From perhaps the most intelligently written and managed blog on the perpetual crisis in Palestine
coaste...@yahoo.com
by Philip Weiss on November 14, 2009 · 13 comments
When people ask why Obama has capitulated to the prime minister of a
tiny state– Bibi Netanyahu– various theories are offered about Health
care first, or the economy, or Afghanistan, or oil. Few say directly:
Netanyahu feels invulnerable because of the Israel lobby in the U.S.
As readers of this site know, I am a bull on this issue: I think the
lobby has a tremendous amount of power. And all efforts to poohpooh
its influence strike me as foolish until such time as the media
address it openly and vigorously, as they do, say, the gun lobby. Once
there’s information and sunshine, we can argue about its magnitude.
The difficulty is that you cannot be plain about this matter without
addressing the idea of Jewish influence. Israelis are often more plain
about this. Anshel Pfeffer wrote in Haaretz the other day, "the most
significant joint endeavor of America’s Jews [is] six decades of
unswerving support for the Israeli government of the day." I.e., a
hammerlock on U.S. policy. And last year at the NYPL, former Knesset
speaker Avraham Burg described "two structures" built by Jews, one
being Israel, the other "the semi-autonomous American Jewry, which was
not here 150 years ago– powerful influence, access to the corridors of
power, impact on the culture, and civilization… plus the
infrastructure of the community of solidarity and fraternity and
support system and education etc."
Obama’s crumple cannot be explained without talking about that
influence, and Obama’s/Rahm Emanuel’s fears for a second term. Some of
this power is media/Establishment presence, to which I was long a
personal witness. (And yes I wonder why Nina Totenberg referred to
Emanuel as "Rahm" three times in a report last night on NPR.) Some of
it is financial. As former AIPAC boss Tom Dine told Helena Cobban
lately of a political epiphany he had on the Kennedy campaign in 1980:
"[Jews] were the kings in every city!"
The Jews were kings because of money. As I insist on stating, more
than half of the money in Democratic politics comes from Jews, the
richest group by religion in the U.S. The two baronial families that
lifted Barack Obama in Chicago, the Crowns and the Pritzkers, are both
Jewish (and one, the Crowns, includes fire-and-brimstone Israel
supporters; I am not sure about the Pritzkers).
Money is famously the mother’s milk of politics, and the money that
the lobby directs is playing a huge role in limiting debate of Israel/
Palestine in the U.S. What follows are several items. The first three
are from the recent J Street conference, which prompted this post. The
later items are recycled:
–If you look at Video 5 here from J Street, at Minute 48 or so,
Congressman Bob Filner speaks openly about the financial threat to a
politician in going against the Israel lobby. "Campaign
contributions," he explains, are the reason "why you get 400 votes for
these measures" in support of Israel. "An economic weapon?" moderator
Bob Franken ventures. "Of course," Filner says, with feeling. "On the
issue of Israel, people are taking positions that could lead to war on
the basis of…’Am I going to get a campaign contribution?’… The
dangerous thing here is that people are making decisions– you could
have nuclear war in this whole world, and they’re making it on narrow
political, parochial grounds." [emphasis Weiss's]
What are those contributions worth? Filner says (at minute 25 or so)
said that 10 years ago he voted against a resolution to condemn Khalid
Muhammad, an associate of Louis Farrakhan who was making anti-Semitic
speeches. Filner didn’t like what Muhammad was saying, but he felt
that it wasn’t Congress’s place to condemn speech. "What about the
First Amendment?" But only 10 people voted against it, Filner says.
"You know you’re going to pay for that," he was told by fellow
congressmen. "Then I started getting all these calls. I’m not sure
which organization was behind it.I will tell you… on that vote I lost
about $250,000 an election cycle in contributions. That’s intimidating
to most of my colleagues. That kind of money… is an intimidating
factor. Not many people would stand up to it."
–Also at J Street, Elissa Barrett, the executive director of the
Progressive Jewish Alliance, in rationalizing her organization’s
pitiful silence on Israel’s human rights record, said "we can’t be
blase about our funders and how they stand with us." She said that
"PJA has lost funders around this." Sad. Presumably she was referring
to this type of lame statement in the midst of the Gaza war. This
demonstrates that even in the leftleaning Jewish community, people are
scared of the neoconservative shadow.
–Jonathan Chait of the New Republic warned J Street that because it
was providing a forum for (mild) criticisms of Israel, a leading
Democratic consultant had told him recently that he would have to
advise political candidates to return contributions from the group.
–Back when Harvard professor Steve Walt co-authored his bombshell
paper on the Israel lobby, Bernard Steinberg, director of Harvard’s
Hillel center, brought up the money issue unprompted when I was
interviewing him for the Nation: "I talked to someone in Harvard
development and asked what the fallout had been, and he said, ‘It’s
been seismic.’" Subsequently the New York Sun tried to maumau the
Jewish benefactor of Walt’s chair at the school, Robert Belfer, and
described "snowballing outrage from Harvard donors.
–When Lawrence Summers was forced out as Harvard’s president, Martin
Peretz said it was out of "anti-Israel and even anti-Jewish animus"
and threatened financial repercussions: "…[M]y own impression of
wealthy alumni who were once my students is that Summers made them
more generous… I know of at least three gifts in the $100 million
range that were very likely to materialize and now are dicey."
Related Posts
1.Saban’s financial leverage is in a long tradition of ‘practical
politics’ in the Israel lobby2.The lobby resorts to financial
blackmail again3.Jewish IQ drop continues, thanks to Israel lobby4.Now
you know (Israel lobby and ABM decision)5.Tom Friedman says ‘everyone
knows’ Israel lobby blocked US policy re settlements.{ 13 comments…
read them below or add one }
1 Mooser November 14, 2009 at 11:00 am
I am at least beginning to understand, unfortunately, why you insist
on conflating “Jews” and “Zionists”. And it’s pretty obvious: the rest
of us get dragged along with those people by default. I find the
conflation, strictly speaking, insulting, but it has a point. As I
have said many times, anybody with the money and other resources can
seize the Jewish narrative, and there is no established authourity to
tell them “No”. To make it clear, as an example, that the Zionists are
on their own, acting on their own and not as representatives for the
Jewish community. But there is no one who can do that.
So nothing will change until enough American Jews feel either ashamed
enough or endangered enough to sit up and start screaming “No!” And we
can just about assume that any “J”ewish organisation formed for the
purpose of acting on the I-P issues is co-opted.
