Freedom and A Christian's view about wars and the one in Afghanistan which has been occupied by the Christian nation of America for more than 8 years and with no end of it (as well as the country's occupation) in sight Re: NATO confirms identity of Taliban hostage
lo yeeOn
rst0wxyz <rst0...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>On Dec 25, 12:42�pm, ltlee1 <ltl...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> http://www.rnw.nl/english/article/nato-confirms-identity-taliban-hostage
>>
>> --------------------------
>> NATO confirms identity of Taliban hostage
>> Published on 25 December 2009 - 8:38pm
>>
>> The 24-year-old soldier was seized in Paktika province, close to the
>> Afghan-Pakistani border, by Taliban forces in June.
>>
>> In the video, Private Bergdahl appears wearing sunglasses and a US
>> military uniform including a helmet. It is not clear when the video
>> was made. Private Bergdahl, who says he is a prisoner of war of the
>> Taliban, attacks the US treatment of Muslims in Iraq and Afghanistan
>> and tells military leaders that they cannot win. He calls on the
>> American people to stand up and stop the war, warning that it will
>> turn into a second Vietnam.
>>
>> A US military spokesperson condemned the video as propaganda and said
>> statements made in it should be considered as coerced. He added that
>> the decision to release it on christmas day was "cruel".
>>
>> This is the second Taliban video showing the kidnapped soldier. The
>> first video was released shortly after he was seized.
>>
>> ---------------------------
>>
>> The video had not been released to the pubic. But the above link shows
>> two pictures of hte hostage.
>
>The poor, poor guy!!! I hope he will come home alive and well.
Well, with due respect to you, I do not see Private Bergdahl as a
"poor, poor guy". He looks healthy in the video, apparently some
months after his capture by the Taliban. (Fox News had an analyst
calling him a liar if not worse.) And he apparently has been pretty
safe, away from dangerous missions as well as avoiding the barbarous
acts of killing innocent civilians. He's been away from all that.
And if he's sincere about what he said in the video (according to the
news report from BBC that I've read), then being away from the danger
personally and the killings of others for a mission he doesn't believe
in is actually a good thing.
Afterall, a grown man's fate is about the choices he makes and the
courses of action that ensue (for himself physically and spiritually).
Hopefully, his choices have been leading or will lead to a better
world for himself, his loved ones, and other people, as opposed to one
which occurs to those who would just blindly obey orders and kill and
kill and one day be killed or badly injured.
Christmas time is about the tidings of peace and joy to the world.
If Private Bergdahl is in good health and kept safe away from the
killing field, then maybe he's in a good state, albeit that some Fox
News analysts have nearly called for his court-martial for desertion.
We don't know if he deserted. But if he deserted because he didn't
believe in this war, he was doing at least what was right for him.
And he'd be better off where he is away from harm's way. There are
quite a few soldiers who do not believe in this war but have more or
less continued to obey military orders to be killed and to risk being
killed or badly maimed eventually. If they can all act according to
their conscience, the world would be a better place about which I am
sure.
According to BBC News:
US Navy Rear Adm Gregory Smith said in a statement: "It reflects
nothing more than the violent, deceitful tactics of the Taliban
insurgency.
"To release this video on Christmas Day is an affront to the deeply
concerned family and friends of Bowe Bergdahl."
Now, we can ask ourselves whether what the Pentagon spokesman has said
about this latest incident is a case of:
a pot calling a kettle black?
Despite the Christmas songs of joy and peace heard all over America
today and the days leading up to it, the holiest day of the year for
every Christian in the world and despite the nonviolent teaching of
Jesus Christ, there is no pause in the fighting in Afghanistan and
Pakistan, where the immoral killing robots commonly referred to as
drones continue to shoot missiles at population centers and killing
dozens of people each time. And that's not violent?
And to expand the war in Afghanistan and further push it into Pakistan
after more than eight years of occupation of the country while calling
it simply an act of self defense for America, land which is thousands
of miles away, is not deceitful?
So why does the noble US government engage in this kind of deception
and hypocrisy in characterizing the Taliban video on Christmas eve?
And while we're condemning many countries for blacking out news, our
government has been telling news organizations to withhold its release
on ground of not "giving comfort to our enemy". It so happens that
the video has much of what the apparently healthy Private Bergdahl has
to say about this war that the US government doesn't want the American
(or the British) people to know.
According to the little revealed by the BBC News:
"This is just going to be the next Vietnam unless the American people
stand up and stop all this nonsense," he says.
He adds: "You are not fighting a small group of terrorist guerrilla
fighters. "You are fighting an organised guerrilla army that has
perfected guerrilla warfare better than any country has ever
perfected it in history."
I would like to know the rest (of what he said).
Now, one may argue that what does he know? (How does he know that
it's gonna be another Vietnam?) Granted, I agree that it's just his
personal assessment/opinion, just like that of Colonel Matthew Hoh's
or President Obama's. I would not however concede that Obama knows
more merely for being the one American who gets daily presidential
intelligence briefings. I would not because it is well known that our
government fixes intelligence to fit a policy, the famous truth coming
out of Number 10 Downing Street regarding the fully discredited Bush
deception about why we had to invade Iraq. And the grunt who has been
in the eastern front fighting an endless war ought to know something
that Obama doesn't know. And certainly, the widely respected Hoh
certainly knows a great deal more about the futility of war than any
of the generals whose opinions Obama sought because Hoh was there and
he has seen the worst in Iraq also.
