Holocaust Hero Who Saved Children Dies
J
by His Holiness Pope Pius XII. Together, Catholics all over war-torn Europe
helped the helpless Jews avert an even greater tragedy than what occurred.
http://news.aol.com/story/_a/holocaust-hero-who-saved-children-dies/20080512084809990002
Holocaust Hero Who Saved Children Dies
WARSAW, Poland (May 12) - Irena Sendler - a Polish social worker who helped
save some 2,500 Jewish children from the Nazis by smuggling them out of the
Warsaw Ghetto and giving them false identities - has died. She was 98.
Sendler died at a Warsaw hospital on Monday morning, her daughter, Janina
Zgrzembska, told The Associated Press. She had been hospitalized since last
month with pneumonia.
Born in Warsaw, Sendler served as a social worker with the city's welfare
department, masterminding the risky rescue operations of Jewish children
from the Warsaw Ghetto during Nazi Germany's brutal World War II occupation.
Records show that Sendler's team of some 20 people saved nearly 2,500
children from the Warsaw Ghetto between October 1940 and April 1943, when
the Nazis burned the ghetto, shooting the residents or sending them to death
camps.
Under the pretext of inspecting the ghetto's sanitary conditions during a
typhoid outbreak, Sendler and her assistants went inside in search of
children who could be smuggled out and given a chance of survival by living
as Catholics.
--
J
Jvis...@live.com
"How many human lives have you saved from death! Continue along this path
and do not be afraid, so that the smile of life may triumph on the lips of
all children and their mothers".
- His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI
Greywolf
"J" <Jvis...@live.com> wrote in message
news:1s7slm....@news.alt.net...
> When praying for Ms. Sendler, please remember all the lives that were
> saved by His Holiness Pope Pius XII. Together, Catholics all over war-torn
> Europe helped the helpless Jews avert an even greater tragedy than what
> occurred.
>
>
An extraordinary woman. Proved to care more for the Jewish innocents than
Jesus-God did.
That would be a 'God' who averted his eyes to the horrific
plight of his 'chosen people' in order to aid and abet really
bad, bad Catholic, Adolph Hitler.
Fortunate indeed that other Catholics showed more care,
compassion, and concern for members of the Jewish race
than 'perfect' deity possessed with boundless 'love' managed
to exhibit. Well one can suppose that something composed
of pure, perfect love can't be pure and perfect *every*
minute of the day. There's bound to be a lapse here and a
lapse there.
Oops. My mistake. That last bit would mean 'God'
is imperfect. He must have, therefore, *wanted* things to turn
out the way they did. Either that or he had no control over
matters. Or perhaps we should go even further and conclude
'He' doesn't exist.
Hmm. I wonder which of the three swipes at it is closest to the truth?
Hooray for the brave and noble Catholics. Hurrah for the Catholic
who despises religious intolerance.
Greywolf
----------------------
Who or what could possibly be more evil than the Creator of 'evil'?
I ask you. -- Greywolf : And guess who can turn that 'evil' into 'Good'? Why
we human beings -- *if* we put our hearts and minds to it!
Gwen
> When praying for Ms. Sendler, please remember all the lives that were saved
> by His Holiness Pope Pius XII. Together,
don't go there.
Leo Marx
>
> When praying for Ms. Sendler, please remember all the lives that were saved
> by His Holiness Pope Pius XII. Together, Catholics all over war-torn Europe
> helped the helpless Jews avert an even greater tragedy than what occurred.
>
Many individuals did much to help the people persecuted by the Nazis.
Pope Pius XII did nothing.
JAM
Spartakus
> When praying for Ms. Sendler, please remember all the lives that were saved
> by His Holiness Pope Pius XII. Together, Catholics all over war-torn Europe
> helped the helpless Jews avert an even greater tragedy than what occurred.
In 1933, Pius XII signed a concordat with Nazi Germany, effectively
making the Vatican an ally of Nazi Germany. This concordat was a
legally binding document in which the Vatican handed over the
direction of German Catholic churches to Hitler. German Catholic
priests and bishops had to swear allegiance to Hitler and the Third
Reich in order to continue serving the Church. Appointments of
bishops and archbishops in Germany were subject to the Nazi
government's approval. In effect, Pius XII signed over the souls of
43,000,000 German Catholics to Hitler.
Pius may have pulled strings in the background to save a few Jews from
the Nazis, but he made no public condemnation of what the Nazis were
doing (including sending Roman Jews to the camps) until it was safe to
do so. Whatever he was, he was not exactly a paragon of moral courage.
james g. keegan jr.
news:4378ccfd-a435-4c8c...@f24g2000prh.googlegroups.com:
how could he be? he was a roman catholic pope after all. can you name a
single one who was a paragon of moral courage?
--
"You tried to steal the identity of a James G. Keegan Jr. who did in
fact author a book, and you're trying to convince people that you are
the same person." -- corrupt prison clerk heishman lying as "Osprey"
in an effort to cover-up his earlier lie that i was not an author
<noneedtok...@mail.com>
in<v4qdndNQW_fFAMXanZ2dnUVZ_sOrn...@comcast.com>
Greywolf
> saved by His Holiness Pope Pius XII. Together, Catholics all over war-torn
> Europe helped the helpless Jews avert an even greater tragedy than what
> occurred.
>
>
I am so upset with myself that the reference to Pius the XII
failed to register with me.
Now one could argue that if he even saved ONE Jewish life
he should be held in high regard. But that just won't cut it
for someone who's alleged to be the 'Vicar of Christ'. He
had a monumental moral obligation to speak out on behalf of
the Jews -- as well as all the other innocents being ruthlessly
exterminated by the Nazis. What? Did he fail to have 'faith'
that 'God' would 'protect' him? Not very assuring if true, is it?
And was it not through the Vatican that some of the most
notorious, the most morally reprehensible Nazi war criminals
escaped due justice? No excuses. If he were executed for
speaking out -- which everyone Hitler would not *dare* do --
he at least have died a true martyr and more than worthy of
sainthood would that have been the case. But he *didn't*
choose to stand tall, did he? So efforts to 'glorify' him seem
rather out of place. He could have done much, much, more
and chose not to do so. So be it. Many another Catholic stood
tall in his place instead.
That's so infuriating about the Catholic faith, isn't it. You have
both 'angels' and 'devils' working side by side with each other.
With each 'side' getting blamed -- or the 'credit' -- for what the
other stands responsible for.
It was Catholic Colonel Claus von Stauffenberg who
unsuccessfully attempted to assassinate really bad, bad Catholic,
Adolph Hitler in East Prussia in July, 1944.
Seems 'God' wasn't particularly interested in help poor von
Stauffenberg and his accomplices out. Or am I completely out of
bounds here?
Greywolf
thomas p.
"Spartakus" <spar...@my-deja.com> skrev i en meddelelse
news:4378ccfd-a435-4c8c...@f24g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
The Church has tried to escuse itself by saying that it was not possible for
it to do anything against the power of Hitler. It destroyed that argument
by bragging about how a German bishop was responsible for forcing the German
government to stop their euthanasia program by having it publicly condemned
in all the churches under his authority. Apparently he did not think of
mentioning the mistreatment of the Jews. The Church's guilt in Germany is
more than the mere "sin of omission"; it knew it could do something but kept
silent.
AbAe...@hush.com
"No Christmas sermon reaches a larger congregation than the message
Pope Pius XII addresses to a war-torn world at this season. This
Christmas more than ever he is a lonely voice crying out of the
silence of a continent."
The New York Times, December 25, 1942
"I should like you to take this occasion to express to His Holiness my
deeply-felt appreciation of the frequent action which the Holy See has
taken on its own initiative in its generous and merciful efforts to
render assistance to the victims of racial and religious
persecutions."
Franklin D. Roosevelt to Myron C. Taylor, August 3, 1944
"When fearful martyrdom came to our people, the voice of the pope was
raised for its victims."
Golda Meir, Israeli Foreign (October 1958)
Spartakus
> Spartakus <sparta...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> > "J" <Jvisi...@live.com> wrote:
> > > When praying for Ms. Sendler, please remember all the lives that were saved
> > > by His Holiness Pope Pius XII. Together, Catholics all over war-torn Europe
> > > helped the helpless Jews avert an even greater tragedy than what occurred.
> > In 1933, Pius XII signed a concordat with Nazi Germany, effectively
> > making the Vatican an ally of Nazi Germany. This concordat was a
> > legally binding document in which the Vatican handed over the
> > direction of German Catholic churches to Hitler. German Catholic
> > priests and bishops had to swear allegiance to Hitler and the Third
> > Reich in order to continue serving the Church. Appointments of
> > bishops and archbishops in Germany were subject to the Nazi
> > government's approval. In effect, Pius XII signed over the souls of
> > 43,000,000 German Catholics to Hitler.
> >
> > Pius may have pulled strings in the background to save a few Jews from
> > the Nazis, but he made no public condemnation of what the Nazis were
> > doing (including sending Roman Jews to the camps) until it was safe to
> > do so. Whatever he was, he was not exactly a paragon of moral courage.
> "No Christmas sermon reaches a larger congregation than the message
> Pope Pius XII addresses to a war-torn world at this season. This
> Christmas more than ever he is a lonely voice crying out of the
> silence of a continent."
> The New York Times, December 25, 1942
Pah! The Pope said nothing and did nothing about the persecution of
the Jews until it was clear that the Allies would prevail over Germany
and Italy. That would have been in the fall of 1942.
> "I should like you to take this occasion to express to His Holiness my
> deeply-felt appreciation of the frequent action which the Holy See has
> taken on its own initiative in its generous and merciful efforts to
> render assistance to the victims of racial and religious
> persecutions."
> Franklin D. Roosevelt to Myron C. Taylor, August 3, 1944
What specific actions merited this extravagant praise?
> "When fearful martyrdom came to our people, the voice of the pope was
> raised for its victims."
> Golda Meir, Israeli Foreign (October 1958)
Kind words spoken on the occasion of Pius' death. Mostly undeserved.
If you are sincerely interested in the truth regarding Pius XII, I
invite you to read this:
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/pius.html
It is not a flattering portrait, even though the authors bend over
backwards to present both sides of the question.
bam
"Leo Marx" <Leo...@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:48299DD5...@nospam.net...
As if you know anything.
BAM
Spartakus
> "Leo Marx" <LeoM...@nospam.net> wrote...
> >J wrote:
> > Many individuals did much to help the people persecuted by the Nazis.
> > Pope Pius XII did nothing.
> As if you know anything.
If you want to split hairs, it would be more accurate to say that Pius
XII did *next* to nothing, and only when it became safe and
politically expedient to do so.
Btw, remember your challenging other posters to name an organization
that did more for the Jews than the Catholic Church? You sure got
handed your own ass on that one.
bam
"Spartakus" <spar...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:c8377f6f-d88e-4678...@f24g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
You guys are really exhausting. First name me one other person who did
anything, and then I'll show you how Pius XII did everything. It's
tiresome - everyone believes the bs until you slam the truth in their faces.
Why is that? Why do they believe the bs without even checking?
