I insist that the so-called Chinese character was probably invented and developed by Korean, although the populous Chinese also have used it as their basic writing systems. I believe the number of population of any ethnic group should not be a factor that obscures the origin. I explain some evidences.
1. The original pictographs called 'gab-gol' (bone and shell) or 'bok-sa' in Korean were certainly invented during the Yin dynasty (or Shang state, BC 1600~BC 1046), although it is uncertain who was the inventor. There is no dispute regarding this matter between Korean and Chinese historians. There are ample recent evidences that the dominant people of the Yin dynasty was Korean, which some Chinese historians also acknowledge.
2. Among countries that adopted Chinese character, only Koreans use exactly one syllable for one character. Chinese or Japanese used one or more syllables for one character. A good example is the sounds denoting the numbers. Only Koreans use just one syllable for one number. So, it is very easy for Koreans to say any complex numbers quickly.
For another example, the sound for 'white' in Chinese character in 'baek' (one syllable) in Korean but 'bai' (two syllable) in Chinese. Regarding the character denoting 'head', it is 'doo' in Korean but 'tou' in Chinese. On the other hand, it is the same for the character denoting 'mountain' - 'shan' in both Korean and Chinese.
Why have Koreans used only one syllable for one character, but Chinese one or more syllables? It certainly shows that Chinese pronunciation system is a variant from Korean counterpart.
3. Some basic pictographs reflect Korean life-style and customs.
For example, the character denoting 'house' (ga in Korean) contains a character denoting a pig (hog) in the lower part. In the house, people live, not a pig live. Why did they adopt a pig to denote a house? Only Koreans raised pigs within their house.
Another example is the character denoting 'sun'. The character contains a dot within a rectangle. Why did they contain the dot, seemingly unnecessarily? The dot denotes a golden crow. Only Koreans had the legend linking the sun to the golden crow.
Additional example is the character denoting 'surname' (ssi in Korean). In Chinese, the character denotes only 'surname' while it denotes both 'surname' and 'seed' in Korean. 'Ssi' is a most common word in Korean and compares the pedigree with the tree (i.e., the seed is a common symbol for the original ancestor whose trace has been handed down by his surname).
4. Korean history book describes the origin of written systems, which is inscribed in dolmens in Korea.
A Korean history book called Chun-bu-gyung records the origin of both current Chinese character and Korean alphabet (hangul). Chinese character is a kind of pictograph + ideograph, while hangul is the most advanced of phonogram + ideogram in the world. Bone and shell inscriptions were a pictograph, while hexagrams of I-ching invented by Fu Xi (Bokhwi in Korean) are a kind of ideogram. The original character for both Chinese character and hangul was 'Nok-doo-mun' (the most ancient writing system), according to the Chun-bu-gyung. Currently, only Koreans still play a game called 'Yout', which is believed to be very similar to the 'Nok-doo-mun'. The principles of Yout game are essentially the same as I-Ching. Moreover, in Korea and Manchuria, currently there are many ancient rocks (dolmen) in which various kinds of primitive writings are inscribed (see some pictures at http://myhome.shinbiro.com/~kbyon/culture/rokdo.htm)
Based on these four facts, I strongly argue that the Chinese character was originated and developed by Koreans. The differences in pronunciation system for numbers between Chinese and Korean clearly indicates it's Korean origin.
--- Footnote
I add my message on Fu Xi and I-Ching. Fu Xi (or Bokhwi in Korean) is one of the candidates for the inventor of Chinese characters.
Han and 'I Ching'
The hexagrams of the I Ching were said to have been created by the legendary emperor 'Fu Xi' after he had contemplated on a diagram called Ha Do that was bestowed from the Heaven. Han scholars rewrote many myths as fact to fill gaps in early Chinese history. Fu Xi was declared to have been the very first emperor, ruling from 2852 to 2737 BC. He was said to have been the inventor of musical instruments and Chinese handwriting [1].
Chinese legend says that Fu Xi is the most senior one among the three ancestors. Together with N-Wa, the women who he married with, they started the civilization of human being. The current Fu Xi's Temple in Shandong was built on a 6-meter high terrace. In the main hall, Fu Xi's state was placed and sacrifices are given. And in the back of the hall, N-Wa's statue was placed [2].
It is said that the upper body of Fu Xi is that of a human being while his lower body is in the form of a snake. Inferring from the scientific nature of the I Ching, it may just be possible that Fu Xi was an extraterrestrial. If Fu Xi was indeed the first ancestor of Chinese, then how could the descendents describe their first ancestor as a monster? Why did ancient Chinese historians initially consider Fu Xi as just a legend? Ancient Chinese call their neighboring people as "bugs" or"barbarians". The monster portrait suggests that Fu Xi might have been from a neighboring country, not Chinese countries. What was that country?
"Fu Xi came from the nationality called East Yi dwelling in the Neolithic Age, along the coastal area of the present-day Shandong Province and, therefore, Fu Xi turned out to have come from Shandong Province" (quoted from a Chinese site [4])
What was "East Yi"? Of course, "Yi" means "barbarians" in Chinese. Most Koreans know what is "Dong (east) Yi". People in 'East Yi' are known to have been very good at archery, as Korean Olympic archery teams are today. The Chinese character "Yi" indeed symbolize the shape of a big bow. Surprisingly. the recently discovered Korean history text titled "Han Dan Go Gi" describes the life of "Fu Xi" (Bokhwi in Korean) [3].
It writes that he was the son of the 5-th emperor of the Baedal (B.C.3898- BC 2333) and his surname was "Pung" as he lived in "Pung-san". Although the surname "Pung" no longer exists in Korean names, some related words survived to today such as "Pung-chae" "Pung-gol" and"Pung-shin", all of which are terms for describing human body shape. Another daughter name was "Yeo-wa" (N-Wa in Chinese) [3].
It writes that she was known to have a magical talent to make a human being from mud and to be extremely jealous (these two points, together with the sound, might may remind you of Jehovah) [5].
Unfortunately only a few Korean scholars in universities accept "Han Dan Go Gi" as a history book, insisting that the book was fabricated in some points. Some Koreans, while acknowledging that a few points might have been fabricated while copying, decry the university historians as too much contaminated by Japanese colonial view of history that tried to disparage Korean history in the 1910-1945 period, as they deny whole text book. Anyway, East Yi was located in Shandong Province...... What does this mean? I would rather stop here for today. But the point is that it will not be awkward that I link "I Ching" to Han.
http://www.xsenergy.com/theme.html "Yi is known by a variety of names: The East Barbarian, Yi the Good, Lord Yi, and Yi Lord of the Hsia. As a result of this ambiguity, Yi is seen both as a hero who is favored by the Gods as well as a villain, murderer, usurper and adulterer. In this myth Yi is the hero as he shoots the Ten Suns to avert disaster."
> I insist that the so-called Chinese character was probably invented and > developed by Korean, although the populous Chinese also have used it as > their basic writing systems. I believe the number of population of any > ethnic group should not be a factor that obscures the origin. I explain some > evidences.
> 1. The original pictographs called 'gab-gol' (bone and shell) or 'bok-sa' in > Korean were certainly invented during the Yin dynasty (or Shang state, BC > 1600~BC 1046), although it is uncertain who was the inventor. There is no > dispute regarding this matter between Korean and Chinese historians. There > are ample recent evidences that the dominant people of the Yin dynasty was > Korean, which some Chinese historians also acknowledge.
> 2. Among countries that adopted Chinese character, only Koreans use exactly > one syllable for one character. Chinese or Japanese used one or more > syllables for one character. A good example is the sounds denoting the > numbers. Only Koreans use just one syllable for one number. So, it is very > easy for Koreans to say any complex numbers quickly.
> For another example, the sound for 'white' in Chinese character in 'baek' > (one syllable) in Korean but 'bai' (two syllable) in Chinese. Regarding the > character denoting 'head', it is 'doo' in Korean but 'tou' in Chinese. On > the other hand, it is the same for the character denoting 'mountain' - > 'shan' in both Korean and Chinese.
> Why have Koreans used only one syllable for one character, but Chinese one > or more syllables? It certainly shows that Chinese pronunciation system is a > variant from Korean counterpart.
> 3. Some basic pictographs reflect Korean life-style and customs.
> For example, the character denoting 'house' (ga in Korean) contains a > character denoting a pig (hog) in the lower part. In the house, people live, > not a pig live. Why did they adopt a pig to denote a house? Only Koreans > raised pigs within their house.
> Another example is the character denoting 'sun'. The character contains a > dot within a rectangle. Why did they contain the dot, seemingly > unnecessarily? The dot denotes a golden crow. Only Koreans had the legend > linking the sun to the golden crow.
> Additional example is the character denoting 'surname' (ssi in Korean). In > Chinese, the character denotes only 'surname' while it denotes both > 'surname' and 'seed' in Korean. 'Ssi' is a most common word in Korean and > compares the pedigree with the tree (i.e., the seed is a common symbol for > the original ancestor whose trace has been handed down by his surname).
> 4. Korean history book describes the origin of written systems, which is > inscribed in dolmens in Korea.
> A Korean history book called Chun-bu-gyung records the origin of both > current Chinese character and Korean alphabet (hangul). Chinese character is > a kind of pictograph + ideograph, while hangul is the most advanced of > phonogram + ideogram in the world. Bone and shell inscriptions were a > pictograph, while hexagrams of I-ching invented by Fu Xi (Bokhwi in Korean) > are a kind of ideogram. The original character for both Chinese character > and hangul was 'Nok-doo-mun' (the most ancient writing system), according to > the Chun-bu-gyung. Currently, only Koreans still play a game called 'Yout', > which is believed to be very similar to the 'Nok-doo-mun'. The principles of > Yout game are essentially the same as I-Ching. Moreover, in Korea and > Manchuria, currently there are many ancient rocks (dolmen) in which various > kinds of primitive writings are inscribed (see some pictures at > http://myhome.shinbiro.com/~kbyon/culture/rokdo.htm)
> Based on these four facts, I strongly argue that the Chinese character was > originated and developed by Koreans. The differences in pronunciation system > for numbers between Chinese and Korean clearly indicates it's Korean origin.
> --- Footnote
> I add my message on Fu Xi and I-Ching. Fu Xi (or Bokhwi in Korean) is one of > the candidates for the inventor of Chinese characters.
> Han and 'I Ching'
> The hexagrams of the I Ching were said to have been created by the > legendary emperor 'Fu Xi' after he had contemplated on a diagram > called Ha Do that was bestowed from the Heaven. Han scholars rewrote > many myths as fact to fill gaps in early Chinese history. Fu Xi was > declared to have been the very first emperor, ruling from 2852 to 2737 > BC. He was said to have been the inventor of musical instruments and > Chinese handwriting [1].
