IMF Bailout and More Hard Choices.
CHUCKY
What is this IMF bailout mean for the average citizens?
Lot of international citizens snicker "look at poor Korea, begging
for money". Many of them predict Korean economy will go down the
tank because of all those superior Japanese and Americans will come
in with all their superior products and flood the market, now that
IMF will force wide open the economy. But I don't think that will
happen. Simply because all those unemployed layed off wage earners,
or all those salarymen with their wages cut to the bone, will not have
the money to buy anything, let alone Japanese/American goods.
I mean, for example, if you worked in Hyundai automobile, but now
you work as a shirt maker for 50 cents an hour in a sweat shop, would
you have the money to buy a Honda Accord, now that Hyudai, Samsung,
and all the others will go out of business?
I think all the foreigners working in Korea should go home as well,
since there is no work for them anymore, there's no sense wasting
their time.
All the chaebols are in big trouble, and that makes lot of people
happy. But who's going to take their place, other than the revitalized
sweatshop factories employing people making shoes for 10 cents an
hour? But is that the question? It makes lot of people happy to see
Koreans going back to the rice paddies where they belong.
So what's next?
What da ya say, Keef? JRK? TCE? Sowa? Jaghya?
Mike
Poor Korea?? Even with IMF bailout, Korea is expected to grow by 3 percent
with unemployment under 5 percent.....that ain't bad....that's how much USA,
the strongest economy in the world, is growing. Compare that with some of
the largest European country such as France and Germany. Listen Chucky,
just for a second forget your jingoistic sensiblity and think rationally.
No one right mind would think Korea is going in a hell basket; IMF bailout
is the best thing that happened to Korea. It will force Korea to become
more competitive, transparent and wealthier. Korea's worker are among the
best paid workers in the world...the wage of Korean worker is highter than
Britain's....so a dip in their pay check aint' gonna force them into a life
of poverty.
Might I remind you Chucky that in the early 80's Korea economy actually
shrank by 5 percent, President for life Park Chung-Hee was assisnated, the
threat from N. Korea was far greater than it is now and heavilty in debt.
Korea survived through that period even stronger and I have no doubt that
Korea will come out of current crisis even stronger than in the past.
CHUCKY wrote in message <3485CF...@istar.ca>...
JRK
-----Original Message-----
From: CHUCKY <dry...@istar.ca>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
Date: Thursday, December 04, 1997 3:27 AM
Subject: IMF Bailout and More Hard Choices.
>What is this IMF bailout mean for the average citizens?
>Lot of international citizens snicker "look at poor Korea, begging
>for money". Many of them predict Korean economy will go down the
>tank because of all those superior Japanese and Americans will come
It means waking up to the real world. The reforms are going to be a bitch
and then some. Korea has no business earning $11,000 per capita just yet.
Better around $6k or $8k like the real men in the countryside earn. It
means that property values will be relative to the REAL price with out some
bank proping up some landlords speculative ambitions. For the first time
foreigners will be allowed to own a majority stake in companies and greater
share of property. As the doors open Korea will be exposed to the way
foreigners do things in more efficiently run countries and they can thus
pick and choose what they wish to absorb.
>in with all their superior products and flood the market, now that
>IMF will force wide open the economy. But I don't think that will
s>happen. Simply because all those unemployed layed off wage earners,
>or all those salarymen with their wages cut to the bone, will not have
>the money to buy anything, let alone Japanese/American goods.
>I mean, for example, if you worked in Hyundai automobile, but now
>you work as a shirt maker for 50 cents an hour in a sweat shop, would
Firstly Korea has a developed industrial infrastructure in chemicals, steel,
manufacturing and it's extremely unlikely that anyone is going to go back to
work in a sweatshop for .50 cents or even $6 an hour. The only thing that
could cause such a mess would be for the North to invade and fuck everything
up destructively.
>you have the money to buy a Honda Accord, now that Hyudai, Samsung,
>and all the others will go out of business?
>
>I think all the foreigners working in Korea should go home as well,
>since there is no work for them anymore, there's no sense wasting
>their time.
Not on your life! Foreigners are set to make a pile $$ (now and in the
future) and prepare for the good times ahead by establishing themselves now
with everything so reasonably priced.
>All the chaebols are in big trouble, and that makes lot of people
>happy. But who's going to take their place, other than the revitalized
>sweatshop factories employing people making shoes for 10 cents an
>hour? But is that the question? It makes lot of people happy to see
>Koreans going back to the rice paddies where they belong.
>
Yes, it makes a good many people pleased to see Korea eat it's pride when it
shouldn't have been so bold and loud since it still had lots of growing up
to
do. A little unrelated but have you seen how a good many of these mother
fuckers travel in Southeast Asia? Walking around like they are some thing
really big while in their native home there not worth a bean. In comparison
the quiet, humble Japanese treat most hosts with respect and dignity and
they are the very people who could buy the host or even the Korean's seat
(assets) from underneath in a heartbeat.
So what's next?
So to the jews of Asia I say eat that humble pie!
CHUCKY
JRK wrote:
>
>
> Not on your life! Foreigners are set to make a pile $$ (now and in the
How? With no Job?
> future) and prepare for the good times ahead by establishing themselves now
> with everything so reasonably priced.
>
What? With runaway inflation?
> >All the chaebols are in big trouble, and that makes lot of people
> >happy. But who's going to take their place, other than the revitalized
> >sweatshop factories employing people making shoes for 10 cents an
> >hour? But is that the question? It makes lot of people happy to see
> >Koreans going back to the rice paddies where they belong.
> >
>
> Yes, it makes a good many people pleased to see Korea eat it's pride when it
> shouldn't have been so bold and loud since it still had lots of growing up
> to
> do. A little unrelated but have you seen how a good many of these mother
> fuckers travel in Southeast Asia? Walking around like they are some thing
> really big while in their native home there not worth a bean. In comparison
> the quiet, humble Japanese treat most hosts with respect and dignity and
You mean like those Sex-tourists to Phillipines and beyond? Or you mean
likethose polite Americans who bitch and moan about how bad Kimchi stinks?
Or ugly Americans like you? Please be more speficific.
> they are the very people who could buy the host or even the Korean's seat
> (assets) from underneath in a heartbeat.
>
Yes. Everyone love the Japs because they have money. But not.
CHUCKY
JRK wrote:
>
>
> Yes, it makes a good many people pleased to see Korea eat it's pride when it
> shouldn't have been so bold and loud since it still had lots of growing up
> to
> do. A little unrelated but have you seen how a good many of these mother
> fuckers travel in Southeast Asia? Walking around like they are some thing
> really big while in their native home there not worth a bean. In comparison
> the quiet, humble Japanese treat most hosts with respect and dignity and
> they are the very people who could buy the host or even the Korean's seat
> (assets) from underneath in a heartbeat.
>
I guess you didn't hear the news yet. All of Asia is in big financial mess, not
just Korea.And Japan is the biggest mess of them all, with all their banks in
big heep of trouble,
teetering on collapse. Japan can't buy a plastic toy made in Thailand, never
mind trying
to bail their economy out.
