Muppets promoting Zionism
The Abstraction of Justice
> By the way, do you still think the Muppets are a Zionist plot?
Sesame street certainly was with its multicultural/Jew cast promoting
muliculturalism 'neigbourhoods.' Compare races of presenters to the
general public - conclusion - almost no whites. Look at its Directors
and Producers - Jews.
The muppets was Sesame street for a larger audience. Each week it
would have a Jew celebrity such as Barbara Streisand or Woody Allen
singing their Jewish songs.
Here it is promoting a Jew as a Doctor of Chemistry:
http://www.muppets.com/honeydew/honeydew.htm (Honey D(J)ew).
Obviously he is a fat faced bald big nosed Jew with a German accent,
just like Einstein.
Here are the two mean white anglo saxon types:
http://www.muppets.com/swaldorf/swaldorf.htm
Here it promotes Afro-American tribal costume.
http://www.muppets.com/profiles/profiles.htm
Here is Gonzo, obviously a big nose little Jewboy who wants to burden
you with his daily tale of woe.
http://www.muppets.com/gonzo/gonzo.htm
Now for fozzie, the lovable Italian Jew with the Bronx/Brooklyn
accent. He is obviously a Jewish standup commedian, a terrible and
tragic failure. Oh vey!
http://www.muppets.com/fozzie/fozzie.htm
Now here is the blond haired, blue eyed White Anglo Saxon Pig. And it
is, yes you guessed it, miss Piggy, of unclean meat. She thinks she is
attractive, but we all know that she is a Pig and so ain't no Jew!
timbo
the mad bomber' - his likeness is uncanny actually, down to the muslim
beard..
http://www.toymania.com/columns/spotlight/palmuppets2charry.shtml
Rastus
"The Abstraction of Justice" <vigilante...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in
message news:d37c79d.04041...@posting.google.com...
> zzz...@my-deja.com (zzzzara) wrote:
>
> > By the way, do you still think the Muppets are a Zionist plot?
>
>
>
First we must ask whappened to Bert.
http://www.wired.com/news/conflict/0,2100,47450,00.html?tw=wn_story_related
and
TonyaK9
"timbo" <timNOTR...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:407f0e1c$1...@news.rivernet.com.au...
The Obfuscation of Justice has been a reknown fool in this part of the woods
for a long time. But this time around he's outdone himself - starting this
hilarious campaign against the ... Jewish Muppets!!!
I bet he's busy constructing a crematorium to start industrial burning of
all circumcised action heroes and other toys with facial features he finds
not Aryan enough!
ROFL!!!
What a clown!
TK9
Astrtshtr
the introductory comments is just plainly out and out anti-semetic. He or she
are part of a long line of hate mongerers and they fall in different levels of
bigotry with the posting in chat rooms being just one of their means of
spreading hate. When not posting, they are probably spewing hate with their
cohorts, but they are also probably cowards as well, hiding behind screen
names. If placed in the company of Jews they would be all smiles, cordial, and
friendly. Too bad they have to spread hate instead of love! Please also note
how resourceful and intelligent many of these bigots are. If only they would
put their efforts and talents to positive and productive use, our world would
be so much a better place for us all. I sincerely hope that those who hate
will come to the conclusion that they really have nothing to hate about. Is a
color something to hate? Is a religion something to hate? Is a nose something
to hate? Is an education something to hate? Is a nationality something to
hate? Is an accent something to hate? Is success something to hate? Is being
different from you something to hate? Is how someone prays to their diety
something to hate? If someone has no diety, is that something to hate? People
who hate will be better than I am in finding what they might want to hate, so I
hope that when they are about to spew their hatred that they ask themselves,
"Is what I am hating now really something to hate?" If this stops just one
person from hate when they realize how foolish it sounds, my time and effort in
writing this will have been worthwhile.
TonyaK9
"Astrtshtr" <astr...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040415222954...@mb-m21.aol.com...
> Is a
> color something to hate? Is a religion something to hate? Is a nose
something
> to hate? Is an education something to hate? Is a nationality something
to
> hate? Is an accent something to hate? Is success something to hate? Is
being
> different from you something to hate?
Do a search on Abstraction of Justice posts and confirm for yourself that
the list of his targets includes all those items you've listed, and some
more.
Actually, if he had money to go to a shrink (which he doesn't have - he's a
man of "modest means", what they call "lower class" in England), he'd learn
soon that most of all he hates himself. So, all of his other hatreds are
just a reflection of his self-hatred - for being poor, for having half-ass
education, for living in a faceless red brick apartment building, the exact
copy of all others on the same street in an industrial suburb of London, for
being jealous of those damn Jooz who somehow manage to succeed in the world
where many dislike them, for having no hope and nothing to look up for
tomorrow... Somebody oughtta pay for this miserable existence ... the target
is well known.
TK9
The Abstraction of Justice
If Jews want my love all they have to do is oppose multiculturalism in
England and emigrate to Israel. In that case I would gladly support
all of their Zionist policies.
The Abstraction of Justice
English people don't hate themselves for being poor, you confuse us
with Yanks and Jews. As for my education, well I have a degree in
Theoretical Physics and have substantial knowledge of General
Relativy, the philosophy of science, the philosophy of maths, the
philosophy of logic, musicology and Windows systems. (Sufficient to
program massively scalable TCP/IP engines, DirectX 3D systems, Real
Time programming, SQL databases...the list is long).
I live in a little village if you must know, and I don't mind what the
outside of the building looks like as I rarely venture out and feel no
need to impress people with my homely architecture.
The only thing that causes me envy with Jews is their money. If I had
Jewish blood perhaps maths would come a bit easier, but I would have
to sacrifice art. Jews are not known for their artistic souls you
know. I would also have to sacrifice the English virtue of fair play,
which is almost alien to their kind. Envy for money does not cause me
to hate. Lots of people I know are wealthier than myself and it gives
me little cause for resentment. Perhaps I am such an egotist in other
areas of life that the natural reactions, which are only too evident
in yourself, are lost to me.
No, I dislike a lot of Jews simply because they promote foreigners to
obscure their own racial favouritism. I don't know many Jews who
practice miscegenation, but they are always there promoting it. When
it is evident that this policy bring ruination to my country it causes
me dread. So Jews cause me dread. Sufficient and justified reason to
hate.
TonyaK9
"The Abstraction of Justice" <vigilante...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in
message news:d37c79d.04041...@posting.google.com...
Yes, of course. Neither Mendelssohn nor Biset nor Mahler nor Gershwin nor
Bernstein come even close to your musical talents. And what could possibly
Rubinstein, Heifetz, Gilels, Stern, Askenazi, Barenboim, Mintz, Levine,
Perlman, Zuckerman, Kissin and other small time musicians compete against
that grand artistic soul of yours???
Keep posting, clown...
TK9
TonyaK9
"The Abstraction of Justice" <vigilante...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in
message news:d37c79d.04041...@posting.google.com...
Jews "want your love"???
You are terribly confused, Obfuscation of Justice.
It is Napoleon who wants your love.
The emergency people are on their way, and they will take you to a clean
quiet room with soft walls, there you'll be able to meet him in person and
finally relax...
TK9
Jim F.
Gee, Tonya, you left out the visual arts. Camille Pissaro, Max Lieberman,
Max Weber,
Marc Chagall, and Amedeo Modigliani were not anything to sneeze at.
Frido Kahlo, was not halachically Jewish, but she did have a
Jewish father.
>
> Keep posting, clown...
Don't worry, he will. Some people have no self-control
at all.
Jim F.
>
> TK9
>
>
TonyaK9
"Jim F." <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:c5p5ls$3quln$1...@ID-155290.news.uni-berlin.de...
The Obfuscation of Justice didn't claim to have any proficiency in visual
arts, yet he bragged about being a "musicologist" (in spite of his total
arrogance of the subject expressed in some previous post of his, where he
acknowledged to have never heard of Albenis!)
That is why I limited my list to the first dozen or so of small time Jewish
names that came to my mind and which should be familiar to any
"musicologist..."
Isn't is amazing how people who claim to have a doctorate degrees make fools
of themselves, Jim?
TK9
The Abstraction of Justice
> Yes, of course. Neither Mendelssohn nor Biset nor Mahler nor Gershwin nor
> Bernstein come even close to your musical talents. And what could possibly
> Rubinstein, Heifetz, Gilels, Stern, Askenazi, Barenboim, Mintz, Levine,
> Perlman, Zuckerman, Kissin and other small time musicians compete against
> that grand artistic soul of yours???
>
> Keep posting, clown...
>
> TK9
Mendelssohn had a fairly hefty headstart in life, he was the son of
Merchant Bankers. Bizet was certainly a decent composer too. Mahler's
ability is debatable. But the others are dross. Especially Gershwin &
Bernstein. Levine and Barenboim aren't artists, they don't create
music.
TonyaK9
"The Abstraction of Justice" <vigilante...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in
message news:d37c79d.04041...@posting.google.com...
news:<SETfc.12872$k05...@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>...
>
> > Yes, of course. Neither Mendelssohn nor Biset nor Mahler nor Gershwin
nor
> > Bernstein come even close to your musical talents. And what could
possibly
> > Rubinstein, Heifetz, Gilels, Stern, Askenazi, Barenboim, Mintz, Levine,
> > Perlman, Zuckerman, Kissin and other small time musicians compete
against
> > that grand artistic soul of yours???
> >
> > Keep posting, clown...
> >
> > TK9
>
>
> Mendelssohn had a fairly hefty headstart in life, he was the son of
> Merchant Bankers. Bizet was certainly a decent composer too. Mahler's
> ability is debatable.
Bwahahahahahahahaha!!!
> But the others are dross. Especially Gershwin &
> Bernstein. Levine and Barenboim aren't artists, they don't create
> music.
Bwahahahahahahahaha!!!
Keep posting, clown!
TK9
The Abstraction of Justice
>
> Keep posting, clown...
>
> TK9
http://users.belgacom.net/wagnerlibrary/prose/wagjuda.htm
Analysis of Jewish music by a master.
TonyaK9
message news:d37c79d.04041...@posting.google.com...
ANTISEMITISM IN THE MUSIC DRAMAS OF RICHARD WAGNER
by Daniel N. Leeson
contributed by Yakov Horenstein
An apocryphal story about Richard Wagner's stage works is attributed to
Gioachino Rossini (1792-1868) who is alleged to have described Wagner's
music as having "great moments, but bad quarter hours."
However, those of us who have worked Wagner's operas in the orchestra pit do
not agree with that bit of nineteenth-century wit, for what one plays is
exceptional most of the time, and extraordinary for the rest. For special
moments, such as the death of Siegfried in The Twilight of the Gods or
Walther's "Prize Song" in The Master Singers of Nuremberg, it is hard, even
for the most blase and bored old-timer who has played everything to control
the emotions, so transcendent is the impact of the music.
Unfortunately, playing, singing, and even listening to Wagner's music
presents internal conflicts for those who reject the man's antisemitic
utterances, as espoused, for example, in his essay "Jewishness in Music"
(1850).
Today, the Israel Philharmonic Orchestra does not play Wagner's music,
though it is incorrect to suggest that they never did. Arturo Toscanini
included the preludes to Acts I and III of Lohengrin, Jascha Horenstein the
overture to Tannhauser, and Bronislav Szulc the overture to The Flying
Dutchman all before 1938.
The ban on performance of Wagner's music by the Palestine Orchestra (later
the Palestine Philharmonic and, still later, the Israel Philharmonic
Orchestra), began on Nov. 12, 1938. The closing work of the program was to
have been the prelude to The Master Singers of Nuremberg.
Following the intermission of that concert, the chairman of the orchestral
association announced that "because of the antisemitic excesses and
disturbances in Germany," the Wagner work had been removed from the program
by public demand, and Weber's overture to the opera Oberon had been
substituted.
The most significant factor in this action was due, not to Wagner, but to
Kristallnacht which had taken place three days earlier, Nov. 9, 1938. It
would appear that the use of the name "Nuremberg" and its connection with
both Nazi party conventions and anti-Jewish laws was the aggravating factor;
i.e., the restrictive ordinances were made by the Nazis in that city in
explicit deference to Wagner's opera. As such, this was not a wholesale
condemnation of Wagner by the management or the personnel of the Palestine
Orchestra, and for the fourth concert of the season, the orchestra played
the "Bacchanal" from Wagner's Tannhauser, though not in Palestine but on
tour in Egypt. However, from Nov. 12, 1939 and for 59 years in Palestine,
later Israel, the orchestra, with one well-publicized exception, has
performed no music of Wagner.
That exception occurred in 1981 when the conductor, Zubin Mehta,
unsuccessfully tried to heal the wounds with an unscheduled Wagner encore.
Some orchestral musicians refused to participate, many older members of the
audience left before the work - an excerpt from Tristan and Isolde - was
played, and there was considerable commotion during the encore from those
who remained. Unwilling to repeat the reaction, and aware of a poll in which
50% (later 30%) of those sampled were against the playing of Wagner's music,
performances of his works by the IPO were put aside.
On June 7, 1998, the English version of the Israeli newpaper Ha'aretz
reported emotional outbursts at the Tel Aviv Performing Arts Center where a
symposium entitled "Wagner: An Artist or a Symbol," was being held.
Sponsored by the New Israel Opera and attended by the composer's great
grandson, Dr. Gottfried Wagner, the discussion pitted Zalman Shoval,
chairman of the NIO's board, against Asher Fisch, NIO Music Director who
wishes to perform Wagner's operas in Israel. When Fisch, on piano, tried to
accompany a baritone in a monologue from The Flying Dutchman, dozens of
people left the hall in protest, shouting, "This is unthinkable!," "Rape!,"
and "In the name of culture, you are patronizing everyone."
For many music lovers the emotions associated with performing or listening
to Wagner's music have a built in safety valve invoked with variations of
the following statement of justification: "Certainly Wagner was an
antisemite. However, Schubert's alleged pedophilia does not change my
perspective of his music's beauty, nor does Mozart's scatology, Beethoven's
poor hygiene, Delius' sexual promiscuity, or Grainger's whipping fetish.
Besides, other composers - Chopin, for one - also held loathsome antisemitic
views. So, despite Wagner's offensive declarations, his opinions are
irrelevant to an admiration of his operas and one must not permit his
abhorrent personal creed to be an impediment to an appreciation of his
musical genius."
In summary, the fact that Wagner was a Jew hater is seen by some as
irrelevant to performances of his music. And this attitude is accompanied by
a key sentiment asserting that there is no evidence of Wagner's enmity
towards Jews present in his operas. Furthermore, his music dramas have no
Jewish characters and there are no references to Jews, pejorative or
otherwise, anywhere in his music.
Therefore, contemporary listeners divorce their revulsion at his shameless
antisemitism from his art.
However, the argument about the absence of antisemitism in his music dramas
is unsound at the instant of its utterance. Below the surface, there are
countless examples of coded antisemitic stereotypes, hateful images of Jews,
and precise references to what Wagner believed were abhorrent Jewish
personal and physical characteristics in at least three of his most creative
utterances, The Master Singers of Nuremberg, (MasterSingers), The Ring of
the Niebelung, (The Ring), and Parsifal. For brevity I will focus only on
Master Singers and The Ring.
Master Singers is a single opera about a medieval guild of singer/poets,
while The Ring is a 20-hour blockbuster of four consecutive and
plotconnected operas that tell a complex and often incomprehensible tale of
gods, humans, subterranean creatures, and diverse personalities, some of
whom are difficult to characterize.
Other than Wagner, negative stereotypes of Jews in opera are rare. Richard
Strauss' portrayal of five Jews in Salome shows quarreling, complaining,
whining men. Furthermore, four of the Jews are high tenors which gives an
especially shrill quality to their singing. As Sander Gilman, Henry R. Luce
Professor of Liberal Arts and Human Biology, and Chairman of the Department
of German Studies at the University of Chicago, has pointed out, high voices
were associated in the latter part of the 19th century with castration
which, in the mind of the ignoramus, was synonymous with circumcision.
Sergei Prokofiev's opera, Betrothal In a Monastery (La Duenna), based on an
eighteenth century play by Richard Brinsley Sheridan, contains the
individual, Isaac Mendoza, portrayed in a negative fashion. This is out of
character for Prokofiev who was not an antisemite. His composition, Overture
on Yiddish Themes, was written in New York for his conservatory colleagues
in the touring Jewish musical ensemble, "Zimro" and was based on original
Jewish musical material given to him by Simeon Bellison, clarinetist with
the ensemble. The opera's antisemitic details are derived from Sheridan's
play in which Mendoza, who gives up his Jewish faith to be eligible to marry
a rich Christian girl, is a central character.
Jack Durant, in his 1975 study of Sheridan, depicts Mendoza as "a repulsive,
fortune-seeking Jew," based on his characterization in the play.
The Tales of Hoffmann, an opera by the Jewish composer Jacques Offenbach,
makes an unfortunate reference about the bankruptcy of a character who never
appears in the opera, and is referred to as "the Jew Elias." The implication
is that Elias' bankruptcy may have been deliberate so as to avoid having to
repay a debt. This operatic character is due either to the surrealist, E. T.
A. Hoffmann, three of whose stories were used as the basis of Offenbach's
opera, or else the librettists Jules and Pierre Barbier. (At a later point
in the drama, the shadowless "Schlemiel" makes his entrance. This character,
whose name is a Yiddish word referring to any unlucky person, is mentioned
in an 1813 novella, Peter Schlemiehl's Remarkable Tale, by the German
Romantic writer Adelbert von Chamisso who explained, in a letter to his
brother, that this was "a Hebrew name meaning 'the one who loved God...'
[and is a] term Jews use for clumsy or unhappy people." Whatever the source
of Chamisso's understanding, this was his association with the word and
there appears to be no malevolence in his or the opera's use of it.)
Rossini's opera, Moses in Egypt, is said by Stendahl to have a chorus with
"nasal intonation." But this is an opera that I have neither seen nor
played, and no conclusions should be drawn in this occasionally ambiguous
arena without personal, first-hand experience. Even listening to a recorded
performance is insufficient. One must see the event in its natural setting
to experience the context in which such alleged stereotypical images are
said to be presented.
In effect, it is generally assumed - in fact, it is asserted - that, unlike
the few cases mentioned above, nowhere are Jews even remarked on in Wagner's
operas. On the other hand, as we shall see, the accuracy of this assertion
depends on one's point of view.
On the other side of the coin, a small number of non-Jewish composers
portray Jews sympathetically or even romantically in opera, for example
Verdi's Nabucco and Mascagni's L'amico Fritz.
ANTISEMITISM IN THE MASTER SINGERS
The opera takes place in medieval Nuremberg and tells of a guild of
singer/poets. Entry into the guild was based on the applicant's singing and
his ability to craft the poetry on which his song would be based. Rules of
text and song were strict, with little toleration for any deviation from
orthodoxy.
However, to no small degree, this opera is an autobiographical roman a clef
in which the genius-hero, Walther (read "Wagner"), breaks the rules of song
but creates masterpieces. The villain, Sixtus Beckmesser, represents
Wagner's archenemy, the forces that insist on adherence to doctrine.
Beckmesser, who is not a Jew and who could not have been a member of the
guild if he were, is, however, an accumulation of nineteenth-century
antisemitic cliches, the personification of every unsavory aspect about Jews
espoused by Wagner.
Specifically, Wagner believed that Jews shuffle and stagger, their eyes
squint, they are belligerent, designing, and unscrupulous, all
characteristics that Beckmesser displays in the course of the opera.
Furthermore, and most important to the character of Beckmesser, is his
absolute deficiency of musical talent, his inability to craft poetry, and
his lack of metric or rhythmic sensitivity, any one of which should have
made him unfit to be a member of the guild. Wagner's view on the Jew's
ability to contribute to the world of culture is described in his essay
Jewishness in Music: " In this language and this art the Jew can produce
only imitative sounds and counterfeit goods - he cannot write truly eloquent
poetry or create works of true art." Elsewhere in this same essay, Wagner
writes, "If the Jew [is] incapable of articulating artistically his feelings
and intuitions through speech, how much more incapable he must be of
articulating them through song." Yet, like the Jew who, in Wagner's eyes,
used devious and unscrupulous practices to gain entry into German society,
Beckmesser has somehow become a member of the guild of singers, though how
he passed the entrance examination at some previous time is
incomprehensible.