> Chinese legend says that Fu Xi is the most senior one among the three > ancestors. Together with N-Wa, the women who he married with, they > started the civilization of human being. The current Fu Xi's Temple in > Shandong was built on a 6-meter high terrace. In the main hall, Fu > Xi's state was placed and sacrifices are given. And in the back of the > hall, N-Wa's statue was placed [2].
> It is said that the upper body of Fu Xi is that of a human being while > his lower body is in the form of a snake. Inferring from the > scientific nature of the I Ching, it may just be possible that Fu Xi > was an extraterrestrial. If Fu Xi was indeed the first ancestor of > Chinese, then how could the descendents describe their first ancestor > as a monster? Why did ancient Chinese historians initially consider Fu > Xi as just a legend? Ancient Chinese call their neighboring people as > "bugs" or"barbarians". The monster portrait suggests that Fu Xi might > have been from a neighboring country, not Chinese countries. What was > that country?
> "Fu Xi came from the nationality called East Yi dwelling in the > Neolithic Age, along the coastal area of the present-day Shandong > Province and, therefore, Fu Xi turned out to have come from Shandong > Province" (quoted from a Chinese site [4])
> What was "East Yi"? Of course, "Yi" means "barbarians" in Chinese. > Most Koreans know what is "Dong (east) Yi". People in 'East Yi' are > known to have been very good at archery, as Korean Olympic archery > teams are today. The Chinese character "Yi" indeed symbolize the > shape of a big bow. Surprisingly. the recently discovered Korean > history text titled "Han Dan Go Gi" describes the life of "Fu Xi" > (Bokhwi in Korean) [3].
> It writes that he was the son of the 5-th emperor of the Baedal > (B.C.3898- BC 2333) and his surname was "Pung" as he lived in > "Pung-san". Although the surname "Pung" no longer exists in Korean > names, some related words survived to today such as "Pung-chae" > "Pung-gol" and"Pung-shin", all of which are terms for describing human > body shape. Another daughter name was "Yeo-wa" (N-Wa in Chinese) [3].
> It writes that she was known to have a magical talent to make a human > being from mud and to be extremely jealous (these two points, together > with the sound, might may remind you of Jehovah) [5].
> Unfortunately only a few Korean scholars in universities accept "Han > Dan Go Gi" as a history book, insisting that the book was fabricated > in some points. Some Koreans, while acknowledging that a few points > might have been fabricated while copying, decry the university > historians as too much contaminated by Japanese colonial view of > history that tried to disparage Korean history in the 1910-1945 > period, as they deny whole text book. Anyway, East Yi was located in > Shandong Province...... What does this mean? I would rather stop here > for today. But the point is that it will not be awkward that I link "I > Ching" to Han.
> http://www.xsenergy.com/theme.html > "Yi is known by a variety of names: The East Barbarian, Yi the Good, > Lord Yi, and Yi Lord of the Hsia. As a result of this ambiguity, Yi is > seen both as a hero who is favored by the Gods as well as a villain, > murderer, usurper and adulterer. In this myth Yi is the hero as he > shoots the Ten Suns to avert disaster."
Your wildly imaginative post (to put it friendly) may not be worth replying, but just in case someone might take you seriously, I'll take up only one of your points.
Sukgeun Jung <skj...@wam.umd.edu> wrote: > 2. Among countries that adopted Chinese character, only Koreans use exactly > one syllable for one character. Chinese or Japanese used one or more > syllables for one character. A good example is the sounds denoting the > numbers. Only Koreans use just one syllable for one number. So, it is very > easy for Koreans to say any complex numbers quickly.
The Chinese pronunciations of the Chinese characters may take more than on syllable only when written in _Korean hangul characters_. To write 'bai' in hangul, one needs the syllables 'ba' and 'i', which of course does not mean that 'bai' is a two-syllable pronunciation in Chinese.
> For another example, the sound for 'white' in Chinese character in 'baek' > (one syllable) in Korean but 'bai' (two syllable) in Chinese. Regarding the > character denoting 'head', it is 'doo' in Korean but 'tou' in Chinese. On > the other hand, it is the same for the character denoting 'mountain' - > 'shan' in both Korean and Chinese. > Why have Koreans used only one syllable for one character, but Chinese one > or more syllables? It certainly shows that Chinese pronunciation system is a > variant from Korean counterpart.
Because it looks like that when the pronunciations are thought of in the terms of Korean writing. Korea does not need to be made the center of the universe and the source of East Asian civilization to have its own worth. (Hm, come to think that if Sukgeun is being silly on purpose, I've only ended up making fool of myself.)
Imaginative post? I think I provided solid four evidences. I may have needed only the first one, but you need to falsify all four to refute my argument.
Let me talk about your main point. I think you tried to falsify my 2nd evidence, i.e., Koreans use only one syllable but Chinese use more than one syllables for one character. Are you insisting that Chinese also use just one syllable for every Chinese character like Koreans? If not, drop your argument on the number of syllable for a character.
"Antti Leppanen" <alepp...@cc.helsinki.fi> wrote in message
> Your wildly imaginative post (to put it friendly) may not be worth > replying, but just in case someone might take you seriously, I'll take > up only one of your points.
> > 2. Among countries that adopted Chinese character, only Koreans use exactly > > one syllable for one character. Chinese or Japanese used one or more > > syllables for one character. A good example is the sounds denoting the > > numbers. Only Koreans use just one syllable for one number. So, it is very > > easy for Koreans to say any complex numbers quickly.
> The Chinese pronunciations of the Chinese characters may take more than > on syllable only when written in _Korean hangul characters_. To write > 'bai' in hangul, one needs the syllables 'ba' and 'i', which of course > does not mean that 'bai' is a two-syllable pronunciation in Chinese.
> > For another example, the sound for 'white' in Chinese character in 'baek' > > (one syllable) in Korean but 'bai' (two syllable) in Chinese. Regarding the > > character denoting 'head', it is 'doo' in Korean but 'tou' in Chinese. On > > the other hand, it is the same for the character denoting 'mountain' - > > 'shan' in both Korean and Chinese.
> > Why have Koreans used only one syllable for one character, but Chinese one > > or more syllables? It certainly shows that Chinese pronunciation system is a > > variant from Korean counterpart.
> Because it looks like that when the pronunciations are thought of in the > terms of Korean writing. > Korea does not need to be made the center of the universe and the source > of East Asian civilization to have its own worth. > (Hm, come to think that if Sukgeun is being silly on purpose, I've only > ended up making fool of myself.)
> I insist that the so-called Chinese character was probably invented and > developed by Korean, although the populous Chinese also have used it as > their basic writing systems. I believe the number of population of any > ethnic group should not be a factor that obscures the origin. I explain some > evidences.
> 1. The original pictographs called 'gab-gol' (bone and shell) or 'bok-sa' in > Korean were certainly invented during the Yin dynasty (or Shang state, BC > 1600~BC 1046), although it is uncertain who was the inventor. There is no > dispute regarding this matter between Korean and Chinese historians. There > are ample recent evidences that the dominant people of the Yin dynasty was > Korean, which some Chinese historians also acknowledge.
> 2. Among countries that adopted Chinese character, only Koreans use exactly > one syllable for one character. Chinese or Japanese used one or more > syllables for one character. A good example is the sounds denoting the > numbers. Only Koreans use just one syllable for one number. So, it is very > easy for Koreans to say any complex numbers quickly.
> For another example, the sound for 'white' in Chinese character in 'baek' > (one syllable) in Korean but 'bai' (two syllable) in Chinese. Regarding the > character denoting 'head', it is 'doo' in Korean but 'tou' in Chinese. On > the other hand, it is the same for the character denoting 'mountain' - > 'shan' in both Korean and Chinese.
> Why have Koreans used only one syllable for one character, but Chinese one > or more syllables? It certainly shows that Chinese pronunciation system is a > variant from Korean counterpart.
> 3. Some basic pictographs reflect Korean life-style and customs.
> For example, the character denoting 'house' (ga in Korean) contains a > character denoting a pig (hog) in the lower part. In the house, people live, > not a pig live. Why did they adopt a pig to denote a house? Only Koreans > raised pigs within their house.
> Another example is the character denoting 'sun'. The character contains a > dot within a rectangle. Why did they contain the dot, seemingly > unnecessarily? The dot denotes a golden crow. Only Koreans had the legend > linking the sun to the golden crow.
> Additional example is the character denoting 'surname' (ssi in Korean). In > Chinese, the character denotes only 'surname' while it denotes both > 'surname' and 'seed' in Korean. 'Ssi' is a most common word in Korean and > compares the pedigree with the tree (i.e., the seed is a common symbol for > the original ancestor whose trace has been handed down by his surname).
> 4. Korean history book describes the origin of written systems, which is > inscribed in dolmens in Korea.
> A Korean history book called Chun-bu-gyung records the origin of both > current Chinese character and Korean alphabet (hangul). Chinese character is > a kind of pictograph + ideograph, while hangul is the most advanced of > phonogram + ideogram in the world. Bone and shell inscriptions were a > pictograph, while hexagrams of I-ching invented by Fu Xi (Bokhwi in Korean) > are a kind of ideogram. The original character for both Chinese character > and hangul was 'Nok-doo-mun' (the most ancient writing system), according to > the Chun-bu-gyung. Currently, only Koreans still play a game called 'Yout', > which is believed to be very similar to the 'Nok-doo-mun'. The principles of > Yout game are essentially the same as I-Ching. Moreover, in Korea and > Manchuria, currently there are many ancient rocks (dolmen) in which various > kinds of primitive writings are inscribed (see some pictures at > http://myhome.shinbiro.com/~kbyon/culture/rokdo.htm)
> Based on these four facts, I strongly argue that the Chinese character was > originated and developed by Koreans. The differences in pronunciation system > for numbers between Chinese and Korean clearly indicates it's Korean origin.
> --- Footnote
> I add my message on Fu Xi and I-Ching. Fu Xi (or Bokhwi in Korean) is one of > the candidates for the inventor of Chinese characters.
> Han and 'I Ching'
> The hexagrams of the I Ching were said to have been created by the > legendary emperor 'Fu Xi' after he had contemplated on a diagram > called Ha Do that was bestowed from the Heaven. Han scholars rewrote > many myths as fact to fill gaps in early Chinese history. Fu Xi was > declared to have been the very first emperor, ruling from 2852 to 2737 > BC. He was said to have been the inventor of musical instruments and > Chinese handwriting [1].
> Chinese legend says that Fu Xi is the most senior one among the three > ancestors. Together with N-Wa, the women who he married with, they > started the civilization of human being. The current Fu Xi's Temple in > Shandong was built on a 6-meter high terrace. In the main hall, Fu > Xi's state was placed and sacrifices are given. And in the back of the > hall, N-Wa's statue was placed [2].