That leads to an important question: It's true that Korea's structural problems
were
deep, and they needed fixing badly. But also how much of the current economic
problems are because of inefficient structure, and how much of that is foreign
perception
of Korea. After all, many, if not most, westerners think Korea is in South East
Asia,
separate from Japan and China. And they started all this dominoe affect of
withdrawing
all their investments, and savagely attacking the currencies of the region. How
much
of that has to do with current problems? After all, Korea in 1995, a boom year
with
a very strong currency, had the same structural problems of Korea of 1997.
What could have caused a complete economic collapse, just over a span of few
months?
Why did the Won tumble so fast, and so far? You can't tell me it's solely
because
of economic structural problems. Even Russia has far deeper problems, yet they
don't have to beg for money from the IMF.
In my opinion, Korea's problem is more than economics, it's also 50% foreign
perception
as well. That perfectly fits my thread "Why is Korea so Unknown?" that I
started few
weeks back.
AARON M URE
So just a question are the days of making a killing in English over for a
while. Seems like Koreans would be hesitant to pay English teachers the
big bucks. Glad I got out. If anyone is in Korea or knows more about it
please post a message. I guess the hawkkwang owners really have a good
excuse now not to pay.
SA
Yes - with a 30% devaluation, the days of making money are over for
English teaching. However, with the outflux of teachers, Hogwan owners
will be in a desparate situation. The Hogwan (reputable) I work for
has just given us an overall rate increase. What concerns me most with
the IMF deal is the resentment Koreans will have for foreigners. It
could turn out to be a dangerous place for those of us who stay.
CHUCKY
SA wrote:
Yes the excuse of being all bankrupt. Hurray, it;'s about time.
SA
On Sat, 06 Dec 1997 18:26:57 GMT, CHUCKY <yoo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Yes the excuse of being all bankrupt. Hurray, it;'s about time.
>
This pleases you ? Their demise is our demise, plain and simple.
CHUCKY
SA wrote:
It pleases me because it means no more substandard schools teaching
substandard
materials taught by unqualified substandard teachers. Students need
real education,
not education rip-offs for huge $$$.
William John Sowa
>
I suspect you guys may all be wrong! What I suspect is that foreign
tourists are now even more in a better position to "secretly teach
private English lessons under the table" inside Korean apartments
because now with the hogwons manghae-ing, it is the perfect time
for your average Joe tourist to move in negotiating some secret
deal to teach private lessons inside a Korean apartment. Maybe
they won't be able to get 100,000 won an hour like "in the good days"
but it will be still be something worth negotiating for.
EGG HQ
William John Sowa
In article <348a0b8d...@snews.zippo.com>, SA <S...@abnormal.com> wrote:
>On Sat, 06 Dec 1997 18:26:57 GMT, CHUCKY <yoo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>
>
>
I think CHUCKY is talking about those greedy hogwon owners that
set up an ungteri hogwon overnight, take precious money from Koreans,
the Korean students still can't make one English sentence, and
the wonjangs quickly fire their English teachers if they start
complaining. I have no sympathy to see these guys manghae.
EGG HQ
eoayoa
CHUCKY <yoo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>SA wrote:
>> On Sat, 06 Dec 1997 18:26:57 GMT, CHUCKY <yoo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >Yes the excuse of being all bankrupt. Hurray, it;'s about time.
>> >
>>
>> This pleases you ? Their demise is our demise, plain and simple.
> It pleases me because it means no more substandard schools teaching
>substandard
>materials taught by unqualified substandard teachers. Students need
>real education,
>not education rip-offs for huge $$$.
Good point. But students need more than that. How about a reformation
of the Korean education system that makes it mandatory to know English
via the English component of the college entrance exam? Going further,
how about reforming an economic, social, and cultural system that
blights the opportunities of anyone not able to attend college? More
than that, what about reforming a language that is the most
hierarchical, anti-meritocratic, anti-egalitarian of all the major
languages? More than that, how about reforming a sexist, mysogynistic
Confucian philosophy that blights the development of women into
responsible, free-thinking adulthood and makes the men into
nepotistic, boring, sullen lugs whose only salvation is the automatism
of the corporation. : )
I'm back.
Peter Kang
trevor gulliver
> >> >So just a question are the days of making a killing in English
> over for a
> >> >while. Seems like Koreans would be hesitant to pay English
> teachers the
> >> >big bucks. Glad I got out. If anyone is in Korea or knows more
> about it
> >> >please post a message. I guess the hawkkwang owners really have a
> good
> >> >excuse now not to pay.
> >
> >
I don't think that English teachers here are going to be short of work,
just short of decent pay in a post-devaluation won. The government's
actively discouraging Koreans from going overseas to study English. That
being the case there's going to be more studying in Korean instead of
abroad. The Korean English teachers and civil servants who were going to
be sent overseas for a week or so will now be sent to Kangnung or Sokcho
for a week instead. There should be more short, bonus gigs if you're
connected with the school system or a university, or live in a nice town
for conferences.
William John Sowa
Mike <mik...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Poor Korea?? Even with IMF bailout, Korea is expected to grow by 3 percent
>with unemployment under 5 percent.....that ain't bad....that's how much USA,
>the strongest economy in the world, is growing. Compare that with some of
>the largest European country such as France and Germany. Listen Chucky,
>just for a second forget your jingoistic sensiblity and think rationally.
>
>No one right mind would think Korea is going in a hell basket; IMF bailout
>is the best thing that happened to Korea. It will force Korea to become
>more competitive, transparent and wealthier. Korea's worker are among the
>best paid workers in the world...the wage of Korean worker is highter than
>Britain's....so a dip in their pay check aint' gonna force them into a life
>of poverty.
>
>Might I remind you Chucky that in the early 80's Korea economy actually
>shrank by 5 percent, President for life Park Chung-Hee was assisnated, the
>threat from N. Korea was far greater than it is now and heavilty in debt.
>Korea survived through that period even stronger and I have no doubt that
>Korea will come out of current crisis even stronger than in the past.
>
Well, CHUCKY, I just read in the Detroit papers yesterday that KIA
expects to introduce two new lines of automobiles to their American
line next year, including the much-anticipated 2 door Sportage convertible
soft-top. This coming from a company that was one of the biggest
chaebols to almost totally collapse. So, amongst the internal problems, we
should analyze the Korean economy from an international perspective, too,
instead of just looking internally. You see, in the early 1990's Korean
chaebol spent billions and billions of US dollars to set up foreign
operations. Many of those Korean operations operating OUTSIDE of Korea
were NOT affected by the internal bank scandals and political scandals
of the current IMF bailout of Korea. In fact, most of the Korean
foreign operations outside of Korea are gaining steam, as they are
financed by non-Korean banks, and run by non-Korean management with
a substantial amount of the profits going to the chaebol, who, inturn,
keep their profits in foreign exchange banks. For the poor blue collar
worker in Korea, this is really bad, because it means foreigners are
doing the work that Korean workers could have done. BUT, from the
financial analyst point-of-view, the globalization of the Korean
chaebol was brilliant! It shows that the chaebols' foreign operations
can operate autonomously free from Korean corrupt internal politics.
