GERMANY 1940 - - - - - - - ISRAEL 2009
John Manning
pegleg
> http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/GazaHolo/index.html
Pegleg:
Just as with the Germans, the Arabs are trying to kill the Jews....but
the Jews have a new sheriff in town.....THIS TIME....it ain't gonna
happen.....8-)
Kenneth McVay OBC
John Manning <jrob...@terra.com.br> wrote:
>
>
>http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/GazaHolo/index.html
Gosh, where are all those Israel gas chambers?
I didn't see them, so I thought I would ask.
--
"Hate propaganda is an attack on the truth-seeking process itself.
It is directed to subverting and undermining the search for truth."
(David Matas, Bloody Speech, p. 37)
The Nizkor Project: http://www.nizkor.org
CV
> In article <otCdnRzl2uZ3XOjWnZ2dnUVZ_uxi4...@giganews.com>,
> John Manning <jrobe...@terra.com.br> wrote:
>
>
>
> >http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/GazaHolo/index.html
>
> Gosh, where are all those Israel gas chambers?
> I didn't see them, so I thought I would ask.
>
This isn't just about gas chambers.The Israelis wouldn't dare go that
far because they know they couldn't hide it from the world and get
away with it.
The other abuses seen in the photos are the SAME as the abuses the
Jews suffered at the hands of the Germans. Look again at the photos.
> --
> "Hate propaganda is an attack on the truth-seeking process itself.
> It is directed to subverting and undermining the search for truth."
> (David Matas, Bloody Speech, p. 37)
> The Nizkor Project:http://www.nizkor.org
Yes. This SHOULD be a reminder to Israel NOT to oppress others like
they are doing to the Palestinians - as clearly shown in the photos.
pegleg
Pegleg:
The Arabs are trying to kill.....WIPE-OUT....the Jews! In WWII the
Jews were innocent...the Arabs are NOT.
How many Jews have there been that have strapped a bomb on themselves
to kill Arabs?!?!?! U ~tree-huggers~ are something else.
CV
There is no justification for wholesale walling off human beings and
wholesale abusing them like seen in the photos - unless you're no
different than the Nazis.
See also:
Secret Israeli database reveals full extent of illegal settlements -
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1060043.html
= =
This BBC report refers to Israel's documented war crimes in Gaza
UN backs Gaza war crimes report
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8342915.stm
Kenneth McVay OBC
CV <cvil...@terra.com.br> wrote:
>On Feb 13, 12:05�am, kmc...@shell.vex.net (Kenneth McVay OBC) wrote:
>> In article <otCdnRzl2uZ3XOjWnZ2dnUVZ_uxi4...@giganews.com>,
>> John Manning �<jrobe...@terra.com.br> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> >http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/GazaHolo/index.html
>>
>> Gosh, where are all those Israel gas chambers?
>> I didn't see them, so I thought I would ask.
>>
>
>
>This isn't just about gas chambers.The Israelis wouldn't dare go that
>far because they know they couldn't hide it from the world and get
>away with it.
>
>The other abuses seen in the photos are the SAME as the abuses the
>Jews suffered at the hands of the Germans. Look again at the photos.
Bullshit. The Einsatzgruppen - Himmler's mobile killing
squads - followed the Wehrmacht into conquered nations
and sought out Jews, who were murdered. Their bodies
were buried in mass graves. Approximately 1.2 MILLION
Jews died at their hands.
The infamous Monowitz "buna diet" subjected slave
labourers (mostly Jews) to less than 200 calories a day
- a diet DESIGNED to cause starvation within weeks.
(Prisoners at Bergen Belsen were found starving to death
in spite of the fact that the SS had over 90 tons of
foodstuffs in a warehouse a few kilometers from the
camp.)
Nothing like THIS has even been seen in Gaza:
http://nizkor.org/hweb/camps/bergen-belsen/Bergen-Belsen-00.html
The horrors of the Nazi concentration camps dwarf
anything anyone in Gaza or the West Bank could imagine,
let alone live through. I recommend "The Buchenwald
Report" for those seeking an education in reality.
Jews were subjected - deliberately - to conditions
which fostered disease. It was simply another device of
mass murder for the Nazis.
If you want to take issue with the treatment of Arabs
in Gaza, I suggest to contact the folks who agreed to
look after their welfare: The United Nations, not
Israel.
If you criticize Israel's stance with respect to
Palestine, fine - there are ample issues available
without the abject bullshit.
--
"The Nizkor website (secretly financed by the ADL and other Jewish front
organizations) is behind it." (David Irving, whining about Google's
reminder of his disgrace.) The facts:
http://nizkor.org/hweb/people/i/irving-david/judgment-00-00.html
last_per...@yahoo.com
> In article <otCdnRzl2uZ3XOjWnZ2dnUVZ_uxi4...@giganews.com>,
>
>
>
> >http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/GazaHolo/index.html
>
> Gosh, where are all those Israel gas chambers?
> I didn't see them, so I thought I would ask.
ZioNazis prefer cluster bombs, starvation and white phoshorus.
last_per...@yahoo.com
>
> > In article <otCdnRzl2uZ3XOjWnZ2dnUVZ_uxi4...@giganews.com>,
> > John Manning <jrobe...@terra.com.br> wrote:
>
> > >http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/GazaHolo/index.html
>
> > Gosh, where are all those Israel gas chambers?
> > I didn't see them, so I thought I would ask.
>
> This isn't just about gas chambers.The Israelis wouldn't dare go that
> far because they know they couldn't hide it from the world and get
> away with it.
Bingo.
> The other abuses seen in the photos are the SAME as the abuses the
> Jews suffered at the hands of the Germans. Look again at the photos.
Kenny isn't interested in anything but the few shekels he gets for
being
a goy ZioNazi shill.
last_per...@yahoo.com
> On Feb 13, 8:12 am, CV <cvilla...@terra.com.br> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Feb 13, 12:05 am, kmc...@shell.vex.net (Kenneth McVay OBC) wrote:
>
> > > In article <otCdnRzl2uZ3XOjWnZ2dnUVZ_uxi4...@giganews.com>,
> > > John Manning <jrobe...@terra.com.br> wrote:
>
> > > >http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/GazaHolo/index.html
>
> > > Gosh, where are all those Israel gas chambers?
> > > I didn't see them, so I thought I would ask.
>
> > This isn't just about gas chambers.The Israelis wouldn't dare go that
> > far because they know they couldn't hide it from the world and get
> > away with it.
>
> > The other abuses seen in the photos are the SAME as the abuses the
> > Jews suffered at the hands of the Germans. Look again at the photos.
>
> > > --
> > > "Hate propaganda is an attack on the truth-seeking process itself.
> > > It is directed to subverting and undermining the search for truth."
> > > (David Matas, Bloody Speech, p. 37)
> > > The Nizkor Project:http://www.nizkor.org
>
> > Yes. This SHOULD be a reminder to Israel NOT to oppress others like
> > they are doing to the Palestinians - as clearly shown in the photos.
>
> Pegleg:
>
> The Arabs are trying to kill.....WIPE-OUT....the Jews! In WWII the
> Jews were innocent...
Do a little research on what they were doing to Germany in the years
prior. Of course I don't expect any idiot who writes what you write
to actually do it.
>the Arabs are NOT.
> How many Jews have there been that have strapped a bomb on themselves
> to kill Arabs?!?!?!
It's all they can do to retaliate against the crimes committed against
them,
shit-for-brains.
> U ~tree-huggers~ are something else.
Idiot.
pegleg
Pegleg:
You are not seeing clearly.... Israel is at WAR....for it's very
existence. NOWHERE is it written that the nation of Israel is to go as
~sheep to the slaughter~! Just the opposite....they are to FIGHT for
what God has given to them.
The ~ones~ to go as ~sheep to the slaughter~ is the CURCH that Jesus
Christ started.
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation,
or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or
sword? 36 As it is written:
"For Your sake we are killed all day long;
We are accounted as sheep for the slaughter."
37 Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who
loved us. 38 For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor
angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to
come, 39 nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be
able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our
Lord.
Romans 8:34-39 (NKJV)
> See also:
>
> Secret Israeli database reveals full extent of illegal settlements -http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1060043.html
>
> = =
>
> This BBC report refers to Israel's documented war crimes in Gaza
>
> UN backs Gaza war crimes reporthttp://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8342915.stm- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
John Manning
Another religious psycho. 'plonk'
CV
> In article <dc58c5db-ba4e-4bd8-9e2f-c21c4f236...@x22g2000yqx.googlegroups.com>,
>
>
>
> CV <cvilla...@terra.com.br> wrote:
> >On Feb 13, 12:05 am, kmc...@shell.vex.net (Kenneth McVay OBC) wrote:
> >> In article <otCdnRzl2uZ3XOjWnZ2dnUVZ_uxi4...@giganews.com>,
> >> John Manning <jrobe...@terra.com.br> wrote:
>
> >> >http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/GazaHolo/index.html
>
> >> Gosh, where are all those Israel gas chambers?
> >> I didn't see them, so I thought I would ask.
>
> >This isn't just about gas chambers.The Israelis wouldn't dare go that
> >far because they know they couldn't hide it from the world and get
> >away with it.
>
> >The other abuses seen in the photos are the SAME as the abuses the
> >Jews suffered at the hands of the Germans. Look again at the photos.
>
> Bullshit. The Einsatzgruppen - Himmler's mobile killing
> squads - followed the Wehrmacht into conquered nations
> and sought out Jews, who were murdered.
You're not paying attention, asshole. No one is saying that Israel is
doing all those ugly things that you list below. The photos however DO
show the abuse that Israel HAS BEEN committing - just as THOSE
PARTICULAR ABUSES IN THE PHOTOS were committed by the Germans against
the Jews.
Now read the above 2 sentences again until you understand what those
sentences say.
And after you do that, if you have the balls, read the following:
Secret Israeli database reveals full extent of illegal settlements -
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1060043.html
= =
This BBC report refers to Israel's documented war crimes in Gaza
UN backs Gaza war crimes report
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8342915.stm
drahcir
>
> > In article <otCdnRzl2uZ3XOjWnZ2dnUVZ_uxi4...@giganews.com>,
> > John Manning <jrobe...@terra.com.br> wrote:
>
> > >http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/GazaHolo/index.html
>
> > Gosh, where are all those Israel gas chambers?
> > I didn't see them, so I thought I would ask.
>
> This isn't just about gas chambers.The Israelis wouldn't dare go that
> far because they know they couldn't hide it from the world and get
> away with it.
>
> The other abuses seen in the photos are the SAME as the abuses the
> Jews suffered at the hands of the Germans. Look again at the photos.
How about the mass shootings? Any typhus in the "camps"? Mass
starvation? In other words HOW MANY MILLIONS ARE KILLED BY
EXTERMINATION? Hundreds of thousands? hundreds? ...tens...? It's
amazing how easy it is to get a cretin like you to lap up shit and
have you then say it tastes great.
drahcir
that'll show him, john
>
>
>
> >> See also:
>
> >> Secret Israeli database reveals full extent of illegal settlements -http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1060043.html
>
> >> = =
>
> >> This BBC report refers to Israel's documented war crimes in Gaza
>
> >> UN backs Gaza war crimes reporthttp://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8342915.stm-Hide quoted text -
CV
> On Feb 13, 8:12 am, CV <cvilla...@terra.com.br> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Feb 13, 12:05 am, kmc...@shell.vex.net (Kenneth McVay OBC) wrote:
>
> > > In article <otCdnRzl2uZ3XOjWnZ2dnUVZ_uxi4...@giganews.com>,
> > > John Manning <jrobe...@terra.com.br> wrote:
>
> > > >http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/GazaHolo/index.html
>
> > > Gosh, where are all those Israel gas chambers?
> > > I didn't see them, so I thought I would ask.
>
> > This isn't just about gas chambers.The Israelis wouldn't dare go that
> > far because they know they couldn't hide it from the world and get
> > away with it.
>
> > The other abuses seen in the photos are the SAME as the abuses the
> > Jews suffered at the hands of the Germans. Look again at the photos.
>
> How about the mass shootings? Any typhus in the "camps"? Mass
> starvation? In other words HOW MANY MILLIONS ARE KILLED BY
> EXTERMINATION? Hundreds of thousands? hundreds? ...tens...? It's
> amazing how easy it is to get a cretin like you to lap up shit and
> have you then say it tastes great.
>
You're also not paying attention, asshole. No one is saying that
Israel is
doing all those ugly things that you list. The photos however DO
show the abuses that Israel HAS BEEN committing - just as THOSE
PARTICULAR ABUSES IN THE PHOTOS were committed by the Germans against
the Jews.
Now read the above 2 sentences again until you understand what those
sentences say.
And after you do that, if you have the balls, read the following:
Secret Israeli database reveals full extent of illegal settlements -
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1060043.html
= =
This BBC report refers to Israel's documented war crimes in Gaza
UN backs Gaza war crimes report
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8342915.stm
>
>
American Eagle
Thats a fact. The Geneva conventions were only for those that fight back
when Israel attacks with a mission of murder and pillage. Jewish
settlers(bloody pirates) should be open season for every gentile on
earth. The UN should put a bounty on them and little big mouth Ray-Ray.
>
>
Kenneth McVay OBC
[...]
>> Gosh, where are all those Israel gas chambers?
>> I didn't see them, so I thought I would ask.
>
>ZioNazis prefer cluster bombs, starvation and white phoshorus.
I see. That explains how the Palestinian population has
increased annually.
Thanks.
Bolt Upright
>
> Pegleg:
>
> The Arabs are trying to kill.....WIPE-OUT....the Jews! In WWII the
> Jews were innocent...the Arabs are NOT.
> How many Jews have there been that have strapped a bomb on themselves
> to kill Arabs?!?!?! U ~tree-huggers~ are something else.
>
white phosphorus to use against civilians is it? When the zioscum sets
out to murder Arabs, they have much better toys than sacrifice bombers.
Bolt Upright
> In article<dc58c5db-ba4e-4bd8...@x22g2000yqx.googlegroups.com>,
> CV<cvil...@terra.com.br> wrote:
>
>> On Feb 13, 12:05 am, kmc...@shell.vex.net (Kenneth McVay OBC) wrote:
>>
>>> In article<otCdnRzl2uZ3XOjWnZ2dnUVZ_uxi4...@giganews.com>,
>>> John Manning<jrobe...@terra.com.br> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/GazaHolo/index.html
>>>>
>>> Gosh, where are all those Israel gas chambers?