> It is said that the upper body of Fu Xi is that of a human being while > his lower body is in the form of a snake. Inferring from the > scientific nature of the I Ching, it may just be possible that Fu Xi > was an extraterrestrial. If Fu Xi was indeed the first ancestor of > Chinese, then how could the descendents describe their first ancestor > as a monster? Why did ancient Chinese historians initially consider Fu > Xi as just a legend? Ancient Chinese call their neighboring people as > "bugs" or"barbarians". The monster portrait suggests that Fu Xi might > have been from a neighboring country, not Chinese countries. What was > that country?
> "Fu Xi came from the nationality called East Yi dwelling in the > Neolithic Age, along the coastal area of the present-day Shandong > Province and, therefore, Fu Xi turned out to have come from Shandong > Province" (quoted from a Chinese site [4])
> What was "East Yi"? Of course, "Yi" means "barbarians" in Chinese. > Most Koreans know what is "Dong (east) Yi". People in 'East Yi' are > known to have been very good at archery, as Korean Olympic archery > teams are today. The Chinese character "Yi" indeed symbolize the > shape of a big bow. Surprisingly. the recently discovered Korean > history text titled "Han Dan Go Gi" describes the life of "Fu Xi" > (Bokhwi in Korean) [3].
> It writes that he was the son of the 5-th emperor of the Baedal > (B.C.3898- BC 2333) and his surname was "Pung" as he lived in > "Pung-san". Although the surname "Pung" no longer exists in Korean > names, some related words survived to today such as "Pung-chae" > "Pung-gol" and"Pung-shin", all of which are terms for describing human > body shape. Another daughter name was "Yeo-wa" (N-Wa in Chinese) [3].
> It writes that she was known to have a magical talent to make a human > being from mud and to be extremely jealous (these two points, together > with the sound, might may remind you of Jehovah) [5].
> Unfortunately only a few Korean scholars in universities accept "Han > Dan Go Gi" as a history book, insisting that the book was fabricated > in some points. Some Koreans, while acknowledging that a few points > might have been fabricated while copying, decry the university > historians as too much contaminated by Japanese colonial view of > history that tried to disparage Korean history in the 1910-1945 > period, as they deny whole text book. Anyway, East Yi was located in > Shandong Province...... What does this mean? I would rather stop here > for today. But the point is that it will not be awkward that I link "I > Ching" to Han.
> http://www.xsenergy.com/theme.html > "Yi is known by a variety of names: The East Barbarian, Yi the Good, > Lord Yi, and Yi Lord of the Hsia. As a result of this ambiguity, Yi is > seen both as a hero who is favored by the Gods as well as a villain, > murderer, usurper and adulterer. In this myth Yi is the hero as he > shoots the Ten Suns to avert disaster."
No. We do not need to shock the world. It will progressively be known to the world. It takes time to change stereotype or belief of people. You will see it during your life time. I guarantee it.
"sunnyday" <l_20012...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> Wow, you should submit your papers of your new discovery that will shock the > world. Good luck. For the time being, I believe what's already there.
> "Sukgeun Jung" <skj...@wam.umd.edu> wrote in message > news:ak9kss$4l4$1@gamera.cbl.umces.edu... > > I insist that the so-called Chinese character was probably invented and > > developed by Korean, although the populous Chinese also have used it as > > their basic writing systems. I believe the number of population of any > > ethnic group should not be a factor that obscures the origin. I explain > some > > evidences.
> > 1. The original pictographs called 'gab-gol' (bone and shell) or 'bok-sa' > in > > Korean were certainly invented during the Yin dynasty (or Shang state, BC > > 1600~BC 1046), although it is uncertain who was the inventor. There is no > > dispute regarding this matter between Korean and Chinese historians. There > > are ample recent evidences that the dominant people of the Yin dynasty was > > Korean, which some Chinese historians also acknowledge.
> > 2. Among countries that adopted Chinese character, only Koreans use > exactly > > one syllable for one character. Chinese or Japanese used one or more > > syllables for one character. A good example is the sounds denoting the > > numbers. Only Koreans use just one syllable for one number. So, it is very > > easy for Koreans to say any complex numbers quickly.
> > For another example, the sound for 'white' in Chinese character in 'baek' > > (one syllable) in Korean but 'bai' (two syllable) in Chinese. Regarding > the > > character denoting 'head', it is 'doo' in Korean but 'tou' in Chinese. On > > the other hand, it is the same for the character denoting 'mountain' - > > 'shan' in both Korean and Chinese.
> > Why have Koreans used only one syllable for one character, but Chinese one > > or more syllables? It certainly shows that Chinese pronunciation system is > a > > variant from Korean counterpart.
> > 3. Some basic pictographs reflect Korean life-style and customs.
> > For example, the character denoting 'house' (ga in Korean) contains a > > character denoting a pig (hog) in the lower part. In the house, people > live, > > not a pig live. Why did they adopt a pig to denote a house? Only Koreans > > raised pigs within their house.
> > Another example is the character denoting 'sun'. The character contains a > > dot within a rectangle. Why did they contain the dot, seemingly > > unnecessarily? The dot denotes a golden crow. Only Koreans had the legend > > linking the sun to the golden crow.
> > Additional example is the character denoting 'surname' (ssi in Korean). In > > Chinese, the character denotes only 'surname' while it denotes both > > 'surname' and 'seed' in Korean. 'Ssi' is a most common word in Korean and > > compares the pedigree with the tree (i.e., the seed is a common symbol for > > the original ancestor whose trace has been handed down by his surname).
> > 4. Korean history book describes the origin of written systems, which is > > inscribed in dolmens in Korea.
> > A Korean history book called Chun-bu-gyung records the origin of both > > current Chinese character and Korean alphabet (hangul). Chinese character > is > > a kind of pictograph + ideograph, while hangul is the most advanced of > > phonogram + ideogram in the world. Bone and shell inscriptions were a > > pictograph, while hexagrams of I-ching invented by Fu Xi (Bokhwi in > Korean) > > are a kind of ideogram. The original character for both Chinese character > > and hangul was 'Nok-doo-mun' (the most ancient writing system), according > to > > the Chun-bu-gyung. Currently, only Koreans still play a game called > 'Yout', > > which is believed to be very similar to the 'Nok-doo-mun'. The principles > of > > Yout game are essentially the same as I-Ching. Moreover, in Korea and > > Manchuria, currently there are many ancient rocks (dolmen) in which > various > > kinds of primitive writings are inscribed (see some pictures at > > http://myhome.shinbiro.com/~kbyon/culture/rokdo.htm)
> > Based on these four facts, I strongly argue that the Chinese character was > > originated and developed by Koreans. The differences in pronunciation > system > > for numbers between Chinese and Korean clearly indicates it's Korean > origin.
> > --- Footnote
> > I add my message on Fu Xi and I-Ching. Fu Xi (or Bokhwi in Korean) is one > of > > the candidates for the inventor of Chinese characters.
> > Han and 'I Ching'
> > The hexagrams of the I Ching were said to have been created by the > > legendary emperor 'Fu Xi' after he had contemplated on a diagram > > called Ha Do that was bestowed from the Heaven. Han scholars rewrote > > many myths as fact to fill gaps in early Chinese history. Fu Xi was > > declared to have been the very first emperor, ruling from 2852 to 2737 > > BC. He was said to have been the inventor of musical instruments and > > Chinese handwriting [1].
> > Chinese legend says that Fu Xi is the most senior one among the three > > ancestors. Together with N-Wa, the women who he married with, they > > started the civilization of human being. The current Fu Xi's Temple in > > Shandong was built on a 6-meter high terrace. In the main hall, Fu > > Xi's state was placed and sacrifices are given. And in the back of the > > hall, N-Wa's statue was placed [2].
> > It is said that the upper body of Fu Xi is that of a human being while > > his lower body is in the form of a snake. Inferring from the > > scientific nature of the I Ching, it may just be possible that Fu Xi > > was an extraterrestrial. If Fu Xi was indeed the first ancestor of > > Chinese, then how could the descendents describe their first ancestor > > as a monster? Why did ancient Chinese historians initially consider Fu > > Xi as just a legend? Ancient Chinese call their neighboring people as > > "bugs" or"barbarians". The monster portrait suggests that Fu Xi might > > have been from a neighboring country, not Chinese countries. What was > > that country?
> > "Fu Xi came from the nationality called East Yi dwelling in the > > Neolithic Age, along the coastal area of the present-day Shandong > > Province and, therefore, Fu Xi turned out to have come from Shandong > > Province" (quoted from a Chinese site [4])
> > What was "East Yi"? Of course, "Yi" means "barbarians" in Chinese. > > Most Koreans know what is "Dong (east) Yi". People in 'East Yi' are > > known to have been very good at archery, as Korean Olympic archery > > teams are today. The Chinese character "Yi" indeed symbolize the > > shape of a big bow. Surprisingly. the recently discovered Korean > > history text titled "Han Dan Go Gi" describes the life of "Fu Xi" > > (Bokhwi in Korean) [3].
> > It writes that he was the son of the 5-th emperor of the Baedal > > (B.C.3898- BC 2333) and his surname was "Pung" as he lived in > > "Pung-san". Although the surname "Pung" no longer exists in Korean > > names, some related words survived to today such as "Pung-chae" > > "Pung-gol" and"Pung-shin", all of which are terms for describing human > > body shape. Another daughter name was "Yeo-wa" (N-Wa in Chinese) [3].
> > It writes that she was known to have a magical talent to make a human > > being from mud and to be extremely jealous (these two points, together > > with the sound, might may remind you of Jehovah) [5].
> > Unfortunately only a few Korean scholars in universities accept "Han > > Dan Go Gi" as a history book, insisting that the book was fabricated > > in some points. Some Koreans, while acknowledging that a few points > > might have been fabricated while copying, decry the university > > historians as too much contaminated by Japanese colonial view of > > history that tried to disparage Korean history in the 1910-1945 > > period, as they deny whole text book. Anyway, East Yi was located in > > Shandong Province...... What does this mean? I would rather stop here > > for today. But the point is that it will not be awkward that I link "I > > Ching" to Han.
> > http://www.xsenergy.com/theme.html > > "Yi is known by a variety of names: The East Barbarian, Yi the Good, > > Lord Yi, and Yi Lord of the Hsia. As a result of this ambiguity, Yi is > > seen both as a hero who is favored by the Gods as well as a villain, > > murderer, usurper and adulterer. In this myth Yi is the hero as he > > shoots the Ten Suns to avert disaster."
> No. We do not need to shock the world. It will progressively be known to the > world. It takes time to change stereotype or belief of people. You will see > it during your life time. I guarantee it.