AND, more importantly, it demonstrates how foreign workers in foreign
countries are becoming more increasingly dependent on Korea for jobs.
"One man's loss is another man's gain."
EGG HQ
William John Sowa
Pretty good. This is a time of spectacular observations by the
Korean Armchair Analyst Club. For example, look at North Korea:
50 years of Juche lunacy with few reforms of an ancient Communist
system combined with an ancient Confucianist system (double jeopardy).
It will be interesting to see how quickly South Korea reforms their
systems, or if they stubbornly adhere to the "we are proud Koreans
and we will tough this out by patiently standing still and remaining
firm" philosophy that doesn't do much to dynamically adjust yourself
to a dynamically changing global environment needed to survive in
today's world. A huge total revision of South Korean society would
not only be spectacular, but incredibly bold and daring, too.
Imagine South Korea becoming the only Far East Asian country to break
free from Chinese Confucianism, to develop their own unique hybrid
of social order.
EGG HQ
Jason Kim
I would like to interject something here - As someone who had his very early
education in Korea, I would like to point out that there is a slight problem
with "getting rid of" "Confucianism" in South Korean Society.
While I perfectlty agree with the esteemed members of the K.A.A.C. (*grin*)
that indeed much of Korea's current social and economic problems can be traced
back (at least superficially) to Confucianism, I would also like to point out
that Confucianism as a philosophy is not actually *taught* at schools. But
rather the status oriented interactions are *implicitly* enforced by each
"older" generation to each younger generation. It is not a simple problem as
throwing away a *Philosophy* but rather reeducation of the MILLIONS of
individual Koreans that there are valid merit based alternatives to age/status
differentiation that is so prevalent in Korean society.
In article <66hc5o$g...@srvr1.engin.umich.edu>,
William John Sowa <ws...@engin.umich.edu> wrote:
>In article <348bb...@blush.jps.net>, eoayoa <eoa...@jps.net> wrote:
>>Good point. But students need more than that. How about a reformation
>>of the Korean education system that makes it mandatory to know English
>>via the English component of the college entrance exam? Going further,
>>how about reforming an economic, social, and cultural system that
>>blights the opportunities of anyone not able to attend college? More
Education is not the main problem here. Implicit and explictit status
differentition is.
>>than that, what about reforming a language that is the most
>>hierarchical, anti-meritocratic, anti-egalitarian of all the major
I am not exactly an expert on the more difficult nuances of Hangul, (*shame*)
but still, can you please give me examples of this?
>>languages? More than that, how about reforming a sexist, mysogynistic
>>Confucian philosophy that blights the development of women into
Exactly how "Confucianism" can be shelved aside is a difficult question.
The problem here is that THERE IS NO SINGLE SOURCE OF THIS <*"Great Evil"*>
It is practiced namelessly, without glorifcation or deifaction by millions of
Koreans.
I just hope that in however this grand scheme is accomplished, it isn't done
by some kind of ultra left wing "Anti Confuscianist-Thought Police."
There is a sobering lesson would be social reformers need to learn from around
the world - I just would to toss some words in:
*Nazi Germany* - extermination of millions of Jews.
*Lenin* - murderd millions of his own people.
*Mao Zedong* - ditto.
*The Former Yugoslavia* - War criminial is running for president.
*Afghanistan* - Fundamentalist Moslems now rule it.
Its very easy to point at someone else (all the particpating members of the
K.A.A.C. are by default not residing in Korea at this time) and shovel blame
and shout (confusing) reformist rhetoric, but WITHOUT PROPOSING WORKABLE
SOLUTIONS, ALL THE RHETORIC, NO MATTER HOW BRILLIANTELY IT IS EVOKED, LOSES
ITS MEANING AND PURPOSE.
Most of the revolutions in recent history around the world has been by this
kind of destructive path. I would like to avoid *YET ANOTHER* tragedy for the
future Unified Korea.
>>responsible, free-thinking adulthood and makes the men into
>>nepotistic, boring, sullen lugs whose only salvation is the automatism
>>of the corporation. : )
>>
>>I'm back.
>>
>>Peter Kang
>>
>
>Pretty good. This is a time of spectacular observations by the
>Korean Armchair Analyst Club. For example, look at North Korea:
>50 years of Juche lunacy with few reforms of an ancient Communist
>system combined with an ancient Confucianist system (double jeopardy).
Please note, my personal observation is that younger Chinese nationals who are
here in the USA ARE NOT active practioners of (implicit) Confucianism.
>It will be interesting to see how quickly South Korea reforms their
>systems, or if they stubbornly adhere to the "we are proud Koreans
>and we will tough this out by patiently standing still and remaining
>firm" philosophy that doesn't do much to dynamically adjust yourself
>to a dynamically changing global environment needed to survive in
>today's world. A huge total revision of South Korean society would
>not only be spectacular, but incredibly bold and daring, too.
>Imagine South Korea becoming the only Far East Asian country to break
>free from Chinese Confucianism, to develop their own unique hybrid
>of social order.
It has been my experience that many chinese nationals would probably argue
that the role of confucianism, at least in the lives of younger people is
severely overrated.
I would like to end with a joke a Chinese national student friend of mine
related to me just recently.
"In Beijing, most of the younger couples' family is totally upside down!
Its now usually the husband who goes to wife to beg for allowance!"
-Jason Kim
Choi Mihee
I feel sorry about the economic crisis in Korea, though I don't feel
any change in my life yet because of the crisis.(I live in Seoul.)
And I always feel sorry about the greedy Korean owners who treat
migrant workers badly.
And I also feel sorry about the hakwon owners who only care for money
and not treat the teachers fairly.
But I really feel sorry about the English teachers at hakwons who I
cannot think they are *teacher*s.
I've learned English for a long time and met more than 10 teachers.
There were good teachers, but 3/4 of them were not qualified, I think.
Damn Korean edu sys. Untill when we must pay so much money to feed
those who have only the skill of speaking English?
William John Sowa
Choi Mihee <hotn...@chollian.net> wrote:
>
>Damn Korean edu sys. Untill when we must pay so much money to feed
>those who have only the skill of speaking English?
Especially when about 95% of language spoken WITHIN a Korean company
is Korean, after all.
EGG HQ
trevor gulliver
> But I really feel sorry about the English teachers at hakwons who I
> cannot think they are *teacher*s.
> I've learned English for a long time and met more than 10 teachers.
> There were good teachers, but 3/4 of them were not qualified, I think.
>
> Damn Korean edu sys. Untill when we must pay so much money to feed
> those who have only the skill of speaking English?
Until Hakwon owners are legally bound to hire only teachers with a TESOL
certificate -- not an English Literature major but a Teacher of English
to Speakers of Other Languages.