But you wanna know something? It’s only a small minority, of any
religion, who have such strong religious feelings (I do not, not,
believe that Zionism is in any way a “religious feeling”) about saving
their religion. For the biggest mass of Jews, when your religion makes
you ashamed or endangers you, it’s a hell of a lot easier just to walk
out. And that is what has happened, although nobody wants to admit it.
Someday %100 per cent of American Jews will be rabid Zionists! But a
%100 of nothing is still, as Mr. Preston lyrically reminds us,
nothin’.
Log in to Reply
. 2 potsherd November 14, 2009 at 11:09 am
Because, Mooser, it’s not about religion. That isn’t the glue. It’s
tribalism. If you insist on reducing the phenomenon to religion, you
will fatally misunderstand it.
Log in to Reply
. 3 tree November 14, 2009 at 11:31 am
Good way of putting it, potsherd. It has more to do with tribalism,
especially since Jewishness is defined by Israel, and by many self-
named Jews, not along strictly religious lines but along ethnic or
affinity lines.
If you want to talk about white supremacy, you have to talk about
whites and white attitudes. If you want to talk about Jewish
exceptionalism, you have to talk about Jews and Jewish attitudes.
Neither discussion means that ALL whites or ALL Jews are the same or
have these corresponding attitudes, but refusing to talk about the
source and nature of the attitudes because they are not held by all is
to stunt and quash any discussion that could help eliminate the
attitudes.
. 4 Sin Nombre November 14, 2009 at 1:35 pm
Mooser wrote:
“I do not, not, believe that Zionism is in any way a “religious
feeling”….
Okay, but given it sure appears that a very large percentage of jews
equate the health of Zionism with the health of judaism, what
difference does it make?
Log in to Reply
. 5 potsherd November 14, 2009 at 11:10 am
Short version: the Israel Lobby has bought the US government.
Log in to Reply
. 6 javs November 14, 2009 at 11:30 am
I do not believe that the ZUSA has bought anything besides a 1200.
dollar hammer
The people..GULIBLE USA brainwashed at every commercial and in every
aspect by the infamous holocaust and the boo hoo,”we stand with
israel” signs (which is an oximoron and should be taken down ) due to
the fact not a single resolution or request has ever been followed by
israel. The economic crisis by the mortgage and real estate banks
credit cards and loan granted to israel has basically raped the zusa
of any real future attempts at stability. The truth about nine eleven
will never find enough people to listen and the ones that do are shut
out or up. The patsies should come forward and show the world yes they
are alive..for the moment at least that would be. People here that
have been dumbed down include the state and federal agencies and
supreme ass kisser court. truth is look around at who they are that is
controlling all these and stop bloggin about and do something solid
and concrete , since you need to write about how terrible it all is ,
put those words into actions real actions and stop pecking the keys.
Whe you look into the mirror in the morning do not try and fool
yourselves that you are righteous and blogging is your way of doing
your part. Go to the three branches of government and un and criminal
courts and demand the state hood be dismantled and the nukes
dismantled along with the arrest of the former and current she and he
devils that have been behind all the death and destruction of the very
fabric of life, let alone the others.
Log in to Reply
. 7 DICKERSON3870 November 14, 2009 at 1:48 pm
RE: “…and the Jewish kings”
SEE – A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the “REALM”
(excerpt) A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm,
commonly referred to as the “Clean Break” report, was prepared in 1996
by a study group led by Richard Perle for Benjamin Netanyahu, the then-
Prime Minister of Israel.[1] The report explained a new approach to
solving Israel’s security problems in the Middle East with an emphasis
on “Western values”. It has since been criticized for advocating an
aggressive new policy.
WIKIPEDIA – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Clean_Break:_A_New_Strategy_for_Securing_the_Realm
FROM merriam-webster.com/dictionary –
Main Entry: realm
Pronunciation: \ˈrelm\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English realme, from Anglo-French, alteration of Old
French reiame, from Latin regimen control — more at regimen
Date: 13th century
1 : kingdom 2
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. 8 Richard Witty November 14, 2009 at 1:51 pm
I disagree in the use of the term “THE” lobby, when even Walt/
Mearsheimer describe a great deal of difference in perspectives of
spokesmen and leaders of “THE” lobby’s goals and direction.
There is only one common trait that all of “THE” lobby articulates,
and that is concern for an advocacy for the continuation of Israel as
a secure Jewish state.
The variances occur with J Street stating that the way that Israel can
be most secure is by good relations with its neighbors and
international community, and what would otherwise compromise security
concerns should be considered and constructed by treaty with third
party glue.
J Street and most of AIPAC conclude that Israel should be Jewish AND
democratic, with J Street emphasizing the democratic more than AIPAC.
Other groups in “THE” lobby vary. Some are revisionist in the
Jabotinsky vein. Some function further to the left on some issues.
“THE” lobby is effective at non-binding votes. MOST lobbies slam-dunk
those. The Goldstone vote was further afield, but I truly believe that
most representatives didn’t understand the professionally defined
limited scope of the report, and to quash something that is already
professionally qualified, is an absurdity.
Even if the lobby is as powerful as Phil infers, then there is still
the question of “so what”. ONLY, if that lobby sincerely distorts UN
policy is that relevant. And, that is where the very wide variation of
opinion within “THE” lobby comes into play. ONLY, if “THE” lobby were
monolithic, could it be even rationally speculated “Israel caused the
Iraq War” (and then on further investigation, particularly weighing
evidence and representatives’ attitudes, that thesis would rationally
be rejected as THE cause).
“THE” Israel lobby is not monolithic. Leaders within “THE” lobby
agitated fiercely against the US going to war in Iraq, and leaders
within “THE” lobby agitated fiercely for the US going to war in Iraq.
It doesn’t make sense except to a prejudicial, or conspiratorial,
bent.
Log in to Reply
. 9 potsherd November 14, 2009 at 2:43 pm
On the inside, an orange has segments. On the outside, it has a thick
unitary rind.
Log in to Reply
. 10 Eva Smagacz November 14, 2009 at 3:16 pm
Structure of “the semi-autonomous American Jewry, which was not here
150 years ago– powerful influence, access to the corridors of power,
impact on the culture, and civilization… plus the infrastructure of
the community of solidarity and fraternity and support system and
education etc.”
Semi autonomy of Jews is nothing new:
“In Poland, … there was little question: Jews were Jews. With some
exception, Jews neither considered themselves nor were they regarded
by others as Polish or Polish Jews. As is well known, Jews in Poland
were allowed to have their own laws and institutions. They were a
nation unto themselves and they maintained their nationhood in Poland.
