Re: HATEMONGER DEFAMES IRELAND AND THE IRISH
-Beacon
"Jeff" <nob...@spamcop.net> wrote in message
news:kmApc.30408$bS1.28275@okepread02...
> A new hatemonger in the US has hijacked the good name and reputation of
the
> Irish people by promoting racial hatred in the name of the Irish people.
[snip]
I do not oppose the right to speech. I think the likes of this guy is better
off exposed and debated. Making holocaust denial a crime (and there are
moves to do so in the EU) does not make sense to me. Far better to take the
denier on head first! I don't deny the holocaust but I am a revisionist. I
believe that history must be revcised based on facts. It happens to be a
fact that the holocaust happened! I do believe however that say the
peoportion of of Southern Irish or Catholic Irish who dies in say WWI should
be revisited and publicised.
This guy shows a lot of sighs of the stupid white man who thinks that
because he has a few books that his argument is solid and philosophically
supported. The "fifty facts about the holocaust not happening idea" is wide
open to challenge. He also shows all the trappings of the skinhead.
I am surprised at somethings however. Look at the discography .IIR
Skrewdriver's Stuart (really Donaldson) marketed himself under "The
Klansmen" in the US to pull in rockabilly audiences in addition to the
skinheads.
However:
The Irish radio links re racism are quite a collection and worth having in
an archive.
Riain Barton
amongst themselves! I know I am an Irish citizen, and I know first hand the
hate of Jews from most Irish, and their pro-Arab-terror stance. Just look at
the hate mongering on irishantiwar.org and on from the Ireland Palestine
Solidarity Campaign and the Irish led Boycott Israel Campaign!!!
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Boycott_Ireland
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ireland-Israel-Solidarity
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Jewish_Ireland
"-Beacon" <mavis....@notypedspam.please> wrote in message
news:IvKpc.7970$qP2....@news.indigo.ie...
OldWiseMan
"Riain Barton" <ri...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:qkPpc.12938$KE6...@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> I know I am an Irish citizen, and I know first hand the
> hate of Jews from most Irish, and their pro-Arab-terror stance. Just look
at
> the hate mongering on irishantiwar.org and on from the Ireland Palestine
> Solidarity Campaign and the Irish led Boycott Israel Campaign!!!
I am an Irish citizen and I never heard of these organisations or their
websites until you decided to give them some free publicity here.
Not -so -clever spam, methinks.
Binyamin Dissen
wrote:
:>"Riain Barton" <ri...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
:>news:qkPpc.12938$KE6...@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
You weren't aware that the IRA has provided much help to the cowardly arab
moslem terrorist organizations?
--
Binyamin Dissen <bdi...@dissensoftware.com>
http://www.dissensoftware.com
OldWiseMan
"Binyamin Dissen" <post...@dissensoftware.com> wrote in message
news:60ifa0hsb8prkk34h...@4ax.com...
> You weren't aware that the IRA has provided much help to the cowardly arab
> moslem terrorist organizations?
You aren't aware that the IRA do not speak for the Irish people?
Binyamin Dissen
wrote:
:>"Binyamin Dissen" <post...@dissensoftware.com> wrote in message
:>news:60ifa0hsb8prkk34h...@4ax.com...
I must have missed all the Irish people speaking out against the IRA.
I must have missed all the Irish groups collecting money for the IRA.
Terry
<post...@dissensoftware.com> wrote:
>You weren't aware that the IRA has provided much help to the cowardly arab
>moslem terrorist organizations?
The IRA certainly provided much help to the jewish terrorist
organizations. You're not complaining about that. Perhaps history
isn't a strong point of yours.
"Briscoe was always more reticent about his work for the Irgun. He
became an enthusiastic supporter of Zionism after meeting Vladimir
Jabotinsky when he visited Ireland to study the tactics of the IRA
against the British and was fully briefed by Briscoe: "I appointed
myself to a full professorship with the Chair of Subversive Activity
against England." During the war he went to South Africa and raise
considerable funds from its Jewish community to help ferry Jewish
immigrants past the British and into Palestine.
But he conceded laconically: "Most of the immigrant work was organized
by the Haganah. I naturally was drawn to the Irgun."
But after the sinking of the Irgun's gun-running ship, the Altalena,
in Tel Aviv, Briscoe became horrified at the prospect of a Jewish
civil war, like he had witnessed in Ireland. At a meeting with
Menachem Begin in Paris, he urged Begin to abandon the Irgun as a
physical force movement and convert it to a constitutional party, as
the IRA had done."
OldWiseMan
> On Sun, 16 May 2004 21:09:46 +0100 "OldWiseMan"
<oldwis...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> :>"Binyamin Dissen" <post...@dissensoftware.com> wrote in message
> :>news:60ifa0hsb8prkk34h...@4ax.com...
>
> :>> You weren't aware that the IRA has provided much help to the cowardly
arab
> :>> moslem terrorist organizations?
>
> :>You aren't aware that the IRA do not speak for the Irish people?
>
> I must have missed all the Irish people speaking out against the IRA.
>
> I must have missed all the Irish groups collecting money for the IRA.
>
> --
You must have missed Irish election results where in the last General
Election, Sinn Fein* got 6.5% (that's six point five) of the vote.
(*I'd perhaps better explain that Sinn Fein are the political wing of the
IRA as you obviously know fuck all about Ireland and its politics)
Riain Barton
different time periods and two-different IRA's!!!!!
The IRA, before the establishment of the Republic was not and is not the
same PROVISIONAL IRA of Northern Ireland!
You are trying to mix apples and orange -- and doing so shows your prejudice
against Jews and your JUDAEPHOBIA!
BRISCOE was just one of many PATRIOTIC IRISH-JEWS who served Ireland with
HONOUR!
"Terry" <terr...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3cifa0tqvjlub1r4q...@4ax.com...
GoldenArse
> moslem terrorist organizations?
>
> --
> Binyamin Dissen <bdi...@dissensoftware.com>
> http://www.dissensoftware.com
The IRA don't represent Irish people.
GoldenArse
SCI Waiting fer Ray
Des Higgins
"Riain Barton" <ri...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:qkPpc.12938$KE6...@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> amongst themselves! I know I am an Irish citizen,
I do not believe you.
You just crossposted this to s.culture.jewish and s.culture.israel, looking
for a fight. You are trolling. I do not believe you are Irish.
The organisations below do not speak on behalf of anyone but themselves.
Every country in the western world, including Israel has such organisations.
and I know first hand the
> hate of Jews from most Irish,
What hate; can you give specific examples. This really is a revellation to
me.
Riain Barton
you seem to call strangers and people you disagree with liars.
What am I suppose to do send you a copy of my bloody Irish passport?
Who the fuck do you think you are?
I can fucking cross-post if I wish! You fucking racist eejit! The three
groups are significant to me! And ye are the ones who started the
anti-Semitic threads in the Irish group!
"Des Higgins" <fath...@eircom.net> wrote in message
news:pFRpc.8014$qP2....@news.indigo.ie...
Des Higgins
> Ask me bollocks you wee prat -- obviously I am more Irish than you. Since
> you seem to call strangers and people you disagree with liars.
>
> What am I suppose to do send you a copy of my bloody Irish passport?
>
> Who the fuck do you think you are?
>
> I can fucking cross-post if I wish! You fucking racist eejit! The three
> groups are significant to me! And ye are the ones who started the
> anti-Semitic threads in the Irish group!
>
Which anti-semitic thread was started in soc.culture.irish?
Des Higgins
> Ask me bollocks you wee prat -- obviously I am more Irish than you. Since
> you seem to call strangers and people you disagree with liars.
>
> What am I suppose to do send you a copy of my bloody Irish passport?
>
> Who the fuck do you think you are?
>
I think I am me;
You made a dramtic claim about Ireland and Irish people (all of them; an
dthen have the gall to claim that we (irish; all of us) are racist and/or
anti-semitic).
I asked you to give examples of anti-semitism in Irleland because I found
you claim fantastic.
Can you please give me an example.
> I can fucking cross-post if I wish! You fucking racist eejit!
I am not sure how you can infer that I am racist because I suggested that
you are trolling by cross-posting to other newsgroups.
In this case, you calling me racist and an eejit is a bit ironic.
Conquistador
I certainly hope so! ARAB HEROES NEED ALL THE HELP THEY CAN GET!
Conquistador
"OldWiseMan" <oldwis...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2gq04aF...@uni-berlin.de...
Conquistador
> On Sun, 16 May 2004 21:09:46 +0100 "OldWiseMan"
<oldwis...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> :>"Binyamin Dissen" <post...@dissensoftware.com> wrote in message
> :>news:60ifa0hsb8prkk34h...@4ax.com...
>
> :>> You weren't aware that the IRA has provided much help to the cowardly
arab
> :>> moslem terrorist organizations?
>
> :>You aren't aware that the IRA do not speak for the Irish people?
Now, why would Irish people do that? They love both Irish and
palestinian people just like the rest of the world does!
JStewart
> On Sun, 16 May 2004 21:09:46 +0100 "OldWiseMan"
<oldwis...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> :>"Binyamin Dissen" <post...@dissensoftware.com> wrote in message
> :>news:60ifa0hsb8prkk34h...@4ax.com...
>
> :>> You weren't aware that the IRA has provided much help to the cowardly
arab
> :>> moslem terrorist organizations?
>
> :>You aren't aware that the IRA do not speak for the Irish people?
>
> I must have missed all the Irish people speaking out against the IRA.
That's not the fault of the Irish. They've done it, whether you cared to pay
attention or not, or to acknowledge it, is a different matter. Go review
election results, and some Irish history, if you're unsure.
> I must have missed all the Irish groups collecting money for the IRA.
Oh, you missed them but you know they exist? Nice logic.
