Message from discussion
Ding Dong the Cardinal's Dead
From: jo...@world.std.com (Fred Cherry)
Subject: Re: Ding Dong the Cardinal's Dead
Date: 2000/05/13
Message-ID: <FuIIFn.Fvu@world.std.com>
X-Deja-AN: 623015227
References: <8F2A102Edfentonbwaynet@news1.bway.net> <8er2a6$65e$1@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <8erv6l$rtt$0@199.201.191.2> <8es8p1$90k$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <8F2AEA11Bdfentonbwaynet@news1.bway.net> <8etd50$694$1@news.panix.com> <3912fd07.10283566@gazette.bcm.tmc.edu> <FuGBH2.GuM@world.std.com> <j5VS4.18$Ja4.286@typhoon.nyu.edu>
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic,soc.culture.jewish,alt.flame,alt.flame.faggots
In Message-ID: <j5VS4.18$Ja4....@typhoon.nyu.edu>
Subject: Re: Ding Dong the Cardinal's Dead
Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic,
soc.culture.jewish,alt.flame,alt.flame.faggots
Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 15:05:51 GMT
frank w elliott jr <elli...@math2.cims.nyu.edu> wrote:
> In alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic Fred Cherry
> <jo...@world.std.com> wrote:
> :>How many people on this planet are truly evil, through and through,
> :>with no redemptive qualities whatsoever? I'm sure that in a population
> :>of six billion there's a good half dozen. I'd be surprised, however,
> :>if there are many more than that.
>
> :>rpj
>
> : According to all the faggots in this newsgroup, and the faggots who own
> : and run panix.com.
> No, you're not evil.
You are misquoting me. Here is EXACTLY what I said:
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
According to all the faggots in this newsgroup, and the faggots who own
and run panix.com. I am one of them. You faggots just cannot put up with
my opposition to NAMBLA, your favorite organization.
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
> > The people who run panix.com, many of whom are straight, consider you a
> > pain in the ass.
>
> Once again
Let's look at the record:
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
From: gend...@panix.com (Gita Enders)
Newsgroups: panix.chat
Subject: Re: I hope that we are careful out there...
Date: 25 Feb 1995 15:01:13 -0500
Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and Unix, NYC
Lines: 34
Messag -ID: <3io2a9$...@panix.com>
Alexis Rosen writes:
Good ol' Roy Radow of Nambla? Never thought I'd miss him when he left.
You never can tell...
Fred Cherry (jo...@panix.com) quotes mail received from staff:
: If you continue your current tendency of posting what you think
: is just barely inside our tolerance for poor netiquette that
: behavior alone will push you over the edge.
I don't know where I got this idea, but I thought Panix stood for free
speech. Of course, part of Panix's right to free speech is the right not
to carry Fred, so its a muddled issue.
Where is Roy Radow when you need him?
-------------------------------------
bash$ pfinger roy
Login Name: roy Full Name: Roy Radow
Directory: /net/u/5/r/roy Shell: /usr/local/bin/ksh
Last login Wed Jan 18 14:51:29 on panix2.panix.com ttyre from 192.100.81.130.
No mail information available.
-------------------------------------
Well, that should cheer Alexis up...
People who wish to avoid being offended should run moderated newsgroups
or private mailing lists.
Gita "if you can't stand the flame, get out of the newsgroup" Enders
From: ila...@panix.com (Liz Stokes)
Newsgroups: panix.chat
Subject: Re: I hope that we are careful out there...
Date: 27 Feb 1995 11:45:00 -0500
Organization: Public Access Internet & UNIX
Lines: 46
Messag -ID: <3isvic$...@panix.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: panix.com
What was that gend...@panix.com (Gita Enders) said? oh yes...
>Alexis Rosen writes:
>
>Good ol' Roy Radow of Nambla? Never thought I'd miss him when he left.
>You never can tell...
>
>Fred Cherry (jo...@panix.com) quotes mail received from staff:
>
>: If you continue your current tendency of posting what you think
>: is just barely inside our tolerance for poor netiquette that
>: behavior alone will push you over the edge.
>
>I don't know where I got this idea, but I thought Panix stood for free
>speech. Of course, part of Panix's right to free speech is the right not
>to carry Fred, so its a muddled issue.
>
>Where is Roy Radow when you need him?
>-------------------------------------
>
>bash$ pfinger roy
>
>Login Name: roy Full Name: Roy Radow
>Directory: /net/u/5/r/roy Shell: /usr/local/bin/ksh
>Last login Wed Jan 18 14:51:29 on panix2.panix.com ttyre from 192.100.81.130.
>No mail information available.
>
>-------------------------------------
>
>Well, that should cheer Alexis up...
You're point being? Roy wasn't asked to leave. His postings may have been
offensive to many but he posted them in the correct places for that kind of
thing. He wasn't in any danger of being tossed off for cause. Or is it that
you think we aren't entitled to personal opinions about our users, or our
users opinions? Lord knows I have a few...
