Israel's nukes are going to be dismantled and destroyed. And there will be NO AMERICAN VETO!
coaste...@yahoo.com
Plainolamerican said:
> > their war - their problem
>
> So, it's not our problem if Israel decides to nuke a few ragheads,
> right?
>
> Deborah
Israel's nukes are going to be dismantled and destroyed. The Middle
East is going to become a Nuclear Free Zone! It's in the news today.
I've posted a new thread on it. HA! Attack Iran, indeed. Attack the
problem at its root! And THAT is the Israeli introduction of nuclear
weapons into the region in the first place.
The US and Russia are drafting the Security Council Resolution
TOGETHER as we type. Can you imagine that? The old Cold War rivals,
history's arch proliferationists, having just reduced their nuclear
weapons to about a sixth of what they were, are now working together
toward a nuclear free Middle East. All five permanent voting members
have already agreed on it and THEREFORE there will be no American
veto! Netanyahu has been "informed".
And if Israel refuses to cooperate? A unanimous Security Council
Resolution and SANCTIONS. There's a brilliant light at the end of the
tunnel. And just look at the timing. The proximity talks start today
or tomorrow.
This makes my day. How 'bout you, Deb? Nuking ragheads? Is that the
next step? Naaw, I don't think so.
CUNTICA
are sending a nuke your way!
plainolamerican
wrote:
---
right
just don't be surprised wwhen the muzzies join together and wipe
Israel off the map
Bert Hyman
news:e5b9e126-9d91-4baa...@f17g2000pra.googlegroups.com
"icono...@yahoo.com" <coaste...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Israel's nukes
What nukes?
> are going to be dismantled and destroyed.
By whom?
--
Bert Hyman St. Paul, MN be...@iphouse.com
TheZ
"icono...@yahoo.com" <coaste...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e5b9e126-9d91-4baa...@f17g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
CUNTICA
wwhen the muzzies join together and wipe
...............................................again?-
staten
> Innews:e5b9e126-9d91-4baa...@f17g2000pra.googlegroups.com
>
> "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Israel's nukes
>
> What nukes?
>
> > are going to be dismantled and destroyed.
>
> By whom?
By nuclear Iran.
drahcir
"Even while signing the statement – along with China, France, Russia
and the United Kingdom – US officials stressed, however, that current
circumstances in the Middle East would not allow for the immediate
implementation of the 1995 resolution. “Making progress on a Middle
East free of WMD will become all the more difficult if Iran continues
to raise concerns in the region and beyond about the nature of its
nuclear program,” a US official said.
The US, one of the original sponsors of the 1995 resolution, said
comprehensive regional peace is key to a WMD-free zone. “It is
unlikely that this will occur before Iran demonstrates that it has
come back into compliance with its NPT and IAEA safeguards
obligations,” a US official said."
Get it now, moron? This is simply a way to try to get Iran contained.
Bert Hyman
news:939e92f0-cf8d-4cb4...@i10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com
staten <stat...@lycos.com> wrote:
Well, don't hold your breath waiting.
But still, are you seriously cheerleading for a nuclear war?
tdny
"icono...@yahoo.com" <coaste...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e5b9e126-9d91-4baa...@f17g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
>
Everyone's nukes should be dismantled and destroyed, no exceptions.
A nuclear war would be terrible for everyone.
No country should have nuclear weapons.
Count 1
"tdny" <td...@live.com> wrote in message
news:y6ydnW_eqeCYs3_W...@earthlink.com...
Yipes.
Ever hear of something called 'MAD'? I know this will be hard for you to
accept because it's counter-intuitive, but a world without nukes would be a
world with a whole lot more conventional wars being fought.
You really need to think these things through a little more.
last_per...@yahoo.com
> Innews:e5b9e126-9d91-4baa...@f17g2000pra.googlegroups.com
>
This is why ZioNazi turds are hated. Hymen doesn't get it.
> > are going to be dismantled and destroyed.
>
> By whom?
Public demand, Hymen.
last_per...@yahoo.com
> "tdny" <t...@live.com> wrote in message
>
> news:y6ydnW_eqeCYs3_W...@earthlink.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
Is your gerbil restless, turdknocker?
> Ever hear of something called 'MAD'?
Ever hear of something called TURDKNOCKER? That's you.
coaste...@yahoo.com
> H, you are such a stupid, fucking child.
Oh yes, I had forgotten. You have an absolutely stunning record
somewhere, Ratner. No doubt you're famous for your vast knowledge and
objective probity. I will defer to all of these accomplishments when
you begin displaying them. Until then let's take a closer look at what
you've posted and whether it is likely you understand anything of it.
> "Even while signing the statement – along with China, France, Russia
> and the United Kingdom – US officials stressed, however, that current
> circumstances in the Middle East would not allow for the immediate
> implementation of the 1995 resolution.
Of course not. Israel will have to be convinced that *given the
circumstances presented to her* it's in her interests to disarm. Iran
will have to make an equivalent decision about her nuclear program.
They will both be offered compromise deals so transparently even
handed as to be difficult to refuse. And the key to that will be the
future of American policy. These deals will be the sums of many
conflicting currents, of many carrots and sticks which will be
trundled out in multilateral negotiations on a comprehensive Middle
East peace. The prospect of implementation of the 1995 resolution for
a nuclear free Middle East is a part of this pattern, not a stand
alone item. On reflection it demonstrates that the American interests
and obligations relate to the entire region and beyond, not to Israel
alone. It also demonstrates that the paralysis of our Congress which
has made it almost impossible to meet our obligations has been
something pretty close to a criminal act, at minimum it is a crime
against democracy.
“Making progress on a Middle
> East free of WMD will become all the more difficult if Iran continues
> to raise concerns in the region and beyond about the nature of its
> nuclear program,” a US official said.
Ha, look at this statement. It presumes that Israel is willing to
disarm but that Iran isn't! The opposite is far more likely, of
course. It also seems to suggest that things are going to be done
piecemeal. That's very doubtful. They will be done in accord with an
immense interconnected plan. The statement is designed to create
expectations that Israel will cooperate which we all know she won't do
unless forced by circumstances to do so. The pressure on Israel rises
inexorably and THAT is the key.
>
> The US, one of the original sponsors of the 1995 resolution, said
> comprehensive regional peace is key to a WMD-free zone. “It is
> unlikely that this will occur before Iran demonstrates that it has
> come back into compliance with its NPT and IAEA safeguards
> obligations,” a US official said."
>
> Get it now, moron? This is simply a way to try to get Iran contained.
Let's see if you get it. A comprehensive regional peace and a WMD-free
zone are inexorably intertwined. They are clearly in the American
interest. Both Israel and Iran will have to give up their WMD and
nuclear weapons programs. All the states in the region will. That's a
central key to the regional peace. No more attempts to balance WMD
terror. This situation is much larger than Israel. Israel can not be
an exception. She will have to join the NPT and make herself subject
to IAEA safeguards also if she is to be free of an Iranian threat.
That's the only way it can work. It's the only way she can get Iran
contained. Bombing the great Iranian nation into submission is a
demented, self-destructive and America-destructive delusion. We won't
cooperate in her doing it. Why should we when it's grossly contrary to
our national security?
Then, of course, there are the "facts on the ground" issues over in
Palestine. The solution to them is obvious. It could well take a
change of government in Israel, but that can be accomplished if
necessary. Israel is not going to be permitted to derail the regional
peace simply because it wants the West Bank. After all, they're not
exceptional, just difficult and stiff necked.
What do you bet, Ratner, that in the process Israel demands huge sums
of money from the United States, as if we hadn't already paid enough
for her sins?
coaste...@yahoo.com
> "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
Agreed. That's the long term American policy goal and it's being
seriously worked on by the Obama Administration. It's an immense
problem. No one wants to give them up until everyone else has. Israel
will not want to keep them regardless. The US once had more than
40,000 nuclear warheads. We now have 5,000. That's bizarre but not so
bizarre as 40,000. The trend is in the right direction. The next step
should be a nuclear free zone in South and Southeast Asia---and Korea-
Japan. I can see Obama working on them if we can get a peace in the
Middle East. It's something I truly believe can happen but only if the
Israeli obstructionists climb down. These things are so complex they
can't be done all at once. As Obama said at the Corresmpodents' Dinner
at the WH the other night, "I work a lot." But the guy's human. There
are limits.
drahcir
wrote:
> On May 5, 4:59 pm, drahcir <justrichardsmu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > H, you are such a stupid, fucking child.
>
> Oh yes, I had forgotten. You have an absolutely stunning record
> somewhere, Ratner. No doubt you're famous for your vast knowledge and
> objective probity. I will defer to all of these accomplishments when
> you begin displaying them. Until then let's take a closer look at what
> you've posted and whether it is likely you understand anything of it.
>
> > "Even while signing the statement – along with China, France, Russia
> > and the United Kingdom – US officials stressed, however, that current
> > circumstances in the Middle East would not allow for the immediate
> > implementation of the 1995 resolution.
>
> Of course not. Israel will have to be convinced that *given the
> circumstances presented to her* it's in her interests to disarm.
You obviously do not comprehend what you are reading. By "the current
circumstances", the US official is referring to Iran, not Israel. Your
aged, decrepit neurons misinterpreted, AGAIN.
Misguided blahblah just below.
Iran
> will have to make an equivalent decision about her nuclear program.
> They will both be offered compromise deals so transparently even
> handed as to be difficult to refuse. And the key to that will be the
> future of American policy. These deals will be the sums of many
> conflicting currents, of many carrots and sticks which will be
> trundled out in multilateral negotiations on a comprehensive Middle
> East peace. The prospect of implementation of the 1995 resolution for
> a nuclear free Middle East is a part of this pattern, not a stand
> alone item. On reflection it demonstrates that the American interests
> and obligations relate to the entire region and beyond, not to Israel
> alone. It also demonstrates that the paralysis of our Congress which
> has made it almost impossible to meet our obligations has been
> something pretty close to a criminal act, at minimum it is a crime
> against democracy.
>
> “Making progress on a Middle
>
> > East free of WMD will become all the more difficult if Iran continues
> > to raise concerns in the region and beyond about the nature of its
> > nuclear program,” a US official said.
>
> Ha, look at this statement. It presumes that Israel is willing to
> disarm but that Iran isn't!
Do you see the word "Israel" anywhere in the official's words?
The opposite is far more likely, of
> course. It also seems to suggest that things are going to be done
> piecemeal. That's very doubtful. They will be done in accord with an
> immense interconnected plan. The statement is designed to create
> expectations that Israel will cooperate which we all know she won't do
> unless forced by circumstances to do so. The pressure on Israel rises
> inexorably and THAT is the key.
>
Ah, now the moron is telling us what the statement is "designed to
create". You are a joke.
>
>
> > The US, one of the original sponsors of the 1995 resolution, said
> > comprehensive regional peace is key to a WMD-free zone. “It is
> > unlikely that this will occur before Iran demonstrates that it has
> > come back into compliance with its NPT and IAEA safeguards
> > obligations,” a US official said."
>
> > Get it now, moron? This is simply a way to try to get Iran contained.
>
> Let's see if you get it.
You obviously are not equipped to accomplish that. You are clueless.
More blahblah below. It's not only that what you say is so amazingly
stupid, it's that you can't seem to find a way to say it in less than
a few hundred words, EVER. Yet more mounds of silly, ignorable tripe
below.
coaste...@yahoo.com
> "tdny" <t...@live.com> wrote in message
>
> news:y6ydnW_eqeCYs3_W...@earthlink.com...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
When you think first of insults it's likely that the last thirty or
forty years have just passed you by. New political arrangements are
the primary source of the decline of traditional nation state warfare.
Nukes kept things quiet when needed opposite totalitarian
dictatorships in the 20th Century, but movements like the European
Union and NATO and events like the breakup of the Soviet Union and the
relative liberalization of China have taken their place. Nuclear
deterrence is too dangerous to use. It is obsolete. The incredible
lethality of "conventional" weapons in this era is also an effective
replacement deterrent. As far as nukes are concerned they pose by far
the greatest threat if they leak into the hands of terrorists. That's
America's number one security threat as we speak. Next step Pakistan
and India. That's more dangerous than North Korea. WHY? The Jihad
movement which is destabilizing Pakistan has much of its origins in
the inflamatory conduct of Israel in which we are complicit. That we
should be running the risk of New York City being incinerated by a
nuke in a container ship rather than "pressuring" Israel is insane.
Count 1
***
With Torres, anything could be considered an insult.
****
New political arrangements are
the primary source of the decline of traditional nation state warfare.
***
That's like saying 'up' is 'up'.
***
Nukes kept things quiet when needed opposite totalitarian
dictatorships in the 20th Century, but movements like the European
Union and NATO and events like the breakup of the Soviet Union and the
relative liberalization of China have taken their place. Nuclear
deterrence is too dangerous to use. It is obsolete. The incredible
lethality of "conventional" weapons in this era is also an effective
replacement deterrent. As far as nukes are concerned they pose by far
the greatest threat if they leak into the hands of terrorists. That's
America's number one security threat as we speak. Next step Pakistan
and India. That's more dangerous than North Korea. WHY? The Jihad
movement which is destabilizing Pakistan has much of its origins in
the inflamatory conduct of Israel in which we are complicit. That we
should be running the risk of New York City being incinerated by a
nuke in a container ship rather than "pressuring" Israel is insane.
****
The Jihad movement destabilizing Pakistan has it's origins in Salafism, not
Israel's conduct. Israel is just a scapegoat the Jihadists use to convince
gullible anti-semites in the west that their ideology isn't really
responsible for their violence. It's a false complaint, based on
misperceptions, outright falsehoods, and given credence only by the
ignorant. If Israel never existed Salafists would still hate you, and they
would still be craving the bomb to kill more infidels. I don't know what you
mean by 'next step Pakistan and India'. India is a relatively modern country
ideologically speaking, and is of no concern regarding terrorists and
nuclear weapons. However I am glad to see you are beginning to understand
why Iran can't be allowed to have the bomb. Given Iran has been found to be
in violation of their NPT obligations I suspect you too support stronger
sanctions and greater scrutiny of that country.
coaste...@yahoo.com
> On May 6, 1:15 pm, "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> > On May 5, 4:59 pm, drahcir <justrichardsmu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > H, you are such a stupid, fucking child.
>
> > Oh yes, I had forgotten. You have an absolutely stunning record
> > somewhere, Ratner. No doubt you're famous for your vast knowledge and
> > objective probity. I will defer to all of these accomplishments when
> > you begin displaying them. Until then let's take a closer look at what
> > you've posted and whether it is likely you understand anything of it.
>
> > > "Even while signing the statement – along with China, France, Russia
> > > and the United Kingdom – US officials stressed, however, that current
> > > circumstances in the Middle East would not allow for the immediate
> > > implementation of the 1995 resolution.
>
> > Of course not. Israel will have to be convinced that *given the
> > circumstances presented to her* it's in her interests to disarm.
>
> You obviously do not comprehend what you are reading. By "the current
> circumstances", the US official is referring to Iran, not Israel.
He was speaking of a Middle East nuclear free zone. That includes both
Israel and Iran among a score of other countries. I'll be happy to
add for a second time (I said it below but you seem to have forgotten
it):
"Iran, too, will have to be convinced that *given the circumstances
presented to her* it's in her interests to disarm." It's just that the
central problem regarding nuclear disarmament in the ME lies with the
regime which began the arms race, Israel.
> Misguided blahblah just below.
Perhaps this time you can support it?.
> Iran
> > will have to make an equivalent decision about her nuclear program.
> > They will both be offered compromise deals so transparently even
> > handed as to be difficult to refuse. And the key to that will be the
> > future of American policy. These deals will be the sums of many
> > conflicting currents, of many carrots and sticks which will be
> > trundled out in multilateral negotiations on a comprehensive Middle
> > East peace. The prospect of implementation of the 1995 resolution for
> > a nuclear free Middle East is a part of this pattern, not a stand
> > alone item. On reflection it demonstrates that the American interests
> > and obligations relate to the entire region and beyond, not to Israel
> > alone. It also demonstrates that the paralysis of our Congress which
> > has made it almost impossible to meet our obligations has been
> > something pretty close to a criminal act, at minimum it is a crime
> > against democracy.
>
> > “Making progress on a Middle
>
> > > East free of WMD will become all the more difficult if Iran continues
> > > to raise concerns in the region and beyond about the nature of its
> > > nuclear program,” a US official said.
>
> > Ha, look at this statement. It presumes that Israel is willing to
> > disarm but that Iran isn't!
>
> Do you see the word "Israel" anywhere in the official's words?
Israel is the elephant in the room. I saw Middle East. That means
Israel. Do you purport to deny that Israel's nuclear program is sited
in the Middle East? Will you say anything just to mislead?
>
> The opposite is far more likely, of> course. It also seems to suggest that things are going to be done
> > piecemeal. That's very doubtful. They will be done in accord with an
> > immense interconnected plan. The statement is designed to create
> > expectations that Israel will cooperate which we all know she won't do
> > unless forced by circumstances to do so. The pressure on Israel rises
> > inexorably and THAT is the key.
>
> Ah, now the moron is telling us what the statement is "designed to
> create". You are a joke.
Ha, the statement raised a question about Iranian cooperation but did
not mention Israel. Were a Martian listening in the presumption is
that there is greater concern about Iraq's cooperation than about
Israel's. If you think that's true you're sleep walking.
> > > The US, one of the original sponsors of the 1995 resolution, said
> > > comprehensive regional peace is key to a WMD-free zone. “It is
> > > unlikely that this will occur before Iran demonstrates that it has
> > > come back into compliance with its NPT and IAEA safeguards
> > > obligations,” a US official said."
And of course it won't happen until Israel signs and undergoes the
same process, obviously.
>
> > > Get it now, moron? This is simply a way to try to get Iran contained.
>
> > Let's see if you get it.
>
> You obviously are not equipped to accomplish that. You are clueless.
I'm read between 3,000 and 4,000 times a week. That wouldn't be
happening if I were a punching bag for you, Ratner. Your nerves are
getting the best of you, Ratner.
> More blahblah below.
You can't handle it. You can't say a thing in response. It's obvious.
It's not only that what you say is so amazingly
> stupid, it's that you can't seem to find a way to say it in less than
> a few hundred words, EVER. Yet more mounds of silly, ignorable tripe
> below.
I usually do HAVE something to say and it's on point. What's the use
in just alluding to it? Would I be doing that to minimize your pain?
Is that what you need? That's what triggers your nerves and anger?
Guess what, you can go begging for sympathy to someone else. Most of
what you say is filth. Most of the rest is misleading. You could be
more effective on behalf of Israel. I've explained to you how. You'd
rather malign and bullshit. You're the classic guy who would rather
make $100 by a scam than $1,000 honestly---with the same amount of
effort.
coaste...@yahoo.com
She's light years ahead of all toadies for the Israel Lobby and
Israel's current right-wing drang nach Osten types.
>
> ****
> New political arrangements are
> the primary source of the decline of traditional nation state warfare.
> ***
>
> That's like saying 'up' is 'up'.
You can't think of anything to say. What I'm telling you hasn't
occurred to you before.
>
> ***
> Nukes kept things quiet when needed opposite totalitarian
> dictatorships in the 20th Century, but movements like the European
> Union and NATO and events like the breakup of the Soviet Union and the
> relative liberalization of China have taken their place. Nuclear
> deterrence is too dangerous to use. It is obsolete. The incredible
> lethality of "conventional" weapons in this era is also an effective
> replacement deterrent. As far as nukes are concerned they pose by far
> the greatest threat if they leak into the hands of terrorists. That's
> America's number one security threat as we speak. Next step Pakistan
> and India. That's more dangerous than North Korea. WHY? The Jihad
> movement which is destabilizing Pakistan has much of its origins in
> the inflamatory conduct of Israel in which we are complicit. That we
> should be running the risk of New York City being incinerated by a
> nuke in a container ship rather than "pressuring" Israel is insane.
> ****
>
> The Jihad movement destabilizing Pakistan has it's origins in Salafism, not
> Israel's conduct.
People inclined to terroristic jihadism comprise some 1% of Muslims
world-wide. Will you condemn all Germans for the crimes of the SS or
the Gestapo? Yes, oh well, I expected that.
Israel is just a scapegoat the Jihadists use to convince
> gullible anti-semites in the west that their ideology isn't really
> responsible for their violence.
Israel, unfortunately, is a criminal state judged by the conduct of
it's political elite over the last sixty or more years.
It's a false complaint, based on
> misperceptions, outright falsehoods, and given credence only by the
> ignorant.
It is amazing that you absolve Israel of all her crimes and expect to
get away with it.
If Israel never existed Salafists would still hate you, and they
> would still be craving the bomb to kill more infidels.
Foolish. The movement is new, three or four decades for the most part.
It remains small but spectacular.
I don't know what you
> mean by 'next step Pakistan and India'. India is a relatively modern country
> ideologically speaking, and is of no concern regarding terrorists and
> nuclear weapons.
Come on, open your mind. India and Pakistan have been at daggers'
points since 1948. The nuclear free zone technique is perfect for
them. If Pakistan is in fact more dangerous as a proliferator it makes
no difference what India is like if we can get them both disarmed.
Qualitative political judgments don't make sense when the ultimate
goal is a global nuclear free zone.
However I am glad to see you are beginning to understand
> why Iran can't be allowed to have the bomb. Given Iran has been found to be
> in violation of their NPT obligations I suspect you too support stronger
> sanctions and greater scrutiny of that country.
You certainly are stubborn about your delusions. And equally stubborn
in your effort to mislead the readership about the conversation we had
about Ron Paul's statement. There have been no judicial findings of
an NPT violation against Iran. And no, I don't support any sanctions
against Iran.I would suspend them until the end of the negotiations
and then dismiss them if successful. Carrots and sticks. I support
the Middle East Nuclear Free Zone. And, for what it's worth, I
consider Israel to be a greater danger to world peace than Iran.
staten
wrote:
>Agreed. That's the long term American policy goal and it's being
>seriously worked on by the Obama Administration.
Right. After the Times Square car bomber and the crotch bomber, "the
long term American policy goal along with the best national
defense strategy is:Let's hope their bombs don't work!
But if Malik Hasan's gun had jammed at Fort Hood, that could have been
another huge foreign policy success for Obama. Obama repeatedly kept
telling Americans not to "jump to conclusions" but keep respecting
Islam - "the religion of peace"
>it's being seriously worked on by the Obama Administration.
Indeed. Now the Obama Administration tirelessly is working on new
fingers-crossed strategy supported by a new great plan - "Let's Make
Them Love Us By Showering Them With Billions!". Forget about nuclear
Iran spitting on the "world community". Who cares now about 19
Muslims, legally admitted to the U.S. and , murdered 3,000 Americans
in New York and Washington in a single day. Forget about 80 Muslim
men in America who have been charged, convicted, or sentenced on
terrorism-related charges just in 2009 alone. Obama Administration "is
being seriously worked" on our safety . Let's cross our fingers and
hope their bombs don't work! Sleep tight America! The Obama
Administration is guarding us!
drahcir
wrote:
> On May 6, 12:59 pm, drahcir <justrichardsmu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On May 6, 1:15 pm, "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
>
> > > On May 5, 4:59 pm, drahcir <justrichardsmu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > H, you are such a stupid, fucking child.
>
> > > Oh yes, I had forgotten. You have an absolutely stunning record
> > > somewhere, Ratner. No doubt you're famous for your vast knowledge and
> > > objective probity. I will defer to all of these accomplishments when
> > > you begin displaying them. Until then let's take a closer look at what
> > > you've posted and whether it is likely you understand anything of it.
>
> > > > "Even while signing the statement – along with China, France, Russia
> > > > and the United Kingdom – US officials stressed, however, that current
> > > > circumstances in the Middle East would not allow for the immediate
> > > > implementation of the 1995 resolution.
>
> > > Of course not. Israel will have to be convinced that *given the
> > > circumstances presented to her* it's in her interests to disarm.
>
> > You obviously do not comprehend what you are reading. By "the current
> > circumstances", the US official is referring to Iran, not Israel.
>
> He was speaking of a Middle East nuclear free zone.
No, by "current circumstances" he was referring to Iran. Here is the
unsnipped-apart quote again:
"Even while signing the statement – along with China, France, Russia
and the United Kingdom – US officials stressed, however, that current
circumstances in the Middle East would not allow for the immediate
implementation of the 1995 resolution. “Making progress on a Middle
East free of WMD will become all the more difficult if Iran continues
to raise concerns in the region and beyond about the nature of its
nuclear program,” a US official said.
The US, one of the original sponsors of the 1995 resolution, said
comprehensive regional peace is key to a WMD-free zone. “It is
unlikely that this will occur before Iran demonstrates that it has
come back into compliance with its NPT and IAEA safeguards
obligations,” a US official said."
See, idiot? Just after the phrase containing the words "current
circumstances" come reference to Iran. PERIOD.
That includes both
> Israel and Iran among a score of other countries. I'll be happy to
> add for a second time (I said it below but you seem to have forgotten
> it):
Who needs to rehear a quote of an idiot like you? The quote of the US
official is there for all to read - it does NOT MENTION ISRAEL. End of
story.
Again, your senility has obviously affected your reading
comprehension. Here is the quote again for your careful study:
"Even while signing the statement – along with China, France, Russia
and the United Kingdom – US officials stressed, however, that current
circumstances in the Middle East would not allow for the immediate
implementation of the 1995 resolution. “Making progress on a Middle
East free of WMD will become all the more difficult if Iran continues
to raise concerns in the region and beyond about the nature of its
nuclear program,” a US official said.
The US, one of the original sponsors of the 1995 resolution, said
comprehensive regional peace is key to a WMD-free zone. “It is
unlikely that this will occur before Iran demonstrates that it has
come back into compliance with its NPT and IAEA safeguards
obligations,” a US official said."
Do you see the word "Israel" anywhere? Hey, you're an alzheimers
victim, you probably do.
Do you purport to deny that Israel's nuclear program is sited
> in the Middle East? Will you say anything just to mislead?
Fuck off. The quote is the quote. It doesn't say what you want it to
day, so maybe you should jump up and down and yell - that may help.
As I scan down the page, there is absolutely zero of value from you -
par for the course. The quote says what it says, not what you want it
to say.
Count 1
She's light years ahead of all toadies for the Israel Lobby and
Israel's current right-wing drang nach Osten types.
***
She's a fool. I'm not suprised you think she's brilliant.
>
> ****
> New political arrangements are
> the primary source of the decline of traditional nation state warfare.
> ***
>
> That's like saying 'up' is 'up'.
You can't think of anything to say. What I'm telling you hasn't
occurred to you before.
***
Stating the obvious as if it's insightful is a common trait of the stupid.
>
> ***
> Nukes kept things quiet when needed opposite totalitarian
> dictatorships in the 20th Century, but movements like the European
> Union and NATO and events like the breakup of the Soviet Union and the
> relative liberalization of China have taken their place. Nuclear
> deterrence is too dangerous to use. It is obsolete. The incredible
> lethality of "conventional" weapons in this era is also an effective
> replacement deterrent. As far as nukes are concerned they pose by far
> the greatest threat if they leak into the hands of terrorists. That's
> America's number one security threat as we speak. Next step Pakistan
> and India. That's more dangerous than North Korea. WHY? The Jihad
> movement which is destabilizing Pakistan has much of its origins in
> the inflamatory conduct of Israel in which we are complicit. That we
> should be running the risk of New York City being incinerated by a
> nuke in a container ship rather than "pressuring" Israel is insane.
> ****
>
> The Jihad movement destabilizing Pakistan has it's origins in Salafism,
> not
> Israel's conduct.
People inclined to terroristic jihadism comprise some 1% of Muslims
world-wide. Will you condemn all Germans for the crimes of the SS or
the Gestapo? Yes, oh well, I expected that.
****
Who condemned all muslims for the crimes of Islamic terrorists?
Israel is just a scapegoat the Jihadists use to convince
> gullible anti-semites in the west that their ideology isn't really
> responsible for their violence.
Israel, unfortunately, is a criminal state judged by the conduct of
it's political elite over the last sixty or more years.
***
Like I said, "gullible anti-semites...."
It's a false complaint, based on
> misperceptions, outright falsehoods, and given credence only by the
> ignorant.
It is amazing that you absolve Israel of all her crimes and expect to
get away with it.
***
Focus Hunter, Jihadism doesn't have much of it's origins in Israel's
conduct. Plain fact.
If Israel never existed Salafists would still hate you, and they
> would still be craving the bomb to kill more infidels.
Foolish. The movement is new, three or four decades for the most part.
It remains small but spectacular.
***
Actually Salafism has been around for hundreds of years. Read up on it and
become less ignorant.
I don't know what you
> mean by 'next step Pakistan and India'. India is a relatively modern
> country
> ideologically speaking, and is of no concern regarding terrorists and
> nuclear weapons.
Come on, open your mind. India and Pakistan have been at daggers'
points since 1948. The nuclear free zone technique is perfect for
them. If Pakistan is in fact more dangerous as a proliferator it makes
no difference what India is like if we can get them both disarmed.
Qualitative political judgments don't make sense when the ultimate
goal is a global nuclear free zone.
***
Right now nukes on both sides are keeping people alive in the Pakistan/India
conflict. And they aren't in the ME anyway.
However I am glad to see you are beginning to understand
> why Iran can't be allowed to have the bomb. Given Iran has been found to
> be
> in violation of their NPT obligations I suspect you too support stronger
> sanctions and greater scrutiny of that country.
You certainly are stubborn about your delusions. And equally stubborn
in your effort to mislead the readership about the conversation we had
about Ron Paul's statement. There have been no judicial findings of
an NPT violation against Iran.
***
There doesn't need to be - the IAEA is the sole body tasked with verifying a
country has been living up to it's obligations, and they have made their
statement.
***
And no, I don't support any sanctions
against Iran.
***
Then you're one step closer to nukes in the hands of terrorists, what you
just described as 'the greatest threat'.
***
I would suspend them until the end of the negotiations
and then dismiss them if successful. Carrots and sticks. I support
the Middle East Nuclear Free Zone. And, for what it's worth, I
consider Israel to be a greater danger to world peace than Iran.
***
Of course you do, to anti-semites like yourself Israel is always the bad
guy. It's a tired refrain based on ignorance and gullibility.
Count 1
"staten" <stat...@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:58785ec5-b5f1-47d0...@b7g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...
***
roflmao
coaste...@yahoo.com
> On May 6, 1:35 pm, "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
TDNY said:
No country should have nuclear weapons.
And HW said:
> >Agreed. That's the long term American policy goal and it's being
> >seriously worked on by the Obama Administration.
And Staten says:
>
> Right. After the Times Square car bomber and the crotch bomber, "the
> long term American policy goal along with the best national
> defense strategy is:Let's hope their bombs don't work!
Do you believe that nuclear weapons are meant to deter terrorism? One
thing's sure. A country which thinks that way shouldn't have them.
Do you believe that you have a handle on another policy which will
prevent terrorist attacks on the US? What is it? The invasion of Java
and the occupation of Jakarta?
> But if Malik Hasan's gun had jammed at Fort Hood, that could have been
> another huge foreign policy success for Obama.
Obama inherited all of these problems. And Obama is a genuine friend
of Israel. You've simply got to get used to using a more realistic
definition of friendship. Israel needs a tough old Nurse Ratchet
nanny.
Obama repeatedly kept
> telling Americans not to "jump to conclusions" but keep respecting
> Islam - "the religion of peace"
No matter what struggle we may engage in in various parts of the
Muslim World, there is no benefit to us whatever in "disrespecting
Islam". It's flat out stupid. If you can think of a benefit, we'll all
be waiting to hear it. That's also true on whether Islam is a religion
of peace. Unless we actively want a culture war against the entire
Muslim World instead of with the active Jihadi bits of it, sure, add
deadly insults to their religion. That's what elements of the Lobby
are promoting, culture war. That's what drahcir is promoting on the
moderated group, culture war against the whole lot of them. "Most
terrorists are Muslims!" He knows that if he can sell that we'll do
the fighting and in the process will probably beat up Israel's most
immediate enemies, Iran and Syria. His problem is that George W. Bush,
the C pluser, is out of the scene. The present Administration is never
going to buy these stupidities.
> Indeed. Now the Obama Administration tirelessly is working on new
> fingers-crossed strategy supported by a new great plan - "Let's Make
> Them Love Us By Showering Them With Billions!". Forget about nuclear
> Iran spitting on the "world community".
I haven't seen wasted American money over there under Obama. You must
be confusing the current administration with its predecessor and
Haliburton, etc. He has gotten our troops out of combat in Iraq. The
Afghanistan adventure is a calculated gamble designed to smash up the
Taliban on behalf of Afghanistan and Pakistan. But he's set a
withdrawal date and If his history means anything he'll keep it.
Who cares now about 19
> Muslims, legally admitted to the U.S. and , murdered 3,000 Americans
> in New York and Washington in a single day.
Is "who cares" the question? No, Staten, we don't have a problem with
"caring". What we need is highly intelligent policy. All you suggest
is thoughtless lashing out irrespective of whether we have to capacity
to do more against your perceived enemies, or, rather, Israel's
perceived enemies, in the Muslim World. We've got 200,000 troops over
there now. We don't have any more.
Forget about 80 Muslim
> men in America who have been charged, convicted, or sentenced on
> terrorism-related charges just in 2009 alone.
Eighty Muslim men sentenced in 2009? Wow! Next step the occupation of
Indonesia! Jakarta ought to be a piece of cake next to Bagdadh. Just
ask George Bush. But where are you going to get the troops, from among
the young men of Manhattan? Not willingly, Staten. They're used to the
corn fed blue collar kids from fly over country actually doing the
bleeding and dying. Their families discourage soldiering.
Obama Administration "is
> being seriously worked" on our safety . Let's cross our fingers and
> hope their bombs don't work! Sleep tight America! The Obama
> Administration is guarding us!
You worry about being safe over here. To accomplish that the only
thing you suggest is more aggressive pugnacity over there. That's not
smart. But getting a handle on Israeli aggression against their
Palestinian neighbors and striking a deal with the Iranians is.
staten
wrote:
> On May 7, 8:58 am, staten <state...@lycos.com> wrote:
>
> > On May 6, 1:35 pm, "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
>
> TDNY said:
>
> No country should have nuclear weapons.
>
> And HW said:
>
> > >Agreed. That's the long term American policy goal and it's being
> > >seriously worked on by the Obama Administration.
>
> And Staten says:
>
>
>
> > Right. After the Times Square car bomber and the crotch bomber, "the
> > long term American policy goal along with the best national
> > defense strategy is:Let's hope their bombs don't work!
>
> Do you believe that nuclear weapons are meant to deter terrorism?
Any means are good fighting Islamic plague including nukes if jihadist
bastards lay their hands on it.
>One thing's sure. A country which thinks that way shouldn't have them.
I wonder how long it takes for Bsijis to knock out all your front
teeth if you would have said the same thing in front of the
Ahmenidijad palace.
>
> Do you believe that you have a handle on another policy which will
> prevent terrorist attacks on the US? What is it? The invasion of Java
> and the occupation of Jakarta?
I believe - not a single American or an Euro should die because of
Islam. Even if it takes to occupy the entire Islamic world. Fuck
your PC. If we have had Truman in the White House today , Churchill
in Europe and Patton leading our troops, the devilish creed of Islam
would have been reversed and rolled back to Mecca and buried deep
into sands where it came from long time ago.
> > But if Malik Hasan's gun had jammed at Fort Hood, that could have been
> > another huge foreign policy success for Obama.
>
> Obama inherited all of these problems. And Obama is a genuine friend
> ofIsrael.
Right. After Hitler and Haj Amin Al Huseiny, his lapdog.
>You've simply got to get used to using a more realistic
> definition of friendship.Israelneeds a tough old Nurse Ratchet
> nanny.
Israel needs just a freedom of actions. Israel kicked jihadi asses
very effectively without any nannies in five wars and it will do it
again. Just get away from its way!
> Obama repeatedly kept
>
> > telling Americans not to "jump to conclusions" but keep respecting
> > Islam - "the religion of peace"
>
> No matter what struggle we may engage in in various parts of the
> Muslim World, there is no benefit to us whatever in "disrespecting
> Islam". It's flat out stupid. If you can think of a benefit, we'll all
> be waiting to hear it.
The benefit here is only one for everybody who don't want to live
lives of pathetic dhimmis in their own countries – Islam got to be
stopped and reversed by any means available.
>That's also true on whether Islam is a religion
> of peace. Unless we actively want a culture war against the entire
> Muslim World instead of with the active Jihadi bits of it, sure, add
> deadly insults to their religion.
Insulting their or anyone religion shouldn't be an issue in the West .
We live in free countries in the West and we have all rights to say
anything we want about any religion. Islam has no privileges. You
fucking Islamo-cock-sucking libs taking away our freedom. A
country that compromises on its freedom is no longer free. It will
know fear. It will know terror. It will be oppressed, and there will
be no relief from that oppression. That's exactly what is happening in
the West today. We are not free anymore !
>That's what elements of the Lobby
> are promoting, culture war. That's what drahcir is promoting on the
> moderated group, culture war against the whole lot of them. "Most
> terrorists are Muslims!"
That's exactly right- most terrorists are Muslims. 3,314 killed in 67
terror attacks Americans and , 15,257 deadly terror attacks in the
world since 9/1 have been perpetrated not by Russians , Jews or
Hindus but by Muslims and Muslims only.
>He knows that if he can sell that we'll do
> the fighting and in the process will probably beat upIsrael'smost
> immediate enemies, Iran and Syria.