This nonsense that Korea was at the center of all creativity, culture, art in Asia is a cottage industy in Korea. There are theories that Confucius and Lao Tzu were Korean. It's like the cottage industry in Japan where Japanese didn't take anything from Korea and developed it all on their own. Koreans and Japanese are so stupid.
Unless you can reply to my message by providing specific arguments and counter-evidences with respect to my four evidences, I would like to courteously advise you to shut up.
"Bear Khan" <beark...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> "Sukgeun Jung" <skj...@wam.umd.edu> wrote in message > news:akb6el$etj$1@gamera.cbl.umces.edu... > > No. We do not need to shock the world. It will progressively be known to > the > > world. It takes time to change stereotype or belief of people. You will > see > > it during your life time. I guarantee it.
> This nonsense that Korea was at the center of all creativity, culture, art > in Asia is a cottage industy in Korea. > There are theories that Confucius and Lao Tzu were Korean. > It's like the cottage industry in Japan where Japanese didn't take anything > from Korea and developed it all on their own. > Koreans and Japanese are so stupid.
>From: daiy...@earthlink.net (Daitaro Hagihara) >Date: 25/08/02 5:35 PM Eastern Daylight Time >Japan did learn a lot from China via way of Koguryo during early >stages of Japanese development between 4th and 5th century when >Japan subjugated a part of Korean penninsula known as Kaya. >But that's not reason enough to say that Japan learnt from Korea >per se, since Koguryo was highly sinicized when Japan first >contacted them.
>DH
Tsushima is Korean territory illegaly occupied by Japanese outlaws. As a law-abiding citizen, wouldn't you support returning Tsushima to its rightful owners?
As I think it seem to be impossible to explain ancient East Asian history to you based on your knowledge, I will talk about a rather funny story, related with this thread.
In previous article, I mentioned the gold crow to explain how the Chinese character denoting 'sun' had a dot in the center. In various mural paintings drawn during Koguryo (B.C. 37 ~ A.D. 668), we can see the gold crow. The gold crow has three legs. See a picture of the gold crow at:
It was the symbol of the sun to Koreans, whereas a toad was the symbol of the moon. The legend says that the crow eats fire of the sun. Why did the crow have three legs? Two legs implies imperfection, so Koreans added another leg. Koreans cherished the number 3. The most ancient Korean history book called Chun-bu-kyung also started with the number 3 (1 + 2 = 3). Three denotes perfection or maturation.
This seemingly forgotten three-leg crow became a news during the 2002 worldcup in Korea. The three-leg crow has been used as the logo of JFA (Japan Football Association), probably since 1950, which most Koreans had not noticed. Look at the log at:
Of course, Japan has a record on the three-leg crow according the book (Nihon Shogi dated in AD 720), apparently influenced by Koguryo. But Japan do not have any ancient paintings on the three-leg crow or the related legend. Why do Japanese try to copy even this kind of ancient logo of Koreans?
"Daitaro Hagihara" <daiy...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> In article <euBcqNHTCHA.2140@cpimsnntpa03>, "Bear Khan" > <beark...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >It's like the cottage industry in Japan where Japanese didn't take anything > >from Korea and developed it all on their own. > >Koreans and Japanese are so stupid.
> Japan did learn a lot from China via way of Koguryo during early > stages of Japanese development between 4th and 5th century when > Japan subjugated a part of Korean penninsula known as Kaya. > But that's not reason enough to say that Japan learnt from Korea > per se, since Koguryo was highly sinicized when Japan first > contacted them.
> As I think it seem to be impossible to explain ancient East Asian history to > you based on your knowledge, I will talk about a rather funny story, related > with this thread.
> In previous article, I mentioned the gold crow to explain how the Chinese > character denoting 'sun' had a dot in the center. In various mural paintings > drawn during Koguryo (B.C. 37 ~ A.D. 668), we can see the gold crow. The > gold crow has three legs. See a picture of the gold crow at:
> It was the symbol of the sun to Koreans, whereas a toad was the symbol of > the moon. The legend says that the crow eats fire of the sun. Why did the > crow have three legs? Two legs implies imperfection, so Koreans added > another leg. Koreans cherished the number 3. The most ancient Korean history > book called Chun-bu-kyung also started with the number 3 (1 + 2 = 3). Three > denotes perfection or maturation.
> This seemingly forgotten three-leg crow became a news during the 2002 > worldcup in Korea. The three-leg crow has been used as the logo of JFA > (Japan Football Association), probably since 1950, which most Koreans had > not noticed. Look at the log at:
> Of course, Japan has a record on the three-leg crow according the book > (Nihon Shogi dated in AD 720), apparently influenced by Koguryo. But Japan > do not have any ancient paintings on the three-leg crow or the related > legend. Why do Japanese try to copy even this kind of ancient logo of > Koreans?
> > >It's like the cottage industry in Japan where Japanese didn't take > anything > > >from Korea and developed it all on their own. > > >Koreans and Japanese are so stupid.
> > Japan did learn a lot from China via way of Koguryo during early > > stages of Japanese development between 4th and 5th century when > > Japan subjugated a part of Korean penninsula known as Kaya. > > But that's not reason enough to say that Japan learnt from Korea > > per se, since Koguryo was highly sinicized when Japan first > > contacted them.
Where did you get this 'scientific' study? I'll bet from some book written by a korean scholar. Korean academics are strictly third rate, even worse than the Japanese.
"Sukgeun Jung" <skj...@wam.umd.edu> wrote in message
> I insist that the so-called Chinese character was probably invented and > developed by Korean, although the populous Chinese also have used it as > their basic writing systems. I believe the number of population of any > ethnic group should not be a factor that obscures the origin. I explain some > evidences.
> 1. The original pictographs called 'gab-gol' (bone and shell) or 'bok-sa' in > Korean were certainly invented during the Yin dynasty (or Shang state, BC > 1600~BC 1046), although it is uncertain who was the inventor. There is no > dispute regarding this matter between Korean and Chinese historians. There > are ample recent evidences that the dominant people of the Yin dynasty was > Korean, which some Chinese historians also acknowledge.
> 2. Among countries that adopted Chinese character, only Koreans use exactly > one syllable for one character. Chinese or Japanese used one or more > syllables for one character. A good example is the sounds denoting the > numbers. Only Koreans use just one syllable for one number. So, it is very > easy for Koreans to say any complex numbers quickly.
> For another example, the sound for 'white' in Chinese character in 'baek' > (one syllable) in Korean but 'bai' (two syllable) in Chinese. Regarding the > character denoting 'head', it is 'doo' in Korean but 'tou' in Chinese. On > the other hand, it is the same for the character denoting 'mountain' - > 'shan' in both Korean and Chinese.
> Why have Koreans used only one syllable for one character, but Chinese one > or more syllables? It certainly shows that Chinese pronunciation system is a > variant from Korean counterpart.
> 3. Some basic pictographs reflect Korean life-style and customs.
> For example, the character denoting 'house' (ga in Korean) contains a > character denoting a pig (hog) in the lower part. In the house, people live, > not a pig live. Why did they adopt a pig to denote a house? Only Koreans > raised pigs within their house.
> Another example is the character denoting 'sun'. The character contains a > dot within a rectangle. Why did they contain the dot, seemingly > unnecessarily? The dot denotes a golden crow. Only Koreans had the legend > linking the sun to the golden crow.
> Additional example is the character denoting 'surname' (ssi in Korean). In > Chinese, the character denotes only 'surname' while it denotes both > 'surname' and 'seed' in Korean. 'Ssi' is a most common word in Korean and > compares the pedigree with the tree (i.e., the seed is a common symbol for > the original ancestor whose trace has been handed down by his surname).
> 4. Korean history book describes the origin of written systems, which is > inscribed in dolmens in Korea.
> A Korean history book called Chun-bu-gyung records the origin of both > current Chinese character and Korean alphabet (hangul). Chinese character is > a kind of pictograph + ideograph, while hangul is the most advanced of > phonogram + ideogram in the world. Bone and shell inscriptions were a > pictograph, while hexagrams of I-ching invented by Fu Xi (Bokhwi in Korean) > are a kind of ideogram. The original character for both Chinese character > and hangul was 'Nok-doo-mun' (the most ancient writing system), according to > the Chun-bu-gyung. Currently, only Koreans still play a game called 'Yout', > which is believed to be very similar to the 'Nok-doo-mun'. The principles of > Yout game are essentially the same as I-Ching. Moreover, in Korea and > Manchuria, currently there are many ancient rocks (dolmen) in which various > kinds of primitive writings are inscribed (see some pictures at > http://myhome.shinbiro.com/~kbyon/culture/rokdo.htm)
> Based on these four facts, I strongly argue that the Chinese character was > originated and developed by Koreans. The differences in pronunciation system > for numbers between Chinese and Korean clearly indicates it's Korean origin.
> --- Footnote
> I add my message on Fu Xi and I-Ching. Fu Xi (or Bokhwi in Korean) is one of > the candidates for the inventor of Chinese characters.
> Han and 'I Ching'
> The hexagrams of the I Ching were said to have been created by the > legendary emperor 'Fu Xi' after he had contemplated on a diagram > called Ha Do that was bestowed from the Heaven. Han scholars rewrote > many myths as fact to fill gaps in early Chinese history. Fu Xi was > declared to have been the very first emperor, ruling from 2852 to 2737 > BC. He was said to have been the inventor of musical instruments and > Chinese handwriting [1].
> Chinese legend says that Fu Xi is the most senior one among the three > ancestors. Together with N-Wa, the women who he married with, they > started the civilization of human being. The current Fu Xi's Temple in > Shandong was built on a 6-meter high terrace. In the main hall, Fu > Xi's state was placed and sacrifices are given. And in the back of the > hall, N-Wa's statue was placed [2].
> It is said that the upper body of Fu Xi is that of a human being while > his lower body is in the form of a snake. Inferring from the > scientific nature of the I Ching, it may just be possible that Fu Xi > was an extraterrestrial. If Fu Xi was indeed the first ancestor of > Chinese, then how could the descendents describe their first ancestor > as a monster? Why did ancient Chinese historians initially consider Fu > Xi as just a legend? Ancient Chinese call their neighboring people as > "bugs" or"barbarians". The monster portrait suggests that Fu Xi might > have been from a neighboring country, not Chinese countries. What was > that country?