BAM
fla...@verizon.net
On 13-May-2008, "james g. keegan jr." <jgke...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Spartakus <spar...@my-deja.com> wrote in
> news:4378ccfd-a435-4c8c...@f24g2000prh.googlegroups.com:
>
> > "J" <Jvisi...@live.com> wrote:
> >
> >> When praying for Ms. Sendler, please remember all the lives that were
> >> saved by His Holiness Pope Pius XII. Together, Catholics all over
> >> war-torn Europe helped the helpless Jews avert an even greater tragedy
> >> than what occurred.
> >
> > In 1933, Pius XII signed a concordat with Nazi Germany, effectively
> > making the Vatican an ally of Nazi Germany. This concordat was a
> > legally binding document in which the Vatican handed over the
> > direction of German Catholic churches to Hitler. German Catholic
> > priests and bishops had to swear allegiance to Hitler and the Third
> > Reich in order to continue serving the Church. Appointments of
> > bishops and archbishops in Germany were subject to the Nazi
> > government's approval. In effect, Pius XII signed over the souls of
> > 43,000,000 German Catholics to Hitler.
> >
> > Pius may have pulled strings in the background to save a few Jews from
> > the Nazis, but he made no public condemnation of what the Nazis were
> > doing (including sending Roman Jews to the camps) until it was safe to
> > do so. Whatever he was, he was not exactly a paragon of moral courage.
>
>
> how could he be? he was a roman catholic pope after all. can you name a
> single one who was a paragon of moral courage?
Have you not been reading the thread?
It's *about* a woman who was *just that*.
& she did not have nearly the power of the Pope.
Susan
Spartakus
> "james g. keegan jr." <jgkee...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Spartakus <sparta...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> > > Pius may have pulled strings in the background to save a few Jews from
> > > the Nazis, but he made no public condemnation of what the Nazis were
> > > doing (including sending Roman Jews to the camps) until it was safe to
> > > do so. Whatever he was, he was not exactly a paragon of moral courage.
> > how could he be? he was a roman catholic pope after all. can you name a
> > single one who was a paragon of moral courage?
> Have you not been reading the thread?
> It's *about* a woman who was *just that*.
> & she did not have nearly the power of the Pope.
Did you not understand Keegan's question? He asked for the name of
any pope who was a paragon of moral courage. And if you look at the
original post, you will see that JYoung/IBen tried to equate Ms.
Sendler's undoubted moral courage with Pius XII's lack of same.
Moishe Lippschitz
<fla...@verizon.net> wrote in message news:OCtWj.154$LL.97@trnddc04...
>
> On 13-May-2008, "james g. keegan jr." <jgke...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Spartakus <spar...@my-deja.com> wrote in
>> news:4378ccfd-a435-4c8c...@f24g2000prh.googlegroups.com:
>>
>> > "J" <Jvisi...@live.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> When praying for Ms. Sendler, please remember all the lives that were
>> >> saved by His Holiness Pope Pius XII. Together, Catholics all over
>> >> war-torn Europe helped the helpless Jews avert an even greater tragedy
>> >> than what occurred.
>> >
>> > In 1933, Pius XII signed a concordat with Nazi Germany, effectively
>> > making the Vatican an ally of Nazi Germany. This concordat was a
>> > legally binding document in which the Vatican handed over the
>> > direction of German Catholic churches to Hitler. German Catholic
>> > priests and bishops had to swear allegiance to Hitler and the Third
>> > Reich in order to continue serving the Church. Appointments of
>> > bishops and archbishops in Germany were subject to the Nazi
>> > government's approval. In effect, Pius XII signed over the souls of
>> > 43,000,000 German Catholics to Hitler.
>> >
>> > Pius may have pulled strings in the background to save a few Jews from
>> > the Nazis, but he made no public condemnation of what the Nazis were
>> > doing (including sending Roman Jews to the camps) until it was safe to
>> > do so. Whatever he was, he was not exactly a paragon of moral courage.
He was under unofficial house arrest. He couldn't even leave the small area
of Vatican City. I'm sure you big mouth jews were very criticall of Hitler.
From the safety of Brooklyn haha
>> how could he be? he was a roman catholic pope after all. can you name a
>> single one who was a paragon of moral courage?
>
> Have you not been reading the thread?
> It's *about* a woman who was *just that*.
> & she did not have nearly the power of the Pope.
>
> Susan
You shouldn't even open your fat mouth paddy. You micks were Nazi
sympathizers.
gud...@yahoo.com
> "Leo Marx" <LeoM...@nospam.net> wrote in message
Brilliant refutation.
gud...@yahoo.com
> "Spartakus" <sparta...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
What truth have you presented? All you have done is to make an
assertion.
> Why is that? Why do they believe the bs without even checking?
No, we do not believe you, and you have presented no evidence.
james g. keegan jr.
did you try to cancel this post after you realized what you said? you did
catch the the comparison to pius xii did you not to say nothing of the
more important question, "can you name a single one who was a paragon of
moral courage?"
perhaps you were overtired when you posted?
Seahawk-Fan
1933, Adolf Hitler's motives were not known to the world and he was
regarded at that time (pre-war year) as the type of leader Germany
needed. If you recall, the Treaty of Versailles made things very
difficult for Germany, and throughout the years prior to WWII Hitler's
anger and rage. I'm not a Hitler sympathizer, in fact I think he was
one of the most evil men in all history; however, if you're going to
try to make some point about the pope and Hitler in 1933, make it fair
and keep in mind that nobody was aware of the "real" Hitler in that
time. He was looked upon as a hero at that time, especially by the
German people.
fla...@verizon.net
How can you say *I*m the one who missed naything?
This WHOLE THREAD is ABOUT a woman who WAS
a paragon of moral courage. **I** am NOT the one
who missed that, & *I* am not the one who is missing
the comparison of that woman to that pope.
Susan
Spartakus
> "Spartakus" <sparta...@my-deja.com> wrote...
> > If you want to split hairs, it would be more accurate to say that Pius
> > XII did *next* to nothing, and only when it became safe and
> > politically expedient to do so.
> >
> > Btw, remember your challenging other posters to name an organization
> > that did more for the Jews than the Catholic Church? You sure got
> > handed your own ass on that one.
> You guys are really exhausting. First name me one other person who did
> anything,
That's easy - Irena Sendler, a Polish woman who managed to help save
about 2500 Jewish children. She recently passed away at age 98. You
may have read something about that.
> and then I'll show you how Pius XII did everything.
You'd be lying.
> It's tiresome - everyone believes the bs until you slam the truth in their
> faces.
Indeed.
Spartakus
> <flav...@verizon.net> wrote:
> > "james g. keegan jr." <jgkee...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Spartakus <sparta...@my-deja.com> wrote :
> >> > Pius may have pulled strings in the background to save a few Jews from
> >> > the Nazis, but he made no public condemnation of what the Nazis were
> >> > doing (including sending Roman Jews to the camps) until it was safe to
> >> > do so. Whatever he was, he was not exactly a paragon of moral courage.
> He was under unofficial house arrest. He couldn't even leave the small area
> of Vatican City.
That's a new one. Where, pray tell, did you learn this?
Spartakus
> 1933, Adolf Hitler's motives were not known to the world and he was
> regarded at that time (pre-war year) as the type of leader Germany
> needed.
Except for a little book called "Mein Kampf", nobody knew anything at
all about Hitler's intentions.
"Once all the Germans were warlike and mean,
But that couldn't happen again.
We taught them a lesson in 1918,
And they've hardly bothered us since then."
-- Tom Lehrer
james g. keegan jr.
>
> On 14-May-2008, "james g. keegan jr." <jgke...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> fla...@verizon.net wrote in news:OCtWj.154$LL.97@trnddc04:
>>
>> >
>> > On 13-May-2008, "james g. keegan jr." <jgke...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Spartakus <spar...@my-deja.com> wrote in
>> >> news:4378ccfd-a435-4c8c-9681-
8700d5...@f24g2000prh.googlegroups.com:
i just did, others did too. i even explained it to you. did you not read
the thread or my response to you?
thomas p.
"Seahawk-Fan" <deseah...@hotmail.com> skrev i en meddelelse
news:0e62acbd-df7d-4274...@2g2000hsn.googlegroups.com...
His very aggressive hostility towards Jews was very clear in 1933. The only
thing that was not clear was how far he was willing to go. The Church in
Germany spoke out against euthanasia, but, except for the acts of individual
priests and laity on their own, the Church said and did nothing to help the
Jews out of their increasingly desperate situation.
K.W.
> When praying for Ms. Sendler, please remember all the lives that were saved
> by His Holiness Pope Pius XII. Together, Catholics all over war-torn Europe
> helped the helpless Jews avert an even greater tragedy than what occurred.
>
>
> Holocaust Hero Who Saved Children Dies
>
> WARSAW, Poland (May 12) - Irena Sendler - a Polish social worker who helped
> save some 2,500 Jewish children from the Nazis by smuggling them out of the
> Warsaw Ghetto and giving them false identities - has died. She was 98.
>
> Sendler died at a Warsaw hospital on Monday morning, her daughter, Janina
> Zgrzembska, told The Associated Press. She had been hospitalized since last
> month with pneumonia.
>
> Born in Warsaw, Sendler served as a social worker with the city's welfare
> department, masterminding the risky rescue operations of Jewish children
> from the Warsaw Ghetto during Nazi Germany's brutal World War II occupation.
>
> Records show that Sendler's team of some 20 people saved nearly 2,500
> children from the Warsaw Ghetto between October 1940 and April 1943, when
> the Nazis burned the ghetto, shooting the residents or sending them to death
> camps.
>
> Under the pretext of inspecting the ghetto's sanitary conditions during a
> typhoid outbreak, Sendler and her assistants went inside in search of
> children who could be smuggled out and given a chance of survival by living
> as Catholics.
>
> --
> J
> Jvisi...@live.com
>
> "How many human lives have you saved from death! Continue along this path
> and do not be afraid, so that the smile of life may triumph on the lips of
> all children and their mothers".
>
> - His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI
I would like to invite you to read my article on her:
http://newsblaze.com/story/20080513135832krzy.nb/newsblaze/WORLDNEW/story.html
SeahawkFan
"thomas p." <gud...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:482b0090$0$56771$edfa...@dtext02.news.tele.dk...
I'm doing more research on Pius XII. I know that he did live in Germany.
This much I have read so far, on his opinion of the Nazi's.
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/pius.html
Pacelli lived in Germany from 1917, when he was appointed Papal Nuncio in
Bavaria, until 1929. He knew what the Nazi party stood for, and was elected
Pope in 1939 having said very little about Adolf Hitler's ideology beyond a
1935 speech describing the Nazis as "miserable plagiarists who dress up old
errors with new tinsel." Pacelli told 250,000 pilgrims at Lourdes on April
28, "It does not make any difference whether they flock to the banners of
the social revolution, whether they are guided by a false conception of the
world and of life, or whether they are possessed by the superstition of a
race and blood cult."
I was just jumping in after briefly reading what Spartakus was saying, he
has a very bad habit of misrepresenting the facts and skewing things to fit
his own personal ideology.
SeahawkFan
"K.W." <krzys.wa...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:23662c77-4fe7-4894...@k13g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
Good article
james g. keegan jr.
news:47adnVTfMqQGmbbV...@comcast.com:
[...]