>>> I didn't see them, so I thought I would ask.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> This isn't just about gas chambers.The Israelis wouldn't dare go that
>> far because they know they couldn't hide it from the world and get
>> away with it.
>>
>> The other abuses seen in the photos are the SAME as the abuses the
>> Jews suffered at the hands of the Germans. Look again at the photos.
>>
> Bullshit. The Einsatzgruppen - Himmler's mobile killing
> squads - followed the Wehrmacht into conquered nations
> and sought out Jews, who were murdered. Their bodies
> were buried in mass graves. Approximately 1.2 MILLION
> Jews died at their hands.
>
mistreatment of the Palarabs *sixty-five* *years* *later* in a different
place? Yeah, the Krauts murdered lots of Jews. How does this give the
zioscum the right to abuse Palestinian Arabs? They took the lessons
learned from the Nazis as a training manual for a future zionist top-dog
situation wheer they had domination over "untermenchen".
It would appear that they learned their lessons well.
>
>
> Nothing like THIS has even been seen in Gaza:
> http://nizkor.org/hweb/camps/bergen-belsen/Bergen-Belsen-00.html
>
Sure. Because if they tried that shit today, the people who don't
already see the zionists for what they actually are would see through
their pretense at being decent human beings. The photos speak volumes,
don't they OyVay?
> The horrors of the Nazi concentration camps dwarf
> anything anyone in Gaza or the West Bank could imagine,
> let alone live through. I recommend "The Buchenwald
> Report" for those seeking an education in reality.
>
True. It's all a matter of how much atrocity your "market" will bear.
The ziothugs couldn't get away with the most excessive of the Nazi
horrors today, but they do push the envelope as much as they think they
can get away with.
> Jews were subjected - deliberately - to conditions
> which fostered disease. It was simply another device of
> mass murder for the Nazis.
>
Which has nothing to do with the horrors of the izzie abuse of the
Palarabs. It was another time and another place; the present political
climate wouldn't allow the ziomaggots to get away with such blatant murder.
> If you want to take issue with the treatment of Arabs
> in Gaza, I suggest to contact the folks who agreed to
> look after their welfare: The United Nations, not
> Israel.
>
But, but OyVay, it's your beloved izzies that won't allow even *pasta*
to be imported to Gaza, or allow the Gazans to fish off their own coast.
How are the UN folks supposed to "look after their welfare" when even
basic foodstuffs are prohibited?
> If you criticize Israel's stance with respect to
> Palestine, fine - there are ample issues available
> without the abject bullshit.
>
>
ROTFLMAO!
OyVay, I used to have a smidgen of grudging respect for you, but I see
by this post of yours that I was mistaken. Have your paymasters upped
the ante on you or something? Suddenly you appear with transparent
arguments trying to defend the atrocious. Obviously shame, honour and
pride are qualities lacking in your constitution. I can appreciate your
documentation of the Shoah, but I am baffled by your attempted defense
of present-day izzie abuses of their captive Arab population. You are
disgusting.
Bolt Upright
> On Feb 13, 8:12 am, CV<cvilla...@terra.com.br> wrote:
>
>> On Feb 13, 12:05 am, kmc...@shell.vex.net (Kenneth McVay OBC) wrote:
>>
>>
>>> In article<otCdnRzl2uZ3XOjWnZ2dnUVZ_uxi4...@giganews.com>,
>>> John Manning<jrobe...@terra.com.br> wrote:
>>>
>>
>>>> http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/GazaHolo/index.html
>>>>
>>
>>> Gosh, where are all those Israel gas chambers?
>>> I didn't see them, so I thought I would ask.
>>>
>> This isn't just about gas chambers.The Israelis wouldn't dare go that
>> far because they know they couldn't hide it from the world and get
>> away with it.
>>
>> The other abuses seen in the photos are the SAME as the abuses the
>> Jews suffered at the hands of the Germans. Look again at the photos.
>>
> How about the mass shootings? Any typhus in the "camps"? Mass
> starvation? In other words HOW MANY MILLIONS ARE KILLED BY
> EXTERMINATION? Hundreds of thousands? hundreds? ...tens...? It's
> amazing how easy it is to get a cretin like you to lap up shit and
> have you then say it tastes great.
>
excesses are somewhat less than those of the einsatzgruppen that somehow
they become acceptable behavior. She's well aware that nobody's talking
about extermination here, but we certainly are showing oppression and
abuse.
If the facts favored her, Missy would pound the facts. Here, the facts
are clearly against her, so she's pounding the table.
Typical.
fla...@verizon.net
On 12-Feb-2010, kmc...@shell.vex.net (Kenneth McVay OBC) wrote:
> In article <otCdnRzl2uZ3XOjW...@giganews.com>,
> John Manning <jrob...@terra.com.br> wrote:
> >
> >
> >http://whatreallyhappened.com
And this jerk actually pretends that he's NOT a Jew-hater?
Is there anything on that site that is even *truthful*, much
less not hateful?
> Gosh, where are all those Israel gas chambers?
The same place all the "Palestinian pace committees" are.
> I didn't see them, so I thought I would ask.
Don't expect an answer.
Susan
Kenneth McVay OBC
Not relevant to the subject of this thread. Thank you
for playing.
Bolt Upright
> In article<21afe$4b7745ea$cf701d3d$10...@PRIMUS.CA>,
completely irrelevant to this thread. Nobody was accusing the zioscum of
wholesale murder and you know it. What was being discussed prior to your
tossing out of the red herring was the oppression
by armed thugs of a people that they deemed to be their inferiors.
drahcir
> On Feb 13, 5:28 pm, drahcir <justrichardsmu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Feb 13, 8:12 am, CV <cvilla...@terra.com.br> wrote:
>
> > > On Feb 13, 12:05 am, kmc...@shell.vex.net (Kenneth McVay OBC) wrote:
>
> > > > In article <otCdnRzl2uZ3XOjWnZ2dnUVZ_uxi4...@giganews.com>,
> > > > John Manning <jrobe...@terra.com.br> wrote:
>
> > > > >http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/GazaHolo/index.html
>
> > > > Gosh, where are all those Israel gas chambers?
> > > > I didn't see them, so I thought I would ask.
>
> > > This isn't just about gas chambers.The Israelis wouldn't dare go that
> > > far because they know they couldn't hide it from the world and get
> > > away with it.
>
> > > The other abuses seen in the photos are the SAME as the abuses the
> > > Jews suffered at the hands of the Germans. Look again at the photos.
>
> > How about the mass shootings? Any typhus in the "camps"? Mass
> > starvation? In other words HOW MANY MILLIONS ARE KILLED BY
> > EXTERMINATION? Hundreds of thousands? hundreds? ...tens...? It's
> > amazing how easy it is to get a cretin like you to lap up shit and
> > have you then say it tastes great.
>
> You're also not paying attention, asshole. No one is saying that
> Israel is
> doing all those ugly things that you list.
YOU STUPID CRETIN, IF ISRAEL IS NOT DOING ALL THE THINGS THAT I LIST,
THEN THERE IS NO VALID PARALLEL BETWEEN ISRAEL AND NAZI GERMANY.
The photos however DO
> show the abuses that Israel HAS BEEN committing - just as THOSE
> PARTICULAR ABUSES IN THE PHOTOS were committed by the Germans against
> the Jews.
I see, so what you are saying is that the Germans put up some fences,
pointed some guns, and that's about it, do I have you right now,
cretin?
>
> Now read the above 2 sentences again until you understand what those
> sentences say.
>
> And after you do that, if you have the balls, read the following:
>
> Secret Israeli database reveals full extent of illegal settlements -http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1060043.html
>
> = =
>
> This BBC report refers to Israel's documented war crimes in Gaza
>
> UN backs Gaza war crimes reporthttp://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8342915.stm
drahcir
> On 2/13/2010 2:28 PM, drahcir wrote:
>
> > On Feb 13, 8:12 am, CV<cvilla...@terra.com.br> wrote:
>
> >> On Feb 13, 12:05 am, kmc...@shell.vex.net (Kenneth McVay OBC) wrote:
>
> >>> In article<otCdnRzl2uZ3XOjWnZ2dnUVZ_uxi4...@giganews.com>,
> >>> John Manning<jrobe...@terra.com.br> wrote:
>
> >>>>http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/GazaHolo/index.html
>
> >>> Gosh, where are all those Israel gas chambers?
> >>> I didn't see them, so I thought I would ask.
>
> >> This isn't just about gas chambers.The Israelis wouldn't dare go that
> >> far because they know they couldn't hide it from the world and get
> >> away with it.
>
> >> The other abuses seen in the photos are the SAME as the abuses the
> >> Jews suffered at the hands of the Germans. Look again at the photos.
>
> > How about the mass shootings? Any typhus in the "camps"? Mass
> > starvation? In other words HOW MANY MILLIONS ARE KILLED BY
> > EXTERMINATION? Hundreds of thousands? hundreds? ...tens...? It's
> > amazing how easy it is to get a cretin like you to lap up shit and
> > have you then say it tastes great.
>
> I think that dickhead wants you to believe that because the izzie's
> excesses are somewhat less than those of the einsatzgruppen that somehow
> they become acceptable behavior.
Gar, are you so far gone that you can't keep straight anymore to whom
you are replying? Regarding the reply itself, it's so fucking stupid
it doesn't require any further comment.
Bolt Upright
this too much for your little brain to comprehend?
> She's well aware that nobody's talking
>
>> about extermination here, but we certainly are showing oppression and
>> abuse.
>> If the facts favored her, Missy would pound the facts. Here, the facts
>> are clearly against her, so she's pounding the table.
>> Typical.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> "Hate propaganda is an attack on the truth-seeking process itself.
>>>>> It is directed to subverting and undermining the search for truth."
>>>>> (David Matas, Bloody Speech, p. 37)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>> Yes. This SHOULD be a reminder to Israel NOT to oppress others like
>>>> they are doing to the Palestinians - as clearly shown in the photos.
>>>>
>
If the facts favored her, Missy would pound the facts. Here, the facts
Stewart
"Bolt Upright" <Nob...@home.com> wrote in message
news:d0c97$4b773e48$cf701d3d$61...@PRIMUS.CA...
And yet your arab brothers are too stupid to stop.
fla...@verizon.net
On 14-Feb-2010, drahcir <justrich...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> On Feb 13, 2:33�pm, CV <cvilla...@terra.com.br> wrote:
> > You're also not paying attention, asshole. No one is saying that
> > Israel is
> > doing all those ugly things that you list.
>
> YOU STUPID CRETIN, IF ISRAEL IS NOT DOING ALL THE THINGS THAT I LIST,
> THEN THERE IS NO VALID PARALLEL BETWEEN ISRAEL AND NAZI GERMANY.
Just when you think bigots can't get any dumber, they DO!
Susan
John Manning
That sounds like something a Nazi would say about Jews who wouldn't
submit to their abuses and subjugation.
drahcir
Well, actually, you were. If you care to go to the top of your post,
you'll see the first words are "on blahblah, *drahcir* wrote. You were
just quaking in your boots contemplating whether or not you could drum
up the courage to reply, you thought better of it, but then forgot
that you were still writing to me. I understand, Gar. You've been
through a lot, what with your frantically trying to extricate yourself
from my having proven you a holocaust denier and all, you're flustered
and confused. I am sure no one here will hold it against you.
I was *commenting* on your post. Is
> this too much for your little brain to comprehend?
Yes, you were. To me. By mistake. Don't you even have enough courage
to admit that?
fla...@verizon.net
On 14-Feb-2010, "Stewart" <gort...@gmail.com> wrote:
> "Bolt Upright" <Nob...@home.com> wrote in message
> news:d0c97$4b773e48$cf701d3d$61...@PRIMUS.CA...
> >>
> > Hardly necessary when you have Merkavahs, F-16s, Apache gunships and
> > white phosphorus to use against civilians is it
And the lies just keep flowing....
> When the zioscum
> > sets out to murder Arabs, they have much better toys than sacrifice
> > bombers.
Must be why we HAVEN"T wiped them all out - we
*haven't* set out to murder *anyone*.
But the lying scumwad knew that before he posted -
if only because of all the weapons he's whining about.
> And yet your arab brothers are too stupid to stop.
Because they'd rather be dead than shown to be wrong.
Susan
Stewart
"John Manning" <jrob...@terra.com.br> wrote in message
news:Scedne9g8ZZw4eXW...@giganews.com...
And you sound like the village idiot. Who gives a fuck?
Stewart
John Manning
Who gives a fuck that Israel is behaving toward the Palestinians like
the Nazis did to the Jews?
That says a whole lot about YOU, Stu.
drahcir
> Stewart wrote:
> > "John Manning" <jrobe...@terra.com.br> wrote in message
> >news:Scedne9g8ZZw4eXW...@giganews.com...
> >> Stewart wrote:
> >>> "Bolt Upright" <Nobo...@home.com> wrote in message
> >>>news:d0c97$4b773e48$cf701d3d$61...@PRIMUS.CA...
> >>>> On 2/13/2010 12:59 PM, pegleg wrote:
> >>>>> Pegleg:
>
> >>>>> The Arabs are trying to kill.....WIPE-OUT....the Jews! In WWII
> >>>>> the
> >>>>> Jews were innocent...the Arabs are NOT.
> >>>>> How many Jews have there been that have strapped a bomb on
> >>>>> themselves
> >>>>> to kill Arabs?!?!?! U ~tree-huggers~ are something else.
>
> >>>> Hardly necessary when you have Merkavahs, F-16s, Apache gunships
> >>>> and white phosphorus to use against civilians is it? When the
> >>>> zioscum sets out to murder Arabs, they have much better toys than
> >>>> sacrifice bombers.
> >>> And yet your arab brothers are too stupid to stop.
>
> >> That sounds like something a Nazi would say about Jews who wouldn't
> >> submit to their abuses and subjugation.
>
> > And you sound like the village idiot. Who gives a fuck?
>
> Who gives a fuck that Israel is behaving toward the Palestinians like
> the Nazis did to the Jews?
but it's not, John. The fact that you may "think" it does doesn't
change the fact that there is nothing in common. Nothing at all.