Again, give Israel a freedom of action and she will take care of them
all! Right now our soldiers die not for Israel , but for Islam
introducing them to “democracy” they hate. This is wrong. Dead
wrong.
>``1His problem is that George W. Bush,
> the C pluser, is out of the scene. The present Administration is never
> going to buy these stupidities.
The present Administration is surrendering to Islam and helps
promoting sharia in the world. It's double suicidal stupidity.
> > Indeed. Now the Obama Administration tirelessly is working on new
> > fingers-crossed strategy supported by a new great plan - "Let's Make
> > Them Love Us By Showering Them With Billions!". Forget about nuclear
> > Iran spitting on the "world community".
>
> I haven't seen wasted American money over there under Obama.
So, wasting multi millions on Hamas cutthroats and bribing Islam
worldwide with billions is not a wasting to you? What we got in
return except more hatred, more terror plots , more Malik Hasans, more
Times Square attempted bombings and more jihadis with bombs tied to
their balls?
.
>You must
> be confusing the current administration with its predecessor and
> Haliburton, etc. He has gotten our troops out of combat in Iraq.
No. They are still die for Islam there.
>The Afghanistan adventure is a calculated gamble designed to smash up the
> Taliban on behalf of Afghanistan and Pakistan.
By court-marshaling our troops for using “excessive force” against
our enemies? By applying draconian ROE as a result of which our
troops die because our leaders are moral cowards? By forcing our
troops to respect our enemies and their religion not even allowing
them to enter mosques which have become terrorist safe houses, bomb
factories and weapons caches? That's what you call “smashing up
Taliban”? The murderous , head-chopping jihadis are laughing their
asses out seeing how today's Western troops led by the liberal idiots
are scared of their own might and fight with their one eye chained to
the Rules Of Engagement booklet leaving behind dead bodies of their
fellows. If we have fought Nazi Germany and Japan with the same
methods we fight Islam today, WWII still would have been roaring in
Europe and in the Pacific.
>But he's set a
> withdrawal date and If his history means anything he'll keep it.
He set a surrender date. Surrender to Islam. That's for sure.
> Who cares now about 19
>
> > Muslims, legally admitted to the U.S. and , murdered 3,000 Americans
> > in New York and Washington in a single day.
>
> Is "who cares" the question? No, Staten, we don't have a problem with
> "caring". What we need is highly intelligent policy.
We have that policy. It's called a full surrender to Islam and Sharia.
Now Obama's dhimmi officials even cannot say “Islamic terrorism”
anymore. They can say anything but “Islamic”.
That's not all. Sucking up to Islam has sunk to a new low . Now ,
even on cable television, on a network where anything goes, one thing
does not go: Depicting Mohammed, even in a bear suit (remember Comedy
Central where they were afraid to say the word Mohammed?). That same
iron law has been unofficially passed in country after country, where
operas, newspapers, books, television programs have been censored in
order to avoid offending the Muslims who might kill them, if they
were not censored. Free speech in America and in EU does not exist
anymore. Thank you liberal comrades and Chairman Obama !
>All you suggest
> is thoughtless lashing out irrespective of whether we have to capacity
> to do more against your perceived enemies, or, rather,Israel's
> perceived enemies, in the Muslim World.
No they are not “perceived,” , idiot. They are real. They are here.
3,314 Americans killed by Muslims in 67 terror attacks on Amrican
soil. 15 , 257 deadly terror attacks since 9/11 have been committed by
Muslims across the world. How many Americans need to die more before
you say that enemies are not “perceived” but REAL, you self-
satisfied , suicidal moron ?
>We've got 200,000 troops over
> there now. We don't have any more.
We can have 2,000,000, 20, 000,0000 and the result will be still the
same. How we suppose to fight our enemies if in the Obama's FBI’s
Counter-Terrorism Manual, the words “Islam” and “jihad” cannot be
found? Who are we fighting now ? Ghosts armies?
>
> Forget about 80 Muslim
>
> > men in America who have been charged, convicted, or sentenced on
> > terrorism-related charges just in 2009 alone.
>
> Eighty Muslim men sentenced in 2009? Wow!
Yep. Expect more in 2010, if Hussein O won't be impeached.
>Next step the occupation of
> Indonesia! Jakarta ought to be a piece of cake next to Bagdadh. Just
> ask George Bush. But where are you going to get the troops, from among
> the young men of Manhattan? Not willingly, Staten. They're used to the
> corn fed blue collar kids from fly over country actually doing the
> bleeding and dying. Their families discourage soldiering.
Anyone familiar with Skinner Boxes knows that one method of keeping a
dog from ever entering an area forbidden to him is to give him not a
mild shock, not an extreme shock, not a strong shock, but to give such
an overwhelming, devastating, horrific shock that the dog will endure
a punishment ten times worse rather than enter the area again. This is
the way how to treat Islam. We have all means to do this. And we don't
need too much troops. Ask our ancestors. They perfectly were aware -
in war, the Muslims could be either victorious or dead. So to defeat
the Muslims, they need to be fought to their deaths. At the Battle of
Tours in 732, the brave Franks being in minority surrounded the Arab-
Muslim army and slaughtered it almost up to the last man and saved
France and Europe from Islam. That was the right way. The Franks had
determination and will to destroy their enemies and they were
victorious. We have Obama, ROEs and we losing ground to Islam in
spite of astounding military superiority. Unbelievable.
>
> Obama Administration "is
>
> > being seriously worked" on our safety . Let's cross our fingers and
> > hope their bombs don't work! Sleep tight America! The Obama
> > Administration is guarding us!
>
> You worry about being safe over here. To accomplish that the only
> thing you suggest is more aggressive pugnacity over there. That's not
> smart.
That's very smart. Ask the Franks and the Crusaders. Europe is free
today only because they crashed Islam without giving up any country to
Islam or bribing it with billions , like Obama and his dhimmi marxist
pack sacrificing Israel today.
>But getting a handle on Israeli aggression against their
> Palestinian neighbors and striking a deal with the Iranians is.
After Israel, the next “palestine” will be in EU and still later in
California or New York. Islam knows no compromises. No sacrifices and
no billions can bribe Islam untill all of the world will be Dar al-
Islam. Striking a deal with Islam is a sure recipe for suicide. If you
don't treasure your life, go and commit suicide alone. Don't hold us
hostage of your liberal idiocy.
drahcir
OK, OK, I admit it - it's true. I tried to foist onto the group the
absurd proposition that most terrorists are Muslim. In hindsight, what
could have ever prompted me to make an absurd claim like that? Just
because nearly every terrorist attack in the last 10 or 20 years has
been perpetrated by Muslims, certainly that's no reason to assume most
terrorists are Muslim! No, you saw right through that flawed logic.
Hell, I'd have to wake up pretty early in the morning to put one over
on you! Hey, if not for you, I'd probably be able to get this group to
believe that most Sumo wrestlers are Japanese! But with you standing
in my way, I won't even try, because you are just too clever for me!
Imbecile....
coaste...@yahoo.com
wrote:
Reposted to eliminate a single three letter word.
>
> Agreed. That's the long term American policy goal and it's being
> seriously worked on by the Obama Administration. It's an immense
> problem. No one wants to give them up until everyone else has. Israel
> will want to keep them regardless. The US once had more than
staten
wrote:
*People inclined to terroristic jihadism comprise some 1% of Muslims
*world-wide. Will you condemn all Germans for the crimes of the SS or
*the Gestapo? Yes, oh well, I expected that.
"1% of Muslims world-wide", you say? The number certainly is bigger
according to surveys released in Indonesia alone where one in 10
Indonesian Muslims support violent jihad. But let's take your
apologist, dhimmi number and do quick math:
1,5 billion Muslims. 1% for jihad . It comes up with 15,000,000
butchers , live ticking bombs ready to blow up millions of infidels
in their infidel countries. This figure is still much bigger than the
number of Germans when Hitler and his pagan hordes were marching
across Europe. Add up to this number millions of those Muslims who
sympathizing with jihad, morally and financially support their ready-
to-explode-millions-of-infidels brethren and you get a whole picture.
It's very "tiny minority", as you jihad apologists love to say. Why do
we should waste our time splitting hairs?
staten
> If Israel never existed Salafists would still hate you, and they
> would still be craving the bomb to kill more infidels.
*Foolish. The movement is new, three or four decades for the most
part.
*It remains small but spectacular.
New movement? Let's see how "new" it is and why Muslims keep murdering
infidels during "three or four last decades". You surely trying to
convince us that Muslims are very "upset" by the creation of the state
of Israel.
OK, let's go to evidences why Israel "upset" so much pious Muslims
who lived in peace and tranquility with infidels before this
"barbaric" state was created by the "wicked" Zionists in 1948:
Before 18 century millions and millions of infidels were murdered by
advancing Islam from Sauidi deserts to India where jihad killed 80
million Hindus, not because of Israel
From 1843 to 1846 10,000 Assyrian Christians including women and
children were massacred by the Muslims, not because of Israel
From 1894 to 1896 Muslims killed 1,5 millions Armenian
Christians, not because of Israel.
In 1933 thousands of Assyrian villagers were murdered by the Iraqi
Muslims
in Northern Iraq not because of Israel.
3,000,000 Bangladeshi Hindus were killed by Muslims during the
Pakistan-Bangladesh war in 1971 not because of Israel.
In July 1974, 4,000 Christians living in
Cyprus were killed by Muslims not because of Israel.
Over 280,000 Ugandans were killed during the reign Islamist government
of
Idi Amin not because of America and Israel.
Since 1990more than 10,000 Kashmiri Hindus have been brutally murdered
by
Islamic jihadis not because of Israel.
The millions who died in the Iran-Iraq war had nothing to do with
Israel.
The open slavery and mass murder happening right now in Sudan, where
the
Arab Moslem regime is massacring its black Christian citizens, has
nothing
to do with Israel.
The open slavery and killings in Mauritania by Muslims while we speak
has
nothing to do with Israel.
Egypt used poison gas against Yemen and mass murdered Yemenis in the
60's
not because of Israel.
Assad the Father who killed tens of thousands of his own citizens in
one
week in El Hamma in Syria not because of Israel.
Since 1992 120,000 Algerians have been murdered by the Islamic
jihadis not because of Israel.
Saddam who murdered hundred of thousands of his own citizens not
because of
Israel.
The Taliban control of Afghanistan , the civil war and killings there
had nothing to do with Israel..
Ethiopia vs. Eritrea and killings there are not because of
Israel.
Jihad, beheadings and killings that have been committed by Muslims in
Philippines are not because of Israel.
Jihad, beheadings and bombings in India and Indonesia that have been
committed by Muslims there involves no Israel there.
Jihad and killings by Islamists in Daghestan, jihad and killings in
Uighur
in China, jihad and killings by Islamic jihadi extremists in
Uzbekistan are
not because of Israel.
Jihad , Thailand Moslem's insurrection and killings there not because
of
Zionists and Israel.
Moscow's subway bombings,800 hostages in a Moscow theatre,
slaughtering of
Russian kids in Beslan , bombing of two Russian jet liners full of
passengers and blowing up two express trains this year were committed
by Muslims not because they tried to avenge the creation of Israel.
Beheading of critics of Islam, rioting and setting on fire
properties, thousands of cars and murdering people in Europe have been
committed by Muslims not because of Zionism and Israel.
Now try to explain what Israel has in common with all this Islamo mega
butchery in the world and why you are keep lying that "this movement
is new and small"?
coaste...@yahoo.com
> On May 8, 12:42 am, "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> > On May 7, 8:58 am, staten <state...@lycos.com> wrote:
>
> > > On May 6, 1:35 pm, "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com>
> > > wrote:
>
> > TDNY said:
>
> > No country should have nuclear weapons.
>
> > And HW said:
>
> > > >Agreed. That's the long term American policy goal and it's being
> > > >seriously worked on by the Obama Administration.
>
> > And Staten says:
>
> > > Right. After the Times Square car bomber and the crotch bomber, "the
> > > long term American policy goal along with the best national
> > > defense strategy is:Let's hope their bombs don't work!
>
> > Do you believe that nuclear weapons are meant to deter terrorism?
>
> Any means are good fighting Islamic plague including nukes if jihadist
> bastards lay their hands on it.
But they have NOT yet laid their hands on it. That's a significant
fact. I've read your entire post before responding. It's clear to me
that you want a general American war against "Islam" including the use
of nuclear weapons. I ask you why America should fight this war? Why
is it to be "our" war? If it isn't our war, I ask you on whose behalf
she should fight it? And why?
You are obviously Jewish and your internal answer is "for Israel".
Accordingly I have less difficulty understanding your fanaticism and
the tremendous disjunct between your views and reality at every level.
> >One thing's sure. A country which thinks that way shouldn't have
them.
> I wonder how long it takes for Bsijis to knock out all your front
> teeth if you would have said the same thing in front of the
> Ahmenidijad palace.
About as long as it takes Israels to murder hundreds of Palestinian
women and children from helos and F-16s in Gaza. Not long.
> > Do you believe that you have a handle on another policy which will
> > prevent terrorist attacks on the US? What is it? The invasion of Java
> > and the occupation of Jakarta?
>
> I believe - not a single American or an Euro should die because of
> Islam. Even if it takes to occupy the entire Islamic world.
These are the two most demented sentences I''ve read here ever. You
want not a single American to die but you advise the conquest and
occupation of the entire Muslim World. Haha, though you don't hint at
an idea as to what is to be done with it then.
Fuck
> your PC.
Me, politically correct? You've lost your grip. I'm the Iconoclast. I
am in constant search for speech taboos to break.
If we have had Truman in the White House today , Churchill
> in Europe and Patton leading our troops, the devilish creed of Islam
> would have been reversed and rolled back to Mecca and buried deep
> into sands where it came from long time ago.
Over the duration we had 16,000,000 men under arms in WWII. We
couldn't conquer and hold the entire Muslim World if we had all of
them available today. And we have great difficulty fielding 200,000 in
Asia now. Have you been in the military? Few Jews have that experience
today. Most anyone who has is going to conclude you're simply nuts. We
ran out of gas trying to occupy Iraq alone with our volunteer army.
Marshall, the greatest soldier of Truman's era, almost convinced him
not to recognize Israel in 1948 precisely because it could get the
country into a bottomless pit such as you envisage. The entire
professional staff at State agreed with him. I agree to this day with
his advice. At the time Israel was already six months into the ethnic
cleansing of Palestine. It wasn't too difficult to see what the future
held for her "ally". But Truman was running for another term........
> > > But if Malik Hasan's gun had jammed at Fort Hood, that could have been
> > > another huge foreign policy success for Obama.
>
> > Obama inherited all of these problems. And Obama is a genuine friend
> > ofIsrael.
>
> Right. After Hitler and Haj Amin Al Huseiny, his lapdog.
You're obviously far more concerned with Israel than with the United
States. That's common among Jewish Zionists. You want the US to
conquer all of the Muslim World for Israel. Guess what? You can't have
that. And what's more Israel can't have the West Bank. And it can't
terrorize the region with nukes. You are just going to have to get
used to it. You're going to have to get used to the American
government and Congress saying "no" because the Israel Lobby is going
to register as an agent for a foreign country and get the hell out of
corrupting our Congress on Israel issues.
> >You've simply got to get used to using a more realistic
> > definition of friendship.Israelneeds a tough old Nurse Ratchet
> > nanny.
>
> Israel needs just a freedom of actions. Israel kicked jihadi asses
> very effectively without any nannies in five wars and it will do it
> again. Just get away from its way!
That chance for Israel is coming too. She's going to get choices from
the United States and one of those choices will be that if she want's
to keep the West Bank we'll be ending our support. If she wants to
attack Iran we'll be out of there. If she rejects the nuclear free
zone we'll be out of there. We're not in Israel's way. In fact Israel
can capture and subdue the Muslim world on her own if she likes. We
can't stop that. But she's not going to get away with getting what she
wants in money and materiel and diplomatic support without conforming
to our interests. You understand that. We dont want to experience the
subduing of the Muslim World. There's nothing in it for us.
> > Obama repeatedly kept
>
> > > telling Americans not to "jump to conclusions" but keep respecting
> > > Islam - "the religion of peace"
>
> > No matter what struggle we may engage in in various parts of the
> > Muslim World, there is no benefit to us whatever in "disrespecting
> > Islam". It's flat out stupid. If you can think of a benefit, we'll all
> > be waiting to hear it.
>
> The benefit here is only one for everybody who don't want to live
> lives of pathetic dhimmis in their own countries – Islam got to be
> stopped and reversed by any means available.
You're the most amazing alarmist on a political subject I ever
encountered. If you're young enough I suggest you try a stint in the
military. You'll mature very rapidly.
>
> >That's also true on whether Islam is a religion
> > of peace. Unless we actively want a culture war against the entire
> > Muslim World instead of with the active Jihadi bits of it, sure, add
> > deadly insults to their religion.
>
> Insulting their or anyone religion shouldn't be an issue in the West .
I'm not speaking of the impact in the West though that would be
incredulous disbelief.
> We live in free countries in the West and we have all rights to say
> anything we want about any religion.
Claro. Except that's not the point. Why should we infuriate our enemy
more by insulting their God and His Prophet? What do we gain by that?
Matters of War and Peace are not adolescent name calling exercises.
They are governed by real world calculations of gain and loss. What's
to be gained by doing this stupid thing? Don't avoid this now. Maybe
you are just overwrought, but we don't put such people in positions of
responsibility.
Islam has no privileges.
So your thing is to fight for the right (which you say you already
have) to bad mouth religions.
You
> fucking Islamo-cock-sucking libs taking away our freedom. A
> country that compromises on its freedom is no longer free.
We're a lot freer than Israel, the Shin Bet State. At least we were
until we lost a big slice of our foreign policy sovereignty to
Israel's domestic lobby.
It will
> know fear. It will know terror. It will be oppressed, and there will
> be no relief from that oppression. That's exactly what is happening in
> the West today. We are not free anymore !
What I see is that when a Muslim gets out of line in the USA he gets
hammered. What more do you want, gas chambers?
> >That's what elements of the Lobby
> > are promoting, culture war. That's what drahcir is promoting on the
> > moderated group, culture war against the whole lot of them. "Most
> > terrorists are Muslims!"
>
> That's exactly right- most terrorists are Muslims. 3,314 killed in 67
> terror attacks Americans
Yes, and three thousand of them in one event. And most of the other
314 were killed overseas. You're forgetting our military and civilian
casualties in the wars we've been waging to protect the strategic
position of Israel as a colonial state in the Muslim World. You have
let yourself become terrorized, it's a sort of sympathetic terror you
feel when thinking of Israel.. As I say, join the military. Insist on
the enlisted ranks in the infantry. When this fantasy of yours comes
true we will be able to imagine you slogging in the foothills of the
Himalayas in search of "Muslims". Be sure you INSIST on the infantry.
You're a tough Zionist. Don't shirk your duty!
and , 15,257 deadly terror attacks in the
> world since 9/1 have been perpetrated not by Russians , Jews or
> Hindus but by Muslims and Muslims only.
You are disrespecting our military dead and wounded. You don't even
mention them. But perhaps that's for political purposes, eh?
>
> >He knows that if he can sell that we'll do
> > the fighting and in the process will probably beat up Israel's most
> > immediate enemies, Iran and Syria.
>
> Again, give Israel a freedom of action and she will take care of them
> all! Right now our soldiers die not for Israel , but for Islam
> introducing them to “democracy” they hate. This is wrong. Dead
> wrong.
That's pretty twisted logic. We've thus killed 1,300,000 Iraqis by
fighting for them? By the way, I'm not for regime change and nation
building in the region. I'm for an offshore policy like we had before
we got entangled with the Israeli colonial endeavor in Palestine. It
worked fine.
>
> >``1His problem is that George W. Bush,
> > the C pluser, is out of the scene. The present Administration is never
> > going to buy these stupidities.
>
> The present Administration is surrendering to Islam and helps
> promoting sharia in the world. It's double suicidal stupidity.
Why should you, the tough conservative, give a damn about sharia in
Islamic countries. That's not our business. You're waving a bloody
shirt to keep us aimed at Israel's enemies. In fact that's the whole
shtick here: keep the dim witted American public hostile to the Muslim
World and we'll have time to complete our Greater Israel plan while
nobody's looking.
> > > Indeed. Now the Obama Administration tirelessly is working on new
> > > fingers-crossed strategy supported by a new great plan - "Let's Make
> > > Them Love Us By Showering Them With Billions!". Forget about nuclear
> > > Iran spitting on the "world community".
>
> > I haven't seen wasted American money over there under Obama.
>
> So, wasting multi millions on Hamas cutthroats and bribing Islam
> worldwide with billions is not a wasting to you?
We've been bribing Israel for forty years. The bribing of Egypt was
concocted by Henry Kissenger on the Israel model a long time ago. It
worked. That flank has been pretty quiet for Israel. As to Hamas, you
simply betray that your interests are Israeli, not American. America
wants a settlement over there. Hamas is the duly elected government in
Gaza. The Palestinians have to have governments if we're ever to
extricate OURSELVES from this Israeli mess which goes back to 1947. To
permit Israel to atomize the Palestinian people may be seemingly in
Israel's interest but it surely is not in ours.
What we got in
> return except more hatred, more terror plots , more Malik Hasans, more
> Times Square attempted bombings and more jihadis with bombs tied to
> their balls?
What do you expect, Staten. The brutal, grasping occupation has been
going on since 1967 in the West Bank alone. You people started the war
against the Palestinian people in 1947. It has never stopped. They're
not giving up. They are no more terrorist than were you in the 1920s
and 30s. By your logic we should have occupied and put down the Jewish
terrorists of Palestine. You look pretty hypocritical here.
>
> .
>
> >You must
> > be confusing the current administration with its predecessor and
> > Haliburton, etc. He has gotten our troops out of combat in Iraq.
>
> No. They are still die for Islam there.
They die by the hand of our enemies but not for them. That's twisted
logic. We've killed far too many of THEM to be dying for them.
>
> >The Afghanistan adventure is a calculated gamble designed to smash up the
> > Taliban on behalf of Afghanistan and Pakistan.
>
> By court-marshaling our troops for using “excessive force” against
> our enemies?
Women and children are not our enemies.
By applying draconian ROE as a result of which our
> troops die because our leaders are moral cowards?
Strong words from a man who I suspect has not served. Have you any
idea what the next draft statute is going to look like? There will be
no marital, college or professional exemptions. Everyone will have to
go. No exemptions for Harvard and Yale.
By forcing our
> troops to respect our enemies and their religion not even allowing
> them to enter mosques which have become terrorist safe houses, bomb
> factories and weapons caches? That's what you call “smashing up
> Taliban”? The murderous , head-chopping jihadis are laughing their
> asses out seeing how today's Western troops led by the liberal idiots
> are scared of their own might and fight with their one eye chained to
> the Rules Of Engagement booklet leaving behind dead bodies of their
> fellows. If we have fought Nazi Germany and Japan with the same
> methods we fight Islam today, WWII still would have been roaring in
> Europe and in the Pacific.
Join the military. You're a wannabe war criminal. You'll come to
understand that it's not like reading comic books. The ROE reflect
what we are or at least want to be as a people. They also display an
attempt to honor international law. The Israelis don't share our
values. We're not going to become Israelis.Surely not under Barak
Obama. Rather than tear that down those ROE we should choose not to
get involved over there. We have no stake in it anyway. Tell us, what
stake do non Jewish Americans have in Israel keeping the West Bank?
>
> >But he's set a
> > withdrawal date and If his history means anything he'll keep it.
>
> He set a surrender date. Surrender to Islam. That's for sure.
Not at all. It's a date by which it will be reasonable to believe that
we have either prevailed or can not with any reasonable level of
effort. The war in Iraq and Afghanistan have lasted something like
nine years. He's not going to let that run on. He's going to face the
facts and take the heat. In the meantime he's going to focus on our
greatest problem, Israel.
>
> > Who cares now about 19
>
> > > Muslims, legally admitted to the U.S. and , murdered 3,000 Americans
> > > in New York and Washington in a single day.
>
> > Is "who cares" the question? No, Staten, we don't have a problem with
> > "caring". What we need is highly intelligent policy.
>
> We have that policy. It's called a full surrender to Islam and Sharia.
You're hyperventilating. Get a hold of yourself. Join the military, go
to Afghanistan. We'll see if you''re still a war monger on behalf of
Israel. We'll see if you still want us to fight to the last Goy to
enable Israel to keep the West Bank.
> Now Obama's dhimmi officials even cannot say “Islamic terrorism”
> anymore. They can say anything but “Islamic”.
Why is it a good idea to use the term? You want some sort of yellow
journalism standards to govern matters of war and peace here. We're
getting plenty of that from the Israel lobby and the shall we say
influenced press.
>
> That's not all. Sucking up to Islam has sunk to a new low . Now ,
> even on cable television, on a network where anything goes, one thing
> does not go: Depicting Mohammed, even in a bear suit (remember Comedy
> Central where they were afraid to say the word Mohammed?). That same
> iron law has been unofficially passed in country after country, where
> operas, newspapers, books, television programs have been censored in
> order to avoid offending the Muslims who might kill them, if they
> were not censored. Free speech in America and in EU does not exist
> anymore. Thank you liberal comrades and Chairman Obama !
Because name calling is just provocation. We gain nothing by expanding
the number of our enemies. Join the military. That will actually help
the effort. Off to the foothills of the Himalayas to hunt down
"Muslims". You'll find it edifying. Maybe as a certified Muslim
Exterminator you can help the sale of war bonds when you come back a
hero.
>
> >All you suggest
> > is thoughtless lashing out irrespective of whether we have to capacity
> > to do more against your perceived enemies, or, rather,Israel's
> > perceived enemies, in the Muslim World.
Quick, Staten, tell us why we fight the Taliban in Afghanistan. Who
the hell are they and why do we need to kill them?
>
> No they are not “perceived,” , idiot. They are real. They are here.
> 3,314 Americans killed by Muslims in 67 terror attacks on Amrican
> soil. 15 , 257 deadly terror attacks since 9/11 have been committed by
> Muslims across the world. How many Americans need to die more before
> you say that enemies are not “perceived” but REAL, you self-
> satisfied , suicidal moron ?
>
> >We've got 200,000 troops over
> > there now. We don't have any more.
>
> We can have 2,000,000, 20, 000,0000 and the result will be still the
> same.
Then subduing the Muslim World is obviously nonsense.
How we suppose to fight our enemies if in the Obama's FBI’s
> Counter-Terrorism Manual, the words “Islam” and “jihad” cannot be
> found? Who are we fighting now ? Ghosts armies?
>
How do you suggest that we fight our political enemies, the Lobby and
the Israelis?
>
> > Forget about 80 Muslim
>
> > > men in America who have been charged, convicted, or sentenced on
> > > terrorism-related charges just in 2009 alone.
>
> > Eighty Muslim men sentenced in 2009? Wow!
>
> Yep. Expect more in 2010, if Hussein O won't be impeached.
Impeached for what, Inadequate toadying for Israel?
> >Next step the occupation of
> > Indonesia! Jakarta ought to be a piece of cake next to Bagdadh. Just
> > ask George Bush. But where are you going to get the troops, from among
> > the young men of Manhattan? Not willingly, Staten. They're used to the
> > corn fed blue collar kids from fly over country actually doing the
> > bleeding and dying. Their families discourage soldiering.
>
> Anyone familiar with Skinner Boxes knows that one method of keeping a
> dog from ever entering an area forbidden to him is to give him not a
> mild shock, not an extreme shock, not a strong shock, but to give such
> an overwhelming, devastating, horrific shock that the dog will endure
> a punishment ten times worse rather than enter the area again. This is
> the way how to treat Islam.
Hydorgen bombs? We don't have any more troops. You can't occupy these
Muslims guys without foot soldiers. Answer my question, will be get
them from New York's Jewish neighborhoods? We aren't getting them yet.
How are we going to change that? We'll need tens of thousands of
Jewish kids for your project.
We have all means to do this.
You can't occupy the Muslim world without millions and millions of
foot soldiers.
And we don't
> need too much troops. Ask our ancestors. They perfectly were aware -
> in war, the Muslims could be either victorious or dead. So to defeat
> the Muslims, they need to be fought to their deaths.
Okay, and we're going to be doing that throughout the Muslim world but
"we don't need too much troops"? We've also gotta "fight 'em to their
deaths"? All six hundred million of those Muslim guys. And we're going
to do it without casualties and and without even too much troops. Yes,
okay. When do we start? Indeed, where do we start. How 'bout Bali?
At the Battle of
> Tours in 732, the brave Franks being in minority surrounded the Arab-
> Muslim army and slaughtered it almost up to the last man and saved
> France and Europe from Islam. That was the right way. The Franks had
> determination and will to destroy their enemies and they were
> victorious. We have Obama, ROEs and we losing ground to Islam in
> spite of astounding military superiority. Unbelievable.
We can only field 200,000 troops and probably half of them are non-
combatants. So it's a hundred thousand grunts. We're going to defeat,
subdue and occupy the Muslim World with a hundred thousand troops?
What's that, four thousand for each Muslim Country? Where would we
station our four thousand men in Indonesia? It must have something
like four thousand populated islands. Do you think we could take and
hold Jakarta with that many? Sorry, but no, we could not.
Pavlov used dogs. Skinner used rats.
> > Obama Administration "is
>
> > > being seriously worked" on our safety .
Why twist what I said, i.e., that Obama is working on nuclear
disarmament world wide. That's been evident in the press in the last
month. He's made some progress too. Thank you Mr. Obama.
Let's cross our fingers and
> > > hope their bombs don't work! Sleep tight America! The Obama
> > > Administration is guarding us!
>
> > You worry about being safe over here. To accomplish that the only
> > thing you suggest is more aggressive but useless pugnacity over there. That's not
> > smart if you want to be safe over here..
>
> That's very smart. Ask the Franks and the Crusaders. Europe is free
> today only because they crashed Islam without giving up any country to
> Islam or bribing it with billions , like Obama and his dhimmi marxist
> pack sacrificing Israel today.
Yes, yes, if we don't conquer the Muslim world we will be abandoning
Israel and we will also become dhimmi Marxists. How did we come to
have this obligation to Israel? Think now. You owe it to us to
explain.
> >But getting a handle on Israeli aggression against their
> > Palestinian neighbors and striking a deal with the Iranians is.
>
> After Israel, the next “palestine” will be in EU and still later in
> California or New York. Islam knows no compromises. No sacrifices and
> no billions can bribe Islam untill all of the world will be Dar al-
> Islam. Striking a deal with Islam is a sure recipe for suicide. If you
> don't treasure your life, go and commit suicide alone. Don't hold us
> hostage of your liberal idiocy.
Pure Zionist manipulation. None of these specters are actual dangers.
We're not going to be stampeded by bullshit like this. We're going to
get control of our relationship with Israel or let her go her own way.
Hey, you told us to get out of her way. Tough Israel, all 7,000,000,
will conquer the Muslim World! We'll put that to the acid test when
Israel is given the choices I describe. In the meantime, join the
infantry, Staten. If you have family, send the men and boys to the
infantry. We'll find out how badly they want to conquer the Muslim
World after a month or two in the field in Uzbekistan. Don't expect
the rest of us to do it for you.
coaste...@yahoo.com
Especially when you should have been counting the dead.
Just
> because nearly every terrorist attack in the last 10 or 20 years has
> been perpetrated by Muslims, certainly that's no reason to assume most
> terrorists are Muslim! No, you saw right through that flawed logic.
> Hell, I'd have to wake up pretty early in the morning to put one over
> on you! Hey, if not for you, I'd probably be able to get this group to
> believe that most Sumo wrestlers are Japanese! But with you standing
> in my way, I won't even try, because you are just too clever for me!
>
> Imbecile....
This is for both you and Staten:
Post-1967 Palestinian & Israeli deaths from occupation & violence
As of late APRIL 2006, how many Israelis and Palestinians,
respectively, have died from Palestinian non-state violence and
Israeli state violence?
SHORT ANSWER: 1,133 Israelis and an estimated 5,144 Palestinians
(including 952 children) have been killed since September 2000. From
UN data, the post-1967 avoidable mortality (excess mortality) in the
Occupied Palestinian Territories totals 300,000 and the post-1967
under-5 infant mortality 183,000 (of which 90% has been avoidable) -
as compared to 2,178 post-1967 Israeli terrorism deaths (Israel
Ministry of Foreign Affairs figures).
CAREFULLY DOCUMENTED ANALYSIS:
1. Terrorism deaths in Israel1920-1999 total 2,580 (Israel Ministry of
Foreign Affairs, April 2006; see:
http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/MFAArchive/2000_2009/2000/1/Terrorism+deaths+in+Israel+-+1920-1999.htm
).
Quote: “From 1920 through 1999, a total of 2,580 residents of
Mandatory Palestine and, since 1948, the State of Israel fell victims
to hostile enemy action; in most cases, terrorist attacks. The last
terrorism-related death in 1999 was recorded on August 30, 1999. The
first death in 2000 was recorded on September 27, 2000, with the
outbreak of the current wave of Palestinian violence and
terror” (“Terrorism deaths in Israel: 1920-1999”, Israel Ministry of
Foreign Affairs, April 2006; see:
http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/MFAArchive/2000_2009/2000/1/Terrorism+deaths+in+Israel+-+1920-1999.htm
).
2. Terrorism deaths in Israel 1967-1999 total 1,065 (Israel Ministry
of Foreign Affairs, April 2006; see:
http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/MFAArchive/2000_2009/2000/1/Terrorism+deaths+in+Israel+-+1920-1999.htm
).
3. Terrorism deaths in Israel since 2000 total 1,113
Quote: “ 1,113 people have been killed by Palestinian violence and
terrorism since September 2000” (specifically 27 September 2000 – 17
April 2006; “Victims of Palestinian violence and terrorism since
September 2000”, Israel Ministry of Foreign Affairs, April 2006; see:
http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Terrorism-+Obstacle+to+Peace/Palestinian+terror+since+2000/Victims+of+Palestinian+Violence+and+Terrorism+sinc.htm
).
4. From the above information, all derived from the Israel Ministry of
Foreign Affairs, we can calculate that as of April 2006 there have
been 4,758 terrorism deaths in Israel since 1920 and 2,178 since the
occupation of the West Bank and Gaza (the Occupied Palestinian
Territories) and the Golan Heights (Syria) in 1967.
5. Palestinians killed from September 2000-February 2005 total 4,009
Quote: “Since the outbreak of the Palestinian uprising (Intifada) in
September 2000, through February 2005, 4,009 Palestinians have been
killed by the Israeli occupation forces” (“4,009 Palestinians killed
and more than 44,500 wounded by Israelis from September 2000 to
February 2005, PNIC [Palestinian National Information Centre] Report”,
Al-Jazeerah, March 2005; see:
http://www.aljazeerah.info/Human%20price%20of%20the%20occupation/human_price_of_the_israeli_occup.htm
)
6. Palestinians killed by Israeli occupation forces from September
2000 total 5,144
From the above information, we can that estimate that, as of April
2006, a further 1,135 Palestinians have been killed and 12,594 wounded
since February 2005 and that a total of 5,144 Palestinians have been
killed (including an estimated 952 children) and 57,100 have been
wounded since September 2000
7. Post-1967 avoidable mortality and under-5 infant mortality in the
Occupied Palestinian Territories total 0.3 and 0.2 million,
respectively
Avoidable mortality (technically, excess mortality) is the difference
between the actual deaths in a country and the deaths expected for a
peaceful, decently-run country with the same demographics (see:
http://globalavoidablemortality.blogspot.com/ ). Post-1967 avoidable
mortality (excess mortality) in the Occupied Palestinian Territories
totals 300,000 and the post-1967 under-5 infant mortality 183,000 (of
which about 90% was avoidable) (estimated from UN Population Division
data; see: http://esa.un.org/unpp/ ). The “annual under-5 infant
mortality” (expressed as a percentage of the under-5 infant
population) is 0.51% (Occupied Palestinian Territories) as compared to
0.12% (Israel) (2003 figures; see: http://esa.un.org/unpp/ and the
latest UNICEF reports: http://www.unicef.org/infobycountry/index.html
).
Professor Peter Singer, formerly at Monash University Melbourne, and
now Professor of Bioethics at Princeton University in the US, has been
widely acclaimed as the most influential living philosopher (see:
http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/323/7318/940 ) and has
generated enormous controversy over his advocacy of “active”,
painless, non-voluntary euthanasia for severely disabled infants.
However his comments over “passive euthanasia” are relevant to
“passive genocide” by Occupiers such as the Israelis in the Occupied
Palestinian Territories and the US-led Coalition in Occupied Iraq and
Afghanistan: “Doctors who deliberately leave a baby to die when they
have the awareness, the ability, and the opportunity to save the
baby’s life, are just as morally responsible for the death as they
would be if they had brought it about by a deliberate positive
action” (H. Kuhse & P. Singer, Should the Baby Live? The Problem of
Handicapped Infants, Oxford University Press, Oxford, 1985, pp84-85).
Professor Peter Singer has further stated the following moral
generality “We are responsible not only for what we do but also for
what we could have prevented … We could consider the consequences of
what we do and what we decide not to do” (P. Singer, Writings on an
Ethical Life, Ecco Press, New York, 2000, ppxv-xvi; see:
http://www.abc.net.au/rn/science/ockham/stories/s1445960.htm ).