> I was just jumping in after briefly reading what Spartakus was saying,
> he has a very bad habit of misrepresenting the facts and skewing things
> to fit his own personal ideology.
really?
you have defined your own statement above as a "lie." should you not withdraw
it and apolgize (unless you are still the scumball liar you were when you
posted the lies shown in my .sig and hundreds of other malicious lies)?
Gwen
> "SeahawkFan" <deseahawk...@hotmail.com> wrote innews:47adnVTfMqQGmbbV...@comcast.com:
> [...]
>
> > I was just jumping in after briefly reading what Spartakus was saying,
> > he has a very bad habit of misrepresenting the facts and skewing things
> > to fit his own personal ideology.
>
> really?
Oh, heishman's referring to himself, as usual.
> you have defined your own statement above as a "lie." should you not withdraw
> it and apolgize (unless you are still the scumball liar you were when you
> posted the lies shown in my .sig and hundreds of other malicious lies)?
The good thing is that he can no longer post such things from the SoD
servers, anymore.
james g. keegan jr.
886184...@k1g2000prb.googlegroups.com:
> On May 14, 12:13 pm, "james g. keegan jr." <jgkee...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> "SeahawkFan" <deseahawk...@hotmail.com> wrote innews:47adnVTfMqQGmbbVnZ2dn
> UVZ_u...@comcast.com:
>> [...]
>>
>> > I was just jumping in after briefly reading what Spartakus was
>> > saying, he has a very bad habit of misrepresenting the facts and
>> > skewing things to fit his own personal ideology.
>>
>> really?
>
> Oh, heishman's referring to himself, as usual.
>
>> you have defined your own statement above as a "lie." should you not
>> withdraw it and apolgize (unless you are still the scumball liar you
>> were when you posted the lies shown in my .sig and hundreds of other
>> malicious lies)?
>
> The good thing is that he can no longer post such things from the SoD
> servers, anymore.
yeah. it's good he can no longer embarrass an already troubled organization.
it's amusing to watch him make claims that even he defines as lies.
bam
> > If you want to split hairs, it would be more accurate to say that Pius
> > XII did *next* to nothing, and only when it became safe and
> > politically expedient to do so.
> >
> > Btw, remember your challenging other posters to name an organization
> > that did more for the Jews than the Catholic Church? You sure got
> > handed your own ass on that one.
> You guys are really exhausting. First name me one other person who did
> anything,
>That's easy - Irena Sendler, a Polish woman who managed to help save
>about 2500 Jewish children. She recently passed away at age 98. You
>may have read something about that.
Hmmmm...another Catholic, whaddya know? Got any more?
BAM
Spartakus
> "Spartakus" <sparta...@my-deja.com> wrote...
> > "bam" <mcca5b...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> > > "Spartakus" <sparta...@my-deja.com> wrote...
> > > > If you want to split hairs, it would be more accurate to say that Pius
> > > > XII did *next* to nothing, and only when it became safe and
> > > > politically expedient to do so.
> > > >
> > > > Btw, remember your challenging other posters to name an organization
> > > > that did more for the Jews than the Catholic Church? You sure got
> > > > handed your own ass on that one.
> > > You guys are really exhausting. First name me one other person who did
> > > anything,
> >That's easy - Irena Sendler, a Polish woman who managed to help save
> >about 2500 Jewish children. She recently passed away at age 98. You
> >may have read something about that.
> Hmmmm...another Catholic, whaddya know? Got any more?
"Individual Catholic" != "Catholic Church", and especially != "Holy
See". Thanks for playing.
thomas p.
"bam" <mcca...@bellsouth.net> skrev i en meddelelse
news:RiLWj.4543$255...@bignews8.bellsouth.net...
Do you have any examples of the Church itself doing anything? Nobody denied
that individual Catholics helped on their own.
fla...@verizon.net
> > How can you say *I*m the one who missed anything?
>
>
> i just did,
So why did you ask someone to "name a single one who was
a paragon of moral courage?" Who was the thread about, if it
wasn't "a single one who was a paragon of moral courage"?
> others did too. i even explained it to you.
How could you have explained anything to me when you were the one
who asked the question, You explained nonthing.
> did you not read
> the thread or my response to you?
I was the one who POSTED the *origin* of the thread, & your
response to me what to pretend that I was the one who had
asked the question that *ignored* the origin of the thread.
That was *you*.
Susan
fla...@verizon.net
He only just RENAMED the person who the thread was about in the first place.
Susan
james g. keegan jr.
> On 14-May-2008, "james g. keegan jr." <jgke...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> did you not read the thread or my response to you?
>
> I was the one who POSTED the *origin* of the thread,
that's a pretty weak apology for your faulure to have followed its
developments and for your having misrepresented it's content.
fla...@verizon.net
On 15-May-2008, "james g. keegan jr." <jgke...@gmail.com> wrote:
> fla...@verizon.net wrote in news:%aPWj.12803$lj.11696@trnddc01:
>
> > On 14-May-2008, "james g. keegan jr." <jgke...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> did you not read the thread or my response to you?
> >
> > I was the one who POSTED the *origin* of the thread,
>
> that's a pretty weak apology for your faulure to have followed its
> developments and for your having misrepresented it's content.
Yes, your post was just that.
& the fact that you snipped everything that I posted
which proved that you weren't paying attention & that
I was only shows that you know it, too.
Susan
james g. keegan jr.
>
> On 15-May-2008, "james g. keegan jr." <jgke...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> fla...@verizon.net wrote in news:%aPWj.12803$lj.11696@trnddc01:
>>
>> > On 14-May-2008, "james g. keegan jr." <jgke...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> did you not read the thread or my response to you?
>> >
>> > I was the one who POSTED the *origin* of the thread,
>>
>> that's a pretty weak apology for your faulure to have followed its
>> developments and for your having misrepresented it's content.
>
> Yes,
try to do better next time.
Gwen
> Gwen <bennetwitho...@gmail.com> wrote in news:f856f732-7760-4760-8ae4-
> 886184e2b...@k1g2000prb.googlegroups.com:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 14, 12:13 pm, "james g. keegan jr." <jgkee...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> "SeahawkFan" <deseahawk...@hotmail.com> wrote innews:47adnVTfMqQGmbbVnZ2dn
> >> [...]
>
> >> > I was just jumping in after briefly reading what Spartakus was
> >> > saying, he has a very bad habit of misrepresenting the facts and
> >> > skewing things to fit his own personal ideology.
>
> >> really?
>
> > Oh, heishman's referring to himself, as usual.
>
> >> you have defined your own statement above as a "lie." should you not
> >> withdraw it and apolgize (unless you are still the scumball liar you
> >> were when you posted the lies shown in my .sig and hundreds of other
> >> malicious lies)?
>
> > The good thing is that he can no longer post such things from the SoD
> > servers, anymore.
>
> yeah. it's good he can no longer embarrass an already troubled organization.
I could care less abou the corrupt organization, as it's done enough
to bring bad publicity on its own without Heishman's help.
I just enjoy annoyingly reminding osprey about the revocation of his
internet priviliges to post to USENET while on the State's time, dime,
and server.
HAHAHA.
> it's amusing to watch him make claims that even he defines as lies.
It's a daily occurence.
> --
> "You tried to steal the identity of a James G. Keegan Jr. who did in
> fact author a book, and you're trying to convince people that you are
> the same person." -- corrupt prison clerk heishman lying as "Osprey"
> in an effort to cover-up his earlier lie that i was not an author
> <noneedtok...@mail.com>
> in<v4qdndNQW_fFAMXanZ2dnUVZ_sOrn...@comcast.com>- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
bam
What do you mean, "The Church itself"? A building? An Institution. Neither
speak. Persons speak. Representatives of the Church do things.
Before I bury you, how about some Protestant churches or Jewish
organizations that helped the Jews, please.
Rabbi Herzog, Chief Rabbi of Jerusalem:
"The people of Israel will never forget what His Holiness and his
illustrious delegates, inspired by the eternal principles of religion
which
form the very foundations of true civilization, are doing for us
unfortunate brothers and sisters in the most tragic hour of our
history,
which is living proof of divine Providence in this world."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jeno Levai, the foremost scholar of the Holocaust in Hungary, said
that
Pope Pius XII "did more than anyone else to halt the dreadful crime
and
alleviate its consequences."
AND
"From that day on, acting in accordance with the instructions of the
Holy
See and always in the name of Pius XII, the Nuncio never ceased from
intervening against the disposition concerning Jews, and the inhuman
character of the anti-Jewish Legislation."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Emilio Zolli, chief rabbi in Rome during the German occupation:
"no hero in all of history was more militant, more fought against,
none
more heroic, than Pius XII."
Zolli was so moved by Pius XII's work that, when he became converted
to
Catholicism after the war, he took the Pope's name as his baptismal
name.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
On Christmas eve of 1941 and 1942, the New York Times praised Pius XII
as a
"lonely voice crying out of the silence of a continent."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Albert Einstein noted that to prevent the Holocaust, "only the Church
stood squarely across the path of Hitler's campaign for suppressing
the
truth."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Chaim Weizmann, first president of Israel (1949-52), writing during
the war:
"The Holy See is lending its powerful help wherever it can, to
mitigate the
fate of my persecuted coreligionists."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Moshe Sharett, Israel's first foreign minister and second prime
minister, upon meeting Pope Pius XII during the war:
"I told [the Pope] that my first duty was to thank him, and through
him,
the Catholic Church, on behalf of the Jewish public, for all they had
done
in various countries to save Jews, to save children, and Jews in
general.
We are deeply grateful to the Catholic Church."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Pinchas E. Lapide, Israeli consul in Italy for a number of years:
"The Catholic Church saved more Jewish lives during the war than all
the
other churches, religious institutions, and rescue organizations put
together. Its record stands in startling contrast to the achievements
of
the International Red Cross and the Western Democracies....The Holy
See,
the Nuncios and the entire Catholic Church saved some 400,000 Jews
from
certain death."
[The latter figure has been recognized by the state of Israel with the
planting of over 400,000 trees in remembrance of the efforts of the
Vatican
and the Catholic Church.]
"When an armed force ruled well-nigh omnipotent, and morality was at
its
lowest ebb, Pius XII commanded none of the former and could only
appeal to
the latter, in confronting, with bare hands, the full might of evil. A
sounding protest, which might turn out to be self-thwarting - or quiet
piecemeal rescue? Loud words or prudent deeds? The dilemma must have
been
sheer agony, for whatever course he chose, horrible consequences were
inevitable. Unable to cure the sickness of an entire civilization, and
unwilling to bear the brunt of Hitler's fury, the Pope, unlike many
far
mightier than he, alleviated, relieved, retrieved, appealed,
petitioned and
saved as best he could by his own lights. Who, but a prophet or a
martyr
could have done much more?"
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Pope Pius XII, in fact, showed admirable prudence in his decisions
to
help suffering souls. He was faced with the dilemma of protesting too
much
and thereby increasing the persecutions of hostages and prisoners as
he
actively worked to prevent more people from being incarcerated. The
words
of Pope Pius XII reflect this:
"Every word that We addressed to the responsible authorities and every
one
of Our public declarations had to be seriously weighed and considered
in
the interest of the persecuted themselves in order to not make their
situation unwittingly even more difficult and unbearable."
