Smear Intifada
dsharavi
WCFIA at Harvard on accusations »
Smear intifada
February 22, 2010
Electronic Intifada, a death-to-Israel website run by Ali Abunimah
(pictured right), says that in my Herzliya Conference speech, which I
posted two weeks ago, I “called for ‘the West’ to take measures to
curb the births of Palestinians, a proposal that appears to meet the
international legal definition of a call for genocide.” According to
the site, “Kramer proposed that the number of Palestinian children
born in the Gaza Strip should be deliberately curbed, and alleged that
this would ‘happen faster if the West stops providing pro-natal
subsidies to Palestinians with refugee status.’” The usual suspects,
Philip Weiss and M.J. Rosenberg, have jumped on the bandwagon. Being
accused of advocating genocide by people who daily call for Israel to
be wiped off the map of the Middle East is rich.
In my speech, I made no such “proposal.” The full quote:
"Aging populations reject radical agendas, and the Middle East is
no different. Now eventually, this will happen among the Palestinians
too, but it will happen faster if the West stops providing pro-natal
subsidies for Palestinians with refugee status. Those subsidies are
one reason why, in the ten years from 1997 to 2007, Gaza’s population
grew by an astonishing 40 percent. At that rate, Gaza’s population
will double by 2030, to three million. Israel’s present sanctions on
Gaza have a political aim—undermine the Hamas regime—but if they also
break Gaza’s runaway population growth—and there is some evidence that
they have—that might begin to crack the culture of martyrdom which
demands a constant supply of superfluous young men. That is rising to
the real challenge of radical indoctrination, and treating it at its
root."
I didn’t propose that Israel take a single additional measure beyond
the sanctions it now imposes with the political aim of undermining
Hamas. And I didn’t call on the West to “deliberately curb the births
of Palestinians.” I called on it to desist from deliberately
encouraging births through pro-natal subsidies for Palestinian
“refugees,” which guarantee that Gazans will remain both radicalized
and dependent. The Electronic Intifada claims that “neither the UN,
nor any other agencies, provide Palestinians with specifically ‘pro-
natal subsidies.’” This is a lie: UNWRA assures that every child with
“refugee” status will be fed and schooled regardless of the parents’
own resources, and mandates that this “refugee” status be passed from
generation to generation in perpetuity. Anywhere in the world, that
would be called a deliberate pro-natal policy. Electronic Intifada:
“Kramer appeared to be equating any humanitarian assistance at all
with inducement for Palestinians to reproduce.” Appears to whom? A pro-
natal subsidy is a national or international promise to support the
yet-unborn, not humanitarian assistance to the living. The pro-natal
subsidy in Gaza is the unlimited promise of hereditary “refugee”
status to future generations.
(Stopping pro-natal subsidies isn’t an original idea, and I credit
Gunnar Heinsohn for making a much more detailed case for it, in his
January 2009 Wall Street Journal Europe article, “Ending the West’s
Proxy War Against Israel: Stop funding a Palestinian youth bulge, and
the fighting will stop too.” He also coined the phrase “superfluous
young men.”)
Of course, Palestinian extremists and their sympathizers are quick to
throw the “genocide” charge against Israel, and so are some Israelis.
The late Tanya Reinhart once accused Israel of “slow genocide” against
the Palestinians—which, if it were Israel’s policy, must be counted
its most dismal failure, since population and life expectancy in the
West Bank and Gaza have grown by an astonishing rate since 1967. The
rise didn’t all result from Western subsidies (Heinsohn calls them
“unlimited welfare”), and employment of Palestinians in Israel played
a crucial role as well. But now the responsibility lies primarily with
the West. I will leave the final word to Heinsohn (who, by the way,
heads an institute for comparative genocide research):
"As long as we continue to subsidize Gaza’s extreme demographic
armament, young Palestinians will likely continue killing their
brothers or neighbors. And yet, despite claiming that it wants to
bring peace to the region, the West continues to make the population
explosion in Gaza worse every year. By generously supporting UNRWA’s
budget, the West assists a rate of population increase that is 10
times higher than in their own countries. Much is being said about
Iran waging a proxy war against Israel by supporting Hezbollah and
Hamas. One may argue that by fueling Gaza’s untenable population
explosion, the West unintentionally finances a war by proxy against
the Jews of Israel.
If we seriously want to avoid another generation of war in Gaza,
we must have the courage to tell the Gazans that they will have to
start looking after their children themselves, without UNRWA’s help."
Overnight addendum: I’m amused by my sudden overnight promotion to
Harvard preeminence (by bloggers—why not?), but I have to disappoint.
I’m not a “Harvard prof” (Rosenberg) or a “distinguished Harvard
professor” (Richard Silverstein). My own homepage records that I’m
presently a visiting scholar at Harvard’s Weatherhead Center (in the
National Security Studies Program). The purpose of visitorships is to
facilitate joint research between Weatherhead faculty and non-Harvard
colleagues; a visiting scholar must hold a regular academic
appointment somewhere else. I enjoy my Harvard research and library
privileges. But I’ve never taught at Harvard, I’m not there now, and I
don’t use the Harvard affiliation as an identifier on this Sandbox
blog. For that, I rely solely on my permanent affiliations. So my
rapid promotion at Harvard is really just a stunt by demagogues to
attract attention, and the wild exaggeration is of a piece with all
they produce. (Still, it was flattering…)
Further update: The directors of the Weatherhead Center at Harvard:
“Accusations have been made that Martin Kramer’s statements are
genocidal. These accusations are baseless.” Full text here.
http://www.martinkramer.org/sandbox/2010/02/wcfia-at-harvard-accusations-are-baseless/
http://www.martinkramer.org/sandbox/2010/02/smear-intifada/
Another idea is to offer any Pal female between the ages of 16 and 40
US$1,000 if she opts for a free tubal ligation.
Deborah
fla...@verizon.net
Susan
coaste...@yahoo.com
>
> http://www.martinkramer.org/sandbox/2010/02/smear-intifada/
>
> Another idea is to offer any Pal female between the ages of 16 and 40
> US$1,000 if she opts for a free tubal ligation.
