Re: Israel loves life; The whole world benefits.
jos boersema
> After listing four technological breakthroughs in the fields of
> medicine and water usage, Barry Rubin asks the following question:
>
> Now if you want international attention and sympathy you can carry
> out terrorist attacks or you can save lives through humanitarian
> advances. Which should garner the most support?
>
> What is the world's answer tothat?
The world's answer is: astonishment at the hypocrasy of Israel, and
flabberghastingly pointing to what Israel has done in its own territory.
I note some other innovations made by in zionist state:
- the Uzi
- Corner shot.
You know what those are ? Wasn't Uzi the word for 'faith in heaven' ?
Uzi now means a machine gun. Another 'innovation' made by Israel.
What is corner shot ? It is a platform to mount a gun on, and you can
look along the barrel on a camera. This way you can sneak the gun
past a corner and at an angle. You can point the gun around the corner,
while viewing along the barrel on the camera, and then shoot, not
exposing yourselve.
Nice work Israel, the world is very happy with that. Not.
The world is horrified at what you are doing in the holy land, horrified
and flabbergasted, shocked.
My guess is the shock is mostly from the hypocracy, because after all
all nations tend to wage wars and so on. It is the hypocracy that makes
it so shocking, that Israel has claimed to want peace day in day out
for millenia, and now she does this. And it isn't even resisted by the
jewish people ! In the beginning all jews where against zionism. Then
it changed and now nearly all are in favor. Only a handfull remain in
opposition, and they receive a lot of flack for that.
So, when the world sees that some Rabbi is attempting to paint ISrael
in this 'uniquely righteous light,' the answer is being flabberghasted
at the hypocracy, that's your answer. You asked, you got the answer.
There are a few who agree with you, with the violence in the zionist
state, and I'm not saying that to hurt you but simply noting the fact.
It's the white supremasists and that type, because they are very
nationalistic and say "we don't want the jews here, let them go to
their own land and establish a nation like we want to establish for
ourselves here." Those people may grin sardonically at hearing what
that Rabbi said, and think to themselves ''watch how beautifully that
evil of Israel is coming out, we recognize this, that is us, this is
really shaping up to be like we want it to be.''
Can you handle this, or is there still somewhere deep inside that does
not want to be this terrorist nation, but really want peace and not
the pretence of it.
You asked for the answer, now don't complaign you got one. It is the
hypocracy that makes it so shocking for the world, imho. Not really
what you do, that's just more familiar attrocities by the powers that
be. Shocking as they may be, you can compare Gaza with Fallujah, etc.
It is shocking levels of state terrorism and crime, but that's nothing
new. The loss of righteousness in the Rabbinical quarter, religious
quarter, by the jews, that is saddening. That wild eyed blind nationalism.
Not able anymore to look at it from the other side, to stand above the
parties and work for peace - not a peace process that is all lies, but
real peace & justice.
Corner shot and Uzi, you know for what roles they are particularly well
suited ? Don't know ? Urban combat. No I don't mean that type, military
oppression of the people by a ruthless out of control military.
Israel was a lot better when she busied herself with reading Tefilin.
Wasn't she ? Forget those water innovations we can do without for now,
it's peace we need, Justice.
Beware: you will reap what you are sowing. Beware of what the Neviim
warned, everything is on track to make that come true. IMHO the
opportunity is already lost to change, you are too late IMHO. The sword
is swinging, it's direction is toward your necks. The Tanach says:
two third will die, that's on a world scale 4 billion people now.
All because you have forsaken the Torah, and because the Gentiles
couldn't come to the Torah either (or their own Torah). The criminal
therefore rule, and all suffer, jew and gentile, the same.
Stop pounding your chest, in every nation countless innovations are
being done, for good and for evil. It's not that we need.
--
http://www.socialism.nl/post/002/083-Palestinian-Israel.flag.html
mirjam
Before you tell us how to live
> Stop pounding your chest, in every nation countless innovations are
> being done, for good and for evil. It's not that we need.
