Israel, Preferring War to Peace, Rejects Hamas Cease Fire Offer
peace.seeker.27
by Johann Hari
The Independent (U.K.)
Monday, 29 December 2008
The world isn't just watching the Israeli government commit a crime in
Gaza; we are watching it self-harm. This morning, and tomorrow
morning, and every morning until this punishment beating ends, the
young people of the Gaza Strip are going to be more filled with hate,
and more determined to fight back, with stones or suicide vests or
rockets. Israeli leaders have convinced themselves that the harder you
beat the Palestinians, the softer they will become. But when this is
over, the rage against Israelis will have hardened, and the same old
compromises will still be waiting by the roadside of history, untended
and unmade.
To understand how frightening it is to be a Gazan this morning, you
need to have stood in that small slab of concrete by the Mediterranean
and smelled the claustrophobia. The Gaza Strip is smaller than the
Isle of Wight but it is crammed with 1.5 million people who can never
leave. They live out their lives on top of each other, jobless and
hungry, in vast, sagging tower blocks. From the top floor, you can
often see the borders of their world: the Mediterranean, and Israeli
barbed wire. When bombs begin to fall – as they are doing now with
more deadly force than at any time since 1967 – there is nowhere to
hide.
There will now be a war over the story of this war. The Israeli
government says, "We withdrew from Gaza in 2005 and in return we got
Hamas and Qassam rockets being rained on our cities. Sixteen civilians
have been murdered. How many more are we supposed to sacrifice?" It is
a plausible narrative, and there are shards of truth in it, but it is
also filled with holes. If we want to understand the reality and
really stop the rockets, we need to rewind a few years and view the
run-up to this war dispassionately.
The Israeli government did indeed withdraw from the Gaza Strip in 2005
– in order to be able to intensify control of the West Bank. Ariel
Sharon's senior adviser, Dov Weisglass, was unequivocal about this,
explaining: "The disengagement [from Gaza] is actually formaldehyde.
It supplies the amount of formaldehyde that is necessary so that there
will not be a political process with the Palestinians... this whole
package that is called the Palestinian state has been removed from our
agenda indefinitely."
Ordinary Palestinians were horrified by this, and by the fetid
corruption of their own Fatah leaders, so they voted for Hamas. It
certainly wouldn't have been my choice – an Islamist party is
antithetical to all my convictions - but we have to be honest. It was
a free and democratic election, and it was not a rejection of a two-
state solution. The most detailed polling of Palestinians, by the
University of Maryland, found that 72 per cent want a two-state
solution on the 1967 borders, while fewer than 20 per cent want to
reclaim the whole of historic Palestine. So, partly in response to
this pressure, Hamas offered Israel a long, long ceasefire and a de
facto acceptance of two states, if only Israel would return to its
legal borders.
Rather than seize this opportunity and test Hamas's sincerity, the
Israeli government reacted by punishing the entire civilian
population. It announced that it was blockading the Gaza Strip in
order to "pressure" its people to reverse the democratic process. The
Israelis surrounded the Strip and refused to let anyone or anything
out. They let in a small trickle of food, fuel and medicine – but not
enough for survival. Weisglass quipped that the Gazans were being "put
on a diet". According to Oxfam, only 137 trucks of food were allowed
into Gaza last month to feed 1.5 million people. The United Nations
says poverty has reached an "unprecedented level." When I was last in
besieged Gaza, I saw hospitals turning away the sick because their
machinery and medicine was running out. I met hungry children
stumbling around the streets, scavenging for food.
It was in this context – under a collective punishment designed to
topple a democracy – that some forces within Gaza did something
immoral: they fired Qassam rockets indiscriminately at Israeli cities.
These rockets have killed 16 Israeli citizens. This is abhorrent:
targeting civilians is always murder. But it is hypocritical for the
Israeli government to claim now to speak out for the safety of
civilians when it has been terrorising civilians as a matter of state
policy.
The American and European governments are responding with a lop-
sidedness that ignores these realities. They say that Israel cannot be
expected to negotiate while under rocket fire, but they demand that
the Palestinians do so under siege in Gaza and violent military
occupation in the West Bank.
Before it falls down the memory hole, we should remember that last
week, Hamas offered a ceasefire in return for basic and achievable
compromises. Don't take my word for it. According to the Israeli
press, Yuval Diskin, the current head of the Israeli security service
Shin Bet, "told the Israeli cabinet [on 23 December] that Hamas is
interested in continuing the truce, but wants to improve its terms."
Diskin explained that Hamas was requesting two things: an end to the
blockade, and an Israeli ceasefire on the West Bank. The cabinet –
high with election fever and eager to appear tough – rejected these
terms.
The core of the situation has been starkly laid out by Ephraim Halevy,
the former head of Mossad. He says that while Hamas militants – like
much of the Israeli right-wing – dream of driving their opponents
away, "they have recognised this ideological goal is not attainable
and will not be in the foreseeable future." Instead, "they are ready
and willing to see the establishment of a Palestinian state in the
temporary borders of 1967." They are aware that this means they "will
have to adopt a path that could lead them far from their original
goals" – and towards a long-term peace based on compromise.
The rejectionists on both sides – from Mahmoud Ahmadinejad of Iran to
Bibi Netanyahu of Israel – would then be marginalised. It is the only
path that could yet end in peace but it is the Israeli government that
refuses to choose it. Halevy explains: "Israel, for reasons of its
own, did not want to turn the ceasefire into the start of a diplomatic
process with Hamas."
Why would Israel act this way? The Israeli government wants peace, but
only one imposed on its own terms, based on the acceptance of defeat
by the Palestinians. It means the Israelis can keep the slabs of the
West Bank on "their" side of the wall. It means they keep the largest
settlements and control the water supply. And it means a divided
Palestine, with responsibility for Gaza hived off to Egypt, and the
broken-up West Bank standing alone. Negotiations threaten this vision:
they would require Israel to give up more than it wants to. But an
imposed peace will be no peace at all: it will not stop the rockets or
the rage. For real safety, Israel will have to talk to the people it
is blockading and bombing today, and compromise with them.
The sound of Gaza burning should be drowned out by the words of the
Israeli writer Larry Derfner. He says: "Israel's war with Gaza has to
be the most one-sided on earth... If the point is to end it, or at
least begin to end it, the ball is not in Hamas's court – it is in
ours."
AirRaid Mach 2.5
their children.
Leave none alive.
drref
"peace.seeker.27" <vesuvian.d...@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:fbd8bfbb-667c-47cb...@p29g2000vbn.googlegroups.com...
Al Smith
> Israeli government reacted by punishing the entire civilian
> population. It announced that it was blockading the Gaza Strip in
> order to "pressure" its people to reverse the democratic process. The
> Israelis surrounded the Strip and refused to let anyone or anything
> out.
This is the key to understanding the present situation in Gaza.
Hamas was elected in a democratic election, that had been encouraged
by America and Israel. This was unexpected, and unwanted, by Israel.
Israel responded by doing everything in its power to force
Palestinians to repudiate their own democratic election process, and
they have failed.
Israel has caused all the suffering and terror that has resulted
from their bad decision to attempt to overturn, by brute force, the
democratic election of Hamas.
-Al-
drahcir
wrote:
<snip>
The Gaza Strip is smaller than the
> Isle of Wight but it is crammed with 1.5 million people
For the love of mike, won't someone please stop the steaming bullshit?
Population density of Gaza 4,118/km2
Population density of Mumbai 22,658/km2
Delhi 26276
Jakarta 12738
Dhaka 43752
Unlike the others, the arabs CHOOSE to be where they are for political
reasons. They could have been absorbed into other arab nations long
ago.
> http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/johann-...
Sheldon Liberman
You forgot the part about how Palestinians used their vote to elect a
party whose raison d'etre is the destruction of Israel. You reap what
you sow.
TUKA
> The true story behind this war is not the one Israel is telling
> by Johann Hari
> The Independent (U.K.)
> Monday, 29 December 2008
>
> The world isn't just watching the Israeli government commit a crime in
> Gaza; we are watching it self-harm.
And they call themselves "the Independent"?
--
Being against torture ought to be sort of a bipartisan thing.
-- Karl Lehenbauer
Al Smith
Palestinians used their votes to elect the party they wanted to have
governing them. It's called the democratic process. Who they chose
to elect for themselves was none of Israel's damned business.
-Al-
drref
For the love of mike, won't someone please stop the steaming bullshit?
Population density of Gaza 4,118/km2
Population density of Mumbai 22,658/km2
Delhi 26276
Jakarta 12738
Dhaka 43752
Unlike the others, the arabs CHOOSE to be where they are for political
reasons. They could have been absorbed into other arab nations long
ago.
Bless you for a ray of fact.
drref
Hamas founding charter
a.. Article 7 of the Hamas Covenant states the following: "The Day of
Judgement will not come about until Muslems fight the Jews (killing the
Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees
will say O Muslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him.
Only the Gharkad tree, (the Cedar tree) would not do that because it is one
of the trees of the Jews." (related by al-Bukhari and Muslem).
a.. Article 22 claims that the French revolution, the Russian revolution,
colonialism and both world wars were created by the Zionists. It also claims
the Freemasons and Rotary clubs are Zionist fronts.
"You may speak as much as you want about regional and world wars. They
were behind World War I, when they were able to destroy the Islamic
Caliphate, making financial gains and controlling resources. They obtained
the Balfour Declaration, formed the League of Nations through which they
could rule the world. They were behind World War II, through which they made
huge financial gains by trading in armaments, and paved the way for the
establishment of their state. It was they who instigated the replacement of
the League of Nations with the United Nations and the Security Council to
enable them to rule the world through them. There is no war going on
anywhere, without having their finger in it."[102]
a.. Furthermore, Article 32 of the Covenant makes reference to The
Protocols of the Elders of Zion:
"Today it is Palestine, tomorrow it will be one country or another. The
Zionist plan is limitless. After Palestine, the Zionists aspire to expand
from the Nile to the Euphrates. When they will have digested the region they
overtook, they will aspire to further expansion, and so on. Their plan is
embodied in the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion", and their present conduct
is the best proof of what we are saying."
Expressions by Hamas prominent figures and scholars
a.. A report by MEMRI from 2002 states that the Hamas monthly Falastin
Al-Muslima published a series of articles by Ibrahim Al-'Ali on how Allah
punished the Jews by transforming them into animals such as "apes, pigs,
mice, and lizards". According to MEMRI, the author stated that "The
transformation was actual" and not metaphoric.[103]
a.. In an editorial in The Guardian in January 2006, Khaled Meshaal, the
chief of Hamas's political bureau denied antisemitism:
"Our message to the Israelis is this: We do not fight you because you
belong to a certain faith or culture. Jews have lived in the Muslim world
for 13 centuries in peace and harmony; they are in our religion "the people
of the book" who have a covenant from God and his messenger, Muhammad (peace
be upon him), to be respected and protected."
"Our conflict with you is not religious but political. We have no problem
with Jews who have not attacked us — our problem is with those who came to
our land, imposed themselves on us by force, destroyed our society and
banished our people."[6]
a.. In an interview aired on Al-Aqsa TV on April 9, 2008, Hamas Culture
Minister Atallah Abu Al-Subh stated that "The Protocols of the Elders of
Zion is the faith that every Jew harbors in his heart".[104]
a.. In 2008 Imam Yousif al-Zahar of Hamas said in his sermon at the Katib
Wilayat mosque in Gaza that "Jews are a people who cannot be trusted. They
have been traitors to all agreements. Go back to history. Their fate is
their vanishing."[105][106]
a.. Sheik Yunus al-Astal, a Hamas legislator and imam, in a column in the
weekly newspaper Al Risalah in 2008 discussed a Koranic verse suggesting
that "suffering by fire is the Jews' destiny in this world and the next."