>
> Deborah
Yes, someone is:
The World’s Nastiest Genocide Scholar
February 24th, 2010 | Printable version |
Share or recommend
Daniel Luban
On Monday, the Electronic Intifada (EI) website published a report on
a speech that right-wing Middle East scholar Martin Kramer gave at
Israel’s Herzliya security conference earlier this month. In the
speech, Kramer called for a cut-off of United Nations Relief and Works
Agency (UNRWA) humanitarian aid to Palestinian refugees, and endorsed
Israel’s ongoing siege of the territory, on the grounds that these
measures would help curb the allegedly excessive Palestinian birth
rate. “Israel’s present sanctions on Gaza have a political aim—
undermine the Hamas regime—but if they also break Gaza’s runaway
population growth—and there is some evidence that they have—that might
begin to crack the culture of martyrdom which demands a constant
supply of superfluous young men,” Kramer said. The EI report argues
that Kramer’s statement “appears to meet the international legal
definition of a call for genocide,” since the 1948 UN Genocide
Convention defines the term to include “imposing measures intended to
prevent births within the group” that is targeted. Kramer has
responded to the charges here, although he does not help his case by
accusing his critics of being “death-to-Israel” types who “daily call
for Israel to be wiped off the map.”
However, as Kramer admits, the idea of slashing the Palestinian
birthrate by ending UNRWA aid does not originate with him, and he
“credit[s] Gunnar Heinsohn for making a much more detailed case for
it,” as well as for coining the term “superfluous young men.”
Heinsohn, a German academic at the University of Bremen, made the case
in more depth in a Wall Street Journal op-ed published in January
2009, at the height of the Gaza war. I meant to write about Heinsohn’s
article at the time, but the Kramer controversy is as good a time as
any to revisit it. (The New Left Review has more background on
Heinsohn and his politics.)
Heinsohn argued that by providing humanitarian relief to the
population of Gaza, UNRWA (and by extension its western funders) are
fueling a “youth bulge” that provided a steady supply of violent and
superfluous young men, and thus the West is “unintentionally
financ[ing] a war by proxy against the Jews of Israel.” He called for
UNRWA to end assistance to Gazans born from now on, although (perhaps
to avoid the grim implications of his argument) he refrained from
calling for a cut-off of aid to already living Gazans. Still, the
UNRWA humanitarian aid has been virtually the only thing keeping the
population of Gaza alive since the imposition of the blockade, and it
is not clear what Heinsohn imagines will happen to Gazan children born
under the siege who are denied UNRWA aid. (Or perhaps it is clear, but
not terribly pleasant to think about.) Whether or not Heinsohn’s
proposed policies meet a legal definition of genocide, these sorts of
population-control measures targeting “undesirable” ethnic groups have
a revolting history, and have been a hallmark of fascist regimes in
particular; such ideas, as Leon Wieseltier recently wrote in a very
different context, have “a provenance that should disgust all thinking
people.”
What’s the punch line? According to his bio, Heinsohn is the head of
something called the “Raphael Lemkin Institute” at the University of
Bremen, which bills itself as “Europe’s first institute devoted to
comparative genocide research.” Lemkin, of course, was the Polish-
Jewish lawyer who fled the Nazis, coined the word “genocide,” and
figured as one of the heroes in Samantha Power’s book A Problem From
Hell.
The fact that the head of an institute bearing Raphael Lemkin’s name
is calling for these frankly fascistic population control measures
against the Palestinians is among the most revealing signs of the way
that the memory of the Holocaust has been abused by a particular
strand of militarist and virulently racist right-wing politics.
coaste...@yahoo.com
--------------------------------------------------
dsha...@yahoo.com
> Fabulous article - glad someone's at least trying to keep them honest.
> Susan
Gallant effort, lost cause.
Deborah
> >http://www.martinkramer.org/sandbox/2010/02/wcfia-at-harvard-accusati...
dsha...@yahoo.com
wrote:
A faked version which Kramer - and Harvard - have refuted.
[flush drek]
Deborah
The Revd
>Fabulous article - glad someone's at least trying to keep them honest.
>
>Susan
Lick, lick.
Zev
wrote:
The following is copied from the wsj article,
mentioned above and published 2 years ago.
It was posted, around that time, by DoD.
The problem is sociological, screaming "Fascist"
won't help you here, even if it were true.
quote:
As the world decries Israel's attempt to defend itself from the rocket
attacks coming from Gaza, consider this: When Hamas routed Fatah in
Gaza in 2007, it cost nearly 350 lives and 1,000 wounded. Fatah's
surrender brought only a temporary stop to the type of violence and
bloodshed that are commonly seen in lands where at least 30% of the
male population is in the 15-to-29 age bracket.
In such "youth bulge" countries, young men tend to eliminate each
other or get killed in aggressive wars until a balance is reached
between their ambitions and the number of acceptable positions
available in their society. In Arab nations such as Lebanon (150,000
dead in the civil war between 1975 and 1990) or Algeria (200,000 dead
in the Islamists' war against their own people between 1999 and 2006),
the slaughter abated only when the fertility rates in these countries
fell from seven children per woman to fewer than two. The warring
stopped because no more warriors were being born.
In Gaza, however, there has been no demographic disarmament. The
average woman still bears six babies. For every 1,000 men aged 40-44,
there are 4,300 boys aged 0-4 years. In the U.S. the latter figure is
1,000, and in the U.K. it's only 670.
And so the killing continues. In 2005, when Israel was still an
occupying force, Gaza lost more young men to gang fights and crime
than in its war against the "Zionist enemy." Despite the media's
obsession with the Mideast conflict, it has cost many fewer lives than
the youth bulges in West Africa, Lebanon or Algeria. In the six
decades since Israel's founding, "only" some 62,000 people (40,000
Arabs, 22,000 Jews) have been killed in all the Israeli-Arab wars and
Palestinian terror attacks. During that same time, some 11 million
Muslims have been killed in wars and terror attacks -- mostly at the
hands of other Muslims.