-Liz
--
Liz Stokes | Hey! Where am I going?
Ilaine de Cameron |
| And what am I doing in this handbasket?
ila...@panix.com |
From: d...@panix.com (Don Samek)
Newsgroups: panix.chat
Subject: Re: I hope that we are careful out there...
Date: 28 Feb 1995 12:35:36 -0500
Organization: Panix Public Access Internet & Unix, NYC
Lines: 47
Distribution: panix
Messag -ID: <3ivmt8$...@news.panix.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: news.panix.com
ila...@panix.com (Liz Stokes) writes:
>What was that gend...@panix.com (Gita Enders) said? oh yes...
>>I don't know where I got this idea, but I thought Panix stood for free
>>speech. Of course, part of Panix's right to free speech is the right not
>>to carry Fred, so its a muddled issue.
>>
>>Where is Roy Radow when you need him?
>
>>-------------------------------------
>>
>>bash$ pfinger roy
>>
>>Login Name: roy Full Name: Roy Radow
>>Directory: /net/u/5/r/roy Shell: /usr/local/bin/ksh
>>Last login Wed Jan 18 14:51:29 on panix2.panix.com ttyre from 192.100.81.130.
>>No mail information available.
>>
>>-------------------------------------
>>
>>Well, that should cheer Alexis up...
>
>You're point being? Roy wasn't asked to leave.
That _is_ the point Liz.
> His postings may have been
>offensive to many but he posted them in the correct places for that kind of
>thing.
You're kidding, right? Did you regularly follow his posts?
> He wasn't in any danger of being tossed off for cause.
Again, that _is_ the point.
> Or is it that
>you think we aren't entitled to personal opinions about our users, or our
>users opinions? Lord knows I have a few...
This has nothing to do with _personal_ opinions, but rather business
opinions/decisions.
- Don
From: jo...@panix.com (Fred Cherry)
Newsgroups: panix.chat
Subject: Re: I hope that we are careful out there...
Date: 28 Feb 1995 12:40:48 -0500
Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and Unix, NYC
Lines: 30
Messag -ID: <3ivn70$...@panix3.panix.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: panix3.panix.com
In <3isvic$...@panix.com> ila...@panix.com (Liz Stokes) writes:
>You're point being? Roy wasn't asked to leave. His postings may have been
>offensive to many but he posted them in the correct places for that kind of
>thing. He wasn't in any danger of being tossed off for cause. Or is it that
>you think we aren't entitled to personal opinions about our users, or our
>users opinions? Lord knows I have a few...
>-Liz
[The above material was directed to Gita Enders]
To Liz Stokes,
How do you know that Radow wasn't posting his messages in incorrect
places? He is certainly doing that right now. See, for example, my 77
line message in the panix.chat thread: "Reasonable doubt?"
Isn't it possible that Radow WAS posting in incorrect places and that you
were not aware of it? Isn't it true that the only time you do anything
about posts in incorrect places is when someone complains? Aren't you
aware that homosexuals are constantly trying to get their opponents
kicked off of the Internet? There was, for example, the time when Rod
Swift was trying to get Chuck Whealton censored, and Ken Weaverling,
Whealton's system administrator, refused to bow down to homosexual
pressure.
jo...@panix.com, a.k.a. themadmai...@bix.com
From: d...@panix.com (Don Samek)
Newsgroups: panix.chat
Subject: Re: I hope that we are careful out there...
Date: 28 Feb 1995 13:38:57 -0500
Organization: Panix Public Access Internet & Unix, NYC
Lines: 19
Distribution: panix
Messag -ID: <3ivqk1$...@news.panix.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: news.panix.com
jo...@panix.com (Fred Cherry) writes:
[...]
>Isn't it possible that Radow WAS posting in incorrect places and that you
>were not aware of it? Isn't it true that the only time you do anything
>about posts in incorrect places is when someone complains? Aren't you
>aware that homosexuals are constantly trying to get their opponents
>kicked off of the Internet? There was, for example, the time when Rod
>Swift was trying to get Chuck Whealton censored, and Ken Weaverling,
>Whealton's system administrator, refused to bow down to homosexual
>pressure.
Do you think maybe that this issue of "homosexual censorship" is
for you, an obsession?
- Don
From: jo...@panix.com (Fred Cherry)
Newsgroups: panix.chat
Subject: Re: I hope that we are careful out there...
Date: 28 Feb 1995 18:28:16 -0500
Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and Unix, NYC
Lines: 27
Distribution: panix
Messag -ID: <3j0big$...@panix.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: panix.com
In <3ivqk1$...@news.panix.com> d...@panix.com (Don Samek) writes:
>jo...@panix.com (Fred Cherry) writes:
> [...]
>>Isn't it possible that Radow WAS posting in incorrect places and that you
>>were not aware of it? Isn't it true that the only time you do anything
>>about posts in incorrect places is when someone complains? Aren't you
>>aware that homosexuals are constantly trying to get their opponents
>>kicked off of the Internet? There was, for example, the time when Rod
>>Swift was trying to get Chuck Whealton censored, and Ken Weaverling,
>>Whealton's system administrator, refused to bow down to homosexual
>>pressure.
