revealed by God, given
by
the Prophet to the people. Not a single comma therein has been
changed.
"The Quran has definitely given the punishment for zinnah [illegal
sexual intercourse]: only stripes [lashes]. It is clearly given. Rajim
is not Quranic.
"When the government enforced this law of rajim, it did not say there
was any secularism in it. It says secularism is against Islam. For
everything, they say 'It is Islamic.'
"Since the majority of people in Pakistan accept these laws [fiqa] as
Islamic, the government says they should be accepted as Islamic. The
court has said it is not a question of majority or minority. Even if
one
Muslim proves this is against the Quran, it becomes against the Quran.
Those who challenged this law in the Shariat court have proved it is
against the Quran. That is why the law must be repealed.
"A state can be called Islamic only if it acts according to the Quran.
If some higher court says that laws accepted by the majority of the
people in this country are Islamic laws, then does this law
promulgated
by the government become Islamic? If the appeal is successful it will
become the law of the land. But it will not be an Islamic law."
Nobody has yet been stoned to death in Pakistan, though there have
been
floggings aplenty, and President Zia hints that it will never come to
that. But as the ageing, ailing Parwez points out, "That is strange,
because if this is an Islamic state and these are Islamic laws, they
must be enforced - whatever the consequences."
. A quotation by Hazrat Ali, the Fourth Caliph, son-in-law of the Holy
Prophet, it said:
An unIslamic government may last awhile, but tyranny cannot
endure.
Mark
tur...@shaw.ca
>Nem ertem. Hogy jon ez ide?
soxor szobahozod, asszem egyik kedvenc temad
olyasmi nalad mint mikor az oroszok mondtak,
hogy amerikaban verik a negereket
gilgames
"Islam is not a religion. It is a code of life, a system of living.
>>
This is true for all religions, including the Holocaust religion, so whu
is it not religion?
gilgames
olyasmi nalad mint mikor az oroszok mondtak,
hogy amerikaban verik a negereket
>>
Es bizony igazuk volt. Az oroszok altalaban artatlan fehereket vertek az
az amerikaiak buncselekmenneyl vadolt negereket. Az allamhatalom mar
csak ilyen, nem az a rendeltetese hogy emberseges legyen
R. Cohen
> <<
> I think Jews were singled out but it's clear that other ethnic groups
> were also targeted by the nazis.
> >>
>
> What about the 94 million victim exterminated nindependently from the
> nazis. Do they count?
>
It doesn't change what happened in the extermination camps
R. Cohen
>
> that garbage. Census data establishes that less than 3 millions Jews
> were even within the reach of the Germans before and during the war.
> Yet, there were 3.4 million Jews who claimed to be survivors of the
> "death camps" when the war was over. The Jews weren't killed, and
> except for natural causes, the Jews didn't die in the war. Germany has
> already paid billions to Jewish survivors. The truth is there was no
> (H)olocaust.
All your rantings and ravings aren't going to change the truth and what happened.
gilgames
gilgames
It doesn't change what happened in the extermination camps
>>
You mean the Gulags?
George B.
> > __________________
> >
> >
> > There are hundreds of similar news articles from around the world.
> >
> > I'm sure the truth is somewhere in the middle, but the victors always
> > exagerate atrocities committed by the vanquished.
for exaggerations: To increase the middle/value...
> >
> > One thing I know for sure, Jewish victims are no more special than
> > any of the other countless victims of war.
### Correct. But this counts as 'relativation'.
>
>
> It is very easy to latch on to these reports and individual who had limited
> personal insight into the program of mass extermination, as demonstrating
> that the evidence of the Holocaust is faulty or incomplete.
### But how does one explain clear carnard and nonsense inside such
'witness statements'?!
>
> You have to ignore the real, physical evidence, of course.
### ...Which does not support the extermination thesis at all.
http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/trr/
http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/dth/
If there was "real, physical evidence" for homicidal gassings why was
that never presented in any court-case against 'war-criminals' for
verification?
Your thesis is further rebuked by the fact of all the facilities in
the camps to _help_ the prisoners.
http://www.ety.com/HRP/pol/auschwitzauction.htm
Should we go into more detail on this? I can also support most of this
with exterminationist sources, if you want.
You see the "real, physical evidence" contradicts the extermination
claims!
>
> http://ddickerson.igc.org/holocaust.html
>
> The Nazi's provide the best physical evidence supporting the historical
> record, as they were nothing if not great record-keepers. They were quite
> proud of their program of slave labor and extermination, and were condemned
> with their own records.
### How often must we repeat it: The records indicate no evidence of
homicidal gassings at all! The concentration camp records show s.th.
like 350.000 people died their mostly of diseases like typhus.