Susan Cohen
>
> "Binyamin Dissen" <post...@dissensoftware.com> wrote in message
> news:3uifa0phtnv4lca9d...@4ax.com...
> > On Sun, 16 May 2004 21:09:46 +0100 "OldWiseMan"
> <oldwis...@hotmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > :>"Binyamin Dissen" <post...@dissensoftware.com> wrote in message
> > :>news:60ifa0hsb8prkk34h...@4ax.com...
> >
> > :>> You weren't aware that the IRA has provided much help to the
cowardly
> arab
> > :>> moslem terrorist organizations?
> >
> > :>You aren't aware that the IRA do not speak for the Irish people?
> >
> > I must have missed all the Irish people speaking out against the IRA.
Yes, he *must* have.
> >
> > I must have missed all the Irish groups collecting money for the IRA.
>
> > --
>
> You must have missed Irish election results where in the last General
> Election, Sinn Fein* got 6.5% (that's six point five) of the vote.
That's a lot! I'm surprised!
>
> (*I'd perhaps better explain that Sinn Fein are the political wing of the
> IRA as you obviously know fuck all about Ireland and its politics)
Saying that the IRA speaks for America is like saying that David Duke speaks
for the Republicans.
He certainly got more than 6.5 of the vote when he ran for governor of
Louisiana.
For our non-American readers, David Duke at one time openly belonged to the
KKK.
Supposedly, he no longer belongs.
Susan
>
>
Susan Cohen
> On Sun, 16 May 2004 20:35:58 GMT, "Riain Barton"
> <ri...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> >And you are talking out of your arse and out of context and about two
> >different time periods and two-different IRA's!!!!!
> >
> >The IRA, before the establishment of the Republic was not and is not the
> >same PROVISIONAL IRA of Northern Ireland!
>
>
> >You are trying to mix apples and orange -- and doing so shows your
prejudice
> >against Jews and your JUDAEPHOBIA!
>
> issue indicates "the poster's prejudice against Jews and your
> JUDAEPHOBIA!"
>
> You can overuse that line, you know.
It's hard to do - but I actually think he just did!!
>
> >BRISCOE was just one of many PATRIOTIC IRISH-JEWS who served Ireland with
> >HONOUR!
>
> And a very lucky man too that he was born at the right time for the
> "good" IRA, rather than the "bad" IRA.
>
> So were these Jewish terrorists, good terrorists or bad terrorists?
Depends.
Which is worse: blowing up British Military Headquarters after giving a
warning, or shooting a pregnant woman and her 4 daughters?
Susan
> It's very hard to keep up with whatever current simplistics says we
> ought to think.
>
> Terry
BOEDICIA
>From: Famous Belgian whis...@hotmail.com
>Date: 5/16/04 2:00 PM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: <i9lfa0haeng2i358e...@4ax.com>
>>moslem terrorist organizations?
>
>took the nom de guerre name Michael Collins.
>
>Shamir said he was "neutral" about the IRA's 1984 bombing of a hotel
>in Brighton despite the fact that Margaret Thatcher was overtly
>pro-Israel.
>
>"It's a question of the battle for freedom," he said.
Said the filthy commie terrorist Polish born jew dwarf. If he wanted to murder
British soldiers he should have done it *before* they liberated Belsen.
The IRA is a Marxist organisation so it is only natural that the commie jew
agitator Shamir would approve of anything they did.
Jeff
news:aoYpc.207738$L31....@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
> For our non-American readers, David Duke at one time openly belonged to
the
> KKK.
> Supposedly, he no longer belongs.
Yes, he now has the distinguished title of Former Ku Klux Klan Leader David
Duke.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!
Terry
wrote:
>
>"Terry" <terr...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:lkkfa0l430q2unta3...@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 16 May 2004 20:35:58 GMT, "Riain Barton"
>> <ri...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>> >And you are talking out of your arse and out of context and about two
>> >different time periods and two-different IRA's!!!!!
>> >
>> >The IRA, before the establishment of the Republic was not and is not the
>> >same PROVISIONAL IRA of Northern Ireland!
>>
>> Plus ca change...
>>
>> >You are trying to mix apples and orange -- and doing so shows your
>prejudice
>> >against Jews and your JUDAEPHOBIA!
>>
>> It appears that almost anything anyone says about the Israel/Palestine
>> issue indicates "the poster's prejudice against Jews and your
>> JUDAEPHOBIA!"
>>
>> You can overuse that line, you know.
>
>It's hard to do - but I actually think he just did!!
Yes, he did,
>> >BRISCOE was just one of many PATRIOTIC IRISH-JEWS who served Ireland with
>> >HONOUR!
>>
>> And a very lucky man too that he was born at the right time for the
>> "good" IRA, rather than the "bad" IRA.
>>
>> So were these Jewish terrorists, good terrorists or bad terrorists?
>
>Depends.
>Which is worse: blowing up British Military Headquarters after giving a
>warning, or shooting a pregnant woman and her 4 daughters?
It certainly used to be the case that the targeting of other military
forces was supposed to be the distinguishing feature. Today I see both
state forces and irregulars targeting civilians and armed enemy
forces, with at best a lack of concern for the civilian damage that
ensues.
It's getting increasingly difficult to make any moral distinction
between either, and all that seems to be left is a political
distinction.
And of course, political problems are best resolved politically. The
moral distinction acting as no more than an impediment to that
political resolution.
Terry
Terry
>The American equivalent to the IRA is probably the lunatics behind the
>Oklahoma bombing.
Or more probably not.
The comparison with the Oklahoma bombers are groups like the
Baader-Meinhof Gang and Red Army Faction.
The IRA are more usually compared with the national liberation
movements in Latin America and elsehere during the 1970's, where
violence arose because government forces were themselves violent and
undemocratic.
Nelson Mandela has certainly compared the IRA struggle with that of
the ANC. and the truth of that comparison can be seen in the
increasing support that Republicans are getting at the polls.
Only someone who wanted to misrepresent things would claim that they
were anything like the Oklahoma bombers. And of course even the US
State Department itself officially recognizes the difference between
the IRA and these other groups.
Terry
westprog
> news:3uifa0phtnv4lca9d...@4ax.com...
> You must have missed Irish election results where in the last General
> Election, Sinn Fein* got 6.5% (that's six point five) of the vote.
> (*I'd perhaps better explain that Sinn Fein are the political wing of the
> IRA as you obviously know fuck all about Ireland and its politics)
If he wanted to stick around, he could read a lot of Irish people talking
about what bastards the IRA are. That's not to say that they don't have
support; there are pro-IRA posters from the USA, Australia, New Zealand etc.
C/
SOTW: "Lift Your Razor High" - Sondheim
Samson
--
visit: www.geocities.com/jewishadvocacynews:iunga090efjtuvet2...@4ax.com...
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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Terry
wrote:
> visit: www.geocities.com/jewishadvocacy
http://archives.tcm.ie/breakingnews/2002/02/25/story41229.asp
Your move.
GoldenArse
> Ask me bollocks you wee prat -- obviously I am more Irish than you. Since
> you seem to call strangers and people you disagree with liars.
>
> What am I suppose to do send you a copy of my bloody Irish passport?
>
> Who the fuck do you think you are?
>
> I can fucking cross-post if I wish! You fucking racist eejit! The three
> groups are significant to me! And ye are the ones who started the
> anti-Semitic threads in the Irish group!
The first five words tells me this prat is certainly and most definitely not
Irish. Some Yank who's got Scotland mixed up thinking it's Ireland.
GoldenArse
SCI Och Aye the Noo
TonyaK9
"GoldenArse" <unli...@home.com> wrote in message
news:p_3qc.3597$H_3....@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
Does that mean that most Irish would actually approve of having anti-Semitic
threads starting in the Irish group?
Please clarify.
Thank you.
TK9
Des Higgins
"TonyaK9" <Ton...@excite.com> wrote in message
news:_X4qc.3661$H_3....@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
What threads.
Started by whom exactly?
If some wanker wants to post antisemitic stuff on sci give out to them.
Riain Barton just said all Irish are racist which is, ironically, racist.
TonyaK9
"Des Higgins" <dazzh...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:newscache$ah3wxh$sq5$1...@weblab.ucd.ie...
Oh, let's say, holocaust denials...
> Started by whom exactly?
That's immaterial. What's important is the reaction of the group at large to
such posts.
> If some wanker wants to post antisemitic stuff on sci give out to them.
This has not been the practice of the regulars at soc.culture.jewish and
soc.culture.israel, and by the way, those who attempted to paint dirt on
other peoples, without provocation on their part, have been strongly flames
by us as well.
I didn't know Irish to be ready to give out at first request of any walk-by
wanker...
> Riain Barton just said all Irish are racist which is, ironically, racist.
I doubt very much that Riain's post was unprovoked.
TK9
cadhan
TonyaK9 <Ton...@excite.com> writes
Please define "anti-Semitic".
>
>
--
/\Cadhan
cadhan
>Oh, let's say, holocaust denials...
>
>> Started by whom exactly?
>
>That's immaterial. What's important is the reaction of the group at large to
>such posts.
>
>> If some wanker wants to post antisemitic stuff on sci give out to them.
>
>This has not been the practice of the regulars at soc.culture.jewish and
>soc.culture.israel, and by the way, those who attempted to paint dirt on
>other peoples, without provocation on their part,
You can talk... 2 weeks ago you publicly defamed an eminent Rabbi simply
because he does not share your rabid racist opinions... Have you heard
from his legal people yet...?
>have been strongly flames
>by us as well.
You would not know a flame if it hit you in the arse...
>I didn't know Irish to be ready to give out at first request of any walk-by
>wanker...
>
>> Riain Barton just said all Irish are racist which is, ironically, racist.
>
>I doubt very much that Riain's post was unprovoked.