From the time of their arrival and through the centuries, they sought
to protect their way of life. They were not merely a separate religion
but a tightly-knit community, leading life largely separate from
Poles. They had their own
customs, culture, dress, schools, courts, community government, and
language (in the 1930 census almost 80 percent declared Yiddish as
their mother tongue). Menachem Begin’s father refused to learn Polish.
In a word, the vast majority of Jews were unintegrated socially and
culturally in the fabric of the larger society. They shared little or
no national sentiment or common allegiance with the Poles. They and
the Poles were almost strangers. They avoided association with the
vast majority of the population, the Polish peasantry, not wanting to
live like, or with, them.”
Ralph Slovenko, “On Polish-Jewish Relations,” The Journal of
Psychiatry & Law, vol. 15 (Winter 1987): 597–687,
“Zionists, who dominated the joint committee of East European Jewish
delegations at the [Paris] Peace Conference and enjoyed the support of
the American Jewish Congress, demanded that Poland … recognize their
Jewish residents as members of a distinct nation, with the right to
collective representation at both state and international levels. This
would entail the creation of a separate Jewish parliament in Poland,
alongside a state parliament representing all the country’s
inhabitants, and it would mean the creation of a Jewish seat at the
League of Nations. In demanding formal, corporate, political/
diplomatic status for a territorially dispersed nation, as
distinct from a state, the Zionists were challenging traditional
notions about the indivisibility of state sovereignty …”
Aviel Roshwald, Ethnic Nationalism and the Fall of Empires: Central
Europe, Russia and the Middle East, 1914–1923 (London and New York:
Routledge, 2001),
Log in to Reply
. 11 GalenSword November 14, 2009 at 3:42 pm
Not just the USA: [YNET] Once Again Germans Supporting Nazism!.
Log in to Reply
. 12 radii November 14, 2009 at 8:51 pm
“Jewishness is defined by Israel”
That is what the zionists want the world to believe, but Jews have
been around nearly 6000 years as an identifiable culture/people while
zionism has been around about 1/58th that time. Zionism is a political
philosophy based on taking land and claiming it was given by “god” and
is geopolitical in nature but casually uses the veneer of religion
when convenient.
. 13 potsherd November 14, 2009 at 9:49 pm
The Zionists pretend they are the 2nd coming of Moses, hijacking
Judaism and making a new set of laws. But what they worship is a new
golden calf.
Tell it like it is.
wrote:
What they don't understand is that they have deceived themselves into
believing that they are not promoting racism and racial exclusiveness
above the requirements of nationhood as long as their own little
country is intact.
http://www.henrymakow.com
drahcir
indeed expelled."
On Nov 13, 4:42 pm, "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> From the River to the Sea. By Gilad Atzmon
> 2009 November 11
> by kanan48
> .Via: Gilad Atzmon.
Everyone here knows that HHW, whose latest pretentious alias is
"iconoclast", is a willful ignoramus with regard to Israel, choosing
to rely on a handful of completely unobjective sources, including
Finklestein and Atzmon. Here is PROOF that Atzmon is a liar, and by
implication, HHW is therefore a naive, silly old fool.
<snip for focus>
> Haaretz reported today that the Israeli PM admitted in Washington that
> he was committed to ‘two states living side by side’. However, he
> stressed that the “the right of Palestinian refugees to return to the
> homes from which they were expelled, would not be on the table.”
It is crystal clear that Atzmon wants the reader to think that the
above quote is the words of Netanyahu, and HHW bought it hook, line,
and sinker. Problem is that it isn't. Here is a quote from the
original Haaretz article:
"In his address, Netanyahu also appeared to resist U.S. pressure to
promote the two-state solution. He said he was committed to two states
living side by side, but stressed that the central issues - the right
of Palestinian refugees to return to the homes from which they were
expelled and certain territorial claims - would not be on the table."
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1127420.html
As anyone can see, nowhere does the article state or imply that
Netanyahu made the statement quoted in the Atzmon article. From the
Haaretz article, we have no idea about the words Netanyahu used and,
since there is no quote provided, whether he even stated the ideas
that Haaretz says he stated. The concept of expulsion is clearly that
of Ms. Mozgovaya, the author of the article, not of Netanyahu. Even
the idea of "central issues" is not Netanyahu's, but rather
Mozgovaya's.
So, H, please, please give the group your poignant observations about
precisely how you became a naive, silly old fool!
<snip remainder of discredited nonsense>
Honest truth
its side.
> When people ask why Obama has capitulated to the prime minister of a
> tiny state嚙碾 Bibi Netanyahu嚙碾 various theories are offered about Health
> care first, or the economy, or Afghanistan, or oil.
--
嚙踝蕭Of all the extreme fanaticism which plays havoc in man嚙踝蕭s nature, there is
not one as irrational as anti-Semitism. 嚙皺 If the Jews are rich [these
fanatics] are victims of theft. If they are poor, they are victims of
ridicule. If they take sides in a war, it is because they wish to take
advantage from the spilling of non-Jewish blood. If they espouse peace, it
is because they are scared by their natures or traitors. If the Jew dwells
in a foreign land he is persecuted and expelled. If he wishes to return to
his own land, he is prevented from doing so.嚙踝蕭
Lloyd George
Fish Supper
"drahcir" <justrich...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:f73d6c78-1dac-4590...@k17g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
From the thread "Netanyahu admitted today that Palestinians were
indeed expelled."
On Nov 13, 4:42 pm, "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
So, H, please, please give the group your poignant observations about
precisely how you became a naive, silly old fool!
<snip remainder of discredited nonsense>
****
far from being foolish, it seems to me and probably every other right minded
thinker who, unlike you, is not blinded by hysterical, extremist racism that
iconoclast is hammering you relentlessly, day after day with documented,
verifiable facts, - bang, bang, bang , fact, fact, fact - to which your
only, inevitable response is to start using profanities, personal invective,
threats and thrusting your fingers even further into your ears and jump up
and down pouting, "no, no, no, shan't listen, shan't"
That's not a very mature way of conducting debate.
For example, I provided you evidence form a multitude of independent,
respected sources by witnesses from a variety of non-aligned nations as to
the proof of Israel's illegal use of white phosphorous and the resulting war
criminality. Your response? A petulant cry of "no they didn't". No rebuttal,
no counter evidence, no refutal of the proof provided by AI, the Red Cross,
The UN et al - simply a petualant whine, that "no they didn't".
Ditto the widespread massacres of Palestinian civilians perpetrated by
Jewish terrorist gangs in 1947 & 1948. Proof that was provided from a
multitude of verifiable, respected sources is dismissed out of hand with the
hysterical claim that is was all exaggerated and fabricated.