> "Fu Xi came from the nationality called East Yi dwelling in the > Neolithic Age, along the coastal area of the present-day Shandong > Province and, therefore, Fu Xi turned out to have come from Shandong > Province" (quoted from a Chinese site [4])
> What was "East Yi"? Of course, "Yi" means "barbarians" in Chinese. > Most Koreans know what is "Dong (east) Yi". People in 'East Yi' are > known to have been very good at archery, as Korean Olympic archery > teams are today. The Chinese character "Yi" indeed symbolize the > shape of a big bow. Surprisingly. the recently discovered Korean > history text titled "Han Dan Go Gi" describes the life of "Fu Xi" > (Bokhwi in Korean) [3].
> It writes that he was the son of the 5-th emperor of the Baedal > (B.C.3898- BC 2333) and his surname was "Pung" as he lived in > "Pung-san". Although the surname "Pung" no longer exists in Korean > names, some related words survived to today such as "Pung-chae" > "Pung-gol" and"Pung-shin", all of which are terms for describing human > body shape. Another daughter name was "Yeo-wa" (N-Wa in Chinese) [3].
> It writes that she was known to have a magical talent to make a human > being from mud and to be extremely jealous (these two points, together > with the sound, might may remind you of Jehovah) [5].
> Unfortunately only a few Korean scholars in universities accept "Han > Dan Go Gi" as a history book, insisting that the book was fabricated > in some points. Some Koreans, while acknowledging that a few points > might have been fabricated while copying, decry the university > historians as too much contaminated by Japanese colonial view of > history that tried to disparage Korean history in the 1910-1945 > period, as they deny whole text book. Anyway, East Yi was located in > Shandong Province...... What does this mean? I would rather stop here > for today. But the point is that it will not be awkward that I link "I > Ching" to Han.
> http://www.xsenergy.com/theme.html > "Yi is known by a variety of names: The East Barbarian, Yi the Good, > Lord Yi, and Yi Lord of the Hsia. As a result of this ambiguity, Yi is > seen both as a hero who is favored by the Gods as well as a villain, > murderer, usurper and adulterer. In this myth Yi is the hero as he > shoots the Ten Suns to avert disaster."
Your bullshit and Daitaro's bullshit belong to the same category: nationalist shit.
Your inflate your own cultures while belittling others. So Japanese say Koreans taught them nothing and now some Korean idiot is Koreans taught Chinese and no the other way around. And your 'scientific' proof? Some book written by a Korean. I have all of respected academia behind me when I say Korea didn't give Chinese their written language. Only stupid Korean universities teach this shit. And why do Koreans pretend to have Chinese something? Because Koreans have nothing of their own to be proud of. Eat your kim chi and shut up.
"Sukgeun Jung" <skj...@wam.umd.edu> wrote in message
> As I think it seem to be impossible to explain ancient East Asian history to > you based on your knowledge, I will talk about a rather funny story, related > with this thread.
> In previous article, I mentioned the gold crow to explain how the Chinese > character denoting 'sun' had a dot in the center. In various mural paintings > drawn during Koguryo (B.C. 37 ~ A.D. 668), we can see the gold crow. The > gold crow has three legs. See a picture of the gold crow at:
> It was the symbol of the sun to Koreans, whereas a toad was the symbol of > the moon. The legend says that the crow eats fire of the sun. Why did the > crow have three legs? Two legs implies imperfection, so Koreans added > another leg. Koreans cherished the number 3. The most ancient Korean history > book called Chun-bu-kyung also started with the number 3 (1 + 2 = 3). Three > denotes perfection or maturation.
> This seemingly forgotten three-leg crow became a news during the 2002 > worldcup in Korea. The three-leg crow has been used as the logo of JFA > (Japan Football Association), probably since 1950, which most Koreans had > not noticed. Look at the log at:
> Of course, Japan has a record on the three-leg crow according the book > (Nihon Shogi dated in AD 720), apparently influenced by Koguryo. But Japan > do not have any ancient paintings on the three-leg crow or the related > legend. Why do Japanese try to copy even this kind of ancient logo of > Koreans?
> > >It's like the cottage industry in Japan where Japanese didn't take > anything > > >from Korea and developed it all on their own. > > >Koreans and Japanese are so stupid.
> > Japan did learn a lot from China via way of Koguryo during early > > stages of Japanese development between 4th and 5th century when > > Japan subjugated a part of Korean penninsula known as Kaya. > > But that's not reason enough to say that Japan learnt from Korea > > per se, since Koguryo was highly sinicized when Japan first > > contacted them.
> Where did you get this 'scientific' study? I'll bet from some book written > by a korean scholar. Korean academics are strictly third rate, even worse > than the Japanese.
> "Sukgeun Jung" <skj...@wam.umd.edu> wrote in message > news:ak9kss$4l4$1@gamera.cbl.umces.edu... > > I insist that the so-called Chinese character was probably invented and > > developed by Korean, although the populous Chinese also have used it as > > their basic writing systems. I believe the number of population of any > > ethnic group should not be a factor that obscures the origin. I explain > some > > evidences.
> > 1. The original pictographs called 'gab-gol' (bone and shell) or 'bok-sa' > in > > Korean were certainly invented during the Yin dynasty (or Shang state, BC > > 1600~BC 1046), although it is uncertain who was the inventor. There is no > > dispute regarding this matter between Korean and Chinese historians. There > > are ample recent evidences that the dominant people of the Yin dynasty was > > Korean, which some Chinese historians also acknowledge.
> > 2. Among countries that adopted Chinese character, only Koreans use > exactly > > one syllable for one character. Chinese or Japanese used one or more > > syllables for one character. A good example is the sounds denoting the > > numbers. Only Koreans use just one syllable for one number. So, it is very > > easy for Koreans to say any complex numbers quickly.
> > For another example, the sound for 'white' in Chinese character in 'baek' > > (one syllable) in Korean but 'bai' (two syllable) in Chinese. Regarding > the > > character denoting 'head', it is 'doo' in Korean but 'tou' in Chinese. On > > the other hand, it is the same for the character denoting 'mountain' - > > 'shan' in both Korean and Chinese.
> > Why have Koreans used only one syllable for one character, but Chinese one > > or more syllables? It certainly shows that Chinese pronunciation system is > a > > variant from Korean counterpart.
> > 3. Some basic pictographs reflect Korean life-style and customs.
> > For example, the character denoting 'house' (ga in Korean) contains a > > character denoting a pig (hog) in the lower part. In the house, people > live, > > not a pig live. Why did they adopt a pig to denote a house? Only Koreans > > raised pigs within their house.
> > Another example is the character denoting 'sun'. The character contains a > > dot within a rectangle. Why did they contain the dot, seemingly > > unnecessarily? The dot denotes a golden crow. Only Koreans had the legend > > linking the sun to the golden crow.
> > Additional example is the character denoting 'surname' (ssi in Korean). In > > Chinese, the character denotes only 'surname' while it denotes both > > 'surname' and 'seed' in Korean. 'Ssi' is a most common word in Korean and > > compares the pedigree with the tree (i.e., the seed is a common symbol for > > the original ancestor whose trace has been handed down by his surname).
> > 4. Korean history book describes the origin of written systems, which is > > inscribed in dolmens in Korea.
> > A Korean history book called Chun-bu-gyung records the origin of both > > current Chinese character and Korean alphabet (hangul). Chinese character > is > > a kind of pictograph + ideograph, while hangul is the most advanced of > > phonogram + ideogram in the world. Bone and shell inscriptions were a > > pictograph, while hexagrams of I-ching invented by Fu Xi (Bokhwi in > Korean) > > are a kind of ideogram. The original character for both Chinese character > > and hangul was 'Nok-doo-mun' (the most ancient writing system), according > to > > the Chun-bu-gyung. Currently, only Koreans still play a game called > 'Yout', > > which is believed to be very similar to the 'Nok-doo-mun'. The principles > of > > Yout game are essentially the same as I-Ching. Moreover, in Korea and > > Manchuria, currently there are many ancient rocks (dolmen) in which > various > > kinds of primitive writings are inscribed (see some pictures at > > http://myhome.shinbiro.com/~kbyon/culture/rokdo.htm)
> > Based on these four facts, I strongly argue that the Chinese character was > > originated and developed by Koreans. The differences in pronunciation > system > > for numbers between Chinese and Korean clearly indicates it's Korean > origin.
> > --- Footnote
> > I add my message on Fu Xi and I-Ching. Fu Xi (or Bokhwi in Korean) is one > of > > the candidates for the inventor of Chinese characters.
> > Han and 'I Ching'
> > The hexagrams of the I Ching were said to have been created by the > > legendary emperor 'Fu Xi' after he had contemplated on a diagram > > called Ha Do that was bestowed from the Heaven. Han scholars rewrote > > many myths as fact to fill gaps in early Chinese history. Fu Xi was > > declared to have been the very first emperor, ruling from 2852 to 2737 > > BC. He was said to have been the inventor of musical instruments and > > Chinese handwriting [1].
> > Chinese legend says that Fu Xi is the most senior one among the three > > ancestors. Together with N-Wa, the women who he married with, they > > started the civilization of human being. The current Fu Xi's Temple in > > Shandong was built on a 6-meter high terrace. In the main hall, Fu > > Xi's state was placed and sacrifices are given. And in the back of the > > hall, N-Wa's statue was placed [2].
> > It is said that the upper body of Fu Xi is that of a human being while > > his lower body is in the form of a snake. Inferring from the > > scientific nature of the I Ching, it may just be possible that Fu Xi > > was an extraterrestrial. If Fu Xi was indeed the first ancestor of > > Chinese, then how could the descendents describe their first ancestor > > as a monster? Why did ancient Chinese historians initially consider Fu > > Xi as just a legend? Ancient Chinese call their neighboring people as > > "bugs" or"barbarians". The monster portrait suggests that Fu Xi might > > have been from a neighboring country, not Chinese countries. What was > > that country?
> > "Fu Xi came from the nationality called East Yi dwelling in the > > Neolithic Age, along the coastal area of the present-day Shandong > > Province and, therefore, Fu Xi turned out to have come from Shandong > > Province" (quoted from a Chinese site [4])
> > What was "East Yi"? Of course, "Yi" means "barbarians" in Chinese. > > Most Koreans know what is "Dong (east) Yi". People in 'East Yi' are > > known to have been very good at archery, as Korean Olympic archery > > teams are today. The Chinese character "Yi" indeed symbolize the > > shape of a big bow. Surprisingly. the recently discovered Korean > > history text titled "Han Dan Go Gi" describes the life of "Fu Xi" > > (Bokhwi in Korean) [3].
> > It writes that he was the son of the 5-th emperor of the Baedal > > (B.C.3898- BC 2333) and his surname was "Pung" as he lived in > > "Pung-san". Although the surname "Pung" no longer exists in Korean > > names, some related words survived to today such as "Pung-chae" > > "Pung-gol" and"Pung-shin", all of which are terms for describing human > > body shape. Another daughter name was "Yeo-wa" (N-Wa in Chinese) [3].