>
>TK9
>
>
>
>
--
/\Cadhan
TonyaK9
"cadhan" <diad...@finhall.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:ZTwzM$ZXlPq...@finhall.demon.co.uk...
> >
> >Oh, let's say, holocaust denials...
> >
> >> Started by whom exactly?
> >
> >That's immaterial. What's important is the reaction of the group at large
to
> >such posts.
> >
> >> If some wanker wants to post antisemitic stuff on sci give out to them.
> >
> >This has not been the practice of the regulars at soc.culture.jewish and
> >soc.culture.israel, and by the way, those who attempted to paint dirt on
> >other peoples, without provocation on their part,
>
> You can talk... 2 weeks ago you publicly defamed an eminent Rabbi simply
> because he does not share your rabid racist opinions... Have you heard
> from his legal people yet...?
"Defamed an eminent Rabbi"?
My "racist opinions"?
Links, please...
Thank you in advance.
TK9
GoldenArse
"TonyaK9" <Ton...@excite.com> wrote in message
news:_X4qc.3661$H_3....@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
anti-Semitic
> threads starting in the Irish group?
> Please clarify.
> Thank you.
> TK9
>
>
No, it means that no Irish person I've ever met would say "Ask me bollocks
you wee prat".... you can tell a lot from word usage you know. Irish people
are *NOT* anti-semitic. Just anti-semantic.
GoldenArse
SCI Cunning Linguist
JStewart
> Ask me bollocks you wee prat ....
Not related to the main thread, and I realise people can pick things
up during their travels, but do people in Killarney, or most parts of
the south, normally use the word 'wee' - I thought this was a northern
thing? Would a Dubliner use it?
TonyaK9
> In message <_X4qc.3661$H_3....@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
> TonyaK9 <Ton...@excite.com> writes
>
anti-Semitic
> >threads starting in the Irish group?
> >Please clarify.
> >Thank you.
> >TK9
>
> Please define "anti-Semitic".
Happy to oblige.
Below you will find some excerpts from the Symposium on Anti-Semitism,
published by Jamie Glazov in the FrontPageMagazine.com in September 2003:
Why has anti-Semitism become the new mantle of leftist politics? If the Left
sees itself as the enemy of oppression in all its forms, why has it so
disastrously failed to recognize and confront the hatred of Jews within its
own ranks? Is it because anti-Semitism has become so deeply enmeshed with
the radical obsessions of anti-Americanism, anti-capitalism and
anti-globalization? And what role do leftist Jews play in this phenomenon?
What explains their desire to rid the Israeli state of the capacity to
effectively defend itself?
To discuss these and other issues connected to Leftist Anti-Semitism,
Frontpage Symposium has arranged a distinguished panel of experts. Joining
us today are: Sol Stern, a contributing editor to City Journal and a
Manhattan Institute senior fellow; Phyllis Chesler, Ph.D, is the author of
twelve books, including the international bestseller WOMEN AND MADNESS. Her
most recent book is The New Anti-Semitism: The Current Crisis and What We
Must Do About It; Roger S. Gottlieb, Professor of Philosophy at Worcester
Polytechnic Institute, author or editor of 12 books whose topics include
Marxism, Environmentalism, the Holocaust, and contemporary religion, most
recently Joining Hands: Politics and Religion Together for Social Change and
A Spirituality of Resistance: Finding a Peaceful Heart and Protecting the
Earth. He is also 'Reading Spirit' columnist for Tikkun Magazine; and David
Rosen, a professor of anthropology and law at Fairleigh Dickison University
in Madison, N.J. He is now finishing a book titled Children at War for
Rutgers University Press, which deals with child soldiers in the
Israeli-Palestinian Conflict, the civil war in Sierra Leone, and Jewish
partisan fighters during WWII.
Interlocutor: Ladies and gentlemen, let us begin with three general
questions:
(a) What is anti-Semitism?
(b) What are its origins?
(c) Why anti-Semitism?
Stern: Anti-Semitism is a very old social disease. It has been a permanent
feature of the Western Christian world for two thousand years, although it
has obviously morphed and metastasised into many forms. It began as a
rejection of the Jews because of their honorable refusal to abandon belief
in their special covenant with God and to accept the new Christian covenant.
With the deicide charge this then turned into vicious persecution, expulsion
and murder. Anti-Semitism became so rooted in popular Christian culture that
it persisted even in societies in which there were no Jews -- such as
England in the four hundred years after the Jews were expelled.
In the modern age, justifications for the hatred of Jews took on a
pseudo-scientific character. Europe saw the growth of anti-Semitic political
parties. Racialist anti-Semitism portrayed the Jews, even so-called
"emancipated" Jews, as a genetically debased and inferior people. This led
directly to the gas chambers.
Incredibly, the Holocaust was not yet the end of the story. After a short
respite the racialist version of anti-Semitism re-emerged in the Arab world
as a weapon against Israel -- the so-called "intruder" in an otherwise pure
Muslim civilization. Today Nazi doctrines of Jewish perfidy are openly
published in the Arab press and by Arab governments. And from the Middle
East these ideas and sentiments are filtering back to Western Europe, the
original scene of the crime, where they are again being taken up by the
extreme right. The other new twist to the story is that this politicized,
racialist anti-Semitism is now beginning to corrupt the Left as well.
Chesler: a) Jew-hatred is the term I currently prefer because anti-Semitism
also applies to non-Jewish Arabs and the liberal-left is very concerned with
the curtailment of their civil liberties in America and Europe--much less so
with the loss of Jewish civilian life in Israel. Jew-hatred is the
irrational dislike, fear, envy, mistrust of both Jews and the Jewish state.
The obsessive demonization of the one (and only) Jewish state is, today, a
new form of Jew-hatred.
b) From the psychological point of view, when people are suffering, feel
deserted by God, feel utterly powerless, but also feel they can do nothing
about this--blaming and scapegoating a vulnerable "other" is a way of
feeling powerful but without having to do anything risky and without really
solving one's own problems. Frustration and rage against true tyrants closer
to home coupled with indoctrination by life-long propaganda against the Jews
makes the Jews a preferred target. Other groups are scapegoated too but few
other groups are seen as both unacceptably "primitive" and unacceptably
"modern," as both capitalists and communists, patriots and
internationalists, close-ranked and totally assimilated. There's something
for everyone to hate.
c) Anti-Semitism today has been in the works since Arab Muslims joined
forces with Nazi Germans in the 1930s both in terms of propaganda and in
terms of continuous massacres of Jews in British Palestine, restricted
immigration, refusal to absorb 200,000 Palestinian refugees as citizens in
any one of 22 Arab states. Soviet Russia stepped up the propaganda and
alliance with Arabs and over a period of 55 years literally
indoctrinated/educated Arabs and Western intellectuals both on the Left, in
the academy, and in the media to see despotic Arabs (and suicide bombers) as
"victims," Israelis as "victimizers." What is "new" about anti-Semitism is
that it is now "politically correct" on the presumably anti-racist and
feminist Left to hate Jews and especially the Jewish state.
Rosen: The central meaning of Anti-Semitism is hatred and discrimination
against Jews. It developed as a cultural, social and political force in
Europe over the centuries and it now has an increasingly global dimension.
As a form of irrational hatred it has expressed itself in many ways. At
first, it was mostly religious hatred but by the time of the Spanish
Inquisition it had taken on a racial dimension. Nowadays Anti-Semitism's
main expression is political. It is found in actions and ideologies that
call for the destruction of the State of Israel or that assert that Zionism
per se is racism. Religious Anti-Semitism charges Jews with having committed
a terrible original sin -- such as killing Christ or poisoning Mohammed -
that justified collective punishment. Racial Anti-Semitism portrays Jews as
subhuman, diseased, and parasitical. The narrative of original sin has
returned to political anti-Semitism where the "sin" is the dispossession and
treatment of the Palestinians.
Gottlieb: a) Anti-Semitism is hatred of Jews, irrational prejudice which
rejects the value of Jewish culture and denies the right of Jews to live and
flourish individually and collectively. It has taken religious,
pseudo-scientific, nationalist, and political forms. It is distinct among
ethic/religious hatreds
for its longevity, wide-spread character, and the way it combines images of
Jews as vermin, animals, in league with the devil, etc. and images of Jews
as enormously powerful, ruling the world, etc.
(b) The origins? Depends on your reading of ancient history. I would say it
originates in the competition between early Christianity and its older and
more established parent, Judaism.
(c) Why anti-Semitism? There is no one single reason for this. In each
social setting there are particular reasons, and then the virtually unique
historical continuity of the Jewish people enables later version to attach
to earlier ones. Most often it is used by the ruling class to deflect
criticism by those they rule, turning their resentment against the Jews
instead; by the oppressed it is often a simple-minded response to their own
suffering. It is ideological control by the rulers, and the opium of the
masses for the rest.
TonyaK9
Thank you.
I hope you're right.
BTW, is "cadhan" <diad...@finhall.demon.co.uk> one of your regulars
posters?
Regards,
TK9
cadhan
Go feed your dogs..
>
--
/\Cadhan
cadhan
TonyaK9 <Ton...@excite.com> writes
I not disputing with you in SCI, its not mannerly... Which group are
trolling from? I'll subscribe and carry on from there...
>
>
>
--
/\Cadhan
TonyaK9
The trolling so far has been all yours, cadhan.
You have publicly accused me of racism in these forums, and you'll have to
put up or shut up here as well.
I have been fighting racism long enough to have my record stand against your
lies.
TK9
TonyaK9
And this man dares to accuse ME of trolling!
Does any know an Irish expression to describe "cadhan's" chutzpah?...
TK9
cadhan
TonyaK9
> In message <wX7qc.4650$SZ4....@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
> TonyaK9 <Ton...@excite.com> writes
> >
> >You have publicly accused me of racism in these forums, and you'll have
to
> >put up or shut up here as well.