Before I came to Korea I was told I would be fully trained upon my
arrival. I got off the plane at Kimpo and six hours later my
won-jang-nim said "Here's your class."
I said "What about my training?"
To which he replied, "Just talk slowly."
It was April Fool's Day 1996 and I was the fool. Many of us are
dedicated teachers who are inventive and thoughtful teachers but yes, I
agree with you, English teachers should be constantly working to improve
their teaching skills.
TCE
CHUCKY wrote in message <34874BFE...@hotmail.com>...
>
>
>JRK wrote:
>>
>
>In my opinion, Korea's problem is more than economics, it's also 50%
foreign
>perception
>as well. That perfectly fits my thread "Why is Korea so Unknown?" that I
>started few
>weeks back.
>> So what's next?
>> So to the jews of Asia I say eat that humble pie!
>> >What da ya say, Keef? JRK? TCE? Sowa? Jaghya?
I don't think Korea is so unknown in the world's business circles which
sadly don't generally give a crap about a country's culture outside of a 5
star hotel. Foreign investors months ago commented on the weakness in Korean
Merchant Banks and Brokerages. They called it the "Frankenstein Economy"
because it was controlled by the generally brainless and heedless
Chaebol-Gov. planners.
BTW, I don't have doubts about the Korean people's ability to tackle
difficult projects and succeed, however, their nationalism in the financial
sector will hang them higher because they don't use the accepted norms of
international finance such as outside accountants or managers.
Rating services such as Moody's don't give knee-jerk ratings to countries
which have a record of fudging their ledgers. Are they wrong? Maybe Chucky
could convince them to forget the Korea or Japan premium so that many of
these Meglomaniacal Monoliths, without real external oversight, cannot sink
from overexpansion into sectors they can't compete in. You know the problems
all began when some chaebol president or gov. official decided to undertake
capital intensive projects, partly funded with expensive foreign capital,
without regard to currency fluctuations, saturated markets, depressed
prices, etc. How many steel mills, auto plants, or Port facilities does
Korea need in a span of 5 years? If Korea has one of the largest steel
producers in the world, why does it need more steel plants? Is it a pride
thing? Or maybe it's the "empire building" mentality that's got out of hand.
It's a shame about Halla these days too. The IMF , foreign investors, even
the KYS administration or currency speculators had nothing to do with its
probable bankruptcy.
As for Japan, where have you been for the last 6 years. When did the Nikkei
fall from 36,000? 1991? Japan has been locked in a cell of depreciated
assets for a long time, even while their companies made money.
Just a word here, the Great depression of the 1930's punished the world, I
don't believe this is a question of one nation getting one up on another,
yet in my discussions with diehard Korean nationalists who firmly believe
anything stemming from the US or an International Organization (i.e. WTO) is
some Foreigner's plot to derail the country, I can only shake my head and
say I told you so.
My only question to you Chucky is if you think Korea could have developed
without the Chaebol? I only guessing but you seem to romanticize the idea of
foreign investors (IMF led) sending overpaid Korean laborers into the
fields to dig with their barehands. Get real. Do you think Korea today would
still be filled with Rice farmers and shirt makers drinking Makkolli after a
14 hours a day, all spread out on the bare ground?-- Maybe with patronizing
Americans or Japanese visitors giving them their lack of development
headshakes and mumbles of pity. Would Seoul still be a city of mud and
concrete huts? If anybody has insecurity about what people can do (Korean or
foreign), I think it's you. Sarangieyo LG. I think it is time to let the
patriotic attachments to the Chaebol go.
Things will get worse. Nobody in Korea is happy about it.
TCE
SA
>
>Until Hakwon owners are legally bound to hire only teachers with a TESOL
>certificate -- not an English Literature major but a Teacher of English
>to Speakers of Other Languages.
This is pure bollocks ! Language is an art NOT a science. Good
teachers come from all walks of life. I have seen many so called
"TESOL" teachers fall flat on their face. Teaching requires many
intangible skills such as presentation, imagination, sense of humour,
patience, and social skills. I'll put my academic and professional
qualifications to the test against any "TESOL" teacher anytime .
apak
trevor gulliver (cana...@mail.hitel.net) wrote:
: Until Hakwon owners are legally bound to hire only teachers with a TESOL
: certificate -- not an English Literature major but a Teacher of English
: to Speakers of Other Languages.
Interesting you should mention this...just got a notice from the Dean at my
school that Daewoo is going to start their own language institute for its
employees. The minimum qualifications for teaching positions is a Master's in
TESOL. A step in the right direction, if you ask me...
CHUCKY
In article <66m0dv$d97$1...@news2.dacom.co.kr>, "TCE" says...
>
Well, I don't know why we're arguing. All I've been saying was Korean
economy needs revamping. I've been saying it has much to do with
culture than anything else. Confuscianism encourages nepotism,
corruption(to western standards it's corruption, to confuscian tradition
it is not, and nightmare buracracy which confuscianism holds it as
virtue. Who doesn't love a Korean civil worker working for a bloated
government? Why are so many Koreans dream of taking the civil servant
exam and work for the government? If Korean economy needs changing,
Korean culture must change first so that the mindset is changed. But
how do you get rid of this stubborn unconscious confuscian mindset?
Here we are in 21-century, and we have this 2000 year old philosopher
telling us how to eat sleep and walk.
>Just a word here, the Great depression of the 1930's punished the world, I
>don't believe this is a question of one nation getting one up on another,
>yet in my discussions with diehard Korean nationalists who firmly believe
>anything stemming from the US or an International Organization (i.e. WTO) is
>some Foreigner's plot to derail the country, I can only shake my head and
>say I told you so.
>
>My only question to you Chucky is if you think Korea could have developed
>without the Chaebol?
Yes and no. Without Chaebol, Korea could be like Hong Kong, Taiwan, and
Singapore. Mercantilist small business oriented. Nothing wrong with
that I suppose. But consider the example of Hong Kong; they still make
cheap toys from abundant Chinese labour, and they never had the urgency
to develop higher technology. But consider the fact that Korea was
uncomparably poorer than those three countries, 40 years ago.
And those three Chinese states had the geographic fortune to be located
to close to ports of China. Hong Kong, Taiwan, Singapore had the
Canton free economic zone, while Korea had Dalian? Hong Kong and
Singapore are prosperous tiny city states who will prosper but nothing
much else. Korea on the other hand, had much bigger ambition - to be
just as good as Japan.
COnsidering all that, I would say without Chaebol, Korea today would be
similiar to Thailand.
OK.I'm not saying Chaebol is god, but I'm saying at that time 25 years
ago, Korea had no choice but to choose few companies, and give them the
easy credits. Simply because all the money was borrowed from abroad and
there was precious few of it going around, without diluting the
development effort. Hey, if Korea was always rich like the USA full of
cash, wouldn't we be singing a different tune today. The trouble with
Chaebol, it grew and grew and no-one was able to reign it in without
hurting the Korean economy, because it WAS the Korean economy.