So why is our country so afraid of letting the American people hear
what Private Bergdahl has to say?
Why can't the listeners or viewers of the entire video decide for
themselves what the truth is. They can often tell from the demeanor
of the speaker about his state of mind. And above all, they should
all be entitled to hear what he has to say, especially when he is in
good health as he speaks.
After all, what the Taliban is doing is to hope for an exchange of
some of their own being held by NATO forces. So, how evil can that
desire be?
A statement read by a Taliban spokesman, Zabihullah Mujahid, appears
at the end of the video and renews demands for a "limited number of
prisoners" to be exchanged for Pte Bergdahl.
What we're seeing here is we're fighting a dirty war in Afghanistan
our government is too afraid to let the people know what actually is
going on! We claim we're fighting for our freedom and even that of
the rest of the world; but we the citizens are kept from knowing what
one of our soldiers has to say. In fact, we the citizens have been
kept from knowing what our soldiers have to say because strict
military code forbids them from expressing their opinions about the
war while in active duties.
If anything, I'm glad that Private Bergdahl is in good health and
stashed away from harm's way as well as being able to tell us what he
thinks about this war that we wouldn't otherwise be privileged to find
out.
And finally, it must be pointed out that comparing with the poor
Muslims from various geographic regions that we captured in
Afghanistan, including several from XinJiang who were detained in
hellish conditions at the Guantanmo cage prison for nearly eight years
without even an indictment and then finally released for having done
nothing wrong except for being at the wrong place and linked to the
wrong religion, our Bergdahl has really been treated well by his
Afghan insurgent captors.
Peace on earth and Christ's teaching among all people!
lo yeeOn
========
1) [Matthew] Hoh resigned in a four page letter questioning why the
war was being fought and "to what end".[1] He asserted that the US
presence is simply fueling the resistance movement there, providing
a convenient villain for the 35 year old cottage industry of
warfare.
He stated that:
I fail to see the value or the worth in continued US casualties or
expenditures of resources in support of the Afghan government in
what is, truly, a 35-year-old civil war...I have lost
understanding of and confidence in the strategic purposes of the
United States' presence in Afghanistan...I have doubts and
reservations about our current strategy and planned future
strategy, but my resignation is based not upon how we are pursuing
this war, but why and to what end. b Matthew Hoh, resignation
letter
(Wikipedia page on Colonel Matthew Hoh)
2) An excerpt from "Saving Private Bergdahl" By DAVE LINDORFF
http://www.counterpunch.org/lindorff07212009.html
I sure know that if my son were ever so unfortunate as to be suckered
into joining the US military and was then dispatched to fight and
kill people in some far-off land where the US had no reason to be in
the first place, and if he were to be captured, I would want to know
that my own country had been living up to the letter of the law in
respecting every clause of the Geneva Convention regarding the
treatment of captives.
The sad truth, however, is that neither the Bush/Cheney
administration, which simply tossed out the Geneva Conventions in
2001 and said its provisions, despite being signed into law by the
US, did not apply to the war in Afghanistan, which was the first
assault in what they conceived as a borderless and endless War on
Terror, nor the Obama administration, which has refused to grant full
Geneva Convention rights to the captives it holds in places like
Afghanistanbwe'res Bagram Air Base, or at Guantanamo Bay, or to
prosecute those who tortured and ordered torture in the prior
administration, has followed the law.
There are plenty of Americans, both in Congress, and among the US
population at large, who have lustily approved of the torture of
suspected fighters captured by American forces. All kinds of excuses
have been trotted out for this willful violation of US and
international law. The Taliban was not a legitimate government, they
argue, so their fighters are not really soldiers. Al Qaeda is not a
country, so its fighters are not really even enemy combatants, they
say. Some go so far as to simply say, "These people are killers, so
we America is justified in doing what it wants to them."They'll also
trot out the excuse of expediency: we were attacked, and if it takes
torture (or "enhanced interrogation techniques" to use a popular
euphemism for such exquisite tortures as head banging or
water-boarding), to find out what they're planning, then that's
okay."
lo yeeOn
which occurs to those who just blindly obey orders and kill and kill
According to BBC News:
on grounds of not "giving comfort to our enemy". It so happens that
themselves what the truth is? They can often tell from the demeanor
of the speaker about his state of mind. And above all, they should
all be entitled to hear what he has to say, especially when he is in
good health as he speaks.
After all, what the Taliban is doing is to hope for an exchange of
some of their own being held by NATO forces. So, how evil can that
desire be?
A statement read by a Taliban spokesman, Zabihullah Mujahid, appears
at the end of the video and renews demands for a "limited number of
prisoners" to be exchanged for Pte Bergdahl.