The 1949 Geneva Conventions relative to the Protection of Civilian
Persons in Time of War (see: (http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/
92.htm )
are explicit in demanding that the Occupier does everything “to the
fullest extent of the means available to it” to preserve the health
and life of its conquered subjects:
“Article 55. To the fullest extent of the means available to it, the
Occupying Power has the duty of ensuring the food and medical supplies
of the population; it should, in particular, bring in the necessary
foodstuffs, medical stores and other articles if the resources of the
occupied territory are inadequate …
Article 56. To the fullest extent of the means available to it, the
Occupying Power has the duty of ensuring and maintaining , with the
cooperation of the national and local authorities, the medical and
hospital establishments and services, public health and hygiene in the
occupied territory, with particular reference to the adoption and
application of the prophylactic and preventive measures necessary to
combat the spread of contagious diseases and epidemics. Medical
personnel of all categories shall be allowed to carry out their duties
…”
Whether a child dies violently (from bombs or bullets) or dies non-
violently (from deprivation or malnourishmnet-exacerbated disease),
the end result is the same and the culpability the same. The Ruler is
responsible for the Ruled, the Occupier is responsible for the
Occupied subjects.
Israel - a prosperous, liberal democracy with a population extremely
well aware from the Jewish Holocaust of the horrendous consequences of
racism and human rights abuse - has FAILED to meet its obligations
under the 1949 Geneva Conventions (see: (http://www.unhchr.ch/html/
menu3/b/92.htm ) and has also FAILED near-comprehensively in relation
to the 1989 Convention on the Rights of the Child (see:
http://www.ohchr.org/english/law/pdf/crc.pdf ), most notably and
fundamentally with respect to Article #6: “1. States Parties recognize
that every child has the inherent right to life. 2. States Parties
shall ensure to the maximum extent possible the survival and
development of the child.”
This awful situation does NOT have to continue. All sensible, humane
Jews and Arabs want peace. Thus IMMEDIATE implementation of an Interim
Peace Plan can effect Peace with Justice NOW . Such an Interim Peace
Plan for IMMEDIATE implementation could involve the following: 2
states; 1967 borders; joint provision of airport-style total security
throughout the Holy Land; interim defence provision by Israel alone
(Israel would probably accept nothing less); bigotry, racism and
incitement made illegal; reconciliation; all human rights guaranteed
for all; and secure access for ALL to ALL of the Holy Land.
NEMO
iconoclast, we're to believe you give a tinkers damn about how many
muzzie/wogs the Israeli's have sent to hell, nobody gives a damn about
the Palestinians including their brother mizzie/wog/ragheads - you use
the muzzie wogs to put it to the Jews, plain & simple!
......................all your so called intellectual musings are just
so much "farts", come out & say you hate the Jews because you're a
loser, you didn't answer before & I don't expect it now.
.............................you're a loser & you blame the Jews, but
you're still a loser!
Yup!
coaste...@yahoo.com
> On May 7, 1:50 am, "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> *People inclined to terroristic jihadism comprise some 1% of Muslims
> *world-wide. Will you condemn all Germans for the crimes of the SS or
> *the Gestapo? Yes, oh well, I expected that.
>
> "1% of Muslims world-wide", you say?
That's the number I saw.
The number certainly is bigger
> according to surveys released in Indonesia alone where one in 10
> Indonesian Muslims support violent jihad. But let's take your
> apologist, dhimmi number and do quick math:
>
> 1,5 billion Muslims.
The most commonly seen number is 1.3 bn.
1% for jihad . It comes up with 15,000,000
No, 13,000,000, and they are people who don't object to Jihad, not
practitioners which is of necessity a much smaller number.
Additionally, they live on the other side of the world and are
impoverished, uneducated people for the most part. Only educated
intellectuals get to the US from the Muslim World. It's impossible for
working or peasant class people to get here much less to get in. The
class which does is quite tiny and they are investigated individually
with care. Most of them come as students. Accordingly, you terrorist
estimate is fantastically inflated.
> butchers , live ticking bombs ready to blow up millions of infidels
> in their infidel countries.
You're a joke, Staten. There have been a couple of Rube Goldberg
attempts in recent years but nothing much else here in the US. Terror
by Muslims is manageable. It is being managed. It's too bad that we
have pay for that in various ways including the loss of personal
liberties and surveillance but the primary cause of it is our support
of Zionism. And the primary cause of THAT is the corruption of our
Congress by American Zionists.
This figure is still much bigger than the
> number of Germans
13 is larger than @160?
when Hitler and his pagan hordes were marching
> across Europe.
Hitler's hordes were mostly peasant conscripts and thus Lutheran and
Catholic, not pagan.
Add up to this number millions of those Muslims who
> sympathizing with jihad, morally and financially support their ready-
> to-explode-millions-of-infidels brethren and you get a whole picture.
No, you picture is frantic hot air. What we get is what we've got. The
vast bulk of terror style attacks on Americans are against expats and
military. They don't take place in the US. We can manage anything here
short of smuggled nukes. And we're working on that problem thanks to
Barak Obama.
> It's very "tiny minority", as you jihad apologists love to say.
You are first and foremost an apologist for Israel. As to Jihad, I'm a
follower of Michael Scheuer. See "Through Our Enemies' Eyes." We don't
have a dog in most of those fights over there. We need to go back to
an offshore policy. We need to leash Israel or as you say, set her
free---on our terms.
Why do
> we should waste our time splitting hairs?
Why do we waste our time and money fighting wars which aren't ours?
Israel's wars ARE NOT OURS. Wars which were it not for our Israel
problem we could watch carefully from the sidelines but not get
involved in ARE NOT OURS. Every Arab regime with oil sells oil. We
don't need to occupy the oil patch to buy oil. And the idea of
occupying the entire Muslim World so as not to have to "pressure" poor
Israel to settle with the Palestinians is the most profoundly stupid
concept aired here in years. Join the infantry, Staten. I know it's
not your family tradition but perhaps the family tradition is a bit
effete. It's an amazingly efficient school of reality. No whining
permitted. You stand up or you end up down, etc. Cry babies have short
tenures.
Let me put it even more bluntly. We don't owe Israel any war against
any Muslim country much less the entire Muslim World. Were you not a
whiner about Israel you would not even be mentioning it. We can
protect Israel and protect ourselves at the same time. BUT SHE IS THE
PROBLEM. We've just got to grab her by the collar and shake the hell
out of her until she decides it isn't worth trying to take advantage
of us any more. She'll still be safe but she'll be out of our face for
good. She'll become a normal country which doesn't make ABNORMAL
demands on us.
coaste...@yahoo.com
> On May 7, 1:50 am, "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> > On May 6, 9:42 pm, "Count 1" <omnipitus2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > If Israel never existed Salafists would still hate you, and they
> > would still be craving the bomb to kill more infidels.
This is the Hasbara argument. It's purpose is to convince Americans
the Israel is fighting OUR war against Islam. That's false. Israel is
not fighting our war. We have no interest in the Golan and the West
Bank. Less than none in fact.
>
> *Foolish. The movement is new, three or four decades for the most
> part.
> *It remains small but spectacular.
>
> New movement?
Salafism, yes. And it can wither away just as it arose.
Let's see how "new" it is and why Muslims keep murdering
> infidels during "three or four last decades". You surely trying to
> convince us that Muslims are very "upset" by the creation of the state
> of Israel.
You mentioned Salafism with a whiff of nasty sarcasm. If you do such a
thing you should acquaint yourself about it first. And yes, the
imposition of Israel in Palestine has offended a lot of Muslims. They
don't think that foreign based, i.e., colonial, military power ought
to be used to take Palestine away from its native inhabitants, from
their Muslim brothers. I don't either. It was a mistake which has
dogged us for over forty years. Zionists never developed a talent for
predicting the outcome of its oppressive theory.
>
> OK, let's go to evidences why Israel "upset" so much pious Muslims
> who lived in peace and tranquility with infidels before this
> "barbaric" state was created by the "wicked" Zionists in 1948:
>
> Before 18 century millions and millions of infidels were murdered by
> advancing Islam from Sauidi deserts to India where jihad killed 80
> million Hindus, not because of Israel
So, we should conquer the muslim world? Do you see a connection I'm
missing?
>
> From 1843 to 1846 10,000 Assyrian Christians including women and
> children were massacred by the Muslims, not because of Israel
Really? Not because of Israel?
>
> From 1894 to 1896 Muslims killed 1,5 millions Armenian
> Christians, not because of Israel.
Do you have your dates right?
A summary:
P. 1: There have over the centuries been various atrocities and other
acts of violence by Muslims in which Israel was not a factor;
P. 2: There has since the 1890s been a record of Muslim Resistance and
violence in which Israel was the precipitating factor.
THEREFORE, Israel is never responsible for Muslim Resistance and
violence, AND she gets the West Bank.
The Revd
When are you going to fess up and admit you're a jewboi, B'rian B'ris,
eh?
Count 1
On May 9, 12:23 am, staten <state...@lycos.com> wrote:
> On May 7, 1:50 am, "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> > On May 6, 9:42 pm, "Count 1" <omnipitus2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > If Israel never existed Salafists would still hate you, and they
> > would still be craving the bomb to kill more infidels.
This is the Hasbara argument. It's purpose is to convince Americans
the Israel is fighting OUR war against Islam. That's false. Israel is
not fighting our war. We have no interest in the Golan and the West
Bank. Less than none in fact.
***
Nope. This is the fact, Salafism - which is much older than you know -
creates Islam as the supreme ideology to be imposed no matter what the
means. Israel isn't fighting anyone's war against Islam, as there is no war
against Islam. Right now Israel isn't fighting any war at all, but will be
if Hamas ever gets enough weapons and Hezbollah get's antsy and starts
another war.
You have interests in the Golan and West Bank to the extent your ally Israel
does - especially the Golan which is of obvious strategic importance to
Israel. Instead of this constant drum beating about how Israel is the cause
of Islamic terrorism directed against the US, a lie you tell as you know it
isn't the truth, you should spend some time learning about the ideology of
those who want to see you dead, or converted (actually the term they use is
'revert') to their religion.
Even the most recent failed attack had nothing to do with Israel - Shazhad
was pissed about predator drone attacks killing his Pakistan Taliban
buddies. He wasn't in it for the Palestinians.
staten
On May 9, 3:30 am, "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> On May 8, 6:30 pm, staten <state...@lycos.com> wrote:
>
>
> > Any means are good fighting Islamic plague including nukes if jihadist
> > bastards lay their hands on it.
>
> But they have NOT yet laid their hands on it.
Yes, they are , idiot. Iran already has means to create nukes and
deliver them to Europe and to the US. Pakistan has nukes and has a
corrupt , unstable government existing only thanks to our military
back up and mega billion infusions to this Islamic shit-hole. The
situation there can change at any minute and we don't control this
sewer Islamic pit . We even cannot get access to Waziristan where
Osama and his jihadi cutthroats is hiding. And don't forget
potential smuggling nukes , nuke components or know-hows from Norks,
Pakistan( M.Qhan and his personal role in nuclear weapon
proliferation), Russia . After collapse of the Soviets and the
following total chaos and super corruption in Russian military, no
one can say for sure there what might have been stolen from the
Soviet nuclear arsenals. Russia itself cannot control its own
military. How do you know that Islamists don't already have
capability to blow up dirty nuke suitcases in our cities? How do you
know that they have not delivered deadly chemicals somewhere in
Mexican jungles and just wait for opportunity to blow up the devilish
concoction in NYC or Chicago? Do you believe in gentleman's agreement
with mullahs and sheiks , idiot?
>I've read your entire post before responding. It's clear to me
> that you want a general American war against "Islam" including the use
> of nuclear weapons.
Because Islam already at war with us, buffoon!
>I ask you why America should fight this war?
Because Islam fighting this war against us and against the entire
world , idiot!
>Why is it to be "our" war?
Because we want to live under American Constitution , not under
sharia.
>If it isn't our war, I ask you on whose behalf
> she should fight it? And why?
It isn't just our war. Ask Russians. Ask Indians. Ask Euros. Ask
Africans. Ask all those people on this planet who are being burned,
tortured, beheaded , blown to bits by Islam on the daily basis. Ask
those black Africans who live in Islamic slavery. Ask about Islamic
genocide of Armenians, Indians. We need to fight because Islam is at
war with the whole world. Islam is all about Jihad, killing the
infidel, and bringing Islam to the whole world. That's why we need to
fight, you fucking , self-righteous moron. Otherwise another
“palestine” soon will be raging on our streets. It is already
here ,so far in its cold version because luckily jihadi bombs fail to
explode but their plots continue to be busted almost an every other
month. ,
>
> You are obviously Jewish and your internal answer is "for Israel".
Was MARCO POLO “Jewish” who said:
“The law which their prophet Mohamed has given to muslims is that any
harm done to any one who does not accept their law and any
appropriation of his goods, is no sin at all.” ?
Was JOHN QUINCY ADAMS “Jewish” who said:
”The essence of mohammed’s doctrine was violence and lust: to exalt
the brutal over the spiritual part of human nature.” ?
Was Sir Winston Churchill “Jewish” who called Adolf Hitler’s ‘Mein
Kampf’ “the new Quran of faith and war, turgid, verbose, shapeless,
but pregnant with its message”.
Was Oriana Felaci “Jewish” who said : "Europe is no longer Europe,
it is 'Eurabia,' a colony of Islam, where the Islamic invasion does
not proceed only in a physical sense, but also in a mental and
cultural sense. Servility to the invaders has poisoned democracy, with
obvious consequences for the freedom of thought, and for the concept
itself of liberty."?
Is Geert Wilders “Jewish” who says that Islam is destroying Europe and
the Western civilization?
Is Dannish psychiatrist Nicolai Sennels “Jewish” who said: “All of
Europe is currently struggling to integrate Muslims but this endeavor
seems to be impossible.”?
Is Allen West (a great American , war hero, running for Congress)
“Jewish” when he commented on Islam and jihad :
“You want to dig up Charles Martel and ask him why him why he was
fighting the Muslim army at the Battle of Tours in 732? You want to
ask the Venetian fleet at Lepanto why they were fighting a Muslim
fleet in 1571? You want to ask…the Germanic and Austrian knights why
they were fighting at the gates of Vienna in 1683? You want to ask
people what happened at Constantinople and why today it is called
Istanbul because they lost that fight in 1453? You need to get into
the Koran…and understand their precepts. This is not a perversion.
They are doing exactly what this book says.”
Are SIOA , SIOE, EDL, SIOD activists against Islamization of America
and Europe are full of Jews who speak up against Muslim barbaric
culture of ignorance, poverty, misogyny, and violence that they are
attempting to inflict this culture on a largely Enlightened West?
NO! They are not “Jewish”! You insult all people in the world who are
fed up with Islam by presenting that their struggle against this world
cancer is only in the interest of Jews.
I can tell you more. When the EDL tried to organize mass protests in
London against advancing Islamic supremacism destroying English
culture and in support of Israel , no one of the London's Jews showed
up to participate. But some Jewish organizations like JC.com, even
were running a piece urging Jews not to support the SIOE and EDL.
These Jewish idiots obviously badly miss the tens of thousands of
Muslims calling for their death across the UK and Europe back in
January.
Likewise. Most of 75-80% of American Jews voting for libs and Obama
couldn't give a fuck about Islam or Israel. 50% of American Jewish
students expressed their views that the world would be much better
without Israel. These liberal cretins if ever ask again, "how did it
happen?," needs a swift kick in the head. Go over to the Islamist and
the left wing sites and read carefully -- they are preparing the new
ovens for you, idiots.
That's why , I am saying to you again, paranoid , illogical idiot, you
have no clue what you are bubbling about. Pull your your head from
your ass and look around yourself , debil, there is nothing “Jewish”
if people stand up against Islam . Islam is enemy of all freedom
loving people. If you still cannot get it, then if you are not
totally corrupt, you are incomprehensibly stupid.
> Accordingly I have less difficulty understanding your fanaticism and
> the tremendous disjunct between your views and reality at every level.
This is not “fanaticism”. What I told you are hard facts based on
reality that , you fucking sleazball , refuse to accept preferring
to hide truth behind your stupid fables about Jews. You are full of
shit. Good advice – read on your subject before writing silly trash.
Don't expect that all people are as screwed up as you are.
staten
wrote:
> On May 8, 6:30 pm, staten <state...@lycos.com> wrote:
> > I wonder how long it takes for Bsijis to knock out all your front
> > teeth if you would have said the same thing in front of the
> > Ahmenidijad palace.
>
> About as long as it takes Israels to murder hundreds of Palestinian
> women and children from helos and F-16s in Gaza. Not long.
Whose fault is that your beloved “Palestinians” use their women and
children as sand bags for their rocket launchers?
> > I believe - not a single American or an Euro should die because of
> > Islam. Even if it takes to occupy the entire Islamic world.
>
> These are the two most demented sentences I''ve read here ever. You
> want not a single American to die but you advise the conquest and
> occupation of the entire Muslim World. Haha, though you don't hint at
> an idea as to what is to be done with it then.
Fighting Islam starts with cleaning our own home. First of all we
need to kick out of office all corrupt the willfully blind,
delusional apologetic dhimmis pushing us closer to Sharia – corrupt
policy embraced by our current political and military leadership:
Col. West reminds us:
“Until you get principled leadership in the United States of America
that is willing to say that, we will continue to chase our tail,
because we will never clearly define who this enemy is, and then
understand their goals and objectives—which (are) on any jihadist
website—and then come up with the right (and) proper objectives to not
only secure our Republic but secure Western civilization.”
> Fuck
>
> > your PC.
>
> Me, politically correct? You've lost your grip. I'm the Iconoclast.
No. You are shit-lust. Or just full of shit.
>I am in constant search for speech taboos to break.
Except Islamic one. You are a disgusting , hypocritical lackey of
jihad.
> If we have had Truman in the White House today , Churchill
>
> > in Europe and Patton leading our troops, the devilish creed of Islam
> > would have been reversed and rolled back to Mecca and buried deep
> > into sands where it came from long time ago.
>
> Over the duration we had 16,000,000 men under arms in WWII. We
> couldn't conquer and hold the entire Muslim World if we had all of
> them available today.
That's defeatist propaganda on behalf of Islam. In WWII, under
leadership of Gen. Patton you would have been shot as a traitor.
>And we have great difficulty fielding 200,000 in
> Asia now. Have you been in the military?
Have you? According to your pro-jihadi posts your place is in Gitmo.
Have you mistaken your prison term with honorable service in our
military?
>Few Jews have that experience today.
Not aware of military Jews shooting their fellows in army and stealing
classified information for jihad.
>.Most anyone who has is going to conclude you're simply nuts. We
> ran out of gas trying to occupy Iraq alone with our volunteer army.
Defeatist lies and jihad propaganda. We crushed Saddam's regime just
for two weeks. Our great mistake was that idiot Bush started “winning
Muslim's hearts and minds” instead of showing who is the boss in the
town.
> Marshall, the greatest soldier of Truman's era, almost convinced him
> not to recognize Israel in 1948 precisely because it could get the
> country into a bottomless pit such as you envisage. The entire
> professional staff at State agreed with him. I agree to this day with
> his advice. At the time Israel was already six months into the ethnic
> cleansing of Palestine. It wasn't too difficult to see what the future
> held for her "ally". But Truman was running for another term........
What the fuck WWII , Truman , Patton, and Marshall's plan has in
common with recognizing Israel when we talk about our military
strategy in defeating our enemies, you demented cretin?
> You're obviously far more concerned with Israel than with the United
> States.
Geert Wilders :
“Now, I would like to say a few things about Israel. Because, very
soon, we will get together in its capitol. The best way for a
politician in Europe to loose votes is to say something positive about
Israel. The public has wholeheartedly accepted the Palestinian
narrative, and sees Israel as the aggressor. I, however, will continue
to speak up for Israel. I see defending Israel as a matter of
principle. I have lived in this country and visited it dozens of
times. I support Israel. First, because it is the Jewish homeland
after two thousand years of exile up to and including Auschwitz,
second because it is a democracy, and third because Israel is our
first line of defense.
Samuel Huntington writes it so aptly: “Islam has bloody borders”.
Israel is located precisely on that border. This tiny country is
situated on the fault line of jihad, frustrating Islam’s territorial
advance. Israel is facing the front lines of jihad, like Kashmir,
Kosovo, the Philippines, Southern Thailand, Darfur in Sudan, Lebanon,
and Aceh in Indonesia. Israel is simply in the way. The same way West-
Berlin was during the Cold War.
The war against Israel is not a war against Israel. It is a war
against the West. It is jihad. Israel is simply receiving the blows
that are meant for all of us. If there would have been no Israel,
Islamic imperialism would have found other venues to release its
energy and its desire for conquest. Thanks to Israeli parents who send
their children to the army and lay awake at night, parents in Europe
and America can sleep well and dream, unaware of the dangers looming.
Many in Europe argue in favor of abandoning Israel in order to address
the grievances of our Muslim minorities. But if Israel were, God
forbid, to go down, it would not bring any solace to the West. It
would not mean our Muslim minorities would all of a sudden change
their behavior, and accept our values. On the contrary, the end of
Israel would give enormous encouragement to the forces of Islam. They
would, and rightly so, see the demise of Israel as proof that the West
is weak, and doomed. The end of Israel would not mean the end of our
problems with Islam, but only the beginning. It would mean the start
of the final battle for world domination. If they can get Israel, they
can get everything. Therefore, it is not that the West has a stake in
Israel. It is Israel. “
I am not a Jew I am second to Geert - this is not a war against
Israel . It is a war against the West. He is a great guy! A new
Churchill who is not afraid to say inconvenient truth to to the
corrupt European elite selling Europe to Islam.
>That's common among Jewish Zionists.
I have nothing against Zionists in Israel who are shocked by the
Obama's sellout of Israel to Islam. This betrayal of our staunchest
ally during war time is a high treason against our Republic as well.
>You want the US to
> conquer all of the Muslim World for Israel.
Israel has nothing to do with Muslims terrorizing Europe, America ,
Asia Africa, you demented moron.
Guess what? You can't have
> that. And what's more Israel can't have the West Bank. And it can't
> terrorize the region with nukes.
Check with Ahmedjihad. . It was he who said that Israel will be erased
from the face of world's map. Who is terrorizing who , you freaking
asshole?
>You are just going to have to get
> used to it. You're going to have to get used to the American
> government and Congress saying "no" because the Israel Lobby is going
> to register as an agent for a foreign country and get the hell out of
> corrupting our Congress on Israel issues.
“Israel Lobby” is pale in comparison with evil Saudi Lobby buying our
corrupt politicians, city mayors and our university. Saudi petro
money has infiltrated the media, the universities, the Hollywood
the book publishing industry, with all the predictable consequences.
The Saudis have billions in seed money to pour into American and
European universities... seed money to cultivate friendly "useful
idiots" , like yourself, who will bow and scrape and genuflect for
their Muslim masters. So depressingly familiar today in the West.....
>That chance for Israel is coming too. She's going to get choices from
>the United States and one of those choices will be that if she want's
t>o keep the West Bank we'll be ending our support. If she wants to
>attack Iran we'll be out of there. If she rejects the nuclear free
>zone we'll be out of there. We're not in Israel's way. In fact Israel
>can capture and subdue the Muslim world on her own if she likes.
So, we , having the most formidable military machine in the world,
cannot subdue the Muslim world but tiny Israel can “if she likes”.
Excellent logic! It's hard not to spit on your demented rant. You
obviously having some brain eating disease . You are obsessed with
Jews and Israel. This sickness is frightening.
staten
wrote:
> On May 8, 6:30 pm, staten <state...@lycos.com> wrote:
> > The benefit here is only one for everybody who don't want to live
> > lives of pathetic dhimmis in their own countries – Islam got to be
> > stopped and reversed by any means available.
>
> You're the most amazing alarmist on a political subject I ever
> encountered. If you're young enough I suggest you try a stint in the
> military. You'll mature very rapidly.
You are not in position to give me advices about military , traitor.
For your defeatist pro-jihad propaganda you would have faced a firing
squad during Gen. Patton time.
> > We live in free countries in the West and we have all rights to say
> > anything we want about any religion.
>
> Claro. Except that's not the point.
Yes, it is the point. It's called freedom of speech. If you hate it,
move your sorry ass to jihadistan and live there among camels and
Muslim savages. .
>Why should we infuriate our enemy more by insulting their God and His Prophet?
You see, idiot, there is no problems with displaying crucifixes in
a glass of urine. Some leftist loons call it “art”. No one is
burning cars , destroys embassies and killing people when Judaism and
Torah are trashed and maligned by the most vilest, hateful
fantasy a human mind can create. I never herd about Buddhists
rampaging through the streets spewing death threats and murdering
Muslims when Taliban blew up giant Buddha's statues in Afghanistan.
And yet you advocate us a total and a complete control and self-
censure with regards to Islam. What kind of freedom is that? Why are
you so ready to force us to surrender to sharia , you disgusting,
pathetic dhimmi ? Why won't you crawl under a rock and die of
embarrassment when you advocate us to throw out our freedom of
speech but to respect barbaric sharia?
>What do we gain by that?
What do we gain by exercising our freedom of speech? You still don't
know , do you?
> Matters of War and Peace are not adolescent name calling exercises.
If you say nothing , they anyway come and cut your throat. It is in
the Koran. Don't expect them to change it.
> They are governed by real world calculations of gain and loss.
Who the fuck cares by what they are governed. We got to be governed by
our constitution not by Sharia you want to impose on us.
>What's to be gained by doing this stupid thing?
So, saying truth about Islam is “stupid thing “ for you. Little
wonder that you sold your guts and your soul to jihad. You really
worth of your 30 pieces of solver.
>Don't avoid this now. Maybe you are just overwrought, but we don't put such people in positions of
> responsibility.
Of course you don't put if our President and his high office is
working on behalf of Islam. Hussein and his cronies have leaked the
highly classified CIA interrogation techniques that give our enemies
inside intel into how we conduct interrogations. He released photos
of soldiers doing their job in order to create an another Abu Ghraib
hysteria . He holds American self interests in contempt but defers to
the goals of the global jihad and demands we respect them. He is
bowing to wahhabi kings while showing contempt for our allies and
America. But for you , the idiot, such a despicable , treasonous
behavior looks not so outrageous as releasing a bunch of innocent ,
stupid cartoons about Mohammed. You are sick. Very sick.
[sick drivel and obsession with Jews and Israel flushed]
>
> > That's exactly right- most terrorists are Muslims. 3,314 killed in 67
> > terror attacks Americans
>
> Yes, and three thousand of them in one event. And most of the other
> 314 were killed overseas.
No. They all were murdered by Muslims on American soil.
>You're forgetting our military and civilian
> casualties in the wars we've been waging to protect the strategic
> position of Israel as a colonial state in the Muslim World.
We are protecting our interests, traitor. Islam already raging in
Europe and America. Open your eyes and pull out your head out of your
ass and may be you will see it.
>You have let yourself become terrorized, it's a sort of sympathetic terror you
> feel when thinking of Israel.. As I say, join the military. Insist on
> the enlisted ranks in the infantry. When this fantasy of yours comes
> true we will be able to imagine you slogging in the foothills of the
> Himalayas in search of "Muslims". Be sure you INSIST on the infantry.
You are the last person to speak about our Military, jihadi
cocksucker. You are a traitor. You a saboteur and a cheerleader for
jihad. You should be put on trial for your sedition and defeatist
propaganda on behalf of our enemies. In 1942 the Supreme Court upheld
the military detention, trial, and execution of American citizens
saboteurs and Nazi operatives. Quislings and defeatists like
yourself surely qualify being in this category during war time. You
should be thrown to Gitmo or shot like Herbert Hans Haupt .
> You're a tough Zionist. Don't shirk your duty!
If I am a “Zionist” then so are Marco Polo, John Quincy Adams,
Churchill , Geert Wilders, Allen West and many other thousands
prominent and ordinary people around the world who stand up against
Islam. But since this is impossible but you keep insisting that
being against Islam is tantamount of being “Jewish” , the conclusion
is that you suffer from an acute and very special kind of mental
illness.
> and , 15,257 deadly terror attacks in the
>
> > world since 9/1 have been perpetrated not by Russians , Jews or
> > Hindus but by Muslims and Muslims only.
>
> You are disrespecting our military dead and wounded. You don't even
> mention them. But perhaps that's for political purposes, eh?
So, because Muslims have committed 15,257 deadly terror attacks
across the world and that's why “I am disrespecting our military dead
and wounded “. Nice coherent logic. You are thick. Very thick indeed.
> > Again, give Israel a freedom of action and she will take care of them
> > all! Right now our soldiers die not for Israel , but for Islam
> > introducing them to “democracy” they hate. This is wrong. Dead
> > wrong.
>
> That's pretty twisted logic. We've thus killed 1,300,000 Iraqis by
> fighting for them?
Depends where you take numbers from. Yours surely are borrowed from
Jihadistan agitprop.
>By the way, I'm not for regime change and nation
> building in the region.
Sure. Why to bother. Let they live for another 1400 years under
sharia.
>I'm for an offshore policy like we had before
> we got entangled with the Israeli colonial endeavor in Palestine. It
> worked fine.
It never worked “fine” we had problems with Islam from day one after
our Republic was established. I and other posters repeatedly have
shown you that on historical evidences but ,you fool, still keep
parroting your stupid fable about “palestinians” that jump to
existence just in 1970s
>
> > The present Administration is surrendering to Islam and helps
> > promoting sharia in the world. It's double suicidal stupidity.
>
> Why should you, the tough conservative, give a damn about sharia in
> Islamic countries.
Because sharia is already in Western countries and I and other people
simply don't want it to become stronger and to overthrow our
democratically elected government, unlike you.
>That's not our business.
It wouldn't if Islam would remain in Jihadistan , but not spreading
like cancer across the glob.
>you're waving a bloody
> shirt to keep us aimed at Israel's enemies.
There is no “Israeli enemies” . Islam is enemy of all infidels, moron
>In fact that's the whole shtick here: keep the dim witted American public hostile to the Muslim
> World and we'll have time to complete our Greater Israel plan while
> nobody's looking.
Very good. In addition of being a treasonous , back-stabbing agent of
jihad you also have a deep contempt to Americans calling them “dim
witted American public”. In your sick imagination everyone in America
who doesn't want to live under sharia is a “fool” and “dim-witted”.
Why do you hate Americans so much, scummy? Have you converted to
Islam? Or what?
>
> > So, wasting multi millions on Hamas cutthroats and bribing Islam
> > worldwide with billions is not a wasting to you?
>
> We've been bribing Israel for forty years. The bribing of Egypt was
> concocted by Henry Kissenger on the Israel model a long time ago. It
> worked. That flank has been pretty quiet for Israel.
Do you know how much we wasted on Islam? Islam has received 13
trillions from the West since 1973. But you ,scummy fraud, feel
absolutely fine about this .
>As to Hamas, you simply betray that your interests are Israeli, not American.
So, to you American interests only then are valid when America bribes
nazis of our age ? I was right . You are very sick..
>America wants a settlement over there.
What settlements for America are bubbling about?
>Hamas is the duly elected government in Gaza.
So, if tomorrow they will elect Taliban or Al-Qaeda do we also need to
bribe them with billions?
>The Palestinians have to have governments if we're ever to extricate OURSELVES from this Israeli >mess which goes back to 1947.
Fakestinians were created in 1970s. Why do you refer to 1947?
>To permit Israel to atomize the Palestinian people may be seemingly in
> Israel's interest but it surely is not in ours.
No , idiot, wrong again. If we allow Fakestinians to destroy Israel ,
we will be next. It is not in our interests.
>
> What we got in return except more hatred, more terror plots , more Malik Hasans, more
> > Times Square attempted bombings and more jihadis with bombs tied to
> > their balls?
>
> What do you expect, Staten. The brutal, grasping occupation has been
> going on since 1967 in the West Bank alone. You people started the war
> against the Palestinian people in 1947.
“Palestinian people “ is a fiction. Five hostile Arab regimes started
war against Israel in 1947 that was legitimately created and approved
by the UN vote of 33 to 13. Read history for heaven's sake , you
scummy full of Arab propagandist shit, seditious scumbag!
>It has never stopped. They're
> not giving up.
Sure not, when the last time have you seen Islam giving up something
from its grips unless it's totally crushed ?
>They are no more terrorist than were you in the 1920s
> and 30s. By your logic we should have occupied and put down the Jewish
> terrorists of Palestine. You look pretty hypocritical here.
Why someone got to attack a police officer instead of a criminal. You
are confused. Very confused.
staten
wrote:
> On May 8, 6:30 pm, staten <state...@lycos.com> wrote:
> > >You must
> > > be confusing the current administration with its predecessor and
> > > Haliburton, etc. He has gotten our troops out of combat in Iraq.
>
> > No. They are still die for Islam there.
>
> They die by the hand of our enemies but not for them. That's twisted
> logic. We've killed far too many of THEM to be dying for them.
Another treasonous agitprop on behalf of jihad – we are there just
to kill them indiscriminately . Is there a limit of your debased
sucking to Islam and jihad, bastard?
> > >The Afghanistan adventure is a calculated gamble designed to smash up the
> > > Taliban on behalf of Afghanistan and Pakistan.
>
> > By court-marshaling our troops for using “excessive force” against
> > our enemies?
>
> Women and children are not our enemies.
Then keep them at home don't use them as sand bags and human shields.
Even Nazis had decency to keep these rules. They defended their women
and kids , not placed them in front of Allie's bullets and tanks.
> By applying draconian ROE as a result of which our
>
> > troops die because our leaders are moral cowards?
>
> Strong words from a man who I suspect has not served.
>Have you any idea what the next draft statute is going to look like? There will be
> no marital, college or professional exemptions. Everyone will have to
> go. No exemptions for Harvard and Yale.
How about you , traitor? What side do you pick the next draft?
Though, you don't need to answer. According to your posts it's
crystal clear that you will be on the side of jihad. Have you
prepared your
suicide belt?
> By forcing our
>
> > troops to respect our enemies and their religion not even allowing
> > them to enter mosques which have become terrorist safe houses, bomb
> > factories and weapons caches? That's what you call “smashing up
> > Taliban”? The murderous , head-chopping jihadis are laughing their
> > asses out seeing how today's Western troops led by the liberal idiots
> > are scared of their own might and fight with their one eye chained to
> > the Rules Of Engagement booklet leaving behind dead bodies of their
> > fellows. If we have fought Nazi Germany and Japan with the same
> > methods we fight Islam today, WWII still would have been roaring in
> > Europe and in the Pacific.
>
> Join the military. You're a wannabe war criminal. You'll come to
> understand that it's not like reading comic books. The ROE reflect
> what we are or at least want to be as a people.
Not “we”, but you fucking traitor support the most corrupt idea that
lives of our enemies are more precious that lives of our troops. As I
had said, during WWII you would have been shot on the spot should you
have expressed such a treasonous absurdity.
>They also display an
> attempt to honor international law.
Have your fucking “international law” honored the Blackwater
contractors whose bodies burned
beyond recognition)were displayed hanging on the bridge in Fallujah?
Or the
bodies of PFC Kristian Menchaca and PFC Thomas Lowell Tucker - whose
tortured and butchered bodies were also booby-trapped? How about
your “international law” when our guys were dragged thought the
streets of
Mogadishu , hung in the streets after being beheaded, and had guns
held to their heads just before some Islamic monster hacked their
heads? How about Nick Berg's decapitated body hanging upside down on
display in Baghdad? There was no a peep uttered from the side of
useful idiots of Islam , like yourself, who were hysterically
screeching then about Abu Ghraib “tortures” but today about the ROE
and Gitmo.
>.The Israelis don't share our values.
No. You and jihad don't share our values, not Israel.
>We're not going to become Israelis.
Surely not and we not going to become dhimmis as well in spite of all
your attempts.
>Surely not under Barak Obama.
I still hope we survive this Muslim freak .
>Rather than tear that down those ROE we should choose not to
> get involved over there.
So, it's better to give up and surrender to sharia without fight?
>We have no stake in it anyway. Tell us, what
> stake do non Jewish Americans have in Israel keeping the West Bank?
What is the West Bank? It is not the West Bank. It is Judea – Jew-dea
– and Samaria. There is no occupation except the Muslim occupation of
Israel.
> > >But he's set a
> > > withdrawal date and If his history means anything he'll keep it.
>
> > He set a surrender date. Surrender to Islam. That's for sure.
>
> Not at all. It's a date by which it will be reasonable to believe that
> we have either prevailed or can not with any reasonable level of
> effort.
Who do you wanna to fool ? Jihadis? Yes, they may be barbaric but not
so stupid. They know how surrender looks like. They also are familiar
with the ROE.
>The war in Iraq and Afghanistan have lasted something like
> nine years. He's not going to let that run on.
Of course not. He simply let that run on American streets. It is
already running in its cold version.
>He's going to face the facts and take the heat. In the meantime he's going to focus on our
> greatest problem, Israel.
If he is really such a fool like you describe him I don't mind, so be
it. But in contrast to you , ignoramus , he knows what Islam is. He
is Muslim himself. He surely can sacrifice Israel to Islam and he
probably working in this direction. But he also aware that after
Israel demise , this stupidity will bite him in the ass. His
presidency days will be numbered. Today even the self-righteous Euro
Socialists understand that after Israel they will deal with jihad
directly without a buffer zone -Izrael. That's why if all they are as
foolish and reckless as you are , they can allow this stupidity, but
before they will do that, they all will enjoy a taste of nuclear
fallouts over the all ME and Europe . I have a great doubts that
Israel allows to butcher herself without a fight for the sake of
pleasing islam.
staten
wrote:
> On May 8, 6:30 pm, staten <state...@lycos.com> wrote:
>
> > We have that policy. It's called a full surrender to Islam and Sharia.
>
> You're hyperventilating. Get a hold of yourself. Join the military, go
> to Afghanistan.
Go to Gitmo. Your place is there!
> > Now Obama's dhimmi officials even cannot say “Islamic terrorism”
> > anymore. They can say anything but “Islamic”.