Unlike every other guild member, Beckmesser has no craft but earns his
living as the town notary. Despite his inadequacies, he has become a
"marker," measuring the worth of potential members for the guild and judging
the merit of aspiring candidates. He criticizes the slightest deviation from
doctrine, and is the very thing that Wagner hates, a critic.
On this matter, it is worth pointing out that an early name for the
character of Sixtus Beckmesser was "Hans Lich," almost a duplicate of
Wagner's nemesis, Eduard Hanslick, the so-called "Bismark of critics."
The name change to Sixtus Beckmesser occurred very early in the creative
cycle, but the fact that Wagner even considered this humiliation for a man
who he regarded as an archenemy (and of Jewish ancestry) is notable.
But it is in Beckmesser's singing style that the most revealing picture
makes itself known, for what he sings and how he sings it is a parody of the
rhythms and vocal inflections of synagogue chant. Further, it is music that
is very high, in fact, far too high for the bass voice specified by Wagner.
It is another example of the effeminate high voice that parodied the result
of castration, which was confused with circumcision.
Beckmesser's performance as a poet/singer is so incompetent that the
reactions to him from the citizens of the town range from cynical disrespect
to outright ridicule. His ardent and pathetic serenading of the wrong woman
leads to a riot. And he is a thief, too, stealing another's poem for use as
the text for his own song. But even in this he fails because, in Wagner's
eyes, Beckmesser cannot be a musical person even when given satisfactory raw
material and coached in its proper use by a master. Here the parallel to the
unpoetic, inarticulate, and unmusical Jew is unambiguous.
Finally, there is the matter of Beckmesser's participation in a song contest
that directly challenges Walther, the opera's hero. Beckmesser's purpose in
this foolish act, which results in further humiliation for him, has to do
with the contest's prize being the beautiful daughter of a wealthy fellow
guild member; i.e., the image of Beckmesser is that of a talentless and
incompetent older man having sexual pretensions for a young, pure German
maiden as well as lust for wealth, this description summarizing Wagner's
opinion of Jews.
The characteristics exhibited in Beckmesser generally pass unnoticed by
contemporary audiences, mostly because our generation has little experience
with coded nineteenth-century antisemitism. The heritage of the Shoah has
gone far to desensitize us to all but the naked, uncamouflaged, and flagrant
use of antisemitic acts. Our sensitivity to how the German world saw Jews at
the time of the premiere of Master Singers has been changed, and it is not
so easy for the contemporary world to recognize the characteristics of coded
nineteenth-century antisemitism. For example, we no longer remember the
antisemitic
Grimm fairy tale, "The Jew in the Thornbush", that contains plot parallels
to this opera.
Early performances of Master Singers suggest that its reception was not
uniformly positive. There were hostile demonstrations, but it is not clear
if these were because of Wagner's essay on "Jewishness in Music", the opera
as a whole, the composer, or the character of Sixtus Beckmesser.
But it was the Jews who were blamed for the disturbances when the audiences
were said to be full of "distinctive physiognomies" ready "to take their
revenge on [Wagner]." Wagner's wife, Cosima, wrote that "the [Jews] are
spreading a story ... that 'Beckmesser's Song' is an old Jewish song that
R[ichard] was trying to ridicule. In consequence [there was] some hissing in
the second act."
Wagner's antisemitic subtlety in Master Singers is matched by his cunning in
depicting Jewish characteristics in The Ring. In that monumental music drama
he would employ all of the artifacts used to characterize Beckmesser and add
a few more including references to the blood libel and the dangers of race
mixing.
ANTISEMITISM IN THE RING
It is possible to tell the story of The Ring, but the collection of
characters, plots, and subplots make it difficult to understand. There are
gods, goddesses, giants, gnomes who live beneath the earth, mermaid-like
creatures who inhabit the Rhine river, mortals, and other roles difficult to
categorize.
The Ring is a pagan tale of sorcery and incest that presents an
incomprehensible mythology as a rational philosophy for the world, but it is
strong enough stuff to allow the modern listener to become drunk in its
embrace. Rarely has the art-loving world been presented with such a deceit
as this attempt at a complete work of art, for it is a tangle of falsehoods
and pathetic arrogance run amok, where trivial opinions are made into
pompous and ponderous utterances, and bankrupt personal pursuits are
elevated to matters of universal significance. Like every other written
utterance of Wagner, The Ring is largely egocentric. But here it of such
vast proportions as to be a stage work in which Wagner's personal fantasies
were transformed into the future of the German people.
Excluding those few characters who are neutral, the personalities of the
drama fall into two groups having opposite characteristics. One such group
is the "Volk," roughly translated as "the race" or "the nation," not "the
common people." The other is the "outsider" who differs from the Volk in
many specifics.
Wagner assigns various characteristics to the good Volk, and then displays
the opposite attributes as present in the evil outsiders. One such
characteristic is that the Volk walk in a poised and confident way while the
outsider staggers and stumbles. This stage device is derived from the
medieval superstition that Jews had goat's feet. In the middle ages, the
billy goat was presented as a symbol of satanic lechery and the devil's most
usual disguise. The Jews, believed to be Satan's minions, were also accused
of having the same attribute. That the Jew's feet were shod in public was
interpreted as using the cloak of civilization to disguise his corruption.
This acceptance of Jewish deviltry gave rise to the concept that the Jewish
foot could not function at a normal gait; i.e., the Jew stumbled and
staggered. In The Ring, the gnomes walk in this fashion while the Volk are
surefooted (a characteristic also seen in the stumbling of Beckmesser as
contrasted with the graceful dancing of the townspeople in Master Singers).
In Sander Gilman's The Jew's Body (1991), further significance is givento
the Jew's feet. They became a source of disease and the pace at which Jews
walked was perceived as a sign of their affliction. The seventeenth century
Orientalist, John Schudt, commented that the crooked feet of the Jews made
them physically inferior and, ultimately, the general belief about the Jew's
feet influenced liberal efforts to include them in the modern state. This is
particularly true with respect to serving in the military where it was
believed that Jews would be worthless as soldiers.
In Austria, for example, weak feet were said to be the main reason why Jews
inducted into the military were subsequently detached.
Another example of a characteristic with hidden antisemitic meaning is that
of vocal patterns. Wagner's formulation of a large-scale male and female
voice, for example, the "heroic tenor", is used for the Volk whereas the
outsiders sing in distinguishing non-Volkish ways. The gnomes in The Ring
have high and piercing voices, the same coded message for the confusion
between castration and circumcision as found in Master Singers, as well as a
related claim connecting circumcision with effeminacy in the Jewish male.
Thus the Volk sing with heroic qualities while the outsider screams in a
high-pitched voice.
Going beyond the visual and acoustic, Wagner employs the allegory of smell
to evoke images of character. The outsider is often accompanied by
sulphurous fumes and the noxious stenches that emanate from them.
The central theme of this coded idea is especially despicable because it is
based on the belief of the "Jewish stench," or "foetor Judaicus."
The assertion that the Jew has a distinctive and unpleasant odor is a
particularly grave accusation, first because of the origin alleged to be the
stench's cause, and second because of the several ways Jews were said to act
in order to eliminate it. Common belief during the middle ages associated
good spirits with emitting a pleasant fragrance while evil spirits,
particularly Satan and his minions, gave forth an obnoxious stench. For
example, when the coffin of St. Stephen, the martyr, was opened, his body
was said to have filled the air with a sweet fragrance that insinuated the
odor of sanctity. In the case of the Jews, the stink was said to be a
punishment for their crime against Jesus.
The Jews were said to have two ways to eliminate the smell, one of which
involved murder and cannibalism; i.e., it was necessary to kill Christian
children to obtain their blood for ritual purposes, one of which occurred
during the Passover Seder. Jews were said to consume cups of this blood as
an alleviate for the Jewish stench. The other choice was acceptance of
baptism. A direct quote from the time states that "the water of baptism
carried off the Jews' odor" and that this left them with a fragrance
"sweeter than that of ambrosia floating upon the heads touched by the
sanctified oil."
This disgusting accusation even went beyond those expressed in the extreme
anti-Jewish rhetoric of Martin Luther, causing him to say, "So long as we
use violence and slander, saying that [the Jews] use the blood of Christians
to get rid of their stench ..., what can we expect of them?"
Another discriminatory feature used by Wagner is that of vision. Poor
eyesight is a class attribute that was never applied to anyone but Jews.
The medieval view was that Jews were blind to Christianity, that the
synagogue was veiled, etc. Statues of a blindfolded woman, an allegory
representing "the synagogue defeated," still decorate churches in Europe.
One stands today in an alcove on the exterior of Strasbourg's cathedral, and
postcards of it may be purchased at nearby shops. This notion eventually was
concretized as weak eyes which, among other things, causes squinting and
blinking, characteristics found in the outsider.
Wagner carried the idea of good vision of the Volk to a higher dimension in
suggesting that they recognize each other by glance alone, and they can
"see" the outsider as being different.
Finally, in The Ring, Wagner gives coded messages about the dangers of race
mixing. The character Hagen who has a gnome father but a Volkish mother,
bears no good maternal characteristics. Instead he retains the depraved
character of his father, namely that of a liar, usurper, and villainous
murderer. But his racially pure counterpart, Siegfried, the product of an
incestuous twin brother-sister relationship, is an idealized hero who is
handsome, honest, virtuous, and brave, and whose most significant flaw is
that he is too trusting of strangers.
It has been argued that every representation of a negative physical
characteristic should not automatically be interpreted as an antisemitic
statement. This is a perceptive and valuable criticism, but not as applied
to these five specifics, none of which are in the least extreme. As Paul
Rose said in Wagner: Race and Revolution, "If Wagner, with the supreme
artist's infallible intuition, never intruded his racialist theories into
his works of art, this does not mean that the art is free of racist content.
It simply means that Wagner was too subtle an artist to reduce his operas to
the level of political tracts."
While it would be possible to level a criticism of overreaction were there
to be only one or two instances where Wagner's utterances could be confused
with coded antisemitic statements, the presence of five specifics - feet,
smell, voice, sight, and race mixing - as found in three of the four operas
of The Ring defies the laws of probability. I suggest that The Ring, with
the exception of The Valkyrie, is an anthology of Jew hatred from first note
to last.
WAGNER'S JEWISH "FRIENDS"
The seriousness of Wagner's antisemitism is suggested by some to be
exaggerated. Manfred Eger, director of the Richard Wagner museum in Bayreuth
and organizer of a 1985 exhibition on "Wagner and the Jews," admits that
some of Wagner's utterances "could have been attributed to the National
Socialist's violently antisemitic publication, Der Stuermer," but later adds
that "several of [Wagner's] colleagues and friends were Jews."
The exhibition brochure stresses Wagner's supposed appreciation of Jewish
composers such as Mendelssohn and Halevy. The reference to Mendelssohn as a
Jewish composer is the worst possible example for Eger to have employed in
this context since doing so, even with the best of intentions and without
malevolence, is an example of racial antisemitism. Mendelssohn, as seems to
have been forgotten, became a Protestant, specifically a Lutheran, when his
father, Abraham, had the entire family, including the children, converted to
Christianity. For Eger to refer to Mendelssohn as a Jew is little different
from the National Socialist argument that Jewishness was a sufficient evil
that even divesting oneself of it by conversion to Christianity was
inadequate for entry into German society; i.e., Jewishness was considered a
genetic disfigurement retained for several generations. After conversion,
Mendelssohn was no more Jewish than Madeleine Albright or Cardinal Lustiger
of France, both of whom happen to have been born Jews. Using the word "Jew"
in reference to Mendelssohn shows how ineffective conversion to Christianity
is in achieving social equality.
The particulars of Wagner's alleged friendship with Jews were offered by
Eger as evidence, along with the fact that Wagner had an affair with a
Jewish writer, Judith Gautier (a strange syllogism which argues that sex
between Jew and non-Jew is evidence that the non-Jew is a philosemite).
Wagner's intemperate rages are suggested only to be resentment of the
successes of the Jewish composer, Giocomo Meyerbeer, whose operas were then
triumphs that defy explanation. And finally, the fact that Wagner was not
alone in his antisemitism is mentioned by noting the equally loathsome views
of Voltaire, Karl Marx (of a very much Jewish lineage that can be traced
directly to Rabbi Meyer Katzenellenbogen of fifteenth century Padua), Martin
Luther, and even Napoleon.
Eger suggested that antisemitism in Bayreuth was eliminated, and cited as
evidence the fact that the 1983 season had three Jewish conductors, one of
whom, Daniel Barenboim, made recent statements (1998) about his perception
of both Wagner's antisemitism and its presence in the music dramas, stating
at one point that "Wagner did not write antisemitic music," and at another
that "... knowing [Wagner's] views on antisemitism and on Judaism you can
interpret certain figures as such...But the pieces themselves are not that."
It is disappointing to hear such a shallow interpretation of Wagner's music
dramas from a man so well schooled musically. And that he has conducted
performances of "The Ring" and saw no further than the most superficial
layer is appalling. In effect, Barenboim is both ignorant of the antisemitic
details of the Wagner that he conducts, and hypocritical to act as a Jewish
apologist for Wagner's Jew -hating attitude.
As for Mr. Eger, I am as heartened by his outstretched hand and genuinely
positive effort as I am disappointed by his "some of my best friends are
Jews" naivete. It is true that Wagner had a number of longterm Jewish
supporters, including conductor Hermann Levi, and pianists Karl Tausig and
Joseph Rubenstein. But dealings with these men can only be characterized as
something similar to keeping pets in one's home.
Levi was abused and humiliated by Wagner both publicly and privately at
every opportunity, which included the suggestion that Levi's conversion to
Christianity was a prerequisite to his conducting of Parsifal. In the face
of this, Levi behaved like a grateful lapdog, appreciative for even the most
modest attention.
A letter from Levi to his rabbi-father demonstrates what a spineless
individual the son must have been, not only to tolerate the abuse, but to
express such noble sentiments about Wagner. He calls him "the best and
noblest of men," offers the view that Wagner's antisemitic opinions
"[sprang] from the noblest motives," and ends his pathetic letter with the
statement that "The most wonderful thing I have experienced in my life is
the privilege of being close to such a man, and I thank God for it every
day." I see little difference between the statements of Levi and those of
conductor Barenboim. They are both cut from the same spineless and repulsive
mold.
Wagner had several reasons to deal with Pianist Tausig. First, he was a key
fund-raiser for Bayreuth; second, he acted as a foil to the outrage voiced
by Wagner's Jewish supporters after "Jewishness In Music" was reprinted.
Tausig was so naive as to be content with Wagner's letter to him in 1869
suggesting that if Jews would simply understand his essay in the proper
spirit, all would be well.
Rubenstein may have been unbalanced. When he first arrived to meet Wagner,
accompanied by his personal physician who advised Wagner of his instability,
Rubenstein requested that Wagner offer him salvation from his Jewishness.
However, he came from a wealthy family, played the piano exceptionally well,
promised financial support for the transcription of Wagner's scores, became
his mascot and house Jew, and was exploited, manipulated, and insulted
behind his back by both Wagner and Cosima.
It is very painful to have to report the bootlicking reactions of some Jews
to Wagner. Levi, Tausig, and Rubenstein were not the only Jewish apologists
for his antisemitic views, but they are, typically, the ones brought up as
evidence of the alleged exaggeration of Wagner's loathing of Jew s as a
class. However, Wagner was prepared to enter into a symbiotic relationship
with anyone, providing that that person could be of use to him, and that he
would be toadied to.
BAYREUTH SYMPOSIUM, 1998
An international conference of Wagner and the Jews was held in the Bavarian
city of Bayreuth in August, 1998. Sponsored by the universities of Tel Aviv,
Heidelberg, and Bayreuth, the event was funded by the Bayreuth Festival, the
German government, and Israel's Howard Gilman Israel Culture Foundation. The
matter of the open-mindedness of the symposium became a sore spot even
before it began, this because of the apparently deliberate failure to invite
Hartmut Zelinksi, author of the 1976 book, Richard Wagner: Ein Deutsches
Thema, that did so much to open the discussion of Baryeuth's Nazi past. It
is suggested that Zelinski's rejection was due to his claims that Wagner's
antisemitism was expressed as part and parcel of his operas. Zelinski's
opinion contradicts and embarrasses those who want to separate Wagner's
music dramas from his expressions of Jew hatred.
Other Wagner critics not invited to attend the symposium were the composer's
great-grandson, Gottfried Wagner, and Mark Weiner, author of Richard Wagner
and the Anti-Semitic Imagination. The only known anti-Wagnerian writer to be
invited to speak, an act now regretted by the organizers of the event, was
Paul Lawrence Rose, author of Wagner: Race and Revolution. His technical
paper was repeatedly interrupted by one of the conference's organizers and
he was told that he would not be permitted to address questions on certain
topics on the grounds that other speakers had thoroughly discussed these
points. His paper was denounced in hysterical terms because it argued that
Wagner's antisemitism was actually inscribed musically within the operas.
Clearly, such attitudes changed the nature of what was supposed to be a
scholarly conference to that of a political convention.
Criticisms were also leveled at the symposium's structure of control. One
Israeli participant became so disturbed by the lack of any open discussion
of the problems of Wagner/Hitler/Holocaust and the violation of academic
freedom that was imposed on the conference by the Bayreuth organizers, that
he walked out publicly and in protest on the second evening of the event.
The conference, it seems, had a prearranged agenda; i.e., to secure the
lifting of the Israeli ban on Wagner and then to use this as a certificate
of good health in Germany. In this way Bayreuth would be redeemed,
sanitized, and restored to its prime position in German culture. At the
symposium's conclusion, a public invitation materialized inviting Wolfgang
Wagner, the composer's grandson, to a 1999 conference on Wagner to be held
in Tel Aviv along with the suggestion that his visit might be celebrated
with a public performance of Wagner's music in Israel.
WAGNER'S HERITAGE
Wagner's loathing of Jews is a much-examined topic in the vast biographical
literature about the composer. A consensus of the opinions of many of those
examining the subject, focuses on a seminal phobia in Wagner's life, an
anxiety responsible for his efforts to distance himself from Jews, namely
his belief that he was of Jewish origin.
Wagner was not certain of his father's identity, and one possibility was
that the actor, poet, and painter Ludwig Geyer, a man who Wagner suspected
of being of Jewish descent, sired him. No proof is available to resolve the
biological question, nor does it matter, the overriding consideration being
not whose son he was, but who and what Wagner thought his father might have
been. So consumed was he with the question of his own heritage that he may
have held suspicions of a possible Jewish ancestry for his mother, too.
Thus, it is suggested that Wagner became one of the most vocal antisemites
in Europe as a means of focusing attention away from his own ethnicity.
Sadly, there are many cases of such extreme examples of self-hatred.
The idea of a fatherless hero appears at least five times in Wagner's music
dramas. Siegfried, Siegmund, Tristan, Parsifal, and Walther were all either
unaware of who their fathers were or else had the father disappear or die
when they were young. It is difficult to see this "leitmotif" reoccur so
many times in Wagner's operas and not believe that he was obsessed with the
matter.
The potential for Wagner's possible Jewish descent was exploited by
detractors of his music, often in caricatures that appeared in the press,
where he is shown with an excessively large nose designed to resemble the
stereotypical "distinctive physiognomy" which Jews were accused of
possessing. Such caricatures also burlesqued other unVolkish physicalities
in Wagner. He was short, large of head, and had an excitable nature.
In Theodore Adorno's In Search of Wagner (1981), he points out that Wagner's
own early depiction of the gnome, Mime, an important character in The Ring,
was so psychologically self-descriptive that he withdrew and replaced it as
soon as he realized what he had done; i.e., Wagner had described some of his
own physical characteristics: "[Mime] is small and bent, somewhat deformed
and hobbling. His head is abnormally large, his face a dark ashen color and
wrinkled, his eyes small and piercing, with red rims, his grey beard long
and scrubby, his head bald..." The description of Mime, which later also
depicts him as having an excitable nature, is a traditional antisemitic
stereotype. How shocked Wagner must have been to see himself in a
description of the prototypical subhuman.
ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS AND A PERSONAL NOTE
Performing Wagner's music in an orchestra gives one no special insight into
matters beyond those of how the music goes. Orchestral players are
specialists in the difficult task of performing specific orchestral parts,
and while some go beyond that because of personal curiosity and intellectual
interest, it is not part of the job. Even some conductors do not inquire
beyond that printed in the orchestral score. A friend and colleague of mine,
who held a principal chair with the Metropolitan Opera Orchestra for 30
years, knew very little of the characters or the plots of the operas that he
performed so many times, though he carried off his role as a critical
orchestral player brilliantly. In my own case, I have performed the
Nutcracker ballet more than 500 times but have no idea what happens on stage
except that mice are somehow involved, a fact that I deduced when a heavy
mechanical mouse used for one production wandered off the stage, tumbled
into the orchestra pit, glanced off my head and shoulder, and disabled me
for several weeks.
All this is by way of saying that, though I have played a great deal of
Wagner's orchestral music over the years, the preparation of this article
required considerable study of the Wagner literature. It was there that I
benefitted from the specialized research of some remarkably sophisticated
historians and social scientists, many of whom have spent a great part of
their adult lives plowing deep furrows in this gnarled and unpleasant
pasture.
In addition to the brilliant Wagner: Race and Revolution of Paul Lawrence
Rose quoted from above (and with whom I had exceptionally useful
correspondence some of which influenced my views about the Bayreuth
conference of August 1998), I mention two other seminal research efforts in
this domain. They are Marc A. Weiner's profound but disturbing book, Richard
Wagner and the Anti-Semitic Imagination (1995), and Barry Millington's
seminal article, "Is there anti-semitism in Die Meistersinger?" (Cambridge
Opera Journal, 1991) now summarized in the New Grove Dictionary of Opera.
I thank Uri Toeplitz, retired principal flute of the Israel Philharmonic and
a member of the orchestra at the time of the first concert under Arturo
Toscanini, for supplying me with the details of the IPO's history regarding
the playing of Wagner's music.
My career as an orchestral player has been over for a few years. But if I
were still performing - being sensitized now to what I did not know then - I
am not sure that I would be able to play any more of Wagner's music,
contractual obligations and its extraordinary beauty and fascinating
architecture notwithstanding. It has even become too painful for me to
listen to it and, for this decision, I am musically poorer. But having lived
through the period of the Shoah and seeing, from my safe haven in the
America of my birth, where Wagner's brand of thinking leads, and, more
important, finding so much of that thinking coded into his music dramas, I
do not wish to give such bigotry any further space in my life. Despite the
music's extraordinary richness, it is not worth the pain.
I speak for no one but myself, offer no opinions on what others should do,
and proffer no judgements about those who travel a different path.
Jim F.
Well, what do you want from the Roderick Spode of Usenet?
Jim F.
>
> TK9
>
>
The Abstraction of Justice
> Well, what do you want from the Roderick Spode of Usenet?
If I resemble Spode in any way then you must surely be the splitting
image of Barabas.
The Abstraction of Justice
>
> The Obfuscation of Justice didn't claim to have any proficiency in visual
> arts, yet he bragged about being a "musicologist" (in spite of his total
> arrogance of the subject expressed in some previous post of his, where he
> acknowledged to have never heard of Albenis!)
> That is why I limited my list to the first dozen or so of small time Jewish
> names that came to my mind and which should be familiar to any
> "musicologist..."
>
> Isn't is amazing how people who claim to have a doctorate degrees make fools
> of themselves, Jim?
>
> TK9
I never claimed to have a doctorate. As for musicology I have studied
scales, keys, chords, harmonic progression & counterpoint. I can
compose music phrases in different keys, modulate between them,
harmonize melodies with a figurative bass, put together fugues,
sonatas, dally with chromatism, plumb the depths with deep and dark
diminished sevenths. I can write a decent melody or two. So yes, I
consider that I am a musicologist, as I have studied music on a formal
level and have sufficient competence to knock up a piece or three. I
have not heard much of Albeniz. I try to restrict my studies of
other's works because I don't want them to infect my style. Perhaps if
Gershwin and Bernstein and Hammerstein hadn't studied under other Jews
they may have composed something decent instead of African-Jew bongo
bongo music. As someone once said, possibly he was a Jew, 'Its better
to compose than to play and better to play rather than listen.' That's
why I'm better than Barrowboin or Levine.
Compare these lyrics:
In spite of all temptations to belong to other Nations, he remains an
Englishman, he remains an Englishman (W.S Gilbert the Englishman).
Bess you is my woman now. (Gershwin the Jew).
You see how the Englishman promotes his patriotism explicitly and in
verse while the Jew promotes African multiculturalism with retarded
language. This is the difference between Jews and Englishmen. When
both are abroad they both seek wealth and power, but whereas the
Englishman offers literature, diplomacy and invention, the Jew offers
immigration & trash culture. Jewish hatred kills whatever sparkle of
art there is within them.
Look at Carmen, 90 minutes of melody, but no emotion. The only stir is
the gypsy drinking song during Act II, ast least I think its Act II.
90 minutes of perfect melody but no emotion is a symptom of the Jewish
mind of Bizet, all logic and no soul. Now compare to the transcendence
of Parsifal or the warmth of the Magic Flute or the raw emotion and
power of Aida, or even the light hearted fun of the Gondoliers.
German, English and Italians can write soul touching music. Jews
can't.
L Alpert
> "TonyaK9" <Ton...@excite.com> wrote in message
> news:<I0Wfc.13037$k05....@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>...
>
>>
>> The Obfuscation of Justice didn't claim to have any proficiency in
>> visual arts, yet he bragged about being a "musicologist" (in spite
>> of his total arrogance of the subject expressed in some previous
>> post of his, where he acknowledged to have never heard of Albenis!)
>> That is why I limited my list to the first dozen or so of small time
>> Jewish names that came to my mind and which should be familiar to any
>> "musicologist..."
>>
>> Isn't is amazing how people who claim to have a doctorate degrees
>> make fools of themselves, Jim?
>>
>> TK9
>
> I never claimed to have a doctorate. As for musicology I have studied
> scales, keys, chords, harmonic progression & counterpoint. I can
> compose music phrases in different keys, modulate between them,
> harmonize melodies with a figurative bass, put together fugues,
> sonatas, dally with chromatism, plumb the depths with deep and dark
> diminished sevenths. I can write a decent melody or two. So yes, I
> consider that I am a musicologist, as I have studied music on a formal
> level and have sufficient competence to knock up a piece or three. I
> have not heard much of Albeniz. I try to restrict my studies of
> other's works because I don't want them to infect my style.
In other words, you are lazy.....
> Perhaps if
> Gershwin and Bernstein and Hammerstein hadn't studied under other Jews
> they may have composed something decent instead of African-Jew bongo
> bongo music. As someone once said, possibly he was a Jew, 'Its better
> to compose than to play and better to play rather than listen.' That's
> why I'm better than Barrowboin or Levine.
For something that isn't "decent", they were pretty popular. Do you care to
cite your published works? Envy is a poor replacement for real talent.
>
> Compare these lyrics:
>
> In spite of all temptations to belong to other Nations, he remains an
> Englishman, he remains an Englishman (W.S Gilbert the Englishman).
>
> Bess you is my woman now. (Gershwin the Jew).
>
> You see how the Englishman promotes his patriotism explicitly and in
> verse while the Jew promotes African multiculturalism with retarded
> language.
Are you saying that the original ebonics are garnished from Jewish authored
songs? I knew we controlled the black man, I didn't know how completely.
Thanks for pointing this out.
> This is the difference between Jews and Englishmen. When
> both are abroad they both seek wealth and power, but whereas the
> Englishman offers literature, diplomacy and invention, the Jew offers
> immigration & trash culture. Jewish hatred kills whatever sparkle of
> art there is within them.
The typical brit is whiney, snobbish and ill mannered.
>
> Look at Carmen, 90 minutes of melody, but no emotion. The only stir is
> the gypsy drinking song during Act II, ast least I think its Act II.
> 90 minutes of perfect melody but no emotion is a symptom of the Jewish
> mind of Bizet, all logic and no soul. Now compare to the transcendence
> of Parsifal or the warmth of the Magic Flute or the raw emotion and
> power of Aida, or even the light hearted fun of the Gondoliers.
> German, English and Italians can write soul touching music. Jews
> can't.
It seems your professional opinion is quite blinded by hatred and your
studies have been wasted. You have a double whammy, goy and brit.......
The Abstraction of Justice
> >> The Obfuscation of Justice didn't claim to have any proficiency in
> >> visual arts, yet he bragged about being a "musicologist" (in spite
> >> of his total arrogance of the subject expressed in some previous
> >> post of his, where he acknowledged to have never heard of Albenis!)
Does one have to paint these days to study music?
> >> That is why I limited my list to the first dozen or so of small time
> >> Jewish names that came to my mind and which should be familiar to any
> >> "musicologist..."
> >>
> >> Isn't is amazing how people who claim to have a doctorate degrees
> >> make fools of themselves, Jim?
<SNIP MY REASONS FOR NOT STUDYING ALL COMPOSERS IN THE WORLD>
> In other words, you are lazy.....
That's a malicious interpretation of my words. I truly doubt you have
universal knowledge of all music. What is your favourite Gregorian
Chant?
>
> > Perhaps if
> > Gershwin and Bernstein and Hammerstein hadn't studied under other Jews
> > they may have composed something decent instead of African-Jew bongo
> > bongo music. As someone once said, possibly he was a Jew, 'Its better
> > to compose than to play and better to play rather than listen.' That's
> > why I'm better than Barrowboin or Levine.
>
> For something that isn't "decent", they were pretty popular.
So are the Sex Pistols, Puff Daddy and Neil Diamond. Indecent people,
albeit popular.
> Do you care to
> cite your published works? Envy is a poor replacement for real talent.
I haven't published anything. I am still learning. I only started
learning music seriously at the age of 24.
> > Compare these lyrics:
> >
> > In spite of all temptations to belong to other Nations, he remains an
> > Englishman, he remains an Englishman (W.S Gilbert the Englishman).
> >
> > Bess you is my woman now. (Gershwin the Jew).
> >
> > You see how the Englishman promotes his patriotism explicitly and in
> > verse while the Jew promotes African multiculturalism with retarded
> > language.
>
> Are you saying that the original ebonics are garnished from Jewish authored
> songs? I knew we controlled the black man, I didn't know how completely.
> Thanks for pointing this out.
It needed saying and your appreciation is welcome.
> > This is the difference between Jews and Englishmen. When
> > both are abroad they both seek wealth and power, but whereas the
> > Englishman offers literature, diplomacy and invention, the Jew offers
> > immigration & trash culture. Jewish hatred kills whatever sparkle of
> > art there is within them.
>
> The typical brit is whiney, snobbish and ill mannered.
That may be true, but we are milder mannered than Jews who use such
words as Goy; we are a lot less snobbish, as we tend to employ people
on the grounds of their talents rather than their race; oh and we are
less prone to whine and whinge. So many Jews always whinge about such
subjects as their holocaust and antisemitism. Don't they realize that
other people suffer more? Jews have it easy, they have no cause to
complain. If we should envy Jews one things, it's their lack of
sufferance.
> It seems your professional opinion is quite blinded by hatred and your
> studies have been wasted. You have a double whammy, goy and brit.....
Blinded by hate? Since when did anyone ever cry at the end of Carmen?
It was only recently that I studied Jewish supremacism that I came to
dislike a good deal of the Jewish race. Carmen felt cold before and
after. I didn't know that Bizet was Jewish until very recently, so no,
you are quite wrong, I am not blinded by hate.
As for the Jewish music cabal in the US, it has always sickened me.
Hand in hand with blacks, and preaching to them that we oppress. Jews
are largely to blame for the demoralization and cultural sabotage of
the African races. Before you came along they were practising poetry
and contrapuntal composition. Now they just hit drums and sing of
drugs all day long. Typical of a society with too many Jews. Jews at
the top and scum from the bottom at the top with them. Every Jew in a
top post is ten opportunities for the natives wasted.
The Abstraction of Justice
> >
> > If Jews want my love all they have to do is oppose multiculturalism in
> > England and emigrate to Israel. In that case I would gladly support
> > all of their Zionist policies.
>
> Jews "want your love"???
>
> You are terribly confused, Obfuscation of Justice.
> It is Napoleon who wants your love.
> The emergency people are on their way, and they will take you to a clean
> quiet room with soft walls, there you'll be able to meet him in person and
> finally relax...
>
You told me that Jews love everyone. Clearly that does not apply to
me. Maybe you were lying....again.
Jim F.
"The Abstraction of Justice" <vigilante...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in
message news:d37c79d.04041...@posting.google.com...
You resemble Spode in terms of your political views. Also, you're
just as daft as the character drawn by Wodehouse. I am just waiting
for you to form your own unit of Blackshorts, anytime now.
Here, you can even use this speech:
"Brother Blackshorts, as I stand before you, we are on the
brink of victory. Our policies are clear. Our policies are just.
Our policies are fully laid out in my book with the England price
of three and six pence for all good booksellers. Our policies
are: One, the right-nay--the duty of every freeborn Englishman
to grow his own potatoes! Two, an immediate ban on the import
of foreign root-vegetables into the United Kingdom! And, three,
the compulsory, scientific measurement of all adult males knees!
Not to the trueborn Englishman, the bony, angular knee of the
so-called intellectual; not to him the pathy knee of the criminal
classes; the British knee is firm, the British knee is muscular,
the British knee is on the march!"
I just hope for your sake that you have good knees.
L Alpert
> news:<owbgc.2975$hw5.3478@attbi_s53>...
>
>>>> The Obfuscation of Justice didn't claim to have any proficiency in
>>>> visual arts, yet he bragged about being a "musicologist" (in spite
>>>> of his total arrogance of the subject expressed in some previous
>>>> post of his, where he acknowledged to have never heard of Albenis!)
>
> Does one have to paint these days to study music?
>
>>>> That is why I limited my list to the first dozen or so of small
>>>> time Jewish names that came to my mind and which should be
>>>> familiar to any "musicologist..."
>>>>
>>>> Isn't is amazing how people who claim to have a doctorate degrees
>>>> make fools of themselves, Jim?
>
> <SNIP MY REASONS FOR NOT STUDYING ALL COMPOSERS IN THE WORLD>
>
>> In other words, you are lazy.....
>
> That's a malicious interpretation of my words. I truly doubt you have
> universal knowledge of all music. What is your favourite Gregorian
> Chant?
I don't claim to have universal knowledge of all music. I wouldn't think
there is anyone that would have an all encompassing knowledge in any
specific subject. I have know some that claim it, but I do not take them
seriously.
I see you also happen to "snip" your own comments that I referred to as
being lazy. Pretty convenient cutting.
>
>>
>>> Perhaps if
>>> Gershwin and Bernstein and Hammerstein hadn't studied under other
>>> Jews they may have composed something decent instead of African-Jew
>>> bongo bongo music. As someone once said, possibly he was a Jew,
>>> 'Its better to compose than to play and better to play rather than
>>> listen.' That's why I'm better than Barrowboin or Levine.
>>
>> For something that isn't "decent", they were pretty popular.
>
> So are the Sex Pistols, Puff Daddy and Neil Diamond. Indecent people,
> albeit popular.
You are inferring your personal taste is analogous to morality (decency),
which it isn't. It is a representation of your own ideals only. The sex
pistols were actually not too bad.
>
>> Do you care to
>> cite your published works? Envy is a poor replacement for real
>> talent.
>
> I haven't published anything. I am still learning. I only started
> learning music seriously at the age of 24.
Well, when you surpass those that are published, let me know. Your critique
of Jewish composers is nothing more than sour grapes.
>
>>> Compare these lyrics:
>>>
>>> In spite of all temptations to belong to other Nations, he remains
>>> an Englishman, he remains an Englishman (W.S Gilbert the
>>> Englishman).
>>>
>>> Bess you is my woman now. (Gershwin the Jew).
>>>
>>> You see how the Englishman promotes his patriotism explicitly and in
>>> verse while the Jew promotes African multiculturalism with retarded
>>> language.
>>
>> Are you saying that the original ebonics are garnished from Jewish
>> authored songs? I knew we controlled the black man, I didn't know
>> how completely. Thanks for pointing this out.
>
> It needed saying and your appreciation is welcome.
>
At least I know our original plan was working before it was revamped.
>>> This is the difference between Jews and Englishmen. When
>>> both are abroad they both seek wealth and power, but whereas the
>>> Englishman offers literature, diplomacy and invention, the Jew
>>> offers immigration & trash culture. Jewish hatred kills whatever
>>> sparkle of art there is within them.
>>
>> The typical brit is whiney, snobbish and ill mannered.
>
> That may be true, but we are milder mannered than Jews who use such
> words as Goy; we are a lot less snobbish, as we tend to employ people
> on the grounds of their talents rather than their race;
Bullshit, bullshit, and more bullshit. Your population as a whole is
borderline childish and self narcissistic. There is so little good from
your little corner of the globe, I find it hard to believe you kind can be
so snobbishly boring. Talent, it seems, you have problems in recognizing,
so your hiring selection process is useless.
oh and we are
> less prone to whine and whinge.
WTF? Your whining in your previous post, you whine now. I don't know you
personally, but I'd be willing to bet you have been whining all of your
life.
>So many Jews always whinge about such
> subjects as their holocaust and antisemitism. Don't they realize that
> other people suffer more?
We don't give a shit about other people, that's your problem, so stop
whining about your own suffering, already.
>Jews have it easy, they have no cause to
> complain. If we should envy Jews one things, it's their lack of
> sufferance.
>
You doth protest too much. It is easy to see that you don't even believe
your own rants.
>> It seems your professional opinion is quite blinded by hatred and
>> your studies have been wasted. You have a double whammy, goy and
>> brit.....
>
> Blinded by hate? Since when did anyone ever cry at the end of Carmen?
Carmen has nothing to do with your own beliefs.
> It was only recently that I studied Jewish supremacism that I came to
> dislike a good deal of the Jewish race.
That would be nice if being Jewish was a race, but it isn't.
>Carmen felt cold before and
> after. I didn't know that Bizet was Jewish until very recently, so no,
> you are quite wrong, I am not blinded by hate.
>
Sure you are, so much so that you don't even know it.
> As for the Jewish music cabal in the US, it has always sickened me.
> Hand in hand with blacks, and preaching to them that we oppress. Jews
> are largely to blame for the demoralization and cultural sabotage of
> the African races. Before you came along they were practising poetry
> and contrapuntal composition. Now they just hit drums and sing of
> drugs all day long. Typical of a society with too many Jews. Jews at
> the top and scum from the bottom at the top with them. Every Jew in a
> top post is ten opportunities for the natives wasted.
Of course I should have know you are oblivious. You have been around too
many goyim lately. You should hang with Jews and learn how to market your
trashy muzak. It seems, even the white man won't buy it, so it must be of
poor quality.
AMF, you whiney limey.
L Alpert
He seems to have had plenty of practice being on them.......
The Abstraction of Justice
> >>> Gershwin and Bernstein and Hammerstein hadn't studied under other
> >>> Jews they may have composed something decent instead of African-Jew
> >>> bongo bongo music. As someone once said, possibly he was a Jew,
> >>> 'Its better to compose than to play and better to play rather than
> >>> listen.' That's why I'm better than Barrowboin or Levine.
> >>
> >> For something that isn't "decent", they were pretty popular.
> >
> > So are the Sex Pistols, Puff Daddy and Neil Diamond. Indecent people,
> > albeit popular.
>
> You are inferring your personal taste is analogous to morality (decency),
> which it isn't. It is a representation of your own ideals only. The sex
> pistols were actually not too bad.
You are a moron. The sex pistols were awful. As is all pop and rock.
Classical music is the culture of the decent man. Pop is the culture
of the ignorant.
> > I haven't published anything. I am still learning. I only started
> > learning music seriously at the age of 24.
>
> Well, when you surpass those that are published, let me know. Your critique
> of Jewish composers is nothing more than sour grapes.
Nope. They have nothing on the European composers.
> >> The typical brit is whiney, snobbish and ill mannered.
> >
> > That may be true, but we are milder mannered than Jews who use such
> > words as Goy; we are a lot less snobbish, as we tend to employ people
> > on the grounds of their talents rather than their race;
>
> Bullshit, bullshit, and more bullshit. Your population as a whole is
> borderline childish and self narcissistic. There is so little good from
> your little corner of the globe, I find it hard to believe you kind can be
> so snobbishly boring. Talent, it seems, you have problems in recognizing,
> so your hiring selection process is useless.