What accounts for the Mideast conflict's relatively low body count?
Hamas and their ilk certainly aim to kill as many Israelis as
possible. To their indignation, the Israelis are quite good at
protecting themselves. On the other hand, Israel, despite all the talk
about its "disproportionate" use of force, is doing its utmost to
spare civilian deaths. Even Hamas acknowledges that most of the
Palestinians killed by Israeli air raids are from their own ranks. But
about 10%-15% of Gaza's casualties are women and minors -- a tragedy
impossible to prevent in a densely settled area in which nearly half
the people are under 15 and the terrorists hide among them.
The reason for Gaza's endless youth bulge is that a large majority of
its population does not have to provide for its offspring. Most babies
are fed, clothed, vaccinated and educated by UNRWA, the United Nations
Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East.
Unlike the U.N. High Commission for Refugees, which deals with the
rest of the world's refugees and aims to settle them in their
respective host countries, UNRWA perpetuates the Palestinian problem
by classifying as refugees not only those who originally fled their
homes, but all of their descendents as well.
UNRWA is benevolently funded by the U.S. (31%) and the European Union
(nearly 50%) -- only 7% of the funds come from Muslim sources. Thanks
to the West's largesse, nearly the entire population of Gaza lives in
a kind of lowly but regularly paid dependence. One result of this
unlimited welfare is an endless population boom. Between 1950 and
2008, Gaza's population has grown from 240,000 to 1.5 million. The
West basically created a new Near Eastern people in Gaza that at
current trends will reach three million in 2040. Within that period,
Gazans may alter the justifications and directions of their aggression
but are unlikely to stop the aggression itself.
The Hamas-Fatah truce of June 2007 allowed the Islamists again to
direct all their energy on attacking Israel. The West pays for food,
schools, medicine and housing, while Muslim nations help out with the
military hardware. Unrestrained by such necessities as having to earn
a living, the young have plenty of time on their hands for digging
tunnels, smuggling, assembling missiles and firing 4,500 of them at
Israel since 2006. While this gruesome activity has slowed the
Palestinian internecine slaughter, it forced some 250,000 Israelis
into bomb shelters.
The current situation can only get worse. Israel is being pushed into
a corner. Gazan teenagers have no future other than war. One rocket
master killed is immediately replaced by three young men for whom a
martyr's death is no less honorable than victory. Some 230,000 Gazan
males, aged 15 to 29, who are available for the battlefield now, will
be succeeded by 360,000 boys under 15 (45% of all Gazan males) who
could be taking up arms within the coming 15 years.
As long as we continue to subsidize Gaza's extreme demographic
armament, young Palestinians will likely continue killing their
brothers or neighbors. And yet, despite claiming that it wants to
bring peace to the region, the West continues to make the population
explosion in Gaza worse every year. By generously supporting UNRWA's
budget, the West assists a rate of population increase that is 10
times higher than in their own countries. Much is being said about
Iran waging a proxy war against Israel by supporting Hezbollah and
Hamas. One may argue that by fueling Gaza's untenable population
explosion, the West unintentionally finances a war by proxy against
the Jews of Israel.
If we seriously want to avoid another generation of war in Gaza, we
must have the courage to tell the Gazans that they will have to start
looking after their children themselves, without UNRWA's help. This
would force Palestinians to focus on building an economy instead of
freeing them up to wage war. Of course, every baby lured into the
world by our money up to now would still have our assistance.
If we make this urgently needed reform, then by at least 2025 many
boys in Gaza -- like in Algeria -- would enter puberty as only sons.
They would be able to look forward to a more secure future in a less
violent society.
If the West prefers calm around Gaza even before 2025, it may consider
offering immigration to those young Palestinians only born because of
the West's well-meant but cruelly misguided aid. In the decades to
come, North America and Europe will have to take in tens of millions
of immigrants anyway to slow the aging of their populations. If, say,
200,000 of them are taken from the 360,000 boys coming of age in Gaza
in the next 15 years, that would be a negligible move for the big
democracies but a quantum leap for peace in the Near East.
Many of Gaza's young -- like in much of the Muslim world -- dream of
leaving anyway. Who would not want to get out of that strip of land
but the international NGOs and social workers whose careers depend on
perpetuating Gaza's misery?
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123171179743471961.html
The Peeler
> On Thu, 4 Mar 2010 19:20:58 GMT, flav...@verizon.net wrote:
>
>>Fabulous article - glad someone's at least trying to keep them honest.
>>
>>Susan
>
> Lick, lick.
Awww, the abused puppy is begging for its mistress' attention! <G>
--
Retarded, subnormal and extremely proud of it: our resident psychopath, The
Retd!
dsharavi
Answer: Israel.
I knew the numbers were relatively low, but not this low.
> Hamas and their ilk certainly aim to kill as many Israelis as
> possible. To their indignation, the Israelis are quite good at
> protecting themselves. On the other hand, Israel, despite all the talk
> about its "disproportionate" use of force, is doing its utmost to
> spare civilian deaths. Even Hamas acknowledges that most of the
> Palestinians killed by Israeli air raids are from their own ranks. But
> about 10%-15% of Gaza's casualties are women and minors -- a tragedy
> impossible to prevent in a densely settled area in which nearly half
> the people are under 15 and the terrorists hide among them.
>
> The reason for Gaza's endless youth bulge is that a large majority of
> its population does not have to provide for its offspring. Most babies
> are fed, clothed, vaccinated and educated by UNRWA, the United Nations
> Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East.
> Unlike the U.N. High Commission for Refugees, which deals with the
> rest of the world's refugees and aims to settle them in their
> respective host countries, UNRWA perpetuates the Palestinian problem
> by classifying as refugees not only those who originally fled their
> homes, but all of their descendents as well.
>
> UNRWA is benevolently funded by the U.S. (31%) and the European Union
> (nearly 50%) -- only 7% of the funds come from Muslim sources.