Of course, the cynical anti-Christian who is against the Catholic
Church
will not look at the prudence of the over-all picture. They will find
some
isolated negative incidents and seek to blame the Church. When Jews
are
incarcerated and killed they ignore those who are saved and
immediately
blame the Church for not protesting enough. Yet, when the Church makes
some
protests and evil men take it out on some who are imprisoned, others
will
blame the Church for protesting too much, rather than putting the
blame on
the evil men doing the actual persecuting! A Jewish couple, and a
Catholic
priest, both at one time in a concentration camp, can attest to this
dilemma which can never be avoided when dealing with an evil enemy:
Mr. & Mrs. Wolfsson of Berlin, a Jewish couple who, after being in
prison and concentration camps, took shelter in a German convent of
nuns.
Pope Pius XII had an audience with them and arranged for them to
escape to
Spain. Long afterwards the Wolfssons declared:
"None of us wanted the Pope to take an open stand. We were all
fugitives,
and fugitives do not wish to be pointed at. The Gestapo would have
become
more excited and would have intensified its inquisitions. If the Pope
had
protested, Rome would have become the center of attention....We all
shared
this opinion and this is still our conviction today."
A former inmate of Dachau, Mgr. Jean Bernard, who later became
Bishop of
Luxembourg, said:
"The detained priests trembled every time news reached us of some
protest
by a religious authority, but particularly by the Vatican. We all had
the
impression that our warders made us atone heavily for the fury these
protests evoked....whenever the way we were treated became more
brutal, the
Protestant pastors among the prisoners used to vent their indignation
on
the Catholic priests: 'Again your big naive Pope and those
simpletons,
your bishops, are shooting their mouths off...why don't they get the
idea
once and for all, and shut up. They play the heroes and we have to pay
the
bill.'"
bam
"thomas p." <gud...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:482bb287$0$56773$edfa...@dtext02.news.tele.dk...
>
March 23, 2000
JERUSALEM, (ZENIT).- Today will be an unforgettable day for Edith Zirer, a
Jewish woman who was born in Poland but who has lived in Haifa for decades.
At last, in the Yad Vashem Memorial to the Holocaust, she will be able to
personally thank Karol Wojtyla, (Pope John Paul II)----the man who saved her
life 55 years ago, she said.
At that time, Edith Zirer said: "I remember perfectly well. I was a 13 year
old girl, alone, sick, and weak. I had spent 3 years in a German
concentration camp at the point of death. And, like an angel, Karol Wojtyla
saved my life; like a dream from heaven: he gave me something to drink and
eat and then carried me on his back some 4 kilometers in the snow, before
catching the train to safety."
Edith Zirer tells the story as if it had happened yesterday. It was a cold
morning in early February, 1945. The young Jew, who was not yet aware that
she was the only member of her family to survive the Nazi massacre, let a
tall, strong 25-year-old, tonsured seminarian carry her and give her a ray
of hope.
"On January 28, 1945 Russian soldiers liberated the Hassak concentration
camp, where I had been imprisoned for almost 3 years, working in a munitions
factory. I felt confused, I was prostrated with illness. Two days later I
arrived at a small railway station between Czestochowa and Krakow." At this
time, Wojtyla was in Krakow preparing for his priestly ordination.
"I was sure I would arrive at the end of my journey. I was lying on the
ground, in the corner of a large hall where dozens of refugees were
gathering, the majority of whom still wore uniforms with the numbers of the
concentration camps. Then Wojtyla saw me. He came with a big cup of tea, the
first hot beverage I had had in weeks. Then he brought me a cheese sandwich
made with Polish rye bread, wonderful. But I didn't want to eat. I was too
tired. He made me eat. Then he told me I would have to walk to catch the
train. I tried, but I fell down on the ground. He then took me in his arms
and carried me for a long time. All the while the snow fell. I remember his
brown jacket, the tranquil voice who told me about his parents' death, and
his brother's, the loneliness he felt, and the need not to be overcome by
sorrow and to fight for life. His name was indelibly imprinted in my
memory."
When they finally arrived at the convoy that would take the prisoners to the
West, Edith met a Jewish family who alerted her: "Be careful, priests try to
convert Jewish children." She was afraid and hid. "Only later did I
understand that all he wanted to do was to help me. Now I want to thank him
personally," she said.
BAM
gud...@yahoo.com
> "thomas p." <gudl...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:482bb287$0$56773$edfa...@dtext02.news.tele.dk...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > "bam" <mcca5b...@bellsouth.net> skrev i en meddelelse
> >news:RiLWj.4543$255...@bignews8.bellsouth.net...
>
> >> "Spartakus" <sparta...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> >>news:5cbf54dc-1997-4384...@q24g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> >> "bam" <mcca5b...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> >>> "Spartakus" <sparta...@my-deja.com> wrote...
>
> >>> > If you want to split hairs, it would be more accurate to say that Pius
> >>> > XII did *next* to nothing, and only when it became safe and
> >>> > politically expedient to do so.
>
> >>> > Btw, remember your challenging other posters to name an organization
> >>> > that did more for the Jews than the Catholic Church? You sure got
> >>> > handed your own ass on that one.
>
> >>> You guys are really exhausting. First name me one other person who did
> >>> anything,
>
> >>>That's easy - Irena Sendler, a Polish woman who managed to help save
> >>>about 2500 Jewish children. She recently passed away at age 98. You
> >>>may have read something about that.
>
> >> Hmmmm...another Catholic, whaddya know? Got any more?
>
> >> BAM
>
> > Do you have any examples of the Church itself doing anything? Nobody
> > denied that individual Catholics helped on their own.
>
> What do you mean, "The Church itself"? A building? An Institution. Neither
> speak. Persons speak. Representatives of the Church do things.
You have a genius for stating the obvious. Name one Church authority
speaking for the Church either in Germany or the Vatican who spoke out
against the treatment of the Jews in the same manner, for example, as
it did against Germany's euthanasia program.
snip
gud...@yahoo.com
> "thomas p." <gudl...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:482bb287$0$56773$edfa...@dtext02.news.tele.dk...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > "bam" <mcca5b...@bellsouth.net> skrev i en meddelelse
> >news:RiLWj.4543$255...@bignews8.bellsouth.net...
>
> >> "Spartakus" <sparta...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> >>news:5cbf54dc-1997-4384...@q24g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> >> "bam" <mcca5b...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> >>> "Spartakus" <sparta...@my-deja.com> wrote...
>
> >>> > If you want to split hairs, it would be more accurate to say that Pius
> >>> > XII did *next* to nothing, and only when it became safe and
> >>> > politically expedient to do so.
>
> >>> > Btw, remember your challenging other posters to name an organization
> >>> > that did more for the Jews than the Catholic Church? You sure got
> >>> > handed your own ass on that one.
>
> >>> You guys are really exhausting. First name me one other person who did
> >>> anything,
>
> >>>That's easy - Irena Sendler, a Polish woman who managed to help save
> >>>about 2500 Jewish children. She recently passed away at age 98. You
> >>>may have read something about that.
>
> >> Hmmmm...another Catholic, whaddya know? Got any more?
>
> >> BAM
>
> > Do you have any examples of the Church itself doing anything? Nobody
> > denied that individual Catholics helped on their own.
Below you give another example of individuals doing something.
> BAM- Skjul tekst i anførselstegn -
>
> - Vis tekst i anførselstegn -
Spartakus
> "thomas p." <gudl...@yahoo.com> wrote...
> > "bam" <mcca5b...@bellsouth.net> skrev...
> >> "Spartakus" <sparta...@my-deja.com> wrote...
> >>> > If you want to split hairs, it would be more accurate to say that Pius
> >>> > XII did *next* to nothing, and only when it became safe and
> >>> > politically expedient to do so.
> >>> >
> >>> > Btw, remember your challenging other posters to name an organization
> >>> > that did more for the Jews than the Catholic Church? You sure got
> >>> > handed your own ass on that one.
> >>> You guys are really exhausting. First name me one other person who did
> >>> anything,
> >>>That's easy - Irena Sendler, a Polish woman who managed to help save
> >>>about 2500 Jewish children. She recently passed away at age 98. You
> >>>may have read something about that.
> >> Hmmmm...another Catholic, whaddya know? Got any more?
> > Do you have any examples of the Church itself doing anything? Nobody
> > denied that individual Catholics helped on their own.
> What do you mean, "The Church itself"? A building? An Institution. Neither
> speak. Persons speak. Representatives of the Church do things.
What the hell is this??? I thought you were a faithful Catholic,
bam. And here you are throwing Catholic doctrine under the bus in the
name of expedience. I've seen some desperate debating tactics in my
day, and this one takes the cake.
> Before I bury you, how about some Protestant churches or Jewish
> organizations that helped the Jews, please.
How about something a little more credible than your collection of
bullshit testimonials?
fla...@verizon.net
On 15-May-2008, "james g. keegan jr." <jgke...@gmail.com> wrote:
> lav...@verizon.net wrote in news:7J0Xj.36844$Au2.4348@trnddc07:
>
> >
> > On 15-May-2008, "james g. keegan jr." <jgke...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> fla...@verizon.net wrote in news:%aPWj.12803$lj.11696@trnddc01:
> >>
> >> > On 14-May-2008, "james g. keegan jr." <jgke...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> did you not read the thread or my response to you?
> >> >
> >> > I was the one who POSTED the *origin* of the thread,
> >>
> >> that's a pretty weak apology for your faulure to have followed its
> >> developments and for your having misrepresented it's content.
> >
Then do better next time.
>
> > Yes,
>
> try to do better next time.
Pathetically snipping everything that proves you are wrong
& that I am right is only making you look even lamer.
Susan
james g. keegan jr.
> Pathetically snipping
actually, i was trying to save you more public humiliation.
you misread and erred. i pointed that out, as did startacus, and perhaps
others.
for whatever reason, instead of correcting yourself, you adopted attack mode
and made a fool of yourself.
i was asked to treat you kindly and see if you finally corrected yoruself.
clearly, that is beyond you.
previously, i had interpreted a number of attacks on you as personal. now, i
see there were good reasons for people to treat you like a sleazeball since
that is how you conduct yourself.
Gwen
> "Spartakus" <sparta...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
>
> news:c8377f6f-d88e-4678...@f24g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > "bam" <mcca5b...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> >> "Leo Marx" <LeoM...@nospam.net> wrote...
> >> >J wrote:
>
> >> > Many individuals did much to help the people persecuted by the Nazis.
>
> >> > Pope Pius XII did nothing.
>
> >> As if you know anything.
>
> > If you want to split hairs, it would be more accurate to say that Pius
> > XII did *next* to nothing, and only when it became safe and
> > politically expedient to do so.
>
> > Btw, remember your challenging other posters to name an organization
> > that did more for the Jews than the Catholic Church? You sure got
> > handed your own ass on that one.
>
> You guys are really exhausting. First name me one other person who did
> tiresome - everyone believes the bs until you slam the truth in their faces.
> Why is that? Why do they believe the bs without even checking?
>
> BAM- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
People can read.
Gwen
> On 14 Maj, 04:06, "bam" <mcca5b...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Leo Marx" <LeoM...@nospam.net> wrote in message
>
> >news:48299DD5...@nospam.net...