Bolt Upright
> By mistake.
A lie compounded.
> Don't you even have enough courage
> to admit that?
>
To admit that you're a liar? I readily "admit" this.
Bolt Upright
Thanks for playing.
drahcir
Google says it's not a lie. Perhaps you should take it up with them.
Stewart
Hmm...yes, defending themselves from attack is exactly what the nazis
did......
>
> That says a whole lot about YOU, Stu.
Opinions are just like assholes Johnny boi. Every shit for brains has
one.
Stewart
Well, yes, I do feel bad for the poor bastard for being the village
idiot. But of course, then you pop in right on queue just to prove
that there is someone even worse than dear johnny boi.
> Thanks for playing.
It seems that you only play with other bois, gestapo gary.
>
>
John Manning
These photos of the abuse of the Palestinian people by the Israelis - as
assholes like you ENDLESSLY whine about the SAME kind of treatment by
the Nazis - is a clear example of Israel's shameful hypocrisy and
unwillingness to look at THEIR OWN Nazi-like behavior.
Readers can see for them selves what the Israelis are doing to the
Palestinians - JUST LIKE the Nazis did to the Jews.
Take a look: http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/GazaHolo/index.html
THEN take a look at these two items - - -
Stewart
Another apologist for terrorism. Review this video of your brothers
in action, you swine.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t69ey1RPgps
John Manning
Watch how the Israelis have been stealing land from the Palestinians:
-Inside Israeli land grabs- : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HVa47DvwC0
AND,
Here's what Stu is too ashamed to face so he snipped it:
Stewart
What about your terrorist brothers? Your failure to condemn their
actions speaks quite loudly.
John Manning
Notice that in the last two posts. Stu has desperately tired to change
the subject from the initial topic which shows the photos of the SAME
KIND of behavior of the Isrealis toward the Palestinians as the Germans
did to the Jews.
He's so ashamed of what Israel is doing that he keeps snipping the facts:
Here's what Stu is too ashamed to face so he snipped it:
These photos of the abuse of the Palestinian people by the Israelis is a
clear example of Israel's shameful hypocrisy and unwillingness to look
at THEIR OWN Nazi-like behavior.
Readers can see for them selves what the Israelis are doing to the
Palestinians - JUST LIKE the Nazis did to the Jews.
Take a look at the photos:
http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/GazaHolo/index.html
THEN take a look at these three items - - -
Secret Israeli database reveals full extent of illegal settlements -
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1060043.html
= =
This BBC report refers to Israel's documented war crimes in Gaza
UN backs Gaza war crimes report
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8342915.stm
= =
Watch how the Israelis have been stealing land from the Palestinians:
-Inside Israeli land grabs- : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HVa47DvwC0
fla...@verizon.net
[flush most]
> > Who gives a fuck that Israel is behaving toward the Palestinians like
> > the Nazis did to the Jews?
>
> but it's not, John. The fact that you may "think" it does doesn't
> change the fact that there is nothing in common. Nothing at all.
And he actually has the nerve to pretend that
a) he doesn't hate Jews
b) anyone should ever take him seriously.
Susan
fla...@verizon.net
On 14-Feb-2010, "Stewart" <gort...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Who gives a fuck that Israel is behaving toward the Palestinians
> > like the Nazis did to the Jews?
>
> Hmm...yes, defending themselves from attack is exactly what the nazis
> did......
>
And even if one wants to lie and say that "Israel stole their land",
that would have been preferable than what the Nazis did.
And if he really wants to lie & pretend Israel is somehow
committing genocide, I would simply ask him to re-check the
population records for the past few DECADES.
Of course, he'd still lie about it, but the facts would be there.
> >
> > That says a whole lot about YOU, Stu.
>
> Opinions are just like assholes Johnny boi. Every shit for brains has
> one.
Actually, opinions are like driver's licenses - most
people have them, but it doesn't mean they are valid.
Manning is a case in point.
It's sad to see anyone claiming to be an adult who
holds opinions that are so easily debunked.
Susan
fla...@verizon.net
On 15-Feb-2010, "Stewart" <gort...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Watch how the Israelis have been stealing land from the
> > Palestinians:
>
> What about your terrorist brothers? Your failure to condemn their
> actions speaks quite loudly.
How can someone watch what never happened?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1THQ94yF1Ng&feature=PlayList&p=F732D6704C3E79D6&index=59
Susan
Stewart
Nothing to change. Self preservation is quite different than having a
lunatic personal preference to annihilation of specific groups of
people. Now, if it is your preference is to support the terrorism
that is spread through out the globe as a means to an end, it is your
right to do so....supporting fascism is, after all, accepting one's
own ignorance.
John Manning
Stewart just doesn't learn and now is making a complete fool of himself
by ONCE AGAIN trying to change the subject to avoid facing his shame.
Here's what he's TOO ASHAMED TO FACE and CONTINUES TO HIDE FROM by snipping:
These photos of the abuse of the Palestinian people by the Israelis are
a clear example of Israel's shameful hypocrisy and unwillingness to look
at THEIR OWN Nazi-like behavior.
Readers can see for them selves what the Israelis are doing to the
Palestinians - JUST LIKE the Nazis did to the Jews.
Take a look at these photos:
http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/GazaHolo/index.html
THEN take a look at these three items - - -
Secret Israeli database reveals full extent of illegal settlements -
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1060043.html
= =
This BBC report refers to Israel's documented war crimes in Gaza
UN backs Gaza war crimes report
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8342915.stm
= =
Watch how the Israelis have been stealing land from the Palestinians:
-Inside Israeli land grabs- : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HVa47DvwC0
coaste...@yahoo.com
> In article <otCdnRzl2uZ3XOjWnZ2dnUVZ_uxi4...@giganews.com>,
> John Manning <jrobe...@terra.com.br> wrote:
>
>
>
> >http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/GazaHolo/index.html
>
> Gosh, where are all those Israel gas chambers?
> I didn't see them, so I thought I would ask.
I would ask too. We all know the overall parallel isn't perfectly
synchronous. But that doesn't mean there is no truth in it. Won't you
acknowledge this?
>
> --
> "Hate propaganda is an attack on the truth-seeking process itself.
> It is directed to subverting and undermining the search for truth."
> (David Matas, Bloody Speech, p. 37)
> The Nizkor Project:http://www.nizkor.org
,
It doesn't require hate propaganda to undermine the search for truth.
It requires only the measures the Israel Lobby takes day in and day
out to corrupt and intimidate the American Congress. It takes only
credible threats to destroy a legislator's career. On the other side
it takes only bribes in the form of "political contributions". I don't
suppose there is bloody speech at work here but it sure as hell
undermines the search for truth. So, Ken, do you defend these
practices, do you oppose them or do you remain silent?
Ramon F Herrera
wrote:
A couple of points:
I figure that about 98% of the land in the Middle East is inhabited by
Muslims/Arabs, 2% by Jewish folks.
President Obama asked the USA Jewish population to help him put
pressure on the government of Israel to make more concessions to the
Palestinian.
After 9/11 there was a worldwide call to the Muslims leaders to reject
and denounce any part of their religion that says: "It is Okay to kill
people if they are infidels". The request by civilized nations fell in
deaf ears. Not a single Muslim leader, church or organization has done
the humane thing.
-Ramon
Ramon F Herrera
>
> > In article <otCdnRzl2uZ3XOjWnZ2dnUVZ_uxi4...@giganews.com>,
> > John Manning <jrobe...@terra.com.br> wrote:
>
> > >http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/GazaHolo/index.html
>
> > Gosh, where are all those Israel gas chambers?
> > I didn't see them, so I thought I would ask.
>
It is my contention (and others') that Icon is a neo-Nazi lite, sort
of an Alfie mini-me. He has distributed rare pictures of the 3rd.
Reich (from Life magazine?), and keeps on attacking Israel every
chance he gets. He was praised Hugo Chavez -who is best buddies with
Ahmadinejah... We all know the overall parallel isn't perfectly
synchronous. But that doesn't mean there is no truth in it. Won't he
acknowledge this?
-Ramon
Stewart
Wow, now you're typing in caps. Much more impressive point you make
there <sic>. Now, about the differences between self preservation and
aggressive violence as a means to an end.......
fla...@verizon.net
On 15-Feb-2010, "Stewart" <gort...@gmail.com> wrote:
> "John Manning" <jrob...@terra.com.br> wrote in message
> news:POudnbDQXfxvLuTW...@giganews.com...
[flush most of sos]
> >>
> >> What about your terrorist brothers? Your failure to condemn their
> >> actions speaks quite loudly.
> >
> > Notice that in the last two posts. Stu has desperately tired to
> > change the subject
Odd how *he* is the one changing the subject.
> > from the initial topic which shows the photos of
> > the SAME KIND of behavior of the Isrealis [sic] toward the Palestinians
> > as
> > the Germans did to the Jews.
What stupid liars these bigots are.
> Nothing to change. Self preservation is quite different than having a
> lunatic personal preference to annihilation of specific groups of
> people.
The only similarity is in the eyes of hate-filled liars.
> Now, if it is your preference is to support the terrorism
> that is spread through out the globe as a means to an end, it is your
> right to do so...
But it rather looks like hypocrisy &/or
deception for him not to acknowledge it.
Susan
fla...@verizon.net
On 15-Feb-2010, Ramon F Herrera <ra...@conexus.net> wrote:
> A couple of points:
>
> I figure that about 98% of the land in the Middle East is inhabited by
> Muslims/Arabs, 2% by Jewish folks.
>
> President Obama asked the USA Jewish population to help him put
> pressure on the government of Israel to make more concessions to the
> Palestinian.
Which some of us knew he would, which is why
we didn't vote for him. Pressureing Israel to make
concessions to terrorists is the worst thing for
America - & the rest of the world.
> After 9/11 there was a worldwide call to the Muslims leaders to reject
> and denounce any part of their religion that says: "It is Okay to kill
> people if they are infidels". The request by civilized nations fell in
> deaf ears. Not a single Muslim leader, church or organization has done
> the humane thing.
Only Turkey has begin to come close:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7264903.stm
Susan
John Manning
Stu thinks "self preservation" requires Israel to abuse the Palestinians
using the same criminal inhumane internationally recognized human rights
violations the Nazis used against the Jews.
Once again: Here's what he's TOO ASHAMED TO FACE and CONTINUES TO HIDE
FROM by snipping:
These photos of the abuse of the Palestinian people by the Israelis are
a clear example of Israel's shameful hypocrisy and unwillingness to look
at THEIR OWN Nazi-like behavior.
Readers can see for them selves what the Israelis are doing to the
Palestinians - JUST LIKE the Nazis did to the Jews.
Take a look at these photos:
http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/GazaHolo/index.html
THEN take a look at these three items - - -
Secret Israeli database reveals full extent of illegal settlements -
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1060043.html
= =
This BBC report refers to Israel's documented war crimes in Gaza
UN backs Gaza war crimes report
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8342915.stm
= =
Watch how the Israelis have been stealing land from the Palestinians:
-Inside Israeli land grabs- : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HVa47DvwC0
John Manning
That's simply not true. --- In any case it doesn't justify what you see
the Israelis doing to the Palestinians in the photos - which mirror
those same abuses the Nazis committed against the Jews.
Ramon F Herrera
That's one distorted mirror you have, John. I hope you don't use it to
shave - or to decide whether to participate in a beauty pageant.
I made 3 points: which one(s) is not true? You from the party of no or
somethin'?
-Ramon
Slim
> Stewart wrote:
> to abuse
> using the same criminal inhumane internationally recognized human rights
> violations the Nazis used
Like fake news to control the population?
John Manning
Are you asserting that the photos aren't real, Mr Herrera?
I hope you don't use it to
> shave - or to decide whether to participate in a beauty pageant.
>
> I made 3 points: which one(s) is not true? You from the party of no or
> somethin'?
>
> -Ramon
>
You *still* haven't addressed the actual topic of this thread. You're
just attempting a distraction. It's a common tactic to avoid dealing
with the issue.
Slim
> You *still* haven't addressed the actual topic You're
> just attempting a distraction. It's a common tactic to avoid dealing
> with the issue.
LOL.
Not only have you done that for years on usenet ...
Ramon F Herrera
From the immigration debates, I learned one useful -rather clever, if
I may say so myself- technique and strategy.
I support 100% the policies of the United States of America, in these
areas but not limited to:
- Current wars
- Immigration
- Foreign relations, specially the Israel
Don't care who the temporary occupant of the White House is. Have any
question? Take it up to the 1600 Penn Ave.
Having said that, the Jewish people have been historically allies of
my native continent (Latin America) and my adopted country (the US).
All known and civilized churches (even the Muslim one which
technically does not belong to the mentioned list) have expressed
their support and solidarity with the plight of the undocumented
workers. The support from the Jews have been specially welcome.
-Ramon
John Manning
Which is *once again* a dodge away from *actually addressing* the topic
of this thread.
Here's what Mr Herrera and the other cowardly apologists for Israel's
criminal human rights abuses *continue* to snip and hide from:
---These photos of the abuse of the Palestinian people by the Israelis
are a clear example of Israel's shameful hypocrisy and unwillingness to
look at THEIR OWN Nazi-like behavior.
Readers can see for them selves what the Israelis are doing to the
Palestinians - JUST LIKE the Nazis did to the Jews.
Take a look at these photos:
http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/GazaHolo/index.html
Readers can also review the following items which further reveal
Israel's *ongoing* abuses and incremental theft of Palestinian lands:
drahcir
Gentlemen, gentlemen, let's stop the bickering. John, it's very simple
- why don't you verbally describe in reply to me what you see in the
pictures, picture by picture. After determining the accuracy of your
descriptions, we will proceed to determine whether or not the actions
you describe are the actions that Nazis are infamous for. Does that
sound reasonable?
Ramon F Herrera
Who died and made you Pope of Addressing, John?
You familiar with the concept of Free Will?
You called me a liar generically (or at best you stated that I am
disseminating falsehoods). I asked which of my 3 points is a lie (or
is false). Can't defend myself until I find the charges against me.
-Ramon
John Manning
Why do you insist on changing the subject?
What do your comments have to do with the topic of this thread?
Why do you continue to snip the actual substance of the thread?
Why can't you address the topic of the thread, Mr Herrera?