You really are out of your depth in grown up conversation, laddie.
drahcir
> "drahcir" <justrichardsmu...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:f73d6c78-1dac-4590...@k17g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
> From the thread "Netanyahu admitted today that Palestinians were
> indeed expelled."
>
> On Nov 13, 4:42 pm, "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> So, H, please, please give the group your poignant observations about
> precisely how you became a naive, silly old fool!
>
> <snip remainder of discredited nonsense>
>
> ****
>
> far from being foolish, it seems to me and probably every other right minded
> thinker who, unlike you, is not blinded by hysterical, extremist racism that
> iconoclast is hammering you relentlessly, day after day with documented,
> verifiable facts, - bang, bang, bang ,
LOL! Silly child, Atzmon lied, I proved it, and in so doing I proved
HHW, known to silly children like you as "iconoclast", is a naive,
silly old fool. You think that if you snip that proof away in your
empty reply, that all the bad hurty is magically gone. That's not the
way it works. Here's what you snipped. Refute it if you can, if not,
please do everyone a favor and cut the empty chatter that only
reinforces the fact that you are a flaccid, weak ignoramus who has
never read a book, and who has a "thing" for Jews because he wants
someone to blame besides himself for his lot in life.
Let me repeat: REFUTE MY PROOF OR KEEP YOUR SILLY YAP SHUT.
From the thread "Netanyahu admitted today that Palestinians were
indeed expelled."
On Nov 13, 4:42 pm, "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> From the River to the Sea. By Gilad Atzmon
<snip for focus>
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1127420.html
So, H, please, please give the group your poignant observations about
precisely how you became a naive, silly old fool!
<snip remainder of discredited nonsense>
Fish Supper
On Nov 15, 10:06 am, "Fish Supper" <l...@sea.com> wrote:
> "drahcir" <justrichardsmu...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:f73d6c78-1dac-4590...@k17g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
> From the thread "Netanyahu admitted today that Palestinians were
> indeed expelled."
I notice you avoided dealing with the following points:
> For example, I provided you evidence form a multitude of independent,
> respected sources by witnesses from a variety of non-aligned nations as to
> the proof of Israel's illegal use of white phosphorous and the resulting
> war
> criminality. Your response? A petulant cry of "no they didn't". No
> rebuttal,
> no counter evidence, no refutal of the proof provided by AI, the Red
> Cross,
> The UN et al - simply a petualant whine, that "no they didn't".
>
> Ditto the widespread massacres of Palestinian civilians perpetrated by
> Jewish terrorist gangs in 1947 & 1948. Proof that was provided from a
> multitude of verifiable, respected sources is dismissed out of hand with
> the
> hysterical claim that is was all exaggerated and fabricated.
>
> You really are out of your depth in grown up conversation, laddie.
Want to try again?
drahcir
> "drahcir" <justrichardsmu...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:96362218-804a-4940...@h34g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
> On Nov 15, 10:06 am, "Fish Supper" <l...@sea.com> wrote:
>
> > "drahcir" <justrichardsmu...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:f73d6c78-1dac-4590...@k17g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
> > From the thread "Netanyahu admitted today that Palestinians were
> > indeed expelled."
>
> I notice you avoided dealing with the following points:
Moron, you snipped the point of this subthread, because you have no
counter for it. Here, I'll unsnip it for you. See, I like to be kind
to the handicapped:
Let me repeat: REFUTE MY PROOF OR KEEP YOUR SILLY YAP SHUT.
From the thread "Netanyahu admitted today that Palestinians were
indeed expelled."
On Nov 13, 4:42 pm, "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
<snip for focus>
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1127420.html
>
>
>
Fish Supper
<snip for focus>
> he was committed to �two states living side by side�. However, he
> stressed that the �the right of Palestinian refugees to return to the
> homes from which they were expelled, would not be on the table.�
It is crystal clear that Atzmon wants the reader to think that the
above quote is the words of Netanyahu, and HHW bought it hook, line,
and sinker. Problem is that it isn't. Here is a quote from the
original Haaretz article:
"In his address, Netanyahu also appeared to resist U.S. pressure to
promote the two-state solution. He said he was committed to two states
living side by side, but stressed that the central issues - the right
of Palestinian refugees to return to the homes from which they were
expelled and certain territorial claims - would not be on the table."
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1127420.html
As anyone can see, nowhere does the article state or imply that
Netanyahu made the statement quoted in the Atzmon article. From the
Haaretz article, we have no idea about the words Netanyahu used and,
since there is no quote provided, whether he even stated the ideas
that Haaretz says he stated. The concept of expulsion is clearly that
of Ms. Mozgovaya, the author of the article, not of Netanyahu. Even
the idea of "central issues" is not Netanyahu's, but rather
Mozgovaya's.
So, H, please, please give the group your poignant observations about
precisely how you became a naive, silly old fool!
<snip remainder of discredited nonsense>
***
Still avoiding the poins about Israeli use of WP, I see.
No problem.
It's not as if I ever thought you were able to address them anyway. Let's
just put it down to you being unable, yet again, to argue against facts that
are independently sourced, prefering to dodge and dive and weasle your way
out of dealing with them.
Fish Supper
"Honest truth" <Honest...@Wisdom.net> wrote in message
news:pj4ve9tz8lmp$.wf3mrngj8i5b$.dlg@40tude.net...
> What the various alternatives like at least Israel has truth and justice
> on
> its side.
>
LOL - An illegitimate state founded on lies and criminality, whose major
exports today are corruption, terrorism and death.
drahcir
> > stressed that the “the right of Palestinian refugees to return to the
> > homes from which they were expelled, would not be on the table.”
>
> It is crystal clear that Atzmon wants the reader to think that the
> above quote is the words of Netanyahu, and HHW bought it hook, line,
> and sinker. Problem is that it isn't. Here is a quote from the
> original Haaretz article:
>
> "In his address, Netanyahu also appeared to resist U.S. pressure to
> promote the two-state solution. He said he was committed to two states
> living side by side, but stressed that the central issues - the right
> of Palestinian refugees to return to the homes from which they were
> expelled and certain territorial claims - would not be on the table."
>
> http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1127420.html
>
> As anyone can see, nowhere does the article state or imply that
> Netanyahu made the statement quoted in the Atzmon article. From the
> Haaretz article, we have no idea about the words Netanyahu used and,
> since there is no quote provided, whether he even stated the ideas
> that Haaretz says he stated. The concept of expulsion is clearly that
> of Ms. Mozgovaya, the author of the article, not of Netanyahu. Even
> the idea of "central issues" is not Netanyahu's, but rather
> Mozgovaya's.
>
> So, H, please, please give the group your poignant observations about
> precisely how you became a naive, silly old fool!