> > It writes that she was known to have a magical talent to make a human > > being from mud and to be extremely jealous (these two points, together > > with the sound, might may remind you of Jehovah) [5].
> > Unfortunately only a few Korean scholars in universities accept "Han > > Dan Go Gi" as a history book, insisting that the book was fabricated > > in some points. Some Koreans, while acknowledging that a few points > > might have been fabricated while copying, decry the university > > historians as too much contaminated by Japanese colonial view of > > history that tried to disparage Korean history in the 1910-1945 > > period, as they deny whole text book. Anyway, East Yi was located in > > Shandong Province...... What does this mean? I would rather stop here > > for today. But the point is that it will not be awkward that I link "I > > Ching" to Han.
> > http://www.xsenergy.com/theme.html > > "Yi is known by a variety of names: The East Barbarian, Yi the Good, > > Lord Yi, and Yi Lord of the Hsia. As a result of this ambiguity, Yi is > > seen both as a hero who is favored by the Gods as well as a villain, > > murderer, usurper and adulterer. In this myth Yi is the hero as he > > shoots the Ten Suns to avert disaster."
"Bear Khan" <beark...@hotmail.com> wrote in message ... > Your bullshit and Daitaro's bullshit belong to the same category: > nationalist shit.
It's a disease that is being continuously spread throughout Asia from China.
> Your inflate your own cultures while belittling others.
This has been Chinese propaganda for God's knows how long. That's basically how they puffed themselves up.
> So Japanese say > Koreans taught them nothing and now some Korean idiot is Koreans taught > Chinese and no the other way around.
It is because China always discustingly say, "We taught this and that to inferior Korea and Japan." This kind of thing never happens in Europe. They help each other out. If it weren't for Chinese shitheads, Asia would be much better place to live.
> And your 'scientific' proof? Some book written by a Korean. > I have all of respected academia behind me when I say Korea didn't give > Chinese their written language.
At the same time, Koreans have been using Chinese characters as long as they were first invented.
> Only stupid Korean universities teach this shit. And why do Koreans pretend > to have Chinese something? Because Koreans have nothing of their own to be > proud of. Eat your kim chi and shut up.
We have plenty of things to be proud of. Chinese think having longer history is a pride. Rest of the world say, "China belongs to Museum."
> "Sukgeun Jung" <skj...@wam.umd.edu> wrote in message > news:akbv8j$k41$1@gamera.cbl.umces.edu... > > As I think it seem to be impossible to explain ancient East Asian history > to > > you based on your knowledge, I will talk about a rather funny story, > related > > with this thread.
> > In previous article, I mentioned the gold crow to explain how the Chinese > > character denoting 'sun' had a dot in the center. In various mural > paintings > > drawn during Koguryo (B.C. 37 ~ A.D. 668), we can see the gold crow. The > > gold crow has three legs. See a picture of the gold crow at:
> > It was the symbol of the sun to Koreans, whereas a toad was the symbol of > > the moon. The legend says that the crow eats fire of the sun. Why did the > > crow have three legs? Two legs implies imperfection, so Koreans added > > another leg. Koreans cherished the number 3. The most ancient Korean > history > > book called Chun-bu-kyung also started with the number 3 (1 + 2 = 3). > Three > > denotes perfection or maturation.
> > This seemingly forgotten three-leg crow became a news during the 2002 > > worldcup in Korea. The three-leg crow has been used as the logo of JFA > > (Japan Football Association), probably since 1950, which most Koreans had > > not noticed. Look at the log at:
> > Of course, Japan has a record on the three-leg crow according the book > > (Nihon Shogi dated in AD 720), apparently influenced by Koguryo. But Japan > > do not have any ancient paintings on the three-leg crow or the related > > legend. Why do Japanese try to copy even this kind of ancient logo of > > Koreans?
> > > >It's like the cottage industry in Japan where Japanese didn't take > > anything > > > >from Korea and developed it all on their own. > > > >Koreans and Japanese are so stupid.
> > > Japan did learn a lot from China via way of Koguryo during early > > > stages of Japanese development between 4th and 5th century when > > > Japan subjugated a part of Korean penninsula known as Kaya. > > > But that's not reason enough to say that Japan learnt from Korea > > > per se, since Koguryo was highly sinicized when Japan first > > > contacted them.
> Where did you get this 'scientific' study? I'll bet from some book written > by a korean scholar. Korean academics are strictly third rate, even worse > than the Japanese. > "Sukgeun Jung" <skj...@wam.umd.edu> wrote in message > news:ak9kss$4l4$1@gamera.cbl.umces.edu... > > I insist that the so-called Chinese character was probably invented and > > developed by Korean, although the populous Chinese also have used it as > > their basic writing systems. I believe the number of population of any > > ethnic group should not be a factor that obscures the origin. I explain > some > > evidences.
> > 1. The original pictographs called 'gab-gol' (bone and shell) or 'bok-sa' > in > > Korean were certainly invented during the Yin dynasty (or Shang state, BC > > 1600~BC 1046), although it is uncertain who was the inventor. There is no > > dispute regarding this matter between Korean and Chinese historians. There > > are ample recent evidences that the dominant people of the Yin dynasty was > > Korean, which some Chinese historians also acknowledge.
> > 2. Among countries that adopted Chinese character, only Koreans use > exactly > > one syllable for one character. Chinese or Japanese used one or more > > syllables for one character. A good example is the sounds denoting the > > numbers. Only Koreans use just one syllable for one number. So, it is very > > easy for Koreans to say any complex numbers quickly.
> > For another example, the sound for 'white' in Chinese character in 'baek' > > (one syllable) in Korean but 'bai' (two syllable) in Chinese. Regarding > the > > character denoting 'head', it is 'doo' in Korean but 'tou' in Chinese. On > > the other hand, it is the same for the character denoting 'mountain' - > > 'shan' in both Korean and Chinese.
> > Why have Koreans used only one syllable for one character, but Chinese one > > or more syllables? It certainly shows that Chinese pronunciation system is > a > > variant from Korean counterpart.
> > 3. Some basic pictographs reflect Korean life-style and customs.
> > For example, the character denoting 'house' (ga in Korean) contains a > > character denoting a pig (hog) in the lower part. In the house, people > live, > > not a pig live. Why did they adopt a pig to denote a house? Only Koreans > > raised pigs within their house.
> > Another example is the character denoting 'sun'. The character contains a > > dot within a rectangle. Why did they contain the dot, seemingly > > unnecessarily? The dot denotes a golden crow. Only Koreans had the legend > > linking the sun to the golden crow.
> > Additional example is the character denoting 'surname' (ssi in Korean). In > > Chinese, the character denotes only 'surname' while it denotes both > > 'surname' and 'seed' in Korean. 'Ssi' is a most common word in Korean and > > compares the pedigree with the tree (i.e., the seed is a common symbol for > > the original ancestor whose trace has been handed down by his surname).
> > 4. Korean history book describes the origin of written systems, which is > > inscribed in dolmens in Korea.
> > A Korean history book called Chun-bu-gyung records the origin of both > > current Chinese character and Korean alphabet (hangul). Chinese character > is > > a kind of pictograph + ideograph, while hangul is the most advanced of > > phonogram + ideogram in the world. Bone and shell inscriptions were a > > pictograph, while hexagrams of I-ching invented by Fu Xi (Bokhwi in > Korean) > > are a kind of ideogram. The original character for both Chinese character > > and hangul was 'Nok-doo-mun' (the most ancient writing system), according > to > > the Chun-bu-gyung. Currently, only Koreans still play a game called > 'Yout', > > which is believed to be very similar to the 'Nok-doo-mun'. The principles > of > > Yout game are essentially the same as I-Ching. Moreover, in Korea and > > Manchuria, currently there are many ancient rocks (dolmen) in which > various > > kinds of primitive writings are inscribed (see some pictures at > > http://myhome.shinbiro.com/~kbyon/culture/rokdo.htm)
> > Based on these four facts, I strongly argue that the Chinese character was > > originated and developed by Koreans. The differences in pronunciation > system > > for numbers between Chinese and Korean clearly indicates it's Korean > origin.
> > --- Footnote
> > I add my message on Fu Xi and I-Ching. Fu Xi (or Bokhwi in Korean) is one > of > > the candidates for the inventor of Chinese characters.
> > Han and 'I Ching'
> > The hexagrams of the I Ching were said to have been created by the > > legendary emperor 'Fu Xi' after he had contemplated on a diagram > > called Ha Do that was bestowed from the Heaven. Han scholars rewrote > > many myths as fact to fill gaps in early Chinese history. Fu Xi was > > declared to have been the very first emperor, ruling from 2852 to 2737 > > BC. He was said to have been the inventor of musical instruments and > > Chinese handwriting [1].
> > Chinese legend says that Fu Xi is the most senior one among the three > > ancestors. Together with N-Wa, the women who he married with, they > > started the civilization of human being. The current Fu Xi's Temple in > > Shandong was built on a 6-meter high terrace. In the main hall, Fu > > Xi's state was placed and sacrifices are given. And in the back of the > > hall, N-Wa's statue was placed [2].
> > It is said that the upper body of Fu Xi is that of a human being while > > his lower body is in the form of a snake. Inferring from the > > scientific nature of the I Ching, it may just be possible that Fu Xi > > was an extraterrestrial. If Fu Xi was indeed the first ancestor of > > Chinese, then how could the descendents describe their first ancestor > > as a monster? Why did ancient Chinese historians initially consider Fu > > Xi as just a legend? Ancient Chinese call their neighboring people as > > "bugs" or"barbarians". The monster portrait suggests that Fu Xi might > > have been from a neighboring country, not Chinese countries. What was > > that country?
> > "Fu Xi came from the nationality called East Yi dwelling in the > > Neolithic Age, along the coastal area of the present-day Shandong > > Province and, therefore, Fu Xi turned out to have come from Shandong > > Province" (quoted from a Chinese site [4])
> > What was "East Yi"? Of course, "Yi" means "barbarians" in Chinese. > > Most Koreans know what is "Dong (east) Yi". People in 'East Yi' are > > known to have been very good at archery, as Korean Olympic archery > > teams are today. The Chinese character "Yi" indeed symbolize the > > shape of a big bow. Surprisingly. the recently discovered Korean > > history text titled "Han Dan Go Gi" describes the life of "Fu Xi" > > (Bokhwi in Korean) [3].
> > It writes that he was the son of the 5-th emperor of the Baedal > > (B.C.3898- BC 2333) and his surname was "Pung" as he lived in > > "Pung-san". Although the surname "Pung" no longer exists in Korean > > names, some related words survived to today such as "Pung-chae" > > "Pung-gol" and"Pung-shin", all of which are terms for describing human > > body shape. Another daughter name was "Yeo-wa" (N-Wa in Chinese) [3].