Astal concluded "Therefore we are sure that the Holocaust is still to come
upon the Jews.[105][106]
a.. "We will not rest until we destroy the Zionist entity" said Hamas
leader Fathi Hammad in Gaza on Friday January 2nd 2009 - quoted by the BBC
and numerous media sources. [3]
Holocaust denial
a.. According to MEMRI, In 2003 Hamas leader Abdel Aziz Rantisi published
an article in the Hamas weekly Al-Risala in which he called the Holocaust
"the false Holocaust" and "the greatest of lies". In this article Rantisi
expressed support to Holocaust deniers Roger Garaudy, David Irving, Gerd
Honsik, and Fredrick Töben, and to the idea that the gas chambers were a
myth. Rantisi also stated that "the Nazis received tremendous financial aid
from the Zionist banks and monopolies, and this contributed to their rise to
power", and accused the Jewish owned Berlin-based investment bank
Mendelssohn & Co. of funding the Nazis, calling it a "Zionist bank".[107]
a.. In 2005, Khaled Mashaal described Ahmadinejad's Holocaust denial as
"courageous" and stated that "...Muslim people will defend Iran because it
voices what they have in their hearts, in particular the Palestinian
people."[108]
peace.seeker.27
> so I read the whole article, and no where is there a peace offer.
drref has a reading comprehension deficiency. Here is the ceasefire
offer in the article:
'Hamas offered a ceasefire in return for basic and achievable
compromises. Don't take my word for it. According to the Israeli
press, Yuval Diskin, the current head of the Israeli security service
Shin Bet, "told the Israeli cabinet [on 23 December] that Hamas is
interested in continuing the truce, but wants to improve its terms."
Diskin explained that Hamas was requesting two things: an end to the
blockade, and an Israeli ceasefire on the West Bank. The cabinet –
high with election fever and eager to appear tough – rejected these
terms.'
> http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/johann-...
Sheldon Liberman
Just when you think the comments posted in this ng couldn't possibly
get any more idiotic, you come along. You're saying it's not Israel
business that a party dedicated to its destruction is voted in by its
neighbor?
>
> -Al-- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Al Smith
It's not the business of Israel to decide who gets democratically
elected by the Palestinians. That's their choice to make. It is
Israel's place to try to work constructively with whomever the
Palestinians choose to govern them. Israel did not do so. The
government of Israel thus failed the people of Israel, by attempting
to compel through intimidation the Palestinians to repudiate their
own elected officials. This attempt has failed and continues to
fail. It has cost the lives of many innocent human beings. It has
accomplished nothing of value for Israel.
-Al-
Sheldon Liberman
It may not be within Israel's purview to decide who becomes the ruling
party in Palestine, but it certainly is Israel's business what that
outcome is.
> That's their choice to make. It is
> Israel's place to try to work constructively with whomever the
> Palestinians choose to govern them. Israel did not do so.
How do you work constructive with an outfit that denies your right to
exist? That is actually dedicated to your destruction?
>The
> government of Israel thus failed the people of Israel, by attempting
> to compel through intimidation the Palestinians to repudiate their
> own elected officials.
They don't Israel's help for that. As soon as Israel left Gaza they
started killing each other over their political differences.
> This attempt has failed and continues to
> fail. It has cost the lives of many innocent human beings. It has
> accomplished nothing of value for Israel.
Unless you consider the security of its citizens to be something of
value.
Al Smith
>> > elected by the Palestinians.
>
> It may not be within Israel's purview to decide who becomes the ruling
> party in Palestine, but it certainly is Israel's business what that
> outcome is.
>
No, it is not. The Palestinians may elect Hamas, or anyone else they
wish to elect to lead them. Their choice should be respected. It is
then up to the leadership of Israel to attempt to work with whomever
the Palestinians have elected.
It is *not* the role of Israel to refuse to talk to the leadership,
to try to assassinate them, or to collectively punish all the
Palestinian people in an attempt to force Palestinians to deny their
own democratically elected leaders.
-Al-
AirRaid
Alexander
You seem to forget that Israel has long been eradicating Arabs from
their population. You also seem to forget the Israel has also stated
time after time that they would take everything from the Euphrates to
the Sea. You Jewish folks also seem to forget that TransJordan was given
for use by both the indigenous inhabitants(*mostly Arabs) and 600,000
incoming displaced European Jews. How soon you forget how it feels to be
displaced and treated like shit. Israel has been sneak attacking their
neighbors for decades and blaming everything on others. It is long past
the time when the Jews reject their own racism and took responsibility
for their own massive crimes..Past and present. Now the great and
divine Israeli's have turned Gaza into a walled Death camp for those
they are killing by the dozens.. And all in the guise of doing right by
assassinating all who question the great Jews in act of stealing more
and more land from the victims. Israel has done nothing to keep the
settlers from expanding and murdering the land owners. In fact Israel is
promoting this Holocaust. It is Bolshevik Russian Jews murdering every
nonJew in Sight all over again. You Jews have no conscience and
absolutely no shame whatsoever.
Alexander
That is exactly right. What happens in another country is none of your
business. If such were not the case... America would have turned Israel
into nuclear vapor long ago. You are just another Jew that thinks
enslaving others, stealing everything they own and murdering anything
that displeases you is OK. If you Jews had ever abided by the UN
sanctions, these things would not be happening. The only way for things
to level out is for Israel be remove all weapons, submit to UN sanctions
and to submit to protection under the UN..The same for the Palestinians.
Of course you do know that Israel will more then likely have to be
judged and pay for war crimes. No more Nukes for Israel!
Alexander
It has long been Israel responsibility for the atrocities committed by
all in the ME. Israel has used every dirty trick and murderous endeavor
to take that which is not theirs. You people are the scum of the earth.
Many Jews have tried to turn Israel from this terrible path of
destruction and murder to no evail. Sheldon, You should be scourged by
the decent and moral Jews of this world. You bring shame and dishonor to
all Jews.
Sheldon Liberman
You're living in your own little world, Al. Enjoy your delusions of
adquacy.
>
> -Al-
Alexander
> On Jan 4, 8:41 am, "peace.seeker.27" <vesuvian.doppelga...@lycos.com>
> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> The Gaza Strip is smaller than the
>> Isle of Wight but it is crammed with 1.5 million people
>
> For the love of mike, won't someone please stop the steaming bullshit?
>
> Population density of Gaza 4,118/km2
> Population density of Mumbai 22,658/km2
> Delhi 26276
> Jakarta 12738
> Dhaka 43752
>
> Unlike the others, the arabs CHOOSE to be where they are for political
> reasons. They could have been absorbed into other arab nations long
> ago.
The Palestinians were herded into that death camp by the Jews. It is the
killing fields of Israel. The supply lines were never wide open. It was
designed to create the excuse for Armor, Fighter aircraft, and all other
high tech mass killing devices to murder 1.5 million victims of the
racist and arrogant Israelis. I am sickened that American treasure and
weaponry are being used to accomplish this. I am ashamed that we allow
your kind to actively promote this and from America. I wish you the same
fate as you promote for the victims of Gaza. Your kind caused an Adolph
Hitler to ascend to power. Now the world is beginning to see the truth
and more then likely an Arab Hitler is now being groomed and will be
applauded in much of the world when you Israeli firsters become an
unpleasant memory. Your kind has tried to false flag America into doing
your dirty work in Gaza.. Even to the point that American satellites are
being use to target the poor souls in Gaza. Obviously the world will be
a better placewithout Israel and your kind.
Alexander
You, obviously are an idiot and not a sponsor of free thought and
movement. Sadly many of us in the service of our country killed better
men then you and for less reasons then you evoke. May your ending be as
unpleasant as what you wish on others.
>
>
drref
"Alexander" <Alex...@thegreat.org> wrote in message
news:6sd58mF...@mid.individual.net...
yours other than as an anti semite???
drref
> The Palestinians were herded into that death camp by the Jews. It is the
> killing fields of Israel. The supply lines were never wide open. It was
> designed to create the excuse for Armor, Fighter aircraft, and all other
> high tech mass killing devices to murder 1.5 million victims of the racist
> and arrogant Israelis. I am sickened that American treasure and weaponry
> are being used to accomplish this. I am ashamed that we allow your kind to
> actively promote this and from America. I wish you the same fate as you
> promote for the victims of Gaza. Your kind caused an Adolph Hitler to
> ascend to power. Now the world is beginning to see the truth and more then
> likely an Arab Hitler is now being groomed and will be applauded in much
> of the world when you Israeli firsters become an unpleasant memory. Your
> kind has tried to false flag America into doing your dirty work in Gaza..
> Even to the point that American satellites are
> being use to target the poor souls in Gaza. Obviously the world will be a
> better placewithout Israel and your kind.
blah blah blah,
Israel exists, will continue to exist and will do what any sovereign nation
needs to do to continue to exist and to thrive.
And what false flag has America doing dirty work in Gaza????
And since you are obviously privy to American Intelligence, more so than
even our Commander in Chief, your statement re: satellites should be taken
as holy gospel.
Don Ocean
>> The Palestinians were herded into that death camp by the Jews. It is the
>> killing fields of Israel. The supply lines were never wide open. It was
>> designed to create the excuse for Armor, Fighter aircraft, and all other
>> high tech mass killing devices to murder 1.5 million victims of the racist
>> and arrogant Israelis. I am sickened that American treasure and weaponry
>> are being used to accomplish this. I am ashamed that we allow your kind to
>> actively promote this and from America. I wish you the same fate as you
>> promote for the victims of Gaza. Your kind caused an Adolph Hitler to
>> ascend to power. Now the world is beginning to see the truth and more then
>> likely an Arab Hitler is now being groomed and will be applauded in much
>> of the world when you Israeli firsters become an unpleasant memory. Your
>> kind has tried to false flag America into doing your dirty work in Gaza..
>> Even to the point that American satellites are
>> being use to target the poor souls in Gaza. Obviously the world will be a
>> better placewithout Israel and your kind.
>
>
> blah blah blah,
> Israel exists, will continue to exist and will do what any sovereign nation
> needs to do to continue to exist and to thrive.
Doubtful. I believe that you fools are as suicide prone now as when you
declared war on Germany in 1932.
> And what false flag has America doing dirty work in Gaza????
No false flag. The IAF is using American satellites for targeting in
Gaza. We are supposed to be nuetral. Many American Military officers are
upset that American military secret technology is being handed to one of
the warring parties. As a citizen, you should be also.
As for the false flag business..Start here.. and after wards do your
homework up until 2009.
Of course if you approve of either Jews or Palestinians killing
Americans..Well .. what can I say?
> And since you are obviously privy to American Intelligence, more so than
> even our Commander in Chief, your statement re: satellites should be taken
> as holy gospel.
It is on the Swiss and Australian News. The French have lodged a
protest. In fact Almost every major country in the world has protested
Israels attack and the previous blockade of food, fuel and medical
supplies. Holy Gospels are riddled with prevarications and
inconsistencies. How much do you get paid to post this Israeli
Propaganda? Doesn't it bother you that not only massive war crimes being
committed in Gaza, so are crimes against humanity. This war and the
Rocket attacks were product of Jewish planned actions. There is no way
that Israel was going to allow Gaza to remain in Palestinian hands. No
matter how peaceful it might have become. Damascus is next on Israels
hit list. Lebanon is a shoo-in for future reference. You do know the
Chinese are viewing this and showing a bit of unhappiness also. I cannot
get my usual Russian Newsfeed, So have a blank spot there.
Justice
You, Sir, Just Honored that American citizen who served after leaving
Annapolis, an entire career. I don't know how he feels about being
called an antisemite for criticizing murder in the Gaza strip. It does
appear you are nothing less then a liar and a cheap propagandist. you
were a paper pusher and earned you way filling wastebaskets.
>
>
torresD
"drref" <jeffreyk...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:QCd8l.3462$Es4....@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
I salute you for your service to the United States of America.
torresD
> My service to America is as a Veteran and commissioned officer. What is
> yours other than as an anti semite???
Hats off to you for your service as a Veteran in the USA Military.