> --http://www.socialism.nl/post/002/083-Palestinian-Israel.flag.html
Better check out and see what is happening in your own country
Pension funds and cluster-bomb makersby Marina Brouwer*
http://static.rnw.nl/migratie/www.radionetherlands.nl/currentaffairs/ned070319a-mc-redirected
19-03-2007
Dutch pension funds make no secret of their sizable investments in the
arms industry. More specifically, in companies that manufacture
controversial arms such as cluster bombs and land mines. The large
number of innocent victims caused by these explosives has made them
controversial around the globe. But for investment funds this is no
reason not to do business with these companies.
"Cluster bombs are of course reprehensible weapons, but we have no
internal guidelines banning investment in these weapons," says
Roderick Munsters, director of investments at one of the Netherlands'
largest pension funds, the ABP. Just like a number of other major
pension funds, ABP has no scruples when it comes to the selection of
profitable investments.
Weapons, pollution, child labour
A recent documentary broadcast on public television showed that Dutch
.........
the rest you can read yourself and Be ashamed for your country
and stop preaching to others,,,,
mirjam
jos boersema
Hi Mirjam.
>> Stop pounding your chest, in every nation countless innovations are
>> being done, for good and for evil. It's not that we need.
>> --http://www.socialism.nl/post/002/083-Palestinian-Israel.flag.html
>
> Better check out and see what is happening in your own country
Oh, I know it's all going to pieces here :(.
We lost our sovereignty to the EU :-((.
I do what I can to change that around, have my own political party
for it but ... nothing. Not a single Dutchman/woman to do make it
happen.
> Pension funds and cluster-bomb makersby Marina Brouwer*
> http://static.rnw.nl/migratie/www.radionetherlands.nl/currentaffairs/ned070319a-mc-redirected
> 19-03-2007
>
> Dutch pension funds make no secret of their sizable investments in the
> arms industry. More specifically, in companies that manufacture
> controversial arms such as cluster bombs and land mines. The large
> number of innocent victims caused by these explosives has made them
> controversial around the globe. But for investment funds this is no
> reason not to do business with these companies.
>
> "Cluster bombs are of course reprehensible weapons, but we have no
> internal guidelines banning investment in these weapons," says
> Roderick Munsters, director of investments at one of the Netherlands'
> largest pension funds, the ABP. Just like a number of other major
> pension funds, ABP has no scruples when it comes to the selection of
> profitable investments.
>
> Weapons, pollution, child labour
> A recent documentary broadcast on public television showed that Dutch
> .........
> the rest you can read yourself and Be ashamed for your country
> and stop preaching to others,,,,
> mirjam
Why did you get the idea I wasn't saddened by my own country ?
Thanks for pointing out these mistakes of the Dutch Government
(which I oppose in any way I can). I hope they will redress these
points promptely.
My idea about pensions (it's all on my site) is to have them
nationalized, the essence of the pension system would be a good
basic income, and nobody needs to 'save' for that through life.
Sure people can put some on a bank-account, but that's all.
There would be no more pension funds like that.
Even if they did exist, they would not be allowed to invest.
Why do they invest in these bombs ? Because it is profitable.
That is exactly what is wrong with capitalism. We need to bring
capital under the public control. That is what my site proves
is needed, that is also - just happens to be - THE TORAH OF
ISRAEL, that is what I'm trying to achieve day in and day out
(quite litterally).
I hope you will erect a sister DAVID party for Israel, and some
others some more, and then we can make all that happen accross
both our countries, and other country their people will see it
and maybe agree and do it in their nations.
Thanks for your interest in Holland. I do appreciate it and it
is HORRIBLE AND DISGUSTING what is happening. I hope someone
is listening to what you said, but I fear - as usual - the people
will be ignored and the people in control will carry on as they
want. Which will bring nothing good.
--
jos boersema
Server: irc.freenode.net
Channel: #david-sys
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>meeting<
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Place ... and time ... let's say that an oportune time to find each
other on the channel is every
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* | Wednesday on 18:00-19:00 UTC globally | *
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That is about in 1 hour, we can talk about things and how to set up
this party in Israel. I have free webspace and we can get rigth to
it. When is the next elections in Israel ? Maybe if we are fast we
can take over the Knesset immediately, wouldn't that be something.