There is no mentioning of extermination/gassing what so ever on the
radio-messages what so ever...:
http://www.fpp.co.uk/Auschwitz/docs/PoliceDecodes.html
To belive in the (Standard)-Holocaust is believing in a conspiracy
*theory*, were the Germans managed to let every evidence vanish into
thin air...
Johnny Asia
>[... "Witness accounts"]
>> > __________________
>> >
>> >
>> > There are hundreds of similar news articles from around the world.
>> >
>> > I'm sure the truth is somewhere in the middle, but the victors always
>> > exagerate atrocities committed by the vanquished.
>### we can be sure its not "in the middle" - guess this is the reasons
>for exaggerations: To increase the middle/value...
>
>> >
The horror stories sure came in handy to gain sympathy for the
Jews and support for the founding of a modern state of Israel.
The British had planned that 100 years before WW II
BRITISH LITERALIST FOREIGN POLICY
The British Literalists--strong among the Anglican Evangelicals and in
various Nonconformist churches--were not about to abandon their hopes
of converting Jews and sending them to Palestine to meet their
Messiah, especially not around 1840, when the current British policy
of offering protection to Jews living in Palestine raised great
expectations among the the premillennialists. Indeed, Literalist
influence was unofficially helping to shape that policy. An ardent
Literalist, Lord Ashley (later the Earl of Shaftesbury), was stepson-
in-law and confidant of Lord Palmerston, the British foreign
secretary. Ashley had private hopes of bringing about, through British
action, the restoration of Israel to Palestine in preparation for the
Second Advent. In 1840 he prodded Palmerston, by adducing political
reasons, into seeking international backing for Jewish migration to
Palestine, while he confided to his diary his own very different
motives, which were distinctly religious:
Dined with Palmerston. After dinner left alone with him. Propounded my
scheme, which seemed to strike his fancy . . . . Palmerston has
already been chosen by God to be an instrument of good to His ancient
people; to do homage, as it were, to their inheritance, and to
recognise their rights without believing their destiny . . . . I am
forced to argue politically, financially, commercially; these
considerations strike him home; he weeps not like his Master over
Jerusalem, nor prays that now, at last, she may put on her beautiful
garments.[1]
Ashley's influence was likewise behind the establishment of a
consulate in Jerusalem in 1838, also the creating of an Anglican
bishopric there in 1841 and the appointment to it of a Jewish
Christian bishop. On October 16, 1841, he wrote in his diary: "Where
would the Sultan's permission [to build the bishop's church] have been
without Palmerston's vigour in consequence of my repeated and earnest
representations?"[2]
But Ashley's dream of a British-sponsored and treaty-protected Jewish
migration to Palestine did not materialize. The four-power treaty of
1840 ignored the matter. Even the Jews themselves showed little
interest; more than half a century passed before Zionism arose.
[p. 4] Nevertheless, 20th-century British policy in the Middle East
owed something to the prophetic interpretation of the Literalists of
the 1830s and 1840s.
As one recent writer has put it:
Lord Shaftesbury's adventure marks the point when events began leading
logically toward the [Palestine] Mandate. . . .
Palmerston['s Middle Eastern policies] mark the beginning of official
British intervention on behalf of the "Jewish nation" and of its
resettlement in Palestine. . . .
Ashley had not labored in vain. . . . All these events centering in
the Holy Land [including "the visionary prospects aroused by the
Evangelical craze for conversion of the Jews and the Jerusalem
bishopric"] combined to create almost a proprietary feeling about
Palestine. The idea of a British annex there through the medium of a
British-sponsored restoration of Israel began to appeal to other minds
than Ashley's.[3]
[1] Anthony Ashley, Earl of Shaftesbury, Diary entries, quoted in
Edwin Hodder, The Life and Work of the Seventh Earl of Shaftesbury,
vol. 1, pp. 310, 311. Ashley was the one referred to, but not named
(in London Times, Aug. 17, 1840, p. 3, col. 5), as the promoter of
western-sponsored Jewish migration to Palestine.
[2] Hodder, op. cit., vol. 1, p. 377 (cf. pp. 370, 374). See also
Harold Temperley, England and the Near East: The Crimea (1936), p.
443, note 275; Barbara W. Tuchman, Bible and Sword (1956, 1968), chap.
10.
[3] Tuchman, op. cit. (1968 ed.), pp. xi, 197, 208.
+
"The power of accurate observation is called cynicism
by those who have not got it." - G. B. Shaw
The First Church of Common Sense
Want to know what's REALLY going on in Iraq?
http://www.angelfire.com/co/COMMONSENSE/wakeup.html
Cowboys and Idiots: The Reagan Administration
Ronnies' "Brave freedom fighters" are now Bushs'
"evildoers" who "hate our freedoms".
http://www.angelfire.com/co/COMMONSENSE/reagan.html
The Rise and Fall of the Holy Roller Empire
The God-Awful Truth about Christian Zionism
http://www.angelfire.com/co/COMMONSENSE/armageddon.html