What we're seeing here is we're fighting a dirty war in Afghanistan
our government is too afraid to let the people know what actually is
going on! We claim we're fighting for our freedom and even that of
the rest of the world; but we the citizens are kept from knowing what
one of our soldiers has to say. In fact, we the citizens have been
kept from knowing what our soldiers have to say because strict
military code forbids them from expressing their opinions about the
war while on active duty.
lo yeeOn
Sanders Kaufman <nor...@kaufman.net> wrote:
>"rst0wxyz" <rst0...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:173cbad1-d36e-4e63...@z3g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
>> On Dec 26, 12:48 am, "Sanders Kaufman" <bu...@kaufman.net> wrote:
>
>>> > The video had not been released to the pubic. But the above link shows
>>> > two pictures of hte hostage.
>>>
>>> In fact, it's all over the web - just not on US sites.
>>
>> You mean even the U.S., like China, is blocking internet sites the
>> government doesn't want its citizens to see?
>
>No, the sites are not blocked.
>The press release put out by the US that says the video is not being
>released is false.
>That's just the government's way of saying that they themselves are not
>releasing it.
Blocked or not blocked, I'm yet to see the uncut video). The BBC News
provided a little bit of the original. Most major US media sources do
not provide any of the video at all. At the same time, the Pentagon
spokesman (US Navy Rear Adm Gregory Smith) said in a statement: "It
reflects nothing more than the violent, deceitful tactics of the
Taliban insurgency." I beg his pardon, I do not get any sense at all
from the printed report that there was anything violent about Private
Bergdahl's situation. And it's not even clear to me that there is
deception in the video in the sense that the soldier was coerced into
saying what he said, which is loud and clear criticism of the war in
Afghanistan and America's militaristic foreign policy in general.
When I say this, I'm basing my judgment on the bit of the video we as
public have been allowed to see and the following report:
"According to the BBC, Bergdahl, 23, "looks healthy and speaks calmly
and clearly, and does not appear to be under duress.""
(For more please see below).
Furthermore, the soldier himself said in the video that he was treated
with "dignity" (in captivity)
So, it really begs the question of what the US government, with which
the mainstream media have volunteered to cooperate and keep this video
as hidden as possible, wishes for the American people, as far as their
need to be informed (in order to be truly a free people) is concerned.
One source I have found in print has this to say:
The most recent video shows a man wearing sunglasses and a United
States military-type uniform and helmet.
According to the BBC, Bergdahl, 23, "looks healthy and speaks calmly
and clearly, and does not appear to be under duress."
In the video, the man identifies himself as Bergdahl and gives
personal details such as his rank, deployment information, his birth
date, and place of birth.
"This is just going to be the next Vietnam unless the American people
stand up and stop all this nonsense," says the man believed to be
Bergdahl.
He also speaks of his treatment while in captivity, saying "I was
continuously treated as a human being with dignity. I had nobody
deprive me of my clothes and take pictures of me naked. I had no dogs
barking at me and biting me, as my country has done to Muslim
prisoners in the jails that I mentioned."
According to the Washington Post, in the video Bergdahl also states
that U.S. officials have led the country into ". . . the same holes
that America keeps falling into over and over and over again, be it
Vietnam, Japan, Germany, Somalia, Lebanon, Iraq. And now it's
Afghanistan. It's the next hole for us to fall into . . .".
Idaho National Guard spokesperson, Lt. Col. Tim Marsano, said ". . .
Bergdahl's family is very hopeful that the message will be a positive
one, as far as their son' health and well-being are concerned".
Bergdahl's whereabouts are still unknown; however, authorities
believe he is in either Pakistan or Afghanistan.
It's telling that his family, i.e., the people who really care about
him, have found this video a "positive" message "as far as their son'
health and well-being are concerned".
lo yeeOn
========
Friday December 25, 2009, 3:11 pm
By The BBC
December 25, 2009 "BBC" -- The man in the film, identifying himself as
Private Bowe Robert Bergdahl, criticises the US over the Afghan war
and relations with Muslims.
A Taliban spokesman then calls for the release of captured insurgents
in exchange for the 23-year-old.
His parents, Bob and Jani Bergdahl, responded by appealing for his
release.
The Western military alliance Nato confirmed that the man in the video
- seen wearing sunglasses, a military helmet and uniform - was Pte
Bergdahl.
It said he had clearly been forced to read a prepared statement. It is
not clear when the video, released on Friday, was recorded.
The airborne infantryman, originally from the US state of Idaho, spoke
clearly and appeared healthy.
He was captured in Paktika province, a Taliban stronghold in eastern
Afghanistan, on 30 June.
US Navy Rear Adm Gregory Smith said in a statement: "It reflects
nothing more than the violent, deceitful tactics of the Taliban
insurgency.
"To release this video on Christmas Day is an affront to the deeply
concerned family and friends of Bowe Bergdahl."
The Bergdahl family later issued a statement through the Idaho
National Guard, urging the captors "to let our only son come home".
And to Pte Bergdahl, the family said: "We love you and we believe in
you. Stay strong."
'Next Vietnam'
In the video, Pte Bergdahl gives his rank, date and place of birth,
and deployment details.
"This is just going to be the next Vietnam unless the American people
stand up and stop all this nonsense," he says.
He adds: "You are not fighting a small group of terrorist guerrilla
fighters.
"You are fighting an organised guerrilla army that has perfected
guerrilla warfare better than any country has ever perfected it in
history."