Here it is again:
fla...@verizon.net
On 16-Feb-2010, Ramon F Herrera <ra...@conexus.net> wrote:
> > You *still* haven't addressed the actual topic
> > of this thread. You're just attempting a distraction.
> > It's a common tactic to avoid dealing
> > with the issue.
>
> From the immigration debates,
I bet he hasn't realized that just with this phrase alone,
you have shown that you *have* addressed the brainless
original subject header - because you demolish it.
> I learned one useful -rather clever, if
> I may say so myself- technique and strategy.
>
> I support 100% the policies of the United States of America, in these
> areas but not limited to:
>
> - Current wars
> - Immigration
> - Foreign relations, specially the Israel
>
> Don't care who the temporary occupant of the White House is. Have any
> question? Take it up to the 1600 Penn Ave.
>
> Having said that, the Jewish people have been historically allies of
> my native continent (Latin America) and my adopted country (the US).
>
> All known and civilized churches (even the Muslim one which
> technically does not belong to the mentioned list) have expressed
> their support and solidarity with the plight of the undocumented
> workers.
And since we all *know* from the world situation that the
established Arab powers have *less* than *NO* actual
interest in the so-called Palestinians, but are simply using
them as (forcing them to be!) a thorn in the side of Israel,
we are also forced to extrapolate from this that they are
using "undocumented workers" in the same way: it is all
part & parcel of the relentless quest to Islamicize the world.
They will use *every weapon* in this goal, and they know no
time frame. They incited the Crusades with this exact
attitude and behavior - this has been going on for over 1,000
years!
> The support from the Jews have been specially welcome.
"Justice, justice, shall you pursue."
Susan
fla...@verizon.net
On 16-Feb-2010, drahcir <justrich...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Gentlemen, gentlemen, let's stop the bickering. John, it's very simple
> - why don't you verbally describe in reply to me what you see in the
> pictures, picture by picture. After determining the accuracy of your
> descriptions, we will proceed to determine whether or not the actions
> you describe are the actions that Nazis are infamous for. Does that
> sound reasonable?
Yes: here's another picture he can describe for us:
http://www.nycat.org/photo_that_started.gif
Susan
Stewart
All self preservation requires in a hostile situation is survival.
What about the human rights of the helpless people in the WTC ? What
of all of the other civilians maimed and killed by the bombings,
murder and mayhem performed around the globe by your terrorist
brothers?
John Manning
What does any of that have to do with the topic of this thread???
Once again: Here's what Stewart CANNOT address:
These photos of the abuse of the Palestinian people by the Israelis are
a clear example of Israel's shameful hypocrisy and unwillingness to look
at THEIR OWN Nazi-like behavior.
Readers can see for them selves what the Israelis are doing to the
Palestinians - JUST LIKE the Nazis did to the Jews.
Take a look at these photos:
http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/GazaHolo/index.html
THEN take a look at these three items - - -
Secret Israeli database reveals full extent of illegal settlements -
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1060043.html
= =
This BBC report refers to Israel's documented war crimes in Gaza
UN backs Gaza war crimes report
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8342915.stm
= =
Watch how the Israelis have been stealing land from the Palestinians:
-Inside Israeli land grabs- : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HVa47DvwC0
Bolt Upright
"When the facts favor you, pound the facts. When the facts are against
you, pound the table". Stewie is putting a dent in the table as we type.
Michael
>
> = =
>
> This BBC report refers to Israel's documented war crimes in Gaza
>
>
> = =
>
> Watch how the Israelis have been stealing land from the Palestinians:
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
LOL!
Who are you to sit back and judge anybody about anything on usenet?
LOL!
You who are in violation of every basic human right we have and every
constitutional
right we have in the land.
John Manning
It's revealing that the only persons representing Israel's interests in
this thread are dishonest cowards.
pegleg
> Bolt Upright wrote:
> > On 2/17/2010 7:02 AM, John Manning wrote:
> >> Stewart wrote:
> >>>news:mcGdnSJl74jwN-fW...@giganews.com...
> >>>> Stewart wrote:
> >>>>> "John Manning" <jrobe...@terra.com.br> wrote in message
> >>>>>news:pPmdnRKVWurcfOTW...@giganews.com...
> >>>>>> Stewart wrote:
> >>>>>>> "John Manning" <jrobe...@terra.com.br> wrote in message
> >>>>>>>news:POudnbDQXfxvLuTW...@giganews.com...
> >>>>>>>> Stewart wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> "John Manning" <jrobe...@terra.com.br> wrote in message
> >>>>>>>>>news:NsudnaCQBqL86eTW...@giganews.com...
> >>>>>>>>>> Stewart wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>> "John Manning" <jrobe...@terra.com.br> wrote in message
> >>>>>>>>>>>news:Q_SdnRzWmu13yuTW...@giganews.com...
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Stewart wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> "John Manning" <jrobe...@terra.com.br> wrote in message
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>news:hqKdncvVi5heDuXW...@giganews.com...
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stewart wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "John Manning" <jrobe...@terra.com.br> wrote in message
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>news:Scedne9g8ZZw4eXW...@giganews.com...
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stewart wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Bolt Upright" <Nobo...@home.com> wrote in message
Pegleg:
I'm not dishonest.....nor am I a coward. That ~LAND~ was given to the
NATION ISRAEL, period. Not to some low-life Arabs. For Israel to stay
on the GOODSIDE of God.....they need to run everyone of those Arabs
OUT....
Please, feel free to put this in your pipe and smoke it!
>
>
> >> Once again: Here's what Stewart CANNOT address:
>
> >> These photos of the abuse of the Palestinian people by the Israelis
> >> are a clear example of Israel's shameful hypocrisy and unwillingness
> >> to look at THEIR OWN Nazi-like behavior.
>
> >> Readers can see for them selves what the Israelis are doing to the
> >> Palestinians - JUST LIKE the Nazis did to the Jews.
>
> >> Take a look at these photos:
> >>http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/GazaHolo/index.html
>
> >> THEN take a look at these three items - - -
>
> >> Secret Israeli database reveals full extent of illegal settlements -
> >>http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1060043.html
>
> >> = =
>
> >> This BBC report refers to Israel's documented war crimes in Gaza
>
> >> UN backs Gaza war crimes report
> >>http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8342915.stm
>
> >> = =
>
> >> Watch how the Israelis have been stealing land from the Palestinians:
>
> >> -Inside Israeli land grabs- :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HVa47DvwC0- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
fla...@verizon.net
On 16-Feb-2010, "Stewart" <gort...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Stu thinks "self preservation" requires Israel to abuse the
> > Palestinians using the same criminal inhumane internationally
> > recognized human rights violations the Nazis used against the Jews.
>
It's amazing how far bigots will go in their lies.
You have *never* said anythinglie this, & it is only Jew-
haters who even pretend that Israel does anythinglike that!
> All self preservation requires in a hostile situation is survival.
And Israel is far more compassionate than that.
Ask the bigot where Gaza gets the BULK of its food,
water, medicine & electricity & then ask him what other
nation sends in ground troops instead of strafing runs
when they are attacked; drops "bump bombs" before
actually retaliating, as well as leaflets - and STILL
sends in aid after being shot at!
> What about the human rights of the helpless people in the WTC ? What
> of all of the other civilians maimed and killed by the bombings,
> murder and mayhem performed around the globe by your terrorist
> brothers?
What about all those who pretend to be concerned for
their welfare making good on their implied promises when
they *failed* to "kill all the Jews for them" in '48!?
Susan
Bolt Upright
this supposed "god"; and if you could prove that this particular deity
had any right to be making real estate deals. How we know it was his to
give away rather than some other god? And even if it was his land, why
should we take your word that he gave it to the Jews?
That said, I like the concept of a god that dabbles in property deals.
Do you think that you could put in a word for me? I'd like a South
Pacific island, just a small one with a nice surrounding coral reef.
Call him up for me, would you?
John Manning
International law is NOT determined by anyone's religious beliefs or
from Bible verses.
And hateful, dishonest cowards like this clown who calls himself
'pegleg', are still too cowardly to face and address the Israelis' human
rights violations of the Palestinian people JUST LIKE the Nazis did to
the Jews, and the long-term incremental theft their land documented here:
coaste...@yahoo.com
Another non-sequitur apologizing for ethnic cleansers and a generally
criminal regime. Try the CriminalState site on the web. Perhaps they
can explain better than I how it is that one crime, even a Holocaust,
does not justify others. In addition, I figure that 78% of Palestine
is enough for the Israelis given the fact that as you say they have a
tiny populaton. And besides, if they don't make that concession and
withdraw from the West Bank there will be neither a settlement nor an
opportunity for America to extract herself from the Criminal State's
morbid embrace. The latter is why I'm here.
>
> President Obama asked the USA Jewish population to help him put
> pressure on the government of Israel to make more concessions to the
> Palestinian.
Concessions is really the wrong term. One makes concessions from
assets legitimately owned, not from assets everyone know are stolen as
is the case with the West Bank, Gaza and the Golan Heights. Forthright
pressure on Israel is exactly what is needed. Who better to apply it
but other Jews who recognize the absurdity of the present situation.
The spectacle of the Lobby dictating both to the Congress and to the
President of the United States is nauseating. We can defend Israel's
actual interests without giving over our Foreign Policy apparatus to
her.
>
> After 9/11 there was a worldwide call to the Muslims leaders to reject
> and denounce any part of their religion that says: "It is Okay to kill
> people if they are infidels". The request by civilized nations fell in
> deaf ears. Not a single Muslim leader, church or organization has done
> the humane thing.
False. There is a great deal of opposition to the Islamist fringe in
the Muslim World and it is expanding.
So you think we should fight Muslims to the last American in order to
protect Israel's strategic position in the Middle East? Bullshit. We
need a much lower profile there. It's time the Israelis and their
lobby got back within themselves. It's time for American Jews to think
of the welfare of their own country. We can defend Israel but she's
got to stop behaving like, yes, a fascistic regime. It's time for her
to work hard to deserve our support.
coaste...@yahoo.com
> On Feb 15, 6:49 pm, "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> > On Feb 12, 8:05 pm, kmc...@shell.vex.net (Kenneth McVay OBC) wrote:
>
> > > In article <otCdnRzl2uZ3XOjWnZ2dnUVZ_uxi4...@giganews.com>,
> > > John Manning <jrobe...@terra.com.br> wrote:
>
> > > >http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/GazaHolo/index.html
>
> > > Gosh, where are all those Israel gas chambers?
> > > I didn't see them, so I thought I would ask.
>
> of an Alfie mini-me. He has distributed rare pictures of the 3rd.
> Reich (from Life magazine?),
I've forgotten, what were those rare pictures of? And when did Life
Magazine become off-limits?
and keeps on attacking Israel every
> chance he gets.
I criticize israeli aggression and oppression of the Palestinian
people. Any humane person should. But I do it first because it is in
the interests of the United States to change the relationship we have
with her.
He was praised Hugo Chavez -who is best buddies with
> Ahmadinejah...
Chavez and Amadinejad are both clowns. One thing I admire about
Chavez, however, is that he talks back to the United States and tries
to alleviate the poverty of his people. We have no legitimate interest
in dominating Latin America and a poor record there to boot.
We all know the overall parallel isn't perfectly
> synchronous. But that doesn't mean there is no truth in it. Won't he
> acknowledge this?
I ask you, Ramon, is there no truth in the parallel photos which
started this thread? In the long run Israel is putting herself in
great danger by continuing down this road. The way to stop that is to
recognize that truth.
>
> -Ramon
John Manning
> On Feb 15, 6:49 pm, "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
[snip]
>> ,
>> It doesn't require hate propaganda to undermine the search for truth.
>> It requires only the measures the Israel Lobby takes day in and day
>> out to corrupt and intimidate the American Congress. It takes only
>> credible threats to destroy a legislator's career. On the other side
>> it takes only bribes in the form of "political contributions". I don't
>> suppose there is bloody speech at work here but it sure as hell
>> undermines the search for truth. So, Ken, do you defend these
>> practices, do you oppose them or do you remain silent?
>
> A couple of points:
>
> I figure that about 98% of the land in the Middle East is inhabited by
> Muslims/Arabs, 2% by Jewish folks.
>
> President Obama asked the USA Jewish population to help him put
> pressure on the government of Israel to make more concessions to the
> Palestinian.
> After 9/11 there was a worldwide call to the Muslims leaders to reject
> and denounce any part of their religion that says: "It is Okay to kill
> people if they are infidels". The request by civilized nations fell in
> deaf ears. Not a single Muslim leader, church or organization has done
> the humane thing.
>
> -Ramon
>
LIAR!
-Islamic Statements Against Terrorism and the 9/11 Attacks-
Source: http://www.unc.edu/~kurzman/terror.htm
Mustafa Mashhur, General Guide, Muslim Brotherhood, Egypt; Qazi Hussain
Ahmed, Ameer, Jamaat-e-Islami Pakistan, Pakistan; Muti Rahman Nizami,
Ameer, Jamaat-e-Islami Bangladesh, Bangladesh; Shaykh Ahmad Yassin,
Founder, Islamic Resistance Movement (Hamas), Palestine; Rashid
Ghannoushi, President, Nahda Renaissance Movement, Tunisia; Fazil Nour,
President, PAS - Parti Islam SeMalaysia, Malaysia; and 40 other Muslim
scholars and politicians:
“The undersigned, leaders of Islamic movements, are horrified by the
events of Tuesday 11 September 2001 in the United States which resulted
in massive killing, destruction and attack on innocent lives. We express
our deepest sympathies and sorrow. We condemn, in the strongest terms,
the incidents, which are against all human and Islamic norms. This is
grounded in the Noble Laws of Islam which forbid all forms of attacks on
innocents. God Almighty says in the Holy Qur'an: 'No bearer of burdens
can bear the burden of another' (Surah al-Isra 17:15).”