You speak of your own race. They invented self-love, which they call
being god's chosen. It is of course, highly childish. They only good
you can find in the world is in England, it is found nowhere else.
> oh and we are less prone to whine and whinge.
>
> WTF? Your whining in your previous post, you whine now. I don't know you
> personally, but I'd be willing to bet you have been whining all of your
> life.
You are whining louder now. I bet that your father and mother whined
too. About how they survived the holocaust no doubt. The easiest way
to survive a holocaust is never to have been involved I find.
> >So many Jews always whinge about such
> > subjects as their holocaust and antisemitism. Don't they realize that
> > other people suffer more?
>
> We don't give a shit about other people, that's your problem, so stop
> whining about your own suffering, already.
Not true, you care so much you want to invade their countries and take
over their media and their political systems.
> >Jews have it easy, they have no cause to
> > complain. If we should envy Jews one things, it's their lack of
> > sufferance.
> >
> You doth protest too much. It is easy to see that you don't even believe
> your own rants.
Protest? Nope, I am merely showing you envy at how fortunate you are.
> Carmen has nothing to do with your own beliefs.
It has everything to do with my appraisal of Carmen though.
>
> > It was only recently that I studied Jewish supremacism that I came to
> > dislike a good deal of the Jewish race.
>
> That would be nice if being Jewish was a race, but it isn't.
Religion of the big nosed brown eyed people with black curly hair.
> Of course I should have know you are oblivious. You have been around too
> many goyim lately. You should hang with Jews and learn how to market your
> trashy muzak. It seems, even the white man won't buy it, so it must be of
> poor quality.
I haven't yet tried to publish, as I have said, I am still studying.
You have been around too many pig dog Zionazis.
> AMF, you whiney limey.
Tata, kike.
Susan Cohen
Uh, only in the fashion the bigot mentioned.
What the British - and especially their stepchildren, the Americans - have
historically done is tried to obliterate any culture that is not like
theirs, forcibly insisting on assimilation. As far as "literature" and
"invention" - again, I point the bigot to the lists of Nobel Prize winners.
All the British people I now, personally, are quite lovely.
>
> >
> > Look at Carmen, 90 minutes of melody, but no emotion. The only stir is
> > the gypsy drinking song during Act II, ast least I think its Act II.
> > 90 minutes of perfect melody but no emotion is a symptom of the Jewish
> > mind of Bizet, all logic and no soul.
Carmen is logcial, but not soulful???
Melodic, not emotional???
Now compare to the transcendence
> > of Parsifal or the warmth of the Magic Flute or the raw emotion and
> > power of Aida, or even the light hearted fun of the Gondoliers.
> > German, English and Italians can write soul touching music. Jews
> > can't.
>
> It seems your professional opinion is quite blinded by hatred and your
> studies have been wasted. You have a double whammy, goy and brit.......
>
He's obviously tone-deaf as well!!
Susan
>
>
Susan Cohen
> The Abstraction of Justice wrote:
> > "L Alpert" <alp...@xxcomcast.net> wrote in message
> > news:<owbgc.2975$hw5.3478@attbi_s53>...
> >
> >>>> The Obfuscation of Justice didn't claim to have any proficiency in
> >>>> visual arts, yet he bragged about being a "musicologist" (in spite
> >>>> of his total arrogance of the subject expressed in some previous
> >>>> post of his, where he acknowledged to have never heard of Albenis!)
> >
> > Does one have to paint these days to study music?
> >
> >>>> That is why I limited my list to the first dozen or so of small
> >>>> time Jewish names that came to my mind and which should be
> >>>> familiar to any "musicologist..."
> >>>>
> >>>> Isn't is amazing how people who claim to have a doctorate degrees
> >>>> make fools of themselves, Jim?
> >
> > <SNIP MY REASONS FOR NOT STUDYING ALL COMPOSERS IN THE WORLD>
> >
> >> In other words, you are lazy.....
> >
> > That's a malicious interpretation of my words. I truly doubt you have
> > universal knowledge of all music. What is your favourite Gregorian
> > Chant?
>
> I don't claim to have universal knowledge of all music.
You also don't claim to have it as a profession.
I wouldn't think
> there is anyone that would have an all encompassing knowledge in any
> specific subject. I have know some that claim it, but I do not take them
> seriously.
> I see you also happen to "snip" your own comments that I referred to as
> being lazy. Pretty convenient cutting.
>
> >
> >>
> >>> Perhaps if
> >>> Gershwin and Bernstein and Hammerstein hadn't studied under other
> >>> Jews they may have composed something decent instead of African-Jew
> >>> bongo bongo music. As someone once said, possibly he was a Jew,
> >>> 'Its better to compose than to play and better to play rather than
> >>> listen.' That's why I'm better than Barrowboin or Levine.
> >>
> >> For something that isn't "decent", they were pretty popular.
> >
> > So are the Sex Pistols, Puff Daddy and Neil Diamond. Indecent people,
> > albeit popular.
>
> You are inferring your personal taste is analogous to morality (decency),
> which it isn't. It is a representation of your own ideals only. The sex
> pistols were actually not too bad.
If we're going to discuss the *morals* of people in music, we could always
start with Wagner - how many affairs did he have - and what were his views
on it? That he was entitled to do so?
But nayone who equates the morals of the composer with the decency of the
music is grasping at straws.
>
> >
> >> Do you care to
> >> cite your published works? Envy is a poor replacement for real
> >> talent.
> >
> > I haven't published anything. I am still learning. I only started
> > learning music seriously at the age of 24.
>
> Well, when you surpass those that are published, let me know. Your
critique
> of Jewish composers is nothing more than sour grapes.
& we're back to the whacko Wagner!
>
> >
> >>> Compare these lyrics:
> >>>
> >>> In spite of all temptations to belong to other Nations, he remains
> >>> an Englishman, he remains an Englishman (W.S Gilbert the
> >>> Englishman).
Yes, despite how wonderful knowledge is, he stays in his own little world,
refusing to be changed by it - and it's reiterated, just so everyone knows
how close-minded he
See how interpretations can be fun?
> >>>
> >>> Bess you is my woman now. (Gershwin the Jew).
> >>>
> >>> You see how the Englishman promotes his patriotism explicitly and in
> >>> verse while the Jew promotes African multiculturalism with retarded
> >>> language.
What a lying idiot.
It wasn't "Jooooz" who invented blackface, nor was it "Joooz" who did
minstrel shows.
> >>
> >> Are you saying that the original ebonics are garnished from Jewish
> >> authored songs? I knew we controlled the black man, I didn't know
> >> how completely. Thanks for pointing this out.
> >
> > It needed saying and your appreciation is welcome.
> >
>
> At least I know our original plan was working before it was revamped.
He's dumb enough to believe this....
>
> >>> This is the difference between Jews and Englishmen. When
> >>> both are abroad they both seek wealth and power, but whereas the
> >>> Englishman offers literature, diplomacy and invention, the Jew
> >>> offers immigration & trash culture. Jewish hatred kills whatever
> >>> sparkle of art there is within them.
> >>
> >> The typical brit is whiney, snobbish and ill mannered.
> >
> > That may be true, but we are milder mannered than Jews who use such
> > words as Goy;
And we're milder mannered than Brits who lie about what the word means in
order to slander Jews.
We're also milder mannered than Brits who only just this past week had to
*grudgingly* admit that they had no grounds for banning shechita, & even
then didn't have the grace to do it openly, but rather announce it like they
were doing Jews a favor instead of realizing their obvious mistake.
we are a lot less snobbish, as we tend to employ people
> > on the grounds of their talents rather than their race;
>
> Bullshit, bullshit, and more bullshit. Your population as a whole is
> borderline childish and self narcissistic.
Hey, that could be said of Americans as well...
There is so little good from
> your little corner of the globe, I find it hard to believe you kind can be
> so snobbishly boring. Talent, it seems, you have problems in recognizing,
> so your hiring selection process is useless.
>
>
> oh and we are
> > less prone to whine and whinge.
>
> WTF? Your whining in your previous post, you whine now. I don't know you
> personally, but I'd be willing to bet you have been whining all of your
> life.
I'd say more whinging than whining.
Definitely.
>
>
> >So many Jews always whinge about such
> > subjects as their holocaust and antisemitism. Don't they realize that
> > other people suffer more?
>
> We don't give a shit about other people, that's your problem, so stop
> whining about your own suffering, already.
He's going to quote you on this.
It would have been better to point out that we "winge on" about the
Holocaust & anti-semitism because
a) people like him try to triviliaze it
b) we know that we are never the sole victims of any bigotry; bigotry hurts
EVERYONE.
>
> >Jews have it easy, they have no cause to
> > complain. If we should envy Jews one things, it's their lack of
> > sufferance.
> >
>
> You doth protest too much. It is easy to see that you don't even believe
> your own rants.
He certainly can't see his own reflectionin them, to be sure.
>
> >> It seems your professional opinion is quite blinded by hatred and
> >> your studies have been wasted. You have a double whammy, goy and
> >> brit.....
> >
> > Blinded by hate? Since when did anyone ever cry at the end of Carmen?
>
> Carmen has nothing to do with your own beliefs.
Did anyone cry at the end of the Ring Cycle?
Or do they just wake up & go home?
I'm sure there are plenty of people who cried at Carmen.
Probably the same who cry at Madama Butterfly.
Maybe less....
>
> > It was only recently that I studied Jewish supremacism that I came to
> > dislike a good deal of the Jewish race.
>
> That would be nice if being Jewish was a race, but it isn't.
Oh, I want to hear where the liar found "Jewish supremacism" to "study"!!!
>
> >Carmen felt cold before and
> > after. I didn't know that Bizet was Jewish until very recently, so no,
> > you are quite wrong, I am not blinded by hate.
> >
>
> Sure you are, so much so that you don't even know it.
>
> > As for the Jewish music cabal in the US, it has always sickened me.
> > Hand in hand with blacks, and preaching to them that we oppress. Jews
> > are largely to blame for the demoralization and cultural sabotage of
> > the African races. Before you came along they were practising poetry
> > and contrapuntal composition. Now they just hit drums and sing of
> > drugs all day long. Typical of a society with too many Jews. Jews at
> > the top and scum from the bottom at the top with them. Every Jew in a
> > top post is ten opportunities for the natives wasted.
>
> Of course I should have know you are oblivious. You have been around too
> many goyim lately. You should hang with Jews and learn how to market your
> trashy muzak. It seems, even the white man won't buy it, so it must be of
> poor quality.
>
> AMF, you whiney limey.
Yes, it does sound like he's jealous that *he's* not abusing people, so he
invents abuse for others (who have *achieved*) to be perpetrating.
Susan
>
>
L Alpert
> news:<vuigc.14810$0b4.23169@attbi_s51>...
>
>>>>> Gershwin and Bernstein and Hammerstein hadn't studied under other
>>>>> Jews they may have composed something decent instead of
>>>>> African-Jew bongo bongo music. As someone once said, possibly he
>>>>> was a Jew, 'Its better to compose than to play and better to play
>>>>> rather than listen.' That's why I'm better than Barrowboin or
>>>>> Levine.
>>>>
>>>> For something that isn't "decent", they were pretty popular.
>>>
>>> So are the Sex Pistols, Puff Daddy and Neil Diamond. Indecent
>>> people, albeit popular.
>>
>> You are inferring your personal taste is analogous to morality
>> (decency), which it isn't. It is a representation of your own
>> ideals only. The sex pistols were actually not too bad.
>
> You are a moron. The sex pistols were awful. As is all pop and rock.
I can see your formal education has failed to open you mind.
> Classical music is the culture of the decent man. Pop is the culture
> of the ignorant.
Only for those that are of petulantly adolescent minds
>
>>> I haven't published anything. I am still learning. I only started
>>> learning music seriously at the age of 24.
>>
>> Well, when you surpass those that are published, let me know. Your
>> critique of Jewish composers is nothing more than sour grapes.
>
> Nope. They have nothing on the European composers.
Well, there has not been a good replacement for the Beatles in 35 years, so
you may at least have fallen over a point.
>
>>>> The typical brit is whiney, snobbish and ill mannered.
>>>
>>> That may be true, but we are milder mannered than Jews who use such
>>> words as Goy; we are a lot less snobbish, as we tend to employ
>>> people on the grounds of their talents rather than their race;
>>
>> Bullshit, bullshit, and more bullshit. Your population as a whole is
>> borderline childish and self narcissistic. There is so little good
>> from your little corner of the globe, I find it hard to believe you
>> kind can be so snobbishly boring. Talent, it seems, you have
>> problems in recognizing, so your hiring selection process is useless.
>
> You speak of your own race.
My race is American...
> They invented self-love, which they call
> being god's chosen.
And it seems you practice the opposite of that, which would be self
loathing.
>It is of course, highly childish. They only good
> you can find in the world is in England, it is found nowhere else.
Good? You are just one Tsunami away from being gone. You guys couldn't
even take on your own colonies.
>
>> oh and we are less prone to whine and whinge.
>>
>> WTF? Your whining in your previous post, you whine now. I don't
>> know you personally, but I'd be willing to bet you have been whining
>> all of your life.
>
> You are whining louder now.
No, I am only making an observation.
>I bet that your father and mother whined
> too.
You will need to come up with your own ideas. I already used the whining
one. But thanks for the flattery.
>About how they survived the holocaust no doubt. The easiest way
> to survive a holocaust is never to have been involved I find.
I see how you twist muzak into perpetuating lies. So typical it's boring.
Such is the rant of the commoner.
>
>>> So many Jews always whinge about such
>>> subjects as their holocaust and antisemitism. Don't they realize
>>> that other people suffer more?
>>
>> We don't give a shit about other people, that's your problem, so stop
>> whining about your own suffering, already.
>
> Not true, you care so much you want to invade their countries and take
> over their media and their political systems.
It was no invasion, it was a cold, calculated event. It's not my fault
people like you have no idea how to capitalize on an opportunity. No wonder
you are unpublished......we must be holding you back..right?
>
>>> Jews have it easy, they have no cause to
>>> complain. If we should envy Jews one things, it's their lack of
>>> sufferance.
>>>
>> You doth protest too much. It is easy to see that you don't even
>> believe your own rants.
>
> Protest? Nope, I am merely showing you envy at how fortunate you are.
>
No need showing me. American and Jew, the best possible combination on the
planet. It is indeed an envious position. No wonder you whine so much.
What ever has not went well in your life is either mine fault, or the fault
of others like me. You are such a great victim, already.
>> Carmen has nothing to do with your own beliefs.
>
> It has everything to do with my appraisal of Carmen though.
>
Your appraisals seem to carry little weight.
>>
>>> It was only recently that I studied Jewish supremacism that I came
>>> to dislike a good deal of the Jewish race.
>>
>> That would be nice if being Jewish was a race, but it isn't.
>
> Religion of the big nosed brown eyed people with black curly hair.
See comment in regards to appraisals above. Are you sure you have finished
elementary school yet?
>
>> Of course I should have know you are oblivious. You have been
>> around too many goyim lately. You should hang with Jews and learn
>> how to market your trashy muzak. It seems, even the white man won't
>> buy it, so it must be of poor quality.
>
> I haven't yet tried to publish, as I have said, I am still studying.
Right. In other words, you have not authored anything of any consequence.
The perpetual student. No wonder you whine so much, you've probably never
had to do anything but go to school and critique everyone else.
> You have been around too many pig dog Zionazis.
Are you sure you are still a student? You haven't learned much about
people, let alone muzak.
L Alpert
All the ones I have met professionally are arrogant and stubborn. The other
side of the coin are those in this forum. Take for instance, Daniel (up
goran's sphincter) Bernard, goran, and this bloke. Of course I realize that
this is an extremely small sample size, and there are plenty of good, well
rounded individuals on the isle, but for the purpose of the exercise in this
group, there is little to offer from that end.
>>
>>>
>>> Look at Carmen, 90 minutes of melody, but no emotion. The only stir
>>> is the gypsy drinking song during Act II, ast least I think its Act
>>> II. 90 minutes of perfect melody but no emotion is a symptom of the
>>> Jewish mind of Bizet, all logic and no soul.
>
> Carmen is logcial, but not soulful???
> Melodic, not emotional???
And this is from one that is supposed to be a learned critic.
>
> Now compare to the transcendence
>>> of Parsifal or the warmth of the Magic Flute or the raw emotion and
>>> power of Aida, or even the light hearted fun of the Gondoliers.
>>> German, English and Italians can write soul touching music. Jews
>>> can't.
>>
>> It seems your professional opinion is quite blinded by hatred and
>> your studies have been wasted. You have a double whammy, goy and
>> brit.......
>>
> He's obviously tone-deaf as well!!
>
> Susan
He should proceed with another profession. Se what I mean about stubborn?
Susan Cohen
> Susan Cohen wrote:
> > As far as
> > "literature" and "invention" - again, I point the bigot to the lists
> > of Nobel Prize winners.
> >
> > All the British people I now, personally, are quite lovely.
>
> All the ones I have met professionally are arrogant and stubborn. The
other
> side of the coin are those in this forum. Take for instance, Daniel (up
> goran's sphincter) Bernard,
I thought he was French? Well, no matter.
> goran,
Who, by his own logic, is not British.
Susan
L Alpert
> "L Alpert" <alp...@xxcomcast.net> wrote in message
> news:bxxgc.163478$K91.416045@attbi_s02...
>> Susan Cohen wrote:
>>> As far as
>>> "literature" and "invention" - again, I point the bigot to the lists
>>> of Nobel Prize winners.
>>>
>>> All the British people I now, personally, are quite lovely.
>>
>> All the ones I have met professionally are arrogant and stubborn.
>> The other side of the coin are those in this forum. Take for
>> instance, Daniel (up goran's sphincter) Bernard,
>
> I thought he was French? Well, no matter.
Oh well, might as well call him a member of the EU anyway. He is still
flippant and avoids truth.
>
>> goran,
>
> Who, by his own logic, is not British.
But he is living on the isle.
The Abstraction of Justice
> > I don't claim to have universal knowledge of all music.
>
> You also don't claim to have it as a profession.
No, nor do I claim to have it Santa's sack for Palestinian orphans.
Relevance?
> > You are inferring your personal taste is analogous to morality (decency),
> > which it isn't. It is a representation of your own ideals only. The sex
> > pistols were actually not too bad.
>
> If we're going to discuss the *morals* of people in music, we could always
> start with Wagner - how many affairs did he have - and what were his views
> on it? That he was entitled to do so?
Wagner's affairs were no different to those of celebrities today, or
to anyone with money and fame. Nelson and Wellington both had
mistresses. Its hysteria to claim it distinguishes Wagner in some way.
> But nayone who equates the morals of the composer with the decency of the
> music is grasping at straws.
The spirit of the composer inspires people. The morality is expressed
in music, so logically it is impossible for Jewish supremacists to
write decent music.
> Yes, despite how wonderful knowledge is, he stays in his own little world,
> refusing to be changed by it - and it's reiterated, just so everyone knows
> how close-minded he
>
> See how interpretations can be fun?
Much fun for me interpretations can be. Such as Lenin's Jewishness.
Endless fun there.
> > >>> Bess you is my woman now. (Gershwin the Jew).
> > >>>
> > >>> You see how the Englishman promotes his patriotism explicitly and in
> > >>> verse while the Jew promotes African multiculturalism with retarded
> > >>> language.
>
> What a lying idiot.
> It wasn't "Jooooz" who invented blackface, nor was it "Joooz" who did
> minstrel shows.
It was Jews who corrupted the whites. Jews who promoted endless
seventh chord progression rubbish we call Jazz.
> And we're milder mannered than Brits who lie about what the word means in
> order to slander Jews.
You have to be mild mannered, because when you speak you tend to lie
and so expose yourselves.
> We're also milder mannered than Brits who only just this past week had to
> *grudgingly* admit that they had no grounds for banning shechita, & even
> then didn't have the grace to do it openly, but rather announce it like they
> were doing Jews a favor instead of realizing their obvious mistake.
I don't know what it is, but anything that is so acidic on the tongue
deserves to be prohibited.
> > WTF? Your whining in your previous post, you whine now. I don't know you
> > personally, but I'd be willing to bet you have been whining all of your
> > life.