>
> Why is it a good idea to use the term?
Because this is ISALAMIC TERRORISM, idiot!
>You want some sort of yellow
> journalism standards to govern matters of war and peace here. We're
> getting plenty of that from the Israel lobby and the shall we say
> influenced press.
Then why “Israel Lobby” doesn't allow to print “Islamic terrorism” if
you are saying Jews are the “worst enemies of Islam and Muslims? Why
don't you try to treat your dementia?It is progressing.
> > That's not all. Sucking up to Islam has sunk to a new low . Now ,
> > even on cable television, on a network where anything goes, one thing
> > does not go: Depicting Mohammed, even in a bear suit (remember Comedy
> > Central where they were afraid to say the word Mohammed?). That same
> > iron law has been unofficially passed in country after country, where
> > operas, newspapers, books, television programs have been censored in
> > order to avoid offending the Muslims who might kill them, if they
> > were not censored. Free speech in America and in EU does not exist
> > anymore. Thank you liberal comrades and Chairman Obama !
>
> Because name calling is just provocation.
What name calling? “Mohammad”? Since what time it has become a curse
word?
>We gain nothing by expanding
> the number of our enemies.
Our enemies are “expanding” anyway. They read the Koran, but you fool,
don't . But the problem is there, not in a bunch of silly cartoons.
>Join the military. That will actually help
> the effort.
Join Gitmo, they anyway will throw you there one day for your
sedition . Get experience.
>
> Quick, Staten, tell us why we fight the Taliban in Afghanistan. Who
> the hell are they and why do we need to kill them?
Because they kill us, stupit. It is war. It is in the Koran. Read it.
>
> > No they are not “perceived,” , idiot. They are real. They are here.
> > 3,314 Americans killed by Muslims in 67 terror attacks on Amrican
> > soil. 15 , 257 deadly terror attacks since 9/11 have been committed by
> > Muslims across the world. How many Americans need to die more before
> > you say that enemies are not “perceived” but REAL, you self-
> > satisfied , suicidal moron ?
>
> > >We've got 200,000 troops over
> > > there now. We don't have any more.
>
> > We can have 2,000,000, 20, 000,0000 and the result will be still the
> > same.
>
> Then subduing the Muslim World is obviously nonsense.
Nonsense? But you said Israel can do it alone. Remember?
> How we suppose to fight our enemies if in the Obama's FBI’s> Counter-Terrorism Manual, the words “Islam” and “jihad” cannot be
> > found? Who are we fighting now ? Ghosts armies?
>
> How do you suggest that we fight our political enemies, the Lobby and
> the Israelis?
Our political enemies are Saudi Lobbi and jihad, idiot. Again you
screwed up everything.
> > > Eighty Muslim men sentenced in 2009? Wow!
>
> > Yep. Expect more in 2010, if Hussein O won't be impeached.
>
> Impeached for what, Inadequate toadying for Israel?
Nope. A Muslim cannot be a good president leading infidel countries.
The Muslim is loyal only to Islam. If you still have doubts ask major
Malik Hassan while he is still alive.
> > Anyone familiar with Skinner Boxes knows that one method of keeping a
> > dog from ever entering an area forbidden to him is to give him not a
> > mild shock, not an extreme shock, not a strong shock, but to give such
> > an overwhelming, devastating, horrific shock that the dog will endure
> > a punishment ten times worse rather than enter the area again. This is
> > the way how to treat Islam.
>
> Hydorgen bombs? We don't have any more troops. You can't occupy these
> Muslims guys without foot soldiers. Answer my question, will be get
> them from New York's Jewish neighborhoods?
I am not a spokesperson for Jewish neighborhoods. You should invest
more time in treating your schizophrenia.
>We aren't getting them yet.
Who are “we”? And why do you need them? For your new Islamic ovens?
> How are we going to change that? We'll need tens of thousands of
> Jewish kids for your project.
They are busy already fighting Hamas-Gestapo and Hizbonazis.
> We have all means to do this.
I have no doubts that you and your friends jihadis keep your new
Islamic ovens in excellent shape.
> You can't occupy the Muslim world without millions and millions of
> foot soldiers.
If you believe tiny Israel can do it , why can't we?
> And we don't
>
> > need too much troops. Ask our ancestors. They perfectly were aware -
> > in war, the Muslims could be either victorious or dead. So to defeat
> > the Muslims, they need to be fought to their deaths.
>
> Okay, and we're going to be doing that throughout the Muslim world but
> "we don't need too much troops"? We've also gotta "fight 'em to their
> deaths"? All six hundred million of those Muslim guys. And we're going
> to do it without casualties and and without even too much troops. Yes,
> okay. When do we start? Indeed, where do we start. How 'bout Bali?
Where to start? Start in our home first . We have mucho clandestine
and open jihadists and their whores , like yourself , living among
us. It's high time to clean our house.
>
> At the Battle of
>
> > Tours in 732, the brave Franks being in minority surrounded the Arab-
> > Muslim army and slaughtered it almost up to the last man and saved
> > France and Europe from Islam. That was the right way. The Franks had
> > determination and will to destroy their enemies and they were
> > victorious. We have Obama, ROEs and we losing ground to Islam in
> > spite of astounding military superiority. Unbelievable.
>
> We can only field 200,000 troops and probably half of them are non-
> combatants. So it's a hundred thousand grunts. We're going to defeat,
> subdue and occupy the Muslim World with a hundred thousand troops?
> What's that, four thousand for each Muslim Country? Where would we
> station our four thousand men in Indonesia? It must have something
> like four thousand populated islands. Do you think we could take and
> hold Jakarta with that many? Sorry, but no, we could not.
We don't need to station our troops anywhere. Just bomb to the stone
age one Islamic shit-hole to show the rest that we are dead serious ,
the rest will think twice before jihadize us again. Muslims are
cowards they are brave only behind skirts of their women protected by
our ROE.
Besides this is not only our war. More and more people on earth are
fed up with Islam. If we combine our efforts to crash this deadly
infectious disease, Islam's days are numbered. You cannot terrorize
people for ever and ever and not expect their resistance.
> > That's very smart. Ask the Franks and the Crusaders. Europe is free
> > today only because they crashed Islam without giving up any country to
> > Islam or bribing it with billions , like Obama and his dhimmi marxist
> > pack sacrificing Israel today.
>
> Yes, yes, if we don't conquer the Muslim world we will be abandoning
> Israel and we will also become dhimmi Marxists.
No, dhimmi Marxists will be gone in November. We are fed up with their
experiments.
>How did we come to have this obligation to Israel? Think now. You owe it to us to
> explain.
“Obligation to Israel” exists only in overheated minds of paranoid
schizophrenics like yourself. We have obligation to protect our
Republic and our Constitution that the paranoid schizophrenics like
yourself want to replace with sharia. This is dead wrong and that's
why we need to fight jihad and their whores like yourself dead
seriously.
> > >But getting a handle on Israeli aggression against their
> > > Palestinian neighbors and striking a deal with the Iranians is.
>
> > After Israel, the next “palestine” will be in EU and still later in
> > California or New York. Islam knows no compromises. No sacrifices and
> > no billions can bribe Islam untill all of the world will be Dar al-
> > Islam. Striking a deal with Islam is a sure recipe for suicide. If you
> > don't treasure your life, go and commit suicide alone. Don't hold us
> > hostage of your liberal idiocy.
>
> Pure Zionist manipulation. None of these specters are actual dangers.
Take a lesson of history which Persia, Byzantine, Visigothic Spain,
pre-Islamic North Africa of King Gregory, all tell us. All of these
kingdoms went down before Islam one by one. They didn't take Islam
seriously. But Islam has not changed. Not for a single bit since
then.
Islam has become even more deadly and aggressive seeing passivity of
the world. History should not repeat itself if civilization is to
survive the mortal threat of Islam.
> We're not going to be stampeded by bullshit like this.
No one is going to ask you , traitor, what you want to do. Sooner or
later we will elect real leaders , like Wilders or Allen West. But
your place will be in Gitmo, jihadi bootlicker.
>We're going to get control of our relationship with Israel or let her go her own way.
On behalf of whom are you talking about, jihadnik. Come down from the
podium. No one is hearing you except the same loons in the Usenet.
> Hey, you told us to get out of her way.
Yep.
>Tough Israel, all 7,000,000, will conquer the Muslim World!
Israel is not a conqueror . You mistaken it with Islam.
>We'll put that to the acid test when Israel is given the choices I describe.
Israel brilliantly has passed the test. She is still alive in spite of
62 years of relentless attempts to destroy this tiny country. Just
leave her alone and she will continue contributing to modern
civilization benefiting all of us.
>In the meantime, join the infantry, Staten. If you have family, send the men and boys to the
> infantry. We'll find out how badly they want to conquer the Muslim
> World after a month or two in the field in Uzbekistan. Don't expect
> the rest of us to do it for you.-
I don't expect from traitors of my country anything but back-stabbing,
defeatism and selling it out to Islam. I got your message right. You
better pray that once in Gitmo they wouldn't appoint someone like
Staten to be your prison guard.
coaste...@yahoo.com
> "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:d58af5e6-946e-48b7...@a2g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
> On May 9, 12:23 am, staten <state...@lycos.com> wrote:
>
> > On May 7, 1:50 am, "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
>
> > > On May 6, 9:42 pm, "Count 1" <omnipitus2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > If Israel never existed Salafists would still hate you, and they
> > > would still be craving the bomb to kill more infidels.
>
> This is the Hasbara argument. It's purpose is to convince Americans
> the Israel is fighting OUR war against Islam. That's false. Israel is
> not fighting our war. We have no interest in the Golan and the West
> Bank. Less than none in fact.
> ***
>
> Nope. This is the fact, Salafism - which is much older than you know -
> creates Islam as the supreme ideology to be imposed no matter what the
> means.
Salafist jihadism
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Part of the Politics series on
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Salafist jihadism (also Salafi jihadism) is a school of thought of
Salafi Muslims who support violent jihad. The term was coined by
scholar Gilles Kepel[1][2] to describe Salafi who began developing an
interest in violent jihad during the mid-1990s. Practitioners are
often referred to as Salafi jihadis or Salafi jihadists. Journalist
Bruce Livesey estimates Salafi jihadists constitute less than 1
percent of the world's 1.4 billion Muslims (c. 10 million). [1]
Contents [hide]
1 Background
2 Leaders, groups and activities
2.1 Groups
3 See also
4 Sources
[edit]Background
Whereas "Salafists originally are supposedly not violent," and the
Salafis Gilles Kepel encountered in Europe in the 1980s were "totally
apolitical", by the mid 1990s he met many who felt jihad in the form
of "violence and terrorism were justified to realize their political
objectives". The combination of Salafi alienation from all things non-
Muslim — including "mainstream European society" — and violent jihad
created a "volatile mixture".[1] "When you're in the state of such
alienation you become easy prey to the jihadi guys who will feed you
more savory propaganda than the old propaganda of the Salafists who
tell you to pray, fast and who are not taking action." [1]
According to Kepel, Salafism jihadism combined "respect for the sacred
texts in their most literal form, ... with an absolute commitment to
jihad, whose number-one target had to be America, perceived as the
greatest enemy of the faith."[3]
Salafist jihadists distinguished themselves from salafis they called
"sheikist", so named because they had (according to the jihadists)
forsaken adoration of God for adoration of "the oil sheiks of the
Arabian peninsula, with the Al Saud family at their head". The
sheikists' theorist was Abd al-Aziz ibn Abd Allah ibn Baaz "the
archetypal court ulema [ulama al-balat]". These false salalfi "had to
be striven against and eliminated," but even more dangerous was the
Muslim Brotherhood, who were (jihadists believed) excessively moderate
and lacking in literal interpretation of holy texts.[3]
Another definition of Salafi jihadism, offered by Mohammed M. Hafez,
is an "extreme form of Sunni Islamism that rejects democracy and Shia
rule." Hafez distinguished them not only with apolitical and
conservative Salafi scholars (such as Muhammad Nasiruddin al-Albani,
Muhammad ibn al Uthaymeen, Abd al-Aziz ibn Abd Allah ibn Baaz and
Abdul-Azeez ibn Abdullaah Aal ash-Shaikh), but from the sahwa movement
associated with Salman al-Ouda or Safar Al-Hawali.[4]
According to Mohammed M. Hafez, contemporary jihadi Salafism is
characterized by "five features" -
immense emphasis on the concept of tawhid (unity of God);
God's sovereignty (hakimiyyat Allah) which defines right and wrong,
good and evil, and which supersedes human reasoning is applicable in
all places on earth and at all times, and makes unnecessary and
unIslamic other ideologies such as liberalism or humanism;
the rejection of all innovation (Bid‘ah) to Islam;
the permissibility and necessity of takfir (the declaring of a Muslim
to be outside the creed, so that they must either repent or face
execution);
and on the centrality of jihad against infidel regimes.[4]
Antecedents of Salafism jihadism include Islamist author Sayyid Qutb,
who develped the idea that the Islamic world has been replaced by
pagan ignorance of Jahiliyyah, and the group Takfir wal-Hijra, who
kidnapped and murdered an Egyptian ex-government minister in 1978.
[edit]Leaders, groups and activities
Its leaders included Afghan jihad veterans such as the Palestinian Abu
Qatada, the Syrian Mustafa Setmariam Nasar, the Egyptian Mustapha
Kamel, known as Abu Hamza al-Masri and later Osama bin Laden. The
dissident Saudi preachers Salman al-Ouda and Safar Al-Hawali, were
held in high esteem by this school.
Murad Al-shishani of the The Jamestown Foundation states there have
been three generations of Salafi-jihadists: those waging jihad in
Afghanistan, Bosnia and Iraq. As of the mid-00s, Arab fighters in Iraq
were "the latest and most important development of the global Salafi-
jihadi movement".[5] These fighters were usually not Iraqis, but
volunteers who had come to Iraq from other countries, mainly Saudi
Arabia. Unlike in earlier Salafi jihadi actions "a significant
constituency of Egyptians" was not among the volunteers.[5] According
to Bruce Livesey Salafist jihadists are currently a "burgeoning
presence in Europe, having attempted more than 30 terrorist attacks
among E.U. countries" from September 2001 to the beginning of 2005".
[1]
According to Mohammed M. Hafez, in Iraq jihadi salafi are pursuing a
"system-collapse stategy" whose goal is to intall an "Islamic emirate
based on Sunni dominance, similar to the Taliban regime in
Afghanistan." In addition to occupation/coalition personnel they
target mainly Iraqi security forces and Shia civilians, but also
"foreign journalists, translators and transport drivers and the
economic and physical infrastructure of Iraq."[4]
[edit]Groups
Salafist jihadists groups include Al Qaeda and the now defunct
Algerian Armed Islamic Group (GIA).[3] According to Mohammed M. Hafez,
"as of 2006 the two major groups within the jihadi Salafi camp" in
Iraq were the Mujahidin Shura Council and the Ansar al Sunna Group.
The Mujahidin Shura Council is an umbrella group which contains Al
Qaeda in Iraq. [4] There are also a number of small jihadist Salafist
groups in Azerbaijan.[6] Jund Ansar Allah is, or was, an armed
Salafist jihadist organization in the Gaza Strip. On August 14, 2009,
the group's spiritual leader, Sheikh Abdel Latif Moussa, announced
during Friday sermon the establishment of an Islamic emirate in the
Palestinian territories attacking the ruling authority, the Islamist
group Hamas, for failing to enforce Sharia law. Hamas forces responded
to his sermon by surrounding his Ibn Taymiyya mosque complex and
attacking it. In the fighting that ensued, 24 people (including Sheikh
Abdel Latif Moussa himself), were killed and over 130 were wounded.[7]
[edit]See also
Israel isn't fighting anyone's war against Islam, as there is no war
> against Islam.
It's apologists pretend it is on the front lines in the "war against
terrorism" which is now being redefined as a war against Islam.
Staten''s an exponent of it. It's the current Lobby shtick.
Right now Israel isn't fighting any war at all, but will be
> if Hamas ever gets enough weapons and Hezbollah get's antsy and starts
> another war.
The Israelis started that war to refresh their deterrent.
>
> You have interests in the Golan and West Bank to the extent your ally Israel
> does -
Bullshit, no involuntary, derivative lockstep. America has no inherent
national interest in the Golan or the West Bank. They mean nothing to
Americans and Israel can be defended without them. In fact the
Israelis knew the 1967 War was over through intercepted radio
transmissions when your general with the eye patch decided impulsively
to send his armor up the slop to the heights. Read his memoir. In fact
he also admits that that the famous Syrian artillery fire from the
heights which Israel used as justification for taking the Golan, was
mostly the result conscious Israeli provocations.
especially the Golan which is of obvious strategic importance to
> Israel.
No it's not. It's not part of a 19th Century battlefield.
Instead of this constant drum beating about how Israel is the cause
> of Islamic terrorism directed against the US, a lie you tell as you know it
> isn't the truth,
It's not the only cause. I've emphasized that over and over. We've
made enemies on our own over there, certainly. But we're fighting
Israel's enemies too. And we're seen as complicit in Israel's crimes.
We can only deal with those problems by dealing with Israel.
you should spend some time learning about the ideology of
> those who want to see you dead, or converted (actually the term they use is
> 'revert') to their religion.
Hasbara. Designed to buy time to finish planting facts on the ground
on the West Bank.
Our interests there are not the same as Israel's. We can protect her
without giving up any part of our sovereignty to her. A regional
settlement is in our interests. They far outweigh whether Israel
reaches her goal of a Greater Israel.
> Even the most recent failed attack had nothing to do with Israel - Shazhad
> was pissed about predator drone attacks killing his Pakistan Taliban
> buddies. He wasn't in it for the Palestinians.
Tiresome pedantry. We drove the Taliban out of Afghanistan because
of 9/11--and in a burst of profound idiocy, STAYED to nation build
when all that was at issue was hot pursuit of bin Laden. We didn't
capture him because Bush got distracted by the prospect of turning
Iraq into a democracy to make the region safe for Israel.. One of bin
Laden's central complaints against us was our uncritical enabling of
Israel in the oppression of the Palestinians. It's also connected with
Israel's efforts to exert hegemony in the region by bullying and
implicit nuclear threats. There's plenty of connection with Israel.
It's stupid to try to argue your way out of it. You should avoid the
subject for the same reasons you avoid discussing Israel's right to
ethnically cleanse Palestine and to erect a Jewish State.
coaste...@yahoo.com
You've answered a single post five times. I'll answer this one but not
the others unless you make a good case for doing so.
On May 9, 10:34 pm, staten <state...@lycos.com> wrote:
> On May 9, 3:30 am, "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> > On May 8, 6:30 pm, staten <state...@lycos.com> wrote:
>
> > > Any means are good fighting Islamic plague including nukes if jihadist
> > > bastards lay their hands on it.
>
> > But they have NOT yet laid their hands on it.
You don't know that state terrorism is a separate category.
> Yes, they are , idiot. Iran already has means to create nukes
Okay, so we're going to use nuclear weapons against the third world's
Muslims on behalf of Israel too. Just wanted to get that clear.
Iran doesn't have the means to create nukes. Just ask Ratner.
and
> deliver them to Europe and to the US.
It doesn't except by UPS possibly.
Pakistan has nukes and has a
> corrupt , unstable government existing only thanks to our military
> back up and mega billion infusions to this Islamic shit-hole.
You know nothing about what the US has faced in dealing with a nuclear
Pakistan.
The
> situation there can change at any minute and we don't control this
> sewer Islamic pit .
No we don't. And what's more we haven't the strategic military reach
to control it. Nothing near it. And we're bankrupt. You know how that
happened.
We even cannot get access to Waziristan where
> Osama and his jihadi cutthroats is hiding.
We drone it all the time. We have special forces units there. We have
agents in the region. But we're NOT going to invade Waziristan. An
occasional incursion perhaps but no occupation. No one cares about
actually "getting" bin Laden. Not enough to do that anyway.
And don't forget
> potential smuggling nukes , nuke components or know-hows from Norks,
> Pakistan( M.Qhan and his personal role in nuclear weapon
> proliferation), Russia . After collapse of the Soviets and the
> following total chaos and super corruption in Russian military, no
> one can say for sure there what might have been stolen from the
> Soviet nuclear arsenals. Russia itself cannot control its own
> military. How do you know that Islamists don't already have
> capability to blow up dirty nuke suitcases in our cities? How do you
> know that they have not delivered deadly chemicals somewhere in
> Mexican jungles and just wait for opportunity to blow up the devilish
> concoction in NYC or Chicago? Do you believe in gentleman's agreement
> with mullahs and sheiks , idiot?
There's nothing new here. This life provides far more threats than
remedies for them. Especially when they are hypothesized as if they
were fact and blown out of proportion in your fashion they are capable
of petrifying the timid. That's why we need steady, thoughtful,
unconflicted American leadership capable of making decisions in the
interest of the nation as a whole. You represent inexperienced, half
angry, half nerved-up supporters of Israel with conflicts of interest
a mile wide.
We'll make our own decisions about how to protect Israel, than you
very much. We'll make the decisions about protecting ourselves too.
You are a lunatic. You display no judgment. You think the US is
capable of carrying-off anything, world-wide. Face it. We aren't.
Especially now that our ability to project military power has come to
its outer limits. We can still bomb the hell out of opponents, but
that's short term. We can't occupy them, can't subdue them if we do
occupy them and most of this scenerio of yours is therefore
impossible. Accordingly, we have no choice but to take a different
approach, a realist approach.
Join the infantry, Staten. Reality lives there 24/7.
> >I've read your entire post before responding. It's clear to me
> > that you want a general American war against "Islam" including the use
> > of nuclear weapons.
>
> Because Islam already at war with us, buffoon!
We've already been over your numbers. You''re wrong.
> >I ask you why America should fight this war?
>
> Because Islam fighting this war against us and against the entire
> world , idiot!
But that's untrue. For example, I can't think of a single Muslim State
which has warred against us since 1990 except in the context of our
invading them. Not a single Muslim government is warring against us
now, not even Iran. Israel has enemies in sub-national terrorist
groups which are aided by nation states, Syria and Iran for example.
But neither of those groups is attacking us. Their war is with Israel.
They are smarter than you. They stick to struggles which are
manageable. As a result we can still talk to them, negotiate with them
even if it is in violation of the promises not to extracted from weak
administrations by Israel and her lobby. We have a new administration
now. That self-defeating toadyesque crap is not binding.
>
> >Why is it to be "our" war?
>
> Because we want to live under American Constitution , not under
> sharia.
But there is no potential whatever for America to live under sharia
law. None. That's true of Europe too. Nor is their any threat of the
Muslim overthrow of the American Constitution. You have a fevered
imagination. Most Muslim lands are third world countries.
Frankly, it's obvious that you wan't us to fight this war with Islam
to de-pressurize Israel. Why don't you simply say it? It's Israel's
war, not ours. And the war option is not the sole opportunity for
"solving" Israel's self-inflicted problems. In fact it's the last
thing she needs. She needs peace. She needs it whether she wants it or
not. I think she's going to get what she needs. She'll live with it
just fine thank you very much.
> >If it isn't our war, I ask you on whose behalf
> > we should fight it? And why?
>
> It isn't just our war. Ask Russians. Ask Indians. Ask Euros. Ask
> Africans. Ask all those people on this planet who are being burned,
> tortured, beheaded , blown to bits by Islam on the daily basis.
Okay, it's not our war. Why are we having this conversation.
Nevertheless, what are we going to do with 1.3 bn Muslim captives,
Staten? Are they destined for re-education camps ala the Chinese and
Vietnamese? Maybe we'll sub contract that out to the Israelis. We're
not very good at it.
Ask
> those black Africans who live in Islamic slavery. Ask about Islamic
> genocide of Armenians, Indians.
But don't you have more reason to be concerned about Germanic genocide
of Jews. Why the shift to Muslims? Just a matter of new geography, eh?
Just a matter of having been blind to likely consequences? It's a law
you know, the law of unanticipated consequences.
We need to fight because Islam is at
> war with the whole world.
Untrue. There is terrorism. But the only wars we're fighting are those
in which we made the mistake of invading Muslim countries without
prospect of significant benefit.. Now you want more of the latter.
Islam is all about Jihad,
No. It has a Jihad doctrine. That is a small subset of what Islam is.
You are so fanatical as to be able to talk yourself into saying nearly
anything.
killing the
> infidel, and bringing Islam to the whole world.
Islam pretty much reached its limits in the late Middle Ages. It's
exhausted. Impoverished. And the resource rich states don't want to
piss off their superpower customers.
That's why we need to
> fight, you fucking , self-righteous moron.
Another sign that you've lost it. You can't deal with idea's coolly.
Who is going to do the fighting, Staten? Who is "we"?
Otherwise another
> “palestine” soon will be raging on our streets.
Will our Zionists oppress the rest of us, erect 'settlements' and
apartheid walls? Otherwise it can't be another Palestine.
It is already
> here ,so far in its cold version because luckily jihadi bombs fail to
> explode but their plots continue to be busted almost an every other
> month. ,
> > You are obviously Jewish and your internal answer is "for Israel".
>
> Was MARCO POLO “Jewish” who said:
> “The law which their prophet Mohamed has given to muslims is that any
> harm done to any one who does not accept their law and any
> appropriation of his goods, is no sin at all.” ?
For Chrissake, Staten, there's lots of stuff like that in the Talmud.
The religions are related quite closely.
>
> Was JOHN QUINCY ADAMS “Jewish” who said:
> ”The essence of mohammed’s doctrine was violence and lust: to exalt
> the brutal over the spiritual part of human nature.” ?
One questions whether he read the Old Testament. Was he Jefferson's
Secretary of State? Haha.
>
> Was Sir Winston Churchill “Jewish” who called Adolf Hitler’s ‘Mein
> Kampf’ “the new Quran of faith and war, turgid, verbose, shapeless,
> but pregnant with its message”.
>
> Was Oriana Felaci “Jewish” who said : "Europe is no longer Europe,
> it is 'Eurabia,' a colony of Islam, where the Islamic invasion does
> not proceed only in a physical sense, but also in a mental and
> cultural sense. Servility to the invaders has poisoned democracy, with
> obvious consequences for the freedom of thought, and for the concept
> itself of liberty."?
You will find Ms. Oriana livid at the fashion in which you misrendered
her name.
>
> Is Geert Wilders “Jewish” who says that Islam is destroying Europe and
> the Western civilization?
No but he's wrong.
>
> Is Dannish psychiatrist Nicolai Sennels “Jewish” who said: “All of
> Europe is currently struggling to integrate Muslims but this endeavor
> seems to be impossible.”?
>
> Is Allen West (a great American , war hero, running for Congress)
> “Jewish” when he commented on Islam and jihad :
> “You want to dig up Charles Martel and ask him why him why he was
> fighting the Muslim army at the Battle of Tours in 732? You want to
> ask the Venetian fleet at Lepanto why they were fighting a Muslim
> fleet in 1571? You want to ask…the Germanic and Austrian knights why
> they were fighting at the gates of Vienna in 1683? You want to ask
> people what happened at Constantinople and why today it is called
> Istanbul because they lost that fight in 1453? You need to get into
> the Koran…and understand their precepts. This is not a perversion.
> They are doing exactly what this book says.”
>
> Are SIOA , SIOE, EDL, SIOD activists against Islamization of America
> and Europe are full of Jews who speak up against Muslim barbaric
> culture of ignorance, poverty, misogyny, and violence that they are
> attempting to inflict this culture on a largely Enlightened West?
>
> NO! They are not “Jewish”! You insult all people in the world who are
> fed up with Islam by presenting that their struggle against this world
> cancer is only in the interest of Jews.
Bullshit. Not remotely guilty on any count. What you refuse to take
into account is that what you call for CAN'T BE DONE. Therefore, the
stupidity of trying it won't even be considered among sober men and
women. If I'm going to insult anyone it will be those like you who
suggest obvious fiascoes like you do here. It can't be done and Israel
has no claim on us to even consider it. You know damned well this
cocameme plan is yours is connected with Israel's interests. Well,
tell your friends that the answer is 'NO'. We'll make our own plans
for the protection of Israel from your ilk. You'd have her incinerated
in a flash. She can't be safe in your hands. We've got to send this
damned Lobby packing.
> I can tell you more. When the EDL tried to organize mass protests in
> London against advancing Islamic supremacism destroying English
> culture and in support of Israel , no one of the London's Jews showed
> up to participate. But some Jewish organizations like JC.com, even
> were running a piece urging Jews not to support the SIOE and EDL.
> These Jewish idiots obviously badly miss the tens of thousands of
> Muslims calling for their death across the UK and Europe back in
> January.
You're a movement fanatic. You can't be relied upon to solve anything.
You haven't the common sense God gave a fence post.
> Likewise. Most of 75-80% of American Jews voting for libs and Obama
> couldn't give a fuck about Islam or Israel. 50% of American Jewish
> students expressed their views that the world would be much better
> without Israel.
The world would be much better if Israel quit making trouble for the
rest of us. I do think that Israel is one of the greatest threats to
world peace. She has your paranoid outlook in the corporate sense. She
should give up those nukes. Who knows what she would do with them in
some new funk. You're Israel in microcosm. You need a nanny. She needs
an army of nannies.
These liberal cretins if ever ask again, "how did it
> happen?," needs a swift kick in the head. Go over to the Islamist and
> the left wing sites and read carefully -- they are preparing the new
> ovens for you, idiots.
Post something and point it out. I don't think you have to wit to
understand what you read in this field.
> That's why , I am saying to you again, paranoid , illogical idiot, you
> have no clue what you are bubbling about. Pull your your head from
> your ass and look around yourself , debil, there is nothing “Jewish”
> if people stand up against Islam .
Of course not. But does that mean there is nothing Jewish in the
behavior of the Jewish State since 1947? If you say there isn't I'll
accept it. But that won't make it a bit more acceptable.
Islam is enemy of all freedom
> loving people. If you still cannot get it, then if you are not
> totally corrupt, you are incomprehensibly stupid.
Totalitarianism is the enemy of all freedom loving people.
> > Accordingly I have less difficulty understanding your fanaticism and
> > the tremendous disjunct between your views and reality at every level.
>
> This is not “fanaticism”.
No of course not. What a fool I am. Conquering the entire Muslim World
by force of arms is a perfectly rational project for the United
States. Where do we begin? And whose kids do we draft first? You've
got to answer the practical questions sooner or later. When will the
draft reach the sixty year olds? What do you say that we use up the
IDF first. You know, to give us sort of a breather while we are busy
trashing what's left of our economy to gear up for "Armageddon For the
West Bank". That might give us a week or so of extra time.
What I told you are hard facts based on
> reality that , you fucking sleazball , refuse to accept preferring
> to hide truth behind your stupid fables about Jews.
I don't do fables or anything else about "Jews." Zionism isn't
"Jews". Israeli policy isn't "Jews". Oppression of the Palestinian
people isn't "Jews". The crimes of particular Israeli governments
aren't "Jewish". But Zionism has proved to be essentially a rationale
for criminal behavior. Israeli policy has been that of a criminal
state. The oppression of the Palestinian people on the altar of
Zionism is not justified morally, historically, politically or even
militarily. Germans and their filthy allies committed the Holocaust.
The Palestinian people were completely innocent of that. Now that the
mess has become so dangerous, so intolerable, Israeli Zionists simply
can no longer hope to make the relevant decisions unhindered. They
can't be trusted to do it. They've forfeited that in myriad ways.
We'll protect them. We have a moral obligation to do that. But they
are going to be taken into protective custody for a while. They're
going to undergo hubris detoxification therapy for a while. They're
going to become a sane, typical, normal little nation state. And
they're going to stop trying to run American foreign policy. Get used
to it. Once what we've done for her finally sinks in she'll be damned
happy she doesn't have the West Bank and the Golan Heights and that
she has a chance to reconcile herself with the rest of the world at
last. Being a pariah is a drag.
You are full of
> shit. Good advice – read on your subject before writing silly trash.
> Don't expect that all people are as screwed up as you are.
You probably ought to prevail once in a while before saying such
things. You probably ought to build up your intellectual courage a bit
so that you don't have to pretend that Israel has nothing to do with
the fantastic arguments you make. Then finally, that tour in the
American infantry over there in Uzbekistan. You'll grow up in a hurry.
The Peeler
<BG> Is there ONE minute in your sick "life" when you don't think and
fantasize about "the Jews", you sick degenerate subnormal psychopathic
swine? LOL
--
Retarded, subnormal and extremely proud of it: our resident psychopath, The
Retard!
staten
wrote:
> You've answered a single post five times. I'll answer this one but not
> the others unless you make a good case for doing so.
>
You are denying and lying on behalf of promoting jihad. Mullah-nazis
in Iran not only have means they are helped to keep it up by
communist regimes.
Report: China, Iran, North Korea have formed strategic alliance
T"he report said that Beijing, Pyongyang and Teheran were helping each
other in missile and nuclear programs. The report, titled "China, Iran
and North Korea: A Triangular Strategic Alliance,"
Israel's GLORIA Center said China and North Korea were the key
suppliers of Scud-based ballistic missiles to Iran's military, the
target of Western sanctions.
"This flurry of activities underscored the growing proliferation
threats posed by DPRK [North Korea] assistance to Iran's missile
capabilities, which has also led to collaboration in the nuclear
realm," the report, published in the Middle East Review of
International Affairs, said. "
http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/WTARC/2010/ea_china0383_05_07.asp
But Obama meanwhile keep bowing to Saudi kings and apologizing for
America before the world's worst tyrants and dictators.
> You know nothing about what the US has faced in dealing with a nuclear
> Pakistan.
Just wait when Pakistan joins NORKS and China in delivering nukes to
Iran.
> No we don't. And what's more we haven't the strategic military
reach
> to control it. Nothing near it. And we're bankrupt. You know how that
> happened.
Sure. We elected Obama .
> And don't forget
>
> > potential smuggling nukes , nuke components or know-hows from Norks,
> > Pakistan( M.Qhan and his personal role in nuclear weapon
> > proliferation), Russia . After collapse of the Soviets and the
> > following total chaos and super corruption in Russian military, no
> > one can say for sure there what might have been stolen from the
> > Soviet nuclear arsenals. Russia itself cannot control its own
> > military. How do you know that Islamists don't already have
> > capability to blow up dirty nuke suitcases in our cities? How do you
> > know that they have not delivered deadly chemicals somewhere in
> > Mexican jungles and just wait for opportunity to blow up the devilish
> > concoction in NYC or Chicago? Do you believe in gentleman's agreement
> > with mullahs and sheiks , idiot?
>
> There's nothing new here.
Of course not . Except the fact that Islam already is armed with nukes
and is just waiting a right time how to deliver them to our shores if
we continue to keep Obama in office but the 5th columnists of jihad,
like yourself , out of reach of prison.
>That's why we need steady, thoughtful,
> unconflicted American leadership capable of making decisions in the
> interest of the nation as a whole.
We have this government , but it makes decisions in the interest of
Islam. It's very "thoughtful " when showering Islam with billions of
our hard earned money. They make sure no one of Islamic shit- hole is
missed.
> Join the infantry, Staten. Reality lives there 24/7.
I don't take advices from filthy whores of Islam. Sorry.
>Not a single Muslim government is warring against us
> now, not even Iran.
That's beyond stupid. Of course they don't do it openly, idiot. They
are cowards. It's much more convenient and cheaper to send a bunch
of Allah-intoxicated lunatics to missile our tall buildings by jets
and murdering our citizens. Trillions in damage and a total fear
gripping the country is all Islam needs. Next step - exploding a dirty
suitcase or a devilish concoction of chemicals making 9/11 just a
pathetic holiday firework which is underway if we continue to keep
Obama in office but traitors like yourself whoring for jihad out of
Gitmo.
>Israel has enemies ......................
[demented obsession with "Israel enemies" flushed ]
> But there is no potential whatever for America to live under sharia
> law. None.
Sharia already here in its lite version. Now we scared even to spell
the word "Mohammad" on our comedy cable network. What's next ? Public
stoning on Times square because it is a part of the great Moslem
culture and we should be very sensitive to their feelings?
>That's true of Europe too.
Of course. And that's why Europe is suing its PMs for telling truth
about Islam.
> Most Muslim lands are third world countries.
They always have been barbaric and savage from day one after inventing
Islam. What's new is here?
> Ask those black Africans who live in Islamic slavery. Ask about Islamic
> > genocide of Armenians, Indians.
>
> But don't you have more reason to be concerned about Germanic genocide
> of Jews. Why the shift to Muslims?
Because German genocide is history. Muslim genocide and slavery still
flourishing in Africa and the ME NOW!
> Islam is all about Jihad,
>
> No. It has a Jihad doctrine. That is a small subset of what Islam is.
Bullshit. The Quran calls for hatred, violence, submission, murder,
and terrorism. The Quran calls for Muslims to kill non-Muslims, to
terrorize non-Muslims and to fulfil their duty to wage war: violent
jihad. Jihad is a duty for every Muslim, Islam is to rule the world -
by the sword!There is no place in the Qur'an where Muhammad commands
Muslims to love people of other religions. By contrast there are at
least three dozen verses that tell Muslims to fight against non-
Muslims and about 500 that speak of their place in Hell. They are
from each period in Muhammad's life, scattered across 87 of the
Qur'an's 114 chapters. Almost one out of twelve verses in the Qur'an
says that Allah hates non-Muslims to the extent that he will torment
them for eternity in horrible ways. The Suras that make reference to
this comprise about 95% of the Qur'an's total volume. This is what
Islam is about. You should know better the religion of your masters.
> Will our Zionists oppress the rest of us, erect 'settlements' and
> apartheid walls? Otherwise it can't be another Palestine.