>
> <snip remainder of discredited nonsense>
>
> ***
> Still avoiding the poins about Israeli use of WP, I see.
>
> No problem.
<yawn> If you had a brain, I'd ask you to get a grip. My post had to
do with iconoclast's refusal to acknowledge my proof of Atzmon;s lie.
You are replying to me, therefore you are required to address that
point. You don't because you can't. If you need help, perhaps refer to
the subject of the post you just made.
drahcir
> "Honest truth" <Honest_tr...@Wisdom.net> wrote in message
Fish, don't you realize how idiotic you appear, repeating your uncited
bullshit over and over? Yes, we know, you hate Israel. Do you have
anything else to say?
Fish Supper
On Nov 16, 5:26 am, "Fish Supper" <l...@sea.com> wrote:
> "drahcir" <justrichardsmu...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
Once again, you refuse to deal with the points on White Phosphorous.
Why is that? Are you ashamed?
Wait, what am I saying? Shame? you?
coaste...@yahoo.com
I wouldn't give a damn what was going on with these people were it not
that they were intimidating our Congress and dragging us into endless
conflict in the Middle East.
coaste...@yahoo.com
Presuming for the sake of the question that he does "hate Israel", are
you inviting him to explain why? You make mistakes like this all the
time, Ratner. You're the least effective debater here. Israel has a
terrible record.
coaste...@yahoo.com
> "drahcir" <justrichardsmu...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1bc9af27-6c42-4ddf...@p35g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
> On Nov 16, 5:26 am, "Fish Supper" <l...@sea.com> wrote:
>
> > "drahcir" <justrichardsmu...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> Once again, you refuse to deal with the points on White Phosphorous.
>
> Why is that? Are you ashamed?
>
> Wait, what am I saying? Shame? you?
Haha. Inconceivable, eh? Isn't that one of the definitions of chutzpah?
Fish Supper
"icono...@yahoo.com" <coaste...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:55b38e0f-624c-4018...@r24g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
***
He *is* a usenet gem, isn't he?
The Inspector Clouseau of the newsgroups, keeps getting his arse handed to
him on a plate and never quite works out why.
The guy is such a dummy you could stick your hand up his arse and pass as a
ventriloquist act.
drahcir
wrote:
> On Nov 16, 8:34 am, drahcir <justrichardsmu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Nov 16, 6:12 am, "Fish Supper" <l...@sea.com> wrote:
>
> > > "Honest truth" <Honest_tr...@Wisdom.net> wrote in message
>
> > >news:pj4ve9tz8lmp$.wf3mrngj8i5b$.dlg@40tude.net...
>
> > > > What the various alternatives like at least Israel has truth and justice
> > > > on
> > > > its side.
>
> > > LOL - An illegitimate state founded on lies and criminality, whose major
> > > exports today are corruption, terrorism and death.
>
> > Fish, don't you realize how idiotic you appear, repeating your uncited
> > bullshit over and over? Yes, we know, you hate Israel. Do you have
> > anything else to say?
>
> Presuming for the sake of the question that he does "hate Israel", are
> you inviting him to explain why?
I do believe my question to him is clear, H. Let's see if he will
answer it.
You make mistakes like this all the
> time, Ratner.
LOL! You want to try to divert attention from your unwillingness to
attempt to refute my proof that Atzmon lied and that you are a naive,
silly old fool for buying it. Sorry, H, it won't work. Until you drum
up the courage to face up to your blunder, you will continue to be my
bitch. I present you the problem yet again:
<snip for focus>
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1127420.html
********
All you have to do is refute or agree with my proof that Atzmon is a
liar. It's so simple, H. You won't succeed in trying to divert
attention away from this issue - the more you try, the more it will be
repeated. You can end it all now with a simple refutation or agreement
- there is no third option. The choice is yours.
Fish Supper
On Nov 17, 9:46 pm, "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> On Nov 16, 8:34 am, drahcir <justrichardsmu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Nov 16, 6:12 am, "Fish Supper" <l...@sea.com> wrote:
>
> > > "Honest truth" <Honest_tr...@Wisdom.net> wrote in message
>
> > >news:pj4ve9tz8lmp$.wf3mrngj8i5b$.dlg@40tude.net...
>
> > > > What the various alternatives like at least Israel has truth and
> > > > justice
> > > > on
> > > > its side.
>
> > > LOL - An illegitimate state founded on lies and criminality, whose
> > > major
> > > exports today are corruption, terrorism and death.
>
> > Fish, don't you realize how idiotic you appear, repeating your uncited
> > bullshit over and over? Yes, we know, you hate Israel. Do you have
> > anything else to say?
>
> Presuming for the sake of the question that he does "hate Israel", are
> you inviting him to explain why?
I do believe my question to him is clear, H. Let's see if he will
answer it.
***
here's one answer why I hate Israel.
"A group of Israeli soldiers who fought in the recent war in Gaza have
testified that the military allowed them to use reckless force.
The 26 soldiers published their anonymous accounts in a booklet compiled by
Breaking the Silence, an Israeli soldiers' organisation.
They describe the Israeli army's use of human shields and deliberate
targeting of civilian structures. "
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article6715417.ece
http://www.btselem.org/English/Testimonies/Index.asp
Any answer to the use of civilian human shields and WP by teh Israelis yet?
No? ah, well, maybe tomorrow you'll have thought of something. You've had a
few days now, so I'll expect a defense soon, shall I?
drahcir
> "drahcir" <justrichardsmu...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:b8d84439-cc03-4f35...@f16g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
> On Nov 17, 9:46 pm, "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Nov 16, 8:34 am, drahcir <justrichardsmu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Nov 16, 6:12 am, "Fish Supper" <l...@sea.com> wrote:
>
> > > > "Honest truth" <Honest_tr...@Wisdom.net> wrote in message
>
> > > >news:pj4ve9tz8lmp$.wf3mrngj8i5b$.dlg@40tude.net...
>
> > > > > What the various alternatives like at least Israel has truth and
> > > > > justice
> > > > > on
> > > > > its side.
>
> > > > LOL - An illegitimate state founded on lies and criminality, whose
> > > > major
> > > > exports today are corruption, terrorism and death.
>
> > > Fish, don't you realize how idiotic you appear, repeating your uncited
> > > bullshit over and over? Yes, we know, you hate Israel. Do you have
> > > anything else to say?
>
> > Presuming for the sake of the question that he does "hate Israel", are
> > you inviting him to explain why?
>
> I do believe my question to him is clear, H. Let's see if he will
> answer it.