>
> I'd say more whinging than whining.
> Definitely.
I'd say too many adjectives and adverbs to be good English. Stick to
nouns and verbs.
> > >So many Jews always whinge about such
> > > subjects as their holocaust and antisemitism. Don't they realize that
> > > other people suffer more?
> >
> > We don't give a shit about other people, that's your problem, so stop
> > whining about your own suffering, already.
>
> He's going to quote you on this.
> It would have been better to point out that we "winge on" about the
> Holocaust & anti-semitism because
> a) people like him try to triviliaze it
> b) we know that we are never the sole victims of any bigotry; bigotry hurts
> EVERYONE.
But what would he care, to quote him, 'We don't give a shit about
other people'. Thus speaks the Jew for all Jews for all time.
> > >> It seems your professional opinion is quite blinded by hatred and
> > >> your studies have been wasted. You have a double whammy, goy and
> > >> brit.....
> > >
> > > Blinded by hate? Since when did anyone ever cry at the end of Carmen?
> >
> > Carmen has nothing to do with your own beliefs.
>
> Did anyone cry at the end of the Ring Cycle?
The tears come at different times. Basically the end is a bit of a
release and not as emotionally charged as the other acts. The most
profound part is the end of the Valkyrie and the Funeral March.
> Or do they just wake up & go home?
If it was so boring it would not have a following. If it's not to your
tastes.
>
> I'm sure there are plenty of people who cried at Carmen.
> Probably the same who cry at Madama Butterfly.
> Maybe less....
Name one. Anyone in the web universe cry to Carmen? All I hear is
silence.
> > > It was only recently that I studied Jewish supremacism that I came to
> > > dislike a good deal of the Jewish race.
> >
> > That would be nice if being Jewish was a race, but it isn't.
>
> Oh, I want to hear where the liar found "Jewish supremacism" to "study"!!!
By studying Jews.
> > >Carmen felt cold before and
> > > after. I didn't know that Bizet was Jewish until very recently, so no,
> > > you are quite wrong, I am not blinded by hate.
> > >
> >
> > Sure you are, so much so that you don't even know it.
Of course I know it. I certainly don't know the Pearl Fishers too
well, another of Bizet's I think, which is why I make no comment about
the Pearl Fishers. I've also listened to a lot of Hammerstein's
Musicals, but they are so awful I will not even bother to comment.
African guilt trip and Nazis in almost every one.
> Yes, it does sound like he's jealous that *he's* not abusing people, so he
> invents abuse for others (who have *achieved*) to be perpetrating.
Achieved what? What is your favourite bit of Jazz, and why should I be
impressed? Post us a URL to a midi file so I can look at the score.
Solemn promise I will be impartial and honest in my judgement.
The Abstraction of Justice
You should read the Jew of Malta, the villain is just like you.
L Alpert
It seems this is just another lunatic.......but at least you should be able
to carry a tune.
Jim F.
The relevant question here would be which villian you are referring
to? Barabas? But he is hardly alone in his villainy. Most of the
Christian and Muslim adversaries of Barabas do not operate
on a moral plain that is really any higher than his own. They
are nearly as treacherous as he is, and indeed, his main adversary,
Ferneze, is arguably the greater Machiavellian. Barabas, the Jew,
does what he thinks necessary to survive in the snakepit, that
Marlowe depicts Malta to have been. Barabas is hardly anyone's idea
of a saint, but then again, saints are in precious short supply in
the world that Marlowe depicted.
Jim F.
BOEDICIA
>From: "L Alpert" alp...@xxcomcast.net
>Date: 4/17/04 7:52 AM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: <owbgc.2975$hw5.3478@attbi_s53>
>The typical brit is whiney, snobbish and ill mannered.
The typical yid is a commie traitor and a foul mouthed "comic". The typical
yid
pursues wealth to the exclusion of everything else and has no difficulty
throwing farmers off their land after they have gained control of the mortgage.
The typical yid is also very ugly and hates
the white race especially the hated Anglo-Saxon. If the moron Irv Rubin were
still around he would assure you that -
"It's all the fault of the Anglo-Saxons".
The typical yid is also a usurer, if you don't believe that look at what the
interest is on your credit cards and during The Middle Ages this accursed race
was charging the European peasants 800% interest on their loans. No wonder they
were kicked out of England - twice.
>It seems your professional opinion is quite blinded by hatred and your
>studies have been wasted. You have a double whammy, goy and brit.......
These brits liberated you lot from the Krauts and should be blamed for that.
*You* lot OTOH have been the pariahs of the world for thousands of years and
with just cause.
>Are you saying that the original ebonics are garnished from Jewish authored
>songs?
Ask Al Jolson.
> I knew we controlled the black man,
Yes, one cannot fail to notice that all the liquor stores in black
neighbourhoods are jew owned. Not that the jew hangs around after the sun goes
down - too dangerous.
You are a moron.
BOEDICIA
>Date: 4/18/04 12:16 PM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: <d37c79d.04041...@posting.google.com>
>You should read the Jew of Malta, the villain is just like you.
I prefer The Merchant of Venice and Oliver Twist. The stereotypes make sense.
The Abstraction of Justice
> > You are a moron. The sex pistols were awful. As is all pop and rock.
>
> I can see your formal education has failed to open you mind.
You are a moron with no culture.
>
> > Classical music is the culture of the decent man. Pop is the culture
> > of the ignorant.
>
> Only for those that are of petulantly adolescent minds
You are a moron with no culture.
> Well, there has not been a good replacement for the Beatles in 35 years, so
> you may at least have fallen over a point.
You are a moron with no culture.
> > You speak of your own race.
>
> My race is American...
Moron - American is a nationality, not a race.
>
> > Jews invented self-love, which they call being god's chosen.
>
> And it seems you practice the opposite of that, which would be self
> loathing.
No, I am not 100% impressed with my own abilities, even I have
self-doubt, but what doubts I have do not cause me to hate.
>
> >It is of course, highly childish. They only good
> > you can find in the world is in England, it is found nowhere else.
>
> Good? You are just one Tsunami away from being gone. You guys couldn't
> even take on your own colonies.
We have under 10% foreigners within our midst. In America the figure
is more like 35%. America is demographically less stable and so more
likely to break up by civil war. We are far more stable than Israel
with its second rate economy.
> >I bet that your father and mother whined too.
>
> You will need to come up with your own ideas. I already used the whining
> one. But thanks for the flattery.
True, your lot invented self-pity and self-induldgence. Pat yourself
on the back twice again.
> >About how they survived the holocaust no doubt. The easiest way
> > to survive a holocaust is never to have been involved I find.
>
> I see how you twist muzak into perpetuating lies. So typical it's boring.
> Such is the rant of the commoner.
I wouldn't consider JS Bach muzak, nor Mozart, Beethoven, Wagner. Not
one of my four favourite composers deserves that epithet. You are
truly stupid to describe them in this way. I triumph of the Jewish
moron. Pat yourself again.
> > Not true, you care so much you want to invade their countries and take
> > over their media and their political systems.
>
> It was no invasion, it was a cold, calculated event. It's not my fault
> people like you have no idea how to capitalize on an opportunity. No wonder
> you are unpublished......we must be holding you back..right?
Event? No it was decades of fraud, theft, lies, hate and cultural
subversion. You capitalized by robbing, from the ogliarchs to petty
gangsterism, you achieve through repeated acts of evil. Jewish power
has come by Jewish corruption.
> No need showing me. American and Jew, the best possible combination on the
> planet. It is indeed an envious position. No wonder you whine so much.
> What ever has not went well in your life is either mine fault, or the fault
> of others like me. You are such a great victim, already.
You, and the people like you, are responsible for the imbecility of
jazz, rap and rock. You have no culture, as you admit yourself with
your moronic admiration of the Beatles and the Sex Pistols.
Not once in the entire of human history has a Jewish supremacist
written so much as a sentence of literature. There is no such thing as
Jewish poetry. It is a contradiction in terms.
L Alpert
>> Subject: Re: Muppets promoting Zionism
>> From: "L Alpert" alp...@xxcomcast.net
>> Date: 4/17/04 7:52 AM Pacific Daylight Time
>> Message-id: <owbgc.2975$hw5.3478@attbi_s53>
>
>> The typical brit is whiney, snobbish and ill mannered.
>
> The typical yid is a commie traitor and a foul mouthed "comic". The
> typical yid
> pursues wealth to the exclusion of everything else and has no
> difficulty throwing farmers off their land after they have gained
> control of the mortgage. The typical yid is also very ugly and hates
> the white race especially the hated Anglo-Saxon. If the moron Irv
> Rubin were still around he would assure you that -
We don't hate those we subjugate.....we, of course, love them.
>
> "It's all the fault of the Anglo-Saxons".
>
> The typical yid is also a usurer, if you don't believe that look at
> what the interest is on your credit cards and during The Middle Ages
> this accursed race was charging the European peasants 800% interest
> on their loans. No wonder they were kicked out of England - twice.
And now we own so much. It is good to have learned so much in those early
years. We have perfected our economic grip as we only now start to apply
leverage to it.
Get used to it. We will not be denied. The world is ours for the taking.
>
>> It seems your professional opinion is quite blinded by hatred and
>> your studies have been wasted. You have a double whammy, goy and
>> brit.......
>
> These brits liberated you lot from the Krauts and should be blamed
> for that. *You* lot OTOH have been the pariahs of the world for
> thousands of years and with just cause.
Actually, the brits didn't do much more than hide in their homes with the
lights off awaiting the blitzkrieg. The real heroes of that war are the
Americans that saved the EU ass.
>
>
>> Are you saying that the original ebonics are garnished from Jewish
>> authored songs?
>
> Ask Al Jolson.
Why, did he bust a cap in someone's ass?
>
>> I knew we controlled the black man,
>
> Yes, one cannot fail to notice that all the liquor stores in black
> neighbourhoods are jew owned. Not that the jew hangs around after the
> sun goes down - too dangerous.
>
But we get paid. That's why your kind will never survive. You are not
economically feasible.
> You are a moron.
Sorry Charlie, remarks from a half wit are not take seriously.
L Alpert
> news:<jsxgc.155128$gA5.1842666@attbi_s03>...
>
>>> You are a moron. The sex pistols were awful. As is all pop and rock.
>>
>> I can see your formal education has failed to open you mind.
>
> You are a moron with no culture.
Wrong, you are the one that cannot accept other cultures that are different
from your own. It seems the moron label is yours, my whiney friend.
>
>>
>>> Classical music is the culture of the decent man. Pop is the culture
>>> of the ignorant.
>>
>> Only for those that are of petulantly adolescent minds
>
> You are a moron with no culture.
Wrong, you are the one that cannot accept other cultures that are different
from your own. It seems the moron label is yours, my whiney friend.
>
>> Well, there has not been a good replacement for the Beatles in 35
>> years, so you may at least have fallen over a point.
>
> You are a moron with no culture.
Wrong, you are the one that cannot accept other cultures that are different
from your own. It seems the moron label is yours, my whiney friend.
>
>>> You speak of your own race.
>>
>> My race is American...
>
> Moron - American is a nationality, not a race.
Exactly, as being a Jew is a religion, not a race. Gotcha, dummy.
>
>>
>>> Jews invented self-love, which they call being god's chosen.
>>
>> And it seems you practice the opposite of that, which would be self
>> loathing.
>
> No, I am not 100% impressed with my own abilities, even I have
> self-doubt, but what doubts I have do not cause me to hate.
>
Sure they do. It permeates from your on line persona (what little there is
of it). You hate things that are different from yourself, as you do not
take the time to understand them.
>>
>>> It is of course, highly childish. They only good
>>> you can find in the world is in England, it is found nowhere else.
>>
>> Good? You are just one Tsunami away from being gone. You guys
>> couldn't even take on your own colonies.
>
> We have under 10% foreigners within our midst. In America the figure
> is more like 35%. America is demographically less stable and so more
> likely to break up by civil war. We are far more stable than Israel
> with its second rate economy.
Sorry Bud, this country is built on immigration. Break up by civil war?
Nope, don't think so, as long as we have idiots that give us something to
centralize our efforts.
>
>>> I bet that your father and mother whined too.
>>
>> You will need to come up with your own ideas. I already used the
>> whining one. But thanks for the flattery.
>
> True, your lot invented self-pity and self-induldgence. Pat yourself
> on the back twice again.
Still doesn't work for you.
>
>>> About how they survived the holocaust no doubt. The easiest way
>>> to survive a holocaust is never to have been involved I find.
>>
>> I see how you twist muzak into perpetuating lies. So typical it's
>> boring. Such is the rant of the commoner.
>
> I wouldn't consider JS Bach muzak, nor Mozart, Beethoven, Wagner. Not
> one of my four favourite composers deserves that epithet. You are
> truly stupid to describe them in this way. I triumph of the Jewish
> moron. Pat yourself again.
Now where have I disparaged anyone other than you? What makes you think I
was describing them? You may want to drop the muzak appreciation classes and
take some reading comprehension. It will do you a world of good.
>
>>> Not true, you care so much you want to invade their countries and
>>> take over their media and their political systems.
>>
>> It was no invasion, it was a cold, calculated event. It's not my
>> fault people like you have no idea how to capitalize on an
>> opportunity. No wonder you are unpublished......we must be holding
>> you back..right?
>
> Event? No it was decades of fraud, theft, lies, hate and cultural
> subversion.
Well, if that's the case, fault those that allowed it to happen. And you are
the fruit of their loins. It seems you all are just, well, commoners.
>You capitalized by robbing, from the ogliarchs to petty
> gangsterism, you achieve through repeated acts of evil. Jewish power
> has come by Jewish corruption.
Oy vey, such blanket comments from the typical neo-nazi propaganda. Let's
get it right one more time....it was your stupid ass people that allowed us
to do all of these supposed things while we were and still are such a small
percentage of the population. If we could accomplish all of this despite
all of the odds being against us, well, you deserve it. Your people were
asleep at the switch, and were driven by their own greed. So don't give me
the morality bullshit. Your kind would sell their mother for a few pounds
sterling. As a matter of fact, they did just that.
>
>> No need showing me. American and Jew, the best possible combination
>> on the planet. It is indeed an envious position. No wonder you
>> whine so much. What ever has not went well in your life is either
>> mine fault, or the fault of others like me. You are such a great
>> victim, already.
>
> You, and the people like you, are responsible for the imbecility of
> jazz, rap and rock. You have no culture, as you admit yourself with
> your moronic admiration of the Beatles and the Sex Pistols.
>
Creativity can only be truly appreciated by the liberated mind. You are
currently blind.
BTW: I only mentioned that the sex pistols were OK, I never mentioned I
admired them, but they have sold more muzak than you have......
> Not once in the entire of human history has a Jewish supremacist
> written so much as a sentence of literature. There is no such thing as
> Jewish poetry. It is a contradiction in terms.
Check the list of Pulitzer prize winners.....after that, check the Nobel
winners roles.....it seems you are your own worst contradiction.
TonyaK9
"The Abstraction of Justice" <vigilante...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in
message news:d37c79d.04041...@posting.google.com...
Oh, Obfuscation of Justice, but I DO love you: you are my favorite clown on
Usenet!
I cannot wait to read your next post - to start laughing.
However, you must understand - I do not want YOUR love, I don't need it.
We are self-sufficient people, we take you with all your hatred, with all
your derogatory rants, with your ridiculous pride of a small-time clerk
whose only claim to fame is that he "belongs to a race." We appreciate free
entertainment you provide, and we ask not for your love.
Got it?
Keep posting.
TK9
zzzzara
> "L Alpert" <alp...@xxcomcast.net> wrote in message news:<jsxgc.155128$gA5.1842666@attbi_s03>...
>
> > > You are a moron. The sex pistols were awful. As is all pop and rock.
> >
> > I can see your formal education has failed to open you mind.
>
> You are a moron with no culture.
What on earth is your culture? You seem to hate everything the last
hundred years of Western culture has to offer.
Susan Cohen
> BOEDICIA wrote:
> >> Subject: Re: Muppets promoting Zionism
> >> From: "L Alpert" alp...@xxcomcast.net
> >> Date: 4/17/04 7:52 AM Pacific Daylight Time
> >> Message-id: <owbgc.2975$hw5.3478@attbi_s53>
> >
> >> The typical brit is whiney, snobbish and ill mannered.
> >
> > The typical yid is a commie traitor and a foul mouthed "comic".
Not that the resident airhead can prove, of course.
The
> > typical yid
> > pursues wealth to the exclusion of everything else
I see - Jews are both communists & capitalists.
& these bigots wonder why they get called stupid, & offended when it is
pointed out that they lie.
and has no
> > difficulty throwing farmers off their land after they have gained
> > control of the mortgage.
Not that the resident airhead can prove, of course.
> > The typical yid is also very ugly
Not that the resident airhead can prove, of course.
and hates
> > the white race especially the hated Anglo-Saxon. If the moron Irv
> > Rubin were still around he would assure you that -
>
> We don't hate those we subjugate.....we, of course, love them.
>
> >
> > "It's all the fault of the Anglo-Saxons".
> >
> > The typical yid is also a usurer,
But also a communist - don't ferget that!
G-d, what a total moron this airhead is!!
> > if you don't believe that look at
> > what the interest is on your credit cards
Oh, yeah - that's proof.
Look at your credit cards because there's a Jew on them???
> > and during The Middle Ages
when bigots like this airhead confined Jews to leanding money
> > this accursed race
And the lies just keep slowing
> > was charging the European peasants 800% interest
> > on their loans.
Not that the resident airhead can prove, of course.
> > No wonder they were kicked out of England
No wonder we were invited into England before all this - to stimulate the
economy.
> > - twice.
And another lie.
>
> And now we own so much. It is good to have learned so much in those early
> years. We have perfected our economic grip as we only now start to apply
> leverage to it.
>
> Get used to it. We will not be denied. The world is ours for the taking.
>
> >
> >> It seems your professional opinion is quite blinded by hatred and
> >> your studies have been wasted. You have a double whammy, goy and
> >> brit.......
> >
> > These brits liberated you lot from the Krauts and should be blamed
> > for that. *You* lot OTOH have been the pariahs of the world for
> > thousands of years and with just cause.
>
> Actually, the brits didn't do much more than hide in their homes with the
> lights off awaiting the blitzkrieg.
Not exactly, but it wasn't as she says, either.
The real heroes of that war are the
> Americans that saved the EU ass.
>
> >
> >
> >> Are you saying that the original ebonics are garnished from Jewish
> >> authored songs?
> >
> > Ask Al Jolson.
>
> Why, did he bust a cap in someone's ass?
The resident airhead is just ignoring the facts as usual.
Her precious "white race" started the entire idea of minstrel shows &
blakface numbers.
>
> >
> >> I knew we controlled the black man,
> >
> > Yes, one cannot fail to notice that all the liquor stores in black
> > neighbourhoods are jew owned.
Not that the resident airhead can prove, of course.
Not that the jew hangs around after the
> > sun goes down - too dangerous.
> >
>
> But we get paid. That's why your kind will never survive. You are not
> economically feasible.
>
> > You are a moron.
>
> Sorry Charlie, remarks from a half wit are not take seriously.
She's too much of an airhead to realize this.
Susan
>
>
zzzzara
don't expect our resident racists to reply. Chances are they haven't
read or seen it, indeed "should read" suggests they don't even know
it's a play.
The Abstraction of Justice
> Wrong, you are the one that cannot accept other cultures that are different
> from your own. It seems the moron label is yours, my whiney friend.
> Wrong, you are the one that cannot accept other cultures that are different
> from your own. It seems the moron label is yours, my whiney friend.
> Wrong, you are the one that cannot accept other cultures that are different
> from your own. It seems the moron label is yours, my whiney friend.
I accept other cultures as degenerate and decadent. Thrice times
thrice.
Moron, Moron, Moron.
> > Moron - American is a nationality, not a race.
>
> Exactly, as being a Jew is a religion, not a race. Gotcha, dummy.
A religion that promotes supremacy amongst the big hooked-nose brown
eyed people of the world?
> Sure they do. It permeates from your on line persona (what little there is
> of it). You hate things that are different from yourself, as you do not
> take the time to understand them.