That's better than it used to be. For decades, from its inception, 25%
of UNRWA's funding came from the UK, and 75% from the US. Good to know
the figures have shrunk. And 99% of UNRWA's employees are
Palestinians.
Excellent post, thanks for putting it up.
Deborah
fla...@verizon.net
On 5-Mar-2010, The Peeler <peeli...@invalid.admin> wrote:
> On Fri, 05 Mar 2010 05:54:29 GMT, The Retd, our resident psychopath,wrote:
>
> > On Thu, 4 Mar 2010 19:20:58 GMT, flav...@verizon.net wrote:
> >
> >>Fabulous article - glad someone's at least trying to keep them honest.
> >>
> >>Susan
> >
> > Lick, lick.
EEEW!
I take it back about him being more honest about his
sexual antics - let him *stay* inhibited!
> Awww, the abused puppy is begging for its mistress' attention! <G>
Oh - is it that innocuous?
You know what a sleazebag he is - I just assumed, given who it was...
Susan
The Revd
>
>On 5-Mar-2010, The Peeler <peeli...@invalid.admin> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 05 Mar 2010 05:54:29 GMT, The Retd, our resident psychopath,wrote:
>>
>> > On Thu, 4 Mar 2010 19:20:58 GMT, flav...@verizon.net wrote:
>> >
>> >>Fabulous article - glad someone's at least trying to keep them honest.
>> >>
>> >>Susan
>> >
>> > Lick, lick.
>
>EEEW!
>I take it back about him being more honest about his
>sexual antics - let him *stay* inhibited!
How much jew ass have you licked this week, KKKohen?
Lots, by the looks of it!
Have you stopped observing the jew shabbos, KKKohen?
It was way past Friday sundown when you posted this. Soon, you'll be
like jew hubby Gary, driving your car to be serviced on Saturdays!
Which, of course, being an Ir*sh shitske, you;re allowed to do!
partisan
> On Fri, 05 Mar 2010 05:54:29 GMT, The Retd, our resident psychopath,wrote:
>
>
> >>Fabulous article - glad someone's at least trying to keep them honest.
>
> >>Susan
>
> > Lick, lick.
>
> Awww, the abused puppy is begging for its mistress' attention! <G>
>
> --
> Retarded, subnormal and extremely proud of it: our resident psychopath, The
> Retd!
I WONDER HOW MANY TIMES REVD ABUSED HIS SOCIAL WORKER?
The Revd
wrote:
>On Mar 5, 1:10=A0pm, The Peeler <peeling...@invalid.admin> wrote:
>> On Fri, 05 Mar 2010 05:54:29 GMT, The Retd, our resident psychopath,wrote=
>:
>>
>> > On Thu, 4 Mar 2010 19:20:58 GMT, flavi...@verizon.net wrote:
>>
>> >>Fabulous article - glad someone's at least trying to keep them honest.
>>
>> >>Susan
>>
>> > Lick, lick.
>>
>> Awww, the abused puppy is begging for its mistress' attention! <G>
>>
>> --
>> Retarded, subnormal and extremely proud of it: our resident psychopath, T=
>he
>> Retd!
>
>
> I WONDER HOW MANY TIMES REVD ABUSED HIS SOCIAL WORKER?
I WONDER HOW MANY TIME XXARAB ABUSE HIS REBBE AND HIS MILIONER ONCLE?
SHABAT SHALOM, A"H!
The Peeler
<no snip of usual psychotic garbage, just for laughs>
> How much jew ass have you licked this week, KKKohen?
> Lots, by the looks of it!
>
> Have you stopped observing the jew shabbos, KKKohen?
> It was way past Friday sundown when you posted this. Soon, you'll be
> like jew hubby Gary, driving your car to be serviced on Saturdays!
> Which, of course, being an Ir*sh shitske, you;re allowed to do!
Brilliant, psycho!!! You post this sort shit because you are medicated or
because you are NOT medicated? LOL
The Peeler
That's not his style, partisan! I wonder how many times he ASKED his social
worker to abuse HIM! ;-)
The Peeler
> I WONDER HOW MANY TIME XXARAB ABUSE HIS REBBE AND HIS MILIONER ONCLE?
>
> SHABAT SHALOM, A"H!
<BG> F'up to alt.idiots
--
Retarded, subnormal and extremely proud of it: our resident psychopath, The
Retd!
The Revd
<peeli...@invalid.admin> wrote:
>On Sat, 06 Mar 2010 07:09:43 GMT, The Retd, our resident psychopath, wrote:
>
><no snip of usual psychotic garbage, just for laughs>
>
>
>> How much jew ass have you licked this week, KKKohen?
>> Lots, by the looks of it!
>>
>> Have you stopped observing the jew shabbos, KKKohen?
>> It was way past Friday sundown when you posted this. Soon, you'll be
>> like jew hubby Gary, driving your car to be serviced on Saturdays!
>> Which, of course, being an Ir*sh shitske, you;re allowed to do!
>
>Brilliant, psycho!!! You post this sort shit because you are medicated or
>because you are NOT medicated? LOL
And didn't I just ask about pidgin English? Here you are, folks! An
excellent example! LOL
<Bugger Grease>
The Peeler
Answer the question, psycho: are you forced to make a complete ass of
yourself on Usenet around the clock because you ARE medicated, or because
you are NOT medicated, The Retd? <BG>
--
More info on The Retd's mental problems:
http://www.borderlinepersonality.ca/borderprojection.htm
fla...@verizon.net
On 6-Mar-2010, The Peeler <peeli...@invalid.admin> wrote:
> On Sat, 06 Mar 2010 07:09:43 GMT, The Retd, our resident psychopath,
> wrote:
>
> <no snip of usual psychotic garbage, just for laughs>
>
>
> > How much jew ass have you licked this week, KKKohen?
> > Lots, by the looks of it!
> >
Stars with the projecting...
> > Have you stopped observing the jew shabbos, KKKohen?
> > It was way past Friday sundown when you posted this.