> >I have been fighting racism long enough to have my record stand against
your
> >lies.
> >
> >TK9
>
> Paranoia? Tonya... :)
>
It was you who wrote: "2 weeks ago you publicly defamed an eminent Rabbi
simply because he does not share your rabid racist opinions", but you're
unable to prove your libel, and now you're desperately looking for a wiggle
room...
What a shameless lying bastard you have proven yourself to be instead,
cadhan.
TK9
OldWiseMan
>
> > What threads.
>
> Oh, let's say, holocaust denials...
Please give one example of this on s.c.irish
> I doubt very much that Riain's post was unprovoked.
On what do you base those doubts? If you're going to defend someone, you
might at least check out the evidence.
cadhan
TonyaK9 <Ton...@excite.com> writes
Did you or did you not state that the Rabbi Dan Cohen-Sherbok, Professor
of Judaism at Lampeter University, was a "fake" Rabbi...?
>
>
--
/\Cadhan
TonyaK9
>
> "TonyaK9" <Ton...@excite.com> wrote in message
> news:JE5qc.4503$SZ4....@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> >
> > > What threads.
> >
> > Oh, let's say, holocaust denials...
>
> Please give one example of this on s.c.irish
Sure, be my guest:
Subject: Re: JEWS ARE ALWAYS RIGHT
lonn...@aggressive.com (Darby Darjeeling) wrote in message
news:<ba1ddfeb.04050...@posting.google.com>...
"I think it's time to start worshipping the jews.The jews will complain
about oppression and injustice until everyone comes around to the jewish way
of thinking.Then the jews perform the very same insidious deeds. Well
that's okay because they are justified for all the oppression they have
recieved throughout history and they are just protecting themselves.Let's
not forget the holocaust trump card they are so fond of flagging at every
bend and turn.Remember politically correct is not correct unless it is in
accordance with the jewish way of thinking."
The same maggot wrote also (in the thread "The jews want Ireland too?" in
message news:<ba1ddfeb.04050...@posting.google.com>...
"First they exploited the suffering of their own people and lined their
pockets over the Holocaust and they are still making big money to this day
with grants charities and so forth."
Interestingly enough, these outbursts caused ... total silence from the
Irish...
> > I doubt very much that Riain's post was unprovoked.
>
> On what do you base those doubts? If you're going to defend someone, you
> might at least check out the evidence.
Let's go back to the root:
This thread has started as an outrage against one Irish openly anti-Semitic
"gentleman of luck" ( http://www.faughaballagh.com/ ). It was posted on
soc.culture.irish and caught to soc.culture.jewish and soc.culture.israel.
In regards to how widespread this Jew-hate among Irish population in
general, "Riain Barton" <ri...@earthlink.net> wrote:
"Really? He just represents what the majority of Irish people think and say
amongst themselves! I know I am an Irish citizen, and I know first hand the
hate of Jews from most Irish, and their pro-Arab-terror stance. Just look at
the hate mongering on irishantiwar.org and on from the Ireland Palestine
Solidarity Campaign and the Irish led Boycott Israel Campaign!!!
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Boycott_Ireland
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ireland-Israel-Solidarity
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Jewish_Ireland "
I do not know how the "majority" of Irish people think (I am often taken
aback by generalizations like that), but I know Riain Barton is not lying
about his Irish citizenship, and the links he provided address some truly
dusgusting trends in Irish political realities today. And the silence from
the Irish side is deafening...
TK9
TonyaK9
You insinuated that I "defamed" Dan Cohen-Sherbok because he does not share
MY "rabid racist opinions."
The truth is much simpler than that: the gentleman, whom you call "Rabbi"
does not share with JUDAISM what is the very essence of JUDAIC LAW, in that
he is an adherent of the so called "Messianic Judaism" (a pure,
unadulterated blasphemy as far as Judaism is concerned! This would be
equivalent to a Catholic priest declaring that only through following
prescriptions of Mohammed can a Christian soul be saved...)
That is what the Jewish people call "chutzpah."
He might be a decent writer and a college professor, and he's written his
"Pocket Idiot's Guide to Judaism" specifically for people like yourself, but
he certainly ain't no "Rabbi!"
You're over your head talking about things, which are far beyond your head,
cadhan. You'll do much better sticking to such subjects like "immaculate
conception", "the Trinity" et al...
TK9
Bóliath
> "OldWiseMan" wrote
>>"TonyaK9" wrote ...
>>
>>>>What threads.
>>>
>>>Oh, let's say, holocaust denials...
>>
>>Please give one example of this on s.c.irish
>
> Sure, be my guest:
> Subject: Re: JEWS ARE ALWAYS RIGHT
> lonn...@aggressive.com (Darby Darjeeling) wrote in message
> news:<ba1ddfeb.04050...@posting.google.com>...
> The same maggot wrote also (in the thread "The jews want Ireland too?" in
> message news:<ba1ddfeb.04050...@posting.google.com>...
> Interestingly enough, these outbursts caused ... total silence from the
> Irish...
Because that poster is a troll and most everyone has them killfiled.
>>>I doubt very much that Riain's post was unprovoked.
>>
>>On what do you base those doubts? If you're going to defend someone, you
>>might at least check out the evidence.
>
> Let's go back to the root:
>
> This thread has started as an outrage against one Irish openly anti-Semitic
> "gentleman of luck" ( http://www.faughaballagh.com/ ). It was posted on
> soc.culture.irish and caught to soc.culture.jewish and soc.culture.israel.
Again a troll and an American one at that, do you have trolls in your
regular newsgroups? Do you challenge them or killfile them?
TonyaK9
"Bóliath" <boliat...@yahooNOSPAM.com> wrote in message
news:c8b9jk$ln8$1...@news.fas.harvard.edu...
That depends.
But I'll take your word for it.
How about those Irish campaigns, about which Riain has provided his links?
Do these capmaigns represent a popular mindset in Ireland?
Regards,
TK9
GoldenArse
> That depends.
> But I'll take your word for it.
> How about those Irish campaigns, about which Riain has provided his links?
> Do these capmaigns represent a popular mindset in Ireland?
> Regards,
> TK9
>
>
NO.
GoldenArse
SCI Divine Profit
TonyaK9
Thank you, GoldenArse.
Let's hope you're right.
You folks must understand that there are real reasons why the Jewish people
are wondering about what's going on in Ireland .
In the article of July 15, 2003, named "Anti-Semitism in Ireland", The
Telegraph recalled, in an editorial, the long association of Ireland with
anti-Semitism: Arthur Griffith, the founder of Sinn Fein, was blatantly
anti-semitic; Sean Russell, chief of staff of the IRA during the Second
World War, died on a German submarine and was buried at sea wrapped in the
swastika; Eamon de Valera, neutralist head of government during the Second
World War, objected when the Irish Independent printed pictures of Belsen
after the liberation of the camps; and Sean South, a republican hero of the
1956 border campaign, was also noted for his anti-Jewish sentiments.
Significantly, the Republic of Ireland was the last country in the EU to
allow Israel to establish an embassy on its soil.
The Wall Street Journal wrote in
http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110004398
"At this year's General Assembly, Ireland assumed the role of gatekeeper,
slamming the door in the face of a resolution to protect Jewish victims.
Ireland has shepherded resolutions on religious intolerance through U.N.
bodies for nearly 20 years without introducing anti-Semitism. In
mid-November current events prompted demands in the Irish Parliament for an
explanation of this omission from Foreign Minister Brian Cowen. The shabby
excuse offered at that time was to sacrifice Jewish rights on the U.N.'s
alter of 'consensus and a wide level of co-sponsorship.' In plain language,
to Ireland, Arab and Muslim opposition to condemning anti-Semitism meant . .
. cut and run! Irish unwillingness or inability to stand up for principle at
a time when it is assuming the Presidency of the European Union, does little
to enhance the credibility of either the U.N. or the EU as honest brokers in
the Middle East peace process. The behind-the-scenes story of this
Machiavellian plot involves an Irish breach of a deal struck between Foreign
Minister Cowen and Israeli Foreign Minister Silvan Shalom only two weeks
ago. Israel agreed to drop efforts to include 'anti-Semitism' in the
religious intolerance resolution in exchange for a promise from Ireland to
introduce a new resolution specifically on anti-Semitism. But after the
General Assembly's Third Committee adopted the resolution on religious
intolerance minus any reference to anti-Semitism, Ireland refused to carry
out its side of the bargain."
I wish these things and other of the kind were all not true and could be
dismissed with one two-letter word NO...
Regards,
TK9
cadhan
>> of Judaism at Lampeter University, was a "fake" Rabbi...?
>> /\Cadhan
>
>You insinuated that I "defamed" Dan Cohen-Sherbok because he does not share
>MY "rabid racist opinions."
>The truth is much simpler than that: the gentleman, whom you call "Rabbi"
>does not share with JUDAISM what is the very essence of JUDAIC LAW, in that
>he is an adherent of the so called "Messianic Judaism" (a pure,
>unadulterated blasphemy as far as Judaism is concerned! This would be
>equivalent to a Catholic priest declaring that only through following
>prescriptions of Mohammed can a Christian soul be saved...)
>That is what the Jewish people call "chutzpah."
>
>He might be a decent writer and a college professor, and he's written his
>"Pocket Idiot's Guide to Judaism" specifically for people like yourself, but
>he certainly ain't no "Rabbi!"
>
>You're over your head talking about things, which are far beyond your head,
>cadhan. You'll do much better sticking to such subjects like "immaculate
>conception", "the Trinity" et al...
People can make their own judgements...
>
Dan Cohn-Sherbok was born in Denver, Colorado and educated at Williams
College. He was ordained a Reform rabbi at the Hebrew Union
College-Jewish Institute of Religion where he gained a doctorate in
divinity. He served congregations in Jasper, Alabama; Galesburg,
Vilnius, Lithuania; Harrisburg, Pennsylvania; and Denver, Colorado.