However, I denounce your calling anybody an anti-semite because
they condemn the horrible treatment of the Palestinan people by
the USA backed Israeli Military and for condemning the slaughter presently
taking place in Gaza, in full view of the entire world.
Painting someone that dares to criticize Israel as an anti-semite is
a tactic has lost its punch, because it has been used so often,
whenever Israel has been called on the rug for its actions.
http://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Palestine-Remembered/Story811.html
Alexander
I don't.
That person is a liar and an Israel firster. Commissioned officers take
an oath of allegiance to the United States of America against enemies
within and without. No other country can contervene that oath. The only
Jewish-American officer that posts here is Joe Bruno(Tandy of National
City, CA). Also Commissioned Officers serve at the will of Congress and
do not make foreign policy.
America first and always:
Al Smith
I agree, it is long past the time Israel should have been called to
account for its crimes. There is simply no longer any reason to give
Israel the benefit of a doubt. They are in the wrong. These
responsible for their crimes against the Palestinians and Lebanese
(and others) should be punished. Isreal must be forced to give up
what it has stolen.
-Al-
Al Smith
I know what is right and just, and so do you. I advocate what is
right and just, and you spout propaganda and lies, and hide behind a
veil of hypocrisy. You are in the wrong, and you damned well know it
-- whether or not you admit it to yourself or to anyone else is
beside the point. Criminals often refuse to acknowledge their guilt
for their crimes.
-Al-
drref
"
>
> You, Sir, Just Honored that American citizen who served after leaving
> Annapolis, an entire career. I don't know how he feels about being called
> an antisemite for criticizing murder in the Gaza strip. It does
> appear you are nothing less then a liar and a cheap propagandist. you
> were a paper pusher and earned you way filling wastebaskets.
>>
b- I stand by my service
c- There is no murder in the Gaza strip any more so than there was in
Vietnam, or in Iraq or in Afghanistan. They are wars. Civilians who are in
harms way get hurt. PERIOD. But when Israel does it for self defense you
have the audacity to call it murder.
And if you did serve let me ask the simple question: Ask the majority of
serving officers who they would rather have in a foxhole with them, an
Israeli Soldier or an Arab Army soldier and what would be the answer??
drref
>
> However, I denounce your calling anybody an anti-semite because
> they condemn the horrible treatment of the Palestinan people by
> the USA backed Israeli Military and for condemning the slaughter presently
> taking place in Gaza, in full view of the entire world.
>
> Painting someone that dares to criticize Israel as an anti-semite is
> a tactic has lost its punch, because it has been used so often,
> whenever Israel has been called on the rug for its actions.
>
> http://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Palestine-Remembered/Story811.html
in Vietnam or there is in Iraq or Afghanistan. You are fighting terrorists
who hide behind the civilian population.
And frankly the Israelies are being generous. I would subscribe to the
airborne tactics of General Lemay.
Al Smith
> needs to do to continue to exist and to thrive.
A certainty of history is that a time will come when Israel no
longer exists.
The only permanent Jerusalem is the Jerusalem of the mind. Foolish
Zionists have thrown that away in favor of a Jerusalem of brick and
stone.
-Al-
drref
"Justice" <ju...@info.com> wrote in message
news:6sdbp7F...@mid.individual.net...
read!!!! ) It makes sense and it's not slanted. Jew and non-Jew -- it
doesn't matter.
1. Nationhood and Jerusalem. Israel became a nation in 1312 BCE, Two
thousand years before the rise of Islam.
2. Arab refugees in Israel began identifying themselves as part of a
Palestinian people in 1967, two decades after the establishment of the
modern State of Israel.
3. Since the Jewish conquest in 1272 BCE, the Jews have had dominion over
the land for one thousand years with a continuous presence in the land for
the past 3,300 years.
4. The only Arab dominion since the conquest in 635 CE lasted no more than
22 years.
5. For over 3,300=2 0years, Jerusalem has been the Jewish capital Jerusalem
has never been the capital of any Arab or Muslim entity. Even when the
Jordanians occupied Jerusalem, they never sought to make it their capital,
and Arab leaders did not come to visit.
6. Jerusalem is mentioned over 700 times in Tanach, the Jewish Holy
Scriptures. Jerusalem is not mentioned once in the Koran.
7. King David founded the city of Jerusalem. Mohammed never came to
Jerusalem.
8. Jews pray facing Jerusalem. Muslims pray with their backs toward
Jerusalem.
9. Arab and Jewish Refugees: in 1948 the Arab refugees were encouraged to
leave Israel by Arab leaders promising to purge the land of Jews.
Sixty-eight percent left without ever seeing an Israeli soldier.
10 The Jewish refugees were forced to flee from Arab lands due to Arab
brutality, persecution and pogroms.
11. The number of Arab refugees who left Israel in 1948 is estimated to be
around 630,000.The number of Jewish refugees from Arab lands is estimated to
be the same.
12. Arab refugees were INTENTIONALLY not absorbed or integrated into the
Arab lands to which they fled, despite the vast Arab territory. Out of the
100,000,000 refugees since World War II, theirs is the only refugee group in
the world that has never been absorbed or integrated into their own people's
lands. Jewish refugees were completely absorbed into Israel, a country no
larger than the state of New Jersey .
13. The Arab-Israeli Conflict: the Arabs are represented by eight separate
nations, not includ ing the Palestinians. There is only one Jewish nation.
The Arab nations initiated all five wars and lost. Israel defended itself
each time and won.
14. The PLO's Charter still calls for the destruction of the State of
Israel. Israel has given the Palestinians most of the West Bank land,
autonomy under the Palestinian Authority, and has supplied them.
15. Under Jordanian rule, Jewish holy sites were desecrated and the Jews
were denied access to places of worship. Under Israeli rule, all Muslim and
Christian sites have been preserved and made accessible to people of all
faiths.
16. The UN Record on Israel and the Arabs: of the 175 Security Council
resolutions passed before 1990, 97 were directed against Israel.
17. Of the 690 General Assembly resolutions voted on before 1990, 429 were
directed against Israel.
18. The UN was silent while 58 Jerusalem Synagogues were destroyed by the
Jordanians.
19. The UN was silent while the Jordanians systematically desecrated the
ancient Jewish cemetery on the Mount of Olives.
20. The UN was silent while the Jordanians enforced an apartheid-like a
policy of preventing Jews from visiting the Temple Mount and the Western
Wall.
drref
she...@liberman.com
>
> - Show quoted text -
As I wrote, you're delusional. You presume to tell me what I know? You
don't even understand what I know.
You defend a populace that is defined by hatred, that thinks nothing
of making willing sacrifices of impressionable children. That
subscribes to an idiology that has left a path of death and
destruction all over the world. One that puts women and children on
rooftops of buildings that Israel warns is a target. This is a society
that has faked funerals and injury, and that has become adept at
victimhood. Unbelievable.
she...@liberman.com
> It has long been Israel responsibility for the atrocities committed by
> all in the ME. Israel has used every dirty trick and murderous endeavor
> to take that which is not theirs. You people are the scum of the earth.
And you're an idiot without the faintest idea of what you're talking
about.
> Many Jews have tried to turn Israel from this terrible path of
> destruction and murder to no evail. Sheldon, You should be scourged by
> the decent and moral Jews of this world. You bring shame and dishonor to
> all Jews.
Ooh, I'd be offended if you were someone that anyone would take
seriously.
> >> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
AirRaid Mach 2.5
includes the Gaza Strip. They should be in some arab land outside of
Israel where they belong, if they are to live. Otherwise they can die
trying to claim Israel's rightful land.
Justice
Neither.. A real Marine will do just fine. I can tell by your question
that you don't honor your oath to this country. Also we don't waste time
sitting in foxholes. Objectives being taken is the way to win. You sure
as Hell didn't spend any time at war college. Move to your Bolshevik
homeland of Israel. Stop infesting America with this Nazi-Jew stuff.
My classmate was at Annapolis, I take it your classmate is a Jewish
war criminal.
>
>
Justice
I suggest you read your map again. Most of that was not territory that
was to be loaned for use by Israel. The UN was not very anxious to get
more of its people assassinated by the thugs that had killed so many
Brits and UN personal. Israel is a Criminal state from day one and
should be given back to palestine. I find it hard to believe that you
are that ignorant. Obviously that or you are a liar.. Which?
>
>
fla...@verizon.net
On 4-Jan-2009, Alexander <Alex...@thegreat.org> wrote:
> It has long been Israel responsibility for the atrocities committed by
> all in the ME [slush rest of lies]
& pigs have wings (Or, wait, maybe you don't...)
Susan
Al Smith
>>> > > adquacy.
>> >
>> > I know what is right and just, and so do you. I advocate what is
>> > right and just, and you spout propaganda and lies, and hide behind a
>> > veil of hypocrisy. You are in the wrong, and you damned well know it
>> > -- whether or not you admit it to yourself or to anyone else is
>> > beside the point. Criminals often refuse to acknowledge their guilt
>> > for their crimes.
>> >
>> > -Al-- Hide quoted text -
>> >
>> > - Show quoted text -
>
> As I wrote, you're delusional. You presume to tell me what I know? You
> don't even understand what I know.
> You defend a populace that is defined by hatred, that thinks nothing
> of making willing sacrifices of impressionable children. That
> subscribes to an idiology that has left a path of death and
> destruction all over the world. One that puts women and children on
> rooftops of buildings that Israel warns is a target. This is a society
> that has faked funerals and injury, and that has become adept at
> victimhood. Unbelievable.
Palestinians have been abused, hounded, denigrated, lied to,
cheated, assaulted, and murdered by Israelis for decades. Do you
really find it surprising that they hate Israelis? Israel has
brought that hatred on its own head, and it will suffer the full
consequences of it. Karma is a bitch.
It is probably too late for the Israeli leadership to even try to
act like human beings toward the Palestinians. But since they show
not the slightest desire to even attempt to do so, that is academic.
They can enjoy themselves, sending off their pathetic little army to
bomb the houses and schools of civilians. They can live it up, play
the big men. Eventually, the price for this evil, subhuman behavior
on their part will have to be paid, and it will be paid by all the
Jews living in Israel.
-Al-
Al Smith
He is merely parroting the standard propaganda drivel that the
Zionist shills always spout. It is meaningless, and should be
completely disregarded. It is a waste of time and energy to engage
with it. That is its purpose, to distract and obscure the obvious
facts of what has happened, and what is still happening, to the
Palestinians.
-Al-
Alexander
You have wings??????
drref
>
> I suggest you read your map again. Most of that was not territory that was
> to be loaned for use by Israel. The UN was not very anxious to get more of
> its people assassinated by the thugs that had killed so many Brits and UN
> personal. Israel is a Criminal state from day one and should be given back
> to palestine. I find it hard to believe that you are that ignorant.
> Obviously that or you are a liar.. Which?
>>
and possibly as a marine, but probably as an uneducated NCO.
Kudos on your service, now pick up a book.
B.H. Cramer
"Sheldon Liberman" <she...@liberman.com> wrote in message
news:b3ef3644-4e6b-42b6...@y1g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
On Jan 4, 11:02 am, Al Smith <inva...@address.com> wrote:
> > Rather than seize this opportunity and test Hamas's sincerity, the
> > Israeli government reacted by punishing the entire civilian
> > population. It announced that it was blockading the Gaza Strip in
> > order to "pressure" its people to reverse the democratic process. The
> > Israelis surrounded the Strip and refused to let anyone or anything
> > out.
>
> This is the key to understanding the present situation in Gaza.
> Hamas was elected in a democratic election, that had been encouraged
> by America and Israel. This was unexpected, and unwanted, by Israel.
> Israel responded by doing everything in its power to force
> Palestinians to repudiate their own democratic election process, and
> they have failed.
>
> Israel has caused all the suffering and terror that has resulted
> from their bad decision to attempt to overturn, by brute force, the
> democratic election of Hamas.
>
> -Al-
>You forgot the part about how Palestinians used their vote to elect a
>party whose raison d'etre is the destruction of Israel.