Now you're saying get rid of the Chaebol, but you forget that Chaebol
IS the Korean economy, and to get rid of it, you destory the Korean
economy.
I only guessing but you seem to romanticize the idea of
>foreign investors (IMF led) sending overpaid Korean laborers into the
>fields to dig with their barehands. Get real. Do you think Korea today would
>still be filled with Rice farmers and shirt makers drinking Makkolli after a
>14 hours a day, all spread out on the bare ground?-- Maybe with patronizing
>Americans or Japanese visitors giving them their lack of development
>headshakes and mumbles of pity. Would Seoul still be a city of mud and
>concrete huts?
Well my answer to that is, just look at Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia.
Because Korea today would be like South East Asia, poorer but still
needing the IMF.
If anybody has insecurity about what people can do (Korean or
>foreign), I think it's you. Sarangieyo LG. I think it is time to let the
>patriotic attachments to the Chaebol go.
>
Haha.. don't worry about me buddy. Korea is destined to be a dominant
force in Asia and a world economic superpower in the comming years,
in probably around 2020, IMF or no IMF. This is just a blip on the
radar. Some of all those high-tech investments and R&D will pay off
big someday.
CHUCKY
In article <348e989...@snews.zippo.com>, S...@abnormal.com says...
>
>On Wed, 10 Dec 1997 18:58:07 +0900, trevor gulliver
>
>>
>
>>Until Hakwon owners are legally bound to hire only teachers with a TESOL
>>certificate -- not an English Literature major but a Teacher of English
>>to Speakers of Other Languages.
>
>teachers come from all walks of life. I have seen many so called
>"TESOL" teachers fall flat on their face. Teaching requires many
>intangible skills such as presentation, imagination, sense of humour,
>patience, and social skills. I'll put my academic and professional
>qualifications to the test against any "TESOL" teacher anytime .
>
This is what Koreans should have done in the beginning:
1) hagwons should have required to strictly abide by government
regulations and education standards of high quality and licensing.
2) only hire highly experienced, Masters graduates in English teaching.
3) then give these guys super dollars to attract them and keep them,
and make sure you protect their labour rights.
4) shut down all those fly by night hagwons that give Korea such a bad
name thorughout the world.
CHUCKY
In article <66nh66$10g$1...@news.nuri.net>, "Daniel says...
>>since there is no work for them anymore, there's no sense wasting
>>their time.
>
>American school in Korea where most teachers are foreigners. I heard that
>80% of them are leaving after this year. Our junior class won't be able
>to get any teacher recommendation and because of korean won devaluation,
>the tuition will rise by 50% or something like that. I don't know how our
>school will get teachers anyways.
DOn't worry, with a 50% rise of tuition, there won't be any students
left to teach anyways.
Also my sister has to go to college next
>year, which now seems quite difficult to pay.
>
See? I told you.
Joel
On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, AARON M URE wrote:
> So just a question are the days of making a killing in English over for
a
> while. Seems like Koreans would be hesitant to pay English teachers the
> big bucks. Glad I got out. If anyone is in Korea or knows more about it
> please post a message. I guess the hawkkwang owners really have a good
> excuse now not to pay.
>
I work for the Korean Government. Guess what, even THEY haven't paid
me! They are 3 weeks late! I am one week away from making a huge sign
(Korea should pay its foreign workers) and forming my own demo. I'm not
fucking kidding. They can throw my ass in jail. This is bullshit.
regards,
Joel
http://nimbus.ocis.temple.edu/~jhurewit
http://www.metro.seoul.kr
CHUCKY
In article <Pine.OSF.3.91.971210...@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu>,
Joel says...
>
>On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, AARON M URE wrote:
>
>> So just a question are the days of making a killing in English over for
>a
>> while. Seems like Koreans would be hesitant to pay English teachers the
>> big bucks. Glad I got out. If anyone is in Korea or knows more about it
>> please post a message. I guess the hawkkwang owners really have a good
>> excuse now not to pay.
>>
> I work for the Korean Government. Guess what, even THEY haven't paid
>me! They are 3 weeks late! I am one week away from making a huge sign
>(Korea should pay its foreign workers) and forming my own demo. I'm not
>fucking kidding. They can throw my ass in jail. This is bullshit.
>
And also all those Koreans who are going to be thrown out of work,
they're going to stage massive sit-in/riot. But I got news for you,
welcome to the world of a bankrupt government/country. You have to
suffer like the rest of the people in Korea. No kidding.
truculent kim
Where does Chucky Live?
truculent kim
Where does CHUNKY live?
Daniel Kang
CHUCKY wrote in message <3485CF...@istar.ca>...
>I think all the foreigners working in Korea should go home as well,
>since there is no work for them anymore, there's no sense wasting
>their time.
They are trying to go back home and that troubles me so much. I go to an
American school in Korea where most teachers are foreigners. I heard that
80% of them are leaving after this year. Our junior class won't be able
to get any teacher recommendation and because of korean won devaluation,
the tuition will rise by 50% or something like that. I don't know how our
school will get teachers anyways. Also my sister has to go to college next
year, which now seems quite difficult to pay.
Now 1 dollar > 1600 won
Regards,
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
Daniel Kang - An 11th grader at SIS (Seoul International School)
who's interested in getting into college after completing junior
year
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
My return address has been set invalid because of an increasing
number of unwanted junk mails. Please take out a period between
dan and kang. Thanks.
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
Visit Model World Government page at
http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Lobby/2547/
Daniel Kang
Just heard on the news that 1 dollar is now more than 1700won
William John Sowa
In article <66ncl9$q...@drn.zippo.com>, <CHUCKY> wrote:
>In article <66m0dv$d97$1...@news2.dacom.co.kr>, "TCE" says...
>
>>foreign), I think it's you. Sarangieyo LG. I think it is time to let the
>>patriotic attachments to the Chaebol go.
Wait a second chamkanman! Let me speak on behalf of the waygook blue
collar workers and the waygook engineers and management that the Korean
chaebol graciously hired and employed throughout the world. Before you
continue singing the Korean Blues about how bad the chaebol are for
Korea, I think I should stand up and defend American jobs at Korean
companies! This is 1998 (almost) and I wish I had the figure to quote,
but Korean companies have given Americans a hell of a lot of jobs right
here in the USA, as well as other foreigners in other countries. Remember,
Korea is globalized already, like it or not, the chaebol are kicking ass
in countries all throughout the world, and while the situation may be
grim for Korean blue collar workers in Korea, the situation may be the
opposite for some Canadian assembly line worker building Sonatas in
Canada, or some American microelectronic circuit technician in Texas at
the multi-million-dollar Samsung facility or the Goldstar plant in
Alabama or the Hyundai America Center in California or the Samsung
Headquarters in Fort Lee New Jersey, etc.... The chaebol created jobs
and put food on the table of many blue collar Americans' tables, as
well as Saudi Arabia and England, and Poland, and Lithuania, and
Mexico, etc....