>
> > >J wrote:
>
> > >> When praying for Ms. Sendler, please remember all the lives that were
> > >> saved
> > >> by His Holiness Pope Pius XII. Together, Catholics all over war-torn
> > >> Europe
> > >> helped the helpless Jews avert an even greater tragedy than what
> > >> occurred.
>
>
> > > Pope Pius XII did nothing.
>
> > As if you know anything.
>
>
> Brilliant refutation.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
The only one an obvious idiot could come up with.
Gwen
> On 14-May-2008, "bam" <mcca5b...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Spartakus" <sparta...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
>
> - Show quoted text -
It was never about Ms. Sendler, actually. It was J's way of inciting
the very confusion and anger and arguments he usually does when
topping shit like "...by His Holiness Pope Pius XII" and utterly
destroying the memorial of the Holocaust Hero. That was his point -
not that she was deserving of any attention.
Gwen
> On 13-May-2008, "james g. keegan jr." <jgkee...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Spartakus <sparta...@my-deja.com> wrote in
>
> > > "J" <Jvisi...@live.com> wrote:
>
> > >> When praying for Ms. Sendler, please remember all the lives that were
> > >> saved by His Holiness Pope Pius XII. Together, Catholics all over
> > >> war-torn Europe helped the helpless Jews avert an even greater tragedy
> > >> than what occurred.
>
> > > making the Vatican an ally of Nazi Germany. This concordat was a
> > > legally binding document in which the Vatican handed over the
> > > direction of German Catholic churches to Hitler. German Catholic
> > > priests and bishops had to swear allegiance to Hitler and the Third
> > > Reich in order to continue serving the Church. Appointments of
> > > bishops and archbishops in Germany were subject to the Nazi
> > > government's approval. In effect, Pius XII signed over the souls of
> > > 43,000,000 German Catholics to Hitler.
>
> > > Pius may have pulled strings in the background to save a few Jews from
> > > the Nazis, but he made no public condemnation of what the Nazis were
> > > doing (including sending Roman Jews to the camps) until it was safe to
> > > do so. Whatever he was, he was not exactly a paragon of moral courage.
>
> > how could he be? he was a roman catholic pope after all. can you name a
> > single one who was a paragon of moral courage?
>
> Have you not been reading the thread?
I have. And, I have read the article.
> It's *about* a woman who was *just that*.
The article that J linked to his original post is about her. In his
post, however, it was J's point to disparage jews by hereoizing an aid
to Hitler. It was Spartakus' point to point this out the devilry in
which this monster was involved and that any recognition by the chuch
now for her servitude to these jews hw claims is a crock of patent
porcine shit. Read the article and see that she was never truly
venerated for her service to humanity until she was left in an old age
home to die. SO much for the corrupt catholic church and their concern
for humanity, eh>
This is exactly the kind of emotion that jackass J wanted to incite.
> & she did not have nearly the power of the Pope.
> Susan- Hide quoted text -
Gwen
> > > > Pius may have pulled strings in the background to save a few Jews from
> > > > the Nazis, but he made no public condemnation of what the Nazis were
> > > > doing (including sending Roman Jews to the camps) until it was safe to
> > > > do so. Whatever he was, he was not exactly a paragon of moral courage.
> > > how could he be? he was a roman catholic pope after all. can you name a
> > > single one who was a paragon of moral courage?
> > Have you not been reading the thread?
>
> any pope who was a paragon of moral courage. And if you look at the
> original post, you will see that JYoung/IBen tried to equate Ms.
> Sendler's undoubted moral courage with Pius XII's lack of same.
Indeed. You know why J did it, too.
Gwen
> flav...@verizon.net wrote innews:OCtWj.154$LL.97@trnddc04:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 13-May-2008, "james g. keegan jr." <jgkee...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> Spartakus <sparta...@my-deja.com> wrote in
> >>news:4378ccfd-a435-4c8c...@f24g2000prh.googlegroups.com:
>
> >> > "J" <Jvisi...@live.com> wrote:
>
> >> >> When praying for Ms. Sendler, please remember all the lives that
> >> >> were saved by His Holiness Pope Pius XII. Together, Catholics all
> >> >> over war-torn Europe helped the helpless Jews avert an even greater
> >> >> tragedy than what occurred.
>
> >> > In 1933, Pius XII signed a concordat with Nazi Germany, effectively
> >> > making the Vatican an ally of Nazi Germany. This concordat was a
> >> > legally binding document in which the Vatican handed over the
> >> > direction of German Catholic churches to Hitler. German Catholic
> >> > priests and bishops had to swear allegiance to Hitler and the Third
> >> > Reich in order to continue serving the Church. Appointments of
> >> > bishops and archbishops in Germany were subject to the Nazi
> >> > government's approval. In effect, Pius XII signed over the souls of
> >> > 43,000,000 German Catholics to Hitler.
>
> >> > from the Nazis, but he made no public condemnation of what the Nazis
> >> > were doing (including sending Roman Jews to the camps) until it was
> >> > safe to do so. Whatever he was, he was not exactly a paragon of
> >> > moral courage.
>
> >> how could he be? he was a roman catholic pope after all. can you name a
> >> single one who was a paragon of moral courage?
>
> > Have you not been reading the thread?
> > It's *about* a woman who was *just that*.
> > & she did not have nearly the power of the Pope.
>
> catch the the comparison to pius xii did you not to say nothing of the
> moral courage?"
I did. It was easy.
> perhaps you were overtired when you posted?
We all know why J did it.
> --
> "You tried to steal the identity of a James G. Keegan Jr. who did in
> fact author a book, and you're trying to convince people that you are
> the same person." -- corrupt prison clerk heishman lying as "Osprey"
> in an effort to cover-up his earlier lie that i was not an author
> <noneedtok...@mail.com>
> in<v4qdndNQW_fFAMXanZ2dnUVZ_sOrn...@comcast.com>- Hide quoted text -
Gwen
>
> This WHOLE THREAD is ABOUT a woman who WAS
> a paragon of moral courage.
No - the article was about a *forgotten* saviour who's name was being
trasjhed by J by comparing her to a monster.
> **I** am NOT the one
> who missed that, & *I* am not the one who is missing
> the comparison of that woman to that pope.
It's obvious the woman was a hero and that the pope at the time was
evil. Nobody's doubting you there.
> Susan- Hide quoted text -
Gwen
> On 14-May-2008, "james g. keegan jr." <jgkee...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > > On 14-May-2008, "james g. keegan jr." <jgkee...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > >> flav...@verizon.net wrote innews:OCtWj.154$LL.97@trnddc04:
>
> > >> > On 13-May-2008, "james g. keegan jr." <jgkee...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > >> >> Spartakus <sparta...@my-deja.com> wrote in
> > 8700d5902...@f24g2000prh.googlegroups.com:
Actually, it was about the Pope, according to J young. he found some
forgotten savior's name linked with saving jewish children and decided
to have a good time by making everybody angry and upset.
> > did you not read
> > the thread or my response to you?
>
> I was the one who POSTED the *origin* of the thread, & your
> response to me what to pretend that I was the one who had
> asked the question that *ignored* the origin of the thread.
> That was *you*.
What's the issue here?
Gwen
> On 15-May-2008, "james g. keegan jr." <jgkee...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > lav...@verizon.net wrote innews:7J0Xj.36844$Au2.4348@trnddc07:
>
> > > On 15-May-2008, "james g. keegan jr." <jgkee...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > >> flav...@verizon.net wrote innews:%aPWj.12803$lj.11696@trnddc01:
>
> > >> > On 14-May-2008, "james g. keegan jr." <jgkee...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> >> did you not read the thread or my response to you?
>
> > >> > I was the one who POSTED the *origin* of the thread,
>
> > >> that's a pretty weak apology for your faulure to have followed its
> > >> developments and for your having misrepresented it's content.
>
> Then do better next time.
>
>
>
> > > Yes,
>
> > try to do better next time.
>
> Pathetically snipping everything that proves you are wrong
> & that I am right is only making you look even lamer.
Right that he snips out what he doesn't want to repost or that you
simply misunderstood something because of somebody's else's crap. It's
ok - I have made dozens of my own mistakes, but it's nothing to take
personally.
> Susan
Gwen
>
> - Show quoted text -
Or about any comparison.
he doesn't give a fuck. He's being his usual fuck self.
Gwen
> On May 13, 11:15 am, Spartakus <sparta...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "J" <Jvisi...@live.com> wrote:
> > > When praying for Ms. Sendler, please remember all the lives that were saved
> > > by His Holiness Pope Pius XII. Together, Catholics all over war-torn Europe
> > > helped the helpless Jews avert an even greater tragedy than what occurred.
>
> > In 1933, Pius XII signed a concordat with Nazi Germany, effectively
> > making the Vatican an ally of Nazi Germany. This concordat was a
> > legally binding document in which the Vatican handed over the
> > direction of German Catholic churches to Hitler. German Catholic
> > priests and bishops had to swear allegiance to Hitler and the Third
> > Reich in order to continue serving the Church. Appointments of
> > bishops and archbishops in Germany were subject to the Nazi
> > government's approval. In effect, Pius XII signed over the souls of
> > 43,000,000 German Catholics to Hitler.
>
> > Pius may have pulled strings in the background to save a few Jews from
> > the Nazis, but he made no public condemnation of what the Nazis were
> > doing (including sending Roman Jews to the camps) until it was safe to
> > do so. Whatever he was, he was not exactly a paragon of moral courage.
>
> Pope Pius XII addresses to a war-torn world at this season. This
> Christmas more than ever he is a lonely voice crying out of the
> silence of a continent."
> The New York Times, December 25, 1942
>
> "I should like you to take this occasion to express to His Holiness my
> deeply-felt appreciation of the frequent action which the Holy See has
> taken on its own initiative in its generous and merciful efforts to
> render assistance to the victims of racial and religious
> persecutions."
> Franklin D. Roosevelt to Myron C. Taylor, August 3, 1944
>
> "When fearful martyrdom came to our people, the voice of the pope was
> raised for its victims."
> Golda Meir, Israeli Foreign (October 1958)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
What difference would this make in my life, knowing this? And, what
does this prove? Nada.
Gwen
> DiseasedHawk <deseahawk...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > 1933, Adolf Hitler's motives were not known to the world and he was
> > regarded at that time (pre-war year) as the type of leader Germany
> > needed.
>
> Except for a little book called "Mein Kampf", nobody knew anything at
> all about Hitler's intentions.
Indeed.
> "Once all the Germans were warlike and mean,
> But that couldn't happen again.
> We taught them a lesson in 1918,
> And they've hardly bothered us since then."
> -- Tom Lehrer
bam
<gud...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:f06b1a9b-dd5d-4050...@l64g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
http://soli.inav.net/~jfischer/oct98/ronaldrychlak.html
BAM
snip
bam
You're not the credibility judge. You've just been buried and all you can do
is curse.
BAM
thomas p.
"bam" <mcca...@bellsouth.net> skrev i en meddelelse
news:J5NXj.35683$7a....@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
So you have no such examples.
thomas p.