Subsequently he was a rabbi in Melbourne, Australia; London, England;
and Johannesburg, South Africa. He received a doctorate in philosophy
from Cambridge University, England and from l975 taught Jewish theology
at the University of Kent, Canterbury. He has been Visiting Professor at
the University of Essex, University of Middlesex, University of St.
Andrew's, and the University of Illinois.
He is currently Professor of Judaism at the University of Wales at
Lampeter.
He is the author and editor of over 60 books including: On Earth as it
is in Heaven: Jews, Christians, and Liberation Theology; The Jewish
Heritage; Holocaust Theology; Issues in Contemporary Judaism; The
Blackwell Dictionary of Judaica; A Dictionary of Judaism and
Christianity; Israel: The History of an Idea; An Atlas of Jewish
History; The Jewish Faith; Judaism and Other Faiths; The Future of
Judaism; Jewish Mysticism: An Introduction; Jewish and Christian
Mysticism; Modern Judaism; The Jewish Messiah; Medieval Jewish
Philosophy: An Introduction; Fifty Key Jewish Thinkers; After Noah:
Animals and the Liberation of Theology; Islam in a World of Diverse
Faiths; World Religions and Human Liberation; The Concise Encyclopedia
of Judaism; Messianic Judaism; Understanding the Holocaust; Jews,
Christians and Religious Pluralism; The Palestine-Israeli Conflict.
Tonya...
While you have your head up there, look around for polyps, it could save
you a lot of health problems in later life.
>
My final comment...
>
>
--
/\Cadhan
TonyaK9
> >
> My final comment...
Of course you could think up a better one before meeting your Maker, cadhan,
but I guess this one will do.
Eulogy, anyone?
I don't think so...
TK9
OldWiseMan
>
> "OldWiseMan" <oldwis...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:2gsk15F...@uni-berlin.de...
> >
> > "TonyaK9" <Ton...@excite.com> wrote in message
> > news:JE5qc.4503$SZ4....@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> > >
> > > > What threads.
> > >
> > > Oh, let's say, holocaust denials...
> >
> > Please give one example of this on s.c.irish
>
> Sure, be my guest:
> Subject: Re: JEWS ARE ALWAYS RIGHT
> lonn...@aggressive.com (Darby Darjeeling) wrote in message
> news:<ba1ddfeb.04050...@posting.google.com>...
> "I think it's time to start worshipping the jews.The jews will complain
> about oppression and injustice until everyone comes around to the jewish
way
> of thinking.Then the jews perform the very same insidious deeds. Well
> that's okay because they are justified for all the oppression they have
> recieved throughout history and they are just protecting themselves.Let's
> not forget the holocaust trump card they are so fond of flagging at every
> bend and turn.Remember politically correct is not correct unless it is in
> accordance with the jewish way of thinking."
Maybe I'm blind but I can't see any holocaust denial in that post on the
contrary he identifies it as the Jews 'trump card'
Leaving that not unimportant point aside, Darby Darjeeling is hardly a sound
basis on which to judge the whole Irish nation:
a) He posts from the US, not Ireland
a) He only appeared in s.c.irish for the first time about 4 weeks ago
b) The only replies to any of his posts from s.c.irish regulars have been
derisory.
> The same maggot wrote also (in the thread "The jews want Ireland too?" in
> message news:<ba1ddfeb.04050...@posting.google.com>...
> "First they exploited the suffering of their own people and lined their
> pockets over the Holocaust and they are still making big money to this day
> with grants charities and so forth."
>
> Interestingly enough, these outbursts caused ... total silence from the
> Irish...
Because we generally don't bother much with blatant trolls.
> > > I doubt very much that Riain's post was unprovoked.
> >
> > On what do you base those doubts? If you're going to defend someone, you
> > might at least check out the evidence.
>
> Let's go back to the root:
>
> This thread has started as an outrage against one Irish openly
anti-Semitic
> "gentleman of luck" ( http://www.faughaballagh.com/ ). It was posted on
> soc.culture.irish and caught to soc.culture.jewish and soc.culture.israel.
To which 4 posters replied (John P. Mullan, Alliekatt, Goldenarse and Wild
Colonial Boy) each of them disparaging the site and discussing how to
complain to the ISP. Where's the provocation in that which caused Riain
Barton to go on his anti-Irish rant?
> In regards to how widespread this Jew-hate among Irish population in
> general, "Riain Barton" <ri...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> "Really? He just represents what the majority of Irish people think and
say
> amongst themselves! I know I am an Irish citizen, and I know first hand
the
> hate of Jews from most Irish, and their pro-Arab-terror stance. Just look
at
> the hate mongering on irishantiwar.org and on from the Ireland Palestine
> Solidarity Campaign and the Irish led Boycott Israel Campaign!!!
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Boycott_Ireland
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ireland-Israel-Solidarity
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Jewish_Ireland "
>
> I do not know how the "majority" of Irish people think (I am often taken
> aback by generalizations like that),
As you should be and I'm surprised at you defending someone who takes that
approach.
>but I know Riain Barton is not lying
> about his Irish citizenship,
One person accused him of not being Irish and has since apologised.
>and the links he provided address some truly
> dusgusting trends in Irish political realities today.
FFS, you consider Yahoo groups to be a reliable indication of Irish
attitudes? (Or any nation's attitudes, for that matter)
>And the silence from
> the Irish side is deafening...
We're reasonably sensible and mature adults on s.c.irish (well, most of us
are, most of the time) and we generally don't get overly excited about
looney websites by individuals who obviously have a screw loose.
OldWiseMan
But he has to accept that a lot of people in Ireland (like most countries)
do not agree with Israel's treatment of the Palestinians and that such
disagreement does not inherently reflect anti-Semitic attitudes.
TonyaK9
The provocations, as I have shown above, existed, and the fact that you have
attributed such provocations to trolls, can hardly explain why Riain's
outrage against these provocations was not justified.
So far I can take in stride everything you've written, OldWiseMan. But I
wasn't asking exclusively about Irish attitudes expressed at
soc.culture.irish. I understood Riain's outburst as a reaction to what he,
AS A JEWISH CITIZEN OF IRELAND, felt was a popular attitude toward Jewish
people. I am an outsider, but I've been in many countries around the world,
and my ear is attuned to the voices of pain, which is how I percieved
Riain's post. That is why I was asking questions about the links provided by
Riain, as well as other things in recent history, indicating that not
everything is quite right with Irish attitudes toward Jewish people and
toward Israel as the National Home of Jews.
If I am misreading this information, I am willing to apologize.
But somehow the wealth of information from various sources tells me Riain's
pain has not unfounded.
Regards,
TK9
Susan Cohen
"westprog" <west...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:u21qc.8060$qP2....@news.indigo.ie...
>
> If he wanted to stick around, he could read a lot of Irish people talking
> about what bastards the IRA are. That's not to say that they don't have
> support; there are pro-IRA posters from the USA, Australia, New Zealand
etc.
Some Irish Americans have a *lot* to answer for....
Susan
GoldenArse
> But he has to accept that a lot of people in Ireland (like most countries)
> do not agree with Israel's treatment of the Palestinians and that such
> disagreement does not inherently reflect anti-Semitic attitudes.
>
>
gubmit's actions or policies is immediately labelled a anti-whatever.
Jaysus, I think the war in Iraq is awful and so I'm anti-American. Anyone
who thinks Israel is hosing the Palestinians is an anti-semite. What shite.
GoldenArse
SCI AntiChrist
GoldenArse
> If I am misreading this information, I am willing to apologize.
> But somehow the wealth of information from various sources tells me
Riain's
> pain has not unfounded.
>
> Regards,
>
> TK9
>
>
>
I doubt he's Jewish. I'd say he's a Yank wit an Irish passport thus giving
him the right to give out on all things Irish.
GoldenArse
SCI Passport Ta Bliss
Susan Cohen
"Terry" <terr...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:iunga090efjtuvet2...@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 17 May 2004 05:52:55 GMT, "Susan Cohen" <fla...@verizon.net>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Terry" <terr...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:lkkfa0l430q2unta3...@4ax.com...
> >> On Sun, 16 May 2004 20:35:58 GMT, "Riain Barton"
> >> <ri...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> >And you are talking out of your arse and out of context and about two
> >> >different time periods and two-different IRA's!!!!!
> >> >
> >> >The IRA, before the establishment of the Republic was not and is not
the
> >> >same PROVISIONAL IRA of Northern Ireland!
> >>
> >> Plus ca change...
> >>
> >> >You are trying to mix apples and orange -- and doing so shows your
> >prejudice
> >> >against Jews and your JUDAEPHOBIA!
> >>
> >> It appears that almost anything anyone says about the Israel/Palestine
> >> issue indicates "the poster's prejudice against Jews and your
> >> JUDAEPHOBIA!"
> >>
> >> You can overuse that line, you know.
> >
> >It's hard to do - but I actually think he just did!!
>
> Yes, he did,
>
> >> >BRISCOE was just one of many PATRIOTIC IRISH-JEWS who served Ireland
with
> >> >HONOUR!
> >>
> >> And a very lucky man too that he was born at the right time for the
> >> "good" IRA, rather than the "bad" IRA.
> >>
> >> So were these Jewish terrorists, good terrorists or bad terrorists?
> >
> >Depends.
> >Which is worse: blowing up British Military Headquarters after giving a
> >warning, or shooting a pregnant woman and her 4 daughters?
>
> It certainly used to be the case that the targeting of other military
> forces was supposed to be the distinguishing feature. Today I see both
> state forces and irregulars targeting civilians and armed enemy
> forces, with at best a lack of concern for the civilian damage that
> ensues.