--- & moves right into the lies.
I see he has a new one.
> >
> Soon, you'll be
> > like jew hubby Gary, driving your car to be serviced on Saturdays!
But I see he won't let go of any of the old ones.
> > Which, of course, being an Ir*sh shitske, you;re allowed to do!
>
*None* of the old ones.
> Brilliant, psycho!!! You post this sort shit because you are medicated or
> because you are NOT medicated? LOL
>
You know, that's an *excellent* question!
Susan
fla...@verizon.net
On 6-Mar-2010, The Peeler <peeli...@invalid.admin> wrote:
> >>Brilliant, psycho!!! You post this sort shit because you are
> >>medicated or because you are NOT medicated? LOL
> >
> > And didn't I just ask about pidgin English? Here you are, folks! An
> > excellent example! LOL
> >
Of course (he has no choice about that) but
why didn't he address what YOU wrote!?
Oh, silly question...!
>
> > <Bugger Grease>
He should stop flirting with you - you've
made it clear you're not interested.
> Answer the question, psycho: are you forced to make a complete ass of
> yourself on Usenet around the clock because you ARE medicated, or because
> you are NOT medicated,
I suppose he will dodge this like he does all the facts he finds unpleasant.
Susan
> The Retd? <BG>
The Revd
>
>On 6-Mar-2010, The Peeler <peeli...@invalid.admin> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 06 Mar 2010 07:09:43 GMT, The Retd, our resident psychopath,
>> wrote:
>>
>> <no snip of usual psychotic garbage, just for laughs>
>>
>>
>> > How much jew ass have you licked this week, KKKohen?
>> > Lots, by the looks of it!
>> >
>Stars with the projecting...
NOTE: NO REFUTATION.
>> > Have you stopped observing the jew shabbos, KKKohen?
>> > It was way past Friday sundown when you posted this.
>
>--- & moves right into the lies.
>I see he has a new one.
The facts speak for themselves, KKKohen.
>> >
>> Soon, you'll be
>> > like jew hubby Gary, driving your car to be serviced on Saturdays!
>
>But I see he won't let go of any of the old ones.
It;s in his livejournal b'log, KKKohen!
http://rudolfrassen.livejournal.com
LOL
The Peeler
<snip the usual psychotic blather>
...and our miserable psycho keeps following mommy around, tied to her
apron strings, trying not to miss any word from her! LMAO!
The Peeler
>> Answer the question, psycho: are you forced to make a complete ass of
>> yourself on Usenet around the clock because you ARE medicated, or because
>> you are NOT medicated,
>
> I suppose he will dodge this like he does all the facts he finds unpleasant.
>
> Susan
Spot on! ;-)
Toad Hall
"dsharavi" <dsha...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:9e9ff657-dd02-4965...@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
drahcir
<snip>
> The full quote:
>
> "Aging populations reject radical agendas, and the Middle East is
> no different. Now eventually, this will happen among the Palestinians
> too, but it will happen faster if the West stops providing pro-natal
> subsidies for Palestinians with refugee status. Those subsidies are
> one reason why, in the ten years from 1997 to 2007, Gaza’s population
> grew by an astonishing 40 percent.
Let's not forget another reason: ISRAELI GENOCIDE!!!!!!!!!!
> genocidal. These accusations are baseless.” Full text here.http://www.martinkramer.org/sandbox/2010/02/wcfia-at-harvard-accusati...
drahcir
<snip>
>
> And so the killing continues. In 2005, when Israel was still an
> occupying force, Gaza lost more young men to gang fights and crime
> than in its war against the "Zionist enemy." Despite the media's
> obsession with the Mideast conflict, it has cost many fewer lives than
> the youth bulges in West Africa, Lebanon or Algeria. In the six
> decades since Israel's founding, "only" some 62,000 people (40,000
> Arabs, 22,000 Jews) have been killed in all the Israeli-Arab wars and
> Palestinian terror attacks. During that same time, some 11 million
> Muslims have been killed in wars and terror attacks -- mostly at the
> hands of other Muslims.
well, yes, of course, but we *expect* muslims to be killing each
other, so it really doesn't get anyone bent out of shape.
>
> What accounts for the Mideast conflict's relatively low body count?
> Hamas and their ilk certainly aim to kill as many Israelis as
> possible. To their indignation, the Israelis are quite good at
> protecting themselves. On the other hand, Israel, despite all the talk
> about its "disproportionate" use of force, is doing its utmost to
> spare civilian deaths. Even Hamas acknowledges that most of the
> Palestinians killed by Israeli air raids are from their own ranks. But
> about 10%-15% of Gaza's casualties are women and minors -- a tragedy
> impossible to prevent in a densely settled area in which nearly half
> the people are under 15 and the terrorists hide among them.
>
> The reason for Gaza's endless youth bulge is ...
>
> read more »
drahcir
Zev
> Good post. You should mention the author, however:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunnar_Heinsohn
It's in the Wall Street Journal article I quoted from:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123171179743471961.html
But you're right, I could have included the name of the author.
coaste...@yahoo.com
The EI article was accurate. The smears, such as this one, come from
the radical, Zionist-Israeli Kramer who for two years was embedded at
Harvard to use its prestige as part of the ongoing effort to subvert
our policy in the Middle East. I have written about this elsewhere.
> February 22, 2010
>
> Electronic Intifada, a death-to-Israel website run by Ali Abunimah
> (pictured right), says that in my Herzliya Conference speech, which I
> posted two weeks ago, I “called for ‘the West’ to take measures to
> curb the births of Palestinians, a proposal that appears to meet the
> international legal definition of a call for genocide.”
Kramer's first sentence is fraught with misrepresentations:
Electric Intifada is in fact a very good source of objective
information on Israeli policy and her criminal behavior in the
Occupied Territories. It is of course anti-Zionist but then
geometrically increasing numbers of American and Europeans opinion-
makers are too. Israel has turned herself into a pariah state. The
ONLY way she continues to get away with it is by subverting the
American Congress and Administrations using obscene amounts of money,
fear and vicious tactics.