> > It writes that she was known to have a magical talent to make a human > > being from mud and to be extremely jealous (these two points, together > > with the sound, might may remind you of Jehovah) [5].
> > Unfortunately only a few Korean scholars in universities accept "Han > > Dan Go Gi" as a history book, insisting that the book was fabricated > > in some points. Some Koreans, while acknowledging that a few points > > might have been fabricated while copying, decry the university > > historians as too much contaminated by Japanese colonial view of > > history that tried to disparage Korean history in the 1910-1945 > > period, as they deny whole text book. Anyway, East Yi was located in > > Shandong Province...... What does this mean? I would rather stop here > > for today. But the point is that it will not be awkward that I link "I > > Ching" to Han.
> > http://www.xsenergy.com/theme.html > > "Yi is known by a variety of names: The East Barbarian, Yi the Good, > > Lord Yi, and Yi Lord of the Hsia. As a result of this ambiguity, Yi is > > seen both as a hero who is favored by the Gods as well as a villain, > > murderer, usurper and adulterer. In this myth Yi is the hero as he > > shoots the Ten Suns to avert disaster."
I am not discussing nationalism, but historical facts. I have never denied that China or Japan has influenced Korea in cultural and other aspects. It is too obvious that culture and even people mix between neighboring countries.
I do not see any respected academia behind you, but just hear your growling. Just show me any fact you could provide.
Even you do not give me kimchi, how dare you say to eat it?
"Bear Khan" <beark...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> Your bullshit and Daitaro's bullshit belong to the same category: > nationalist shit.
> Your inflate your own cultures while belittling others. So Japanese say > Koreans taught them nothing and now some Korean idiot is Koreans taught > Chinese and no the other way around. > And your 'scientific' proof? Some book written by a Korean. > I have all of respected academia behind me when I say Korea didn't give > Chinese their written language. > Only stupid Korean universities teach this shit. And why do Koreans pretend > to have Chinese something? Because Koreans have nothing of their own to be > proud of. > Eat your kim chi and shut up.
> "Sukgeun Jung" <skj...@wam.umd.edu> wrote in message > news:akbv8j$k41$1@gamera.cbl.umces.edu... > > As I think it seem to be impossible to explain ancient East Asian history > to > > you based on your knowledge, I will talk about a rather funny story, > related > > with this thread.
> > In previous article, I mentioned the gold crow to explain how the Chinese > > character denoting 'sun' had a dot in the center. In various mural > paintings > > drawn during Koguryo (B.C. 37 ~ A.D. 668), we can see the gold crow. The > > gold crow has three legs. See a picture of the gold crow at:
> > It was the symbol of the sun to Koreans, whereas a toad was the symbol of > > the moon. The legend says that the crow eats fire of the sun. Why did the > > crow have three legs? Two legs implies imperfection, so Koreans added > > another leg. Koreans cherished the number 3. The most ancient Korean > history > > book called Chun-bu-kyung also started with the number 3 (1 + 2 = 3). > Three > > denotes perfection or maturation.
> > This seemingly forgotten three-leg crow became a news during the 2002 > > worldcup in Korea. The three-leg crow has been used as the logo of JFA > > (Japan Football Association), probably since 1950, which most Koreans had > > not noticed. Look at the log at:
> > Of course, Japan has a record on the three-leg crow according the book > > (Nihon Shogi dated in AD 720), apparently influenced by Koguryo. But Japan > > do not have any ancient paintings on the three-leg crow or the related > > legend. Why do Japanese try to copy even this kind of ancient logo of > > Koreans?
> > > >It's like the cottage industry in Japan where Japanese didn't take > > anything > > > >from Korea and developed it all on their own. > > > >Koreans and Japanese are so stupid.
> > > Japan did learn a lot from China via way of Koguryo during early > > > stages of Japanese development between 4th and 5th century when > > > Japan subjugated a part of Korean penninsula known as Kaya. > > > But that's not reason enough to say that Japan learnt from Korea > > > per se, since Koguryo was highly sinicized when Japan first > > > contacted them.
"Sukgeun Jung" wrote in message news:... > I insist that the so-called Chinese character was probably invented and > developed by Korean, although the populous Chinese also have used it as > their basic writing systems. I believe the number of population of any > ethnic group should not be a factor that obscures the origin. I explain some > evidences.
> 1. The original pictographs called 'gab-gol' (bone and shell) or 'bok-sa' in > Korean were certainly invented during the Yin dynasty (or Shang state, BC > 1600~BC 1046), although it is uncertain who was the inventor. There is no > dispute regarding this matter between Korean and Chinese historians. There > are ample recent evidences that the dominant people of the Yin dynasty was > Korean, which some Chinese historians also acknowledge.
So what is Korean?
The Mitochondrial Eve must have been Korean.
> 2. Among countries that adopted Chinese character, only Koreans use exactly > one syllable for one character. Chinese or Japanese used one or more > syllables for one character. A good example is the sounds denoting the > numbers. Only Koreans use just one syllable for one number. So, it is very > easy for Koreans to say any complex numbers quickly.
> For another example, the sound for 'white' in Chinese character in 'baek' > (one syllable) in Korean but 'bai' (two syllable) in Chinese. Regarding the > character denoting 'head', it is 'doo' in Korean but 'tou' in Chinese. On > the other hand, it is the same for the character denoting 'mountain' - > 'shan' in both Korean and Chinese.
What is YOUR definition of syllable?
ㅐ was pronounced as "ai", ㅔ as "ei" in the Middle Korean language, but these diphtongs were monophthongized.
> Why have Koreans used only one syllable for one character, but Chinese one > or more syllables? It certainly shows that Chinese pronunciation system is a > variant from Korean counterpart.
Sukgeun Jung wrote: > As I think it seem to be impossible to explain ancient East Asian history to > you based on your knowledge, I will talk about a rather funny story, related > with this thread.
> In previous article, I mentioned the gold crow to explain how the Chinese > character denoting 'sun' had a dot in the center. In various mural paintings > drawn during Koguryo (B.C. 37 ~ A.D. 668), we can see the gold crow. The > gold crow has three legs. See a picture of the gold crow at:
If B.C. 37 is the best that you could pull, that doesn't seem old enough compared with China's.
3 legged symbol of China's Western Zhou Dynasty (1050-771 B.C.).
"Twelve Symbols of Sovereignty Twelve Chinese symbols representing imperial authority, that appeared on the sacrificial robes of the emperor since the Western Zhou Dynasty (1050-771 B.C.). The twelve symbols include the sun(3 legged crow), moon, constellation of three stars, dragons, pheasant, mountains, a pair of bronze sacrificial cups, waterweed, grain, flame, ax, and fu. " "Sun One of the Twelve Symbols of Sovereignty, the sun is a symbol of enlightenment and is represented by the legendary three-legged crow on a red disc." <http://www.sdmart.org/dragonrobes/glossary.html>
"Taoist signs A few examples found in Taoist literature are considered in the fifth chapter. They include the talismans, the twelve heavenly signs and the twenty-four earthly responses as described in the Heavenly Red Writing of the Five Ancient Lords of the Primal Origin, Perfect Writing in Jade Tablet (Yuanshi wulao chishu yubian zhenwen) and the auspicious omens mentioned in the Taishang Exoteric Explanations of the Three Heavens (Taishang Santian neijiejing). In the latter, an interesting interpretation of history from the beginning of time until the Liu Song dynasty in provided. It says that, in the course of time, Laozi manifested himself several times to assist the emperors. The Han dynasty had been blessed by Heaven not only with traditional auspicious omens, sweet dew, a phoenix, a three-legged crow, and a nine-tailed fox, but also with 'Perfected-Immortals driving carriages', 'Saintly Assistants' and the Lingbao Scriptures, signs of undoubted Taoist origin. A few centuries later, the founding of the Liu Song dynasty, heir to the Han, was also blessed by the appearance of sweet dew, a nine-tailed fox, a three-horned ox, an elephant, twenty-two pieces of jade, and a jug of gold found by a Buddhist monk. Tizina Lippiello, University of Venice, completed her PhD research at the Sinological Institute in Leiden in 1995. " <http://www.iias.nl/iiasn/iiasn6/eastasia/omen.html>
> It was the symbol of the sun to Koreans, whereas a toad was the symbol of > the moon. The legend says that the crow eats fire of the sun. Why did the > crow have three legs? Two legs implies imperfection, so Koreans added > another leg. Koreans cherished the number 3. The most ancient Korean history > book called Chun-bu-kyung also started with the number 3 (1 + 2 = 3). Three > denotes perfection or maturation. > This seemingly forgotten three-leg crow became a news during the 2002 > worldcup in Korea. The three-leg crow has been used as the logo of JFA > (Japan Football Association), probably since 1950, which most Koreans had > not noticed. Look at the log at: > http://www.jfa.or.jp/index_e.html > Of course, Japan has a record on the three-leg crow according the book > (Nihon Shogi dated in AD 720), apparently influenced by Koguryo. But Japan > do not have any ancient paintings on the three-leg crow or the related > legend. Why do Japanese try to copy even this kind of ancient logo of > Koreans?
> > >It's like the cottage industry in Japan where Japanese didn't take > anything > > >from Korea and developed it all on their own. > > >Koreans and Japanese are so stupid.
> > Japan did learn a lot from China via way of Koguryo during early > > stages of Japanese development between 4th and 5th century when > > Japan subjugated a part of Korean penninsula known as Kaya. > > But that's not reason enough to say that Japan learnt from Korea > > per se, since Koguryo was highly sinicized when Japan first > > contacted them.
> "sunnyday" <l_20012...@yahoo.com> wrote > > Wow, you should submit your papers of your new discovery that will shock > > the world. Good luck. For the time being, I believe what's already there.
> No. We do not need to shock the world. It will progressively be known to the > world. It takes time to change stereotype or belief of people. You will see > it during your life time. I guarantee it.
Well, why don't you be the first to say it? There's always one the skeptics said was a loon, but were later proven wrong. You can be as famous as the guys that told the everyone the world was not flat, or that the Earth was not the center of the universe.
Go ahead. Be the pioneer for us flat-earthers.
Curtis.
-- I'm sorry. The card says, "Moops". // It's not "Moops", it's "Moors". It's a misprint. // Moops. // It's Moors. There's no "moops"! // Moops. // Moors!
Let's put an end to this shall we? You from your post know NOTHING about the Chinese language and are blindly and falsely promoting korean propaganda.