If you believe that the rest of us will blow up bus stations full of
civilians, will strap bombs to our kids and send them to murder our
Jews in offices , banks , pizzerias then you are dead wrong. We are
not Muslims and that's why we need to stop this Islamic pestilence
from infesting our countries. Everywhere you see a large number of
Muslims you see just filth , violence and terrorism. Muslims
contribute absolutely nothing to any country they soil with their
presence.
> > > You are obviously Jewish and your internal answer is "for Israel".
>
> > Was MARCO POLO "Jewish" who said:
> > "The law which their prophet Mohamed has given to muslims is that any
> > harm done to any one who does not accept their law and any
> > appropriation of his goods, is no sin at all." ?
>
> For Chrissake, Staten, there's lots of stuff like that in the Talmud.
> The religions are related quite closely.
Stick to the point , scum. You said "I am Jewish" , I said no -
because being anti-Islam does not constitute Jeweshness. This
assumption is demented and idiotic.
>
> > Was JOHN QUINCY ADAMS "Jewish" who said:
> > "The essence of mohammed's doctrine was violence and lust: to exalt
> > the brutal over the spiritual part of human nature." ?
>
> One questions whether he read the Old Testament. Was he Jefferson's
> Secretary of State? Haha.
Stick to the point, slimeball, what John Quncy Adams said about Islam,
not about the Old Testament. He was not Jewish.
>
> > Was Sir Winston Churchill "Jewish" who called Adolf Hitler's 'Mein
> > Kampf' "the new Quran of faith and war, turgid, verbose, shapeless,
> > but pregnant with its message".
>
> > Was Oriana Felaci "Jewish" who said : "Europe is no longer Europe,
> > it is 'Eurabia,' a colony of Islam, where the Islamic invasion does
> > not proceed only in a physical sense, but also in a mental and
> > cultural sense. Servility to the invaders has poisoned democracy, with
> > obvious consequences for the freedom of thought, and for the concept
> > itself of liberty."?
>
> You will find Ms. Oriana livid at the fashion in which you misrendered
> her name.
Read Oriana's message - Europe is a colony of Islam. Islam destroys
democracy and freedom. This brave woman, a great Italian , war
journalist, was sued by her own government for daring to say truth
about Islam and Islamization of Europe. This is our future. We
already live under soft sharia.
>
> > Is Geert Wilders "Jewish" who says that Islam is destroying Europe and
> > the Western civilization?
>
> No but he's wrong.
He is absolutely right. You are wrong because you are an Islamic whore
working for your 30 pieces of silver whoring for jihad.
Wilders:
Madam Speaker, there is no such thing as "moderate Islam". As Turkish
Prime Minister Erdogan said the other day, and I quote, "There is no
moderate or immoderate Islam. Islam is Islam and that's it". Islam is
in pursuit of dominance. It wishes to exact its imperialist agenda by
force on a worldwide scale (8:39). This is clear from European
history. Fortunately, the first Islamic invasion of Europe was stopped
at Poitiers in 732; the second in Vienna in 1683. Madam Speaker, let
us ensure that the third Islamic invasion, which is currently in full
spate, will be stopped too in spite of its insidious nature and
notwithstanding the fact that, in contrast to the 8th and 17th
centuries, it has no need for an Islamic army because the scared
"dhimmis" in the West, also those in Dutch politics, have left their
doors wide open to Islam and Muslims.
Apart from conquest, Madam Speaker, Islam is also bent on installing a
totally different form of law and order, namely Sharia law. This makes
Islam, apart from a religion for hundreds of millions of Muslims also,
and in particular, a political ideology (with political/constitutional/
Islamic basic values, etc). Islam is an ideology without any respect
for others; not for Christians, not for Jews, not for non-believers
and not for apostates. Islam aims to dominate, subject, kill and wage
war."
What a brave soul! What a vision! We all need to unite around
politicians like Geert and to put a complete stop to this medieval
bubonic plague infecting and destroying our countries! Go Wilders,
go! You are new Churchill of our time! God bless EU and US free of
black Islamic death!
> > Is Dannish psychiatrist Nicolai Sennels "Jewish" who said: "All of
> > Europe is currently struggling to integrate Muslims but this endeavor
> > seems to be impossible."?
>
> > Is Allen West (a great American , war hero, running for Congress)
> > "Jewish" when he commented on Islam and jihad :
> > "You want to dig up Charles Martel and ask him why him why he was
> > fighting the Muslim army at the Battle of Tours in 732? You want to
> > ask the Venetian fleet at Lepanto why they were fighting a Muslim
> > fleet in 1571? You want to ask...the Germanic and Austrian knights why
> > they were fighting at the gates of Vienna in 1683? You want to ask
> > people what happened at Constantinople and why today it is called
> > Istanbul because they lost that fight in 1453? You need to get into
> > the Koran...and understand their precepts. This is not a perversion.
> > They are doing exactly what this book says."
>
> > Are SIOA , SIOE, EDL, SIOD activists against Islamization of America
> > and Europe are full of Jews who speak up against Muslim barbaric
> > culture of ignorance, poverty, misogyny, and violence that they are
> > attempting to inflict this culture on a largely Enlightened West?
>
> > NO! They are not "Jewish"! You insult all people in the world who are
> > fed up with Islam by presenting that their struggle against this world
> > cancer is only in the interest of Jews.
>
> Bullshit. Not remotely guilty on any count. What you refuse to take
> into account is that what you call for CAN'T BE DONE.
I call for stopping Islamization of Europe and America. It CAN BE
DONE , you sleazy back-stubbing, jihadi whore! We return our freedom
back!
>
> > I can tell you more. When the EDL tried to organize mass protests in
> > London against advancing Islamic supremacism destroying English
> > culture and in support of Israel , no one of the London's Jews showed
> > up to participate. But some Jewish organizations like JC.com, even
> > were running a piece urging Jews not to support the SIOE and EDL.
> > These Jewish idiots obviously badly miss the tens of thousands of
> > Muslims calling for their death across the UK and Europe back in
> > January.
>
> You're a movement fanatic. You can't be relied upon to solve anything.
> You haven't the common sense God gave a fence post.
What I said is true - Jews are not the leaders in stopping the
world's pestilence -Islam. People like Wilders, West, Fellaci , ex-
Muslims like Wafa Sultan or Ibn Warraq certainly are. Your stupid
premise that only Jews and Zionist are interested in opposing Islam is
busted again.
>
> > Likewise. Most of 75-80% of American Jews voting for libs and Obama
> > couldn't give a fuck about Islam or Israel. 50% of American Jewish
> > students expressed their views that the world would be much better
> > without Israel.
>
> The world would be much better if Israel quit making trouble for the
> rest of us.
Familiar tune . Hitler told the world the same about Jews in 1933.
>I do think that Israel is one of the greatest threats to
> world peace.
You say so because you are a moral coward and a hypocrite. You are
perfectly aware (if you are not a complete cretin) that you can say
any the most incredible lies about Israel and can safely get away with
it. But you cannot tell the same about Islam. I bet you , like our
corrupt politicians , know that Islam is the world's prime aggressor.
Hardly you can find a place on this planet where Islam wouldn't be
involved. You can see Jihad and terrorist attacks in: Dagestan,
Russia, Beslan, Bangladesh, Somalia, China, Ethiopia, Indonesia,
Sudan, Turkey, Algeria,Chechnya, Philippines and many other parts of
the world . And yet, you hypocritical frauds put everything upside
down and call tiny Israel "the greatest thread to world peace" but
Islam with all its daily hundreds terrorist attacks across the
world , with all its slavery, genocide, incredible oppression of
women and hatred against all non-Muslims , you call it "the religion
of peace" .
On 9/11 thousands of our fellow Americans died. But when you fucking
dhimmis surrender to Islamic terror and intimidation, our freedom
dies. For everyone. And the bell begins to ring. You killing our
freedom to please Islam, you disgusting cowards and hypocrites!
coaste...@yahoo.com
> ....................................................bullshit, arsehole
> iconoclast, we're to believe you give a tinkers damn about how many
> muzzie/wogs the Israeli's have sent to hell, nobody gives a damn about
> the Palestinians including their brother mizzie/wog/ragheads - you use
> the muzzie wogs to put it to the Jews, plain & simple!
I don't think about you, NEMO. You're a lazy, one-note weakling. It''s
the Reagan principle. If you've seen one NEMO post, you've seen them
all.
>
> ......................all your so called intellectual musings are just
> so much "farts", come out & say you hate the Jews because you're a
> loser, you didn't answer before & I don't expect it now.
And, like most of the Zionist apologists here you make it easy for me.
What's to be said to an anus-fixated name-caller? Not much that I can
think of. Maybe you can make some suggestions.
> .............................you're a loser & you blame the Jews, but
> you're still a loser!
You can always suppress your timidity and enter the threads
systematically on their merits. That's the only way you can become a
"winner" here. Do you think you were born one? Or that it's an
entitlement? Probably, but that's your problem. It's not going to help
you deal with me.
The bottom line is that I don't often write about Jews per se. I have
no interest in that subject and certainly would not be here were the
US not in deep trouble. If Obama can achieve a settlement, I'll be
gone from this unpleasant place in a flash. You should understand that
there are tens of thousands of people working in this movement to to
extricate the country from the illegal behavior of the Lobby and the
unhealthy embrace of the Zionist fanatic class in Israel. You don't
want us to be doing that.
You don't like what I do write because it's mostly about policy, both
domestic and foreign, as it relates to Israel.. We differ. You support
Israel's criminality. You do it blatantly in this post on explicit
racist grounds. No, you weren't born a winner. I oppose Israel's
criminality on principle and don't want my country to be identified
with it. I say that we need to change our relationship with Israel and
if she won't conform to our interests, to terminate it. I don't keep
that secret. You might try to defeat that position in argument but the
chances are nil. There isn't a Zionist here who has been willing to
debate the American interest as it relates to our relationship with
Israel.
I write about domestic problems as they relate to international
relations. I express opinions about the American interest in the
Middle East and about reform. And, of course I criticize Israeli
crimes. The nature of our relationship with her and the nature of her
policies are at the center of the problems I'm interested in. They
endanger our Republic. So, this is politics. It's not about "Jews."
What I do here is typical of what people who are interested in
politics do. Your shtick, however, is to shut down talk about
political subjects which you know can't bear the light of day. You
can't do it. It's a lost cause. You can not dominate even these little
newsgroups. You haven't nearly the requisite horsepower to even make
an impact.
>
> Yup!
Typical.
staten
wrote:
> On May 9, 12:23 am, staten <state...@lycos.com> wrote:
>
> > *Foolish. The movement is new, three or four decades for the most
> > part.
> > *It remains small but spectacular.
>
> > New movement?
>
> Salafism, yes. And it can wither away just as it arose.
>
> Let's see how "new" it is and why Muslims keep murdering
>
> > infidels during "three or four last decades". You surely trying to
> > convince us that Muslims are very "upset" by the creation of the state
> > of Israel.
>
> You mentioned Salafism with a whiff of nasty sarcasm. If you do such a
> thing you should acquaint yourself about it first. And yes, the
> imposition of Israel in Palestine has offended a lot of Muslims.
Tell me what is not “offend” Muslims. It's hard to find such things.
The list of things Muslims hate and feel “offended” :
Flags
Buildings
Christians
Jews
Hindus/Buddhist's/other Religions
The Dalai Lama, Baha'i, Pagans, Zoroastrians, Faith Healers, Hindu
Temples.
Cartoons
Movies/TV/Theater/Radio
Food
Music
Humor/Satire
Animals
Public Figures
Women
Books/Publications and writers
Art/Artists
Grooming
Clothing
Airport security
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Things that are not offensive to Muslims are :
Honor Killings
The rape of Infidel Women
Whipping the Victims of Rape
the slaughter of nearly 3000 innocent people in America
15,270 deadly terrorist attacks committed since 9/11 in the name of
Allah
Hanging gays simply because they are gay
Anti-Jewish Cartoons
Killing Christians simply because they are Christians.
Killing Jews because they are Jews
Beating their wives
Killing their daughters if daughters wear non-Muslim clothes.
Killing their daughters if daughters have non-Muslim boyfriends
Killing their wives if they asks for a divorce
Female genital mutilation
Goat and camel fucking
------------------------------------------
> > OK, let's go to evidences why Israel "upset" so much pious Muslims
> > who lived in peace and tranquility with infidels before this
> > "barbaric" state was created by the "wicked" Zionists in 1948:
>
> > Before 18 century millions and millions of infidels were murdered by
> > advancing Islam from Sauidi deserts to India where jihad killed 80
> > million Hindus, not because of Israel
>
> So, we should conquer the muslim world? Do you see a connection I'm
> missing?
You said Muslim violence is “a new” . But history says it is 1400
years old. You are lying.
>
>
> > From 1843 to 1846 10,000 Assyrian Christians including women and
> > children were massacred by the Muslims, not because of Israel
>
> Really? Not because of Israel?
Israel was created in 1948. Are you full of camel urine your Muslim
friends delivered to you from the Mid East?
>
> > From 1894 to 1896 Muslims killed 1,5 millions Armenian
> > Christians, not because of Israel.
>
> Do you have your dates right?
Absolutely.
The first Armenian Massacres of 1894-1897
1894 AD: Christians in Armenia massacred.
1895 AD: Christians in Armenia massacred.
1896 AD: Christians in Armenia massacred. During 1894 -1896 some
250,000 Christians were murdered in Armenia.
1904 AD: Christians in Armenia massacred.
1909 AD: Christians in Armenia massacred - some 30,000.
1915 AD: The terrible massacres in Armenia - some 1,2 MILLION
Christians murdered. And parallel to all the murdering during all
Muslim massacres there were destruction, stealing, rape and slave
taking. Just during the 1915 massacres at least 80,000 Christian
Armenian girls and young women ended in Muslim harems, mainly in
Turkey.
So mass murdering 1,5 million Armenians serves for you as a “Muslim
resistance” . Question . Why do you love so much mass murderers,
rapists, thieves? Have your parents or grandparents been professional
criminals?
> THEREFORE, Israel is never responsible for Muslim Resistance and
> violence, AND she gets the West Bank.-
What Israel has in common with murdering 80 million Hindus or 1,5
savagely murdered Armenians?
What kind of logic do you use when whitewashing Islam?
staten
wrote:
> On May 8, 11:41 pm, staten <state...@lycos.com> wrote:
>
> > according to surveys released in Indonesia alone where one in 10
> > Indonesian Muslims support violent jihad. But let's take your
> > apologist, dhimmi number and do quick math:
>
> > 1,5 billion Muslims.
>
> The most commonly seen number is 1.3 bn.
>
>> 1% for jihad . It comes up with 15,000,000
> No, 13,000,000, and they are people who don't object to Jihad, not
> practitioners which is of necessity a much smaller number.
That's your wishful thinking and customary apology for jihad. Jihad
cannot exist without a broad moral and financial support . Besides how
do you know they are not “practitioners” if you even cannot
differentiate who is who in the West? Sayyid Qutb , studied at
Colorado State University; worked in Wilson Teachers' College in
Washington, D.C. , as well as in Stanford University.
Zawahiri has a mater’s degree in surgery. Osama has a degree in civil
engineering. Mohammad Atta studied architecture at Cairo University,
and at the Technical University of Hamburg. A terror ringleader in
London doctors’ plot was a brilliant neurologist; his cronies in
terror were well paid doctors working in prestigious London’s
hospitals. Education means nothing for Muslims. No matter how many
college degrees and awards they possess , they still are as
barbaric ,backward, savage and violent as their illiterate brethren
living in caves and fucking goats in deserts if all they follow the
barbaric teaching of the Koran.
> Additionally, they live on the other side of the world and are
> impoverished, uneducated people for the most part. Only educated
> intellectuals get to the US from the Muslim World.
Exactly. Like Mohammad Atta and all those wonderful “educated”
Muslims mentioned above.
>It's impossible for
> working or peasant class people to get here much less to get in. The
> class which does is quite tiny and they are investigated individually
> with care. Most of them come as students. Accordingly, you terrorist
> estimate is fantastically inflated.
Nope. You are lying , dissembling and making apologies again, scum
artist working for jihad. .
A survey in Indonesia revealed a couple of years ago that around one
in 10 Indonesian Muslims support jihad and justify bomb attacks on
Bali as “defending the faith”
The Indonesian Survey Institute:
“Jihad that has been understood partially and practiced with violence
is justified by around one in 10 Indonesian Muslims,”
Indonesia is the world’s fourth most populous country, with 220
million people, 85 percent of whom follow Islam, giving the Asian
archipelago the largest Muslim population of any nation in the world.
“They approved the bombings conducted … in Bali with the excuse of
defending Islam,” it added, saying the percentage of such support “is
very significant.”
Now, do some quick math again:
220 million Indonesians.
85 percent of them Muslim.
1 in 10 of those Muslims support suicide bombings to “defend their
faith.” (and those only those who are willing to participate in
polls)
Altogether , 19 million Muslims for violent jihad in “moderate”
Indonesia alone.
Add those jihadi-endorsing and sharia-embracing masses to these
Muslims polled in Britain in :
13% of British Muslims think that the four men who carried out the
London Tube and bus bombings of July 7 2005 should be regarded as
“martyrs”
7% agree that suicide attacks on civilians in the UK can be justified
in some circumstances, rising to 16 per cent for a military target
16% of British Muslims say that while the attacks may have been
wrong,
the cause was right
16% would be “indifferent” if a family member decided to join al-
Qaeda
and two per cent would be proud
And toss in these European Muslims polled by Pew :
Support for suicide Bombings
French Muslims 16%
Spanish Muslims 16%
British Muslims 15%
German Muslims 7%
Jordan 29%
Egypt 28%
Turkey 17%
Pakistan 14%
Indonesia 10%
Nigerian Muslims 46%
.
All in all , millions and millions of walking Muslim bombs
impatiently waiting to blow infidels for the sake of getting
unlimited sex with virgins in heaven are living among us and dreaming
to repeat “heroic deeds” of Mohammad and his “educated” friends are
waiting for their right time in their wonderful Islamdom.
Continue lying, denying and whitewashing Islam, if it makes you
happy. But don't forget that one day they blow up your sorry ass
too. It doesn't matter how hard you whoring for jihad . To them you
are still an infidel marked for hacking to death, unless you convert
to Islam . (If you haven't do it already) If so, then Congrats! Now
you have become a decorated piece of human filth.
dsha...@yahoo.com
wrote:
> Plainolamerican said:
>
> > > their war - their problem
>
> > So, it's not our problem if Israel decides to nuke a few ragheads,
> > right?
> > Deborah
>
> Israel's nukes are going to be dismantled and destroyed.
Didn't this numbfuck already post about seven responses to this post?
> This makes my day.
Whatever floats your boat.
>How 'bout you, Deb? Nuking ragheads? Is that the
> next step? Naaw, I don't think so.
Operative phrase: H "don't think" so. H don't think, period.
Deborah
dsha...@yahoo.com
wrote:
> TDNY said:
> No country should have nuclear weapons.
> And HW said:
> > >Agreed.
Awwww. Ain't that sweet.
> > >That's the long term American policy goal and it's being
> > >seriously worked on by the Obama Administration.
Not bloody likely. The Obama Administration is a tad more pragmatic
than pie-in-the-sky idiots.
> Do you believe that nuclear weapons are meant to deter terrorism? One
> thing's sure. A country which thinks that way shouldn't have them.
Gee whiz, and maybe a country which has guys who run around robbing
banks and stabbing people should become a police state.
> You worry about being safe over here. To accomplish that the only
> thing you suggest is more aggressive pugnacity over there. That's not
> smart. But getting a handle on Israeli aggression against their
> Palestinian neighbors and striking a deal with the Iranians is.
BWAHAHAHA!!!!!
Hunter Watson's motto: Make America safe: Kiss Iranian ass, and kill
the Jews of Israel.
Deborah
dsha...@yahoo.com
> "staten" <state...@lycos.com> wrote in message
>
> news:58785ec5-b5f1-47d0...@b7g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...> >Agreed. That's the long term American policy goal and it's being
> >seriously worked on by the Obama Administration.
>
> long term American policy goal along with the best national
> defense strategy is:Let's hope their bombs don't work!
>
> telling Americans not to "jump to conclusions" but keep respecting
> Islam - "the religion of peace"
>
>
> fingers-crossed strategy supported by a new great plan - "Let's Make
> Them Love Us By Showering Them With Billions!". Forget about nuclear
> Muslims, legally admitted to the U.S. and , murdered 3,000 Americans
> men in America who have been charged, convicted, or sentenced on
> being seriously worked" on our safety . Let's cross our fingers and
> hope their bombs don't work! Sleep tight America! The Obama
> Administration is guarding us!
>
> roflmao
You have to think like Hunter Watson. Hunter has already worked out a
Plan of Action for Making America Safe. Hunter's strategy for ensuring
American safety is: Kiss Iranian ass, send Pallies more $$$billions,
and kill the Jews of Israel. Probably kill the Jews of America, too,
or at least impose something like the May Laws, or the Nuremberg Laws,
or the pertinent provisions of the Fourth Lateran Council; or, more
like, a three-fer combo.
Great strategy, eh?
Deborah
dsha...@yahoo.com
> > With Torres, anything could be considered an insult.
>
> She's light years ahead of all toadies for the Israel Lobby and
> Israel's current right-wing drang nach Osten types.
> ***
>
> She's a fool. I'm not suprised you think she's brilliant.
lol
Of COURSE Hunter thinks Torres is brilliant. Were you around when
Torres displayed her brilliance by posting, several times, that the
author of 1948: The First Israelis was Ben Gurion -- "Ben" being DBG's
middle name? Then there were Torres's additional gems -- at least 12
of them -- where she repeatedly posted that Yitzhak Rabin was the
leader of the Stern Gang.
There are other gems, all of which would serve only to make Herr
Watson think Torres, as you noted, a world class genius.
Deborah
>
>
> > ****
> > New political arrangements are
> > the primary source of the decline of traditional nation state warfare.
> > ***
>
> > That's like saying 'up' is 'up'.
>
> You can't think of anything to say. What I'm telling you hasn't
> occurred to you before.
> ***
>
> Stating the obvious as if it's insightful is a common trait of the stupid.
>
>
>
>
>
> > ***
> > Nukes kept things quiet when needed opposite totalitarian
> > dictatorships in the 20th Century, but movements like the European
> > Union and NATO and events like the breakup of the Soviet Union and the
> > relative liberalization of China have taken their place. Nuclear
> > deterrence is too dangerous to use. It is obsolete. The incredible
> > lethality of "conventional" weapons in this era is also an effective
> > replacement deterrent. As far as nukes are concerned they pose by far
> > the greatest threat if they leak into the hands of terrorists. That's
> > America's number one security threat as we speak. Next step Pakistan
> > and India. That's more dangerous than North Korea. WHY? The Jihad
> > movement which is destabilizing Pakistan has much of its origins in
> > the inflamatory conduct of Israel in which we are complicit. That we
> > should be running the risk of New York City being incinerated by a
> > nuke in a container ship rather than "pressuring" Israel is insane.
> > ****
>
> > The Jihad movement destabilizing Pakistan has it's origins in Salafism,
> > not
> > Israel's conduct.
>
> People inclined to terroristic jihadism comprise some 1% of Muslims
> world-wide. Will you condemn all Germans for the crimes of the SS or
> the Gestapo? Yes, oh well, I expected that.
> ****
>
> Who condemned all muslims for the crimes of Islamic terrorists?
>
> Israel is just a scapegoat the Jihadists use to convince
>
> > gullible anti-semites in the west that their ideology isn't really
> > responsible for their violence.
>
> Israel, unfortunately, is a criminal state judged by the conduct of
> it's political elite over the last sixty or more years.
> ***
>
> Like I said, "gullible anti-semites...."
>
> It's a false complaint, based on
>
> > misperceptions, outright falsehoods, and given credence only by the
> > ignorant.
>
> It is amazing that you absolve Israel of all her crimes and expect to
> get away with it.
> ***
>
> Focus Hunter, Jihadism doesn't have much of it's origins in Israel's
> conduct. Plain fact.
>
> If Israel never existed Salafists would still hate you, and they
>
> > would still be craving the bomb to kill more infidels.
>
> Foolish. The movement is new, three or four decades for the most part.
> It remains small but spectacular.
> ***
>
> Actually Salafism has been around for hundreds of years. Read up on it and
> become less ignorant.
>
> I don't know what you
>
> > mean by 'next step Pakistan and India'. India is a relatively modern
> > country
> > ideologically speaking, and is of no concern regarding terrorists and
> > nuclear weapons.
>
> Come on, open your mind. India and Pakistan have been at daggers'
> points since 1948. The nuclear free zone technique is perfect for
> them. If Pakistan is in fact more dangerous as a proliferator it makes
> no difference what India is like if we can get them both disarmed.
> Qualitative political judgments don't make sense when the ultimate
> goal is a global nuclear free zone.
> ***
>
> Right now nukes on both sides are keeping people alive in the Pakistan/India
> conflict. And they aren't in the ME anyway.
>
> However I am glad to see you are beginning to understand
>
> > why Iran can't be allowed to have the bomb. Given Iran has been found to
> > be
> > in violation of their NPT obligations I suspect you too support stronger
> > sanctions and greater scrutiny of that country.
>
> You certainly are stubborn about your delusions. And equally stubborn
> in your effort to mislead the readership about the conversation we had
> about Ron Paul's statement. There have been no judicial findings of
> an NPT violation against Iran.
> ***
>
> There doesn't need to be - the IAEA is the sole body tasked with verifying a
> country has been living up to it's obligations, and they have made their
> statement.
>
> ***
> And no, I don't support any sanctions
> against Iran.
> ***
>
> Then you're one step closer to nukes in the hands of terrorists, what you
> just described as 'the greatest threat'.
>
> ***
> I would suspend them until the end of the negotiations
> and then dismiss them if successful. Carrots and sticks. I support
> the Middle East Nuclear Free Zone. And, for what it's worth, I
> consider Israel to be a greater danger to world peace than Iran.
> ***
>
> Of course you do, to anti-semites like yourself Israel is always the bad
> guy. It's a tired refrain based on ignorance and gullibility.
dsha...@yahoo.com
> > > >> Plainolamerican said:
> > > >>> > their war - their problem
> > > >>> So, it's not our problem if Israel decides to nuke a few ragheads,
> > > >>> right?
> > > >>> Deborah
> > > >> Israel's nukes are going to be dismantled and destroyed.
And the heads of the Iranian government are going to go to Jerusalem,
join hands with Israel's leaders, and sing Kumbaya together, before a
celebratory marshmallow and weenie roast.
> > ****
> > New political arrangements are
> > the primary source of the decline of traditional nation state warfare.
> > ***
>
> > That's like saying 'up' is 'up'.
>
> You can't think of anything to say. What I'm telling you hasn't
> occurred to you before.
Very likely the possibility of new political arrangements effecting
change has no more occurred to the Count than the possibility of the
sun rising in the east.
> > Israel is just a scapegoat the Jihadists use to convince
> > gullible anti-semites in the west that their ideology isn't really
> > responsible for their violence.
>
> Israel, unfortunately, is a criminal state judged by the conduct of
> it's political elite over the last sixty or more years.
Israel is just a scapegoat Jihadists and terrorist-symps/Communist
propagandists like Hunter Watson use to convince gullible anti-
semites in the west that their ideology isn't really responsible for
their violence.
> You certainly are stubborn about your delusions. And equally stubborn
> in your effort to mislead the readership
Not nearly as stubborn as Hunter Watson, and nowhere near as
contemptuous of the intelligence of "the readership" as Hunter Watson
is.
Deborah
CUNTICA
.......................you're preaching to Neo-Nazi wannabes -
national & international politics - it's a wonder these moops know
what day of the week it is let alone how to open a door & face the
real world
.........................take a hike, mook, you're nothing but a
poseur!
Yup!
tdny
There is no country that is need of nuclear weapons.
None, period.
Nuclear weapons can destroy the entire world.
What do some people think, that if they drop a nuclear bomb on one part
of the earth, they are going to stay safe in their beds, the nuclear cloud,
won't get them?
American Eagle
You are an idiot. Mutually assured destruction has worked in keeping the
world into breaking into another World war. There will always be the
strong Governments that wish to invade and take over weak nations.
There is always religious differences that has, can and will create
massive wars if the fear of mutual destruction did not exist. Nukes
prolong the time of our existence before eventually some despot fires
the first nuke that triggers the conflagration that purifies the planet
of its foolish lifeforms.
>
>
coaste...@yahoo.com
Read the Mearsheimer transcript. It looks as though the kissing is
going to be done by Israelis and the kissees will be Palestinian. It
will take ten or fifteen years.
Bolt Upright
this Shoveari cannibal, this is over the top.
Where did Hunter *ever* advocate killing anyone?
staten
wrote:
> On May 9, 9:21 pm, "Count 1" <omnipitus2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:d58af5e6-946e-48b7...@a2g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
> > On May 9, 12:23 am, staten <state...@lycos.com> wrote:
>
> > > On May 7, 1:50 am, "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com>
> > > wrote:
>
> > > > On May 6, 9:42 pm, "Count 1" <omnipitus2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > If Israel never existed Salafists would still hate you, and they
> > > > would still be craving the bomb to kill more infidels.
>
> > This is the Hasbara argument. It's purpose is to convince Americans
> > the Israel is fighting OUR war against Islam. That's false. Israel is
> > not fighting our war. We have no interest in the Golan and the West
> > Bank. Less than none in fact.
> > ***
>
> > Nope. This is the fact, Salafism - which is much older than you know -
> > creates Islam as the supreme ideology to be imposed no matter what the
> > means.
>
> Salafist jihadism
> From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> Salafist jihadism (also Salafi jihadism) is a school of thought of
> Salafi Muslims who support violent jihad. The term was coined by
> scholar Gilles Kepel[1][2] to describe Salafi who began developing an
> interest in violent jihad during the mid-1990s. Practitioners are
> often referred to as Salafi jihadis or Salafi jihadists. Journalist
> Bruce Livesey estimates Salafi jihadists constitute less than 1
> percent of the world's 1.4 billion Muslims (c. 10 million). [1]
Tell that to Sunnis and Shias. They will laugh their asses out reading
your sanitized, whitewashed apology. They are as barbaric, savage
and jihad infected as Salafi.
Read what they say in their own words why they are violent:
Afghanistan
"In the name of Allah the Avenger, I swear on the holy book to perform
my sacred duty as a soldier of Islam in this Jihad to restore to this
world the light of divine justice... Allah demands no less. For to
die in the cause is to be sent immediately to paradise."
A Taliban official, explaining why the group is violent.
Algeria
“But the coming Islamic caliphate country will not rise except at the
hands of the fighting sect who raises the flag of Allah and Jihad.”
Statement from the Salafi terrorist group, one of several
fundamentalist cells responsible for the slaughter of 150,000 men
women and children in the 1990’s.
Chechnya
“True resistance is helped by Allah the Supreme and the battles are
for His just cause”
Abu Hafs, Mujahideen and one of the region’s most prolific killer
Egypt
"Allah is our objective, the Quran is our Constitution, the Prophet is
our leader, Jihad is our way, and death for the sake of Allah is the
highest of our aspirations."
Credo of the Muslim Brotherhood, which has spawned attacks and
numerous subsidiary terrorist organizations
India (Kashmir)
“Democracy is among the menaces we inherited from an alien
government. It is part of the system we are fighting against… It is
not possible to work within a democracy and establish an Islamic
system… If Allah gives us a chance, we will try to bring in the pure
concept of an Islamic Caliphate.''
"The notion of the sovereignty of the people is anti-Islamic. Only
Allah is sovereign.''
Hafiz Mohammad Saeed, the leader of the Lashkar-e-Toiba terrorist
organization.
Iran
“Those who know nothing of Islam pretend that Islam counsels against
war. Those who say this are witless. Islam says: 'Kill all the
unbelievers just as they would kill you all! Kill them, put them to
the sword and scatter their armies.'”
The Ayatollah Khomeini
Indonesia
“Keep on fighting for the application of Islamic law. If this state
and nation wants to become great, safe, and at peace then it has to
return to Islam one hundred percent without bargaining. If not, then
it will be destroyed.”
Abu Bakar Bashir, spiritual leader of the Indonesian Mujahideen
Iraq (Sunni)
“There is no doubt that Allah commanded us to strike the Kuffar
(unbelievers), kill them, and fight them by all means necessary to
achieve the goal. The servants of Allah who perform Jihad to elevate
the word (laws) of Allah, are permitted to use any and all means
necessary to strike the active unbeliever combatants for the purpose
of killing them, snatch their souls from their body, cleanse the earth
from their abomination, and lift their trial and persecution of the
servants of Allah. The goal must be pursued even if the means to
accomplish it affect both the intended active fighters and unintended
passive ones such as women, children and any other passive category
specified by our jurisprudence.”
Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, Sunni terrorist known for cutting captives’
throats
Iraq (Shia)
“My motivation is a sense of duty toward my religious faith to fight
against any hostile enemy of Islam.”
Abu Deraa, Shitte terrorist known for drilling into captive’s heads
Israel
“The Islamic Resistance Movement: Islam is its way. It is from Islam
that it derives its ideas, concepts, and perceptions concerning the
universe, life, and man, and it refers to Islam's judgment in all its
actions. It is from Islam that it seeks direction so as to guide its
steps. “
The covenant of the bloody Hamas terrorist organization (Islamic
Resistance Movement)
Jordan
“Terrorism is a badge of honour on our chests until Judgement Day. In
the name of Allah, we’re pursuing the path of jihad until we uproot
you, exterminate your state until the rule of the king vanishes. We
follow the steps of the Prophet (Muhammad)... Allah is our Lord; you
have none."
Hassan al-Smeik, leader of the cell that plotted a chemical weapons
attack intended to kill 80,000 Jordanians
Lebanon
“We are… linked to the Muslims of the whole world by the solid
doctrinal and religious connection of Islam, whose message God wanted
to be fulfilled by the Seal of the Prophets, i.e., Muhammad”
From the charter of the Hezbollah terrorist group, which has
kidnapped, tortured and killed numerous non-Muslims.
Pakistan
"I will go back to wage jihad. I pray Allah fulfils my desire of
embracing martyrdom next time,"
Hizbul Mujahideen cadre, when asked why he kills the Indian people
The Philippines
“We may be small in number, but we have plenty fighting with us--the
angels and the hand of Allah. We dream of an entire Islamic world,
and we will achieve it. Allah is with us."
Abu Sayyaf terrorist group leader, Khadaffy Janjalani, responsible for
church bombings and beheadings.
Saudi Arabia
"One of the greatest virtues in Islam is jihad for the sake of God.
Ramadan is the month of jihad and battles, and most Muslim battles
took place during the blessed month. This is your season, o people of
jihad. Jihad during the fasting month of Ramadan has a great taste --
for what better way to break your fast than to kill infidels and
relish the sound of the weeping of the despicable tyrants and
infidels."
Saudi-based terrorist magazine, al-Jihad
Somalia
"And your brothers of the Mujahideen Movement are on their way, going
forth in Jihad against the occupiers and disbelievers so that the word
of Allah is the highest and there is no more fitnah on earth and the
religion is solely for Allah."
Deadly Somali terrorist group calling itself, Youth Islamic Movement
Spain
"Allah, may he be praised, said… ‘Kill them wherever you find them,
and drive them out from where they have driven you out; for internal
strife [Fitna] is worse than killing.’"
The Qur’anic verse quoted by the Abu Hafs Al-Masri Brigades in
explaining the murder of 202 Madrid train commuters
Sudan
"To Fight and Conquer. Death in the name of Allah."
The unit logo of the Janjaweed militia, responsible for “cleansing”
Darfur of African people along with the rape of thousands of women.
"Long live the Mujahideen"
Sudanese President, Omar al-Bahir, at a meeting of Janjaweed fighters.
“Jihad is a duty.”
The constitution of the Islamic Republic of Sudan
Syria
“Our hero [the suicide bomber] believed in Allah and died while
fighting for Allah”
Islamic Jihad leader, Abu Ayman
Thailand
“….Martyrs, how glorious we will be if we fall as warriors of our
land. When Martyrs are killed, they are not dead but alive next to
Allah. They will watch and listen to every piece of news to see if
their children will follow in their footsteps….”
Berjihad di Pattani, “calls for a holy war to liberate Pattani from
‘colonists’. It is liberal in employing metaphoric references and
verses from the Quran. ...a significant and clear articulation of the
radical religious dimension of the conflict in south Thailand used
within the context of Malay-Muslim resentment of the central
government. It engages in Takdir (the labeling of fellow Muslims as
infidels) and makes direct calls for Martyrs to attack fellow Muslims
perceived to be collaborating with the “occupation”, or the Jahili
(people of the ignorance). It views the practice of religious
obligations of these “hypocrite” Muslims as a disguise hiding hearts
filled with fury and hatred against Islam…”
Turkey
“The Koran says: ‘Fight them until evil disappears and all religion
becomes Allah's [religion].' The suicide activists who blow
themselves up are carrying out the Koran's commandment.’"
Ali Osman Zor, Great East Islamic Raiders Front terrorist organization
United Kingdom
“Our religion is Islam - obedience to the one true God, Allah, and
following the footsteps of the final prophet and messenger Muhammad...
This is how our ethical stances are dictated. “
Mohammad Sidique Khan, London subway bomber, explaining his motives on
a pre-recorded video tape.
United States
"I did not act out of hatred for Americans, but love for Allah
instead. I live only to serve Allah by obeying all of Allah’s
commandments, of which I am aware by reading and learning the contents
of the Koran.”