It is precisely that I understand them and their motives that I hate
them. When I started out in life I knew little of the Jew, and found
Jew jokes to be offensive to an inoffensive people. Then I studied the
Way of the Jew and found it leads straight to hell. So you see to
understand the Jew is to hate their supremacists.
> Sorry Bud, this country is built on immigration. Break up by civil war?
> Nope, don't think so, as long as we have idiots that give us something to
> centralize our efforts.
My country is built on bricks. Who gave you this funny idea about
immigration? That sounds like a Jew-lesson taught in Goyim-school.
> > True, your lot invented self-pity and self-induldgence. Pat yourself
> > on the back twice again.
>
> Still doesn't work for you.
That is why I resort to insouciance and honesty.
> Now where have I disparaged anyone other than you? What makes you think I
> was describing them?
You said that Jews don't give a shit about any other race. That is
fairly disparaging. I would call it a dismissive generalization.
> You may want to drop the muzak appreciation classes and
> take some reading comprehension. It will do you a world of good.
How much Beethoven have you listened to?
> >You capitalized by robbing, from the ogliarchs to petty
> > gangsterism, you achieve through repeated acts of evil. Jewish power
> > has come by Jewish corruption.
>
> Oy vey, such blanket comments from the typical neo-nazi propaganda. Let's
> get it right one more time....it was your stupid ass people that allowed us
> to do all of these supposed things while we were and still are such a small
> percentage of the population. If we could accomplish all of this despite
> all of the odds being against us, well, you deserve it. Your people were
> asleep at the switch, and were driven by their own greed. So don't give me
> the morality bullshit. Your kind would sell their mother for a few pounds
> sterling. As a matter of fact, they did just that.
This is a gangster justifiying gangsterism. 'If dose goy diz abroad,
dis own fault we in da Jew 'hood Jew(1) dair goods.' What is your
origin? The russian mafia? Well gangster, carrying on a bragging. I
just *love* to listen to Jewish gangsters boast of their crimes.
Footnote 1 - Jew here is slang for rob or burgle.
> Creativity can only be truly appreciated by the liberated mind. You are
> currently blind.
Gangsters have no creativity, I see that.
> BTW: I only mentioned that the sex pistols were OK, I never mentioned I
> admired them, but they have sold more muzak than you have......
Typical for a gangster to admire punk anarchists. That reminds me that
Jews were behind those anarchist groups, bombing men, women and
children.
> > Not once in the entire of human history has a Jewish supremacist
> > written so much as a sentence of literature. There is no such thing as
> > Jewish poetry. It is a contradiction in terms.
>
> Check the list of Pulitzer prize winners.....after that, check the Nobel
> winners roles.....it seems you are your own worst contradiction.
I would rather check a sentence of Jewish prose than a list of Jew
names selected by a Jew committee. There is no escape from the
qualities of a verse. Perhaps you could paste a particularly credited
passage so we, the readers, can judge for ourselves.
The Abstraction of Justice
Funny how you are not offended by LAberts brag to subjugate humanity.
You show your colours Susan. White, Yellow, Brown, Pink & Red.
Jim F.
"zzzzara" <zzz...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:a75dbe9c.04041...@posting.google.com...
But our resident racists insist that they are men of culture. That, indeed,
they are the last remaining defenders of Western civilization. So one
would expect them to have some well thought-out commentary on
Marlowe or Shakespeare.
Jim F.
TonyaK9
Solzhenitsyn has coined a Russian word "obrazovanschina," which does not
have an adequate equivalent in English, to denote the Soviet-style "new
intelligentsia" - those people who got formal education in Soviet
universities and were able to throw a few names and notions around, but
lacked any true cultural depth, understanding of history or appreciation for
arts.
Abstraction of Justice seems to provide a perfect proof that this phenomenon
is not unique for the Soviet period half-educated comrades, but is endemic
in Western societies as well, due to mass production of narrow-minded
"professionals."
TK9
TonyaK9
"The Abstraction of Justice" <vigilante...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in
message news:d37c79d.04041...@posting.google.com...
>
> thrice.
Does that include the culture brought to the shores of England by the Norman
conquerors?
Does an average Brit's, say, a football aficionado's, culture stand above
that of, say, B. Disraeli's?
Do they call folks like yourself a "commoner" in your country?
TK9
TonyaK9
"The Abstraction of Justice" <vigilante...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in
message news:d37c79d.04041...@posting.google.com...
Judging by your propensity to separate colors from whites tells us you're in
the laundry business...
;)))
TK9
meat n potatoes
vigilante...@yahoo.co.uk (The Abstraction of Justice) wrote in message news:<d37c79d.04041...@posting.google.com>...
> zzz...@my-deja.com (zzzzara) wrote:
>
> > By the way, do you still think the Muppets are a Zionist plot?
>
> Sesame street certainly was with its multicultural/Jew cast promoting
> muliculturalism 'neigbourhoods.' Compare races of presenters to the
> general public - conclusion - almost no whites. Look at its Directors
> and Producers - Jews.
>
> The muppets was Sesame street for a larger audience. Each week it
> would have a Jew celebrity such as Barbara Streisand or Woody Allen
> singing their Jewish songs.
>
> Here it is promoting a Jew as a Doctor of Chemistry:
>
> http://www.muppets.com/honeydew/honeydew.htm (Honey D(J)ew).
>
> Obviously he is a fat faced bald big nosed Jew with a German accent,
> just like Einstein.
>
> Here are the two mean white anglo saxon types:
>
> http://www.muppets.com/swaldorf/swaldorf.htm
>
> Here it promotes Afro-American tribal costume.
>
> http://www.muppets.com/profiles/profiles.htm
>
> Here is Gonzo, obviously a big nose little Jewboy who wants to burden
> you with his daily tale of woe.
>
> http://www.muppets.com/gonzo/gonzo.htm
>
> Now for fozzie, the lovable Italian Jew with the Bronx/Brooklyn
> accent. He is obviously a Jewish standup commedian, a terrible and
> tragic failure. Oh vey!
>
> http://www.muppets.com/fozzie/fozzie.htm
>
> Now here is the blond haired, blue eyed White Anglo Saxon Pig. And it
> is, yes you guessed it, miss Piggy, of unclean meat. She thinks she is
> attractive, but we all know that she is a Pig and so ain't no Jew!
>
> http://www.muppets.com/piggy/piggy.htm
sara
"zzzzara" <zzz...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:a75dbe9c.04041...@posting.google.com...
BOEDICIA
>Date: 4/19/04 7:50 AM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: <d37c79d.04041...@posting.google.com>
She also has never had an original thought in her life. "Resident airhead" is
my description of her. I do wish she would
not ape others. Her other favourite word is "liar" when she can find nothing
else to respond to. My statement that the jew charged interest rate of 800% to
the English in The Middle Ages is correct.
She is not a jew, she is Oirish and thick as ten planks.
Jim F.
I suspect that the term they use is a bit less polite than that.
Jim F.
>
> TK9
>
>
>
Jim F.
In other words it's a phenomenon that seems to be characteristic of any
society experiencing the rapid growth of mass higher education.
(The Soviets experienced that under Stalin and his successors, the
US, after WW II, while in Great Britain, I believe its only been
in the last fifteen or twenty years that they began to send a large
proportion of their youth to university).
Jim F.
>
> TK9
>
>
The Abstraction of Justice
>
> don't expect our resident racists to reply. Chances are they haven't
> read or seen it, indeed "should read" suggests they don't even know
Of course I know its a play idiot. I have never seen it, it's not as
if its put on every month in the local playhouse. You do know that it
is possible to read plays I trust? Plays tend to be written down with
text such as this:
ZZZARA: Look Goyim, I admit I lied about the meaning of Goyim, Truce?
THE ABSTRACTION: No chance Jew, you are a bloody lying bigot, go home
to Israel.
You see, that could be construed as a play that can both be performed
and read. Doesn't take much intelligence eh? Now go home to Israel.
The Abstraction of Justice
> "The Abstraction of Justice" <vigilante...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in
> message news:d37c79d.04041...@posting.google.com...
> >
> > I accept other cultures as degenerate and decadent. Thrice times
> > thrice.
>
> Does that include the culture brought to the shores of England by the Norman
> conquerors?
I don't consider their culture culture. Perhaps you could be more
specific. I can't recall any major literature, philosophy, science,
work of art or other concetre construct from Norman hands. Perhaps you
would care to enlighten me.
By the time Normans had an effect on us they had turned native anyway.
> Does an average Brit's, say, a football aficionado's, culture stand above
> that of, say, B. Disraeli's?
Name one of our Prime Ministers and golly, it's the one who was a Jew.
How should I rate this Jew's culture? I guess everything Jewish could
be considered anticulture, while the footballs fan's affection is a
reaction to anticulture. It's a form of politically acceptable
patriotism. So yes, the football fan stands aloft. He is the bearer of
morale. Jews are the bearer of usery, decadence and then collapse, and
when the mighty fall the Jews are still there in the ruins scraping
for silver.
> Do they call folks like yourself a "commoner" in your country?
The Jews call me Goyim. Plutocrats call me crass, or wrong thinking,
or a fascist or some such. Good people call me wise & noble. The
perceptive think of me as the surrepticious auspice, the figure that
can disturb with a glance of woe or inspire with the peepiest pout.
The Abstraction of Justice
White of surrender, Yellow of cowardice, Brown of Ebonic manipulation,
Pink of Homosexuality and Red for Bolshevism.
L Alpert
His mind is still in the 16th century. Maybe he should be tied up and
forced to listen to the sex pistols.
L Alpert
Bugger off, dweeb. Go listen to some sex pistols.
L Alpert
And Jew for the master of all.
L Alpert
Bugger off, dweeb.
TonyaK9
To some degree. The British mass-produced professionals are often as
culturally deprived as their Soviet counterparts.
But the Soviet crop of "obrazovanschina" was grown by political design: the
State required homogeneity of the members of the "new intelligentsia" and
severely punished any individual attempt to master in depth any
cultural/historic heritage.
First of all, history was quite a fluid thing in that socialist paradise -
what was right today was a deadly thing to repeat or even remember tomorrow.
Secondly, there have always been "acceptable" figures in the world of art,
and then there were the enemies.
A few examples: Howard Fast was a good guy (for obvious reasons.) So was
Thomas Mann - for his stand against the Nazis. Sometimes, the reasons were
quite ridiculous: Theodor Dreiser was welcome simply as the author of the
"American Tragedy." Pablo Picasso - for drawing the dove as a symbol of
peace (re: Soviet never-ending "peace campaign," directed against the West
attempts to build up its defenses.)
The enemies were as easy to find. Wagner's music was banned until the end of
Brezhnev's era - too much connection with the Nazism, at the same time Karl
Marx's anti-Semitic drivel have never been published either (never mind
Soviet own home-grown anti-Semitic campaigns!) The radio/TV could not play
Mahler's music either - the Jew who committed yet another crime by turning
to become a Catholic (Catholics' allegiances were West of the border, an
idea terrifying for a good Soviet citizen...)
In general, the word "Jew" was not supposed to be mentioned in the country -
one would never hear it either in a radio program or on TV- because
Socialism supposedly has resolved all problems connected to the "national
questions", the Jewish question did not officially exist, and neither
existed such peoples as Chechens, Ingushes, Volga-region Germans, etc... Any
books of religious philosophers were banned.
People who have grown on this artificially selected cultural feed came out
with seriously damaged thinking, and even after having moved to the West,
many of them suffer from these artificially imposed cultural deficiencies.
Unlike the poor Soviet half-ass intellectuals, the British ones have only
themselves to blame for not joining the world of culture. But then again -
so little time is left after all football games!
TK9
L Alpert
> news:<tHGgc.23889$0b4.30229@attbi_s51>...
>
>> Wrong, you are the one that cannot accept other cultures that are
>> different from your own. It seems the moron label is yours, my
>> whiney friend.
>
>> Wrong, you are the one that cannot accept other cultures that are
>> different from your own. It seems the moron label is yours, my
>> whiney friend.
>
>> Wrong, you are the one that cannot accept other cultures that are
>> different from your own. It seems the moron label is yours, my
>> whiney friend.
>
> I accept other cultures as degenerate and decadent. Thrice times
> thrice.
>
> Moron, Moron, Moron.
Jeez, jump up and down while you do that, it may be a tad bit more
convincing, and a good bit more mature of a response.
>
>>> Moron - American is a nationality, not a race.
>>
>> Exactly, as being a Jew is a religion, not a race. Gotcha, dummy.
>
> A religion that promotes supremacy amongst the big hooked-nose brown
> eyed people of the world?
No, only I do that, with good reason. Just look at you.
>
>
>> Sure they do. It permeates from your on line persona (what little
>> there is of it). You hate things that are different from yourself,
>> as you do not take the time to understand them.
>
> It is precisely that I understand them and their motives that I hate
> them. When I started out in life I knew little of the Jew, and found
> Jew jokes to be offensive to an inoffensive people. Then I studied the
> Way of the Jew and found it leads straight to hell. So you see to
> understand the Jew is to hate their supremacists.
Only because they are so damned stupid. They call themselves supremacists
when we are the superior ones. Such a misinformed bunch.....
>
>> Sorry Bud, this country is built on immigration. Break up by civil
>> war? Nope, don't think so, as long as we have idiots that give us
>> something to centralize our efforts.
>
> My country is built on bricks. Who gave you this funny idea about
> immigration? That sounds like a Jew-lesson taught in Goyim-school.
Bricks? Not likely, more like the blood and sweat of Americans to save your
sorry asses when the chips are down.
>
>>> True, your lot invented self-pity and self-induldgence. Pat yourself
>>> on the back twice again.
>>
>> Still doesn't work for you.
>
> That is why I resort to insouciance and honesty.
>
It's more like so ridiculous it's obscene....
>> Now where have I disparaged anyone other than you? What makes you
>> think I was describing them?
>
> You said that Jews don't give a shit about any other race. That is
> fairly disparaging. I would call it a dismissive generalization.
Not caring is not the same as disparaging. Look it up, and you will see.
>
>> You may want to drop the muzak appreciation classes and
>> take some reading comprehension. It will do you a world of good.
>
> How much Beethoven have you listened to?
Enough to know it, enough to realize that there are other forms of art in
the world. What, you think Sir Ludwig thought he was the only one in the
world?
>
>>> You capitalized by robbing, from the ogliarchs to petty
>>> gangsterism, you achieve through repeated acts of evil. Jewish power
>>> has come by Jewish corruption.
>>
>> Oy vey, such blanket comments from the typical neo-nazi propaganda.
>> Let's get it right one more time....it was your stupid ass people
>> that allowed us to do all of these supposed things while we were and
>> still are such a small percentage of the population. If we could
>> accomplish all of this despite all of the odds being against us,
>> well, you deserve it. Your people were asleep at the switch, and
>> were driven by their own greed. So don't give me the morality
>> bullshit. Your kind would sell their mother for a few pounds
>> sterling. As a matter of fact, they did just that.
>
> This is a gangster justifiying gangsterism. 'If dose goy diz abroad,
> dis own fault we in da Jew 'hood Jew(1) dair goods.' What is your
> origin? The russian mafia? Well gangster, carrying on a bragging. I
> just *love* to listen to Jewish gangsters boast of their crimes.
>
Nah, you gave it to us. Your kind is so fucking stupid, you didn't deserve
any of it. Sit back, and let us take care of everything. That is what you
are accustomed to anyway.
> Footnote 1 - Jew here is slang for rob or burgle.
The goyim is slang for meathead (non-kosher, of course).
>
>> Creativity can only be truly appreciated by the liberated mind. You
>> are currently blind.
>
> Gangsters have no creativity, I see that.
I don't mind being underestimated. How else can such a small percentage of
the overall population control so much? It seems the majority sucks.
>
>> BTW: I only mentioned that the sex pistols were OK, I never
>> mentioned I admired them, but they have sold more muzak than you
>> have......
>
> Typical for a gangster to admire punk anarchists. That reminds me that
> Jews were behind those anarchist groups, bombing men, women and
> children.
You sure are out there. Your mother have any kids that lived?
>
>>> Not once in the entire of human history has a Jewish supremacist
>>> written so much as a sentence of literature. There is no such thing
>>> as Jewish poetry. It is a contradiction in terms.
>>
>> Check the list of Pulitzer prize winners.....after that, check the
>> Nobel winners roles.....it seems you are your own worst
>> contradiction.
>
> I would rather check a sentence of Jewish prose than a list of Jew
> names selected by a Jew committee.
Who else would be able to recognize superior work and art? All you guys
would do is select a dead musician from hundreds of years ago. Only
progressive minds move forward. You are stuck in an eternal quagmire.
>There is no escape from the
> qualities of a verse. Perhaps you could paste a particularly credited
> passage so we, the readers, can judge for ourselves.
You could also look one up if you so desired. It would be a first for you
to look up some facts.
AMF
L Alpert
> news:<vXSgc.402$eZ...@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>...
>> "The Abstraction of Justice" <vigilante...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote
>> in message news:d37c79d.04041...@posting.google.com...
>>>
>>> I accept other cultures as degenerate and decadent. Thrice times
>>> thrice.
>>
>> Does that include the culture brought to the shores of England by
>> the Norman conquerors?
>
> I don't consider their culture culture.
Who really gives a shit what you lame ass considers? As if anyone believes
there is any relevant thought happening in what you consider your mind(less)
drivel.
TonyaK9
"The Abstraction of Justice" <vigilante...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in
message news:d37c79d.04041...@posting.google.com...
news:<a75dbe9c.04041...@posting.google.com>...
> >
> > don't expect our resident racists to reply. Chances are they haven't
> > read or seen it, indeed "should read" suggests they don't even know
> > it's a play, indeed "should read" suggests they don't even know it's a
play.
>
>
> Of course I know its a play idiot. I have never seen it, it's not as
> if its put on every month in the local playhouse. You do know that it
> is possible to read plays I trust? Plays tend to be written down with
> text such as this:
>
> ZZZARA: Look Goyim, I admit I lied about the meaning of Goyim, Truce?
>
> THE ABSTRACTION: No chance Jew, you are a bloody lying bigot, go home
> to Israel.
Oh well, Shakespeare you ain't...
Keep posting, clown - you've been nominated for the King of Fools of Usenet!
TK9
TonyaK9
OK, since goyim is a plural, we do not cal you goyim.
But we can call you The Peepiest Pout instead!
Keep posting clown.
I am saving all the precious pearls of comedy that you throw at us free of
charge, and who knows, maybe one day I'll write a good comedy about a
simpleton who thought of himself as a "politically acceptable patriot" (and
yes, wouldn't it feel right to make money at your expense, how'bout that,
Obfuscation of Justice!)
TK9
TonyaK9
"The Abstraction of Justice" <vigilante...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in
message news:d37c79d.04041...@posting.google.com...
> "TonyaK9" <Ton...@excite.com> wrote in message
news:<41Tgc.416$eZ5...@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>...
> > "The Abstraction of Justice" <vigilante...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in
> > message news:d37c79d.04041...@posting.google.com...
> > > "Susan Cohen" <fla...@verizon.net> wrote in message
> > news:<bvNgc.8837$Aq....@nwrddc03.gnilink.net>...
> > >
> > > Funny how you are not offended by LAberts brag to subjugate humanity.
> > > You show your colours Susan. White, Yellow, Brown, Pink & Red.
> >
> > Judging by your propensity to separate colors from whites tells us
you're in
> > the laundry business...
> > ;)))
> > TK9
>
> White of surrender, Yellow of cowardice, Brown of Ebonic manipulation,
> Pink of Homosexuality and Red for Bolshevism.
Hope your laundry can compete with the Pakistanis' - but that should explain
to all why you're so destitute and angry...
TK9
Susan Cohen
> The Abstraction of Justice wrote:
> > "Susan Cohen" <fla...@verizon.net> wrote in message
> > news:<bvNgc.8837$Aq....@nwrddc03.gnilink.net>...
> >
> > Funny how you are not offended by LAberts brag to subjugate humanity.
Funny how someone who pretends to be smart can't recognize sarcasm when he
sees it.
> > You show your colours Susan. White, Yellow, Brown, Pink & Red.
He shows his brainlesses - dumb & getting dumber all the time.
>
> Bugger off, dweeb. Go listen to some sex pistols.
>
Or just get a flippin' clue.