MSANews, September 14, 2001,
http://msanews.mynet.net/MSANEWS/200109/20010917.15.html;
Arabic original in al-Quds al-Arabi (London), September 14, 2001, p. 2,
http://www.alquds.co.uk:9090/pdf/2001/09Sep/14%20Sep%20Fri/Quds02.pdf
Shaykh Yusuf Qaradawi, Qatar; Tariq Bishri, Egypt; Muhammad S. Awwa,
Egypt; Fahmi Huwaydi, Egypt; Haytham Khayyat, Syria; Shaykh Taha Jabir
al-Alwani, U.S.:
“All Muslims ought to be united against all those who terrorize the
innocents, and those who permit the killing of non-combatants without a
justifiable reason. Islam has declared the spilling of blood and the
destruction of property as absolute prohibitions until the Day of
Judgment. ... [It is] necessary to apprehend the true perpetrators of
these crimes, as well as those who aid and abet them through incitement,
financing or other support. They must be brought to justice in an
impartial court of law and [punished] appropriately. ... [It is] a duty
of Muslims to participate in this effort with all possible means.”
Statement of September 27, 2001. The Washington Post, October 11, 2001,
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A40545-2001Oct10.html
Full text of this fatwa in English and Arabic.
Shaykh Muhammed Sayyid al-Tantawi, imam of al-Azhar mosque in Cairo, Egypt:
“Attacking innocent people is not courageous, it is stupid and will be
punished on the day of judgement. ... It’s not courageous to attack
innocent children, women and civilians. It is courageous to protect
freedom, it is courageous to defend oneself and not to attack.”
Agence France Presse, September 14, 2001
Abdel-Mo'tei Bayyoumi, al-Azhar Islamic Research Academy, Cairo, Egypt:
“There is no terrorism or a threat to civilians in jihad [religious
struggle].”
Al-Ahram Weekly Online, 20 - 26 September 2001,
http://www.ahram.org.eg/weekly/2001/552/p4fall3.htm
Muslim Brotherhood, an opposition Islamist group in Egypt, said it was
“horrified” by the attack and expressed “condolences and sadness”:
“[We] strongly condemn such activities that are against all humanist and
Islamic morals. ... [We] condemn and oppose all aggression on human
life, freedom and dignity anywhere in the world.”
Al-Ahram Weekly Online, 13 - 19 September 2001,
http://www.ahram.org.eg/weekly/2001/551/fo2.htm
Shaykh Muhammad Hussein Fadlallah, spiritual guide of Shi‘i Muslim
radicals in Lebanon, said he was “horrified” by these “barbaric ... crimes”:
“Beside the fact that they are forbidden by Islam, these acts do not
serve those who carried them out but their victims, who will reap the
sympathy of the whole world. ... Islamists who live according to the
human values of Islam could not commit such crimes.”
Agence France Presse, September 14, 2001
‘Abdulaziz bin ‘Abdallah Al-Ashaykh, chief mufti of Saudi Arabia:
“Firstly: the recent developments in the United States including
hijacking planes, terrorizing innocent people and shedding blood,
constitute a form of injustice that cannot be tolerated by Islam, which
views them as gross crimes and sinful acts. Secondly: any Muslim who is
aware of the teachings of his religion and who adheres to the directives
of the Holy Qur'an and the sunnah (the teachings of the Prophet
Muhammad) will never involve himself in such acts, because they will
invoke the anger of God Almighty and lead to harm and corruption on earth.”
Statement of September 15, 2001,
http://saudiembassy.net/press_release/01-spa/09-15-Islam.htm
‘Abdulaziz bin ‘Abdallah Al-Ashaykh, chief mufti of Saudi Arabia:
"You must know Islam’s firm position against all these terrible crimes.
The world must know that Islam is a religion of peace and mercy and
goodness; it is a religion of justice and guidance…Islam has forbidden
violence in all its forms. It forbids the hijacking airplanes, ships and
other means of transport, and it forbids all acts that undermine the
security of the innocent."
Hajj sermon of February 2, 2004, in "Public Statements by Senior Saudi
Officials Condemning Extremism and Promoting Moderation," May 2004,
http://www.saudiembassy.net/ReportLink/Report_Extremism_May04.pdf,
page 10
Shaikh Saleh Al-Luheidan, Chairman of the Supreme Judicial Council,
Saudi Arabia:
"As a human community we must be vigilant and careful to oppose these
pernicious and shameless evils, which are not justified by any sane
logic, nor by the religion of Islam."
Statement of September 14, 2001, in "Public Statements by Senior Saudi
Officials Condemning Extremism and Promoting Moderation," May 2004,
http://www.saudiembassy.net/ReportLink/Report_Extremism_May04.pdf,
page 6
Shaikh Saleh Al-Luheidan, Chairman of the Supreme Judicial Council,
Saudi Arabia:
"And I repeat once again: that this act that the United states was
afflicted with, with this vulgarity and barbarism, and which is even
more barbaric than terrorist acts, I say that these acts are from the
depths of depravity and the worst of evils."
Televised statement of September 2001, in Muhammad ibn Hussin
Al-Qahtani, editor, The Position of Saudi Muslim Scholars Regarding
Terrorism in the Name of Islam (Saudi Arabia, 2004), pages 27-28.
Shaykh Muhammad bin ‘Abdallah al-Sabil, member of the Council of Senior
Religious Scholars, Saudi Arabia:
“Any attack on innocent people is unlawful and contrary to shari'a
(Islamic law). ... Muslims must safeguard the lives, honor and property
of Christians and Jews. Attacking them contradicts shari'a.”
Agence France Presse, December 4, 2001
Council of Saudi ‘Ulama', fatwa of February 2003:
"What is happening in some countries from the shedding of the innocent
blood and the bombing of buildings and ships and the destruction of
public and private installations is a criminal act against Islam. ...
Those who carry out such acts have the deviant beliefs and misleading
ideologies and are responsible for the crime. Islam and Muslims should
not be held responsible for such actions."
The Dawn newspaper, Karachi, Pakistan, February 8, 2003,
http://www.dawn.com/2003/02/08/top17.htm; also in "Public Statements by
Senior Saudi Officials Condemning Extremism and Promoting Moderation,"
May 2004,
http://www.saudiembassy.net/ReportLink/Report_Extremism_May04.pdf,
page 10
Shaykh Yusuf al-Qaradawi, chairman of the Sunna and Sira Council, Qatar:
"Our hearts bleed for the attacks that has targeted the World Trade
Center [WTC], as well as other institutions in the United States despite
our strong oppositions to the American biased policy towards Israel on
the military, political and economic fronts. Islam, the religion of
tolerance, holds the human soul in high esteem, and considers the attack
against innocent human beings a grave sin, this is backed by the
Qur’anic verse which reads: ‘Who so ever kills a human being [as
punishment] for [crimes] other than manslaughter or [sowing] corruption
in the earth, it shall be as if he has killed all mankind, and who so
ever saves the life of one, it shall be as if he had saved the life of
all mankind’ (Al-Ma’idah:32)."
Statement of September 13, 2001.
http://www.islamonline.net/English/News/2001-09/13/article25.shtml.
Arabic original at
http://www.qaradawi.net/site/topics/article.asp?cu_no=2&item_no=1665&version=1&template_id=130&parent_id=17
Tahirul Qadri, head of the Awami Tehrik Party, Pakistan:
"Bombing embassies or destroying non-military installations like the
World Trade Center is no jihad. ... "[T]hose who launched the Sept. 11
terrorist attacks not only killed thousands of innocent people in the
United States but also put the lives of millions of Muslims across the
world at risk. ... Bin Laden is not a prophet that we should put
thousands of lives at risk for."
United Press International, October 18, 2001,
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2001/10/17/195606.shtml
Ayatollah Ali Khamene’i, supreme jurist-ruler of Iran:
“Killing of people, in any place and with any kind of weapons, including
atomic bombs, long-range missiles, biological or chemical weopons,
passenger or war planes, carried out by any organization, country or
individuals is condemned. ... It makes no difference whether such
massacres happen in Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Qana, Sabra, Shatila, Deir
Yassin, Bosnia, Kosovo, Iraq or in New York and Washington.”
Islamic Republic News Agency, September 16, 2001,
http://www.irna.com/en/hphoto/010916000000.ehp.shtml
President Muhammad Khatami of Iran:
“[T]he September 11 terrorist blasts in America can only be the job of a
group that have voluntarily severed their own ears and tongues, so that
the only language with which they could communicate would be destroying
and spreading death.”
Address to the United Nations General Assembly, November 9, 2001,
http://www.president.ir/cronicnews/1380/8008/800818/800818.htm#b3
League of Arab States:
“The General-Secretariat of the League of Arab States shares with the
people and government of the United States of America the feelings of
revulsion, horror and shock over the terrorist attacks that ripped
through the World Trade Centre and Pentagon, inflicting heavy damage and
killing and wounding thousands of many nationalities.
These terrorist crimes have been viewed by the League as inadmissible
and deserving all condemnation. Divergence of views between the Arabs
and the United States over the latter’s foreign policy on the Middle
East crisis does in no way adversely affect the common Arab attitude of
compassion with the people and government of the United States at such
moments of facing the menace and ruthlessness of international
terrorism. In more than one statement released since the horrendous
attacks, the League has also expressed deep sympathy with the families
of the victims. In remarks to newsmen immediately following the tragic
events, Arab League Secretary-General Amre Moussa described the feelings
of the Arab world as demonstrably sympathetic with the American people,
particularly with families and individuals who lost their loved ones.
“It is indeed tormenting that any country or people or city anywhere in
the world be the scene of such disastrous attacks,” he added. While
convinced that it is both inconceivable and lamentable that such a
large-scale, organised terrorist campaign take place anywhere, anytime,
the League believes that the dreadful attacks against WTC and the
Pentagon unveil, time and again, that the cancer of terrorism can be
extensively damaging if left unchecked.
It follows that there is a pressing and urgent need to combat world
terrorism. In this context, an earlier call by [Egyptian] President
Hosni Mubarak for convening an international conference to draw up
universal accord on ways and means to eradicate this phenomenon and
demonstrate international solidarity is worthy of active consideration.
The Arabs have walked a large distance in the fight against cross-border
terrorism by concluding in April 1998 the Arab Agreement on Combating
Terrorism.”
September 17, 2001,
http://www.leagueofarabstates.org/E_Perspectives_17_09_01.asp
Dr. Abdelouahed Belkeziz, Secretary-General of the Organization of the
Islamic Conference:
“Following the bloody attacks against major buildings and installations
in the United States yesterday, Tuesday, September 11, 2001, Dr.
Abdelouahed Belkeziz, secretary-general of the 57-nation Organization of
the Islamic Conference (OIC), stated that he was shocked and deeply
saddened when he heard of those attacks which led to the death and
injury of a very large number of innocent American citizens. Dr.
Belkeziz said he was denouncing and condemning those criminal and brutal
acts that ran counter to all covenants, humanitarian values and divine
religions foremost among which was Islam.”
Press Release, Jeddah, Saudi Arabia, September 12, 2001,
http://www.oic-oci.org/press/english/september%202001/america%20on%20attack.htm
Organization of the Islamic Conference of Foreign Ministers:
“The Conference strongly condemned the brutal terror acts that befell
the United States, caused huge losses in human lives from various
nationalities and wreaked tremendous destruction and damage in New York
and Washington. It further reaffirmed that these terror acts ran counter
to the teachings of the divine religions as well as ethical and human
values, stressed the necessity of tracking down the perpetrators of
these acts in the light of the results of investigations and bringing
them to justice to inflict on them the penalty they deserve, and
underscored its support of this effort. In this respect, the Conference
expressed its condolences to and sympathy with the people and government
of the United States and the families of the victims in these mournful
and tragic circumstances.”
Final Communique of the Ninth Extraordinary Session of the Islamic
Conference of Foreign Ministers, October 10, 2001,
http://www.oic-oci.org/english/fm/All%20Download/frmex9.htm
Organization of the Islamic Conference, Summit Conference:
"We are determined to fight terrorism in all its forms. ... Islam is the
religion of moderation. It rejects extremism and isolation. There is a
need to confront deviant ideology where it appears, including in school
curricula. Islam is the religion of diversity and tolerance."
Daily Star (Beirut, Lebanon), December 9, 2005,
http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article.asp?edition_id=10&categ_id=2&article_id=20641
Mehmet Nuri Yilmaz, Head of the Directorate of Religious Affairs of Turkey:
“Any human being, regardless of his ethnic and religious origin, will
never think of carrying out such a violent, evil attack. Whatever its
purpose is, this action cannot be justified and tolerated.”
Mehmet Nuri Yilmaz, “A Message on Ragaib Night and Terrorism,” September
21, 2001, http://www.diyanet.gov.tr/duyurular/regaibing.htm
Harun Yahya (Adnan Oktar), Turkish author:
“Islam does not encourage any kind of terrorism; in fact, it denounces
it. Those who use terrorism in the name of Islam, in fact, have no other
faculty except ignorance and hatred.”
Harun Yahya, “Islam Denounces Terrorism,”
http://www.islamdenouncesterrorism.com
Shaikh Muhammad Yusuf Islahi, Pakistani-American Muslim leader:
“The sudden barbaric attack on innocent citizens living in peace is
extremely distressing and deplorable. Every gentle human heart goes out
to the victims of this attack and as humans we are ashamed at the
barbarism perpetrated by a few people. Islam, which is a religion of
peace and tolerance, condemns this act and sees this is as a wounding
scar on the face of humanity. I appeal to Muslims to strongly condemn
this act, express unity with the victims' relatives, donate blood, money
and do whatever it takes to help the affected people.”
“Messages From Shaikh Muhammad Yusuf Islahi,”
http://www.icna.org/wtc_islahi.htm
Abdal-Hakim Murad, British Muslim author:
“Targeting civilians is a negation of every possible school of Sunni
Islam. Suicide bombing is so foreign to the Quranic ethos that the
Prophet Samson is entirely absent from our scriptures.”
“The Hijackers Were Not Muslims After All: Recapturing Islam From the
Terrorists,” http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/masud/ISLAM/ahm/recapturing.htm
Syed Mumtaz Ali, President of the Canadian Society of Muslims:
“We condemn in the strongest terms possible what are apparently vicious
and cowardly acts of terrorism against innocent civilians. We join with
all Canadians in calling for the swift apprehension and punishment of
the perpetrators. No political cause could ever be assisted by such
immoral acts.”
Canadian Society of Muslims, Media Release, September 12, 2001,
http://muslim-canada.org/news09112001.html
15 American Muslim organizations:
“We reiterate our unequivocal condemnation of the crime committed on
September 11, 2001 and join our fellow Americans in mourning the loss of
up to 6000 innocent civilians.”