>Haha.. don't worry about me buddy. Korea is destined to be a dominant
>force in Asia and a world economic superpower in the comming years,
>in probably around 2020, IMF or no IMF. This is just a blip on the
>radar. Some of all those high-tech investments and R&D will pay off
>big someday.
Well, before the economic crash, they already were starting to build
up speed right here in USA.
Economic Globalization Group (EGG)
William John Sowa
Sorry to rain on your parade, but you guys will NEVER stop the illegal
private tutoring of Koreans in the living rooms of Koreans' apartments.
I don't care how hot shot of a teacher you are, a Western tourist will
always be able to go to Korea, get approached on the street to private
tutor someone, and make secret big won in the living room of a Korean
apartment behind closed doors. Sad reality if the Korean kids can't
make one sentence in English after the "tourist teacher" leaves the
country.
Economic Globalization Group (EGG)
SA
On 11 Dec 1997 06:01:09 GMT, ws...@engin.umich.edu (William John Sowa)
wrote:
>
>Sorry to rain on your parade, but you guys will NEVER stop the illegal
>private tutoring of Koreans in the living rooms of Koreans' apartments.
>I don't care how hot shot of a teacher you are, a Western tourist will
>always be able to go to Korea, get approached on the street to private
>tutor someone, and make secret big won in the living room of a Korean
>apartment behind closed doors. Sad reality if the Korean kids can't
>make one sentence in English after the "tourist teacher" leaves the
>country.
>
>Economic Globalization Group (EGG)
>
>
Yes I whole heartedly agree. We so-called teachers tend to over
emphasize our importance. However, I believe the problem lies somewhat
with the students. Koreans are of a belonging nature. They love
university clubs, membership training, etc..Koreans study English for
many reasons, the least being able to speak English. Just telling
their friends they are studying English (whether they attend classes
or not) stirs a certain amount of awe. But most students come to class
to find girl/boy friends or social interaction. Their lives are
pathetically mundane and English classes provide some entertainment to
an otherwise dull existence.
SA
On 10 Dec 1997 16:58:55 -0800, CHUCKY wrote:
>2) only hire highly experienced, Masters graduates in English teaching.
>
Ridiculous - why stop at Master's degrees. Why not PhD. graduates if
we are to follow your logic ? It is next to impossible to teach at any
Canadian University without a PhD !
SA
trevor gulliver
SA wrote:
> On Wed, 10 Dec 1997 18:58:07 +0900, trevor gulliver
> <cana...@mail.hitel.net> wrote:
>
>
> >Until Hakwon owners are legally bound to hire only teachers with a
> TESOL
> >certificate -- not an English Literature major but a Teacher of
> English
> >to Speakers of Other Languages.
>
> This is pure bollocks ! Language is an art NOT a science. Good
> teachers come from all walks of life. I have seen many so called
> "TESOL" teachers fall flat on their face. Teaching requires many
> intangible skills such as presentation, imagination, sense of humour,
> patience, and social skills. I'll put my academic and professional
> qualifications to the test against any "TESOL" teacher anytime .
I regret having written the word "only". You're absolutely right that a
TESOL certificate doesn't guarantee that one is a good teacher only a
"qualified" one. I was responding to a Korean who was frustrated that
3/4 of the English "Teachers" who had taught him or her were not
qualified to teach. This situation will continue as long as Hakwon
owners are allowed to hire people like myself who haven't any
qualifications to teach other than having a Bachelor of Arts. Hakwon
owners will continue to hire "unqualified" teachers as long as it is
expedient for them to do so. To the writer who asked for how long
non-teachers will continue to teach the answer is as long as Hakwons are
allowed to hire non-teachers to teach. The question then becomes what
makes a "teacher" and how does one measure that? I agree that teaching
requires "presentation, imagination, a sense of humour, patience, and
social skills". As you have said these are intangible and cannot be
measured. By what standards then can we measure a teacher? Or, do you
think that the Hakwons should be allowed to hire anyone "who has only
the skill of speaking English?" This is what the writer was complaining
about.
So I revise my statement. "Non-teachers" will continue to teach in
Hakwons until Hakwon owners are legally bound to hire teachers with *at
least* a TESOL certificate (which only takes a couple weeks to
achieve) or other teaching qualification, and/or relevant work
experience. A degree in English Literature may impress the students but
it is no more a teaching qualification than a degree in Sociology is a
teaching qualifications.
William John Sowa
SA <S...@abnormal.com> wrote:
>
>Yes I whole heartedly agree. We so-called teachers tend to over
>emphasize our importance. However, I believe the problem lies somewhat
>with the students. Koreans are of a belonging nature. They love
>university clubs, membership training, etc..Koreans study English for
>many reasons, the least being able to speak English. Just telling
>their friends they are studying English (whether they attend classes
>or not) stirs a certain amount of awe. But most students come to class
>to find girl/boy friends or social interaction. Their lives are
>pathetically mundane and English classes provide some entertainment to
>an otherwise dull existence.
I will agree with you that few Koreans want to learn English in order
to develop some interactive relationship with English speaking foreigners.
My opinion is from teaching DaeWoo executives who are visiting USA
for business seminars. They told me that every year DaeWoo gives an
exam for promotion based on English ability. They confided in me that
if they could speak English well, they would score well on the promotion
exam and receive a substantial position and salary increase. You know,
there is something wrong with learning English in order to get more
money, it is not "natural", don't you think? In my experience, the
Koreans who spoke English well were usually English Majors or Linguistics
Majors, because they had a "love of English" and, sometimes, Western
culture. They wanted to speak English because they wanted to remove
themselves from Asian society, albeit temporarily, in order to fully
experience another culture different from their own. Likewise, the only
Americans that I see learning Korean are those Americans who truly love
Korean culture and enjoy living in Korea, and meeting and talking to
Koreans (not just picking up Korean girls).
I draw the conclusion that the most efficient method of learning a foreign
language is to develop a desire inside your heart, to learn that language
and inundate yourself in the culture of that language, and a desire to
meet and speak and develop interactive relationships with natural speakers
of that language. Any "superficial learning interest" of a foreign
language won't develop into any comfortable level of fluency, don't you
think ???
----------
Economic Globalization Group (EGG)
SA
A 3-4 week TESOL certificate makes you a "qualified" teacher ?
I reiterate - English language acquisition is more than a sum of its
parts. Language does not operate in a vacuum. It is the stuff of life.
And as such it should be taught by people of different academic and
professional backgrounds. I teach everything from business skills to
computer science to general conversation. Most English majors (or
TESOL teachers for that matter) could not deliver this type of
curriculum.
There are places for English, Law, Engineering, Commerce, and
Sociology majors in the sphere of language teaching. They are just
different places with different students !