You are completely unable to provide examples of the Church doing anything
to stop the mistreatment of Jews, yet you declare victory. Nice fantasy
world you live in.
fla...@verizon.net
On 16-May-2008, "james g. keegan jr." <jgke...@gmail.com> wrote:
> fla...@verizon.net wrote in news:mJjXj.1201$dh.114@trnddc05:
>
> > Pathetically snipping
>
> actually, i was trying to save you more public humiliation.
There can't be "more" when there was none for me to begin with.
YOU were the one who asked about the lone example of Catholic
moral courage when the entire thread was about just that.
>
> you misread and erred
You lie.
You misread, you erred.
YOU were the one who asked about the lone example of Catholic
moral courage when the entire thread was about just that.
. i pointed that out, as did startacus, and perhaps
> others.
>
Another lie.
I misread nothing & certainly no one else has said so.
> for whatever reason, instead of correcting yourself, you adopted attack
> mode
> and made a fool of yourself.
Another lie - this is what you did.
YOU were the one who asked about the lone example of Catholic
moral courage when the entire thread was about just that, & when
i pointed this out, you not only got furious, you lied and snipped the
proof - just as I am certain you will do now.
>
> i was asked to treat you kindly
You failed.
You lied, you attacked & you deliberately snipped the proof
that it was yo uwho were at fault.
> and see if you finally corrected yoruself.
>
Except that you did nothing of the sort & there was no need for
me to do anything when I was not the one who asked about the
very subject of the thread.
> clearly, that is beyond you.
>
When I am wrong, I a the first to admit it.
You are just furious that you are in the wrong & not I.
>
> previously, i had interpreted a number of attacks on you as personal. now,
> i
> see there were good reasons for people to treat you like a sleazeball
> since
> that is how you conduct yourself.
>
And again, you lie.
You were definitely the sleazeball here, the way you not only lied about
what I did, but lied about what you did & snipped the proof - over & over -
as well as lied about why you did it.
Susan
fla...@verizon.net
On 17-May-2008, Gwen <bennetw...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > try to do better next time.
> >
> > Pathetically snipping everything that proves you are wrong
> > & that I am right is only making you look even lamer.
>
> Right that he snips out what he doesn't want to repost
Yes, I am sure of this.
>or that you
> simply misunderstood something because of somebody's else's crap.
I misunderstood nothing, & if he didn't know that was the truth,
he wouldn't have snipped what I posted, because it showed that.
If he could actually show that it was *I* who asked about the lone
example of Catholic moral courage rather than being the one who
actually posted about it in the first place - then he could do so,
instead of denying that he was the one to do so.
> It's
> ok - I have made dozens of my own mistakes, but it's nothing to take
> personally.
It is when he is lying about who made what mistake.
Susan
fla...@verizon.net
On 17-May-2008, Gwen <bennetw...@gmail.com> wrote:
I assume you are discussing the portion of the thread between
"Spartakus" & "bam" not being about Spengler...
Susan
fla...@verizon.net
On 17-May-2008, Gwen <bennetw...@gmail.com> wrote:
That's an intersting point that I missed.
Then again, I was more concerned w/honoring her than re-hashing the
failutres of Pius XII.
Susan
bam
"thomas p." <gud...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:482fc720$0$56782$edfa...@dtext02.news.tele.dk...
Look who's talking..
BAM
Ray Fischer
>
>On 16-May-2008, "james g. keegan jr." <jgke...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> fla...@verizon.net wrote in news:mJjXj.1201$dh.114@trnddc05:
>>
>> > Pathetically snipping
>>
>> actually, i was trying to save you more public humiliation.
>
>There can't be "more" when there was none for me to begin with.
>YOU were the one who asked about the lone example of Catholic
>moral courage when the entire thread was about just that.
Then you should also include Catholic crimes such as Hitler's.
--
Ray Fischer
rfis...@sonic.net
NefeshBarYohai
> <flav...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> >On 16-May-2008, "james g. keegan jr." <jgkee...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> flav...@verizon.net wrote innews:mJjXj.1201$dh.114@trnddc05:
>
> >> > Pathetically snipping
>
> >> actually, i was trying to save you more public humiliation.
>
> >There can't be "more" when there was none for me to begin with.
> >YOU were the one who asked about the lone example of Catholic
> >moral courage when the entire thread was about just that.
>
> Then you should also include Catholic crimes such as Hitler's.
>
> --
> Ray Fischer
WE NEED TO KILL MANY, MANY, MANY MUSLIMS THAT ARE IN JIHAD.
The first thing our military needs to determine is if the Muslims
enemies are in Jihad as are most of them. Then we need to kill all
Muslims in Jihad and kill them as fast and as much as possible. The
best thing to do is use nuclear weapons on the Muslims demons in
Jihad. The Muslims are a people that punish their own people and
their enemies by severing the limbs and decapitating the heads of
their own people and their enemies. In WWII it was the Muslims that
were behind all the evil that Hitler propagated. The Muslims are
responsible for the last holocaust and if gone unchecked the Muslims
will generate another holocaust. The Muslim is a wicked devil in
existence and all of the Muslims that are in Jihad pose a direct and
dangerous threat to all normal God fearing human begins. We must kill
the Muslim demons that are in Jihad fast and in large amounts before
they kill more of us.
Spartakus
> > > > Do you have any examples of the Church itself doing anything? Nobody
> > > > denied that individual Catholics helped on their own.
> > > What do you mean, "The Church itself"? A building? An Institution. Neither
> > > speak. Persons speak. Representatives of the Church do things.
> > What the hell is this??? I thought you were a faithful Catholic, bam.
> > And here you are throwing Catholic doctrine under the bus in the name
> > of expedience. I've seen some desperate debating tactics in my day,
> > and this one takes the cake.
Well? This is serious, bam - is the Church only a building or an
institution to you? That would contradict the teaching of the
Church's catechism, wouldn't it? Have you confessed your apostasy?
> > > Before I bury you, how about some Protestant churches or Jewish
> > > organizations that helped the Jews, please.
> >How about something a little more credible than your collection of
> >bullshit testimonials?
> You're not the credibility judge. You've just been buried and all you can
> do is curse.
I find this:
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/pius.html
more credible than your collection of unsourced quotations. Follow
the link and read it. And have an enlightened day.
Ray Fischer
>On May 18, 11:16 am, rfisc...@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
>> <flav...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>> >On 16-May-2008, "james g. keegan jr." <jgkee...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >> flav...@verizon.net wrote innews:mJjXj.1201$dh.114@trnddc05:
>>
>> >> > Pathetically snipping
>>
>> >> actually, i was trying to save you more public humiliation.
>>
>> >There can't be "more" when there was none for me to begin with.
>> >YOU were the one who asked about the lone example of Catholic
>> >moral courage when the entire thread was about just that.
>>
>> Then you should also include Catholic crimes such as Hitler's.
>
Just like that, except that 70 years ago it was about Jews.
--
Ray Fischer
rfis...@sonic.net
thomas p.
Yet another brilliant response.
>
>
bam
>I find this:
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/pius.html
You moron. There's no indictment in that article, though the author did his
worst. Tell me, why was it the Pope's job and no one else's on earth, to
save the Jews?
BAM
bam
>I find this:
>http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/pius.html
He also extensively footnoted, but the earliest reference is 1974 (1), and
the others are from '85 forward. That's an odd way to recount history.
He did have the integrity you lack though, by making this available:
See also Defenses of Pius XII
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/piusdtoc.html .
(this is what happens when you dignify a putz by entertaining his argument)
BAM
james g. keegan jr.
>
> On 16-May-2008, "james g. keegan jr." <jgke...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> fla...@verizon.net wrote in news:mJjXj.1201$dh.114@trnddc05:
>>
>> > Pathetically snipping
>>
>> actually, i was trying to save you more public humiliation.
>
> There can't be "more" when there was none for me to begin with.
denial isn;t healthy dear.
>> you misread and erred
>
> You lie.
now you make another false ande unsupported allegation to cover up your
initial lies.
> . i pointed that out, as did startacus, and perhaps
>> others.
>>
> Another lie.
that was a silly lie, dear, since proof of my statement has been posted,
and reposted.
>> for whatever reason, instead of correcting yourself, you adopted attack
>> mode and made a fool of yourself.
>
> Another lie
now you're hopelessly raving in a manner common for net crazies.
>> i was asked to treat you kindly
>
> You failed.
perhaps. my patience, and tolerance for your misrepresentations was
limited.
> When I am wrong, I a the first to admit it.
you have proven that statement to be false.
>> i see there were good reasons for people to treat you like a sleazeball
>> since that is how you conduct yourself.
>>
> And again, you lie.
releating your lies won;t convince anyone dear. and you've gotten in far
too deeply to extricate yourself.
james g. keegan jr.
>
> On 17-May-2008, Gwen <bennetw...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> or that you
>> simply misunderstood something because of somebody's else's crap.
>
> I misunderstood nothing
i see someone else tried to give you a free ride, as i did. and i see your
dishonest denials in response.
i think usenet has become too much for you in your current emotional state.
fla...@verizon.net
On 19-May-2008, "james g. keegan jr." <jgke...@gmail.com> wrote:
> av...@verizon.net wrote in news:tpQXj.6095$IK5.1399@trnddc04:
>
> >
> > On 17-May-2008, Gwen <bennetw...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> or that you
> >> simply misunderstood something because of somebody's else's crap.
>
> >
> > I misunderstood nothing
>
>
> i see someone else tried to give you a free ride, as i did.
This is also a lie.
> and i see your
>
> dishonest denials in response.
>
& this is another.
> i think usenet has become too much for you in your current emotional
> state.
Thank you for admitting just what your problem is.
Susan
fla...@verizon.net
On 19-May-2008, "james g. keegan jr." <jgke...@gmail.com> wrote:
> fla...@verizon.net wrote in news:CnQXj.6094$IK5.2902@trnddc04:
>
> >
> > On 16-May-2008, "james g. keegan jr." <jgke...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> fla...@verizon.net wrote in news:mJjXj.1201$dh.114@trnddc05:
> >>
> >> > Pathetically snipping
> >>
> >> actually, i was trying to save you more public humiliation.
> >
> > There can't be "more" when there was none for me to begin with.
>
>
> denial isn;t healthy dear.
So you should stop indulging in it.
Seahawk-Fan
> On 19-May-2008, "james g. keegan jr." <jgkee...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > flav...@verizon.net wrote innews:CnQXj.6094$IK5.2902@trnddc04:> > >> flav...@verizon.net wrote innews:mJjXj.1201$dh.114@trnddc05:
>
> > >> > Pathetically snipping
>
> > >> actually, i was trying to save you more public humiliation.
>
> > > There can't be "more" when there was none for me to begin with.
>
> > denial isn;t healthy dear.
>
> So you should stop indulging in it.
Now you see what intelligent people have seen all along with Keegan.
He is nothing more than a kook and a troll.
Just kill file him, it's much better that way.
Gwen
>
> - Show quoted text -
Haven't you been disparaged by Susan, herself, when you posted as
Osprey/aka/Robert Heishman?
fla...@verizon.net
Absolutely - and in this incarnation.
in fact, if he says this about Keegan, I will have to rethink this.
As it is, I am still convinced that Keegan has made a mistake
& is running with it in a very unpleasant fashion.