I assume you are not talking about Israel, now?
Because Israel is certainly trying her best to minimize civilian casualties.
Lets' face it: if Israel didn't care about civilias casulties, she'd just
carptet bomb their areas after any terrorist attack. & the problem would be
solved. And it would have been solved at least 30 years ago! But it's too
heinous for her to even contemplate.
Susan
>
> It's getting increasingly difficult to make any moral distinction
> between either, and all that seems to be left is a political
> distinction.
>
> And of course, political problems are best resolved politically. The
> moral distinction acting as no more than an impediment to that
> political resolution.
>
>
> Terry
TonyaK9
>
> But he has to accept that a lot of people in Ireland (like most countries)
> do not agree with Israel's treatment of the Palestinians and that such
> disagreement does not inherently reflect anti-Semitic attitudes.
Oh but it does. Too bad I have to start explaining things that should be
obvious for anyone concerned with truth.
'Palestinian" Arabs were not mistreated by Israel until Arafat gave his
orders for the second intifada and his own Fatah and affiliated gangs of
terrorists started the war of atrocious violence against Israeli civilian
population. As a matter of fact, it was Israel, who in the wake of the Oslo
agreements helped PA to organize their security forces and armed them,
hoping that they themselves will take care of suppressing the terrorists
among the Arab population on their territories. At that time, there were no
Israeli forces in the PA-controlled areas, no road blocks, most of the Arabs
worked inside Israel, earning wages far exceeding anything they could earn
either in Jordan or in Lebanon or in any other Arab country. By the year
2000, Yehud Barak made an offer of a "Palestinian" state to Arafat, with its
capital in a divided Jerusalem, and including over 95% of the territories!
It was rejected, because the goal of PLO is not to have the state living in
peace side-by-side with the Jewish state, but a complete dismantling of
Israel and creation of "Palestine from the River to the Sea."
It is terribly unfair and irresponsible to talk about Israel's "mistreatment
of the Palestinians" without the historic context of the Israeli-Arab
conflict, which has never been resolved, because Arab states keep their
"palestinian" brothers in refugee camps, using them as pawns of their war of
hatred against the Jewish state.
There are two faces to anti-Semitism: the old one, which is directed against
an individual Jew and his religion, and a new one, which denies the Jewish
people their right for a secure from violence National Home and which treats
Israel as a Jew among the nations.
Zionism is a liberation movement of the Jewish people. Israel has been
created by the people who escaped persecutions in the lands of Diaspora, who
came out of the ashes of the concentration camps. Whether Irish are willing
to understand it or not, the Jews are certain to never again allow to be
killed with impunity - Israel's existence is the guarantee of this promise,
that is why when people say they're not Jew-haters, just anti-Israel, we
know: there is no difference.
It does not mean Israeli governments cannot be criticized for this or that
particular policy - as long as equal measurements are equally applied to
other countries - but when the legitimacy of Israel as a state or legitimacy
of terrorist threats to Israeli people become a subject of argument - then
we know we're dealing with anti-Semitism.
Regards,
TK9
Susan Cohen
What we have here is nothing at all about race, but everything about
religion.
According to many Jews, a Reform rabbi is not a rabbi at all.
And to reform Jews - get ready for the irony - ny Jew who believes in Jesus
is not longer a Jew - but (more irony!) those who consider him a fake rabbi
will still consider him Jewish - just a sinner.
Is you head spinning yet? :-)
Susan
TonyaK9
Read my response to the OldWiseMan on the subject.
It's all there, golden arse.
TK9
TonyaK9
You are wrong, but even that's irrelevant.
You have chosen to snip out the TRUE information proving Riain's point were
correct, and instead came with a totally different discussion about the
origins of Riain's passport or his religious affiliation.
I don't know about soc.culture.irish, but in soc.culture.jewish, we call
this tactics trolling.
Do you have anything substantive to say about my post above? Than say it. If
you don't, it's all right to abstain from responding.
Si tacuisses, philosophus mansisses.
TK9
OldWiseMan
> So far I can take in stride everything you've written, OldWiseMan. But I
> wasn't asking exclusively about Irish attitudes expressed at
> soc.culture.irish. I understood Riain's outburst as a reaction to what he,
> AS A JEWISH CITIZEN OF IRELAND, felt was a popular attitude toward Jewish
> people.
I don't think you can generalise about any nation's attitudes on the basis
of one person's experience. Riain comes across as someone who is overly
sensitive to criticism and possibly even leg pulling. He talks elsewhere
about a bad experience with a crowd of guys in a pub insulting him. I wasn't
there so perhaps he was, but it is an old Irish custom to slag people off -
I've had many a slagging for being a 'culchie' - but our weird sense of
humour in Ireland usually means that we usually only slag people to their
face if we actually like or respect them!
> I am an outsider, but I've been in many countries around the world,
> and my ear is attuned to the voices of pain, which is how I percieved
> Riain's post. That is why I was asking questions about the links provided
by
> Riain, as well as other things in recent history, indicating that not
> everything is quite right with Irish attitudes toward Jewish people and
> toward Israel as the National Home of Jews.
>
> If I am misreading this information, I am willing to apologize.
> But somehow the wealth of information from various sources tells me
Riain's
> pain has not unfounded.
I shudder to think about the reliability of your sources if yahoo groups is
an example.Here are a couple of sites you might find interesting.
http://www.irishreader.com/Features/Shalom.htm
http://www.thewildgeese.com/pages/shalom2.html
I also remember a radio interview a few years ago with some senior Israeli
politician or figurehead (can't for the life of me remember who, maybe
someone else around here will remember) talking about his younger years in
Dublin and how pleasant it was for members of the Jewish community. He
specifically referred to how Jewish representation in politics, business and
general 'society' far exceeds Jewish percentage of the population.
OldWiseMan
>
> "OldWiseMan" <oldwis...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:2gsscaF...@uni-berlin.de...
> >
> > But he has to accept that a lot of people in Ireland (like most
countries)
> > do not agree with Israel's treatment of the Palestinians and that such
> > disagreement does not inherently reflect anti-Semitic attitudes.
>
> Oh but it does. Too bad I have to start explaining things that should be
> obvious for anyone concerned with truth.
I have great respect for the Jewish people, their religion and how they have
survived centuries of oppression, but because I disagree with their
treatment of Plaestinians I am anti-Semitic!
<sigh> and I thought arguing with IAM's was hard work :(
TonyaK9
I will take a look at the sites you have suggested, OldWiseMan.
I was sorry to see you simply dismissed Riain's reaction. Taking a few slugs
for being a 'culchie' does not even start to address what it must feel for
somebody being flamed by a hostile crowd for being an outsider. To
understand it, you might want to model this situation travelling one day to,
say, a restaurant in the Paris' Muslim suburbs, popular among the local
Muslims, and getting flamed by the crowd there after expressing your
beliefs...
Regards,
TK9
TonyaK9
I was surprised to find that someone who calls himself an OldWiseMan would
substitute sighs for a substantive answer to the consideration I've posted.
One last question to grade your own knowledge of the Middle East. It's a
small test of people's honesty:
If there were no further acts of terrorism from the Palestinians,
would there nonetheless be more Israeli tanks barrelling though
centers of Palestinian population and more Israeli targeted
assassinations of terrorist leaders?
Answer "No" and you're right. Regardless of any other disagreements
between us, you and I can argue amiably into the night.
Answer "Yes" and I'd rather not deal with you. You're misinformed,
and quite likely a bigot to boot.
Regards,
TK9
OldWiseMan
> I will take a look at the sites you have suggested, OldWiseMan.
> I was sorry to see you simply dismissed Riain's reaction.
I'm not dismissing it, as I pointed out, I wasn't there so can't judge, but
he does come across as over sensitive.
>Taking a few slugs
> for being a 'culchie' does not even start to address what it must feel for
> somebody being flamed by a hostile crowd for being an outsider. To
> understand it, you might want to model this situation travelling one day
to,
> say, a restaurant in the Paris' Muslim suburbs, popular among the local
> Muslims, and getting flamed by the crowd there after expressing your
> beliefs...
Well, during the 1970's when the troubles in Northern Ireland were at their
worst, I regularly travelled to the UK mainland on business and on several
occasions I was the only Irishman with a crowd of Englishmen just after an
IRA atrocity so I know first hand how sometimes this sort of situation can
be very uncomfortable, but that it can easily be a self-imposed discomfort.
TonyaK9
This is not a matter of the latest news item.
The Jews have been "self-imposing" our discomforts in Europe for millennia -
the memory is literally burnt in our genes. You and your countrymen might
call it overly sensitive, but for my people such a sensitivity often meant
survival...
A wise man should understand.
... I hope...
TK9
TonyaK9
>
>
> > I was surprised to find that someone who calls himself an OldWiseMan
would
> > substitute sighs for a substantive answer to the consideration I've
> posted.
> > One last question to grade your own knowledge of the Middle East. It's a
> > small test of people's honesty:
> >
> > If there were no further acts of terrorism from the Palestinians,
> > would there nonetheless be more Israeli tanks barrelling though
> > centers of Palestinian population and more Israeli targeted
> > assassinations of terrorist leaders?
> >
> > Answer "No" and you're right. Regardless of any other disagreements
> > between us, you and I can argue amiably into the night.
> >
> > Answer "Yes" and I'd rather not deal with you. You're misinformed,
> > and quite likely a bigot to boot.
> >
>
> problems and suggesting that it was a simple issue of getting the
> IRA to stop waging acts of terrorism.
OK, and now, Ladies and Gentlemen, we have the answer.
Vulpem pilum mutat, non mores.
Farewell.
OldWiseMan
> Farewell.
>
I'll settle for that if it means you're taking your odurate views away from
soc.culture.irish
JStewart
I never heard of them until he showed those links.