Respectively,
SA
Hati Choi
On Thu, 11 Dec 1997 07:02:39 GMT, S...@abnormal.com (SA) wrote:
However, I believe the problem lies somewhat
>with the students. Koreans are of a belonging nature. They love
>university clubs, membership training, etc..Koreans study English for
>many reasons, the least being able to speak English. Just telling
>their friends they are studying English (whether they attend classes
>or not) stirs a certain amount of awe. But most students come to class
>to find girl/boy friends or social interaction. Their lives are
>pathetically mundane and English classes provide some entertainment to
>an otherwise dull existence.
You are pointing something true.
But.. what's the deal? If they feel good because they think they're
learning sth and baost of it a little, what do they harm?
And why can't the class become a place for social interaction if there
are good people whom they want to associate with?
Are you guy's life full of exiting? Never feel empty?
Anyway, I want to make it clear that the major purpose of the Korean
students' coming to class is *learning English*. They don't know if it
is necessary in their real life, but they feel a lot of pressure that
they *must* speak the language.
One more thing, the Koreans going to English institutes are very very
small part of the whole nation.
Hati Choi
I was responding to a Korean who was frustrated that
>3/4 of the English "Teachers" who had taught him or her were not
>qualified to teach.
You are right. I'm frustrated... As I think we Koreans are regarded
*bong*(dupe) for the *native* speakers who just want to pay back their
huge university loans with the money they can easily get compared
with other countries. For them the decline of won's value would be
very tuff. I wonder they at least try to know what the students feel
about them. And I'm 'her'.
the Hakwons should be allowed to hire anyone "who has only
>the skill of speaking English?" This is what the writer was complaining
>about.
Right. The Hakwons were the beginning of the problem. Or the Korean
inefficient Edu system. Yap, we Koreans dug our graves by ourselves.
And we are the people who can correct it.
But I still want the teachers to be more humble. Regardless of your
purpose, when you step into a 'teaching' world... try to get following
teaching requirements.
"presentation, imagination, a sense of humour, patience, and
>social skills".
And don't make the students frustrated.
I'm gonna post about the types of Eng teachers making me frustrated.
Joel
On 11 Dec 1997 CHUCKY@.MISSING-HOST-NAME. wrote:
> In article <348F90...@inet.att.co.kr>, truculent says...
> >
> >CHUCKY wrote:
> >>
> >> In article <Pine.OSF.3.91.971210...@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu>,
> >> Joel says...
> >> >
> >>> I work for the Korean Government. Guess what, even THEY haven't paid
> >> >me! They are 3 weeks late! I am one week away from making a huge sign
> >> >(Korea should pay its foreign workers) and forming my own demo. I'm not
> >> >fucking kidding. They can throw my ass in jail. This is bullshit.
> >> >
> >>
> >> And also all those Koreans who are going to be thrown out of work,
> >> they're going to stage massive sit-in/riot. But I got news for you,
> >> welcome to the world of a bankrupt government/country. You have to
> >> suffer like the rest of the people in Korea. No kidding.
> >
> >
> >Where does Chucky Live?
> >
>
> Ah.. but my grasshoppa, I'm not the one who's complaining.
>
>
My not getting paid has NOTHING to do with the economy. It has ONLY
to do with the fact that I am a foreigner (read: cheatable). EVERY other
person in this office has gotten paid. I don't want to sound like AETACK
and bitch about corrupt Koreans, but I had a contract for X amount and my
then I find out I will be receiving 1/2X. I haven't even received that.
Erwan Le Roy
hello,
Could you tell me which textbook is very efficient for foreigner who
want to learn korea.
Actually, I learn with the volums from the Language Research Institute
of Seoul National University, but there is no translation in english,
and the korean people can not explain to me.
Daniel Donghoon Paik
In article <Pine.OSF.3.91.971211...@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu>,
Joel <jhur...@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu> wrote:
> My not getting paid has NOTHING to do with the economy. It has ONLY
>to do with the fact that I am a foreigner (read: cheatable). EVERY other
>person in this office has gotten paid. I don't want to sound like AETACK
>and bitch about corrupt Koreans, but I had a contract for X amount and my
>then I find out I will be receiving 1/2X. I haven't even received that.
my friend was in korea a few summers ago working at micro$oft. they
basically told him he would get paid X/month and then they told him he
would be getting 1/5X when he got there.
i'm not sure if he had the original contract in writing but he threatened
to sue them, notify the US embassy, etc....and so they paid him.
if you have it in writing, perhaps there are similar worst case
alternatives that you can take.
Dan.
--
--------------------------------------
Daniel Paik
http://www.hanguk.com/uctt
hey, go check out http://www.hanguk.com!
Claude E. Hunter
Try the three set of books by Francis Y. T. Park called Speaking
Korean I, II, & III. They are not bad.
AETACK
Joel <jhur...@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu> wrote:
> My not getting paid has NOTHING to do with the economy. It has ONLY
>to do with the fact that I am a foreigner (read: cheatable). EVERY other
>person in this office has gotten paid. I don't want to sound like AETACK
>and bitch about corrupt Koreans, but I had a contract for X amount and my
>then I find out I will be receiving 1/2X. I haven't even received that.
From AETACK
If you are not bitching about corrupt Koreans, what are you doing? Those lousy
Korean creeps have brought their whole country to ruin. And they will try to
cheat the IMF too. Wait and see.
Trevor Gulliver
CHUCKY wrote:
> Oh great, now Trucculent Kim will now accuse me of being AETACK as
> well.
> Hey, AETACK, are you the one who's been forging me as Free Thinker?
Well, Chucky, he did spell harbour with an "our". Who is this new
AETACK? We'll soon see! The dastardly fiends continue to besiege the
newsgroup with their dopplegangers and ... oh, shit I thought I was Lord
Stormwynd for a second there.
<His mighty lordship departs the castle shaking his head at this
strange, new voice which had overcome him.>
TG.
CHUCKY
In article <34A626F8...@mail.hitel.net>, Trevor says...
>
>CHUCKY wrote:
>
>> Oh great, now Trucculent Kim will now accuse me of being AETACK as
>> well.
>> Hey, AETACK, are you the one who's been forging me as Free Thinker?
>
>Well, Chucky, he did spell harbour with an "our". Who is this new
>AETACK? We'll soon see!
Maybe AETACK is you, who knows?
Talkyal
>Joel <jhur...@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu> wrote:
>> My not getting paid has NOTHING to do with the economy. It >>has ONLY to do
with the fact that I am a foreigner (read: >>cheatable). EVERY other person in
this office has gotten paid. >>I don't want to sound like AETACK and bitch
about corrupt >>Koreans, but I had a contract for X amount and my then I find
>>out I will be receiving 1/2X. I haven't even received that.
즈올, 걱정하지마! 내일 내가 D.J.로 연락 해서 즈올의
월급을 주라고 명령할거야.
자, 지금 외국인들이 한국을 소유해서 할 수 있군야!!!
달걀 (한글로 코메디 회)
TCE
Talkyal wrote in message
>즈올, 걱정하지마! 내일 내가 D.J.로 연락 해서 즈올의
>월급을 주라고 명령할거야.