A statement read by a Taliban spokesman, Zabihullah Mujahid, appears
at the end of the video and renews demands for a "limited number of
prisoners" to be exchanged for Pte Bergdahl.
The insurgents also released a video of the American a few weeks after
he was captured.
The Pentagon has said Pte Bergdahl was serving with an Alaska-based
infantry regiment in Paktika province.
He vanished from his base, near the border with Pakistan, just five
months after arriving in Afghanistan.
The military has been trying to locate him ever since, and a reward
has been offered for his safe return.
He is believed to be the first soldier seized in either Iraq or
Afghanistan for at least two years.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A comment {by a reader} from the site:
. . . Maybe Private Bergdahl made his statement under duress but it
cannot be denied that there is a very large element of truth in it:
Private Bergdahl is telling us the truth. Afghanistan will be our next
Viet Nam unless we stop our government...
Our government has been attacking sovereign nations every two years
(or less) since the end of World War II...(?)...
We have not been doing this to bring them democracy (we don't have
that ourselves) or to get the weapons of mass destruction (we
manufacture them ourselves and give or sell them all over the world)
or to protect the rights of women (check how a woman's right to
control her own body has been treated by the Senate just
yesterday)--no, all these wars are for the profits of our military
industrial complex and the power of our corporations over all life on
earth.
Private Berghahl is telling us to make our government stop these acts
of terrorism. He speaks against our use of torture.
We must change the course of our government and that means to end the
term of office of all our elected officials who voted to approve these
endless and lawless wars...
Check the voting record of your Senator and Congressional
Representative. If they voted for the war, don't give them your vote
again.
wantrealdemocracy | 12.25.09 - 1:57 pm | # (and me)
lo yeeOn
Daniel <sabot...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>On Dec 26, 3:21�am, acous...@panix.com (lo yeeOn) wrote:
>> In article
><d22326dc-148d-44c1-b2d5-4e409b971...@g22g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
Well, that is conceivable but, in my view, highly unlikely. And
there's no evidence from this latest video release that there is a
hint of this happening. So, let's get off the hysteria and take a
look at what is really in the video message.
To summarize: 1) the Taliban wants to trade him for a number of their
own being currently held by the NATO forces; 2) Pte. Bergdahl, by all
account, looks healthy (apparently months after he was captured); and
3) speaks calmly and without duress during his lengthy criticism of
our government's decades of failed and violent policy toward other
countries and of the current war in Afghanistan.
In particular, Pte. Bergdahl has this to say:
"This is just going to be the next Vietnam unless the American people
stand up and stop all this nonsense,"
He also speaks of his treatment while in captivity, saying "I was
continuously treated as a human being with dignity. I had nobody
deprive me of my clothes and take pictures of me naked. I had no dogs
barking at me and biting me, as my country has done to Muslim
prisoners in the jails that I mentioned."
To this the media response is not to provide any of the video at all.
At the same time, the Pentagon spokesman (US Navy Rear Adm Gregory
Smith) said in a statement: "It reflects nothing more than the
violent, deceitful tactics of the Taliban insurgency."
I beg his pardon, I do not get any sense at all from the printed
report that there was anything violent about Private Bergdahl's
situation. And it's not even clear to me that there is deception in
the video in the sense that the soldier was coerced into saying what
he said, which is loud and clear criticism of the war in Afghanistan
and America's militaristic foreign policy in general. When I say
this, I'm basing my judgment on the bit of the video we as public have
been allowed to see and the following report:
"According to the BBC, Bergdahl, 23, "looks healthy and speaks calmly
and clearly, and does not appear to be under duress.""
Furthermore, the soldier himself said in the video that he was treated
with "dignity" (in captivity)
So, it really begs the question of what the US government, with which
the mainstream media have volunteered to cooperate and keep this video
as hidden as possible, wishes for the American people, as far as their
need to be informed (in order to be truly a free people) is concerned.
It's worthy noting that his family, the people who really love him
have found the latest video a positive message:
Idaho National Guard spokesperson, Lt. Col. Tim Marsano, said ". . .
Bergdahl's family is very hopeful that the message will be a positive
one, as far as their son' health and well-being are concerned",
according to the following source:
http://www.examiner.com/x-12767-US-Headlines-Examiner~y2009m12d25-Video-released-by-Taliban-believed-to-be-US-soldier-Bowe-Bergdahl-says-treated-with-dignity
Now to put the soldier's situation further in perspective (beyond the
contrast with the Pentagon's torture policy in Abu Ghraib in Iraq and
Guantanamo which Pte. Bergdahl did mention), we should look at Gilad
Shalit, the Israeli soldier held by the Palestinians since 2006. The
two are similar in that they have been treated well by their captors
and that they are both objects of trade: their freedom for that of a
number of hostages held by the other side. Because of this objective
and because each captor dear to the West has been confirmed healthy,
it is the recalcitrant policy of the US and Israel which has continued
to keep these two young soldiers at risk, not their respective captor.
And if there is no hint of violence or maltreatment evident from
Pte. Bergdahl's latest video, then it's unnatural for me to have a
violent imagery emerged from reading about this video.