Maybe Israel is more responsive then the Dutch, I hope so.
jos boersema
> On Nov 25, 8:46�pm, jos boersema <jo...@xs4all.nl> wrote:
>> On 2009-11-25, Fiona Abrahami <fiona@NO_SPAM.intxtdoc.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>> "lee" <schotn...@gmail.com> wrote
>>>> Why shouldn't Israel use the corner shot to minimise casualties
>>>> amongst it conscript army? to not do so would be negligent if not
>>>> criminal, as for Uzi's Israel made its own weapon designs when the
>>>> world severely restricted arms sales to us, while Britain amongst
>>>> others was happy to supply the other side with weapons.
>>>> See herehttp://world.guns.ru/smg/smg00-e.htmfor who makes the most
>>>> machine guns UZI is just an identifiable brand like kalashnikov or AK.
>>>> Israel defends itself in the main like any other country would,
>>>> oh wait in ww2 Holland surrendered to the Germans in about 4 days,
>>>> roughly about the time it takes to drive a tank lengthways across the
>>>> country, with stops for afternoon tea
>>
>> lol, yeah that's probably true.
>> I think there was an attempt to withdraw behind a submerged area.
>> But that was medeaval tactics I guess, it did not work.
>>
>>> And do you know why the Netherlands surrendered so quickly, even though as
>>> any Dutchman will tell you they hate the Germans?
>>
>> I like the Germans a lot. They are neat and well ordered, and their
>> public transportation is great, their toilets a lot cleaner then the
>> Dutch toilets; Germans are ahead with biological recycling and so on.
>> Even on German stations you can put your garbage in 4 different
>> containers ! Germany is a pretty good nation; not that I agree with
>> their economic system, but it's not one giant chaos there for sure.
>> Things are well maintained, Deutche grundlichkeit, wiedersehen !
>>
>>> The Dutch surrendered because the Germans threatened to level
>>> Amsterdam, which they could have done is just a few days carpet
>>> bombing. As much as I love Amsterdam (I lived there for three years),
>>> it pains me greatly to know that those lovely building and canals were
>>> effectively paid for with Jewish blood, the Jews of the Netherlands and
>>> all those from Germany and elsewhere who had taken refuge there were
>>> sacrificed so that Amsterdam would look nice for future generations.
>>
>> Isn't that just a tad bit overreacting ?
>>
>> Someone said Anne Frank was killed, betrayed by a Dutchman. �Then
>> again, who attempted to hide Anne Frank and family ? �What's the only
>> nation in the entire world who had a strike to protest - a strike
>> during Nazi occupation mind you ! - ... a strike to protest against
>> what was done against our Jewish brothers and sisters ? Holland. It is
>> a deadly serious attempt to strike against the Nazis during occupation,
>> only the Dutch dared it, and we did so on your behalf.
>>
>> And I say we should do that again and next time 5 times bigger.
>
> The Danes, perhaps & yes thanks for the strike. I think my foreman
> in Amsterdam told me about one famous piece of graffiti "keep your
> filthy hands off our filthy jews" obviously in Dutch & I assume
> meant humorously. You probably would do it again 5 times larger,
> but you don't need to. & the Germans aren't the same Germans either.
True, it's all different now.
> However what are you doing about Geert Wilders?
I am trying to defeat Wilders politically. Wilders is imho the same
phenomena as the nazis: cheap populism, a pretence of being left wing
and caring for labor when in fact Wilders is a split from the VVD
which is the main party for the top bourgeoisie & capital, far right.
VVD is very "if you are a cleaner and work yourselve to near death
for next to nothing, then that's no problem it is apparently what you
are worth in the market." VVD also supports all wars and basically
everything that is bad. A devious people class of people: big finance,
big industry, all their round-table stuff, building the EU empire,
and managing what the people think. That's the party Wilders was in
for 7 years in parliament. Then this PVV came out of the VVD. The
financiers of PVV appear to be shadowy groups in the USA, probably
connected with secret services and finance mafia (it was reported
that those groups who pretend to promote democracy in the world, are
in fact fronts to look out for american interests by meddling in other
nations their politics.)