>자, 지금 외국인들이 한국을 소유해서 할 수 있군야!!!
I think foreigner investors don't want to get entangled in the Korea crises
just yet. Several foreign OWNED businesses operating in Korea have had
horrendous experiences with Korean staff. I think foreigners will walk in
with big money only when Korea starts looking like Singapore or HongKong.
However, Joel should worry because he was probably lied to by people who
want to make money off the patience of foreigners and Koreans.
Joel
You're growing on me SOWA. My feelings toward you fluctuate a
lot. You've reached a peak, don't start talking about Confucianism and
ruin it. I'm glad you got Korean fonts, show us what you're made of.
regards,
Joel
"Çѱ¹ ¾Ë¸®´Â Àüµµ»ç µÉ·¡¿ä" ±¹¹ÎÀϺ¸ (1997/12/19)
http://nimbus.temple.edu/~jhurewit
http://www.metro.seoul.kr
On 29 Dec 1997, Talkyal wrote:
> >Joel <jhur...@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu> wrote:
> >> My not getting paid has NOTHING to do with the economy. It >>has ONLY to do
> with the fact that I am a foreigner (read: >>cheatable). EVERY other person in
> this office has gotten paid. >>I don't want to sound like AETACK and bitch
> about corrupt >>Koreans, but I had a contract for X amount and my then I find
> >>out I will be receiving 1/2X. I haven't even received that.
>
> Áî¿Ã, °ÆÁ¤ÇÏÁö¸¶! ³»ÀÏ ³»°¡ D.J.·Î ¿¬¶ô Çؼ Áî¿ÃÀÇ
> ¿ù±ÞÀ» ÁÖ¶ó°í ¸í·ÉÇҰžß.
> ÀÚ, Áö±Ý ¿Ü±¹ÀεéÀÌ Çѱ¹À» ¼ÒÀ¯Çؼ ÇÒ ¼ö ÀÖ±º¾ß!!!
>
> ´Þ°¿ (Çѱ۷ΠÄÚ¸Þµð ȸ)
>
>
>
>
AETACK
EAT DIRT KOREA!!!It is time to pay for your crimes against English
teachers from America and other countries, and your cruelty and abuse of
all foreign workers who have had the misfortune of working for some
greedy, mean and unkind Koreans.EAT DIRT KOREA!!!You deserve it, for
your bragging and mistreatment of women, your stupidity and xenophobia,
your greed and stealing, lying and falserepresentation, your broken
promises and rotten worthless contracts!EAT DIRT KOREA!!!!And you will
not learn, even from your upcoming pain, because you are too stubborn,
selfish and narrow-minded. It is your Korean culture that breeds this
ethical depravity. You say, "When in Rome, do as the Romans do." But
Korea is not Rome. It has no gradeur, no civilization of value. Korea l
ays dead in its own history and only presents a false and phoney image
with no substance behind it to the world which it wants to sell to
tourists. Right now, some Koreans are planning how to cheat the IMF out
of its repayment and to avoid keeping its obligations. Watch how the
scheming and self-righteousness Korea tries to avoid repayment of its
debts. Why would Korea keep it's promises to the IMF when many will not
keep promises to American and Canadian citizens who are teaching
English.STOP CHEATING AMERICAN ENGLISH TEACHERS!!! STOP YOUR LIES AND
MISTREATMENT OF FOREIGN WORKERS. Korea, You have too many cruel dirty
people who have no sense of honesty and have dragged down the whole
nation. You derserve it. You lousy creeps!!AETACK
Trevor Gulliver
AETACK wrote:
> EAT DIRT KOREA!!!It is time to pay for your crimes against English
> teachers from America and other countries, and your cruelty and abuse
> of
> all foreign workers who have had the misfortune of working for some
> greedy, mean and unkind Koreans.
And when is the time to be rewarded for their kindness to English
teachers from Canada and other countries, and their friendship and
welcome to foreign workers who have had the good fortune to work with
generous, warm-hearted and kind Koreans?
> EAT DIRT KOREA!!!You deserve it, for
> your bragging and mistreatment of women, your stupidity and
> xenophobia,
> your greed and stealing, lying and falserepresentation, your broken
> promises and rotten worthless contracts!
Perhaps the reason your experience has been so spectacularly terrible is
your attitude. I've found many teachers (dare I say it? especially
Americans) have an inability to adjust to the social behaviour required
to succeed within Korean companies.
> EAT DIRT KOREA!!!!And you will
> not learn, even from your upcoming pain, because you are too stubborn,
>
> selfish and narrow-minded.
And these teachers are too stubborn to learn from experience that
attacking their employers and taking their anger out on their students
doesn't improve their situation.
> It is your Korean culture that breeds this
> ethical depravity. You say, "When in Rome, do as the Romans do."
Actually, I've never heard a Korean get that expression right. It always
comes out like: "When in Roman do Rome does." But I guess that's why
patient, gentle teachers are needed.
> But
> Korea is not Rome. It has no gradeur, no civilization of value.
As opposed to American civilization (oops, there's an oxymoron).
> Korea l
> ays dead in its own history and only presents a false and phoney image
>
> with no substance behind it to the world which it wants to sell to
> tourists.
Korea deserves credit for not selling out their culture for tourists. It
would be a lot easier to bring in tourists if Koreans weren't so intent
on preserving their ethical and cultural integrity.
> Right now, some Koreans are planning how to cheat the IMF out
> of its repayment and to avoid keeping its obligations. Watch how the
> scheming and self-righteousness Korea tries to avoid repayment of its
> debts. Why would Korea keep it's promises to the IMF when many will
> not
> keep promises to American and Canadian citizens who are teaching
> English.
There's a big difference between the Korea and some of the nastier
won-jang-nim which many teachers have the misfortune of encountering.
> STOP CHEATING AMERICAN ENGLISH TEACHERS!!! STOP YOUR LIES AND
> MISTREATMENT OF FOREIGN WORKERS. Korea, You have too many cruel dirty
> people who have no sense of honesty and have dragged down the whole
> nation. You derserve it. You lousy creeps!!AETACK
When are you going to get over your bitterness AETACK? When are you
going to stop attacking an entire country for the actions of a handful
of people? You've been cheated and lied to, I understand. Shit happens.
It happens to me but I never let it get me bitter. In the end I always
come out on top. I make good money here and am given lots of friendship
and respect.
You're an ugly and contemptible little rat.
TG
William John Sowa
Joel <jhur...@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu> wrote:
>You're growing on me SOWA. My feelings toward you fluctuate a=20
>lot. You've reached a peak, don't start talking about Confucianism and=20
>ruin it. I'm glad you got Korean fonts, show us what you're made of.
Kiss my ass, Hurewitz.
How's that???
EGG
Joel A. Hurewitz
Yo man, why you gotta be so hostile SOWA? I was trying to be
nice. I appreciate the "Z" on the end of my name though. Most of my
email acquaintances don't know it exists.