And ultimately the best way for all Americans to judge is for them to
see the full video and make up their own mind as to whether this is
about a prospect of beheading as you conveyed or a positive message
about Pte. Bergdahl's personal health and well-being, as his family
has reported received it. And this is ultimately a test of the degree
of freedom and truthfulness the US government is willing to let its
citizens enjoy.
lo yeeOn
========
Friday December 25, 2009, 3:11 pm
By The BBC
December 25, 2009 "BBC" -- The man in the film, identifying himself as
Private Bowe Robert Bergdahl, criticises the US over the Afghan war
and relations with Muslims.
A Taliban spokesman then calls for the release of captured insurgents
in exchange for the 23-year-old.
His parents, Bob and Jani Bergdahl, responded by appealing for his
release.
The Western military alliance Nato confirmed that the man in the video
- seen wearing sunglasses, a military helmet and uniform - was Pte
Bergdahl.
It said he had clearly been forced to read a prepared statement. It is
not clear when the video, released on Friday, was recorded.
The airborne infantryman, originally from the US state of Idaho, spoke
clearly and appeared healthy.
He was captured in Paktika province, a Taliban stronghold in eastern
Afghanistan, on 30 June.
US Navy Rear Adm Gregory Smith said in a statement: "It reflects
nothing more than the violent, deceitful tactics of the Taliban
insurgency.
"To release this video on Christmas Day is an affront to the deeply
concerned family and friends of Bowe Bergdahl."
The Bergdahl family later issued a statement through the Idaho
National Guard, urging the captors "to let our only son come home".
And to Pte Bergdahl, the family said: "We love you and we believe in
you. Stay strong."
'Next Vietnam'
In the video, Pte Bergdahl gives his rank, date and place of birth,
and deployment details.
"This is just going to be the next Vietnam unless the American people
stand up and stop all this nonsense," he says.
He adds: "You are not fighting a small group of terrorist guerrilla
fighters.
"You are fighting an organised guerrilla army that has perfected
guerrilla warfare better than any country has ever perfected it in
history."
A statement read by a Taliban spokesman, Zabihullah Mujahid, appears
at the end of the video and renews demands for a "limited number of
prisoners" to be exchanged for Pte Bergdahl.
The insurgents also released a video of the American a few weeks after
lo yeeOn
Daniel <sabot...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>On Dec 26, 3:21�am, acous...@panix.com (lo yeeOn) wrote:
>> In article
><d22326dc-148d-44c1-b2d5-4e409b971...@g22g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
Well, that is conceivable but, in my view, highly unlikely. And
there's no evidence from this latest video release that there is a
hint of this happening. So, let's get off the hysteria and take a
look at what is really in the video message.
To summarize: 1) the Taliban wants to trade him for a number of their
own being currently held by the NATO forces; 2) Pte. Bergdahl, by all
account, looks healthy (apparently months after he was captured); and
3) speaks calmly and without duress during his lengthy criticism of
our government's decades of failed and violent policy toward other
countries and of the current war in Afghanistan.
In particular, Pte. Bergdahl has this to say:
"This is just going to be the next Vietnam unless the American people
stand up and stop all this nonsense,"
He also speaks of his treatment while in captivity, saying "I was
continuously treated as a human being with dignity. I had nobody
deprive me of my clothes and take pictures of me naked. I had no dogs
barking at me and biting me, as my country has done to Muslim
prisoners in the jails that I mentioned."
To this the media response is not to provide any of the video at all.
At the same time, the Pentagon spokesman (US Navy Rear Adm Gregory
Smith) said in a statement: "It reflects nothing more than the
violent, deceitful tactics of the Taliban insurgency."
I beg his pardon, I do not get any sense at all from the printed
lo yeeOn
========
US Navy Rear Adm Gregory Smith said in a statement: "It reflects
nothing more than the violent, deceitful tactics of the Taliban
insurgency.
"To release this video on Christmas Day is an affront to the deeply
concerned family and friends of Bowe Bergdahl."
The Bergdahl family later issued a statement through the Idaho
National Guard, urging the captors "to let our only son come home".
And to Pte Bergdahl, the family said: "We love you and we believe in
you. Stay strong."
'Next Vietnam'
In the video, Pte Bergdahl gives his rank, date and place of birth,
and deployment details.
"This is just going to be the next Vietnam unless the American people
stand up and stop all this nonsense," he says.
He adds: "You are not fighting a small group of terrorist guerrilla
fighters.
"You are fighting an organised guerrilla army that has perfected
guerrilla warfare better than any country has ever perfected it in
history."
A statement read by a Taliban spokesman, Zabihullah Mujahid, appears
at the end of the video and renews demands for a "limited number of
prisoners" to be exchanged for Pte Bergdahl.
The insurgents also released a video of the American a few weeks after
lo yeeOn
Daniel <sabot...@hotmail.com> wrote:><fffd1bcb-65d9-4702-8b84-756c73556...@e20g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>,
>that sort of thing, do they?
What I said, in response to your ghoulish warning, was: the Taliban is
unlikely to behead Pte. Bergdahl (not to mention a scenario in which
they would take a saw to kill him - if you have evidence to the
contrary, please cite it. No sense being sarcastic about a thing you
predicted which has never happened. A saw?). I said that because the
Taliban has said they want to trade him for a number of their own
currently held by NATO forces. The Bergdahl case is quite similar to
the case of the Israeli soldier Shalit Gilad who has been a hostage of
Hamas since 2006. Hamas has taken care of him and has repeatedly
wanted to trade him for a number of their own held by Israel's IDFs.