The Revd Terence Fformby-Smythe
>Suzy
Such as marrying jews...
Tickle Me Elmo
wrote:
>>
>> That's a stupid question, it's the same as discussing Irish/British
>> problems and suggesting that it was a simple issue of getting the
>> IRA to stop waging acts of terrorism.
>
>OK, and now, Ladies and Gentlemen, we have the answer.
>Vulpem pilum mutat, non mores.
>
>Farewell.
As I posted elsewhere in this thread:
**
Apparently you weren't aware that Yitzak Shamir, the leader of LEHI,
took the nom de guerre Michael Collins.
Shamir said he was "neutral" about the IRA's 1984 bombing of a hotel
in Brighton despite the fact that Margaret Thatcher was overtly
pro-Israel.
"It's a question of the battle for freedom," he said.
**
On the basis of the above I'm sure you'll lay the same condemnation on
Shamir as you lay on OldWiseMan, unless you wish to expose yourself as
a craven hypocrite.
Btw. if you bother to look at any of OldWiseMan's posts you'll see he
is an opponent of the IRA and their tactics.
Susan Cohen
>
> But he has to accept that a lot of people in Ireland (like most countries)
> do not agree with Israel's treatment of the Palestinians and that such
> disagreement does not inherently reflect anti-Semitic attitudes.
Yes, most countries have shown themselves to be both ignorant and
hypocritical in their opinions on Israel.
I used to think it was oil - now I wonder if it isn't fear of attack....?
Susan
>
>
Susan Cohen
Not "anyone" who thinks so.
Just anyone who only picks on Israel &/or doesn't have the facts, but
insists on making the claims.
Susan
Susan Cohen
>
> Just like Ireland, the acts of terrorism in Israel are the symptom of the
> real problem
No, it;s *not* "like Ireland".
which is that you have two opposing cultures which will *both*
> have to make concesssions if you are ever to find a way of living in
peace.
& this is where you show yourself to be very ignorant of what has gone on
over there.
Israel has made *all* the concessions.
After Oslo (for instance), the terrorism *increased* because the PLO said
"Hey, we're winning - they're making concessions."
The PLO has NEVER made ANY concessions - they have not even ever lived up to
anything they;'e signed & agreed to!
Susan
OldWiseMan
"Susan Cohen" <fla...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:BHgqc.136827$G_....@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...
>
> "OldWiseMan" <oldwis...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:2gt2adF...@uni-berlin.de...
> >
> > Just like Ireland, the acts of terrorism in Israel are the symptom of
the
> > real problem
>
> No, it;s *not* "like Ireland".
>
> which is that you have two opposing cultures which will *both*
> > have to make concesssions if you are ever to find a way of living in
> peace.
>
> & this is where you show yourself to be very ignorant of what has gone on
> over there.
> Israel has made *all* the concessions.
You should get in touch with a guy we have here called Ian Paisley, his
attitude to conflict resolution is startlingly similar to yours.
cadhan
<fla...@verizon.net> writes
Who gave you a candle at this funeral?
>
>
--
/\Cadhan
cadhan
>>> College. He was ordained a Reform rabbi
>>
>>What we have here is nothing at all about race, but everything about
>>religion.
>>According to many Jews, a Reform rabbi is not a rabbi at all.
>>And to reform Jews - get ready for the irony - ny Jew who believes in Jesus
>>is not longer a Jew - but (more irony!) those who consider him a fake rabbi
>>will still consider him Jewish - just a sinner.
>>
>>Is you head spinning yet? :-)
>>
>>Susan
>
>Who gave you a candle at this funeral?
I realise on re-reading that you were not being unpleasant...
My apologies...
>>
>>
>
--
/\Cadhan
Terry
wrote:
>> >> So were these Jewish terrorists, good terrorists or bad terrorists?
>> >
>> >Depends.
>> >Which is worse: blowing up British Military Headquarters after giving a
>> >warning, or shooting a pregnant woman and her 4 daughters?
>>
>> It certainly used to be the case that the targeting of other military
>> forces was supposed to be the distinguishing feature. Today I see both
>> state forces and irregulars targeting civilians and armed enemy
>> forces, with at best a lack of concern for the civilian damage that
>> ensues.
>
>I assume you are not talking about Israel, now?
I'm talking generally, but the point applies as much in the case of
Israel/Palestine as it does anywhere else that people play the "who
did what to whom" and "we're more moral than them" games.
>Because Israel is certainly trying her best to minimize civilian casualties.
>Lets' face it: if Israel didn't care about civilias casulties, she'd just
>carptet bomb their areas after any terrorist attack. & the problem would be
>solved.
Israel is obviously doing much more damage to the Palestinians than
the Palestinians can ever do to Israelis and not only in terms of
violence but also in terms of the humiliated circumstances to which
they've been reduced. Palestinians now have very little left to lose,
not even their homes most of them.
You either want to live in peace or you don't. And I expect that
ultimately most ordinary Israelis want to live in peace rather than be
at war all their lives never knowing where or when they might be
attacked. Of course there are always some who get their rocks off in
such circumstances, particularly those who don't live in Israel,
shouting from the sidelines.
If you do want to live in peace then there's a way of going about it.
Only Israel can break the cycle because it is the dominant and better
organized party. It might even have to take a few extra hits in the
initial stages but in the long run everyone will be better off.
Terry
cadhan
TonyaK9 <Ton...@excite.com> writes>news:X6ZgWNEw...@finhall.demon.co.uk...
>> In message <mh8qc.4680$SZ4....@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
>> TonyaK9 <Ton...@excite.com> writes>> >news:T6ShmjAc...@finhall.demon.co.uk...
>> >> In message <wX7qc.4650$SZ4....@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
>> >> TonyaK9 <Ton...@excite.com> writes
>> >> >
>> >> >The trolling so far has been all yours, cadhan.
>> >> >You have publicly accused me of racism in these forums, and
>> >> > you'll have to put up or shut up here as well.
>> >> >I have been fighting racism long enough to have my record
>> >> >stand against your lies.
>> >> >
>> >> >TK9
>> >>
>> >> Paranoia? Tonya... :)
>> >>
>> >Nope - simple dishonesty of Cadhan is what's we're
>> >discussing here.
>> >It was you who wrote: "2 weeks ago you publicly defamed
>> >an eminent Rabbi simply because he does not share your
>> >rabid racist opinions", but you're unable to prove your libel,
>> >and now you're desperately looking for a wiggle
>> >room...
>> >What a shameless lying bastard you have proven yourself to
>> >be instead, cadhan.
>> >
>> >TK9
>>
>> Did you or did you not state that the Rabbi Dan Cohen-Sherbok, Professor
>> of Judaism at Lampeter University, was a "fake" Rabbi...?
>> /\Cadhan
>
>You insinuated that I "defamed" Dan Cohen-Sherbok because he does not share
>MY "rabid racist opinions."
>The truth is much simpler than that: the gentleman, whom you call "Rabbi"
>does not share with JUDAISM what is the very essence of JUDAIC LAW, in that
>he is an adherent of the so called "Messianic Judaism" (a pure,
>unadulterated blasphemy as far as Judaism is concerned! This would be
>equivalent to a Catholic priest declaring that only through following
>prescriptions of Mohammed can a Christian soul be saved...)
>That is what the Jewish people call "chutzpah."
>
>He might be a decent writer and a college professor, and he's written his
>"Pocket Idiot's Guide to Judaism" specifically for people like yourself, but
>he certainly ain't no "Rabbi!"
>
>You're over your head talking about things, which are far beyond your head,
>cadhan. You'll do much better sticking to such subjects like "immaculate
>conception", "the Trinity" et al...
>
<YAWN> Plonk!
>
>
>
>
--
/\Cadhan
westprog
> > If he wanted to stick around, he could read a lot of Irish people
talking
> > about what bastards the IRA are. That's not to say that they don't have
> > support; there are pro-IRA posters from the USA, Australia, New Zealand
> etc.
> Some Irish Americans have a *lot* to answer for....
I can think of one in particular.
C/
SOTW: "Lift Your Razor High" - Sondheim
Morrissey Breen
to be clever in message
news:<qkPpc.12938$KE6...@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>...
>
> Really? He just represents what the majority of Irish people think and say
> amongst themselves! I know I am an Irish citizen, and I know first hand the
> hate of Jews from most Irish, and their pro-Arab-terror stance.
You disgusting bigot. The Irish people KNOW what it is like to suffer
at the hands of an occupying military force. Naturally, they identify
with the oppression of the Palestinians, which of course is far, far
worse than even the Irish have experienced.
>
> Just look at the hate mongering on irishantiwar.org
How exactly is opposing war "hate mongering"?
>
> and on from the Ireland Palestine
> Solidarity Campaign and the Irish led Boycott Israel Campaign!!!
Two things for you to think about, moron:
1) Israel is a pariah state right around the world: why do you think
that is?
2) Why do you talk so rabidly about "pro-Arab-terror" yet ignore the
daily terror carried out by the genocidal Israeli state?
TonyaK9
"Morrissey Breen" <morriss...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:fb3a0456.04051...@posting.google.com...
> Someone called "Riain Barton" <ri...@earthlink.net> tries, unwisely,
> to be clever in message
> news:<qkPpc.12938$KE6...@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>...
> >
> > Really? He just represents what the majority of Irish people think and
say
> > amongst themselves! I know I am an Irish citizen, and I know first hand
the
> > hate of Jews from most Irish, and their pro-Arab-terror stance.
>
> You disgusting bigot. The Irish people KNOW what it is like to suffer
> at the hands of an occupying military force. Naturally, they identify
> with the oppression of the Palestinians, which of course is far, far
> worse than even the Irish have experienced.
No need for that many words even: the IRA terrorist bunch easily identifies
with the bunch of other bloody terrorist gang - the pallies.