UMMMMMMM. You conveniently forget that the yids, in particular Shin Bet
spent considerable effort in ensuring HAMAS won that election, sheldie.
Why do you not mention that?
B.H. Cramer
"drahcir" <justrich...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:627c5501-3d3b-47ed...@a12g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
On Jan 4, 8:41 am, "peace.seeker.27" <vesuvian.doppelga...@lycos.com>
wrote:
<snip>
>>The Gaza Strip is smaller than the
>> Isle of Wight but it is crammed with 1.5 million people
>For the love of mike, won't someone please stop the steaming bullshit?
>Population density of Gaza 4,118/km2
>Population density of Mumbai 22,658/km2
>Delhi 26276
>Jakarta 12738
>Dhaka 43752
Now,now, RATner. Apples and oranges in your typically yid flawed and skweded
table.
You are comparing a country (Gazas) with cities. Do you see the difference?
Pictures you want me to draw already?
>Unlike the others, the arabs CHOOSE to be where they are for political
>reasons. They could have been absorbed into other arab nations long
>ago.
You lying cunt, RATner.
The yids have offered to bomb Egypt and Jordan to the shitter if they ever
let huge numbers of Palestinians in, just as they did in Lebanon in 1982.
who can never
> leave. They live out their lives on top of each other, jobless and
> hungry, in vast, sagging tower blocks. From the top floor, you can
> often see the borders of their world: the Mediterranean, and Israeli
> barbed wire. When bombs begin to fall - as they are doing now with
> more deadly force than at any time since 1967 - there is nowhere to
> hide.
>
> There will now be a war over the story of this war. The Israeli
> government says, "We withdrew from Gaza in 2005 and in return we got
> Hamas and Qassam rockets being rained on our cities. Sixteen civilians
> have been murdered. How many more are we supposed to sacrifice?" It is
> a plausible narrative, and there are shards of truth in it, but it is
> also filled with holes. If we want to understand the reality and
> really stop the rockets, we need to rewind a few years and view the
> run-up to this war dispassionately.
>
> The Israeli government did indeed withdraw from the Gaza Strip in 2005
> - in order to be able to intensify control of the West Bank. Ariel
> Sharon's senior adviser, Dov Weisglass, was unequivocal about this,
> explaining: "The disengagement [from Gaza] is actually formaldehyde.
> It supplies the amount of formaldehyde that is necessary so that there
> will not be a political process with the Palestinians... this whole
> package that is called the Palestinian state has been removed from our
> agenda indefinitely."
>
> Ordinary Palestinians were horrified by this, and by the fetid
> corruption of their own Fatah leaders, so they voted for Hamas. It
> certainly wouldn't have been my choice - an Islamist party is
> antithetical to all my convictions - but we have to be honest. It was
> a free and democratic election, and it was not a rejection of a two-
> state solution. The most detailed polling of Palestinians, by the
> University of Maryland, found that 72 per cent want a two-state
> solution on the 1967 borders, while fewer than 20 per cent want to
> reclaim the whole of historic Palestine. So, partly in response to
> this pressure, Hamas offered Israel a long, long ceasefire and a de
> facto acceptance of two states, if only Israel would return to its
> legal borders.
>
> Rather than seize this opportunity and test Hamas's sincerity, the
> Israeli government reacted by punishing the entire civilian
> population. It announced that it was blockading the Gaza Strip in
> order to "pressure" its people to reverse the democratic process. The
> Israelis surrounded the Strip and refused to let anyone or anything
> out. They let in a small trickle of food, fuel and medicine - but not
> enough for survival. Weisglass quipped that the Gazans were being "put
> on a diet". According to Oxfam, only 137 trucks of food were allowed
> into Gaza last month to feed 1.5 million people. The United Nations
> says poverty has reached an "unprecedented level." When I was last in
> besieged Gaza, I saw hospitals turning away the sick because their
> machinery and medicine was running out. I met hungry children
> stumbling around the streets, scavenging for food.
>
> It was in this context - under a collective punishment designed to
> topple a democracy - that some forces within Gaza did something
> immoral: they fired Qassam rockets indiscriminately at Israeli cities.
> These rockets have killed 16 Israeli citizens. This is abhorrent:
> targeting civilians is always murder. But it is hypocritical for the
> Israeli government to claim now to speak out for the safety of
> civilians when it has been terrorising civilians as a matter of state
> policy.
>
> The American and European governments are responding with a lop-
> sidedness that ignores these realities. They say that Israel cannot be
> expected to negotiate while under rocket fire, but they demand that
> the Palestinians do so under siege in Gaza and violent military
> occupation in the West Bank.
>
> Before it falls down the memory hole, we should remember that last
> week, Hamas offered a ceasefire in return for basic and achievable
> compromises. Don't take my word for it. According to the Israeli
> press, Yuval Diskin, the current head of the Israeli security service
> Shin Bet, "told the Israeli cabinet [on 23 December] that Hamas is
> interested in continuing the truce, but wants to improve its terms."
> Diskin explained that Hamas was requesting two things: an end to the
> blockade, and an Israeli ceasefire on the West Bank. The cabinet -
> high with election fever and eager to appear tough - rejected these
> terms.
>
> The core of the situation has been starkly laid out by Ephraim Halevy,
> the former head of Mossad. He says that while Hamas militants - like
> much of the Israeli right-wing - dream of driving their opponents
> away, "they have recognised this ideological goal is not attainable
> and will not be in the foreseeable future." Instead, "they are ready
> and willing to see the establishment of a Palestinian state in the
> temporary borders of 1967." They are aware that this means they "will
> have to adopt a path that could lead them far from their original
> goals" - and towards a long-term peace based on compromise.
>
> The rejectionists on both sides - from Mahmoud Ahmadinejad of Iran to
> Bibi Netanyahu of Israel - would then be marginalised. It is the only
> path that could yet end in peace but it is the Israeli government that
> refuses to choose it. Halevy explains: "Israel, for reasons of its
> own, did not want to turn the ceasefire into the start of a diplomatic
> process with Hamas."
>
> Why would Israel act this way? The Israeli government wants peace, but
> only one imposed on its own terms, based on the acceptance of defeat
> by the Palestinians. It means the Israelis can keep the slabs of the
> West Bank on "their" side of the wall. It means they keep the largest
> settlements and control the water supply. And it means a divided
> Palestine, with responsibility for Gaza hived off to Egypt, and the
> broken-up West Bank standing alone. Negotiations threaten this vision:
> they would require Israel to give up more than it wants to. But an
> imposed peace will be no peace at all: it will not stop the rockets or
> the rage. For real safety, Israel will have to talk to the people it
> is blockading and bombing today, and compromise with them.
>
> The sound of Gaza burning should be drowned out by the words of the
> Israeli writer Larry Derfner. He says: "Israel's war with Gaza has to
> be the most one-sided on earth... If the point is to end it, or at
> least begin to end it, the ball is not in Hamas's court - it is in
> ours."
>
> http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/johann-...
B.H. Cramer
>
> For the love of mike, won't someone please stop the steaming bullshit?
>
> Population density of Gaza 4,118/km2
> Population density of Mumbai 22,658/km2
> Delhi 26276
> Jakarta 12738
> Dhaka 43752
>
> reasons. They could have been absorbed into other arab nations long
> ago.
>
>
>
>
Not a fact in sight stupid jew.
RATner is compaing a country's population density with cities.
Do you see a difference? Do you see where he's completely fucked up?
Do you see the yid distortion and deceit?
Pictures you want already.
>
>
drref
> Annapolis, an entire career. I don't know how he feels about being called
> an antisemite for criticizing murder in the Gaza strip. It does
> appear you are nothing less then a liar and a cheap propagandist. you
> were a paper pusher and earned you way filling wastebaskets.
>>
a- USS COLE
b- Marine Barracks in Lebanon
B.H. Cramer
"Alexander" <Alex...@thegreat.org> wrote in message
news:6sd58mF...@mid.individual.net...
> drref wrote:
>>
>> Population density of Gaza 4,118/km2
>> Population density of Mumbai 22,658/km2
>> Delhi 26276
>> Jakarta 12738
>> Dhaka 43752
>>
>> Unlike the others, the arabs CHOOSE to be where they are for political
>> reasons. They could have been absorbed into other arab nations long
>> ago.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Bless you for a ray of fact.
>
> movement. Sadly many of us in the service of our country killed better men
> then you and for less reasons then you evoke. May your ending be as
> unpleasant as what you wish on others.
If this dref creep lived any further away from Ersatz israel, he'd get his
feet wet.
>>
B.H. Cramer
>
> "Alexander" <Alex...@thegreat.org> wrote in message
> news:6sd58mF...@mid.individual.net...
>> drref wrote:
>>> For the love of mike, won't someone please stop the steaming bullshit?
>>>
>>> Population density of Gaza 4,118/km2
>>> Population density of Mumbai 22,658/km2
>>> Delhi 26276
>>> Jakarta 12738
>>> Dhaka 43752
>>>
>>> Unlike the others, the arabs CHOOSE to be where they are for political
>>> reasons. They could have been absorbed into other arab nations long
>>> ago.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Bless you for a ray of fact.
>>
>> You, obviously are an idiot and not a sponsor of free thought and
>> movement. Sadly many of us in the service of our country killed better
>> men then you and for less reasons then you evoke. May your ending be as
>> unpleasant as what you wish on others.
>>>
BBBWWWAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHA
In the fucking medical corps.
Get real jeffie.
drref
USS COLE
the massacre at the US Marine Barracks in Lebanon
B.H. Cramer
>> news:6sd58mF...@mid.individual.net...
>>> drref wrote:
>>>> For the love of mike, won't someone please stop the steaming bullshit?
>>>>
>>>> Population density of Gaza 4,118/km2
>>>> Population density of Mumbai 22,658/km2
>>>> Delhi 26276
>>>> Jakarta 12738
>>>> Dhaka 43752
>>>>
>>>> Unlike the others, the arabs CHOOSE to be where they are for political
>>>> reasons. They could have been absorbed into other arab nations long
>>>> ago.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Bless you for a ray of fact.
>>> You, obviously are an idiot and not a sponsor of free thought and
>>> movement. Sadly many of us in the service of our country killed better
>>> men then you and for less reasons then you evoke. May your ending be as
>>> unpleasant as what you wish on others.
>> yours other than as an anti semite???
>
> Annapolis, an entire career. I don't know how he feels about being called
> an antisemite for criticizing murder in the Gaza strip. It does
> appear you are nothing less then a liar and a cheap propagandist. you
> were a paper pusher and earned you way filling wastebaskets.
He was in the medical corps.
>>
B.H. Cramer
And the yids fucked off and abandoned the place about 1800 years ago.
End of story, jeffie babes.
yousaybeus
> drahcir wrote:
> > On Jan 4, 8:41 am, "peace.seeker.27" <vesuvian.doppelga...@lycos.com>
> > wrote:
>
> > <snip>
>
> > The Gaza Strip is smaller than the
> >> Isle of Wight but it is crammed with 1.5 million people
>
>
> > Population density of Gaza 4,118/km2
> > Population density of Mumbai 22,658/km2
> > Delhi 26276
> > Jakarta 12738
> > Dhaka 43752
>
> > Unlike the others, the arabs CHOOSE to be where they are for political
> > reasons. They could have been absorbed into other arab nations long
> > ago.
>
Your statement reveals nothing except the incredible ignorance,
stupidity, and naivete of its author. The rest of your paragraph is no
doubt equally worthless.
It is the
> killing fields of Israel. The supply lines were never wide open. It was
> designed to create the excuse for Armor, Fighter aircraft, and all other
> high tech mass killing devices to murder 1.5 million victims of the
> racist and arrogant Israelis. I am sickened that American treasure and
> weaponry are being used to accomplish this. I am ashamed that we allow
> your kind to actively promote this and from America. I wish you the same
> fate as you promote for the victims of Gaza. Your kind caused an Adolph
> Hitler to ascend to power. Now the world is beginning to see the truth
> and more then likely an Arab Hitler is now being groomed and will be
> applauded in much of the world when you Israeli firsters become an
> unpleasant memory. Your kind has tried to false flag America into doing
> your dirty work in Gaza.. Even to the point that American satellites are
> being use to target the poor souls in Gaza. Obviously the world will be
> a better placewithout Israel and your kind.
yousaybeus
> "Alexander" <Alexan...@thegreat.org> wrote in message
>
> news:6sd58mF...@mid.individual.net...