I've never found EI to use "death to Israel" rhetoric or ideology.
Perhaps it has, but I've never seen it and I doubt you have either,
Deborah. Give us an url. Kramer's bogeyman Ali Abunimah is a very
intelligent and thoughtful man, a hero to his people.
And of course it was a call for "the West" to take measures to curb
births of Palestinians. It specifically involved the withdrawal of
food and the food comes from the West via the UN where Western
influence dominates.
> According to the site, “Kramer proposed that the number of Palestinian children
> born in the Gaza Strip should be deliberately curbed, and alleged that
> this would ‘happen faster if the West stops providing pro-natal
> subsidies to Palestinians with refugee status.’”
All of which is perfectly true, but this does not dissuade Kramer, ala
sharavi, from hoping he
can convince the reader that it is not by insulting:
> The usual suspects, Philip Weiss and M.J. Rosenberg,
alleging that they "have jumped on the bandwagon."
But a mere cliche such as that is inadequate for the likes of Mr.
Kramer. He goes on to assert
that Rosenberg and Weiss "daily call" for Israel to be wiped off the
map of the Middle East.
>
> In my speech, I made no such “proposal.” The full quote:
>
> "Aging populations reject radical agendas,
Which of course is an admission that the Palestinian "agenda," i.e.,
an independent state, motivates Kramer's genocidal proposal.
and the Middle East is
> no different. Now eventually, this will happen among the Palestinians
> too, but it will happen faster if the West stops providing pro-natal
> subsidies for Palestinians with refugee status. Those subsidies are
> one reason why, in the ten years from 1997 to 2007, Gaza’s population
> grew by an astonishing 40 percent. At that rate, Gaza’s population
> will double by 2030, to three million.
Bizarre, but cunning.
P. 1: Given an adequate diet and left to govern their lives
themselves, Palestinians have large families.
P. 2: It is contrary to Zionism's expansionist goals that Palestinians
have large families.
THEREFORE, the UN must stop giving Palestinians enough to eat.
Israel’s present sanctions on
> Gaza have a political aim—undermine the Hamas regime—but if they also
> break Gaza’s runaway population growth—and there is some evidence that
> they have—that might begin to crack the culture of martyrdom which
> demands a constant supply of superfluous young men. That is rising to
> the real challenge of radical indoctrination, and treating it at its
> root."
P. 1: Israel says its political aim is to undermine Hamas.
P. 2: Israel doesn't admit that the purpose of the blockade is also to
starve the Palestinians so that they are perennially poor, weak,
sickly, infertile and easy to oppress.
THEREFORE, and for *both* good and sufficient reasons the West and the
UN must see to it that the Palestinians are given no more food.
> I didn’t propose that Israel take a single additional measure beyond
> the sanctions it now imposes with the political aim of undermining
> Hamas. And I didn’t call on the West to “deliberately curb the births
> of Palestinians.” I called on it to desist from deliberately
> encouraging births through pro-natal subsidies for Palestinian
> “refugees,” which guarantee that Gazans will remain both radicalized
> and dependent.
P. 1: Israeli sanctions are enough to ensure the Palestinians are
permanently poor, weak, sickly, infertile and easy to oppress even if
Hamas is not undermined.
P. 2: However the UN and the West interfere with this good work.
P. 3: And besides there was a Jewish Holocaust in the 1940s.
THEREFORE: at the demand of Israel the UN and the West must stop
interfering and follow Israel's lead in starving the Palestinians.
The Electronic Intifada claims that “neither the UN,
> nor any other agencies, provide Palestinians with specifically ‘pro-
> natal subsidies.’” This is a lie: UNWRA assures that every child with
> “refugee” status will be fed and schooled regardless of the parents’
> own resources, and mandates that this “refugee” status be passed from
> generation to generation in perpetuity. Anywhere in the world, that
> would be called a deliberate pro-natal policy. Electronic Intifada:
> “Kramer appeared to be equating any humanitarian assistance at all
> with inducement for Palestinians to reproduce.” Appears to whom? A pro-
> natal subsidy is a national or international promise to support the
> yet-unborn, not humanitarian assistance to the living. The pro-natal
> subsidy in Gaza is the unlimited promise of hereditary “refugee”
> status to future generations.
>
> (Stopping pro-natal subsidies isn’t an original idea, and I credit
> Gunnar Heinsohn for making a much more detailed case for it, in his
> January 2009 Wall Street Journal Europe article, “Ending the West’s
> Proxy War Against Israel: Stop funding a Palestinian youth bulge, and
> the fighting will stop too.” He also coined the phrase “superfluous
> young men.”)
Is there safety in numbers here? Can't you see Hitler in the dock at
Nuremberg saying to the judges, "It wasn't my idea. It was
Himmler's."
> Of course, Palestinian extremists and their sympathizers are quick to
> throw the “genocide” charge against Israel, and so are some Israelis.
So, Kramer's problem is the critics' "quickness" to condemn genocidal
proposals? Isn't this a bit strange coming from a Jew?
> The late Tanya Reinhart once accused Israel of “slow genocide” against
> the Palestinians—which, if it were Israel’s policy, must be counted
> its most dismal failure, since population and life expectancy in the
> West Bank and Gaza have grown by an astonishing rate since 1967.
"Damn it! Slow genocide didn't work.
The
> rise didn’t all result from Western subsidies (Heinsohn calls them
> “unlimited welfare”), and employment of Palestinians in Israel played
> a crucial role as well.
Ha. I didn't focus on this the first time around. Of course,
unemployment contributes to starvation, especially in an imprisoned
population.
But now the responsibility lies primarily with
> the West. I will leave the final word to Heinsohn (who, by the way,
> heads an institute for comparative genocide research):
I'll bet he does. Gotta keep on top of the world-class status.