Mohammed Reza Taheri-Azar, explaining (in his words) “reasons for
premeditating and attempting to murder citizens and residents of the
United States of America.” He also quoted 141 verses from the Qur'an.
Uzbekistan
"We have declared a jihad to create a religious government in
Uzbekistan”
Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan leader, Tahir Yuldeshev
September 11th Attacks
"We killed them outside their land, praise be to Allah. Today, we kill
them in the midst of their own home.
O Allah, revive an entire nation by our deaths. O Allah, I sacrifice
myself for your sake, accept me as a martyr. O Allah, I sacrifice
myself for your sake, accept me as a martyr. O Allah, I sacrifice
myself for your sake, accept me as a martyr.
To the Garden of Eden, our first house. We shall meet in the eternal
Paradise with the prophets, honest people, martyrs and righteous
people. They are the best of companions. Praise be to Allah. Allah's
peace, mercy and blessings be upon you. "
Ahmad al-Haznawi, Flight 93 Hijacker
"Those 19 brothers who left us made efforts and offered their lives
for the cause of Allah. Allah has favored them with this conquest,
which we are enjoying now"
Ayman al-Zawahiri, al-Qaeda's Number Two, explaining the motives for
the plot.
"Be cheerful, for you have only moments between you and your eternity,
after which a happy and satisfying life begins...
"Remember: it is a raid for the sake of Allah. Recite the prayer. As
you take the seat, recite the prayer. Mention Allah a lot. When the
hijacking begins, "Shout Allah is great because this shout strikes
terrors in the hearts of the infidels
"And the moment of death should be accompanied by the basic statement
of belief recited by all Muslims at the call to prayer. Seconds
before the target, your last words should be, 'there is no god but
Allah. Mohammed is his messenger!."
Written instructions to the hijackers.
"Allahu Akbar! Allahu Akbar! Allahu Akbar!"
Last words from the cockpit of Flight 93.
****************************************************************************
> Iraq into a ...
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
staten
>One of bin Laden's central complaints against us was our uncritical enabling of
>Israel in the oppression of the Palestinians. It's also connected with
>Israel's efforts to exert hegemony in the region by bullying and
>implicit nuclear threats. There's plenty of connection with Israel.
Again the sharia enforcer employs his taqiya, lies and deception
hoping to fool everybody to advance Islam.
In his fatwa Jihad Against Jews and Crusaders of 1998 the Osama's
central idea was "occupying the holy lands of Islam ". There is no
place in his rant indicating that his fatwa is a key point about
"opressing palestinians" or "israeli's hegemony in the region by
bullying and implicit nuclear threats."
You made it up , bastard. Read the fatwa below . Your taqiya is
busted again.
Fatwa:
Jihad Against Jews and Crusaders
World Islamic Front Statement
23 February 1998
Shaykh Usamah Bin-Muhammad Bin-Ladin
Ayman al-Zawahiri, amir of the Jihad Group in Egypt
Abu-Yasir Rifa'i Ahmad Taha, Egyptian Islamic Group
Shaykh Mir Hamzah, secretary of the Jamiat-ul-Ulema-e-Pakistan
Fazlur Rahman, amir of the Jihad Movement in Bangladesh
Praise be to Allah, who revealed the Book, controls the clouds,
defeats factionalism, and says in His Book: "But when the forbidden
months are past, then fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them,
seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every
stratagem (of war)"; and peace be upon our Prophet, Muhammad
Bin-'Abdallah, who said: I have been sent with the sword between my
hands to ensure that no one but Allah is worshipped, Allah who put my
livelihood under the shadow of my spear and who inflicts humiliation
and scorn on those who disobey my orders.
The Arabian Peninsula has never -- since Allah made it flat, created
its desert, and encircled it with seas -- been stormed by any forces
like the crusader armies spreading in it like locusts, eating its
riches and wiping out its plantations. All this is happening at a time
in which nations are attacking Muslims like people fighting over a
plate of food. In the light of the grave situation and the lack of
support, we and you are obliged to discuss current events, and we
should all agree on how to settle the matter.
No one argues today about three facts that are known to everyone; we
will list them, in order to remind everyone:
First, for over seven years the United States has been occupying the
lands of Islam in the holiest of places, the Arabian Peninsula,
plundering its riches, dictating to its rulers, humiliating its
people, terrorizing its neighbors, and turning its bases in the
Peninsula into a spearhead through which to fight the neighboring
Muslim peoples.
If some people have in the past argued about the fact of the
occupation, all the people of the Peninsula have now acknowledged it.
The best proof of this is the Americans' continuing aggression against
the Iraqi people using the Peninsula as a staging post, even though
all its rulers are against their territories being used to that end,
but they are helpless.
Second, despite the great devastation inflicted on the Iraqi people by
the crusader-Zionist alliance, and despite the huge number of those
killed, which has exceeded 1 million... despite all this, the
Americans are once against trying to repeat the horrific massacres, as
though they are not content with the protracted blockade imposed after
the ferocious war or the fragmentation and devastation.
So here they come to annihilate what is left of this people and to
humiliate their Muslim neighbors.
Third, if the Americans' aims behind these wars are religious and
economic, the aim is also to serve the Jews' petty state and divert
attention from its occupation of Jerusalem and murder of Muslims
there. The best proof of this is their eagerness to destroy Iraq, the
strongest neighboring Arab state, and their endeavor to fragment all
the states of the region such as Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and Sudan
into paper statelets and through their disunion and weakness to
guarantee Israel's survival and the continuation of the brutal crusade
occupation of the Peninsula.
All these crimes and sins committed by the Americans are a clear
declaration of war on Allah, his messenger, and Muslims. And ulema
have throughout Islamic history unanimously agreed that the jihad is
an individual duty if the enemy destroys the Muslim countries. This
was revealed by Imam Bin-Qadamah in "Al- Mughni," Imam al-Kisa'i in
"Al-Bada'i," al-Qurtubi in his interpretation, and the shaykh of al-
Islam in his books, where he said: "As for the fighting to repulse [an
enemy], it is aimed at defending sanctity and religion, and it is a
duty as agreed [by the ulema]. Nothing is more sacred than belief
except repulsing an enemy who is attacking religion and life."
On that basis, and in compliance with Allah's order, we issue the
following fatwa to all Muslims:
The ruling to kill the Americans and their allies -- civilians and
military -- is an individual duty for every Muslim who can do it in
any country in which it is possible to do it, in order to liberate the
al-Aqsa Mosque and the holy mosque [Mecca] from their grip, and in
order for their armies to move out of all the lands of Islam, defeated
and unable to threaten any Muslim. This is in accordance with the
words of Almighty Allah, "and fight the pagans all together as they
fight you all together," and "fight them until there is no more tumult
or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah."
This is in addition to the words of Almighty Allah: "And why should ye
not fight in the cause of Allah and of those who, being weak, are ill-
treated (and oppressed)? -- women and children, whose cry is: 'Our
Lord, rescue us from this town, whose people are oppressors; and raise
for us from thee one who will help!'"
We -- with Allah's help -- call on every Muslim who believes in Allah
and wishes to be rewarded to comply with Allah's order to kill the
Americans and plunder their money wherever and whenever they find it.
We also call on Muslim ulema, leaders, youths, and soldiers to launch
the raid on Satan's U.S. troops and the devil's supporters allying
with them, and to displace those who are behind them so that they may
learn a lesson.
Almighty Allah said: "O ye who believe, give your response to Allah
and His Apostle, when He calleth you to that which will give you life.
And know that Allah cometh between a man and his heart, and that it is
He to whom ye shall all be gathered."
Almighty Allah also says: "O ye who believe, what is the matter with
you, that when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of Allah, ye
cling so heavily to the earth! Do ye prefer the life of this world to
the hereafter? But little is the comfort of this life, as compared
with the hereafter. Unless ye go forth, He will punish you with a
grievous penalty, and put others in your place; but Him ye would not
harm in the least. For Allah hath power over all things."
Almighty Allah also says: "So lose no heart, nor fall into despair.
For ye must gain mastery if ye are true in faith."
coaste...@yahoo.com
> On May 9, 9:14 pm, "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com>> > > *Foolish. The movement is new, three or four decades for the most
> > > part.
new. The naive Count 1 introduced Salafism and then claimed that it
was an old movement in order to pretend, like you, that Islam means
continuous violence irrespective of circumstance. You now know I am
correct and so you change the subject to mislead the readers. That's
conscious deceit, Staten. You display it over and over again. Your
mother would be disappointed. You didn't become a Mensch.
>
> > > From 1843 to 1846 10,000 Assyrian Christians including women and
> > > children were massacred by the Muslims, not because of Israel
>
> > Really? Not because of Israel?
>
> Israel was created in 1948. Are you full of camel urine your Muslim
> friends delivered to you from the Mid East?
I'm just stunned by these stupid *proofs* of yours.
>
>
>
> > > From 1894 to 1896 Muslims killed 1,5 millions Armenian
> > > Christians, not because of Israel.
>
> > Do you have your dates right?
>
> Absolutely.
>
> The first Armenian Massacres of 1894-1897
>
> 1894 AD: Christians in Armenia massacred.
> 1895 AD: Christians in Armenia massacred.
> 1896 AD: Christians in Armenia massacred. During 1894 -1896 some
> 250,000 Christians were murdered in Armenia.
> 1904 AD: Christians in Armenia massacred.
> 1909 AD: Christians in Armenia massacred - some 30,000.
> 1915 AD: The terrible massacres in Armenia - some 1,2 MILLION
> Christians murdered. And parallel to all the murdering during all
> Muslim massacres there were destruction, stealing, rape and slave
> taking. Just during the 1915 massacres at least 80,000 Christian
> Armenian girls and young women ended in Muslim harems, mainly in
> Turkey.
No Jewish girls? Or do you prefer to entertain shicksa fantasies of
constraint and submission?
> > THEREFORE, Israel is never responsible for Muslim Resistance and
> > violence, AND she gets the West Bank.
>
> So mass murdering 1,5 million Armenians serves for you as a “Muslim
> resistance” .
Ha, you provide us with spam containing neither context nor citations.
So, who knows? I take nothing from you at face value. One thing is
certain, YOU DON'T DEFEND ISRAEL'S CRIMES. AND NEITHER DO YOU ADDRESS
THE MUSLIM DOCTRINE OF JIHAD. Israel's conduct stands or falls alone.
You don't even ATTEMPT to defend her. Israel can't be defended by
bringing up irrelevant facts associated with other alleged crimes in
the remote past in which Israel was not involved. Especially with
neither citation nor context. You're floundering.
Look again at my three part demonstration of your fallacy. You run
away from it. You think piling up spam in an effort to confuse the
readership will win the day for you. You're not facing a man who will
let you get away with transparent gambits such as that. Respond to the
fallacy I demonstrate. And then I'll describe for you a legal
principle, one so elementary that it is taught in the first semester
of the first year.
Question . Why do you love so much mass murderers,
> rapists, thieves? Have your parents or grandparents been professional
> criminals?
Have you stopped beating your wife? Are your relatives in Israel war
criminals who might be hanged were they found in the right
jurisdiction?
> What Israel has in common with murdering 80 million Hindus
That wasn't even physically possible in that era.
or 1,5
> savagely murdered Armenians?
> What kind of logic do you use when whitewashing Islam?
I don't whitewash it. I'm a political realist. I accept it's
existence as a fact, warts and all, but not as you describe it because
you have a conflict of interest regarding Israel and can't be trusted
to be objective.
I haven't deleted any of your spam. I will tell you something curious
about what you fail to do in tirades such as this. First, you provide
neither attribution nor context regarding historical events. And you
provide nothing whatever about the Muslim theory of Jihad. You try to
defeat that theory in debate without mentioning its existence. There
are two categories, offensive and defensive. Offensive Jihad is rare
and nowhere near so religiously binding as the defensive version. What
the US and Israel face is the defensive category. Here is an
authoritative description of it:
"Sheikh Ibn Taymia says on this topic: "About the defensive jihad,
which is repelling an aggressor, is the most tasking type of jihad. As
agreed upon by everyone, it is obligatory to protect the religion and
what is sacred. The fIrst obligation after Iman is the repulsion of
the enemy aggressor who assaults the religion and the worldly affairs.
There are no conditional requirements such as supplies or transport,
rather he is fought with all immediate capability .The Ulama, our
peers and others have spoken about this." Ibn Taymia supports his
opinion of the absence of the requirement of transport in his reply to
the judge who said: "If jihad becomes Fard Ayn upon the people ofa
country, one of the requirements, in comparison to Hajj, is that one
must have supplies and a ride if the distance is such that one
shortens the prayer". Ibn Taymia said: "What the Judge has said in
comparison to Hajj has not been stated before by anybody and is a weak
argument. Jihad is obligatory because it is for the repulsion of the
harm of the enemy, therefore it has priority over Hijr. For Hijr no
transport is considered necessary. Of the jihads some take priority."
It is furthered in a sahih hadith narrated by Ebaad Bin Asaamat that
the Prophet (saw) said: "it is upon the Muslim to listen and obey in
hardship and prosperity , in what he likes and dislikes, and even if
he is not given his rights". Therefore, the pillar of the most
important of obligations, is the marching forward in times of hardship
as well as prosperity. As has been stated, contrary to Hajj, the
obligation remains present in times of hardship. And this is in
offensive jihad. So it is clear that defensive jihad carries a greater
degree of obligation. To defend the sacred things and the religion
from the aggressor is obligatory , as agreed upon by everyone. "The
fIrst obligation after Iman is repulsion of the enemy aggressor who
assaults the religion and the worldly affairs." Now we look at the
opinions of the four Mathhabs who are all in agreement on this point."
Whatever you think of Islam, and I have only a little more interest in
it than I do in Judaism, you will not be able to deny the application
of Defensive Jihad to the colonial/imperial roles of either Israel or
the United States in the Muslim World. They've both been very
intrusive. There has, according to doctrine, been spirited resistance.
There was no secret about the doctrine. It's been around for many
centuries. All Arabists without exception understand it. Michael
Scheuer understands it. Despite that the European Jews plunged in to
appropriate and annex Muslim lands! We Americans dominate and invade
it with boots on the ground. Now we're both reaping what we've sown.
General Marshall warned Truman. His advice was rejected though Truman
was embarrassed for having done so. And you, characteristically, are
now claiming that it is something else, a deep, nasty, ineradicable
criminal defect in your enemy's psyche brought on by some sort of
religious seizures. Your shtick is naught but a cover for what WE HAVE
DONE to precipitate these consequences. It's an alternate explanation
which you hope will demonize a quarter of the human race for the
benefit of Israel. Your hope is that we'll do the warring and
occupying and de-Islamification of the entire Muslim World, you know,
your dishonest "cake walk" part of it, and Israel will become Greater
Israel, maybe even Much Greater Israel and somehow still be a Jewish
State and bullet proof forever.
Your failure, Staten, is that you don't have the intellectual honesty
or the wit to acknowledge the characteristic mistakes made by true
believers, intellectually lazy political ideologues. You can't even
say that the outcomes were legitimately unanticipated. Anyone at all
familiar with these people could have predicted it. General Marshall
did. Islam was a known quantity, both doctrinally and historically,
and the mess for both Israel and the US was clearly predictable. No
matter what Islam is, we had reason to know what would happen. And
there is little room to take umbrage from it. It's hypocritical. We
assumed the risks and lost the gamble. The logical consequences have
arrived with a vengeance. The stakes involved have become
exponentially more dire. This is obvious. And America has simply
outstripped its ability to pay any more supine homage to her Zionist
partner in these adventures. It's a little easier for us. We don't
share your ideology. It's just that damned lobby.
Have you yet read Professor Mearsheimer's speech which I posted a day
or two ago? It's long since time to begin thinking realistically about
Israel's future. It's looking quite short term. Don't worry about your
own country.I know that's hard for you. I'll take care of that here.
coaste...@yahoo.com
> On May 10, 12:22 am, "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> >One of bin Laden's central complaints against us was our uncritical enabling of
> >Israel in the oppression of the Palestinians. It's also connected with
> >Israel's efforts to exert hegemony in the region by bullying and
> >implicit nuclear threats. There's plenty of connection with Israel.
>
> Again the sharia enforcer employs his taqiya, lies and deception
> hoping to fool everybody to advance Islam.
>
> In his fatwa Jihad Against Jews and Crusaders of 1998 the Osama's
> central idea was "occupying the holy lands of Islam ". There is no
> place in his rant indicating that his fatwa is a key point about
> "opressing palestinians" or "israeli's hegemony in the region by
> bullying and implicit nuclear threats."
>
> You made it up , bastard. Read the fatwa below.
You should study your fatwas more carefully. The one below is what I
was referring to primarily. The one you posted is sufficient as to
Israeli plans to dominate the Middle East.. You'll find the rest of
what you falsely claimed didn't exist, below.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MESSAGES TO THE WORLD: THE STATEMENTS OF OSAMA BIN LADEN
AMERICA SECTION, P 161, ET SEQ
1) Why are we fighting and opposing you?
2) What are we calling you to do, and what do we want from you?
As for the first question: Why are we fighting and opposing you?
The answer is very simple:
(1) Because you attacked us and continue to attack us.
(a) You attacked us in Palestine:
(i) Palestine, which has foundered under military occupation for more
than eighty years.
The British handed over Palestine, with your help and your support, to
the Jews, who have
occupied it for more than 50 years; years overflowing with oppression,
tyranny, crimes, killing,
expulsion, destruction, and devastation. The creation and continuation
of Israel is one
of the greatest crimes, and you are the leaders of its criminals. And
of course there is
no need to explain and prove the degree of American support for
Israel. The creation of
Israel is a crime which must be erased. Each and every person whose
hands have become
polluted in the conntribution towards this crime must pay its price,
and pay for it heavily.
(ii) It brings us both laughter and tears to see that you have not yet
tired of repeatiing
your fabricated lies that the Jews have a historical right to
Palestine, as it was promised
to them in the Torah. Anyone who disputes with them on this alleged
fact is accused of anti-semitism.
This is one of the most fallacious, widely-circulated fabrications in
history. The people of Palestine
are pure Arabs and original Semites. It is the Muslims who are the
inheritors of Moses (peace be upon
him) and the inheritors of the real Torah that has no tbeen changed.
Muslims believe in all of the
Prophets, including Abraham, Moses, Jesus, and Muhammad. If the
followers of Moses have been promised
a right toPalestine, then the Muslims are the most worthy nation of
this.
When the Muslims conquered Palestine and drove out the Romans,
Palestine and Jerusalem returned to
Islam, the religion of ll the Prophets. Therefore, the call to a
historical right to Palestine
cannot be raised against the Islamic Umma that believes in all the
Prophets of God---and
we make no distinction between them.
HW: This was the INITIAL GRIEVANCE in a considerable list. By placing
it first, bin Laden gave it
special importance.
I presume that you will now acknowledge that your attack on me on this
subject was unjust
and that you apologize as if you were a man.
staten
There is no fucking difference between Salafists, Sunnis or Shiits.
They are all violent , savage and barbaric sects and their violence
is as old as Islam is. You tried to employ your takyya by presenting
the Salafism as if it is just one sect supporting violent jihad
because it so convenient to link it to Israel and start bubbling
about Israel as if Israel is the only reason why Muslim are
violent. I busted your chicanery by presenting historical facts
showing that Muslim violence has started long before Israel was
created. Now you are pissed off that your trickery didn't work and
trying to confuse readers by your customary obfuscating wordy diarrhea
proving absolutely nothing. I don't buy this shit . If you can't
refute that Islamic violence is 14 century old and Israel is
absolutely not related to it , then just shut up and sit quiet. Your
trickery with Salafism won't work. Dig deeper , mendacious jihadnik.
>The naive Count 1 introduced Salafism and then claimed that it
> was an old movement in order to pretend, like you, that Islam means
> continuous violence irrespective of circumstance.
Of course Islam means continuous violence which has started right from
inventing Islam. Islam was peaceful only when it was under the
control of the European empires but European domination of Islam
was short-lived ending in the 1960s after European powers gave up
almost all their colonies.
>You now know I am
> correct and so you change the subject to mislead the readers.
No, you are dissembling and employing taqiyya hoping that no one would
notice your trickery. You failed again.
>That's conscious deceit, Staten.
From your part. Absolutely.
>You display it over and over again.
I displayed you facts but you, charlatan, tried to obfuscate
everything and jump back to trashing Israel only but you miserably
failed again.
>Your mother would be disappointed. You didn't become a Mensch.
It's funny to hear that from a guy who uses trickery and obfuscation
trying to convince everybody by demonstrating that Muslim violence
has come into existence because of Israel. What a ridiculous
assclown!
>
> > > > From 1843 to 1846 10,000 Assyrian Christians including women and
> > > > children were massacred by the Muslims, not because of Israel
>
> > > Really? Not because of Israel?
>
> > Israel was created in 1948. Are you full of camel urine your Muslim
> > friends delivered to you from the Mid East?
>
> I'm just stunned by these stupid *proofs* of yours.
Tell me, scummy, what your question “Really? Not because of Israel?”
supposed to mean after you read 10,000 Assyrian Christians
including women and children were massacred by the Muslims in 1843?
What the fuck Israel has in common with this event? Why any historical
event in the past you trying to tie to Israel, jihadi bitch?
>
>
> > > > From 1894 to 1896 Muslims killed 1,5 millions Armenian
> > > > Christians, not because of Israel.
>
> > > Do you have your dates right?
>
> > Absolutely.
>
> > The first Armenian Massacres of 1894-1897
>
> > 1894 AD: Christians in Armenia massacred.
> > 1895 AD: Christians in Armenia massacred.
> > 1896 AD: Christians in Armenia massacred. During 1894 -1896 some
> > 250,000 Christians were murdered in Armenia.
> > 1904 AD: Christians in Armenia massacred.
> > 1909 AD: Christians in Armenia massacred - some 30,000.
> > 1915 AD: The terrible massacres in Armenia - some 1,2 MILLION
> > Christians murdered. And parallel to all the murdering during all
> > Muslim massacres there were destruction, stealing, rape and slave
> > taking. Just during the 1915 massacres at least 80,000 Christian
> > Armenian girls and young women ended in Muslim harems, mainly in
> > Turkey.
>
> No Jewish girls? Or do you prefer to entertain shicksa fantasies of
> constraint and submission?
This is not "a fantasy", you sleazy scumbag. This is historical
fact.
Murdering 1,5 million Armenians by Muslims is a widely known fact.
What citation do you need else , moron? Are you trying to deny it
order to excuse Islam again?
> So, who knows? I take nothing from you at face value. One thing is
> certain, YOU DON'T DEFEND ISRAEL'S CRIMES.
Armenian genocide has nothing to do with “Israeli crimes”, idiot, as
it was committed by Muslims before Israel was created. I know it makes
you very unhappy as you want to bubble only about Israel and her
fictional “crimes” . But you can spin, you can lie you can jump out of
the window in despair, but you cannot re-write history - Muslim
violence has begun in 630s AD not in 1948.
>AND NEITHER DO YOU ADDRESS
> THE MUSLIM DOCTRINE OF JIHAD.
What else do you expect me to adress after Muslims murdered 1,5
million Armenian Christians? To say that it was Israel's fault?
>Israel's conduct stands or falls alone.
> You don't even ATTEMPT to defend her. Israel can't be defended by
> bringing up irrelevant facts associated with other alleged crimes in
> the remote past in which Israel was not involved. Especially with
> neither citation nor context. You're floundering.
What the fuck are you bubbling about , dumbass? What “irrelevant”
facts? Why Armenian genocide is “irrelevant” to you? Just because
you can't stand that there is no way to link Israel to it?
> Look again at my three part demonstration of your fallacy. You run
> away from it. You think piling up spam in an effort to confuse the
> readership will win the day for you.
No. You are pissed off because you hate the fact that Muslim violence
is as old as Islam is.
>You're not facing a man who will
> let you get away with transparent gambits such as that.
You presented so far no “transparent gambits” but a classical Muslim
taqiya hoping that it would help you to sleek over Islam and jihad.
>Respond to the fallacy I demonstrate.
I am responding. Fallacy is yours.
>And then I'll describe for you a legal principle, one so elementary that it is taught in the first semester
> of the first year.
>
>> Question . Why do you love so much mass murderers,
>
> > rapists, thieves? Have your parents or grandparents been professional
> > criminals?
>
> Have you stopped beating your wife?
Not my question. I am not a Muslim.
>Are your relatives in Israel war criminals who might be hanged were they found in the right
> jurisdiction?
My relatives are not in Israel and I an not a Jewish. Your
schizophrenia is progressing. Make a note of it.
> > What Israel has in common with murdering 80 million Hindus
>
> That wasn't even physically possible in that era.
It was . When it boils down to mass death and murder , no one can
compete with Islam. But you didn't answer my question- What Israel has
in common with murdering 80 million Hindus? What Israel has in common
with Armenian genocide?
> or 1,5
>
> > savagely murdered Armenians?
> > What kind of logic do you use when whitewashing Islam?
>
> I don't whitewash it. I'm a political realist. I accept it's
> existence as a fact, warts and all, but not as you describe it because
> you have a conflict of interest regarding Israel and can't be trusted
> to be objective.
Answer the question , bastard , What Israel has in common with
murdering 80 million Hindus? What Israel has in common with Armenian
genocide?
> I haven't deleted any of your spam.
Thanks but no cigar. As I need now to take care of your spam. But
Armenian genocide and mass murder of 1,5 Armenians is not a “spam” but
historical fact.
>I will tell you something curious
> about what you fail to do in tirades such as this. First, you provide
> neither attribution nor context regarding historical events.
Lies. Armenian genocide is a fact. It's not my fault that you hate it
because you cannot whitewash Islam.
>And you provide nothing whatever about the Muslim theory of Jihad. You try to
> defeat that theory in debate without mentioning its existence. There
> are two categories, offensive and defensive. Offensive Jihad is rare
> and nowhere near so religiously binding as the defensive version. What
> the US and Israel face is the defensive category.
Bullshit. It's not “rare”. Read the fuck Sharia law:
Sunni Sharia rulebook, the following is a selection of some Sharia
laws:
•Offensive, military Jihad is a religious obligation.
•Inferior status for all non-Muslims (known as "dhimma").
•Capital punishment for slandering Islam.
•Capital punishment for apostasy (leaving Islam).
•Women may not leave the house without husbands' permission; beating
disobedient women, polygamy, forced child marriage, and stoning of
adulterers are permitted.
•Slavery is legal.
•Lying ("taqiyya") to infidels is permitted.
•Capital punishment for homosexuals and lesbians.
What is so defensive you see here ? Are you going to deny it again ,
jihadi snitch ? Read more below .
Jihad:
“As concerns jihad, it is neither holy nor righteous; instead, it is
the most barbaric incitement to commit indiscriminate and large-scale
homicide. Jihad stands for the indiscriminate killing of kafirs,
enslaving their women and children, raping the women and keeping as
sex-slaves, plundering their wealth, confiscating properties, and
occupying their land by sword, fire or whatever means possible. In
fact, Islam was born with the sole intention of creating global
empire. It, therefore, puts greatest virtue in its military component:
jihad or fighting the kafirs with the intent of eliminating them from
the face of the earth, eventually. Allah has proclaimed that whatever
wealth and riches that exist on the earth belong to Allah and His
Messenger and Islam inspires its followers to wage a war against the
kafirs, the unlawful occupiers of those wealth and riches, for
bringing them to Muslim hands, the legal owners. So, for a Muslim,
launching a jihad or war against the kafirs, is the highest virtue—
higher even than a pilgrimage to Mecca (hajj). So says the Koran:
Fighting against the kafirs is beyond one’s personal likings and
dislikings as Allah has commanded to fight the pagans and all those
who ascribe partners (shirk) with Allah (2:216).
A Muslim, participating in Jihad, is called a mujahid (pl. mujahidin).
Allah’s ultimate intention is to raise and establish His religion to
reign supreme over all people and places on the earth with the help of
mujahidin. Allah aims to defeat the enemies of His creed, the
infidels, with mujahidin’s help. So the Koran says:
“That you believe in Allah and His Messenger and that you strive hard
and fight in the cause of Allah with your wealth and lives” (61:11).
“Jihad is better for you than your sitting back at home and if you do
so, He will forgive you your sins, your foulest deeds and admit you
into the gardens of eternity (paradise)” (61:12).
To inspire Muslims for jihad, Koran continues, “There is nothing in
the sight of Allah which may be equated to jihad.” (9:19) and “No
equal are those believers who sit at home (except those who are old
and disabled) and those who strive hard and fight with their wealth
and lives in the cause of Allah” (4:95). “That is because they (who
sit back at home) suffer neither thirst, nor fatigue, nor hunger in
the cause of Allah. …Nor they raise the anger of the disbelievers or
inflict any injury (killing, robbing or taking captive) upon the
enemy” (9:20). “Anyone whose feet get covered with dust in Allah’s
cause will be forbidden from the hell-fire” (Bukhari: 4:66). Allah
rebukes those who sit back at home for their cowardice and threatens
them with cruel punishments as says the Koran, “If you march not forth
(for jihad), I will punish you with painful torment and will replace
you with other people” (9:39).
in full - http://www.islam-watch.org/Brahmachari/Decrees-of-Islam-Jihad.htm
So where you see “defensive jihad” here based on the Koranic texts?
Another :
Allah said:
[كُتِبَ عَلَيْكُمُ الْقِتَالُ وَهُوَ كُرْهٌ لَّكُمْ وَعَسَى أَن
تَكْرَهُواْ شَيْئًا وَهُوَ خَيْرٌ لَّكُمْ وَعَسَى أَن تُحِبُّواْ
شَيْئًا وَهُوَ شَرٌّ لَّكُمْ وَاللَّهُ يَعْلَمُ وَأَنتُمْ لاَ
تَعْلَمُونَ ]
Jihad is ordained for you though you dislike it, and it may be that
you dislike a thing which is good for you, and that you like a thing
which is bad for you. Allah knows but you do not know. [2:216]
So how can it be “defensive” if Allah himself says : even if you don't
like jihad you anyway got to go and murder those damn infidels ,
because Allah knows better what is good for you?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't answer your obfuscatory diarrhea below as jihad and Israel has
nothing to do in common. Unless of course you can prove it
otherwise.
staten
On May 11, 7:09 pm, "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> On May 11, 12:41 pm, staten <state...@lycos.com> wrote:
> > On May 10, 12:22 am, "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
>
> > >One of bin Laden's central complaints against us was our uncritical enabling of
> > >Israel in the oppression of the Palestinians. It's also connected with
> > >Israel's efforts to exert hegemony in the region by bullying and
> > >implicit nuclear threats. There's plenty of connection with Israel.
>
> > Again the sharia enforcer employs his taqiya, lies and deception
> > hoping to fool everybody to advance Islam.
>
> > In his fatwa Jihad Against Jews and Crusaders of 1998 the Osama's
> > central idea was "occupying the holy lands of Islam ". There is no
> > place in his rant indicating that his fatwa is a key point about
> > "opressing palestinians" or "israeli's hegemony in the region by
> > bullying and implicit nuclear threats."
>
> > You made it up , bastard. Read the fatwa below.
>
> You should study your fatwas more carefully. The one below is what I
> was referring to primarily. The one you posted is sufficient as to
> Israeli plans to dominate the Middle East.. You'll find the rest of
> what you falsely claimed didn't exist, below.
You still need to show where in his insane rant he talks about
"opressing palestinians" and where he talks about "israeli's
hegemony in the region by bullying and implicit nuclear threats" , as
you belive is "one of Laden's central complaints"
Here is your original statement:
“One of bin Laden's central complaints against us was our uncritical
enabling of Israel in the oppression of the Palestinians. It's also
connected with Israel's efforts to exert hegemony in the region by
bullying and implicit nuclear threats.”
Show where bin Laden says about “oppression” and “implicit Israeli
nuclear threat” in both fatwas. Don't shirk your own words.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> and that you apologize as if you were a man.-
staten
> You don't even ATTEMPT to defend her. Israel can't be defended by
> bringing up irrelevant facts associated with other alleged crimes in
> the remote past in which Israel was not involved. Especially with
> neither citation nor context. You're floundering.
You said that creation of Israel offended “a lot of Muslims” and I
replied to you that hardly you can find a thing in the world which is
not “offending” Muslims. Now you are bitching about my list of things
which greatly “offends” Muslims because there is no room for you
to place Israel there to trash.
Next. You tried to bring up Salafism as the only source of Muslim
violence as this trickery would give you unlimited chance to squawk
about “Israeli crimes” and completely to shirk Muslim butchery in the
past which has started right after Islam was invented. I busted your
hoax and now you whining about “context” and “citations” as if
Armenian and Hindu genocides , that you call “alleged crimes in the
remote past”, sound so incredible that it requires tons of contexts
and citations .
I understand that you are very unhappy that Israel was not “created”
in 610 AD , along with inventing Islam, but in 1948. It would give you
an excellent opportunity to whitewash all Islam's butcheries and
crimes against humanity . But you cannot re-write history simply
because you hate Jews. You got to live with that and accept the fact
that - Islam is the greatest mass murderer and annihilator of non-
Muslims and their cultures ever seen in history of this sinful world.
And Israel has nothing to do with that.
coaste...@yahoo.com
> On May 7, 3:32 pm, "Count 1" <omnipitus2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > With Torres, anything could be considered an insult.
>
> > She's light years ahead of all toadies for the Israel Lobby and
> > Israel's current right-wing drang nach Osten types.
> > ***
>
> > She's a fool. I'm not suprised you think she's brilliant.
I do. Over all she may be your most effective opponent. She keeps you
on the defensive without deigning to talk to you.
>
> lol
> Of COURSE Hunter thinks Torres is brilliant. Were you around when
> Torres displayed her brilliance by posting, several times, that the
> author of 1948: The First Israelis was Ben Gurion -- "Ben" being DBG's
> middle name? Then there were Torres's additional gems -- at least 12
> of them -- where she repeatedly posted that Yitzhak Rabin was the
> leader of the Stern Gang.
One doesn't have to get right the names of Israel's historic criminals
in order to understand the dynamics of America's immense problem with
"The Jewish State". None of us here is a Middle East scholar. Most
certainly not you. You never met a "fact" you weren't willing to
distort, misrepresent or suppress. But a lot of us are widely read and
bring substantial life experience to the table. You show no sign
whatever of having benefited from, much less even had, any of that.
It's as if you've spent your life in an aquarium.
Your focus on meaningless detail is designed to *distract* from an
understanding of what's going on. You actively prefer that the readers
don't see the forest for the trees. You're reduced to filth but are so
morally filthy anyway that you think it's clever to use it because I
won't reciprocate. You underestimate our audience, sharavi.
So it's clear that you can't compete here, certainly not with Dianne
Torres. She has nearly perfect pitch and will not get into the gutter
with you. You can't drive her away. And you can't stack the deck
either. Cheating and slander are earning you contempt. In fact focus
on irrelevant detail is designed to distract from an understanding of
what's going on. Your tiny, petty goal is that the readers not see the
forest for the trees.
Guess what, Israel can neither win her totalitarian war with the
Palestians nor drive them out of the country nor continue to to
corrupt our Congress in Washington. The last is already at the tipping
point and blatant ethnic cleansing is no longer an option for a regime
which would do it in a flash if it could get away with it.
dsharavi
> > > > With Torres, anything could be considered an insult.
>
> > > She's light years ahead of all toadies for the Israel Lobby and
> > > Israel's current right-wing drang nach Osten types.
> > > ***
>
> > On May 7, 3:32 pm, "Count 1" <omnipitus2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > She's a fool. I'm not suprised you think she's brilliant.
>
> I do. Over all she may be your most effective opponent.
She might make several people laugh themselves into stitches, but
that's about as far as it goes.
> > lol
> > Of COURSE Hunter thinks Torres is brilliant. Were you around when
> > Torres displayed her brilliance by posting, several times, that the
> > author of 1948: The First Israelis was Ben Gurion -- "Ben" being DBG's
> > middle name? Then there were Torres's additional gems -- at least 12
> > of them -- where she repeatedly posted that Yitzhak Rabin was the
> > leader of the Stern Gang.
> One doesn't have to get right the names of Israel's historic criminals
> in order to understand the dynamics of America's immense problem with
> "The Jewish State".
That's right, Hunter, and thus, according to you, one shouldn't have
to "get right" the names of "America's historic criminals" like the
John Bircher Bobby Kennedy or KKK leader Martin Luther King.
>None of us here is a Middle East scholar.
You have made that quite clear.
>Most certainly not you. You never met a "fact" you weren't willing to
> distort, misrepresent or suppress.
You're so full of shit, Hunter. Compared to you, I'm the world's
leading expert on the ME. And unlike you, I don't lie about it.
>But a lot of us are widely read and
> bring substantial life experience to the table.
And have gone to wondrous pains to conceal it all.
>You show no sign
> whatever of having benefited from, much less even had, any of that.
> It's as if you've spent your life in an aquarium.
And you, once again, show that, for you, it's as if you've lived your
life on these NGs with your head so far up your ass you can chew your
food twice.
> Your focus on meaningless detail is designed to *distract* from an
> understanding of what's going on. You actively prefer that the readers
> don't see the forest for the trees. You're reduced to filth but are so
> morally filthy anyway that you think it's clever to use it because I
> won't reciprocate. You underestimate our audience, sharavi.
Were you really a lawyer? This post, as with many of your other posts,
would indicate that that claim of yours is merely another of your many
attempted deceptions.
Deborah
dsharavi
Hunter tries.
Deborah
dsharavi
wrote:
I've read it -- unlike you, who only pretend to have read the items
you cite. Your motto remains: Make America safe: Kiss Iranian ass,
and kill the Jews of Israel. And sidedodge and sidedodge and
sidedodge.