>Do you think maybe that this issue of "homosexual censorship" is
>for you, an obsession?
> - Don
Perhaps this issue for me IS an obsession. But that doesn't mean I am
wrong. If one looks at history, one sees that most changes were brought
about by people with obsessions.
jo...@panix.com, a.k.a. themadmai...@bix.com
From: ila...@panix.com (Liz Stokes)
Newsgroups: panix.chat
Subject: Re: I hope that we are careful out there...
Date: 28 Feb 1995 19:43:43 -0500
Organization: Public Access Internet & UNIX
Lines: 46
Messag -ID: <3j0fvv$...@panix4.panix.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 198.7.0.5
What was that jo...@panix.com (Fred Cherry) said? oh yes...
>In <3isvic$...@panix.com> ila...@panix.com (Liz Stokes) writes:
>
>
>>You're point being? Roy wasn't asked to leave. His postings may have been
>>offensive to many but he posted them in the correct places for that kind of
>>thing. He wasn't in any danger of being tossed off for cause. Or is it that
>>you think we aren't entitled to personal opinions about our users, or our
>>users opinions? Lord knows I have a few...
>
>>-Liz
>
>[The above material was directed to Gita Enders]
>
>To Liz Stokes,
>
>How do you know that Radow wasn't posting his messages in incorrect
>places? He is certainly doing that right now. See, for example, my 77
>line message in the panix.chat thread: "Reasonable doubt?"
>
>Isn't it possible that Radow WAS posting in incorrect places and that you
>were not aware of it? Isn't it true that the only time you do anything
>about posts in incorrect places is when someone complains? Aren't you
>aware that homosexuals are constantly trying to get their opponents
>kicked off of the Internet? There was, for example, the time when Rod
>Swift was trying to get Chuck Whealton censored, and Ken Weaverling,
>Whealton's system administrator, refused to bow down to homosexual
>pressure.
I'm not talking about Rod Swift, Chuck Whealton or anyone except
Roy. The only serious complaint we got about him was that he had posted an
explicit sexual story involving a rabbi to soc.culture.jewish or some such
place. It turned out that he had posted it to alt.sex.somethingorother and
someone else had reposted to soc.culture.jewish. As far as panix staff are
concerned he wasn't at fault.
Of course we don't police every single newsgroup and only take
action when there is a complaint. To expect otherwise is just silly.
-Liz
--
Liz Stokes | Hey! Where am I going?
Ilaine de Cameron |
| And what am I doing in this handbasket?
ila...@panix.com |
From: cl...@panix.com (Clay Shirky)
Newsgroups: panix.chat
Subject: Re: I hope that we are careful out there...
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 20:25:57 -0500
Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and Unix, NYC
Lines: 18
Distribution: panix
Messag -ID: <clays-2802952025570...@clays.dialup.access.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 198.7.7.149
Fred Cherry wrote:
> Perhaps this issue for me IS an obsession.
Perhaps?
> But that doesn't mean I am wrong.
des never said that. You are wrong for other reasons.
> If one looks at history, one sees that most changes were brought
> about by people with obsessions.
One also sees that these changes were often for the worse, such as
increases in a societies willingness to scapegoat marginalized groups.
--
Clay Shirky
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Well, there's the record for you. Roy Radow, the Chairman of the Steering
Committee of NAMBLA was welcome in PANIX. I, an enemy of NAMBLA, was kicked
off of PANIX.
Furthermore, Radow WAS posting in inappropriate newsgroups. I, who am an
enemy of censorship wasn't going to complain about that.
Something I would like to mention about Clay Shirky. In 1996 I sued in
federal court challenging the constitutionality of the Communications
Decency Act of 1996. My case was based on the fact that Rod Swift, the
notorious homonazi NAMBLA supporter from Australia was posting messages
such as: "Fred Cherry needs a big dick up his ass to clear out the shit
that's backlogged into his brain." Swift, posting from Australia, could get
away with postings like that. I, posting from the United States, would have
been charged with a crime for merely quoting him.
Shirky, testifying for the government in that case, accused me of
"polluting" the newsgroup alt.christnet. I responded by pointing out that
Swift had already "polluted" that newsgroup by posting a message to the
effect that Jesus Christ had a penis 900 feet long.
Anyway, there now exists a website dedicated to accusing me of advocating
kiddie porn. Every now and then some faggot will accuse me of this, quoting
the preliminary statement in my complaint. The fact is that I copied the
preliminary statement in my complaint word-for-word from the preliminary
statement from the complaint by the American Civil Liberties Union.
jo...@world.std.com (Fred Cherry)
Grand Duke of Yugoslobia
Duke of Vulgaria
Grand Muff-Diver of Jerusalem
& Elector of Homophobia
|