> Among countries that adopted Chinese character, only Koreans use > exactly one syllable for one character. Chinese or Japanese used one or more > syllables for one character. > For another example, the sound for 'white' in Chinese character in 'baek' > (one syllable) in Korean but 'bai' (two syllable) in Chinese. Regarding the > character denoting 'head', it is 'doo' in Korean but 'tou' in Chinese. On > the other hand, it is the same for the character denoting 'mountain' - > 'shan' in both Korean and Chinese.
FALSE. Chinese is STRICTLY one syllable per character. The Chinese word white 'bai' is only ONE syllable, it's pronouced like the korean 'bae' NOT pronounced 'ba-yee'. The Chinese word for head, 'tou' is also only ONE syllable pronounced like the english word 'tow' (as in tow-truck); not 'to-ooh' as you had so stupidly IMAGINED.
> A good example is the sounds denoting the > numbers. Only Koreans use just one syllable for one number. So, it is very > easy for Koreans to say any complex numbers quickly.
FALSE AGAIN. The Chinese characters for numbers were strictly for the Chinese language (yi/i, er/erh, san, si, wu, liu, qi/chi, ba, jiu, shi). The Koreans had their own indigenous numbering system but later used the Chinese because it was more logical and easier to use; to this day Korea like the Japanese have two systems of numbers: the native and the Sinitic. The Chinese have always just had THE ORIGINAL numbering system; characters from 1 to 10. 11 is made by a [10] and a [1] (shi-yi). the number 32 is made by [three][ten][two] (sanshi-er). the number 183 = yibai-bashi-san ([one][hundred][eight][ten][three]. This concept was then adopted by the Japanese and Koreans as the 'Sinitic Numeral System.' This isn't some obscure knowledge, it is pretty common knowledge. A Korean language textbook even teaches two numbering systems (the native Korean which is polysyllabic and the Sinitic which is monosyllabic).
The indigenous Korean numbers are the following: 1. Hana 2. Dul 20. Sumol 3. Set 30. Seron 4. Net 40. Mahon 5. Tasot 6. Yasot 7. Ilgop 8. Yodul 9. Ahop 10. Yul 11. Yulhana
They are not monosyllabic. The monosyllabic you were referring to are the Chinese-derivative numbers: il (yi), ee (er/ni), sam (san), se (si), etc. (enclosed w/ parenthesis are the Chinese pronounciations, left open are the Korean).
> 1. The original pictographs called 'gab-gol' (bone and shell) or 'bok-sa' in > Korean were certainly invented during the Yin dynasty (or Shang state, BC > 1600~BC 1046), although it is uncertain who was the inventor. There is no > dispute regarding this matter between Korean and Chinese historians. There > are ample recent evidences that the dominant people of the Yin dynasty was > Korean, which some Chinese historians also acknowledge.
No, the Yin Dynasty at that time had a writing system that was already fairly advanced; it is commonly accepted that the Yin Dynasty had borrowed the writing script from its predecessor the Xia/Hsia Dynasty. The Yin Dynasty cannot be Korean since the concept of a Korean ethnicity or nation had not even existed at that time. I don't know what you are talking about. It is possible that the Yin Dynasty was populated by more Central Asian like (Tungusic) peoples, but to say they were Korean but not Turkish or Mongolian or proto-Chinese is ridiculous (What are the 'Koreans' then? God?). However, even that is a stretch considering the Yin Dynasty's territorial boundaries were confined between the Yellow and Yangtse Rivers (although I agree it is possible that expeditionary forces and settlements elsewhere existed, like in the Korean peninsula; but the bulk of the civilization was in Central China).
Please don't post false Korean national-pride propaganda as scholarship. If you can find one Chinese character that has a two syllable pronouciation, may you be god. Until then quit imagining the Chinese pronouciation by its pinyin spelling. Bai = bae not ba'yee just like Shanghai is not Shang-Ha-Yee. Quit IMAGINING THINGS that aren't Korean to be Korean. You have many other things to be proud of as a nation and a culture, what is the purpose of this obsession in stating that the five thousands years of Chinese historical civilization is Korean origin (which has a written history of only two thousand yrs and the early ones being Chinese sources)?
I'm pissed that you could so 'matter-of-factly' say Chinese language uses multiple syllables for each character (but not the Korean language and hence your reasoning that Chinese is Korean-derivative) when you are so damn wrong. That's like trying to play the piano starting on the wrong note without transcribing the key signature. Chinese numbers are Chinese, not Korean or Japanese; it may have originated in India or the Arab world (even that is unlikely), but definitely not from the far far East. The NATIVE Korean numbers (hana, dul, set, net...) are Altaic, and the Chinese/Sintic (yi, er/ni, san, si..) are not derivatives of your native Korean numbers.
"Sukgeun Jung" <skj...@wam.umd.edu> wrote in message <news:ak9kss$4l4$1@gamera.cbl.umces.edu>... > I insist that the so-called Chinese character was probably invented and > developed by Korean, although the populous Chinese also have used it as > their basic writing systems. I believe the number of population of any > ethnic group should not be a factor that obscures the origin. I explain some > evidences.
> 1. The original pictographs called 'gab-gol' (bone and shell) or 'bok-sa' in > Korean were certainly invented during the Yin dynasty (or Shang state, BC > 1600~BC 1046), although it is uncertain who was the inventor. There is no > dispute regarding this matter between Korean and Chinese historians. There > are ample recent evidences that the dominant people of the Yin dynasty was > Korean, which some Chinese historians also acknowledge.
> 2. Among countries that adopted Chinese character, only Koreans use exactly > one syllable for one character. Chinese or Japanese used one or more > syllables for one character. A good example is the sounds denoting the > numbers. Only Koreans use just one syllable for one number. So, it is very > easy for Koreans to say any complex numbers quickly.
> For another example, the sound for 'white' in Chinese character in 'baek' > (one syllable) in Korean but 'bai' (two syllable) in Chinese. Regarding the > character denoting 'head', it is 'doo' in Korean but 'tou' in Chinese. On > the other hand, it is the same for the character denoting 'mountain' - > 'shan' in both Korean and Chinese.
> Why have Koreans used only one syllable for one character, but Chinese one > or more syllables? It certainly shows that Chinese pronunciation system is a > variant from Korean counterpart.
> 3. Some basic pictographs reflect Korean life-style and customs.
> For example, the character denoting 'house' (ga in Korean) contains a > character denoting a pig (hog) in the lower part. In the house, people live, > not a pig live. Why did they adopt a pig to denote a house? Only Koreans > raised pigs within their house.
> Another example is the character denoting 'sun'. The character contains a > dot within a rectangle. Why did they contain the dot, seemingly > unnecessarily? The dot denotes a golden crow. Only Koreans had the legend > linking the sun to the golden crow.
> Additional example is the character denoting 'surname' (ssi in Korean). In > Chinese, the character denotes only 'surname' while it denotes both > 'surname' and 'seed' in Korean. 'Ssi' is a most common word in Korean and > compares the pedigree with the tree (i.e., the seed is a common symbol for > the original ancestor whose trace has been handed down by his surname).
> 4. Korean history book describes the origin of written systems, which is > inscribed in dolmens in Korea.
> A Korean history book called Chun-bu-gyung records the origin of both > current Chinese character and Korean alphabet (hangul). Chinese character is > a kind of pictograph + ideograph, while hangul is the most advanced of > phonogram + ideogram in the world. Bone and shell inscriptions were a > pictograph, while hexagrams of I-ching invented by Fu Xi (Bokhwi in Korean) > are a kind of ideogram. The original character for both Chinese character > and hangul was 'Nok-doo-mun' (the most ancient writing system), according to > the Chun-bu-gyung. Currently, only Koreans still play a game called 'Yout', > which is believed to be very similar to the 'Nok-doo-mun'. The principles of > Yout game are essentially the same as I-Ching. Moreover, in Korea and > Manchuria, currently there are many ancient rocks (dolmen) in which various > kinds of primitive writings are inscribed (see some pictures at > http://myhome.shinbiro.com/~kbyon/culture/rokdo.htm)
> Based on these four facts, I strongly argue that the Chinese character was > originated and developed by Koreans. The differences in pronunciation system > for numbers between Chinese and Korean clearly indicates it's Korean origin.
> --- Footnote
> I add my message on Fu Xi and I-Ching. Fu Xi (or Bokhwi in Korean) is one of > the candidates for the inventor of Chinese characters.
> Han and 'I Ching'
> The hexagrams of the I Ching were said to have been created by the > legendary emperor 'Fu Xi' after he had contemplated on a diagram > called Ha Do that was bestowed from the Heaven. Han scholars rewrote > many myths as fact to fill gaps in early Chinese history. Fu Xi was > declared to have been the very first emperor, ruling from 2852 to 2737 > BC. He was said to have been the inventor of musical instruments and > Chinese handwriting [1].
> Chinese legend says that Fu Xi is the most senior one among the three > ancestors. Together with N-Wa, the women who he
Chinese pronounces each character with ONLY one syllable. PERIOD. You previously mentioned that the character for family/household (pronounced Jia/Chia in Mandarin, and /ga/ in Korean, Cantonese, Hakka, Fujianese and /ka/ in Japanese and Shanghainese) has a pictograph of a pig under a house. The Chinese also raised pigs in the house in ancient times as pigs were a valuable source of protein. To this day, pigs are a staple of Chinese cuisine, not beef or chicken as you might imagine from American Chinese restaurants.
All your other points are equally flawed and can be shot down as simply as above, but I have no time with your amateur ponderings. This thread is actually very amusing for a Chinese like me to read, because it shows how little the Koreans are aware of things Chinese and how little they credit the Chinese's influence on their culture and civilization. Instead they bicker about what they 'think' Chinese should be pronounced like and use that as evidence in showing that not only did the Chinese NOT influence Koreans, but the Koreans instead fathered Chinese everyday life even in numbers, words like family, and origin mythology.
At least the Japanese credit their early civilization to the Chinese. I picked up a Japanese textbook and it mentions that nearly 70% of Japanese vocabularly is directly borrowed from Chinese or Chinese-derived. Your ignorance of Chinese civilization and its linguistic impact on Korean (nearly transforming a completely unrelated Altaic tongue into a Sinitic variant; Korean is today Altaic only by linguistic standards of very very basic vocabularly and greetings; all other tests such as complex grammar, substantial vocabularly origin, and idioms point it to Chinese) is disturbing to me.
"Sukgeun Jung" <skj...@wam.umd.edu> wrote in message > Imaginative post? I think I provided solid four evidences. I may have needed > only the first one, but you need to falsify all four to refute my argument.
> Let me talk about your main point. I think you tried to falsify my 2nd > evidence, i.e., Koreans use only one syllable but Chinese use more than one > syllables for one character. Are you insisting that Chinese also use just > one syllable for every Chinese character like Koreans? If not, drop your > argument on the number of syllable for a character.
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