> "As long as we continue to subsidize Gaza’s extreme demographic
> armament, young Palestinians will likely continue killing their
> brothers or neighbors. And yet, despite claiming that it wants to
> bring peace to the region, the West continues to make the population
> explosion in Gaza worse every year. By generously supporting UNRWA’s
> budget, the West assists a rate of population increase that is 10
> times higher than in their own countries. Much is being said about
> Iran waging a proxy war against Israel by supporting Hezbollah and
> Hamas. One may argue that by fueling Gaza’s untenable population
> explosion, the West unintentionally finances a war by proxy against
> the Jews of Israel.
Poor Israel, the only world-class victim minority. None other need
even apply. She wanted the West Bank so much and because of the
Holocaust had an obvious right to choose any country she wished for
her Zion. Now she has been betrayed by the outside world.
> If we seriously want to avoid another generation of war in Gaza,
> we must have the courage to tell the Gazans that they will have to
> start looking after their children themselves, without UNRWA’s help."
Read, *"WE"* must have the courage to tell the Gazans that they must
capitulate or be starved. Really, it's in their best interests and
only fair to tell them in advance.
> Overnight addendum: I’m amused by my sudden overnight promotion to
> Harvard preeminence (by bloggers—why not?), but I have to disappoint.
> I’m not a “Harvard prof” (Rosenberg) or a “distinguished Harvard
> professor” (Richard Silverstein). My own homepage records that I’m
> presently a visiting scholar at Harvard’s Weatherhead Center (in the
> National Security Studies Program). The purpose of visitorships is to
> facilitate joint research between Weatherhead faculty and non-Harvard
> colleagues; a visiting scholar must hold a regular academic
> appointment somewhere else. I enjoy my Harvard research and library
> privileges. But I’ve never taught at Harvard, I’m not there now, and I
> don’t use the Harvard affiliation as an identifier on this Sandbox
> blog.
But you used Harvard as an identifier for MESH, your Zionist project
while a guest at Harvard.
For that, I rely solely on my permanent affiliations. So my
> rapid promotion at Harvard is really just a stunt by demagogues to
> attract attention, and the wild exaggeration is of a piece with all
> they produce. (Still, it was flattering…)
MESH is dead. I'd like to know the internal background of that.
> Further update: The directors of the Weatherhead Center at Harvard:
> “Accusations have been made that Martin Kramer’s statements are
> genocidal. These accusations are baseless.” Full text here.http://www.martinkramer.org/sandbox/2010/02/wcfia-at-harvard-accusati...
A third of the Harvard population is Jewish and then there is
philanthropy, political correctness, fear, careerism, etc.
drahcir
wrote:And here, folks, we have yet another perfect example of HHW's lying
and fleeing.
Here is HHW's lie by omission. The entire gist of this discussion is
unlimited welfare allowing arabs to reproduce. What he meant was,
"given an adequate diet AND unlimited handouts...."
Regarding HHW's fleeing, I have repeated asked him in various threads
to show precisely how what Kramer suggested is different from the
Family Cap component of the 1996 Welfare Reform Act. Maybe he never
heard of it. I supplied to him on numerous occasions the following
link
http://www.ncsl.org/default.aspx?tabid=16306
that details to what extent various states have implemented Family
Cap. I then asked him, since he feels Kramer's suggestion is
tantamount to genocide, whether he thinks that the states listed in
the link are committing genocide. He never replied. That is on usenet
referred to as "fleeing".
>
> P. 2: It is contrary to Zionism's expansionist goals that Palestinians
> have large families.
>
> THEREFORE, the UN must stop giving Palestinians enough to eat.
For newcomers, this juvenile stuff with "P.1" and "therefores" that do
not follow logically from the supposed premises from H, is simply his
attempt to vindicate himself as to one of his manifold usenet
fiascoes. Those interested can do a google groups search with either
HHW or me as author, containing the word "syllogism".
> ...
>
> read more »
dsharavi
> > Smear intifada
[the usual massive Watsonian snippage of facts]
On Mar 11, 2:58 pm, "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> The EI article was accurate.
Hah.
> The smears, such as this one, come from
> the radical, Zionist-Israeli Kramer
"Smears", in Watsonese, is another synonym for "facts".
> who for two years was embedded at
> Harvard to use its prestige as part of the ongoing effort to subvert
> our policy in the Middle East.
"Embedded" -- that's funny.
>I have written about this elsewhere.
Cela va sans dire.
> > February 22, 2010
> > Electronic Intifada, a death-to-Israel website run by Ali Abunimah
> > (pictured right), says that in my Herzliya Conference speech, which I
> > posted two weeks ago, I “called for ‘the West’ to take measures to
> > curb the births of Palestinians, a proposal that appears to meet the
> > international legal definition of a call for genocide.”
>
> Kramer's first sentence is fraught with misrepresentations:
Watson's sentence is, as usual, fraught with hyperbole and bullfarb.
>
> Electric Intifada is in fact a very good source of objective
> information on Israeli policy and her criminal behavior in the
> Occupied Territories.
As a source of objective information, it's on a par with Der Sturmer.
>It is of course anti-Zionist
Of course it's anti-Zionist. And of course it's also virulently
antisemitic.
>but then
But then, Watson wouldn't quote anything that isn't.
>The ONLY was she continues to get away with it is by
>subverting the American Congress and Administration
>using obscene amounts of money, fear and vicious tactics.
Subverting? Subverting! H forgets himself. Jews OWN Congress. And
CONTROL the White House, and the Int'l Media. And the United Jewish
Federation of Planets, too, of course.
> I've never found EI to use "death to Israel" rhetoric or ideology.
Oh, please.
> Perhaps it has, but I've never seen it
Selective vision.
>and I doubt you have either, Deborah.
Like H falsely asserts I made a "racist remark against Al Sharpton" --
a remark he can't seem to find anywhere.
>Give us an url.
lol
> Ali Abunimah is a very
> intelligent and thoughtful man, a hero to his people.
"His" people? The pro-terrorist is a Washington native who lives in
Chicago. Daddy's people were Jordanian.
> And of course it was a call for "the West" to take measures to curb
> births of Palestinians. It specifically involved the withdrawal of
> food and the food comes from the West via the UN where Western
> influence dominates.