>
> > drref wrote:
> >> For the love of mike, won't someone please stop the steaming bullshit?
>
> >> Population density of Gaza 4,118/km2
> >> Population density of Mumbai 22,658/km2
> >> Delhi 26276
> >> Jakarta 12738
> >> Dhaka 43752
>
> >> Unlike the others, the arabs CHOOSE to be where they are for political
> >> reasons. They could have been absorbed into other arab nations long
> >> ago.
>
>
> > You, obviously are an idiot and not a sponsor of free thought and
> > movement. Sadly many of us in the service of our country killed better men
> > then you and for less reasons then you evoke. May your ending be as
> > unpleasant as what you wish on others.
>
> My service to America is as a Veteran and commissioned officer. What is
> yours other than as an anti semite???
Bravo. You shut him up pretty good.
B.H. Cramer
Why were the marines in Lebanon, jeffie babes?
>
>
B.H. Cramer
"yousaybeus" <justrich...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:cfbad042-4883-4c8f...@i24g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
No it hasn't, you lying rat RATner.
Jeffie babes was in the medical corp ferfuckssake.
B.H. Cramer
"Daniel Bernard" <fifthh...@the.apocalypse> wrote in message
news:0k34m494et04aejsf...@4ax.com...
For a jew it is. It's further away from the actual combat.
> --
> amicalement,
>
> Daniel
> www.catsthatlooklikehitler.com
B.H. Cramer
<she...@liberman.com> wrote in message
news:f4306b06-fced-4957...@33g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
On Jan 4, 7:58 pm, Alexander <Alexan...@thegreat.org> wrote:
> It has long been Israel responsibility for the atrocities committed by
> all in the ME. Israel has used every dirty trick and murderous endeavor
> to take that which is not theirs. You people are the scum of the earth.
>And you're an idiot without the faintest idea of what you're talking
>about.
Not so, sheldie. That is most obviously you.
B.H. Cramer
<fla...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:rYh8l.3520$Es4....@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
>
> On 4-Jan-2009, Alexander <Alex...@thegreat.org> wrote:
>
>> It has long been Israel responsibility for the atrocities committed by
>> all in the ME [slush rest of lies]
>
> & pigs have wings
Do you? It wouldn't surprise me.
B.H. Cramer
Apparently so.
B.H. Cramer
> >
>> The Palestinians were herded into that death camp by the Jews. It is the
>> designed to create the excuse for Armor, Fighter aircraft, and all other
>> high tech mass killing devices to murder 1.5 million victims of the
>> racist and arrogant Israelis. I am sickened that American treasure and
>> weaponry are being used to accomplish this. I am ashamed that we allow
>> your kind to actively promote this and from America. I wish you the same
>> fate as you promote for the victims of Gaza. Your kind caused an Adolph
>> Hitler to ascend to power. Now the world is beginning to see the truth
>> and more then likely an Arab Hitler is now being groomed and will be
>> applauded in much of the world when you Israeli firsters become an
>> unpleasant memory. Your kind has tried to false flag America into doing
>> your dirty work in Gaza.. Even to the point that American satellites are
>> being use to target the poor souls in Gaza. Obviously the world will be a
>> better placewithout Israel and your kind.
>
>
> Israel exists, will continue to exist and will do what any sovereign
> nation needs to do to continue to exist and to thrive.
Nope.
They do what bugger all countries do to exist and thrive.
I cannot name a single country in the world who has been terrorising the
people from whom they stole their land for sixty years.
fla...@verizon.net
On 5-Jan-2009, "drref" <jeffreyk...@verizon.net> wrote:
> > You, Sir, Just Honored that American citizen who served after leaving
> > Annapolis, an entire career.
There is NO WAY *any* officer in our military coiuld be that
ignorant about Israel - it's obviously just another of their lies.
> > I don't know how he feels about being
> > called
> > an antisemite for criticizing murder in the Gaza strip.
See previous comment.
> > It does
> > appear you are nothing less then a liar and a cheap propagandist.
See what I mean about them projecting?
> > you
> > were a paper pusher and earned you way filling wastebaskets.
> >>
> Then I guess they taught you a little history lesson about
> a- USS COLE
> b- Marine Barracks in Lebanon
Yes, this is but one (two) of the ways we know they are lying.
Susan
B.H. Cramer
<fla...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:P2p8l.3581$Es4...@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
>
> On 5-Jan-2009, "drref" <jeffreyk...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>> > You, Sir, Just Honored that American citizen who served after leaving
>> > Annapolis, an entire career.
>
> There is NO WAY *any* officer in our military coiuld be that
> ignorant about Israel - it's obviously just another of their lies.
What the fuck does "coiuld" mean cohen?
>
>> > I don't know how he feels about being
>> > called
>> > an antisemite for criticizing murder in the Gaza strip.
>
> See previous comment.
>
>> > It does
>> > appear you are nothing less then a liar and a cheap propagandist.
>
> See what I mean about them projecting?
>
>> > you
>> > were a paper pusher and earned you way filling wastebaskets.
>> >>
>> Then I guess they taught you a little history lesson about
>> a- USS COLE
>> b- Marine Barracks in Lebanon
>
> Yes, this is but one (two) of the ways we know they are lying.
What were US marines doing in Lebanon, cohen?
>
> Susan
fla...@verizon.net
On 5-Jan-2009, yousaybeus <justrich...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jan 4, 8:12 pm, Alexander <Alexan...@thegreat.org> wrote:
> > drahcir wrote:
> > >On Jan 4, 8:41 am, "peace.seeker.27" <vesuvian.doppelga...@lycos.com>
> > >wrote:
> >
> > >>The Gaza Strip is smaller than the
> > >> Isle of Wight but it is crammed with 1.5 million people
> >
> > > For the love of mike, won't someone please stop the steaming bullshit?
> >
Hear, hear!!
> > > Population density of Gaza 4,118/km2
> > > Population density of Mumbai 22,658/km2
> > > Delhi 26276
> > > Jakarta 12738
> > > Dhaka 43752
> >
> > > Unlike the others, the arabs CHOOSE to be where they are for political
> > > reasons. They could have been absorbed into other arab nations long
> > > ago.
> >
And when confronted with facts unpleasant to lying Jew-haters ----
> > The Palestinians were herded into that death camp by the Jews.
>
- the lying Jew-hater goes even more off the deep-end.
> Your statement reveals nothing except the incredible ignorance,
> stupidity, and naivete of its author. The rest of your paragraph is no
> doubt equally worthless.
They just seem to get *dumber* every minute!!!
Susan
B.H. Cramer
<fla...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:u5p8l.3582$Es4...@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
Listen up, cohen.
RATner has tried, (unsuccessfully) to draw conclusions about popoulation
density using a country (Gaza) and a host of cities.
Do you not see where he has fucked up? And fucked up BIG TIME?
>
> Susan
HHW
Snip
>
> Unlike the others, the arabs CHOOSE to be where they are for political
> reasons. They could have been absorbed into other arab nations long
> ago.
Snip
Your logic:
P. 1: German Nazis invade Poland and drive two thirds of the native
Poles into neighboring countries.
P. 2: One third of the Poles remain and resist the invaders.
THEREFORE, The Polish Resistance remained in Poland for "political"
reasons and its struggle is illegitimate.
HHW
> On Jan 4, 11:02 am, Al Smith <inva...@address.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > > Israeli government reacted by punishing the entire civilian
> > > population. It announced that it was blockading the Gaza Strip in
> > > order to "pressure" its people to reverse the democratic process. The
> > > Israelis surrounded the Strip and refused to let anyone or anything
> > > out.
>
> > Hamas was elected in a democratic election, that had been encouraged
> > by America and Israel. This was unexpected, and unwanted, by Israel.
> > Israel responded by doing everything in its power to force
> > Palestinians to repudiate their own democratic election process, and
> > they have failed.
>
> > Israel has caused all the suffering and terror that has resulted
> > from their bad decision to attempt to overturn, by brute force, the
> > democratic election of Hamas.
>
> > -Al-
>
> You forgot the part about how Palestinians used their vote to elect a
> you sow.
You logic:
P. 1: European Jews drive two thirds of the native Palestinians into
neighboring countries in a massive ethnic cleansing;
P. 2: The European Jews erect erect a "Jewish State" on the ruins of
Palestinian civilization and continue the ethnic cleansing;
P. 3: The Palestinians demand their country back and form a resistance
movement.
THEREFORE, the Israelis are right in smashing and ethnically cleansing
the remaining Palestinians because "you reap what you sow."
HHW
> > On Jan 4, 11:02 am, Al Smith <inva...@address.com> wrote:
> >>> > > Rather than seize this opportunity and test Hamas's sincerity, the
> >>> > > Israeli government reacted by punishing the entire civilian
> >>> > > population. It announced that it was blockading the Gaza Strip in
> >>> > > order to "pressure" its people to reverse the democratic process. The
> >>> > > Israelis surrounded the Strip and refused to let anyone or anything
> >>> > > out.
>
> >> > This is the key to understanding the present situation in Gaza.
> >> > Hamas was elected in a democratic election, that had been encouraged
> >> > by America and Israel. This was unexpected, and unwanted, by Israel.
> >> > Israel responded by doing everything in its power to force
> >> > Palestinians to repudiate their own democratic election process, and
> >> > they have failed.
>
> >> > Israel has caused all the suffering and terror that has resulted
> >> > from their bad decision to attempt to overturn, by brute force, the
> >> > democratic election of Hamas.
>
> >> > -Al-
>
> > You forgot the part about how Palestinians used their vote to elect a
> > party whose raison d'etre is the destruction of Israel. You reap what
> > you sow.
>
> governing them. It's called the democratic process. Who they chose
> to elect for themselves was none of Israel's damned business.
>
> -Al-
Palestinians voted to continue their legitimate resistance against
European Jewish aggressors.
HHW
> For the love of mike, won't someone please stop the steaming bullshit?
>
> Population density of Mumbai 22,658/km2
> Delhi 26276
> Jakarta 12738
> Dhaka 43752
>
> reasons. They could have been absorbed into other arab nations long
> ago.
>
Indeed, and bless the Zionists for killing and wounding 2,500 more
Palestinians. G-d must be very pleased with this burnt offering!
HHW
> Peace offer from these people??
> Hamas founding charter
> a.. Article 7 of the Hamas Covenant states the following: "The Day of
> Judgement will not come about until Muslems fight the Jews (killing the
> Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees
> will say O Muslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him.
> Only the Gharkad tree, (the Cedar tree) would not do that because it is one
> of the trees of the Jews." (related by al-Bukhari and Muslem).
> a.. Article 22 claims that the French revolution, the Russian revolution,
> colonialism and both world wars were created by the Zionists. It also claims
> the Freemasons and Rotary clubs are Zionist fronts.
> "You may speak as much as you want about regional and world wars. They
> were behind World War I, when they were able to destroy the Islamic
> Caliphate, making financial gains and controlling resources. They obtained
> the Balfour Declaration, formed the League of Nations through which they
> could rule the world. They were behind World War II, through which they made
> huge financial gains by trading in armaments, and paved the way for the
> establishment of their state. It was they who instigated the replacement of
> the League of Nations with the United Nations and the Security Council to
> enable them to rule the world through them. There is no war going on
> anywhere, without having their finger in it."[102]
>
> a.. Furthermore, Article 32 of the Covenant makes reference to The
> Protocols of the Elders of Zion:
> "Today it is Palestine, tomorrow it will be one country or another. The
> Zionist plan is limitless. After Palestine, the Zionists aspire to expand
> from the Nile to the Euphrates. When they will have digested the region they
> overtook, they will aspire to further expansion, and so on. Their plan is
> embodied in the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion", and their present conduct
> is the best proof of what we are saying."