I predict that unless NATO forces cornered Bergdahl's captors to the
point of causing their imminent demise, they just would not harm him
because of his obvious value for a fair prisoners-of-war trade. Can
you dig that, Daniel?
A US soldier in the field is more likely to die from getting blown up
by IEDs than Pte. Bergdahl because his captors would want him to be
alive to help advance their own agenda. Despite the ugly strawman
caricature of the Taliban and "other radical Islamist groups" by the
US government and the MSM, our enemies are actually smart, organized
fighters as Pte Bergdahl pointed out in the video:
"This is just going to be the next Vietnam unless the American people
stand up and stop all this nonsense," he says.
He adds: "You are not fighting a small group of terrorist guerrilla
fighters. "You are fighting an organised guerrilla army that has
perfected guerrilla warfare better than any country has ever
perfected it in history."
In view of history, who can argue with Bergdahl on this assessment?
The Taliban fighters are fighting foreign invaders/occupiers and so
they cannot afford to fight like some idiots from a rocky-horror show.
And I think Pte. Bergdahl ought to be listened to when he rallied the
American people to stand up and stop all this nonsense (advanced by
our government).
Don't you think so, Daniel?
lo yeeOn
========
According to the BBC, Bergdahl, 23, looks healthy and speaks calmly
and clearly, and does not appear to be under duress.
Furthermore, the soldier himself said in the video that he was treated
with "dignity" (in captivity)
So, it really begs the question of what the US government, with which
the mainstream media have volunteered to cooperate and keep this video
as hidden as possible, wishes for the American people, as far as their
need to be informed (in order to be truly a free people) is concerned.
One source I have found in print has this to say:
The most recent video shows a man wearing sunglasses and a United
States military-type uniform and helmet.
According to the BBC, Bergdahl, 23, "looks healthy and speaks calmly
and clearly, and does not appear to be under duress."
In the video, the man identifies himself as Bergdahl and gives
personal details such as his rank, deployment information, his birth
date, and place of birth.
"This is just going to be the next Vietnam unless the American people
stand up and stop all this nonsense," says the man believed to be
Bergdahl.
He also speaks of his treatment while in captivity, saying "I was
continuously treated as a human being with dignity. I had nobody
deprive me of my clothes and take pictures of me naked. I had no dogs
barking at me and biting me, as my country has done to Muslim
prisoners in the jails that I mentioned."
According to the Washington Post, in the video Bergdahl also states
that U.S. officials have led the country into ". . . the same holes
that America keeps falling into over and over and over again, be it
Vietnam, Japan, Germany, Somalia, Lebanon, Iraq. And now it's
Afghanistan. It's the next hole for us to fall into . . .".
Idaho National Guard spokesperson, Lt. Col. Tim Marsano, said ". . .
Bergdahl's family is very hopeful that the message will be a positive
one, as far as their son' health and well-being are concerned".
Bergdahl's whereabouts are still unknown; however, authorities
believe he is in either Pakistan or Afghanistan.
It's telling that his family, i.e., the people who really care about
him, have found this video a "positive" message "as far as their son'
health and well-being are concerned".
lo yeeOn
Daniel <sabot...@hotmail.com> wrote:><fbca4dda-d0c6-46fe-88ca-95d4c14d9...@u37g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>,
>> predicted which has never happened. A saw?)
>
>because that's what they do. As for the figure of speech I used, I
>take it you have never seen them behead someone, have you?
>
>Google Daniel Berg.
It's true that I "have never seen them behead someone", have you?
Daniel, you're too stubborn to listen.
Daniel Berg was not a US soldier and it was a long time ago. I don't
know that the Taliban had anything to do with his capture or
execution. He was done in by being a head honcho spying for some
organization in Pakistan. That's at least the rationale behind the
act of his captors for taking him. But the guys who masterminded the
crime and killed him were put on trial and were also sentenced to long
imprisonment, no?
By contrast, Bergdahl is a US soldier and his captors are part of the
Taliban. If you would just be less stubborn and listen to what he had
to say on the videotape, you would know that they are well-organized,
disciplined guerrilla fighters and only want to win back Afghanistan
for themselves which we violently took from them.
There is no evidence the Taliban fighters today want to do that kind
of things fighting NATO forces. If they did, they could have done it
many times already, given their extensive control over many parts of
Afghanistan where NATO troops have been deployed. By their track
record in both action and rhetoric, they have not given the slightest
hint that the captured soldier would be harmed. All you have to do,
Daniel (which is not necessarily your name but which is your newsgroup
persona for whatever reason), is read the reports on the latest video
and see if there is any hint of violence. The only thing the Pentagon
said was that it was "an affront" to Pte. Bergdahl's family and that
it was
"It reflects nothing more than the violent, deceitful tactics of the
Taliban insurgency",
without citing any evidence for that conclusion.
Any sound mind can tell you that the Pentagon is not worried about
Pte. Bergdahl's personal safety right now. They are more worried
about hiding the strong rhetoric that the soldier used against the
war, which, according to the little revealed by the BBC News, says
"This is just going to be the next Vietnam unless the American people
stand up and stop all this nonsense," [Bergdahl] says.