Bullshit. His remarks were a fairly non-controversial version of the
typical complaint against the irresponsible application of welfare (it
encourages childbirth in female welfare recipients, because, without
welfare, they couldn't afford children, and more children means more
welfare). The same situation has been continuing in Gaza for neary
half a century. It's common domestic political discourse in every
country with a welfare system, and nobody has ever called that
discussion point "genocide." Only the pro-"palestinian" crowd can
twist language to their own purposes that it loses all meaning.
There are people in the world who face real genocide. "Palestinians"
aren't among those peoples, and they don't need clowns like Abunimah
to cheapen the language and their very real suffering
> > According to the site, “Kramer proposed that the number of Palestinian children
> > born in the Gaza Strip should be deliberately curbed, and alleged that
> > this would ‘happen faster if the West stops providing pro-natal
> > subsidies to Palestinians with refugee status.’”
>
> All of which is perfectly true,
You're damned tootin.
> but this does not dissuade Kramer, ala
> sharavi, from hoping he
> can convince the reader that it is not
Azoy?
>by insulting:
> The usual suspects, Philip Weiss and M.J. Rosenberg,
> alleging that they "have jumped on the bandwagon."
> But a mere cliche such as that is inadequate for the likes of Mr.
> Kramer. He goes on to assert
> that Rosenberg and Weiss "daily call" for Israel to be wiped off the
> map of the Middle East.
Was Weiss mentioned in the article? Don't think so.
> > In my speech, I made no such “proposal.” The full quote:
> > "Aging populations reject radical agendas,
>
> Which of course is an admission that the Palestinian "agenda," i.e.,
> an independent state, motivates Kramer's genocidal proposal.
>
> > and the Middle East is
> > no different. Now eventually, this will happen among the Palestinians
> > too, but it will happen faster if the West stops providing pro-natal
> > subsidies for Palestinians with refugee status. Those subsidies are
> > one reason why, in the ten years from 1997 to 2007, Gaza’s population
> > grew by an astonishing 40 percent. At that rate, Gaza’s population
> > will double by 2030, to three million.
>
> Bizarre, but cunning.
"Cunning"? The projected demographics should frighten the hell out of
anyone who is even remotely concerned with ecology, sustainability,
the environment, and the future of the planet. Obviously, that does
NOT include "Palestinians" - or Hunter Watson.
[flush hyperbolitic spew, and the usual childishly stupid P1,P2 game]
The world's current population stands at appx 6.5 billion. That's
double what it was in the 1970s, and treble what it was in the 1950s.
That's a drastic increase for any population, let alone one which
impacts the planet as heavily as humans, particulary one which exists
solely on welfare subsidies, and has done so for decades. Get the
picture? Probably not.
[flush Watson dre]
GAZA Q&A
Gaza Q&A: Palestinians answer
Q: Martin Kramer spoke of Gaza's "superfluous young men." Is anyone in
Gaza "superfluous"?
A: "I don't mind if Gazans continue producing babies, but they will
have to move somewhere else. They simply will not fit into their
current geography—forgetting about feeding and employing them, too.''
Dr. Hassan Abu Libdeh, president, Palestinian Central Bureau of
Statistics, 2000
Q: Okay... Well, if that's the situation, wouldn't it make sense for
Gaza's government to promote family planning?
A: "Unlike the West that practices family planning, we encourage
having children for political reasons."
Dr. Abd al-Aziz Rantisi, co-founder of Hamas in Gaza, 2003
Q: Political reasons? For couples having children?
A: "Marriage is the same as jihad. With marriage, you are producing
another generation that believes in resistance."
Muhammad Yousef, member of the Qassam Brigades in Gaza, the Hamas
underground, 2008
Q: I hadn't thought of that. So would you say the present Israeli
sanctions are starving the "resistance" in the cradle?
A: "It's not a humanitarian crisis. People aren't starving."
Khaled Abdel Shaafi, director, UN Development Program in Gaza, 2008
Q: But Kramer said that the present sanctions might be breaking Gaza's
runaway birth rate. If so, how?
A: "The percentage of married females in 1997 was 57.2% compared to
50.5% in 2007. This indicates a decrease in marriage rates in the Gaza
Strip, which could be due to Israeli siege and the resulting economic
impacts."
Dr. Luay Shabaneh, president, Palestinian Central Bureau of
Statistics, 2009
Q: Aha, that's how. But Gaza's still growing fast, so what's the long-
term solution?
A: "All the rural Jews in the southern district from Ashdod (Isdud) to
Eilat (Umm Rashrash) are less in number than one refugee camp in Gaza.
Their density is six persons per square kilometre while that of Gaza's
population—the owners of this very land—is 6,000 per square
kilometre."
Dr. Salman Abu Sitta, president, Palestine Land Society, 2007
Q: Yes, but... that land is in Israel proper. Are you saying that
Gaza's problem can't be solved in Gaza's pre-1967 borders?
A: "Hamas looks toward Palestine! All Palestine! The liberation of
Gaza is only a step on the road to the complete and total liberation
of all Palestine, with the help of God Almighty."
Ismail Haniyeh, Gaza's Hamas prime minister, 2009
Q: Thank you for your... candor.
Deborah
coaste...@yahoo.com
> On Mar 11, 5:58 pm, "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:> On Mar 4, 11:09 am, dsharavi <dshara...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> And here, folks, we have yet another perfect example of HHW's lying
> and fleeing.
Ratso, (That nym is a complement; you can look it up!) I'm extremely
happy to receive a second profoundly naive and talentless effort on
your part which I shall surely make your pay for, but my charming
consort and I are meeting equally charming natural couples for dinner.
You'll be on the agenda (as all of us love comic relief) while we
enjoy our favorite Tuscan dishes. I apologize for having to get back
to this labor of love tomorrow--or whenever I please. If I fail to do
so please don't hesitate to remind me. I'm sure you don't want to miss
any of my responses.
H.