The very people that cause the problems in the world with finance
and these crises. The finance controlled media is agressively pushing
for Wilders to become big (mostly by talking about little else but
that absurdly incompetent nothing party.) They obviously want to whip
up a mass movement like the nazis, who also started out with left
wing populist rethoric, nationalism and xenophobia, during a time
of financial catastrophe.
So I think this is all strategicaly being engineerd and put before
the flock. What they are obviously afraid off is a progressive,
honorable humanitarian and competent political alternative gaining
strength through the crises the capitalists cause.
I note this is the 3rd time in a row that the top bourgeoisie in
Holland is attempting to build a nazi-like movement in Holland.
First we had P.Fortuyn, then we had R.Verdonk, and now we have
G.Wilders. They position G.Wilders as if he is 'anti-elite,' while
in fact he is working for the highest top of the 'elites.'
I am trying to get people to agree with me to do my political program:
http://www.socialism.nl That also has/is a political party. So I
want to join with other members in that party and create even more
parties on the same template. Then with say 5 parties we enter the
ballot race (maybe we need to combine for the purpose of voting).
Then I want of course to win those elections, and then spread the
system as I think we should do it in all nations to other peoples,
using parliament as a spring board for attention. We can't remove
capitalism just in Holland, it doesn't work like that because we
risk a military attack (see Yugoslavia). An economic and finance
war will be inevitable, possibly augmented with terrorism from the
USA (USA actually blowing up key elements in Holland for the purpose
of disruption, of course using whatever patsies they have lined up).
Although there is a chance to do a small experiment with the new system,
eventually the evil governments of other nations need to be defeated
by their own populations.
If it becomes necessary - because we are facing repression for example,
no democracy anymore - then I want to do a real revolution. The people
are to combine and elect representatives, we need to talk to the police
and military to come to our side, and then we erect a new state, thus
solving the issue.
The program of my parties is supposed to be (easily) enough to solve
all the problems with the economic crisis, the dichotomy rich/poor,
the suffering of people at the hands of the arrogant business bosses,
etc. We will get out of the EU, and control immigration through
political will, protect our labor (markets) against cheap foreign labor.
It is basically the solution to the problems that Wilders is designed
to pull the people away from. Thus if I'm succeeding, Wilders is going
to implode hopefully. Also I'll always be showing where Wilders is
wrong and a great threat to the people of Holland.
So far I have 0 success with this. People do not appear rational enough
to be able to comprehend the most obvious problems about economics.
Therefore this is all stalled now, and Wilders and like can go on.
> Because I don't know
> what we in the UK are going to do about the BNP
You should try to understand what a proper economy is about.
Don't you understand ? You are fighting against the people that come
to power because the prohibition on rent seeking in the Torah on loans
is broken. Only bad people will invest in companies where labor is
squeezed most. But they become the rich people that way. And they will
put bad people in power over labor, who are also willing to squeeze
other people. And then not soon after these people realize they need
to control the public at large, politics, stimulate hate where they
can, because it is 'social goals' that are the essential threat to
the profitability of their operations. "Better wages for abused
cleaners" ? That would be a direct attack on the profit of investors.
Thus the whole 'manage what the people think and do' comes about.
You are being threatened by what your hand has made.
It looks like many again could die, because the jews are the perfect
scapegoat: not only ethnic minority, also a religious minority, a
religious minority directly contradicting the main edicts of the
ruling religion, and being a strategic threat to the capitalist bosses
(who rule the whole world) for being more social (or trying to be),
and on top of that for walking around with that Torah that prohibits
everything they are, the very source of their wealth and power (rent
seeking).
Please set up DAVID sister parties, I have free webspace, maybe we
can turn the UK around, in the interest of the English people, and
the world.