I wish you geezers could at least keep whom you are replying to
straight. Sheesh.
>
> ***
>
> here's one answer why I hate Israel.
>
> http://www.shovrimshtika.org/
>
> "A group of Israeli soldiers who fought in the recent war in Gaza have
> testified that the military allowed them to use reckless force.
> The 26 soldiers published their anonymous accounts in a booklet compiled by
> Breaking the Silence, an Israeli soldiers' organisation.
> They describe the Israeli army's use of human shields and deliberate
> targeting of civilian structures. "http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article671541...
>
> http://www.btselem.org/English/Testimonies/Index.asp
>
> Any answer to the use of civilian human shields and WP by teh Israelis yet?
>
> No? ah, well, maybe tomorrow you'll have thought of something. You've had a
> few days now, so I'll expect a defense soon, shall I?
The answer is you're an ass. The ones using human shields were arabs -
they fought and fired rockets from apartment houses, dressed as
civilians, used ambulances for military purposes, etc. etc. That is
all documented in many videos. Of course you don't give a shit about
that. Regarding the killing of innocents, you don't give a shit about
that, either. If you did, you'd be ranting in your quaint, silly,
childish way about the nearly daily massacring of women and kids in
markets by muslim fanatics. But the real deal is you couldn't care
less about arab civilians - all you care about is attacking israel,
because you don't like jews. It's the same story over and over - some
idiot is a miserable failure in life and decides those who succeed are
to blame.
coaste...@yahoo.com
> "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> - Show quoted text -
Whose hand? No thanks.
Fish Supper
***
http://www.palestinechronicle.com/view_article_details.php?id=15058
oops, got that wrong didn't you, Dicky?
***
all you care about is attacking israel,
because you don't like jews.
***
Bingo! There it is, right on time. Zionist double speak; if you hate the
fascist behaviour of Israel, you must be an anti-semtic Nazi.
***
It's the same story over and over - some
idiot is a miserable failure in life and decides those who succeed are
to blame.
***
yeah, that must be it. Nothing to do with this :
http://www.palestinechronicle.com/view_article_details.php?id=15058
drahcir
>
> oops, got that wrong didn't you, Dicky?
> ***
>
> all you care about is attacking israel,
> because you don't like jews.
>
> ***
> Bingo! There it is, right on time. Zionist double speak; if you hate the
> fascist behaviour of Israel, you must be an anti-semtic Nazi.
> ***
>
> It's the same story over and over - some
> idiot is a miserable failure in life and decides those who succeed are
> to blame.
>
> ***
> yeah, that must be it. Nothing to do with this :http://www.palestinechronicle.com/view_article_details.php?id=15058
I repeat - the blindfolded person is KNEELING next to the soldier,
probably his prisoner. The blindfolded person is not SHIELDING
anything or anyone. PERIOD. You are simply too friggin stupid to
comprehend.
Fish Supper
***
Now, Dick, we can all see that the blindfolded, handcuffed CHILD is
positioned IN FRONT OF the Israeli criminal.
How can he be kneeling, Dick, when his knees are clearly visible and not on
the ground?
Is anatomy another one of your weak points, Dick?
Only a subhuman, lying zionist cunt could claim that this child was being
used in any way other than as a human shield.
But, I guess that's just you, Dick.
Any closer to answering the points about indiscriminate Israeli use of White
Phosphorous by the way? No, still nothing? After all this time, you can't
come up with anything?
OK, how about letting us know which IQ you mean when you say that Jews have
a higher IQ? Cognitive? verbal? spatial? emotional? Do you want to take a
50-50? Or phone a friend?
Wait! Phone a friend? What am I saying? I would imagine everyone at school
keeps clear of you, Dick. Am I right, Dick? Do you have *any* friends, Dick?
Really, I think we should know if there are more of you.
drahcir
BWAHAHAHA! Better get an eye exam, ben.
Fish Supper
***
that's the best you can do, Dick? That's your best shot? You're really not
cut out for this 'thinking' business are you?
" Other soldiers took 'Amid's cousin, Samah 'Amirah, 24, and used him as a
human shield in a similar fashion. Part of this incident was recorded on by
AP television cameras and broadcast both on Israeli television and abroad."
drahcir
LOL! I don't need anywhere near my best shot for you, ben. You say the
prisoner is "in front", but he clearly is not. Therefore either your
vision must be impaired or you are so fucking stupid that you think
you can say beside is in front and that you will accomplish anything
except to convince readers that your an idiot. Anyone would tell you
the same. You'll never experience my best shot, ben - why should I
waste energy? I save that for those who deserve it. You are just a
joke - dealing with you is child's play.
coaste...@yahoo.com
Yes it is:
Freedom of Speech, Free Speech and Their Enemies
The Silencing of Gilad Atzmon
By OREN BEN-DOR
I have recently signed a petition that condemns the constant attempts
to silence Gilad Atzmon. The same petition also objects to the
constant attempts to discredit and hinder the website that hosts,
among others, Gilad's views--Peacepalestine--one of the more
enlightening internet platforms on Palestine.
It would be an understatement to say that debating Gilad's voice is
supremely important. No thinking person could fail to be stimulated by
the deep connections Gilad makes.
Dwelling together in the unsaid is what makes intellectuals' innermost
togetherness but it does not mean that all those who respond to the
unsaid can be assimilated into one another so as to form some kind of
a "group".
All those who try to smother Gilad's endeavours, to distort his voice
through vulgar associations and conventional clichés, and to utilise
uncritically accepted conventional havens for thoughtlessness, do not
really do justice to the intellectual game as far as Palestine is
concerned. I believe this message to be the essence of this petition.
In Chronicle of a Death Foretold, Gabriel García Márquez narrates the
story of a village in which everybody understands that a murder is
about to be committed in the near future. Yet, nobody is doing
anything about this forthcoming event that is chronicled to happen.
Some deep causes combine to make everybody complicit in diverting,
repressing, hindering, "forgetting", being "delayed", in short
avoiding any possibility of stopping the chronicle from happening.
This concealment thus becomes a part of that fate that eventually
leads to the death of Santiago Nasar.
García Márquez may have given us a metaphor of how fate can unfold as
possibilities that are always already grounded in denial of deep self-
concealing past events. He also shows how the unfolding of this fate
lurks amidst intensive highly-involved chatter.
Zionism may not merely be a cause of colonial injustice in Palestine
in the sense of being a misguided response to anti-Jewish racism
understood as "anti-semitism". Zionism can be conceived as a symptom
the non-empathetic manifestations of which are historically and
existentially continuing certain facets of Jewish being and thinking.