>
> Expressions by Hamas prominent figures and scholars
> a.. A report by MEMRI from 2002 states that the Hamas monthly Falastin
> Al-Muslima published a series of articles by Ibrahim Al-'Ali on how Allah
> punished the Jews by transforming them into animals such as "apes, pigs,
> mice, and lizards". According to MEMRI, the author stated that "The
> transformation was actual" and not metaphoric.[103]
> a.. In an editorial in The Guardian in January 2006, Khaled Meshaal, the
> chief of Hamas's political bureau denied antisemitism:
> "Our message to the Israelis is this: We do not fight you because you
> belong to a certain faith or culture. Jews have lived in the Muslim world
> for 13 centuries in peace and harmony; they are in our religion "the people
> of the book" who have a covenant from God and his messenger, Muhammad (peace
> be upon him), to be respected and protected."
> "Our conflict with you is not religious but political. We have no problem
> with Jews who have not attacked us — our problem is with those who came to
> our land, imposed themselves on us by force, destroyed our society and
> banished our people."[6]
>
> a.. In an interview aired on Al-Aqsa TV on April 9, 2008, Hamas Culture
> Minister Atallah Abu Al-Subh stated that "The Protocols of the Elders of
> Zion is the faith that every Jew harbors in his heart".[104]
> a.. In 2008 Imam Yousif al-Zahar of Hamas said in his sermon at the Katib
> Wilayat mosque in Gaza that "Jews are a people who cannot be trusted. They
> have been traitors to all agreements. Go back to history. Their fate is
> their vanishing."[105][106]
> a.. Sheik Yunus al-Astal, a Hamas legislator and imam, in a column in the
> weekly newspaper Al Risalah in 2008 discussed a Koranic verse suggesting
> that "suffering by fire is the Jews' destiny in this world and the next."
> Astal concluded "Therefore we are sure that the Holocaust is still to come
> upon the Jews.[105][106]
> a.. "We will not rest until we destroy the Zionist entity" said Hamas
> leader Fathi Hammad in Gaza on Friday January 2nd 2009 - quoted by the BBC
> and numerous media sources. [3]
>
> Holocaust denial
> a.. According to MEMRI, In 2003 Hamas leader Abdel Aziz Rantisi published
> an article in the Hamas weekly Al-Risala in which he called the Holocaust
> "the false Holocaust" and "the greatest of lies". In this article Rantisi
> expressed support to Holocaust deniers Roger Garaudy, David Irving, Gerd
> Honsik, and Fredrick Töben, and to the idea that the gas chambers were a
> myth. Rantisi also stated that "the Nazis received tremendous financial aid
> from the Zionist banks and monopolies, and this contributed to their rise to
> power", and accused the Jewish owned Berlin-based investment bank
> Mendelssohn & Co. of funding the Nazis, calling it a "Zionist bank".[107]
> a.. In 2005, Khaled Mashaal described Ahmadinejad's Holocaust denial as
> "courageous" and stated that "...Muslim people will defend Iran because it
> voices what they have in their hearts, in particular the Palestinian
> people."[108]
P. 1: Jews are different from other people.
P. 2: They are the chosen of G-d and thus are entitled to steal other
peoples' homelands and ethnically cleanse the native population.
THEREFORE, it is illegitimate for the Palestinians to resist Jewish
power much less to generate an ideology calling for victory against
the invaders.
HHW
wrote:
> On Jan 4, 10:06 am, "drref" <jeffreykrantz...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > so I read the whole article, and no where is there a peace offer.
>
> drref has a reading comprehension deficiency. Here is the ceasefire
> offer in the article:
>
> 'Hamas offered a ceasefire in return for basic and achievable
> compromises. Don't take my word for it. According to the Israeli
> press, Yuval Diskin, the current head of the Israeli security service
> Shin Bet, "told the Israeli cabinet [on 23 December] that Hamas is
> interested in continuing the truce, but wants to improve its terms."
> Diskin explained that Hamas was requesting two things: an end to the
> blockade, and an Israeli ceasefire on the West Bank. The cabinet –
> high with election fever and eager to appear tough – rejected these
> terms.'
>
> "peace.seeker.27" <vesuvian.doppelga...@lycos.com> wrote:
> > The true story behind this war is not the one Israel is telling
> > by Johann Hari
> > The Independent (U.K.)
> > Monday, 29 December 2008
>
> > The world isn't just watching the Israeli government commit a crime in
> > Gaza; we are watching it self-harm. This morning, and tomorrow
> > morning, and every morning until this punishment beating ends, the
> > young people of the Gaza Strip are going to be more filled with hate,
> > and more determined to fight back, with stones or suicide vests or
> > rockets. Israeli leaders have convinced themselves that the harder you
> > beat the Palestinians, the softer they will become. But when this is
> > over, the rage against Israelis will have hardened, and the same old
> > compromises will still be waiting by the roadside of history, untended
> > and unmade.
>
> > To understand how frightening it is to be a Gazan this morning, you
> > need to have stood in that small slab of concrete by the Mediterranean
> > and smelled the claustrophobia. The Gaza Strip is smaller than the
> > Isle of Wight but it is crammed with 1.5 million people who can never
> > leave. They live out their lives on top of each other, jobless and
> > hungry, in vast, sagging tower blocks. From the top floor, you can
> > often see the borders of their world: the Mediterranean, and Israeli
> > barbed wire. When bombs begin to fall – as they are doing now with
> > more deadly force than at any time since 1967 – there is nowhere to
> > hide.
>
> > There will now be a war over the story of this war. The Israeli
> > government says, "We withdrew from Gaza in 2005 and in return we got
> > Hamas and Qassam rockets being rained on our cities. Sixteen civilians
> > have been murdered. How many more are we supposed to sacrifice?" It is
> > a plausible narrative, and there are shards of truth in it, but it is
> > also filled with holes. If we want to understand the reality and
> > really stop the rockets, we need to rewind a few years and view the
> > run-up to this war dispassionately.
>
> > The Israeli government did indeed withdraw from the Gaza Strip in 2005
> > – in order to be able to intensify control of the West Bank. Ariel
> > Sharon's senior adviser, Dov Weisglass, was unequivocal about this,
> > explaining: "The disengagement [from Gaza] is actually formaldehyde.
> > It supplies the amount of formaldehyde that is necessary so that there
> > will not be a political process with the Palestinians... this whole
> > package that is called the Palestinian state has been removed from our
> > agenda indefinitely."
>
> > Ordinary Palestinians were horrified by this, and by the fetid
> > corruption of their own Fatah leaders, so they voted for Hamas. It
> > certainly wouldn't have been my choice – an Islamist party is
> > antithetical to all my convictions - but we have to be honest. It was
> > a free and democratic election, and it was not a rejection of a two-
> > state solution. The most detailed polling of Palestinians, by the
> > University of Maryland, found that 72 per cent want a two-state
> > solution on the 1967 borders, while fewer than 20 per cent want to
> > reclaim the whole of historic Palestine. So, partly in response to
> > this pressure, Hamas offered Israel a long, long ceasefire and a de
> > facto acceptance of two states, if only Israel would return to its
> > legal borders.
>
> > Rather than seize this opportunity and test Hamas's sincerity, the
> > Israeli government reacted by punishing the entire civilian
> > population. It announced that it was blockading the Gaza Strip in
> > order to "pressure" its people to reverse the democratic process. The
> > Israelis surrounded the Strip and refused to let anyone or anything
> > enough for survival. Weisglass quipped that the Gazans were being "put
> > on a diet". According to Oxfam, only 137 trucks of food were allowed
> > into Gaza last month to feed 1.5 million people. The United Nations
> > says poverty has reached an "unprecedented level." When I was last in
> > besieged Gaza, I saw hospitals turning away the sick because their
> > machinery and medicine was running out. I met hungry children
> > stumbling around the streets, scavenging for food.
>
> > It was in this context – under a collective punishment designed to
> > topple a democracy – that some forces within Gaza did something
> > immoral: they fired Qassam rockets indiscriminately at Israeli cities.
> > These rockets have killed 16 Israeli citizens. This is abhorrent:
> > targeting civilians is always murder. But it is hypocritical for the
> > Israeli government to claim now to speak out for the safety of
> > civilians when it has been terrorising civilians as a matter of state
> > policy.
>
> > The American and European governments are responding with a lop-
> > sidedness that ignores these realities. They say that Israel cannot be
> > expected to negotiate while under rocket fire, but they demand that
> > the Palestinians do so under siege in Gaza and violent military
> > occupation in the West Bank.
>
> > Before it falls down the memory hole, we should remember that last
> > week, Hamas offered a ceasefire in return for basic and achievable
> > compromises. Don't take my word for it. According to the Israeli
> > press, Yuval Diskin, the current head of the Israeli security service
> > Shin Bet, "told the Israeli cabinet [on 23 December] that Hamas is
> > interested in continuing the truce, but wants to improve its terms."
> > Diskin explained that Hamas was requesting two things: an end to the
> > blockade, and an Israeli ceasefire on the West Bank. The cabinet –
> > high with election fever and eager to appear tough – rejected these
> > terms.
>
> > The core of the situation has been starkly laid out by Ephraim Halevy,
> > the former head of Mossad. He says that while Hamas militants – like
> > much of the Israeli right-wing – dream of driving their opponents
> > away, "they have recognised this ideological goal is not attainable
> > and will not be in the foreseeable future." Instead, "they are ready
> > and willing to see the establishment of a Palestinian state in the
> > temporary borders of 1967." They are aware that this means they "will
> > have to adopt a path that could lead them far from their original
> > goals" – and towards a long-term peace based on compromise.
>
> > The rejectionists on both sides – from Mahmoud Ahmadinejad of Iran to
> > Bibi Netanyahu of Israel – would then be marginalised. It is the only
> > path that could yet end in peace but it is the Israeli government that
> > refuses to choose it. Halevy explains: "Israel, for reasons of its
> > own, did not want to turn the ceasefire into the start of a diplomatic
> > process with Hamas."
>
> > Why would Israel act this way? The Israeli government wants peace, but
> > only one imposed on its own terms, based on the acceptance of defeat
> > by the Palestinians. It means the Israelis can keep the slabs of the
> > West Bank on "their" side of the wall. It means they keep the largest
> > settlements and control the water supply. And it means a divided
> > Palestine, with responsibility for Gaza hived off to Egypt, and the
> > broken-up West Bank standing alone. Negotiations threaten this vision:
> > they would require Israel to give up more than it wants to. But an
> > imposed peace will be no peace at all: it will not stop the rockets or
> > the rage. For real safety, Israel will have to talk to the people it
> > is blockading and bombing today, and compromise with them.
>
> > The sound of Gaza burning should be drowned out by the words of the
> > Israeli writer Larry Derfner. He says: "Israel's war with Gaza has to
> > be the most one-sided on earth... If the point is to end it, or at
> > least begin to end it, the ball is not in Hamas's court – it is in
> > ours."
>
> >http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/johann-...
"Grossly unreasonable demands! Bomb them to dust!"
HHW
> On Jan 4, 11:56 am, Al Smith <inva...@address.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > > On Jan 4, 11:02 am, Al Smith <inva...@address.com> wrote:
> > >>> > > Israeli government reacted by punishing the entire civilian
> > >>> > > population. It announced that it was blockading the Gaza Strip in
> > >>> > > order to "pressure" its people to reverse the democratic process. The
> > >>> > > Israelis surrounded the Strip and refused to let anyone or anything
> > >>> > > out.
>
> > >> > Hamas was elected in a democratic election, that had been encouraged
> > >> > by America and Israel. This was unexpected, and unwanted, by Israel.
> > >> > Israel responded by doing everything in its power to force
> > >> > Palestinians to repudiate their own democratic election process, and
> > >> > they have failed.