--
http://www.socialism.nl
jos boersema
> On Thu, 26 Nov 2009 15:53:34 +0000 (UTC), lee <scho...@gmail.com>
>>On Nov 26, 11:01�am, mos...@mm.huji.ac.il wrote:
>>>lee <schotn...@gmail.com> writes:
>>>> jos boersema <jo...@xs4all.nl> wrote:
>>>>> mos...@mm.huji.ac.il <mos...@mm.huji.ac.il> wrote:
>>>>>> After listing four technological breakthroughs in the fields of
>>>>>> medicine and water usage, Barry Rubin asks the following question:
>>>>>> Now if you want international attention and sympathy you can carry
>>>>>> out terrorist attacks or you can save lives through humanitarian
>>>>>> advances. Which should garner the most support?
>>>>> > What is the world's answer tothat?
>>>
>>>
>>>> Why shouldn't Israel use the corner shot to minimise casualties
>>>> amongst it conscript army? to not do so would be negligent if not
>>>> criminal, as for Uzi's Israel made its own weapon designs when the
>>>> world severely restricted arms sales to us, while Britain amongst
>>>> others was happy to supply the other side with weapons.
>>>> See herehttp://world.guns.ru/smg/smg00-e.htmfor who makes the most
>>>> machine guns UZI is just an identifiable brand like kalashnikov or AK.
>>>> Israel defends itself in the main like any other country would,
>>>> oh wait in ww2 Holland surrendered to the Germans in about 4 days,
>>>> roughly about the time it takes to drive a tank lengthways across the
>>>> country, with stops for afternoon tea
>>>
>>> every line of his screed?
>>
>>Moshe some people seem to complain when I snip to much some people
>>when I don't snip, I'm starting to feel feel like a nervous rabbi
>>performing his first bris.
>>I would take issue with calling Jos an anti semite though
>>He clearly is proud of what he says was a Dutch defence of jews in ww2
>>whether or not his info on this is strictly accurate, I'm not
>>entirely sure myself, perhaps Evertjan or Mirjam knows a more.
>>He is critical of Israel, but imho that doesnt necessarily make him an
>>anti semite
>
> Merely being critical doesn't necessarily, but it depends on how it is
> done.
>
>>He does quote the Torah, I'm not sure how accurately, or how accurate
>>his interpretation are. But say he is misquoting, does that make him
>>an anti semite?
>
> It depends on how it is done, how it is phrased, and other details.
>
>>He berates us for not following what he sees as commandments in the
>>Torah, if that makes him an anti-semite does that make some of the
>>prophets, anti semites or self hating jews?
>
> It's not merely berating that would make someone an antisemite but how
> it is done. This guy is no prophet.
Maybe I'm not a prophet (who am I to know exactly what will happen,
all I can do is use science and logic to predict it; and that prediction
says it won't be good for jews unless you come back to the Torah and
quit heter iska and prozbul), but i'm still the present day 'moshiach'
though. Always was & always will be (in this life that is), sorry if you
don't like it, but that doesn't change anything. Why don't you, instead
of making false claims, follow the Torah, check the signs ? It should
be relatively trivial to arrive at a good level of certainty here.
Although I would very much more like you all to just understand
capitalism critically, and see with logic why the Torah is right.
> Note that he called it "zionist state". I have never heard that
> phrase used except by proud Zionists discussing the founding of Israel
> or maybe at some Zionist celebration of Israel, or by antisemites.
> He's not in the first group, so it seems likely he's in the second.
This is not the kind of logical precision I'm looking for ;). lol
> Note that he seems to think it's bad for Israel to have Uzis, but he
> doesn't answere me when I ask how many Jews he would be willing to see
> die if Israel didn't have weapons to defend itself with.