It's one thing to say that someone has "missed something", it's
another to accue him/her of lying & childishly editing his/her posts
about it.
Susan
james g. keegan jr.
>
> On 19-May-2008, "james g. keegan jr." <jgke...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> av...@verizon.net wrote in news:tpQXj.6095$IK5.1399@trnddc04:
>>
>> >
>> > On 17-May-2008, Gwen <bennetw...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >> or that you
>> >> simply misunderstood something because of somebody's else's crap.
>>
>> >
>> > I misunderstood nothing
>>
>>
>> i see someone else tried to give you a free ride, as i did.
>
> This is also a lie.
it is silly for you to lie when the proof of your lie is still included
above. doing so, as you just did, makes you come across as daft.
>> and i see your dishonest denials in response.
>>
> & this is another.
it is silly for you to lie when the proof of your lie is still included
above. doing so, as you just did, makes you come across as daft.
>> i think usenet has become too much for you in your current emotional
>> state.
>
> Thank you for admitting just what your problem is.
it is silly for you to lie when the proof of your lie is still included
above. doing so, as you just did, makes you come across as daft.
james g. keegan jr.
it is silly for you to lie when the proof of your lie is still included
above. doing so, as you just did, makes you come across as daft.
--
james g. keegan jr.
8bc9-d5c...@56g2000hsm.googlegroups.com:
and now, dear flavia, you have the support of the disgraced prison guard
well known as the abotion newsgroups most prolific liar.
if that doesn't jold you back to sanity, nothing will.
james g. keegan jr.
>
> On 19-May-2008, Gwen <bennetw...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On May 19, 10:58�am, Seahawk-Fan <deseahawk...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> > On May 19, 10:13 am, flav...@verizon.net wrote:
>> >
>> > > > >> actually, i was trying to save you more public humiliation.
>> >
>> > > > > There can't be "more" when there was none for me to begin with.
>> >
>> > > > denial isn;t healthy dear.
>> >
>> > > So you should stop indulging in it.
>> >
>> > Now you see what intelligent people have seen all along with Keegan.
>> > He is nothing more than a kook and a troll.
>> > Just kill file him, it's much better that way.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> Haven't you been disparaged by Susan, herself, when you posted as
>> Osprey/aka/Robert Heishman?
>
> Absolutely - and in this incarnation.
>
> in fact, if he says this about Keegan, I will have to rethink this.
> As it is, I am still convinced that Keegan has made a mistake
you should have reread the thread becore you falsly accused me.
then you should have backed off and apologized when several pointed out
the exact same error on your part that i did.
> It's one thing to say that someone has "missed something", it's
> another to accue him/her of lying
when i accused you of lying, i did so because you lied. you have reposted
proof that you lied several times.
look ahat has happened to you now. heishman, the disgraced parison guard
known as the abortion newsgroups most prolific liar has allied himself
with you.
and in this thread, you're in the appropriate company with him
Gwen
> On 19-May-2008, Gwen <bennetwitho...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 19, 10:58 am, Seahawk-Fan <deseahawk...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > On May 19, 10:13 am, flav...@verizon.net wrote:
>
> > > > On 19-May-2008, "james g. keegan jr." <jgkee...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > flav...@verizon.net wrote innews:CnQXj.6094$IK5.2902@trnddc04:
>
> > > > > > On 16-May-2008, "james g. keegan jr." <jgkee...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > >> flav...@verizon.net wrote innews:mJjXj.1201$dh.114@trnddc05:
>
> > > > > >> > Pathetically snipping
>
> > > > > >> actually, i was trying to save you more public humiliation.
>
> > > > > > There can't be "more" when there was none for me to begin with.
>
> > > > > denial isn;t healthy dear.
>
> > > > So you should stop indulging in it.
>
> > > Now you see what intelligent people have seen all along with Keegan.
> > > He is nothing more than a kook and a troll.
> > > Just kill file him, it's much better that way.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > Haven't you been disparaged by Susan, herself, when you posted as
> > Osprey/aka/Robert Heishman?
>
> Absolutely - and in this incarnation.
Unfortunately, you're giving creedence to an ex-prison guard with the
level of honesty of George W, Bush. This would be considered USENET
suicide considering antyhing that pathological liar says about
anybody.
> in fact, if he says this about Keegan, I will have to rethink this.
I would lose total respect for you. Not because of your negative
interactions with Jim, because people on the same side of things don't
always agree and make mistakes, even on eachother, but because you're
with one of the most disrespected pieces of shit, online and offline.
> As it is, I am still convinced that Keegan has made a mistake
> & is running with it in a very unpleasant fashion.
I don't see it, not because Jim's my firned, because no mistake was
made on his part.
> It's one thing to say that someone has "missed something", it's
> another to accue him/her of lying & childishly editing his/her posts
> about it.
I think he did point out your misunderstanding.
> Susan- Hide quoted text -
Gwen
> Seahawk-Fan <deseahawk...@hotmail.com> wrote in news:f2149539-4f4b-4eda-
> 8bc9-d5c2f0c49...@56g2000hsm.googlegroups.com:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 19, 10:13 am, flav...@verizon.net wrote:
> >> On 19-May-2008, "james g. keegan jr." <jgkee...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> > flav...@verizon.net wrote innews:CnQXj.6094$IK5.2902@trnddc04:
>
> >> > > On 16-May-2008, "james g. keegan jr." <jgkee...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> > >> flav...@verizon.net wrote innews:mJjXj.1201$dh.114@trnddc05:
>
> >> > >> > Pathetically snipping
>
> >> > >> actually, i was trying to save you more public humiliation.
>
> >> > > There can't be "more" when there was none for me to begin with.
>
> >> > denial isn;t healthy dear.
>
> >> So you should stop indulging in it.
>
> > Now you see what intelligent people have seen all along with Keegan.
> > He is nothing more than a kook and a troll.
>
> and now, dear flavia, you have the support of the disgraced prison guard
> well known as the abotion newsgroups most prolific liar.
>
> if that doesn't jold you back to sanity, nothing will.
Heishman's support of anybody has the stability of house of cards
under an blowing hairdryer.
> --
> "You tried to steal the identity of a James G. Keegan Jr. who did in
> fact author a book, and you're trying to convince people that you are
> the same person." -- corrupt prison clerk heishman lying as "Osprey"
> in an effort to cover-up his earlier lie that i was not an author
> <noneedtok...@mail.com>
> in<v4qdndNQW_fFAMXanZ2dnUVZ_sOrn...@comcast.com>- Hide quoted text -
fla...@verizon.net
On 19-May-2008, Gwen <bennetw...@gmail.com> wrote:
Huh? How am I, when I am agreeing with you?
> This would be considered USENET
> suicide considering antyhing that pathological liar says about
> anybody.
>
Which I didn't do.
You said
"Haven't you been disparaged by Susan, herself,
when you posted as Osprey/aka/Robert Heishman?"
& I agreed.
> > in fact, if he says this about Keegan, I will have to rethink this.
>
> I would lose total respect for you.
Huh?
He said Keegan was a troll, & I said that since *he* said this, i would
have to then rehtink what had been going on, that maybe Jim had a point.
> > As it is, I am still convinced that Keegan has made a mistake
> > & is running with it in a very unpleasant fashion.
>
> I don't see it, not because Jim's my firned, because no mistake was
> made on his part.
>
It looks that way from here.
> > It's one thing to say that someone has "missed something", it's
> > another to accue him/her of lying & childishly editing his/her posts
> > about it.
>
> I think he did point out your misunderstanding.
>
No, he said I misunderstood *something*, but he didn't say
what it was & then acted worse & worse, almost as if he
had something to hide.
Susan
fla...@verizon.net
On 19-May-2008, "james g. keegan jr." <jgke...@gmail.com> wrote:
> fla...@verizon.net wrote in news:CziYj.1883$dh.985@trnddc05:
>
> >
> > On 19-May-2008, Gwen <bennetw...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On May 19, 10:58 am, Seahawk-Fan <deseahawk...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> > On May 19, 10:13 am, flav...@verizon.net wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > > >> actually, i was trying to save you more public humiliation.
> >> >
> >> > > > > There can't be "more" when there was none for me to begin with.
> >> >
> >> > > > denial isn;t healthy dear.
> >> >
> >> > > So you should stop indulging in it.
> >> >
> >> > Now you see what intelligent people have seen all along with Keegan.
> >> > He is nothing more than a kook and a troll.
> >> > Just kill file him, it's much better that way.- Hide quoted text -
> >>
> >> Haven't you been disparaged by Susan, herself, when you posted as
> >> Osprey/aka/Robert Heishman?
> >
> > Absolutely - and in this incarnation.
> >
> > in fact, if he says this about Keegan, I will have to rethink this.
> > As it is, I am still convinced that Keegan has made a mistake
>
>
> you should have reread the thread becore you falsly accused me.
>
So should you have.
> then you should have backed off and apologized when several pointed out
> the exact same error on your part that i did.
>
You keep saying this, & it's not true.
> > It's one thing to say that someone has "missed something", it's
> > another to accue him/her of lying
>
> when i accused you of lying, i did so because you lied.
No, you accused me of lying because you were having a tantrum.
In no way did I lie.
> you have reposted
> proof that you lied several times.
>
And this is a lie.
I have done nothing of the sort.
> look ahat has happened to you now. heishman, the disgraced parison guard
> known as the abortion newsgroups most prolific liar has allied himself
> with you.
>
I am sure he wishes he could, but, as I said to Gwen, I
disapagared him in his other guise, & I do so now.
> and in this thread, you're in the appropriate company with him
>
And yet again, you misread what was written.
Susan
fla...@verizon.net
On 19-May-2008, "james g. keegan jr." <jgke...@gmail.com> wrote:
> lav...@verizon.net wrote in news:FVfYj.1865$dh.1575@trnddc05:
>
> >
> > On 19-May-2008, "james g. keegan jr." <jgke...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> av...@verizon.net wrote in news:tpQXj.6095$IK5.1399@trnddc04:
> >>
> >> >
> >> > On 17-May-2008, Gwen <bennetw...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >> or that you
> >> >> simply misunderstood something because of somebody's else's crap.
> >>
> >> >
> >> > I misunderstood nothing
> >>
> >>
> >> i see someone else tried to give you a free ride, as i did.
> >
> > This is also a lie.
>
>
> it is silly for you to lie when the proof of your lie is still included
> above.
Your insistence that this is so is the lie.
There is no proof included anywhere because there is no proof that I lied.
> doing so, as you just did, makes you come across as daft.
Your insistence that this is so is the lie.
There is no proof included anywhere because there is no proof that I lied.
>
> >> and i see your dishonest denials in response.
> >>
> > & this is another.
>
>
> it is silly for you to lie when the proof of your lie is still included
> above.
Your insistence that this is so is the lie.
There is no proof included anywhere because there is no proof that I lied.
> doing so, as you just did, makes you come across as daft.
Your insistence that this is so is the lie.
There is no proof included anywhere because there is no proof that I lied.
>
> >> i think usenet has become too much for you in your current emotional
> >> state.
> >
> > Thank you for admitting just what your problem is.
>
>
> it is silly for you to lie when the proof of your lie is still included
> above.
Your insistence that this is so is the lie.