It is very important to ask whether the originary aggression of victim
mentality as well as the choseness-begotten separateness existentially
links the Zionist and the Jewish question. This link may well pervade
the mentality of Israelis whether orthodox or not.
The anti-Zionist struggle must not encage itself in too simplistic a
link between the Jewish Question with the Zionist Question--a
simplistic link that in fact craves to sever the deeper ontological
connection that might persist between the two questions. Such a
dominant, and far too quick, paradigm that by and large dominates the
anti-Zionist struggle has been that Zionism's misuse of the Holocaust
is somehow an aberration of Jewish thinking. Thus portrayed, Zionism
can be successfully isolated and fought against by Jews as Jews.
It is this very denial of the existential link between the Jewish
Question and the Zionist Question--a link that is suppressed by
formulations such as "Jews Against Zionism" or, more broadly, by many
attempts of "Jews" to become anti-Zionist - that needs to be
questioned and destabilised.To be an anti-Zionist without due regard
to that being and thinking that Zionism may so tragically continues,
may well be to confuse symptom and cause, thus perpetuating that
history that leaves the symptom--Zionism--intact. There is need to
fathom the extent to which the slogan "Jews against Zionism" may be an
oxymoron. Such an oxymoron may be at the heart of the denial, and
protection bestowed upon the denial, of the oxymoronic nature of
another notion, namely that of a "Jewish and democratic state".
It is the task of an intellectual to touch the untouchable and
liberate thinking from its blackmailed, somewhere idle, comfort zones.
I am firmly convinced that these vulgar attempts at silencing of Gilad
and other courageous voices offends against supremely thoughtful,
compassionate and egalitarian intellectual endeavours. This propaganda
of silencing which is characterised by breeding conflict and heresy
stalls a debate which is crucial for Palestine and for humanity.
Intellectual reflections on actuality, historicity, causes of events--
those primordial events that manifestations of violence, the Holocaust
amongst them, respond to - are not to be decided by picketing,
balloting and smearing.
What is an intellectual? What is an intellectual pursuit? Intellectual
pursuit is to make a connection that brings the unsaid and the
unsayable into language. As such, an intellectual pursuit is not only
about sharpening and clarifying but about being able to hear the
unsaid, thus making a connection and near actuality in a way that may
shock and surprise in its strangeness. Being an intellectual is first
and foremost to hold the mirror, or rather losing oneself in the
mirror.
The essence of an intellectual is free speech and therefore some
reflections on free speech are in order here.For an intellectual, free
speech is not a matter of choice, but a way of being, or responding,
of being response-able and therefore responsible. To authentically
speak rather than to be spoken by, to be active rather than passive,
is to respond in speech to self-concealing actuality.
That which needs to be brought into language by free speech is quite
often that which is most difficult to say and to hear.In fact so
difficult it might be that we might even venture to suggest that it is
essentially impossible to respond in speech to what is. So, rather, it
would be better to say that to speak is to respond to an always
antecedent and mysterious call, thus essentially belatedly and
distortingly--to respond to what needs to be attended to in speech. If
speech is the captive of discourse, the captive of represented group
identification, the captive of methodologies, the captive of a
representative narrative of captive of amputating version of
collective memory, the captive even in the notion of a thinking-
subject, it is not yet active speech.The Saying of speech is
irreducible to anything merely said and is always a response to a call
by a yet always-antecedent Saying that has already called upon the
speaker to respond.
Freedom of speech is an absence of constraint on free speech. Freedom
of speech is not merely associated with freedom of information but
with a freedom that ensures conditions for free speech, speech that
responds to what is unsaid- to something which is nameless and
inexpressible.
Sometimes freedom of speech can be understood as that condition in
which nobody has dominance over the means of representation. But even
this is not quite, not yet, to capture the essence of free speech.
Even conditions of absence of dominance of the means of representation
are still not conditions that allow for freedom of speech. This is
because equality of the means of representation does not by itself
entail free speech. Speech happens as the dark side of representations
and their means. Freedom of speech ensures the conditions for some
people to ethically bring the inexpressible into language without
giving up the secrets that language holds--secrets that call upon the
ear and the mind.
We need free speech in order to understand what might be the deep
origin of Zionism and in order to contemplate Zionism's so-successful
use of the Holocaust "memory". By simplistically condemning any free
speech about the mystery of the Holocaust as "anti-Semitic" or
"holocaust denial" the silencers suck all energy from our thinking,
thus playing into the hand of denials and vulnerabilities, thus
helping to tranquilise the mind from connectedness to primordial
events.
Moreover, it is the idle speech of those silencers which may in effect
deny the significance of the Holocaust. The significance of the
Holocaust, like the significance of terror and violence, is not
attended to by making it dependent upon, or subservient to, this or
that person or groups. The significance of the Holocaust is both
nebulous and ubiquitous to humanity.
We must not legalise the thinking about the Holocaust. We must not
turn thinking about it into a moral, legal or indeed factual
reflection. The horrors and murderous violence against Jews may have
been a response to events that had corrupted the relationship between
humans and Being long ago. Grasped thus, the Holocaust may have been
severely distorted by National Socialism; by those who are said to
"deny" the Holocaust by some arguments about facts; by self-righteous
Jews-against-Zionism; by Zionists. All these forms of forgetfulness of
the Holocaust may well be on a common matrix of denial. Indeed this
denial may constitute a chronicle of another Holocaust foretold.
My point is that the Holocaust's significance lies beyond the actions
by the Nazis who actually perpetrated the violence and who justified
these actions by turning this significance into a militarist object of
an idea. The same claim can be made in relation Zionists and their
Jewish opponents.
Thus, a simplistic anti-Zionist struggle - including such struggle's
memorialisation of the Holocaust by fighting against the abuse of
Holocaust memory by Zionists - may itself tragically become the most
sophisticated form of Holocaust denial. It is not simply that Zionism
denies the Holocaust. Those who fight Zionism may have already fallen
into that very fateful chronicle that Zionism participates in.
Voltaire's words concerning the freedom of speech loom large. I urge
all people with free speech as their guide to sign this petition and
to help by that to respond to the actuality of the actual in
Palestine, an actuality, again, which embraces all humanity and the
denial of which might well have catastrophic implications for
humanity.
I believe that only through holding of the mirror might there be a
faint chance to find a connective tissue to that being and thinking of
Israelis. Without holding this mirror the egalitarian struggle against
Zionism may well remain in distance and deafness to the self-
preserving violence in the Middle East and the World.