>
> When a person criticizes Israel without taking into account how many
> Jews would die if the person's recommendations were followed, of if he
> takes it into account and doesn't care, that's a pretty good sign he
> is very stupid or an antisemite. (or both)
Okay, this is what I wanted to reply to: I don't want even one jew,
or even one Muslem, to die. Do you even know what my recommendations
are ? Simply to lay down the arms and continue as before ? Absolutely
not. That indeed would likely kill a lot of jews; because if you don't
take away the injustice, the reason why the terrorists attack, don't
remove the breaking of essential economic laws (which breaking breeds
corruption!), that may indeed kill a lot more jews (although even that
is not certain.) My plan is extremely extensive of course, thousands
of pages of text. It would entail a revolution, either through
parliament & reform, or combining in the street and setting up a
really democratic state. This would be done in the entire area,
including all the arab areas and cities. There would be no looking to
who is a jew and who is a muslem. The corrupt authorities on both
sides, who both commit attrocities so it seems, they are both branded
as the problem. The whole of the people, or both peoples if you want,
are the solution (can be the solution). This is to yield a state
build from groups of people, 50 persons each choosing one
representative. Well ... i'm this days moshiach at least, so I guess
you could expect something out of the ordinary ? Anyway: if that works,
then we're ok. Then we're going to implement a version of
anti-for-profit-investment law, or indeed we can do the exact Torah law,
or both, whatever you want. We're also going to do either the Torah
land distribution system, or a new one I made up (see my site).
If then at some point the muslems/arabs say "we want out, we want
to be our own nation," then this can be achieved by them by following
the Constitutional procedure for that (which takes 10 years). The
reverse is also possible: if the jews say they want out, they can do
the same. This way you can also, as the vast majority of a nation,
eject a smaller part, or as a minority gain independence (see proposed
Constitution).
This is all probably going to be noted by other nations, it may end up
a very save and happy nation. Then the gentiles might inspect what we've
done, see it is right, and do it for themselves also. That is the plan.
Even made you a new flag, how's that !
http://www.socialism.nl/post/002/083-Palestinian-Israel.flag.html
http://www.socialism.nl/~joshb/sheet3.txt <-- The exact way in which
to do that revolution, that rising up of the people.
http://www.socialism.nl/party/nl/david-we <-- How to take over the
Kneset. Yes I really do mean that, we will own that Knesset.
This is the preferred way, providing the voting system works.
Why doesn't anyone even bother to verify the signs whether or not I'm
moshiach, it's just handwaving and inuendo now. Sure you can always
doubt, even if all the signs do match (sufficiently), sure, until after
the redemption happened at least - at which point it's no longer even
useful to find out because it would already have been done. If you
really wait for moshiach, then verify the signs, maybe we can use that
Tanach system to speed things up a lot. That may cause the bad people
who rule the world to be cut short in their plans. That may save many
lives, jew and gentile.
> Why the moderators let him post, but complain when a pleasant post is
> off topic, I do not understand.
Some of my posts are moderated out, sometimes cutting out the debate in
weird ways (then I'll post it to SCJ.) To be honest I don't like
moderated usenet, I just like to say whatever I want to say and not let
it be for someone else to decide. This post for example, I'm quite
unsure whether it will be poted. I give it a 65% chance that it will be
posted though. The talk of me being moshiach may not be to the
moderators taste. But we'll see, I'm glad I'm a little less moderated
now at times it seems.
Even in usenet, the jews are being attacked (because why else would you
run and hide in a moderated group?), even on Usenet the Torah word comes
true.
Do you realize we can have a complete revolution, or redemption if you
prefer, of Israel within weeks ? The mass media reaches in all homes,
say it takes you 10 days to come to agree to what's on my site and that
i'm moshiach "probably." We could then decide not to wait for the next
elections but just do the revolution - individual people and streets
could simply start and it could blow up enormously, and become a
snowball effect in other streets and towns. There could be a new Jewish
nation within 20 days, starting from the moment this post is posted.
That should answer your question: I don't want any jew or muslem to die.
Why are you all so afraid to come check "the signs of moshiach" on me ?
You didn't believe really that a moshiach would come I guess, but it
happens anyway. The problems in the world, they really can be solved.
It's just that nobody really tries, or bothers to work up the understanding
needed. We need a proper economy, we need a proper state democracy. It
isn't that difficult really, it really isn't. A lot less special/weird
then you might think. Just basically doing your homework on economics,
using the lessons of history. If you want it you can do it.
--
http://www.socialism.nl
(Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2009 07:44:09 +0100) (Comp running 2-4 min behind.)