Deborah
Bolt Upright
Perhaps not when you're sober, at least. Have you slept off your drunken
excess of yesterday yet, or are you going on a three-day bender? Hmmmm?
dsharavi
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > TDNY said:
> > > > > No country should have nuclear weapons.
> > > > > And HW said:
> > > > > > >Agreed.
>
> > > On May 10, 5:28 pm, "dshar...@gmail.com" <dshar...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > Awwww. Ain't that sweet.
>
> > > > > > >That's the long term American policy goal and it's being
> > > > > > >seriously worked on by the Obama Administration.
>
> > > > Not bloody likely. The Obama Administration is a tad more pragmatic
> > > > than pie-in-the-sky idiots.
>
> > > > > Do you believe that nuclear weapons are meant to deter terrorism? One
> > > > > thing's sure. A country which thinks that way shouldn't have them.
>
> > > > Gee whiz, and maybe a country which has guys who run around robbing
> > > > banks and stabbing people should become a police state.
>
> > > > > You worry about being safe over here. To accomplish that the only
> > > > > thing you suggest is more aggressive pugnacity over there. That's not
> > > > > smart. But getting a handle on Israeli aggression against their
> > > > > Palestinian neighbors and striking a deal with the Iranians is.
>
> > > > BWAHAHAHA!!!!!
>
> > > > Hunter Watson's motto: Make America safe: Kiss Iranian ass, and kill
> > > > the Jews of Israel.
> > > > Deborah
>
>
> On May 14, 7:13 am, dsharavi <dshara...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > I've read it -- unlike you, who only pretend to have read the items
> > you cite. Your motto remains: Make America safe: Kiss Iranian ass,
> > and kill the Jews of Israel. And sidedodge and sidedodge and
> > sidedodge.
>
On May 14, 7:14 am, staten <state...@lycos.com> wrote:
> Jeanette Pryor gives very well taken points on the Mearsheimer's
> transcript. Looks like this esteemed professor words in words repeats
> the Mein Kampf.
Excellent article. And about time somebody noticed.
This deserves a separate thread of its own, thanks for posting it.
Deborah
>> John Mearsheimer: Mein Kampf, the Sequel
> 2010 May 5
> by Jeanette Pryortagshttp://www.newsrealblog.com/tag/john-mearsheimer/
>
> On April 29, 2010, John J. Mearsheimer, professor at the University of
> Chicago, delivered a lecture at the Palestine Center entitled, “The
> Future of Palestine: Righteous Jews vs. the New Afrikaners.” He
> outlined the four steps by which he believes Israel will morph into a
> uniquely Palestinian state:
>
> "Israel is not going to allow the Palestinians to have a viable state
> of their own in Gaza and the West Bank. Instead, those territories
> will be incorporated into a “Greater Israel,” which will be an
> apartheid state…In the end, it will become a democratic bi-national
> state, whose politics will be dominated by its Palestinian citizens…it
> will cease being a Jewish state, which will mean the end of the
> Zionist dream."
>
> In Mearsheimer’s opinion, an alternative future is impossible for two
> reasons. The first is:
>
> "… most Israelis are opposed to making the sacrifices that would be
> necessary to create a viable Palestinian state."
>
> The second obstacle to Middle East peace is The Lobby. In 2006,
> Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt, Professor at Harvard University wrote
> The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy.
>
> "We use ‘the Lobby’ as a convenient short‐hand term for the loose
> coalition of individuals and organizations who actively work to shape
> U.S. foreign policy in a pro‐Israel direction … no lobby has managed
> to divert U.S. foreign policy as far from what the American national
> interest would otherwise suggest, while simultaneously convincing
> Americans that U.S. and Israeli interests are essentially identical."
>
> Half-way through this paper, the author freely interchanges the
> expression “The Lobby” with “Jewish Americans.”
>
> First, the villain is The Lobby:
>
> The Lobby strives to ensure that public discourse about Israel
> portrays it in a positive light.
>
> Then the villain is “American Jewish leaders”:
>
> "Not surprisingly, American Jewish leaders often consult with Israeli
> officials "…
>
> Finally:
>
> "Jewish‐Americans have formed an impressive array of organizations to
> influence American foreign policy."
>
> Mearsheimer’s concept of the Jewish People has previously been
> articulated in history. This image of the Jewish people as “a
> conspiring self-serving state within the state” is shamelessly
> borrowed from speeches that once seduced a nation and turned ordinary
> people into butchers.
>
> Mearsheimer:
>
> The bottom line is that AIPAC, which is a de facto agent for a foreign
> government, has a stranglehold on the U.S. Congress … Israel is hardly
> the only country that spies on the United States, but its willingness
> to spy on its principal patron casts further doubt on its strategic
> value.
>
> Mein Kampf:
>
> The Jewish state was never limited in itself … this people has always
> formed a state within states … an incessant struggle is taking place
> between the advocates of British state interests and the proponents of
> a Jewish world dictatorship.
>
> Mearsheimer:
>
> Israel and its supporters have been able to do a good job of keeping
> the mainstream media in the United States from telling the truth about
> what Israel is doing to the Palestinians in the Occupied Territories.
>
> Mein Kampf:
>
> In this country of the ‘freest democracy,’ the Jew exerts an almost
> unlimited dictatorship indirectly through public opinion.
>
> Mearsheimer:
>
> With so much at stake for so many, all countries need to understand
> the forces that drive U.S. Middle East policy… Americans and non‐
> Americans need to understand and address the Lobby’s influence on U.S.
> policy.
>
> Mein Kampf:
>
> … it must open the eyes of the people on the subject of foreign
> nations and must remind them again and again of the true enemy of our
> present-day world…it must call eternal wrath upon the head of the foul
> enemy of mankind at the real originator of our sufferings. It must
> make certain that in our country, at least, the mortal enemy is
> recognized and that the fight against him becomes a leading symbol of
> brighter days …
>
> Mearsheimer:
>
> The lobby has played a key role in shielding Israel from American
> pressure up to now. In fact, one could argue that Israel could not
> have gotten as far down the apartheid road as it has without the help
> of organizations like AIPAC and the Anti-Defamation League.
>
> Mein Kampf:
>
> With astute shrewdness they knead public opinion and make it into an
> instrument for their own future.
>
> Mearsheimer:
>
> Why has the United States been willing to set aside its own security
> in order to advance the interests of another state? As one activist
> with a major Jewish organization wrote, “it is routine for us to say:
> ‘This is our policy on a certain issue, but we must check what the
> Israelis think.’ We as a community do it all the time.
>
> Mein Kampf:
>
> The Jew’s domination in the state seems so assured that now not only
> can he call himself a Jew again, but he ruthlessly admits his ultimate
> national and political designs…all they want is a central organization
> for their international world swindle.
>
> Mearsheimer:
>
> In sum, there are great dangers ahead for the Palestinians, who will
> continue to suffer terribly at the hands of the Israelis for some
> years to come. But it does look like the Palestinians will eventually
> get their own state, mainly because Israel seems bent on self-
> destruction.
>
> Hitler at the Reichstag:
>
> If the international finance-Jewry inside and outside Europe should
> succeed in plunging the nations into a world war yet again, then the
> outcome will not be the victory of Jewry, but rather the annihilation
> of the Jewish race in Europe!
>
> Human nature does not change. There is no logical reason to believe
> that this propaganda will not now produce the exact same effect it did
> when it was first used to objectify and demonize the Jewish people. It
> is getting very late.
The Peeler
Still shocked by the way she made all you pathetic trolls bleed heavily,
Dolt Unright? Jason Pee, he also, keeps whining about! I enjoyed it though!
LOL
coaste...@yahoo.com
> > > "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote
Clip
> > Israel, unfortunately, is a criminal state judged by the conduct of
> > it's political elite over the last sixty or more years.
>
> Israel is just a scapegoat Jihadists and terrorist-symps/Communist
> propagandists like Hunter Watson use to convince gullible anti-
> semites in the west that their ideology isn't really responsible for
> their violence.
By me in 2002:
"Dialectics is chatter completely unhinged from reality and
absolutely
useless as a practical guide to political policy or activity. In all
its history this newsgroup, filled as it is with ostensible
dialecticians, has never seen a single example of the doctrine in
use.
The reason for this is simple. The comrades all know it is
balderdash.
Damned if they will risk embarrassment in public. Intuitiviely they
know it is useless as an aid to understanding the historical or
revolutionary process. They also know that its purpose is completely
different, to aid (for mass consumption) in the obvious pretense that
what Communist leaders ordain either when in power or within their
movements is informed by quasi-occult powers, by a prescience granted
the elect but not to ordinary men."
coaste...@yahoo.com
Not even Zionists. Such a humanist already.
dsha...@yahoo.com
wrote:
> On May 10, 5:41 pm, "dshar...@gmail.com" <dshar...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote
>
> Clip
>
> > > Israel, unfortunately, is a criminal state judged by the conduct of
> > > it's political elite over the last sixty or more years.
>
> > Israel is just a scapegoat Jihadists and terrorist-symps/Communist
> > propagandists like Hunter Watson use to convince gullible anti-
> > semites in the west that their ideology isn't really responsible for
> > their violence.
>
> By me in 2002:
>
> "Dialectics is chatter completely unhinged from reality and
> absolutely
> useless as a practical guide to political policy or activity. In all
> its history this newsgroup, filled as it is with ostensible
> dialecticians, has never seen a single example of the doctrine in
> use.
Yup, Hunter does that, too -- anything to avoid addressing the facts.
coaste...@yahoo.com
> On May 11, 7:09 pm, "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> > On May 11, 12:41 pm, staten <state...@lycos.com> wrote:
> > > On May 10, 12:22 am, "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com>
> > > wrote:
>
> > > >One of bin Laden's central complaints against us was our uncritical enabling of
> > > >Israel in the oppression of the Palestinians. It's also connected with
> > > >Israel's efforts to exert hegemony in the region by bullying and
> > > >implicit nuclear threats. There's plenty of connection with Israel.
>
> > > Again the sharia enforcer employs his taqiya, lies and deception
> > > hoping to fool everybody to advance Islam.
>
> > > In his fatwa Jihad Against Jews and Crusaders of 1998 the Osama's
> > > central idea was "occupying the holy lands of Islam ". There is no
> > > place in his rant indicating that his fatwa is a key point about
> > > "opressing palestinians"
You are blind and you are ranting. Bin Laden is cool as can be.
or "israeli's hegemony in the region by
> > > bullying and implicit nuclear threats."
He describes explicitly how this hegemony in the region was and is
carried out, first of all by occupation. Israel has occupied parts of
Egypt, Syria, and Lebanon; she has bombed Iraq, Syria and Lebanon. We
attacked Iraq twice, the first time to break up her conquest of
Kuwait which if consolidated would have vastly increased the power of
Israel's then greatest enemy, and the second time, probably to break
her up into easily manageable bantustans, both at least partially to
preserve and enhance Israel's strategic position in the region. We
have occupied Afghanistan for something like 9 years. Ask yourself,
were it not for Israel would we ever have invaded Afghanistan?
Obviously not, as the central motive for 9/11 had to do with Israel.
Go to the book.
> > > You made it up , bastard. Read the fatwa below.
Sure, sure, you want to drag the American people further into this
absolutely unnecessary catastrophe and I'm the bastard. Join the
infantry. Face the reality you're creating.
> > You should study your fatwas more carefully. The one below is what I
> > was referring to primarily. The one you posted is sufficient as to
> > Israeli plans to dominate the Middle East.. You'll find the rest of
> > what you falsely claimed didn't exist, below.
>
> You still need to show where in his insane rant he talks about
> "opressing palestinians" and where he talks about "israeli's
> hegemony in the region by bullying and implicit nuclear threats" , as
> you belive is "one of Laden's central complaints"
When I arrive at truth it is irrelevant who may agree with me. Truth
is independent of politics and entirely alien to political ideologies
like Marxism and Zionism.
> Here is your original statement:
> “One of bin Laden's central complaints against us was our uncritical
> enabling of Israel in the oppression of the Palestinians. It's also
> connected with Israel's efforts to exert hegemony in the region by
> bullying and implicit nuclear threats.”
>
> Show where bin Laden says about “oppression” and “implicit Israeli
> nuclear threat” in both fatwas. Don't shirk your own words.
>
I haven't so far.
>
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---
>
> > MESSAGES TO THE WORLD: THE STATEMENTS OF OSAMA BIN LADEN
>
> > AMERICA SECTION, P 161, ET SEQ
>
> > 1) Why are we fighting and opposing you?
>
> > 2) What are we calling you to do, and what do we want from you?
>
> > As for the first question: Why are we fighting and opposing you?
> > The answer is very simple:
>
> > (1) Because you attacked us and continue to attack us.
>
> > (a) You attacked us in Palestine:
>
> > (i) Palestine, which has foundered under military occupation for more
> > than eighty years.
Eighty years of military occupation IS.ppression.
> > The British handed over Palestine, with your help and your support, to
> > the Jews,
Our support enabled and still enables Israeli oppression of the
Palestinian people. It's undeniable.
who have
> > occupied it for more than 50 years; years overflowing with oppression,
> > tyranny, crimes, killing,
> > expulsion, destruction, and devastation.
With manifestly continuing American support of Israeli oppression,
expulsion, destruction and devastation.
The creation and continuation
> > of Israel is one
> > of the greatest crimes, and you are the leaders of its criminals.
Bin Laden says that we Americans are the leaders of Israeli criminals.
That's the allegation. I'd say we've made ourselves complicit and for
no good reason whatever. It wasn't necessary to protect Israel. It
isn't now.
And
> > of course there is
> > no need to explain and prove the degree of American support for
> > Israel. The creation of
> > Israel is a crime which must be erased. Each and every person whose
> > hands have become
> > polluted in the conntribution towards this crime must pay its price,
> > and pay for it heavily.
Does the above confuse you? All these grievances are aimed at the
United States. And this is only the first section of the U.S. part of
the fatwa. There's a lot more beyond that. I just didn't paste it all
in. Why don't you look at it yourself.
> > (ii) It brings us both laughter and tears to see that you have not yet
> > tired of repeatiing
> > your fabricated lies that the Jews have a historical right to
> > Palestine, as it was promised
> > to them in the Torah. Anyone who disputes with them on this alleged
> > fact is accused of anti-semitism.
And here he even refers to the oppression of the American people by
the Israelis! What you deny is known even in the caves of Waziristan.
> > This is one of the most fallacious, widely-circulated fabrications in
> > history. The people of Palestine
> > are pure Arabs and original Semites. It is the Muslims who are the
> > inheritors of Moses (peace be upon
> > him) and the inheritors of the real Torah that has no tbeen changed.
> > Muslims believe in all of the
> > Prophets, including Abraham, Moses, Jesus, and Muhammad. If the
> > followers of Moses have been promised
> > a right toPalestine, then the Muslims are the most worthy nation of
> > this.
And here we have this ridiculous theological dispute among Semitic
cousins. As if the welfare of the American people was somehow
connected with THAT of all things.
> > When the Muslims conquered Palestine and drove out the Romans,
> > Palestine and Jerusalem returned to
> > Islam, the religion of ll the Prophets. Therefore, the call to a
> > historical right to Palestine
> > cannot be raised against the Islamic Umma that believes in all the
> > Prophets of God---and
> > we make no distinction between them.
>
> > HW: This was the INITIAL GRIEVANCE in a considerable list. By placing
> > it first, bin Laden gave it
> > special importance.
>
> > I presume that you will now acknowledge that your attack on me on this
> > subject was unjust
> > and that you apologize as if you were a man.-
I''m waiting.
coaste...@yahoo.com
> On May 11, 4:27 pm, "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Ha, you provide us with spam containing neither context nor citations.
> >Israel's conduct stands or falls alone.
> > You don't even ATTEMPT to defend her. Israel can't be defended by
> > bringing up irrelevant facts associated with other alleged crimes in
> > the remote past in which Israel was not involved. Especially with
> > neither citation nor context. You're floundering.
>
> You said that creation of Israel offended “a lot of Muslims” and I
> replied to you that hardly you can find a thing in the world which is
> not “offending” Muslims.
Here's one: It doesn''t offend Muslims a bit to be left alone in their
own region. I doesn't offend them for western colonialists to keep
away.
Now you are bitching about my list of things
> which greatly “offends” Muslims because there is no room for you
> to place Israel there to trash.
I don't think I responded to your irrelevant list. IIRC. Noting on
that list incites Muslims to go to war with us just because we have
those things in our own countries. What they don't like is to have it
inserted into their own region. So far as their region is concerned
what they don't like is not our business. No crusades for women's
rights in Afghanistan. That's not what the U.S.M.C is for. That's
aggressive, not defensive.
>
> Next. You tried to bring up Salafism as the only source of Muslim
> violence
I didn't do that.
as this trickery would give you unlimited chance to squawk
> about “Israeli crimes” and completely to shirk Muslim butchery in the
> past which has started right after Islam was invented. I busted your
> hoax and now you whining about “context” and “citations” as if
> Armenian and Hindu genocides , that you call “alleged crimes in the
> remote past”, sound so incredible that it requires tons of contexts
> and citations .
>
> I understand that you are very unhappy that Israel was not “created”
> in 610 AD , along with inventing Islam, but in 1948. It would give you
> an excellent opportunity to whitewash all Islam's butcheries and
> crimes against humanity . But you cannot re-write history simply
> because you hate Jews. You got to live with that and accept the fact
> that - Islam is the greatest mass murderer and annihilator of non-
> Muslims and their cultures ever seen in history of this sinful world.
> And Israel has nothing to do with that.
I can do nothing about your accusation that I hate Jews. You can do it
continuously and there is no use even responding if I'm determined to
stay here. So I ignore it even if that's not without a price. But
i've expressed a lot of opinions on political issues here and you can
find no anti-Semitism in the lot of it. You hate my views and you
badly wan't to drive me away by labeling me. We Americans are in the
process of overcoming this filthy tactic of yours. As Stephen Walt
says, the internet is a game changer.
coaste...@yahoo.com
> On May 14, 3:33 pm, "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 10, 5:41 pm, "dshar...@gmail.com" <dshar...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote
>
> > Clip
>
> > > > Israel, unfortunately, is a criminal state judged by the conduct of
> > > > it's political elite over the last sixty or more years.
>
> > > Israel is just a scapegoat Jihadists and terrorist-symps/Communist
> > > propagandists like Hunter Watson use to convince gullible anti-
> > > semites in the west that their ideology isn't really responsible for
By me in 2002 on apst:
"Dialectics is chatter completely unhinged from reality and absolutely
useless as a practical guide to political policy or activity. In all
its history this newsgroup, filled as it is with ostensible
dialecticians, has never seen a single example of the doctrine in use.
dsha...@yahoo.com
>
> > > > "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote
>
> Clip
>
> > > Israel, unfortunately, is a criminal state judged by the conduct of
> > > it's political elite over the last sixty or more years.
>
> > Israel is just a scapegoat Jihadists and terrorist-symps/Communist
> > propagandists like Hunter Watson use to convince gullible anti-
> > semites in the west that their ideology isn't really responsible for
> > their violence.
>
> By me in 2002:
>
> "Dialectics is chatter completely unhinged from reality and
> absolutely
> useless as a practical guide to political policy or activity. In all
> its history this newsgroup, filled as it is with ostensible
> dialecticians, has never seen a single example of the doctrine in
> use. The reason for this is simple.
Blah blah blah. Except for the fact that most of your posts and those
of your butt pirate buddies are basically chatter completely unhinged
from reality and absolutely useless as a practical guide to political
policy or activity, your stupid post is completely irrelevant to SCI/
SCJ. But you knew that, of course, you senile terrorist-loving suck,
didn't you. You just couldn't think up any more of your usual
bullshit.
dsha...@yahoo.com
wrote:
Such a pair of bullshit artist wannabes. Ronzoni the Fairy at least
has an excuse, which is that he couldn't win a battle of wits with a
stuffed iguana. Herr Twatson the Muslim terrorist-loving symp knows it
all for the lie it is.
dsha...@yahoo.com
wrote:
> On May 14, 8:39 pm, "dshar...@gmail.com" <dshar...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On May 14, 3:33 pm, "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
>
> > > On May 10, 5:41 pm, "dshar...@gmail.com" <dshar...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote
>
> > > Clip
>
> > > > > Israel, unfortunately, is a criminal state judged by the conduct of
> > > > > it's political elite over the last sixty or more years.
>
> > > > Israel is just a scapegoat Jihadists and terrorist-symps/Communist
> > > > propagandists like Hunter Watson use to convince gullible anti-
> > > > semites in the west that their ideology isn't really responsible for
> > > > their violence:
>
> By me in 2002 on apst:
>
> "Dialectics is chatter completely unhinged from reality and absolutely
> useless as a practical guide to political policy or activity. In all
> its history this newsgroup, filled as it is with ostensible
> dialecticians, has never seen a single example of the doctrine in use.
You just posted this tripe, you senile halfwit. Not only have you
nothing to say, you have to dredge up your crap from eight years ago
to prove it. And you claim you were a lawyer? Obviously not the top
drawer sort.
coaste...@yahoo.com
It's not irrelevant to your lie that I'm a "Communist." But then lying
is like breathing with you. And you probably don't have the foggiest
as to what the entry was about. Your aquarium is a little hard on the
printed or electronic "word."
Read this, sharavii. This is not new information but Professor Pape is
now bringing it out in book form and up to date. I''m sure you're
going to enjoy watching the central pillar of your Hasbara BS
collapsing.
coaste...@yahoo.com
Read this, sharavi. It's the death knell among intellectuals of your
lies about Muslims.
coaste...@yahoo.com
Read this sharavi. You badly need saturation with the truth about the
Muslim RESISTANCE to Israel-driven American and Israeli behavior *in
the Middle East*. After listening to the crap you and Staten and the
Lobby spew about terrorism being found in Muslim genes, it's a perfect
refutation. Dr. Pape's expansion of the paper into definitive book
form in imminent. No more lies on this subject, sharavi. No more by
staten, but I have no confidence that he is capable of understanding
what it's about. So here it is again. Tripe is it? What a joke you
are.
staten
wrote:
> On May 12, 5:42 am, staten <state...@lycos.com> wrote:
[Osama's insane megalomaniac gibberish flashed]
> Does the above confuse you? All these grievances are aimed at the
> United States. And this is only the first section of the U.S. part of
> the fatwa. There's a lot more beyond that. I just didn't paste it all
> in. Why don't you look at it yourself.
>
Wonderful. Now this seditious , terrorist admiring scum openly
supports Islamo-Nazi demands for America to eliminate her allies and
to capitulate to Islam. He is even excited that they are “aimed at
the United States”! It's the absolute bottom of this quisling's
mentality. He not only sanctions the evil directed against America ,
he even gets excited about that . Why this terrorist loving piece
of human filth is not thrown to jail or not deported is beyond
comprehension.
.
> > > I presume that you will now acknowledge that your attack on me on this
> > > subject was unjust
> > > and that you apologize as if you were a man.-
>
> I''m waiting.-
Wait. I deliver your front teeth as a Christmas present to your wife .
That's my best apology to you, terrorist loving scumbag.
staten
wrote:
> On May 12, 6:59 am, staten <state...@lycos.com> wrote:
>
> > On May 11, 4:27 pm, "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
>
> > > Ha, you provide us with spam containing neither context nor citations.
> > >Israel's conduct stands or falls alone.
> > > You don't even ATTEMPT to defend her. Israel can't be defended by
> > > bringing up irrelevant facts associated with other alleged crimes in
> > > the remote past in which Israel was not involved. Especially with
> > > neither citation nor context. You're floundering.
>
> > You said that creation of Israel offended “a lot of Muslims” and I
> > replied to you that hardly you can find a thing in the world which is
> > not “offending” Muslims.
>
> Here's one: It doesn''t offend Muslims a bit to be left alone in their
> own region. I doesn't offend them for western colonialists to keep
> away.
But it does offend most of Americans that treasonous trash like
yourself still walking free cheer leading American enemies.
> What they don't like is to have it
> inserted into their own region.
But you absolutely don't care that they “inserted” terrorism and
murder of our citizens in our own home because well being of our
worst enemies is the top priority for you.
>So far as their region is concerned what they don't like is not our business.
Sharia already has been settled in in America . It is our prime
business to stop it from metastasizing further. No matter in what part
of the world they live, they consider it “their region”. It is in the
Koran. And seditious scum like yourself help them to establish a
Caliphat in America. You should be fried in the electric chair,
like Herbert Hans Haupt. In 1942 there was no problems with
executing American traitors.
>No crusades for women's rights in Afghanistan.
Fuck Afghanistan. We already have honor murders and clitorectomies in
America. Thanks to terror loving human trash like yourself.
>That's not what the U.S.M.C is for. That's aggressive, not defensive.
Of course it's “aggressive” . For you , scum, the well being of our
enemies is more important than 3,316 murdered by Muslims Americans on
American soil.
>
> > Next. You tried to bring up Salafism as the only source of Muslim
> > violence
>
> I didn't do that.
Yes you did , completely ignoring Muslim terror originating in 7th
century along with spreading of Islam.
> as this trickery would give you unlimited chance to squawk
>
> > about “Israeli crimes” and completely to shirk Muslim butchery in the
> > past which has started right after Islam was invented. I busted your
> > hoax and now you whining about “context” and “citations” as if
> > Armenian and Hindu genocides , that you call “alleged crimes in the
> > remote past”, sound so incredible that it requires tons of contexts
> > and citations .
>
> > I understand that you are very unhappy that Israel was not “created”
> > in 610 AD , along with inventing Islam, but in 1948. It would give you
> > an excellent opportunity to whitewash all Islam's butcheries and
> > crimes against humanity . But you cannot re-write history simply
> > because you hate Jews. You got to live with that and accept the fact
> > that - Islam is the greatest mass murderer and annihilator of non-
> > Muslims and their cultures ever seen in history of this sinful world.
> > And Israel has nothing to do with that.
>
> I can do nothing about your accusation that I hate Jews.
This is not my key point. Hating Jews is in your genes. I don't care
about that. I care that you excusing and coddling our enemies trying
to re-write history on behalf of Islam.
>You can do it continuously and there is no use even responding if I'm determined to
> stay here.
Who the fuck cares where you stay. Certainly not myself.
>So I ignore it even if that's not without a price. But
> i've expressed a lot of opinions on political issues here and you can
> find no anti-Semitism in the lot of it.
I don't give a fuck what you expressed and I don't care about your
anti-Semitism either. I only interject when you shamelessly lying,
fabricating tales and perverting history on behalf of Islam.
>You hate my views and you badly wan't to drive me away by labeling me.
Why? I don't drive you away . I do love clowns. I have much fun
reading your pompous gibberish . And I enjoy rubbing your own shit
into your shiny face. Please stay as long as you wish .
>We Americans are in the process of overcoming this filthy tactic of yours.
Forget about “we Americans” , seditious jihadi rat. Your place is on
the electrical chair next to Herbert Hans Haupt, traitor.
>As Stephen Walt says, the internet is a game changer.
And a good tool for exposing seditious rats whoring for Islam. Thanks
to the internet you are exposed!
staten
wrote:
> http://www.danieldrezner.com/research/guest/Pape1.pdf-
Read this, scum working for jihad. That's you who need to purge your
head from jihadi garbage and to fill the vacuum with the truth. There
is no way to separate Islam from terrorism. NO WAY!
Contrasting Secular and Religious Terrorism
By Jonathan Fine
Middle East Quarterly
University of Chicago political scientist Robert Pape argues, for
example, that Islam has little to do with suicide bombing. Rather, he
suggests, that suicide bombers, wherever they are in the world, are
motivated much more by tactical goals. He juxtaposes the suicide
terrorism of the (non-Islamic) Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE)
with Islamist suicide bombing to demonstrate that a desire to end
occupation is the common factor rather than religion. Therefore, he
suggests focus upon religion is a distraction and that policymakers
seeking to stop the scourge of suicide attacks should work instead to
address root causes, which he sees as the presence of troops or
interests in disputed or occupied lands.[2]
Despite the revisionism advanced by Pape and others, the fact remains
that most suicide bombings since 1980 in the world in general and in
the Middle East in particular are sponsored by Islamist and not
secular terrorist groups. Pape avoids this conclusion by
gerrymandering his data so that he does not need to include the
significant numbers of suicide bombings conducted by Sunnis against
Shi‘a in Iraq.[3]................................
One of the biggest ideological differences between religious and
secular terrorists is their definition of the enemy: While secular
terrorists see their opponents as representatives of a certain
socioeconomic order or regime, Islamist terrorists espouse a broader
definition. Qutb, for example, revived the Qur'anic term jahiliya, the
pre-Islamic age of ignorance in which paganism flourished, to describe
the state of any society not by his definition
Islamic.................
One of his most famous slogans during the Afghan war was, "Jihad and
the rifle alone. No negotiations, no conferences, no dialogue"[45] On
March 6, 1995, Hamas spiritual leader Sheikh Ahmad Yasin declared that
any suicide bomber who had received the blessing of a certified Muslim
cleric should be considered a shahid (martyr) who had fallen in the
service of jihad rather than one who had committed suicide by personal
intent,[46] something forbidden in Islam. Sheikh Yusuf al-Qaradawi, an
influential Sunni cleric based in Qatar, affirmed Yasin's approach the
following year.[47] Then, on February 23, 1998, bin Laden announced
the establishment of the International Islamic Front for Jihad against
the Crusaders and the Jews and declared it legitimate to kill any
American, whether military or not...................
While Qutb provided the theoretical basis for modern Sunni Islamism,
Khomeini provided the exegesis to legitimize Shi‘i theocracy in his
1970 essay, "Hukumat-i Islami" (Islamic government). Permeating
Khomeini's writing is a perception of the West as an opponent to
Islam, the concept of martyrdom, and the self-identification of Shi‘a
as oppressed people.[49] He saw the superpowers as responsible for all
the world's wrongs and suggested that it was the obligation of all
Muslims to mobilize the oppressed to remove the superpowers from the
global arena.[50].........................
in full:
http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/Articles/Contrasting%20Secular%20and%20Religious.html
*********************************************************************
Your tripe is busted again, scummy. And you again made a big fool of
yourself. Congratulations!
Count 1
"icono...@yahoo.com" <coaste...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:02b7f6a1-3acb-469b...@g5g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
On May 10, 5:34 pm, "dshar...@gmail.com" <dshar...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On May 7, 3:32 pm, "Count 1" <omnipitus2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > With Torres, anything could be considered an insult.
>
> > She's light years ahead of all toadies for the Israel Lobby and
> > Israel's current right-wing drang nach Osten types.
> > ***
>
> > She's a fool. I'm not suprised you think she's brilliant.
I do. Over all she may be your most effective opponent. She keeps you
on the defensive without deigning to talk to you.
****
Are we talking about the same person?
Or universe?
Just in this thread Torres 'deigns' to talk to me. Can you get anything
right? Furthermore, I don't have opponents on usenet, I am universally
loved.
coaste...@yahoo.com
> On May 14, 11:57 pm, "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> > On May 12, 5:42 am, staten <state...@lycos.com> wrote:
>
> [Osama's insane megalomaniac gibberish flashed]
That's an act of desperation. You brought bin Laden into the
conversation. And aren't you now struggling to prevent his ideas from
being discussed? That's a retreat, Staten, and one with strategic
implications. I assure you that the DoD, the CIA, the military, State
and the White House do everything they can to understand him. They
study his words and his actions constantly.
Let's look at why, here on 'Jewish' news groups anyway, you affect not
being able to bear knowing about the point of view of your enemy?
Let's look at why you are so angry that you want to engage in struggle
with *me* ostensibly without knowing anything about *his* ideology? So
angry that 'know thine enemy' has no resonance? Do you think that's
realistic? Or maybe your realism is of a lower nature.
Perhaps, just perhaps, Osama bin Laden is NOT your enemy. Maybe he's
just mine. Perhaps he's your de facto ally? Why not? On 9/11 the
Israeli Mossad guys who seem to have known about it in advance were
dancing and high fiveing on the roof while taking in the delightful
inferno--equipped with cameras. Yes, why not? On 9/11 in a momentary
lapse into candor Netanyahu said that the attack on the Twin Towers
was "good for Israel." You know, a variant on "good for the Jews."
Why might that be? And why would you want to "flush" the words of
Osama bin Laden ostensibly as if they were 'gibberish' when in fact
they are clear, sane and oriented in time and space as can be. They
are not fraught with Islamic mysticism but are are nearly pure
politics. No one has ever said, for example, that the U.S.
government's elaborate psychological study of the personality of
Adolph Hitler was useless or rendered up gibberish, insane or not. No,
in fact it had some influence on the conduct of the war. Parsing Bin
Laden's mind and political analysis is a part of knowing our enemy.
It's part of war fighting. Yet you affect being too emotional to bear
it. I think that in fact you are deeply worried that understanding him
will diminish America's zeal for your war against Islam. Or I should
say America's conduct of a war against Islam on behalf of Israel.
Guess who you remind me of intellectually, temperamentally, etc?
> > Does the above confuse you? All these grievances are aimed at the
> > United States. And this is only the first section of the U.S. part of
> > the fatwa. There's a lot more beyond that. I just didn't paste it all
> > in. Why don't you look at it yourself.
>
> Wonderful. Now this seditious , terrorist admiring scum openly
> supports Islamo-Nazi demands for America to eliminate her allies and
> to capitulate to Islam.
I want to see Osama bin Laden dance at the end of a rope after being
captured by men of the 1st Mar Div.
As to capitulation, if we're hurting ourselves with policies which are
contrary to our own natural interests, it's hardly a capitulation to
change what we're doing. It's pragmatism, realism. Error cries out for
correction.
He is even excited that they are “aimed at
> the United States”! It's the absolute bottom of this quisling's
> mentality. He not only sanctions the evil directed against America ,
> he even gets excited about that . Why this terrorist loving piece
> of human filth is not thrown to jail or not deported is beyond
> comprehension.
Where do you get the idea that I sanction the terrorism of the
Resistance? Only those who have other agendas such as a generalized
war on Islam don't want to see it ended. How are they going to get
their BIGGER WAR if the provocations of the terrorists end? But as
long as we're fighting it I want to understand its motivation so that
we may effectively follow our interests. You want it to go on
indefinitely so that another generation of American kids can join you
(hopefully) in slogging the jungled foothills of the Himalayas looking
for "Muslims." All I'm doing here is pointing out your
misrepresentations of what Bin Laden says. I'm making good honest fun
of your emotionalism, even of your claim that you're not Jewish which
I find incredible.
As you've no understanding of what actually drives ME suicide
terrorism, here again is a systematic study of it. Dr. Pape demolishes
you. It's as if you were in his sights all along.
http://www.danieldrezner.com/research/guest/Pape1.pdf
> > > > I presume that you will now acknowledge that your attack on me on this
> > > > subject was unjust
> > > > and that you apologize as if you were a man.-
>
> > I''m waiting.-
>
> Wait. I deliver your front teeth as a Christmas present to your wife .
> That's my best apology to you, terrorist loving scumbag.
Don't forget your Boy Scout Oath.
Count 1
> against Islam.
It's apologists pretend it is on the front lines in the "war against
terrorism" which is now being redefined as a war against Islam.
Staten''s an exponent of it. It's the current Lobby shtick.
***
Name one recognizable member of this 'lobby' who argues there is a war
against Islam. You can even use W&M's loose definition of the 'lobby' which
includes anyone who ever spoke about Israel in any public forum.
Right now Israel isn't fighting any war at all, but will be
> if Hamas ever gets enough weapons and Hezbollah get's antsy and starts
> another war.
The Israelis started that war to refresh their deterrent.
***
LOL. Hezbollah crosses the border, kidnaps IDF, takes them back to Lebanon
to be held as hostages, and yet Israel started the war! Even you can't be
that asinine.
>
> You have interests in the Golan and West Bank to the extent your ally
> Israel
> does -
Bullshit, no involuntary, derivative lockstep. America has no inherent
national interest in the Golan or the West Bank.
***
Not 'inherent', but as long as your ally does, then you do too. If she ever
decides she doesn't need them anymore, then your interests end there. The
same thing works both ways. Israel now has an 'interest' in your success in
Afghanistan, especially to the extent that Israel - as an important ally -
provides research and development of US military systems which may lead to
success in that theater.
***
They mean nothing to
Americans and Israel can be defended without them. In fact the
Israelis knew the 1967 War was over through intercepted radio
transmissions when your general with the eye patch decided impulsively
to send his armor up the slop to the heights. Read his memoir. In fact
he also admits that that the famous Syrian artillery fire from the
heights which Israel used as justification for taking the Golan, was
mostly the result conscious Israeli provocations.
***
At this point there is no reason for me to take one word you write of
history as true. 'My general'? I don't think Canada had a general in fight
in 1967, but I'll check my history books.
especially the Golan which is of obvious strategic importance to
> Israel.
No it's not. It's not part of a 19th Century battlefield.
***
Holding the high ground remains a tactical advantage, especially against a
nation like Syria which is very much still part of a 19th century
battlefield.
Instead of this constant drum beating about how Israel is the cause
> of Islamic terrorism directed against the US, a lie you tell as you know
> it
> isn't the truth,
It's not the only cause. I've emphasized that over and over. We've
made enemies on our own over there, certainly. But we're fighting
Israel's enemies too. And we're seen as complicit in Israel's crimes.
We can only deal with those problems by dealing with Israel.