There is no proof included anywhere because there is no proof that I lied.
doing so, as you just did, makes you come across as daft.
>
Your insistence that this is so is the lie.
There is no proof included anywhere because there is no proof that I lied.
fla...@verizon.net
On 19-May-2008, "james g. keegan jr." <jgke...@gmail.com> wrote:
> fla...@verizon.net wrote in news:VVfYj.1866$dh.1438@trnddc05:
>
> >
> > On 19-May-2008, "james g. keegan jr." <jgke...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> fla...@verizon.net wrote in news:CnQXj.6094$IK5.2902@trnddc04:
> >>
> >> >
> >> > On 16-May-2008, "james g. keegan jr." <jgke...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> fla...@verizon.net wrote in news:mJjXj.1201$dh.114@trnddc05:
> >> >>
> >> >> > Pathetically snipping
> >> >>
> >> >> actually, i was trying to save you more public humiliation.
> >> >
> >> > There can't be "more" when there was none for me to begin with.
> >>
> >>
> >> denial isn't healthy dear.
> >
> > So you should stop indulging in it.
>
>
> it is silly for you to lie when the proof of your lie is still included
> above. doing so, as you just did, makes you come across as daft.
fla...@verizon.net
On 19-May-2008, Gwen <bennetw...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On May 19, 6:52 pm, "james g. keegan jr." <jgkee...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Seahawk-Fan <deseahawk...@hotmail.com> wrote in news:f2149539-4f4b-4eda-
> > 8bc9-d5c2f0c49...@56g2000hsm.googlegroups.com:
> >
> > > Now you see what intelligent people have seen all along with Keegan.
> > > He is nothing more than a kook and a troll.
> >
I see I wasn't clear enough in saying "CRAP"
How's that for "disparaging"?
>
> > and now, dear flavia, you have the support of the disgraced prison guard
> > well known as the abotion newsgroups most prolific liar.
> >
> > if that doesn't jold you back to sanity, nothing will.
>
You first.
>
> Heishman's support of anybody has the stability of house of cards
> under an blowing hairdryer.
>
And yet all he got for his pains was me saying "Gee, if he agrees w/me,
there is actually a chance I'm wrong!"
Susan
Gwen
With what you said, below, under my statement:
> > This would be considered USENET
> > suicide considering antyhing that pathological liar says about
> > anybody.
>
> Which I didn't do.
> You said
>
> "Haven't you been disparaged by Susan, herself,
> when you posted as Osprey/aka/Robert Heishman?"
>
> & I agreed.
Indeed. Of course you have. There have been some occassions in which
the disparaged often run to the defense
of the enemy especially if the said enemy is having a verbal
altercation with another enemy of the disparaged. Osprey needs
validation - and he'd find it, anywehre.
> > > in fact, if he says this about Keegan, I will have to rethink this.
>
> > I would lose total respect for you.
>
> Huh?
> He said Keegan was a troll, & I said that since *he* said this, i would
> have to then rehtink what had been going on, that maybe Jim had a point.
>
Then this followed:
> > > As it is, I am still convinced that Keegan has made a mistake
> > > & is running with it in a very unpleasant fashion.
>
> > I don't see it, not because Jim's my firned, because no mistake was
> > made on his part.
>
> It looks that way from here.
That's fine. There's always a third perception.
> > > It's one thing to say that someone has "missed something", it's
> > > another to accue him/her of lying & childishly editing his/her posts
> > > about it.
>
> > I think he did point out your misunderstanding.
>
> No, he said I misunderstood *something*, but he didn't say
> what it was & then acted worse & worse, almost as if he
> had something to hide.
Jim tells it as it is - in his own way.
> Susan- Hide quoted text -
SeahawkFan
<fla...@verizon.net> wrote in message news:lzrYj.3705$HJ5.3054@trnddc01...
Actually I didn't agree with you, I was simply saying that by now you should
have realized
what most intelligent people have come to realize about Keegan. You're
arguments are childish.
Knock yourself out though, like I said most people realize that Keegan is a
childish and immature
jerk. See below, just a few examples.
From: Muslims Love Salman Rushdie <truthm...@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 01:26:32 -0000
Message-ID: <1187745992.3...@r23g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
"Yet you present zero facts. Shows what an empty-headed loon you are."
From: lastp...@rogers.com
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 05:53:16 -0700
Message-ID: <1188132796.7...@w3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>
"And you are sick, Keegan, very, very sick. See a doctor Monday!"
From: Andre Lieven <andre...@yahoo.ca>
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 18:32:35 -0700
Message-ID: <1188610355.0...@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>
"No proof ever offered ? Self serving cowshit fact free loon claim
fails."
From: "John B. Coarsey, PE" <jcoarsey<nospam>@yahoo.com>
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 08:21:21 -0400
Message-ID: <5mmoi4F...@mid.individual.net>
"Keegan you are an asshole!"
From: "LHA" <nob...@nobody1.com1>
Message-ID: <FmANi.55707$Um6....@newssvr12.news.prodigy.net>
Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2007 00:09:09 GMT
"Will you grow the fuck up!"
From: dshol...@csl36h.csl.ncsu.edu (Doug Holtsinger)
Subject: Keegan obsessed with controlling womens' opinions on
abortion
Message-ID: <1992Oct30.211731.23...@ncsu.edu>
"You really are obsessed with controlling Ms. Bartley's opinions,
aren't you?"
From: "Tom Gamble" <magical_...@yahoo.com>
Subject: Keegan is obsessed with rape!
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 16:11:43 -0500
From: andy beckwith <beckw...@bayou.uh.edu>
Subject: re:the obsessed pordon: My nomination for Keegan to get the
looney maroon award !
Date: 1999/06/13
Message-ID: <3763482F.4...@bayou.uh.edu>#1/1
"This is so whacked out that I felt alt.usenet.kooks should
see it. Way to GO , Keegan ! I am going to ask that you be
at least nominated for a looney maroon award for this!"
From: arnaud_m_fe...@NOSPAMhotmail.com ("Menjy")
Subject: oooh, look! that james .keegan fuckhead whossname's obsessed.
with me.
Date: 1998/12/26
Message-ID: <3692e8ec.50742...@news.alt.net>#1/1
From: TJ Miller jr <here...@spark.org>
Subject: James Keegan Jr.... Obsessed hypocrite.
Date: 1998/09/08
Message-ID:
<A2AAF043972343A4.9143F887E422B6A2.84101310584263AA@library-
proxy.airnews.net>#1/1
From: manc...@starbase.neosoft.com (Dr. Michael Mancini)
Newsgroups: alt.flame
Subject: Re: Why is McClatchie obsessed with Keegan?
"It's the other way around. Keegan is obsessed with McClatchie."
By the way, talk.abortion has been REMOVED from the followups. This
subject has nothing to do with that newsgroup, and Keegan is
violating
USENET policy by crossposting this crap there. Gee whiz...he could
even
lose another account for that. Hummm.....
From: Guy and Karen Enki <Hopelessly.l...@nowhere.special>
Subject: Re: the obsessed pordon
Date: 1999/06/12
Message-ID: <120619990916102669%Hopelessly.l...@nowhere.special>
"Keegan, I am including in communications with my systems admin, David
Schatz to show that I refuse to be intimidated by you.
You are running scared, Keegan. I refuse to listen to you any
further.And, if you are stupid enough to go the legal route, as you
indicated, you very well will end up in the loosing in of a battle
which could loose you your job in R.P.I. permamently!"
Andrew Walcott Beckwith
From: "Philip Lewis" <NotTell...@hotmail.com>
Newsgroups:
alt.abortion,talk.abortion,us.issues.abortion,us.politics.abortion,soc.men,苔lt.feminism
Subject: Re: the question phil lewis is afraid to answer
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 12:23:22 -0000
Lines: 182
Message-ID: <bvtcka$101hb...@ID-59530.news.uni-berlin.de>
"Keegan is a joke - his incompetant challenge
(asking me why I asked an on topic question
of someone who had wandered slightly
off-topic!!) and his apparent failure to
comprehend my response damages his own
credibility not mine. As for the others you
mentioned - I suppose I could spend a lot of
my valuable time archiving in the manner you
suggested but OTH I have bigger fish to fry."
From: Vandar <vand...@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <fUk0j.21033$B25....@news01.roc.ny>
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 18:48:43 GMT
"He has a deserved reputation as a loser among the usenet community. You
need to pull your head out of his ass."
From: 'Menjy' <mbul...@wanadoo.fr>
Newsgroups:
Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2007
Message-ID: <9626l31jkn80ji8pr...@4ax.com>
"What the hell are you on about, you blithering imbecile?
By the way, when's the last time anyone fell for one of your silly little
test
traps? Last decade? The one before?"
From: Rid Skewrr <cal...@creek.council>
Message-ID: <8vgol3pdg5vo7e81c...@4ax.com>
Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2007 19:49:49 GMT
"There was nothing to prosecute, she simply made a mistake and ended up
at the wrong poling place, you intolerant ASSHOLE!"
From: Vinegar Hill <hic...@hollow.farm>
Message-ID: <410pl3h65pf3oe5f5...@4ax.com>
Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2007 23:55:09 GMT
"You're also a shitbag."
From: Ken Chaddock <chad...@hfx.eastlink.ca>
Message-ID: <sOzbj.32528$UZ4.1425@edtnps89>
Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 20:46:16 GMT
"Ah yes, james' "special" debating skills, delete all of the preceding
thread so that others cannot see what a lying little weasel he is, then
make an unsupported (and generally insupportable) claim based solely
upon his own words..."
"Clue to james, don't ever try your hand at real life debating, you will
end up as a laughing stock...I mean even more of a laughing stock that
you are on usnet...and the moderator will throw you out of the room..."
...Ken
From: Steven Douglas <dste...@flashmail.com>
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2008 15:04:54 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID:
<113b5b00-98c9-4d0d...@d4g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
"If you stop acting like a 12-year-old, your posts might appear to have
been written by an adult rather than a child."
From: "R. Steve Walz" <rste...@armory.com>
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 07:35:41 -0800
Message-ID: <47DFE1...@armory.com>
No, you ignorant little shitwad, I was blaming you for YOURS!
From: "Phil" <fa...@mindspring.com>
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2008 08:40:42 -0500
Message-ID: <13ucner...@corp.supernews.com>
You seem to have a real problem with logic.
SeahawkFan
<fla...@verizon.net> wrote in message news:AwrYj.3702$HJ5.1603@trnddc01...
One thing I noticed most of you moron's have in common. Spelling problems.
It's "disparaged", and you wish.
DanielSan
You probably mean "morons". You don't add an apostrophe when making a
word plural.
--
****************************************************
* DanielSan -- alt.atheism #2226 *
*--------------------------------------------------*
* "I was against gay marriage until I realized *
* that I didn't have to have one." *
* --James Carville *
****************************************************
Seahawk-Fan
> SeahawkFan wrote:
>
> > <flav...@verizon.net> wrote in messagenews:AwrYj.3702$HJ5.1603@trnddc01...> >>> flav...@verizon.net wrote innews:CziYj.1883$dh.985@trnddc05:
Thank you, I stand corrected. It's a common error.
DanielSan
*Whoosh!*
Right over your head.