>
> > >> > Israel has caused all the suffering and terror that has resulted
> > >> > from their bad decision to attempt to overturn, by brute force, the
> > >> > democratic election of Hamas.
>
> > >> > -Al-
>
> > > You forgot the part about how Palestinians used their vote to elect a
> > > party whose raison d'etre is the destruction of Israel. You reap what
> > > you sow.
>
> > Palestinians used their votes to elect the party they wanted to have
> > governing them. It's called the democratic process. Who they chose
> > to elect for themselves was none of Israel's damned business.
>
> get any more idiotic, you come along. You're saying it's not Israel
> business that a party dedicated to its destruction is voted in by its
> neighbor?
>
>
>
> > -Al-- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
P. 1: European Jews take Palestine by force from its native people.
P. 2: European Jews are G-d's chosen people.
THEREFORE, the dispossessed may not even entertain dreams of regaining
their homeland.
TACHANUN
> drref wrote:
> > "Alexander" <Alexan...@thegreat.org> wrote in message
> >news:6sd58mF...@mid.individual.net...
> >> drref wrote:
> >>> For the love of mike, won't someone please stop the steaming bullshit?
>
> >>> Population density of Gaza 4,118/km2
> >>> Population density of Mumbai 22,658/km2
> >>> Delhi 26276
> >>> Jakarta 12738
> >>> Dhaka 43752
>
> >>> Unlike the others, the arabs CHOOSE to be where they are for political
> >>> reasons. They could have been absorbed into other arab nations long
> >>> ago.
>
> >>> Bless you for a ray of fact.
> >> movement. Sadly many of us in the service of our country killed better men
> >> then you and for less reasons then you evoke. May your ending be as
> >> unpleasant as what you wish on others.
> > yours other than as an anti semite???
>
> called an antisemite for criticizing murder in the Gaza strip. It does
> appear you are nothing less then a liar and a cheap propagandist. you
> were a paper pusher and earned you way filling wastebaskets.
>
>
>
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
And you are a homosexual
HHW
> elected by the Palestinians. That's their choice to make. It is
> Israel's place to try to work constructively with whomever the
> Palestinians choose to govern them. Israel did not do so. The
> government of Israel thus failed the people of Israel, by attempting
> to compel through intimidation the Palestinians to repudiate their
> own elected officials. This attempt has failed and continues to
> fail. It has cost the lives of many innocent human beings. It has
> accomplished nothing of value for Israel.
>
> -Al-
But Al, why do you persist? Mr. Liberman has declared your analysis
"idiotic". He is a chosen person and is even descended from an ancient
line of priests. Therefore, he is the decider on such matters. Who do
you think you are?
TACHANUN
> > b- I stand by my service
> > c- There is no murder in the Gaza strip any more so than there was in
> > Vietnam, or in Iraq or in Afghanistan. They are wars. Civilians who are in
> > harms way get hurt. PERIOD. But when Israel does it for self defense you
> > have the audacity to call it murder.
>
> > And if you did serve let me ask the simple question: Ask the majority of
> > serving officers who they would rather have in a foxhole with them, an
> > Israeli Soldier or an Arab Army soldier and what would be the answer??
>
> Neither.. A real Marine will do just fine. I can tell by your question
> that you don't honor your oath to this country. Also we don't waste time
> sitting in foxholes. Objectives being taken is the way to win. You sure
> as Hell didn't spend any time at war college. Move to your Bolshevik
> homeland of Israel. Stop infesting America with this Nazi-Jew stuff.
> My classmate was at Annapolis, I take it your classmate is a Jewish
> war criminal.
>
>
>
> - Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
You enjoy being fucked up your ass you dispicable queer.
TACHANUN
> "Justice" <ju...@info.com> wrote in message
>
> news:6sdbp7F...@mid.individual.net...
>
>
>
>
>
> >> "Alexander" <Alexan...@thegreat.org> wrote in message
> >>news:6sd58mF...@mid.individual.net...
> >>> drref wrote:
> >>>> For the love of mike, won't someone please stop the steaming bullshit?
>
> >>>> Population density of Gaza 4,118/km2
> >>>> Population density of Mumbai 22,658/km2
> >>>> Delhi 26276
> >>>> Jakarta 12738
> >>>> Dhaka 43752
>
> >>>> Unlike the others, the arabs CHOOSE to be where they are for political
> >>>> reasons. They could have been absorbed into other arab nations long
> >>>> ago.
>
> >>>> Bless you for a ray of fact.
> >>> You, obviously are an idiot and not a sponsor of free thought and
> >>> movement. Sadly many of us in the service of our country killed better
> >>> men then you and for less reasons then you evoke. May your ending be as
> >>> unpleasant as what you wish on others.
> >> My service to America is as a Veteran and commissioned officer. What is
> >> yours other than as an anti semite???
>
> > Annapolis, an entire career. I don't know how he feels about being called
> > an antisemite for criticizing murder in the Gaza strip. It does
> > appear you are nothing less then a liar and a cheap propagandist. you
> > were a paper pusher and earned you way filling wastebaskets.
>
>
>
>
> - Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
You were a masturbator being chastised by the medical corps you
worthless piece of trash.
Count 1
"HHW" <coaste...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c7a102fa-ef0b-4825...@q30g2000prq.googlegroups.com...
***
Palestinians voted to continue their legitimate resistance against
European Jewish aggressors.
***
42% of Gazans (*not* Palestinians) voted for Hamas, but then Hamas seized
all remaining political power by engaging in a civil war against Fatah,
killing dozens, probably hundreds, of Palestinians. Hamas only really knows
violence and that is how it got and maintains power in Gaza - *not*
"Palestine".
BTW - Zahar is a Hamas leader and he called for the specific targetting of
civilians. Being reported by the AP. I await your condemnation of Zahar and
Hamas for allowing such a statement to be made.
http://tinyurl.com/86z637
"Hamas leaders went into hiding before the Israeli military strike began and
only on rare occasions have addressed the Gaza residents in broadcasts from
their hideouts. On Monday, the mastermind of Hamas' takeover of Gaza,
Mahmoud Zahar, exhorted Palestinians to "crush" Israeli forces and to target
***Israeli civilians***.
yousaybeus
> <flav...@verizon.net> wrote in message
Bluff.
>
>
> > Susan
HHW
> >> It's not the business of Israel to decide who gets democratically
> >> > elected by the Palestinians.
>
> > party in Palestine, but it certainly is Israel's business what that
> > outcome is.
>
> No, it is not. The Palestinians may elect Hamas, or anyone else they
> wish to elect to lead them. Their choice should be respected. It is
> then up to the leadership of Israel to attempt to work with whomever
> the Palestinians have elected.
>
> It is *not* the role of Israel to refuse to talk to the leadership,
> to try to assassinate them, or to collectively punish all the
> Palestinian people in an attempt to force Palestinians to deny their
> own democratically elected leaders.
>
> -Al-
In fact all those acts are international crimes.
HHW
> Israel on track to wipe out Hamas.
Fool, the Palestinian Resistance will remain, more and more
embittered, more and more dangerous, more and more supported by the
outside world.
Count 1
On Jan 4, 6:10 pm, AirRaid <airrai...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Israel on track to wipe out Hamas.
***
Fool, the Palestinian Resistance will remain, more and more
embittered, more and more dangerous, more and more supported by the
outside world.
***
Unlikely, with the clear and flagrant calls to target civilians by Hamas's
'leaders'.
World opinion is already turning away from Hamas, and it's only a matter of
time before Gazans have enough of Hamas's no win strategies and moral
bankruptcy.
HHW
> Sheldon Liberman wrote:
> > On Jan 4, 11:56 am, Al Smith <inva...@address.com> wrote:
> >>> On Jan 4, 11:02 am, Al Smith <inva...@address.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>> Rather than seize this opportunity and test Hamas's sincerity, the
> >>>>>>> Israeli government reacted by punishing the entire civilian
> >>>>>>> population. It announced that it was blockading the Gaza Strip in
> >>>>>>> order to "pressure" its people to reverse the democratic process. The
> >>>>>>> Israelis surrounded the Strip and refused to let anyone or anything
> >>>>>>> out.
> >>>>> This is the key to understanding the present situation in Gaza.
> >>>>> Hamas was elected in a democratic election, that had been encouraged
> >>>>> by America and Israel. This was unexpected, and unwanted, by Israel.
> >>>>> Israel responded by doing everything in its power to force
> >>>>> Palestinians to repudiate their own democratic election process, and
> >>>>> they have failed.
> >>>>> Israel has caused all the suffering and terror that has resulted
> >>>>> from their bad decision to attempt to overturn, by brute force, the
> >>>>> democratic election of Hamas.
> >>>>> -Al-
> >>> You forgot the part about how Palestinians used their vote to elect a
> >>> party whose raison d'etre is the destruction of Israel. You reap what
> >>> you sow.
> >> Palestinians used their votes to elect the party they wanted to have
> >> governing them. It's called the democratic process. Who they chose
> >> to elect for themselves was none of Israel's damned business.
>
> > get any more idiotic, you come along. You're saying it's not Israel
> > business that a party dedicated to its destruction is voted in by its
> > neighbor?
>
> business. If such were not the case... America would have turned Israel
> into nuclear vapor long ago. You are just another Jew that thinks
> enslaving others, stealing everything they own and murdering anything
> that displeases you is OK. If you Jews had ever abided by the UN
> sanctions, these things would not be happening. The only way for things
> to level out is for Israel be remove all weapons, submit to UN sanctions
> and to submit to protection under the UN..The same for the Palestinians.
> Of course you do know that Israel will more then likely have to be
> judged and pay for war crimes. No more Nukes for Israel!
No more aid of any type until they get the hell out of the West Bank
and Gaza and begin paying reparations for their crimes in the context
of an overall regional settlement.
peace.seeker.27
[snip]
> 16. The UN Record on Israel and the Arabs: of the 175 Security Council
> resolutions passed before 1990, 97 were directed against Israel.
> 17. Of the 690 General Assembly resolutions voted on before 1990, 429 were directed against Israel.
This is not surprising, because Israel continually commits criminal
acts, war crimes, and ignores international law, such as the Geneva
Conventions. Israel refuses to recognize rulings of the International
Criminal Court. One such ruling against Israel which Israel ignores is
the ruling against the land-grabbing "dividing wall" which goes deep
into Palestinian territory, in effect stealing it.
Some of war crimes committed by Israel during the massacre at the
Jenin refugee camp have been documented by Amnesty International:
1) unlawful killings of civilians occurred;
2) there was a failure to ensure medical or humanitarian relief to
wounded civilians;
3) demolition of houses and property occurred unrelated to military
necessity (sometimes with civilians still inside who received no
warning);
4) water and electricity supplies to civilians were cut;
5) torture or other cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment in arbitrary
detention occurred; and
6) Palestinians civilians were used for military operations or as
"human shields."
source: "Israel and the Occupied Territories: Shielded from scrutiny:
IDF violations in Jenin and Nablus"
http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/info/MDE15/143/2002
Israel, which does not like publicity of its war crimes, is likely to
make every effort to prevent journalists from reporting from Gaza.
This has begun already by preventing objective journalists from
entering Gaza. Like the massacre in Jenin, it is likely that after the
fighting stops, it will be several days before journalists will be
permitted to enter Gaza, because Israel needs that time to remove the
bodies of dead civilians and bury them in unmarked graves.
Al Smith
That's a good summary of what happened, and is currently taking place.
The Zionist viewpoint on the Palestinian issue is so twisted, it is
difficult to believe that any intelligent person could hold such an
opinion.
Hence, my own conclusion that most Zionists and their apologists
know full well that what they are saying is a distortion of reality,
but say it as deliberate misinformation and propaganda.
-Al-
Al Smith
They've certainly been giving a lot of foreskins to their Angry God
of the Mountain ... or would be, if Muslims were not circumcised.