Muslim American Society (MAS), Islamic Circle of North America (ICNA),
Council on American Islamic Relations (CAIR), Muslim Alliance of North
America (MANA), Muslim Student Association (MSA), Islamic Association
for Palestine (IAP), United Association for Studies and Research (UASR),
Solidarity International, American Muslims for Global Peace and Justice
(AMGPJ), American Muslim Alliance (AMA), United Muslim Americans
Association (UMAA), Islamic Media Foundation (IMF), American Muslim
Foundation (AMF), Coordinating Council of Muslim Organizations (CCMO),
American Muslims for Jerusalem (AMJ), Muslim Arab Youth Association
(MAYA), October 22, 2001, http://www.icna.org/wtc_pr.htm
57 leaders of North American Islamic organizations, 77 intellectuals,
and dozens of concerned citizens:
“As American Muslims and scholars of Islam, we wish to restate our
conviction that peace and justice constitute the basic principles of the
Muslim faith. We wish again to state unequivocally that neither the
al-Qaeda organization nor Usama bin Laden represents Islam or reflects
Muslim beliefs and practice. Rather, groups like al-Qaeda have misused
and abused Islam in order to fit their own radical and indeed
anti-Islamic agenda. Usama bin Laden and al-Qaeda's actions are
criminal, misguided and counter to the true teachings of Islam.”
Statement Rejecting Terrorism, September 9, 2002,
http://www.islam-democracy.org/terrorism_statement.asp
American Muslim Political Coordination Council:
“American Muslims utterly condemn what are apparently vicious and
cowardly acts of terrorism against innocent civilians. We join with all
Americans in calling for the swift apprehension and punishment of the
perpetrators. No political cause could ever be assisted by such immoral
acts.”
http://capwiz.com/cair/issues/alert/?alertid=49818&type=CU&azip=
Dr. Agha Saeed, National Chair of the American Muslim Alliance:
“These attacks are against both divine and human laws and we condemn
them in the strongest terms. The Muslim Americans join the nation in
calling for swift apprehension and stiff punishment of the perpetrators,
and offer our sympathies to the victims and their families.”
http://www.amaweb.org/AMA%20Condemns.html
Hamza Yusuf, American Muslim leader:
“Religious zealots of any creed are defeated people who lash out in
desperation, and they often do horrific things. And if these people [who
committed murder on September 11] indeed are Arabs, Muslims, they're
obviously very sick people and I can't even look at it in religious
terms. It's politics, tragic politics. There's no Islamic justification
for any of it. ... You can't kill innocent people. There's no Islamic
declaration of war against the United States. I think every Muslim
country except Afghanistan has an embassy in this country. And in Islam,
a country where you have embassies is not considered a belligerent
country. In Islam, the only wars that are permitted are between armies
and they should engage on battlefields and engage nobly. The Prophet
Muhammad said, ``Do not kill women or children or non-combatants and do
not kill old people or religious people,'' and he mentioned priests,
nuns and rabbis. And he said, ``Do not cut down fruit-bearing trees and
do not poison the wells of your enemies.'' The Hadith, the sayings of
the Prophet, say that no one can punish with fire except the lord of
fire. It's prohibited to burn anyone in Islam as a punishment. No one
can grant these attackers any legitimacy. It was evil.”
San Jose Mercury News, September 15, 2001,
http://www0.mercurycenter.com/local/center/isl0916.htm
Nuh Ha Mim Keller, American Muslim author:
“Muslims have nothing to be ashamed of, and nothing to hide, and should
simply tell people what their scholars and religious leaders have always
said: first, that the Wahhabi sect has nothing to do with orthodox
Islam, for its lack of tolerance is a perversion of traditional values;
and second, that killing civilians is wrong and immoral.”
“Making the World Safe for Terrorism,” September 30, 2001,
http://66.34.131.5/ISLAM/nuh/terrorism.htm
Yusuf Islam (formerly Cat Stevens), prominent British Muslim:
"I wish to express my heartfelt horror at the indiscriminate terrorist
attacks committed against innocent people of the United States
yesterday. While it is still not clear who carried out the attack, it
must be stated that no right thinking follower of Islam could possibly
condone such an action: the Qur'an equates the murder of one innocent
person with the murder of the whole of humanity. We pray for the
families of all those who lost their lives in this unthinkable act of
violence as well as all those injured; I hope to reflect the feelings of
all Muslims and people around the world whose sympathies go out to the
victims at this sorrowful moment."
[On singing an a cappella version of "Peace Train" for the Concert for
New York City:] "After the tragedy, my heart was heavy with sadness and
shock, and I was determined to help in some way. Organizers asked me to
take part in a message for tolerance and sing 'Peace Train.' Of course,
I agreed. ... As a Muslim from the West, it is important to me to let
people know that these acts of mass murder have nothing to do with Islam
and the beliefs of Muslims."
Press release of September 13, 2001, and PR Newswire, October 22, 2001,
both at http://www.mountainoflight.co.uk/pages/news/2001.html
Muslims Against Terrorism, a U.S.-based organization:
“As Muslims, we condemn terrorism in all its forms and manifestations.
Ours is a religion of peace. We are sick and tired of extremists
dictating the public face of Islam.”
http://www.muslimsagainstterrorism.org/aboutus.html.
This statement has been replaced by a new statement in favor of peace by
the group's successor organization, Muslim Voices for Peace,
http://www.mvp-us.org.
Abdulaziz Sachedina, professor of religious studies, University of Virginia:
“New York was grieving. Sorrow covered the horizons. The pain of
separation and of missing family members, neighbors, citizens, humans
could be felt in every corner of the country. That day was my personal
day of “jihad” (“struggle”) - jihad with my pride and my identity as a
Muslim. This is the true meaning of jihad – “struggle with one’s own
ego and false pride.” I don’t ever recall that I had prayed so
earnestly to God to spare attribution of such madness that was unleashed
upon New York and Washington to the Muslims. I felt the pain and,
perhaps for the first time in my entire life, I felt embarrassed at the
thought that it could very well be my fellow Muslims who had committed
this horrendous act of terrorism. How could these terrorists invoke
God’s mercifulness and compassion when they had, through their evil act,
put to shame the entire history of this great religion and its culture
of toleration?”
“Where Was God on September 11?,"
http://www.virginia.edu/~soasia/newsletter/Fall01/God.html
Ali Khan, professor of law, Washburn University School of Law:
“To the most learned in the text of the Quran, these verses must be read
in the context of many other verses that stipulate the Islamic law of
war---a war that the Islamic leader must declare after due consultation
with advisers. For the less learned, however, these verses may provide
the motivation and even the plot for a merciless strike against a
self-chosen enemy.”
“Attack on America: An Islamic Perspective, September 17, 2001,
http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/forum/forumnew29.htm
Muqtedar Khan, assistant professor of political science, Adrian College,
Michigan, USA:
“What happened on September 11th in New York and Washington DC will
forever remain a horrible scar on the history of Islam and humanity. No
matter how much we condemn it, and point to the Quran and the Sunnah to
argue that Islam forbids the killing of innocent people, the fact
remains that the perpetrators of this crime against humanity have
indicated that their actions are sanctioned by Islamic values. The fact
that even now several Muslim scholars and thousands of Muslims defend
the accused is indicative that not all Muslims believe that the attacks
are unIslamic. This is truly sad. ... If anywhere in your hearts there
is any sympathy or understanding with those who committed this act, I
invite you to ask yourself this question, would Muhammad (pbuh) sanction
such an act? While encouraging Muslims to struggle against injustice (Al
Quran 4:135), Allah also imposes strict rules of engagement. He says in
unequivocal terms that to kill an innocent being is like killing entire
humanity (Al Quran 5:32). He also encourages Muslims to forgive Jews and
Christians if they have committed injustices against us (Al Quran 2:109,
3:159, 5:85).”
“Memo to American Muslims,” October 5, 2001, http://www.ijtihad.org/memo.htm
Dr. Alaa Al-Yousuf, Bahraini economist and political activist:
“On Friday, 14 September [the first Friday prayers after 11 September],
almost the whole world expressed its condemnation of the crime and its
grief for the bereaved families of the victims. Those who abstained or,
even worse, rejoiced, will have joined the terrorists, not in the
murder, but in adding to the incalculable damage on the other victims of
the atrocity, namely, Islam as a faith, Muslims and Arabs as peoples,
and possibly the Palestinian cause. The terrorists and their apologists
managed to sully Islam as a faith both in the eyes of many Muslims and
non-Muslims alike.”
Interview with the International Forum for Islamic Dialogue, London,
http://www.islam21.net/pages/keyissues/key7-6.htm
Dr. S. Parvez Manzoor, Swedish-based Muslim author:
“If these acts of terror indeed have been perpetrated by Muslim radicals
or fundamentalists, they have reaped nothing but eternal damnation,
shame and ignominy. For nothing, absolutely nothing, could remotely be
advanced as an excuse for these barbaric acts. They represent a total
negation of Islamic values, an utter disregard of our fiqhi tradition,
and a slap in the face of the Ummah. They are in total contrast to what
Islamic reason, compassion and faith stand for. Even from the more
mundane criteria of common good, the maslaha of the jurists, these acts
are treasonous and suicidal. Islamic faith has been so callously and
casually sacrificed at the altar of politics, a home-grown politics of
parochial causes, primeval passions, self-endorsing piety and messianic
terror.”
Interview with the International Forum for Islamic Dialogue, London,
http://www.islam21.net/pages/keyissues/key7-6.htm
Anwar Ibrahim, Malaysian Islamic activist and former deputy prime minister:
“Never in Islam's entire history has the action of so few of its
followers caused the religion and its community of believers to be such
an abomination in the eyes of others. Millions of Muslims who fled to
North America and Europe to escape poverty and persecution at home have
become the object of hatred and are now profiled as potential
terrorists. And the nascent democratic movements in Muslim countries
will regress for a few decades as ruling autocrats use their
participation in the global war against terrorism to terrorize their
critics and dissenters. This is what Mohammed Atta and his fellow
terrorists and sponsors have done to Islam and its community worldwide
by their murder of innocents at the World Trade Center in New York and
the Defense Depart-ment in Washington. The attack must be condemned, and
the condemnation must be without reservation.”
Anwar Ibrahim, “Growth of Democracy Is the Answer to Terrorism,”
International Herald Tribune, October 11, 2001,
http://www.iht.com/articles/35281.htm
Ziauddin Sardar, British Muslim author:
“The failure of Islamic movements is their inability to come to terms
with modernity, to give modernity a sustainable home-grown expression.
Instead of engaging with the abundant problems that bedevil Muslim
lives, the Islamic prescription consists of blind following of narrow
pieties and slavish submission to inept obscurantists. Instead of
engagement with the wider world, they have made Islam into an ethic of
separation, separate under-development, and negation of the rest of the
world.”
Ziauddin Sardar, “Islam has become its own enemy,” The Observer, October
21, 2001,
http://www.observer.co.uk/waronterrorism/story/0,1373,577942,00.html
Khaled Abou El Fadl, Kuwaiti-Egyptian-American legal scholar:
“It would be disingenuous to deny that the Qur'an and other Islamic
sources offer possibilities of intolerant interpretation. Clearly these
possibilities are exploited by the contemporary puritans and
supremacists. But the text does not command such intolerant readings.
Historically, Islamic civilization has displayed a remarkable ability to
recognize possibilities of tolerance, and to act upon these possibilities.”
Khaled Abou El Fadl, “The Place of Tolerance in Islam: On Reading the
Qur'an -- and Misreading It,” Boston Review, December 2001/January 2002,
http://bostonreview.mit.edu/BR26.6/elfadl.html
Sheikh Muhammad Ali Al-Hanooti, Palestinian-American mufti and member of
the North American Fiqh Council:
“The people who attacked the WTC and Pentagon and hijacked the forth
plane that crashed in Pennsylvania are criminal who deserve the severest
punishment as the Quran elaborates. They are murderers and terrorists.
If there were any person who felt happy for that incident we would not
be able to equate them with those criminals, but we can say no one with
faith and ethics would accept anything of that murder and targeting of
innocent people.”
Sheikh Muhammad Ali Al-Hanooti, "Fatwa Session on Latest Tragic Events,"
IslamOnline, September 20, 2001,
http://www.islamonline.net/livefatwa/english/Browse.asp?hGuestID=pdwD2E
Syed Shahabuddin, Indian Muslim author:
“Islam prohibits terrorism as well as suicide. Jihad is neither and has
no place for taking innocent lives or one’s own life. No cause,
howsoever noble or just, can justify terrorism. So while one may
sympathize with the legitimate aspirations of the Palestinian people and
support their claim to a state of their own, while one may appreciate
the democratic awakening among the people of many Muslim states and
uphold their demand for withdrawal of foreign presence from their soil
and support their struggle for revision of the terms of trade for their
natural resources, no thinking Muslim can go along with the use of
terrorism for securing political goals.”
Syed Shahabuddin, "Global war against terrorism – the Islamic
dimension," Milli Gazette newspaper, New Delhi, India, November 1, 2001,
http://www.milligazette.com/Archives/01112001/34.htm
Dr. M. A. Zaki Badawi, principal of the Muslim College, London, England:
“Neither the law of Islam nor its ethical system justify such a crime.”
Dr. M. A. Zaki Badawi, "Terrorism has no place in Islam," Arab News,
Jiddah-Riyadh-Dhahran, Saudi Arabia, September 28, 2001,
http://www.arabnews.com/?page=5§ion=0&article=9314&d=28&m=9&y=2001
Mufti Nizamuddin Shamzai, head mufti at Jamiat-ul-Uloom-ul-Islamia
seminary, Binori Town, Pakistan and a leader of the Jamiat Ulema-e-Islam
(JUI) party, Pakistan:
“It's wrong to kill innocent people. ... It's also wrong to praise those
who kill innocent people.”
The New York Times, September 28, 2001, p. B3
Shaykh Omar Bakri, leader of al-Muhajirun, a radical Islamist movement
based in London, England:
“If Islamists did it -- and most likely it is Islamists, because of the
nature of what happened -- then they have fully misunderstood the
teachings of Islam. ... Even the most radical of us have condemned this.
I am always considered to be a radical in the Islamic world and even I
condemn it.”