He adds: "You are not fighting a small group of terrorist guerrilla
fighters. "You are fighting an organised guerrilla army that has
perfected guerrilla warfare better than any country has ever
perfected it in history."
This is exactly the situation with Israel's Shalit Gilad. Gilad was
captured in 2006. But Israel was not worried despite the high value
the government has always placed on its soldiers. Israel has a great
track record of rescuing its citizens taken hostage and bringing them
safe and sound home in lightning speed. But they know that in Gilad's
case, Hamas isn't about to harm him. And so Hamas has to keep feeding
him and make sure he's well while Israel is pointing its collective
nose up and apparently saying: "Me? worried?", without actually saying
a word. Now, the Pentagon is doing exactly the same thing for a lot
of reason. And just as in Gilad's case, it could have done a number
of things to free the soldier but didn't, knowing that he wasn't going
anywhere soon. And from the Pte. Bergdahl's demeanor in the video, he
wasn't as nervous as he was in the first video soon after his capture.
Instead, he was calling the Afghan war a lot of nonsense which would
be a Vietnam.
And even on Fox News, when the analysts are lining up to call Bergdahl
a liar and unpatriotic, they were also saying that the Taliban wasn't
about to execute him. So, your assertion
"The Taliban is VERY likely to kill him"
is baseless and is nothing but a lot of hot air and irrational hatred
of people who are not America's enemies.
If Pte. Bergdahl would be dead before he was free, that's most likely
because NATO forces are going to storm his captors. But under that
scenario, all bets are off! Ok, Daniel?
So, please listen and think, lest that you continue to support a war
which has bled America to near-death for the past eight years with no
end in sight.
Und der Heifisch, der hat Zaehne,
und die traegt er im Gesicht.
Und McHealth, der had ein Messer,
doch das Messer sieht man nicht!
(from Bertolt Brecht: Drei Groschen Roman)
I think it appropriately describes America's real enemy.
What the shark has is what everybody can see and knows how to avoid by
taking suitable measures. But the knife of endless wars which have
been bleeding America to death is well hidden (by the warmongers using
the weapons of fear and deception). So, please be well aware of this
war Private Bergdahl thinks is bringing us another Vietnam "unless the
American people stand up and stop [it]".
"This is just going to be the next Vietnam unless the American
people stand up and stop all this nonsense" (Pte. Bergdahl)
lo yeeOn
========
lo yeeOn
Daniel <sabot...@hotmail.com> wrote:><326f3905-92de-4ec0-a060-21b33fa63...@m25g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>,
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Daniel <sabot12...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >On Dec 27, 3:41 am, acous...@panix.com (lo yeeOn) wrote:
>>
>> >> In article
>> ><fbca4dda-d0c6-46fe-88ca-95d4c14d9...@u37g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>,
>> >> Daniel <sabot12...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >On Dec 26, 8:55 pm, acous...@panix.com (lo yeeOn) wrote:
>> >> >> In article
>> >> ><fffd1bcb-65d9-4702-8b84-756c73556...@e20g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>,
>>
>> >> >> Daniel <sabot12...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >> >On Dec 26, 3:21 am, acous...@panix.com (lo yeeOn) wrote:
>> >> >> >> In article
>> >> >> ><d22326dc-148d-44c1-b2d5-4e409b971...@g22g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
>>
>> >> >> >> rst0wxyz <rst0w...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >> >> >> >On Dec 25, 12:42 pm, ltlee1 <ltl...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >>>http://www.rnw.nl/english/article/nato-confirms-identity-taliban-hostage
>>
>> >> >> >> apparently some months after his capture by the
>> >> >> >> Taliban. (Fox News had an analyst calling him a liar if not
>> >> >> >> worse.) And he apparently has been pretty safe, away from
>> >> >> >> dangerous missions as well as avoiding the barbarous acts of
>> >> >> >> killing innocent civilians. He's been away from all that.
>>
>>
>> >> >> Well, that is conceivable but, in my view, highly unlikely.
>>
>> >> >Yeah, because the Taliban and other radical Islamist groups don't do
>> >> >that sort of thing, do they?
>>
>> >> What I said, in response to your ghoulish warning, was: the Taliban is
>> >> unlikely to behead Pte. Bergdahl (not to mention a scenario in which
>> >> they would take a saw to kill him - if you have evidence to the
>> >> contrary, please cite it. (No sense being sarcastic about a thing you
>> >> predicted which has never happened. A saw?)
>>
>> >The Taliban is VERY likely to kill him, regardless of the outcome,
>> >because that's what they do. As for the figure of speech I used, I
>> >take it you have never seen them behead someone, have you?
>>
>> >Google Daniel Berg.
>>
>> It's true that I "have never seen them behead someone", have you?
>>
>> Daniel, you're too stubborn to listen.
>>
>> Daniel Berg was not a US soldier and it was a long time ago.
>
>True, but SSG Maupin WAS. You DO remember him, don't you?