****
You can only deal with these problems by dealing with their causes, yet you
continue to show no knowledge of the causes at all. Hint, they don't have
anything to do 'holy lands', 'army bases', or Israel. They have to do with
an ideology that advocates destruction instead of negotiation.
you should spend some time learning about the ideology of
> those who want to see you dead, or converted (actually the term they use
> is
> 'revert') to their religion.
Hasbara.
***
No, fact. But I don't expect a Palestinian propagandist and apologist for
Islamic terrorism to speak truthfully.
Designed to buy time to finish planting facts on the ground
on the West Bank.
Our interests there are not the same as Israel's. We can protect her
without giving up any part of our sovereignty to her. A regional
settlement is in our interests. They far outweigh whether Israel
reaches her goal of a Greater Israel.
****
You're still focused on an imaginary cause.
> Even the most recent failed attack had nothing to do with Israel - Shazhad
> was pissed about predator drone attacks killing his Pakistan Taliban
> buddies. He wasn't in it for the Palestinians.
Tiresome pedantry. We drove the Taliban out of Afghanistan because
of 9/11--and in a burst of profound idiocy, STAYED to nation build
when all that was at issue was hot pursuit of bin Laden.
***
Hey, no one said your country's adventures in that country were well played.
Canada has lost her share of sons and daughters as well.
***
We didn't
capture him because Bush got distracted by the prospect of turning
Iraq into a democracy to make the region safe for Israel..
***
Again, Israel's safety had nothing to do with the decision to go into Iraq.
If you're looking for a country's interests other than America or Iraq being
served by that invasion start with Kuwait and work south along the coast.
One of bin
Laden's central complaints against us was our uncritical enabling of
Israel in the oppression of the Palestinians. It's also connected with
Israel's efforts to exert hegemony in the region by bullying and
implicit nuclear threats. There's plenty of connection with Israel.
It's stupid to try to argue your way out of it. You should avoid the
subject for the same reasons you avoid discussing Israel's right to
ethnically cleanse Palestine and to erect a Jewish State.
***
Palestinian propaganda, debunked by the VDH article I posted. And I don't
avoid the discussion of Israel's right to ethnically cleanse palestine. They
don't have a right to do that. But since there is no evidence they ever have
or ever want to, it's a meaningless statement to make. Like saying I don't
support their attempts to annex the moon.
Count 1
Perhaps, just perhaps, Osama bin Laden is NOT your enemy. Maybe he's
just mine. Perhaps he's your de facto ally? Why not? On 9/11 the
Israeli Mossad guys who seem to have known about it in advance were
dancing and high fiveing on the roof while taking in the delightful
inferno--equipped with cameras. Yes, why not? On 9/11 in a momentary
lapse into candor Netanyahu said that the attack on the Twin Towers
was "good for Israel." You know, a variant on "good for the Jews."
Why do you continue with these lies? The dancing Israelis BS was exposed
long ago, it is an incident that never happened, and no one has ever been
able to provide a credible shred of evidence that it ever did. It was an
internet rumor with no basis in reality.
Additionally Netanyahu never said the terror attacks were 'good for Israel'.
Again this is an internet based lie. He said Israel would benefit from the
attacks as it would swing public opinion in the US towards Israel. Since
that did happen you should be complimenting him on his clairvoyance.
9/11 had an impact the Embassy bombings, Khobar Towers, and Cole never
achieved. Netanyahu was simply identifying this impact and correctly
predicting the ramifications it would have for his country who is also a
target of Islamic terrorists.
dsharavi
I read it, nearly seven years ago when it was published. His
justification for Israel's security wall was spot on. Do you have a
point in bringing up this old piece? Probably you wouldn't have done
so, if you'd actually read it.
Deborah
dsharavi
How many times are you going to repeat this "read this" stuff? As I
just stated, I already read it nearly seven years ago when it was
first published.
> You badly need saturation with the truth about the
> Muslim RESISTANCE to Israel-driven American and Israeli behavior *in
> the Middle East*.
Um, that's NOT what the author said. If you'd actually read the
article, instead of merely pretending to do so, you might have gleaned
that. Of course, if you'd actually read the article, you might not
have posted it in the first place.
> After listening to the crap you and Staten and the
> Lobby spew about terrorism being found in Muslim genes, it's a perfect
> refutation.
You're lying again, old man, and your lie shows your desperation.
Produce the post where I EVER stated that terrorism is found in Muslim
genes. You can't, can you? Nope, not any more than you could produce
the non-existent post over which you ied repeatedly, regarding a
"racist remark" about Al Sharpton which I never made.
> Dr. Pape's expansion of the paper into definitive book
> form in imminent. No more lies on this subject, sharavi. No more by
> staten, but I have no confidence that he is capable of understanding
> what it's about. So here it is again. Tripe is it? What a joke you
> are.
The joke is you, old man. Produce any post where I claimed terrorism
is in "Muslim genes". Then produce that post where I made the "racist
remark" about Al Sharpton you repeatedly claimed I made.
What a liar and a coward you are.
Deborah
dsharavi
Don't worry about H's lies, Count. H now claims that *I* have claimed
that "terrorism is in Muslim genes". I view this on a par with his
claim that I made a "racist remark" about Al Sharpton in a post -- a
post which H could never produce.
I truly think the old man has gone off the deep end. In another post,
he claims that only he and Meirsheimer can save Israel. As Dave Barry
would say, I am not making this up.
Deborah
coaste...@yahoo.com
> On May 15, 12:20 am, "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> > On May 12, 6:59 am, staten <state...@lycos.com> wrote:
>
> > > On May 11, 4:27 pm, "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com>
> > > wrote:
>
> > > > Ha, you provide us with spam containing neither context nor citations.
> > > >Israel's conduct stands or falls alone.
> > > > You don't even ATTEMPT to defend her. Israel can't be defended by
> > > > bringing up irrelevant facts associated with other alleged crimes in
> > > > the remote past in which Israel was not involved. Especially with
> > > > neither citation nor context. You're floundering.
>
> > > You said that creation of Israel offended “a lot of Muslims” and I
> > > replied to you that hardly you can find a thing in the world which is
> > > not “offending” Muslims.
> > Here's one: It doesn''t offend Muslims a bit to be left alone in their
> > own region. I doesn't offend them for western colonialists to keep
> > away.
> But it does offend most of Americans that treasonous trash like
> yourself still walking free cheer leading American enemies.
The traitors are the sleek, conflicted gentlemen of the Israel Lobby
who intimidate and corrupt our legislators in war time on behalf of a
foreign country who objectively behaves like our enemy. They owe their
obligation to America, not to Israel. And you've not been following
the polls very well. Among my class, which matters most to me because
it tends to be informed, I'm in a strong majority. And it is NOT a
pacifist majority either. Join the infantry, Staten. I did at age 17.
No matter how old you are you need to grow up. Just think of the
travel opportunities. Pakistan for example. You could personally
conquer Islam in Pakistan. And be happy, you've already promised us
there will be no casualties and that we can do it "without much
troops".
> > What they don't like is to have it
> > inserted into their own region.
> But you absolutely don't care that they “inserted” terrorism and
> murder of our citizens in our own home because well being of our
> worst enemies is the top priority for you.
"You made it up, you bastard." Haha.
> >So far as their region is concerned what they don't like is not our business.
> Sharia already has been settled in in America . It is our prime
> business to stop it from metastasizing further.
Paranoid. We disestablished religion in the original Constitution. We
have personal freedom of religion and no one can take it away from us.
Yes, paranoid. You're trying to sell a global war against Islam.
You've gone berserk.
No matter in what part
> of the world they live, they consider it “their region”.
Bullshit. Having bad dreams? You're imagining things.
It is in the
> Koran.
Right now the most practical problem we have with religion is with
what's in the Torah and the Talmud.
And seditious scum like yourself help them to establish a
> Caliphat in America. You should be fried in the electric chair,
> like Herbert Hans Haupt. In 1942 there was no problems with
> executing American traitors.
````````
> >No crusades for women's rights in Afghanistan.
>
> Fuck Afghanistan.
That was my view but you are far more ambitious, a global crusade.
Root 'em out, those Muslims!
But to subdue Islam world wide, your project, we have to subdue
Afghanistan sooner or later. Right now it's costing more on a daily
basis than the war in Iraq did and you know where that got us. So
shouldn't we get it done now so as not to have lost our investment?
Be consistent now. Shouldn't we conquer each and every hamlet in the
entire country and hunt down all the Muslims there? That's what you
said isn't it?
We already have honor murders and clitorectomies in
> America. Thanks to terror loving human trash like yourself.
Assault on children and murder are crimes. We have police and
prosecutors and judges and juries for such things. Send the perps to
the slammer. No mercy. No burqas either. But so far as your foreign
policy is concerned, you need to be more resolute. Join the infantry.
Earn that blue badge of courage. Live by example rather than filthy
exhortation with dubious motives.
You're a very excitable alarmist. Yes, the recommendation still
stands. Join the infantry. It will have a salutary effect on your
mind.
> >That's not what the U.S.M.C is for. That's aggressive, not defensive.
>
> Of course it's “aggressive” . For you , scum, the well being of our
> enemies is more important than 3,316 murdered by Muslims Americans on
> American soil.
Hardly, when a profoundly stupid scenerio like yours is on the table
I'l opt for the survival of hundreds of thousands and eventually
millions of military guys over 3,316 business bureaucrats in
Manhattan. That's the way humanists are. We count the dead and give
them each equality.
> > > Next. You tried to bring up Salafism as the only source of Muslim
> > > violence
>
> > I didn't do that.
>
> Yes you did , completely ignoring Muslim terror originating in 7th
> century along with spreading of Islam.
If you think you can find it go ahead and try. Just do it honestly.
Whining about the 7th Century expansion of Islam is not honest.
> > > as this trickery would give you unlimited chance to squawk
> > > about “Israeli crimes” and completely to shirk Muslim butchery in the
> > > past which has started right after Islam was invented.
Islam was "invented" by the same people who invented Judaism and
Christianity.
Israeli crimes are concrete and fully documented. Were we not
entangled with Israel and had we not become complicit in those crimes,
thus earning the hatred of the entire Muslim world, I would grumble
about it and write my Congressmen, but I sure as hell wouldn't be here
listening to fools like you. Listen up, supporting Israel uncritically
with blood, treasure and diplomatic clout while she committed these
crimes over decades as part of her effort to steal the Palestinian
homeland damaged our interests. It has been a catastrophe for the
United States. It's lost us three trillion in opportunity costs and
tens of thousands of casualties. What Israel has cost us directly and
indirectly is roughly a quarter of our national debt. None of this did
we "owe" to Israel. We didn't owe Israel anything except perhaps aid
if she were invaded and her existence were in danger. We didn't need
to do much if any of this stuff to defend her existence within the
green line. But we didn't have the guts to say "no" to Washington's
uniquely powerful ethnic lobby whose tactics were to literally corrupt
our system for generating foreign policy and to drive us into wars for
Israel. If you're a non-Jewish American, Staten, you're the most naive
specimen I've ever met. If you are Jewish I strongly urge you to join
the infantry and volunteer for duty in America's new crusade against
Islam wherever it may be found. Remember now, only the infantry will
do. Yes, face to face, man to man with those "Muslims." Nothing else
will redeem your soul.
I busted your
> > > hoax and now you whining about “context” and “citations” as if
> > > Armenian and Hindu genocides , that you call “alleged crimes in the
> > > remote past”, sound so incredible that it requires tons of contexts
> > > and citations .
The Muslims did not and could not have murdered 80,000,000 "Hindus". I
asked you to document that absurd claim and you failed to do so. The
Armenian genocide happened 95 years ago and the United States was not
culpable. In addition you're done nothing to prove you thesis that
Muslims have been more violent than, say, Christians for the last
1,400 years. Your so called proofs are bullshit, no more than spam and
poorly argued too.
>
> > > I understand that you are very unhappy that Israel was not “created”
> > > in 610 AD , along with inventing Islam, but in 1948. It would give you
> > > an excellent opportunity to whitewash all Islam's butcheries and
> > > crimes against humanity .
False and you make absolutely no sense anyway. Israel went out of
business 2,000 years ago. Go ahead, try to bring it up to date with
title to Palestine in Israeli Jews. If she doesn't get it together
almost immediately she's going to lose what she has gained so far,
i.e., a Jewish State in 78% of Palestine. Did you read the Mearsheimer
article? No, eh?
But you cannot re-write history simply
> > > because you hate Jews.
That's what you conclude from the fact that I won't let you get away
with demonizing Muslims. I do it because it is contrary to our
interests to demonize them as you and Ratner and sharavi do. And as is
being done currently by a large portion of the Lobby disinformation
machine.
You got to live with that and accept the fact
> > > that - Islam is the greatest mass murderer and annihilator of non-
> > > Muslims and their cultures ever seen in history of this sinful world.
You speak of "sin" too. Your ignorance is astounding. It's as if you
have neither any memory of the 20th Century nor of what I told you
just a week ago. Go ahead and prove that assertion if you think you
can. Don't forget the 80,000,000 Hindu murder victims.
> > > And Israel has nothing to do with that.
So what? She's a criminal state as we speak and we're complicit with
her. We've got to change that relationship. We shouldn't be hanging
around with criminal types. You got a problem with that?
>
> > I can do nothing about your accusation that I hate Jews.
>
> This is not my key point. Hating Jews is in your genes.
Not your key point indeed. Another lie. All you use is spam and ad
hominem slander. You don't defend against what I say. And what I say
is not in the least anti-Semitic. I condemn criminal and inhumane
behavior and doing that is not remotely anti-Semitic. In fact, haha,
it's downright righteous. I've given you invitations to make the anti-
Semitism case concretely and you can not. What you hate here is that
American intellectuals are not longer intimidated by this tactic. We
won't be silenced as was the case for decades before. Israel has made
herself into a pariah state by committing crimes continuously for 43
or 63 years depending on how one looks at it. What you're saying is
that when Israelis commit crimes they can't be censured, apparently
because they are Jews and censuring them is anti-Semitic. Or,
alternatively, when Israelis commit what would be crimes if committed
by others, they can't be deemed crimes at all. You're not going to get
away with it. We're going to extricate ourselves from this mess.
I don't care
> about that.
That's a lie. You use it continuously.
I care that you excusing and coddling our enemies trying
> to re-write history on behalf of Islam.
Coddling is not the opposite of a global American crusade against
Islam. You're not about coddling. You expressly call for an expansion
of the ME wars into a global American style counter-Jihad against
Islam itself.
> >You can do it continuously and there is no use even responding if I'm determined to
> > stay here.
>
> Who the fuck cares where you stay. Certainly not myself.
Don't change the subject. It was you playing the anti-Semitism card.
It's a slimy tactic, Statten. It's designed to shut people up, to make
them afraid to criticize Israeli state policy, policy which often is
well described as neo-fascist.
>
> >So I ignore it even if that's not without a price. But
> > i've expressed a lot of opinions on political issues here and you can
> > find no anti-Semitism in the lot of it.
>
> I don't give a fuck what you expressed and I don't care about your
> anti-Semitism either. I only interject when you shamelessly lying,
> fabricating tales and perverting history on behalf of Islam.
You haven't the history God gave a telephone pole. You incompetent to
argue the subject if only because you're impervious to questions of
cause and effect.
> >You hate my views and you badly wan't to drive me away by labeling me.
>
> Why?
It's your conflict of interest. You can't think in terms of the best
interests of the country.
Please stay as long as you wish.
You're a recent arrival. You'll be the bench mark.
> >We Americans are in the process of overcoming this filthy tactic of yours.
>
> Forget about “we Americans” ,
Not much chance of that. It's central to leashing the Israel lobby and
it's foreign client, Israel.
staten
wrote:
> On May 15, 6:48 pm, staten <state...@lycos.com> wrote:
> I want to see Osama bin Laden dance at the end of a rope after being
> captured by men of the 1st Mar Div.
…....And placed next to your dancing at the end of the rope lifeless
body as a good reminder to other American traitors.
> As to capitulation, if we're hurting ourselves with policies which are
> contrary to our own natural interests, it's hardly a capitulation to
> change what we're doing. It's pragmatism, realism.
Sure. For Muslims, their whores and jihad. And you are one of them .
Just a reminder.
>Error cries out for correction.
Indeed. Scum like yourself should be rotten in jail.
> He is even excited that they are “aimed at
>
> > the United States”! It's the absolute bottom of this quisling's
> > mentality. He not only sanctions the evil directed against America ,
> > he even gets excited about that . Why this terrorist loving piece
> > of human filth is not thrown to jail or not deported is beyond
> > comprehension.
>
> Where do you get the idea that I sanction the terrorism of the
> Resistance?
There is no “Resistance” . There is only terrorism.
>Only those who have other agendas such as a generalized
> war on Islam don't want to see it ended.
Islam and sharia already in America. I do want to see it ended.
>How are they going to get
> their BIGGER WAR if the provocations of the terrorists end? But as
> long as we're fighting it I want to understand its motivation so that
> we may effectively follow our interests.
I don't give a fuck what interests you having there in Jishadistan.
You are a traitor . They are terrorists. Both got to be destroyed.
That's in the best American interests.
>You want it to go on
> indefinitely so that another generation of American kids can join you
> (hopefully) in slogging the jungled foothills of the Himalayas looking
> for "Muslims."
We don't need to look for Muslims in Himalayas. They already here
waging jihad and destroying our country while we speak (like they do
it everywhere around the world) . But scums like yourself helping
them. Your place is in the electrical chair next to the same traitor
Herbert Hans Haupt.
>All I'm doing here is pointing out your
> misrepresentations of what Bin Laden says.
No. You are here to cheer up our enemies, to apologize terror and to
help them to wage clandestine and open jihad against America. You are
a traitor. Jihadi operative. You got to be deported to Jihadistan or
destroyed like the traitor Herbert Hans Haupt.
>I'm making good honest fun
> of your emotionalism,
Like dancing Mossad guys knowing in advance about 9/11? This is not a
fun. You are demented and superstitious. You believe in flying
pigs.
>even of your claim that you're not Jewish which
> I find incredible.
Muslims divide world on Muslims (Dar al-Islam) and infidels ( Dar al-
Harb). You divide humanity on Jew haters and Jews. Nothing in
between. You are demented and insane.
> As you've no understanding of what actually drives ME suicide
> terrorism, here again is a systematic study of it. Dr. Pape demolishes
> you. It's as if you were in his sights all along.
>
> http://www.danieldrezner.com/research/guest/Pape1.pdf
You repeat yourself again, bozo. I replied to you with the article
Contrasting Secular and Religious Terrorism. Read it , moron. It
shreds to bits your stupid superstitious tales – “good Islam attacks
us because bad Israel attacks Islam”. Arrogance and ignorance
blind the foolish. You are a joke.
staten
On May 15, 6:49 pm, staten <state...@lycos.com> wrote:
> On May 15, 12:20 am, "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>The traitors are the sleek, conflicted gentlemen of the Israel Lobby
>who intimidate and corrupt our legislators in war time on behalf of a
>foreign country who objectively behaves like our enemy.
Old superstitious tales. Today's Lobby is wearing turbans and bee
beekeepers outfits. Arab/Saudi money has infiltrated the media, the
universities, Hollywood,our publishing industry. Arab/Saudi
billions pouring into American and European universities. Arab/Saudi
money cultivate friendly "useful idiots" like yourself , who will
bow and prostrate and genuflect for their Arab/Muslim masters. It's
so disgusting and depressing. We are helping Muslims to build Sharia
with our own hands.
>They owe their
>obligation to America, not to Israel. And you've not been following
>the polls very well. Among my class, which matters most to me because
>it tends to be informed, I'm in a strong majority.
No kidding. In Jihadistan you surely are in a strong majority.
>Join the infantry, Staten. I did at age 17.
I have no slightest desire to serve in the Muslim Brotherhood
infantry? They are our enemies.
>No matter how old you are you need to grow up. Just think of the
>travel opportunities. Pakistan for example. You could personally
>conquer Islam in Pakistan.
No need to go to Pakistan. Islam already in America. Islam already is
waging open and stealthy jihad here.
> >So far as their region is concerned what they don't like is not our business.
> >Sharia already has been settled in in America . It is our prime
>> business to stop it from metastasizing further.
>Paranoid. We disestablished religion in the original Constitution. We
>have personal freedom of religion and no one can take it away from us.
>Yes, paranoid. You're trying to sell a global war against Islam.
>You've gone berserk.
Freedom of expression and religious liberty does not exist in America
anymore . Seditious agents of jihad , like yourself, sold it to
Islam.
Today Judaism and Christianity cannot be taught in schools of the
liberal West, but Islam can be and is.! While entertainers, academics
and pundits are free to criticize and attack Christianity and
Judaism, Islam is a No-Go Zone.
Comedy Central, forced into submission by Sharia law enforcement has
banned not only the image but even the word “Muahmmad” from its
programs. This isn't satire anymore, this is dhimminitude. The
artist's vision is subverted to the dictates of Shariah law.
A public transit authority in Florida took down banner
advertisements on buses that offer help to Muslims wanting to leave
their faith if they are abused by their Muslim families. What kind of
freedom is this if Islam is a top concern over anything else?
Sharia in our public school system turned into or a network of
madrassas.
Robert Bobb, special manager for Detroit Public Schools interviewed by
the Arab American News said :
" Detroit International Academy, made changes to accommodate Muslim
students from diet and dress code perspectives and also had prayer
rooms as well, which is a model that can be applied to future schools
if need be."
What is this if not a complete and unconditional surrender to sharia!
And this outrageous dhimmitude is sponsored by our tax-money! What's
that! Why? Is everyone in a coma?
Today our academia , media , Holliwood, government officials have
quickly learned basic sharia rules:
Islam cannot be criticized by any public figure(s) without violence
quickly following.
Islam cannot be criticized by the press without violence quickly
following.
No disrespect, real or perceived, towards Islam can be tolerated
either.
The denial, the submission, the excuses, the dodging, the self-
flagellation, the shame, the deceiving of the American people by the
media, the military, society, law enforcement, authorities and
politicians, all the way up to and it includes the White House today
as well. We are witnessing relentless Islamisation of America. This
is well beyond political correctness. This is the enforcement of
sharia law! This is the ultimate victory of Islam! We lost our
freedom! We need to get it back!
> of the world they live, they consider it “their region”.
>Bullshit. Having bad dreams? You're imagining things.
Unplug your ears and listen what they are saying in their own words,
gullible idiot:
“We may be small in number, but we have plenty fighting with us--the
angels and the hand of Allah. We dream of an entire Islamic world,
and we will achieve it. Allah is with us."
Abu Sayyaf group leader, Khadaffy Janjalani
That's why Muslims wage open and stealthy jihad in Europe and
America.
>> Fuck Afghanistan.
>That was my view but you are far more ambitious, a global crusade.
>Root 'em out, those Muslims!
>But to subdue Islam world wide, your project, we have to subdue
>Afghanistan sooner or later.
We need to subdue Islam first of all in America. Next project is to
subdue and throw in jail all Islam's seditious rats like yourself.
> America. Thanks to terror loving human trash like yourself.
>Assault on children and murder are crimes. We have police and
>prosecutors and judges and juries for such things. Send the perps to the slammer. No mercy. >No burqas either.
But all these prosecutors, judges and government bureaucrats
sheltering Islam from criticism or negative appraisals. They never
bring up crimes of Islam widely being displayed to public as they for
instance do it in cases when Christians are involved. There is a
deliberate cover-up by media and government officials who have
imposed the Islamic (sharia) law of slander across all systems of
communication. Our culture is being invaded! Our government does not
fight jihad and sharia at home!
>I'l opt for the survival of hundreds of thousands and eventually
>millions of military guys over 3,316 business bureaucrats in
>Manhattan.
That's exactly right. Dead 3,316 Americans is not your top concern.
Only Muslims. Scum.
>> Yes you did , completely ignoring Muslim terror originating in 7th
>> century along with spreading of Islam.
>If you think you can find it go ahead and try. Just do it honestly.
>Whining about the 7th Century expansion of Islam is not honest.
Ibn Ishaq (the first and best Muslim biography about Mohammad),
Muhammad personally lead at least these terrorist raids:
1.The raid on Waddan (his first raid according to Ibn Ishaq).
2.The raid on Buwat.
3.The raid on al-Ushayra (Quraysh)
4.The first raid on Badr.
5.The raid on the caravan (that became the second raid on - and the
battle of - Badr).
6.The raid on B. Sulayman in al-Kudr.
7.The raid on al-Sawiq
8.The raid on Najd. (Dhu Amarr).
9.The raid on Bahran near Al-Furu (Quraysh)
10.The raid of Dhatu`l-Riqa.
11.The raid of Dumatu`l-Jandal (in 627 AD).
12.The raid on B. Lihyan.
13.The raid on B. Mustaliq.
Since then Islamic terrorism and wars have not stopped for a single
day.
There is no records indicating Islam being peaceful with respect to
its infidel neigbors.
>If you're a non-Jewish American, Staten, you're the most naive
>specimen I've ever met.
Translation: anyone who stands up against Islam, jihad and
Islamization of America and Europe is “the most naïve specimen”. Is
Geert Wilders as well “naive specimen” to you?
>If you are Jewish I strongly urge you to join
>the infantry and volunteer for duty in America's new crusade against
>Islam wherever it may be found.
It is found in America and it loudly proclaims that it is here. Unplug
your ears and pull your head from your ass. IT IS HERE INDEED!
> > > hoax and now you whining about “context” and “citations” as if
> > > Armenian and Hindu genocides , that you call “alleged crimes in the
> > > remote past”, sound so incredible that it requires tons of contexts
> > > and citations .
>The Muslims did not and could not have murdered 80,000,000 "Hindus". I
>asked you to document that absurd claim and you failed to do so.
Koenard Elst in Negationism in India gives an estimate of 80 million
Hindus killed in the total jihad against India. [Koenard Elst,
Negationism in India, Voice of India, New Delhi, 2002, pg. 34.] The
country of India today is only half the size of ancient India, due to
jihad. The mountains near India are called the Hindu Kush, meaning
the
“funeral pyre of the Hindus.”
Buddhists .
Buddhists do not keep up with the history of war. Keep in mind that
in
jihad only Christians and Jews were allowed to survive as dhimmis
(servants to Islam); everyone else had to convert or die. Jihad
killed
the Buddhists in Turkey, Afghanistan, along the Silk Route, and in
India. The total is roughly 10 million. [David B. Barrett, Todd M.
Johnson, World Christian Trends AD 30-AD 2200, William Carey Library,
2001, p. 230, table 4-1.]
That's your beloved Islam, scummy . Enjoy.
>The Armenian genocide happened 95 years ago and the United States was not
>culpable.
Of course not . Because Muslims are culpable. Surprised? Don't. They
are guided by Islam. Murdering infidels is the first duty of
Muslims.
>In addition you're done nothing to prove you thesis that
>Muslims have been more violent than, say, Christians for the last
>1,400 years. Your so called proofs are bullshit, no more than spam and
>poorly argued too.
Christians did not murder 80 million Hindus and 10 million Buddhists.
Muslims did. Check your history, scummy. It stinks.
> > > because you hate Jews.
>That's what you conclude from the fact that I won't let you get away
>with demonizing Muslims.
Couldn't care less whether you hate them or not. It's not my business
to search for reasons why your old, freaking mind misfires and makes
you to bring up Jews and Israel each time I give you historical
evidences about Islam and Muslims mutually not related.
You are an old , screwed up crackpot filled with hatred and obsessed
with Jews and Israel . And this is your big problem - you cannot
think rationally. Perhaps it's too late to re-educate you . In fact
your mentality doesn't differ much from that of Muslims living in
Arabian deserts who fucking goats and beating their wives . I
wonder why you haven't converted to Islam yet? Or you have? If so,
accept my congratulations!
>I do it because it is contrary to our
>interests to demonize them as you and Ratner and sharavi do.
So what exactly you do , except of making a fool of yourself? Your ass
is constantly being beaten by the mentioned posters and by me on all
accounts – history, Judaism, Islam, politics. All you can afford is
just spreading your superstitions , stupid tales , like Mossad dancing
guys, and your senile peevish squawking about Israel blaming her for
all world's sins. That's all. Loser.
coaste...@yahoo.com
> Israel isn't fighting anyone's war against Islam, as there is no war
> > against Islam.
No no, of course not, she wants US to debilitate the Muslim World on
her behalf. But it's not for lack of trying by shills for Israel such
as Staten and Ratner. And by many, many more. It's the current leit
motif. Ratner and Staten live with their record. Perhaps you haven't
kept up. And they want the United States to fight a crusade against
Islam FOR Israel. Staten is astounding in both his lack of
sophistication and his chutzpah. Ostensibly from a Brazilian.
> It's apologists pretend it is on the front lines in the "war against
> terrorism" which is now being redefined as a war against Islam.
> Staten''s an exponent of it. It's the current Lobby shtick.
> ***
>
> Name one recognizable member of this 'lobby' who argues there is a war
> against Islam.
I didn't say "there is". You're trying to deflect. I've named two of
them above who want that to happen. They are colleagues of yours. They
meet M & W's definition as members of the lobby and spend a great deal
of time on the project, i.e., in the effort to support Israel
politically.
You can even use W&M's loose definition of the 'lobby' which
> includes anyone who ever spoke about Israel in any public forum.
You twist everything you touch. That's false. Would it be such a
catastrophe for you to be honest once in a while?
>
> Right now Israel isn't fighting any war at all,
True only in a very narrow sense. You are deceptive. The war against
the Palestinian people continues. The Occupation continues. The
refugees are still stateless. Conditions are worse in Gaza than they
were before the recent massacre. But you simply ignore this reality.
If a stone is thrown or a single rifle round is fired across the
concentration camp fence you whine about "terrorism". In fact the
Resistance wars against Israel. It gets stronger. And Israeli
stupidity gets greater.
but will be
>
> > if Hamas ever gets enough weapons and Hezbollah get's antsy and starts
> > another war.
Look, here's another example, hypocrite. Another war, indeed. The war
hasn't stopped for a minute since it began in 1947 with the
commencement of the Naqba. You apologists for Israeli crimes against
humanity always pretend that what Israel has taken at any given point
is Israel's and can never be contested legitimately again. That a
criminal point of view.
> The Israelis started that war to refresh their deterrent.
> ***
>
> LOL.
Nothing funny about it. And also to further grind down the Gazan
people, to cast them into utter despair on the theory that they will
give up and submit to apartheid and bantustanization.
Hezbollah crosses the border, kidnaps IDF,
Screw you, Shalit is a prisoner of war. He wasn't "kidnapped".
takes them back to Lebanon
> to be held as hostages,
"Hostage" is a very unsavory civilian term. Lenin kept hostages from
among civilians. Modern armies take POWs, not hostages. Israel doesn't
honor the code. She has thousands of hostages.
and yet Israel started the war! Even you can't be
> that asinine.
>
Israel began THE WAR with the Naqba and has pursued the Greater Israel
objective ever since.
> > You have interests in the Golan and West Bank to the extent your ally
> > Israel
> > does -
>
> Bullshit, no involuntary, derivative lockstep. America has no inherent
> national interest in the Golan or the West Bank.
> ***
>
> Not 'inherent', but as long as your ally does, then you do too.
Then we must dump the ally. In any event, Israel is not our ally. She
is a ball and chain, a liability, an albatross 'round the neck.
Objectively speaking, that is. In many ways she is our overt enemy in
the sense that she uses us, attacks us, steals from us and commits
espionage against us. Allies and friends don't do that. The Brits, for
example, are our allies. They don't do these things. Not only does she
do these things, but her supporters here in the U.S. also corrupt our
legislature and have usurped a slice of our very sovereignty.These are
all good reasons to reject what you say.
If she ever
> decides she doesn't need them anymore, then your interests end there.
It's our interests which are at stake. We're in the position of having
no choice but to decide for Israel that she doesn't "need" them
anymore. Need them, indeed. You should read Shir Hever.
The
> same thing works both ways. Israel now has an 'interest' in your success in
> Afghanistan, especially to the extent that Israel - as an important ally -
> provides research and development of US military systems which may lead to
> success in that theater.
See above. You purvey hasbara, El Senor Anglo-Saxon.
> ***
> They mean nothing to
> Americans and Israel can be defended without them. In fact the
> Israelis knew the 1967 War was over through intercepted radio
> transmissions when your general with the eye patch decided impulsively
> to send his armor up the slope to the heights. Read his memoir. In fact
> he also admits that that the famous Syrian artillery fire from the
> heights which Israel used as justification for taking the Golan, was
> mostly the result conscious Israeli provocations.
> ***
>
> At this point there is no reason for me to take one word you write of
> history as true. 'My general'?
Yes, your general. You are a Zionist. He's your Zionist general, not
ours or Canada's, certainly.
I don't think Canada had a general in fight
> in 1967, but I'll check my history books.
Where you stand is obvious. The degree to which you adhere to the
propaganda principles in detail and track, for example, the arguments
of Ratner---and follow him around the net like a puppy leaves no doubt
about it. There is no day light whatever between you as a Canadian and
Israel. If you were real there would be.
> especially the Golan which is of obvious strategic importance to
>
> > Israel.
>
> No it's not. It's not part of a 19th Century battlefield.
> ***
>
> Holding the high ground remains a tactical advantage, especially against a
> nation like Syria which is very much still part of a 19th century
> battlefield.
The Israeli military is not in fact afraid of artillery on the Golan.
Israel just wants to keep the Syrian land.
> Instead of this constant drum beating about how Israel is the cause
>
> > of Islamic terrorism directed against the US, a lie you tell as you know
> > it
> > isn't the truth,
>
> It's not the only cause. I've emphasized that over and over. We've
> made enemies on our own over there, certainly. But we're fighting
> Israel's enemies too. And we're seen as complicit in Israel's crimes.
> We can only deal with those problems by dealing with Israel.
> ****
>
> You can only deal with these problems by dealing with their causes,
As I say, dealing with Israel has been the greatest problem we face in
terms of engineering a peace. It's not complex. She doesn't want a
peace until her goals are fulfilled. War gives her a rationale for
continued expansion. But her ideological goals are not ours. The
relationship has been catastrophic for us.
yet you
> continue to show no knowledge of the causes at all. Hint, they don't have
> anything to do 'holy lands', 'army bases', or Israel. They have to do with
> an ideology that advocates destruction instead of negotiation.
And at its root is Islam of course. Or aren't you going to quite sign
up completely with the current Hasbara on that. Think hard now.
> you should spend some time learning about the ideology of
>
> > those who want to see you dead, or converted (actually the term they use
> > is
> > 'revert') to their religion.
There will not be peace with the Palestinians so long as you and the
Lobby can get away with this bullshit. There is as much violent,
prejudiced and ethnocentric bs in your religious books and commentary
as there is in Islam's. If this is to be Israel's rationale for
continued annexation, I can only conclude that it is dishonest and
that you reject a peace so long as you still have US support while
engaged in these continuing crimes. In other words the price for
refusing to make peace is not high enough. That's why I say we must
pressure Israel; we must give her Hunter's dreaded options regarding
our support for her. Let her take her choice. Maybe she's strong
enough to continue indefinitely as a bully in the Middle East by
herself. She can try it if she likes. If it turns out that the Israeli
people don't want that degree of autonomy, they then will have to pay
the price for the protective relationship. The price is compliance
with our interests.
>
> Hasbara.
> ***
>
Clip ad hominem crap.
>
> Designed to buy time to finish planting facts on the ground
> on the West Bank.
>
> Our interests there are not the same as Israel's. We can protect her
> without giving up any part of our sovereignty to her. A regional
> settlement is in our interests. They far outweigh whether Israel
> reaches her goal of a Greater Israel.
> ****
>
> You're still focused on an imaginary cause.
>
> > Even the most recent failed attack had nothing to do with Israel - Shazhad
> > was pissed about predator drone attacks killing his Pakistan Taliban
> > buddies. He wasn't in it for the Palestinians.
>
> Tiresome pedantry. We drove the Taliban out of Afghanistan because
> of 9/11--and in a burst of profound idiocy, STAYED to nation build
> when all that was at issue was hot pursuit of bin Laden.
> ***
>
> Hey, no one said your country's adventures in that country were well played.
> Canada has lost her share of sons and daughters as well.
Do you have an all volunteer army? How many Jewish Canadians have
served with us in the Middle East wars?
> ***
> We didn't
> capture him because Bush got distracted by the prospect of turning
> Iraq into a democracy to make the region safe for Israel..
> ***
>
> Again, Israel's safety had nothing to do with the decision to go into Iraq.
Read M & Walt. This is dealt with explicitly.
> If you're looking for a country's interests other than America or Iraq being
> served by that invasion start with Kuwait and work south along the coast.
Perhaps you don't know what sort of threat Israel thought Iraq
represented prior to 1990. Iran is a relative newcomer.
>
> One of bin
> Laden's central complaints against us was our uncritical enabling of
> Israel in the oppression of the Palestinians. It's also connected with
> Israel's efforts to exert hegemony in the region by bullying and
> implicit nuclear threats. There's plenty of connection with Israel.
> It's stupid to try to argue your way out of it. You should avoid the
> subject for the same reasons you avoid discussing Israel's right to
> ethnically cleanse Palestine and to erect a Jewish State.
> ***
>
> Palestinian propaganda, debunked by the VDH article I posted. And I don't
> avoid the discussion of Israel's right to ethnically cleanse palestine. They
> don't have a right to do that.
You mean they didn't have the right to do it in '47-'49 or in 1967 or
in the present? This was a mistake on your part. We'll check your
intellectual courage here.
But since there is no evidence they ever have
> or ever want to, it's a meaningless statement to make. Like saying I don't
> support their attempts to annex the moon.
Coming from a Zionist this is dishonest. Coming from a Jewish Zionist
it's worse.