The Gazette (Montreal, Quebec, Canada), September 13, 2001, p. B6
Zuhair Qudah, a preacher at al-Lawzieen mosque, Amman, Jordan:
"We stand by our Palestinian brothers in their struggle to end the
occupation, but we don't condone violence, ugly crimes and the killing
of innocent people."
Associated Press, September 14, 2001
Salih bin Muhammad Lahidan, chairman of the Supreme Judicial Council,
Saudi Arabia:
“Killing the weak, infants, women, and the elderly, and destroying
property, are considered serious crimes in Islam. . . . Viewing on the
TV networks what happened to the twin towers . . . was like watching
doomsday. Those who commit such crimes are the worst of people. Anyone
who thinks that any Islamic scholar will condone such acts is totally
wrong. . . . This barbaric act is not justified by any sane mind-set. .
. . This act is pernicious and shameless and evil in the extreme.”
The Washington Post, October 13, 2001, p. B9
Shaykh Rached Ghannouchi, chairman of Tunisia's an-Nahda Movement, in
exile in London, England:
“Such destruction can only be condemned by any Muslim, however resentful
one may be of America's biased policies supporting occupation in
Palestine, as an unacceptable attack on thousands of innocent people
having no relation to American policies. Anyone familiar with Islam has
no doubt about its rejection of collective punishment, based on the
well-known Quranic principle that 'no bearer of burdens can bear the
burden of another.'”
The Washington Post, October 13, 2001, p. B9
Shaykh Salih al-Suhaymi, religious scholar, Saudi Arabia:
“Based upon what has preceded, then we say that that which we believe
and hold as our religion concerning what happened to the World Trade
Centre in America – and in Allah lies success – that the terrorist
attacks that took place and what occurred of general (mass) killing,
then it is not permissible and Islaam does not allow it in any form
whatsoever.”
"Shaykh Saalih as-Suhaymee speaks about current affairs...," October 18,
2001, translated by Abu 'Iyaad, http://www.fatwaonline.com/news/0011018.htm
Dr. Sayed G. Safavi, Iranian religious scholar and director of the
Institute of Islamic Studies, London, England:
“The targeting of innocent persons cannot be allowed. Islam is against
any form of terrorism, whether it be carried out by an individual, a
group or a state. ... For Muslims to kill civilians unconnected with any
attack on them is a crime. The principal law of Islam is: don't attack
civilians. This includes civilians of any faith, whether Jewish, Muslim
or Christian. According to Islam, all people are the family of God. The
target of religion is peace.”
Letter to the Editor, The Daily Telegraph, London, England, June 30,
2003,
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2003/06/30/dt3001.xml
Iqbal Siddiqui, editor of Crescent International, London, England:
“History also teaches us that the only effective way of challenging
oppression and the only effective way of fighting injustice is through
force; that is simply the way of the world. Pacifism is all too often a
weapon of the status quo.... When Islamic movements in the world do need
to resort to the use of force, that force must be used morally. When
extreme fringes of those movements are pushed to use force
indiscriminately, immorally, wrongly against illegitimate targets, and
using illegitimate weapons (such [as] hijacked jumbo jets), those are
crimes for which the people who share their cause, who share their view
of the world, their understanding of the need to use force, must also
criticise them, turn against them, isolate them. Our standards must be
higher than those of the people whom we are fighting, because if we
descend to their standards then there is no difference between us.”
Iqbal Siddiqui, "Terrorism and political violence in contemporary
history," Conference on Terrorism, Institute of Islamic Studies, London,
England, November 13, 2001, published in Muslimedia International,
February 16-28, 2002,
http://www.muslimedia.com/archives/movement02/terror-hist.htm.
Earlier version on-line at
http://www.islamic-studies.org/terrorconfer.pro.htm
Islamway website:
"In light of these and other Islamic texts, the act of inciting terror
in the hearts of defenseless civilians, the wholesale destruction of
buildings and properties, the bombing and maiming of innocent men,
women, and children are all forbidden and detestable acts according to
Islam and the Muslims."
"What Does Islam Say About Terrorism?"
http://english.islamway.com/bindex.php?section=article&id=126
Islamic Commission of Spain:
"Muslims, therefore, are not only forbidden from committing crimes
against innocent people, but are responsible before God to stop those
people who have the intention to do so, since these people 'are planting
the seeds of corruption on Earth'.... The perpetration of terrorist acts
supposes a rupture of such magnitude with Islamic teaching that it
allows to affirm that the individuals or groups who have perpetrated
them have stopped being Muslim and have put themselves outside the
sphere of Islam."
"Text of the Fatwa Declared Against Osama Bin Laden by the Islamic
Commission of Spain," March 17, 2005, http://webislam.com/?idn=537;
original Spanish version: "La Comisión Islámica de España emite una
fatua condenando el terrorismo y al grupo Al Qaida," March 10, 2005,
http://www.webislam.com/?idn=399.
Fatwa signed by more than 500 British Muslim scholars, clerics, and imams:
"Islam strictly, strongly and severely condemns the use of violence and
the destruction of innocent lives. There is neither place nor
justification in Islam for extremism, fanaticism or terrorism. Suicide
bombings, which killed and injured innocent people in London, are HARAAM
- vehemently prohibited in Islam, and those who committed these barbaric
acts in London [on July 7, 2005] are criminals not martyrs. Such acts,
as perpetrated in London, are crimes against all of humanity and
contrary to the teachings of Islam. ...
The Holy Quran declares: 'Whoever kills a human being… then it is as
though he has killed all mankind; and whoever saves a human life, it is
as though he had saved all mankind.' (Quran, Surah al-Maidah (5), verse
32) Islam’s position is clear and unequivocal: Murder of one soul is the
murder of the whole of humanity; he who shows no respect for human life
is an enemy of humanity."
British Muslim Forum, press release of July 18, 2005,
http://www.britishmuslimforum.org/view_press_release.php?id=26.
Fiqh Council of North America, an association of 18 Muslim legal
scholars, fatwa endorsed by the Council on American-Islamic Relations
(CAIR), the Islamic Society of North America (ISNA), the Muslim American
Society (MAS), the Association of Muslim Social Scientists (AMSS), the
Association of Muslim Scientists and Engineers (AMSE), the Muslim Public
Affairs Council (MPAC), and more than 130 Muslim organizations, mosques
and leaders in the United States:
"We have consistently condemned terrorism and extremism in all forms and
under all circumstances, and we reiterate this unequivocal position.
Islam strictly condemns religious extremism and the use of violence
against innocent lives. There is no justification in Islam for extremism
or terrorism. Targeting civilians' life and property through suicide
bombings or any other method of attack is haram - prohibited in Islam -
and those who commit these barbaric acts are criminals, not 'martyrs.'"
"Fatwa by U.S. Muslims Against Religious Extremism," July 25, 2005,
http://www.mpac.org/bucket_downloads/fatwa-on-terrorism.pdf.
Islamic Society of North America, Anti-Terrrorism Anti-Extremism Committee:
"Humanity lives today in an interdependent and interconnected world
where peaceful and fair interaction, including interfaith and
intra-faith dialogue, is imperative. A grave threat to all of us
nowadays is the scourge of religious and political extremism that
manifests itself in various forms of violence, including terrorism. In
the absence of a universally agreed upon definition of terrorism, it may
be defined as any act of indiscriminate violence that targets innocent
people, whether committed by individuals, groups or states. As Muslims,
we must face up to our responsibility to clarify and advocate a
faith-based, righteous and moral position with regard to this problem,
especially when terrorist acts are perpetrated in the name of Islam. The
purpose of this brochure is to clarify a few key issues relating to this
topic, not because of external pressures or for the sake of “political
correctness”, but out of our sincere conviction of what Islam stands for."
Islamic Society of North America, "Against Terrorism and Religious
Extremism: Muslim Position and Responsibilities," 2005,
http://www.balancedislam.org/ATAECbrochure.pdf.
Shaykh Abdulaziz Al-Asheikh, chief mufti of Saudi Arabia:
The London attacks, "targeting peaceful people, are not condoned by
Islam, and are indeed prohibited by our religion. ... Attributing to
Islam acts of individual or collective killings, bombings, destruction
of properties and the terrorizing of peaceful people is unfair, because
they are alien to the divine religion."
Fatwa-Online, July 9, 2005, http://www.fatwa-online.com/news/0050709.htm
Shaykh Muhammad ibn Abdul-Wahhaab al-'Aqeel, professor of creed
('aqeedah) at the College of Proselytising (da'wah), Islamic University
of Madinah, Saudi Arabia:
"Terrorism is the terror that is caused by those groups or individuals
who resort to killing and wreaking havoc and destruction. Terrorism is
therefore, according to the contemporary compilers of modern Arabic
dictionaries, killing akin to the riotous killing that is mentioned
within the texts of Shar'eeah. As the Prophet (sallallaahu alayhi
wassallam) mentioned with regards to the signs of the end of time, the
spread of 'al-Harj' (riotous killing). The meaning of 'al-Harj' is
killing and the increase of the spilling blood, which is all from the
signs of the end of time. To the extent that the one killing will not
know why he is killing and the one that was killed will not know why
he/she was killed. Islam is free from this riotous killing, free from
this terrorism and free from this kind of corruption. Terrorism is
established upon destruction of properties such as factories, farms,
places of worship, train stations, airports and the likes; Islam is
clearly free from such actions that are based upon corruption and not
upon rectification.
Terrorists usually say that they are going against the state in which
they are based within. This is like the mafia or other criminal
organisations that are based on killing people, causing fear and taking
their monies. Such criminal organisations have leaders, deputies and
individuals that are responsible for establishing regulations for the
organisation and individuals responsible for carrying out attacks, and
all of them are terrorists causing corruption on the earth. However the
ugliest face of terrorism is that which is established in the name of
religion, all of the religions from the Prophets (peace be upon them)
are free from such terrorism, even if some of the followers of the
Prophets participated in such terrorist activities, but the Prophets are
free from such corruptions."
Lecture on "The Evils of Terrorism," August 20, 2005, translated in
Islam Against Terrorism - v1.20, September 17, 2005,
http://www.fatwa-online.com/downloads/dow004/islamagainstterrorism.chm
Shaykh Muhammad Afifi al-Akiti, Malaysian Muslim scholar and research
fellow in Islamic philosophy and theology, Oxford Centre for Islamic
Studies, U.K.:
"If you still insist that your [religious or civil] authority should
declare war with the non-Muslim state upon which you wish war to be
declared, then the most you could do in this capacity is to lobby your
authority for it. However, if your anger is so unrestrained that its
fire brings out the worst in you to the point that your disagreement
with your Muslim authority leads you to declare war on those you want
your authority to declare war on, and you end up resorting to violence,
then know with certainty that you have violated our own religious Laws.
For then you will have taken the Shari'a into your own hands."
Shaykh Muhammad Afifi al-Akiti, Defending the Transgressed by Censuring
the Reckless against the Killing of Civilians, Germany: Warda
Publications, and United Kingdom: Aqsa Press, 2005, p.49,
http://www.warda.info/fatwa.pdf
Abd al-Hakim Murad, British Muslim scholar:
"This is a decadence that is profound. And that it happens in the holy
land is particularly worrying. Near the muqadsāt, where we are
particularly required to conform entirely to the adāb of the Shari’ah.
This is a deep subversion. And as for those who think that for reasons
of masfahah that the door can be opened there, but somehow that door
will remain closed elsewhere in the world, that this door can be opened
because the Palestinians are so oppressed and somehow it’s going to help
them, but of course we keep it closed in Chechnya and Kahsmir and
certainly in London, that logic doesn’t seem to have worked too well.
That rage, that desire to self annihilation, to lash out and the men,
women and children, whoever in the vicinity, is now becoming a global
epidemic. And the ‘ulama who opened the little door now see these
legions rushing through it in every place don’t know what to do about
it. That door has to be closed. Islam is too good for such practices,
for such baseness, for such wild expression of futility and despair and
vindictiveness."
Interview, December 16-18, 2005, London-Leeds-Manchester,
http://www.radicalmiddleway.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=33&Itemid=45
Islamic Society of North America:
"The Islamic Society of North America (ISNA) condemns in the strongest
terms the recent acts of terrorism in Glasgow, London and Yemen. We
reaffirm our long-standing, unqualified condemnation of all acts of
terrorism and all acts of violence committed against the innocent, and
our denunciation of religious extremism and particularly the use of
Islam to justify terrorism in any of its forms*. We sympathize with the
victims of these senseless attacks and offer our heart-felt condolences
to the families who have lost their dear ones."
Islamic Society of North America Statement in Response to Recent
Bombings, July 10, 2007,
http://www.isna.net/index.php?id=35&backPID=1&tt_news=884
Maulana Marghubur Rahman, organizer of "Anti-Terrorism Convention" and
rector of the Dar ul-Ulum Deoband madrasa, India:
"We condemn all forms of terrorism ... and in this we make no
distinction. Terrorism is completely wrong, no matter who engages in it,
and no matter what religion he follows or community he belongs to."
February 2008, translated by Yoginder Sikand,
http://www.twocircles.net/2008mar11/deobands_anti_terrorism_convention_some_reflections.html
See also:
Bernard Haykel, assistant professor of Islamic law at New York University:
"According to Islamic law there are at least six reasons why Bin Laden's
barbaric violence cannot fall under the rubric of jihad: 1) Individuals
and organizations cannot declare a jihad, only states can; 2) One cannot
kill innocent women and children when conducting a jihad; 3) One cannot
kill Muslims in a jihad; 4) One cannot fight a jihad against a country
in which Muslims can freely practise their religion and proselytize
Islam; 5) Prominent Muslim jurists around the world have condemned these
attacks and their condemnation forms a juristic consensus (ijma')
against Bin Laden's actions (This consensus renders his actions
un-Islamic); 6) The welfare and interest of the Muslim community
(maslaha) is being harmed by Bin Laden's actions and this equally makes
them un-Islamic."