Did you see his beheading? I'm afraid, Daniel, that you're obsessed
with beheading:
On June 28, 2004, Al Jazeera reported that Maupin was executed by a
group identifying itself as The Persistent Power Against the Enemies
of God and the Prophet. The method of execution in the video was a
gunshot to the head. The U.S. Army deemed the tape inconclusive,
because it is unclear whether the man was Maupin.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matt_Maupin
The wikipedia article also mentions that the tape, broadcast by Al
Jazeera, which was reportedly delivered to the U.S. Embassy in Doha,
Qatar, had the soldier identified himself as "Private First Class
Keith Matthew Maupin", a standard procedure followed by prisoners of
war that protects their rights under the Third Geneva Convention.
Finally, the group identified above was not the Taliban.
So, Daniel, neither the captors nor the event had any relationship
with Pte. Bergdahl or the likelihood that the Taliban would behead
him. To the contrary, the latest video shows a spirited Bergdahl
denouncing the Afghan war and its futility:
"This is just going to be the next Vietnam unless the American people
stand up and stop all this nonsense," [Bergdahl] says.
He adds: "You are not fighting a small group of terrorist guerrilla
fighters. "You are fighting an organised guerrilla army that has
perfected guerrilla warfare better than any country has ever
perfected it in history."
And in general, none of the reports about the video tells of anything
ghoulish like you've suggested.
Instead the message seems to say: 1) the Taliban wants to trade a
healthy-looking Bergdahl (despite having been in captivity for six
months) for a number of their own currently held by the NATO forces
and 2) Bergdahl speaks calmly and without duress during his lengthy
criticism of our government's decades of failed and violent policy
toward other countries and, in particular, of the current war in
Afghanistan.
At least, the video has reportedly been a positive thing for the
soldier's family, as far as their son' health and well-being are
concerned.
And of course it would be better if we, the public, were allowed to see
the video and judge for ourselves whether this is about a prospective
beheading as you conveyed or a positive message about Pte. Bergdahl's
personal health and well-being, as his family has reportedly received
it.
lo yeeOn
========
[Last time I wrote further that:]
It's true that I "have never seen them behead someone", have you?
Daniel, you're too stubborn to listen.
Daniel Berg [who I surmised was a shorthand for Daniel Pearl and Nick
Berg, according to "Daniel", the poster to whom I wrote this response]
was not a US soldier and it was a long time ago. I don't know that
the Taliban had anything to do with his capture or execution. He was
done in by being a head honcho spying for some organization in
Pakistan. That's at least the rationale behind the act of his captors
for taking him. But the guys who masterminded the crime and killed
him were put on trial and were also sentenced to long imprisonment,
no?
By contrast, Bergdahl is a US soldier and his captors are part of the
Taliban. If you would just be less stubborn and listen to what he had
to say on the videotape, you would know that they are well-organized,
disciplined guerrilla fighters and only want to win back Afghanistan
for themselves which we violently took from them.
There is no evidence the Taliban fighters today want to do that kind
of things fighting NATO forces. If they did, they could have done it
many times already, given their extensive control over many parts of
Afghanistan where NATO troops have been deployed. By their track
record in both action and rhetoric, they have not given the slightest
hint that the captured soldier would be harmed. All you have to do,
Daniel (which is not necessarily your name but which is your newsgroup
persona for whatever reason), is read the reports on the latest video
and see if there is any hint of violence. The only thing the Pentagon
said was that it was "an affront" to Pte. Bergdahl's family and that
"It reflects nothing more than the violent, deceitful tactics of the
Taliban insurgency",
without citing any evidence for that conclusion.
Any sound mind can tell you that the Pentagon is not worried about
Pte. Bergdahl's personal safety right now. They are more worried
about hiding the strong rhetoric that the soldier used against the
war, which, according to the little revealed by the BBC News, was
"This is just going to be the next Vietnam unless the American people
stand up and stop all this nonsense," [Bergdahl] says.
He adds: "You are not fighting a small group of terrorist guerrilla
fighters. "You are fighting an organised guerrilla army that has
perfected guerrilla warfare better than any country has ever
perfected it in history."
This is exactly the situation with Israel's Shalit Gilad. Gilad was
captured in 2006. But Israel was not worried despite the high value
the government has always placed on its soldiers. Israel has a great
track record of rescuing its citizens taken hostage and bringing them
safe and sound home in lightning speed. But they know that in Gilad's
case, Hamas isn't about to harm him. And so Hamas has to keep feeding
him and make sure he's well while Israel is pointing its collective
nose up and apparently saying: "Me? worried?", without actually saying
a word. Now, the Pentagon is doing exactly the same thing for a lot
of reasons. And just as in Gilad's case, it could have done a number
of things to free the soldier but didn't, knowing that he wasn't going
anywhere soon. And from the Pte. Bergdahl's demeanor in the video, he
wasn't as nervous as he was in the first video soon after his capture.
Instead, he was calling the Afghan war a lot of nonsense which would
be a Vietnam.
And even on Fox News, when the analysts are lining up to call Bergdahl
a liar and unpatriotic, they were also saying that the Taliban wasn't
about to execute him. So, your assertion
"The Taliban is VERY likely to kill him"
is baseless and is nothing but a lot of hot air and irrational hatred
of people who are not America's enemies.
If Pte. Bergdahl dies before he is freed, that will most likely be
because NATO forces go storm his captors. But under that scenario,