Susan
Susan Cohen
> The Abstraction of Justice wrote:
>
> >
> > White of surrender, Yellow of cowardice, Brown of Ebonic manipulation,
> > Pink of Homosexuality
And what a surprise that he's a gay-basher, too. Not.
and Red for Bolshevism.
>
> And Jew for the master of all.
Certainly his master - my dead cat's smart enough to be his master!
Susan
The Abstraction of Justice
> Enough to know it, enough to realize that there are other forms of art in
> the world. What, you think Sir Ludwig thought he was the only one in the
> world?
You moron. Ludwig never received a Knighthood. And you call yourself a
supremacist. I bet you haven't so much as sat through one movement of
his shortest sonatas.
The Abstraction of Justice
> Certainly his master - my dead cat's smart enough to be his master!
>
> Susan
How did your cat die? Blood sacrifice?
Jim F.
Well in that case, it would seem that the US and UK have managed
to achieve almost the same results with a minimum of overt
coercion, since the sorts of market incentives that exist
in the West seem to reward people for becoming narrow
specialists rather than broadly educated people who have
mastered in depth various aspects of their cultural/historic
heritage. The Frankfurters (i.e. Adorno, Marcuse,
Horkheimer) noted this decades ago, although I am
not sure they had very compelling explanations of this
phenomenon, though.
>
> First of all, history was quite a fluid thing in that socialist paradise -
> what was right today was a deadly thing to repeat or even remember
tomorrow.
> Secondly, there have always been "acceptable" figures in the world of art,
> and then there were the enemies.
>
> A few examples: Howard Fast was a good guy (for obvious reasons.) So was
> Thomas Mann - for his stand against the Nazis. Sometimes, the reasons were
> quite ridiculous: Theodor Dreiser was welcome simply as the author of the
> "American Tragedy." Pablo Picasso - for drawing the dove as a symbol of
> peace (re: Soviet never-ending "peace campaign," directed against the West
> attempts to build up its defenses.)
Actually, in the case of Picasso, I don't think they ever knew what to
do with him. On the one hand, his politics were impeccably correct
from their standpoint since he was a loyal Communist. On the
other hand, his artistic work was not what they would have considered
to be esthetically correct. In the Soviet Union, their native
Cubo-Futurist movement which had flourished during the
1920s (most of Russia's abstract artists supported the
Bolsheviks) was banned under Stalin, and they were not much
more tolerant of Western modern art either.
>
> The enemies were as easy to find. Wagner's music was banned until the end
of
> Brezhnev's era - too much connection with the Nazism, at the same time
Karl
> Marx's anti-Semitic drivel have never been published either (never mind
> Soviet own home-grown anti-Semitic campaigns!) The radio/TV could not play
> Mahler's music either - the Jew who committed yet another crime by turning
> to become a Catholic (Catholics' allegiances were West of the border, an
> idea terrifying for a good Soviet citizen...)
>
> In general, the word "Jew" was not supposed to be mentioned in the
country -
> one would never hear it either in a radio program or on TV- because
> Socialism supposedly has resolved all problems connected to the "national
> questions", the Jewish question did not officially exist, and neither
> existed such peoples as Chechens, Ingushes, Volga-region Germans, etc...
Any
> books of religious philosophers were banned.
Well that's not quite true. Those (including that of being Jewish) were all
recognized national designations in the Soviet Union, and one's nationality
or ethnicity was usually stamped on one's identification papers. And
Stalin, at even one point, went so far as to attempt to create a
"Jewish homeland" - the Jewish Autonomous Oblast - along the
Chinese border. Apparently, Stalin thought this could serve as
an alternative to Zionism, although in practice, it never drew more
than a few thousand Jews. This scheme fitted in with Stalin's theory on the
National Question, which held that a group could only be a nation if they
had a territory. Since there was no Jewish territory, per se, the Jews were
not classified as a nation and so did not have national rights. Jewish
Communists
therefore argued that the way to solve this ideological dilemma was by
creating a Jewish territory within the Soviet Union which would enable
Jews to attain recognition as a legitimate nation. However, as I
already said, this scheme did not get all that many takers.
TonyaK9
>
> "TonyaK9" <Ton...@excite.com> wrote in message
> news:%g%gc.3084$e4....@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> > as culturally deprived as their Soviet counterparts.
> > But the Soviet crop of "obrazovanschina" was grown by political
> > design: the State required homogeneity of the members of the "new
> > intelligentsia" and severely punished any individual attempt to master
> > in depth any cultural/historic heritage.
>
> Well in that case, it would seem that the US and UK have managed
> to achieve almost the same results with a minimum of overt
> coercion, since the sorts of market incentives that exist
> in the West seem to reward people for becoming narrow
> specialists rather than broadly educated people who have
> mastered in depth various aspects of their cultural/historic
> heritage. The Frankfurters (i.e. Adorno, Marcuse,
> Horkheimer) noted this decades ago, although I am
> not sure they had very compelling explanations of this
> phenomenon, though.
We should always duely distinguish between the coersion of a concentration
camp and monetary rewards society agrees to pay to its professionals.
Results might be similar in a societal domain, but for each particular
individual the difference is hard to overestimate.
After all - we're talking about ability of individuals to pursue their
interests without sacrifising their own lives and the lives of their
families!
> > First of all, history was quite a fluid thing in that socialist
paradise -
> > what was right today was a deadly thing to repeat or even remember
> > tomorrow.
> > Secondly, there have always been "acceptable" figures in the world
> > of art, and then there were the enemies.
> >
> > A few examples: Howard Fast was a good guy (for obvious reasons.) So was
> > Thomas Mann - for his stand against the Nazis. Sometimes, the reasons
were
> > quite ridiculous: Theodor Dreiser was welcome simply as the author of
the
> > "American Tragedy." Pablo Picasso - for drawing the dove as a symbol of
> > peace (re: Soviet never-ending "peace campaign," directed against the
West
> > attempts to build up its defenses.)
>
> Actually, in the case of Picasso, I don't think they ever knew what to
> do with him. On the one hand, his politics were impeccably correct
> from their standpoint since he was a loyal Communist. On the
> other hand, his artistic work was not what they would have considered
> to be esthetically correct.
Soviet ideological tastes were formed by such individuals as Zhdanov - try
to imagine an individual with the world view of Abstraction of Justice
raised to the position of the Chief Establisher of Tastes for the
Dictatorship. I had once read a tragicomical account of Zhdanov arranging a
meeting with two Russian composers in Kremlin of 1948. Zhdanov had graduated
from a 7-grade musical school and considered himself no less of a
musicologist than AOJ. So, he placed Prokofyev and Schostakovich on the
sofa, and proceeded to play to them - first Grand Valse Brilliant by Szopin,
then a piece from Tchaikovsky's albom for children called "The Seasons." The
two giants of Russian music were sitting silently through this presentation.
After Zhdanov finished his amateur rendition, he deliver a blasting lecture,
accusing both composers of writing the music "which is foreign to the tastes
of the proletariat" ( I'm sure Abstraction of Justice would agree with his
assessment!) and he finished his lecture with the words: "This is what kind
of music our workers and colchozniks and intelligentsia are expecting from
our composers. Now go and write the right music!"
Prokifyev has not written a bar of music after that encounter.
Schostakovich surrendered and joined the Communist Party ... how sad!
Picasso had been always praised as a great artist, but his works were mostly
unavailable to the Soviet public.
> In the Soviet Union, their native
> Cubo-Futurist movement which had flourished during the
> 1920s (most of Russia's abstract artists supported the
> Bolsheviks) was banned under Stalin, and they were not much
> more tolerant of Western modern art either.
Ask Abstraction of Justice about his tastes in visual art - and I guarantee
you will find amazing similarities between his tastes and the tastes
dictated by the Bolshevic ideologues. Neither it would be much different
from the Nazi's hatred toward modern art - remember the exhibition organized
by Hitler's propaganda machine before WWII - I recall it was called the
"Degenerate Art Exhibit..."
> > The enemies were as easy to find. Wagner's music was banned
> > until the end of Brezhnev's era - too much connection with the
> > Nazism, at the same time Karl Marx's anti-Semitic drivel have
> > never been published either (never mind Soviet own home-grown
> > anti-Semitic campaigns!) The radio/TV could not play Mahler's
> > music either - the Jew who committed yet another crime by turning
> > to become a Catholic (Catholics' allegiances were West of the
> > border, an idea terrifying for a good Soviet citizen...)
> >
> > In general, the word "Jew" was not supposed to be mentioned in
> > the country - one would never hear it either in a radio program or
> > on TV- because Socialism supposedly has resolved all problems
> > connected to the "national questions", the Jewish question did not
> > officially exist, and neither existed such peoples as Chechens,
> > Ingushes, Volga-region Germans, etc...
> > Any books of religious philosophers were banned.
>
> Well that's not quite true. Those (including that of being Jewish) were
all
> recognized national designations in the Soviet Union, and one's
nationality
> or ethnicity was usually stamped on one's identification papers.
- the most powerful tool of enforcing State anti-Semitism since Hitler's
Nuremberg laws!
> And Stalin, at even one point, went so far as to attempt to create a
> "Jewish homeland" - the Jewish Autonomous Oblast - along the
> Chinese border. Apparently, Stalin thought this could serve as
> an alternative to Zionism, although in practice, it never drew more
> than a few thousand Jews.
Yes. That Oblast could have served both as a national home and
simultaneously as a part of Gulag. I can see Uncle Joe smiling while
contriving this marvel of a solution for "Jewish problem..."
> This scheme fitted in with Stalin's theory on the
> National Question, which held that a group could only be a nation if they
> had a territory. Since there was no Jewish territory, per se, the Jews
were
> not classified as a nation and so did not have national rights.
> Jewish Communists therefore argued that the way to solve this
> ideological dilemma was by creating a Jewish territory within the
> Soviet Union which would enable Jews to attain recognition as a legitimate
> nation. However, as I already said, this scheme did not get all that many
> takers.
"Jewish Communists argued"??? Jim, you're missing the whole perspective on
that society. "Jewish Communists" that would "argue" anything on behalf of
Jews have never existed since Stalin exterminated Bund. When Stalin schemed
to create Birobidjan he didn't ask Jewish opinions, nor would he tolerate
any. If Stalin needed a Jew to make some statement on behalf of whatever he
wanted, he'd assign a Jew to say what was needed. Often times, when Stalin
changed his mind about one plan or another, those Jews who obidiently
repeated the proper Party line, would simply be eliminated! The Proletariat
applauded happily. And so did the selected Western intelletuals of the Left
persuasion...
sara
"TonyaK9" <Ton...@excite.com> wrote in message
news:1Tfhc.2415$eZ5...@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
The Abstraction of Justice
> > But our resident racists insist that they are men of culture. That,
> indeed,
> > they are the last remaining defenders of Western civilization. So one
> > would expect them to have some well thought-out commentary on
> > Marlowe or Shakespeare.
Yours in the culture of the chattering classes. You Jews can talk
about Marlowe all day long, but you have to leave it to Englishmen to
contribute to art.
> Solzhenitsyn has coined a Russian word "obrazovanschina," which does not
> have an adequate equivalent in English, to denote the Soviet-style "new
> intelligentsia" - those people who got formal education in Soviet
> universities and were able to throw a few names and notions around, but
> lacked any true cultural depth, understanding of history or appreciation for
> arts.
LAbert sounds like one such man, he thinks the Beatles and the Sex
Pistols are better than Beethoven's muzak.
> Abstraction of Justice seems to provide a perfect proof that this phenomenon
> is not unique for the Soviet period half-educated comrades, but is endemic
> in Western societies as well, due to mass production of narrow-minded
> "professionals."
I can write better prose and poetry than you, I have deeper
understanding of maths, physics and philosophy. I can compose melodies
and other musical structures. So in terms of art, philosophy and
science I am your superior. In terms of politics I have nothing on
your scheming and your disembling - only people who regularly attend
the synagogue could match your skills. All I know is how to be
righteous, honest and confrontational with Jewish supremacists.
The Abstraction of Justice
> Well in that case, it would seem that the US and UK have managed
> to achieve almost the same results with a minimum of overt
> coercion, since the sorts of market incentives that exist
> in the West seem to reward people for becoming narrow
> specialists rather than broadly educated people who have
> mastered in depth various aspects of their cultural/historic
> heritage. The Frankfurters (i.e. Adorno, Marcuse,
> Horkheimer) noted this decades ago, although I am
> not sure they had very compelling explanations of this
> phenomenon, though.
What have you mastered? What have you contributed to civilization? Did
you just study so you could brag about what you know?
> Actually, in the case of Picasso, I don't think they ever knew what to
> do with him. On the one hand, his politics were impeccably correct
> from their standpoint since he was a loyal Communist. On the
> other hand, his artistic work was not what they would have considered
> to be esthetically correct. In the Soviet Union, their native
> Cubo-Futurist movement which had flourished during the
> 1920s (most of Russia's abstract artists supported the
> Bolsheviks) was banned under Stalin, and they were not much
> more tolerant of Western modern art either.
If you can't see the utter triviality of painting pigeons and
square-faced women you are thick as pig shit Jew.
> Well that's not quite true. Those (including that of being Jewish) were all
> recognized national designations in the Soviet Union, and one's nationality
> or ethnicity was usually stamped on one's identification papers. And
> Stalin, at even one point, went so far as to attempt to create a
> "Jewish homeland" - the Jewish Autonomous Oblast - along the
> Chinese border. Apparently, Stalin thought this could serve as
> an alternative to Zionism, although in practice, it never drew more
> than a few thousand Jews. This scheme fitted in with Stalin's theory on the
> National Question, which held that a group could only be a nation if they
> had a territory. Since there was no Jewish territory, per se, the Jews were
> not classified as a nation and so did not have national rights. Jewish
> Communists
> therefore argued that the way to solve this ideological dilemma was by
> creating a Jewish territory within the Soviet Union which would enable
> Jews to attain recognition as a legitimate nation. However, as I
> already said, this scheme did not get all that many takers.
I wonder if Jews promoted separate nationhood for the Tartars? Nah, I
doubt it, only for themselves, the scum sucking Jewish supremacists
twats.
> > People who have grown on this artificially selected cultural feed came out
> > with seriously damaged thinking, and even after having moved to the West,
> > many of them suffer from these artificially imposed cultural deficiencies.
> >
> > Unlike the poor Soviet half-ass intellectuals, the British ones have only
> > themselves to blame for not joining the world of culture. But then again -
> > so little time is left after all football games!
You Jews have never ever produced anything of cultural value since
Mahler. All Jewish works are tarred with self-indulgence and cultural
subterfuge. I dare you to paste one decent paragraph of Jewish prose
or poetry to prove me wrong.
L Alpert
It was a term of endearment, which, since you failed recognize it as such,
must mean LVB is not endearing to you, thus you are full of hot air.
Keep saving for that double wide, Sir Abstraction.
The Abstraction of Justice
> don't expect our resident racists to reply. Chances are they haven't
> read or seen it, indeed "should read" suggests they don't even know
> it's a play.
I doubt you have read any science, philosophy or literature in your
life. If you spend 16 hours a day watching Buffy repeats it is no
wonder you can't find the time.
L Alpert
Why, because he disagrees with you? Keep saving for that double wide, and
someday your dream will come true, Abby.....
Jim F.
>
> "Jim F." <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
> news:c63s7m$7cbko$1...@ID-155290.news.uni-berlin.de...
> >
> > "TonyaK9" <Ton...@excite.com> wrote in message
> > news:%g%gc.3084$e4....@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> > > To some degree. The British mass-produced professionals are often
> > > as culturally deprived as their Soviet counterparts.
> > > But the Soviet crop of "obrazovanschina" was grown by political
> > > design: the State required homogeneity of the members of the "new
> > > intelligentsia" and severely punished any individual attempt to master
> > > in depth any cultural/historic heritage.
> >
> > Well in that case, it would seem that the US and UK have managed
> > to achieve almost the same results with a minimum of overt
> > coercion, since the sorts of market incentives that exist
> > in the West seem to reward people for becoming narrow
> > specialists rather than broadly educated people who have
> > mastered in depth various aspects of their cultural/historic
> > heritage. The Frankfurters (i.e. Adorno, Marcuse,
> > Horkheimer) noted this decades ago, although I am
> > not sure they had very compelling explanations of this
> > phenomenon, though.
>
> We should always duely distinguish between the coersion of a concentration
> camp and monetary rewards society agrees to pay to its professionals.
> Results might be similar in a societal domain, but for each particular
> individual the difference is hard to overestimate.
Sure, but as my reference to the Frankfurters was meant to indicate,
that regardless of whether this outcome is achieved through overt
coercion or through market incentives, the formation of this stratum
has similar consequences for the larger social system. In both cases,
these folk by and large do not question or challenge in any fundamental
way the status quo. Instead, they tend to regurgiate, uncritically
the ruling ideologies. I would argue, however, that in a market
economy, more subtle forms of coercion can exist.
They couldn't condemn him because he had the right sort of politics,
but they weren't about to promote the viewing of his work in
the Soviet Union since abstract art including Cubism had been
officially condemned, so they declared him to be a great artist
but kept most of his work away from the public.
It goes without saying that they wouldn't have been allowed to argue
this position without Stalin's approval. And their whole argument
was, anyway, built on Stalin's analysis of the "national question."
(http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1913/03.htm)
Jim F.
And your contributions to science, philosophy or literature are to
be found where?
The Abstraction of Justice
Listen Jew, study some culture. I would also leave the US as soon as
possible, the Jew dregs there now drink their own medicine, as we can
see from your Jewish taste in music.
TonyaK9
>
> It goes without saying that they wouldn't have been allowed to argue
> this position without Stalin's approval. And their whole argument
> was, anyway, built on Stalin's analysis of the "national question."
> (http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1913/03.htm)
Then just mentioning that "Jewish Communists argued" anything simply
distorts reality - these people were forced to abandon their Jewishness for
the sake of Socialism, then they were ordered to read the statements
prepared by their ideological handlers, like puppets, then they were
disposed off during the next cycle of Stalin's "chistki..." Some Jewish
arguing!...
> > "Jewish Communists" that would "argue" anything on behalf of
> > Jews have never existed since Stalin exterminated Bund.
> > When Stalin schemed to create Birobidjan he didn't ask Jewish
> > opinions, nor would he tolerate any. If Stalin needed a Jew to
> > make some statement on behalf of whatever he wanted, he'd
> > assign a Jew to say what was needed.
> > Often times, when Stalin changed his mind about one plan or
> > another, those Jews who obidiently repeated the proper Party
> > line, would simply be eliminated!
> > The Proletariat applauded happily. And so did the selected
> > Western intellectuals of the Left persuasion...
I understand why you have decided not to comment on this last paragraph...
TK9
TonyaK9
> You Jews have never ever produced anything of cultural value since
> Mahler. All Jewish works are tarred with self-indulgence and cultural
> subterfuge. I dare you to paste one decent paragraph of Jewish prose
> or poetry to prove me wrong.
Let us know how fluent is your Hebrew, and we'll be happy to direct you to
some truly outstanding poetry. Is that a deal?
;-)
Written without interruption from biblical times to the present, Hebrew
poetry embodies external influences and internal traditions. The poetry of
the past, which incorporates religious and national themes, also contains
motifs of personal experience which are predominant in the poetry of today.
A break with traditional poetic expression developed during the Jewish
Enlightenment in Europe (1781-1881), when full citizenship for Jews and
secularization of Jewish life were advocated, and from the late 19th century
when Zionism, the movement calling for the restoration of Jewish national
life in the Land of Israel, began to gain momentum. The major poets to
emerge from this period, who themselves immigrated to Palestine early in the
20th century, were Haim Nahman Bialik (1873-1934) and Saul Tchernichovsky
(1875-1943).
Bialik's works, which reflect his commitment to the Jewish national
renaissance and reject the viability of Jewish life in Eastern Europe,
include both long epic poems recapitulating chapters in Jewish history as
well as pure lyrical poetry dealing with love and nature. Bialik, often
referred to as the 'national poet' or 'the poet of the Hebrew Renaissance,'
forged a new poetic idiom, free of the overwhelming biblical influence of
his predecessors, while maintaining classical structure and clarity of
expression through rich, learned but contemporary phrasing. His poems are
memorized by generations of Israeli schoolchildren.