The Dawn newspaper, Karachi, Pakistan, October 8, 2001,
http://www.dawn.com/2001/10/08/op.htm#2
--- See other collections of statements:
Sheila Musaji, "Muslims Denounce Terrorism: Muslim Voices Against
Extremism and Terrorism,"
http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php/features/articles/muslim_voices_against_extremism_and_terrorism_2
Omid Safi, "Scholars of Islam & the Tragedy of Sept. 11th,"
http://groups.colgate.edu/aarislam/response.htm
Tim Lubin, Washington and Lee University, "Islamic Responses to the
Sept. 11 Attack," http://home.wlu.edu/~lubint/islamonWTC.htm
The Becket Fund, "Osama Bin Laden Hijacked Four Airplanes and a
Religion," October 17, 2001, http://www.becketfund.org/other/MuslimAd.html
Islam for Today, "Muslims Against Terrorism,”
http://www.islamfortoday.com/terrorism.htm
ReligiousTolerance.org, "Aftermath of the 9-11 Terrorist Attack: Voices
of Moderate Muslims," http://www.religioustolerance.org/reac_ter16.htm
Al-Muhajabah's Islamic Pages, "Muslims Condemn Terrorist Attacks,"
http://www.muhajabah.com/otherscondemn.php
Islamic Stand on Terrorism: An International Conference, Al-Imam
Muhammad Ibn Saud Islamic University, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 20-22 April
2004, http://www.islamstand.org/english/abaakail.htm
Juan Cole, "Friedman Wrong About Muslims Again," July 9, 2005,
http://www.juancole.com/2005/07/friedman-wrong-about-muslims-again-and.html
Fatwa-Online, "Worship \ Jihaad \ WTC - New York, USA - 9/11,"
http://www.fatwa-online.com/worship/jihaad/jih007/index.htm
Fatwa-Online, "Worship \ Jihaad \ Suicide Bombings,"
http://www.fatwa-online.com/worship/jihaad/jih004/index.htm
SOURCE LINK: http://www.unc.edu/~kurzman/terror.htm
Michael
> THEN take a look at these three items - - -
>
> Secret Israeli database reveals full extent of illegal settlements
Oh no, a jew has moved in the neighborhood ...
coaste...@yahoo.com
You owe me a reply an an apology and a reply, Ramon. Will I receive
them?
Ramon F Herrera
Hi Steve from Colorado...
This is the reply. As far as the apology, I can give you a generic one
and you fill the blank, as I haven't been following the thread.
I, Ramon F. Herrera formally apologize to [your nym here] for [feel
free to put whatever here]
-Ramon
"I said suuuuure! Why not! I told the FBI boys what they wanted to
hear: Michael Corleone this, Michael Corleone that]
- Frank Pentangelli being subpoenated by Congress in The Godfather II.
coaste...@yahoo.com
> > them?
>
> Hi Steve from Colorado...
No, this is HHW from Mexico.
> This is the reply. As far as the apology, I can give you a generic one
> and you fill the blank, as I haven't been following the thread.
Maybe not, but you're then even more the loose lipped jerk.
coaste...@yahoo.com
drahcir
Yes, exactly the same. Except for all the atrocities of the Nazis that
killed 90% of European Jewry, yes, they're both exactly the same.
Those darn nazis, they used barbed wire to control the jews, pointed
guns at them, and sometimes yelled at the Jews, just like in your
pictures! That's exactly what the Jews sometimes do to the arabs, as
proven by the pictures!! So except for the Nazi mass shootings, mass
starvations, mass deportations, mass gassings, mass incinerations,
mass subjection to typhus and other deadly diseases, and mass forced
labor, all done unlike the situation with the arabs and the jews,
without any threat whatsoever from the victims, the two situations are
IDENTICAL!!! See, John, that's what Ramon meant when he said he hopes
you don't use that mirror in which israel appears like nazi germany to
shave with, but you're far too stupid to comprehend his joke.
>
> Take a look at these photos:http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/GazaHolo/index.html
>
> Readers can also review the following items which further reveal
> Israel's *ongoing* abuses and incremental theft of Palestinian lands:
>
> Secret Israeli database reveals full extent of illegal settlements -http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1060043.html
>
> = =
>
> This BBC report refers to Israel's documented war crimes in Gaza
>
> UN backs Gaza war crimes reporthttp://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8342915.stm
Michael
He is the stupidest person I have ever encountered.
You see how his brain fails on doing comparisons.
coaste...@yahoo.com
Herein, Mr. Ratner addresses what he believes to be the world's
central problem in 2010.
Someone else said:
> > Readers can see for them selves what the Israelis are doing to the
> > Palestinians - JUST LIKE the Nazis did to the Jews.
And Mr. Ratner replied:
> Yes, exactly the same. Except for all the atrocities of the Nazis that
> killed 90% of European Jewry, yes, they're both exactly the same.
> Those darn nazis, they used barbed wire to control the jews, pointed
> guns at them, and sometimes yelled at the Jews, just like in your
> pictures! That's exactly what the Jews sometimes do to the arabs, as
> proven by the pictures!! So except for the Nazi mass shootings, mass
> starvations, mass deportations, mass gassings, mass incinerations,
> mass subjection to typhus and other deadly diseases, and mass forced
> labor, all done unlike the situation with the arabs and the jews,
> without any threat whatsoever from the victims, the two situations are
> IDENTICAL!!! See, John, that's what Ramon meant when he said he hopes
> you don't use that mirror in which israel appears like nazi germany to
> shave with, but you're far too stupid to comprehend his joke.
Several things are not functioning well with you, Mr. Ratner. I'll
mention here only a few political reflections of the malady.
The "never forget" part is self-defeating for your whole tribe. The
Ukrainians have pretty much gotten past it, but you're not about to
follow any goy example. You wallow in it almost as if you can't live
without it and don't want to live normal lives.
The ideology you cooked up to achieve utopia is bogus, just like all
the rest of them. If you don't begin thinking clearly you'll be lucky
in the long run if you emerge from it with any state, much less a
Jewish State in Greater Israel.
Generally, your uses of the Holocaust in the present for political and
financial purposes dishonor your own dead. Finkelstein is obviously
correct about that.
Your faux Holocaust-Guilt abuse of American sympathy and tolerance is
inexcusable. Not even our former slave population obsess about the
past so much as you do, and overall what was done to them can quite
credibly be said to have been worse than the Holocaust. It lasted four
centuries, not three years.
Your dragging us into endless wars in the Middle East will not easily
be forgotten and woulld be best for both of us if we could end it and
all forget it--especially best for you.
And finally, your refusal to abandon this immense arrogance and
abrasive hubris is stupifyingly stupid. What's in it for you to be
constantly fulfilling old stereotypes and creating new enemies?
You're in no danger here in the American Zion. Anyone else would
understand that. In fact everyone else does understand it. You live in
Jewry's golden age and yet force yourself to imagine that THAT was
sometime two or three thousand years ago in the Middle East of all
places.
drahcir
wrote:
> Herein, Mr. Ratner addresses what he believes to be the world's
> central problem in 2010.
>
> Someone else said:
>
> > > Readers can see for them selves what the Israelis are doing to the
> > > Palestinians - JUST LIKE the Nazis did to the Jews.
>
> And Mr. Ratner replied:
>
> > Yes, exactly the same. Except for all the atrocities of the Nazis that
> > killed 90% of European Jewry, yes, they're both exactly the same.
> > Those darn nazis, they used barbed wire to control the jews, pointed
> > guns at them, and sometimes yelled at the Jews, just like in your
> > pictures! That's exactly what the Jews sometimes do to the arabs, as
> > proven by the pictures!! So except for the Nazi mass shootings, mass
> > starvations, mass deportations, mass gassings, mass incinerations,
> > mass subjection to typhus and other deadly diseases, and mass forced
> > labor, all done unlike the situation with the arabs and the jews,
> > without any threat whatsoever from the victims, the two situations are
> > IDENTICAL!!! See, John, that's what Ramon meant when he said he hopes
> > you don't use that mirror in which israel appears like nazi germany to
> > shave with, but you're far too stupid to comprehend his joke.
Holy moly, a huge, steaming pile of HHWBabble below! Obviously, H, if
you could refute my above post, you'd do so in a few sentences.
Everyone here knows that when you begin a post like you did, then
prattle on endlessly as below, you clearly have nothing to say. Thus,
I realize that although you put in much effort to the below, I must
ask you to forgive me if I ignore it. But then again, to be honest, I
really couldn't give a fuck if you forgive me...
drahcir
Hang around here a while longer and you may wish to retract that
statement.
Michael
They start off acting like they are going to respond to the points,
and wander off
to babble about anything that has nothing to do with anything.
Nice long winded meaningless drivel words ...
> > places.- Hide quoted text -
Michael
I have been on usenet for 10 years.
His brain lacks comprehension skills on even the simplest item.
Others who aren't that smart either realize that he can't comprehend
some simple thing try to be nice and polite to him, when they need
to ream him and roast him on here, there being no reason I can
tell or ascertain as to why they are so soft on his lack of
comprehension ...
>
>
> > You see how his brain fails on doing comparisons.- Hide quoted text -
drahcir
There is no greater master of drivel on this board than HHW aka
iconoclast aka Cazador.
John Manning
And he is STILL is too cowardly to directly address the actual topic of
this thread:
---These photos of the abuse of the Palestinian people by the Israelis
are a clear example of Israel's shameful hypocrisy and unwillingness to
look at THEIR OWN Nazi-like behavior.
Readers can see for them selves what the Israelis are doing to the
Palestinians - JUST LIKE the Nazis did to the Jews.
Take a look at these photos:
http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/GazaHolo/index.html
Readers can also review the following items which reveal Israel's
*ongoing* documented incremental theft of Palestinian lands:
Michael
I have noticed a similar posting style from robotards.
It is almost like they have a cockroach brain.
fla...@verizon.net
On 19-Feb-2010, drahcir <justrich...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 19, 12:52 pm, "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> > Herein, Mr. Ratner addresses what he believes to be the world's
> > central problem in 2010.
> >
That people are lying about Israel & impeding the
world's fight against terrorism? Well, that *is* a
*significant* problem, but only as a part of the
larger one.
> > Someone else said:
> >
> > > > Readers can see for them selves what the Israelis are doing to the
> > > > Palestinians - JUST LIKE the Nazis did to the Jews.
> >
> > And Mr. Ratner replied:
> >
> > > Yes, exactly the same. Except for all the atrocities of the Nazis that
> > > killed 90% of European Jewry, yes, they're both exactly the same.
> > > Those darn nazis, they used barbed wire to control the jews, pointed
> > > guns at them, and sometimes yelled at the Jews, just like in your
> > > pictures! That's exactly what the Jews sometimes do to the arabs, as
> > > proven by the pictures!! So except for the Nazi mass shootings, mass
> > > starvations, mass deportations, mass gassings, mass incinerations,
> > > mass subjection to typhus and other deadly diseases, and mass forced
> > > labor, all done unlike the situation with the arabs and the jews,
> > > without any threat whatsoever from the victims, the two situations are
> > > IDENTICAL!!! See, John, that's what Ramon meant when he said he hopes
> > > you don't use that mirror in which israel appears like nazi germany to
> > > shave with, but you're far too stupid to comprehend his joke.
>
> Holy moly, a huge, steaming pile of HHWBabble below! Obviously, H, if
> you could refute my above post, you'd do so in a few sentences.
Exactly.
> >
> > Your dragging us into endless wars in the Middle East will not easily
> > be forgotten
- note that he starts with this lie, & then --
[flush similar filth]
> >
--- goes here:
> > You're in no danger here in the American Zion.
All those lies are threats.
No matter how decent he bulk of any citizenry is,
there will always be those whose lies & hatred
make Israel necessary.
Susan
fla...@verizon.net
On 19-Feb-2010, drahcir <justrich...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > They start off acting like they are going to respond to the points,
> > and wander off
> > to babble about anything that has nothing to do with anything.
> > Nice long winded meaningless drivel words ...
>
> There is no greater master of drivel on this board than HHW aka
> iconoclast aka Cazador.
I guess that would actually have to include the
Rev "KKK" Pedo, because he makes no pretense
of trying to answer anything.
Susan
drahcir
> iconocl...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > Herein, Mr. Ratner addresses what he believes to be the world's
> > central problem in 2010.
>
> > Someone else said:
>
> >>> Readers can see for them selves what the Israelis are doing to the
> >>> Palestinians - JUST LIKE the Nazis did to the Jews.
>
> > And Mr. Ratner replied:
>
> >> Yes, exactly the same. Except for all the atrocities of the Nazis that
> >> killed 90% of European Jewry, yes, they're both exactly the same.
> >> Those darn nazis, they used barbed wire to control the jews, pointed
> >> guns at them, and sometimes yelled at the Jews, just like in your
> >> pictures! That's exactly what the Jews sometimes do to the arabs, as
> >> proven by the pictures!! So except for the Nazi mass shootings, mass
> >> starvations, mass deportations, mass gassings, mass incinerations,
> >> mass subjection to typhus and other deadly diseases, and mass forced
> >> labor, all done unlike the situation with the arabs and the jews,
> >> without any threat whatsoever from the victims, the two situations are
> >> IDENTICAL!!! See, John, that's what Ramon meant when he said he hopes
> >> you don't use that mirror in which israel appears like nazi germany to
> >> shave with, but you're far too stupid to comprehend his joke.
<snip irrelevant HHWBabble for focus>
>
> And he is STILL is too cowardly to directly address the actual topic of
> this thread:
Listen to this little idiot calling me a coward in the same breath as
he acknowledges his fear of replying to me directly. That, of course,
is besides the point that my post directly addresses the inaptness of
the thread starter that pretends to compare israel with nazi germany.
What could be more direct a reply than what I posted? I think it's
clear that John is a singularly moronic coward, or a cowardly moron,
take your pick. He's a moron for thinking he can convince a soul that
my reply doesn't address the issue, and a coward for trying to snipe
at me indirectly via another poster. What a sad sack of shit you are,
John.
> ---These photos of the abuse of the Palestinian people by the Israelis
> are a clear example of Israel's shameful hypocrisy and unwillingness to
> look at THEIR OWN Nazi-like behavior.
>
> Readers can see for them selves what the Israelis are doing to the
> Palestinians - JUST LIKE the Nazis did to the Jews.
>
> Take a look at these photos:http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/GazaHolo/index.html
>
> Readers can also review the following items which reveal Israel's
> *ongoing* documented incremental theft of Palestinian lands:
>
> Secret Israeli database reveals full extent of illegal settlements -http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1060043.html
>
> = =
>
> This BBC report refers to Israel's documented war crimes in Gaza
>
> UN backs Gaza war crimes reporthttp://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8342915.stm