If anyone needed any proof that anti-Semitism is alive and thriving in
Ireland, this Breen's message provides plenty of it.
"Palestinian" terrorism predates the "occupation" by forty years or more!
For three-quarters of a century, the Arab-Israeli war has been between Arab
nations dedicated to genocidal aggression against civilians on one hand and
the Jewish state determined to protect its civilian population by taking
defensive actions directed against military targets on the other hand. This
war, in which the Arab side has consistently, illegally, and aggressively
targeted civilians, and Israeli side has consistently, lawfully, and
defensively responded by attacking military targets, began in 1929 with the
well-planned and carefully coordinated massacre of sixty Jewish children,
women, old people, and other unarmed civilian residents of the biblical city
of Hebron, in which Jews had lived peacefully and continually from time
immemorial. The victims of the crime against humanity included many Jews who
were not Zionists or settlers. The 1929 massacre was a harbinger of civilian
massacres to come - much like Kristallnacht nine years later, which
portended the Holocaust. It was also the first instance in Palestine of
"ethnic cleansing," as all Jews of Hebron were either murdered or
transferred out of the city in which Jews had lived for millennia.
Between 1948 and 1967, Palestinian fedayeen sponseored by Egypt and Syria
murdered Israeli civilians in hundreds of cross-border raids. These murders
took place before Israel occupied any "Palestinian" land or built any
settlements outside of the area it controlled pursuant to the UN partition
and the cease-fire that followed the 1948 attack against the newly
established Jewish state.
In 1967 war, every single Arab army - including the Egyptian, Syrian,
Palestinian, Jordanian, and Iraqi armies - targeted Israeli civilian
population centers in violation of the laws of war. Syrian artillery and
MIGs opened fire on Israeli towns, kibuttzim, and moshavim, including
Degania. Jordan rained 6,000 shells on western Jerusalem and the suburbs of
Tel Aviv, while its Hawker Hunter fighters dropped bombs on Netania, Kfar
Sirkin, and Kfar Saba. Iraqi planes strafed Nahalal, Afula, and civilian
communities in the Jezreel Valley.
Damascus radio bragged that the Syrian air force was bombing Israeli cities.
Jordanian forces were instructed to "destroy all buildings and kill everyone
present," including civilians, if they captured portions of Jerusalem.
Palestinian battle plans icluded the destruction of Israel and its
inhabitants. Egyptian battle plans included the massacre of Tel Aviv's
civilian population as the first step toward "the destruction of Israel."
Posters in Cairo showed "Arab soldiers shooting, crushing, strangling and
dismembering bearded, hook-nosed Jews." (Oren, page 92) As Naser put it, "If
war comes it will be total and the objective will be Israel's destruction."
(Ibid, page 93)
In sharp contrast, Israel did not target innocent civilians, although it
certainly had the capacity to retaliate against the bombing of its civilian
population centers. Israel threatened to bomb Amman and Damascus during the
1967 war if Jordanian and Syrian forces [ersisted in bombing Israeli cities,
but it never did so. It bombed air bases, tank convoys, and other legitimate
military targets, despite its enemies' targeting of Israeli civilians
throughout the short war. In Oren's definitive account of the 1967 war, he
concluded that the number of casualties among Arab civilians was "remarkably
low" because Israel's military actions were conducted "far from major
population centers."
Since the end of the 1967 war, the entire focus of "Palestinian" aggression
has been on civilians, both inside Israel and around the world. Global
terrorism began in 1968 not as a last resort against a long occupation but
as a first resort - really as a continuum of an illegal and immoral tactic
that had been continiously used by the Arabs against the Jews since the
beginning of the conflict. Targeting civilians was not the result of the
occupation. To the contrary, the occupation was the result - at least in
part - of a long Arab history of massacring civilians.
To be sure, "Palestinian" civilians have died in the seventy-three-year-long
war, but their numbers have been infinitessimal in comparison with the
number of "Palestinians" and Arabs killed by Jordan, Syria, Iraq, and Iran
during the same period. Even comparing innocent Israeli civilian casualties
with "Palestinian casualties reveals that Israel has acted with restraint.
(Alan Dershowitz, The Case for Israel, Chapter 20, also see "An Engineered
Tragedy", http://www.ict.org.il/articles/articledet.cfm?articleid=439 and
http://www.ict.org.il/articles/articledet.cfm?articleid=440 )
Susan Cohen
Ad hominem & lies will only show that you have nothing to disprove what I am
saying.
Susan
>
>
Susan Cohen
Jesus
> >is not longer a Jew - but (more irony!) those who consider him a fake
rabbi
> >will still consider him Jewish - just a sinner.
> >
> >Is you head spinning yet? :-)
> >
> >Susan
>
> Who gave you a candle at this funeral?
If you don't like it, take out scj & out me on ignore.
Susan
> >
> >
>
> --
> /\Cadhan
>
>
>
Susan Cohen
>
> >Who gave you a candle at this funeral?
>
> I realise on re-reading that you were not being unpleasant...
>
> My apologies...
> >>
But you could still cut out scj if you wanted.
Susan
Susan Cohen
"Terry" <terr...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:v6nja0hs0598cmqga...@4ax.com...
casualties.
> >Lets' face it: if Israel didn't care about civilias casulties, she'd just
> >carptet bomb their areas after any terrorist attack. & the problem would
be
> >solved.
>
> Israel is obviously doing much more damage to the Palestinians than
> the Palestinians can ever do to Israelis
And the real point to be taken from this observation is that she *could* be
doing *MUCH MORE* & yet does not. Now, why is that? A clue can be gleaned
from the quote from Golda Meir: "We may forgive the enemy for killing our
sons, but we will never forgive them for making our sons kill their sons."
and not only in terms of
> violence but also in terms of the humiliated circumstances
Oh, never mind.
The minute I see this buzzword, I know that I'm not talking to someone with
a balanced viewpoint.
And when I read the rest of your post, I can tell that, indeed, you don't
know what has been going on over there at all.
Susan
Mary Hogan
"Morrissey Breen" <morriss...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:fb3a0456.04051...@posting.google.com...
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
Riain Barton
FOR 2,000 YEARS! GET A FUCKING EDUCATION AND STOP BELIEVING WHAT THE
CATHOLIC CHURCH TAUGHT US -- TO HATE JEWS!
THE CHRISTIAN BROTHERS WERE THE TERRORISTS OF IRISH BOYS AND THE CHURCH TOOK
OVER WERE THE BRITS LEFT OFF! THEY BOTH TRIED TO KEEP US IRISH AS SLAVES TO
THEIR AUTHORITY!!!
"Morrissey Breen" <morriss...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:fb3a0456.04051...@posting.google.com...
cadhan
<fla...@verizon.net> writes
>
I didn't put it in... :-]
I'm beginning to think Tonya has a crush on me...
>
>
--
/\Cadhan
cadhan
Riain Barton <ri...@earthlink.net> writes
>Look you fucking wee git -- It was ISRAEL THAT WAS OCCUPIED BY OPPRESSORS
>FOR 2,000 YEARS! GET A FUCKING EDUCATION AND STOP BELIEVING WHAT THE
>CATHOLIC CHURCH TAUGHT US -- TO HATE JEWS!
>
>THE CHRISTIAN BROTHERS WERE THE TERRORISTS OF IRISH BOYS AND THE CHURCH TOOK
>OVER WERE THE BRITS LEFT OFF! THEY BOTH TRIED TO KEEP US IRISH AS SLAVES TO
>THEIR AUTHORITY!!!
Caps Lock stuck! Please lubricate!
>
>
>"Morrissey Breen" <morriss...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:fb3a0456.04051...@posting.google.com...
>> Someone called "Riain Barton" <ri...@earthlink.net> tries, unwisely,
>> to be clever in message
>> news:<qkPpc.12938$KE6...@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>...
>> >
>> > Really? He just represents what the majority of Irish people think and
>say
>> > amongst themselves! I know I am an Irish citizen, and I know first hand
>the
>> > hate of Jews from most Irish, and their pro-Arab-terror stance.
>>
>> You disgusting bigot. The Irish people KNOW what it is like to suffer
>> at the hands of an occupying military force. Naturally, they identify
>> with the oppression of the Palestinians, which of course is far, far
>> worse than even the Irish have experienced.
>>
>> >
>> > Just look at the hate mongering on irishantiwar.org
>>
>> How exactly is opposing war "hate mongering"?
>>
>> >
>> > and on from the Ireland Palestine
>> > Solidarity Campaign and the Irish led Boycott Israel Campaign!!!
>>
>> Two things for you to think about, moron:
>>
>> 1) Israel is a pariah state right around the world: why do you think
>> that is?
>>
>> 2) Why do you talk so rabidly about "pro-Arab-terror" yet ignore the
>> daily terror carried out by the genocidal Israeli state?
>
>
--
/\Cadhan
Riain Barton
well, too.
"cadhan" <diad...@finhall.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:LWVkr1E8...@finhall.demon.co.uk...
Tickle Me Elmo
<ri...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>Look you fucking wee git -- It was ISRAEL THAT WAS OCCUPIED BY OPPRESSORS
>FOR 2,000 YEARS! GET A FUCKING EDUCATION AND STOP BELIEVING WHAT THE
>CATHOLIC CHURCH TAUGHT US -- TO HATE JEWS!
^^^^
Us "Riain"? I thought you said you were Jewish?
You could at least try to keep your story straight old-chap ;-)
TonyaK9
"Tickle Me Elmo" <whis...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:utoka0tm08muoi057...@4ax.com...
Your post implies that a Irish citizen of Judaic faith is not considered to
have a right to say "us" about his countrymen???
Interesting revelation, and it proves, better than any explanations, that
Ireland has a problem with Jew-hate to cope with!
Tk9