Tchernichovsky, who wrote lyric poetry, dramatic epics, ballads and
allegories, sought to rectify the world of the Jew by injecting a spirit of
personal pride and dignity as well as a heightened awareness of nature and
beauty. His sense of language, which embodied an affinity for rabbinical
Hebrew, was different from Bialik's idiom which integrated the biblical
influence with the emerging conversational mode. Both Bialik and
Tchernichovsky represent the transition from ancient Jewish poetry to the
modern genre.
Avraham Shlonsky, Natan Alterman, Leah Goldberg, and Uri Zvi Greenberg
headed the next generation of poets, who wrote in the years which preceded
the establishment of the state and during the early years of statehood.
Shlonsky utilized a flood of images along with linguistic inventions in his
poetry as well as in his prolific translations of classical poetry,
especially from Russian. Alterman's works, many of which are noted for their
political commentary, accompanied every stage of the development of the
Jewish community and are characterized by richness of language and a variety
of poetic forms, tone and rhyme, imagery and metaphor. Goldberg expanded the
spectrum of lyricism in poems which speak of the city, nature and the human
being in search of love, contact and attention. Greenberg, who wrote a
poetry of despair and rage using fierce imagery and stylistic power, dealt
mainly with nationalistic themes and the impact of the Holocaust. This group
of poets was the first to introduce the rhythms of everyday speech into
Hebrew poetry. They revived old idioms and coined new ones, giving the
ancient language a new flexibility and richness. The poetry of this period,
which was greatly influenced by Russian futurism and symbolism as well as by
German expressionism, tended towards the classical structure and melodicism
of ordered rhyming. It reflected images and landscapes of the poets' country
of birth and fresh visions of their new country in a heroic mode, as well as
memories from 'there' and the desire to sink roots 'here,' expressing, as
Lea Goldberg wrote, "the pain of two homelands." Many of the poems were set
to music and became an integral part of the country's national lore.
The first major woman poet in Hebrew was Rachel Bluwstein (1890-1931), who
was known simply as "Rachel." Her works established the normative foundation
of women's Hebrew poetry as well as the public's expectations of this
poetry. Its lyrical, short, emotional, intellectually unpretentious and
personal style has prevailed, as seen in most of the works of her
contemporaries and of later poets such as Dalia Ravikovitch and Maya
Bejerano.
In the mid-1950s, a new group of younger poets emerged, with Hebrew as their
mother tongue, headed by Yehuda Amichai, Natan Zach, Dan Pagis, T. Carmi and
David Avidan. This group, tending towards understatement, a general retreat
from collective experiences, free observation of reality and a colloquial
style, shifted the main poetic influences from Pushkin and Schiller to
modern English and American poetry. The works of Amichai, who has been
extensively translated, are marked by his use of daily speech, irony and
metaphysical metaphors. These became the hallmarks of much of the poetry
written by his younger contemporaries, who proclaimed the end of ideological
poetry and broke completely with the Alterman-Shlonsky tradition of
classical structures and ordered rhyming. Zach's works elicit innovative
near-liturgical and musical qualities from everyday spoken Hebrew.
The field of Hebrew poetry today is a polyphony comprised of several
generations, placing writers in their twenties together with poets of middle
age. Representative of the latter group are Meir Wieseltier, whose prosaic,
slangy and direct diction repudiates all romanticism and elevates the image
of Tel Aviv as the symbol of reality; Yair Hurvitz, whose restrained verses
express the gentle sadness of one aware of his own mortality: and Yona
Wallach, who presents herself in colloquial, sarcastic tones, using
archetypal motifs, Freudian symbolism, sometimes brutal sensuality, rhythmic
repetitions and long strings of associations. Other major contemporary poets
include Asher Reich, Arieh Sivan, Ronny Somak and Moshe Dor.
TonyaK9
"The Abstraction of Justice" <vigilante...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in
message news:d37c79d.04042...@posting.google.com...
news:<HRSgc.393$eZ5...@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>...
>
> > > But our resident racists insist that they are men of culture. That,
> > indeed,
> > > they are the last remaining defenders of Western civilization. So one
> > > would expect them to have some well thought-out commentary on
> > > Marlowe or Shakespeare.
>
> Yours in the culture of the chattering classes. You Jews can talk
> about Marlowe all day long, but you have to leave it to Englishmen to
> contribute to art.
>
> > Solzhenitsyn has coined a Russian word "obrazovanschina," which does not
> > have an adequate equivalent in English, to denote the Soviet-style "new
> > intelligentsia" - those people who got formal education in Soviet
> > universities and were able to throw a few names and notions around, but
> > lacked any true cultural depth, understanding of history or appreciation
for
> > arts.
>
> LAbert sounds like one such man, he thinks the Beatles and the Sex
> Pistols are better than Beethoven's muzak.
Beethoven's ... "muzak"???
Bravo!!!
Move over, Zhdanov!
> > Abstraction of Justice seems to provide a perfect proof that this
phenomenon
> > is not unique for the Soviet period half-educated comrades, but is
endemic
> > in Western societies as well, due to mass production of narrow-minded
> > "professionals."
>
> I can write better prose and poetry than you, I have deeper
> understanding of maths, physics and philosophy. I can compose melodies
> and other musical structures. So in terms of art, philosophy and
> science I am your superior. In terms of politics I have nothing on
> your scheming and your disembling - only people who regularly attend
> the synagogue could match your skills. All I know is how to be
> righteous, honest and confrontational with Jewish supremacists.
No no no, Obfuscation, don't sell yourself cheap.
You're great - very few people are as funny impersonating a half-literate
clown as you do!
Keep posting. I am gathering lots of useful material that none but you could
possibly provide - and just think of it! - free of charge... wow!
TK9
TonyaK9
Let's ask AOJ if he'd like to be assigned to the position of the Minister of
Taste for the whole Great Britain.
If we're lucky, he will provide substantial details - what reforms in public
taste he would implement, what kinds of music, books, art would be banned,
what kinds of punishment would be imposed on those disobeying His Orders,
and whether he would burn the "wrong" books, art and music sheets or would
he rather organize the "Degenerate Art" exhibitions.
Cm'on, Abstraction, do your shtick, let it all hang out.
Grateful Britain will be at your feet, begging for your reforms!
TK9
TonyaK9
My Jewish taste in music?
Tonya
The Abstraction of Justice
You can take this personally, or take it as a measure of Judaism as a
whole, but, WHAT A LOAD OF BOLLOCKS.
The Abstraction of Justice
>
> Let's ask AOJ if he'd like to be assigned to the position of the Minister of
> Taste for the whole Great Britain.
Provided that role gave me absolute power over all state agents. I
can't have some judge telling me I am breaking the Law. Rather, the
Law would be seen to break the good edicts of The Abstraction.
> If we're lucky, he will provide substantial details - what reforms in public
> taste he would implement, what kinds of music, books, art would be banned,
> what kinds of punishment would be imposed on those disobeying His Orders,
> and whether he would burn the "wrong" books, art and music sheets or would
> he rather organize the "Degenerate Art" exhibitions.
Pop, rock, jazz and rap would be banned. All the modern art would be
sold off to idiotic foreigners. Copyrights for offensive music (i,e
everything written after about 1930) would not be respected.
Broadcasting stations would lose their license to broadcast if they
broadcast banned music. I wouldn't bother with people playing this
stuff in their own homes, that would be too unpopular.
I would make it so that every author and composer and performing
artist has to prefix their race to their works' titles in order to get
copyright on them. This would affect all races equally. Thus the film
Excalibur would be known as 'the British Excalibur' and the films/book
Lord of the Flies would be known as 'the Jewish Lord of the Flies'.
Nothing wrong with racial transparency eh?
I would make it legal to destroy degenerate art and protect those who
do so, but I would not personally organize such destruction. Simply
put, I just don't consider it a crime to burn Picasso. If people do
so, I understand why and should guarantee their liberty.
The Abstraction of Justice
> Beethoven's ... "muzak"???
> Bravo!!!
> Move over, Zhdanov!
>
LAbert's word for Beethoven's music is muzak. You are offended by him, not I.
TonyaK9
"The Abstraction of Justice" <vigilante...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in
message news:d37c79d.04042...@posting.google.com...
Isn't it proper to say "not me" in English?
English seems to be the only language you claim to know, Obfuscation, and
even that...
Oh well.
TK9
TonyaK9
"The Abstraction of Justice" <vigilante...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in
message news:d37c79d.04042...@posting.google.com...
Real treasure of taste (but of course, you must remember how Alfred
Rosenberg ended his life...)
Thank you.
Wonderful.
However, your plan is not unique... here's why:
Read, for example Barr, Alfred. "Art in the Third Reich - Preview 1933".
Magazine of Art 38, no.6(October 1945): 212-222.
Barr, the director of the Museum of Modern Art from its inception in 1928
until 1943, displayed "almost prophetic insight" on his visit to Stuttgart
at the very beginning of Nazi rule in 1933. In Stuttgart, Barr found that
The "Battle Band for German Culture", an early official Nazi group with
affiliates in every important German city, dominated almost every phase of
German cultural life right from the beginning of the Nazi regime. He also
found that modern art, offensive to the Third Reich, was attacked in
Stuttgart, a city which had embraced the modern International Style in art
and architecture - a reasonable attachment since the International Style was
German in origin.
Or this - Grosshans, Henry. Hitler and the artists. New York: Holmes and
Meirer, 1983.
Hitler wanted the painting and sculpture of Nazi Germany to express Nazi
society. In this book, Grosshans traces the relationship between Hitler's
artistic and political views: Hitler's failure to achieve notice as an
artist; linking modern "degenerate" art with national decline; and his
growing anti-Semitism.
Or this - Hinz, Berthold. "Degenerate art". Art in the Third Reich, 23-44.
New York: Random House, 1979.
The Reich Chamber of Culture was the main organizational agency responsible
for change on the art scene between 1933 and 1937. The Reich Chamber of
Visual Arts was the subchamber responsible for artwork. In its earliest
stages the Chambers purged the art world of "degenerate" art and prohibited
the hiring of the undesirable artists. The next stage called for moving a
new National Socialist art forward, along with the artist.
The Degenerate Art Exhibit at the Munich Haus der Kunst
By Jennifer McAllister
The Degenerate Art exhibit opened by the National Socialists on July 19,
1937 (Entartete Kunst). It was a collection of over 650 paintings,
sculptures, prints and books from 32 public museums. According to Stephanie
Barron "The works were assembled for the purpose of clarifying for the
German public by defamation and derision exactly what type of modern art was
unacceptable to the Reich, and thus 'un-German'". From 1937 until 1940 the
exhibit was viewed by over four million people throughout Germany and
Austria.
In 1937 Joseph Goebbels confiscated over 16,000 works which were considered
"degenerate". Much of the works were sold to foreign art buyers to make
money for the Reich. The Nazis condemned most pre-1933 art, rejecting
Germany's artistic heritage. Surprisingly only six of the "degenerate"
artists were Jewish. (Barron 9)
Barron states that "in 1979 Berthold Hinz produced evidence that Einstein's
Die Junst des 20 Jahrhunderts (The Art of the Twentieth Century) was in fact
used as a guide by many of the National Socialists in defining who and what
was modern, and consequently 'un-German' and to be vilified."
In November of 1933 Goebbels created the ReichsKammerce (Reich Chambers) for
film, muic , radio, broadcasting, press, theater and fine arts. This gave
microscipic attention to the cultural details of German life. Procedures
were established to decide who and what were acceptable. Many of the
movements such as Cubism, Expressionism, and Dada were misunderstood by the
German people, suffering from economic collapse. The demoralized nation
viewed these art forms as intellectual, and highly elitest linking them to
the poor condition of the country. This also linked these artists to the
"supposed international conspiracy of Communists and Jews." Many artists
were Socialists, making their art easily identifiable as anti-German.
"The avant-garde artist was equated to the insane, who in turn was
synonymous with the Jew: the ninteenth-century founders of German psychiatry
felt that the Jew was inherently degenerate and more susceptible than the
non-Jew to insanity. As Sander Gilman has pointed out, the classifications
of "degenerate" and "healthy" appeared for the first time in the late
nineteenth century, by the late 1930's they were fairly standard in
discussions about the avant-garde and the traditional."
The roots for the Munich exhibition can be seen in 1933. The Deutscher
Kunstberich issued a five point manifesto describing "what German artists
could expect from the new government." These included:
-All works of a cosmopolitan or Bolshevist nature should be removed from
German museums and collections, but first they should be exhibited to the
public, who should be informed of the details of their acquisition and then
burned.
-All museum directors who "wasted" public monies by purchasing
"un-German" art should be fired immediately.
-No artist with Marxist or Bolshevist connections should be mentioned
henceforth.
-No boxlike buildings should be built.
-All public sculptures not "approved" by the German public should be
immediately removed.
Hitler used the attack on art to further German anti-Semitic feelings.
Avant-garde works were charged with "degneracy", confiscated "to purify
German culture".
At the opening of the Haus der Kunst Hitler announced "From now on we are
going to wage a merciless war of destruction against the last remaining
elements of cultural disintegration..Should there be someone among [the
artists] who still believes in his higher destiny- well now, he has had four
years' time to prove himself. The four years are sufficient for us, too, to
reach a definite judgment. From now one- of that you can be certain- all
those mutually supporting and thereby sustaining cliques of chatterers,
dilettantes, and art forgers will be picked up and liquidated. For all we
care, those prehistoric Stone-Age culture-barbarians and art-stutterers can
return tot he caves of their ancestors and there can apply their primitive
international scratchings."
"Degnerate art" was defined as art that "insult German feeling or destroy or
confuse natural form, or simply reveal an absence of adequate manual and
artistic skill."
The seizure of the artworks was finally legalized in May 1938 in a
retroactive law which stated "products of degenerate art that have been
secured in mueums or in collections open to the public before this law went
into effect.maybe appropriated by the Reich without compensation."
Those artworks not put on display were either sent to a warehouse in Berlin
or sent for sale in other countries. At an auction at the Fischer Gallery
125 painting and sculptures were sold in the summer of 1939. The auction
grossed over 500,000 Swiss francs (around $115,000).
Discarded as "degnerate" German expressionism has found its place once again
in the art world. Works tossed aside by the Germans have been bought up by
connoiseurs. In 1955 Jan Ahlers purchased an Auguste Macke work for $1,100.
Today the painting is valued at $400,000. Ownership rights are also in
dispute, creating a new crisis on "degenerate art".
Goebbels and Alfred Rosenberg maintained the most power in German culture.
Much of the control of the arts and culture came through other ministries.
Kunst politik was controlled by too many offices and too many conflicting
personalities. Goebbels wanted to create and head a Ministry of Culture.
Disliked by President Hindenburg he could not rise above a Ministerialrat
position. He partioned off his responsibilities as head of the Nazi Party
Propaganda Leadership to other leaders. Goebbels pushed for the creation of
the RMVP. He attained money to expand his ministry and increase his number
of employees. He also "proved a shrewd administrator. He brought in young,
ambitious, and comparatively well educated men, and not Party hacks."
Before 1937 there was no definitive "anti-German" art. Different Party
leaders , or factions supported different styles of art. Goebbels was a fan
of modern art. While the volkisch saw modern art as "un-German". Hitler
criticized both factions and did not come in support of either groups until
much later. On September 22, 1933 Goebbels announced the creation of the RKK
(Reichskulturkammer) of which he would be president. Goebbels interlinked
the RKK and the RMVP. He appointed party members to positions in both
groups. Goebbles also gave some powers to the volkisch faction. He named
Eugen Horig, a conservative, president of the RkdbK.
Alfred Rosenberg was the leader of the volkisch faction, or the KfdK. The
platform of the volkisch "included the idealization of the German peasant,
the rejection of all non-traditional aesthetic styles, and a propensity
towards racism based on the supposition that artistic expression and 'blood'
are inextricably linked." Rosenberg, as head of the KfdK, was not as strong
as Goebbles- delegating much work to others. However he did receive strong
support from Hitler. To compete with Goebbels state cultural organization,
Hitler created a party organization, the DBFU, and named Rosenbert the head
of the organization.
zzzzara
> "TonyaK9" <Ton...@excite.com> wrote in message news:<wSohc.4945$e4....@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>...
>
> >
> > Let's ask AOJ if he'd like to be assigned to the position of the Minister of
> > Taste for the whole Great Britain.
>
> Provided that role gave me absolute power over all state agents. I
> can't have some judge telling me I am breaking the Law. Rather, the
> Law would be seen to break the good edicts of The Abstraction.
>
> > If we're lucky, he will provide substantial details - what reforms in public
> > taste he would implement, what kinds of music, books, art would be banned,
> > what kinds of punishment would be imposed on those disobeying His Orders,
> > and whether he would burn the "wrong" books, art and music sheets or would
> > he rather organize the "Degenerate Art" exhibitions.
>
> Pop, rock, jazz and rap would be banned. All the modern art would be
> sold off to idiotic foreigners. Copyrights for offensive music (i,e
> everything written after about 1930) would not be respected.
> Broadcasting stations would lose their license to broadcast if they
> broadcast banned music. I wouldn't bother with people playing this
> stuff in their own homes, that would be too unpopular.
>
> I would make it so that every author and composer and performing
> artist has to prefix their race to their works' titles in order to get
> copyright on them. This would affect all races equally. Thus the film
> Excalibur would be known as 'the British Excalibur'
The screenplay was written by Rospo Pallenberg, who I believe is Jewish.
> and the films/book
> Lord of the Flies would be known as 'the Jewish Lord of the Flies'.
> Nothing wrong with racial transparency eh?
>
> I would make it legal to destroy degenerate art and protect those who
> do so, but I would not personally organize such destruction. Simply
> put, I just don't consider it a crime to burn Picasso. If people do
> so, I understand why and should guarantee their liberty.
State sanctioned book-burnings? Your politics are indeed transparent.
BOEDICIA
>From: vigilante...@yahoo.co.uk (The Abstraction of Justice)
>Date: 4/20/04 8:27 PM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: <d37c79d.04042...@posting.google.com>
Not to mention their taste in "Modern Art".
Did you ever see that black Madonna covered in elephant dung and porn? Ever
see that cow covered in maggots?
*That* so called "Art" was shown at The Brooklyn Museum courtesy of the jew
Saatchi who financed it.
Ever see 24 tins of human excrement exhibited as "Modern Art". *that* so
called
"art" was shown at The Serpentine Gallery in London courtesy of the jew
Bloomberg, now mayor of New York.
How they looooooooooove the "art" of the gutter. Not a Van Goh among them.
BOEDICIA
>Date: 4/20/04 11:52 PM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: <wSohc.4945$e4....@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>
>
>Let's ask AOJ if he'd like to be assigned to the position of the Minister of
>Taste for the whole Great Britain.
>If we're lucky, he will provide substantial details - what reforms in public
>taste he would implement, what kinds of music, books, art would be banned,
>what kinds of punishment would be imposed on those disobeying His Orders,
>and whether he would burn the "wrong" books, art and music sheets or would
>he rather organize the "Degenerate Art" exhibitions.
The "Degenerate Art" exhibition came to Los Angeles a few years ago. I saw it
and fully agree with the label - it was not only degenerate it was garbage.
Jackson Pollack also produced something like it.
I always thought it looked like something one of my children used to bring home
from kindergarted. They called it fingerpainting.
Ever see The Black Madonna?
TonyaK9
"BOEDICIA" <boed...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040421185906...@mb-m13.aol.com...
>
> The "Degenerate Art" exhibition came to Los Angeles a few years ago. I saw
it
> and fully agree with the label - it was not only degenerate it was
garbage.
"BOEDICIA" <boed...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040421185415...@mb-m13.aol.com...
>
> How they looooooooooove the "art" of the gutter. Not a Van Goh among
them.
Saltzman, Cynthia. Portrait of Dr. Gachet: the story of a Van Gogh
masterpiece. New York: Viking, 1998. xxii, 406 pp.
The author's story of this van Gogh illuminates the ways in which art,
politics, and the market have intersected in this century. The painting,
confiscated as "degenerate art" by the Third Reich's Propoganda Ministry,
was secretly sold by the Nazis.
Boy, do I love shooting these Nazis down!
TK9
TonyaK9
it
> and fully agree with the label - it was not only degenerate it was
garbage.
L Alpert
He hasn't published them, yet....(LOL)