-Al-
Al Smith
Yes, how dare I have the audacity to dispute the Zionist perspective
on reality? Me, a free man, forming my own opinions, and testifying
publicly as to what I believe to be true and just. I imagine Mr. L.
would like to have me locked up, or killed. Where's a good covert
Mossad assassin when you need one?
-Al-
HHW
> "Alexander" <Alexan...@thegreat.org> wrote in message
>
> news:6sd58mF...@mid.individual.net...
>
> >> For the love of mike, won't someone please stop the steaming bullshit?
>
> >> Population density of Gaza 4,118/km2
> >> Population density of Mumbai 22,658/km2
> >> Delhi 26276
> >> Jakarta 12738
> >> Dhaka 43752
>
> >> Unlike the others, the arabs CHOOSE to be where they are for political
> >> reasons. They could have been absorbed into other arab nations long
> >> ago.
>
> >> Bless you for a ray of fact.
>
> > movement. Sadly many of us in the service of our country killed better men
> > then you and for less reasons then you evoke. May your ending be as
> > unpleasant as what you wish on others.
>
> My service to America is as a Veteran and commissioned officer. What is
> yours other than as an anti semite???
Another false accusation of anti-Semitism designed to shut down
criticism of Zionism and Israeli policy.
My service was was in the infantry-trained enlisted ranks beginning at
age 17. I met one Jew on my entire tour of duty. Today it is extremely
unfashionable in Jewish circles for their sons and daughters to serve
in the military. This is a perfectly legitimate personal decision in
the era of an all volunteer force. It is nevertheless extremely
hypocritical for American Jews to constitute the most strident war
party in America while protecting their sons and daughters from the
burdens and terror of war.
Al Smith
Yes, they are. The double standard that persists in the Western
media is breath-taking in its sheer audacity.
When Russia or Cuba tortures a prisoner, it's very bad, but when
America or Israel tortures a prisoner, it's necessary to protect
freedom and democracy. When Russia bombs civilians, it's bad, but
when Israel bombs civilians, it's regrettable but excusable
collateral damage.
You need to put on hip-waders to get through the bullshit in the
American press.
-Al-
HHW
> > The Palestinians were herded into that death camp by the Jews. It is the
> > killing fields of Israel. The supply lines were never wide open. It was
> > designed to create the excuse for Armor, Fighter aircraft, and all other
> > high tech mass killing devices to murder 1.5 million victims of the racist
> > and arrogant Israelis. I am sickened that American treasure and weaponry
> > are being used to accomplish this. I am ashamed that we allow your kind to
> > actively promote this and from America. I wish you the same fate as you
> > promote for the victims of Gaza. Your kind caused an Adolph Hitler to
> > ascend to power. Now the world is beginning to see the truth and more then
> > likely an Arab Hitler is now being groomed and will be applauded in much
> > of the world when you Israeli firsters become an unpleasant memory. Your
> > kind has tried to false flag America into doing your dirty work in Gaza..
> > Even to the point that American satellites are
> > being use to target the poor souls in Gaza. Obviously the world will be a
> > better placewithout Israel and your kind.
>
> blah blah blah,
> Israel exists, will continue to exist and will do what any sovereign nation
> needs to do to continue to exist and to thrive.
And to thrive? To thrive at the expense of the ethnically cleansed
Palestinian people? What arrogance.
When was the last time Switzerland tried to take a hunk of France by
military force cum ethnic cleansing?
> And what false flag has America doing dirty work in Gaza????
> And since you are obviously privy to American Intelligence, more so than
> even our Commander in Chief, your statement re: satellites should be taken
> as holy gospel.
American military intelligence to be used against the Palestinians
should be denied absolutely on moral grounds.
Al Smith
"World" opinion? I don't think so. Zionist propaganda only reaches
so far. Zionists may control America, but they don't control the world.
-Al-
HHW
> drref wrote:
> >> The Palestinians were herded into that death camp by the Jews. It is the
> >> killing fields of Israel. The supply lines were never wide open. It was
> >> designed to create the excuse for Armor, Fighter aircraft, and all other
> >> high tech mass killing devices to murder 1.5 million victims of the racist
> >> and arrogant Israelis. I am sickened that American treasure and weaponry
> >> are being used to accomplish this. I am ashamed that we allow your kind to
> >> actively promote this and from America. I wish you the same fate as you
> >> promote for the victims of Gaza. Your kind caused an Adolph Hitler to
> >> ascend to power. Now the world is beginning to see the truth and more then
> >> likely an Arab Hitler is now being groomed and will be applauded in much
> >> of the world when you Israeli firsters become an unpleasant memory. Your
> >> kind has tried to false flag America into doing your dirty work in Gaza..
> >> Even to the point that American satellites are
> >> being use to target the poor souls in Gaza. Obviously the world will be a
> >> better placewithout Israel and your kind.
>
> > blah blah blah,
> > Israel exists, will continue to exist and will do what any sovereign nation
> > needs to do to continue to exist and to thrive.
>
> declared war on Germany in 1932.
>
> > And what false flag has America doing dirty work in Gaza????
>
> Gaza. We are supposed to be nuetral. Many American Military officers are
> upset that American military secret technology is being handed to one of
> the warring parties. As a citizen, you should be also.
>
> As for the false flag business..Start here.. and after wards do your
> homework up until 2009.
>
> http://www.ussliberty.com
>
> Of course if you approve of either Jews or Palestinians killing
> Americans..Well .. what can I say?
>
> > And since you are obviously privy to American Intelligence, more so than
> > even our Commander in Chief, your statement re: satellites should be taken
> > as holy gospel.
>
> protest. In fact Almost every major country in the world has protested
> Israels attack and the previous blockade of food, fuel and medical
> supplies. Holy Gospels are riddled with prevarications and
> inconsistencies. How much do you get paid to post this Israeli
> Propaganda? Doesn't it bother you that not only massive war crimes being
> committed in Gaza, so are crimes against humanity. This war and the
> Rocket attacks were product of Jewish planned actions. There is no way
> that Israel was going to allow Gaza to remain in Palestinian hands. No
> matter how peaceful it might have become. Damascus is next on Israels
> hit list. Lebanon is a shoo-in for future reference. You do know the
> Chinese are viewing this and showing a bit of unhappiness also. I cannot
> get my usual Russian Newsfeed, So have a blank spot there.
>
> http://www.ussliberty.com
>
>
Good post, Don.
HHW
> > elected by the Palestinians.
>
> It may not be within Israel's purview to decide who becomes the ruling
> party in Palestine, but it certainly is Israel's business what that
> outcome is.
Was it Hitler's business to decide that the Soviet Union needed
invading in June, 1941? He said so. Therefore he was correct?
> > That's their choice to make. It is
> > Israel's place to try to work constructively with whomever the
> > Palestinians choose to govern them. Israel did not do so.
>
> How do you work constructive with an outfit that denies your right to
> exist? That is actually dedicated to your destruction?
Your actual logic:
P. 1: European Jews destroyed most of Arab Palestine and drove the
majority of its people into the diaspora.
P. 2: Israel is determined to drive the rest of the Palestinians out
of their country.
THEREFORE, Israel can not work with the Palestinians.
>
> >The
> > government of Israel thus failed the people of Israel, by attempting
> > to compel through intimidation the Palestinians to repudiate their
> > own elected officials.
>
> They don't Israel's help for that. As soon as Israel left Gaza they
> started killing each other over their political differences.
P. 1: Driven out of their country and living in squalid refugee camps
in different countries, the Palestinians have difficulty maintaining
an united front against their oppressors.
THEREFORE, they they do not have the right to resist.
>
> > This attempt has failed and continues to
> > fail. It has cost the lives of many innocent human beings. It has
> > accomplished nothing of value for Israel.
>
> Unless you consider the security of its citizens to be something of
> value.
P. 1: European Jews of Israel have a RIGHT to security.
P. 2: Palestinian Arabs, the descendants of the original Jews of
Palestine, DO NOT.
THEREFORE, the European Jews are free to bomb the defenseless
Palestinians at will.
>
>
>
> > -Al-- Hide quoted text -
RATS
It's not clear that there is (or has ever been) such resistance.
The PLO terrorists and the Hamas terrorists can not be defined as
"resistance" by any stretch of the imagination. Targeting civilians
deliberately, in order to murder helpless Israeli infants, pregnant
women, the elderly, and the handicapped has nothing to do with
resistance. It has more to do with racial intolerance of sorts. The
fanatic religious interpret their "books" in a specific way that suits
their fertile imagination and then murder members of other religions
in the name of their god. Posters like you twist these facts and report
these fanatics to be "resistance" fighters.
By your definition, Osama Ben Ladden is also a resistance fighter. His
religious beliefs drove him to murder in minutes 3000 civilians (from
all nations, including his own) in the U.S. These religious fanatics
have never been resistance fighters and never will be. They are cold
blooded killers that target civilians. Simple murderers that belong
either in prison, the morgue, or a cemetery. There is no other place
for such people (not on this planet.)
yousaybeus
> <flav...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> news:u5p8l.3582$Es4...@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 5-Jan-2009, yousaybeus <justrichardsmu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> On Jan 4, 8:12 pm, Alexander <Alexan...@thegreat.org> wrote:
> >> > drahcir wrote:
> >> > >On Jan 4, 8:41 am, "peace.seeker.27" <vesuvian.doppelga...@lycos.com>
> >> > >wrote:
>
> >> > >>The Gaza Strip is smaller than the
> >> > >> Isle of Wight but it is crammed with 1.5 million people
>
> >> > > bullshit?
>
>
> >> > > Population density of Gaza 4,118/km2
> >> > > Population density of Mumbai 22,658/km2
> >> > > Delhi 26276
> >> > > Jakarta 12738
> >> > > Dhaka 43752
>
> >> > > Unlike the others, the arabs CHOOSE to be where they are for
> >> > > political
> >> > > reasons. They could have been absorbed into other arab nations long
> >> > > ago.
>
>
>
>
> >> Your statement reveals nothing except the incredible ignorance,
> >> stupidity, and naivete of its author. The rest of your paragraph is no
> >> doubt equally worthless.
>
> > They just seem to get *dumber* every minute!!!
>
> Listen up, cohen.
>
> RATner has tried, (unsuccessfully) to draw conclusions about popoulation
> density using a country (Gaza) and a host of cities.
>
> Do you not see where he has fucked up? And fucked up BIG TIME?
Hey asshole, although the other asshole in this thread mentioned the
population of GAZA, not GAZA CITY, I thought you might be interested
in the population density of GAZA CITY in addition to Gaza:
Gaza City has a population of 400,000 and an area of 45km2. That
yields a density of 8889/km2.
http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Gaza
Now, asshole, what was that you were saying?
>
>
> > Susan
peace.seeker.27
> >http://www.ussliberty.com
>
> While you are at it, look up
> the massacre at the US Marine Barracks in Lebanon
What were US Marines doing in Lebanon?
Why were US warships shelling Lebanon?
Did the massacres at Sabra and Shatila have anything to do with this?
Why did the US guarantee the safety of the women and children in Sabra
and Shatila?
Why did Sharon order the massacre after the US guaranteed the
safety of the women and children in Sabra and Shatila? Answer:
Sharon never passed up an opportunity to massacre Palestinian
civilians.
Docky Wocky
"Breath-taking audacity" hardly does justice to the current American media.
I would expect it to take on a mantle of smothering domination soon, as the
more audacious exercise their writ.
Thanks to the sublime efforts of prescient left-wing team-members who have
been carrying the ball since 1929, us ignorant USA-type Westerners are going
to see a change in the hypocrisy level of our media, and just about everyone
else, as the coming administration shifts it's verbiage from pie-in-the-sky
to hard socialist reality.
The media, will change from mere outright, ass-kissing fawners to outright,
partisan, ass-kissing cadre - especially when all that CHANGE their
supremely audacious Messiah promised his boys begins to come on line.
I suspect we are witnessing the end of the Constitution and Bill of Rights,
and they didn't even have to cross any of it out - just make it a joke.