Oren Ben-Dor grew up in the State of Israel. He teaches political
philosophy and the philosophy of law at the School of Law, University
of Southampton, UK.His books Constitutional Limits and the Public
Sphere (2000) and Thinking about Law: In Silence with Heidegger (2007)
are published with Hart Publishing, Oxford. He can be reached at:
okbe...@yahoo.com
>
> You're the least effective debater here. Israel has a
>
>
>
> > terrible record.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
drahcir
Ball-less freak HHW is so afraid to answer my proof that Atzmon is a
liar that he hopes he can convince someone that the below has anything
to do with it. If Atzmon were silenced, I could not have proven him a
liar, and could not have thereby proven you not only a naive, silly
old fool for buying into his lie, but also a ball-less coward for
posting irrelevant crap like the below instead of contending with that
proof. The last thing I want is for the lowlife liar Atzmon to be
silenced.
>
>Freedom of Speech, Free Speech and Their Enemies
>The Silencing of Gilad Atzmon
>By OREN BEN-DOR
>
>I have recently signed a petition that condemns the constant attempts
>to silence Gilad Atzmon. The same petition also objects to the
>constant attempts to discredit and hinder the website that hosts,
>among others, Gilad's views--Peacepalestine--one of the more
>enlightening internet platforms on Palestine.
>
>It would be an understatement to say that debating Gilad's voice is
>supremely important. No thinking person could fail to be stimulated by
>the deep connections Gilad makes.
>
>Dwelling together in the unsaid is what makes intellectuals' innermost
>togetherness but it does not mean that all those who respond to the
>unsaid can be assimilated into one another so as to form some kind of
>a "group".
>
>All those who try to smother Gilad's endeavours, to distort his voice
>through vulgar associations and conventional clich�s, and to utilise
>uncritically accepted conventional havens for thoughtlessness, do not
>really do justice to the intellectual game as far as Palestine is
>concerned. I believe this message to be the essence of this petition.
>
>In Chronicle of a Death Foretold, Gabriel Garc�a M�rquez narrates the
>story of a village in which everybody understands that a murder is
>about to be committed in the near future. Yet, nobody is doing
>anything about this forthcoming event that is chronicled to happen.
>Some deep causes combine to make everybody complicit in diverting,
>repressing, hindering, "forgetting", being "delayed", in short
>avoiding any possibility of stopping the chronicle from happening.
>This concealment thus becomes a part of that fate that eventually
>leads to the death of Santiago Nasar.
>
>Garc�a M�rquez may have given us a metaphor of how fate can unfold as
coaste...@yahoo.com
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
The first of the IDF testimonies about Gaza:
“…In training you learn that white phosphorus is not used, and you’re
taught that it’s not humane. You watch films and see what it does to
people
who are hit, and you say, “There, we’re doing it too.” That’s not what
I
expected to see. Until that moment I had thought that I belonged to
the
most humane army in the world, I knew that even in the West Bank, when
we go into a neighborhood, we do it quietly so that people won’t see
us,
butalso in order not to disturb them, no less. An IDF soldier does not
shoot
for the sake of shooting nor does he apply excessive force beyond the
call
of the mission he is to perform. We saw the planes flying out and you
see
from which building the rocket is launched against Israel and you see
the
four houses surrounding that building collapsing as soon as the air
force
bombs. I don’t know if it was white phosphorus or not, and I don’t
really
care that much, but whole neighborhoods were simply razed
because four houses in the area served to launch Qassam rockets...”
drahcir
Hmm, if wp were "not humane", wouldn't it be banned by international
agreement?
Fish Supper
On Nov 18, 9:58 pm, "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> On Nov 18, 8:18 am, drahcir <justrichardsmu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> The first of the IDF testimonies about Gaza:
>
> taught that it�s not humane.
Hmm, if wp were "not humane", wouldn't it be banned by international
agreement?
***
Its use against any human being, civilian or military *IS* banned by
international agreement, you cretin!
You're a dick, Dick.
Israeli army bombs home in Gaza City, killing 21 members of a single family,
Jan. '09
"The members of my family who were killed in the bombing are:
my father, Fayiz, 60,
my mother, Kawkab, 55,
my sisters Raghdah, 30,
and Sabrin, 26, both single.
My brother Muhammad�s wife, Tazal Isma�il, 26, who was nine months pregnant,
and they had four children,
Amani, 7,
Qamar, 5,
Arij, 3, and
Yusef, 2.
My brother Iyad, 35,
his wife Rawdah, 28, and their children
Ali, 10,
Khitam, 9,
Alaa, 8,
Duha, 6,
Sharaf a-Din, 5, and
Muhammad, 1.
My brother Ramez, 25,
his wife Wafaa, 20, and their children,
Baraa, 3, and
Salsabil, 4 months."
But, what the fuck? They're only Pallies, right? Untermenschen, right? It's
not like they are members of your Jewish Master Race, right?
I mean, who cares when the Master Race exterminate the Untermenschen, right?
It's the natural way of things, right?
drahcir
> "drahcir" <justrichardsmu...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:423c7f53-4f0f-414d...@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com...
> On Nov 18, 9:58 pm, "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> > On Nov 18, 8:18 am, drahcir <justrichardsmu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > The first of the IDF testimonies about Gaza:
>
>
> Hmm, if wp were "not humane", wouldn't it be banned by international
> agreement?
>
> ***
> Its use against any human being, civilian or military *IS* banned by
> international agreement, you cretin!
Temper, temper, little one. Your answer did not apply to my question.
Read carefully, then try again.
>
> You're a dick, Dick.
What an original and creative wit you've become.
>
> Israeli army bombs home in Gaza City, killing 21 members of a single family,
> Jan. '09
>
> "The members of my family who were killed in the bombing are:
> my father, Fayiz, 60,
> my mother, Kawkab, 55,
> my sisters Raghdah, 30,
> and Sabrin, 26, both single.
>
> My brother Muhammad’s wife, Tazal Isma’il, 26, who was nine months pregnant,
Fish Supper
On Nov 19, 6:54 am, "Fish Supper" <l...@sea.com> wrote:
> "drahcir" <justrichardsmu...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:423c7f53-4f0f-414d...@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com...
> On Nov 18, 9:58 pm, "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> > On Nov 18, 8:18 am, drahcir <justrichardsmu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > The first of the IDF testimonies about Gaza:
>
>
> Hmm, if wp were "not humane", wouldn't it be banned by international
> agreement?
>
> ***
> Its use against any human being, civilian or military *IS* banned by
> international agreement, you cretin!
Temper, temper, little one. Your answer did not apply to my question.
Read carefully, then try again.
***
Yep. I've read it again and you've still been shown up as stupid.
You said if it was inhumane it would have been banned.
It HAS been banned.